[00:02:13] <danimo>	darkcode: yes, but not sure what causes the rewrite rule goes wrong
[00:04:07] <darkcode>	+ is used as part of a regular expression, so guess the rewrite engine protects against accidentally misinterpreting it by encoding other occurrences of it, whatever the reason the solution is to use Aliasing instead
[00:04:17] <AzaTht>	argh, why can't I use backlinks in a generator? :(
[00:05:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Reorganize Special:Specialpages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10457  (10gangleri)
[00:05:22] <darkcode>	+ is also interpreted as a space
[00:06:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Installing DeletedContributions extension - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10464  (10gangleri)
[00:08:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) New special page to display deleted contributions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10525  (10gangleri)
[00:10:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Show Deleted Contributions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10251  (10gangleri)
[00:12:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Showing deleted contribution of a user to sysops - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10492  +comment (10gangleri)
[00:12:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) New special page to display deleted contributions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10525  (10gangleri)
[00:13:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special page to list deleted contributions of a user - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1699  +comment (10gangleri)
[00:13:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special page to list deleted contributions of a user - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1699  +comment (10gangleri)
[00:17:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Formatting wrong in enhanced recent changes/ watchlist when RTL text is the last in the edit summary (not in IE) - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7885  (10gangleri)
[00:21:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) transwiki bug and GFDL - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6525  (10gangleri)
[00:30:23] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) main focus of Special:Contributions is misleading - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3628  +comment (10gangleri)
[00:32:20] <timofonic>	Hello
[00:32:24] <timofonic>	(again)
[00:32:45] <timofonic>	Well, a retard I registered recently if vandalizing my wiki. How to delete or ban him?
[00:32:58] <timofonic>	I'm very tired of his stupid jokes
[00:33:50] <Ashfire908>	to ban you should be able to do it from their userpage
[00:34:09] <Ashfire908>	erm
[00:34:19] <Ashfire908>	via their conbritubitions
[00:39:37] <MrZ-man>	Special:Blockip
[00:45:22] <AtharHameed>	Hi. Has anyone used a rich text editor with MediaWiki? Which one works best?
[00:47:55] <Duesentrieb>	!wysiwyg
[00:47:55] --mwbot--	What You See Is What You Get editors allow you to create articles and see the text formatting without needing to Show Preview. A list of wysiwyg editor extensions may be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:WYSIWYG_extensions>.
[00:49:07] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, thanks but IPs change... :)
[00:49:14] <timofonic>	Ashfire908, ok thanks
[00:49:38] <MrZ-man>	Blockip is just the general blocking page for IPs and registered users
[00:50:00] <Duesentrieb>	the name is misleading :(
[00:50:01] <timofonic>	Any way of do something like this but with a custom content? Look at this, I mean something like the "This article or section": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDIbox
[00:50:30] <Duesentrieb>	timofonic: it's just a template
[00:50:40] <Duesentrieb>	the one used on wikipedia is quite complex though
[00:50:45] <Duesentrieb>	!templates
[00:50:45] --mwbot--	For more information about templates, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates>. The most common issues with templates copied from Wikipedia can be fixed by installing ParserFunctions<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions> and HTML Tidy<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy>.
[00:51:02] <MrZ-man>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ambox
[00:51:24] <MrZ-man>	but to use it on another wiki you would also need to copy some CSS
[00:51:25] <timofonic>	I just want to put "This article/page is translated from <source>. you can find the original page <here>""
[00:51:26] <Duesentrieb>	yep
[00:51:31] <Duesentrieb>	nice work that one, actually
[00:51:43] <timofonic>	Duesentrieb, ok :)
[00:52:01] <Duesentrieb>	timofonic: you can make templates with whatever content you like. making them a) reusable and b) pretty is more complicated :)
[00:52:40] <timofonic>	Duesentrieb, I have no clue about HTML stuff and it seems this can make things more difficult :P
[00:52:51] <Duesentrieb>	for making stuff pretty, yes.
[00:53:00] <Duesentrieb>	for that, you need a little html, and quite a bit of css
[00:53:11] <Duesentrieb>	for writing *some* template, you don't need html
[00:53:24] <Duesentrieb>	read the help page
[00:53:25] <Ashfire908>	This {{{3|article or section}}} is translated from {{{1}}}, you can find the original page [{{{2}}}|here]
[00:53:27] <timofonic>	Duesentrieb, that's rocket science to me. I just want a  "This article/page is translated from <source>. you can find the original page <here>"
[00:53:30] <timofonic>	Ashfire908, thanks :)
[00:53:54] <Duesentrieb>	timofonic: the help page is rocket sience? really?
[00:54:15] <Ashfire908>	or if the <source> is a link you can do tha same thing
[00:54:26] <timofonic>	Duesentrieb, err I mean HTML and CSS
[00:54:43] <Ashfire908>	and if <here> is internal add a [ ]
[00:54:50] <Duesentrieb>	timofonic: go to the page Template:Hello and write "Hello World" on that page. go to some other page, and write {{Hello}}
[00:54:57] <Duesentrieb>	simple enough
[00:55:09] *Ashfire908 	is away now
[00:55:11] <timofonic>	Ashfire908, <here> is an external link and <source> too :)
[00:56:47] <Ashfire908>	This {{{3|article or section}}} is translated from [{{{2}}} {{{1}}}], you can find the original page [{{{2}}}|here]
[00:56:50] <Ashfire908>	erm
[00:56:53] <Ashfire908>	This {{{3|article or section}}} is translated from [{{{2}}} {{{1}}}], you can find the original page [{{{2}}} here]
[00:57:04] <Ashfire908>	that work for you?
[00:57:16] <Ashfire908>	:)
[00:57:56] <timofonic>	Ashfire908, wait I'm testing this :)
[00:58:04] <MrZ-man>	if you called that Template:Translated, you would use it on a page as {{Translated|name of source|source URL|section}}
[00:58:11] <timofonic>	Ashfire908, but thanks for all
[00:58:20] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, thanks :)
[00:59:02] <MrZ-man>	and replace "section" with whatever you are describing, or you can omit that one and it will give "article or section" by default
[01:00:14] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) users should be able to see / review all the contributions they made; including the deleted ones - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12524 major; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (gangleri)
[01:02:52] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) users should be able to see / review all the contributions they made; including the deleted ones - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12524  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[01:03:40] <wikibugs>	03(CLOSED) zh-hant centralnotice text shows up as grey box when using variant=zh-hant - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12511  (10kbblogger)
[01:03:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10daniel)
[01:03:54] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, {{Translated|nameofsite|main url|url to the original content}} not works. I did somethng wrong? :P
[01:04:29] <MrZ-man>	did you create Template:Translated?
[01:04:58] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, This article or section is translated from [{{{2}}} {{{1}}}], you can find the original page [{{{2}}} here]
[01:06:42] <MrZ-man>	Try This article or section is translated from [{{{2}}} {{{1}}}], you can find the original page [{{{3}}} here]
[01:07:31] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, ok, going to try
[01:07:35] <MrZ-man>	what is it doing wrong when you try to use it?
[01:11:28] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, it did "This the-full-url-of-original-article is translated from linked-site-with-the-correct-specified-named, you can find the original page here (and links to the url of the main site)
[01:11:39] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, going to test it, sorry I was looking at other thig
[01:12:56] <timofonic>	MrZ-man, it shows OK now. THanks a lot :)
[01:13:04] <MrZ-man>	no problem
[01:17:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) users should be able to see / review all the contributions they made; including the deleted ones - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12524  (10gangleri)
[01:21:10] <Duesentrieb>	n8
[01:22:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Spam blacklist match should show error above edit box - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9416  (10gtisza)
[01:34:24] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) users should be able to see / review all the contributions they made; including the deleted ones - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12524  +comment (10gangleri)
[01:40:57] <Splarka>	hmm
[01:44:29] <MZMcBride>	gangleri: in a fight between a developer and a user, the developer _always_ wins
[01:45:29] <AaronSchulz>	MZMcBride: not if other devs think otherwise too
[01:46:05] *MZMcBride 	realizes; was quoting from somewhere...
[01:46:36] <MZMcBride>	and more making the point that you should avoid coarse remarks when discussing bugs
[01:47:02] <TimLaqua>	hard-headed end users drive change.  they always have.
[01:47:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Installing DeletedContributions extension - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10464  (10gangleri)
[01:47:32] <MZMcBride>	TimLaqua: did you read the comment on that particular bug? not very nice
[01:47:38] <TimLaqua>	i did not
[01:47:42] *TimLaqua 	takes a look
[01:47:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special page to list deleted contributions of a user - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1699  (10gangleri)
[01:48:02] <TimLaqua>	yikes.  bad form.
[01:51:13] <Splarka>	hmm, oddness
[01:51:41] <Splarka>	{{REVISIONTIMESTAMP}} will display the time of the last edit, but will be updated to display the time of the last null edit, upon performing a null edit
[01:51:56] <Splarka>	but &action=purge will put it back to the time of the last actual edit
[01:53:05] <MZMcBride>	those revision magic words are goofy; tim tried to remove them but brion objected...
[01:54:38] *Skizzerz 	never knew they existed...
[01:55:53] <Splarka>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friezetemplate   should show two timestamps at the bottom, until ?action=purge is applied
[01:59:44] <Splarka>	hmm
[02:01:37] <AaronSchulz>	Splarka: ugh, that is odd
[02:03:16] <Splarka>	this could probably be fixed by using $timestamp instead of getTouched()?
[02:03:27] <iam8up>	i'm trying to download this extension: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount
[02:03:35] <Splarka>	er
[02:03:38] <iam8up>	the first step is to download it from svn - where is the svn?
[02:03:39] <Splarka>	getTimestamp()
[02:03:51] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org
[02:04:11] <Skizzerz>	iam8up: in particular you want http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/
[02:04:25] <iam8up>	can i ask how you navigated to that so quickly?
[02:04:43] <Skizzerz>	I clicked the link in the infobox on the page :)
[02:05:12] <iam8up>	...wow do i feel dumb...
[02:05:16] <iam8up>	good looking out =)
[02:05:40] <AaronSchulz>	case 'revisiontimestamp':
[02:05:41] <AaronSchulz>					return $this->getRevisionTimestamp();
[02:05:46] <Skizzerz>	don't worry, I was once like that too :P
[02:05:50] <AaronSchulz>	well, I guess that is the null edit's timestamp
[02:06:59] <iam8up>	Skizzerz - would you be able to tell me what the name of the extension is that requires a preview before a save? it is installed on mediawiki.org
[02:07:13] <Skizzerz>	it's javascript IIRC
[02:07:47] <Skizzerz>	iam8up: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js -- the part where it says "force preview for anons"
[02:08:11] <Skizzerz>	just copy that to your wiki's MediaWiki:Common.js
[02:08:44] <iam8up>	uhh hopefully you know a little bit of js to help me - how can i change   if (wgUserName != null || wgAction != "edit") return; to any user?
[02:08:54] <iam8up>	just make it   if (wgAction != "edit") return; ?
[02:09:13] <Skizzerz>	no
[02:09:38] <Skizzerz>	er, wait... that would work
[02:09:47] <Skizzerz>	but it would require EVERY user to force preview
[02:09:51] *Splarka 	snickers
[02:09:55] <iam8up>	that's what i'm looking for!
[02:10:03] <Splarka>	you might try...
[02:10:04] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDefaultUserOptions
[02:10:10] <Splarka>	and setting "previewonfirst" 
[02:10:12] *Skizzerz 	, unlike splarka, fails at javascript
[02:10:17] <Splarka>	(whatever that does)
[02:10:20] <iam8up>	my users seem to LOVE to change one or two words/letters and save so the history log is really hard to use
[02:10:30] <Skizzerz>	Splarka: that displays the show preview thing when you first click the edit tab/link
[02:10:39] <Skizzerz>	it doesn't force the preview :)
[02:10:54] <Splarka>	well, that's silly
[02:10:56] <iam8up>	ya that wouldn't do what i'm wanting
[02:11:07] <iam8up>	what i want is for everyone to preview their edits before they save and write to the history
[02:11:10] <Skizzerz>	so the javascript is what you need to do
[02:11:17] <Skizzerz>	*need to use
[02:13:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add {{revisiontime:}}/{{lastrevision:}} colon/ parser function or {{REVISIONtimeformat|<pagename> }} functionality to current magic words - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6092  +comment (10herd)
[02:13:58] <iam8up>	i put that js code in the common.js file but i think it needs something to apply it to the pages, it doesn't seem to forcing me to use the preview before a save
[02:14:32] <Skizzerz>	did you clear your browser cache?
[02:14:34] <MZMcBride>	iam8up: bypass your browser cache
[02:14:51] <Splarka>	AaronSchulz: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6092#c17
[02:14:54] <iam8up>	let me try it in exploder..i don't think the clear cache works right in firefox
[02:15:08] <Skizzerz>	firefox is Shift + refresh
[02:15:22] <Skizzerz>	(although ctrl + f5 works too IIRC)
[02:15:29] <Splarka>	or just ctrl-r in FF
[02:15:31] <iam8up>	sweet, it is working
[02:15:40] <Splarka>	or clicking 'reload' sometimes clears the js cache efficiently too
[02:15:44] <iam8up>	FF = control but IE = shift
[02:15:45] <Splarka>	but not back/forward
[02:15:47] <AaronSchulz>	Splarka: working on it
[02:15:52] <AaronSchulz>	I see where the problem is
[02:15:53] <Splarka>	AA: sweet
[02:16:06] <iam8up>	i did the whole ctrl/shift/delete and then followed it with a control/refresh
[02:16:13] <iam8up>	firefox just holds onto cache like no other...
[02:16:23] <Splarka>	nah, if you want a really evil cache...
[02:16:24] <iam8up>	IIRC firefox holds dns cache until restarted
[02:16:30] <Splarka>	opera, with favicons
[02:16:39] <Splarka>	or firefox with favicons loaded via a 302 redirect
[02:16:43] <iam8up>	ya but who cares about favicons?
[02:16:48] <Splarka>	some people do ^_^
[02:16:52] *Skizzerz 	does
[02:17:01] *Splarka 	had to help people with favicon caches at wikia all the time
[02:17:14] <Splarka>	price of having /wiki/Image:Favicon.ico uploadable
[02:17:18] <iam8up>	firefox doesn't save them for bookmarks, so you have to load the page for them to show up, but at that point they're not great
[02:19:49] <iam8up>	wait i fucked up a minute ago: Mozilla / Firefox / Safari: hold down Shift while clicking Reload, or press Ctrl-Shift-R (Cmd-Shift-R on Apple Mac); IE: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5;
[02:19:58] <iam8up>	per the mediawiki.org common.js
[02:20:01] <MZMcBride>	firefox simply requires holding down shift and pressing the refresh button
[02:24:41] <iam8up>	that's what they say...
[02:24:53] <MZMcBride>	that's right; i do it all the time
[02:25:05] *Skizzerz 	does too
[02:25:13] *Skizzerz 	huggles firefox
[02:27:47] *Skizzerz 	smacks himself repeatedly over the head
[02:28:26] <Skizzerz>	I wasn't getting the correct form data because I was using $wgRequest->getCheck() instead of $wgRequest->getVal() >_<
[02:39:54] <iam8up>	if i run the query CREATE TABLE /*$wgDBprefix*/account_requests will it look like CREATE TABLE account_requests command wise?
[02:50:31] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29311 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: Don't compare text twice
[02:58:52] <TimLaqua>	iam8up: yeah.
