[00:00:20] <Simetrical>	How would you know they didn't stop in the middle of typing their password?
[00:00:26] <Splarka>	username: [foo] pasword: [bar] .......... [save] ... ajax... User not found, please check your username.... and fill out this captcha. Password not found.. please verify, and fill out this captcha
[00:00:31] <Splarka>	why would you care?
[00:00:40] <yksinaisyyteni>	Splarka: no you couldn't
[00:00:42] <Simetrical>	You're going to use up a password login attempt and display a captcha if I start typing my password and tab to another field?
[00:00:55] <yksinaisyyteni>	because that would allow people to brute force passwords
[00:00:57] <Splarka>	...
[00:00:58] <Simetrical>	That's real convenient if I'm blind.
[00:01:06] *Splarka 	explains in small words
[00:01:17] <Simetrical>	We don't need to shoehorn everything into JavaScript.
[00:01:25] <Simetrical>	This particular thing doesn't really need it at all.
[00:01:26] <Splarka>	when they click [save], they'll have filled in their login and password fields, yes?
[00:01:31] <Simetrical>	Splarka, yes.
[00:01:33] <Splarka>	okay
[00:01:46] <Splarka>	this will then, without JS, subit the form to action=submit 
[00:01:46] <werdnum>	And if they fail, we send them off to Special:Userlogin
[00:01:47] <Simetrical>	You mean display the captcha and stuff before actually submitting the form, but after they click save?
[00:01:55] <Splarka>	yes, that can be done in JS
[00:01:57] <Simetrical>	To save a page reload.
[00:01:59] <Simetrical>	Yeah, sure.
[00:02:02] <Simetrical>	That would be reasonable.
[00:02:07] <Splarka>	the save can be deferred by return fail on the onsubmit
[00:02:18] <Simetrical>	Orthogonal to what's being discussed, though.
[00:02:25] <Splarka>	not really
[00:02:27] <Simetrical>	It's applicable to all logins.
[00:02:29] <Splarka>	you talk about ajax login, this is ajax login
[00:02:30] <Simetrical>	Not just logins on edit pages.
[00:02:46] <Splarka>	it would log them in before the edit actually gets submitted
[00:03:00] <Simetrical>	Yes, yes, fine.  Could do that on UserLogin too.
[00:03:01] <Splarka>	if the login failed, it could display the captcha and a password field (by rolldown)
[00:03:17] <Splarka>	well, you seem to be missing your own point
[00:03:22] <Splarka>	that of not reloading the edit form more than necessary
[00:03:41] <Splarka>	who cares about a Special:Userlogin form reloading a few times?
[00:03:47] <Simetrical>	What's the difference?
[00:03:54] <Splarka>	about 15 <inputs> 
[00:04:37] <Splarka>	<yksinaisyyteni> because that would allow people to brute force passwords
[00:04:43] <Splarka>	no it wouldn't, in fact you can't
[00:05:07] <Splarka>	the API returns captchas too
[00:05:07] *Splarka 	missed that in the rambling
[00:05:40] <Simetrical>	We're talking about reloading in the rare event someone mistypes something.  If the code is there, it might as well be used for both, anyway.
[00:06:04] <Simetrical>	Logins are rare, it's not so important if they're slightly inconvenient for regular users.  The main goal is to make account creation even more painless.
[00:06:48] <Splarka>	well, other Ajax could be useful too
[00:06:58] <Splarka>	like 'the username you wish to log into is blocked, are you sure?"
[00:07:11] <Splarka>	or 'The account creation throttle limit has been reached for your IP'
[00:08:32] <Simetrical>	Yes, fine, eventually.
[00:08:37] *Splarka 	shrugs
[00:08:49] <Splarka>	just sayin
[00:09:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582  (10smccandlish)
[00:09:02] <Splarka>	and for the love of god, make it disableable in a global variable ^_^
[00:10:01] <Splarka>	(I guess as a preference it'd be kinda silly.... unless it set a cookie for you on every browser session while you were logged in "[x] show login form on edit if I get logged out")
[00:10:43] <Simetrical>	Should be a global variable, but on by default.
[00:12:09] <Splarka>	speaking of, maybe that'd be a handy (slightly altered) preference...
[00:12:59] <Splarka>	a cookie "[x] do not allow me to edit if I get logged out", although cases where the browser session or login cookie failed would probably kill that cookie as well
[00:14:06] <Platonides>	it'd be better as a browser plugin
[00:14:11] <Platonides>	or a greasemonkey script
[00:15:05] <Garnol>	When editing a wiki page the wikilogo is shown, but when it comes to the real pages the wikilogo is not there. Can anyone help me fixing this?
[00:15:37] <Duesentrieb>	Garnol: use an *absolute* web path in $wgLogo
[00:15:48] <Duesentrieb>	relative pathes do not work, especially if you use pretty urls.
[00:15:59] <Duesentrieb>	you can also use a full url if you like
[00:16:09] <Garnol>	Duesentrieb what are absolute paths?
[00:16:25] <Splarka>	Platonides: a body class like user-anonymous would be handy for that, it could simply be CSS then
[00:16:46] <Duesentrieb>	a path starting with "/". a path that starts right after your domain name in the url
[00:16:53] <Garnol>	the image i use is in the same directory as the config file. So 'Filename' isnt correct?
[00:17:04] <Duesentrieb>	as opposed to a path relative to the location where you installed mediawiki
[00:17:05] <Duesentrieb>	no, it's not correct
[00:17:35] <Garnol>	Hm, maybe i should through this into the discussion of the mediawiki how to -- thats the place i learned this ^
[00:18:47] <Duesentrieb>	good night
[00:19:15] *Splarka 	adds that to !logo, since it comes up a few times a month
[00:19:19] <werdnum>	ugh, there is ONE setting that I can't categorise and it's pissing me off.
[00:19:54] <werdnum>	Maybe I'll cheat and just kill it.
[00:20:12] <Splarka>	werdnum: how will you handle settings that rely on previous settings? like $IP.'string' ?
[00:20:25] <werdnum>	Splarka: they show up as blank.
[00:20:30] <werdnum>	you can override them.
[00:20:54] <Splarka>	I mean, how do you change them while keeping the variable, like if you want $IP.'foostring'?
