[00:00:27] <Rothschild>	Hmm, does anyone know where in main.css is "red" for missing article?
[00:00:40] <Rothschild>	also code for the buttons, like edit, protect, preferences at the top?
[00:03:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special:PrefixIndex paging links contain invalid XML - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13949  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[00:07:06] <Rothschild>	Anyone?
[00:07:32] <skierpage>	Rothschild, the red is class="new", and it's in various CSS files, e.g. skins/monobook/main.css
[00:07:34] <skierpage>	I think
[00:08:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Separate categorisation system needed for maintenance - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6973   +schema-change; summary; +comment (10danny_b)
[00:08:09] <skierpage>	Rothschild, the Firebug extension for Firefox is invaluable for tracking down such stuff.
[00:09:27] <skierpage>	Rothschild, the buttons at the top are, e.g. /w/skins/common/images/button_bold.png, added by JavaScript
[00:14:19] <CIA-50>	03simetrical * r34229 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/SpecialAllpages.php): (bug 13949) Special:PrefixIndex/AllPages paging links contain invalid XML
[00:14:22] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Special:PrefixIndex/AllPages paging links contain invalid XML - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13949  summary; +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[00:17:46] <Wiredtape>	does anyone know what function creates the section-edit links, and whether it is executed before "BeforePageDisplay" hook?
[00:18:06] <Blafasel>	Hi. I have a private mediawiki and try to do the following: A template with a {{parameter}} (int) should add a category [[Category:Foobar|{{parameter}}]], but this fails to work correctly: Both {{parameter}} 1 and 10, 18 etc. end up being sorted by the first letter only - 1. Can I change that somehow?
[00:19:04] <Rothschild>	skierpage, using it XD
[00:19:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interproject links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708  (10danny_b)
[00:19:14] <Rothschild>	skierpage and thank you! :)
[00:21:55] <skierpage>	Rothschild, sorry I thought you meant the edit buttons in page editing, made by EditPage.php and possibly extended by wikibits.js.  The *tabs* like edit, protect, preferences at the top are something else, I'm not sure how they're generated and skinned.
[00:22:46] <Rothschild>	skierpage, the blue "preferences" and stuff?
[00:22:53] <Rothschild>	I just wish to change them from blue to golden :)
[00:24:28] <Rothschild>	Crap, can't get rid of this "red" missing article thing X_X
[00:24:44] <Rothschild>	Looking at "new" like you said skierpage and it's not working XD
[00:27:03] <skierpage>	Rothschild, the "edit" and "protect" tabs at the top are inside a portlet with id="p-cactions" and main.css has lots of styling for that. Preferences is in a similar portlet with id="p-personal"
[00:27:18] <Rothschild>	Uh-huh
[00:27:34] *skierpage 	shouldn't pretend to help, CSS is a dark art to me ;-)
[00:28:21] <Rothschild>	XD
[00:28:26] <Rothschild>	Now you doing so far so good :)
[00:28:43] <Rothschild>	I for one just started digging through it, so I suck XD
[00:31:34] <Rothschild>	Crap
[00:31:41] <Rothschild>	skierpage, how good are you with templates/
[00:33:00] <skierpage>	barely
[00:33:14] <Rothschild>	XD
[00:34:50] <Wiredtape>	are you two any good with regex?
[00:34:56] <skierpage>	Rothschild http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Skinning might help , and it links to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Customization:Explaining_skins#Major_style_blocks_by_name
[00:34:59] <Rothschild>	Wiredtape, nope
[00:35:10] <Wiredtape>	skierpage?
[00:35:23] <Rothschild>	Wiredtape, perhaps you know :)
[00:35:27] <skierpage>	!ask |Wiredtape
[00:35:27] --mwbot--	Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. Also, please read < http://workaround.org/moin/GettingHelpOnIrc > for a good explanation of getting help on IRC.
[00:35:47] <Rothschild>	I need to substitute "text" for "image" in template
[00:36:01] <Wiredtape>	I will help you both with templates and css, but i need to figure something out here, and before i do that.. i can't really do much else :=\
[00:36:04] <Rothschild>	Markie helped me out, I forgot X_X
[00:36:33] <skierpage>	I'm pretty good with regexp until I get to zero-width negative lookahead assertions.
[00:38:11] <Wiredtape>	skierpage, well... i'm trying to figure out how to add *something* (will explain in a second) to: /^<a name="(.*?)"><\/a><h1>.*?<span class="mw-headline">\s*<\/span><\/h1>/m
[00:41:18] <Wiredtape>	the .*? between <h1> and <span> ... i need to make that into giving me the value of: index.php?title=*&action=edit&section=<whatineed>
[00:41:24] <Wiredtape>	you know how to do that?
[00:43:58] <skierpage>	Uhh, I think so.  My dog is barking at me... shuddup bitch!!
[00:44:41] <Wiredtape>	..
[00:45:59] <skierpage>	Wiredtap, what are you doing this regex in, an editor of some kind or Perl or sed or ??
[00:46:13] <Wiredtape>	php, on a mw extension..
[00:46:38] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Provide syndicated feeds of a user's page creations - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6369  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[00:47:03] <skierpage>	Wiretap, anyway (.*?) will do a minimal grab of stuff.  So ...
[00:47:37] <Wiredtape>	right.. well i need the number that goes in the &section=<here>
[00:47:40] <Wiredtape>	nothing else though
[00:49:21] <Wiredtape>	but actually... after testing i see that having it as (.*?) actually does a better job and already provides me a link to the edit section.. which is what i wanted in the first place.. :)
[01:02:20] <Rothschild>	*wave* night folks
[01:08:53] <Wiredtape>	ok.. i'm done with what i needed :)
[01:09:06] <Wiredtape>	skierpage, do you need any help ?
[01:28:16] <AzaTht>	why doesn't blocking add user to ones watchlist?
[01:29:01] <AzaTht>	I'll bug that
[01:31:05] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Watching - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Blocking; (azatoth)
[01:31:52] <heridanus>	you all everybory 
[01:32:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Watching - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950  (10JSchulz_4587)
[01:32:16] <heridanus>	everybody*
[01:32:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to watch the user pages of users you block - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950  summary (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[01:36:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Changing the text when a wiki does not exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11125  (10dotkorg)
[01:40:06] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Provide URL parameters for all RSS/Atom feeds - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13951 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:40:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable email notification on changes to user talk pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5220  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:44:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable email notification on en,de,fr wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5505  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:45:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Ability to watch all articles in a category - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1710  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:46:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Cross-wiki watchlists with option for public viewing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3525  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:50:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide syndicated feeds of a user's page creations - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6369  (10danny_b)
[01:50:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds tracking bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  (10danny_b)
[01:50:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide all URL parameters for all RSS/Atom feeds consistently - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13951  summary (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:56:30] <Rothschild>	Grr
[01:57:00] <Rothschild>	Can anyone please help me figure out why my monobook.css gets overridden? :)
[01:57:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide all URL parameters for all RSS/Atom feeds consistently - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13951  15enhancement->normal (10danny_b)
[01:57:14] <Rothschild>	Or at least what am I doing wrong, trying to change color for "new"
[01:57:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds tracking bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  (10danny_b)
[01:59:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable email notification on changes to user talk pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5220  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[01:59:35] <Rothschild>	a.new, #quickbar a.new {index.php (line 2)
[01:59:35] <Rothschild>	color:#CC2200;
[01:59:35] <Rothschild>	}
[01:59:49] <Rothschild>	I dunno where that comes from X_X
[02:00:11] <Rothschild>	I did exact same thing (minu index.php (line 2) into monobook.css with changed color
[02:00:14] <Rothschild>	and it still red
[02:00:51] <Rothschild>	I'm about to try and run towards the wall head first X_X
[02:03:41] <Danny_B>	Rothschild: is your wiki publicly accessible?
[02:04:07] <Rothschild>	Danny_B, um this is test wiki
[02:04:18] <Rothschild>	So I don't think so, have to login: test, test01
[02:04:23] <Rothschild>	But it doesn't have sysop access X_X
[02:04:37] <Rothschild>	Using that one as test, main on another host
[02:04:54] <Rothschild>	http://hleba.net/wiki/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Monobook.css
[02:06:12] <Danny_B>	Rothschild: you have a bunch of errors in it, validate it first
[02:06:13] <Rothschild>	I'm just thinking going into main.css and rewriting it there X_X
[02:06:22] <Rothschild>	Danny_B, what errors?
[02:07:03] <Danny_B>	http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhleba.net%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DMediaWiki%3AMonobook.css%26action%3Draw%26ctype%3Dtext%2Fcss
[02:07:12] <Danny_B>	Rothschild: ^
[02:08:13] <Rothschild>	Hmm
[02:12:18] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) RSS feed for Special:NewPages shows improper raw HTML - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13952 normal; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (danny_b)
[02:12:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds tracking bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  (10danny_b)
[02:59:43] <sektor>	how big is the database once it was completely exported from pages-articles.xml.bz2 ?
[03:00:04] <cjb>	Sager: for enwiki?
[03:00:24] <cjb>	s/Sager/sektr/
[03:00:41] <sektor>	yeah
[03:00:47] <sektor>	enwiki
[03:01:09] <sektor>	its been importing for like 3 days straight already 
[03:01:13] <cjb>	dunno, somewhere >10G <60G, I guess.
[03:01:26] <cjb>	that's odd.
[03:01:28] <sektor>	its at like 8gb now
[03:01:35] <cjb>	wow.  very slow.
[03:01:46] <sektor>	yeah
[03:01:54] <sektor>	i dunno, my computer is alright 
[03:08:30] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Global user style - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13953 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (dotkorg)
[03:11:13] <Jubei>	hello;) Could somebody give me some advice regarding setting up my own wiki? Are there any decent free providers? Do free providers keep mediawiki up to date? (i.e. update it to newer versions when they come out?)
[03:12:16] <Cave>	Hey, anyone know how to place images in the sidebar?
[03:12:31] <Charitwo>	rar Splarka 
[03:12:46] <Splarka>	Cave: do they need to be clickable?
[03:13:16] <Cave>	That would be great - I need it to be a place for affiliate images
[03:13:20] <Splarka>	ahh
[03:13:39] <Splarka>	easiest way is to make a separate sidebar portlet, and hijack them with CSS
[03:14:30] <Splarka>	but then it can only reliably be between the logo and search box (in monobook) 
[03:17:27] <Cave>	Ah, well, I'll try
[03:17:37] <Cave>	Thanks for the help
[03:17:57] <Splarka>	like for example in Sidebar:
[03:17:57] <Splarka>	* affiliate1
[03:17:57] <Splarka>	** http://www.google.com| 
[03:18:24] <Splarka>	creates:
[03:18:24] <Splarka>	<div class='generated-sidebar portlet' id='p-affiliate1'> <h5>affiliate1</h5> <div class='pBody'> <ul> <li id="n-"><a href="http://www.google.com"></a></li> </ul> </div> </div>
[03:21:45] <Splarka>	and then
[03:21:45] <Splarka>	#p-affiliate1 div {border:none;}
[03:21:45] <Splarka>	#p-affiliate1 h5 {display:none;}
[03:21:45] <Splarka>	#p-affiliate1 ul, #p-affiliate1 li {list-style:none;padding:0;margin:0;}
[03:21:45] <Splarka>	#p-affiliate1 a {display:block;width:150px;height:55px;background-image:url("http://www.google.com/intl/en/images/codesearch_logo_sm.gif");}
[03:22:04] <Splarka>	turns it into a link to google, with a google logo (hotlinked in this example)
[03:28:09] <Cave>	Thanks
[03:34:28] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) Changes in global CSS/ JS do not apply - unable to purge site CSS/JS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12775  +comment (10herd)
[03:34:34] <Supaplex>	I'm using the gallery feature for internal documentation of assets. how do I up the max file size so I get good pictures?
[03:35:13] <Splarka>	max file size can be complex to change
[03:35:41] <Splarka>	the mediawiki software of course has a max setting, but so does PHP, and so does the web daemon (eg apache), so you might have to set all 3
[03:35:51] <CIA-50>	03aaron * r34230 10/trunk/phase3/includes/SpecialNewpages.php: Remove garbage HTML, show user
[03:36:07] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) RSS feed for Special:NewPages shows improper raw HTML - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13952  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[03:36:11] <Splarka>	oop, that is the max upload size, did you mean max gallery thumbnail size...?
