[00:14:14] <Ruby>	but ihave a problem with my wiki i just installed. i just wonder how i set the logo that is there after the install to the one that i want to use ? sorry im a little new! :P
[00:55:31] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) <acronym> and <abbr> should be posible HTML-tags - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11652 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (rene.kijewski)
[01:13:00] <Majorly>	is it not possible to add attachments through Special:Emailuser?
[01:17:42] <AzaTht>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=10990734
[01:18:23] <AzaTht>	Werdna: alive?
[01:18:36] <AzaTht>	what's wrong with that edit?
[01:19:06] <AzaTht>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=10990734
[01:19:27] <AzaTht>	perhaps it should the the tech channel
[01:21:25] <Majorly>	AzaTht: where did you come across that?
[01:21:46] <AzaTht>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Oddness
[01:22:16] <AzaTht>	seems that that particular edit has gotten a strange time
[01:26:37] <CIA-6>	03aaron * r26706 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ConfirmAccount_body.php: *Pass $wpShowRejects
[01:42:39] <Ruby>	Warning, Cannot modify heaer information, headers already sent by public_html/includes/DefaultSettings.php:1) in /home/rizzzler/public_html/includes/WebResponse.php on line 10
[01:42:43] <Ruby>	Why do i recive this error ?
[01:43:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) HTML IDs for headings can be the same as existing IDs - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7356  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[01:45:16] <YGingras>	Is there anything done to automatically detect spam?
[02:37:23] <MZMcBride>	YGingras: CAPTCHAs try to prevent spam
[02:37:33] <MZMcBride>	and there are bots that can detect it in some cases
[02:38:17] <YGingras>	MZMcBride: when does the captcha kicks in?  Annon user add links or something like that?  
[02:38:27] <MZMcBride>	depends how you set it up
[02:39:08] <MZMcBride>	more info: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit
[02:39:24] <MZMcBride>	it has options for addurl, createlogin, badlogin, etc.
[02:39:35] <YGingras>	MZMcBride: thanks a lot
[02:39:48] <MZMcBride>	no problem
[02:40:03] <MZMcBride>	by the way: recaptcha is much easier than setting up on your own
[02:40:28] <MZMcBride>	it uses the same ConfirmEdit.php underneath, but doesn't require generating / loading image files
[02:40:50] <MZMcBride>	more info: http://recaptcha.net/plugins/mediawiki/
[02:41:07] <YGingras>	excellent!
[02:41:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Anonymous users should have a similar interface to logged in users - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11651  +comment (10cbrown1023)
[03:24:15] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) remove stale snapshot directory - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11653 trivial; lowest; Wikimedia: Downloads; (jidanni)
[04:03:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Single login on all wikimedia projects - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57  (10en.ABCD)
[04:19:04] <John__>	How can I integrate this: http://www.cyberdummy.co.uk/test/username-ajax.php ...instead of searching the username, id' like to be able to search the wiki page/namespace.
[04:19:18] <John__>	i'd like to put that and its search results in an iframe or something.
[04:19:19] <John__>	:)
[05:06:08] <John__>	anyone know whether http://ctl.mc.maricopa.edu/wiki/index.php/CTLpedia_Documentation this is updated and will work with 1.11 ?
[05:11:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) remove stale snapshot directory - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11653  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[05:26:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) remove stale snapshot directory - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11653  (10jidanni)
[06:01:09] <marchelly>	re
[06:32:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) one program still writes into the filesystem of a running wiki - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11654 normal; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (jidanni)
[07:15:42] <Scourge`>	Does anyone know if there is anyway you can ban people from mediawiki by banning a specific client?
[07:18:32] <Werdna>	as in, a specific browser?
[07:18:37] <Scourge`>	Yes
[07:19:38] <Scourge`>	Like finding the user's User-AgentID and then if it matches a blacklist or something it gets banned.
[07:20:08] <Werdna>	I don't think there's a such thing as a 'User-AgentID'
[07:20:28] <Scourge`>	or the browser id
[07:20:32] <flyingparchment>	i think he just means user-agent
[07:20:34] <Scourge`>	http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/browser_ids.htm <-- Something along those lines
[07:21:00] <Werdna>	flyingparchment: he could have been talking about a unique ID assigned to each browser. I wasn't sure.
[07:21:13] <Scourge`>	Sorry.
[07:21:33] <flyingparchment>	Werdna: well, that _is_ what a user-agent is... :)
[07:21:36] <Scourge`>	Does the browser have a static unique ID?
[07:21:57] <Werdna>	flyingparchment: as in, for each installation of the browser.
[07:22:10] <Werdna>	Scourge`: np. :), I blame the website
[07:22:32] <Scourge`>	Do you think the idea would be possible?
[07:23:45] <Werdna>	Scourge`: of course, but why do you want to ban a specific browser?
[07:24:42] <Scourge`>	We have a problem on a wiki at the moment where people are circumventing bans placed on them by using proxy programs, I was thinking if the proxy program left one of those user-agent things that you could just ban that (which seems unlikely)
[07:25:27] <Werdna>	ah. No, I don't think it changes the user-agent, unless you're talking about those crappy "insert a URL, crank the handle, and it gives you the page"
[07:26:40] <Scourge`>	No, I think the user is question is using a program called "MultiProxy"
[07:37:22] <crem_>	How can I migrate a wiki to another computer (considering that I have only HDD images of previous installation). I've managed to make an sql dump, but after uploading the dump into the new database I see an error "page_restrictions table doesn't exist". (and it doesn't exist in the database indeed). Both source and destination wiki has version 1.10,
[07:37:49] <YGingras>	how often should you ban a netblock vs banning a single ip?
[07:37:50] <crem_>	but minor part of the version can differ... Where can I get the version number from?
[07:38:10] <crem_>	I install mediawiki as a debian package.
[07:39:20] <soroush83>	crem_, use mwdumper
[07:39:58] <crem_>	soroush83, does it need apache to be running?
[07:40:18] <Werdna>	YGingras: ban ranges when you need to, ban IPs when you need to.
[07:40:21] <soroush83>	crem_wmdumper needs mysql and java
[07:40:33] <crem_>	alrite, thanks a lot.
[07:40:46] <soroush83>	crem_after runnig it to import your dumps
[07:41:28] <soroush83>	you should use maintanace scripts to make wiki tables
[07:42:01] <YGingras>	Werdna: but how do you know that a range is hopeless and should be banned?
[07:42:40] <soroush83>	file / maintainance/rebuildall.php does everything
[07:43:45] <crem_>	Do I need to run it from the command line or entering some url in browser?
[07:44:27] <soroush83>	crem_commandline
[07:44:58] <soroush83>	crem_, it usually takes time to do everything depending on the size of wiki
[07:45:38] <soroush83>	if your wiki is on a host do it at home and then export database tables and ...import to your host
[07:47:21] <crem_>	My wiki is on my home computer. :)
[07:47:32] <Werdna>	YGingras: try a single-IP block first, then see if people keep vandalising
[07:49:01] <YGingras>	Werdna: ok, I'll try that
[07:53:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) change website direction from LTR to RTL - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11655 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (mahanghani)
[07:55:36] *amidaniel 	wonders what language "gilish" is ... looks
[08:02:11] <crem_>	How can I pass a mysql root password to rebuildall.php? And why do I need to pass one, if the database is already created and `wikiuser` has all needed access?
[08:02:50] <soroush83>	crem_, change adminsettings.php
[08:03:07] <soroush83>	AdminSettings.php 
[08:06:26] <crem_>	alrite.. By the way all I need is to get the latest versions of few articles from the wiki. Maybe there is an easier way to retrieve them just from the database?
[08:08:30] <soroush83>	crem_, I once did such thing by bot
[08:13:59] <crem_>	I wonder how many percents of wikis have `wikipass` as a password for wikiuser. :)
[08:15:08] <arvernes>	Looking at wikipedia or other wiki, I see when looking at an image, there are info about the description, but also about the licensing. Is there a way to add such info (licensing) do my wiki ?
[08:15:25] <arvernes>	not "do", but "to" ....
[08:16:16] <jamie_hari|away>	You want to add licensing to your images?
[08:16:51] <arvernes>	look at that link. There is a "licensing" chapter. 
[08:16:52] <arvernes>	http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ktm-525-exc-racing-2007.jpg
[08:16:57] <jamie_hari>	That is done in a couple of ways, first with MediaWiki:Licenses, to create the dropdown on your upload page
[08:17:54] <jamie_hari>	Those 'licenses' are just templates with auto-categorization
[08:19:14] <jamie_hari>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Licenses for example
[08:19:47] <arvernes>	ok, I'm gonna try to find out how to do that. Thank you.
[08:19:51] <amidaniel>	In other words, the licensing information you're seeing is simply a template: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-self
[08:23:58] <arvernes>	jamie_hari: I don't have a way to modify my upload page ?
[08:24:42] <jamie_hari>	You do...
[08:24:52] <jamie_hari>	It is a system message...
[08:24:59] <jamie_hari>	check Special:Allmessages
[08:25:09] <_wooz>	lo
[08:25:30] <jamie_hari>	That is to modify the text of the page, to modify WHICH url Special:Upload goes to, you define that in LocalSettings.php
[08:25:44] <jamie_hari>	(see DefaultSettings.php for how to do that)
[08:25:50] <arvernes>	ok
[09:13:34] <BibTeX>	hello
[09:13:48] <BibTeX>	I am new to mediawiki
[09:14:06] <BibTeX>	I there a way to forbid users from registering online?
