[00:06:44] <CIA-41>	03yaron * r29907 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/specials/ (SF_AddData.php SF_EditData.php): Form page title is now settable from a new, fourth, return value of formHTML()
[00:14:42] <CIA-41>	03yaron * r29909 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_FormClasses.inc: Output of 'CreateForm' page is now in wiki-text instead of HTML
[00:15:02] <CIA-41>	03yaron * r29910 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/ (INSTALL includes/SF_GlobalFunctions.php): New version - 0.9
[00:25:42] <Simetrical>	Yay, I'm getting French e-mail company spam to my Wikibugs address.
[00:30:56] *Skizzerz 	gives out a reCAPTCHA for his email address
[00:31:37] <Skizzerz>	granted, only to view the address, not to send stuff to it -- reCAPTCHA doesn't have that yet :(
[00:32:45] <Simetrical>	The clever thing is that I can change my Bugzilla address to Simetrical+wikibugs2@gmail.com and then have a filter mark all messages to +wikibugs as spam.
[00:33:02] <Simetrical>	Except I'd inevitably forget that I changed the address.
[00:33:08] <Skizzerz>	:P
[00:33:31] <Splarka>	si.me.tric.al@gmail.com tricks are fun too
[00:48:45] <sime>	Can add inline styles to a ==Heading== ?
[00:49:06] <TimStarling>	you can use <h2 style="...">
[00:50:29] <GhostlyDeath>	it seems I am getting a "Can't write config file, aborting" error when I have allowed everyone to write in the config folder
[00:50:37] <sime>	so you mean <h2 style="">Heading</h2>  ?
[00:52:04] <flyingparchment>	Simetrical: then all your bug mail will show up as spam
[00:52:41] <Simetrical>	flyingparchment, no, first I'll change my Bugzilla e-mail address to Simetrical+wikibugs2@gmail.com.  And rotate as the spammers catch up.
[00:52:51] <Simetrical>	(By filtering +wikibugs I obviously meant filtering Simetrical+wikibugs@gmail.com.)
[00:52:57] <flyingparchment>	Skizzerz: requiring any form of verification for people who mail you is a bad idea, because people will just not do it
[00:53:02] <Simetrical>	That's the theory, anyway.  In practice spam isn't such an issue that I care.
[00:53:30] <Skizzerz>	flyingparchment: no, it's a thing to SEE what my email is, once they know it (or if they get it elsewhere) there are no restriction
[00:53:43] <flyingparchment>	Skizzerz: yes, you then said 'not to send stuff to it yet'
[00:54:07] <Simetrical>	I've wondered before if there are e-mail spammers who just hack routers and have a little program that checks for SMTP packets and records involved e-mail addresses.
[00:54:38] <Simetrical>	If so, they'll always get your address sooner or later, if you use it (unless all e-mail to and from is encrypted).
[00:55:07] <Simetrical>	SMTPS is used by major e-mail providers like Gmail, but I don't think it's usually used by random sites, is it?
[00:55:10] <Splarka>	there was a blogging a few years ago about some experiments...
[00:55:36] <Splarka>	some guy created dozens of hotmail email addies, and other random providers, and never gave them out and never used them
[00:55:44] <Splarka>	and some of them started getting spam after a few weeks
[00:56:22] <flyingparchment>	Simetrical: hm, when i send STARTTLS to gmail, it claims unrecognised command
[01:05:04] <Simetrical>	Hmm, true, the MX server I picked doesn't report STARTTLS support and doesn't recognize the command.
[01:05:07] <Simetrical>	Oh well, then.
[01:09:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  It should be possible to enter expiry dates for edit and move protection separately - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12650  +comment (10lunasantin)
[01:13:33] *amidaniel 	sighs at bug 12650
[01:15:36] <Splarka>	protect from edits: 'sysop', reduce to 'autoconfirmed' after [   ] days, reduce to 'user' after [    ] days, reduce to '*' after [   ] days
[01:15:48] <Splarka>	protect from moves: 'sysop', reduce to 'autoconfirmed' after [   ] days, reduce to 'user' after [    ] days
[01:15:50] *Splarka 	giggles
[01:17:06] <Simetrical>	Advanced: [+] PHP code to decide what the protection level should be at time $t: [                                                              ]
[01:17:44] *amidaniel 	sends Splarka back to Uncyclopedia
[01:18:55] <Splarka>	[           ] comma delimited list of epoch ranges when this page should be editable by user group 'founder'
[01:18:58] <Splarka>	[           ] comma delimited list of epoch ranges when this page should be editable by user group 'bureaucrat'
[01:19:02] <Splarka>	[           ] comma delimited list of epoch ranges when this page should be editable by user group 'sysop'  ... etc
[01:20:05] <Splarka>	1200619102-120063000,120065000-120069000
[01:20:28] <Splarka>	Sim: you can't make it *too* hard
[01:22:09] <MrZ-man>	I tried configuring my test wiki to allow for protection for levels higher than sysop and things other than edit/move, it didn't like that
[01:22:19] <amidaniel>	I rather prefer a system where the protection specifies a number of edits that a user must have to edit it. Then the number of edits required to edit the page decays at a rate specified by the protecting admin. Could be a linear decay, but more sensible as a logarithmic decay.
[01:22:25] <amidaniel>	Then of course the same thing for moves as well.
[01:23:07] <amidaniel>	Things like being autoconfirmed or a sysop can then count in as a multiplier of the number of edits that the user has. So a sysop with 5000 edits would be treated as a regular user with 25000 edits.
[01:23:11] <amidaniel>	Sound good?
[01:23:14] <MrZ-man>	edit=bureaucrat, protect=bureaucrat was quite ugly
[01:23:17] *amidaniel 	goes to open a bug
[01:23:39] <Splarka>	ami: the protection level should also be configurable by the number of hits for that article title on the main pages of news organizations in a week
[01:23:52] <Splarka>	"Protect [[Anna Nicole Smith]] for 5 mentions per week or more"
[01:24:00] <amidaniel>	Splarka: But of course! I just wanted to provide a general overview.
[01:24:11] <MrZ-man>	and delete-protection was pretty horrible 
[01:24:28] <Simetrical>	amidaniel, that sounds crazy.  :D
[01:24:34] <Simetrical>	Seriously, this is what bots are for.
[01:24:45] <Skizzerz>	MrZ-man: if things are edit-protected at a higher level than sysop, then IIRC sysop cannot delete or unprotect
[01:24:51] <Simetrical>	There's no point in trying to write such flexible interfaces.
[01:24:56] <Splarka>	MrZ-man: you saw the new user right 'bigdelete' ?
[01:25:02] <MrZ-man>	yes
[01:25:02] <Simetrical>	Of course enwiki doesn't usually allow admin bots, but it's not our problem if they're morons.
[01:25:12] <amidaniel>	Hehe
[01:25:14] <amidaniel>	Agreed :)
[01:25:24] <Majorly>	Simetrical: they may not be allowed, doesn't mean they aren't run
[01:25:31] <Simetrical>	That too.
[01:25:35] <MrZ-man>	to delete a delete=bureaucrat protected page I had to use Special:Nuke, regular deletion didn't work 
[01:25:38] <Splarka>	most admins with bots just have the bot login to their admin account
[01:25:44] <Majorly>	yep
[01:25:47] <amidaniel>	Well, I personally didn't really see the need for expiries on protection myself .. stretching much further than that is just asanine
[01:25:57] <amidaniel>	Majorly: There is actually one approved by the BAG and RFA :)
[01:26:00] <Simetrical>	MrZ-man, how did you get such a page?
[01:26:03] <Majorly>	lol @ giving bureaucrats the right
[01:26:04] <Splarka>	(if they need to delete, edit protected, protect, whatever)
[01:26:05] <Skizzerz>	at least on my local 1.12 install, when I edit protect to steward, then logout and log back in on a bureaucrat account, that account cannot unprotect or delete the page
[01:26:09] <Majorly>	amidaniel: yes I know
[01:26:27] <Simetrical>	Having a higher protection level than 'protect' is semi-ridiculous.
[01:26:39] <Simetrical>	Well, except that I guess someone changed it so you can't protect/unprotect a page you can't edit.
[01:26:41] <MrZ-man>	Simetrical: messing with LocalSettings on my wiki
[01:26:42] <Simetrical>	So I suppose it works.
[01:26:45] <Skizzerz>	Simetrical: no, it's entirely ridiculous :)
[01:26:48] <amidaniel>	Yeah, I dunno .. I sort of liked semiprotection
[01:26:54] <amidaniel>	And it has been used quite well
[01:26:58] <Simetrical>	Yes, certainly.
[01:26:59] <zenkat>	hello ... anyone here familiar with the wikimedia data dumps?
[01:27:00] <amidaniel>	Sort of antiwiki, but whatever :)
[01:27:09] <Simetrical>	Better than full protection.  *shrug*
[01:27:10] <Skizzerz>	considering anybody that can protect can protect the page above their level
[01:27:18] <Simetrical>	zenkat, mainly brion-away, who appears to be away.
[01:27:27] <Simetrical>	Skizzerz, yes, you're right, it's still entirely ridiculous.
[01:27:30] <MrZ-man>	I was able to create a page that could not be edited, unprotected, or deleted through normal means :P
[01:27:36] <zenkat>	ahhh, thanks.  I'll try back later.
[01:27:41] <Simetrical>	Am I remembering right that people can't unprotect pages that they can't edit?
[01:27:49] <Skizzerz>	that is true
[01:27:50] <MrZ-man>	Simetrical: yes
[01:27:53] <Simetrical>	MrZ-man, even if you were a bureaucrat?
[01:28:03] <darkcode>	people who want pages that auto revert themselves next instead of using bots
[01:28:06] <MrZ-man>	I tried lots of things
[01:28:09] <Splarka>	and yet, blocked sysops can unblock themselves...
[01:28:15] <darkcode>	err will want
[01:28:22] <Skizzerz>	darkcode: they already want that :)
[01:28:25] <Splarka>	darkcode: flagged_revs
[01:28:26] <MrZ-man>	even specifically assigning protect rights only to bureacrats 
[01:28:39] <Splarka>	coming soon to a wikimedia near you
[01:28:49] <Simetrical>	Well, protection levels are semi-hardcoded to sysop/bot/*.
[01:28:51] <Skizzerz>	Splarka: that's to prevent a rogue sysop from blocking every other sysop to seize control of a wiki
[01:28:52] *Splarka 	glares at AaronSchulz to get cracking
[01:29:03] <Simetrical>	Not in theory, but in practice, we don't bother thinking about other levels half the time.
[01:30:13] <MrZ-man>	there's probably a reason that $wgRestrictionTypes says "You probably shouldn't change this" in DefaultSettings ...
[01:30:47] *Skizzerz 	was thinking of making a patch that prevented them from protecting higher than they are, but it'd not only get lost in the next upgrade, but it might block viewing the protection levels as well
[01:30:48] *amidaniel 	wonders why we even have that as a global rather than a constant or class member
[01:31:17] <Simetrical>	amidaniel, there's some support for other restriction types.
[01:31:21] <GhostlyDeath>	Has anyone ever installed MediaWiki on a sourceforge account before?
[01:31:23] <Simetrical>	Just people are lazy, so it's not complete support.
[01:31:28] *Splarka 	wonders why more projects don't have autoconfirmed require a minimum edit count
[01:31:30] <amidaniel>	Ah, okay :)
[01:31:36] <Simetrical>	GhostlyDeath, I haven't, at least.
[01:31:56] <MrZ-man>	Splarka: I believe it was suggested on en.wiki, but it got shot down
[01:32:01] <darkcode>	flagged revisions keeps a static version of a page in which another version has to be explicitly asked for to override it, from what I understand.  reverting would be like "after [ ] minutes/hours/days/weeks/months/years/etc revert to revision [ ]"
[01:32:06] <Splarka>	"omg no consensus"
[01:32:37] *MrZ-man 	files a bug report, waits for ArbCom sanction
[01:32:39] <Splarka>	dark: I mean, a self reverting page feature would be superceeded by flagged revs
[01:33:21] <Splarka>	which I think is a good idea for main namespaces on major projects, especially those prominent in the media like en.wp
[01:33:21] <Skizzerz>	self-reverting = bad
[01:33:39] <Splarka>	anyone can get the latest version, but the default action=view would be the latest 'good' version
[01:33:50] <amidaniel>	darkcode: Huh? Not a feature of flaggedrevs I'm aware of
[01:34:34] <Splarka>	contrary to things like flagged forums, that require a sysop to approve all new posts, this would be flagging in the wiki style, open ^_^
[01:34:41] <darkcode>	Splarka I'm thinking of uses for bots right now like a Sandbox that is cleared one a day for instance
[01:34:58] <Splarka>	och, seems clunky for a big project
[01:35:02] <Splarka>	unless it was just for sandboxen
[01:35:14] <MrZ-man>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed_Proposal
[01:35:18] <Splarka>	in which case it is already done some places
[01:35:59] <Skizzerz>	Splarka: are there enough sysops on en.wp to keep every good revision flagged? :)
[01:36:19] <Splarka>	skiz: the rights are separate from sysop 'editor' and 'reviewer'
[01:36:46] <MrZ-man>	oh, don't get en.wiki on flagged revisions...
