[00:10:32] 03simetrical * r36661 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialVersion.php: May as well add my name here. It might come in handy sometime. [00:10:44] To create a namespace you name page you create a page namespacetitle.newpage right? [00:11:45] r36661? [00:11:52] Oh noes! [00:12:38] are ya gonna say that for the next 8 commits, vvv? [00:12:39] can someone please help me out? [00:12:47] lars3: Namespace:Title (a colon, not a period) [00:13:28] Splarka: I'm not [00:13:39] Nushio, I think there's a maintenance script, but probably not that works easily with just FTP. You could try chopping the file up. [00:14:11] hmm, why didn't I think of chopping the file? [00:14:58] split them up by pages, right Simetrical? [00:15:37] Nushio, make sure the result is still a valid XML document, though. [00:15:51] You'll probably have to copy the bits at the front and end to each one. [00:15:55] yeah, I've toyed with XML a lot [00:15:58] yeah [00:22:16] when i create a page within the namespace I always have to type the namespace before the title? Is there a way I could have the namespace be implied by were its being created [00:25:18] lars3: That's exactly what is happening [00:25:37] When you create Project:Page, it is in the project namespace /by definition/ [00:25:56] it's location /is/ the namespace [00:26:25] if that page were then moved to Page (ie no prefix) then it would move out of the project namespace and into the main (article) namespace [00:26:54] lars3: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Namespaces [00:26:56] 03demon * r36662 10/trunk/phase3/ (10 files in 7 dirs): (bug 14647) Remove unused 'townBox' class from global CSS. [00:27:29] 03(FIXED) townBox CSS definitions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14647 +comment (10innocentkiller) [00:28:16] <^demon> Shaved a few bytes off the CSS ;-) [00:29:25] Is there a way I can have a new page created based off a template depending on namespace [00:30:26] i understand kind of like boiler plate but for each namespace [00:30:42] mmmm.... [00:31:11] so you want every page in a particular namespace to follow a certain template style, and a different one for each namespace? [00:31:25] you can use templates for that, but it wouldn't be automatic [00:31:35] or if you use inputbox to create every page, I think you could do it [00:32:27] i would create a template that i load into inputbox? [00:32:54] but how would i do the namespace specification [00:33:23] 03danny_b * r36663 10/trunk/extensions/ (2 files in 2 dirs): * adding to proper group on Special:SpecialPages [00:37:00] ^_^ Whohoo... found a better way to create an instance of an object, with a variable number of parameters [00:54:47] Where do you put Common.css to make your mediawiki site pick it up. My 45 minutes of Googling have brought no answers. Neither has my attempt to put the stylesheet in various locations in my wiki. [00:55:19] Eh? [00:55:30] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] [00:56:02] Oh, well that wasn't obvious to me. [00:56:52] 03(mod) Admins should be asked for confirmation when Antispoof applies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13426 +comment (10tylerromeo) [00:59:48] 03(mod) Admins should be asked for confirmation when Antispoof applies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13426 +comment (10tylerromeo) [01:00:49] 03(mod) Admins should be asked for confirmation when Antispoof applies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13426 +comment (10tylerromeo) [01:02:01] 03(mod) Admins should be asked for confirmation when Antispoof applies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13426 (10tylerromeo) [01:04:29] Hi! How can I edit a special page? http://fr.wikipedia.com/wiki/Special:Statistques [01:05:00] Felixggenest : you can't unless you're a dev [01:05:25] Pierroman, peux-tu me parler francais ;-) [01:05:51] Felixggenest : ouais mais on est sur un chan anglophone... :) [01:06:57] Felixggenest : en fait, les pages spéciales sont aussi modifiables par les administrateurs, via les pages MediaWiki [01:07:22] ok... mais j'ai fait une requête et ca fait deux jours que ca traine... [01:07:37] Felixggenest : ok on voit ça sur #wikipedia-fr [01:18:32] I'd like to know... is there any news about the category moving issue? [01:24:32] 03(NEW) Wrap user