[00:21:26] <Splarka>	(and not a literally input '1.2.3.4foostring')
[00:22:22] <werdnum>	Why would you want to do that?
[00:22:36] <werdnum>	If you override them in LocalSettings.php, then there isn't the appending either.
[00:22:59] <Simetrical>	There can be.
[00:23:04] <Simetrical>	$foo = "$IP/bar";
[00:23:43] <werdnum>	Yeah, you *can*.
[00:24:19] <werdnum>	But you can also do stuff like $actions = array( 'edit', 'view', 'delete', 'watch', 'unwatch', ... ); foreach( $actions as $a ) { $wgActionPaths[$a] = 
[00:24:27] <werdnum>	"/$a/$1"; }
[00:24:31] <werdnum>	and I'm so not implementing that.
[00:25:04] <Splarka>	so no raw php input? heh
[00:25:54] <werdnum>	Um, no :P
[00:27:12] *werdnum 	stabs Splarka 
[00:34:55] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44095 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (3 files): Configure extension groupings cleanup.
[00:37:26] <wikibugs>	14(WFM)  People articles with single category sort incorrectly on category lists - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16494  +comment (10lejonel)
[00:55:01] *Splarka 	bleeds bleedlatedly
[01:50:22] <RingtailedFox>	does anyuone know where i can find the mediawiki mailing list?
[01:51:07] <yksinaisyyteni>	lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
[01:52:57] <RingtailedFox>	thank ya
[01:55:20] *Splarka 	updates !list since the link to lists.wikimedia.org belongs more at !mailinglists (where it also is)
[02:03:05] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44096 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_GlobalFunctions.php: Replaced now-removed SMW method used in 'autocomplete on concept' call
[02:41:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Improve behavior of rollback if diff to last sighted version is from several authors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16467  (10danny.leinad)
[03:09:51] <yksinaisyyteni>	hmm, inkscape sucks
[03:09:56] <RingtailedFox>	how so?
[03:10:08] <yksinaisyyteni>	well for one thing i just crashed it after 30 seconds
[03:10:17] <RingtailedFox>	what did ya do to make it crash?
[03:10:26] <yksinaisyyteni>	right clicked while i was drawing a 3d box
[03:10:58] <RingtailedFox>	i had it crash on that action, too. i think it's a bug
[03:10:58] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: why can't I right-click in Konsole?
[03:11:10] <RingtailedFox>	but, you might be better off tellign them of this bug in #inkscape :)
[03:11:22] <RingtailedFox>	i mean, we're just mediawiki users, with limited knowledge (at best) of inkscape
[03:11:31] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: is there some setting somewhere?
[03:11:32] <yksinaisyyteni>	werdnum: perhaps your mouse is broken
[03:11:46] <werdnum>	I think I can right-click elsewhere.
[03:12:20] <RingtailedFox>	no no, if it works in other apps, it's not his mouse
[03:12:25] <RingtailedFox>	might be a setting with his mouse or konsole, though
[03:19:34] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44097 10/trunk/extensions/StringFunctions/StringFunctions.php: Version 2.0.3 - fix for post-MW-1.12 parser
[03:22:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Page not flaggable for non-SysOps if edits got restricted to SysOps - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16506  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[04:23:33] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44098 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (5 files in 5 dirs): prototype compatibility updates, safari compatibility updates
[04:38:06] <deltaray2>	Do I need to enable some extension to be able to use if/else stuff in templates?
[04:38:59] <str4nd>	!e ParserFunctions | deltaray2
[04:38:59] --mwbot--	deltaray2: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions
[04:39:00] <werdnum>	ParserFunctions
[05:00:19] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44099 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/mv_embed/mv_embed.js: ie fixes
[05:10:08] <deltaray2>	str4nd, thanks.
[05:13:32] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44100 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/mv_embed/mv_embed.js: minor refactor
[05:28:38] <werdnum>	Krimpet: connectiont roubles? :)
[05:28:54] <Krimpet>	werdnum, no, I updated my wireless drivers
[05:29:02] <Krimpet>	The connection cut out in the middle
[05:30:06] <werdnum>	oic.
[05:30:29] <werdnum>	I just managed to get Suspend working, but I went to the Dark Side and installed KDE 4.2 :)
[05:30:57] <str4nd>	xmonad > * > kde
[05:31:08] <werdnum>	xmonad?
[05:31:17] <str4nd>	http://xmonad.org/ !
[05:31:28] <Krimpet>	werdnum, I'm running Windows as my primary OS now, actually :p
[05:31:40] <werdnum>	Krimpet: now that's the *real* dark side.
[05:32:01] <Krimpet>	RIM doesn't like to support linux, it seems, and I gotta install stuff on my blackberry.
[05:32:29] <werdnum>	Well, there's your first mistake ;0
[05:32:30] <Krimpet>	I figured Cygwin, PuTTY, Xming, and EmacsW32 are enough to keep me at home. :)
[05:32:30] <werdnum>	;)*
[05:32:39] <Krimpet>	Mistake?
[05:32:49] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44101 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/mv_embed/mv_embed.js: minor auto-scrolling textInterface fix
[05:34:10] <werdnum>	buying a blackberry.
[05:34:19] <Krimpet>	Don't talk smack about my BlackBerry. >_>
[05:34:22] <Krimpet>	It's awesome.
[05:34:35] <werdnum>	RIM.
[05:34:52] <Krimpet>	What's wrong with RIM?
[05:35:34] <werdnum>	You just told me why.
[05:36:04] <Krimpet>	They're working on Linux capability.
[05:36:37] <yksinaisyyteni>	windows > linux
[05:37:14] <Krimpet>	werdnum, what kind of smartphone would you suggest, then? :)
[05:37:55] <werdnum>	I like Linux for its tinkerability. It's not quite ready for prime-time yet because it doesn't "just work"
[05:38:09] <werdnum>	Krimpet: I use an iPhone, which is much better than a blackberry, although it has the same drawback.
[05:38:23] <Krimpet>	werdnum, much better{{fact}}
[05:39:22] <werdnum>	Krimpet: *shrug* opinion. Sexier interface, more modifiable if you jailbreak it, better apps, etc.
