[00:02:13] <LG|Devil>	where is the universal page header file?
[00:02:22] <LG|Devil>	i want to add my site header to it and make it look integrated
[00:02:23] <Skizzerz>	hmm?
[00:02:35] <LG|Devil>	using monobook
[00:03:03] <Skizzerz>	sorry, but I'm drawing a complete blank right now... what type of header?
[00:03:13] <LG|Devil>	can probably use the user, my talk, preferences, thing? i want to put it above that
[00:03:18] <LG|Devil>	graphical header
[00:03:28] <Skizzerz>	ah
[00:03:57] <Skizzerz>	you probably have to edit the /includes/MonoBook.php file to get anything up there
[00:04:27] <Charitwo>	hi OverlordQ 
[00:23:33] <LG|Devil>	how do i change links in the toolbox?
[00:23:47] <LG|Devil>	i went to MediaWiki:Toolbox and it's not showing up like with the sidebar
[00:27:31] <Skizzerz>	LG|Devil: the toolbox is defined solely in the PHP file for the skin, so you'd have to edit that
[00:27:53] <Skizzerz>	although you can use javascript to add elements to it on a per-page basis
[00:33:13] <Duesentrieb>	LG|Devil: the toolbox is automatic. it's contents depend on the page you are on, in some cases. and other stuff
[00:55:05] <MinuteElectron>	Duesentrieb: I'm not sure what to put on the toolserver new accounts request page, it seams heavily oriented at users who want access to help with Wikimedia wikis - as apposed to MediaWiki.
[00:56:30] <flyingparchment>	MinuteElectron: what do you want an account for?
[00:57:54] <MinuteElectron>	A MediaWiki extensions repository that will be accessed via a integrated extension manager for one-click installation, upgrade and deinstallation of extensions. I don't have the resources to host one on my own.
[00:59:06] <flyingparchment>	that seems fine, just write that on the page
[00:59:18] <MinuteElectron>	ok, thanks
[00:59:30] <Duesentrieb>	MinuteElectron: see, you already got approval from two of three toolserver roots :)
[00:59:45] <Duesentrieb>	(the third being the one who grants accounts...)
[00:59:47] <MinuteElectron>	:p
[01:00:31] <Duesentrieb>	MinuteElectron: DaB only does account creation every coupls of weeks though. don't be too impatient (but prod him if need be)
[01:00:42] *flyingparchment 	is doing most of the account creation recently though
[01:00:47] <flyingparchment>	(dab does the approvals)
[01:02:02] <Duesentrieb>	oh you do? didn't know that
[01:08:23] <hippietrail>	mediawiki seems to convert some spaces to non breaking spaces for no good reason
[01:08:49] <TimStarling>	the french space thing
[01:08:51] <TimStarling>	it's terrible
[01:09:32] <hippietrail>	ah it  could be. it's in the context of colons that i've spotted it. thought it was a firefox perversion
[01:10:00] <hippietrail>	that should be in a locale or language specific layer
[01:10:12] <TimStarling>	spaces before colons are converted to non-breaking space, even if they're in the middle of an HTML attribute
[01:11:03] <TimStarling>	but you're worried about conversion in ordinary text, right?
[01:11:10] <hippietrail>	is it really better to have these unexpected artefacts than to not have the conversion for french?
[01:11:14] <MinuteElectron>	Duesentrieb: There we go. Thanks for the advice, hopefully I'll be able to take this somewhere. :)
[01:11:34] <hippietrail>	yes i'm doing lexical analysis on text nodes and expected what i put in to be what came out
[01:13:01] <hippietrail>	it sounds like something that would be better converted to entities at input time for users or wikis with a french language setting
[01:13:57] <TimStarling>	well, it's not like it's the only kind of text conversion
[01:14:28] <TimStarling>	why is it such a big problem?
[01:15:17] <hippietrail>	it was a problem finding why my nice lexer didn't work. wasted all last night on it. breaks the principle of least surprise or whatever it's called
[01:15:59] <MinuteElectron>	Goodnight.
[01:16:02] <TimStarling>	well, the least surprising course of action probably depends whether you're french or not
[01:16:24] <TimStarling>	what about ISBN/RFC, or dynamic dates? won't they screw you up too?
[01:16:46] <hippietrail>	french doesn't actually use regular non breaking spaces near puncutation anyway, it uses non breaking half spaces
[01:17:04] <TimStarling>	what about any point where your parser is not identical to our parser?
[01:17:27] <hippietrail>	i'm only lexing and parsing wiktionary which has structured text rather than prose
[01:18:56] <hippietrail>	i'm trying to parse that structure into javascript objects which can be used by other parts of the system. a kind of data mining or annotation i suppose
[01:20:58] <hippietrail>	in a wiktionary translation table you will have things like
[01:21:00] <hippietrail>	*Spanish: [[comer]]
[01:21:01] <hippietrail>	the colon is more structural than prose punctuation
[01:21:47] <TimStarling>	that example wouldn't be affected
[01:21:59] <TimStarling>	there's no space before the colon
[01:22:32] <hippietrail>	yes it's when i try to parse variants where some editors do put a space before the colon that i struck this problem
[01:23:04] <hippietrail>	a good parser should be tolerant of its input and strict with its output
[01:28:44] <TimStarling>	yes it should
[01:29:26] <TimStarling>	but maybe you'll forgive me for thinking that the tolerance of your own parser is your own problem
[01:29:49] <TimStarling>	you seem to just be talking about how annoyed you are that some shortcut you're taking didn't work out for you
[01:29:54] <TimStarling>	and you want to take it out on mediawiki
[01:30:25] <hippietrail>	no i'm happy i got my answer and got it fixed. it was a huge surprise why it was happening
[01:30:33] <TimStarling>	if you want to have a discussion about wikitext, then fine
[01:31:12] <TimStarling>	but I don't want to hear about failed attempts to write your own parser for it
[01:31:56] <hippietrail>	i'm very much in favour of language specific support for characters missing from keyboards etc. the same could be done for hyphens vs dashes, curved apostrohes, hebrew maqaf, hawaiian okina, etc
[01:32:24] <TimStarling>	but you're not in favour of this particular feature because it's pissing you off
[01:33:08] <hippietrail>	i'm not pissed off now. but i was wondering if it was overarching enough to be considered a bug
[01:35:34] <TimStarling>	there are some obvious advantages to having language-independent features, such as the existence of multilingual wikis
[01:36:35] <TimStarling>	so if it reasonably can be supported in a general way, I'd prefer that it is
[01:38:44] <TimStarling>	it's a particularly bad implementation at the moment, because it's not sensitive to context at all
[01:40:30] <hippietrail>	do you think there should be a low priority bug report? i'm sure i'm not the first one to be surprise and i'm having trouble finding info about it on google. a context-sensitive implementation could tackle similar issues that this one can't
[01:41:02] <TimStarling>	I'm not sure the particular example you're talking about should change
[01:41:23] <TimStarling>	the question as far as I'm concerned is: does the user expect the software to insert a line break before the colon?
[01:42:06] <TimStarling>	not: does a developer expect the software to take extraordinary measures to avoid a line break?
[01:43:28] <hippietrail>	i'm wondering more if there are other use cases besides mine where people could be surprised
[01:47:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support collation by a certain locale ( sorting order of characters) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164  (10octahedron80)
[01:47:34] <Skizzerz>	hi brion :)
[01:48:20] <brion>	evening
[01:48:52] <hippietrail>	here's an interesting side effect: if you have two or more spaces before a colon the browser will display it as 2 spaces, two or more spaces after a colon will only be displayed as a single space
[01:49:05] <TimStarling>	brion: we're just talking about french spaces
[01:49:16] <hippietrail>	might be interesting to those working on the wikitext grammar/spec
[01:49:31] <brion>	ah, zee frennnnnch espacessss
[01:49:33] <Skizzerz>	brion: I sent you an email regarding this, but would you please set me up for SVN commit access?
[01:49:52] <brion>	Skizzerz: i'll take a peek
[01:49:58] <Skizzerz>	awesome :)
[01:49:59] <Skizzerz>	thanks
[01:51:01] <brion>	lowercase 'skizzerz' ok?
[01:51:39] <Skizzerz>	sure :)
[01:51:43] <hippietrail>	since we implemented them, why didn't we go all the way and implement them as half spaces?
[01:52:29] <flyingparchment>	personally, i think wrapping the french quotes and colon correctly is the responsibility of the user-agent, not mediawiki
[01:52:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support collation by a certain locale ( sorting order of characters) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164  (10octahedron80)
[01:52:45] <TimStarling>	I thought there was some problem with the spaces in the 200x range in IE, but I'm not seeing it now
[01:52:45] <flyingparchment>	but i guess few user agents actually do it properly, or the feature wouldn't exist
[01:52:47] <TimStarling>	maybe it's fixed
[01:52:56] <TimStarling>	flyingparchment: user agents are quite stupid
[01:53:30] <TimStarling>	like formatting <em> in chinese text by skewing the already very dense characters to the point of unreadability
[01:54:01] <hippietrail>	surprisingly when i cut and past such text from firefox into another application all the spaces are regular x20 again
[01:54:13] <TimStarling>	yeah, that's firefox's fault
[01:54:18] <flyingparchment>	yeah, i've seen some chinese text where i'm surprised anyone could read it... i guess chinese users set a large font size ;)
[01:54:31] <TimStarling>	we had trouble with that once upon a time, when people were allowed to use non-breaking space in usernames
[01:54:39] <TimStarling>	you couldn't copy and paste them to block them
[01:54:57] <Skizzerz>	hi Charitwo :)
[01:56:09] <hippietrail>	problem is <em> could contain a mix of characters, should one cjk char change the rendering of the whole span? or should different parts of a single span render differently depending on their character range?