interface messages in tags with lang & xml: lang if site language != user language - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14649 normal; normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (danny.b) [01:24:33] 03(mod) Markup accessibility issues (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=367 (10danny.b) [01:38:35] Does anyone know the syntax to link an image from a gallery to an url? [01:45:03] nowimproved: [[Media:Image.png]] is a usual syntax for direct links [01:58:30] Hey all. I'm working on a Tag extension and have a question. It seems magic words are not processed before the input is sent to the function, and it is not processed when it leaves the function either. Is this correct behaviour? If so how can I get the passed data phrased? [02:00:05] Oh well I feel stupid. I think I found it I was searching for the wrong term. [02:12:01] hi i've installed my php version from 5.0.2 to 5.2.6 and now mediawiki returns a blank page. what seems to be the problem? [02:13:32] ajushi: bump the memory limit [02:21:10] Alexfusco5: i bumped it to 64mb but it still returns a blank page.. [02:22:27] ajushi: what version? [02:23:24] Alexfusco5: of mediawiki? 1.10.0 [02:24:14] ajushi: I think it might work if you update to 1.12 (or if you can keep up with it 1.13alpha) [02:25:12] Vasil? [02:26:23] Hi, I'm getting a "Failed opening required 'convertLinks.inc'" during install that's coming from maintenance/updaters.inc on line 13 [02:26:42] looks like it's trying to include from config/convertLinks.inc, when it should be including maintenance/convertLinks.inc [02:26:46] any pointers? [02:30:08] Alexfusco5: ok thanks man ill try :) [02:46:34] Anyone know a good site that recommends how to do google adsense within wikipedia [02:46:44] I don't want to break their rules with having ads on login pages, etc. [02:47:29] I want to put an ad in the sidebar but not to show up on non-content pages [02:49:34] like not show up on the login page [02:53:13] I have information that will be formated differently in several locations... is it posible to put the information into a template, and then have that automaticly fill in the data to the other templates? [02:53:47] basicly having one template that is a data set, and other templates that are the formatting for that data depending on location [02:59:28] Is this a channel where I can ask media-wiki customizing questions? [03:00:08] !ask [03:00:08] --mwbot-- Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. Also, please read < http://workaround.org/moin/GettingHelpOnIrc > for a good explanation of getting help on IRC. [03:00:47] (but simply asking the question doesn't assure you to get answers...) [03:01:04] Can I create a template for 3rd level categories to be formatted differently (other than alphabetically) -> details http://rafb.net/p/kkNzGa25.html [03:01:15] wow... i just ask my question, and its all crickets... someone asks if they can ask... and they get 3-4 responces in under a min [03:01:20] 03(FIXED) enhancement of languageConverter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14604 +comment (10shinjiman) [03:01:33] lol...sorry :) [03:01:47] its fine, just ironic [03:02:01] neurotope : I still haven't got any answers for my question :) [03:02:12] neurotope: sadly, typing ¡ask takes less effort for some folks. :/ [03:02:14] asked about 2 hours ago [03:02:22] *Krimpet looks, sees if she can help [03:02:35] im trying to fill out the info in once template with another template :-) is there a way to do this? [03:02:40] neurotope: I would help if I knew the answer; please don't be so rude [03:02:41] *Shinjiman kicks CIA-53 for not reporting the changes [03:02:46] "Can I ask a question?" is the only question everyone here can answer [03:02:59] lol [03:03:00] XD [03:03:02] Sparka: lol [03:03:11] mike: sory [03:03:12] usually "!ask" or "you just did" [03:03:17] neurotope: hmm, lemme think [03:04:00] perhaps i can be one of the rare few that may get an answer..is it possible to change the format of a category page? so its not alphabettical [03:04:27] neurotope: the best I can think of is, make one parameter of the "data" template specify the name of the "formatting" template to use [03:05:06] what if i am going to use the same data in 5 different formats? [03:05:42] im trying to fake a psudo database where the data