[05:40:13] <Krimpet>	Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks I guess :p
[05:41:02] <werdnum>	ew
[05:41:07] <Krimpet>	Personally I prefer the full-QWERTY keyboard. And it's a lot more worth the price I think :)
[05:41:29] <werdnum>	I'm fine with the on-screen for the iPhone. I've got pretty quick at it :P
[05:42:22] <Krimpet>	My BB 8830 was $100, half the price of an iPhone, and the data plan is $20 less a month
[05:43:52] *Splarka 	still remembers http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone when people complain about the iphone not having "full qwerty"
[05:43:56] <werdnum>	whoa, I have a quarter on my desk.
[05:43:58] <Mike_lifeguard>	RIMWIN
[05:47:26] <Krimpet>	I feel bad for Barack Obama. :( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us/politics/16blackberry.html?bl&ex=1227070800&en=0fd3c2f76367617a&ei=5087%0A
[05:48:50] <Splarka>	yah yah "once you go blackberry, you never go barrack" (and too many iterations of that)
[05:49:29] <Krimpet>	Splarka, wouldn't it be the opposite? He <3's his berry.
[05:49:38] <Splarka>	but look at it this way
[05:49:48] <Splarka>	they'll probably design one just for him
[05:49:56] <Splarka>	untrackable, unhackable, secure, etc etc
[05:49:58] <Splarka>	how cool is that?
[05:50:27] <Krimpet>	Yeah, it'd be public relations gold for em
[05:50:50] <Splarka>	"We have to take away your favorite toy..." "...awww...." "and give you the presidential model"
[05:51:35] <Splarka>	same logic as planes (Air Force One baby), limos (bullet proof to 50BMG, runs on rims)... and girlfriends (can you say, Lewinski?)
[05:52:31] *Splarka 	waits for stabs
[05:54:10] *Krimpet 	chokes Splarka instead
[05:55:05] *Splarka 	turns blackberry in the face
[05:57:14] <werdnum>	hi AaronSchulz 
[06:13:49] <Splarka>	http://www.cracked.com/article_16796_15-most-completely-useless-iphone-apps.html
[06:18:53] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) SMILES support (or any other silimar specification) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16513 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (liangent)
[06:51:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Page not flaggable for non-SysOps if edits got restricted to SysOps - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16506  (10JSchulz_4587)
[07:20:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Page not flaggable for non-SysOps if edits got restricted to SysOps - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16506  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[07:55:45] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44102 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/mediawiki-defines.txt: Optional for ao_file_Ogg_Video
[08:00:11] <werdnum>	hey siebrand2 
[08:02:55] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44103 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.settings.i18n.php: Some minor fixes on r44095.
[08:12:03] <Norsys>	Hi
[08:31:49] <Duesentrieb>	oh no, we are not getting a room at FOSDEM :(
[08:32:37] <werdnum>	indeed.
[08:32:40] <werdnum>	so I heard.
[08:32:45] *werdnum 	blames siebrand.
[08:34:28] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44104 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (33 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-12-01 09:20 CET)
[08:36:42] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44105 10/trunk/extensions/AmazonPlus/AmazonPlus.i18n.php: Add file header
[08:47:23] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44106 10/trunk/extensions/ (134 files in 114 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from Betawiki (2008-12-01 09:20 CET)
[08:47:53] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Special: Allpages for namespace 0 sometimes shows project namespaces pages - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16514 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (Wiki.Melancholie)
[08:48:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special: Allpages for namespace 0 sometimes shows project namespace pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16514  summary (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[09:12:31] <_wooz>	lo
[09:29:10] <Hermanon>	hi, can i use mediawiki on my windows machine to read wiki xml dumps?
[09:35:43] <p858snake>	you would have to run a webserver such as a apache and a database like mysql
[09:37:14] <Duesentrieb>	!xampp | Hermanon
[09:37:14] --mwbot--	Hermanon: XAMPP is an easy to install bundle of Apache, MySQL, PHP, Perl, and more stuff, available for all popular operating systems - see <http://www.apachefriends.org/de/xampp.html>. For installing MediaWiki on XAMPP, see <http://tinyurl.com/2shgph> and also <http://www.nat32.com/xampp/wiki.htm>.
[09:37:46] <werdnum>	lighttpd + fastcgi ftw
[09:38:42] <Belegnar>	helo
[09:39:57] <werdnum>	gah, I swear ialex has been smoking something.
[09:39:59] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: thanx but does mediawiki work with xml dumps?
[09:40:37] <Duesentrieb>	Hermanon: it can import them. that's the whole purpose of having dumps...
[09:40:38] <Duesentrieb>	!import
[09:40:38] --mwbot--	To import pages a few pages, use Special:Import - you can also import pages directly from another wiki (see !importsources). For mass imports, use importDump.php - see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps> for details. NOTE: when using content from another wiki, follow the LICENSE TERMS, especially, attribute source and authors!
[09:41:19] <Duesentrieb>	there exist a couple of attempts to create "offline readers" that work directly on dumps... but i don't remember what they are called off-hand
[09:41:28] <Belegnar>	2 Splarka: do you remember topic about different skins for namespaces? SkinPerNamespace extension is the answer =)
[09:41:31] <Duesentrieb>	never tried, don't know if they are any good
[09:46:48] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: i've downloaded the latest xml 18gb ,do i have to import it ,or media wiki will use it instantly?
[09:47:19] <Duesentrieb>	you have to improt it
[09:48:48] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb:its 18gb ,how much time is estimated to take to import it (i have amd 6000) please ?
[09:49:47] <Duesentrieb>	don't know from GB. it's guess at 20-50 revisions per second.
[09:50:05] <Duesentrieb>	depends on a lot of things.
[09:50:10] <Duesentrieb>	just try 
[09:50:19] <Duesentrieb>	also, read about the different options for importing
[09:50:36] <Duesentrieb>	also note that plain HTML dumps exist for many wikis too
[09:50:49] <Duesentrieb>	they are much larger, but there's no need to run any software or to improt anything
[09:52:04] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: thanx a lot 
[09:55:44] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: what about using mwdumper?
[09:56:16] <Duesentrieb>	it's an option. if you donÄt have java and don't need java otherwise, it's a bit of a pain to set up, though.
[09:56:30] <Duesentrieb>	also note the bit abotu mwdumper not updating the link tables.
[09:56:52] <Duesentrieb>	do you have separate dumps for the link tables to go with your dump?