[02:59:12] <iam8up>	TimLaqua - ok, thanks for the note =)
[02:59:28] <iam8up>	hate running :s with those funky symbols =/
[02:59:41] <iam8up>	escaping this and that and another symbol...blah
[03:16:50] <iam8up>	i'm trying to install the extension:confirmaccount but i got [Sat Jan 05 22:15:43 2008] [error] [client 24.x.x.x] PHP Fatal error:  Call to undefined function wfLoadExtensionMessages() in /var/www/html/wiki/extensions/ConfirmAccount/SpecialConfirmAccount.php on line 83, referer: http://my.domain.com/index.php?title=Main_Page in my error_log - anyone know what causes this?
[03:17:22] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29312 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Parser.php: 
[03:17:22] <CIA-40>	Revision timestamp comes out as the current time when no rev ID is given (like
[03:17:22] <CIA-40>	the first time prepareTextForEdit() is called). This works for new revisions,
[03:17:22] <CIA-40>	but is wrong for null edits. Needs to be flagged so that editUpdates() knows to
[03:17:22] <CIA-40>	parse after rev ID given so that it can get the last timestamp.
[03:18:38] <MZMcBride>	iam8up: did you put SpecialConfirmAccount.php on your server?
[03:18:44] *AaronSchulz 	can't stop drinking Dannon's smoothies
[03:18:55] <TimLaqua>	wfLoadExtensionMessages is 1.11+
[03:18:59] <iam8up>	MZMcBride - ConfirmAccount/SpecialConfirmAccount.php ?
[03:19:22] <TimLaqua>	iam8up: either upgrade to MW 1.11 or grab a copy of ConfirmAccount from the 1.10 branch
[03:20:08] <iam8up>	ahh i see, i'll upgrade to 1.11
[03:20:13] <AaronSchulz>	however updated the message loader didn't bump the required version listing
[03:20:32] <TimLaqua>	AaronSchulz: true.
[03:20:50] <iam8up>	ahh i knew i'd seen aaron schulz before...i was reading it on some mediawiki related page and recognized that name...
[03:21:15] <iam8up>	but anyways...i don't understand what you just said =/
[03:21:16] <TimLaqua>	AaronSchulz: siebrand ran through and updated most of the extensions to use the new loader, but didn't update the description pages on mediawiki
[03:21:40] <MZMcBride>	well that's not nice
[03:21:54] <TimLaqua>	;-)  i was quite surprised when my own extensions didn't work on my wiki installs
[03:23:19] <TimLaqua>	dunno - i'm comfortable w/ current extension revisions only being compatible w/ the current MW release as long as brion keeps branching extensions - but I suppose we should also list links to branched versions of the extension
[03:24:03] <MZMcBride>	or at least make it clear on their description pages
[03:27:16] <TimLaqua>	honestly, I don't really understand the new loader.  like I would have no idea how to implement it.
[03:28:22] <TimLaqua>	siebrand: is that wgLoadExtensionMessages() conversion workflow documented somewhere?
[03:41:30] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29313 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ConfirmAccount_body.php: Don't refer to missing message
[03:44:39] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29314 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ConfirmAccount_body.php: Use 'target' param
[03:50:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Section edit links for transcluded templates are not affected by < noinclude> or <includeonly> - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6563  major->normal; +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[03:53:42] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29315 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ConfirmAccount_body.php: Use wfEmptyMsg()
[03:54:33] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29316 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ConfirmAccount_body.php: syntax error
[04:06:48] *Werdnus 	waves
[04:08:05] <Werdnus>	hmmm.. no brion
[04:08:32] <Splarka>	California sank
[04:08:49] <Werdnus>	I hope not
[04:08:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[04:08:56] <Werdnus>	I'm /IN/ California in a week.
[04:09:07] *Werdnus 	is probably fairly close to Simetrical|away, too.
[04:11:02] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) [[MediaWiki:Summary-preview]] =?UTF-8?Q?=20should=20be=20shown=20also?= =?UTF-8?Q?=20with=20=C2=AB=20Show=20changes?==?UTF-8?Q?=20=C2=BB?= - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12525 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (gangleri)
[04:21:16] *Werdnus 	pings Simetrical back.
[04:21:20] <Werdnus>	Simetrical: where are you in NYC?
[04:21:25] <Simetrical>	 * Ping reply from Werdnus: ? second(s) ,
[04:21:29] <Simetrical>	^^ ???
[04:21:35] <Werdnus>	I'm on CGI:IRC..
[04:21:37] <Simetrical>	Werdnus, uptown Manhattan, Washington Heights.
[04:21:38] <Werdnus>	proobably why
[04:21:54] <Simetrical>	I don't see why CGI shouldn't respond to pings.  And if it didn't, I should get a timeout error.
[04:23:17] <Werdnus>	Simetrical: ah. I probably drove past you on a ferry tour. I'm staying in midtown manhattan, a few blocks from times square
[04:23:17] *Werdnus 	shrugs.
[04:23:17] <Werdnus>	hmm.. nothing showing up
[04:23:20] <Werdnus>	Simetrical: ah. I probably drove past you on a ferry tour. I'm staying in midtown manhattan, a few blocks from times square
[04:23:32] <Werdnus>	eek, something wasn't replying
[04:23:39] <Werdnus>	and eek, Splarka pings me, too
[04:23:46] <Splarka>	oh you like it
[04:23:49] <Splarka>	[Werdnus PING reply]: 32secs
[04:24:01] <Werdnus>	*** Simetrical requested CTCP PING from Werdnus: 
[04:24:01] <Werdnus>	*** Splarka requested CTCP PING from Werdnus: 1199593325
[04:24:02] <Werdnus>	probably relevant: 
[04:24:18] <Werdnus>	one had a number afterwards (a ping sent-time, I presume), the other didn't.
[04:24:39] <Splarka>	xchat funny business?
[04:24:49] <Splarka>	ping me, Simetrical
[04:24:55] <Werdnus>	proobably
[04:25:01] <Werdnus>	Simetrical: I'm leaving tomorrow, though..
[04:28:43] *Werdnus 	wonders where everyone went
[04:29:08] <Simetrical>	Away, away!
[04:29:21] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) User group detection from user pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12526 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (MZMcBride)
[04:29:31] *Werdnus 	is not that ugly.
[04:29:46] <Werdnus>	and I'm leaving tomorrow, anyway
[04:29:52] <Werdnus>	DOES THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY?
[04:30:00] *Werdnus 	retreats to his asylum
[04:30:08] *Splarka 	misses werd
[04:30:23] <MZMcBride>	where are you headed?
[04:30:30] <Werdnus>	aspen, colorado
[04:31:07] <MZMcBride>	very nice
[04:32:36] <ramza3>	I just got onto the media wiki train; I want to setup multiple media wiki "pages
[04:32:38] <ramza3>	oops
[04:33:02] <ramza3>	I just got onto the media wiki train; I want to setup multiple media wiki pages/sites on the same box.  Should they all use the same database
[04:34:33] <MZMcBride>	ramza3: sharing the user tables can be nice; doesn't require registering on multiple wikis
[04:36:33] <iam8up>	this is such a ridiculous problem...i went into ~iam8up and did an svn co for the 1.11 mediawiki files, if i do a mv -f /home/iam8up/phase3 /var/www/html/wiki i'm getting error: mv: cannot move `/home/iam8up/phase3/tests' to a subdirectory of itself, `/var/www/html/wiki/tests'
[04:36:55] <iam8up>	can anyone explain this? someone in ##linux was finally able to reproduce the error but the files within the source subdirs were moved; mine are not
[04:37:56] <Simetrical>	iam8up, are you sure you don't have any hard links or similar weirdness?
[04:38:04] <Simetrical>	iam8up, I'd just delete and check out in the directory directly.
[04:38:23] <Simetrical>	ramza3, it depends on how integrated you want the wikis to be.  You should in any case probably share all the PHP files.
[04:38:33] <iam8up>	if i go to /var/www/html/wiki and perform svn co i'll just get /var/www/html/wiki/phase3
[04:38:48] <iam8up>	but no, no hard/softlinks i'm sure
[04:39:00] <ramza3>	Simetrical, it seems like a better approach for me to just have multiple pages as opposed to multiple wikis
[04:39:11] <Simetrical>	iam8up, svn help co doesn't tell you how to name it nicely?
[04:39:24] <Simetrical>	ramza3, it depends on what you need.  I can't tell you that.
[04:39:28] *Simetrical 	looks at svn help co
[04:39:47] <iam8up>	checkout URL[@REV]... [PATH]
[04:39:59] <iam8up>	svn co http:/sldkjf/ . then?
[04:41:13] <Simetrical>	iam8up, mkdir foo && svn co http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/api foo checks out the files into foo/, doesn't create an api/ directory, when I try it.
[04:42:12] <Simetrical>	iam8up, adding "." to the end should work, yeah.
[04:42:22] <iam8up>	ok
[04:57:58] <Dantman|Coding>	I see MediaWiki is using both __construct and the name of the class for the constructor...
[04:58:35] <Dantman|Coding>	Would it be a good idea to go through the alpha, change them all to one form, and submit it as a patch?
[04:59:05] <jdm64>	I can't get <math> to work! "Failed to parse (Can't write to or create math temp directory): "  (using 1.11.0)
[05:04:34] *Dantman|Coding 	wishes php 5.3.0 was out...
[05:10:01] <Splarka>	hmm
[05:10:51] <Splarka>	it is not too hard to get the next non-redirect page alphabetically, with the api, eg: "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=allpages&apfilterredir=nonredirects&aplimit=1&apfrom=" + encodeURIComponent(wgTitle);
[05:10:59] <Splarka>	any idea how to get the previous? heh
[05:11:15] <Dantman|Coding>	lol
[05:12:25] <Dantman|Coding>	^_^ You could always suggest a &order=reverse
[05:12:36] <Splarka>	apdir          - The direction in which to list
[05:12:39] <Splarka>	but it does nothing
[05:12:45] <Dantman|Coding>	O_o
[05:12:45] <Splarka>	that I can see, anyway
[05:12:58] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php
[05:13:03] <Splarka>	under * list=allpages (ap) *
[05:14:53] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQueryAllpages.php?r1=24694&r2=26725
[05:15:02] <Splarka>	hmm
[05:16:41] <Simetrical>	Dantman|Coding, we may as well use __construct() consistently if PHP really treats them interchangeably (which it seems to, i.e., calls to ClassName() get rewritten to __construct() if that's defined and vice versa).
[05:16:59] <Dantman|Coding>	Yup
[05:17:48] <Dantman|Coding>	I suppose I'll change those once I've done enough of my current extension...
[05:18:21] <Dantman|Coding>	Its still to bad static:: doesn't work untill php 5.3.0 though, that would have been quite nice.
[05:18:28] <Simetrical>	Hmm?
[05:18:42] <Dantman|Coding>	http://ca.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.late-static-bindings.php
[05:18:50] <Dantman|Coding>	If you want an example...
[05:19:03] <Dantman|Coding>	If we were to say, subclass the current Revision class.
[05:19:33] <Dantman|Coding>	We'd half to redefine every method which called Revision:: or self:: or else those would still call Revision
[05:19:36] <Dantman|Coding>	However...
[05:19:52] <Dantman|Coding>	If we were to use static:: the inherited functions would be used instead
[05:20:32] <Dantman|Coding>	T_T Without it TransArticle is part ugly hack...
[05:21:18] <ramza3>	is there a config/LocalSettings.php?
[05:21:26] <Simetrical>	ramza3, shouldn't be . . .
[05:21:46] <ramza3>	Simetrical, that is what the docs say, hmm
[05:21:55] <Dantman|Coding>	It's autogenerated
[05:22:04] <Dantman|Coding>	You need to run the config/ script first
[05:22:19] <ramza3>	"Move the config/LocalSettings.php file to the parent directory, then follow  this link to your wiki."
[05:22:34] <Simetrical>	Well, maybe then.
[05:22:45] <Simetrical>	Hmm, why doesn't it just create in ..?
[05:22:53] <Simetrical>	Well, in that case there should be, anyway, I guess.
[05:23:21] <ramza3>	Simetrical, I wonder if it didn't create it because of my permissions,
[05:23:33] <Simetrical>	It should have complained.
[05:23:36] <Dantman|Coding>	Simetrical: config/ is the one you're supposed to chmod to be writable by the server...
[05:24:03] <Dantman|Coding>	The LocalSettings.php is created there to avoid needing to add unsave chmod to the MediaWiki files.
[05:24:07] <Simetrical>	Mmm.
[05:24:39] <Dantman|Coding>	Otherwise you could code a evil extension to edit someone's includes/Database.php to save all queries to another server or something...
[05:30:03] <ramza3>	Simetrical, why do you think it didn't create the LocalSettings.php (I did the chmod a+w); php/apache server is running as root
[05:30:27] <Simetrical>	ramza3, dunno.
[05:30:33] <Simetrical>	You shouldn't run Apache as root, though.
[05:30:39] <Simetrical>	That might screw stuff up, and is bad practice anyway.
[05:31:00] <Simetrical>	Dantman|Coding, if you have an extension running already, you can just execute the evil code directly.  :)
[05:31:41] <Dantman|Coding>	lol ^_^ ya
[05:32:21] <ramza3>	Simetrical, actually, might be apache
[05:32:23] <ramza3>	apache user
[05:33:35] <Simetrical>	Who in God's name decided it was a good idea to have Unicode input in GNOME use Shift-Ctrl-E, D for various things when Shift-Ctrl-W is quit?
[05:33:44] <Dantman|Coding>	heh
[05:35:49] <Simetrical>	Actually, who decided extra shortcuts were needed to quit anyway?
[05:35:59] <Simetrical>	This is the reason I removed the logout shortcut from MediaWiki.
[05:36:10] <plantguy>	maybe the guy running apache as root?
[05:36:11] <Simetrical>	I hit Alt-O too many times when I mean Alt-P.
[05:36:39] <Splarka>	heh
[05:37:09] <TimLaqua_away>	is anyone in particular working on the API?  or it's just like the rest of the core?
[05:37:26] <Simetrical>	TimLaqua, it tends to have its own group of people, most of the core devs don't touch it.
[05:37:43] <Simetrical>	And most of the API people don't mess much with core, except for benefit of the API.
[05:38:16] <TimLaqua>	k - I took a look at the Splarka's issue where apdir=descending wasn't being handled and fixed it - should I submit a bug/patch?  or just commit the change?
[05:39:12] *Splarka 	cheers a bit from the stands
[05:43:15] <TimLaqua>	so.... commit it is...
[05:43:19] <TimLaqua>	;-)
[05:44:02] <Splarka>	it'd be nice if, for lists like this, rather than specifying a start, limit, and then direction...
[05:44:10] <CIA-40>	03tlaqua * r29317 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ (ApiQueryAllCategories.php ApiQueryAllpages.php): * Fixed check for sort order ('ZtoA' is not an allowed parameter)
[05:44:11] <Splarka>	one could also define a middle=, or dir=both
[05:44:55] <Splarka>	and get the result buffered on either side, with (limit-1)/2 of the start/middle
[05:45:08] <Splarka>	mmm, pipe dreams
[05:45:15] <TimLaqua>	;-)  feel free to submit a enhancement request
[05:45:36] <TimLaqua>	apdir=descending should work now.
[05:47:32] *Splarka 	gives TimLaqua an M&M
[05:51:45] <Dantman|Coding>	Ack... no wonder the other wiki stuff isn't working in TransArticle... bleh... Forgot to add the wiki id to the calls to TransRevision after I created it...