is in one place, but its in different charts based on need [03:06:15] e.g. you'd use it as {{data|format=format1|a|b}}; {{data}} would consist of {{{{{format}}}|{{{1}}}|{{{2}}}}}; {{format1}} would display the data [03:06:28] kinda like a style sheet. [03:06:36] yeah [03:06:48] can i just post a link to my current attempts? [03:06:51] sure [03:07:13] http://mabinogiworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Short_Bow [03:07:19] http://mabinogiworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:WeaponBox [03:07:32] http://mabinogiworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:ShortBowInfo [03:07:43] there we go, the sum of my current attempts [03:07:46] andrew22: hmm, that might be a bit trickier [03:07:57] yeah [03:08:20] andrew22: i know there are things to change the way all of them are orginized, but i dont know about just that level [03:08:44] well let start simple...how can change the organization [03:08:58] andrew22: problem is, MediaWiki doesn't really store the "level" of a category :/ [03:09:40] perhaps if i tag a category as being level 1, 2, or 3? [03:10:03] so, any answers to my question? [03:10:05] :-) [03:10:29] or do I just need to modify all the files so that the requires point to the correct locations? ;-) [03:10:30] Krimpet...how can i change the organization of a simple category? [03:11:00] andrew22: I'm not sure :/ [03:11:08] poop [03:11:08] lol [03:11:11] ramsey: what version are you using? [03:11:27] give me a min andrew, im looking for the extention [03:11:33] andrew22: your best bet may be, instead of including the category directly, make a template that sets the sort key [03:11:48] Krimpet: latest version... trying to install... 1.12.0 [03:11:59] neurotope: I'm checking out your templates, what are you attempting to do with em exactly? [03:12:33] Krimpett: ...can i make a template that uses DPL to sort based on a portion of the word in the name of an article? [03:13:27] ramsey: are you running the upgrade from the shell, or from your browser? [03:13:33] Krimpet: browser [03:13:50] oh, yeah, that's the right way. :/ [03:13:54] Krimpet: I could do it from the shell, but I couldn't find instructions for it anywhere [03:14:09] Krimpet: point is, whether from browser or shell, the include_path is messed up [03:14:47] ramsey: what kind of configuration are you running? [03:15:03] LAMP, or something more exotic? [03:15:07] Krimpet: LAMP [03:16:17] from config/index.php, it's trying to include convertLinks.inc from line 13 of maintenance/updaters.inc, but it's trying to get it as if it were config/converLinks.inc because it's looking in the current working directory, but it should be including maintenance/convertLinks.inc [03:16:31] ramsey: I dunno. :/ might be worth changing the paths I suppose [03:16:48] *Krimpet uses the SVN version [03:16:53] I'd prefer not to modify the code if it's something that's supposed to work for everyone else [03:17:37] I've already had to change the Namespace class to MWNamespace because I'm using PHP 5.3-dev, and there's a T_NAMESPACE syntax error :-) [03:18:18] it might be worth trying out the SVN version if you can. Wikimedia runs on it without much trouble :) [03:18:30] Krimpet: had a chance to look at the links? [03:18:43] neurotope: yep, checking em out [03:18:49] I think I see what you mean [03:19:42] neurotope: actually, you're on the right track. :) try this: {{WeaponBox|{{ShortBowInfo}}}} [03:20:05] it _should_ transclude the parameters in {{ShortBowInfo}} as arguments to WeaponBox [03:20:17] i think i tried that, but i will again :-) [03:21:07] ok, tried, and the failure saved as a minor edit [03:21:44] I may have found a solution to my issue, the following extension can organizae categories, sub categories, etc [03:21:45] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NiceCategoryList2 [03:21:55] Thanks to everyone for all your help [03:22:04] I guess the question is the order of transclution, and how it is resolved [03:22:26] neurotope: I created an account there, so I'll fiddle around with it a bit [03:22:39] because {{WeaponBox|{{subst:ShortBowInfo}}}} works... but it transcludes on save... so if i change the source data no trickel down [03:22:48] Krimpet: nope... from SVN, still getting the same error on config/index.php: [03:22:49] Fatal error: require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required 'convertLinks.inc' (include_path='.:/path/to/pear') in /path/to/mediawiki/maintenance/updaters.inc on line 12 [03:23:49] the namespace issue does appear to be fixed in SVN, though :-) [03:24:22] ramsey: im glad there are people like you breaking the weak points so the rest of us have good software :-) [03:24:37] heh [03:24:58] neurotope: and I'm just trying to *use* the software like the rest of you... this is my first time installing it :-) [03:25:42] ramsey: I think it's getting the install path wrong, somehow [03:25:57] :-) [03:25:59] oh, this is an install issue?!? well then ill turn my brain back on and see if i can be helpful [03:27:01] neurotope: to be fair, I am installing it on a development version of PHP 5.3, which is why I mentioned the namespace issue ;-) [03:35:40] ok krimpet, it looks like it might just be you and me again :-/ [03:36:09] *Krimpet is trying to figure out how these parameters should work <_< [03:40:27] {{WeaponBox|{{subst:ShortBowInfo}}}} [03:40:55] will make it work temporaroly... but because it kills the link back to the data template its not a solution [03:41:18] yeah, I think the problem is it expands WeaponBox _before_ ShortBowInfo [03:43:49] I think you might have had the right idea before with the calling the formatting as part of the dataset... [03:43:52] let me try that [03:44:31] one sec, I'm editing {{shortbowinfo}} :) [03:45:05] well darn, i was getting ready too :-) [03:45:40] try {{ShortBowInfo|format=WeaponBox}} now. :) [03:46:25] yep that worked [03:47:24] that should work, then - just make your data templates in the same format. ;) [03:47:48] yeah, by the time you were doing that we were at the exact same point... [03:47:49] :-) [03:47:55] thats great! thankyou! [03:48:03] no problem, and good luck. :) [03:55:12] another common scenario here: "So how can I do *thingy*" "well, you can simply do *solution*" "But that is too complicated for my (target audience|user base|core fanbase|grandmother)" "Have you considered tinker toys instead of mediawiki?" [03:57:01] Does anyone know the syntax to link an image from a gallery to an url? [03:57:07] scenario #17: "how can I do *opposite of what mediawiki was designed for*" "have you considered not using mediawiki?" "I like the look of wikipedia" [03:57:21] !imagelink | nowimproved [03:57:21] --mwbot-- nowimproved: Image linking is intentionally not supported in MediaWiki, so access to the image's description page is always available. If you need image links, see for methods and information. One way to achieve this is . [03:57:37] (unless you mean from a tag) [03:59:07] Splarka, yes, I mean from a gallery tag [03:59:53] well, you could build your own gallery tag with table syntax I suppose [05:03:14] 03rotem * r36665 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: Add new variants to the English file. [05:14:26] hi, i got mediawiki 1.12.0 installed. i previously have apache run php as cgi. i decided to run php as a module but it messed things up in mediawiki. the tables are collapsed and the url is changed from mywiki//index.php?title=Main_Page to mywiki/index.php/Main_Page..what seems to be the problem? [05:45:52] 03(mod) Enable FlaggedRevs custom configuration on he.wikisource - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14648 (10novartza) [06:14:58] i have a server with a 2.8 ghz P4 and two GB of RAM running freebsd 5, how much traffic could i get to a mediawiki site running on that without it choking? [06:15:32] Overlord_45: properly configured you should be able to serve millions of pages a month without any trouble. [06:15:51] fantastic [06:16:10] is "properly configured" very much beyond "installing it" [06:16:30] Overlord_45: caching is very important for performance. [06:17:13] Overlord_45: mysql configuration can also get you some additional 20%. [06:17:49] Overlord_45: I think MediaWiki.org has some documentation. Please google. [06:19:58] okay [06:22:25] i have setup mediawiki locally on my pc.. i am not a php guy...want to customize navigation bar...any front end tool or other ways to do ? [06:24:42] udinesh5: change [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] [06:27:25] hello everyone [06:30:30] got a question [06:30:40] how does mediawiki delete an image [06:30:59] and what is the distinction between image and