[03:36:35] <Supaplex>	I get warnings on uploads. my thubnails don't appear to generate either. my max php memory size is 100mb
[03:36:49] <Supaplex>	most of these are 7megapixel images, jpegs
[03:37:18] <cjb>	Hum.  I want to get a list of each article and its total number of revisions inside eswiki.  Importing the whole .7z into mysql looks like it'll take days.
[03:39:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add DOM friendly importScript and importStylesheet functions into wikibits .js - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13232  (10herd)
[03:39:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) JavaScript (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114  (10herd)
[03:43:19] <Splarka>	Supaplex: does it work at 200mb?
[03:43:28] <Splarka>	also: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgMaxImageArea
[03:43:58] <Amgine>	Is it possible to turn off the automagic table of contents for all pages?
[03:44:09] <Amgine>	While still allowing __TOC__ to be used?
[03:45:32] <Splarka>	hmm
[03:46:50] <Splarka>	I am not sure if $wgDefaultUserOptions = array('showtoc'                 => 0,)  would allow __TOC__ or not
[03:47:22] <Amgine>	hmms.
[03:47:57] <Splarka>	give it a test, go to your preferences and deselect that under Misc [] Show table of contents (for pages with more than 3 headings)
[03:48:08] <Splarka>	then see if it appears with __TOC__ (and at least one heading)
[03:48:24] <Splarka>	the other option is to put __NOTOC__ on most pages
[03:49:50] <Amgine>	<nod> Actually, I'm wondering what WikiHow did to make TOC unavailable in any situation, and if there is a way to default it to not show.
[03:50:26] <Splarka>	#toc { display: none;}
[03:50:27] <Splarka>	heh
[03:51:22] <Amgine>	<blinks> But that would still show the toc in the output html, which their's does not.
[03:51:32] <Amgine>	Wouldn't it?
[03:51:35] <Splarka>	yes
[03:51:39] <Splarka>	so maybe a skin hack
[03:51:51] <Amgine>	yah, that's kinda what I'm thinking.
[03:51:54] <Splarka>	or 'showtoc' => 0,
[03:52:03] <Splarka>	(but that would allow it in preferences)
[03:56:33] <Supaplex>	Splarka: after setting it to 400mb, I see no change.  ini_set( 'memory_limit', '400M' ); $wgUploadSizeWarning = 7.2*1024*1024; there's 2gb of ram in this box, and there's maybe 2 people that'll use it at the same time (mostly for viewing)
[03:56:56] <Supaplex>	oddly, I don't see any error messages. just thumbnails that don't show up, and preview images that won't fill in.
[04:00:37] <Supaplex>	humm GET ...et_back.jpg/120px-100bt_3c509b_pci_ethernet_back.jpg HTTP/1.1" 404 in apache logs
[04:01:04] <Supaplex>	hah sh: /usr/bin/convert: No such file or directory
[04:07:18] <Supaplex>	thumbnail issues solved :) silly imagemagik was not installed.
[04:08:54] <Splarka>	heh
[04:09:19] *Charitwo 	casts magik on Splarka
[04:09:23] <Splarka>	I thought you meant just *bug* thumbnails didn't appear
[04:09:27] <Splarka>	er *big*
[04:12:53] <AphelionZ>	Are there any API people around? I'm trying to make my site which uses the API less sluggish
[04:16:27] <AphelionZ>	If somebody could just click around these pages (http://wikibondev.org/wiki/v/) stay in the center column
[04:16:41] <AphelionZ>	and just let me know why they think the database server or the http server craps out so many times
[04:18:59] <Supaplex>	AphelionZ: did you check the database? I had corrupted database tables a few months ago
[04:19:22] <AphelionZ>	Supaplex: can that be fixed with a REPAIR or OPTIMIZE?
[04:22:29] <Supaplex>	I avoid sql where possible. those neurons get displaced quickly, so I don't recall now.
[04:23:18] <AphelionZ>	oh..
[04:23:25] <Supaplex>	if the checks say it need repairs, then ...
[04:23:38] <AphelionZ>	naw they didn't
[04:23:46] <AphelionZ>	its just bizarre that this is the only section of the site that does this
[04:26:47] <Supaplex>	who's jimmy?
[04:32:07] <Supaplex>	ahh there he is http://wikibondev.org/w/images/images/archive/d/d8/20071120220017!Jimmys.JPG
[04:33:16] <AphelionZ>	good old jimmy
[05:12:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Subcategory paging is not separate from article or image paging - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1211  (10donpaolo)
[05:39:37] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[07:18:31] <triplc>	hi all
[07:19:47] <triplc>	How to have https for login only? I use a mediawiki for my group... which allows edit only for loggin users. But when login using https, i cannot edit using http. Editting with https is ok
[07:24:08] <triplc>	How to set: login using https and then edit using normal http?
[07:41:56] <CIA-50>	03grondin * r34231 10/trunk/extensions/APC/ViewAPC.i18n.php: adding french messages
[07:49:35] <MejGun>	hi all
[07:49:54] <MejGun>	how can i protect page from viewing ?
[07:51:26] <MejGun>	i found "protection of a page against editing"
[07:52:08] <Werdna>	MejGun: you can add 'read' to $wgProtectionTypes, but your mileage may vary
[07:52:13] <Werdna>	!access
[07:52:13] --mwbot--	For information on customizing user access, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_rights>. For common examples of restricting access using both rights and extensions, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access>.
[07:52:33] <MejGun>	thx
[07:53:08] <Splarka>	the short answer is you can't
[07:53:21] <Splarka>	(not safely)
[07:53:25] <Splarka>	!cms
[07:53:25] --mwbot--	Wikis are designed for openness, to be readable and editable by all. If you want a forum, a blog, a web authoring toolkit or corporate content management system, perhaps don't use wiki software. There is a nice overview of free tools available at <http://www.opensourcecms.com/> including the possibility to try each system. For was to restrict access in MediaWiki, see !access.
[07:53:26] <MejGun>	:-(
[07:53:47] <Splarka>	because there are over a dozen ways to see page content without "viewing"
[07:55:24] <MejGun>	thx :-)
[07:56:00] <CIA-50>	03grondin * r34232 10/trunk/extensions/APC/ViewAPC.i18n.php: reverted. Allready translated in Betawiki
[07:56:48] <_wooz>	lo
[08:04:39] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Permissions on php files in release tarball - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13954 minor; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (johnf)
[08:05:16] <joobie>	guys anyone know a secure way / tool / add-on to store passwords in mediawiki?
[08:08:04] <Werdna>	joobie: more detail on what you're trying to do?
[08:09:20] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34233 10/trunk/extensions/Babel/codes/ISO_639-3.php: eol-style:native
[08:10:22] <Duesentrieb>	!secrets | joobie
[08:10:22] --mwbot--	joobie: MediaWiki was not designed with read-restrictions in mind, and may not provide air-tight protection against unauthorized access. We will not be held responsible should private information, such as a password or bank details, be leaked, leading to loss of funds or one's job.
[08:10:54] <joobie>	Werdna, we use mediawiki as a resource to store information about our clients. Currently we just store username and no password.. we refrained from storing passwords here because we felt the mediawiki password page protection + ssl is not enough security to store the passwords.. trying to think of some ways to store it in the wiki in a more secure manner
[08:11:26] <joobie>	ya.. well based on the above - that's why we weren't comfortable storing it in there
[08:12:31] <Werdna>	hmm
[08:13:39] <Dantman>	Passwords on user accounts?
[08:14:31] <joobie>	passwords
[08:14:35] <joobie>	we store user accounts in there currently
[08:15:17] <Duesentrieb>	joobie: you can always encrypt whatever with gnupg and put the reult into the wiki. no idea how that would make sense, but it is a secure way to store passwords int the wiki, i guess,
[08:15:53] <Duesentrieb>	you have to ask yourself *why* you want to store them there. and if the convenience you cain is even possible without compromising security
[08:16:26] <joobie>	it is convenience
[08:16:37] <joobie>	but say we encrypt the pass and put it on the wiki
[08:16:48] <joobie>	to decrypt then we need to run through another app ya
[08:16:54] <joobie>	is there a wiki based tool that can be used to decrypt
[08:16:58] <joobie>	so it can be all limited to the wiki
[08:17:00] <Werdna>	you could use an appropriately written extension.
[08:17:06] <Duesentrieb>	no. because that would be inheritly insecure
[08:17:14] <Duesentrieb>	see, it can not be secure and convenient at the same time
[08:17:22] <Werdna>	sure it can
[08:17:24] <Werdna>	don't be silly.
[08:17:56] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: well... no, it *is* a tradeoff. sure, it can be made more convenient while staying secure, etc
[08:18:18] <Duesentrieb>	but generally, if you want it secure, you have to jum through some loops.
[08:18:41] <Duesentrieb>	if you have the wiki decrypt it, it's not going to be secure any more. 
[08:18:54] <Duesentrieb>	to be reasonably secure, secrety have to stay local.
[08:19:15] <Duesentrieb>	which means distributing keys, having the right app, etc
[08:19:17] <Werdna>	sure you can do that
[08:19:35] <Duesentrieb>	do what?
[08:19:42] <Werdna>	you can write an extension that disables page caching, and works only if the user has a 'viewpassword' right
[08:19:45] <Werdna>	that's not too hard.
[08:20:49] <Duesentrieb>	Werdna: huh? that just as insecure as any other page protectiopn extension we offer.
[08:21:09] <Duesentrieb>	the fact that i can't think of a way to bypass it off-hand doesn't mean it's SECURE.
[08:21:34] <Duesentrieb>	we have had majore loopholes discovered in the past. stuff getting leaked through diffs in rss feeds, etc
[08:21:56] <Duesentrieb>	hell, export was completely unprotected for years.
[08:22:50] <Splarka>	heh
[08:23:18] <Splarka>	I was able to defeat medcom's official wiki's per-page protection with a simple transclusion in preview
[08:23:36] <Splarka>	(requires edit access, but still..)
[08:24:49] <Duesentrieb>	yes, that's a simple way to defeat most of them, it bypasses the userCan check. you have to use wgNonincludableNamespaces to protect against it
[08:25:18] <Splarka>	and that's just one of a dozen paths
[08:25:27] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Security_issues_with_authorization_extensions
[08:27:41] <Duesentrieb>	i know, i wrote several of the entries :)
[08:28:02] <Duesentrieb>	the better extensions cover all known loopholes.
[08:28:06] <Duesentrieb>	but there may well be more.
[08:30:08] *Splarka 	only wrote half of one, but should write another he knows
[08:30:24] <Duesentrieb>	yea, write more :)
[08:31:17] <Splarka>	with a shared user DB, it is (or was in ~1.5) possible to have a 'read' leak if you have the appropriate group on a sibling wiki
[08:31:40] <Splarka>	not sure how it was set up actually, heh
[08:32:03] <Splarka>	but that is possibly a common configuration, people wanting secure pages make a parallel wiki with the same user db, but with different rights assignments
[08:32:39] <joobie>	wow
[08:32:45] <joobie>	just read the backlog
[08:32:47] <joobie>	interesting
[08:33:00] <joobie>	so what would you'll consider a secure way to do it - given it needs to be made availabel on the net?
[08:33:20] <joobie>	i currently have a htaccess passwd set to the site.. so that's one level outside of medawiki that you need to pass to get access
[08:33:24] <joobie>	then mediawiki needs you to login
[08:33:26] <joobie>	then..?
[08:33:31] <Dantman>	Never store clents passwords in plain form anywhere...!
[08:33:37] <joobie>	ya
[08:33:38] <Dantman>	That's the only real sollution
[08:33:41] <joobie>	im thinken of crypting it
[08:33:45] <joobie>	like dues suggested
[08:33:53] <Werdna>	well, I'd personally write an extension for decrypting passwords; or, you could store it externally
[08:34:07] <Dantman>	Actually, best to just hash it in a way you can't decript it
[08:34:19] <Dantman>	Honnestly, passwords should never show up outside of the client app
[08:35:01] <Dantman>	And the client app should always store them in a hashed form that can't be decrypted
[08:35:10] <joobie>	Werdna, how would the extension work you have in mind?
[08:35:21] <Werdna>	tag extension.