[09:14:18] <BibTeX>	could we make registration private
[09:14:19] <BibTeX>	?
[09:14:34] <amidaniel>	!access | BibTeX
[09:14:34] <mwbot>	BibTeX: For information on preventing access to your wiki, please see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access>.
[09:15:05] <BibTeX>	alright!
[09:15:06] <BibTeX>	thx
[09:15:08] <BibTeX>	:)
[09:15:38] <amidaniel>	np :) If that manual's no help and you'd like a less impersonal response, don't hesitate to say so :D
[09:16:14] <BibTeX>	ok 
[09:16:19] <BibTeX>	i can see that in the manual
[09:16:30] <BibTeX>	i can put  $wgWhitelistAccount = array ( "user" => 0, "sysop" => 0, "developer" => 0 );
[09:16:36] <BibTeX>	and leave everybody out
[09:16:47] <BibTeX>	but will I be able as an ADMIN to add users?
[09:17:21] <amidaniel>	Erm, that will only work on 1.5 and below .. you're probably looking for $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount'] = false;
[09:17:54] <amidaniel>	With that you will admins will be able to create accounts, though with the line you provided on pre-1.5, no one will be able to create accounts
[09:17:54] <BibTeX>	ok I c
[09:18:35] <BibTeX>	basicly in mediawiki, configuration is done by writing to one file LocatSettings.php
[09:18:42] <amidaniel>	indeed
[09:18:42] <BibTeX>	and the UI is prety basic
[09:18:45] <BibTeX>	is that correct?
[09:18:49] <amidaniel>	indeed ;)
[09:18:51] <BibTeX>	i c
[09:18:53] <BibTeX>	not bad
[09:19:03] <BibTeX>	alright  y friend
[09:19:07] <BibTeX>	i have to go sleep now
[09:19:13] <BibTeX>	it's 2:30 am
[09:19:15] <amidaniel>	alright .. sweet dreams ;)
[09:19:19] <amidaniel>	3:19 here
[09:19:24] <BibTeX>	:) thx for your helo
[09:19:30] <amidaniel>	np
[09:23:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) SMW tooltip text may not fit its talk bubble, can' t scroll it. - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11656 minor; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (info)
[09:23:49] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Localization of Thai year - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11657 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Internationalization; (pseeluan)
[09:39:52] <gabry80>	hi o all, there is a way in mediawiki to delete a User?
[09:40:08] <flyingparchment>	gabry80: short answer: maybe, but you shouldn't
[09:40:15] <gabry80>	i have to
[09:40:18] <flyingparchment>	why?
[09:40:21] <gabry80>	i create a user just for try something
[09:40:30] <gabry80>	as a clone
[09:40:46] <gabry80>	i can do it by database, but maybe there a way in mediawiki
[09:41:34] <amidaniel>	gabry80: Why must you delete this user? What harm is it doing to have the account?
[09:41:45] <jamie_hari|sleep>	restore from backup.
[09:51:48] <gabry80>	ops, sorry, -> Why must you delete this user? What harm is it doing to have the account?
[09:52:03] <Waldir>	hi there. Brion once told me that once we finish transferring all images from portuguese wikipedia to commons, the whole Image: namespace could be bloqued for editing. I was thinking if it the namespace could be already semi-protected
[09:52:04] <gabry80>	just because i don't want to see in the list user an account name "test"
[09:52:05] <gabry80>	lol
[09:52:40] <amidaniel>	Waldir: bugzilla.wikimedia.org
[09:52:58] <amidaniel>	gabry80: Well, then rename him to something else -- it will save you a lot of headaches; trust me :)
[09:53:05] <Waldir>	amidaniel: I know, I just wanted an advice before sending the bug :)
[09:53:16] <amidaniel>	Waldir: Ah :)
[09:53:40] <amidaniel>	Well, I don't see what harm it could do if the namespace is planned for deprecation shortly anyway
[09:54:15] <Waldir>	yea, we decided to do so since many IPs edit the namespace without knowing that the images are not hosted locally
[09:54:23] <Waldir>	adding descriptions and such
[09:54:41] <Waldir>	well, I'll fill the bug, then
[09:56:50] <Waldir>	look, how do I add links in the [[]] format to bugzilla?
[09:56:56] <Waldir>	like, for a portuguese wikipedia page
[09:57:08] <Waldir>	I never managed to make them work, and there's no preview..
[09:57:31] <amidaniel>	I think you can just treat it as an interwiki link
[09:57:40] <amidaniel>	i.e., [[pg:Main page]]
[09:58:13] <Waldir>	weird, i think I've tried that
[09:58:26] <amidaniel>	hmm .. dunno. Bugzilla is a bit funky
[09:58:31] <Waldir>	but I am not sure anyway
[09:58:37] <Waldir>	I'll let u know if it works
[09:58:42] <amidaniel>	k :)
[10:07:42] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) semi-protect Image: namespace on pt.wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11658 normal; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (waldir)
[10:07:51] <Waldir>	didnt work :(
[10:13:56] <amidaniel>	Darn
[10:13:58] <amidaniel>	Dunno though
[10:14:04] <amidaniel>	Dunno know then*
[10:14:11] *amidaniel 	attempts to relearn speaking and writing ...
[10:15:38] <FreeNom>	re
[10:15:47] <Jack_Phoenix>	rar
[10:15:52] <FreeNom>	:)
[10:17:28] <FreeNom>	smw RC1 just came out
[10:17:34] <wikibugs>	03(mod) semi-protect Image: namespace on pt.wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11658   +shell (10raimond.spekking)
[10:23:42] *AzaTht 	digs around Werdna's grave
[10:47:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	bletch
[10:48:46] <AmiDaniel_away>	MediaWiki development and support | Security fixes: 1.11.0, 1.10.2, 1.9.4, 1.8.5 | Latest stable: 1.11.0 for PHP5, 1.6.10 for PHP4 | Don't paste text to the channel, use http://rafb.net/paste/ | FAQ: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/FAQ | [[Manual:Installation]] moved from Meta to MediaWiki.org - please check docs and update | Channel logged, see http://tinyurl.com/2896ae | Don't ask if anyone's around, just ask
[10:48:59] <AmiDaniel_away>	woops again
[10:49:02] <AmiDaniel_away>	Thar we go
[10:52:54] <Nikerabbit>	AmiDaniel_away: i though that public logging was not used here like it's not allowed in other channels either?
[10:53:59] <AmiDaniel_away>	No, it's allowed here and in #wikimedia-tech. Brion, Tim, et al. have given their consent, and the foundation folks don't mind since these chans aren't really "Wikimedia" chans but dev chans
[10:54:58] <Nikerabbit>	baa
[10:55:28] <Nikerabbit>	I still don't like it, especially if google picks it up
[10:55:59] <AmiDaniel_away>	Well, you're being logged by quite a few bots in here :) Nabble's been logging here for quite some time to compile witty stats
[10:56:08] <AmiDaniel_away>	(not my doing)
[10:56:21] <BrokenArrow>	AmiDaniel_away: please delete all my comments from public logs. now.
[10:56:40] <AmiDaniel_away>	O.o
[10:57:05] <Wiredtape>	hehe
[10:57:47] <Wiredtape>	is the "channel logged" in the title new? 
[10:58:08] *VasilievVV 	also logs IRC channels, but it's not publically available
[10:58:22] <AmiDaniel_away>	o.O
[10:58:25] <BrokenArrow>	VasilievVV: no objection to that. Public logging is an entirely different thing 
[10:58:29] *AmiDaniel_away 	finds shock that this is suddenly a new thing
[10:58:56] <BrokenArrow>	AmiDaniel_away: not kidding. either it's that, or I'll call wm.de about that. 
[10:58:56] <AmiDaniel_away>	BrokenArrow: Public logging's been allowed in this channel for eons. I don't understand your concern
[10:58:59] <VasilievVV>	BrokenArrow: the only way to read my IRC logs is to guess directory name on toolserver
[10:59:28] *Jack_Phoenix 	doesn't care about logging or not logging
[10:59:39] <AmiDaniel_away>	BrokenArrow: Do you mind my asking what your concern is?
[11:00:10] *VasilievVV 	also doesn't care about it, only if he said somthing wrong
[11:02:00] <BrokenArrow>	AmiDaniel_away: the audience, context and timeframe of the comments. Once you publich them, they can become anything else. Over that, personal data such as IPs are not what I'd want to put in public except unter my control
[11:02:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	There is no personal data, no ips, etc., recorded. Not even joins / parts or channel topics
[11:02:45] <AmiDaniel_away>	Nabble on the other hand publishes logs with all of that data
[11:03:27] <AmiDaniel_away>	This is a technical support channel, not a social channel. It's a common expectation that comments in such channels will be logged as they are helpful to others
[11:03:44] <Nikerabbit>	I don't generally mind, I just don't want search engines to pick it up
[11:03:45] <VasilievVV>	AmiDaniel_away: can you fix mime type for IRC logs?