[01:36:49] <Skizzerz>	yeah, but I'm assuming they aren't going to just make anyone able to do it, only trusted people
[01:36:55] <Splarka>	I'm sure there'll be votes for for sysop-assignable groups for one or both, followed by bugzilla, consensus fights, and arbcoms
[01:36:58] <MrZ-man>	s/enwiki/enwiki started
[01:37:18] <MrZ-man>	Splarka: sounds about right
[01:37:33] <Splarka>	as I understand it, 'editor's would have all edits flagged automatically, and all 'reviewers' would be able to flag as good, or something
[01:38:06] <Skizzerz>	autoconfirmed = reviewer, rollback&sysop = editor?
[01:38:07] <MrZ-man>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flagged_revisions/Sighted_versions
[01:38:22] <Splarka>	I'd say, making a group 'editor' with both would be good enough for a project, and make it sysop assignable
[01:38:30] <Splarka>	but of course, some will argue
[01:38:40] <MrZ-man>	IIRC, reviewer > editor
[01:38:52] <Splarka>	right, a reviewer can review other people's
[01:38:59] <Splarka>	they aren't really comparable
[01:39:03] <Splarka>	apples and oranges
[01:39:39] <Splarka>	wouldn't be hard to allow reviewers to selectively enable/disable the 'editor' right to themselves, with a recent userrights patch allowing a separate 'self' group
[01:39:40] <darkcode>	seems like reviewer==new page patroller
[01:40:02] <Splarka>	anyway, this could all change a dozen times over before Aaron gets it ready ^_^
[01:40:22] <MrZ-man>	reviewer can mark pages as high quality, editor can mark as stable/non-crap
[01:40:27] <Splarka>	he'd made a MakeReviewer/Editor extension, and now that's been deprecated by userrights refactoring
[01:41:30] <darkcode>	since new page patrolling is a lot like reviewing a page
[01:41:53] <amidaniel>	Splarka: Did he finally remove all of that?
[01:41:56] <Splarka>	patrolling might be a thing of the past
[01:42:14] <Splarka>	amid: I don't think any have been removed, because the UR UI is so, hmm, what did brion say.. "ugly"
[01:42:32] <amidaniel>	Ugg ... 
[01:42:36] <Splarka>	I think UR should be a series of tubes
[01:42:39] <Splarka>	er, checkboxes
[01:42:50] *amidaniel 	tried to remove Aaron's makereviewer jazz and replace it with userrights 6 months ago
[01:43:06] <amidaniel>	Ooh, I like the tubes idea :)
[01:43:15] <Splarka>	a checkbox list of all assignable groups (not emailconfirmed/autoconfirmed/user, but all the rest)
[01:43:15] <Splarka>	checked="checked" for those that are assigned
[01:43:15] <Splarka>	disabled="disabled" for those you can't change
[01:43:34] <Splarka>	simple!
[01:43:52] <Splarka>	and maybe a warning
[01:44:06] <Splarka>	"Warning, you cannot undo this" if you can add but not remove, or remove but not add
[01:44:08] <darkcode>	how about a select menu that allows multiple selection?
[01:44:19] <Splarka>	...great idea....
[01:44:24] <amidaniel>	Wow, was I dead on or what? Click for information from Amazon, right-click for menu.
[01:44:27] <amidaniel>	Woops
[01:44:34] <amidaniel>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=23832
[01:44:42] <amidaniel>	6 months, 1 week ago :)
[01:44:55] <Splarka>	nice
[01:45:11] <Splarka>	but a bit premature
[01:45:19] <amidaniel>	Meh, it was working fine then
[01:45:20] <Splarka>	but then again, so was whoever enabled it on wikimedia
[01:45:36] <amidaniel>	At least for FlaggedRevs' purposes, it worked fine
[01:45:51] <amidaniel>	Splarka: Were there further problems with userrights after it was enabled on enwiki?
[01:45:59] *Splarka 	again lords over the fact that he WP:BEANSed the bug that would have allowed anyone with the least bit of access to UserRights to hack the form allowing them to make themselves founder/steward/checkuser
[01:46:10] <amidaniel>	O.O
[01:46:13] <Splarka>	yes, the one I just said, although only bureaucrats had accesson all projects
[01:46:17] <Splarka>	except test.wp
[01:46:18] *amidaniel 	stabs Splarka 
[01:46:21] <Splarka>	ow!
[01:46:27] <amidaniel>	How could there not be a check in there? OMG
[01:46:32] <Splarka>	there was
[01:46:36] <Splarka>	but only in form generation, not on submission
[01:46:37] <Splarka>	hehe
[01:46:39] *amidaniel 	stabs Simetrical because that was all his doing
[01:47:00] <Splarka>	so you could hack the form to add <option value="steward">steward</option> and set yourself
[01:47:13] <Splarka>	was no prob when only the highest level of user had access to userrights
[01:47:23] <Splarka>	I blamed werdna, he blamed rotem
[01:47:40] <Splarka>	in fact
[01:47:51] <Splarka>	some test wikis on the internets still have this vulnerability
[01:47:57] <MrZ-man>	02:24, 28 December 2007 Splarka (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Brion from (none) to steward ‎ (this better not work)
[01:48:01] <amidaniel>	Did anyone .. uhh ... make use of the bug before it was fixed?
[01:48:10] <Simetrical>	amidaniel, hey, I didn't do all of it!  Werdna did some too.
[01:48:11] <amidaniel>	on enwiki, that is
[01:48:11] <Splarka>	just me, that I know of, on wikimedia and wikia
[01:48:20] <MrZ-man>	02:29, 28 December 2007 Splarka (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Splarka from editor, reviewer, sysop to editor, reviewer, sysop, bot, bureaucrat, checkuser, steward, povwatch, boardvote, import, developer, oversight ‎ (testing bug scope)
[01:48:22] <Splarka>	and coupled with the bug before it: where *everyone* had access to UserRights, even IP addresses
[01:48:24] <amidaniel>	Simetrical: I choose to blame you.
[01:48:30] *Simetrical 	goes to look whose fault it was
[01:48:30] <Splarka>	some wikis out there might be very vulnerable
[01:48:44] <amidaniel>	Simetrical: Oh, don't you come to me with your empirical, concrete evidence.
[01:48:45] <Simetrical>	If they're running trunk.
[01:48:47] <Splarka>	running certain revisions of Userrights (wikimedia never did)
[01:48:47] <amidaniel>	We know it was all you.
[01:48:52] <Simetrical>	In which case they deserve whatever they get.
[01:49:16] <Splarka>	MrZ-man: brion set me bureaucrat, but really, any 'user' could have done that on test.wp
[01:49:22] *Splarka 	also used the bug to unset himself bureaucrat, heh
[01:50:42] <Simetrical>	Splarka, what commit fixed the bug you reported?
[01:51:10] <Splarka>	um
[01:51:13] *Splarka 	looks
[01:51:18] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=29276&r2=29323
[01:51:29] <Splarka>	and http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=29323&r2=29526
[01:51:52] <Splarka>	er, no...
[01:51:55] <Splarka>	hmm
[01:52:05] <MrZ-man>	hmm, my rights log on test.wp seems to be borked - http://test.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=Mr.Z-man&page=
[01:52:24] <Splarka>	Simetrical:  http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=28897&r2=28915
[01:52:30] <Splarka>	and then: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=28915&r2=28916
[01:53:04] <Splarka>	the second one was because: you could still create a log entry that appeared to change it, but it didn't
[01:53:18] *Simetrical 	has the gloomy feeling that may have been his fault
[01:53:20] *Simetrical 	looks
[01:54:20] <Splarka>	well, the bug existed as far back as 1.5 that I know of
[01:54:31] <Splarka>	you could user UserRights to set nonexistant groups
[01:54:40] <Simetrical>	The second bug isn't such a big deal.
[01:54:41] <Splarka>	or, more usefully, remove deprecated groups 
[01:54:42] <Simetrical>	It's just kind of weird.
[01:55:14] <Splarka>	like for example, if a 'boardvote' group was removed from LocalSettings, and people had it, you could hack in <option value='boardvote'> and remove them from it
[01:55:44] <Splarka>	we used it at Wikia all the time, but I guess no one noticed when opening access to UserRights
[01:55:53] <Splarka>	all very amusing
[01:56:04] <Simetrical>	Looks like it was Werdna's fault.
[01:56:56] <Simetrical>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=28650&r2=28649&pathrev=28650
[01:57:14] <Simetrical>	Look at line 107.
[01:57:18] <Simetrical>	And 113.
[01:57:29] <Simetrical>	Then look at the definition of the new functions removeUserGroup() and addUserGroup().
[01:57:44] <darkcode>	its god fault for creating the human group
[01:58:44] <Splarka>	MrZ-man: I asked AaronSchulz about that, he said it was an old version of the extension
[01:59:07] <MrZ-man>	ah
[02:01:10] <Simetrical>	See, look!  I did it securely!  http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialUserrights.php?r1=23410&r2=23409&pathrev=23410
[02:01:32] <Simetrical>	Also, I forgot to escape the $ signs in bash when writing my commit message, so the variable names were eaten.  Hurrah for command lines.
[02:37:27] <AphelionZ>	I'm beginning to write some code using the API. What files do I have to include in order to instantiate the ApiMain class without any errors?
[02:46:32] <amidaniel|away>	AphelionZ: WebStart.php should handle just about everything
[02:48:02] <AphelionZ>	thanks, I'm getting this error here: require_once(./StartProfiler.php)
[02:48:13] <AphelionZ>	No such file or directory
[02:48:30] <amidaniel|away>	What directory is your file in?
[02:48:52] <AphelionZ>	 /vault/includes/WebStart.php
[02:49:14] <amidaniel|away>	No, the file that your code is sitting in
[02:49:58] <AphelionZ>	oh
[02:50:36] <amidaniel|away>	Oh, and actually if you're just trying to instatiate ApiMain, all you should need to require (not include) is ApiMain.php
[02:50:43] <AphelionZ>	 /system/application/models/
[02:51:20] <amidaniel|away>	Okay, and from there you're doing a require_once('/vault/includes/api/ApiMain.php'); ?
[02:55:11] <AphelionZ>	include($_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT'].'/vault/includes/api/ApiMain.php'); actually
[02:55:31] <AphelionZ>	and now im getting Class 'FauxRequest' not found
[02:55:50] *amidaniel|away 	quivers
[02:56:13] <amidaniel|away>	No, you should refer to the path by the path on the FILESYSTEM not the web root
[02:56:23] <amidaniel|away>	And use require_once, not include
[02:58:15] <AphelionZ>	require_once('/vault/includes/api/ApiMain.php'); doesnt work for me, i had to include the root
[02:58:24] <AphelionZ>	i even tried chdir
[02:59:33] <amidaniel|away>	Is the actual path on the webserver /vault/includes/api ... that is you do "cd /vault/includes/api" and wind up there?
[02:59:45] <amidaniel|away>	As /vault is not a common directory to have in the fs root ...
[03:00:13] <AphelionZ>	ah hang on
[03:01:13] <AphelionZ>	require_once('/home/wikibond/public_html/vault/includes/api/ApiMain.php'); still is asking for FauxRequest
[03:02:34] <amidaniel|away>	Define "asking for"
[03:03:39] <AphelionZ>	Fatal error: Class 'FauxRequest' not found in /home/wikibond/public_html/system/application/models/wiki_api.php on line 14
[03:04:25] <AphelionZ>	http://rafb.net/p/1lt7hi29.html there's my function
[03:08:32] <AphelionZ>	crap i gotta go, thanks amidaniel.. i'm sure i'll be back
[03:43:16] <nikiwaibel>	is it possible to include the content of external websites into mediawiki sites, maybe without extensions?
[03:44:42] <Splarka>	you could use a javascript-created iframe, but that'd be pretty flakey
[03:45:07] <Pathoschild>	AJAX does it nicely.
[03:45:25] <Splarka>	...except for the pesky cross-domain restrictions
[03:45:47] <Splarka>	and trying to sign site-wide editable javascripts would be kinda silly, heh
[03:46:41] <Splarka>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Alxndr/RSS  sort of a useable extension
[03:46:59] <Splarka>	used on Wikiia
[03:49:47] <nikiwaibel>	hmm -- nothing like {{http://niceserver.com/web-include/testsite.tmpl}}?