old image [06:34:00] siebrand: but then i dont have an edit button there [06:34:22] siebrand: i am using mediawiki-1.12.0 [06:42:58] siebrand:i edited them using the page MediaWiki:Sidebar... thanks a lot ! [06:53:41] can someone tell me what oldimage is all about? [06:54:04] I have directories "wiki/index.php?title=California" but want it to belong to a namespace Location? [06:59:09] Hi all! I am using wgAutoloadClasses on multiple classes all being defined within one file, but this appears to be problematic/unstable in MW. [06:59:30] When I call Special:Specialpages, there is a PHP error since the one fuile was included multiple times. [06:59:43] (Redeclaration of existing class) [07:00:17] This is due to __autoload using include instead of include_once (which should normally work fine, but fails in my case) [07:00:43] Is this a known problem wth autoloading (no more than one class per file), or can I fix that somehow? [07:06:34] MarkusK: insufficient information error. [07:08:07] siebrand: this is meant to be a general question, but I can be more specific. What do you need? [07:08:33] MarkusK: see for example: extensions\Translate\_autoload.php [07:08:45] lines 14-15: [07:08:46] $wgAutoloadClasses['TranslateTasks'] = $dir . 'TranslateTasks.php'; [07:08:46] $wgAutoloadClasses['TaskOptions'] = $dir . 'TranslateTasks.php'; [07:09:34] siebrand: ok, so this should work in general [07:09:56] MarkusK: I would assume so. [07:10:55] siebrad: I have had some troubles of isolating the error. The file has many classes, but only the autoload on one of them caused troubles, even if the class decl was replaced by an empty stub [07:11:29] MarkusK: I like reduction as a tool for analysis :) [07:12:04] siebrand: I have a suspicion that some PHP include caching may be a problem here, since I cannot find a disintction between working and broken classes on my code level [07:12:23] ... I try to restart my webserver [07:12:27] MarkusK: are you using ini_set( 'display_errors', 1); [07:12:52] MarkusK: and error_reporting( E_ALL | E_STRICT ); [07:13:46] yes, I report everything down to notice [07:14:05] but the "redeclaration of class" error is critical anyway [07:14:57] siebrand: the error is gone now [07:15:00] ... ! [07:15:15] ... I did not do any changes to the code [07:18:28] siebrand: since I have you here ... are you aware that message loading is extremely slow with the BetaWiki method? [07:18:55] ... I have profiled our setup times when we still used the old custom message files in SMW [07:19:20] ... and SMW at this time consumed only <0.2% of overall processing time on a normal server [07:19:45] ... since we have switched to the new single-file message management, SMW went up to 10% on the same site. [07:20:17] ... I identified "wfLoadExtensionMessages" as the source of this [07:22:07] puck: sorry, I had connection problems, and somehow I have missed your private message... though, now I see it in my logs. Thanks! I will have a look soon. [07:24:46] siebrand: I see that PHP caching could probably fix that, but a solution for vanilla LAMP sites would also be great. It seems that the message file just takes very long to be read, even though 95% of languages are not needed at all. [07:25:49] ... our old system had one file per language and loaded only the required languages at all [07:27:00] ... also, we often did not load any user messages (the extension init is called on every MW call, e.g. three times for one display of Special:Specialpages, but many of these calls need no messages at all) [07:27:51] MarkusK: I do not know what you think the "Betawiki method" of loading messages is. [07:28:15] MarkusK: I am more involved in localisation than I am in coding i18n. [07:28:16] siebrand: ah, sorry, it is the stnadrd MW method that SMW adopted to be BetaWiki compatible [07:28:34] MarkusK: Best talk to Nikerabbit is you think you have solutions. [07:28:51] is there someway I can have a form that simplifies page creation?That supports multiple page creation? [07:28:59] like an input box [07:29:08] but multiple [07:29:23] siebrand: ok, I will try to ask him; I think I have ideas how to fix the problem [07:29:39] jh57: SemanticForms is an extension that enables form-based page creation [07:30:28] jh57: see the "create" links (in the toolbar) on discoursedb.org [07:30:39] MarkusK: as for messages: you could do is split up (like for flagged revs) and lazy load further. [07:30:43] jh57: not "create" but "add" [07:31:35] siebrand: yes, sop�litting up would be useful, but how does work with the BetaWiki upload of new messages? Can BetaWiki also create split files? [07:32:02] MarkusK: sure, no problem. We just deal with message collections. However small or large. [07:32:09] thank you that should work [07:32:41] MarkusK: FYI: duplicates are not supported at the moment. [07:33:24] siebrand: ah, you mean one could split messages into groups. I was thinking about splitting by language (all messages of one language in a single file) [07:33:26] MarkusK: so if you need the same message, and cannot put them in a 'generic messages' collection, you should duplicate and give a different message ID. [07:33:45] MarkusK: indeed the former, not the latter. [07:36:00] siebrand: splitting by language seems to be more efficient; I may sometimes know that I need just half of the messages, but I always know with certanty that I need ony <5% of all languages! [07:36:48] siebrand: but maybe separatng special page labels into one group would be a start, since these are really the main thing to be loaded on all MW runs [07:37:16] siebrand: how can I make such a new message group and move over the existing messages easily? [07:37:30] MarkusK: great question :( [07:37:40] MarkusK: find a regex guru. [07:38:07] MarkusK: you could ask how aaron did it. [07:38:18] siebrand: assuming I have a guru, what do I need to do at the file level? [07:38:48] MarkusK: well, step one would be to indentify the variuous collections and the messages that belong to each of them. [07:38:48] siebrand: I guess BetaWiki has to consider the new message group as a separate "extension" [07:39:20] (yes, although we can create meta extensions, combining messages of multiple message collections) [07:39:34] (I think I did that for FlaggedRevs) [07:40:03] (ah, that might be useful, but in any case someone at BetaWiki needs to set up those groups first) [07:40:09] MarkusK: step 2: move all the translations to their proper collections and retain author info [07:40:26] MarkusK: step 3: adapt code [07:40:40] MarkusK: 3a. define new ExtensionMessagesFiles [07:41:06] MarkusK: 3b. update/add/granularise wfLoadExtensionMessages [07:41:16] MarkusK: 4. Test 5. Commit :) [07:41:51] siebrand: ok, sounds like a project for the next release ... [07:42:14] MarkusK: once you commit, I'll see that stuff changed and i'll update Translate. [07:43:36] MarkusK: please give me a heads up if you are planning on changing (many) message IDs in the process. Then I can rename BW pages to retain author history. [07:44:31] siebrand: ok, thanks, I will consider this change and let you know when I begin [07:45:06] 03(mod) Change autoconfirmed days limit in Chinese Wikipedia. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624 +comment (10shizhao) [07:48:23] MarkusK: FYI: we have 1685 messages related to SMW in BW (some 3000 more for drilldown, forms, calendar) [07:48:55] whoa [07:48:59] that's a lot of massages. [07:49:06] abusefilter has like 20 [07:49:18] siebrand: as always, I am impressed by the translation progress ... [07:49:22] Werdna: you may like http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Orphan_messages [07:49:44] Werdna: Nikerabbit compiled some stats with pages connected to message groups. [07:49:56] ext-centralauth: 7337 [07:50:10] siebrand: I note that even ParserFunctions take around 5% of processing time on my profiling site, again all in message loading [07:50:30] 03(mod) Change autoconfirmed days limit in Chinese Wikipedia. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624 (10shizhao) [07:50:34] siebrand: so my performance issue is not so SMW specific it seems [07:51:06] MarkusK: that sounds like inefficient loading to me. PF only needs messages on special pages and in error messages. [07:52:17] siebrand: yes, indeed; for the detailed setup times see http://semanticweb.org/profileinfo.php?filter=&sort=time&expand=Setup.php [07:53:03] siebrand: maybe I should try to upgrade PF, to see if the message loading is more efficient now [07:53:06] MarkusK: are you using the SVN version of PF? [07:53:34] MarkusK: I just checked that code, and message loading in PF is *very* specific. [07:53:53] MarkusK: only immediately before