[11:03:47] <CIA-6>	03raymond * r26707 10/trunk/extensions/OggHandler/OggHandler.i18n.php: 
[11:03:47] <CIA-6>	* (bug 11648) Russian translation
[11:03:47] <CIA-6>	Patch by Alexander Sigachov
[11:04:06] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Russian translation - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11648  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[11:04:15] <AmiDaniel_away>	Nikerabbit: Alright, I'll add nofollows .. that should stop any crawlers
[11:04:19] <Wiredtape>	I would rather search engines not pick it up either.
[11:04:29] <BrokenArrow>	Same as nike. Except for the occasional pun, my comments here are indeed technical. 
[11:04:30] <AmiDaniel_away>	VasilievVV: Hm, hadn't even noticed that. Just a sec
[11:05:21] <Nikerabbit>	search results for my nick is already full of crap
[11:05:39] <Jack_Phoenix>	mine too, but [[uncyclopedia:nobody cares|I cannot care]]
[11:05:43] <Wiredtape>	exactly...
[11:06:01] <Wiredtape>	exactly to what nikerabbit said.. my nick is my website as well.
[11:06:20] <Nikerabbit>	some fucking seo-page second result
[11:06:28] <Wiredtape>	and so, I don't want crap popping up when someone googles it.
[11:06:59] <AmiDaniel_away>	Alright, noindex, nofollows added
[11:07:12] <AmiDaniel_away>	Don't know why the mime type is screwy all of a sudden
[11:07:25] <minute-ssh>	AmiDaniel_away: How about robots.txt?
[11:07:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	minute-ssh: I don't have access to that :)
[11:07:54] <AmiDaniel_away>	Search crawlers will obey the meta tags though. At least yahoo, google, msn, etc.
[11:07:56] <minute-ssh>	On your own website?
[11:08:02] <AmiDaniel_away>	minute-ssh: It's on the ts
[11:08:16] <minute-ssh>	Ahh, but don't you have access to the robts.txt in your directory?
[11:10:52] <minute-ssh>	A simple /w 7
[11:12:10] <RoanKattouw>	AmiDaniel_away is there any way to get those chan logs in a more readable format?
[11:13:41] <AmiDaniel_away>	RoanKattouw: I've been meaning to get a pager / seaarch dealio up, but haven't gotten to it yet. Right now it's just the raw whatever
[11:14:00] <AmiDaniel_away>	minute-ssh: Will crawlers check for a robots.txt in each directory they index? O.o
[11:14:17] <RoanKattouw>	Maybe a PHP script that parses it and displays it more prettily?
[11:14:25] <Wiredtape_Away>	does anyone know of an address book server? (something that can share address books... other than ldap?)
[11:14:38] <RoanKattouw>	i.e. with every message on a new line and with *stuff* /like/ _this_ properly formattted
[11:14:46] <minute-ssh>	AmiDaniel_away: IIRC
[11:16:14] <Nikerabbit>	that much for the public logging ban... http://ircarc.com/freenode-wikipedia/1321.html
[11:16:42] <AmiDaniel_away>	RoanKattouw: They are on new lines -- you're just on a windows box :)
[11:16:49] <CIA-6>	03raymond * r26708 10/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): * Update German
[11:17:20] <RoanKattouw>	Meh
[11:17:27] *RoanKattouw 	tries to find Wordpad
[11:17:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	huh .. why is file -bi giving me back application/octet-stream
[11:17:48] <AmiDaniel_away>	on all of them .. never happened to me before .. they're just plain text
[11:17:55] <RoanKattouw>	Dunno
[11:18:29] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) German translation of prefs-help-realname system message - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11650  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[11:19:13] <RoanKattouw>	AmiDaniel_away I see now
[11:19:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	alright .. fixed
[11:19:52] <RoanKattouw>	BTW AmiDaniel_away you renamed 20071014 to 20071014.txt but the logger just created a new file
[11:20:34] <AmiDaniel_away>	haha .. yeah
[11:20:36] <AmiDaniel_away>	hold up
[11:21:40] *AmiDaniel_away 	growls
[11:21:50] <AmiDaniel_away>	@die
[11:26:03] <RoanKattouw>	Let's see if it works now...
[11:26:11] <AmiDaniel_away>	testest
[11:26:28] <AmiDaniel_away>	Alright, life is good
[11:26:44] <RoanKattouw>	Yep, it works now
[11:27:00] <RoanKattouw>	Still, EOL-style is an annoyance for Windows users
[11:27:11] <RoanKattouw>	Notepad messes it up, they have to use Wordpad
[11:27:15] <AmiDaniel_away>	Meh, who cares about them :P
[11:27:18] <AmiDaniel_away>	Get gvim
[11:29:37] *RoanKattouw 	has GVIM, KWrite and all that good stuff at home
[11:29:53] *AmiDaniel_away 	tosses RoanKattouw a cookie
[11:30:09] *RoanKattouw 	eats it and says "Whoof!"
[11:30:21] <AmiDaniel_away>	heh
[11:32:01] *RoanKattouw 	just noticed joins, leaves and nick changes aren't logged
[11:34:18] *AmiDaniel_away 	notes that this was intentional
[11:37:32] <asmarin>	hi
[12:52:11] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Gallery sometimes ignores image when using filename copied from URL - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11659 minor; normal; MediaWiki: Images; (brianna.laugher)
[13:26:11] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) collapse smw_isspecprop and smw_propertyspecial - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11660 minor; low; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (info)
[13:41:28] <Werdna>	2:05 of inactivity, a record
[13:42:00] <AmiDaniel_away>	wikibugs might debate that claim
[13:48:23] <Moniker43>	Warning: mkdir() [function.mkdir]: Permission denied in /mounted-storage/home74a/sub002/sc41977-VFUP/www/wiki/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 1670
[13:48:24] <Moniker43>	Error deleting file: Could not create directory "deleted/1/p/c".
[13:48:31] <Moniker43>	help? =(
[13:54:39] <VasilievVV>	Moniker43: disable safe mode
[13:54:45] <Moniker43>	it's already disabled
[13:55:47] <Moniker43>	vasilievVV, any idea what to do next then? =\
[13:57:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Gallery sometimes ignores image when using filename copied from URL - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11659  (10code>
[13:57:58] <wikibugs>	$tp = Title::newFromText( $matches[1] );
[13:57:58] <wikibugs>	$nt =& $tp;
[13:57:58] <wikibugs>	if( is_null( $nt ) ) {
[13:57:58] <wikibugs>	# Bogus title. Ignore these so we don't bomb out later.
[13:58:00] <wikibugs>	continue;
[13:58:02] <wikibugs>	}
[13:58:04] <wikibugs>	</code>
[13:58:08] <wikibugs>	I'm not totally sure what constitutes a "bogus" title, since redlinked images
[13:58:10] <wikibugs>	appear in galleries... Ideally the image should show up, if not then it should
[13:58:12] <wikibugs>	be treated like a filename that doesn't exist, ie. the name just prints out as
[13:58:14] <wikibugs>	plain text.
[13:58:20] <wikibugs>	-- 
[13:58:22] <wikibugs>	Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
[13:58:24] <wikibugs>	------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
[13:58:26] <wikibugs>	You are the assignee for the bug.
[13:58:28] <wikibugs>	You are watching all bug changes.
[13:58:32] <wikibugs>	_______________________________________________
[13:58:34] <wikibugs>	Wikibugs-l mailing list
[13:58:36] <wikibugs>	Wikibugs-l)
[13:59:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Internationalisation of ProofreadPage - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10255  (10lejonel)
[13:59:41] <Moniker43>	is wikibugs a bot?
[13:59:46] <VasilievVV>	wtf with wikibugs?
[13:59:53] <Jack_Phoenix>	whoa - flood
[13:59:58] <Moniker43>	if yes, someone needs to teach him to use pastebin
[14:00:53] <VasilievVV>	Moniker43: ir
[14:01:03] <VasilievVV>	*it's a bug of wikibugs
[14:01:09] <Moniker43>	vasilievvv ir?
[14:01:53] <VasilievVV>	Moniker43: I accidently pressed "Enter"
[14:02:20] <Moniker43>	ah
[14:02:40] <Moniker43>	he should've kicked himself for flooding :P
[14:05:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Internationalisation of ProofreadPage - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10255   +patch (10lejonel)
[14:10:39] <Moniker43>	so does anyone know why i have that error above?
[14:10:52] <Moniker43>	Warning: mkdir() [function.mkdir]: Permission denied in /mounted-storage/home74a/sub002/sc41977-VFUP/www/wiki/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 1670
[14:10:53] <Moniker43>	 <Moniker43> Error deleting file: Could not create directory "deleted/1/p/c".
[14:11:32] <VasilievVV>	Moniker43: no ideas. I looked at code - there's a comment on line 1670
[14:11:46] <eifersucht>	where i can find mine indez.html file?
[14:11:54] <eifersucht>	index
[14:12:43] <Moniker43>	vasilievvv, comment?
[14:12:57] <VasilievVV>	Yep
[14:13:01] <VasilievVV>	/**
[14:13:34] <Moniker43>	vasilievv, FTP/wiki is on the other computer, if you have it open could you paste the comment please? :)
[14:14:19] <eifersucht>	where i can find mine index.html file so i can add the meta tags and index mine wiki to google 
[14:14:28] <eifersucht>	?
[14:14:56] <Moniker43>	vasilievv, nvm i'll just move over to the other computer....