[03:50:46] <Splarka>	although, if the external content is an image or something else embeddable, that can be done usually easily
[03:50:47] <nikiwaibel>	i think in plain php you can do sthg like that ...
[03:54:13] <nikiwaibel>	(http://at2.php.net/manual/en/function.virtual.php, ... i think that was the function --> tells the http server to grab it)
[03:55:32] <nikiwaibel>	external content would be parts of a website -- let's say -- some <div>'s
[03:57:32] <nikiwaibel>	it seems that the include() and require() php functions can grab a website as well.
[03:58:12] <amidaniel>	Sure they can
[04:00:04] <Splarka>	nikiwaibel: if you have access to hacking the php, why not just use an extension? heh
[04:02:32] <nikiwaibel>	just wondered if it is there in the core functionality. i guess asking you on this channel is the best source of information :-)
[04:03:26] <Splarka>	scary transclusions?
[04:03:55] *amidaniel 	shivers
[04:04:01] <amidaniel>	They're called "scary" for a reason :)
[04:04:08] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableScaryTranscluding
[04:07:10] <nikiwaibel>	in fact i am not including from a wiki site.
[04:09:23] <nikiwaibel>	anyway -- thank you for your help -- i've to get some sleep. now (509).
[04:09:46] <Splarka>	well, see fetchScaryTemplateMaybeFromCache() in the parser
[04:09:51] <Splarka>	maybe you can hack that up a bit
[04:33:28] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Allow wiki markup in forms - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10933  +comment (10yaron57)
[04:35:34] <amidaniel>	So why is ApiChangeRights disabled? That buggy?
[04:43:00] <VasilievVV>	amidaniel: that doesn't use current architecture
[05:12:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Multilingual server error message specifies inadequate fonts - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12673 normal; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (mxn)
[05:49:36] <AphelionZ>	hey amidaniel
[05:49:38] <AphelionZ>	sorry i had to run off
[05:50:58] <AphelionZ>	http://rafb.net/p/1lt7hi29.html - this function is returning the error Fatal error: Class 'FauxRequest' not found in /home/wikibond/public_html/system/application/models/wiki_api.php on line 14. What other files should I include?
[07:14:11] <appelza>	SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE
[07:19:59] <_wooz>	lo
[07:48:50] <AphelionZ>	heh
[07:48:53] <AphelionZ>	late night #mediawiki
[08:29:41] <GhostlyDeath>	How do I make my Wiki Case insensitive?
[08:31:57] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgCapitalLinks
[08:35:16] <MZMcBride>	!wg CapitalLinks
[08:35:16] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgCapitalLinks
[08:35:22] <MZMcBride>	poor bot
[08:35:40] <Splarka>	that was pointful-less
[08:35:51] <MZMcBride>	heh.
[08:35:58] <MZMcBride>	you're so mean to mwbot
[08:36:21] *Splarka 	slaps mwbot
[08:36:33] *MZMcBride 	pets mwbot
[08:36:44] <Splarka>	darn, ami needs more action macs
[08:36:47] *MZMcBride 	thinks there should be more sendActions
[08:41:55] <GhostlyDeath>	for {||}, how do I go to the next row?
[08:44:54] <Sk1mble>	|-
[08:45:15] <Sk1mble>	The syntax is {|table formatting options here
[08:45:23] <Sk1mble>	|- start new row
[08:45:34] <Sk1mble>	!Heading1!!Heading2!!...
[08:45:34] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "heading1!!heading2!!...".
[08:45:42] <Sk1mble>	|- Next row
[08:45:50] <Sk1mble>	|Cell 1||Cell2||Cell3
[08:45:59] <Sk1mble>	|} End table.
[08:46:15] <GhostlyDeath>	thanks
[08:46:17] <Splarka>	Sk1mble: for the sake of mwbot, when using wikitable examples use a space ^_^
[08:46:20] <Splarka>	! header
[08:46:32] <Sk1mble>	Sorry. +)
[08:46:49] *Splarka 	slaps mwbot
[08:58:30] <CIA-41>	03siebrand * r29911 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (8 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-01-18 9:45 CET)
[09:00:33] <CIA-41>	03siebrand * r29912 10/trunk/extensions/ (31 files in 29 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from Betawiki (2008-01-18 9:45 CET)
[09:39:24] <CIA-41>	03dale * r29913 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (12 files in 6 dirs): 
[09:39:24] <CIA-41>	* improved "open" collaborative video editor ;)
[09:39:24] <CIA-41>	** sequences now pull metadata from wiki
[09:39:24] <CIA-41>	* other minor fixes
[09:48:35] <GhostlyDeath>	There anyway to implant RSS feeds into a MediaWiki?
[09:49:08] <Splarka>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Alxndr/RSS  ?
[09:49:40] <GhostlyDeath>	nice
[09:56:47] <GhostlyDeath>	Can I do external images?
[09:57:18] <ThomasV>	not easily..
[09:57:30] <Splarka>	depends
[09:57:43] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowExternalImages
[09:57:59] <Splarka>	if you want anyone to be able to, but if you just want to do a few, consider CSS
[09:58:53] <GhostlyDeath>	I just want a single image
[09:59:03] <GhostlyDeath>	maybe <image src=""> ?
[09:59:34] <GhostlyDeath>	nope
[10:01:58] <Splarka>	what size is the image?
[10:04:15] <GhostlyDeath>	it's a PHP file
[10:04:49] <Splarka>	does it return an image of dynamic size?
[10:04:51] <GhostlyDeath>	well PHP loads the image
[10:04:54] <Splarka>	well, let me give you an example then
[10:04:57] <GhostlyDeath>	650x350
[10:05:09] <Splarka>	an external image: http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/images/logo.gif
[10:05:20] <Splarka>	size 276x110
[10:05:34] <Splarka>	lets say you want that in a wikipage, you can do it with site-wide css pretty easily
[10:05:46] <Splarka>	in wikicode: <div id="googleLogo"></div>
[10:05:54] <Splarka>	in MediaWiki:Common.css
[10:05:58] <Splarka>	#googleLogo {
[10:06:12] <Splarka>	 width:276px; height:110px;
[10:06:23] <Splarka>	  margin:auto;
[10:06:39] <Splarka>	background-image: url("http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/images/logo.gif");
[10:06:40] <Splarka>	}
[10:07:03] <Splarka>	sneeky eh
[10:07:29] <Splarka>	you can restrict it to one page too, in newer versions of mediawiki (1.7+ I think?)
[10:07:38] <Splarka>	.page-Main_Page #googleLogo {}
[10:07:47] <GhostlyDeath>	but if I want it in one page, what would it be?
[10:07:58] <Splarka>	what is the page name? can you link to it?
[10:08:11] <GhostlyDeath>	cant be edited though
[10:08:43] <GhostlyDeath>	Splarka: URL to the page I want it to be on?
[10:08:45] <GhostlyDeath>	right?
[10:08:46] <Splarka>	yes
[10:08:52] <GhostlyDeath>	http://remood.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[10:09:11] <penguin>	hii can any one help me with this mediawiki integration with drupal
[10:09:17] <penguin>	k
[10:09:24] <GhostlyDeath>	I want http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/graph/detail-graph.php?group_id=184616&ugn=remood&type=svn&mode=&graph=2 to appear as an image where the link is
[10:09:27] <Zach>	would it be unwise of me to write an extension which modifies the categorylinks table directly, without modifying any page text?
[10:09:39] <Splarka>	<body                 class="ns-0">
[10:10:00] <Splarka>	your version of mediawiki isn't new enough to restrict it to one page
[10:10:24] <Splarka>	(well, with javascript, but that wouldn't be as clean as via CSS)
[10:10:43] <Splarka>	can *you* edit that page, GhostlyDeath?
[10:10:45] <GhostlyDeath>	and $wgAllowExternalImages would need to be true in LocalSettings.php right?
[10:10:48] <GhostlyDeath>	Splarka: yes I can
[10:11:20] <GhostlyDeath>	gonna figure out how to get RSS in there for the SVN updates
[10:11:25] <Splarka>	it would, and anyone could use any external images, so that'd be less secure
[10:11:35] <Splarka>	well, try this and see if you like it
[10:12:07] <Splarka>	add to that page <div id="reMooD_activity"></div> somewhere
[10:12:27] <Splarka>	and then in [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]] add:
[10:12:57] <CIA-41>	03grondin * r29914 10/trunk/extensions/SignDocument/SpecialCreateSignDocument.i18n.php: Fixed one message forgotten
[10:13:08] *Splarka 	types it up
[10:13:45] <Splarka>	#reMooD_activity {
[10:13:46] <Splarka>	  width:650px;
[10:13:46] <Splarka>	  height:350px;
[10:13:46] <Splarka>	  background-image: url("http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/graph/detail-graph.php?group_id=184616&ugn=remood&type=svn&mode=&graph=2");
[10:13:46] <Splarka>	  clear:both;
[10:13:47] <Splarka>	  margin:auto;
[10:13:49] <Splarka>	}
[10:14:03] <Splarka>	(and then save and purge your browser cache)
[10:14:42] <GhostlyDeath>	o_O anyone can edit the CSS?
[10:14:48] <GhostlyDeath>	oh it's protected
[10:15:16] <Zach>	no, its JS that anyone can edit ;) :P
[10:15:29] <GhostlyDeath>	there we go
[10:15:34] <GhostlyDeath>	thanks a bunch Splarka
[10:15:57] <Splarka>	np
[10:16:08] *Splarka 	tsks at Zach
[10:16:11] <GhostlyDeath>	now for RSS!
[10:16:20] <Splarka>	GhostlyDeath: the MediaWiki: namespace is protected magically
[10:19:38] <GhostlyDeath>	Splarka: using that method can $wgAllowExternalImages be off?
[10:22:27] <Splarka>	yes
[10:22:43] <Splarka>	that method bypasses any need for those type of external images
[10:23:02] <Splarka>	inline CSS cannot define a background-image, but site-wide CSS cann
[10:23:17] <Splarka>	there are security reasons for it, and attribution reasons
[10:23:28] <GhostlyDeath>	Splarka: You think Alxndr/RSS will work on my WikiMedia Version (stuck because SF uses outdated version)?
[10:23:47] <Splarka>	maybe not, that looks quite old :/
[10:24:03] <GhostlyDeath>	1.5.8 lol
[10:36:57] <GhostlyDeath>	=/ "return «<div>Failed to load RSS feed from $url: ».$rss->ERROR."</div>"; #localize…" is a parse error
[10:37:05] <GhostlyDeath>	"Parse error: parse error, unexpected '>' in /home/groups/r/re/remood/htdocs/wiki/extensions/rss.php on line 130"
[10:42:04] *Sasa^Stefanovic 	00is Away, Reason: 14( 07cim 14) 14|00 Since: 14( 07Friday00, 07January 1800, 07200800.07 0700:071700:0742 14)07 Xlack 00v072.1
[10:43:04] <GhostlyDeath>	woo I got it after comment out 10 lines
[10:43:34] <Splarka>	Sasa: public aways make baby jimbo cry
[10:43:50] <Splarka>	bah
[10:45:19] <GhostlyDeath>	now to use it..
[10:54:47] <Splarka>	Sasa: public aways make baby jimbo cry
[10:55:10] <Sasa^Stefanovic>	Splarka, i know, i hate it too
[10:55:13] <Dashiva>	What about grown-up jimbo?
[10:55:14] <Splarka>	especially in unreadable colors X_X
[10:55:26] <Sasa^Stefanovic>	wait to find out where to remove that from this script
[11:43:14] <GrandiJoos>	Hi
[11:44:15] <GrandiJoos>	I have a question: I would like to add stat counter code to my site, this should be included in each page, the code has no output (no counter etc.) and I would like to enable it for ALL skins, any ideas?
[11:52:58] <Draicone>	How do I flush the cache for a CSS file in the MediaWiki namespace?
[11:53:47] <Splarka>	if it is on wikimedia, the error is known
[11:54:37] <Draicone>	It's on en wikiversity, wikimedia server, yes. On the bottom tabs we've got a .pBody box with a visual bug, I tried to fix it up but the CSS won't refresh
[11:54:46] <Splarka>	there is a teeny tiny cache configuration problem at the moment, making user/site js/css cache to the bitter end of eternity
[11:54:59] <Splarka>	^making *some* 
[11:55:48] <Draicone>	Hmm
[11:55:56] <Draicone>	Can I create a new stylesheet and @import it?