[01:56:29] <brion>	Skizzerz: can you send your key in the one-line format that openssh likes?
[01:56:36] <brion>	ssh-keygen isn't being friendly to me with converting today
[01:56:37] <TimStarling>	the latter
[01:56:40] <Charitwo>	1 ping is enough :P
[01:56:47] <TimStarling>	CJK fonts should never be skewed
[01:56:49] <Skizzerz>	sure
[01:57:09] <TimStarling>	italics is just how they write things in italy
[01:58:09] <TimStarling>	it's a poor cultural assumption to assume that's how they do it in beijing as well
[01:58:10] <hippietrail>	i wanted to make some javascript for wiktionary that put spans with CSS classes around any cjk text so we could style them without the editors having to use templates, but javascript has no concept of character ranges - not even ec4
[01:58:42] <Skizzerz>	brion: er, how would I go about doing that? just remove all the linebreaks?
[01:58:57] <flyingparchment>	Skizzerz: ssh-keygen -i -f <filename>  (if you have openssh)
[01:59:17] <hippietrail>	japanese can put a dot alongside each character for emphasis but i've never heard of that being implemented in html
[01:59:27] <flyingparchment>	otherwise your ssh client might have an option to export in openssh format
[02:00:06] <brion>	ah, there we go
[02:00:14] <TimStarling>	I haven't seen that
[02:00:17] <brion>	without the -f it bitched and moaned, despite apparently asking me for the input filename
[02:00:25] <brion>	Skizzerz: ok i got it :D
[02:00:36] <Skizzerz>	ok, thanks
[02:00:46] <TimStarling>	in japan of course they have lots of stylised fonts that are actually readable, that can be used for emphasis
[02:00:48] *Skizzerz 	uses PuTTY, didn't see an export option there...
[02:01:00] <TimStarling>	and they can just shift the whole thing from hiragana to katakana
[02:01:08] <Skizzerz>	owait, there it is >_>
[02:01:11] *Skizzerz 	just can't read
[02:01:17] <TimStarling>	strangely enough there's no way to do that transformation in CSS :)
[02:01:20] <hippietrail>	the only chinese novel i have handy doesn't translate the italics from the english. can't find any bold...
[02:01:50] <brion>	Skizzerz: ok, added
[02:01:51] <brion>	enjoy :D
[02:01:57] <Skizzerz>	ok, thanks :)
[02:02:21] <hippietrail>	kana conversion requires a dictionary and morphological analysis )-:
[02:03:50] <TimStarling>	well, conversion between kanji and a phonetic alphabet of some kind does
[02:04:11] <TimStarling>	but katakana and hiragana are both phonetic, and have a simple one-to-one mapping
[02:04:11] <danopia>	*PONG
TimStarling
[02:04:50] <TimStarling>	many of the katakana are just angular forms of the corresponding hiragana
[02:05:53] <TimStarling>	here are the spaces 2000-2000d: http://noc.wikimedia.org/~tstarling/spaces.html
[02:05:57] <TimStarling>	200d
[02:06:36] <Skizzerz>	brion: uh, I'm being prompted for a password...
[02:06:50] <TimStarling>	the 200c and 200d look like a vertical line to me
[02:07:03] <brion>	Skizzerz: make sure you're using the right username (it's case-sensitive!)
[02:07:13] <Skizzerz>	it's all lowercase, right?
[02:07:18] <TimStarling>	but the rest are OK
[02:10:27] <TimStarling>	mmm, wikipedia has a long article called [[French spacing]]
[02:10:59] <Skizzerz>	brion: still not working...
[02:12:58] <Skizzerz>	I've updated the public key file with the openssh one, if that's what the problem was
[02:15:03] <CIA-42>	03dale * r30816 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (9 files in 4 dirs): interface and scraper enhancements
[02:17:04] <Skizzerz>	brion: nvm, it was a problem on my end I guess
[02:17:08] *Skizzerz 	fixed it :)
[02:18:27] <UUggghhh>	What's it called when there's a hard link instead of a link with a question mark in it?
[02:18:27] <siebrand>	cheers, Skizzerz.
[02:18:54] <UUggghhh>	i.e. just domain.com/ instead of domain.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
[02:19:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support collation by a certain locale ( sorting order of characters) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164  (10octahedron80)
[02:19:27] <hippietrail>	wow that spacing article contains much more convoluted stuff than i ever would've expected
[02:19:31] <AaronJ>	geez..
[02:20:09] <TimStarling>	the table under "French spacing rules and English spacing rules" is enlightening
[02:23:33] *Skizzerz 	"tests" this out by adding his thingy to userinfo...
[02:24:34] <CIA-42>	03skizzerz * r30817 10/USERINFO/skizzerz: adding myself to USERINFO
[02:24:40] <Skizzerz>	w00t :)
[02:25:11] <hippietrail>	a much better article all round than i had expected
[02:26:29] <TimStarling>	does it make you want to add em spaces after the ends of sentences?
[02:26:49] <jlerner>	is there a way to test if a named argument was even passed into a template at all?
[02:27:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support collation by a certain locale ( sorting order of characters) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164  (10octahedron80)
[02:29:53] <hippietrail>	it makes me think that everybody is wrong and everybody is right in arguments about spacing (-:
[02:32:20] <TimStarling>	maybe we can have a little javascript slider bar at the top of the page that lets you adjust the space between words, and around punctuation
[02:34:49] <amidaniel>	Sounds like a good plan
[02:35:42] <hippietrail>	(-:
[02:36:26] <hippietrail>	css will probably support such concepts someday in the future i suppose
[02:38:52] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30818 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/ (FlaggedRevs.php FlaggedRevsPage.i18n.php flaggedrevs.css): Various fixes
[02:55:11] <TimStarling>	there's a character called narrow no-break space, NNBSP
[02:55:34] <TimStarling>	that's the only possible replacement for the NBSP in question, the other spaces are breaking
[02:55:41] <TimStarling>	and avoiding breaking is the whole point
[02:58:02] <Splarka>	Mongolian...
[02:58:13] <TimStarling>	ehhhh, but it's a box in IE
[02:58:15] <TimStarling>	bugger
[02:58:56] *Splarka 	had it in his list of annoying invisible (in Mozilla) unicode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Splarka/alpha
[02:59:09] <CIA-42>	03siebrand * r30819 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/languages/MV_Messages.php: fix typo
[03:05:37] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30820 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Linker.php: If a link is made to an old version of an image that doesn't exists, but a current version exists, blue link it.
[03:27:20] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30821 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Linker.php: Tweak r30820. Pass $time variable further in. This avoids extra wfFindFile() calls if we were fetching the current revision.
[03:34:20] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30822 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: Fix silly typo
[03:36:03] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30823 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: And again...
[03:37:39] <Splarka>	(CommitOfAll)
[03:42:19] <aBSDaemon>	Anyone here using single sign-on between MediaWiki 1.11.1 and vBulletin?
[05:45:53] <marvus>	hello
[05:46:37] <marvus>	maybe i'm blind, but where is the $wgOut variable initialised ?
[05:47:12] <marvus>	i see a "new OutputPage" only in SpecialPages.php
[05:48:18] <TimStarling>	Setup.php
[05:48:48] <TimStarling>	$wgOut = new StubObject( 'wgOut', 'OutputPage' );
[05:51:24] <marvus>	ah yes, thanks
[06:02:30] <marvus>	imho it's quite confusing with the wiki setup script (which create the db tables and LocalSettings.php), maybe Initialisations.php should be less confusing name ?
[06:04:22] <TimStarling>	maybe Init.php, to avoid the US-UK spelling conflict
[06:04:28] <TimStarling>	but it's still a synonym
[06:04:40] <TimStarling>	setup, initialisation, configuration -- all synonyms
[06:05:20] <TimStarling>	the fact that it's in the includes directory goes some way towards disambiguation
[06:05:32] <TimStarling>	it sets up the things that are in that directory
[06:47:55] <Aaron13100>	Whenever I try to use short URLs by changing .htaccess, the layout of pages is messed up - it looks like I lose the default skin. Any ideas?
[07:02:28] <CIA-42>	03aaron * r30824 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.php: Don't include JS/CSS several times. Not sure how this gets called twice though...
[07:09:40] <CIA-42>	03nikerabbit * r30825 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevsPage.i18n.php: * -bom
[08:18:46] <rasa>	So I upgraded from 1.9.3, to http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.11/mediawiki-1.11.1.tar.gz, 1.9.3 has a .htaccess, 1.11 doesn't. So the site is 404, and apache's log says "File does not exist: /home/ross/www/vinyasakrama.com/Main_Page"
[08:18:54] <rasa>	any clues to what i did wrong?
[08:22:52] <rasa>	the 1.11.0 tarball is missing the .htaccess file as well.
[08:23:06] <rasa>	i must be missing something completely obvious
[08:23:14] <MZMcBride>	the .htaccess files don't include rewrite rules
[08:23:22] <rasa>	it did in 1.9.3
[08:23:39] <MZMcBride>	copy the rewrite rules to the new .htaccess file
[08:23:51] <rasa>	so how does Main_Page map to index.php in 1.11.x?