[14:21:44] <eifersucht>	?
[14:24:34] *AzaTht 	is targetting Werdna 
[14:28:31] <eifersucht>	hello, where i can fin mine index.html page or index.php so i can edith that file and put the meta tags ( i am tring to index mine wiki site to google)
[14:31:12] <AzaTht>	eifersucht: it's defined in skins/<skin>.php
[14:38:42] <CIA-6>	03nikerabbit * r26709 10/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialPage.php: No idea what this is supposed to do, but at least this way it doesn't break special:contributions, for example
[14:40:50] <meithal>	hello
[14:41:00] <Nikerabbit>	hi
[14:42:01] <meithal>	is there a way to detect a __NOEDITSECTION__ excepted by detecting headigs without the class="editsection" ?
[14:42:24] <meithal>	cos it's not very reliable (articles without sub-headings for example)
[14:42:41] <meithal>	(in javascript)
[14:43:23] <meithal>	seen nothing in the wg's variables
[14:43:51] <eifersucht>	how can i add a license to mine wiki, cose it doesnt have one 
[14:44:53] <VasilievVV>	meithal: parse wikitext?
[14:45:58] <meithal>	VasilievVV : i do but nothing shows a __NOEDITSECTION__ in an article with only a <h1 class="firstheading"> and no subsections
[14:46:50] <VasilievVV>	meithal: you can load raw text of an article to look for __NOEDITSECTION__
[14:47:16] <meithal>	\o/ thanks
[14:48:47] <meithal>	aw, no the raw is loaded only after an event attached to the editsection's heading was switched (on dblclick), it will be too many loads
[14:48:58] <meithal>	is switched*
[14:49:49] <meithal>	well, it will be brutal but have no choice i guess
[14:52:53] <meithal>	eifersucht : lok in the localsettings.php
[14:52:55] <meithal>	look
[14:53:38] <Moniker42>	hey, i can't seem to delete images...
[14:53:38] <Moniker42>	Warning: mkdir() [function.mkdir]: Permission denied in /mounted-storage/home74a/sub002/sc41977-VFUP/www/wiki/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 1670
[14:53:38] <Moniker42>	Error deleting file: Could not create directory "deleted/1/p/c".
[14:54:12] <Moniker42>	can i just create the directory deleted/1/p/c and chmod 777 it/
[14:54:14] <Moniker42>	*it?
[14:57:43] <VasilievVV>	Moniker42: check if you are allowed to delete files?
[14:57:55] <Moniker42>	VasilievVV, what? =\
[14:58:12] <VasilievVV>	check file rights
[14:58:21] <VasilievVV>	*file mode
[14:58:23] <Moniker42>	VasilievVV, how do i do that?
[14:58:30] <VasilievVV>	ls -l
[14:58:47] <meithal>	Moniker42 : just create a 777 /deleted , sub folders are automaticly generated (if i'm not wrong)
[14:59:06] <Moniker42>	k thanks meithal =)
[15:00:03] <Moniker42>	meithal, is that www/wiki/images/deleted or just www/wiki/deleted?
[15:04:12] <VasilievVV>	wiki/images/deleted I think
[15:04:25] <Moniker42>	hmmm
[15:04:29] <Moniker42>	that directory already exists =\
[15:04:32] <Moniker42>	oh, chmod! =)
[15:05:03] <Moniker42>	and it woooooorrks! =D
[15:05:11] <Moniker42>	thanks VasilievVV / meithal
[15:05:17] <meithal>	*\o/*
[15:05:26] <Moniker42>	pompoms? :)
[15:05:34] <meithal>	:)
[15:06:22] <Kulik>	Hi, I installed a brand new wiki and I would like to make it multilingual (just 2 languges), I found several multi language extensions but they all seem experimental or too simple (just a special tag), what extension does wikipedia.org use?
[15:06:40] <Kulik>	I mean I don't need something that complex I just need to couple 2 pages that refer to the same thing but in different languages
[15:08:06] <Moniker42>	*\o/*
[15:08:17] <Moniker42>	sorry, i'm being unhelpful, but i like that emoticon..
[15:15:02] <CIA-6>	03nikerabbit * r26710 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (9 files): * Fix some xhtml issues
[15:21:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Changing a username changes the name, leaving contribution record behind. - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11661 major; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (wiki_tomos)
[15:25:08] <meithal>	Kulik : you need interwikis ?
[15:25:36] <Kulik>	meithal: I will look into it, thanks, I am really new to wikis in general, so excuse my ignorance ;)
[16:09:17] <chb>	hi
[16:09:42] <meithal>	lo
[16:09:59] <Nikerabbit>	hi
[16:10:00] <Kulik>	meithal: but I will have to create 2 wikis for 2 languages, right? to get interwiki translations?
[16:10:56] <Nikerabbit>	Kulik: aren't subpages enough for your use case?
[16:12:06] <Kulik>	Nikerabbit: hmm I guess, if I knew how to create them :-D
[16:12:56] <chb>	well I've got a .rtf file and want to import that into MW - any idea how this can be done? 
[16:14:11] <chb>	I figured out I could do this via <html> - but then the output is filtered and I only need plain text anyway :-/
[16:14:11] <Nikerabbit>	Kulik: you could use template similar to what is in bottom of http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images/de
[16:15:07] <Nikerabbit>	chb: you can save it as plain text and copy that?
[16:15:29] <Kulik>	Nikerabbit: yeah a good idea, thank you
[16:15:50] <Nikerabbit>	Kulik: it needs parserfunctions extension I think
[16:17:47] <joergens_mi>	What is the maximum size for a media in MB, that can be loaded to commons?  thank you
[16:19:30] <minute-ssh>	10MB
[16:19:35] <minute-ssh>	wrong channel btw
[16:19:44] <chb>	Nikerabbit, yeah - just found out that OOo can export with MW formatting - ;-) 
[16:20:12] <Nikerabbit>	chb: it's pretty new feature then
[16:20:39] <chb>	think so - it wasn't there in 2.2 
[16:20:46] <chb>	works pretty good .. 
[16:21:31] <joergens_mi>	michi_cc: Ii know but on the commons channel nobody knows anything about that topik, thanks
[16:21:50] <joergens_mi>	minute-ssh I know but on the commons channel nobody knows anything about that topik, thanks
[16:22:09] <minute-ssh>	lol
[16:22:12] <minute-ssh>	dw
[16:23:07] <lejonet>	Is it not 20 MB?
[16:29:30] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) french localization update - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11662 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Internationalization; (bertrand.grondin)
[17:03:29] <tgr>	hi, has someone here pywikipedia commit access?
[17:05:21] <Jack_Phoenix>	tgr: at least Misza13 has
[17:23:37] <mm10dev>	hi @
[17:24:04] <mm10dev>	i have two question on mediawiki
[17:25:43] <mm10dev>	1. is there a good texteditor for mediawiki, so anyone can write a good / nice page
[17:26:25] <galderromo>	hi
[17:27:30] <mm10dev>	hi
[17:29:38] <yannf>	hello
[17:29:54] <yannf>	i have a problem with some JS functions
[17:30:20] <yannf>	and some [[MediaWiki:...]] pages
[17:30:38] <yannf>	http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Monobook.js
[17:30:52] <yannf>	http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/MediaWiki:Monobook.js
[17:31:10] <yannf>	i copied the page, but it produces a different result
[17:31:53] <yannf>	actually i also tried http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/MediaWiki:Common.js
[17:32:09] <yannf>	because the first is mentioned as deprecated
[17:32:37] <yannf>	where's the problem?
[17:44:24] <galderromo>	has someone used the "Usage Statistics" extension?
[18:01:52] <lejonet>	yannf: Some scripts rely on the wiki setup. For example, PageQuality is written for Page and Livre namespaces, and your wiki do not have those.
[18:02:28] <yannf>	ok, but it should work for other namespaces, isn't?
[18:03:59] <lejonet>	No, that script is written to only work in those two namespaces.
[18:29:14] <AzaTht>	Werdna: ping again
[18:31:18] <yannf>	ok, i got the right script
[18:31:24] <yannf>	but there is a bug
[18:31:53] <yannf>	http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/Le_Parfum_de_la_dame_en_noir
[18:32:05] <yannf>	the script: http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/MediaWiki:Common.js
[18:39:19] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[18:58:59] <jonasP>	i've updated from 1.10 to 1.11 - now my edit-section links are broken. can anyone help me?
[19:00:40] <jonasP>	they show just "[]" instead of "[edit]"
[19:03:26] <Duesentrieb>	jonasP: what does MediaWiki:editsection say? (click edit even if it says the page doesn't exist)
[19:06:52] <jonasP>	it says "bearbeiten
[19:07:00] <jonasP>	(= edit)
[19:07:58] <jonasP>	ok i found a mistake. i have editsection-brackets as "[]"
[19:09:25] <jonasP>	i deleted it. still the same
[19:10:22] <jonasP>	does anyone have a documentation for "Add 'editsection-brackets' message to allow localization (or removal) of the brackets in the "[edit]" link for sections 
[19:12:36] <jonasP>	editsection-brackets is a new message but i can't find any comments on this
[19:15:26] <yannf>	anyone can help please?