[11:55:57] <Splarka>	you can try going to your preferences/Misc
[11:56:11] <Draicone>	Oh, I'm trying to do it site-wide
[11:56:17] <Draicone>	It's a known problem
[11:56:18] <Splarka>	and [x] disable page caching and go to the URL directly (in firefox) and hit *reload*
[11:56:25] <Splarka>	it is a known problem
[11:56:36] <Splarka>	but fixing it for yourself is the first step to recovery
[11:56:44] <Splarka>	this is a server side cache problem, not just client side
[11:57:22] <Splarka>	the client side caching of sitewide CSS is another issue, heh
[11:57:25] <Splarka>	/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&usemsgcache=yes&action=raw&ctype=text/css&smaxage=2678400
[11:58:02] <Splarka>	that allows it 31 days of client side cache
[11:59:22] <Splarka>	so, Draicone, even if you *can* purge the server cache for yourself, it is still browser-cached for thousands (?) of users for up to a month, probably
[12:00:05] <Draicone>	...wtf?
[12:00:25] <Draicone>	Fantastic.
[12:00:46] <Splarka>	you want to subject the servers to every page load request rerequesting all css/js files anew?
[12:00:48] <Splarka>	meanie
[12:01:15] *Splarka 	patpats the poor servers
[12:01:44] <Draicone>	Well, no, but a 60 minute cache, maybe?
[12:01:49] <Draicone>	Or at least a way to flush the cache?
[12:01:52] <Splarka>	anyway, that is a "feature", what you have is a known bug (as you're being informed about in -tech I see, heh)
[12:01:56] <Splarka>	well
[12:02:15] <Splarka>	flushing the cache would require invalidating the cache of every page on the wiki
[12:02:29] <Splarka>	to update the URL fragment, as is done for software css/js, like wikibits.js
[12:02:33] <Draicone>	Is that a problem?
[12:02:37] <Splarka>	well, yah
[12:02:43] <Draicone>	It's a small wiki, maybe 20,000 pages at the most
[12:03:22] <Splarka>	fyi: you can @import as long as all @imports are above any other wikicode in the page
[12:03:28] <Splarka>	and you could even probably set a lower maxage
[12:03:39] <Splarka>	but you'd still have to wait 31 days for the cache to expire the first time
[12:03:55] <Splarka>	er, subst/wikicode/css
[12:04:11] <Dashiva>	I think this was biting me on fr.wikibooks
[12:04:19] <Splarka>	hmm, but anyway, Connel was having this same prob on en.wiktionary a few days ago
[12:04:26] <Splarka>	as were several others with user css/js
[12:04:28] <Dashiva>	I'd force refresh of a css file, but when I reloaded the page using it, it would revert to the outdated cached one
[12:04:45] <Splarka>	the cure for wikt for myself, was for me to log in and disable caching, and then shift-ctrl-reload a page
[12:05:17] <Splarka>	wikimedia should probably go to a 1 day s-maxage and max-age
[12:05:57] <GrandiJoos>	I have a question: I would like to add stat counter code to my site, this should be included in each page, the code has no output (no counter etc.) and I would like to enable it for ALL skins, any ideas?
[12:06:09] <Draicone>	Splarka: How do you disable caching?
[12:06:15] <Draicone>	Splarka: Oh, wait, is that per-user?
[12:06:16] <Splarka>	Draicone: Preferences/Misc
[12:06:18] <Splarka>	yes
[12:06:23] <Draicone>	Ah, not much use then
[12:06:24] <Splarka>	GrandiJoos: you have access to the php?
[12:06:28] <Draicone>	I visit the wiki, oh, once every three months
[12:06:31] <Splarka>	Draicone: not necessarily
[12:06:32] <GrandiJoos>	yes, its a private wiki
[12:06:45] <Splarka>	purge for one sometimes can purge for all
[12:06:56] <Splarka>	the problem with action=raw is you can't action=purge
[12:07:13] <Splarka>	but if you disable caching and force the browser to re-request, then it is sort of like an action=purge, in theory
[12:07:24] <Splarka>	it can't hurt anyways, unless you're afraid... heh heh
[12:07:42] <Splarka>	GrandiJoos: you could insert a web bug (1x1 pixel image)
[12:08:55] <GrandiJoos>	@Splarka: I have the code (legal without image), I just want to know where to add the code
[12:09:03] <Splarka>	http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Splarka/tricks#Poor-man.27s_hit_counter
[12:09:07] <Splarka>	oh
[12:09:30] <Splarka>	for all skins? it would probably be somewhere in SkinTemplate.php or Skin.php
[12:09:37] <CIA-41>	03huji * r29915 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesFa.php: Added Persian translations
[12:09:44] <Draicone>	Splarka: If I had SSH, would it be possible?
[12:09:51] <Draicone>	Like, if I could modify the MW code on the server
[12:09:59] <Draicone>	Is the cache specified in the GET data?
[12:10:09] <Draicone>	I could change it to 3600 or something
[12:10:19] <Splarka>	Drai: which wiki is this for?
[12:10:24] <Dashiva>	If you absolutely need all skins, it'd have to be in the article. Otherwise some skin might leave a field out.
[12:10:26] <Draicone>	Splarka: en.wikiversity
[12:10:47] <Splarka>	and what css file? common?
[12:10:55] <Draicone>	I dunno actually
[12:11:04] <Draicone>	I thought it was Monobook but now I think it's Common
[12:11:16] <Draicone>	I've been editing monobook which loads after common and should in theory override
[12:12:41] <Splarka>	GrandiJoos: in /includes/skin.php it looks like you can insert html in the function outputPage()
[12:12:49] <Splarka>	probably just above $out->out( "\n</body></html>" );
[12:13:12] <Draicone>	I figured if we could just edit whatever file in MW it is that sets that cache time via get we could fix the problem
[12:13:13] <GrandiJoos>	splarka: thnx! will have a look and test it, I will let you know if it worked in a few min.
[12:13:26] <Splarka>	k
[12:13:32] <Splarka>	Drai: lemme test something
[12:13:38] <Draicone>	Okay, sure
[12:14:50] <Splarka>	can you add something to Monobook.css like a comment?
[12:14:55] <Draicone>	Yes
[12:14:59] <Splarka>	/* Cache test */ to the bottom?
[12:15:22] <Draicone>	Within the CSS area and with a space at the beginning of the line, or right at the bottom?
[12:15:33] <Splarka>	anywhere
[12:15:49] <Splarka>	just so the page isn't the same as it was on December 29th
[12:15:58] <Splarka>	since you reverted
[12:18:31] <Splarka>	any day now ^_^
[12:19:25] <Draicone>	Sorry, IE crashed
[12:19:36] <Splarka>	IE IE oh:/
[12:19:40] <Draicone>	Okay, changed
[12:19:45] <Draicone>	Hey, IE7 is actually pretty good
[12:19:56] <Draicone>	And the IE developer toolbar rivals the power of Firebug
[12:20:44] <Splarka>	hmm
[12:20:45] <Splarka>	http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Monobook.css&usemsgcache=yes&action=raw&ctype=text/css&smaxage=2678400
[12:20:51] <Splarka>	when you go to that URL, does it ask you to download a file?
[12:21:01] <Draicone>	No, it serves as text/css
[12:21:10] <Draicone>	Gets printed as if the whole thing is in <pre>
[12:21:23] <Draicone>	Probably is in <pre> given IE's dodgy way of display different file types
[12:21:23] <Splarka>	okay, and you see the cached version?
[12:21:27] <Draicone>	Yes
[12:21:38] <Splarka>	hit shift-F5
[12:23:00] <Splarka>	is it still cached?
[12:26:42] <Draicone>	Yep, still cached
[12:26:49] <Draicone>	Sorry, running around a little here
[12:26:51] <Draicone>	Br
[12:26:52] <Draicone>	Brb
[12:30:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Multilingual server error message specifies inadequate fonts - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12673  +comment (10jeluf)
[12:32:26] <GrandiJoos>	@Splarka: adding it to skin.php did not work
[12:33:02] <Splarka>	did anything in the page source change?
[12:34:53] <GrandiJoos>	splarka: no, nothing
[12:34:54] <Draicone>	Nope
[12:35:00] <Draicone>	Oh, sorry :P
[12:35:09] <Draicone>	(oh, and i'm back... temporarily)
[12:35:35] <Splarka>	Draicone: well, the en.wt fix didn't work this time. evil
[12:35:44] <Splarka>	hopefully they'll fix this bug soon ^_^
[12:35:55] <Draicone>	Very evil
[12:36:00] <Draicone>	But what about if we could modify the MW source?
[12:36:03] <Draicone>	(via ssh)
[12:36:05] <Splarka>	can you?
[12:36:14] <Draicone>	It could be possible
[12:36:18] <Draicone>	Is there a way?
[12:36:21] <Splarka>	I mean, you personally? ^_^
[12:36:22] <Draicone>	(I'm not too familiar with MW)
[12:36:30] <Draicone>	Give me three days ;)
[12:36:37] <Splarka>	it'd be easy, if you could change the stubborn URL calling the css files
[12:36:40] <Draicone>	+ Brion on holiday
[12:36:50] <Splarka>	but you'd have to do that each time you edited the css
[12:36:51] <Draicone>	And a free trip to Hawaii for Tim
[12:37:00] <Splarka>	http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Monobook.css&usemsgcache=yes&action=raw&ctype=text/css&smaxage=2678400
[12:37:00] <Draicone>	Or we could just host the CSS off-site
[12:37:02] <Splarka>	compare to
[12:37:07] <Splarka>	http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Monobook.css&usemsgcache=yes&action=raw&ctype=text/css&smaxage=2678400&foobar
[12:37:09] <Draicone>	I'm already running a server for wikiversity
[12:37:12] <Draicone>	ooh, &foobar@
[12:37:15] <Draicone>	!*
[12:37:15] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "*". You might try: !config 
[12:37:20] <Draicone>	Sorry
[12:37:25] *Draicone 	hugs mwbot
[12:37:29] <Splarka>	!shuttingupbecauseIamspammy
[12:37:29] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "shuttingupbecauseiamspammy".
[12:37:41] <Splarka>	anyway
[12:37:54] <Splarka>			<style type="text/css" media="screen, projection">/*<![CDATA[*/
[12:37:54] <Splarka>				@import "/skins-1.5/common/shared.css?104
[12:38:16] <Splarka>	whenever they update the software css or js that number there "?104" is updated, that is the fragment that invalidates server and client caches
[12:38:27] <Splarka>	but it wouldn't scale well to site-editable
[12:38:47] <Splarka>	with site editable cache, you're fighting client cache and server cache
[12:38:59] <Draicone>	We can deal with server cache
[12:39:04] <Splarka>	client cache usually just requires an F5 or [reload] in most browsers, server side with bugs can be impossible
[12:39:08] <Draicone>	What if we change all the URLs?
[12:39:14] <Draicone>	Would the client cache reload then?
[12:39:22] <Draicone>	Well, cache the new URLs (for a shorter priod)?
[12:39:24] <Draicone>	period*
[12:39:49] <Splarka>	yes, but if you want to do that just to have your  .pBody take effect, I think brion might stab
[12:39:58] <Splarka>	and if the cache bug isn't fixed first, it'd be silly
[12:40:14] <Splarka>	and also, those URLs are static, they'd have to be changed back, or there'd have to be a url schema change to justify it
[12:40:47] <Splarka>	and, the new version would just be as stubbornly cached until the url was changed again, or the bug was fixed
[12:40:52] <Draicone>	... I think I'll go with the take-over-enwv-and-move-it-to-a-real-server-where-we-can-actually-maintain-it approach.
[12:40:54] <Splarka>	so, fix the bug first
[12:41:04] <Draicone>	And how do we fix the bug?
[12:41:06] <Draicone>	Patch MW?
[12:41:06] <Splarka>	then @import on the first line of your css
[12:41:17] <Splarka>	no, it is a server problem, domas is probbaly to blame
[12:41:22] <Draicone>	Hmm...
[12:41:29] <Draicone>	Might poke him about it later
[12:41:32] <Splarka>	right
[12:41:33] <Draicone>	Anyway, I better head off
[12:41:35] <Splarka>	but poke brion or domas
[12:41:40] <Splarka>	and ask them to reduce maxage to 1 day
[12:41:46] <Splarka>	if they say no, negotiate
[12:41:52] <Splarka>	31 days is insane ^_^
[12:41:54] <Draicone>	Thanks for your help, I'll probably be on tomorrow and I'll let you know how it goes
[12:42:01] <Splarka>	bah
[12:42:04] <Splarka>	I am not your diary ^_^
[12:42:14] <Draicone>	I could just ask them to let us host CSS off-site, but yes
[12:42:18] *Splarka 	is helping Tim break in the new parser, and break the whole project
[12:42:21] <Splarka>	well
[12:42:22] <Draicone>	Oh, that can be arranged ;)
[12:42:23] <Splarka>	you don't have to ask
[12:42:30] <Draicone>	We don't?
[12:42:44] <Draicone>	Is there a single file where we can @import and bypass the cache?