[08:35:39] <Werdna>	<decryptpassword>base64-encoded-encrypted-password</decryptpassword>
[08:35:59] <joobie>	k
[08:36:02] <joobie>	so that contains the hash
[08:36:03] <joobie>	then?
[08:36:10] <Werdna>	well, you can't decrypt a hash
[08:38:42] <joobie>	so that would show a hash on the screen ya?
[08:38:57] <joobie>	then u would copy that and paste it into another app with a salt to get the passwd?
[08:39:14] <joobie>	anyway to keep that whole process in mediawiki - or ist hat insecure
[08:39:22] <joobie>	.. can think of a secure way to do it?
[08:50:07] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[09:10:52] <CIA-50>	03dantman * r34234 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Tweaking Semantic MediaWiki maintenance scripts to use the MW_INSTALL_PATH environment variable.
[09:13:38] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Include HTML meta tags for pages' Atom/ RSS feeds in view mode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13955 normal; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (Wiki.Melancholie)
[09:15:26] <CIA-50>	03dantman * r34235 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_refreshData.php: Whoops... I was using something different for this one because of it's need for multiple maintenance scripts. So this one missed the needed /maintenance/ directory in the path.
[09:16:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Include HTML meta tags for pages' Atom/ RSS feeds in article view mode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13955  summary (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[09:16:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds tracking bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[09:16:33] <yang>	Could someone tell me which values must be entered in AdminSettings.php, I am upgrading from 1.11 to 1.12 ... are these the same as WGDBuser and WGDBpassword from LocalSettings.php ?
[09:20:31] <CIA-50>	03nikerabbit * r34236 10/trunk/extensions/APC/APCHostMode.php: * Suppress some notices
[09:27:25] <CIA-50>	03jojo * r34237 10/trunk/extensions/Collection/ (Collection.i18n.php pdf-server/pdf-server.py): added progress for PDF generation
[09:37:26] <CIA-50>	03btongminh * r34238 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQueryInfo.php: API: Expose cascading protection via inprop=protection for non-existent pages.
[09:41:12] <brasseur>	Hi, does the thumb.php URL (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/thumb.php?w=130&f=Wiki.png for example) return an image for every image of wikipedia or only some of them? Is there a difference with the Special URL ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Filepath/Image:Wiki.png for example)?
[09:42:20] <Splarka>	the thumb.php only generates images at a specified thumbnail size, and only if the image is larger than or equal to that size
[09:42:41] <Splarka>	(and isn't too big for the memory allocation)
[09:43:01] <Splarka>	the filepath is actually a 302 HTTP redirect to the image location at full size
[09:43:48] <Splarka>	so, the Filepath will more reliably always work (assuming it exists), but the file may change size (say, a bigger or smaller version gets uploaded)
[09:44:23] <Splarka>	the thumb returns a static non-forwarding URL, and a constant image size, but relies on the image being larger than that size
[09:45:11] <Splarka>	note that you can predict a file path based on its name
[09:45:16] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Filepath/Image:Wiki.png  gives  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png
[09:45:47] <Splarka>	the md5 of "Wiki.png" is bc32c4ef985f1924664e5f5c7359ef62  ... the filepath you'll note contains /b/bc
[09:46:28] *Splarka 	hopes brasseur got that all ^_^
[09:46:57] <brasseur>	Splarka: thanks, if I take the example of 'Abe_Lincoln_young.jpg', it is accessible form the upload url http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Abe_Lincoln_young.jpg but not from the thumb.php: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/thumb.php?w=80&f=Abe_Lincoln_young.jpg 
[09:47:35] <Splarka>	http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/thumb.php?w=80&f=Abe_Lincoln_young.jpg
[09:47:45] <Splarka>	note that the URL is /wikipedia/commons/
[09:48:17] <Splarka>	it isn't on en.wikipedia, per se...
[09:48:22] <brasseur>	Splarka: oh oki
[09:48:49] <Splarka>	so I guess that is another difference between the two
[09:48:58] <Splarka>	Filepath will resolve images from shared repositories
[09:49:20] *Splarka 	thought thumb did too, actually, ahh well
[10:42:20] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34239 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (53 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-05-05 12:21 CEST)
[10:47:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add show updated marker preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13910  +comment (10webboy)
[10:47:09] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) In Atom/ RSS feeds a changed content sometimes is not displayed red - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13956 minor; normal; MediaWiki: History/Diffs; (Wiki.Melancholie)
[10:47:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds tracking bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[10:47:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) In Atom/ RSS feeds a changed content sometimes is not displayed red - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13956  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[10:55:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[11:07:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable email notification on changes to user talk pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5220  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[11:14:15] <ex1stenz>	http://www.colectionarul.com/existenz1.html
[11:15:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add show updated marker preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13910  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[11:16:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add DOM friendly importScript and importStylesheet functions into wikibits .js - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13232  (10danny_b)
[11:22:44] <ex1stenz>	http://www.colectionarul.com/existenz1.html
[11:25:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) ajaxsearch. js - make number of letters before execution customizable - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12802  summary (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[11:25:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add show updated marker preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13910  (10webboy)
[11:47:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Global user style - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13953   +crosswiki (10danny_b)
[11:47:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) JavaScript (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114  (10danny_b)
[11:47:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) CSS (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12788  (10danny_b)
[11:51:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RSS, Atom, XML syndication feeds (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3646  summary (10danny_b)
[11:56:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable email notification on changes to user talk pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5220  +comment (10waldir)
[11:57:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Ability to watch all articles in a category - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1710  (10waldir)
[12:50:54] *djevrek 	off
[12:58:14] <av16ar>	hello everybody
[12:58:54] <Nikerabbit>	hi
[12:59:08] <av16ar>	I've read on the website about SVG that "Direct SVG display is not supported in MediaWiki by default."
[12:59:33] <av16ar>	is that means that there's another way to display them directly?
[13:00:47] <Dantman|FS>	A external program is normally used to render PNG versions of the SVG
[13:00:56] <Dantman|FS>	!svg
[13:00:56] --mwbot--	For more information regarding SVGs in MediaWiki, see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/SVG_image_support>.
[13:02:08] <av16ar>	yes but actually I wonder if there's a way to make MediaWiki displaying directly the SVG and so not to convert them
[13:02:43] <Dantman|FS>	No... and for good reason
[13:02:51] <av16ar>	yes because of IE...
[13:02:56] <av16ar>	that's it?
[13:02:57] <Dantman|FS>	Not just it
[13:03:05] <av16ar>	what else?
[13:03:20] <Dantman|FS>	SVG isn't a thing natively supported widely enough
[13:03:50] <Dantman|FS>	Sure, a number of major browsers support it... However there are still dozens of browsers people use which don't
[13:05:20] <av16ar>	ok, but if for my own private wiki I choose to display them directly because I know all the readers have SVG-capable browsers
[13:05:22] <Dantman|FS>	Not to mention, that any browser only renders SVGs about as well as ImageMagic can do it... And that's the shittiest program you can use to convert SVGs... Rendering SVGs with something like rsvg or imagemagic yeilds better results displayed
[13:06:53] <Dantman|FS>	Additionally, while browsers can display a nice full size SVG... There are lots of bugs with various browsers which pop up when you try and drop one into a img tag
[13:07:48] <LordAnubis>	Simetrical, you there man?
[13:09:29] <LordAnubis>	Hi guys, i have a problem, I am trying to edit a page via a bot, by using the action=submit and sending in my HTML parameters (edittoken, starttime, endtime, summary, textbox1..etc..), but i am getting the following error: http://rafb.net/p/wytrLN98.html
[13:09:35] <LordAnubis>	wut am i doing wrong
[13:10:00] <Werdna>	rough guess, no user-agent
[13:10:07] <LordAnubis>	i have the user-agent
[13:10:11] <LordAnubis>	and i can login and stuff
[13:10:20] <LordAnubis>	this was the problem yesterday :D
[13:10:20] <Dantman|FS>	Mangled edit token
[13:10:29] <LordAnubis>	ye, how is it mangled.
[13:10:30] <Dantman|FS>	Bad escaping, or double escaping?
[13:10:49] <Werdna>	LordAnubis: heh. I just remember that thing ALWAYS gets me
[13:10:54] <LordAnubis>	acc to the HTML i get back, : value="b29024bf6db6ef3ca64bfee29f157dbd+\"
[13:11:06] <av16ar>	well, I'm not against the use of rsvg or any other SVG converter, but in my case, my wiki is hosted by a public web host so I'm sure if I can set an SVG converter
[13:11:07] <LordAnubis>	Werdna, ye it took me a whole day figuring it out :D
[13:11:51] <LordAnubis>	Dantman|FS, so.. wuts "escaping".
[13:12:01] <Dantman|FS>	Backslash
[13:12:03] <LordAnubis>	Dantman|FS, you can see above the value of my edit token, i think this is the right format.
[13:12:24] <LordAnubis>	Dantman|FS, oh, so ur suggesting i should remove the backslash ? wut about the + sign?
[13:12:32] <Werdna>	no, DON'T remove them
[13:12:39] <LordAnubis>	Werdna, then?
[13:12:53] <Werdna>	are you sure you're url-encoding them?
[13:12:57] <Dantman|FS>	Nah... I mean that ' " and \ get backslash escaped
[13:13:15] <Werdna>	I think the problem is that the + is being interpreted as a space.
[13:13:18] <LordAnubis>	Werdna, no, and my next question will be "wuts url-encoding". I am a VB6 guy, and this is my first web app !
[13:13:30] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ Sounds like we have the issue
[13:13:32] <Dantman|FS>	heh
[13:13:33] <Werdna>	LordAnubis: how are you submitting.
[13:13:34] <LordAnubis>	:D
[13:13:38] <LordAnubis>	using winsock
[13:13:41] <LordAnubis>	a POST parameter
[13:13:42] <Werdna>	ah
[13:13:46] <Werdna>	yeah, you need to urlencode
[13:13:53] <LordAnubis>	how do i do that :)
[13:13:56] <Werdna>	dunno how to do that in VB6, don't wanna know :P
[13:13:57] <Dantman|FS>	Sockpuppets for Windoze! Gasp!
[13:14:08] *Dantman|FS 	should probably go to sleep
[13:14:08] <LordAnubis>	no i mean, wuts the layout of url encode
[13:14:09] <LordAnubis>	:D
[13:14:27] <LordAnubis>	Dantman|FS, its actually a copyvio detection bot, in VB6 :D , On WINDOWS (yayyy, )
[13:14:53] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ Normally it's best to build bots ontop of a framework instead of writing from scratch...
[13:14:58] <Dantman|FS>	Helps avoid issues like this
[13:15:15] <^demon>	Isn't there a .Net-based Mediawiki framework?
[13:15:24] <Dantman|FS>	And lets you focus on making the bot work, instead of the framework
[13:15:40] <LordAnubis>	Werdna, so after a quick google, i guess this is how my edittoken should be (url-encoded): b29024bf6db6ef3ca64bfee29f157dbd%2B%5C
[13:15:41] <Werdna>	^demon: I wrote one once.
[13:16:01] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS> so right now there is no way to display SVG with MediaWiki directly? (I looked the Extension Matrix, it doesn't seem someone wrote something allowing this kind of trick)
[13:16:09] <LordAnubis>	^demon: yes, but i am VB6 guy, i started from "Dim strUsername as String" :D
[13:16:13] <LordAnubis>	below scratch
[13:16:19] <Dantman|FS>	av16ar: Nope
[13:16:24] <av16ar>	oh :(
[13:16:44] <Jubei>	A few questions. How can I add automated text sections such as the stub section in wikipedia. i.e. with one <tag> to get an entire html formatted box with stuff that I wanna say in it.
[13:16:47] <^demon>	LordAnubis: I wrote a calculator in VB6 once. Never was a desktop programmer really...
[13:17:16] <Werdna>	Jubei: templates
[13:17:22] <Werdna>	!manual Templates
[13:17:22] --mwbot--	An introduction to using MediaWiki is at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Contents>, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Copying> for information about copying it to your own wiki. More technical information for MediaWiki administrators is at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Contents>. For an introduction on programming with MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_hub>.
[13:17:35] <Jubei>	Werdna: thanks!:)
[13:17:37] <Werdna>	!man Templates
[13:17:37] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Templates
[13:18:06] <Dantman|FS>	T_T Damn... I hate this part...