[19:15:48] <yannf>	about this bug http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/Le_Parfum_de_la_dame_en_noir
[19:15:55] <yannf>	the script: http://www.wikilivres.info/wiki/index.php/MediaWiki:Common.js
[19:19:51] <Duesentrieb>	yannf: this looks suspicious: a.innerHTML = s.substring(0,i+5)+image+s.substring(i+5,s.length-1);
[19:20:00] <Duesentrieb>	what's the i+5 stuff?
[19:20:15] <yannf>	i don't know
[19:20:30] <yannf>	JS is sheer mystery for me
[19:20:57] <Duesentrieb>	don't mess with it then :)
[19:21:26] <yannf>	well i copied the code from WS where it works
[19:21:44] <Duesentrieb>	well, that doesn't mean much
[19:21:57] <yannf>	yes :os
[19:22:06] <Duesentrieb>	it looks at the tab and looks for the position of the String "Texte" - which is probably not there.
[19:22:28] <Duesentrieb>	then it tries to insert something at the position after "Texte"
[19:22:50] <Duesentrieb>	if the position is -1 (not found), it ends up at position 4, causing a mess. i guess that's what is happening
[19:23:13] <Duesentrieb>	the code is terrible btw. it would be much nicer to use a regular expression to inject the image code after whatever
[19:25:04] <Duesentrieb>	yannf: annyway, it should work if you replace "Texte" by "article", and i+5 by i+7
[19:26:57] <AaronSchulz_>	brion: fuck
[19:27:06] <brion>	hey
[19:27:09] <AaronSchulz_>	now I have to merge sp:undelete again
[19:27:13] <brion>	:D
[19:27:21] <AaronSchulz_>	manually, for like the 20th time
[19:27:29] <yannf>	Duesentrieb, no, doesn't work
[19:27:30] <brion>	hehehe
[19:27:32] <AaronSchulz_>	Fatal error: Cannot redeclare UndeleteForm::showDiff() in C:\Server\xampp\htdocs\MW\includes\SpecialUndelete.php on line 885
[19:27:36] <AaronSchulz_>	someone else added that
[19:29:05] <jonasP>	esitsection error: instead of clickable "[edit]" it just shows "<editsection-brackets>". is this a bug?
[19:29:49] *brion 	looks innocent
[19:29:58] <Duesentrieb>	yannf: you missed one i+5
[19:30:04] <brion>	jonasP: sounds like you didn't update your message files?
[19:31:12] <Duesentrieb>	yannf: also make sure i-1 is not <0. if it is, do nothing, or show a warning
[19:31:14] <jonasP>	doesn't the 1.11 installer update them by default?
[19:31:32] <brion>	the installer doesn't update files, just the db
[19:32:27] <jonasP>	in fact the "editsection-brackets" message is missing in my message file...
[19:33:26] <brion>	what method are you using to update the files?
[19:34:28] <jonasP>	the files? i just extracted the files into a new directory and copied my image-directory and my LocalSettings into it
[19:35:06] <jonasP>	the i rerun the installer
[19:35:12] <jonasP>	then
[19:35:22] <Duesentrieb>	jonasP: you are probably still using the old files.
[19:35:35] <Duesentrieb>	or a mix of both. which causes confusion
[19:36:33] <yannf>	Duesentrieb, you mean s.length-1?
[19:36:39] <Duesentrieb>	no.
[19:36:42] <Duesentrieb>	i mean i+5
[19:36:57] <Duesentrieb>	ah, you fixed it now.
[19:37:10] <Duesentrieb>	well, it *looks* like it should work now. or at least, be broken in a different way.
[19:37:44] <Duesentrieb>	in any case, if i is -1, it'll still break. could be that you have to look for Article, not article, btw.
[19:38:00] <Duesentrieb>	and it's achy breacky code. using a regex would be much better
[19:38:04] <Duesentrieb>	anyway, goota go
[19:38:13] <yannf>	ok, thanks
[19:38:20] <jonasP>	ok, i will reinstall the whole thing then
[19:39:43] <yannf>	Duesentrieb,this is already much better: a.innerHTML = a.innerHTML + image;
[19:41:54] <CIA-6>	03aaron * r26711 10/trunk/extensions/DeletedContributions/DeletedContributions_body.php: *Add diff links
[19:42:09] <jonasP>	where are the messages saved??
[19:43:08] <RoanKattouw>	jonasP in the MediaWiki: namespace
[19:43:50] <jonasP>	in the database
[19:43:51] <jonasP>	??
[19:45:22] <RoanKattouw>	jonasP do you mean the default values, or the modified values?
[19:45:36] <RoanKattouw>	You can modify messages by editing pages in the MediaWiki: namespace
[19:45:57] <RoanKattouw>	The default values are in /languages/messagesEn.php (or messagesDe.php, etc.)
[19:48:58] <jonasP>	do you have a default value for editsection-brackets in your  /languages/messagesEn.php
[19:50:40] <jonasP>	ok, i got it...
[19:52:27] <woddf2>	Hello
[19:52:42] <woddf2>	I installed MediaWiki, and now it is telling me to install it again!
[19:52:49] <hydrated>	olleh woddf2 
[19:53:09] <woddf2>	http://wlair.us.to/internal
[19:54:29] <hydrated>	woddf2, where is localsettings.php ?
[19:54:51] <woddf2>	I moved it to the root of the wiki's directory.
[19:55:15] <Jack_Phoenix>	heya MinuteElectron :)
[19:55:19] <MinuteElectron>	hi
[19:55:33] <hydrated>	woddf2, try to delete /config 
[19:55:51] <hydrated>	what about its permissions?
[19:56:05] <hydrated>	is it readable by the apache
[19:56:15] <woddf2>	I think so.
[19:56:34] <woddf2>	It works now!
[19:56:39] <woddf2>	Thanks
[19:56:41] <woddf2>	Goodbye
[19:56:56] <hydrated>	you welcome
[19:58:05] <jonasP>	is this a bug? when i create "editsection-brackets" and then redelete it, the editsection-tags don't work anymore.
[19:58:20] <jonasP>	in a german (not en) installation
[19:59:21] <hydrated>	don't know, may be cache 
[20:02:07] <MinuteElectron>	Jack_Phoenix: I am a botnet :P
[20:02:25] <Jack_Phoenix>	:o
[20:03:06] <minute-ssh>	I is gonna haxor you all init.
[20:03:12] <MinuteElectron>	lol
[20:10:17] <woddf2>	Hello
[20:10:32] <woddf2>	I copied a template from Wikipedia to my wiki, and it does not work correctly!
[20:10:41] <The_Joke>	you better just hang on here
[20:10:46] <The_Joke>	of course 
[20:10:57] <The_Joke>	you need to install the same extensions on wikipedia
[20:11:08] <MZMcBride>	it's probably ParserFunctions
[20:11:14] <woddf2>	How do I do that?
[20:11:18] <The_Joke>	see en.wikipedia.org/special:version
[20:11:19] <MZMcBride>	!parserfunctions
[20:11:19] <mwbot>	For help using parser functions, please see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions>.
[20:11:22] <MZMcBride>	!extensions
[20:11:22] <mwbot>	MediaWiki has been built so it can easily be customized by adding extensions. This is usually a simple process. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Extensions> for details on writing an extension and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_Matrix> for an overview of known extensions.
[20:11:45] <The_Joke>	oh we now have a bot :)
[20:12:56] <The_Joke>	Alone_Coder, alone in Russia  ? 
[20:13:15] <Alone_Coder>	:)
[20:14:08] <Alone_Coder>	I've seen someone else last time
[20:23:32] <woddf2>	I installed ParserFunctions.php, and now I receive the following error message:
[20:23:34] <woddf2>	Fatal error: require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required '/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php' (include_path='/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal:/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/includes:/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/languages:.:/usr/share/php') in /www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/LocalSettings.php on
[20:23:34] <woddf2>	line 127
[20:24:50] <The_Joke>	again check permissions
[20:47:21] <woddf2>	The_Joke: I checked the permissions, but it still does not work.
[20:52:07] <MZMcBride>	woddf2: do you have any other extensions installed?
[20:52:15] <woddf2>	No
[20:52:39] <woddf2>	...just ExtensionFunctions.php
[20:53:02] <MZMcBride>	which version of mw do you have?
[20:53:10] <Jack_Phoenix>	woddf2: where did you install parserfunctions - what folder, do you have all the php files?
[20:53:12] <The_Joke>	what is the include line?
[20:53:38] <woddf2>	I installed it into [wiki root]/extensions .
[20:53:49] <woddf2>	The include line is require_once( "$IP/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php" );
[20:53:49] <Jack_Phoenix>	uhh
[20:53:52] <Jack_Phoenix>	that's the problem
[20:54:01] <The_Joke>	try to put hardcoded 
[20:54:08] <Jack_Phoenix>	create a new directory called ParserFunctions under extensions folder
[20:54:14] <Jack_Phoenix>	put parserfunctions php files there
[20:54:17] <Jack_Phoenix>	and then retry
[20:54:22] <The_Joke>	rm $IP 
[20:56:51] <woddf2>	The wiki works, but the template still does not work.
[21:00:32] <MZMcBride>	which template is it?