[12:42:45] <Splarka>	@import "http://myurl.com/mycss.css"
[12:42:52] <Splarka>	to the top of the common/monobook
[12:42:57] <Draicone>	Yes, but wouldn't the CSS file with that rule be cached
[12:42:59] <Splarka>	and then have that server return non-caching headers
[12:43:03] <Splarka>	and then wait 31 days
[12:43:06] <Splarka>	and then you are home free
[12:43:12] <Draicone>	Hooray! 31 days from now.
[12:43:17] <Draicone>	Best get started sooner than later ;)
[12:43:21] <Splarka>	exactly
[12:43:29] <Draicone>	Anyway, thanks for all your help
[12:43:32] <Draicone>	See you round :)
[12:43:34] <Splarka>	noprobo
[12:43:37] <Splarka>	enjoy your cache
[12:43:50] <Draicone>	Will do :P
[12:46:15] <GrandiJoos>	Splarka: I added it to the monobook.php file, it works now but I'm afraid that hits from users with other skins don't get counted... 2bad
[12:47:10] <Splarka>	you could add it to each skin...
[12:47:14] <GrandiJoos>	hmz, true
[12:47:28] <Splarka>	but monobook is by far the most used, unless you set another default skin
[12:47:56] <GrandiJoos>	yeah, I think everybody uses monobook but still, I want to catch every user, maybe I'll uninstall the other skins :D
[12:48:01] <GrandiJoos>	thnx for the help anyway!
[12:48:13] <GrandiJoos>	*remove anyway ;)
[13:10:32] <CIA-41>	03siebrand * r29916 10/trunk/extensions/cldr/LocalNamesEn.php: Add a few local names
[14:01:55] <CIA-41>	03evan * r29917 10/branches/openid_2.0_update/OpenID/ (9 files): 
[14:01:55] <CIA-41>	Lots of changes.
[14:01:55] <CIA-41>	Fixed OpenIDFinish so it doesn't restore a complex object -- just a
[14:01:55] <CIA-41>	string -- in the SESSION.
[14:01:56] <CIA-41>	Some TODO maintenance.
[14:01:58] <CIA-41>	Fixed up copyright notices.
[14:15:26] <CyborgMax>	Hi, i want to user TeX commands \prec and  \succ in MediaWiki. I installed mediawiki1.7 and mediawiki1.7-math on ubuntu Dapper 6.06.1. Every other LaTeX stuff (as far as i tested it) is working. Only some LaTeX commands seem to be unknown.
[14:24:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Please let installer auto-enable extensions bundled in a MediaWiki tarball - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10596  (10seventowers)
[14:27:28] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29918 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Parser_OldPP.php: Fixing parser bug that broke API rollback: use $this->mTitle instead of $wgTitle (the latter is NULL in API calls).
[14:28:07] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: You were the one doing the parser stuff right?
[14:31:22] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) requesting Special:Userlogin shortcode Special:Userlogin/ signup - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12674 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (c.stafford)
[14:34:26] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29919 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ (ApiBase.php ApiDelete.php ApiLogout.php ApiRollback.php): 
[14:34:26] <CIA-41>	API:
[14:34:26] <CIA-41>	* Refactored ApiDelete to use the new dieUsageMsg() system
[14:34:26] <CIA-41>	* Adding some more messages to ApiBase::$messageMap
[14:34:26] <CIA-41>	* Also using dieUsageMsg() for API-related errors in ApiRollback
[14:34:28] <CIA-41>	* Removing 'lo' prefix for ApiLogout as it doesn't have any parameters anyway
[14:40:33] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Please enable import sources for gd.wp - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12675 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (raimond.spekking)
[14:48:40] <Tough>	Hello
[14:49:11] <RoanKattouw>	Hi
[14:49:23] <Tough>	Anyone around that could answer a few questions about Wiki management?
[14:49:27] <RoanKattouw>	Sure
[14:50:25] <Tough>	Currently have a project that our Cyberspace Security program has set up called "SecUbuntu" and along with that we have a Wiki and are getting a ton of bot spam
[14:50:28] <Tough>	per day
[14:50:43] <Morbus>	SpamBlacklist
[14:50:44] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[14:51:00] <RoanKattouw>	Do you allow anonymous (not logged-in) users to edit?
[14:51:01] <Tough>	Any solutions to this other then block & delete? i'm only a sysop
[14:51:07] <Jack_Phoenix>	spamRegex is worthy of having a look too ;-)
[14:51:22] <Jack_Phoenix>	very cool extension, doesn't really require a "shared" user DB or such
[14:51:35] <Tough>	Yes, anon are allowed, but the bots always reg an account
[14:51:36] <Morbus>	rougly analagous to maintaining your own procmailrc though ;)
[14:51:55] <RoanKattouw>	Tough: There is an extension that enables CAPCHAs on registration
[14:52:13] <RoanKattouw>	!captcha | Tough
[14:52:13] --mwbot--	Tough: For more information about CAPTCHAs and MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit>.
[14:52:31] <Morbus>	ew, captchas evil.
[14:52:37] <Tough>	Ok, great I'll forward this all to my beurocrat :)
[14:52:57] <RoanKattouw>	Tough: Bcrat permissions are not enough, you really have to run the site to do this
[14:53:23] <Tough>	Yes, our bcrat is the teacher of the course that we are in, he owns the server ^_^
[14:53:37] <RoanKattouw>	Good
[14:55:22] <Tough>	btw mwbot is giving out bad clickable links, needs a space at the end or you get >. in every link
[14:55:36] <RoanKattouw>	Tough: I don't, your IRC client is bad
[14:55:51] <RoanKattouw>	ChatZilla handles them just fine
[14:56:35] <Tough>	ah, must be this CGI:IRC then. Just using a web based one as 6667 is blocked on our router
[14:56:46] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[14:57:14] <RoanKattouw>	BTW, ConfirmEdit requires CAPTCHAs on registration *and* on every edit that adds an external (i.e. off-wiki) link
[14:57:38] <RoanKattouw>	Those are the default settings, anyway, it's customizable
[14:58:13] <Morbus>	yeah, <> are fairly standard URL delimiters.
[14:58:21] <Morbus>	most email clients also uunderstand them.
[14:59:56] *Tough 	slaps the stupid web client for not understanding <>
[15:01:18] <Li-sung>	Could <math> work on Windows ? 
[15:03:59] <VasilievVV>	Li-sung: no
[15:04:16] <VasilievVV>	Or maybe yes, I don;t know must about OCaml
[15:07:37] <frieze>	anyone know where (presumably in the includes somewhere) the dialog for login errors gets called? I've put login in teh sidebar so when someone enters a bad password or whatever they get two login windows (one main and one in the sidebar). I want it to just show the loginerror message
[15:07:55] <RoanKattouw>	frieze: includes/SpecialUserlogin.php ?
[15:12:02] <frieze>	RoanKattouw: thanks. for some reason I was looking for loginerror instad of nosuchuser and whatnot in there. it's the right one.
[15:23:05] <frieze>	RoanKattouw: fyi it's actually there and in /includes/template/Userlogin.php
[15:29:37] <CIA-41>	03siebrand * r29920 10/trunk/phase3/languages/Names.php: Fix srn UI display name
[15:42:40] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) enwikibooks: let sysops grant patroller and rollbacker permissions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12676 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (mike.lifeguard)
[15:52:52] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29921 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[15:52:52] <CIA-41>	Core:
[15:52:52] <CIA-41>	* Using getUserPermissionsErrors() rather than userCan() in Title::isValidMoveOperation()
[15:52:52] <CIA-41>	* Removing blocked check from Article::doRollback(): Title::getUserPermissionsErrors() checks for that already
[15:52:52] <CIA-41>	API:
[15:52:54] <CIA-41>	* Refactoring ApiMove to use new messages system
[15:52:58] <CIA-41>	* Adding more messages to ApiBase::$messageMap
[15:55:14] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29922 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Whoops, we should check for move *and* edit permissions.
[15:57:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) enwikibooks: let sysops grant patroller and rollbacker permissions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12676  +comment (10jeluf)
[16:00:34] <Majorly>	lol JeLuf ;)
[16:01:28] <JeLuF>	I didn't ask for a written decision by the board, as suggested by jimbo
[16:01:45] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29923 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ (ApiBase.php ApiDelete.php ApiMove.php ApiRollback.php): API: Unifying "the ... parameter must be set" messages into one ('missingparam'), expanding $1 in error codes as well.
[16:11:07] <andre__>	hello
[16:11:34] <andre__>	is there a way to get the last modification day of a given article?
[16:11:34] <RoanKattouw>	Hi
[16:11:56] <RoanKattouw>	!magicword | andre__ 
[16:11:56] --mwbot--	andre__: For more information about creating magic words and their inner workings, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Magic_words>. For a list of magic words, please see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words>.
[16:11:59] <RoanKattouw>	Second link
[16:12:56] <andre__>	this only works in the article itself, right?
[16:13:22] <andre__>	i was looking for something like [[Foo]] (last changed on ...)
[16:13:26] <Duesentrieb>	where do you want to use it?
[16:13:49] <andre__>	i have a list of links to articles
[16:13:51] <Duesentrieb>	ah, on another page. hm... not sure that's possible
[16:13:57] <andre__>	i'd like to put that date beside each link
[16:14:04] <Duesentrieb>	the news extension does something like that, but not for a fixed page
[16:14:44] <Duesentrieb>	hm... pageby does something like that too - but also not quite. but you may be able to abuse it
[16:14:54] <Duesentrieb>	or write your own extension, using the two above as examples :)
[16:15:29] <Duesentrieb>	those use the rc table though - which only goes back 7 days per default (30 on wikipedia)
[16:17:28] <Morbus>	how does mediawiki sendmail? local mta? i'm not seeing it in my logs...
[16:18:12] <Tango42>	Hi! I'm working on making an option to make titles completely case insensitive, and I've ended up having make much some minor changes to the way usernames are dealt with and I wanted to run it by people to see if there's anything it might break that I've missed.
[16:18:42] <Morbus>	nevermind.
[16:19:51] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29924 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Check both the old and the new title of course. What was I smoking?
[16:20:33] <Tango42>	I don't want to have usernames case insensitive, so I've made an exception when mNamespace=NS_USER, however when usernames are canonicalised, they are run through Title::newFromName without any namespace, so I've gone through and changed all the newFromName($name)'s to newFromName($name, NS_USER) and changed a few things that obviously relied on the previous behaviour, and it seems to be...
[16:20:34] <Tango42>	...working (more testing is required before committing anything - I've only tested in English so far, for a start). Is there anything that's likely to break from canonicalising usernames as pages in the user namespace rather than main?
[16:21:09] <Tango42>	I've just realised I need to make an exception for usertalk pages as well...
[16:21:24] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[16:21:41] <frieze>	andre__: I wrote a script that does that
[16:21:55] <frieze>	uses an internal API call 
[16:21:58] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: is the global used for something else in r29918?
[16:22:14] <andre__>	frieze: do you have it anywhere online?
[16:22:29] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: You mean $wgTitle ?  Not that I'm aware of
[16:22:40] <RoanKattouw>	There is some code that checks whether $this->mTitle === NULL and $wgTitle is good
[16:22:48] <RoanKattouw>	In which case $this->mTitle is set to $wgTitle
[16:23:07] <RoanKattouw>	But I suggest you go grepping, I don't really know the parser well enough
[16:23:13] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: so the global statement is needed?
[16:23:13] <RoanKattouw>	Cost me 15 mins to track that one down
[16:23:37] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: Dunno
[16:25:17] <frieze>	andre__: sending it do you via dvv
[16:25:20] <frieze>	dcc rather
[16:25:40] <andre__>	frieze: won't work, i'm behind nat :(
[16:27:06] <frieze>	can you msg me your email address?
[16:27:19] <andre__>	sure
[16:28:55] <VasilievVV>	Any ideas why performAction() is called from inintialize()?
[16:29:51] <RoanKattouw>	VasilievVV: Which class
[16:30:07] <VasilievVV>	RoanKattouw: MediaWiki
[16:30:19] <RoanKattouw>	Global functions?
[16:32:15] <VasilievVV>	RoanKattouw: no, the class from includes/Wiki.php
[16:32:34] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm I don't know that part of the code
[16:32:58] <RoanKattouw>	I don't really know much about the core code, except for {Article,Title,User}.php
[16:33:10] <VasilievVV>	RoanKattouw: you didn't read entry point of MediaWiki?
[16:33:17] <RoanKattouw>	Nope
[16:33:33] <RoanKattouw>	Don't care what it does, as long as my ApiBase::execute() method is called ;)
[16:33:33] <Tango42>	isn't perfromAction() the bit which actually fulfils the request? It kind of needs to be called...