[05:52:05] <Dantman|Coding>	T_T And I'm missing some of the altered tableName calls
[06:04:15] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) More prominent Simple English Wikipedia Link on en. wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12527 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (kevinjduke)
[06:07:37] <Dantman|Coding>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/Article_8php-source.html#l03046
[06:07:41] <domas>	hehhe
[06:07:51] <domas>	kids need more prominent links in quantum mechanic pages
[06:07:52] <Dantman|Coding>	Anyone know why array( 'templatelinks' ) is used instead of 'templatelinks'
[06:07:56] <domas>	and more understandable pages on pokemons
[06:12:54] <Simetrical|away>	Dantman|Coding, probably there's no difference.  The argument is generally an array because it can consist of multiple tables, but if there's only one table you can probably leave out the array wrapper.
[06:13:21] <Dantman|Coding>	I know.... which is why it's strange to see that in core
[06:13:32] <Simetrical|away>	Makes no difference, it's stylistic.
[06:13:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) More prominent Simple English Wikipedia Link on en.wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12527  +comment (10gangleri)
[06:13:45] <Dantman|Coding>	Bah... it's violating styles... it
[06:13:54] <Dantman|Coding>	's the only place in there that it's done that way
[06:17:15] <Simetrical|away>	Plenty of places it's done that way.
[06:17:18] *Simetrical|away 	goes to bed
[06:27:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) More prominent Simple English Wikipedia Link on en.wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12527  (10kevinjduke)
[06:27:24] <ramza3>	there aren't any memory issue with say having 4-5 different "wiki" directories/applications?
[06:29:33] <domas>	ramza3: more efficient to use single directory, at least for scripts
[06:29:40] <domas>	in terms of APC caching, etc
[06:51:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10michaeldaly)
[06:55:13] <Ashfire908>	where are the system messages stored?
[06:55:29] <domas>	mediawiki: namespace
[06:55:32] <domas>	Special:Allmessages
[06:56:01] <Ashfire908>	no i mean where in the database
[06:56:50] <Splarka>	same place as articles in other namespaces
[06:57:09] <MZMcBride>	mm... are they non-existent first?
[06:57:15] <Splarka>	unless you mean the defaults, which are in /languages/messages in .php files
[06:57:32] <Ashfire908>	because i was setting up a mediawiki site right where a old one just was (by file location and database name) and the site notice from te old wiki is in the new one
[06:57:46] <Ashfire908>	but... it's not in the database of the new one
[06:57:57] <Ashfire908>	and the page doesn't even exist!
[06:58:00] <Splarka>	are any of the articles transferred over?
[06:58:00] <MZMcBride>	it's in LocalSettings, i think
[06:58:31] <Ashfire908>	no
[06:58:37] <Ashfire908>	clean install
[06:59:26] <MZMcBride>	you used a new LocalSettings.php?
[06:59:58] <Splarka>	also: MediaWiki:Sitenotice doesn't exist? /languages/messages got completely deleted and overwritten? you have no extensions that might interfere, like dismissable/shared/magic sitenotice?
[07:00:02] <Ashfire908>	yes
[07:00:05] <Ashfire908>	and new db
[07:00:30] <Splarka>	it isn't making an offsite ajax call is it? disable JS and see if the sitenotice shows
[07:00:41] <Ashfire908>	and new files. i just extracted the files for the file i got from the media wiki website
[07:00:53] <domas>	Ashfire908: they are regular pages
[07:00:53] <domas>	Ashfire908: in separate namespace
[07:00:55] <MZMcBride>	i was thinking you might have accidentally added $wgSitenotice from an old LocalSettings.php
[07:01:11] <domas>	Ashfire908: stored same as every other page: page-revision-text-blobs chain :)
[07:01:16] <Ashfire908>	no
[07:01:20] <Ashfire908>	i didn't
[07:01:22] <Splarka>	domas: deja vu
[07:01:29] <Splarka>	can you link us, ash?
[07:01:40] <domas>	hhehehehehe
[07:01:43] <domas>	or wait
[07:01:49] <domas>	they are stored in
[07:02:04] <domas>	squidcache-page-parsercache-revision-revisioncache-text-blobs-concatenatedblobs
[07:02:05] <domas>	hahahaha
[07:02:08] <Ashfire908>	...
[07:02:12] <Ashfire908>	oh
[07:02:22] <Ashfire908>	uh
[07:02:31] <domas>	<3 our persistence layers
[07:02:47] <Splarka>	deja-deja-deja-deja-deja-deja-deja-deja-vu
[07:02:47] <Ashfire908>	you are supposed to use seperate memcached server for each site right?
[07:02:49] <Ashfire908>	lol
[07:02:53] <domas>	Ashfire908: nope
[07:02:58] <Ashfire908>	?
[07:03:01] <domas>	Ashfire908: and you don't need memcached if you run on single server
[07:03:10] <domas>	you can use APC :)
[07:03:15] <domas>	and mediawiki also prefixes all keys with dbname
[07:03:25] <Ashfire908>	k
[07:03:27] <domas>	so there usually is no clash of key namespaces
[07:03:42] <Ashfire908>	uh
[07:03:53] <Ashfire908>	how do you flush the keys
[07:04:09] <domas>	why would you want to flush them?
[07:04:35] <domas>	hehehehe, me know the shit! \o/
[07:05:11] <Ashfire908>	because the old site had the same database name
[07:05:52] <domas>	in memcached? there is flush command actuall
[07:05:53] <domas>	y
[07:06:09] <Ashfire908>	and i moved the db and files to another folder, then created a new mediawiki site with the same db name
[07:06:20] <domas>	flush_all
[07:06:25] <Ashfire908>	er old db to a different name
[07:06:31] <Ashfire908>	ok
[07:06:46] <Ashfire908>	how to i do the command
[07:07:47] <Ashfire908>	i don't have a client
[07:07:54] <domas>	do you run memcached?
[07:07:57] <domas>	what do you want to do?
[07:09:06] <Ashfire908>	do that flush_all command
[07:09:56] <domas>	it is memcached command ;-)
[07:10:18] <Ashfire908>	how do i use the command???
[07:10:25] <domas>	telnet into memcached :)
[07:10:29] <domas>	write flush_all
[07:10:32] <domas>	quit
[07:10:32] <domas>	:)
[07:10:41] <Ashfire908>	...that's it?
[07:11:05] <domas>	maybe :)
[07:11:59] <Ashfire908>	the sitenotice is gone :)
[07:12:21] <domas>	well, usually editing mediawiki:sitenotice would clean it too
[07:12:22] <domas>	:)
[07:13:18] <Ashfire908>	already flushed the memcached
[07:13:21] <Ashfire908>	...
[07:13:26] <Ashfire908>	hw do i install apc :)
[07:13:32] <Ashfire908>	er
[07:13:49] <Ashfire908>	is it the best of all the options?
[07:18:19] <domas>	what are the other options? :)
[07:20:33] <Ashfire908>	xcache... that eacceator
[07:20:38] <Ashfire908>	stuff
[07:54:52] <madness>	Hello!
[07:55:27] <madness>	I'm trying to do this multiple wiki's thing mentioned here = http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21176
[07:55:47] <madness>	I've been told to take a look at this = http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_family
[07:55:51] <madness>	BUT...
[07:56:31] <madness>	how does that tell me how I can keep their own templates, namespaces and wiki for internal links.
[08:02:49] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Create private Wikinews site - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12528 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (wm-thunderhead)
[08:09:20] <madness>	best idea is just to look at what I'm trying to do and offer help from there = http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21176
[08:14:40] <theDtTvB2>	Hello, how can I put a content of other articles into a skin? I see only things like <?php $this->msg('tagline') ?> but I would like to put other things other than messages.
[08:23:24] <Splarka>	theDtTvB2: you could call other MediaWiki: namespace msgs, and set the content of those msgs to transclude articles/templates (dirty hack)
[08:24:16] <Splarka>	eg, wfMsg('something') and set MediaWiki:Something contents to {{:Something}} and it would be editable at [[Something]] (maybe)
[08:24:18] <amidaniel>	Well, I don't think there's any way to do that without being hacky :)
[08:24:25] <Splarka>	obviously
[08:25:02] <Splarka>	what version of mediawiki, theDtTvB2?
[08:25:16] <amidaniel>	Or, $foo = Article::newFromDB('foo'); $foo->getPageContent(); ... or whatever all the damn methods are called :)
[08:25:47] <amidaniel>	Of course, it would be ideal to handle it through the msg cache
[08:25:49] <Splarka>	the msg cache is probably cleaner, heh
[08:25:51] <amidaniel>	"ideal"
[08:26:00] <Splarka>	less unideal
[08:26:00] <amidaniel>	Splarka: Indeed :)
[08:26:05] <amidaniel>	Code's messier though :P
[08:26:15] <Splarka>	so don't look at it, just use it 
[08:26:24] <amidaniel>	heh
[09:13:55] <siebrand>	TimLaqua_away: only somewhere deep in www.mediawiki.org. TimStarling added it in 1.11alpha mid 2007 IIRC)
[09:16:09] <siebrand>	TimLaqua_away: I just learned it as a trick. Hard for me to explain it from a coder's perspective.
[09:16:48] <siebrand>	TimLaqua_away: best would be to look at some of the commits that implement it.
[09:35:28] <VeliV>	Morning
[09:36:04] <VeliV>	Any one of you know some good fixed width skins for MW?
[09:37:28] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) users should be able to see / review all the contributions they made; including the deleted ones - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12524  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[09:38:17] <VeliV>	I already added my own custom header, and fixed the p-cactions and p-pesonal toolbars position, but my fixes doesnt work in IE
[09:39:26] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29318 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (15 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-01-06 10:33 CET)
[09:43:24] <madness>	...
[09:44:25] <VeliV>	Also, wouldnt it be better if youd just set width to the globalwrapper it would scale all the page to your needs?
[09:51:06] <madness>	Just wondering if any experienced mediawiki users can look through this post and help me out a little = http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21176#post21176
[09:54:20] <Splarka>	you might consider subdomains instead of subdirectories. you might ask in #wikia how they do it (sometime other than middle of the night in the US though)
[09:59:45] <madness>	ok, so you suggest I should contact user #wikia, well considering im in australia that will hopefully be no problem. How many hours until you usually see this user online?
[10:00:06] <Splarka>	#wikia is a channel
[10:00:30] <Splarka>	and Wikia.com is a wiki farm with around 3000 mediawiki wikis on one shared user db
[10:00:36] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikia
[10:00:50] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ Actually... 4500+ atm...
[10:01:14] <Dantman|FS>	Things started to grow a little faster...
[10:01:28] <madness>	cool, I'll check it out. Hopefully this user is able to help :) It looks like he can :)
[10:01:36] <madness>	also why would you need 4500+ wiki's :S
[10:02:36] <Dantman|FS>	Each one has it's own community
[10:02:39] <Splarka>	is not a user, is millions of users, madness
[10:03:19] <madness>	oh, ok.
[10:05:31] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ mmmmmm.... wiki sharing.... <daze>
[10:05:58] <Dantman|FS>	>.< When talking about wiki... Integrating multiple together is one of my favorite subjects...
[10:06:12] <Splarka>	sofixit
[10:06:24] <Dantman|FS>	Bleh... though TransArticle isn't going as well as I thought...
[10:06:36] <Dantman|FS>	Probably going to go back to the TransWiki tag instead
[10:07:13] <Dantman|FS>	madness: Little more info needed...
[10:07:46] <madness>	what kind of info?
[10:07:49] <Dantman|FS>	Basically, what is being shared between the wiki
[10:08:32] <madness>	did you end up seeing this page. = http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21176
[10:08:38] <Dantman|FS>	Ya
[10:08:41] <madness>	basically, separate;
[10:08:43] <madness>	template
[10:08:45] <madness>	wiki
[10:08:47] <madness>	namespaces (excluding default namespaces)
[10:08:47] <Dantman|FS>	I know
[10:08:49] <madness>	and share everything else.
[10:09:13] <Dantman|FS>	But thats a extremely small set of things, and targeted in the wrong direction
[10:09:26] <Dantman|FS>	That's from the perspective of running one wiki and separating things
[10:09:46] <Dantman|FS>	You need different info going from the perspective of running multiple wiki and sharing some things
[10:10:28] <Dantman|FS>	What's needed, is what specifically you want to share, not what you don't...
[10:11:39] <Dantman|FS>	Users, Interwiki table, recentchanges, files, extensions, configuration, databases, blocks, articles, messages, etc...
[10:11:54] <madness>	hmm... this is a bit confusing. I thought saying I just wanted to share verything else and each wiki has it's own template, namespace and wiki was enough :S
[10:12:24] <madness>	I'll just take a little think... :)
[10:12:30] <Splarka>	would you want Special:Recentchanges to show all changes on all wikis or just the local one?
[10:12:42] <Splarka>	would you want Special:Blockip to block a vandal IP or username from just one or all?
[10:13:07] <Splarka>	would you want an upload of Image:Foo.jpg to work on all wikis as [[Image:Foo.jpg]] or only locally?
[10:13:07] <madness>	ah! well the answers to all of them would be ALL.
[10:13:22] <madness>	All :)
[10:13:27] <Splarka>	would you want... a page created as [[Foo]] to appear on all wikis simultaneously?
[10:14:31] <madness>	that would be seperate (locally). Because I want to use internal links as a part of each seperate wiki.
[10:14:37] <Morten_LJ>	Hey, I think something is broken in MediaWiki, I am using Lupins popups script but after i refreshed my cache (ctrl+f5) it does not work anymore, neither on da, en nor betawiki. I think it is the <script>-tag that includes my monobook.js, it shows & converted to &amp; like this: <script type="text/javascript" src="/w/index.php?title=User:Morten_LJ/monobook.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript&amp;dontcountme=s"></script>
[10:14:59] <Splarka>	Morten_LJ: it has always been like that
[10:15:08] <Splarka>	the &amp; in <script> that is
[10:15:23] <Morten_LJ>	Ahh ok, so I guess that is not the problem ;-)
[10:16:47] <Dantman|FS>	madness: There are really only 2 solid methods... Taking one wiki and organizing it to work with multiple topics, or creating multiple wiki and using extensions and code to make them share some things...
[10:17:19] <Morten_LJ>	Splarka: But this link in the src-attribute shows a Wikimedia Foundation error-page, but when i replace &amp; with & it does not
[10:17:44] <Dantman|FS>	A link to [[Dog]] will only be different in one area than linking to [[Dog]] when in another area if you have the areas on separate wiki
[10:18:19] <Dantman|FS>	But recent changes will only display changes in all areas if those areas are on the same wiki
[10:18:38] <madness>	I think taking one wiki and organizing it to work with multiple topics would work best. (Sounds less-time consiming)
[10:18:58] <Dantman|FS>	Ok... out of my scope...
[10:19:12] <madness>	I would want it to display changes from all areas!
[10:19:26] <madness>	hmm... 
[10:19:26] <Dantman|FS>	Btw what are you planning on hosting the wiki with?
[10:19:39] <madness>	I use www.bluehost.com
[10:19:47] <Dantman|FS>	Mkay...
[10:20:06] <madness>	I already have a wiki running, but I've decided to delete it and work on a better version! With the idea I've been talking about in mind!
[10:20:10] <Dantman|FS>	I'd go for them for shared hosting...
[10:20:11] <Splarka>	Morten: your browser sees &amp; in the href as & in the url bar, it is NOT the problem, it has not changed recently
[10:20:27] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) A special group for testing bots needed - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12529 15enhancement; low; MediaWiki: User login/settings; (edwardspec)
[10:20:39] <Dantman|FS>	Unfortunately, I'm farther into the things which require virtual, or even dedicated hosting.
[10:21:08] <Dantman|FS>	T_T I need to find someone with a decent startup server...
[10:21:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) A special group for testing bots needed - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12529  (10edwardspec)
[10:24:13] <madness>	I guess there are no more ideas for what I'm trying to do at the moment :(
[10:24:47] <Dantman|FS>	Well there's always categories...