[21:00:56] <woddf2>	http://wlair.us.to/internal/index.php/Template:Infobox_Broadcast
[21:01:23] <MZMcBride>	it's a Tidy issue
[21:01:26] <MZMcBride>	!tidy
[21:01:45] <MinuteElectron>	@search tidy
[21:01:45] <mwbot>	Results: []
[21:01:50] <MinuteElectron>	@search htmltidy
[21:01:50] <mwbot>	Results: []
[21:02:05] <Jack_Phoenix>	boo
[21:02:59] <MZMcBride>	!tidy is For more information about HTML Tidy, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy>.
[21:02:59] <mwbot>	Successfully added keyword: tidy
[21:03:18] <MZMcBride>	!htmltidy For more information about HTML Tidy, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy>.
[21:03:53] <MZMcBride>	woddf2: you need to enable the $wgUseTidy parameter in LocalSettings.php
[21:05:00] <Jack_Phoenix>	we need to make a page on MediaWiki.org about HTMLTidy...just a redirect will do
[21:07:48] <woddf2>	The template still does not work.
[21:08:08] <Jack_Phoenix>	do you have the HTMLTidy program?
[21:08:18] <woddf2>	Not yet
[21:08:29] <Jack_Phoenix>	$wgUseTidy = true; doesn't do anything probably without the actual HTMLTidy program...
[21:09:04] <woddf2>	Is there a MediaWiki version or something?
[21:11:59] <FreeNom>	G'Night Jack_Phoenix
[21:12:15] <Jack_Phoenix>	'night NomX, see you :)
[21:12:21] <FreeNom>	cu 2
[21:15:58] <The_Joke>	woddf2, see the extension folder on svn
[21:16:38] <woddf2>	Where is that?
[21:20:04] <RoanKattouw>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/
[21:26:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) New:=?UTF-8?Q?=20Display=20of=20lower=20cas?= =?UTF-8?Q?e=20rho=20as=20=CF=B1=20rather=20th?= =?UTF-8?Q?an=20=CF=81=20on=20Safari=20Brows?==?UTF-8?Q?er?= - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11663  (10N/A)
[21:29:04] <woddf2>	The template still does not work.
[21:29:19] <Cbrown1023>	can someone take a look at http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11663 for me? :-)
[21:29:49] <alnokta>	Cbrown1023, daa
[21:30:04] <Cbrown1023>	alnokta, hm? :-)
[21:30:26] <alnokta>	Cbrown1023, random characters :P
[21:30:34] <Majorly>	alnokta: where've you been??
[21:30:44] <Cbrown1023>	alnokta, haha
[21:30:51] <Cbrown1023>	Majorly, what do you mean?
[21:31:13] <NotACow>	wow, that was a mangled bug
[21:31:29] <alnokta>	me? 
[21:32:45] <alnokta>	Cbrown1023, don't use safari
[21:32:50] <alnokta>	:P
[21:32:52] <Cbrown1023>	lol
[21:32:54] <Cbrown1023>	I don't ;-)
[21:32:57] *Cbrown1023 	is using Firefox
[21:32:59] <Cbrown1023>	that was someone else
[21:33:10] <Cbrown1023>	but they e-mailed OTRS about the bug and I sent them to Bugzilla :-P
[21:33:25] <woddf2>	The template still does not work.
[21:34:06] <Majorly>	which?
[21:34:17] <woddf2>	http://wlair.us.to/internal/index.php/Template:Infobox_Broadcast
[21:38:04] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 you need to install the ParserFunctions extension
[21:38:07] <RoanKattouw>	@search parser
[21:38:07] <mwbot>	Results: [parserfunctions]
[21:38:16] <RoanKattouw>	!parserfunctions | woddf2
[21:38:16] <mwbot>	woddf2: For help using parser functions, please see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions>.
[21:38:22] <Jack_Phoenix>	gah
[21:38:43] <RoanKattouw>	See the Installation section
[21:38:53] <Jack_Phoenix>	AaronSchulz: any estimate when you have enough time to write Extension:ParserFunctions to MediaWiki.org? :)
[21:39:41] <AaronSchulz>	gah, Help:ParserFunctions is too big to import
[21:39:53] <AaronSchulz>	someone has to copy over the concepts
[21:40:06] <AaronSchulz>	and add the install stuff...it could be a while before I get to it
[21:40:44] <Jack_Phoenix>	okay, understood
[21:40:46] <alnokta>	woddf2, see this for a list of extensions found on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Version
[21:40:59] <Jack_Phoenix>	about time we're getting parserfunctions page to MediaWiki.org \o/
[21:43:01] <woddf2>	I installed ParserFuncions, and it still does not work.
[21:43:31] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 ParserFunctions doesn't show up in your [[Special:Version]]
[21:43:37] <RoanKattouw>	So it's not properly installed
[21:43:57] <RoanKattouw>	Did you add require_once("$IP/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php"); to LocalSettings.php?
[21:44:12] <woddf2>	Yes
[21:45:23] <RoanKattouw>	Did you put the ParserFunctions files in /extensions/ParserFunctions/ ?
[21:45:36] <RoanKattouw>	(Check your server logs for any file-not-found errors)
[21:45:40] <Jack_Phoenix>	and do you have all the files?
[21:45:47] <RoanKattouw>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions#Installation
[21:45:58] <RoanKattouw>	Expr.php, ParserFunctions.php and ParserFunctions.i18n.php
[21:47:44] *NotACow 	wonders how she'll support extensions
[21:48:30] *RoanKattouw 	wonders what NotACow is wondering
[21:49:31] <woddf2>	I installed ParserFuncions, and it still does not work.
[21:49:52] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 somehow you didn't install it correctly
[21:50:01] <RoanKattouw>	'Cause it doesn't show up in [[Special:Version]]
[21:50:13] <woddf2>	What happened?
[21:50:26] <RoanKattouw>	Try require_once("extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php") instead (i.e. remove the "$IP/")
[21:51:04] <alnokta>	thats what i have been trying to tell them 
[21:51:20] <woddf2>	I tried that.
[21:51:27] <RoanKattouw>	And make sure ParserFunctions.php and friends are in <wiki root>/extensions/ParserFunctions/
[21:51:45] <woddf2>	They are there.
[21:51:47] <RoanKattouw>	That means ParserFunctions.php, ParserFunctions.i18n.php and Expr.php
[21:52:05] <alnokta>	is there anyone working on an extension manager? where you can install extensions from it..i.e. download from svn, install ..
[21:52:48] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta why'd you want that, extensions are so easy already...
[21:52:57] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 that's weird
[21:53:30] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 stupid question maybe but check that the LocalSettings.php you've been editing is really connected to the wiki at wlair.us.to/internal/
[21:53:31] <NotACow>	RoanKattouw: no metawondering
[21:53:43] <RoanKattouw>	NotACow lol
[21:53:58] <RoanKattouw>	I just wondered what there is to wonder about how to support extensions; how could that be troublesome?
[21:54:12] <RoanKattouw>	Oh wait are you the one who's doing the Java thingy?
[21:54:17] <alnokta>	RoanKattouw, for you and me may be 
[21:54:40] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta how hard is it to create a dir, copy 3 files and add 1 line to a file?
[21:54:45] <RoanKattouw>	Even for newbies
[21:55:00] <alnokta>	exactly , now go make the extension manager
[21:55:02] <alnokta>	:P
[21:55:12] <alnokta>	it also checks for updates 
[21:55:23] <NotACow>	and fluffs your pillow, too
[21:55:37] <NotACow>	ooh, baby, fluff my pillows!
[21:56:20] <alnokta>	---
[21:56:38] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 try to add something weird to LocalSettings.php, change $wgSiteName for example
[21:56:46] <RoanKattouw>	See if it shows up
[21:57:43] <woddf2>	T changed $wgSiteName, and it did not work.
[21:57:58] <RoanKattouw>	Yep I see that
[21:58:02] <alnokta>	then you have issues 
[21:58:15] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm then somehow you're editing the wrong LocalSettings.php or you've put it in the wrong place
[21:58:19] <NotACow>	dammit
[21:58:24] <NotACow>	i hate reflection
[21:58:36] <RoanKattouw>	Your LocalSettings.php is in the wiki root right? (Where index.php and api.php are)
[21:58:58] <woddf2>	Yes
[21:59:16] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 that's weird
[21:59:36] <RoanKattouw>	Another stupid question: have you *saved* LocalSettings.php after you changed it?
[21:59:46] <alnokta>	lol
[21:59:48] <RoanKattouw>	And uploaded it to FTP or whatever you need to do to make it work?
[22:00:03] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta gotta ask stupid questions, a problem van have stupid causes
[22:00:40] <alnokta>	another troublesome suggestion, just delete the whole thing and install in a subdirectory , say wiki
[22:01:00] <alnokta>	RoanKattouw, yep
[22:01:24] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta not in that order
[22:01:32] <RoanKattouw>	You probably want to copy first, then delete ;)
[22:02:18] <alnokta>	either way 
[22:02:32] <alnokta>	if you have ssh just get the svn 
[22:05:00] <NotACow>	i hate reflection
[22:05:17] <RoanKattouw>	NotACow reflection?
[22:05:26] <RoanKattouw>	Like: I went from 519 to 498 errors today? ;)
[22:06:27] <alnokta>	RoanKattouw, ouch 
[22:06:38] <NotACow>	RoanKattouw: at the moment i've got around 5500 errors :)
[22:06:48] <RoanKattouw>	Oh lol underestimating then
[22:06:57] <RoanKattouw>	You've gone under 500 at some point in time, right?