[16:34:50] <VasilievVV>	Tango42: yes, it is called from MediaWiki::initialize() and it calls some function depends on 'action' parameter value
[16:34:54] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29925 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ (ApiBase.php ApiMove.php ApiProtect.php): 
[16:34:54] <CIA-41>	API:
[16:34:54] <CIA-41>	* Refactored ApiProtect. No need for core modifications this time :)
[16:34:54] <CIA-41>	* Added permissions check to ApiMove to protect against messages with arguments getting none. moveTo()'s return value should really be modified, see also comment
[16:35:13] <Tango42>	yes, so what's the problem?
[16:35:18] <Tango42>	brb
[16:35:29] <andre__>	frieze: PM
[16:35:37] <VasilievVV>	Tango42: performAction() isn't initialization
[16:35:53] <andre__>	:/
[16:49:45] <VasilievVV>	What about splitting timestamp and message functions from GlobalFunctions.php?
[16:54:53] <Tango42>	well no, it isn't... I guess it should be called after initialisation is called rather than from within initialisation, but it works...
[16:55:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Multilingual server error message specifies inadequate fonts - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12673  (10mxn)
[16:57:24] <Tango42>	The reason I just disappeared was to go and help my housemate with some Java - she was trying to run a system command by creating a batch file, saving the command to the batch file, calling a new class and having that class run the batch file... I'm not sure why it didn't work, but I got her to just run the command without all the batch file rubbish and it worked fine. Why, oh why, is a 3rd...
[16:57:25] <Tango42>	...year CompSci student using such strange and convoluted coding practices?
[16:59:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) enwikibooks: let sysops grant patroller and rollbacker permissions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12676  (10mike.lifeguard)
[17:00:52] <andre__>	i'm trying to use pageby on a template, something like <pageby>{{{title}}}</pageby>, but i think it's trying to get the info for "{{{title}}}" when i save the template, because it gives me an error
[17:01:15] <andre__>	is it possible to tell it not to evaluate it on the template itself?
[17:03:02] <zenkat>	hello ... anyone online familiar w/ the mediawiki data dumps?
[17:15:25] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Namespace request for Wikibooks Turkish - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12677 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (serhat.er.95)
[17:15:39] <CIA-41>	03vasilievvv * r29926 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): * (bug 10049) Prefix index search and namespaces in Special:Withoutinterwiki
[17:16:01] <Sundance_Raphael>	hi
[17:18:48] <CIA-41>	03rotem * r29927 10/trunk/phase3/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Update.
[17:19:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Upload item in toolbox and Special:Upload shouldn' t be visible to users without right to upload - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12678 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (danny_b)
[17:21:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Upload item in toolbox and Special:Upload shouldn' t be visible to users without right to upload - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12678  (10robin_1273)
[17:26:16] <srhat>	srhat: /nickserv
[17:26:17] <e_s_p>	Would it be evil to create a parser function...
[17:26:49] <e_s_p>	...that faked named parameters, like {{#myfunction:foo=1|bar=3}} ?
[17:27:07] <e_s_p>	Simply splitting out the "param=" at the beginning?
[17:27:53] <e_s_p>	I'm working on a parser function for generating microformats (hcard, hevent, etc.)
[17:28:19] <e_s_p>	and there are a couple of dozen possible parameters to each...
[17:28:41] <e_s_p>	So using positional parameters would be a pain in the ass
[17:30:44] <zenkat>	hello ... anyone online familiar w/ the mediawiki data dumps?
[17:38:07] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, I've practically never touched the parser in my life.
[17:38:15] <Simetrical>	Except for trying some patches on header handling.
[17:38:16] <RoanKattouw>	Oh
[17:38:26] <RoanKattouw>	Oh right I remember
[17:38:30] <RoanKattouw>	It's TimStarling
[17:43:41] <Simetrical>	Er, yes.
[17:43:46] <Simetrical>	He's the parser guru here.
[17:45:36] <RoanKattouw>	Well there was an assumption somewhere deep down in the old parser that $this->mTitle == $wgTitle
[17:45:44] <RoanKattouw>	Which is not true for API calls
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29928 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	* Refactoring IPBlockForm::doBlock() to return message keys
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	* Refactoring ApiBlock accordingly
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	* Adding check for blockemail right to ApiBlock
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	* Adding more messages to ApiBase::$messageMap
[17:48:16] <CIA-41>	* Fixing E_NOTICE in SpecialIpblocklist.php
[17:57:52] <Tango42>	I'll try asking this again, maybe there's someone here that knows the answer now. I'm working on making an option to make titles completely case insensitive, and I've ended up having make much some minor changes to the way usernames are dealt with and I wanted to run it by people to see if there's anything it might break that I've missed.
[17:57:58] <Tango42>	>	I don't want to have usernames case insensitive, so I've made an exception when mNamespace=NS_USER, however when usernames are canonicalised, they are run through Title::newFromName without any namespace, so I've gone through and changed all the newFromName($name)'s to newFromName($name, NS_USER) and changed a few things that obviously relied on the previous behaviour, and it seems to be...
[17:58:00] <Tango42>	...working (more testing is required before committing anything - I've only tested in English so far, for a start). Is there anything that's likely to break from canonicalising usernames as pages in the user namespace rather than main?
[17:58:48] <RoanKattouw>	I don
[17:59:05] <RoanKattouw>	't think so, but I'm not an expert
[18:03:07] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Redlinks are not displayed in all Special pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12679 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (pok148)
[18:07:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Multilingual server error message specifies inadequate fonts - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12673  (10jeluf)
[18:07:30] <Kyrin>	how is subst different from a normal template inclusion?
[18:07:51] <RoanKattouw>	Kyrin: subst: actually puts the contents of the template in the article text
[18:08:06] <RoanKattouw>	Try it in the Sandbox, difference between {{template}} and {{subst:template}
[18:08:16] <larmeh__>	how can i print a function's signature?
[18:08:17] <RoanKattouw>	Then go and edit the Sandbox again
[18:08:31] <larmeh__>	oops, wrong channel, sorry
[18:08:35] <RoanKattouw>	{{template}} is still there, but{{subst:template}} will have been replaced by the template's content
[18:09:21] <Kyrin>	RoanKattouw: ah, okay, thanks for that :)
[18:11:05] <Kyrin>	so, when you open a page to edit, you should never see a {{subst:*}} tag in there
[18:11:14] <RoanKattouw>	That's right
[18:11:17] <Kyrin>	k
[18:13:28] <darkcode>	unless its inside <nowiki></nowiki>...
[18:14:13] <Zach>	is there any reason I shouldn't have an extension modify the categorylinks table directly without editing any page text?
[18:14:33] <RoanKattouw>	Zach: Depends
[18:14:39] <RoanKattouw>	What exactly are you doing?
[18:14:46] <Simetrical>	Zach, the next time the page gets saved, your changes will be overwritten.
[18:18:44] <Zach>	hm, i wanted to have a new action that would add or remove a certain category from a page
[18:19:26] <RoanKattouw>	Add shouldn't be a problem, but if you remove it, it'll be re-added upon the next edit
[18:20:59] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) enwikibooks: let sysops grant patroller and rollbacker permissions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12676  +comment (10jeluf)
[18:22:44] <GhostlyDeath>	How do I edit the EDiting page?
[18:24:09] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, surely an added category will also be removed on the next edit?
[18:24:20] <RoanKattouw>	I don't think it would
[18:24:22] <Simetrical>	Otherwise ghost categories would be present sometimes.
[18:24:30] <Simetrical>	Actually, of course it does.
[18:24:42] <Simetrical>	Otherwise if you removed the [[Category:]] link from the page, the category would stay.
[18:24:44] <Simetrical>	Which clearly it doesn't.
[18:24:47] <RoanKattouw>	True
[18:24:54] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Please enable import sources for gd.wp - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12675  +comment (10jeluf)
[18:25:13] <RoanKattouw>	So it does DELETE FROM categorylinks WHERE cl_from = page_id; and then re-adds the cats found in the new text?
[18:25:30] <Simetrical>	I imagine so.
[18:25:40] <Simetrical>	It has to do something of the sort.
[18:26:07] <Simetrical>	More likely it does DELETE ... WHERE cl_from = page_id AND cl_to NOT IN (....);
[18:26:12] <Simetrical>	Or something like that.
[18:26:16] <Simetrical>	I dunno, go look.  :)
[18:26:42] <RoanKattouw>	Nah, too lazy, too busy refactoring API modules
[18:28:24] <GhostlyDeath>	What MediaWiki: link is the Edit Page?
[18:29:23] <MrZ-man>	GhostlyDeath: which part of the page?
[18:30:09] <Simetrical>	GhostlyDeath, look on Special:Allmessages.
[18:30:14] <GhostlyDeath>	MrZ-man: The one where the huge textbox is for page edits
[18:30:43] <MrZ-man>	Different chunks are in different messages
[18:31:01] <RoanKattouw>	Most of the HTML is actually hard-coded in includes/EditPage.php
[18:31:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) New:=?UTF-8?Q?=20the=20inclusion=20of=20=C2=AB=20?= =?UTF-8?Q?empty=20=C2=BB=20special=20page?= =?UTF-8?Q?s=20with=20=7B=7Bspecial?=: Foo}} should either generate valid or no code - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12680  (10N/A)
[18:31:36] <MrZ-man>	there's MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning, MediaWiki:Summary
[18:32:27] <MrZ-man>	MediaWiki:Edittools
[18:32:55] <MrZ-man>	the toolbar buttons can be changed with JavaScript
[18:33:30] <GhostlyDeath>	What about below the header
[18:33:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Redlinks are not displayed in all Special pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12679  +comment (10pok148)
[18:35:02] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Change "Site requests" component to "Site creation requests" - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12598  +comment (10robin_1273)
[18:35:40] <kibble>	O_o
[18:36:48] <GhostlyDeath>	woops wrong one
[18:38:14] <eghjaytee>	Hello, does anyone know how mediawiki makes calls to squid to purge? I am looking to replace squid with varnish
[18:38:25] <eghjaytee>	are they just http requests?
[18:39:50] <Simetrical>	eghjaytee, look in includes/Squid*.
[18:44:27] <eghjaytee>	thanks Simetrical. have you seen anyone using varnish?
[18:46:40] <Simetrical>	eghjaytee, never heard of it.
[18:48:24] <mutante>	hmm, i could really use some "PDF2Wiki" converter for a one-time task, i bet its almost an FAQ? 
[18:48:42] <RoanKattouw>	mutante: OpenOffice can save to wiki
[18:48:47] <RoanKattouw>	Maybe it can also open PDF?
[18:49:03] <mutante>	wow, i didnt know, thanks
[18:50:05] <andre__>	when i put a section in a template, the edit link edits the template itself, not the section on the article that uses the template
[18:50:08] <andre__>	can that be changed?
[18:50:43] <Simetrical>	OpenOffice can certainly open and save PDFs.
[18:50:49] <brion>	eghjaytee: htcp atm i think
[18:50:56] <Simetrical>	Because Adobe hasn't cracked down on anyone but Microsoft.
[18:52:50] <T-Vairus>	hi everybody :) i will create a imagegallery, but mediawiki resize the images (thumbnails) automatic to 200 pixel - how can i change that, i mean, how can i control the imagesize of the pics? here the test gallery http://web24.wkh2.wk-hosting.de/mediawiki/index.php/Test_Galerie
[18:54:15] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29929 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (SpecialIpblocklist.php api/ApiBase.php api/ApiUnblock.php): 
[18:54:15] <CIA-41>	* Refactored IPUnblockForm::doUnblock() to return an array of message keys and parameters
[18:54:15] <CIA-41>	* Refactored IPUnblockForm::doSubmit() and ApiUnblock accordingly
[18:54:15] <CIA-41>	* Added even more messages to ApiBase::$messageMap
[18:54:42] <T-Vairus>	sorry - mediawiki make the size to 86x120 pixel and my wishsize is 200 pixel *g*
[18:56:10] <vladanian>	Hey guys -- I'd like to be able to sort pages in a particular category on my mediawiki wiki by date created
[18:56:21] <vladanian>	 I thought maybe I could fix things so that a unique id would be pre-pended to new pages, and then the category page would sort by that
[18:56:37] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: If you see TimStarling around, please tell him LocalFile::nextHistoryLine() (which he wrote) is so DB inefficient that Domas could potentially kill him if he found out about it
[18:57:59] <Simetrical>	Well, sofixit.  Or tell Domas or Tim yourself.
[18:58:39] <Simetrical>	(I assume you realize that Tim > Domas in our mostly-fairly-flat development hierarchy here.  Not that that would stop Domas from killing something inefficient just because Tim wrote it.)