[10:25:00] <Dantman|FS>	Or namespaces, or putting things in subpages
[10:25:25] <Dantman|FS>	http://en.anime.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Allpages
[10:25:59] <madness>	Well my plan is to have a main wiki, d1, d2, d3 and so on. and each of those wiki's would contain a namespace of Modding and Guide, so I've used the namespaces idea up.
[10:26:06] <Dantman|FS>	There, we're giving each series a identifing name, and making every article there as a subpage
[10:26:42] <Dantman|FS>	madness: You can't run multiple wiki from one wiki... they're separate and things are shared, or they're the same...
[10:27:39] <madness>	all I want is for everything to be shared except templates, namespaces and the wiki it's self.
[10:28:24] <Dantman|FS>	Messages, skins, rc, blocks, templates, namespaces, and pages are all part of the wiki...
[10:28:36] <madness>	so if I was in the d1 wiki, It would have it's own d1 styled template | Have two namespaces | and have it's own wiki so if I had a page named [[Tanner]] and was in d2 I wouldn't see Tanner in the d2 version.
[10:28:38] <Dantman|FS>	Either you have one, or you have multiple
[10:29:08] <Dantman|FS>	It's not possible to take one wiki and put multiple wiki inside of it that way
[10:29:32] <madness>	umm... ok
[10:31:09] <madness>	what do you think the closest way is?
[10:31:29] <Dantman|FS>	Creating multiple wiki... And finding ways to share some parts of the wiki
[10:31:52] <Dantman|FS>	But that will take work
[10:32:12] <Dantman|FS>	There are ways to share some things, and for others there aren't
[10:32:42] <Dantman|FS>	Sharing users would be relatively easy
[10:33:00] <madness>	would there be a list of mediawiki's site which would show what can and cannot be shared?
[10:33:11] <Dantman|FS>	not site... features
[10:33:30] <Dantman|FS>	And staticly saying... nothing can be shared
[10:33:42] <Dantman|FS>	That's the base definition
[10:33:49] <Dantman|FS>	But there are ways of sharing some things
[10:33:53] <Dantman|FS>	Primarly users
[10:34:05] <Dantman|FS>	And you can create a commons for images
[10:34:29] <Dantman|FS>	But after that, you're diving into a large number of extensions to make things shareable
[10:34:45] <Dantman|FS>	You can create global blocks with regexBlock
[10:35:14] <Dantman|FS>	You can hack tableName to make the interwiki table shared
[10:35:45] <Dantman|FS>	Same goes for user_rights, or I have a tougher method of sharing only some...
[10:38:09] <madness>	what are globalBlock's
[10:39:46] <Dantman|FS>	blocks like everything else are part of the wiki and therefore blocking someone on one wiki won't block them on the other
[10:40:03] <Dantman|FS>	A global block would be one which blocks someone on all the wiki
[10:40:43] <madness>	ok so I guess that would also include recent changes
[10:41:34] <Dantman|FS>	Recent changes would be separate, as would everything else
[10:42:05] <Dantman|FS>	Unfortunately... that one is a little trickier
[10:42:27] <Dantman|FS>	There's no config to share that...
[10:42:44] <Dantman|FS>	And creating an extension to do it is a little tough to
[10:44:16] <madness>	ok, and if the interwiki table was shared. Would that enable me to...
[10:44:20] <madness>	?
[10:45:18] <Dantman|FS>	Sharing the table would mean that the wiki would have the same interwiki links
[10:45:42] <Dantman|FS>	Interwiki links let you link to other wiki using the internal link syntax
[10:45:50] <Dantman|FS>	Like [[Wikipedia:Main Page]]
[10:45:55] <madness>	oh, yeah... that makes sense.
[10:46:02] <madness>	that's something I wanted to do.
[10:46:40] <Dantman|FS>	The nice thing about sharing it, is you could create interwiki links like d1, d2, d3... So that using [[d1:pagename]] would link to a page on the d1 wiki from one of the others.
[10:46:56] <madness>	yeah, that's what I had in mind :)
[10:47:45] <madness>	so guess this is my primary option now... It looks like it'll be the closest I can get to what I want to do.
[10:48:00] <Dantman|FS>	Ya...
[10:48:44] <madness>	So I guess I have to install mediawiki in the main directory, then /d1 /d2 /d3 and so on...
[10:48:50] <madness>	Using different prefixs in the database
[10:49:41] <madness>	then I have to work our how to share everything I can share, such as you mentioned... Users, globalblocks and that interwiki hack.
[10:50:02] <Dantman|FS>	Erm...
[10:50:24] <Dantman|FS>	Using different prefixes might not work out that great
[10:50:53] <Dantman|FS>	90% of the stuff made for sharing things is made to work when you put each wiki on it's own database
[10:53:11] <madness>	what kind of problems would occur if I were to use different prefixes in the database.
[10:53:24] <madness>	when reading this page before it looked like it said I should use prefixes = http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_family
[10:53:37] <madness>	and I would perfer to use one db instead of eight.
[10:54:39] <Dantman|FS>	That page is beginners junk, dosn't really help you out
[10:55:03] <Dantman|FS>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSharedDB#Table_Prefix_Hack
[10:55:33] <Dantman|FS>	If you want to share users with wiki having different prefixes, then there's that experimental hack
[10:55:58] <Dantman|FS>	But you won't get regexBlock to work without multiple databases
[10:56:50] <Dantman|FS>	Everyone uses multiple databases unless they have a limitation on their ability to get them
[10:57:41] <madness>	Well at the moment I have 50databases so that isn't a problem, yet I perfer to keep everything organised and since I'm using my host for lots of different things, the database setup justs gets a little bit confusing.
[10:59:19] <Dantman|FS>	I just put wiki_ at the start of any database name I use
[10:59:43] <Dantman|FS>	If phpMyAdmin is configured for it, it'll actually group them together
[11:00:02] <madness>	my plan was d1_ d2_ d3_ | I'm using phpMyAdmin at the moment.
[11:00:17] <Dantman|FS>	That's for tables
[11:00:34] <Dantman|FS>	I'm meaning calling databases something like wiki_d1, wiki_d1, wiki_3
[11:00:46] <Dantman|FS>	wiki_d2, wiki_d3*
[11:01:13] <madness>	oh, yeah of course!
[11:01:30] <madness>	in the same database?
[11:01:34] <Dantman|FS>	No
[11:01:53] <Dantman|FS>	Those are database names I said
[11:01:57] <Dantman|FS>	You have databases and tables
[11:01:58] <madness>	I was just reading this = http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexBlock = Note: this extension works best when used along with setting shared database and memcached.
[11:02:29] <madness>	oh, wiki is the database, d2 is the prefix. Maybe I'm confusing you :S
[11:02:39] <madness>	or confusing myself.
[11:02:43] <Dantman|FS>	second one
[11:03:10] <Dantman|FS>	Shared database means you put each wiki in it's own database, and create another to put global things like a user table
[11:03:14] <MinuteElectron>	madness: You *do not* want to use table prefixes.
[11:03:27] <MinuteElectron>	Put each wiki in its own seperate database.
[11:04:13] <madness>	umm... ok...
[11:07:26] <madness>	well at the moment I'm going to extract the mediawiki onto the server and I'll start trying all of this and see what happens.
[11:11:55] <madness>	well I'll say thanks for all your help so far! :) There is still a long jounry for me if I want to get this going.
[11:12:49] <madness>	I'm starting to turn back on what I origionally had = http://www.drivermadness.net/main/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page | It won't be as good but it dosen't over confuse me :)
[11:16:11] <madness>	Someone said ages ago that I could use parser functions only to make the templates seperate for each namespace, does anyone have any idea about that!
[11:16:26] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29319 10/trunk/extensions/ (30 files in 29 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from Betawiki (2008-01-05 11:56 CET)
[11:18:34] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29320 10/trunk/extensions/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 10:59 UTC)
[11:21:03] <enhydra>	madness, did they mean {{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{ns:0}}=article...|{{ns:2}}=userpage...|{{ns:4}}=projectpage...}} ?
[11:21:36] <madness>	they only said that you could use template for namespaces using parserfunctions nothing else.
[11:22:04] <madness>	So your saying what I'm assuming they said may not be possible.
[11:22:31] <enhydra>	then the code above is the implementation (see http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Namespace for a full list of numbers)
[11:24:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) indented embedded table leaves an unclosed DL, causing unwanted indentation - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6776  +comment (10nospam)
[11:29:47] <Scrounch>	hi all
[11:31:06] <madness>	err... Hello!
[11:31:22] <Scrounch>	exists it a light version of wikimedia?
[11:31:57] <MinuteElectron>	No.
[11:32:49] <Scrounch>	Ok, thanks.
[11:33:02] <flyingparchment>	yes, it's called 'usemod' :)
[11:33:33] <MinuteElectron>	blasphemy
[11:33:57] <flyingparchment>	wikimedia ran on usemod for ages
[11:35:27] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29321 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (MessageGroups.php Translate.php): Update $wmfextensions
[11:37:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) indented embedded table leaves an unclosed DL, causing unwanted indentation - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6776  (10nospam)
[11:39:22] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29322 10/trunk/extensions/ (8 files in 8 dirs): Removing 'avk'. Waiting for ISO 639 code.
[11:46:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Make page titles case-insensitive ( but preserve case-sensitivity for display) - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453  +comment (10andre)
[11:53:27] <WM-Thunderhead>	Would anyone mind helping me with (what I think is) an .htaccess problem?
[11:59:02] <WM-Thunderhead>	I installed a wiki on a subdomain, and it's using "Pretty urls". Everything seems to be working, but pages with underscores in the Article NS aren't. If they are in any other namespace, they're fine. In the article, however, i get a 404 error
[12:01:59] <whiles>	is there an extension that generates an RSS feed of all pages (to send it to search engines) ??
[12:03:35] <WM-Thunderhead>	nope
[12:04:31] <WM-Thunderhead>	It's bare 1.11.0 with the exception of Oversight, Inputbox, YouTubetag, Newuserlog, and SpamBlacklist
[12:04:52] <whiles>	WM-Thunderhead: do you use a .htaccesss file ?
[12:05:31] <WM-Thunderhead>	.htaccess, yes.
[12:05:41] <WM-Thunderhead>	ahhhhh, thats the problem, i had a typo
[12:05:42] <WM-Thunderhead>	Sorry :)
[12:06:24] <WM-Thunderhead>	thanks much :)
[12:13:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create new prefix WP: for polish Wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12515  +comment (10xarak)
[12:16:17] <Duesentrieb>	whiles: send an rss feed to search engines? huh? what do you mean?
[12:16:36] <Duesentrieb>	whiles: there's a feed for all changes on the wiki. and there's an extension that provides a google site map.
[12:48:09] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Can't access WikimaniaTeam wiki - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12510  +comment (10jeluf)
[12:50:11] <rigid>	re
[12:50:50] <rigid>	i cleaned the monobook skin so it's completly HTML valid... but now IE6 crashes...
[12:51:09] <rigid>	are there any web-experts here that got a few hints how one could debug this?
[12:54:45] <JeLuF>	get the source code of IE6 and start it in a debugger. Oops. Closed source, you say? Bad...
[12:57:29] <rigid>	JeLuF: :) i could run the program in a debugger even without the source..
[12:57:45] <rigid>	but i'm no windoze developer and I'm not interested in becoming one...
[12:58:13] <rigid>	i just wanna get the skin working... somehow
[12:59:32] <PunkRock>	rigid: does monobook use java script or this fancy ms action script or however they use it?
[12:59:55] <PunkRock>	 /use/call/
[13:00:18] <PunkRock>	crashing a browser with html sounds really weird.
[13:01:55] <PunkRock>	is there a `strace` equivalent on windows? so you could try and run ie in it.
[13:02:03] <rigid>	PunkRock: yes but only the standard stuff... i didn't change any line of the original JS
[13:02:14] <rigid>	PunkRock: i guess there isn't
[13:02:24] <rigid>	it's not plain html... there's also some CSs
[13:02:26] <rigid>	CSS
[13:02:46] <PunkRock>	rigid: you could try and run it without js. 
[13:03:13] <PunkRock>	i would think that it's more a action script or java script issue. 
[13:03:32] <rigid>	PunkRock: yeah that's what I do right now... Removing everything until IE won't crash anymore... but that's not very sophisticated ;)
[13:03:47] <rigid>	i wonder if there's some kinda error-console...
[13:04:25] <PunkRock>	css - well. i mean it's a layout language. if it crashes the software then it's a matter of the MS-Team. 
[13:04:52] <rigid>	PunkRock: yeah... i'm also in the mood of putting a "Use a real Browser" message in there...
[13:05:00] <PunkRock>	rigid: well. i agree on efficiency of debugging it like this.
[13:05:11] <rigid>	...but that won't help the old granny that just wanna watch a website... :-/
[13:05:23] <PunkRock>	rigid: hrm.
[13:05:36] <PunkRock>	i would do this. 
[13:05:44] <rigid>	man, writing parsers is one of the MOST basic things a computer-scientist can do...
[13:05:52] <rigid>	why can't MS do it...
[13:05:58] <PunkRock>	whoever uses proprietary software should be punished for it.
[13:06:23] <rigid>	i agree completly... but not all ppl do...
[13:06:39] <PunkRock>	then let em face this monobook problem.
[13:06:41] <rigid>	"website quality" simply goes down if it can't be watched by any browser :-/
[13:06:57] <PunkRock>	and let ms get a load of bug reports and frustrated users.
[13:07:05] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Create portal namespace on la.wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12523  +comment (10jeluf)
[13:08:05] <rigid>	PunkRock: yep that's probably the best... leaving it just like this and let the bugger crash
[13:08:33] <PunkRock>	rigid: well....i don't know if it's a political question. 
[13:08:57] <rigid>	PunkRock: it is... it's a wiki meant to be for a university :-/
[13:09:00] <PunkRock>	what i would do is the following: write a bug report to MS and give em time to respone.,
[13:09:07] <PunkRock>	respond.
[13:09:28] <rigid>	PunkRock: i'm not even using windows, can I file a bugreport without fancy reg-numbers and stuff?
[13:09:42] <PunkRock>	don't know. i am no MS user.
[13:09:47] <rigid>	lol
[13:11:12] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Localisation of Asturian Wiktionary name - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12501  +comment (10jeluf)
[13:13:48] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Incomplete Taiwanese translation of "jumpto" and related messages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8056  +comment (10shinjiman)
[13:14:42] <wikibugs>	14(DUP)  - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12521  +comment (10shinjiman)
[13:14:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Incomplete Taiwanese translation of "jumpto" and related messages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8056  (10shinjiman)
[13:19:45] <marchelly>	re
[13:25:14] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) add the UTF-8 and RTL namespaces from [[meta:]] to test. wikipedia.org - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12476  +comment (10jeluf)
[13:30:02] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Enabling subpages for it.wikisource namespaces - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12389  +comment (10jeluf)
[13:36:54] <MinuteElectron>	Hi, I'm having some trouble with an extension I'm writing - it has a form, but when I push the submit button it goes to the search page. Any ideas why this might happen?
[13:39:27] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Activate enwikiquote user talk-page change notification - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12295  +comment (10jeluf)
[13:51:37] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) $wgAllowExternalImagesFrom is to limiting, extend it to allow multiple domains - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12530 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Images; (dan_the_man)
[13:59:29] <Dashiva>	MinuteElectron: Check if your form is inside another form
[13:59:40] <Dashiva>	Also check the @action of your form
[14:00:31] <MinuteElectron>	<
[14:00:35] <MinuteElectron>	<form method="post" action="/wiki/Special:EditRow?table=iau&row=6"
[14:01:09] <MinuteElectron>	ok, i fixed it
[14:01:12] <MinuteElectron>	missing a closing tag
[14:01:14] <MinuteElectron>	thanks
[14:01:20] <Nikerabbit>	isn't the standard way to use $wgScript as action?