[09:57:01] <Duesentrieb>	otherwise, using mwdumper is probably slower in the end.
[09:59:20] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb:i just want a way to use the 18gb xml dump i downloaded offline ...
[09:59:39] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb:the offline readers didn't work for me
[10:00:13] <Hermanon>	so is it possible to use it with mediawiki without much pain ?
[10:00:27] <Duesentrieb>	yes, but you have to go through the slow import.
[10:00:43] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb:thanks i'll try that
[10:00:52] <Duesentrieb>	and... setting up mediawiki on your local box can be considered painful. it's a web application. it's not designed for the desktiop
[10:01:16] <Duesentrieb>	for offline reading, the html dump is really best and easiest. it's just huge.
[10:01:38] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb:i'll follow the install instructions :)
[10:02:06] <Duesentrieb>	well, you need apache, php and mysql first. the simplest way to get that is to install xampp
[10:03:39] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: thanks, the lazy man manual link u gave is very simple
[10:04:10] <Duesentrieb>	thanks - i wrote that :)
[10:04:13] <Duesentrieb>	(mostly)
[10:04:48] <Hermanon>	Duesentrieb: thank you
[10:09:30] <Belegnar>	how i can export pages from user-defined namespace with Special:Export?
[10:10:38] <Belegnar>	already found, sorry :)
[10:49:28] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) API: Add option for action=parse to do preSaveTransform - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16515 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: API; (paul.copperman)
[10:50:24] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) API: rvsection= doesn't work for included sections like " T-2" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16516 minor; normal; MediaWiki: API; (paul.copperman)
[11:26:24] <raddy>	Hello Everybody
[11:26:54] <raddy>	How do i change the password of another user without having access to DB?
[11:27:03] <raddy>	I am the Admin
[11:28:07] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Password_Reset
[11:28:36] <Splarka>	or http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:ChangePassword.php maybe
[11:28:50] <Splarka>	both require more access than just the group 'sysop' though
[11:29:00] <Splarka>	(at least access to LocalSettings)
[11:32:00] <raddy>	Splarka : do you know how to change the password via DB?
[11:32:22] <VasilievVV>	!passwordsql
[11:32:22] --mwbot--	UPDATE user SET user_password=MD5(CONCAT(user_id, '-', MD5('password'))) WHERE user_name='John Smith';  This will reset the password for the user with user_name 'John Smith' to 'password'. 
[11:32:36] <VasilievVV>	Bah
[11:32:45] <VasilievVV>	It seems to be out-of-date query
[11:33:16] <Splarka>	{{sofix
[11:51:11] *werdnum 	looks for ialex
[11:51:48] <lady_6thofAu>	is it possible to have a namespace which behaves as a category?
[11:52:32] <werdnum>	in what way?
[11:53:25] <lady_6thofAu>	e.g. if [[namespace:blah]] is included somewhere
[11:53:38] <lady_6thofAu>	then that somewhere would appear in blah
[11:53:51] <lady_6thofAu>	in a list
[11:53:52] <werdnum>	that doesn't sound feasible, because the namespaces are a part of the title.
[11:54:14] <yksinaisyyteni>	werdnum: http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt
[11:54:19] <yksinaisyyteni>	it's like Qt, but for the internets
[11:54:45] <lady_6thofAu>	werdnum what do u mean?
[11:55:54] <p858snake>	lady_6thofAu: why not just use categories then?
[11:56:12] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: that looks sexy!
[11:56:17] <lady_6thofAu>	because the role would be different
[11:56:24] <werdnum>	lady_6thofAu: well, a namespace is included in the *title* of the page.
[11:56:48] <werdnum>	e.g. Project:Foo, as a page name, has the namespace 'Project'
[11:56:51] <lady_6thofAu>	werdnum in what way there is a conflict with what i proposed?
[11:57:37] <werdnum>	lady_6thofAu: the page text can't impact the page title.
[11:57:53] <lady_6thofAu>	well, in categories it does
[11:58:28] <lady_6thofAu>	e.g. [[category:test]] makes a category:test title, doesn't it?
[11:58:56] <p858snake>	lady_6thofAu: you can also transucate (spelling?) categories into articles the same way as templates and you can also use a extenstion called DynamicPageList that does similar
[12:01:51] <werdnum>	lady_6thofAu: no no, you misunderstand.
[12:02:05] <werdnum>	For page X to be in namespace Y, X has to consist of Y:Some other text.
[12:02:39] <werdnum>	The page's namespace is impacted by its title.
[12:02:53] <werdnum>	So, no matter what you do, the page 'Project:Stuff' will always be in the 'Project' namespace.
[12:03:02] <Hermanon>	how to call importDump.php on windows xampp?
[12:03:46] <lady_6thofAu>	ok, so something like Category:text would be under "Category"
[12:03:54] <werdnum>	yes
[12:04:00] <werdnum>	'Category' is the namespace.
[12:04:02] <lady_6thofAu>	ok, i understand that
[12:04:07] <lady_6thofAu>	what im saying is that
[12:04:22] <lady_6thofAu>	if you put [[Category:text]] in some article
[12:04:29] <lady_6thofAu>	then the Category:text is generated
[12:04:32] <lady_6thofAu>	isn't it?
[12:04:43] <werdnum>	The page [[Category:Text]]?
[12:04:53] <lady_6thofAu>	no, the page Category:text
[12:05:11] <werdnum>	sorry, ignore the brackets :0
[12:05:15] <werdnum>	but anyway, yes.
[12:05:17] <lady_6thofAu>	ok
[12:05:24] <lady_6thofAu>	well, what i have in mind is
[12:05:27] <werdnum>	You want a list of all pages in a namespace?
[12:05:33] <lady_6thofAu>	no
[12:05:53] <lady_6thofAu>	i would like to put something like [[namespace:text]] in some article A
[12:06:06] <lady_6thofAu>	and that would generate the page namespace:text
[12:06:18] <lady_6thofAu>	where namespace is not "Category"
[12:07:05] <werdnum>	You can add extra names for the 'Category' namespace, but you can't currently have multiple Category namespaces.
[12:07:46] <lady_6thofAu>	would that be possible in future perhaps?
[12:08:01] <werdnum>	It's not something we're currently looking at implementing.