[08:24:08] <rasa>	ok, but that's not mentioned anywhere in the docs (or is it?)
[08:24:21] <MZMcBride>	 /index.php/Main_Page i think...
[08:24:53] <rasa>	great, i'll just ask everyone on the Internet to update their links :)
[08:25:23] <MZMcBride>	i don't think 1.9.3 came with rewrite rules
[08:25:31] <MZMcBride>	but i'm too tired to think
[08:27:22] <rasa>	could be I hacked that file myself, too tired to remember, thx 4 assistance!!!
[08:29:52] <rasa>	protect/unprotect have stopped working:
[08:30:01] <rasa>	Internal error: This action cannot be performed on this page.
[08:30:12] <rasa>	no errors in apache's log
[08:31:29] <rasa>	went back to 1.9.3, and protect/unprotect work fine
[08:33:14] <MinuteElectron>	rasa: No version ever came with rewrite rules.
[08:33:36] <MinuteElectron>	If you were lucky your server used an API that support /index.php/Main_Page style links.
[08:34:10] <MinuteElectron>	To get back to your linking system you need to read the manual and create a new .htaccess file (or add the new rewrite rules to your own).
[08:34:14] <MinuteElectron>	!shorturls | rasa 
[08:34:14] --mwbot--	rasa: To create simple URLs (such as the /wiki/PAGENAME style URLs on Wikimedia sites), follow the instructions at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL>. There are instructions for most different webserver setups. If you have problems getting the rewrite rules to work, see !rewriteproblem
[08:47:42] <CIA-42>	03siebrand * r30826 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: Remove a leading space in 'uctop'
[08:57:32] <CIA-42>	03huji * r30827 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/findhooks.php: (log message trimmed)
[08:57:32] <CIA-42>	Allows findhooks to find these hooks:
[08:57:32] <CIA-42>	* FileUpload
[08:57:32] <CIA-42>	* LanguageGetMagic
[08:57:32] <CIA-42>	* LanguageGetSpecialPageAliases
[08:57:33] <CIA-42>	* MonoBookTemplateToolboxEnd
[08:57:35] <CIA-42>	Regardless, these hooks are still not found (although they are in use by extensions):
[09:01:08] <Hojjat>	TimStarling: have a second?
[09:03:56] <ialex>	Hojjat: for r30827 i had a bug at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12301 to find all missing bugs :)
[09:04:20] <Hojjat>	ialex: hi! I'll take a look in a sec
[09:05:34] <Hojjat>	the idea is the same, you just expanded it more!
[09:06:09] <Hojjat>	ialex: why didn't it get applied?
[09:06:27] <ialex>	Hojjat: dunno, nobody saw that bug :D
[09:06:34] <Hojjat>	including me!
[09:06:46] <ialex>	:)
[09:06:48] <Hojjat>	Why don't you apply it right now?
[09:06:52] <Hojjat>	I think it is fine.
[09:07:00] <ialex>	i don't have commit access :)
[09:07:07] <Hojjat>	oh, really?
[09:07:17] <ialex>	:(
[09:07:27] <Hojjat>	Then why don't you recreate the patch based on the latest version and let me commit it for you?
[09:07:40] <Hojjat>	while I'm doing some other htings
[09:08:33] <ialex>	'kay
[09:09:23] <CIA-42>	03huji * r30828 10/trunk/phase3/images/: Adding 'deleted' folder to the subversion ignore list
[09:14:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Allow maintenance/findhooks. php to search hooks in multiple directories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12301  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[09:16:09] <Hojjat>	I'm on it
[09:16:23] <ialex>	thanks :)
[09:19:29] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[09:19:41] <ialex>	hi Nikerabbit
[09:20:23] <Hojjat>	Hi Nikerabbit
[09:25:31] <fishsponge>	hey people - how can i get the Sitenotice to not appear to google as the first actual content on each page? it's ruining my google listings: http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=site%3Ahobbsknowledgebase.co.uk&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
[09:27:02] <Nikerabbit>	maybe dismissable sitenotice? not sure though
[09:27:25] <Splarka>	heh
[09:27:39] <Splarka>	AaronSchulz has ruined test.wikipedia in the same way: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atest.wikipedia.org&btnG=Google+Search
[09:27:50] <Hojjat>	wow!
[09:28:07] <fishsponge>	Nikerabbit: what's a dismissable sitenotice?
[09:28:24] <Duesentrieb>	Nikerabbit: isn't that pure js/Css trickery?
[09:28:37] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DismissableSiteNotice
[09:28:52] <Hojjat>	! DismissableSiteNotice
[09:29:00] <Hojjat>	!DismissableSiteNotice
[09:29:00] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "dismissablesitenotice".
[09:29:04] <Hojjat>	pity!
[09:29:07] <fishsponge>	lol
[09:29:18] <Duesentrieb>	Hojjat: add it
[09:29:21] *Splarka 	notes it is often *more* work to try to use the mwbot
[09:29:25] <fishsponge>	why isn't this built in by default? lol, surely a sitenotice appearing as the first googleable content is ridiculous! lol
[09:29:28] <Hojjat>	Duesentrieb: I'm doing this
[09:29:53] <Splarka>	the dismissable sitenotice is... hmm... not a good thing IMHO
[09:29:59] <Splarka>	it never shows for non-js users, for example
[09:30:12] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: huh? it never does? really?
[09:30:16] <Hojjat>	!DismissableSiteNotice is DismissableSiteNotice is an extension which lets users hide SiteNoticess. For more information see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DismissableSiteNotice>
[09:30:16] --mwbot--	Successfully added keyword: dismissablesitenotice
[09:30:18] <Duesentrieb>	that would be odd.
[09:30:30] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: why does google see it, then?
[09:30:33] <fishsponge>	well that's the thing - i want it to be visible to all, including Google's cache of pages, but i don't want it as the first content in the listings! lol
[09:30:35] <Hojjat>	!dismissablesitenotice | Duesentrieb
[09:30:35] --mwbot--	Duesentrieb: DismissableSiteNotice is an extension which lets users hide SiteNoticess. For more information see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DismissableSiteNotice>
[09:30:39] <Hojjat>	:D
[09:30:42] <Splarka>	Duesentrieb: does it?
[09:30:53] <Splarka>	I don't think it does....
[09:31:07] <Splarka>	it sees AaronSchulz's FlaggedRevs page headers... and not the sitenotice, on test.wp
[09:32:25] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: hm... maybe you are right. i would have though non-js users can't dismiss it.
[09:32:41] <Splarka>	for non-js users it simply doesn't show
[09:32:46] <Duesentrieb>	anyway - why is it done by js at all? it should be possible without
[09:32:47] <Splarka>	since it is generated by js
[09:32:51] *Splarka 	shrugs
[09:32:53] <Splarka>	ask brion
[09:32:56] <Duesentrieb>	:P
[09:32:59] <Splarka>	I'd have done it differently
[09:33:08] <fishsponge>	for me, that is not an option, unfortunately - i want all users to see the Sitenotice, but i don't want it as the first googleable content, if you know what i mean...
[09:33:23] <Splarka>	more importantly, it drops a crapload of JS directly into the page source, whyyyyyy...
[09:33:25] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: hack the skin.
[09:33:26] <fishsponge>	is there a CSS trick that can take it away from being whatever it is and turn it into something Google doesn't care about?
[09:33:40] <Splarka>	I'd have created a div that was visible, and then had some javascript make it invisible
[09:33:45] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: look where it inserts the citenotice, and at that point, check against a list of user agents to hide it for.
[09:33:47] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: i would hack the skin, but i don't know what to hack! i don't know enough about CSS to know what to change anything to
[09:33:52] <Splarka>	and then have more javascript make it visible if the cookie wasn't set, and generate a [hide] tab
[09:34:08] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: though... hm... that would play bad with caching. but if you don't use squids of filecache, you should be ok.
[09:34:10] <Splarka>	(and only the hide tab operating on document load, so it would be transparent)
[09:34:11] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: is there no CSS class that google ignores?
[09:34:23] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: you wouldn't hack css. you'd hack the php paert of the skin
[09:34:51] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: a special not-for-google class? would be usefull. no idea if it exists. how about asking google?
[09:34:56] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: i know what you are suggesting, but on a different topic (almost) can CSS not be used to simply make google ignore it somehow?
[09:35:12] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: hehe, #google exists
[09:35:23] <fishsponge>	i.e. <H1> headings can be made small so Google treats them as H1, but really they're just text etc... can the opposite be done? can text be ignored?
[09:35:43] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: i have no idea in how foar google interprets css. they do to some extend, i'm sure, to ignore hidden keyword spam
[09:36:05] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: ask google experts, not mediawiki experts...
[09:36:50] <Splarka>	at the very least, brion could have stuck in a <noscript> copy of the sitenotice
[09:37:00] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: #web may be a good place too. or maybe #php - off topic there, but people might know anyway
[09:37:08] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: indeed
[09:37:51] <CIA-42>	03huji * r30829 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES maintenance/findhooks.php): (bug 12301) Allow maintenance/findhooks.php to search hooks in multiple directories. Applying the patch created by Alexandre Emsenhuber (ialex)
[09:38:06] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: how does Google ignore the Sidebar though? that comes before the rest of the content in the HTML, but Google ignores it...