[14:01:43] <MinuteElectron>	Yeah, it is.
[14:02:01] <MinuteElectron>	:)
[14:06:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Incomplete Taiwanese translation of "jumpto" and related messages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8056  +comment (10jeluf)
[14:21:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Configure additional import sources on Italian projects - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11171  (10broken.arrow)
[14:22:13] <earthnative>	quick question... the summary and licensing fields in wikipedia... is that an extension or just a facet of the version of mediawiki that wikipedia uses? (I'm on 1.10 from debian)
[14:23:50] <Duesentrieb>	summary is always there. the license selector isn't per default, but i think it shows up automatically if you define MediaWiki:Licenses. Not sure though.
[14:24:02] <earthnative>	ahhh... hmmm
[14:24:20] <earthnative>	yeah, I think I've just found some extra info in the template messages too
[14:31:12] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Specified key was too long during installation of version 1.6.10 - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12531 04CRIT; high; MediaWiki: Installation; (wikipedia.org-mail)
[14:32:53] <Nikerabbit>	duplicate
[14:56:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Specified key was too long during installation of version 1.6. 10 - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12531  +comment (10jeluf)
[14:58:00] <CIA-40>	03rotem * r29323 10/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php: Make sure to show the header message (MediaWiki:Userrights-summary) of Special:Userrights.
[15:16:22] <Wan-WP>	hello+
[15:20:09] <Wan-WP>	Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 15552 bytes) in /users/quadraginta/www/wiki/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 168
[15:20:16] <Wan-WP>	what does this mean?
[15:20:24] <Dashiva>	It means you're using too much memory
[15:20:44] <Wan-WP>	Dashiva: ;) And what means this?
[15:20:57] <Wan-WP>	Dashiva: How can I repair that?
[15:22:04] <Dashiva>	Dunno. Maybe you have too many or too big images
[15:22:52] <Wan-WP>	Dashiva: Hmm, this would be the first image. I have set the allowed size in the defeaultsettings very high...
[15:23:44] <Wan-WP>	Dashiva: So I don't know what to do :(
[15:33:11] <Duesentrieb>	Wan-WP: never ever edit DefaultSettings.php
[15:33:16] <Duesentrieb>	!config
[15:33:16] --mwbot--	*All* configuration is done in LocalSettings.php (near the end of the file). Editing other files means modifying the software. Default settings are not in LocalSettings.php, you can *look* in DefaultSettings.php. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_MediaWiki>, <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:LocalSettings.php>, <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Config_script>
[15:35:06] <gissi>	Would anyone be so kind and answer this question? I am currently editing MonoBook.php, where I want to add some internal Links (like [[Pagename]] in the wiki markup). As far as I can see the href of those internal links is always "/$someprefix$/Pagename". What I would like to know is how I can get this prefix (it's e.g. "wiki" in wikipedia) inside MonoBook.php. Is it any global variable?
[15:36:34] <Wan-WP>	hmm.
[15:42:47] <JeLuF>	gissi: The URLs are supposed to be built earlier, outside of MonoBook.php. Where do you want to add your link?
[15:45:41] <m8i-eva>	Is there anyone?
[15:47:24] <gissi>	JeLuF: I want to create a breadcrumb navigation which is displayed above the content. E.g. for the page "Page/Subpage/Subsubpage" it shall show as "[[Page|Page]] → [[Page/Subpage|Subpage]] → Subsubpage" (I only used wiki markup to make clear where it links to). My intention was now to do that all in my custom MonoBook.php so that other Skins are not affected.
[15:49:48] <JeLuF>	m8i-eva: No.
[15:50:06] <m8i-eva>	JeLuF: Thx...:)
[15:50:13] <JeLuF>	gissi: You should use the extension framework to embed this properly
[15:50:14] <Dashiva>	gissi: There was a bug on that...
[15:51:26] <Dashiva>	The list of pages is built in subPageSubtitle, in Skin. Not trivial to customize, really
[15:52:50] *Dashiva 	wonders if that's actually the question
[15:54:56] <gissi>	Dashiva: I planned to do explode("/", $this->data['title']) and then to create the breadcrumb navigation out of it in a "for"-loop
[15:55:51] <Dashiva>	gissi: Just so it's clear, what's not good enough about the current monobook breadcrumbs?
[15:57:35] <gissi>	Dashiva: I customize monobook to look (and behave) like a page that already exists (chaosradio.de), that's why I want the breadcrumb to be like the one on this page
[15:58:34] <Wan-WP>	bye
[16:00:12] <gissi>	Is there no common way to set a intern link in MonoBook.php?
[16:04:28] <rigid>	gissi: you don't need to alter monobook.php for a simple link
[16:10:15] <gissi>	rigid: if i want to implement this breadcrumb navigation inside the skin, I do, or how would you do that?
[16:11:37] <rigid>	gissi: ah breadcrumbs... w8
[16:12:28] <rigid>	gissi: you use the extension bei Kimon Andreou?
[16:13:04] <rigid>	gissi: a proper extension will add a hook
[16:13:15] <rigid>	no skin-alteration necesarry
[16:14:18] <gissi>	rigid: no, i want to avoid an extension, i would like that the breadcrumb is only part of the theme i create, not of the other ones
[16:14:42] <phil_praxis>	hi there, How do I configure mediawiki to use PATH_TRANSLATED URLs rather than "?" Question marks URLS? 
[16:14:58] <rigid>	gissi: that's not intended. i wouldn't do it
[16:15:06] <rigid>	gissi: what if you update your skin?
[16:16:32] <gissi>	rigid: what problem should that cause
[16:17:07] <rigid>	gissi: you have to alter the skin again then. Your implementation may interfere with future updates if you don't know what you're doing...
[16:17:16] <phil_praxis>	or instead of question mark, use the COLON ":" notation?
[16:17:19] <rigid>	anyway, i don't know how to do it
[16:17:21] <phil_praxis>	I don't see that either in the conf
[16:17:26] <phil_praxis>	nor in the documentation?
[16:17:43] <rigid>	phil_praxis: i doubt that there's a way
[16:17:54] <rigid>	this normally depends of the web-server/php
[16:18:22] <phil_praxis>	uh? well... most apache/php conf enable you to either get PATH_TRANSLATED or GET parameters
[16:18:33] <phil_praxis>	and this one does
[16:18:33] <rigid>	phil_praxis: ...but i'm not sure, maybe wait for a more qualified answer ;)
[16:19:11] <phil_praxis>	yes, thanks, it's up to the php script to know either to get from GET params or PATH_Translated
[16:19:33] <phil_praxis>	here i Get urls like: /index.php?title=TmplabOneDayBlastJan2008 and i'd prefer: /index.php:title=TmplabOneDayBlastJan2008
[16:19:40] <phil_praxis>	or better: 
[16:19:48] <phil_praxis>	 /index.php:TmplabOneDayBlastJan2008
[16:20:24] <rigid>	phil_praxis: you'd be in trouble with namespaces then...
[16:20:36] <rigid>	phil_praxis: think of "Special:*" pages
[16:20:52] <phil_praxis>	yes, but how does one gets pages like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page
[16:21:00] <Dashiva>	rewrite
[16:21:07] <phil_praxis>	instead of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page
[16:21:16] <phil_praxis>	only rewrite? wow
[16:21:24] <phil_praxis>	that's a bit overkill to me, serverconf
[16:21:35] <Dashiva>	RewriteRule wiki/(.*) w/index.php/$1 [L,QSA]
[16:21:50] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29324 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/Language/ (3 files): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 14:53 UTC)
[16:21:50] <phil_praxis>	k
[16:22:07] <phil_praxis>	well... that means more .htaccess fun now
[16:22:15] <phil_praxis>	thanks all!
[16:22:53] <gissi>	rigid: I know i should be careful with adding that to the skin itself. But i actually thougt it would not be a big task to explode the title with explode("/", $this->data['title']) and displaying this array's data in a "Page → Subpage → Subsubpage" order with links to Page and Subpage for the first two items 
[16:24:09] <phil_praxis>	ah.... found: $wgUsePathInfo
[16:24:15] <phil_praxis>	$wgUsePathInfo = true;
[16:24:34] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29325 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/Language/FlaggedRevsPage.i18n.hu.php: Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 14:53 UTC)
[16:28:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Kazakh message updates - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12145  +comment (10alefzet)
[16:28:09] <phil_praxis>	anyway, thanks, and a new mediawiki for the community: http://www.onedayblast.org/index.php/Main_Page
[16:28:49] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Kazakh message updates - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12145  (10alefzet)
[16:29:23] <phil_praxis>	bye bye
[16:32:45] <doos_>	hi all
[16:33:05] <eghaytee>	Has anyone in here been able to use varnish instead of squid for http-accel? Does anyone have any mediawiki-specific links for this?
[16:33:29] <doos_>	could anyone tell me where I can adjust the tabs in the monobook skin?
[16:43:34] <doos_>	I'm trying to alter the style of monobook's main.css, but I can't find the part to alter the tabs
[16:48:30] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29326 10/trunk/extensions/ (30 files in 28 dirs): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 14:53 UTC)
[16:49:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Kazakh i18n updates for extensions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7971  +comment (10alefzet)
[16:50:20] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Kazakh i18n updates for extensions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7971  (10alefzet)
[16:50:44] <doos_>	got it
[16:53:21] <phil_praxis>	back again... 
[16:54:55] <phil_praxis>	I have a slight problem, i added a {{Languages}} line to indicate there is a /fr page for French, but Mediawiki doesn't display the correct links to the multilingual pages, just:  "Template:Languages" which is a link to edit  Template:Languages
[16:55:12] <phil_praxis>	somehow my mediawiki configuration doesn't recognize the Languages template...
[16:55:17] <phil_praxis>	http://www.onedayblast.org/index.php/Main_Page
[16:56:17] <phil_praxis>	is there something particular to do to enable templates?
[16:57:11] <flyingparchment>	did you create Template:Languages?
[16:58:32] <phil_praxis>	nope since as i understand it, mediawiki provides this as links to only existing i18n'd pages?
[16:58:33] <phil_praxis>	wrong?
[16:58:46] <JeLuF>	wrong.
[16:58:51] <flyingparchment>	no, there's nothing special about writing {{Languages}}.  all it does is include the page named Template:Languages into the current page
[16:59:02] <flyingparchment>	if it does something special on another wiki, that's because they created that page themselves
[16:59:33] <phil_praxis>	hmmm.... well on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages it seems that the page contains plenty of text
[16:59:42] <JeLuF>	phil: If you're familiar with programming, it's similar to a #include in C or a require_once in PHP 
[16:59:50] <phil_praxis>	yeah i got that
[17:00:12] <phil_praxis>	and not the text that replaces {{Templages}} is fairly different from  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages 
[17:00:27] <phil_praxis>	i.e only one table instead of a whole page...
[17:00:36] <flyingparchment>	yes, it contains text on mediawiki.org because they created it
[17:00:44] <flyingparchment>	and the extra text is using <noinclude>, to document the template
[17:00:55] <flyingparchment>	(<noinclude>/<onlyinclude> are used to mark which parts of the template will actually be included)
[17:02:25] <phil_praxis>	hmmm.. ok, looking at it
[17:02:34] <phil_praxis>	it's weird it's not in std mediawiki distribution
[17:02:55] <phil_praxis>	because it seems like something anyone would love to use or at least be able to download easily from somewhere 
[17:03:07] <flyingparchment>	it has a license that would be annoying for other sites
[17:03:11] <flyingparchment>	(GFDL)
[17:03:16] <phil_praxis>	(and not recreate it by hand and populate the PNG image etc...)
[17:03:24] <flyingparchment>	it might be worth writing some PD templates to do common things and redistributing them, but no-one has yet
[17:08:38] <MinuteElectron>	flyingparchment: indeed, I think it would be quite ncie to set up a public domain mediawiki content wiki for distributing help and templates etc. The current public domain help has been quite a failiure (when trying to use it on my wiki I spent several hours going through it all), this maybe be an idea for my next project as there isn't a chance that Wikimedia would host something like this.
[17:09:03] <m8i-eva>	Can anyone answer my quesion? I cannot use Conditional Tables like Wikipedia. I did some research but ... not work.
[17:09:47] <m8i-eva>	(Installed Extension: ParserFunctions)
[17:10:08] <flyingparchment>	MinuteElectron: why wouldn't they host mediawiki content when they already host the website and svn and the domain?
[17:11:10] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29327 10/trunk/extensions/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Submit patch proposed by AlefZet
[17:11:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Kazakh i18n updates for extensions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7971  +comment (10bertrand.grondin)
[17:13:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Kazakh i18n updates for extensions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7971  +comment (10bertrand.grondin)
[17:13:53] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Kazakh i18n updates for extensions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7971  (10bertrand.grondin)
[17:14:09] <phil_praxis>	flyingparchment: hehe... getting there... not easy tho
[17:14:33] <phil_praxis>	why do {{if conditionnal statement are displayed rather than interpreted?
[17:15:54] <flyingparchment>	phil: you didn't install the parserfunctions extension
[17:20:10] <phil_praxis>	flyingparchment: there seems to be more than one
[17:20:16] <phil_praxis>	LO parser functions
[17:20:24] <phil_praxis>	Winter parser functions
[17:20:42] <phil_praxis>	ahem.... isn't there a standard package for these?
[17:22:39] <flyingparchment>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions#Installation
[17:23:00] <phil_praxis>	thanks!
[17:23:11] <phil_praxis>	ahh... meta seems to be a very good source of info! thanks a lot!
[17:25:58] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) File links on image description page should be in alphanumeric (alphabetic ) order - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12532 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (greg.ebdon)
[17:27:44] <phil_praxis>	flyingparchment: thanks a lot, works perfectly
[17:29:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Specified key was too long during installation of version 1.6. 10 - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12531  +comment (10wikipedia.org-mail)
[17:32:27] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29328 10/trunk/extensions/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 17:20 UTC)
[17:39:26] <MinuteElectron>	flyingparchment: Well, I just thought it would be unlikely they would host something that would basically be mediawiki.org just with more targetted content and in the public domain. Do you think I should suggest it? I can always set up my own wiki for it if rejected I suppose (which would be highly likely)... or perhaps set my own up then move it across when it is accepted (or not)
[17:56:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MediaWiki:Sidebar regularly falls back to an obsolete version, due to server cache effect - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5092  +comment (10niklas.laxstrom)
[18:29:48] <orzel>	hello. I'm trying to update my mysql (4.0.27-> 5.0.x). And i have a problem that seems very common, when importing the sql : "Specified key was too long; max key length is 1000 bytes". This because char now takes 3 bytes instead of 1 (unicode). According to pages found google, lot of people have this problem, and solve it differently
[18:30:00] <orzel>	some reduces the key length. others configure the key in latin1 instead.
[18:30:22] <orzel>	i dont want to break my wiki's. So I wonder : is there an 'official' way of fixing this break ?
[18:30:29] <Simetrical>	orzel, this should not occur in recent versions of MediaWiki (1.10.1+).
[18:30:54] <orzel>	i have ~6 wikis on this db, some very old and a 1.10.0. Even this very recent one has the problem.
[18:31:01] <orzel>	Simetrical: argh, you answered too quick :)
[18:31:24] <orzel>	Simetrical: ok...will i be able to update first mediawiki  ? will it work with mysql 4.0.27 ?