[13:18:21] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS> do you think it would be difficult for me to try to write an extension allowing the direct display of SVG (knowing I know how to write an extension for MediaWiki)
[13:18:44] <Dantman|FS>	av16ar: That kind of thing would likely require a hack to MediaWiki
[13:19:57] <Dantman|FS>	My programmer half is proding me to re-open up some documents, my browser, and ssh and continue making stuff... While what little bit of a sane side I have is telling me that the lighteaded feeling I have is a sign I should go to bed...
[13:20:09] <Dantman|FS>	heh
[13:20:25] <LordAnubis>	Werdna, Dantman|FS : IT WORKED, I just url-encoded the mofo, and it worked :D
[13:20:39] <LordAnubis>	thanks a lot for ur help
[13:21:53] <Dantman|FS>	Ok... time to stop staring at random places and get some sleep... ^_^ It is already 6:30AM... heh...
[13:22:16] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS> what you mean by hack? you mean it's impossible to do it with a simple extension?
[13:22:41] <Dantman|FS>	Ya... you're basically altering the very foundation to how MediaWiki handles images
[13:22:56] <Dantman|FS>	It's not something that would even be easy for a developer to do
[13:23:32] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS>ok thank you for your help, is it day or night in Vancouver?
[13:23:55] <Dantman|FS>	What? Vancouver? Stalker!!!!
[13:24:09] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS> ^^
[13:25:07] <Simetrical>	 -Dantman|FS- TIME Mon May 5 06:25:04 2008
[13:25:34] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ Well Lower Mainland... I'm not that far west though...
[13:26:33] <Dantman|FS>	You know... I turned 19 5 days ago... And I really haven't noticed it as a daily thing...
[13:27:45] <av16ar>	Dantman|FS> 1st May is your birthday?
[13:27:49] <Dantman|FS>	Yup
[13:28:27] <av16ar>	may is the best month to bear
[13:28:55] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ And if you want a twist... The doctors said I was supposed to be born on April 1st... But they got an april fools... rotfl...
[13:29:06] <av16ar>	lol!
[13:29:42] <Dantman|FS>	^_^ My first april fools joke came a month before I was born... heh
[13:29:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Global user style - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13953  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[13:30:00] <Dantman|FS>	That one never gets old
[13:30:05] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34241 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (GlobalFunctions.php MessageCache.php): 
[13:30:06] <CIA-50>	* wfLoadExtensionMessages() now accepts a language code as its second argument,
[13:30:06] <CIA-50>	rather than a boolean indicating whether or not to load all messages. This
[13:30:06] <CIA-50>	allows extension developers to be more discriminate with regards to which
[13:30:06] <CIA-50>	languages they load, avoiding the problem of loading lots of message
[13:30:08] <CIA-50>	localisations and fall backs not being merged in.
[13:30:10] <av16ar>	great, great
[13:31:21] <av16ar>	Dantman> I g2g, good night Mr Dantman (or good day, c'est comme on veut)
[13:35:55] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34242 10/trunk/extensions/Babel/ (8 files in 4 dirs): 
[13:35:55] <CIA-50>	* Rename ISO_639-1.php and ISO_639-3.php to ISO_639_1.php and ISO_639_3.php respectively, currently a mixture of capitalisation is used and it is bound to cause confusion in the future.
[13:35:55] <CIA-50>	* Add name() method to LanguageCodes class for retrieving the name of a language (currently only in English, and hard coded until a ISO 639-1 array with names is built).
[13:35:55] <CIA-50>	* Fix how languages that don't have messages or MediaWiki support are handled.
[14:06:51] <yoda_gh>	Hi there! I'm currently hacking on a MediaWiki skin with an own print css. Now I'm wondering whether this is the right place to discuss a possible patch...
[14:11:52] <Simetrical>	yoda_gh, sure.
[14:12:00] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34243 10/trunk/extensions/Makebot/Makebot.php: 
[14:12:00] <CIA-50>	* Add $wgSpecialPageGroups
[14:12:00] <CIA-50>	* Add version for extension credits
[14:12:00] <CIA-50>	* Kill whitespaces
[14:12:52] <yoda_gh>	Great, thx. So my problem was that I wanted to hack the CSS for printing, but only for a special skin (to not influence all users...).
[14:13:53] <^demon>	Very odd question, but has anyone ever heard of the SVN client being ported to z/OS?
[14:14:06] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34244 10/trunk/extensions/Renameuser/SpecialRenameuser.php: * Add $wgSpecialPageGroups
[14:14:26] <Nikerabbit>	I don't even know what is z/OS
[14:14:41] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34245 10/trunk/phase3/includes/GlobalFunctions.php: * Missed the extension name array key.
[14:15:02] <Simetrical>	^demon, z/OS is Unix-like, maybe it will just work?
[14:15:03] <yoda_gh>	However, it seems that code from Monobook is generally used there to create a link for common/commonPrint.css (hard-coded). So I created a patch w/o really understanding what I'm doint. :-)
[14:15:06] <MinuteElectron>	whoops
[14:16:16] <^demon>	Simetrical: I've looked into it. Seems to be some issues compiling. Bunch of unofficial patches floating around.
[14:17:43] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34246 10/trunk/phase3/includes/GlobalFunctions.php: * Wrong variable in last commit.
[14:18:45] <yoda_gh>	So if someone could have a senior look on http://rafb.net/p/2O93ln76.html, I'd be glad. :-D
[14:19:42] <yoda_gh>	(diff against MW 1.11, allow overriding of commonPrint.css in own styles)
[14:24:06] <Simetrical>	yoda_gh, adds an extra is_readable call, maybe not desirable.
[14:24:25] <Simetrical>	Instead, how about replacing it with a getPrintStyle() method or similar, which children can override if they like?
[14:28:54] <henke37>	I am having an argument, what is best, a namespace or stuffing loads of pages as subpages to a master page?
[14:29:24] <yoda_gh>	Simetrical: Sure, why not. But where should this method be placed? In MonoBookTemplate, QuickTemplate, ...?
[14:31:05] <yoda_gh>	So just that I get you right: the idea would be to write a function getPrintStyle() which just returns the static string "common/commonPrint.css" and in my own skin, I'd then override it with my own static string?
[14:31:42] <Simetrical>	I guess either SkinTemplate or QuickTemplate.
[14:31:45] <Simetrical>	QuickTemplate, maybe.
[14:31:51] <Simetrical>	I hate how Monobook skins are set up.  :(
[14:32:00] <Simetrical>	yoda_gh, yes, basically.
[14:33:13] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34247 10/trunk/phase3/languages/Language.php: * Add exception if magicWords array is empty.
[14:34:37] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Disable local uploads at io.wiktionary.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (malafaya)
[14:35:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Disable local uploads at io.wiktionary.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957   +shell (10raimond.spekking)
[14:40:19] <PierreW>	someone can help me in an issue that is: somehow, even when everything is set to UFT-8, when sending forms it is not saving entities correctly. Somethings wrong, also in the title {{SITENAME}} is not getting replaced. Anyone knows similar problems/fixes?
[14:41:34] <yoda_gh>	Simetrical: Ok, sounds easy. I can prepare an updated patch. I assume it should be best based upon http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/phase3, right? Should I again post it here or simply drop it to BugZ?
[14:41:51] <Simetrical>	yoda_gh, posting it here is quicker.
[14:50:02] <bit`>	hello
[14:50:45] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34248 10/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Localisation updates German
[14:50:50] <bit`>	I need help with css's "clear"
[14:50:57] <bit`>	http://cookiepedia.nfshost.com/index.php/Main_Page
[14:51:14] <bit`>	how do I get that edit back to where it should be
[14:51:41] <yoda_gh>	Simetrical: Great. I'll come back as soon as I've finished the patch. Thx for the meantime!
[14:52:00] <Jelte>	bit`: <div style="clear: both;"></div>
[14:52:11] <bit`>	Jelte, I want to keep the list where it is
[14:52:29] <PierreW>	short: what can be the issue that makes mediawiki replace ���� and such after submitting forms with ????? ?
[14:52:31] <bit`>	that will move it below
[14:53:48] <Jelte>	bit`: What do you want exactly, or is it OK now?
[14:54:29] <bit`>	Jelte, I want to keep the design just the way it is, except that edit should be in the same line as the title "Existing articles"
[14:55:04] <Jelte>	bit`: That's impossible at the moment.
[14:55:34] <bit`>	what
[14:56:04] <bit`>	there has to be something... forget wiki, I'll do it with html. but how
[14:58:26] <Jelte>	bit`: See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1629 . It's a rendering issue with Mozilla browsers (like Firefox). You could disable the [edit] links with __NOEDITSECTION__ and create your own link.
[14:58:29] <sknh>	Hi. Can anyone help me out with lucene-search?
[14:59:05] <rainman-sr>	sknh, shoot
[14:59:30] <sknh>	rainman-sr: let me paste it... give me a min
[15:00:29] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34249 10/trunk/phase3/includes/MessageCache.php: * Use wfLoadExtensionMessages() in MessageCache::loadAllMessages() instead of MessageCache::loadMessagesFile().
[15:00:35] <rainman-sr>	ok, don't paste onto the channel, but you probably know that... 
[15:01:17] <bit`>	ok, thanks Jelte
[15:01:55] <sknh>	http://rafb.net/p/DIdFFe24.html
[15:02:02] <Nikerabbit>	Raymond_: did you add or remove bom?
[15:02:22] <sknh>	I am trying to create the index but it is not creating any thing
[15:03:08] <pdani>	hi
[15:03:14] *Raymond_ 	checks
[15:03:31] <rainman-sr>	sknh: can you also paste lsearch.conf and lsearch-global.conf ?
[15:03:33] <pdani>	if i have an extension, which echos out some debug information, where and how can i read these lines?
[15:03:47] <pdani>	(it's the LdapAuthentication.php extension)
[15:03:55] <CIA-50>	03minuteelectron * r34250 10/trunk/phase3/includes/MessageCache.php: 
[15:03:55] <CIA-50>	* $name instead of $file.
[15:03:55] <CIA-50>	* Remove unnecessary if.
[15:04:02] <sknh>	rainman-sr: yep doing that... give me one more min
[15:04:10] <Raymond_>	Nikerabbit: added by accident :(
[15:04:15] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34251 10/trunk/extensions/AbsenteeLandlord/AbsenteeLandlord.i18n.php: Kill BOM
[15:05:38] <sknh>	http://rafb.net/p/GQlGMX97.html
[15:05:54] <sknh>	rainman-sr: config files here http://rafb.net/p/GQlGMX97.html
[15:06:10] <rainman-sr>	btw, that should be java -cp and not java -jar
[15:06:23] <sknh>	rainman-sr: oh... I guess that's the problem
[15:07:17] <rainman-sr>	Indexes.path=file:/home/nazeer/lucene-search-2/indexes <- no file: here
[15:07:39] <rainman-sr>	<default> : /home/nazeer/lucene-search-2/indexes <- this is rsync path, you prolly don't need it
[15:10:00] <sknh>	rainman-sr: no file there
[15:11:17] <rainman-sr>	no, i mean, it should be Indexes.path=/home/nazeer/lucene-search-2/indexes
[15:21:37] <gernot>	Simetrical, about the custom print.css stuff again: I just looked into QuickTemplate and fount that it doesn't include any function which actually generates some content while SkinTemplate does a lot of it.
[15:23:30] <Simetrical>	gernot, yeah, I vaguely recall that.  I've never looked at QuickTemplate.
[15:23:46] <gernot>	So I wonder whether it wouldn't be more inline with the current design to duplicate something like SkinTemplate::buildNavUrls()  and use something like $tpl->set('printcss') for it.
[15:23:49] <Simetrical>	gernot, I have to go now.  You can file a bug and CC me to it, Simetrical+wikibugs@gmail.com, I'll see about committing any patches you might have.
[15:24:03] <Simetrical>	That sounds good, though, although "current design" is atrocious.  :)
[15:24:19] <gernot>	Well, I don't feel like refactoring the current design yet. :-)
[15:24:29] <gernot>	Thanks for your help so far, I'll file the bug then!
[15:26:18] <Jelte>	Could someone take a look at (the patch for) bug 13910? The current CSS/JS hack on nlwiki is very buggy. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13910
[15:29:49] <sknh>	java.lang.OutOfMemoryError -- http://rafb.net/p/9QRiNy82.html
[15:30:06] <sknh>	can anyone help me out with this?