it needs an error message. [07:54:05] hmm? [07:54:17] siebrand: I try to update PF, maybe my version is out of date (the upgrade pull for PF is rather small, feature wise ;-) [07:54:29] damn, am I always afk at the wrong time? [07:54:45] Nikerabbit: dunno. Read scrollback and let us know :) [07:56:49] siebrand: I have upgraded PF from SVN now, we will see how the profile results change over time (a simple way to store and restart profiling would be nice, I do not want to loose the current data) [07:57:10] How would I best achieve setting up a discography like wikipedia? [07:57:57] MarkusK: you will probably not get the best results possible because your wiki does not have ParserFirstCallInit yet (uncertain abot that) [07:59:21] MarkusK: I checked the PF commit logs. It was updates to use wfLoadExtMessages 2008-01-13. That's a while ago (before 1.12 branch, I think) [07:59:45] MarkusK: I have not been able to spot efficiency updates in the commit log. [07:59:46] peleg: No worries [08:00:01] siebrand: Why would I not have ParserFirstCallInit, given that I run 1.13 from SVN? It is documented to be available sine 1.12. [08:00:06] I've had a suggestion for a better way to parse the HTML, but I haven't made the required changes yet. [08:00:39] MarkusK: Oh, you do. In my mind I had you on 1.12-RELEASE [08:02:07] nowimproved: install a wiki, get a community, grow it for 7 years. [08:02:24] siebrand: Re PF: SVN upgrade pulled in various PF changes, maybe my version was still very old and things are better now [08:03:27] *MarkusK goes afk [08:08:55] MarkusK: are you saying most of the time goes to parsing the message files? [08:23:55] siebrand, I meant like wikipedia has albums! I'm not that ambitious! [08:29:19] nowimproved: look at the template structure, consider copying it. [08:35:49] *MarkusK is back [08:36:04] Nikerabbit: yes, I assume so [08:36:59] Nikerabbit: it may also be that the internal processing takes time, but in any case I can reduce the 10% setup time to <0.1% if I remove the message loading [08:37:13] Nikerabbit: I also think that the time has inclreased with the size of the Message file [08:56:55] 03mkroetzsch * r36666 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/ (39 files in 13 dirs): [08:56:55] Replaced includes by autoloads throughout the code, moved some global constants into related classes to prevent [08:56:55] includes being required for defining constants [09:10:57] MarkusK: and you are not using any php cache? [09:11:32] Nikerabbit: No, I assume this would fix the problem. But many sites have no PHP cache. [09:12:22] mediawiki isn't built for small sites [09:12:39] that doesn't mean it has to be slow for small sites [09:12:52] slakr: we try to serve our users, they have small sites too [09:13:18] anyway, I assume most of the time goes into parsing [09:13:26] if you're serving anything other than the occasional user, you're wasting money by not using caching [09:13:31] which anyway takes most of the time if there is no cache [09:13:54] literally the difference in even normal, insignificant scripts is the difference between 0.300 seconds and 0.001 second [09:14:07] Nikerabbit: we once had one file per language in earlier versions, and this worked very well even without caching [09:14:33] slakr: I agree that caching is good to have in general [09:14:39] it would be nice if we had a nice and efficient database for messages... but with caching we already have pretty good one... without complicating the code [09:15:11] some extensions that are regex-intensive (the anti-spam/blacklist ones come to mind) have very high regex compile times if the blacklist is long and the code isn't cached [09:15:43] Nikerabbit: ok, so the official solution is to use caching; I make a mental note to put that into the installation notes for SMW so that people actually do it [09:16:14] (including myself) [09:16:23] MarkusK: well, don't make it too official [09:16:54] Nikerabbit: are there problems with recommending caching in general? [09:17:01] but as it provides a good general speed up, it makes the need for alternative methods less interesting [09:17:12] yes, I agree [09:17:29] I will make it a suggestion, no requirement [09:17:34] MarkusK: it needs some knowledge to install one, and with shared hosting it may not be possible unless the administrator does it [09:18:05] Nikerabbit: that might be a problem for many sites [09:18:27] ... can you point me to a docu page to get started? [09:20:07] MarkusK: dunno if there is any good general one, robcurch seems to have something for apc: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Robchurch/Performance_tuning [09:20:07] I would also suggest that if you're not planning on using memcached that you choose an opcode cache that has variable caching as well [09:20:45] (e.g., xcache and eaccelerator) [09:21:27] ok, thanks for the hints, there seems to be indeed some entry barrier to read through the various docus first ... [09:21:44] slakr: what I have gathered, all of those which do opcode and session caching are about equal in the speed [09:22:03] ? [09:22:03] unless mediawiki is somehow special case, it really doesn't matter which one of those is used wrt speed [09:22:18] I would still like to have non-cached setup to be somewhat faster (10% -15% is really extremely slow as compared to all other functions of MW) [09:22:20] variable caching reduces database load [09:23:11] MarkusK: everyone would, but after hitting the low hanging fruits it's not that easy anymore :/ [09:23:30] MarkusK: anyway, I (we?) are using apc for betawiki [09:23:40] works nice.. after I figured out how to combine it with lighttpd [09:24:20] Nikerabbit > you should look into Xcache. [09:24:27] it's written by the same guys who develop lighttpd [09:24:48] I think one primarily focuses on lighttpd while the other primarily focuses on xcache or something [09:24:51] *slakr forgets [09:25:22] slakr: maybe, not high priority unless it is guaranteed to change the world :) [09:25:26] nah [09:25:31] they all pretty much do the same thing [09:25:32] Nikerabbit: would it be possible to have one message file per language? I can usually determine which language(s) I actually need. The only issue might be cascading fallback languages [09:26:19] oh that's right... I think xcache had some better handling of fcgi [09:26:23] Nikerabbit: but otherwise I could very simply specify in my code which language I wish to load, so that most of the messages were ignored completely [09:26:30] which was why I ended up using it instead of the other opcode caches [09:26:46] MarkusK: would need core changes.. and probably not work for older version again [09:26:46] because otherwise you have x different cache pools running instead of 1 [09:26:48] but w/e [09:26:57] they others have probably adjusted by now [09:27:29] they/the* [09:27:30] slakr: and MediaWiki has nice little extension for apc :) [09:27:49] it also has one for xcache [09:27:51] I wrote it ;) [09:28:14] though it's technically not an extension-- it's a patch [09:28:22] either way it's in trunk [09:28:48] slakr: mmm now news for xcache in this year... [09:29:17] slakr: well, I'm not talking about support, but nice administrating extension :o [09:29:34] oh gotcha [09:29:46] Nikerabbit: I see, yet I am sure that this would give a lot of speedup since it immediately disregards 99% of messages per run. Maybe one could keep it in mind in case there is opportunity for such changes once ... [09:30:06] Nikerabbit: for now I will try PHP caches [09:32:22] MarkusK: the problem is not about discarding.. it's about not having to do the slow parsing :o [09:33:48] Nikerabbit: sure, but slowly parsing only 2% or 3% of data is still much faster [09:36:33] *MarkusK needs to go afk [09:39:09] 03(mod) central-auth ALT message for browsers with images disabled - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14597 +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh) [09:57:48] Could anyone direct me to documentation on wiki syntax :p? [09:58:40] maybe google [09:59:31] Google tends to hate me, thanks for suggesting though ;) [09:59:52] !syntax [09:59:52] --mwbot-- For help with MediaWiki's Wikitext syntax, please see . For an (incomplete) formal specification, see . [10:00:08] str4nd, thanks :) [10:00:11] np [10:34:06] on special:wantedpages, in the box that says "exclude titles", what is the seperator for using multiple titles? [10:38:20] anyone? [10:46:02] also, is there a way to hide redirects on special:allpages [10:47:23] with css that but that isn't nice [11:34:21] is there an easy way to move the "Go" button on recent changes onto the line above? [11:49:16] yes and no [11:49:47] ok [11:50:06]