[09:38:17] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Allow maintenance/findhooks. php to search hooks in multiple directories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12301  +comment (10huji.huji)
[09:38:38] <fishsponge>	How come my page content snippets don't read "navigation Main Page Contents Featured Content Current events Random article..."
[09:38:47] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: maybe because it's short bits of text in a <ul>? i have no glue, they probably have a lot of complex and secret heuristics to determin what is "real" content
[09:39:00] <Duesentrieb>	err, clue :P
[09:39:20] <Duesentrieb>	my fingers really can't spell. they have their own idea about hwo to write words
[09:39:28] <Splarka>	erm
[09:39:36] <Splarka>	all the sidebar/portlets come after the content
[09:39:38] <Splarka>	view the page source
[09:41:12] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: hm... interesting.... not any more wqhen using the modern skin...
[09:41:15] <Duesentrieb>	might be a problem#
[09:41:23] <Splarka>	so blame flyingparchment ^_^
[09:41:33] <fishsponge>	how can the navigation bar come after the content in the HTML, but it appears before it on the page???
[09:41:38] <Splarka>	<body> > #globalWrapper > #column-content > #content > #top + #sitenotice + .firstHeading + bodyContent > [text]
[09:41:45] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: css magic
[09:41:46] <Splarka>	fishsponge: css magic
[09:41:50] <Duesentrieb>	hehe :)
[09:42:01] <Hojjat>	Why does everyone talk abou River when it comes to Modern skin?
[09:42:11] <Duesentrieb>	Hojjat: because river wrote it?
[09:42:18] <fishsponge>	ok, so can i use that same css magic for the sitenotice?
[09:42:24] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo?useskin=myskin  <-- monobook without CSS
[09:42:26] <Hojjat>	okay, but we are in an "SVN" world and a "WIKI" felling!
[09:42:33] <Hojjat>	anyone can upgrade a skin, can't them?
[09:42:41] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: in theory, yes. you need to mess with the skin quite a bit.
[09:42:41] <Splarka>	blame is retroactive
[09:42:45] <Duesentrieb>	it ain't easy, or pretty
[09:42:46] <Hojjat>	Modern skin doesn't belong to River, and I think he agrees with me here
[09:42:49] <Splarka>	Hojjat: we could blame you instead for not fixing it
[09:42:58] <Duesentrieb>	and has to be done twice (once for real browsers, and once for msie=)
[09:43:04] <Hojjat>	Splarka: do it, I'll be happy :)
[09:43:15] *Splarka 	has no commit access (by design)
[09:43:19] <Hojjat>	Splarka: indeed, I'm planning for some changes in some skins
[09:43:20] <Duesentrieb>	Hojjat: the question was not who *ownse* it, but who is to *vlame* :)
[09:43:22] <Duesentrieb>	*blame
[09:43:36] <fishsponge>	Splarka: Monobook without the CSS looks so unbelievably different - i had no idea CSS could actually position things on a page, i knew it was all about formatting, but i didn't know it had that much control!
[09:43:38] <Splarka>	if I did, I'd add a <div id="content"> to modern and then get my access removed
[09:43:41] <Hojjat>	Duesentrieb: get a new set of fingers!
[09:43:54] <Hojjat>	Duesentrieb: I know some original 20-finger packs. They'll upgrade your feet as well!
[09:43:57] *Splarka 	tries to remember what we wuz talking bout
[09:44:04] <Splarka>	does google index ignore <h1> ?
[09:44:10] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: it's actually pretty nasty to do this kind of thing. especially to make it work with msie
[09:44:15] <Hojjat>	Splarka: I don't think so
[09:44:23] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: that would be silly, wouldn't it?
[09:44:41] <Splarka>	well, it seems to sometimes
[09:44:43] <Splarka>	http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aen.wikipedia.org&btnG=Google+Search
[09:44:48] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: OK, so the only way to stop my Sitenotice trashing my cached pages in Google is to either use the Dismissable:Sitenotice extension, or to hack with the CSS a *lot*, right?
[09:45:01] <Splarka>	fishsponge: there may be other ways
[09:45:04] <fishsponge>	that does make the Sitenotice feature kinda useless, unfortunately! lol
[09:45:07] <Splarka>	keywords or certain tags that google ignores
[09:45:24] <Splarka>	but you'd have to find out what, first. when you do, come back here for how
[09:45:38] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: hack the skins *php* and css a lot, yes. or find out if google lets you explicitly mark something as "ignore this". then you would only need to hack a little bit. or possibly nto at all.
[09:45:57] <Splarka>	because as is, it is shooting fish in the dark right now
[09:46:14] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: the sitenotice is intended for temporary stuff. also note that google will show other e3xcerpts from the pages when you actually search for terms, instead of listing pages.
[09:46:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) The way to search blocked usernames in block log should be clearer - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1697  +comment (10huji.huji)
[09:46:46] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: compare http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atest.wikipedia.org&btnG=Google+Search and http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=site%3Atest.wikipedia.org+foo&btnG=Suche&lr=
[09:47:42] <Splarka>	you could make the sitenotice an image
[09:47:43] <Duesentrieb>	fishsponge: so, whatÄ's on top really isn't so important
[09:47:48] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: ugh!
[09:48:01] *Splarka 	twists the knife in Duesentrieb a bit
[09:48:10] <fishsponge>	Duesentrieb: that's true... i'd still like it "fixed" though, of course :-)
[09:48:40] <Splarka>	yahoo has <div class="robots-nocontent"> but google doesn't honor it yet
[09:51:33] <MrCheerful>	Morning.
[09:52:14] <MrCheerful>	quick question, I am a new bureaucart/sysop
[09:52:44] <MrCheerful>	I have a user who's forgotten the password, but the email address has changed since it was setup.
[09:52:48] <MrCheerful>	can I reset it?
[09:52:54] <Duesentrieb>	MrCheerful: no.
[09:53:07] <MrCheerful>	Oh.
[09:53:25] <Duesentrieb>	there is no way to reset passwords or email addresses, short of manipulating the database by hand (one wmf projects that is).
[09:53:32] <Splarka>	nice: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Astarwars.wikia.com&btnG=Google+Search
[09:53:38] <Splarka>	here is a skin with the page text NOT at the top
[09:53:49] <Splarka>	flyingparchment: modern skin might piss off google, fyi
[09:53:53] <MrCheerful>	hmm, ok, I will have to think of something else.
[09:54:30] <MrCheerful>	wmf?
[09:54:36] <Duesentrieb>	MrCheerful: if there is a very VERY good reason that user MUST have his account back, then you can ask on #wikimedia-tech and hope that someone is ready to do it. but it would require some way to verify that the user is actually who he claims he ist (usually via a cross-linked account on another wmf wikki)
[09:54:38] <Splarka>	wikimedia foundation
[09:54:48] <Splarka>	is your wiki a wikimedia wiki?
[09:54:51] <Duesentrieb>	MrCheerful: "WikimediaFoundation"
[09:55:00] <MrCheerful>	private wiki
[09:55:16] <Duesentrieb>	MrCheerful: there's an extension you can install that lets you reset passwords.
[09:55:28] <MrCheerful>	ohh, that could be useful.
[09:55:55] <Duesentrieb>	MrCheerful: or talk to someone who can change stuff in the db. but again, check carfully that you are not helping someone to hijack the account.
[09:56:09] <MrCheerful>	I understand.
[09:56:40] <Splarka>	 maintenance/changePassword.php
[09:56:53] <Duesentrieb>	yes, that too.
[09:57:12] <Duesentrieb>	though it's generally nicer to fix the mail address and let the user sort out the pw stuff
[09:57:23] <Duesentrieb>	that way aou also have a vaild mail address on record :)
[10:05:33] <jons>	How do I delete a user?
[10:06:10] <Duesentrieb>	jons: you don't
[10:06:14] <Duesentrieb>	!deleteuser | jons
[10:06:14] --mwbot--	jons: Deleting users is very messy and not recommended, because this breaks referential integrity in the database (they appear in many different tables like users, edit histories, recentchanges, preferences, etc). A safe solution is to block the users, and possibly rename them with <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Renameuser>.  You can also try <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:User_Merge_and_Delete>
[10:06:38] <Splarka>	and if your wiki has a copyleft license, it might be illegal
[10:06:48] <jons>	ok. thanks.
[10:10:58] <_wooz>	lo
[10:11:27] <jons>	How about editing a users first/lastname, email etc?
[10:12:30] <Splarka>	you could use maintenance/changePassword.php to usurp the account, log in as them, and edit the prefs... 
[10:12:32] <Duesentrieb>	jons: nope.
[10:12:48] <Duesentrieb>	jons: why would you ever want to do that? it's up to the user.
[10:13:04] <Splarka>	Dues: if he was gonna delete them before....
[10:13:05] <Duesentrieb>	jons: actually, the wiki doesn't offer *anyone* a way to even see the users's mail address
[10:13:24] <jons>	Duesentrieb: Might happen. We are going to use MediaWiki for our intranet.
[10:13:38] <Duesentrieb>	jons: might happen why?
[10:13:51] <Snowolf>	Duesentrieb: lookup user extension should user's personal data
[10:13:56] <Duesentrieb>	jons: consider using LDAP based authentication
[10:14:06] <Duesentrieb>	(does it also take the mail address from ldap?... no idea)
[10:14:15] <Snowolf>	*should = shows
[10:14:41] <Duesentrieb>	Snowolf: including email? really? it shouldn't.