[12:08:07] <werdnum>	You might be interested in Semantic MediaWiki
[12:08:54] <siebrand>	with all the mails i read about dumps, I often have to suppress an urge to reply off topic about my own dump status...
[12:09:21] <werdnum>	siebrand: dumps of what?
[12:09:24] <werdnum>	!smw | lady_6thofAu 
[12:09:24] --mwbot--	lady_6thofAu: SemanticMediaWiki is an extension that lets you conenct wiki pages with semantic relations. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_MediaWiki> and <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/>. Mailing lists are available at <http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=147937>.
[12:09:58] <Hermanon>	how to call importDump.php on windows xampp please?
[12:10:14] <Splarka>	"then the Category:text is generated" ... bit of a misconception
[12:10:49] <Splarka>	the categorization of pages works without category pages, you can add to them and view the members, but they appear as red links in the catlinks and don't have a description
[12:10:50] <siebrand>	werdnum: (the constipated Wikimedia en.wp dump)
[12:11:05] <werdnum>	siebrand: ewww :)
[12:12:14] *werdnum 	grumbles @ lack of ialex.
[12:12:18] <Splarka>	hmm, werd: how hard would it be.. 
[12:12:41] <Splarka>	to have an extension check backlinks to a given page in ns-100+ (something)...
[12:12:50] <Splarka>	and show the links on the page itself (similar to categorization)
[12:13:28] <werdnum>	that'd be pretty simple.
[12:13:34] <werdnum>	It could be done with a parser tag
[12:13:41] <werdnum>	<backlinks />
[12:13:54] <Splarka>	right, or a special page hack like {{Special:Whatlinkshere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}
[12:14:04] <Splarka>	but how about if the page didn't exist (same for categorization)
[12:14:29] <werdnum>	Can be done quite simply, pagelinks stores the title as an ns/text tuple, not as a pageid
[12:14:33] <Splarka>	I suppose another hook/hack would be needed to hide links to that namespace inline, in Linker or Title
[12:15:13] <Splarka>	so, 90% of the functionality of a category is super easy, 99% with a bit of work, 100% virtually impossible
[12:16:04] <werdnum>	Special:Whatlinkshere works for non-existent pages.
[12:16:12] <werdnum>	Hiding inline links would be a pain, of course.
[12:16:47] <Splarka>	right, so you could do 50% of a category simply by having pages in [[Namespace:]] be a link to [[Special:Whatlinkshere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}]]
[12:17:07] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) link git://example.org/ just like you do for gopher://example. org/ - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16478  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[12:17:11] <Splarka>	you could even do that in Newarticletext and Noarticletext so it always showed, even if the page didn't exist
[12:17:44] <Splarka>	heh, and (javascript crazy) you could have a script fetch the list from the API X_X
[12:17:56] <Splarka>	that wouldn't even need an extension
[12:17:58] *werdnum 	waits for his commit to show up...
[12:18:15] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44107 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (Configure.obj.php Configure.page.php): 
[12:18:15] <CIA-8>	Deprecate WebConfiguration::getDefaultsForWiki()
[12:18:15] <CIA-8>	I've spent an hour or so reading the code, and testing it, and I have seen no
[12:18:15] <CIA-8>	evidence to indicate that this actually gets the defaults for a wiki, rather
[12:18:15] <CIA-8>	than what it appears to do, which is getting the *overridden* settings for a
[12:18:18] <CIA-8>	foreign wiki.
[12:18:20] <CIA-8>	This is causing bugs on at least one of my installs.
[12:18:36] <Splarka>	so, is committing like putting some code in a straight jacket, and throwing it into a little padded room, and then staring at it through a little barred window?
[12:18:45] <Splarka>	(or do you feel like the one in the room)
[12:20:35] <werdnum>	huh?
[12:28:31] <lolo92>	hello
[12:28:48] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44108 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.page.php: Fix r44107 by changing where the problem was actually occurring :)
[12:28:52] <lolo92>	i have an error when trying to upgrade to 1.13
[12:28:59] <lolo92>	Fatal error: Cannot redeclare wfloadallextensions() (previously declared in /var/www/wiki_new/includes/AutoLoader.php:524) in /var/www/wiki/includes/AutoLoader.php on line 429
[12:35:52] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44109 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.settings.i18n.php: Fix blatantly wrong setting description
[12:49:32] <svip>	Uhm.
[12:49:44] <svip>	I keep getting "Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still does not work, try logging out and logging back in." when editing.
[12:49:52] <svip>	And apparently all other users get it.
[12:50:20] <svip>	And logging out and in doesn't fix it.
[12:50:49] <Duesentrieb>	!session | svip
[12:50:49] --mwbot--	svip: make sure session.save_path is set correctly in your php.ini. Verify that it exists, is readable and writable to PHP, and check that session data is actually being written there. On a server farm, make sure it's a shared directory, accessible from all servers.
[12:51:19] <svip>	Well, Duesentrieb, it has been working fine until now.
[12:51:34] <Duesentrieb>	svip: well, if it stoped working, *something* changed.
[12:51:41] <svip>	Yeah, I know who to talk to.
[12:52:26] <svip>	hah, I just write "hey" to him, and his first response; "I know, I'm working on it."
[12:52:53] <Nikerabbit>	lolo92: your path settings are wrong, it tried to load file from the old installation
[12:56:13] <lolo92>	Nikerabbit: yes thanks ;)
[12:56:45] <bobkare>	I migrated our wiki to postgres (because every other database here is postgres and we don't want to care about mysql just for the wiki) but it thinks every revision is from 1970-01-01. Both the imported ones (xml import) and new ones. both mediawiki and postgres installed from debian etch apt repo, versions 1.7.1-9etch0 and 8.1.13-0etch1.
[12:57:53] <Nikerabbit>	2006-07-08: 1.7.1, 1.6.8 bug fix releases 
[12:58:01] <Nikerabbit>	in other words, 1.7.1 is ancient
[12:58:22] <Duesentrieb>	also, postgress support is... based on luck.
[12:58:33] <Duesentrieb>	in some version it works, in others it doesn't.
[12:59:11] <Duesentrieb>	and, last but not leasr: third party packages tend to suck terribly. don
[12:59:16] <Duesentrieb>	don#t ask why.