[15:33:06] <rainman-sr>	sknh, (6,405.8/sec) <- this seems too fast for me, given that you're using default params, also it may take up to 1gb of ram
[15:33:34] <rainman-sr>	rebuilding en.wp should be at least 5-6h
[15:36:50] <rainman-sr>	actually, for standalone en.wp it might take more than 1-1.5gb of ram
[15:38:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Correcting edit summaries (if own, last, & recent) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937  (10huji.huji)
[15:39:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to watch the user pages of users you block - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950  (10huji.huji)
[15:47:39] <faceface>	dear beautiful MW developers, please take a moment to look here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ModSecurity - I am not good at documentation
[15:47:51] <faceface>	I wanted to at least get something on mediawiki about ModSecurity
[15:47:59] <thabor>	mediawiki
[15:48:07] <faceface>	a recent upgrade has been causing us headaches
[15:48:29] <thabor>	mediawiki
[15:48:37] <faceface>	thabor: good. yes.
[15:48:44] <thabor>	why?
[15:48:48] <faceface>	what?
[15:49:00] <thabor>	why "what"?
[15:49:14] <faceface>	thabor: are you suffereing existentialist angst?
[15:49:18] <thabor>	yes
[15:49:21] <faceface>	I see
[15:49:22] <thabor>	you?
[15:49:26] <faceface>	not lately
[15:49:54] <thabor>	is this the reason why you have two faces?
[15:50:00] <faceface>	anyway, I think that page should at least be in some categories... any 'documentors' around here
[15:50:19] <faceface>	No, I need one face to face, and another face to keep face
[15:50:25] <faceface>	(about face)
[15:50:35] <faceface>	I don't know. Don't ask me
[15:50:53] <thabor>	why do you ask yourself
[15:51:37] <faceface>	thabor, please answer the following: what is xxx + 0000?
[15:52:01] <thabor>	reykjavik
[15:52:05] <faceface>	clsoe
[15:53:09] <Nikerabbit>	mau
[15:53:18] <thabor>	why do you ask?
[15:53:42] <faceface>	hello Nikerabbit. The answer I was looking for is 7. Or ....... Get it?
[15:53:48] <faceface>	thabor: to see if you are robotic
[15:54:12] <thabor>	why should I be, for god's sake
[15:54:15] <Nikerabbit>	faceface: you can't mix pears and apples
[15:54:31] <faceface>	Nikerabbit: you can if your human. Its called a fruit pie
[15:54:43] <faceface>	thabor: you tell me!
[15:55:11] <thabor>	I can't tell you
[15:55:17] <thabor>	what do you want to kno
[15:55:19] <thabor>	w
[15:55:34] <faceface>	thabor: what is ii + jjj?
[15:55:51] <thabor>	shut up
[15:55:54] <faceface>	OK
[15:56:01] <PierreW>	make love, not war.
[15:57:12] <Nikerabbit>	make sex
[15:57:25] <Fire>	Hey. Is there a possibility to export not only one article, but a bunch of similar articles? 
[15:57:57] <thabor>	I don't want to answer your questions
[15:58:20] <Nikerabbit>	Fire: if you list them all
[15:59:02] <Fire>	How dou mean it, Nike? Or.. By doing it what way?
[15:59:35] <Nikerabbit>	there is nothing to get a list of similar pages automatically if that is what you want
[16:00:08] <thabor>	poor nikerabbit
[16:01:02] <faceface>	Fire: unless they share a category
[16:01:04] <Fire>	What's up with you, thabor?
[16:01:08] <faceface>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ModSecurity :D
[16:01:47] <thabor>	so, faceface: why do you ask those silly questions?
[16:02:26] <Nikerabbit>	please stop mucking around
[16:03:09] <thabor>	I wasn't talking to you, kid
[16:04:23] <thabor>	faceface: I asked you something
[16:05:58] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Moved Wiki to New Server- I now have strange errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13958 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Installation; (nbrabham)
[16:06:00] <AaronSchulz>	kid?
[16:06:27] <thabor>	faceface?
[16:08:51] <CIA-50>	03purodha * r34252 10/USERINFO/purodha: More data.
[16:08:56] <thabor>	faceface?
[16:09:10] <Fire>	Stop mucking around
[16:10:04] <thabor>	quiet
[16:10:24] <thabor>	faceface?
[16:11:01] <Fire>	thabor: One last time: Stop.
[16:11:48] <thabor>	why don't you stop interfering?
[16:12:42] <Fire>	Because you have two options: Speak to him in a private, or just leave him alone, if he chooses not to answer you.
[16:12:50] <thabor>	faceface?
[16:13:37] <MinuteElectron>	thabor: Please be quiet, you're being rude and disruptive to the channel.  Ask him in private if it is really urgent, or simple ask your question to him directly rather than waiting for a response.
[16:13:53] <thabor>	faceface?
[16:13:54] <Fire>	Thank you, Minute.
[16:14:33] <MinuteElectron>	Fire: Oh, wow; you're an op.
[16:14:54] <Nikerabbit>	oh noes, the secret has been lost :o
[16:15:18] <VasilievVV>	[19:10:02] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.]: 8   30    Fire                                4m 49s                 
[16:15:38] <VasilievVV>	That means he could probably give it out to some other devels :)
[16:15:55] <MinuteElectron>	hehe
[16:16:08] <Nikerabbit>	hmm ipv6... yam
[16:16:58] <Fire>	I notice that Colloquy is the worst IRC-client I ever used in my life.
[16:17:02] <Fire>	Even irssi is better.
[16:17:11] <MinuteElectron>	:O
[16:17:14] <Nikerabbit>	what?!
[16:17:15] *MinuteElectron 	<3 irssi.
[16:17:19] <Nikerabbit>	irssi is *the* best
[16:17:25] <MinuteElectron>	:D
[16:17:33] <Nikerabbit>	even though I liked Xircon, I learned scripting that way
[16:18:34] <Fire>	Nike: heh. I have no other possibility than to use it.. At our university, the ports for IRC are blocked.
[16:19:07] <Nikerabbit>	heh, ssh+shell+irssi then :)
[16:19:12] <Fire>	yeah :D
[16:19:45] <Fire>	faceface?
[16:19:48] <Nifi>	or two of them, *cough*
[16:20:00] <Nifi>	faceface left already
[16:20:28] <Fire>	I wasn't talking to you, kid
[16:20:53] <Nikerabbit>	Fire: kid?
[16:21:03] <Fire>	:-) jk
[16:21:20] <Nifi>	I'm quite old for being a kid :<
[16:24:52] <smallfoot->	can you make the search smarter, like I type "Azurues" it should say "Did you mean Azureus?"
[16:24:58] <smallfoot->	often i want search something, i dont know how its spelled
[16:25:02] <smallfoot->	it got long word :(
[16:26:10] <Nikerabbit>	isn't it disabled for performance reasons currently?
[16:26:55] <VasilievVV>	Fire: may you give me +10 here?
[16:27:41] <Fire>	Vasi: I'd like to, but isn't there a principal person who's in charge with irc-channels?
[16:28:21] <Nikerabbit>	the access list here is quite... uhm... interesting ;)
[16:28:44] <Fire>	Let me take a look (Colloquy doesn't even have a status window..)
[16:29:35] <Nikerabbit>	and yeah would be nice if there would be some active people, to not to need to hunt when they are needed
[16:30:36] <Fire>	Are there this much people who need to be kicked or baned, as you say? 
[16:31:01] <VasilievVV>	Yes, there are trolls sometimes
[16:31:08] <Fire>	I mean, I'd understand that for #wp. But #mw? Isn't it quiet? 
[16:31:29] <Nikerabbit>	couple a week I'd say
[16:31:34] <VasilievVV>	Trolls are everywhere :)
[16:32:14] <Nikerabbit>	I have three kicks in my backlog (quite long)
[16:34:13] <sknh>	rainman-sr: r u still there?
[16:34:52] <sknh>	rainman-sr: I have 1GB of ram.... but still I get out of memory
[16:34:57] <sknh>	rainman-sr: what can I do?
[16:38:32] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Moved Wiki to New Server- I now have strange errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13958  +comment (10pathoschild)
[16:39:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Moved Wiki to New Server- I now have strange errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13958  (10pathoschild)
[16:46:00] <Fire>	re
[16:48:39] <rainman-sr>	sknh, unfortunately not much.. :( you can wait for new release which has a different (slower) rebuild scheme that doesn't consume so much memory
[16:49:19] <Fire>	Hello brion
[16:49:27] <VasilievVV>	hello brion
[16:49:30] <brion>	wazzap
[16:49:38] <Fire>	brion, long time no see :)
[16:50:01] <brion>	Fire back from the dead?!
[16:50:35] <Fire>	Hmm.. Yes. :-)
[16:51:34] <Fire>	My college decided to use a wiki.. So I helped them with the dev-stuff and now, I'm slowly beginning to miss the time here...
[16:53:22] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[16:53:38] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[16:53:41] <brion>	aww
[16:54:32] <Fire>	Cute story, eh? 
[16:55:18] <Fire>	Can I open a priv. window to ask you a few question about channel-accesses, bri?
[16:58:45] <CIA-50>	03shinjiman * r34253 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (4 files): Localisation updates Cantonese, Chinese and Old/Late Time Chinese
[16:59:05] <Nikerabbit>	awww
[16:59:30] *Nikerabbit 	read "Localisation updates German" first and wondered when shinjiman learned it :o
[16:59:37] <Raymond_>	lol
[17:00:02] <AaronSchulz>	Raymond_: can you look at flaggedrevs .de loc?
[17:00:12] <AaronSchulz>	prolly missing a few new things
[17:00:32] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: I have updated it today. 2 hours ago
[17:00:38] <AaronSchulz>	sweet
[17:00:44] <Raymond_>	yeah :)
[17:00:52] <Nikerabbit>	AaronSchulz: is it going to be enabled per wiki basis btw?
[17:01:17] <Raymond_>	Nikerabbit: yes. it needs community consensous
[17:01:32] *AaronSchulz 	pokes brion
[17:01:51] <Nikerabbit>	Raymond_: yeah, I don't mind about the non-consensus-getting communites :o
[17:02:49] <Jubei>	hello. can somebody help on configuring mediawiki to create svg thumbnails? I have uploaded an .svg file but ti cannot display it
[17:03:14] <Jubei>	comes up with ".../bin/ulimit4.sh: line 4: convert: command not found"
[17:03:30] <Jubei>	I am pretty positive that my host has ImageMagick enabled
[17:03:51] <Jubei>	and I set $wgFileExtensions[] = 'svg';
[17:03:51] <Jubei>	$wgSVGConverter = 'ImageMagick';
[17:04:51] <AaronSchulz>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/Renameuser/SpecialRenameuser.php?r1=33395&r2=34244&sortby=date
[17:04:56] <AaronSchulz>	Raymond_: hmm
[17:05:00] <AaronSchulz>	that looks kind of odd
[17:05:15] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: why?
[17:05:24] <AaronSchulz>	go to Special:SpecialPages
[17:05:44] <Raymond_>	yes
[17:05:50] <AaronSchulz>	User permissions
[17:05:51] <AaronSchulz>	    * Block user  * Make a user into a sysop * User rights management
[17:05:53] <AaronSchulz>	Users and rights
[17:05:54] <AaronSchulz>	    * Rename user
[17:06:23] <Raymond_>	looks fine for me
[17:06:23] <AaronSchulz>	either put them all under the latter or have it separate
[17:07:00] <AaronSchulz>	the wording is ugly
[17:07:29] <Raymond_>	hmmm. not in German :o
[17:08:12] <Jubei>	ok I just realised that my server has GD library instead of ImageMagick. can i use it in SVGConverters?
[17:12:14] <CIA-50>	03aaron * r34254 10/trunk/extensions/ (Makebot/Makebot.php Makesysop/SpecialMakesysop.php): Put under 'users'
[17:14:26] <CIA-50>	03aaron * r34255 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove 'permission' header
[17:15:04] <AaronSchulz>	ok, better
[17:17:58] <CIA-50>	03aaron * r34256 10/trunk/extensions/ (2 files in 2 dirs): $wgSpecialPageGroups
[17:22:30] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34257 10/trunk/extensions/NewUserMessage/NewUserMessage.php: Add configuration variable $wgNewUserMessageEditor to enable setting the editing user. 'Admin' by default. If $wgNewUserMessageEditor does not exist, the new user will appear to have made the edit himself.