[10:14:49] <jons>	Duesentrieb: I dont have an answer to when it could happen.. im just guessing what the bosses would want to do.
[10:14:50] <Duesentrieb>	not without checkuser permission
[10:15:13] <Duesentrieb>	jons: again, for an intranet scenario, ldap seems to way to go
[10:15:14] <Splarka>	Duesentrieb: on wikia Lookupuser (as it is called) is only given to paid staff
[10:15:16] <Splarka>	who have checkuser anyway
[10:15:36] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: whatever :)
[10:15:51] <Duesentrieb>	!ldap | jons
[10:15:51] --mwbot--	jons: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LDAP_Authentication
[10:16:01] <Splarka>	jons: well, with changePassword.php you can usurp and do whatever you want to the prefs (that any user can do to themselves), as a backup
[10:16:51] <jons>	ok. no ldap avail. at our office. 
[10:17:38] <Snowolf>	It does, for user with the appropriate permission of course - No idea that it was implemented in Wikia :O It should (but I may be using an outdated version) the user's number, real name, email, registration date, user record last touched, date of email autentication as well as all the preferences
[10:17:41] <Duesentrieb>	jons: not ms active directory either?
[10:17:50] <Duesentrieb>	jons: how do you manager intranet user accounts at all?
[10:18:10] <Snowolf>	Duesentrieb: sorry for the delay, I was answering to your line about lookupuser
[10:18:16] <jons>	duesentrieb: nope..  everyone has a local account. no more no less.
[10:18:50] <Duesentrieb>	jons: ugh :)
[10:19:02] <Werdna>	Are there performance barriers to including a "There are # items in this category" note on category pages?
[10:19:04] <Splarka>	Snowolf: Tim wrote it for Wikia (I guess when Angela bugged him about it and he wrote it to make her stop?)
[10:19:23] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: yes.
[10:19:47] <Werdna>	Duesentrieb: we can't just "SELECT ...,count(*) FROM categorylinks,page"...
[10:19:48] <Werdna>	?
[10:19:59] <domas>	there are, yes
[10:20:02] <domas>	someone has to count
[10:20:11] <domas>	unless you maintain the counts in tables..
[10:20:28] <Werdna>	domas: what's wrong with that sort of query?
[10:20:29] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: sure. but that is expensive.
[10:20:32] <Werdna>	the coutning is expensive?
[10:20:45] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: you know, the "," bit...
[10:20:55] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: sure, itÄs just as expensive as listing them all.
[10:21:01] <Splarka>	democract: it's your vote that counts. feudalism: it's your count that votes. wiki: it's your count that counts, this isn't a vote.
[10:21:20] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: the join and where has to be fully evaluated. for all rows, instead of just 200.
[10:21:35] <Splarka>	s/ct/cy
[10:21:41] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: for a category with 1000 entries, no problem. at 100000 entries - problem.
[10:22:02] <domas>	well, SELECT ...,count(*) is invalid by itself
[10:22:07] <domas>	there's SELECT CALC_FOUND_ROWS ...
[10:22:17] <Werdna>	right, so why not maintain teh category count in memcached, purge it when we get a new entry to the category?
[10:22:29] <domas>	and recount each time?
[10:22:39] <domas>	memcached, teh solution for everything?
[10:22:40] <domas>	:(
[10:22:55] <Duesentrieb>	one thing that might be nice is a "small wiki" switch.
[10:23:09] <domas>	small wikis have big categories!
[10:23:14] <Duesentrieb>	set it to true to get a bunch of small features that are desabled because they don't scale well
[10:23:22] <Werdna>	When an article with theat cat in it is saved... is that too bad?
[10:23:23] <Splarka>	why not just hook it to wgMiserMode?
[10:23:25] <domas>	we have wgMiserMode
[10:23:29] <Splarka>	heh
[10:23:38] <domas>	Werdna: in theory you could maintain categorysizes table
[10:23:42] <Duesentrieb>	could even be automatic, triggered by site stats. though i guess it would be kind of odd when the wiki crosses the threshold... features would just vanish
[10:23:53] <jons>	Can I have different titles without editingen the MessegesXY.php files?
[10:23:54] <domas>	looots of features
[10:24:09] <Werdna>	domas: I'm trying to avoid icky schema changes, as well as icky database killing.
[10:24:09] <domas>	jons: edit mediawiki: namespace?
[10:24:17] <Duesentrieb>	domas: wgMiserMode is kind of the reverse of what i was thinking, i guess. is it even consistently used?
[10:24:27] <domas>	Duesentrieb: it is enabled ;-D
[10:24:34] <domas>	and I slap it here and there :)
[10:24:34] <Duesentrieb>	domas: per default?
[10:24:37] <domas>	no
[10:24:39] <domas>	on  wmf wikis
[10:25:10] <Duesentrieb>	hm... maybe it should be the default. anyway. i feelsy stuff like # of entries in category could be made available, subject to the miser switch
[10:25:31] <domas>	on the other hand
[10:25:39] <Duesentrieb>	maybe i could give page counts in categorytree too, based on that switch... it's an often requested feature
[10:25:40] <domas>	with brion's index scan all category entries are scanned anyway, mwahaha
[10:25:45] <domas>	I still have to fix that
[10:25:49] *domas 	slacks for more than a year
[10:25:50] <domas>	:(
[10:26:53] <domas>	enwiki has it fixed though 
[10:26:59] <domas>	enwiki has many schema issues fixed
[10:27:04] <Werdna>	well that's a start :P
[10:27:14] <domas>	no, it actually takes it away from your idea
[10:27:15] <domas>	:)
[10:27:39] <Werdna>	hehe
[10:27:42] <domas>	the problem with 'small wiki exclusion'
[10:27:50] <domas>	is that we have hundreds of small wikis
[10:27:54] <Werdna>	mmm
[10:27:55] <domas>	and those small exclusions add up 
[10:28:17] <domas>	so, per page-view small wiki ends up quite a few times more expensive to operate than enwiki
[10:28:20] <domas>	or actually, 10x
[10:28:23] <domas>	as enwiki is really in hot cache
[10:28:58] <Werdna>	domas: so we can't count on the run, I guess
[10:29:20] <Werdna>	so we need to store the count someplace.
[10:29:29] *Werdna 	rescues memcached.
[10:29:54] <domas>	here, an answer for you:
[10:29:54] <domas>	mysql> select count(*) from categorylinks where cl_to="Living_people";
[10:29:54] <domas>	+----------+
[10:29:54] <domas>	| count(*) |
[10:29:54] <domas>	+----------+
[10:29:55] <domas>	|   253285 |
[10:29:59] <domas>	+----------+
[10:30:00] <Splarka>	could cache it when Special:Mostlinkedcategories is updated
[10:30:01] <domas>	1 row in set (7.54 sec)
[10:30:16] <Splarka>	Domas: how about "Biography_articles_without_listas_parameter" ?
[10:30:30] <Werdna>	Splarka: hmm.. you're right, it doesn't have to be up to the minute
[10:31:05] <Splarka>	how about
[10:31:18] <domas>	Splarka: hah, 344k
[10:31:20] <Splarka>	if more than say, X items are found in a limited select count... say 1000 default...
[10:31:56] <Splarka>	instead of continuing the count, it will instead say: "There are approximately 344k articles in this category (as of Feb 9th 2008)"
[10:32:30] <domas>	nobody wants to maintain counts in tables :)
[10:32:31] <Splarka>	[[Category:Ideas of Splarka's with too many uses of the word "Say"]]
[10:32:48] <Werdna>	domas: yes, like edit_count and file count :)
[10:34:05] <domas>	like that, yes
[10:34:57] <Werdna>	well, I've seen the request bandied about quite a bit.. is there some way to accomodate it relatively painlessly, or should I say "Sorry, too hard"?
[10:35:27] <Splarka>	well, what is a sane limit? 10,000?
[10:35:35] <Splarka>	"There are 9517 pages in this category"
[10:35:40] <Splarka>	"There are more than 10,000 pages in this category"
[10:36:32] <domas>	mmmm
[10:36:34] <domas>	I have an evil plan
[10:36:39] <Splarka>	relatively painless, will work for most categories (all but the top 157 on enwp)
[10:36:42] <domas>	having 'statistics slaves'
[10:36:59] <Werdna>	domas: I hope you're joking :P
[10:37:04] <Splarka>	"Is that a collar and leash?" "No, it is a grounding strap"
[10:37:04] <domas>	well
[10:37:22] <domas>	the idea is to have those counts tables on 1-2 slaves only
[10:37:29] <domas>	and rebuild them constantly
[10:38:47] <domas>	cause now there're few problems with rebuilds - lacking some of capacity
[10:38:56] <domas>	and clogging replication bandwidth
[10:39:04] <domas>	Jens will love it
[10:39:12] <Werdna>	yeah
[10:39:21] <domas>	(he loves every time I make more specialized nodes)
[10:39:23] <Werdna>	well.. they don't have to be replicated constantly
[10:39:42] <domas>	then we could bump up counts for caches from 10k to 100k :)
[10:39:56] <Werdna>	you could do it an average of once per week/month or something
[10:39:56] <domas>	the problem - how to maintain 'system down' 
[10:40:05] <domas>	I want to update statistics daily/hourly
[10:40:21] <Werdna>	meh, statistics don't really matter
[10:43:04] <Werdna>	It's just if it can be done pretty easy, why not?