[22:07:03] <RoanKattouw>	Or did I forget a trailing zero? 
[22:07:09] <alnokta>	how reflection is related to errors?
[22:07:37] <NotACow>	RoanKattouw: i pulled in the entire Api subdirectory today :)
[22:07:44] <RoanKattouw>	Ah
[22:07:55] <RoanKattouw>	Got it working in Java yet? Or are those the 5000 errors?
[22:07:57] <NotACow>	5175
[22:08:02] <RoanKattouw>	Right]
[22:08:11] <RoanKattouw>	That's partly my code you've been working on
[22:08:39] <CIA-6>	03kim * r26712 10/trunk/extensions/Wikidata/OmegaWiki/ (Copy.php DefinedMeaningModel.php WikiDataAPI.php): 
[22:08:39] <CIA-6>	2 Bugfixes to copying reported by GerardM
[22:08:39] <CIA-6>	* Page history for copied values now correctly reports once, and only reports copies done by special copy users
[22:08:39] <CIA-6>	* No duplication of collections.
[22:08:40] <CIA-6>	===
[22:08:42] <CIA-6>	+ (some dead code from preliminary investigation into stubs/pointers/etc ... still needs work)
[22:13:01] <alnokta>	-->How about we do away with usernames altogether and just give everyone
[22:13:02] <alnokta>	numbers? Works for the Borg... lol
[22:13:41] <Duesentrieb>	we already do
[22:13:54] <Duesentrieb>	the names are jsut a front, to confuse punny humans
[22:14:02] <alnokta>	:)
[22:14:18] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: go to your preference page to find out your number, citizen.#
[22:15:19] <alnokta>	lol yep 
[22:15:54] <alnokta>	perhaps make a choice in the preferences to make the number visible instead of the name ?
[22:17:47] <Duesentrieb>	visible where?
[22:18:06] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta write an extension
[22:18:14] <Duesentrieb>	but anyway, wikis are based on trust. trust can only be built if people recognize you. and names are much easier to remember than numbers
[22:18:18] <Duesentrieb>	i.e. it wouldn't work
[22:18:31] <NotACow>	Duesentrieb: have you seen what passes for a name on enwiki lately? :)
[22:18:44] <alnokta>	Duesentrieb, ppl use just a letter 
[22:18:50] <alnokta>	how that makes 
[22:18:51] <Duesentrieb>	NotACow: -_-_-_-_-_-_-_?
[22:19:19] <alnokta>	one use A B C D E F G H
[22:19:30] <alnokta>	thats not names
[22:19:40] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: not a problem, there are not a terrible lot of letters. User:D is very well known on de:wp for example
[22:20:04] <Duesentrieb>	anyway, you could write something to reuire a minumum length for the user name
[22:20:09] <Duesentrieb>	we already have this for passwords
[22:21:07] <alnokta>	two letters  like Ed works but incomprehensible letters isn't good imo
[22:21:32] *alnokta 	was just commenting on wikitech post
[22:22:20] <Duesentrieb>	i really don't care...  i'd be happy with having a user called 8 too, if he's a good contributor
[22:22:31] <Duesentrieb>	using numbers for everyone would suck though
[22:23:01] <RoanKattouw>	How about 13145 being a sysop and 13154 being a vandal?
[22:24:10] <alnokta>	;)
[22:24:21] <alnokta>	very sucking 
[22:26:16] <Duesentrieb>	how about RoanKattouw being a sysop and RoanКattouw being a vandal?
[22:26:22] <Duesentrieb>	(no that's not the same user name)
[22:26:29] <RoanKattouw>	No i18n stuff
[22:26:40] <Duesentrieb>	hard to filter
[22:26:49] <RoanKattouw>	RoanКattouw can't exist according to our wiki's username polic
[22:26:50] <RoanKattouw>	y
[22:27:03] <RoanKattouw>	Attempted impersonation of an established user
[22:27:06] <Duesentrieb>	how would you notice?
[22:27:12] <Duesentrieb>	well, sure, it's impersonation
[22:27:28] <Duesentrieb>	even if it wasn't, a vandal would be blocked.
[22:27:32] <RoanKattouw>	Duesentrieb by having a quiet wiki, quieter than WP
[22:27:37] <Duesentrieb>	 the point is finding & avoiding the case
[22:28:56] <RoanKattouw>	Duesentrieb we need a wfLatinize() function
[22:29:05] <RoanKattouw>	That converts К to K
[22:29:45] <cloakable>	o.o
[22:30:26] <Duesentrieb>	RoanKattouw: yes and no. a) it's very difficult to write to cover all unicode chars. and b) you would have to be able to normalize to any script, not just latin. some wikis are going to use no or little latin script at all.
[22:30:42] <alnokta>	Duesentrieb, yes but thats different than numbers
[22:30:46] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[22:30:52] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: sure
[22:32:03] <alnokta>	a reason why ppl don't like to use their real names because it backfires on them when a vandal insults them
[22:32:26] <woddf2>	I know receive the following error message:
[22:32:27] <woddf2>	 Fatal error: require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required '/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/wiki/includes/normal/UtfNormalUtil.php' (include_path='/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/wiki:/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/wiki/includes:/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/wiki/languages:.:/usr/share/php') in
[22:32:28] <woddf2>	/www/gigacities.net/w/l/a/wlair/htdocs/internal/wiki/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 26
[22:33:08] <RoanKattouw>	includes/normal/UtfNormalUtil.php
[22:33:13] <RoanKattouw>	Lemme check
[22:34:15] <RoanKattouw>	You're missing that file (includes/normal/UtfNormalUtil.php)
[22:34:27] <RoanKattouw>	And possibly others in the includes/normal dir
[22:34:33] <RoanKattouw>	Check that it even exists :P
[22:34:43] <RoanKattouw>	And get UtfNormalUtil.php from here http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/normal/UtfNormalUtil.php?view=co
[22:39:10] <alnokta>	what about that captcha system, you have a lot of different images defining some concepts.. bad evil happy sad etc... there is a box that asks the ppl if that drawing is a happy one or evil one..
[22:42:10] <Fenrisulven>	where do I find LocalSettings.php? its not in same directory as DefaultSettings.php
[22:42:32] <Duesentrieb>	Fenrisulven: one up
[22:42:38] <Duesentrieb>	installation root
[22:42:50] <alnokta>	Duesentrieb, what do you think?
[22:42:58] <Fenrisulven>	thank you, Duesentrieb
[22:43:08] <RoanKattouw>	woddf2 see my comments above about your missing includes/normal/UtfNormalUtil.php file
[22:43:13] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: about what?
[22:43:33] <alnokta>	Duesentrieb, <alnokta> what about that captcha system, you have a lot of different images defining some concepts.. bad evil happy sad etc... there is a box that asks the ppl if that drawing is a happy one or evil one..
[22:43:45] <Duesentrieb>	what about it?
[22:44:00] <Duesentrieb>	it's possible - do it.
[22:44:16] <alnokta>	as an alternative to words i mean
[22:44:19] <Duesentrieb>	ConfirmEdit can use different capotchas. it has a plugin interface for that
[22:44:56] <Duesentrieb>	there'S also the cats-and-dogs thing microsoft is doing now
[22:45:16] <Duesentrieb>	whatever floats your boat. they all suck in their own special way.
[22:45:58] <alnokta>	:) 
[22:46:04] <alnokta>	what cats and fogs?
[22:48:05] <NotACow>	foggy cats
[22:49:10] <alnokta>	*-f+d
[22:51:36] <NotACow>	captchas are all generally evil
[22:53:18] <alnokta>	NotACow, if you have a better alternative please suggest it 
[22:53:52] <alnokta>	i mentioned video captchas on wikitech days ago, a single reply saying its of no use 
[22:54:29] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: well, what are you actually trying to achieve?
[22:54:46] <Duesentrieb>	how is what we have not good enough? how would your way be better?
[22:55:09] <alnokta>	what way, i'm searching for better ways
[22:55:33] <Simetrical>	alnokta, I could swear there were at least two replies saying it was of no use.  Or no, maybe I was going to agree but didn't think I had anything to add.
[22:55:52] <RoanKattouw>	Video is just lots of images at 24 fps
[22:55:54] <alnokta>	as implied/said by tim we should devise new things 
[22:55:54] <Simetrical>	Simple video captchas are no more difficult to break than image captchas.
[22:56:07] <alnokta>	hello Simetrical 
[22:56:17] <Simetrical>	Certainly, but I have to admit some pessimism about your likelihood of success.
[22:56:17] <RoanKattouw>	So it's not as fundamentally different as you think
[22:56:39] <alnokta>	yes 
[22:56:44] <Simetrical>	Presumably places like Google and Yahoo! have spent a fair bit of manpower on this, and they haven't come up with anything better that I've seen.
[22:56:55] <Simetrical>	Of course that's no reason not to try, but still.
[22:57:10] <alnokta>	but that doesn't mean, that other ways could be invented 
[22:57:24] <RoanKattouw>	Maybe sound
[22:57:38] <RoanKattouw>	But at the same time we're improving speech recognition
[22:57:49] <RoanKattouw>	Which is currently better than image recognition
[22:58:00] <alnokta>	:)
[22:58:04] <RoanKattouw>	What we should really do is ask questions about the images themselves
[22:58:17] <RoanKattouw>	Like: what color does the merry-go-round have?