[17:26:15] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Wikimedia redirect tables are missing many entries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10931  +comment (10webboy)
[17:32:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) False positives on Special:DoubleRedirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13808  +comment (10webboy)
[17:35:03] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34258 10/trunk/extensions/DeletedContributions/DeletedContributions_body.php: Add a label for the input field
[17:37:04] <AaronSchulz>	Raymond_: I think there are some from ID bugs
[17:37:07] <AaronSchulz>	for checkuser and stuff
[17:37:11] <AaronSchulz>	easy pickin ;)
[17:38:15] <[killian]>	Hi 
[17:38:59] *Jack_Phoenix 	waves to ialex :-)
[17:39:48] <Nikerabbit>	hi
[17:39:53] <ialex>	hi Jack_Phoenix :)
[17:40:00] <Jack_Phoenix>	rar
[17:40:03] <ialex>	hello Nikerabbit
[17:40:23] <[killian]>	Can i ask a question here?
[17:41:39] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34259 10/trunk/extensions/UserMerge/UserMerge.php: $wgSpecialPageGroups
[17:41:52] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34260 10/trunk/extensions/DeletedContributions/SpecialDeletedContributions.php: Remove funny comment
[17:42:06] <siebrand>	[killian]: yes
[17:43:04] <mib_57fn5u>	does anyone know why diff is not a standard action like view and edit?  is it just historical?
[17:43:21] <[killian]>	How i can paste javascript inside mediawiki (with interpretation) ?
[17:43:42] <brion>	mib_57fn5u: probably mainly historical, yes
[17:43:52] <brion>	all very mysterious :D
[17:43:58] <[killian]>	like --> <script type="text/javascript" src=........
[17:44:01] <mib_57fn5u>	ok, thanks
[17:44:02] <ialex>	[killian]: MediaWiki:Common.js
[17:44:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Problem with <ref> and [[xxx (yyy)|]] - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13959 minor; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Cite; (nvervelle)
[17:44:22] <[killian]>	ialex, Thank you 
[17:44:46] <ialex>	[killian]: simply enter the javascript without <script> tag
[17:45:23] <[killian]>	OMG i was looking something mor hardest than this xD
[17:45:32] <[killian]>	more*
[17:46:39] <ialex>	you can use documen.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="..."<
[17:46:43] <ialex>	oops
[17:46:57] <ialex>	documen.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="..."></script>') ;)
[17:47:04] <ialex>	+t
[17:47:58] <[killian]>	Thanks a lot
[17:58:24] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Problem with <ref> and [[xxx (yyy)|]] - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13959  +comment (10brion)
[17:58:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Pre-save transform skips extensions using wikitext (gallery, references, pipe trick, subst, signatures) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2700  +comment (10brion)
[18:01:00] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34261 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (GlobalFunctions.php Parser.php Parser_OldPP.php): Remove some emotional outbursts
[18:01:35] <Raymond_>	cleaning day?
[18:02:22] <CIA-50>	03rotem * r34262 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesHe.php: Update.
[18:03:42] <Nikerabbit>	:OO
[18:03:44] <Nikerabbit>	hi Raymond_
[18:05:01] <CIA-50>	03rotem * r34263 10/trunk/phase3/includes/User.php: Remove emailconfirmed group from comment.
[18:07:24] <Fire>	flyingparchment?
[18:07:39] <flyingparchment>	what?
[18:07:42] <tgr>	hi
[18:07:44] <CIA-50>	03rotem * r34264 10/trunk/extensions/Resign/SpecialResign.php: Use the new wgImplicitGroups config variable.
[18:08:01] <tgr>	is it possible to upgrade from 1.10 to 1.12 directly?
[18:08:13] <AaronSchulz>	ialex?
[18:08:28] <Fire>	flying: Why do you still keep your op? You don't need it though.
[18:08:30] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: yes
[18:08:33] <AaronSchulz>	ialex: hi
[18:08:37] *AaronSchulz 	chuckles
[18:08:45] <flyingparchment>	Fire: why shouldn't i?
[18:08:54] <ialex>	hello AaronSchulz, what's up ? :)
[18:08:59] <AaronSchulz>	actually, River should keep it
[18:09:24] <AaronSchulz>	otherwise some annoying trolls would have been allowed to fester
[18:09:24] <Jelte>	tgr: yes
[18:10:19] <Fire>	Aaron: I am not saying he shouldn't, just wondering, I mean i some troll enters, he can still give access to himself.
[18:10:39] <AaronSchulz>	I keep seeing "he", then "she"
[18:10:42] <AaronSchulz>	wtf is the deal?
[18:10:46] <flyingparchment>	what would be the point of spending effort to deop and reop myself all the time?
[18:11:03] <Jack_Phoenix>	yay for ops :)
[18:12:13] <Fire>	To you two - I don't want to discredit anyone! - Some people said that from time to time, there are trolls, but not on a day-to-day basis.
[18:19:07] <Fire>	Still, your decision fparch
[18:31:17] <Nikerabbit>	no ops = trolls get confused and show themselves
[18:31:28] <Nikerabbit>	but doesn't matter here so much
[18:31:40] <Fire>	no ops = philosophy of freenode
[18:53:53] <whatever86>	hi guys
[18:54:05] <whatever86>	is there any way i can upload really large files?
[18:57:28] <Alex_Sm>	hmm... section linking seems to be broken a bit if you use templates, like {{user}}
[18:57:33] <AaronSchulz>	how large?
[18:57:46] <whatever86>	a few 100mb
[18:57:52] <whatever86>	i amrunning mediawiki on my own computer
[18:57:58] <AaronSchulz>	well, you can change php.ini
[18:58:03] <AaronSchulz>	though that is pretty high ;)
[18:58:17] <whatever86>	will editing php.ini work immeidately
[18:58:24] <AaronSchulz>	restart apache afterwards
[18:58:24] <whatever86>	cos i remeber trying a few weeks ago
[18:58:29] <whatever86>	and i had a blank page
[18:58:53] <AaronSchulz>	also, check the max execution time
[18:59:01] <AaronSchulz>	if it is taking forever, it may time out
[18:59:16] <whatever86>	hmmm..would it be too much if i ask what specifically i have to change in php.ini?
[18:59:50] <AaronSchulz>	upload_max_filesize
[19:01:19] <whatever86>	any more?
[19:04:09] <AaronSchulz>	prolly not
[19:08:18] <whatever86>	nah, it didn't work
[19:08:58] *brion-away 	lunchies!
[19:10:13] <whatever86>	it went back to the upload page after a while
[19:28:07] <CIA-50>	03ialex * r34265 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (5 files): Added a stylesheet for tables and descriptions at the top of it.
[19:34:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Semantic inline query by property that has non-english name returns nothing . - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13960 normal; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (4d876b82)
[19:39:43] <CIA-50>	03ialex * r34266 10/trunk/phase3/includes/AjaxDispatcher.php: Stop profiling before ending the function
[19:42:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Use Preprocessor_Hash by default to avoid missing DOM module errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13770  (10innocentkiller)
[19:44:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Use Preprocessor_Hash by default to avoid missing DOM module errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13770   +need-review +patch (10innocentkiller)
[19:47:55] <CIA-50>	03vasilievvv * r34267 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
[19:47:55] <CIA-50>	Show image links on Special:WhatLinksHere:
[19:47:55] <CIA-50>	* It has paging
[19:47:55] <CIA-50>	* It handles redirects
[19:51:09] <Nikerabbit>	meow
[19:52:14] <^demon>	Woof?
[19:52:49] <Splarka>	VasilievVV: any way to differentiate #ifexist links in Whatlinkshere, too? ^_^
[19:53:11] <VasilievVV>	Nope
[19:53:19] <Splarka>	darn
[19:53:41] <VasilievVV>	They aren't marked with some special marker :(
[19:53:47] *ialex 	stabs vasilievvv: XML Parsing Error: not well-formed: <li><a href="/phase3/index.php?title=Special:Pages_li%C3%A9es&hidelinks=1&hidetrans=1&target=
[19:54:33] *Splarka 	waits for the glorious day when interlanguage links show on what links here
[19:54:57] <ialex>	Splarka: indefinite future ? :P
[19:55:05] <ialex>	hello domas
[19:55:11] <VasilievVV>	ah..\
[19:55:19] <Nikerabbit>	örks
[19:55:23] <Splarka>	in(de)?finite future
[19:55:31] <Nikerabbit>	generating html by hand = bad clearly :o
[19:55:52] <ialex>	Splarka: maybe, yes ^^
[19:56:43] *Splarka 	also again whines that interwiki links aren't in a page's properties, while internal, interlang, template, image, external etc are
[19:56:47] <CIA-50>	03vasilievvv * r34268 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ImagePage.php: Fix XHTML per ialex
[19:56:56] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[19:57:18] <Nikerabbit>	VasilievVV: btw, did you hate or not working with FormOptions? :o
[19:57:37] <VasilievVV>	Do I?
[19:57:41] <ialex>	VasilievVV: ok now :)
[19:57:53] *Splarka 	also grumbles that meta=siteinfo&siprop=interwikimap does not tell you which are interlanguage links
[19:57:54] <Raymond_>	Notice: Undefined index: ProofreadPage in F:\xampp\htdocs\wiki_de\includes\GlobalFunctions.php on line 2495
[19:57:56] <Raymond_>	Fatal error: MessageCache::require() [function.require]: Failed opening required '' (include_path='F:\xampp\htdocs\wiki_de;F:\xampp\htdocs\wiki_de/includes;F:\xampp\htdocs\wiki_de/languages;.;F:\xampp\php\pear\') in F:\xampp\htdocs\wiki_de\includes\MessageCache.php on line 721
[19:58:00] <Raymond_>	??ß
[19:58:08] <ialex>	hehe
[19:58:10] <Nikerabbit>	Raymond_: updated all code?
[19:58:29] <Raymond_>	Nikerabbit: yes.
[19:58:37] <Nikerabbit>	there was broken revisions until it was fixed... weird
[19:59:06] <Raymond_>	ouch
[19:59:23] <Raymond_>	Nikerabbit: I missed ProofreadPage to svn up *hides*
[20:00:24] *ialex 	re-stabs VasilievVV: &lt;whatlinkshere-hideimages&gt;, you didn't commited new messages ;)
[20:00:28] <Raymond_>	# Hauptseite (&lt;isimage&gt;) (← Links)
[20:00:33] <Raymond_>	hehe
[20:00:35] <Nikerabbit>	:D
[20:01:06] <ialex>	-ed
[20:01:38] <Nikerabbit>	tamale? :OO
[20:01:54] <brion-tamale>	¡hoy es cinco de mayo!
[20:02:06] <CIA-50>	03vasilievvv * r34269 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: Maybe it's better not to commit new features at 23:00?
[20:02:16] <ialex>	:D
[20:02:27] *brion-tamale 	is not brion-tequila however, as tequila at the office has not always turned out well
[20:02:31] <Nikerabbit>	VasilievVV: wtf, are we on the same timexone :o
[20:03:06] <VasilievVV>	I'm usually in UTC+3(+4 on DST), but I'm on break in Israel
[20:03:25] <Nikerabbit>	ok
[20:03:27] <Nikerabbit>	almost then
[20:05:14] <CIA-50>	03ialex * r34270 10/trunk/phase3/ (2 files in 2 dirs): And messages.inc ? ;)
[20:17:55] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) de:Wikipedia:Spam-Blacklist-Log on robots.txt - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13961 major; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (DaB.)
[20:50:14] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Disable new page creation by anonymous users - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13962 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (cbass)
[20:50:54] <CIA-50>	03brion * r34271 10/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
[20:50:54] <CIA-50>	Revert r34260, r34261. Comments add flavor to the source code!
[20:50:54] <CIA-50>	Remember that expletives aren't used just for fun; they indicate the severity of the problem that had to be worked around.
[20:51:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Disable new page creation by anonymous users at wikimania2008 wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13962  summary (10brion)
[20:52:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to watch the user pages of users you block - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[20:52:27] <siebrand>	brion: tsk. tsk...