[10:52:03] <josch>	is this normal? dumpHTML.php => php[18587]: segfault at 7fff5afd9f88 rip 5f132d rsp 7fff5afd9f90 error 6
[10:52:31] <josch>	why could this happen? how do I find out what went wrong?
[10:52:50] <josch>	this is especially annoying because it dumped enwiki
[10:54:29] <TimStarling>	josch: you're trying to run dumpHTML on enwiki at home?
[10:54:35] <josch>	aye
[10:54:43] <TimStarling>	that's ambitious
[10:54:46] <josch>	haha
[10:54:54] <josch>	quadcore - only took a week
[10:55:12] <TimStarling>	we'll have official dumps available in a couple of weeks
[10:55:21] <josch>	I know this dumps
[10:55:26] <TimStarling>	anyway, yes, PHP segfaulting is quite normal
[10:55:36] <josch>	but I wanted my own because I patched mediawiki to dump for my needs
[10:55:42] <TimStarling>	you should be using the checkpoint feature
[10:55:53] <josch>	you mean with -s
[10:56:21] <TimStarling>	no, I mean --checkpoint
[10:56:52] <TimStarling>	it writes the current position to a file, and if it quits for any reason, it'll start where it left off
[10:56:58] <josch>	aaah!
[10:57:05] <josch>	dumb me -_-
[10:57:08] <TimStarling>	which can be a bad thing if an article is consistently causing segfaults
[10:57:22] <josch>	and I assume this can also happen
[10:57:34] <TimStarling>	in that case you could edit the checkpoint file to skip a few articles, or debug the problem
[10:57:57] <josch>	so there is now way to do a whole dump automagically without any interference
[10:58:17] <josch>	because there will probably an article causing php to segfault every time
[10:58:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Install ImportFreeImages (Flickr) extension on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8854  +comment (10ThomasBleher)
[10:58:49] <TimStarling>	well, if there is, I will fix it, because that's the approach I take, I don't skip articles
[10:59:18] <josch>	so what do I do if I find such an article?
[10:59:22] <TimStarling>	well, I'll fix it if I see it when I'm doing it
[10:59:30] <TimStarling>	you might be using a different version of PHP and/or MW
[10:59:44] <josch>	php 5.2 + mediawiki svn
[11:00:01] <TimStarling>	we're still on 5.1.something I think
[11:00:18] <TimStarling>	with the new parser?
[11:00:23] <MinuteElectron>	5.2.1
[11:00:33] <josch>	TimStarling, which new parser?
[11:00:42] <josch>	just called dumphtml.php
[11:00:49] <TimStarling>	the new one then
[11:01:15] <TimStarling>	ok, so to debug, the usual way to start is to run php under gdb
[11:01:42] <josch>	okay
[11:02:46] <YazzY>	hi guys 
[11:02:47] <Werdna>	TimStarling: slightly tangential, if I'm having trouble with a glacial perl script (CPAN) would you suggest gdb too? (I've been trying strace)
[11:03:11] <TimStarling>	josch: i've got a page of tips around somewhere...
[11:03:33] <TimStarling>	Werdna: just slow? I think there are some other things I would try first
[11:03:36] <YazzY>	how to open links in new windows, like with plain html  a href=foo.html target=_blank ?
[11:04:08] <TimStarling>	maybe there's a perl profiler you can use
[11:04:09] <josch>	TimStarling, you can tell me for what to google for your tips page
[11:04:18] <TimStarling>	it's not in google, kind of annoying
[11:04:26] <TimStarling>	I discovered that last time I tried to find it
[11:05:03] <TimStarling>	that's right, I found it with Special:Allpages
[11:05:09] *TimStarling 	does so again
[11:05:23] <YazzY>	hlep! :)
[11:05:27] <TimStarling>	https://wikitech.leuksman.com/view/GDB_with_PHP
[11:06:29] <Werdna>	YazzY: my understanding is that there is no such feature in wikitextr.
[11:07:10] <TimStarling>	that page is a bit advanced though... the first thing to do is just run "bt" and see how big the stack is
[11:07:32] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Provide per-namespace site notices - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4469  +comment (10ThomasBleher)
[11:07:36] <TimStarling>	because if it's thousands deep, then it probably ran out of stack space
[11:07:37] <starshine>	Werdna: using really wierd regex?  that can take a chunk of resource..
[11:08:10] <Werdna>	starshine: it's CPAN. It's not my code.
[11:09:05] <YazzY>	Werdna: that's strange and too bad...
[11:09:08] <Werdna>	but it looks like it's okay now.
[11:10:14] <starshine>	Werdna: maybe it just took an age to initialize a bunch of variables and now has them cached?
[11:11:30] *Werdna 	shrugs
[11:12:27] <Werdna>	it keeps making brk() system calls, which (based on 10 seconds' googling) are a symptom of memory leaks
[11:14:59] <K3rl0u4rn>	hi people, I got a serious problem...
[11:15:18] <K3rl0u4rn>	I have a wiki for my project and I am the only admin of this wiki
[11:15:48] <Werdna>	oh no!
[11:16:10] <K3rl0u4rn>	today I have a strange surprise : as soon as I want to modify a page, I have an error claiming I have been autoblocked
[11:17:01] <K3rl0u4rn>	Werdna: :) thanks, nice to see you understand ;)
[11:17:30] <Werdna>	have you blocked anybody?
[11:18:09] <K3rl0u4rn>	ok, the message says "autoblocked because your ip address has been recently  used by {a bot I blocked in the past}. The reson given for {the bot} block is {the mesage I put}"
[11:18:21] <K3rl0u4rn>	I have blocked lots of bots
[11:18:35] <K3rl0u4rn>	I finally disabled subscription on the wiki
[11:18:46] <K3rl0u4rn>	and I register people on demand
[11:18:58] <K3rl0u4rn>	this is a small group, so it does not ask me a lot of time
[11:19:02] <K3rl0u4rn>	I got sooooo many bots
[11:19:31] <K3rl0u4rn>	my version of mediawiki is quite old however because of the database server we have to use
[11:19:38] <Werdna>	right
[11:20:07] <Werdna>	well, the only explanation for that is that somebody's accessed the bot's account (tried to edit) from the same IP address as you.
[11:21:47] <Splarka>	or perhaps you have a cache server not listed in the trusted XFFs
[11:21:58] <K3rl0u4rn>	well I think this is not probable because each computer has public IP addresses at work, so this would mean there is a physical access to the computer right ?
[11:22:09] <Splarka>	do you have checkuser installed? 
[11:22:10] <K3rl0u4rn>	means this is not a bot then ?
[11:22:27] <K3rl0u4rn>	what is checkuser ?
[11:22:45] <Splarka>	!checkuser
[11:22:45] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "checkuser".
[11:22:54] <Splarka>	heh, nice
[11:22:56] <K3rl0u4rn>	I did not install any of the unofficial extensions
[11:23:01] <K3rl0u4rn>	:)
[11:23:41] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Checkuser
[11:24:05] <Splarka>	it is official a bit, it *is* in svn.wikimedia 
[11:24:24] <K3rl0u4rn>	so I didn't install it if this is only svn
[11:24:26] <Splarka>	also you could try logging out and seeing what IP address shows in the p-personal toolbar (if enabled)
[11:24:41] <K3rl0u4rn>	I symply installed what official distro contains
[11:25:01] *Splarka 	notes that this possibility isn't very likely, but does cause insane headaches when it does happen, and gives everyone on the wiki the same IP ^_^)
[11:25:16] <K3rl0u4rn>	I don't think this is my IP address that is blocked
[11:25:25] <K3rl0u4rn>	beacuse I tried on several computers
[11:25:34] <K3rl0u4rn>	with different IPs
[11:25:49] <K3rl0u4rn>	I mean public IPs !
[11:26:08] <K3rl0u4rn>	I think my user is blocked
[11:26:59] <starshine>	well... if it's your wiki.. maybe you could fix it at the database side instead of from the front?
[11:27:16] <K3rl0u4rn>	I guess I can
[11:27:26] <K3rl0u4rn>	but I don't know anything on database programming
[11:27:42] <K3rl0u4rn>	if you can point me to some sql commands, I guess I can do it myself
[11:27:45] <Splarka>	can you link to the wiki?
[11:27:51] <K3rl0u4rn>	sure
[11:28:10] <K3rl0u4rn>	www.irisa.fr/siames/OpenViBE/wiki
[11:28:40] <starshine>	I guess while you're at sysadmin side it'd also be worth looking at the logs, if it logs when it does autoblocking.
[11:29:16] <K3rl0u4rn>	do you mean database logs ?
[11:29:21] <K3rl0u4rn>	or is it mediawiki logs ?
[11:29:30] <K3rl0u4rn>	if mediawiki, where can it be found ?
[11:30:26] <Werdna>	mediawiki logs, as in Special:Ipblocklist
[11:33:40] <K3rl0u4rn>	seams like I can unblock myself from Special:Ipblocklist
[11:33:59] <K3rl0u4rn>	yes !
[11:34:40] <K3rl0u4rn>	Werdna: starshine: Splarka: thank you for your help
[11:34:50] <K3rl0u4rn>	seams like everything is just fine now
[11:35:01] <K3rl0u4rn>	however, I can't understand why I got blocked
[11:35:16] <K3rl0u4rn>	most important is I can edit and send the contributions now !