[18:32:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[18:36:15] <warddr>	hello, how can I find the version of the wiki?
[18:36:49] <warddr>	Someone installed it and now I take it over, but he doesn't know the version number and special:version doesn't work
[18:37:43] <timofonic>	It's possible to put mediawiki in maintenance mode?
[18:37:57] <warddr>	how do i do that?
[18:38:14] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29329 10/trunk/extensions/ContributionScores/ContributionScores.i18n.php: Revert changes in r29327. unexpected T_VARIABLE in ./extensions/ContributionScores/ContributionScores.i18n.php on line 442
[18:38:51] <rainman-sr>	warddr, look at RELEASE-NOTES
[18:39:16] <warddr>	1.9.3 ty
[18:39:27] <warddr>	how can I update to 1.11?
[18:39:30] <Simetrical>	orzel, Wikipedia runs on MySQL 4.0 and will for the foreseeable future.  Therefore, MediaWiki has no current plans to drop MySQL 4.0 support.
[18:39:42] <BrokenArrow>	timofonic: maintenance as in read-only? 
[18:39:56] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29330 10/trunk/extensions/CentralAuth/CentralAuth.i18n.php: Fix issue introduces in r29327. unexpected T_VARIABLE in ./extensions/CentralAuth/CentralAuth.i18n.php on line 1382
[18:40:18] <SPQRobin>	warddr: see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[18:40:22] <Simetrical>	!upgrade | warddr 
[18:40:22] --mwbot--	warddr : http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[18:40:25] <timofonic>	BrokenArrow, read only and showing a temporary page "This wiki is in maintenance mode"
[18:40:33] <Simetrical>	!readonly
[18:40:33] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "readonly".
[18:40:36] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[18:41:08] <warddr>	thanks SPQRobin and Simetrical
[18:41:49] <Simetrical>	!readonly | timofonic 
[18:41:49] --mwbot--	timofonic : http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgReadOnly
[18:42:04] <orzel>	Simetrical: great!  thx for your answer. I'm ok to update all mediawiki's before upgrading mysql.
[18:42:13] <timofonic>	Simetrical, thanks :)
[18:42:37] <timofonic>	Simetrical, another option that needs to modify Localsettings? :(
[18:42:59] <timofonic>	Aren't there some kind of mediawiki administration frontend? :P
[18:43:13] <Simetrical>	timofonic, no.  LocalSettings.php is used for all administration and configuration.
[18:43:26] <timofonic>	uhm
[18:43:28] <Simetrical>	A long-term "nice thing to have" would be a web front-end for most of these, but nobody's bothered making one.
[18:43:37] <timofonic>	OK :P
[18:43:55] <Simetrical>	Realize that MediaWiki is made primarily for Wikipedia, everything else second.  So stuff like this that's worthless for Wikipedia isn't always such high-priority.
[18:44:10] <timofonic>	OK...
[18:45:44] <warddr>	I always have this error: http://kinderwiki.net/wiki2/config/   
[18:47:31] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[18:47:48] <Simetrical>	Clever.
[18:47:55] <warddr>	is that becouse that's in a subdirectory?
[18:48:07] <Simetrical>	Your host doesn't permit you to access files *in your own home directory*.
[18:48:09] <Simetrical>	Apparently.
[18:48:24] <Simetrical>	At least that's . . . no, wait.
[18:48:24] <Simetrical>	Weird.
[18:48:37] <Simetrical>	Oh, never mind, I was misreading.
[18:48:57] <Simetrical>	Ignore all the "Warning"s in the middle, the important bit is the last one.
[18:49:07] <Simetrical>	/home/kinderwiki/domains/kinderwiki.net/public_html/wiki2/languages/Names.php doesn't exist.
[18:49:13] <Simetrical>	Are you sure you copied the files correctly?
[18:49:23] <warddr>	I think so
[18:51:15] <Simetrical>	warddr, does the file I mentioned exist?
[18:51:23] <warddr>	Yes
[18:51:55] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[18:52:27] <warddr>	oh, it don't exist
[18:52:33] <Simetrical>	Right, it should.
[18:52:46] <warddr>	I'll recopy the language dir.
[18:52:49] <warddr>	ty
[18:52:53] <Simetrical>	Best to re-copy the whole thing.
[18:53:41] <warddr>	ok
[18:59:43] <morgajel>	hey guys, got a question- I have a book that I wrote stored in a wiki- each chapter is it's own page, and all are part of the same category- the problem is the page names are "Sinblade - Chapter 1 (rough draft)" and so on- in the category view, it's listing them in alphabetical order, inserting chapters 10-13 between 1 and 2 in the list
[18:59:59] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Configure additional import sources on Italian projects - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11171  +comment (10jeluf)
[19:00:51] <morgajel>	my second try was to use numbers [[Category:Sinblade (rough draft)|10]] for sorting, but that just put chapters 1,10-13 under 1.... any suggestions on how to get this to behave a bit better?
[19:01:37] <Simetrical>	morgajel, you can do something like [[Category:Sinblade (rough draft)|001]], 002, 003, ..., 010, 011, ...
[19:01:43] <Simetrical>	That will sort as you want it to.
[19:01:51] *Simetrical 	kicks MediaWiki's sorting in the face
[19:02:35] <Sundance_Raphael>	n8
[19:02:53] <morgajel>	aaahinteresting
[19:04:57] <morgajel>	sweeet
[19:06:46] <morgajel>	anyone know offhand which browser is the one that has issues editing pages over 32k?
[19:07:10] <Simetrical>	morgajel, a variety of old ones.
[19:07:17] <Simetrical>	Like along the lines of Netscape 4.
[19:07:18] <orzel>	The page http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading_MediaWiki is great, although it doesn't state supported revisions. Can this be used from such old version as 1.6.0 ? 
[19:07:23] <Simetrical>	I can't remember which ones exactly, offhand.
[19:07:32] <Simetrical>	Maybe it's been reintroduced with some of these new cell-phone browsers.
[19:07:33] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29331 10/trunk/extensions/ContributionScores/ContributionScores.i18n.php: Fix bug : unrecognized caracter in the file
[19:08:01] <Simetrical>	orzel, it's been successfully tested in an upgrade as far back as 1.3, I believe.  If it fails, try upgrading one version at a time.
[19:20:46] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29332 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/archives/patch-acr_filename.sql: Fix typo
[19:24:18] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29333 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (18 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-01-06 20:16 CET)
[19:28:07] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Enable email notification on changes to user talk pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5220  +comment (10jeluf)
[19:34:29] <ialex>	anybody to put svn:eol native on languages/messages/MessagesNa.php and includes/api/ApiChangeRights.php ?
[19:43:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10darklama)
[19:48:45] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29334 10/trunk/extensions/ (26 files in 24 dirs): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 19:23 UTC)
[19:48:47] <orzel>	Simetrical: ok, thx again.
[19:51:31] <darkcode>	hello Simetrical
[19:51:40] *warddr 	is leaving
[19:52:45] <Simetrical>	darkcode, hello.
[19:53:57] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29335 10/trunk/extensions/ChangeAuthor/ChangeAuthor.i18n.php: fixed syntax error
[19:54:04] <HypedZJ>	Hi - does anyone know of a site or resource where I could pay for Wikimedia installation (including of parser functions, etc.) as well as very basic modifications to the software
[19:54:42] <Simetrical>	HypedZJ, I don't know of any.  You should be able to get any PHP programmer with basic server admin experience to do it, though.
[19:55:07] <HypedZJ>	do you know a good resource where to track down solid programmers
[19:55:18] <MinuteElectron>	here?
[19:55:27] <HypedZJ>	anywhere
[19:57:21] <HypedZJ>	anyone?
[19:58:04] <Simetrical>	HypedZJ, not personally.  Whatever work I need I do myself.  It's very easy to get scammed in programmer/admin/etc. hiring, if you don't know much about that kind of thing yourself.
[19:58:25] <HypedZJ>	is there a reputable site that screens programmers
[19:58:29] <HypedZJ>	or any kind of good source
[19:59:46] <flyingparchment>	setting up mediawiki really isn't that hard
[19:59:51] <flyingparchment>	probably easier than finding someone to do it
[20:00:34] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29336 10/trunk/extensions/CheckUser/CheckUser.i18n.php: fix bug of committing language
[20:01:28] <HypedZJ>	ive set it up, but i have stupid problems getting equations to show up
[20:01:39] <HypedZJ>	also i need to hack into the script to edit the lower left sidebar
[20:03:51] <HypedZJ>	anyone in here want to make a quick $100 and help me with that?
[20:03:56] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: that are no hard tasks. just ask a student
[20:04:36] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: except of the equation issue. i am not sure what you mean by that.
[20:04:45] <Dashiva>	Probably mathml
[20:05:03] <HypedZJ>	yeah i believe that is it
[20:05:16] <PunkRock>	hm. then this could become a more hard task.
[20:05:19] <flyingparchment>	more likely he means the latex extension
[20:05:39] <HypedZJ>	yes it is the latex ext
[20:05:56] <PunkRock>	whats the problem with the equation?
[20:06:34] <HypedZJ>	they show up like this
[20:06:34] <HypedZJ>	Failed to parse (PNG conversion failed; check for correct installation of latex, dvips, gs, and convert): P \,=\,A\cdot\frac{1-\frac{1}{\left(1+r\right)^n}}{r} 
[20:07:13] <orzel>	Simetrical: and it failed...... :(  http://freehackers.pastebin.com/m1035e544
[20:07:30] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: that looks easy to solve.
[20:07:34] <orzel>	this is exactly the table that i had problem with. Although this is still mysql 4.0
[20:08:01] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: dependent on the fact if the wiki runs on your own server or not.
[20:08:51] <HypedZJ>	i have a dedicated server
[20:09:32] <PunkRock>	do you have root access?
[20:10:08] <Dantman|FS>	mmmmmm.... dedicated server...
[20:10:40] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: do you have root access?
[20:10:49] <HypedZJ>	yes
[20:11:08] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: which type of os do you use?
[20:11:18] <HypedZJ>	linux i believe
[20:11:27] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: and in case which distribution?
[20:11:27] <plantguy>	lol
[20:11:46] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ 90% of us use *nix on our servers... but not the same distro...
[20:12:14] <domas>	what about *nux? :)
[20:12:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create the Lower Sorbian Wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12181  +comment (10andnesterov)
[20:13:34] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: can you login there?
[20:14:39] <HypedZJ>	PunkRock: I'm not sure what version but I'm sure its very recent
[20:14:42] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: and if this is done do a: less /etc/issue and tell me what it answers.
[20:15:01] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: did you ever use a console?
[20:15:13] <HypedZJ>	i dont think so
[20:15:36] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: ok. then this will be hard to do.
[20:16:51] <Simetrical>	orzel, I see.  The fix in 1.10.1 didn't fix the update script.  Try manually running the failed query with an appropriate length limitation on the index, if you understand what I mean.
[20:17:45] <orzel>	Simetrical: i'm note sure i know how to do that
[20:18:00] <orzel>	i've tried with 1.10.2 and the update gives no error
[20:18:12] <orzel>	although if i try 1.11 after this, this still wont work
[20:18:26] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: can you switch to private mode?
[20:18:54] <orzel>	Simetrical:  although the error is on a different table now : http://freehackers.pastebin.com/m11437a51
[20:19:20] <Simetrical>	orzel, the change will need to be made for multiple index changes.
[20:19:38] <orzel>	Simetrical:  if i understand well, the 'official' fix is to change the length  of the index
[20:19:47] <Simetrical>	orzel, yes, that's in 1.10.1.
[20:20:24] <orzel>	but.... the update for 1.10.2 worked. I can go with this and upgrade mysql to 5.0* with this ?
[20:20:55] <Simetrical>	orzel, I don't see why not, but don't take my word for it, I've never tried.
[20:21:01] <Simetrical>	My wiki was on 5.0 to start with.
[20:21:21] <orzel>	i'm going to try
[20:27:39] <whiles>	can anyone help me with advanced short urls ?
[20:30:31] <HypedZJ>	PunkRock?
[20:31:31] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: yes?
[20:32:10] <whiles>	I want urls like host.it/Main_page .... So I moved all mediawiki file to the /wiki/ directory. After created a .htaccess file with the rules "RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/wiki.*$ RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://host.com/wiki/index.php?title=$1" ... How must I edit LocalConfig.php to complete the operation ??
[20:32:31] <Dantman|FS>	O_o I wouldn't call those 'advanced' in any ways
[20:32:33] <Dantman|FS>	way*
[20:32:40] <Dantman|FS>	Term is 
[20:32:43] <Dantman|FS>	Null url
[20:32:57] <Dantman|FS>	And it's highly unrecomended
[20:33:08] <whiles>	why?
[20:33:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create the Lower Sorbian Wikipedia - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12181  (10jorohr)
[20:33:24] <Dantman|FS>	Multiple reasons...
[20:33:52] <HypedZJ>	so lets move forward
[20:34:11] <Dantman|FS>	There are issues with the wiki pages intercepting other pages like the api, images, skin stuff, etc...
[20:34:37] <Dantman|FS>	It intercepts /robots.txt and /favicon.ico which most browsers request
[20:34:41] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: did you get my private messages?
[20:34:42] <Dantman|FS>	And breaks them
[20:34:58] <Dantman|FS>	Instead of outputting 404's like it should
[20:35:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create Crimean Tatar Wikipedia (approved by subcommittee) - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12399  +comment (10jorohr)
[20:35:30] <HypedZJ>	i didnt
[20:35:56] <Dantman|FS>	And even if you do make it so that those don't break... You then end up with titles you can't use, but spammers can still create in a hard to delete way.
[20:35:57] <PunkRock>	which irc client do you use?
[20:36:07] <Simetrical>	!shorturls | whiles 
[20:36:07] --mwbot--	whiles : To create simple URLs (such as the /wiki/PAGENAME style URLs on Wikimedia sites), follow the instructions at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL>. There are instructions for most different webserver setups. If you have problems getting the rewrite rules to work, see !rewriteproblem
[20:36:15] <PunkRock>	are you able to use icq?
[20:36:18] <Simetrical>	whiles, see the recommended configuration there.
[20:36:53] <HypedZJ>	im mirc
[20:37:15] <whiles>	but I want the null url configuration :( i tried editing LocalConfig, but with disastrous results
[20:37:16] <orzel>	Simetrical: no, it fails. If i export the databased from my successful update of mediawiki to 1.10.2, and try the import in mysql 5.0, i get the same error : ERROR 1071 (42000) at line 88: Specified key was too long; max key length is 1000 bytes
[20:37:51] <Simetrical>	orzel, did update.php successfully finish?  You can manually alter each of the relevant indexes so that they're less than 1000 bytes.
[20:38:08] <orzel>	yes, it was ok
[20:38:08] <whiles>	I will fix the fixable with the htaccess.... 
[20:38:23] <HypedZJ>	PunkRock, do you have a gmail?
[20:38:27] <HypedZJ>	we can chat over
[20:39:02] <orzel>	Simetrical:  i dont know how to do that. It means modifying this statement, right ? : http://freehackers.pastebin.com/m1c05abb8
[20:39:11] <orzel>	(this is the one where the problem line is)
[20:39:13] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: oh. i think so. i registered once.
[20:39:37] <HypedZJ>	how should we talk?  i got your messages up to about a gift
[20:39:58] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29337 10/trunk/extensions/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Optimization of internationalization file of ChangeAuthor to ['']
[20:40:29] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: thats the private message.
[20:40:48] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: type in your mirc '/q PunkRock'
[20:41:17] <Simetrical>	orzel, you may want to look at the discussion here.  http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1322
[20:41:18] <PunkRock>	HypedZJ: this will bring you in private mode.....maybe....