[13:00:52] <bobkare>	oh I'm sure maintainers break too much by actually integrating software into an operating system
[13:00:56] <bobkare>	bah
[13:01:50] <bobkare>	Nikerabbit: why should ancient be a problem? it's more or less the reason debian works and is as rock solid as it is
[13:04:27] <Nikerabbit>	bobkare: that ideology does not apply that well into webapps, however
[13:04:45] <Duesentrieb>	bobkare: one problem is: people don't remember how shit was in the old days.
[13:04:50] <Duesentrieb>	hard to get support.
[13:05:21] <Nikerabbit>	no, that's the reason you can't get support (from here)
[13:05:26] <Duesentrieb>	docs, mailing lists, online discussions, extensions all don't apply to your versions.
[13:05:40] <Duesentrieb>	Nikerabbit: yea - which is a problem :)
[13:05:51] <Duesentrieb>	ancient is ok *if* it works and you don't have to touch it.
[13:06:01] <Duesentrieb>	anyway, gotta go.
[13:06:37] <bobkare>	bleh, well, will have a look at upgrading then.
[13:07:07] <Nikerabbit>	and it is not about package maintainers breaking things, we just don't know what they have done
[13:18:58] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44110 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (10 files): Implement reasons for both handlers, and port recording of which user did what into the files handler.
[13:19:18] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44111 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.handler-files.php: Change file handler to use safer PHP files for storage instead of serialized files. This way, people can't read the contents on a default installation.
[13:19:52] <werdnum>	w00t!
[13:19:54] <werdnum>	r44111!
[13:21:13] <Splarka>	and it is prime
[14:01:56] <piksi>	is there a way in the mediawiki skins to redefine how for example a ==topic== is formatted (other than just redefining its css, i mean is there a way to add custom html output)?
[14:03:01] <agaran>	parserhook somewhere? (but am not mediawiki expert)
[14:06:30] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/EditSectionLink and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/EditSectionLinkForOther maybe
[14:06:46] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/DoEditSectionLink
[14:10:32] *werdnum 	commits
[14:10:33] <werdnum>	whee
[14:10:58] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44112 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (7 files): 
[14:10:58] <CIA-8>	Visually indicate settings which have been changed from the default, and provide mechanisms for showing how the current settings (or indeed any settings) are different from the default, as well as
[14:10:58] <CIA-8>	displaying the default settings themselves.
[14:10:58] <CIA-8>	Also, fix a JS bug.
[14:11:23] <piksi>	Splarka: something like that, yes. so that hook handles the rendering of both the title and edit link?
[14:11:52] <Splarka>	well, the hook interrupts execution therein...
[14:12:20] <Splarka>	but note that it probably isn't called if there is no edit link, like on preview, if the user has no edit right, if __NOEDITSECTION__ is present, etc
[14:12:42] <Splarka>	so you might want one of the more general page rendering hooks if you want to edit all <h#>
[14:13:09] <werdnum>	Whee, look at all the stuff I've done - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Werdna/Configure_todo
[14:14:22] <piksi>	Splarka: yeah, i was going to replace the header tags with divs (which would contain more information and rendering)
[14:14:24] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44113 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/ (SF_FormInputs.inc SF_FormPrinter.inc): 
[14:14:24] <CIA-8>	Added manual loading of Semantic MediaWiki's message values, for use by
[14:14:24] <CIA-8>	checkboxes
[14:14:47] <werdnum>	c-c-c-combo-breaker.
[14:15:16] <werdnum>	I had 6 commits in a row :(
[14:16:22] <Splarka>	commitcountitis
[14:16:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Error when entering Special:BrowseData with SMW 1.4 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16229  (10agile.cases)
[14:17:02] <Splarka>	OldIndianCommiter say... he who commits loudest and longest, says the least
[14:17:38] <piksi>	:-)
[14:18:04] <Simetrical>	werdna|away, you should do like ten small commits locally and then commit them all at once using git svn dcommit.
[14:26:11] <izackv>	 Hi, I'm trying to build a wiki site with some pages in Hebrew (RTL) and some pages in English (LTR)
[14:26:40] <piksi>	Splarka: sorry, can't seem to find a hook which would be responsible for htmlizing of ==-tags, ? propably some hook that goes through the whole article when rendering it?
[14:27:01] <izackv>	Is there a way to define a page in specific lang. and have the data flows (Including the TOC) in the right direction? (Heb -> RTL, Eng -> LTR)
[14:27:26] <izackv>	(I installed wiki as English because this is the main lang. in use)
[14:28:43] <Splarka>	piksi: you'll probably just have to go through the "Page Rendering" hooks and find which one you can abuse
[14:30:42] <Splarka>	piksi: worst case, you might manually have to find <h2> and strip them in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/ParserBeforeTidy
[14:31:00] <Splarka>	although possibly keeping them and wrapping them in your <div> (and augmenting) would be better
[14:32:30] <piksi>	Splarka: in either case, doesn't that mean that i have to go through the $text and either replace <h2> tags with divs or add divs in between them with the ParserBeforeTidy to produce the correct output? What does augmenting mean?
[14:32:45] <Splarka>	augmenting = adding shit
[14:32:50] <piksi>	:->
[14:34:05] <Splarka>	and yah, that.. or try to redesign how to parse it in the raw wikicode, which seems a really bad idea..
[14:35:06] <Splarka>	headers can be funny... like =H1= inside unnamed template call parameters...
[14:35:46] <Splarka>	hmm, you might be able to hook the preprocessor though
[14:37:39] <piksi>	Splarka: actually what i would have to do is just replace the part of the core source where the parser does ==X== --> <h2>x</h2>, and although i don't like modifying the sources it would seem like the easiest (and less overhead) solution.. then i'd just have to remember to change it after each update
[14:37:46] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Expression error in image loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16517 normal; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (voschix)
[14:39:42] <Splarka>	piksi: can of worms
[14:40:14] <Splarka>	you may be interested in learning about the parser then... good place start with an overview http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Preprocessor_ABNF
[15:09:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Fatal Error in Special:AllMessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16497  (10innocentkiller)
[15:09:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special:AllMessages is too large - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15389  (10innocentkiller)
[15:12:19] <werdnum>	Simetrical: well yes, that would be cheating though :)
[15:12:41] <werdnum>	Simetrical: plus, I have to update my todo list with the revision number, which doesn't work unless i have a revision number.