[18:59:06] <RoanKattouw>	Well yeah, Tim's above Domas, forgot that
[18:59:30] <RoanKattouw>	I filed a bug about it two days ago, but only now do I realize how bad it is
[18:59:35] <RoanKattouw>	I'll bump the bug with that new info
[19:00:43] <Simetrical>	What bug number?
[19:00:57] <VasilievVV>	http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12645
[19:01:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) File histories should be paged, requires modification of File. php and friends - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12645  normal->high; +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[19:01:26] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Change "Site requests" component to "Site creation requests" - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12598  +comment (10jeluf)
[19:01:50] <RoanKattouw>	VasilievVV said he'd try to fix it tomorrow
[19:01:59] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, in practice, how many image revisions are there, usually?
[19:02:09] <RoanKattouw>	Not nearly enough
[19:02:09] <Simetrical>	So I don't think it's a huge problem in practice, although it should be fixed anyway.
[19:02:11] <RoanKattouw>	<50
[19:02:16] <Simetrical>	Right.
[19:02:25] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah, well, it is exploitable by anyone with upload rights
[19:02:25] <Simetrical>	Mostly people are more possessive of images, and they're harder to edit, too.
[19:02:40] <Simetrical>	There are probably easier DoSes than that.
[19:02:40] <RoanKattouw>	Upload lots of small images over one another to create a huge history
[19:03:07] <RoanKattouw>	Well how many of those easier ones can cause OOM errors?
[19:03:08] <Simetrical>	It would take quite a lot of bandwidth, and the PHP process would just be killed for running too long eventually.
[19:03:18] <RoanKattouw>	Exactly
[19:03:24] <RoanKattouw>	You get an OOM or max runtime error
[19:03:31] <Simetrical>	OOM only affects the viewer of that particular image, so it's hardly crippling.
[19:03:38] <Simetrical>	I agree, yeah, it's undesirable.  But not critical.
[19:03:44] <Simetrical>	Or even major, IMO.
[19:03:53] <RoanKattouw>	Still, someone wanting to delete an image can effectively do so
[19:04:05] <Simetrical>	It can always be fixed by just deleting the image, assuming the delete page doesn't try to display the whole history.
[19:04:15] <RoanKattouw>	I don't know whether it does
[19:04:25] *RoanKattouw 	tries
[19:04:47] <Simetrical>	By the way, if you or VasilievVV is going to fix this, don't use LIMIT M, N.  Paging should always use, e.g., date offsets.
[19:04:53] <Simetrical>	Otherwise it's very inefficient anyway.
[19:05:05] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah I know
[19:05:15] <RoanKattouw>	Timestamp or (if available) revid offsets
[19:05:50] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Image delete doesn't display the lgo
[19:06:31] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Add "Site creations and closings" component - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12598  summary; +comment (10robin_1273)
[19:06:47] <will_hough>	I'm having trouble getting mod rewrite to work correctly with my install. I get 'index.php' removed, but I loose all my stle info.
[19:07:01] <will_hough>	s/stle/style
[19:07:17] <Simetrical>	The offset should be whichever you're ordering by, to avoid a filesort.  If you're ordering by id, use id offsets.  If you're ordering by timestamp, change the ordering to (timestamp, id) and use that for your offset (can have multiple identical timestamps).
[19:07:27] <Simetrical>	!shorturl | will_hough 
[19:07:27] --mwbot--	will_hough: To create simple URLs (such as the /wiki/PAGENAME style URLs on Wikimedia sites), follow the instructions at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL>. There are instructions for most different webserver setups. If you have problems getting the rewrite rules to work, see !rewriteproblem
[19:07:28] <RoanKattouw>	!rewriteproblems | will_hough 
[19:07:28] --mwbot--	will_hough: use 0) use this method: <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL/wiki/Page_title_--_no_root_access> 1) Do not put the files into the document root; 2) Do not map the pages into the document root; 3) Use different paths for real files and virtual pages; 4) Do not set a RewriteBase; 5) Put all rules into the .htaccess file in the document root.
[19:07:35] <RoanKattouw>	Oops
[19:07:47] <Simetrical>	will_hough, you're probably breaking 1-3.
[19:07:49] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah
[19:08:17] <Simetrical>	Anyway, RoanKattouw, "major" is for issues with no user-end workaround.  This has one, although not an easy one, so I'd call it "normal".
[19:08:38] <RoanKattouw>	Ok
[19:08:54] <will_hough>	my install is not in a subdirectory within my subdomain
[19:09:17] <Simetrical>	will_hough, where is it installed and what do the pretty URLs look like?
[19:09:23] <will_hough>	it is in the root of my subdomain
[19:09:32] <will_hough>	http://wiki.willhough.net/Main_Page
[19:09:33] <RoanKattouw>	Rule #1
[19:09:43] <RoanKattouw>	will_hough: Where are the real .php files?
[19:09:54] <will_hough>	in the root of the subdomain
[19:10:03] <Simetrical>	will_hough, don't do that.
[19:10:18] <RoanKattouw>	will_hough: Put the real files in /w and map the pages as /wiki/Main_Page
[19:10:20] <will_hough>	there _has_ do be a directory?
[19:10:52] <RoanKattouw>	will_hough: Yes. You could potentially put the files in WWW.example.com/w and the pretty URLs as WIKI.example.com/MainPage
[19:10:56] <RoanKattouw>	That would be possible
[19:11:00] <RoanKattouw>	But they can't overlap
[19:11:31] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, that's still problematic.
[19:11:38] <RoanKattouw>	How?
[19:11:41] <Simetrical>	For things like robots.txt, favicon.ico, . . .
[19:11:47] <Simetrical>	Some files are expected to be in the web root.
[19:11:50] <RoanKattouw>	True
[19:12:05] <Simetrical>	will_hough, you *can* have the pretty URLs at the page root, but it's *not* recommended.
[19:12:10] <RoanKattouw>	You should probably just go with the /w and /wiki method
[19:12:22] *will_hough 	cries
[19:12:29] <will_hough>	it's redundant
[19:12:40] <RoanKattouw>	No, not really
[19:12:53] <RoanKattouw>	Like Simetrical said, robots.txt & co. have to be in the document root
[19:13:06] <RoanKattouw>	Search engines will freak out if /robots.txt is a wiki page
[19:14:22] <CIA-41>	03nikerabbit * r29930 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (CreateMessageIndex.php MessageGroups.php): * Some fixes
[19:15:20] <will_hough>	So I need to install it in a directory within the subdomain?
[19:15:26] <RoanKattouw>	Yep
[19:15:28] <will_hough>	then use the /w method.
[19:15:29] <RoanKattouw>	Preferably /w
[19:15:41] <RoanKattouw>	So put the files in /w (/w/index.php and friends)
[19:15:58] <RoanKattouw>	Than Alias /wiki /var/www/subdomains/wiki/w/index.php
[19:16:02] <RoanKattouw>	Or wherever that stuff is
[19:16:05] <RoanKattouw>	*then
[19:16:09] <will_hough>	ha, okie dokie
[19:16:21] <will_hough>	I thought I could make it work this way :(
[19:16:29] <will_hough>	thanks for your help .
[19:38:40] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29931 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (SpecialUndelete.php api/ApiBase.php api/ApiUndelete.php): 
[19:38:40] <CIA-41>	* Changing PageArchive::undelete() and undeleteRevisions() to return false rather than an error code
[19:38:40] <CIA-41>	* Refactoring ApiUndelete to use ApiBase::dieUsageMsg()
[19:38:40] <CIA-41>	* Adding new messages to ApiBase::$messageMap
[19:39:20] <RoanKattouw>	*Finally*, all the refactoring is done
[19:39:39] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: I've refactored all the API edit modules to use the message key system
[19:39:54] <Simetrical>	I saw.
[19:40:00] <Simetrical>	You've been pretty busy over the past couple of days.
[19:40:07] <RoanKattouw>	Hard to miss I guess, ~25 commits in 2 days
[19:40:34] <will_hough>	Simetrical: when I create a subdomain on my server the directory is created. within that directory (http://www.website.com/subdomain/) I need to create the /w directory and place wikimedia inside there, correct?
[19:40:43] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[19:43:13] <RoanKattouw>	AzaTht: PING
[19:43:21] <AzaTht>	yes?
[19:43:51] <RoanKattouw>	You wanted to be able to get the URL for a scaled-down version of an image through prop=imageinfo
[19:44:02] <RoanKattouw>	Do you want the thumb version or just any scaled down version?
[19:46:42] <RoanKattouw>	AzaTht?
[19:46:49] <AzaTht>	yes?
[19:47:10] <AzaTht>	that would probably depend on the situation
[19:47:33] <AzaTht>	but the tumb version mostly
[19:47:36] <AzaTht>	thumb*
[19:47:40] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[19:48:04] <RoanKattouw>	I can do user-specified dimensions, but that would cause a new image to be created if it didn't exist yet
[19:48:26] <RoanKattouw>	Is that bad?
[19:50:39] <RoanKattouw>	AzaTht?
[19:51:00] <AzaTht>	no
[19:51:02] <AzaTht>	it's good
[19:51:07] <RoanKattouw>	Alright
[19:51:14] <RoanKattouw>	I'll go ahead and write it then
[19:51:18] <AzaTht>	as you would probably want to use the image if you requested it :)
[19:51:25] <RoanKattouw>	True
[19:52:01] <RoanKattouw>	I was kinda worried about DoS (thumb dir getting filled up) but [[Image:Something|123px]] somewhere on a page will also trigger the creation of a 123x123 thumb
[19:52:13] <RoanKattouw>	Even previewing your edit wil
[19:52:15] <RoanKattouw>	l
[19:55:21] <[1]iamtim>	Hey guys, anyone available?
[19:56:07] <[1]iamtim>	I am runnign mediawiki on a hosted solution, I've had no problems. This morning, I moved my Joomlaand wiki instalations, placing my Joomla over the root directory, and now my wiki is blank.
[19:56:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "Site creations and closings" component - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12598  (10jeluf)
[19:56:26] <[1]iamtim>	I've narrowed it to the .htaccess file, I think...
[20:05:40] <will_hough>	RoanKattouw: got it
[20:06:09] <will_hough>	This article worked for me - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL/wiki.example.com/Page_title--Subdomain_with_no_Subdirectory_in_Article_URL
[20:06:39] <RoanKattouw>	Good
[20:07:28] <RoanKattouw>	You might want to deny access to robots.txt and favicon.ico in your .htaccess so as to not confuse search agents et al
[20:09:28] <[1]iamtim>	ok
[20:10:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "Site creations and closings" component - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12598  (10robin_1273)
[20:11:59] <T-Vairus_>	hi everybody :) i will create a imagegallery, but mediawiki resize the images (thumbnails) automatic to 86x120  pixel (i want 200) - how can i change that, i mean, how can i control the imagesize of the pics? here the test gallery http://web24.wkh2.wk-hosting.de/mediawiki/index.php/Test_Galerie
[20:12:50] <Simetrical>	!gallery
[20:12:50] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "gallery". You might try: !skins 
[20:12:53] <Simetrical>	Feh.
[20:13:16] <T-Vairus_>	what?
[20:13:27] <Simetrical>	What version are you using?
[20:13:33] <T-Vairus_>	please look at my test gallery
[20:13:39] <T-Vairus_>	it is 1.6 i think
[20:13:41] <Simetrical>	I'm pretty sure <gallery> has some parameters that allow you to change the size and so on.
[20:13:45] <Simetrical>	Oh, not in 1.6.
[20:13:58] <T-Vairus_>	not possible to control the size?
[20:14:00] <Simetrical>	You'll have to upgrade, or display your pictures in some other way.
[20:14:04] <Simetrical>	No, not in 1.6.
[20:14:32] <T-Vairus_>	i understand - jupp, i have to wait... because my server has only php 4 i think... thanks for the answer anyway :)
[20:14:54] <Simetrical>	Yeah, you can do something like: <gallery widths="100px" heights="200px" perrow="5">
[20:14:56] <Simetrical>	Or similar.
[20:15:04] <Simetrical>	But that's only in some more recent version.
[20:15:11] <Simetrical>	I don't know when it was added, offhand.
[20:15:35] <Simetrical>	PHP 4 is no longer actively maintained by Zend, it should be considered completely obsolete and any host who doesn't provide PHP 5 at this point completely sucks.
[20:15:35] <T-Vairus_>	ok. i hope the upgradelater to the 1.11 version is easy?
[20:15:49] <T-Vairus_>	thats right sime
[20:16:00] <T-Vairus_>	my hoster will it change in 2 or 3 month he said
[20:16:02] <Simetrical>	Yes, it should be easy, especially if you have shell access.  But also perfectly possible if you just have FTP access.
[20:16:03] <Simetrical>	!upgrading
[20:16:03] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[20:16:19] <T-Vairus_>	thanks - i will read it
[20:16:27] <Simetrical>	I would suggest that you tell your host he should have upgraded it two years ago and leave, but that may not be practical for you.