[20:41:48] <HypedZJ>	ive opened private mode, are you not getting my messages?
[20:43:05] <Simetrical>	orzel, basically, for each key it complains about, you do ALTER TABLE tablename DROP KEY key_it_complains_about, ADD KEY key_it_complains_about (field1(shorter length), field2(shorter length), ...);.
[20:43:33] <Simetrical>	orzel, give me the line it complains about and the surrounding lines, in a pastebin, and I'll tell you what query to execute.
[20:43:46] <HypedZJ>	zjafri06@gmail.com
[20:44:13] <orzel>	Simetrical:  on the pastebin, it complains for the line where the CREATE is... not really useful, is it ?
[20:44:22] <orzel>	there are only two keys, though, no?
[20:45:01] <HypedZJ>	you can gchat with me at that address
[20:45:08] <Simetrical>	orzel, which table?
[20:45:12] <orzel>	i would change the   KEY `cl_sortkey` (`cl_to`,`cl_sortkey`(128)), in   KEY `cl_sortkey` (`cl_to`(128),`cl_sortkey`(128)), ?
[20:45:35] <orzel>	Simetrical:  it's on http://freehackers.pastebin.com/m1c05abb8 I guess the table is "categorylinks' ?
[20:45:56] <Simetrical>	Right.
[20:45:58] <Simetrical>	One second.
[20:46:33] <HypedZJ>	it said email address failed, i give up
[20:47:52] <Simetrical>	orzel, you want to change cl_sortkey to varchar(70) instead of varchar(86) or whatever you have, basically.
[20:49:01] <Simetrical>	orzel, make sure you have a database backup, then try ALTER TABLE categorylinks CHANGE cl_sortkey cl_sortkey varchar(70) binary NOT NULL default '';
[20:49:04] <orzel>	oh, directly the field ?? if i do what i've said, it works (changing the length inside the KEY statement instead of the field statement)
[20:49:23] <orzel>	Simetrical: i'm working on a secondary test db.
[20:49:23] <Simetrical>	You don't want to do it that way.
[20:49:29] <Simetrical>	Good plan.  :)
[20:49:42] <orzel>	Simetrical: oh?ok. i'll trust you on this. So i change the field length. /me trying
[20:49:45] <Simetrical>	You want to truncate the cl_sortkey column itself, then have the index on (cl_to, cl_sortkey).
[20:50:04] <Simetrical>	This is fine because it's only a sort key, after all, so if two columns incorrectly collide it hardly matters.
[20:50:35] <Simetrical>	Truncating the lengths in the index would be possible but probably not a good idea, MySQL might have trouble using them properly if they don't cover the whole column.
[20:50:58] <orzel>	but i already have `cl_sortkey` varchar(255) , and  KEY `cl_sortkey` (`cl_to`,`cl_sortkey`(128)),
[20:51:10] <orzel>	this is the original, before i change. So it was wrong already ?
[20:51:36] <orzel>	i'm just afraid i break something that will show up in 5 years
[20:52:12] <Simetrical>	You mean that's your current table definition, or what?
[20:52:13] <HypedZJ>	anyone have the purge function handy?
[20:52:20] <Simetrical>	Oh, it breaks when you're importing the data?
[20:52:24] <Simetrical>	I see, that makes sense.
[20:52:34] <Simetrical>	HypedZJ, you mean adding ?action=purge to the URL?
[20:52:35] <orzel>	Simetrical: yes, current table as exported by mysql
[20:52:50] <HypedZJ>	yes
[20:52:51] <HypedZJ>	thanks
[20:53:04] <Simetrical>	orzel, aha.  You upgraded to 1.10.2 before you dumped?  (Should have been to 1.11.0, really.)
[20:53:34] <orzel>	i upgraded to 1.10.2 and and dumped. BEcause the update for 1.11.0 failed.......
[20:53:36] <Simetrical>	orzel, but you said it gave you some errors, or something?  What you posted is not the 1.10.2 tables.sql definition, I don't think.
[20:53:37] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[20:53:41] <Simetrical>	One moment.
[20:53:48] <orzel>	Simetrical: it is
[20:54:41] <Simetrical>	orzel, this is what your table definitions should look like.  http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/REL1_10/phase3/maintenance/tables.sql?revision=21729&view=markup&pathrev=23247
[20:54:54] <Simetrical>	(Minus the comments, of course.)
[20:55:11] <orzel>	i did what you suggested and put the length for cl_sortkey, but this doesn't work. I think this is because cl_to is 255
[20:56:10] <Simetrical>	(255+70)*3 = 975 < 1000
[20:56:19] <orzel>	Simetrical: i dont know what happened. I had a mediawiki 1.6.*, i updated (successfully) to 1.10.2. This is confirmed by Special:Version. Then i dumped the base....
[20:56:26] <Simetrical>	orzel, honestly, I'm not the best one to talk about this.  TimStarling is the one who fixed this up.
[20:56:42] <Simetrical>	If you can get hold of him, I suspect he would be more helpful.
[20:57:01] <orzel>	Simetrical: I'm quite surprised, does that mean that so few people update to mysql >4.1 ???
[20:58:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[20:58:36] <Simetrical>	orzel, dunno.  I assume that not everyone who does has these problems, because I don't hear them often.
[20:59:00] <Simetrical>	You're the first one to complain of this in here that I can remember since shortly after we released 1.10.1, I think, although my memory may be faulty.
[21:00:14] <orzel>	Simetrical: i dont think i did anything fancy. i dont even use any plugin or whatever. I can't update to mysql because of the tables in mediawiki, and i can't update mediawiki. This is weird
[21:00:36] <orzel>	and i dont know how to change those tables in a safe way
[21:01:27] <orzel>	[2008-01-06 21:56] <Simetrical> (255+70)*3 = 975 < 1000     <- this, i dont understand, it is (255+255)*3 to me (both cl_to and cl_sort are 255, see my pastebin)
[21:02:00] <Simetrical>	orzel, I told you, make cl_sortkey into cl_sortkey(70).
[21:02:12] <Simetrical>	Then (cl_to, cl_sortkey) will be less than 1000 bytes.
[21:05:00] <orzel>	Simetrical:  ok. but i need to remove the (12i) in KEY `cl_sortkey` (`cl_to`,`cl_sortkey`(128)),
[21:05:13] <Simetrical>	orzel, yes, do that.
[21:05:26] <Simetrical>	orzel, refer to the tables.sql file I linked to above for the correct schema, if you have any further issues.
[21:06:07] <orzel>	Simetrical: ok. I guess the update scripts are not as great as i thought. It seems my table doesn't look like the one it should in 1.10.2, that would explains the failure of 1.12 update
[21:06:20] <orzel>	i hope i can manage all further issues. :)
[21:06:28] <orzel>	Simetrical:  thanks a lot for your time anyway
[21:09:50] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29338 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Add acr_areas field
[21:35:31] <Warpath>	^_^
[21:40:24] <CIA-40>	03nikerabbit * r29339 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (7 files): * Experimental support for some extensions in export.php
[21:40:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10darklama)
[21:44:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[21:49:38] <CIA-40>	03aaron * r29340 10/trunk/extensions/ConfirmAccount/archives/patch-acr_areas.sql: Add acd_areas too
[21:56:48] <CIA-40>	03huji * r29341 10/trunk/extensions/ (AntiSpoof/AntiSpoof_i18n.php AssertEdit/AssertEdit.i18n.php): Added Persian translations
[21:59:30] <CIA-40>	03huji * r29342 10/trunk/extensions/BookInformation/BookInformation.i18n.php: Added Persian translations
[22:01:24] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Set svn:eol native for two files - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12533 trivial; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (alex.emsenhuber)
[22:02:12] <CIA-40>	03huji * r29343 10/trunk/extensions/BoardVote/BoardVote.i18n.php: Added Persian translations
[22:08:27] <darkcode>	Simetrical, I don't understand what your trying to suggest a HeadScriptsBeforeSiteFiles hook for, why make it a hook? Why not $tpl->set('extjs', ...) in SkinTemplate.php?
[22:08:53] <CIA-40>	03huji * r29344 10/trunk/extensions/ (22 files in 22 dirs): Added Persian translations
[22:09:02] <Simetrical>	darkcode, either way.  It's not the implementation that concerns me.
[22:09:16] <darkcode>	ok
[22:09:17] <Simetrical>	Honestly I try to stay away from SkinTemplate stuff as much as possible, so it's no surprise I don't know how headscripts is implemented.  :)
[22:10:11] <darkcode>	my suggestion is to make a new MediaWiki page basically, so you got a before and after page, since the css file order is fine as is, but if you change the order for the js file
[22:10:31] <darkcode>	then you got some people who lose out on being able to override extension's javascript
[22:10:52] <darkcode>	who don't like that as much as not being able to use common functions inside gadgets
[22:10:57] <Simetrical>	But you have to provide two Common.js's, which do almost exactly the same thing.
[22:11:18] <Simetrical>	Things that provide stuff Common.js might want to use should go before it, things that might want to use Common.js stuff should go after it.
[22:11:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Template parameters unavailable to XML-style parser tags - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2257  (10rene.kijewski)
[22:11:57] <Simetrical>	Specifically, any JS that's hard-coded into an extension should go before Common.js, but stuff that allows user modification in a more restricted sense than Common.js does should go after it.
[22:11:57] <darkcode>	what about things that want to use stuff before and after?
[22:12:08] <Simetrical>	Add two different scripts.
[22:12:19] <Simetrical>	Gadgets can put global Gadgets JS code before, and the actual gadgets after.
[22:12:28] <Simetrical>	Do you have some use-case you're thinking of where that model is problematic?
[22:12:29] <Syntux>	Just installed MediaWiki but when I try to edit a page it prompt downloading index.php (Main_Page) and it has the following content, http://paste.syntux.net/bin/17   any idea what would be the problem ?
[22:12:53] <Simetrical>	Syntux, if you have "Use external editor" on in your preferences, turn it off.
[22:13:54] <Syntux>	Simetrical, that option should be in LocalSettings.php right?
[22:14:01] <Syntux>	ah right
[22:14:05] <Syntux>	account prefs, Okie
[22:15:33] <darkcode>	well I noticed some uses where a gadget consisted of simply something like option = false; to disable features in Common.js
[22:20:33] <CIA-40>	03huji * r29345 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/README: About having extensions installed in a different directory.
[22:20:36] <darkcode>	if both ways are allowed, extensions could have default javascript settings that can be overridden site-wide rather then on a per-user bases
[22:21:12] <darkcode>	reducing the need to have a separate MediaWiki page for each extension
[22:22:11] <darkcode>	just as much as having one before reduces the need to have more then one MediaWiki page to store common functions in
[22:22:27] <darkcode>	for use by extensions
[22:24:42] <darkcode>	the before page is more likely to contain common functions that would reduce duplications by extensions like gadgets, and the after page contain javascript settings and code that override any extension supplied javascript
[22:25:56] <darkcode>	without both, an extension is forced to supply one or the other if they wish to allow customization, or users have to duplicate code
[22:26:58] <darkcode>	anyways if its not a problem for you or anyone else, I guess I can write the code to supply a MediaWiki:Extensions.js page
[22:30:13] <Simetrical>	darkcode, I'm saying that each extension should be allowed to have pages loaded before Common.js and pages loaded after, as it pleases.  Why does that not work just as well with less hassle for admins trying to maintain the site JS?
[22:30:14] <CIA-40>	03grondin * r29346 10/trunk/extensions/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Localisation updates for extensions from Betawiki (2008-01-06 22:15 UTC)
[22:30:21] <Simetrical>	I get the impression we're talking past each other.
[22:33:10] <darkcode>	maybe we are. I don't agree that extensions should be able to override any specific site-wide needs
[22:33:48] <Simetrical>	Extensions can execute arbitrary code and can do whatever they want.  And should be able to.
[22:34:04] <Simetrical>	However, in practice, few should need to do anything after the site code.
[22:34:17] <Simetrical>	The enforcement of this is the responsibility of the extension author, not the core software.
[22:34:26] <Simetrical>	The core software doesn't protect you from stupid extensions, and shouldn't try to.
[22:35:01] <Simetrical>	The one installing the extension is the one who knows what they want, not the people writing MediaWiki, and if (as here) it's appropriate to execute after site code, it should.
[22:36:33] <darkcode>	its not about the core software protecting anyone
[22:37:40] <darkcode>	its about allowing people who are given the tools, a way to deal with specific needs as the community wishes, without having to modify the extension itself
[22:39:06] <MinuteElectron>	darkcode: As is often the case round here, if you want something code it yourself - it is no ones responsibility to do it for you as we are all volunteers - your ideas may have merit, but if you're not going to put in the coding they are worthless.
[22:39:19] <Simetrical>	MinuteElectron, he has to find someone to commit it too.
[22:39:31] <darkcode>	MinutedElectron, I was offering to do it
[22:39:44] <Simetrical>	I'm against it and will argue against anyone who tries to commit it, so coding it without guarantees is not a good idea at this point.
[22:39:51] <darkcode>	we're simply discussing whether its worth doing
[22:39:55] <Simetrical>	darkcode, what's wrong with changing the extension to take advantage of a new hook?
[22:40:46] <darkcode>	well that defeats the point of refusing MediaWiki pages, which was one of the reasons you were giving, if every extension that wants it has to use the hook to supply a page
[22:40:57] <darkcode>	err of reducing MediaWiki pages
[22:41:06] <Simetrical>	darkcode, not to supply a page.  It will just put all the gadgets after Common.js.
[22:41:14] <Simetrical>	Using the new hook (or however it's implemented).
[22:42:30] <aBSDaemon>	Hello
[22:42:45] <Simetrical>	Hello.
[22:42:52] <darkcode>	Simetrical, it also forces extension makers to choice between one or other, rather then being able to get benefits from both
[22:43:20] <Simetrical>	darkcode, why would they ever need one block of code to both get services from Common.js and provide services to it?
[22:44:07] <Simetrical>	darkcode, either 1) it's hardcoded, and it cannot use Common.js services.
[22:44:45] <darkcode>	maybe provide two hooks...
[22:45:06] <Simetrical>	Or 2) it's not hardcoded, and either 2a) it provides JS more narrowly than Common.js (i.e., not on every view for every user), in which case Common.js cannot rely upon it and it should go after; or 2b) it provides JS on every page view for every user -- so why not use Common.js?
[22:45:10] <darkcode>	BeforeSiteScripts, AfterSiteScripts
[22:45:12] <Simetrical>	darkcode, that's what I've been saying.
[22:45:54] <aBSDaemon>	Anyone here that was online yesterday when I was talking about a MW extensions repository?
[22:46:19] <Simetrical>	aBSDaemon, I wasn't online then.  We have one, it's in SVN . . .
[22:47:57] <darkcode>	well I think if something comes after it, there needs to be some page, maybe MediaWiki:GlobalPreferences.js or whatever for changing it
[22:48:01] <aBSDaemon>	The discussion we were having yesterday was around the point that some extensions are cut'n paste code, some in SVN, and others provided via downloads in a .zip/.rar/ etc. format.  
[22:48:09] <Simetrical>	darkcode, why?
[22:48:40] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29347 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/Translate.i18n.php: First commit with extension export. Sweet ;)
[22:48:42] <Simetrical>	aBSDaemon, ideally they should mostly be in SVN.  This allows them to be easily localized and adapted to changes in the main software.
[22:51:05] <darkcode>	why, shouldn't people be able to make changes to extensions that use JS or CSS on a site-wide level?