[21:06:38] <AlexC_>	hey all
[21:06:48] <AlexC_>	is it possible to use MySQLi with Mediawiki?
[21:07:18] <MinuteElectron>	no
[21:07:23] <AlexC_>	hum, fail
[21:07:23] <MinuteElectron>	why would you want to?
[21:07:31] <MinuteElectron>	surely if you had mysqli you would have mysql?
[21:07:37] <AlexC_>	because it is a much better extension compared to the older MySQL one,
[21:07:40] <AlexC_>	MinuteElectron, not at all
[21:07:44] <MinuteElectron>	well
[21:08:22] <MinuteElectron>	it may be a better extension, but it's a chore converting to mysqli from mysql and there isn't much benefit when we already have a pretty decent mysql class.
[21:08:47] <AlexC_>	it is not a chore at all =)
[21:09:08] <MinuteElectron>	when you have such a big codebase, it is; anyway, it shouldn't really affect the end-user.
[21:09:10] <AlexC_>	anyway, I'll have to work something out with this now - thanks for the help
[21:26:38] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34272 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: image -> file...
[21:32:04] <matthew_>	For two weeks, I have not been able to figure out how to make our wiki show images..
[21:33:00] <Duesentrieb>	!images | matthew_
[21:33:00] --mwbot--	matthew_: For instructions to use images in MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images>. For more technical details about image uploads, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Image_Administration> and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads>. Note that uploads are disabled per default (see !uploads).
[21:34:34] <matthew_>	I can upload them....  but it doesn't show them back..
[21:34:45] <matthew_>	This is after upgrading from 1.5.6 to 1.12.0
[21:35:04] <matthew_>	I had to rewrite Localsettings.php for multiple wikis.
[21:35:21] <matthew_>	Anything look wrong with this:  $wgUploadDirectory = "/var/www/devapps/wiki/mediawiki-1.12.0/files/Wiki/{$wsuCurrentWiki}/images";
[21:36:13] <matthew_>	What does mediawiki use to locate its images for displaying on pages?  
[21:36:17] <matthew_>	and/or where in the code?
[21:37:17] <MinuteElectron>	matthew_: Have you set $wgUploadPath to a valid directory?
[21:37:40] <Duesentrieb>	a valid web path, rather
[21:37:51] <MinuteElectron>	yeah
[21:37:56] <Duesentrieb>	check the url's in the src attribute you get in the generated html. try to load that url directly.
[21:37:57] <matthew_>	MinuteElectron: $wgUploadPath = "/resources/files/Wiki/{$wsuCurrentWiki}/images";
[21:38:15] <MinuteElectron>	and is that valid?
[21:38:19] <Duesentrieb>	also... $wsuCurrentWiki smells of a complex custom setup (wiki farm, anyone?)
[21:38:55] <Duesentrieb>	matthew_: check the urls, as i told you, please.
[21:39:14] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: $wsuCurrentWiki is just the current wiki..  that part I made so I know it's correct
[21:40:26] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: It does upload images into there... just doesn't show them afterwards..  I think I've read all that.. but I am looking through it again now.
[21:40:50] <Duesentrieb>	again: check the url you get for arendered image thumbnail in the end
[21:41:14] <Duesentrieb>	also, go to an image description page and click the full-res link. check if that works.
[21:42:05] <Splarka>	might also try Special:Filepath and thumb.php
[21:42:30] <Duesentrieb>	should get you the same url
[21:42:49] <Duesentrieb>	well, Filepath, anyway. thumb.php is different
[21:42:54] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: The url I get for a thumbnail is as follows (clicking on it gives me a dialog to upload):  /ctltwiki/resources/index.php?title=Special:Upload&amp;wpDestFile=VLAN_Basics_1.gif
[21:43:34] <Duesentrieb>	o_O
[21:43:44] <matthew_>	If i upload one.. it's still not there..  (well, it does put it in the filesystem, but not shown on the wiki)
[21:43:49] <Duesentrieb>	uh... you get that where, exactly? in a src attribute of an img tag?
[21:44:11] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: href=
[21:44:15] <matthew_>	in the page source
[21:44:35] <Duesentrieb>	so, no img tag is created at all? i.e. you don't get a broken thumbnail, but a "missing image" link?
[21:44:52] <arcanez>	why would I get 'You must log in to view other pages.' if my $wgAuth extension has function authenticate ($username, $password) { return true; } ?
[21:45:24] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: doesn't appear to have any image tag, no..
[21:45:47] <Splarka>	(Dues: right, different failure modes too... worth trying maybe)
[21:46:13] <Duesentrieb>	arcanez: because authentication and authorization are different things? the message may actually be misleading. it really means that you don't have permiossion to see the page -- not being logged in is usually, but not necessarily, the cause.
[21:46:54] <Duesentrieb>	matthew_: see if an enty is generated for that image in the image table. check if an image description page is created, and if an upload history is shown there.
[21:47:16] <arcanez>	Duesentrieb, I'm assuming '$wgGroupPermissions['*']['read']            = false;' is the cause.. how can I authorize users in my extension
[21:47:57] <Duesentrieb>	by assigning groups that have the required permissioins
[21:47:59] <Duesentrieb>	!rights
[21:47:59] --mwbot--	For information on customizing user access, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:User_rights >. For common examples of restricting access using both rights and extensions, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access >.
[21:48:13] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: I am looking in the database now..
[21:48:58] <arcanez>	Duesentrieb, thanks
[21:49:07] <Duesentrieb>	np
[21:50:23] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: the image is certainly in the image table.. 
[21:50:38] <matthew_>	Let me see where upload history might be kept..
[21:50:49] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34273 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (147 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-05-05 23:21 CEST)
[21:50:59] <Duesentrieb>	look if it's *shown* on the description page
[21:51:23] <Duesentrieb>	hm... are you using a central image repository, or local uploads?
[21:51:38] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: I have one image repository for each wiki.
[21:52:13] <matthew_>	under web root, its files/Wiki/{$wsuCurrentWiki}/images
[21:52:54] <Duesentrieb>	and you don't have any wgSharedUpload* options set?
[21:53:22] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: I don't think I do....
[21:53:29] <Duesentrieb>	double check
[21:55:12] <matthew_>	not in my current wiki version--let me see if I missed that from the old 1.5.6 (also--google only has one result for "wgSharedUpload"  
[21:55:46] <Duesentrieb>	that's because google doesn'
[21:55:54] <Duesentrieb>	doesn't support substring search
[21:56:24] <Duesentrieb>	we have $wgUseSharedUploads, $wgSharedUploadPath, $wgSharedUploadDirectory, $wgSharedUploadDBname and several more
[21:57:01] <matthew_>	ah.. well.. the only references in the 1.12.0 and 1.5.6 are in mediawiki code.. nothing I put in (LocalSetting.php)
[21:57:10] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34274 10/trunk/extensions/ (45 files in 44 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from Betawiki (2008-05-05 23:21 CEST)
[21:57:11] <matthew_>	I was just grepping through code
[21:57:24] <Duesentrieb>	looking atlocalsettings should be sufficient
[21:57:37] <Duesentrieb>	well then... what dopes the image description page look like
[21:57:54] <Duesentrieb>	oh, and did you look at Special:Log? Uploads should be logged there.
[21:57:59] <Duesentrieb>	Also see Special:Newimages
[21:58:12] <matthew_>	nope.. let me look at those.. (and make notes of those)
[22:00:00] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: wow.. Special:Log shows where I tried to upload it and, when I click on it, it shows that image..
[22:00:29] <Duesentrieb>	huh. can you give me the url?
[22:01:06] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: but when I click on an image upload prior to the upgrade... It brings me to the dialog to upload
[22:01:16] <matthew_>	Here's the URL to the image I could get:  http://wikidev.wsu.edu/ctltwiki/Image:VLAN_Basics_2.jpg
[22:01:25] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34275 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (MessagesDe.php MessagesIs.php MessagesKk_cyrl.php): Localisation updates. Fixes on previous commit.
[22:01:43] <Duesentrieb>	"You must log in to view other pages." :)
[22:02:30] <matthew_>	hmm... ok just a sec....
[22:03:39] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: I guess none of the wikis in the farm are setup for anonymous access... I thought one of them might be..
[22:04:09] <Duesentrieb>	you'll have to dig yourself, them
[22:04:17] <Duesentrieb>	on that page, do you see the upload history?
[22:04:23] <matthew_>	yes
[22:04:25] <Duesentrieb>	can you include this image on some page?
[22:05:16] <matthew_>	actually, the "file history" shows only the last upload of it that I made after the upgrade to 1.12.0
[22:05:25] <matthew_>	let me see if I can link to it from another page
[22:07:02] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: yes I can.. It links and shows.
[22:07:16] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: So it's just all the old graphics from 1.5.6 that won't show..
[22:08:11] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) SpecialUserlogin. php only save settings if there is a change in rememberpassword - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13963 normal; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (stronk7)
[22:08:38] <Duesentrieb>	so... hm... they should... but maybe it has something to do with some odd setting, like hashed upload dirs or something. the handling changed a bit. 
[22:09:06] <Duesentrieb>	sorry, don't know what the problem is. try to get hold of timstarling, perhaps. he rewrote the image handling recently
[22:09:39] <CIA-50>	03brion * r34276 10/trunk/extensions/OggHandler/OggHandler_body.php: XHTML fix for ogg player icons: <img> -> <img/>
[22:09:41] <Duesentrieb>	he's on irc often, though australia-timed.
[22:11:01] <arcanez>	how can I override Special:UserLogin ?
[22:12:20] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: ok.. btw, I noticed it'll show the image on the new page I made but not on the original page...  like    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=image:VLAN_Basics_2.jpg‎    
[22:13:13] <Duesentrieb>	huh?
[22:14:44] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: it's strange..  I will try to track this through the code.. and, if still necessary, try to find timstarling, as you suggest.
[22:15:08] <CIA-50>	03brion * r34277 10/trunk/phase3/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
[22:15:08] <CIA-50>	Revert r34267, r34268, r34269, r34270 for now.
[22:15:08] <CIA-50>	I don't like the UI chhanges here; the file usage links simply disappear from
[22:15:08] <CIA-50>	their current location with no warning or explanation, while the in-page TOC at
[22:15:08] <CIA-50>	the top suddenly starts linking to a different page, totally unexpectedly.
[22:15:16] <Duesentrieb>	might just be a caching problem. try to purge. check edit preview, that's never cached.
[22:15:36] <matthew_>	Duesentrieb: good point... ok.. i will kill my cache
[22:16:08] <matthew_>	nope.. didn't work
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	03brion * r34278 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (Database.php DefaultSettings.php): 
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	Revert r34199, r34205 for now.
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	I don't really like the var name $wgSharedDBtables (inconsistent caps).
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	Compare with Gregory's patch on bug 2396:
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2396
[22:21:15] <CIA-50>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=3610
[22:21:19] <CIA-50>	That uses a var named $wgSharedTables, but makes it more flexible (allowing arbitrary DB and prefix per table), which may or may not be a super idea.
[22:24:02] <CIA-50>	03brion * r34279 10/trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES: missed a release note in revert
[22:25:50] <CIA-50>	03raymond * r34280 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesDe.php: 
[22:25:51] <CIA-50>	Localisation updates German
[22:25:51] <CIA-50>	Partly revert of r34273
[22:26:18] <arcanez>	is there documentation on how to use an external webpage as 'SpecialUserlogin.php' ?
[22:28:21] <Skizzerz>	!hooks
[22:28:21] --mwbot--	Hooks allow you to run functions at various points in the main MediaWiki code. For more information about using hooks in MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks>.
[22:28:36] <Skizzerz>	there is a hook that lets you set up a different login page thingie in there i believe
[22:28:41] <CIA-50>	03siebrand * r34281 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (16 files): Localisation updates. Rebuilt all language files.
[22:31:14] <arcanez>	$wgHooks['AutoAuthenticate'][] me thinks
[22:56:18] <cjb>	Hi!  When I look at the latest eswiki article dump, it seems to have 670000 articles.  But http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Statistics seems to say that it has 357944 articles.  Any idea what's up with that?
[22:57:09] <siebrand>	cjb: could it be total pages vs. main namespace pages?
[22:57:45] <cjb>	siebrand: The dump's download link says:
[22:57:46] <cjb>	Articles, templates, image descriptions, and primary meta-pages.