[11:35:20] <K3rl0u4rn>	thank you all
[11:39:24] <starshine>	yw :)
[11:46:56] <simonjgreen>	hi. i've got a default install of mediawiki on a failed hard disk, that annoyingly wasn't backed up. i'm trying to work out which files to restore for the database. am i correct in thinking that the default database is innodb not myisam?
[11:47:30] <Werdna>	correct.
[11:47:50] <simonjgreen>	ok. in that case i'm not lookinmg for MYI and MYD files then. what would it be? i've been google huntung and google has let me down this time
[11:50:31] <MinuteElectron>	.frm I believe
[11:50:40] <Duesentrieb>	no, that'S just the structure
[11:50:43] <MinuteElectron>	bah
[11:50:54] <MinuteElectron>	ibdata files
[11:50:56] <simonjgreen>	is it something to do with ibdata?
[11:50:58] <simonjgreen>	ah
[11:51:00] <MinuteElectron>	e.g. ibdata1
[11:51:01] <MinuteElectron>	yes
[11:51:05] <Duesentrieb>	yes. ibdata*
[11:51:06] <simonjgreen>	and then it splits them?
[11:51:12] <Duesentrieb>	splits? no.
[11:51:17] <simonjgreen>	ok. are those files database or server wide?
[11:51:22] <Duesentrieb>	innodb operates directly on that file
[11:51:29] <Duesentrieb>	server wide
[11:51:34] <Duesentrieb>	there's usually only one
[11:52:02] <Duesentrieb>	innodb also uses some binary log/buffer for crash recovery
[11:52:30] <Duesentrieb>	simonjgreen: ib_logfile*
[11:53:07] <Duesentrieb>	if you have the data file and the log file, innodb should be able to recover. it's fairly robust
[11:53:21] <Duesentrieb>	simonjgreen: but generally... 
[11:53:24] <Duesentrieb>	!backup
[11:53:24] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki
[11:53:50] <Duesentrieb>	i have written myself a nice script for doing a full back. see here: http://brightbyte.de/page/MediaWiki_backup
[11:54:03] <domas>	'mysqldump'
[11:54:10] <simonjgreen>	lol yeah. this is an oversite that our network manager is getting spanked for
[11:54:30] <simonjgreen>	ok cheers for your help. i'm gonna go hunting
[11:55:13] <Duesentrieb>	domas: yes, well... that doesn't include the config or images. and you need to worry about charset cruft. i'd say mysqldump is 1/3rd of what i need to do to feel safe.
[11:55:41] <simonjgreen>	i plan on doing mysqldump followed by a tape archive of the whole mediawiki and mysql directory
[11:55:45] <Duesentrieb>	so, it's 1/3rd of what my script does :)
[11:56:17] <Duesentrieb>	simonjgreen: yes. for lon term use, i recommend an xml backup every now and then.
[11:56:44] <Duesentrieb>	the xml dump is not an "operational" backup to restore the site. it'S a "content" backup to be able to retrieve wiki content in 10 years.
[11:56:56] <Duesentrieb>	or next week, using a different version of mediawiki
[11:57:18] <domas>	Duesentrieb: *nod*
[11:57:54] <MinuteElectron>	The XML backups also require less security as they do not contain sensitive data.
[11:58:15] <Duesentrieb>	indeed. and compressed, they are also smaller
[11:59:00] <Duesentrieb>	domas: a nice scheme for backing up images would be handy. you know, excluding all thumbs, cached formulas, etc.
[11:59:33] *MinuteElectron 	just download the entire wiki driectory as a tarball.
[11:59:42] <MinuteElectron>	That backs up images reliably.
[12:00:02] <MinuteElectron>	Although you only really need the raw image files (not thumbnails) so it's slightly wasteful.
[12:00:06] <MinuteElectron>	And they are hard to put back.
[12:02:38] <Werdna>	Duesentrieb: commented.
[12:12:54] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Redirect Pages which have extra Text have them placed on top of Article they redirect to - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2012  +comment (10paolo)
[12:39:28] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: tnx. didn't see it right away.
[12:40:16] <hv2>	Hi all, I have a problem: I'm trying to move a mediawiki-1.4.9 installation to a different machine. After the move I can see everything fine, but when I go to edit anything, on hitting preview the editbox is cleared and the preview is blank. Any clues how to get around this?
[12:40:50] <hv2>	(I can probably upgrade to a later mediawiki version, but the target machine has php-4.1.2, and that won't be so easy to upgrade.)
[12:41:53] <Duesentrieb>	hv2: you should at least make the transition to 1.6 - that runs with php4, and it has the "modern" database layout.
[12:42:06] <Duesentrieb>	the transition from 1.4 to 1.5 and later is a big step, because of the schema change.
[12:42:32] <Duesentrieb>	but anything before 1.6 is not langer supported. no one really wants to remember the bad old days
[12:43:24] <hv2>	Super thanks, I'll read that carefully in a sec, someone at the door.
[12:43:54] <Duesentrieb>	when upgrading from 1.4, it's *really* a good idea to have an xml dump in addition to a database backup. sadly, the tools to make one don't come with 1.4... but mwdumper should be able to do it. but that needs java.
[12:55:00] <hv2>	(Back now) mwdumper is a command-line tool? Or in-browser?
[13:14:44] <CIA-42>	03grondin * r30830 10/trunk/extensions/ParserDiffTest/ (ParserDiffTest.i18n.php ParserDiffTest.php): Add internationalization extension description message in [[Special:Version]]
[13:14:58] <hv2>	Right, I've found the "export pages" option that can create an XML dump. But it asks for a list of page titles, how do I get all pages exported?
[13:15:42] <Morbus>	i believer there's a command line tool to get all the dumps.
[13:15:46] <Morbus>	can look in a few minutes.
[13:16:28] <hv2>	Thanks
[13:24:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create new prefix COM: for Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12600  +comment (10anonmoos)
[13:29:29] <CIA-42>	03grondin * r30831 10/trunk/extensions/Interwiki/ (SpecialInterwiki.i18n.php SpecialInterwiki.php): Add internationalization extension description message in [[Special:Version]]
[13:29:59] <csaba>	hi, I have an ordered list, like # aaa # bbb etc... and I want to add code to one of the list items. How to do this? If I add a line break to the list it will be counted as a termination of the list, and the next item will start from 1,2,3,... again
[13:32:52] <csaba>	anyone?
[13:34:00] <Nikerabbit>	<ul> tags?
[13:34:38] <csaba>	well ok...
[13:36:58] <csaba>	ok this breaks the style, now if I write the code it will be regarded as regular text
[13:37:05] <csaba>	How to make it look like code?
[13:37:48] <puzzlet>	<tt>?
[13:38:21] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Sidebar go back to default once every day - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12986  +comment (10niklas.laxstrom)
[13:38:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MediaWiki:Sidebar regularly falls back to an obsolete version, due to server cache effect - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5092  +comment (10niklas.laxstrom)
[13:38:26] <csaba>	but that won't add the nice blue frame to the code
[13:39:33] <csaba>	ah i need to use <pre>!
[13:40:45] <hv2>	Bah, I found dumpBackup.php in v1.6.10, but it looks like it needs a lot of new code, so I assume it isn't going to work in 1.4.9.
[13:58:13] <solidnail>	how fragile is human body?
[13:58:33] <earthnative>	lots
[14:10:19] <hv2>	Bother, this isn't going to work, v1.6 also requires mysql-4+.
[14:10:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Portal Namespace for Telugu mediawiki projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12982   +shell (10raimond.spekking)
[14:12:07] <CIA-42>	03grondin * r30832 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (Lqt.i18n.php LqtPages.php): 
[14:12:07] <CIA-42>	* Add internationalization extension description message in [[Special:Version]]
[14:12:07] <CIA-42>	* Add new internationalization message
[14:12:12] <hv2>	Is there a way to get Special:Allpages to list articles one per line, as required for Special:Export?
[14:12:33] <hv2>	.. or a way to get the same list directly from mysql?
[14:12:40] <Morbus>	what's the simplest extension to look at to show me an example of a) adding a tab to an Image: page, b) accepting form inputs on that page?
[14:44:25] <Wan-WP>	hi
[14:44:40] <Wan-WP>	what extension do I need in order to use "#if" ?
[14:47:12] <Duesentrieb>	!parserfunctions | Wan-WP
[14:47:12] --mwbot--	Wan-WP: "Parser functions" are a way to extend the wiki syntax. ParserFunctions is an extension that provides the basic set of parser functions (you have to install it separately!).  For help using parser functions, please see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Parser_function>. For details about the extension, see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions>.
[14:48:31] <hv2>	Yay, some progress: v1.5.8 upgrade failed, but I managed to upgrade to v1.5.5, and with some tweaking managed to get an XML dump of all pages. Next step, negotiate to get java installed on the target machine ...
[14:49:14] <Wan-WP>	Duesentrieb: Hmm, what does that mean? What extension have I to install, in order to use "#if"? :(
[14:50:16] <Duesentrieb>	Wan-WP: the extension called ParserFunctions
[14:50:27] <Duesentrieb>	Wan-WP: which provides the basic parser functions.
[14:50:28] <Wan-WP>	Duesentrieb: That? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ParserFunctions#Installation ?