[20:16:58] <T-Vairus_>	but in the past (3 serverchanges in 1 year) - nobody of them had php 5 only 4 oO
[20:17:42] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29932 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/api/ApiQueryImageInfo.php): API: Adding thumbnailing support to prop=imageinfo
[20:17:56] <RoanKattouw>	AzaTht: r29932
[20:18:04] <AzaTht>	nice
[20:18:10] <RoanKattouw>	Does anyone have a test wiki with GD support
[20:18:17] <RoanKattouw>	AzaTht: Untested, don't have GD
[20:18:17] <MinuteElectron>	yes
[20:18:22] <MinuteElectron>	I do
[20:18:25] <RoanKattouw>	Then can you test r29932 ?
[20:18:31] <MinuteElectron>	will do
[20:19:32] <MinuteElectron>	Updating... (this will take a minute or two)
[20:20:15] <MinuteElectron>	RoanKattouw: What is the URL I would navigate too in my wiki?
[20:20:45] <will_hough>	RoanKattouw: I have GD, do you need access?
[20:21:06] <RoanKattouw>	 /w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&titles=Image:Example.jpg&iiprop=url&iiurlwidth=123&iiurlheight=123
[20:21:15] <RoanKattouw>	Make sure Image:Example.jpg is an existing image
[20:21:32] <RoanKattouw>	will_hough: Only if you're running the latest SVN version
[20:22:00] <will_hough>	nope, 1.9.3
[20:22:15] <RoanKattouw>	Then I'm afraid you can't help me; we're testing 2-minute old code here ;)
[20:22:26] <will_hough>	I understand 
[20:22:38] <RoanKattouw>	MinuteElectron:  /w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&titles=Image:Example.jpg&iiprop=url&iiurlwidth=123&iiurlheight=123  make sure Image:Example.jpg is an existing image
[20:22:44] <MinuteElectron>	RoanKattouw: voilla http://www.wikitest.co.uk/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&titles=Image:Wiki.png&iiprop=url&iiurlwidth=123&iiurlheight=123
[20:23:22] <RoanKattouw>	It works, thanks a lot
[20:23:29] <MinuteElectron>	no problem
[20:23:33] <RoanKattouw>	It returns a local URL but I guess that's normal
[20:23:45] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, that's normal
[20:23:47] <MinuteElectron>	yup
[20:37:22] <CIA-41>	03dale * r29933 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed "add new transcript" bug
[20:44:12] <CIA-41>	03catrope * r29934 10/trunk/phase3/ (11 files in 2 dirs): API: Making a bunch of state-changing modules require POST requests.
[20:45:33] <RoanKattouw>	Well I think I've coded enough for today
[20:45:50] <RoanKattouw>	Bye all
[20:50:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) It' s not possible to overwrite CSS rules declared in other CSS files with a CSS gadget - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12461  (10gangleri)
[20:56:45] <CIA-41>	03dale * r29935 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/includes/MV_Index.php: fixed "add new transcript" bug (for real)
[20:57:02] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) It' s not possible to overwrite CSS rules declared in other CSS files with a CSS gadget - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12461  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[20:57:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extension stylesheets should be loaded before any others - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[21:04:39] <Kyrin>	I don't suppose #ifexist can check interwiki links, eh?
[21:06:30] <AlexSm>	Kyrin: no
[21:07:01] <Kyrin>	thanks, kinda figured
[21:07:24] <AlexSm>	also see http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10237
[21:10:33] <Kyrin>	hrm
[21:10:52] <Kyrin>	good discussion, too bad it seems to have died?
[21:32:48] <wikibugs>	  - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=  (10gangleri)
[21:41:10] <AlexSm>	gangleri: why do you break wikibugs links? :)
[21:41:39] <gangleri>	What do you mean? Why I use UTF-8 characters?
[21:41:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Redlinks are not displayed in all Special pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12679  +comment (10huji.huji)
[21:42:25] <AlexSm>	gangleri: see bugzilla link above which doesn't have an actual id number
[21:42:50] <gangleri>	mom
[21:42:59] <tauro>	hello
[21:43:27] <tauro>	can somebody speak german?
[21:44:04] <tauro>	??
[21:44:56] <gangleri>	AlexSm  It was http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12226 12226 add « id="wpTextbox1" » to the « textarea » at « [[special:Upload]] »
[21:45:27] <tauro>	can anybody speak german?
[21:46:01] <tauro>	nobody, then I will try in English
[21:46:48] <AlexSm>	gangleri: well, since it happens every time (I think), maybe you could ask "wikibugs" bot owner to fix that ...
[21:47:17] <gangleri>	a good idea; do you have a clue who it is?
[21:52:03] <AlexSm>	gangleri: whois on the bot says mchenry.wikimedia.org, but I cannot find an actual user  by that information :(
[21:52:31] <gangleri>	Thanks; I try at toolserver
[21:54:09] <Kyrin>	Is there something similar to the 'PreloadManager' extension that will do preloaded text for specific namespaces, but actually will include everything, including the <noinclude>/<includeonly>/etc tags... basically include it verbatim?
[21:56:32] <Kyrin>	although I recognize that the "support" for only including the stuff in <includeonly> was added in the latest version, and thus I could simply use the previous version, I'm just wondering if that is my best option
[21:57:43] <gangleri>	AlexSm : http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/pmtpa/?c=Miscellaneous&h=mchenry.wikimedia.org
[21:58:51] <AlexSm>	Ah, so it is a toolserver. Thank you
[22:00:29] <gangleri>	hm; no idea what person takes care of it
[22:03:15] <MZMcBride>	how difficult would it be to get the new messages bar to appear above the H1 instead of below it?
[22:05:21] <AlexSm>	MZMcBride: do you mean a MediaWiki change, so we can get rid of this "practical joke"?
[22:05:30] <MZMcBride>	yes.
[22:05:40] <MZMcBride>	not get rid of it, but at least make it much less effective as a joke
[22:06:23] <AlexSm>	I agree, this should have been implemented a bit differently from the start
[22:06:38] <gangleri>	AlexSm  I found it: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9995  Wikibugs gets confused by bugs with non-ASCII chars in summary
[22:06:54] *MZMcBride 	goes to file a bug
[22:08:03] <AlexSm>	gangleri: well, you are persistent, I was about to advise you to just change your email address :)
[22:08:19] <gangleri>	?
[22:08:41] <AlexSm>	to a non-UTF8 one
[22:09:45] <AlexSm>	or just a nickname, looks like I got confused here
[22:09:52] <gangleri>	you mean the name? or the email address ? the second is 7bitASCII as nicknames here
[22:10:40] *MZMcBride 	waits...
[22:11:05] <gangleri>	I filed this at bugzilla@mozilla moment please
[22:12:50] <MZMcBride>	where is that silly bot?
[22:13:03] <gangleri>	AlexSm that's http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12244 12244 BiDi « .css » error at « MediaZilla »
[22:13:03] *MZMcBride 	kicks wikibugs 
[22:13:36] <MZMcBride>	gangleri: why do you keep using foreign quotation marks in bug summaries?
[22:13:41] <MZMcBride>	it screws up the bot
[22:15:41] <gangleri>	I started to use these quotations just to avoid copying nonprintable general punctuation characters; it realy does not make much sense to use them in bugzilla summaries; but inside the body of the reports
[22:16:32] <gangleri>	MzMcBride if you copy text from recentchanges you will have invizible General punctuation characters in your clipboard
[22:17:09] <gangleri>	but when you cite < foo > qou should know exactly what is text and what not
[22:17:32] <MZMcBride>	just use " "
[22:17:43] <gangleri>	a good idea
[22:21:30] <gangleri>	MZMcBridge I use the quotation also in the file names od my screen dumps ; I have no clue what operating system supports " in filenames
[22:23:48] <unknownq>	is there any easy way to mass delete spam accounts?
[22:24:34] <MZMcBride>	unknownq: deleting accounts in mediawiki is usually pretty difficult
[22:24:52] <MZMcBride>	generally they're either renamed or blocked and left alone
[22:24:54] <unknownq>	even blocking
[22:25:17] <MZMcBride>	well, first, have you put in spam-prevention methods?
[22:25:41] <MZMcBride>	and JS can be used to mass block
[22:25:52] <unknownq>	yeah, it's locked down
[22:28:02] <unknownq>	how so?
[22:28:14] <unknownq>	it's strange that google isn't turning up anything
[22:28:24] <unknownq>	it seems like this must be a pretty common problem
[22:29:11] <MrZ-man>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Spam
[22:29:38] <unknownq>	already read that
[22:30:02] <unknownq>	the problem isn't with stopping new spam, it's deleting killing old spam accounts
[22:30:13] <Duesentrieb>	if you have account creation captcha-protected, spammer accounts shouldn't be a huge problem
[22:30:50] <unknownq>	well i locked it down to only ldap authenticated accounts can login/edit so that's not even an issue
[22:31:14] <unknownq>	i, however, did not lock down old accounts from login as that would make all the users grumpy
[22:31:51] <unknownq>	so now i want to delete the thousands of spam accounts that have been accumulating
[22:33:29] <Duesentrieb>	unknownq: you can effectively disable them by scramling their password fields in the database.
[22:33:44] <Duesentrieb>	just set it to an empty string. loging should then be impossible
[22:34:05] <Duesentrieb>	if you have thousands, doing this in the database is probably easiest anyway
[22:34:09] <unknownq>	Duesentrieb: that's a good call
[22:34:12] <Duesentrieb>	but, as always: make a backup!
[22:34:27] <unknownq>	heh, already past that stage
[22:40:15] <BrokenArrow>	hello. anyone for a one-line fix in Special:ParserDiffTest?
[22:41:21] <BrokenArrow>	(either strip the link from [[$1]] in the default 'pdt_comparing_page' message, or have it parsed)
[22:44:10] *brion 	pokes wikibugs 
[22:44:46] <brion>	it was disabled for bounces again
[22:44:48] <brion>	i hate that :P
[23:17:26] <carl-m>	Would there be any performance or security issue with a new magic word that returns the size of the current page, like {{PAGESIZE}} ? 
[23:40:15] <MZMcBride>	rar
[23:40:19] <yoniDeBest>	yay
[23:40:23] <MZMcBride>	what's up?
[23:40:30] <yoniDeBest>	all's good
[23:41:33] <MZMcBride>	good. so what are you trying to do?
[23:42:20] <yoniDeBest>	the date and year articles in the hebrew wikipedia are getting hard to handle. We have a bot that gets info from the date articles (say [[12 January]]) and puts them in the proper year article (say [[1922]]).
[23:43:34] <yoniDeBest>	but it is getting hard to maintain this bot and the edits that it does. You see, people insert dates into the year page to, and thus the bot makes duplicity.
[23:44:38] <MZMcBride>	have an example?
[23:44:42] <yoniDeBest>	I figured that instead of making a super AI bot that can deal with such duplicity, a date table would be easier to maintain.
[23:44:48] <MZMcBride>	nevermind... let me look
[23:45:31] <MZMcBride>	have actual links?
[23:45:40] <MZMcBride>	there's no [[he:12 January]]
[23:45:46] <yoniDeBest>	sure
[23:45:56] <yoniDeBest>	http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%90%D7%A8
[23:46:15] <MZMcBride>	oh, duh. not actually called January :p
[23:46:22] <yoniDeBest>	yup
[23:47:02] <yoniDeBest>	the above page is edited normally, in a spacipic format: * [[year]] - description
[23:47:07] <yoniDeBest>	now to the year page:
[23:47:26] <yoniDeBest>	http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/1922
[23:48:07] <yoniDeBest>	if you dit the year page you would find templates. for example:
[23:48:08] <yoniDeBest>	http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:%D7%91%D7%95%D7%98/%D7%91%D7%95%D7%98_%D7%A9%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D/1922/%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%93%D7%95
[23:48:42] <yoniDeBest>	i.e. the information for the year articles are taken from the date articles.
[23:49:52] <yoniDeBest>	can you see why there is duplicity?
[23:51:09] <yoniDeBest>	creating a main table which would hold the information of all the events will be better to maintain. idieally this should be done using forms to edit the table.
[23:51:24] <yoniDeBest>	and that's why I wanted to use that extension
[23:54:11] <MZMcBride>	can't you just use transclusion of some sort
[23:54:46] <MZMcBride>	no extension or bot can stop people from adding content where they're not supposed to...
[23:55:31] <yoniDeBest>	its not that they are not supposed to - its that the bot can't know that this info has already been entered.
[23:56:27] <yoniDeBest>	We can't use transclusion as each line in the date articles goes into a differnt yar article
[23:59:10] <CIA-41>	03siebrand * r29936 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (34 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-01-19 0:45 CET)