[15:13:13] *werdnum 	stumbles off to bed.
[15:22:05] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44114 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/includes/SF_GlobalFunctions.php: Fix for SF's special properties in other languages
[15:27:43] <Belegnar>	helo another time
[15:27:43] <Belegnar>	how can i get article body via API?
[15:29:31] <lolo92>	i have installe StubManager plugins and now when i do on the page "Version", i have this error messages:
[15:29:33] <lolo92>	Warning: call_user_func_array() [function.call-user-func-array]: First argument is expected to be a valid callback, 'StubManager' was given in /var/www/wiki/includes/Hooks.php on line 117
[15:29:51] <lolo92>	i use madiawiki 1.13.2 and stubmanager 1.3.1
[15:32:06] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Related Changes doesn' t work with transcluded special pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16518 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (aviy)
[15:32:56] <Splarka>	Belegnar: action=parse&page=Foo ?
[15:34:59] <Belegnar>	<api>
[15:34:59] <Belegnar>	?
[15:34:59] <Belegnar>	<parse>
[15:34:59] <Belegnar>	?
[15:34:59] <Belegnar>	<text>
[15:35:00] <Belegnar>	<!-- 
[15:35:02] <Belegnar>	NewPP limit report
[15:35:04] <Belegnar>	Preprocessor node count: 1/1000000
[15:35:06] <Belegnar>	Post-expand include size: 0/2097152 bytes
[15:35:08] <Belegnar>	Template argument size: 0/2097152 bytes
[15:35:10] <Belegnar>	Expensive parser function count: 0/100
[15:35:12] <Belegnar>	-->
[15:35:14] <Belegnar>	</text>
[15:35:16] <Belegnar>	<langlinks/>
[15:35:18] <Belegnar>	<categories/>
[15:35:20] <Belegnar>	<links/>
[15:35:22] <Belegnar>	<templates/>
[15:35:24] <Belegnar>	<images/>
[15:35:26] <Belegnar>	<externallinks/>
[15:35:28] <Belegnar>	<sections/>
[15:35:30] <Belegnar>	</parse>
[15:35:32] <Belegnar>	</api>
[15:35:34] <Belegnar>	this is not look like content of the article
[15:35:34] <siebrand>	!paste | Belegnar
[15:35:34] --mwbot--	Belegnar: Please do not paste more than 2-3 lines of text into the channel as it disrupts the flow of conversation. Instead please use a pastebin such as <http://mediawiki.pastey.net> and post a link to your paste in the channel.
[15:38:26] <Splarka>	Belegnar: it is, [WORKSFORME]
[15:38:31] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=parse&page=Foo
[15:41:13] <Utopiah>	hi
[15:42:32] <Utopiah>	anybody tried a tool that incrementaly generate a page from wikipedia based on the page history on a local mediawiki installation? (in order to study the genesis of the page)
[15:48:02] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) cortado should provide API close to html5 <video> element - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16519 15enhancement; normal; Cortado: User interface; (j)
[15:48:30] <Belegnar>	Splarka: thx a lot - this is it
[15:48:30] <Belegnar>	where can i find manual to this action?
[15:48:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) cortado should provide API close to html5 <video> element - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16519  (10j)
[15:48:58] <CIA-8>	03ashley * r44115 10/trunk/extensions/SocialProfile/UserProfile/UserProfile.i18n.php: *sigh*
[15:50:00] <siebrand>	Utopiah: IIRC IBM has developed software that does that.
[15:50:21] <siebrand>	Utopiah: http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/results.htm
[15:50:52] <Splarka>	Belegnar: there isn't really one, just see api.php with no parameters for overview of all actions
[15:51:02] <Splarka>	(or try your luck on mediawiki.org)
[15:51:52] <Utopiah>	siebrand: thank you but unfortunately I know this and also wikitrust and also wikismarm
[15:52:18] <Utopiah>	s/wikismarm/wikiswarm/
[15:53:23] <Utopiah>	but Im looking for a live generation of the page itself that is being rendered so that you can see the content too
[15:56:38] <Belegnar>	Splarka: ok, thx!
[16:09:39] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) documentation issue: wrong path given in install instructions - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16520 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (chr.pietsch+mw)
[16:17:12] <jouhle>	Hi, I'm fixing a bug atm and looking for a way to find out wether a user i'm having the UserID of is a sysop or not. Anyone having a good idea?
[16:20:11] <Splarka>	User::getEffectiveGroups ?
[16:22:25] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44116 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.handler-db.php: 
[16:22:25] <CIA-8>	*Short-circuit NFS check
[16:22:25] <CIA-8>	*Use unique cv_id key, rather than cv_timestamp for "latest" update query
[16:22:25] <CIA-8>	*Add comments
[16:23:07] <jouhle>	@Splarka: okay, and how am i'm getting a UserObject from just the id as integer?
[16:24:55] <jouhle>	possibly User::loadFromId ^^
[16:25:45] <Splarka>	seems so
[16:26:02] <jouhle>	no. wrong one. User::newFromId($id)
[16:26:07] <garnol>	My wiki does not seem to be loaded. It is a .gif ist that a problem?
[16:26:58] <garnol>	i added an gif to /var/www/wiki/skins/common/images/wikilogo.gif --- when i add this to the Localsettings it is not loaded
[16:27:18] <garnol>	$wgLogo = '/var/www/wiki/skins/common/images/wikilogo.gif'; This is what i added to the LocalSettings.php
[16:29:20] <Splarka>	use the http path, not file path
[16:30:29] <garnol>	what is the http like for /var/www/wiki/skins/common/images/wikilogo.gif ??
[16:30:46] <ialex>	try /wiki/skins/common/images/wikilogo.gif 
[16:32:07] <garnol>	ok
[16:32:32] <Splarka>	depends on your stylepath, which depends on your scriptpath, which depends on your settings, which depends on the price of tea in... er.. or not
[16:33:17] <Splarka>	($wgMakeMediaWikiHelpersPsychic = true; helps0
[16:33:20] <Splarka>	)
[16:49:07] <CIA-8>	03jojo * r44117 10/trunk/extensions/Collection/Collection.body.php: submit user agent information to mw-serve
[16:51:40] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44118 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (4 files): Add comments
[16:56:06] <cpt-nemo>	hi all
[16:57:05] <cpt-nemo>	I'm looking for public inquiry system for mediawiki. Any ideas?