[22:51:15] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: but otoh, that would mean you have to give commit access to all extension authors, which is generally not wanted. you'd need a separate repos per author or something... and write access to each for the core devs. a pain to manage
[22:51:39] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, yes, that's why I said "ideally".  :)
[22:51:51] <Duesentrieb>	ideal from some point of view
[22:51:59] <Duesentrieb>	fucking mess from another
[22:52:15] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, yes, but you're talking implementation details.  I'm talking ideals.  We don't worry about implementation, ideally.
[22:52:37] <aBSDaemon>	Well, I'm working on implementation.  
[22:52:38] <Duesentrieb>	we don't worry at all, ideally :)
[22:52:51] <aBSDaemon>	http://www.ugconnect.com/mwext/  
[22:52:52] <darkcode>	that was one of the reasons for moving them to begin with, was it not?
[22:53:04] <darkcode>	and someone filed a bug report for it
[22:53:04] <Simetrical>	darkcode, if the extension wants to make its JS globally editable, it can.  I believe Gadgets, which is the only extension people are suggesting for this, does allow admins to edit gadgets, yes?
[22:53:08] <aBSDaemon>	Where I'm developing while I wait for the hosting account and domain names to resolve
[22:53:22] *Simetrical 	has never looked at Gadgets . . .
[22:53:48] <Duesentrieb>	aBSDaemon: wrt domain name... i would go for somethign short, like mwex or something
[22:54:10] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: oh, yea... did you see my comment about your change to include order?
[22:54:23] <aBSDaemon>	mwextensions.com was going to be my thoughts
[22:54:24] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, haven't darkcode and I been arguing over that here for the past hour?
[22:54:53] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: i don't know, i wasn't paying attention to this channel :) i was just wondering if you saw the comment on bugzilla.
[22:54:57] <darkcode>	yes, what I'm talking about is more like how LocalSettings.php is setup to load DefaultSettings.php to include a bunch of default settings, not needing to override some extensions's js completely, but building on it
[22:55:06] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, I thought I responded there, too?
[22:55:35] <Simetrical>	darkcode, I don't get the analogy, sorry?
[22:55:56] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: possible, hav't checked :) i was busy refactoring my dipoma project today. i just blundered sideways into your discussion now, while procrastenating a bit on irc.
[22:56:04] *Duesentrieb 	goes to check bugzilla mail
[22:56:54] <darkcode>	ok, people should be able to build-on extensions, just as much as extensions should be able to build on MediaWiki:Common.js, without having to necessarily modify an extension's js directly
[22:57:39] *Duesentrieb 	shakes fist at bugzilla for not automatically adding me to cc when i comment on stuff
[22:57:47] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, configure your preferences right.
[22:58:07] <Simetrical>	darkcode, so why should modifications to special-purpose scripts not loaded on every view be added to a new page that *is* loaded on every view?
[22:58:41] <Simetrical>	Providing Gadgets-editing code for those not loading the Gadget doesn't make sense.  Load the code with the Gadget.
[22:59:21] <darkcode>	that's what I was suggesting Simetrical, only load MediaWiki:Extensions.js or MediaWiki:GlobalPreferences.js when an extension's js is loaded
[22:59:39] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29348 10/trunk/extensions/Renameuser/SpecialRenameuser.i18n.php: * rebuild of localisation file, hu updated
[22:59:50] <Simetrical>	Extensions may load any amount of JS in any configuration for any users, it may be dynamically generated, it may be anything.
[23:00:00] <Duesentrieb>	hmm... actually, i'm in the cc list... mail must have gone to the spam bucket or something. bah.
[23:00:36] <Simetrical>	You're saying have a single page that modifies all extensions' JS, which is loaded whether or not it's needed, and which is stored separately from the extension's JS.
[23:00:40] <Simetrical>	Let's be concrete.
[23:00:47] <Simetrical>	1) Is there any problem with my suggestion for Gadgets?
[23:01:00] <Simetrical>	2) Can you think of any other plausible extension where there would be a problem?
[23:01:25] <Simetrical>	If the answers are no and no, then I'm just going to have to disagree with you.
[23:01:36] <darkcode>	well I was also suggesting if the Gadgets extension is the only extension with this problem, provide a MediaWiki:Gadgets-common.js file inside the extension
[23:02:04] <Simetrical>	Doesn't it already let sysops modify Gadgets?
[23:02:14] <darkcode>	yes
[23:02:26] <Simetrical>	If so, why do you need a single unified file that's loaded after all the gadgets?  What could it possibly do?
[23:02:30] <darkcode>	the problem people are wanting fixed is a way to provide common code for all gadgets
[23:02:35] <Simetrical>	Right.
[23:02:38] <Simetrical>	So put it in Common.js.
[23:02:44] <Simetrical>	And load the gadgets *after* that.
[23:02:46] <Simetrical>	Problem solved.
[23:03:02] <darkcode>	what I'm saying is that the Gadgets-common.js would come before the specific gadget code that is loaded
[23:03:21] <Simetrical>	So would Common.js.
[23:03:24] <Duesentrieb>	all gadgets needing the global code could "include" (list) the conteal js snippet. doable, but a bit annoying.
[23:03:35] <darkcode>	eg 1) gadget-common, then the gadget, then common.js
[23:03:40] <Duesentrieb>	it would be nicer if gadget code would be loaded after common.js/common.css, but before the user js/css
[23:03:50] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, right, that's all that's necessary.
[23:04:04] <Simetrical>	darkcode, why not Common.js, then the gadget, and no extra bits?
[23:04:10] <Simetrical>	I still don't understand your objection to that.
[23:04:13] <Duesentrieb>	but for most extensions, loading the js they provide before common.js/css would be the right thing
[23:04:29] <Duesentrieb>	(because you want per-site overrrides)
[23:04:42] <darkcode>	right, so why should Gadgets be an exception?
[23:04:51] <darkcode>	let Gadgets provide its own common file
[23:04:52] <Simetrical>	Because Gadgets code is user-customizable.
[23:04:54] <Duesentrieb>	the question is: how to get it right for gadgets, and for otehr extensions, at once?
[23:05:08] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, just allow the extension to decide to load either before or after Common.js.
[23:05:30] <darkcode>	Duesentrieb, allow there to be both a before and after file as-needed
[23:05:48] <Simetrical>	When I changed the load order, I said that there would be no reason for an extension to need anything from Common.js, since extension authors don't know about Common.js.
[23:05:57] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: indeed. but instead of creating some specific magic, i would suggest to allow all code that registers js/css to specify a "slot"
[23:06:07] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, precisely.
[23:06:08] <Duesentrieb>	and define standard slots for some stuff.
[23:06:13] <Duesentrieb>	ok, cool :)
[23:06:52] <darkcode>	well it seems to be with slots there would be a need to have a MediaWiki page for each slot to have the maximum benefit
[23:06:53] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, specifically I would say just add another possible load point for extensions to register for, after Common.js is loaded.  Gadgets can then use the new one and get loaded after, everything else can stay before.
[23:07:09] <Duesentrieb>	the quick and dirty way would of course be to have MediaWiki:Gadgets-common.js. but that sucks.
[23:07:21] <Simetrical>	Agreed.
[23:07:31] <darkcode>	I also suggested loading MediaWiki:Common.js twice
[23:07:38] <Simetrical>	That's a really bad idea.
[23:07:44] <Simetrical>	It's not remotely expected.
[23:08:00] <Simetrical>	darkcode, I think it's about time we give up this argument.  Neither one of us can convince the other.  If you want to make your suggestion to another dev, feel free.
[23:08:06] <Duesentrieb>	well... just adding one specific new load point mains introducing special cases. which i dislike. a general slotted way to do stuff, with a default that reflects the current behavior, would be nicer
[23:08:18] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, so like having priorities or something.
[23:08:26] <Duesentrieb>	yes.
[23:08:41] <Simetrical>	Hmm.  Seems overly complicated.
[23:08:44] <Simetrical>	And general.
[23:08:46] <Duesentrieb>	like the numbers used for startup-scripts in system-v init :)
[23:08:51] <Simetrical>	I guess it would be necessary if two extensions interfered.
[23:08:52] <darkcode>	Simetrical, maybe for now work on breaking up the need to have both CSS and JS extension together, can yo agree to that?
[23:08:55] <Simetrical>	Or otherwise interacted.
[23:09:07] <Simetrical>	darkcode, I don't understand what you mean?
[23:09:31] <darkcode>	I mean right now the header for loading extension files includes both JS and CSS
[23:09:52] <Simetrical>	darkcode, . . . so?  There's nothing problematic with mixing <head> items.
[23:09:53] <darkcode>	split it into two parts, so the CSS can at least remain always before the site-wide ones
[23:10:01] <Duesentrieb>	darkcode: hm? the machnism for adding either is the same. is that what you mean?
[23:10:11] <Simetrical>	darkcode, CSS may interact with JS.
[23:10:15] <Simetrical>	In a variety of ways.
[23:10:22] <Simetrical>	As well as, of course, with CSS.
[23:10:27] <Simetrical>	It needs to respect load order just the same.
[23:10:37] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, it's fairly common for hook architectures to provide priorities generally, in fact.  Maybe we should implement that for all hooks, and make this a special case.  \o/
[23:10:47] <Duesentrieb>	gadgets may well want to override default css.
[23:11:07] <Duesentrieb>	in fact, we already have that. a gadget for color-blind people, on dewiki
[23:11:30] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, but really, init needs to know to load the network services before it starts sshd and httpd and so on.  I'm not sure there's any comparable reason for a typical extension to want fine-grained control over their position.
[23:11:33] <darkcode>	well right now having gadget's and the syntaxhighlighting css before the site-wide allows for customizing for example the syntax color of certain source languages site-wide
[23:12:12] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, we could just add an extra optional parameter to the head items insertion function, which most extensions could ignore.  That seems reasonable.
[23:12:37] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: well... maybe. but this is not a hook at all. i was thinking the addHeader (or addScript or whatever) methods in OutputPage. it should collect stuff into an assoc array, the keys being the priorities. instead of appending to a single string, you append to the sring for "your" priority. in teh end, the entire thing is imploded in the order of prop keys.
[23:12:52] <Simetrical>	Seems reasonable.
[23:12:52] <Duesentrieb>	the only effort needed is defining constants to represent the standard prios/slots
[23:12:56] <CIA-40>	03siebrand * r29349 10/trunk/extensions/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Adding some author credits (more semi-automated export testing)
[23:12:59] <Simetrical>	Most extensions don't need it, but no harm in making it available.
[23:13:12] <Simetrical>	One comment is that it may as well allow arbitrary numbers, not just integers.
[23:13:26] <Duesentrieb>	and yes, and extra optional parameter for the prio/slot is the way to go. it would probably be "put it at the end", which used to be the default thing, until recently.
[23:13:49] <Simetrical>	No, the default should be before site-modified stuff.
[23:14:08] <Simetrical>	Most extension things are hardcoded, they aren't going to need to use Common.js/Common.css/etc.
[23:14:11] <darkcode>	Simetrical, maybe there should be a MediaWiki:Priority page so people can force a priority order and whether an extension's js or css come before or after the Common.css file
[23:14:15] <Duesentrieb>	hm... the default for extensions, maybe... would need to be carful about the way those functions are used by core code
[23:14:39] <Duesentrieb>	darkcode: no. that should be up to the extension. it makes sense to hard-code it there
[23:14:44] <Simetrical>	darkcode, better for the extension author to decide.  Fiddling with load order by sysops is possible, but I don't see any great benefit.
[23:15:10] <Simetrical>	Duesentrieb, currently I think we don't use the head-items thing half the time.  I know that MonoBook.php hardcodes a whole bunch of head items.
[23:15:46] <Duesentrieb>	Simetrical: beware that we have to mind two things: head-items in parser output (i.e. per-page stuff), and global head-items, in outputpage
[23:16:03] <Duesentrieb>	(the former gets pushed into the latter at some point, of course)
[23:16:08] <Simetrical>	I was only thinking of the OutputPage function, parser output can do head items too?
[23:16:14] <Simetrical>	Oh, I see.
[23:16:15] <Duesentrieb>	yes
[23:16:16] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[23:16:37] <Simetrical>	Well, it certainly seems that the current behavior is the correct default for the OutputPage function, IMO.
[23:16:41] <Duesentrieb>	actually, i think the term "head items" isn't used in the outputpage class at all (yet). 
[23:16:50] <Simetrical>	That is, loading after core files, before site-customized files.
[23:17:09] <Duesentrieb>	the way header snippets are treated by outputpage and by the two skin architectures is a mess. it could use a good overhaul.
[23:17:43] <Duesentrieb>	for most extensions, yes. core -> ext -> site -> user
[23:17:56] <Simetrical>	Well, one thing at a time.  Unless you want to overhaul it, there's no point in delaying fixing the issue to do it that much more cleanly.
[23:18:02] <Duesentrieb>	for gadgets, core -> site -> gadgets -> user
[23:18:49] <Duesentrieb>	yea, sure... but somtimes its easier to throw out the mess, than to understand all its implications in order to get the fix right :)
[23:18:56] <darkcode>	It doesn't make sense, users can modify extension's css and javascript, but admins can't for the entire site
[23:19:35] <Duesentrieb>	sadly, i don't have time to mess with it myself right now... which reminds me, i need to get back to my diploma project. it's past midnight, and there are still todo items on my scrap paper :/
[23:19:46] <Duesentrieb>	darkcode: huh?
[23:20:04] <Duesentrieb>	darkcode: with the order we just talked about, they sure can.
[23:20:17] <Duesentrieb>	core -> ext -> site -> user
[23:20:52] <darkcode>	I'm talking about if that's changed for gadgets, but it would become core -> site -> ext -> user
[23:21:04] <darkcode>	because it would become
[23:21:51] <Duesentrieb>	but that would be *only* for *that* extension. which makes sense, because the extension itself does not provide any js or css to override. instead, it loads site-wide custom snippets on demand.
[23:22:02] <Duesentrieb>	which should happen just after the "normal" site-wide stuff.
[23:24:51] <darkcode>	well being the only exception makes no sense. If all extensions are suppose to be independent of it, so should gadgets. Gadgets can remain independent of it by providing its own page for sharing functions between gadgets
[23:25:34] <darkcode>	rather then relying on Common.js
[23:27:05] <Duesentrieb>	think about it this way: gadgets provides a way to easily enable user scripts, using a checkbox instead of copy&paste. user scripts can rely on global scripts from common.js. so should the snippets (this also makes porting much easier).
[23:27:29] <Duesentrieb>	providing a general way for extensions and other code to specify the include order of js and css makes sense to me. 
[23:27:40] <Duesentrieb>	it simply puts control of those things where it belongs.
[23:28:15] <Duesentrieb>	anyway, back to ajava
[23:29:00] <darkcode>	see I'm mixed between the two, I think both make sense, that's why I think both should be allowed, site admins need control over extensions, and extensions sometimes need to benefit from stuff that site admins provide
[23:29:47] <darkcode>	if you only do one or the other, then extensions can't benefit from both
[23:31:25] <darkcode>	and site admins can't benefit from both
[23:34:31] <darkcode>	I understand the benefits and agree its a benefit to allow Gadgets or other extensions to make use of Common.js or Common.css. I also see it as being a benefit for site owners to be able to continue to override an extension's css or js if they need or want to
[23:34:36] <CIA-40>	03nikerabbit * r29350 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (MessageGroups.php Translate.php export.php): * Ugly fileexporting support support or something
[23:35:21] <darkcode>	if extension's js or css come after the site one, then users are stuck again with having to copy&paste
[23:53:11] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[23:54:40] <CIA-40>	03nikerabbit * r29351 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/SpecialTranslationChanges.php: * Export hint for extension that support it