[14:50:33] <Duesentrieb>	indeed
[14:51:00] <Duesentrieb>	hm, that page may be old...
[14:51:12] <Duesentrieb>	Wan-WP: here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions#Installation
[14:51:17] <Duesentrieb>	that's the link i gave you in the first place...
[14:51:57] <Duesentrieb>	oh, it's the same page, via a redirect. didn't notice. this stuff should really be moved to mediawiki.org
[14:51:58] <Wan-WP>	Isn't that the same link?!
[14:52:10] <Wan-WP>	yeah :-)
[14:52:17] <Wan-WP>	Duesentrieb: Thanks! :)
[15:08:40] <simonjgreen>	has anybody had experiance of authenticated against active directory?
[15:08:44] <simonjgreen>	(LDAP)
[15:08:55] <VasilievVV>	!ldap | simonjgreen
[15:08:55] --mwbot--	simonjgreen: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LDAP_Authentication
[15:09:09] <simonjgreen>	o rly
[15:09:38] <simonjgreen>	why couldn't i find that :) thanks
[15:11:42] <Wan-WP>	bye
[15:13:38] <CIA-42>	03grondin * r30833 10/trunk/extensions/LookupUser/ (LookupUser.i18n.php LookupUser.php): 
[15:13:38] <CIA-42>	* Add internationalization extension description message in [[Special:Version]]
[15:13:38] <CIA-42>	* Add new internationalization message
[15:33:44] <CIA-42>	03leogregianin * r30834 10/trunk/tools/planet/pt/templates/index.html.tmpl: minor changes
[15:39:36] <hv2>	I've exported an XML dump from one wiki and imported to another using mwimporter (I think); is there something I'm supposed to do now to make the imported pages show up?
[15:39:51] <hv2>	I saw a mention of purging the cache, but I'm not sure how to do that.
[15:43:00] <CIA-42>	03yaron * r30835 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_FormPrinter.inc: 
[15:43:00] <CIA-42>	Improved handling for autocompletion fields - 'list' property added, as well
[15:43:00] <CIA-42>	as being able to set input type; bug fixes, including fix for date fields
[15:43:00] <CIA-42>	interfering with autocompletion
[15:43:25] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Support crosswiki blocking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12987 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Extensions requests; (vasilvv)
[15:43:41] <CIA-42>	03yaron * r30836 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_FormClasses.inc: New 'is_list' field
[15:44:13] <CIA-42>	03yaron * r30837 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_FormEditTab.php: Fix for small PHP bug
[15:44:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support global blocking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707  summary; +comment (10vasilvv)
[15:45:20] <CIA-42>	03yaron * r30838 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/ (INSTALL includes/SF_GlobalFunctions.php): New version: 0.9.4
[15:45:20] <Warpath>	O_O
[15:46:10] <Wiredtape>	Hey all, I am having a problem with extension "PageFunctions". Specifically, if I use {{#pagetitle: <new title name>}} , it only changes the title if i have action=purge in the url, anyone have any ideas about this?
[15:48:31] <VasilievVV>	It's because of caching issues I think
[15:49:46] <Wiredtape>	I would guess so, but why wouldn't the pagetitle change be cached as well? doesn't parser come before caching?
[15:52:59] <adioe3>	Hey all. I'm trying to use a short url on my wiki, I've got 1.11.1 and this problem: wikiurl/article works but wikiurl/article/with/slash doesn't. Anybody had this problem?
[15:53:31] <CIA-42>	03huji * r30839 10/trunk/extensions/ (11 files in 11 dirs): Adding/updating Persian translations
[15:53:47] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, when you say wikiurl/article/with/slash doesn't work.. you mean you get a no such page?
[15:55:06] <adioe3>	I get a 404
[15:55:30] <Wiredtape>	paste your rewrite rules... to rafb.net/paste/
[15:55:30] <adioe3>	The requested URL /a/w/slash was not found on this server.
[15:55:56] <adioe3>	sec. btw. i'm using no root with php in chi
[15:55:57] <adioe3>	cgi
[15:56:05] <adioe3>	http://rafb.net/p/rAOSfq61.html
[15:56:53] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, try changing the (.+) to (.*)
[15:57:37] <CIA-42>	03evan * r30840 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/interwiki.sql: 
[15:57:37] <CIA-42>	Added Keiki (http://kei.ki/) and Vinismo (http://vinismo.com/) to
[15:57:37] <CIA-42>	default interwiki map.
[15:57:53] <RichiH>	anyone know if http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Email_Digest works? it is listed as 'unknown'
[15:59:59] <Reedy_Boy>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MediaWiki
[16:00:42] <adioe3>	Wiredtape: (.*) doesn't help
[16:01:25] <VasilievVV>	Reedy_Boy: some users enjoy trolling...
[16:01:29] <CharlieHuggard>	try commenting out the rewrite rule on line 5 adioe3
[16:01:37] <Reedy_Boy>	I'll just close it
[16:01:53] <RichiH>	hmm, and the links are dead, too
[16:02:07] <VasilievVV>	Reedy_Boy: thanks
[16:02:24] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, what CharlieHuggard said.. was about to be my next suggestion
[16:04:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support crosswiki blocking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12987  (10meno25wiki)
[16:05:51] <adioe3>	Wiredtape: now i get a 500 -- server misconfig error
[16:06:13] <Reedy_Boy>	Closed
[16:06:58] <VasilievVV>	Reedy_Boy: may you also take care about troll who nominated that article?
[16:07:41] <Reedy_Boy>	Yeah... He's got histroy
[16:07:41] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, is it still on .* or back to .+ (with 5th line commented out..)
[16:07:56] <adioe3>	.*, 5th commented out
[16:10:34] <Wiredtape>	hmm... adioe3, try commenting everything except for the 1st and last lines...
[16:12:11] <VasilievVV>	Reedy_Boy: I think he's angry because article of his project (which is going to run MediaWiki :) was deleted..
[16:12:21] <Reedy_Boy>	lol
[16:12:31] <Reedy_Boy>	Ameripedia?
[16:12:42] <quentin_>	hello
[16:12:54] <VasilievVV>	Reedy_Boy: yes
[16:13:06] <quentin_>	i have a strange css issue on my wiki (monobook): http://lambic.kicks-ass.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit
[16:13:41] <quentin_>	the footer does not move to the bottom, at the end of the content-page but keeps fixed at its position
[16:13:56] <quentin_>	how come's? hardly changed anything at the stylesheet
[16:14:32] <Wiredtape>	quentin_, do you still have a visualclear div before it, or a clear:both for #footer?
[16:16:44] <quentin_>	Wiredtape, thanks, that was it! :) 
[16:17:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support crosswiki blocking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12987  (10triyork)
[16:17:26] <Wiredtape>	quentin_, np
[16:17:34] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, does it work now?
[16:17:43] <adioe3>	Wiredtape: got it working
[16:17:50] <adioe3>	commenting line 5 out was it
[16:18:00] <adioe3>	but the admin didn't set .htaccess files as an option
[16:18:04] <adioe3>	(server admin)
[16:18:17] <adioe3>	but now i get different results for wiki/article and wiki/article/
[16:19:28] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, that's because article names are specific.. infact wiki/art/bla is a subpage of wiki/art which is a subpage of wiki, however, I don't know if wiki/art/ is connected in anyway to wiki/art.. 
[16:19:50] <Wiredtape>	probably with wiki/art/ "art/" is considered a subpage of wiki
[16:20:14] <Wiredtape>	if you want automatic backlinks set $wgNamespaceswithsubpages["NS_MAIN"] = true;
[16:20:24] <Wiredtape>	or without the ""
[16:20:40] <Wiredtape>	and it's $wgNamespacesWithSubpages
[16:23:21] <adioe3>	Wiredtape: is there a way using MW to make BHLD/ rendered as BHLD ?
[16:23:29] <adioe3>	and not htaccess?
[16:24:12] <CIA-42>	03raymond * r30841 10/trunk/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Localisation updates German
[16:27:43] <Wiredtape>	adioe3, not that I can think of... it is a seperate entity.. 
[16:41:03] <Jack_Phoenix>	I've got a question about file uploads...I have multiple wikis sharing one source code (the source is under /home/www/wiki/) and I would like to have all wikis to have their own upload directory. Like /home/www/wiki/images/somewiki/ and .../images/anotherwiki and so on. However, I fail to get this working...the server *should* serve images from wiki.jackphoenix.com, but it tries to fetch them from subdomainname.jackphoenix.com, which fails as
[16:41:03] <Jack_Phoenix>	 no subdomain (except wiki) has its own source code...all are using the same shared one.
[16:42:07] <saintiss>	hi all
[16:42:15] <saintiss>	what's the best way to make a wiki "private"?
[16:42:19] <saintiss>	.htaccess?
[16:42:22] <ialex>	Jack_Phoenix: all wikis are in the same subdomain ?
[16:42:30] <VasilievVV>	saintiss: no
[16:43:01] <Jack_Phoenix>	ialex: hmm? they have the same source code, but I'd like to have wiki1 and wiki2 to have their own image directories under www/wiki/images
[16:43:06] <VasilievVV>	!wg GroupPermissions | saintiss
[16:43:06] --mwbot--	saintiss: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgGroupPermissions
[16:46:27] <simonjgreen>	is there a better search engine available for mediawiki?