[22:58:25] <RoanKattouw>	How many swings are there?
[22:58:26] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, is it better than image recognition?
[22:58:33] <RoanKattouw>	I think so
[22:58:56] <RoanKattouw>	There is speech recognition that (after being 'trained' to recognize your voice) works pretty
[22:58:57] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, you need to construct a small set of questions in that case, which can be learned case-by-case.
[22:58:58] <RoanKattouw>	well
[22:59:26] <RoanKattouw>	Yup I know, if the Q&A list is public, that doesn't do much good
[22:59:27] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, and it needs to be completely different per-language, you can't even say "oh well everyone knows the Latin alphabet" like we say with image captchas.
[22:59:32] <RoanKattouw>	True
[22:59:40] <RoanKattouw>	So you need to translate those questions
[22:59:57] <Simetrical>	The advantage of word captchas is that you can programmatically generate the questions much more easily than you can programmatically answer them.
[23:00:04] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah
[23:00:30] <Simetrical>	It's easy to make questions that are hard for computers to answer, it's making them automatically that's difficult and fragile.
[23:00:32] <RoanKattouw>	But it's also easier to programmatically crack them
[23:00:58] <Simetrical>	No, it's trivial to programmatically crack anything that was human-generated, unless you have a vast labor pool to generate huge amounts of unique stuff.
[23:01:13] <RoanKattouw>	If the list of Q&A's is public, bots will just store it and try to just recognize the pic
[23:01:16] <alnokta>	what is the things human are good at while computers suck at?
[23:01:27] <RoanKattouw>	Being smart xD
[23:01:44] <alnokta>	err
[23:01:45] <Simetrical>	alnokta, not the right question.  What are problems that humans can solve easily, computers can't solve easily, *and* computers can generate easily?
[23:01:52] <Simetrical>	The answer to your question is much easier, and much less useful.
[23:02:01] <RoanKattouw>	You'd have to do stuff like "Which animal has four paws and barks?", but then you're back to Q&A lists
[23:02:16] <alnokta>	is there something computers cannot solve at all?
[23:02:29] <alnokta>	something that doesn't make any sense
[23:02:39] <Simetrical>	alnokta, sure, plenty of things.  Halting problem, discrete logarithm problem . . . but humans can't solve them either.
[23:02:49] <alnokta>	:(
[23:03:11] <alnokta>	that won't work, you need something , even people with low iq can solve easily
[23:03:35] <Simetrical>	Precisely.
[23:04:57] <Simetrical>	Anything computers can't *possibly* solve, humans probably can't either.  You need to look for things that are merely difficult for us to solve using computers, with present technology.
[23:05:01] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: well, computers are not very good at pattern recognition (what most captchas are about). and they generally lack cultural/contextual knowledge (you would need a *big* database of questions to make that work though).
[23:05:15] <RoanKattouw>	Not feasible
[23:05:27] <RoanKattouw>	If the DB is released in the public, bots will have it too
[23:05:34] <Duesentrieb>	yep
[23:05:46] <RoanKattouw>	So anything with Q&A's is fundamentally flawed
[23:06:07] <Duesentrieb>	any any attempt to build it using text mining would be just as good/bad as any method to crack it using the same technique
[23:06:13] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, cultural knowledge is a problem because not all humans necessarily have that, either.  I've seen cultural problems requiring recognition of, e.g., Bart Simpson.  The really universal things are pretty few and far between, when it comes to culture.
[23:06:29] <RoanKattouw>	That's also true
[23:06:43] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: yes, i know that. same is true for text captchas though.
[23:06:48] <alnokta>	but how good image recognition in etting what the state of the picture?
[23:06:55] <Duesentrieb>	(not everyone speaks english or recognizes latin script)
[23:07:15] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, we don't have to release the DB to the public, as such.  We don't release our captcha dictionary.  The problem is that it's going to have to be fairly small, and so it can be picked up by just requesting questions until you get a large chunk of it.
[23:07:23] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm you remember that thing earlier about RoanKattouw and a fake using a slightly different K
[23:07:32] <RoanKattouw>	You could use that kind of stuff
[23:07:47] <RoanKattouw>	But then, if you can delatinize() stuff you can also latinize() it...
[23:07:48] <Duesentrieb>	alnokta: if you write one especially for that, you can alwaqys break it. the question is: how does the number of cpu cycles to create the captcha relate to the cycles needed to break it?
[23:08:00] <RoanKattouw>	True
[23:08:02] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, but they have to recognize *some* script, if they're reading any wiki.  :)  That we only use Latin kind of sucks but is largely incidental.  (Except maybe for CJK . . . no idea how that works.)
[23:08:08] <Duesentrieb>	same goes for encryption, btw
[23:08:22] <alnokta>	Duesentrieb, don't know
[23:08:24] <RoanKattouw>	Yep but there's a session timeout obviously
[23:08:26] <alnokta>	but http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Smile.svg
[23:08:32] <Simetrical>	Encryption is easy (relatively) because the goal is to make it unbreakable by anyone, human or computer.
[23:08:39] <alnokta>	how the program will know if it is happy?
[23:08:44] <RoanKattouw>	They've only got like an hour or 30 mins to crack whatever they need to crack
[23:08:57] <RoanKattouw>	alnokta because it has that image in its database
[23:08:57] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, you can try to log in as many times as you want.
[23:09:16] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical true but you get a different captcha after your session times out
[23:09:20] <Simetrical>	alnokta, it doesn't know.  So it asks its human trainer, who gives it the correct answer.  It remembers that for the future.
[23:09:25] <RoanKattouw>	Which is usually after an hour
[23:09:31] <alnokta>	:(
[23:09:37] <RoanKattouw>	So bots have an hour to crack your captcha
[23:09:38] <alnokta>	that is really evil
[23:10:04] <Simetrical>	alnokta, in fact, then all it has to do is keep asking for new questions until it gets that one.  You can't stop them from asking for new questions, maybe the one you gave them is especially hard.
[23:10:09] <RoanKattouw>	Which means you need something that can't be cracked in an hour (or at least not by a reasonable computer)
[23:10:21] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical that's also true
[23:10:28] <RoanKattouw>	Means you need a pretty big DB
[23:10:29] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, well, yes, if it's a matter of sheer computing power.  AFAIK it's not.  The problem is having accurate algorithms to start with.
[23:10:56] <RoanKattouw>	That's true
[23:11:08] <Simetrical>	Greg or someone knows about this sort of stuff, not me, but I'm pretty sure there's no surefire way to crack a captcha even given infinite time, at present (other than repeated guessing).
[23:11:19] <RoanKattouw>	But there are things that we don't (currently) have good algs for, so we require lots of PC time
[23:11:26] <RoanKattouw>	I'm sure there is
[23:11:38] <RoanKattouw>	You can also crack MD5 hashes if you have enough time
[23:11:48] <Simetrical>	Only by brute force, i.e., repeated guessing.
[23:11:51] <Duesentrieb>	MD5 doesn't even take that long
[23:11:56] <RoanKattouw>	Brute-force them, "only" 2^32 different hashes are possible
[23:12:01] <RoanKattouw>	No I know MD5 is flawed
[23:12:08] <Simetrical>	It's 2^128.
[23:12:09] <RoanKattouw>	Bad example, s/MD5/SHA-1/g
[23:12:20] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[23:12:25] <Simetrical>	And you can't do it in any feasible timeframe.  You can generate collisions, though.
[23:12:28] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah, 32 hex chars
[23:12:31] <Simetrical>	But that's because of an algorithmic flaw.
[23:12:46] <RoanKattouw>	True, read about that
[23:13:05] <Simetrical>	SHA1 is breakable by some supercomputers today, or that will exist in the near future, again because of an algorithmic flaw.
[23:13:12] <Simetrical>	Brute force is not practical for any widely-used hash.
[23:13:36] <RoanKattouw>	"Breaking" a hash means finding a way to crack it that's faster than brute force
[23:13:43] <RoanKattouw>	Dunno if SHA-1 has been broken yet
[23:13:45] <RoanKattouw>	MD5 has
[23:15:01] <Simetrical>	SHA1 has a preimage attack, MD5 does not.  MD5 only has a collision attack.
[23:15:11] <RoanKattouw>	Anyway, I'm going to sleep, and actually so should Duesentrieb ;)
[23:15:15] <Simetrical>	Although that attack is more feasible at present than the SHA1 preimage attack.
[23:15:17] <RoanKattouw>	As he's in the same time zone as I am
[23:15:18] <Simetrical>	(This is all IIRC)
[23:15:24] <RoanKattouw>	My stuff too
[23:15:35] <RoanKattouw>	Anyway the point is you gotta exploit that one hour limit
[23:16:09] <RoanKattouw>	If you have cookieless sessions, that one hour limit also means you can't get a fresh captcha for an hour
[23:16:29] <RoanKattouw>	Anyway, off to bed
[23:17:06] <Simetrical>	You can always get a fresh captcha, I hope.  Since some captchas are randomly hard to read.
[23:43:47] <CIA-6>	03erik * r26713 10/trunk/tools/planet/en/config.ini: +martinp23
[23:45:22] <CIA-6>	03erik * r26714 10/trunk/tools/planet/de/config.ini: +Thoken