[22:58:09] <Splarka>	357944 articles  means...
[22:58:10] <cjb>	So I guess the image descriptions/templates count as articles, and maybe they're the 2x difference?
[22:58:12] <siebrand>	cjb: looks like that's is...
[22:58:17] <Splarka>	that many pages, in the main namespace, that aren't redirects, and contain one link
[22:58:24] <Splarka>	so templates/meta/images don't count towards that
[22:58:29] <carl-m>	contain the string [[, isn't it?
[22:58:30] <brion>	"Excluyéndolas, hay 357.944 páginas que probablemente son artículos legítimos."
[22:58:43] <brion>	= main namespace, containing a link
[22:58:54] <Splarka>	carl-m: I believe it means registered internal links
[22:59:04] <carl-m>	I thought it just looked for the string [[ these days
[22:59:10] <Splarka>	so excluding interwiki/interlang/category, but including images
[22:59:15] <carl-m>	now I need to pull out the source
[22:59:18] <Splarka>	heh
[22:59:20] <cjb>	:)
[22:59:25] <brion>	presence of '[[', yes
[22:59:30] <carl-m>	thanks
[22:59:33] <brion>	(note the live counters may not be accurate due to drift)
[22:59:37] <cjb>	Okay.  So the 350k vs. 690k makes sense.
[23:00:01] <cjb>	I wish I could cut down the size of the eswiki article dump without much loss of content.
[23:00:16] <carl-m>	before or after you download it? 
[23:00:20] <cjb>	after
[23:00:30] <cjb>	I'm trying to ship something for OLPC, based on the eswiki article dump
[23:00:38] <cjb>	and serving the data out compressed, a la wikipedia-iphone.
[23:00:54] <carl-m>	ah
[23:00:59] <cjb>	But hoping to go 480M -> ~100M without losing much probably isn't very realistic :)
[23:01:22] <cjb>	maybe if I just take an earlier dump, and hope that the "most important" articles are the ones that were created first..
[23:01:30] <Splarka>	heh
[23:01:36] <Duesentrieb>	cjb: "importance" of entries can easily be esitmated from the number in incomming links. if you want it more accurately and have cycles to burn, calculate page rank :)
[23:01:38] <Splarka>	take an earlier dump but get the newest versions of those articles?
[23:01:53] <cjb>	Splarka: ooh, that's a fine idea.
[23:02:13] <Splarka>	no it isn't, due what Duesentrieb said ^_^
[23:02:21] <cjb>	heh
[23:02:37] <Splarka>	and reduce thumbnails, remove meta pages when possible, and no templates should be needed if you are doing a static release right?
[23:02:46] <Duesentrieb>	actually, if you want roughly "older" pages, you can go by ID. not completly accurated, but pretty close.
[23:03:01] <cjb>	I'm just worried that I'll give a dump to kids who are offline in Peru or somewhere, and it'll have missed some basic science thing (like, say, "DNA Replication") because it only had incoming links from a few Biology pages.
[23:03:12] <cjb>	Splarka: thumbnails aren't in the article dump
[23:03:32] <Splarka>	you're not including any images?
[23:03:51] <cjb>	I was going to hand-pick some images later, I guess, but there's not much spce in the size budget for it.
[23:04:03] <Duesentrieb>	cjb: you can also try to traverse the category structure, starting at some "important" points. how much that strips out, and how much cruft it includes, depends on how well structured categories are on that wiki
[23:04:05] <cjb>	eswiki is 480M for just compressed article text, and I want to give something standalone that's useful in about 100M.
[23:04:11] <Duesentrieb>	enwiki sucks badly wrt this
[23:04:21] <cjb>	Duesentrieb: it seems that you quickly end up pulling in everything
[23:04:39] <Duesentrieb>	depending on the structure, yes.
[23:04:40] <cjb>	for example, the Science article links to the Religion article.  Even if I just follow one link from every page, it seems I quickly get everything pulled in.
[23:04:51] <Duesentrieb>	you can get more sophisticated, using spreading activation or some such
[23:05:01] <Duesentrieb>	but that ammounts top about that same as pagerank or HITS
[23:05:11] <cjb>	or number of edits.
[23:05:30] <Splarka>	heh
[23:05:42] <Duesentrieb>	yes, that's the "age" criterion
[23:05:45] <cjb>	I guess there's actually a wikislice community I should be talking to.
[23:05:48] <cjb>	Duesentrieb: more than just age
[23:05:55] <Duesentrieb>	shich is roughly correlated to number of links, btw
[23:06:03] <cjb>	huh. 
[23:06:10] <Duesentrieb>	(not only in wikipedia, in all "natural" hypertext networks)
[23:06:41] <Splarka>	rank all pages by number of revisions (more == better), date of first revision (older == better), date of last revision (newer == better), number of links (more == better), and length of page (longer == better), weight each rank and sum, then take the top 20%
[23:07:37] <Duesentrieb>	cjb: for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BA_model
[23:07:41] <Splarka>	date of first/last revision can just go by rev id# (or article id#)
[23:08:17] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: incomming links. outgoing are not so meaningfull.
[23:09:06] <Duesentrieb>	cjb: you could post to WikiResearch-l
[23:09:10] <Splarka>	Dues: that is what I meant
[23:09:20] <Splarka>	number of links TO, to clarify
[23:09:25] <Duesentrieb>	yea, i guessed so, but it wasn't quite clear :)
[23:09:29] <Splarka>	bah
[23:09:38] <Splarka>	.splarka {color:transparent;}
[23:09:39] <Splarka>	better?
[23:09:55] <cjb>	Okay.  Next question, I guess:  how much would I expect the full 3G dump to take up uncompressed in a db?  It looked like it was going to take a few days to get it imported to mysql for mwdumper when I tried last night.
[23:10:10] <cjb>	right, incoming links, got it
[23:10:29] <Duesentrieb>	cjb: test with simplewiki. it'
[23:10:39] <Duesentrieb>	it's nice and small, and gives you an impression of what to expect
[23:10:58] <Duesentrieb>	uncompressing xml/text from bzip2 should be about factor 10-20
[23:11:29] <cjb>	Duesentrieb: *nod*
[23:11:31] <Duesentrieb>	putting it in a database with all link tables, and all indexes on that... hell if i know. factor 2 or 3 maybe?
[23:11:47] <cjb>	does mysql usually store data compressed?
[23:11:51] <cjb>	</newbie>
[23:11:58] <Duesentrieb>	the secondary data is for relations, while the bulk is made up of plain text, so it's hard to tell
[23:12:08] <Duesentrieb>	no, maysql doesn't compress
[23:12:16] <cjb>	ah, interesting
[23:12:19] <Duesentrieb>	mediawiki can be told to compress revisions
[23:12:26] <cjb>	I wonder if there's a per-table option to compress text in mysql.  Seems like there should be.
[23:12:36] <Duesentrieb>	not sure how easy it is to set that up
[23:14:59] <Simetrical>	cjb, in recent versions I think there are table types that allow that.
[23:15:07] <Simetrical>	But I don't think it's true as a general transparent thing, no.
[23:15:09] <cjb>	*nod*
[23:15:15] <Simetrical>	Although it should be!  :)
[23:15:23] <carl-m>	I'm looking for it, but it looks like the compression in mysql 5 is a different sort of thing
[23:15:30] <cjb>	makes sense that if you want speedy access to your database, you probably don't want to store everything compressed.
[23:15:48] <Duesentrieb>	it would only make sense for long text
[23:16:01] <Duesentrieb>	i.e. clob types
[23:16:11] <cjb>	depends on the language model
[23:16:32] <cjb>	if you have a language model that was precompiled against the uncompressed data, it would make sense to compress every shortish strings with it
[23:17:33] <Duesentrieb>	that would still be very slow
[23:17:56] <Duesentrieb>	while the overhead for the relatively rare retrieval of full text would probably be barablke
[23:18:03] <carl-m>	compressing short strings is not going to help much
[23:18:10] <cjb>	right, it would be optimizing heavily for space at the expense of speed
[23:18:29] <carl-m>	might not save much space either
[23:19:00] <Duesentrieb>	for an application like XO, that might make sense. but for that, you wouldn't want a full blown relational db anyway.
[23:19:55] <cjb>	yeah.  so, at the moment we're keeping everything in the .xml.bz2 with an index, and uncompressing the specific block an article's in when it's asked for.
[23:20:24] <carl-m>	nice
[23:21:52] <Rothschild>	Evening everyone
[23:22:24] <cjb>	Might I be able to find an eswiki dump from <200802?  That's the oldest on download.mediawiki.org.
[23:22:31] <Rothschild>	I was wondering if can anyone help me out with optimizing something
[23:22:41] <Rothschild>	Skin strangely shows differently in Firefox and IE
[23:22:50] <Rothschild>	http://hleba.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
[23:23:20] <Rothschild>	The top bar, in IE has a slight moved to the right outside the box
[23:23:30] <Rothschild>	and sidebar, has top side of the bar missing X_X
[23:23:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MediaWiki:Sidebar regularly falls back to an obsolete version, due to server cache effect - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5092  (10brion)
[23:25:08] <CIA-50>	03simetrical * r34282 10/trunk/extensions/Resign/SpecialResign.php: Just use User::getAllGroups() here, that's what it's there for.
[23:25:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Fix namespace names in the Hungarian localization - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11488  +comment (10bdanee88)
[23:31:29] <Ktron>	How do you make an image link to another page (instead of two the image's page)?
[23:31:46] <Ktron>	I can't find it anywhere
[23:34:04] <carl-m>	Ktron: it's not possible with the usual image linking syntax. you can use an imagemap, though
[23:34:17] <Ktron>	carl-m, an imagemap?
[23:34:25] <carl-m>	Look at Help:Images
[23:34:53] <carl-m>	but the real answer is you have to do it some other way, you can't just do a piped link 
[23:36:32] <Ktron>	carl-m, do I need to have an extension installed for ImageMaps?
[23:37:14] <carl-m>	I believe it's Extension:ImageMap
[23:37:28] <carl-m>	that's what's enabled on wikipedia
[23:37:30] <Splarka>	!imagelink
[23:37:30] --mwbot--	Image linking is intentionally not supported in MediaWiki, so access to the image's description page is always available. If you need image links, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Linked_images> for methods and information.
[23:37:39] <Ktron>	carl-m, I apologize, that was a dumb question, its just barely further along the page
[23:37:42] <Splarka>	(there are many more ways than just imagemap)
[23:37:53] <carl-m>	javascript
[23:38:08] <Splarka>	css offsets, site-wide css, external images, other imagemap-like extensions
[23:38:29] <Splarka>	javascript sucks ^_^
[23:38:47] <Splarka>	you don't even need it, you can use site-wide css, and it has per-page control
[23:39:21] <carl-m>	is there any way except imagemap that works for the blind?
[23:39:43] <Splarka>	in what way does imagemap work for the blind?
[23:39:46] <Splarka>	it can't show them the image
[23:39:58] <carl-m>	you specify alt text for each object in the imagemap
[23:40:03] <Ktron>	I'm actually putting it in a template, so I'm debating between making the Image: page a redirect and installing Extension:Icon
[23:40:17] <Ktron>	I think for now I'll just make them redirects
[23:40:39] <Splarka>	well, his need of creating a whole image linking elsewhere is not the same as utilizing a proper USEMAP attribute of img
[23:41:10] <carl-m>	the linkedImage extension looks reasonable
[23:42:10] <Ktron>	Bleh, the #REDIRECT doesn't seem to work
[23:42:52] <Splarka>	carl: right, but sometimes, if it is say just one image on one page that need an external link, site-wide css is much simpler
[23:43:11] <Splarka>	but for something like a navigation template system using icons, that extension is much easier
[23:44:03] <carl-m>	sure, if you just needed one image, maybe CSS can do
[23:45:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Use Preprocessor_Hash by default to avoid missing DOM module errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13770  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:45:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to watch the user pages of users you block - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13950  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:47:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Use Preprocessor_Hash by default to avoid missing DOM module errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13770  (10brion)
[23:56:55] <Primate>	Is there a way to make MediaWiki validate against an external database? I checked the FAQ and couldn't find anything...
[23:57:41] *Primate 	coughs
[23:58:21] *Primate 	coughs louder
[23:59:38] <Splarka>	wow, they almost waited 90 seconds for a reply