[17:02:18] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44119 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ChangesList.php: Remove extract() comment
[17:04:43] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44120 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (Configure.obj.php Configure.page.php Configure.settings.php): 
[17:04:43] <CIA-8>	* Use per-object cache in ConfigurationSettings, since static variables inside methods seems to be shared between all objects, resulting in horrible errors while saving settings
[17:04:43] <CIA-8>	* Fixed E_NOTICE in Configure.page.php
[17:07:09] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: +	 * FIXME: timestamp is not unique (in Configure.handler-files.php), since file names are based on timestamp, this is like "unique"
[17:12:45] <wikibugs>	03(mod) user native getElementsByClassName - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16459  (10hartman)
[17:14:19] <Vyznev>	ok, big commit coming up, sorry for any conflicts :)
[17:14:46] <Nikerabbit>	hy Vyznev
[17:14:47] <AaronSchulz>	ialex: cv_timestamp is not UNIQUE
[17:14:55] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: files, not db
[17:14:57] <CIA-8>	03vyznev * r44121 10/trunk/phase3/ (232 files in 11 dirs): 
[17:14:58] <CIA-8>	Step 2 in NS_IMAGE -> NS_FILE transition (bug 44) (WARNING: huge commit).
[17:14:58] <CIA-8>	This is a global search and replace of NS_IMAGE and NS_IMAGE_TALK with NS_FILE and NS_FILE_TALK respectively in all core files, excluding those already updated in step 1 (r44004).
[17:15:01] <AaronSchulz>	hmm, if two people save at the same time, the file cache just copies over it
[17:15:17] <AaronSchulz>	:s
[17:16:08] <ialex>	Probability is near 0 though
[17:16:30] <AaronSchulz>	ialex: I'd rather deal with it, at least in the hacky way, like images do
[17:16:48] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: check if the file exists?
[17:17:01] <AaronSchulz>	and add 1 second if it does to the new one
[17:17:07] <Vyznev>	in general, considering the edit rate some Wikimedia wikis get, we've done surprisingly well treating 1-second resolution timestamps as if they were unique in a lot of places
[17:17:29] <Vyznev>	of course, we usually only treat them as unique in the context of a single page
[17:18:10] <AaronSchulz>	on RC, about 10 - 30 have the same ts on en wiki, of course, none of this matters :)
[17:18:20] <AaronSchulz>	(in a row)
[17:18:24] <svip>	Are there any scripts to backup a MediaWiki?
[17:19:15] <svip>	And then reimport them?
[17:20:18] <svip>	Wait nevermind.
[17:20:25] <svip>	I am just going to do a MySQLdump.
[17:20:33] <AaronSchulz>	ialex: would need a for loop to *really* be perfect :D
[17:20:45] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: :D
[17:21:06] <ialex>	AaronSchulz: and make cv_timestamp unique
[17:23:08] <jimbojw>	is there an extension or setting which converts smart quotes, emdashes, elipses and other copy-pasted MS chars to ASCII equivalent strings at save time?  I thought there was, but my grep-foo is weak today.
[17:24:46] <Nikerabbit>	never heard of such
[17:25:44] <jimbojw>	thanks Nikerabbit - i could have sworn that such a thing existed, oh well :/
[17:26:20] *jimbojw 	trudges off to add an edit toolbar button
[17:32:09] <svip>	You know, it would be nice to have a diff even for new articles.
[17:32:41] <svip>	That way, you could see if the user had added templates or other fun stuff upon first creation, without having to click the article and go view the source.
[17:37:09] <Vyznev>	well, isn't there a revision edit link you can click?
[17:37:22] <Vyznev>	but yeah, it would be nicer if it were consistent
[17:44:21] <garnol>	Hi, what are the advantages of GD library and ImageMagick?
[17:44:29] <garnol>	When should i use which?
[17:56:25] <AaronSchulz>	brion: one holiday indeed
[17:56:39] *AaronSchulz 	stayed in his dorm to do work over the break
[18:03:20] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44122 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/SpecialMagic.php: bug 44 related change: NS_IMAGE -> NS_FILE
[18:03:28] <garnol>	When is it better to use GDlibrary and not ImageMagick?
[18:03:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Page not flaggable for non-SysOps if edits got restricted to SysOps - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16506  (10JSchulz_4587)
[18:04:07] <AaronSchulz>	garnol: for what end?
[18:04:27] <garnol>	AaronSchulz: what do you mean by "end" ?
[18:05:05] <garnol>	AaronSchulz: when i get it right, it both resizes uploaded images. For which needs shell i use which one?
[18:05:08] <AaronSchulz>	for what purpose?
[18:05:28] <luna6>	stupid question but if i want to downgrade from 1.13 to 1.12 by uploading new files - any chance I will encounter problems because of possible schema differences?
[18:05:33] <AaronSchulz>	is this for svgs or images in general?
[18:05:59] <garnol>	Purpose is my own enzyclopedia i run to save information of my studies
[18:06:14] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) SiteStatsUpdate warning with MySQL 5.1.30 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16521 normal; normal; MediaWiki: Database; (david)
[18:06:52] <garnol>	what are svgs?
[18:07:10] <garnol>	xD, you see i am new to Mediawiki
[18:07:48] <AaronSchulz>	SVG is a type of image
[18:08:01] <AaronSchulz>	garnol: I would tend to say GD
[18:10:36] <garnol>	SVG is not the format i am using. So GD fits better for little local servers and personal needs?
[18:10:58] <AaronSchulz>	GD fits for that yes, as well as large servers
[18:11:45] <AaronSchulz>	wikipedia would use GD were it not for that fact that there are many old boxes were you'd have to fiddle around re-compiling php to add gd
[18:14:28] <yksinaisyyteni>	no it wouldn't
[18:14:31] <yksinaisyyteni>	GD's rendering quality is awful
[18:22:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Increasing number of requested results to 500 can make search return no results at all - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16522 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Search; (cbm)
[18:26:53] <AaronSchulz>	yksinaisyyteni: really? :(
[18:30:20] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44123 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticResultFormats/SRF_Messages.php: Removed 'srfc_desc' value - unnecessary
[18:31:20] <AaronSchulz>	seems ok to me
[18:31:38] *AaronSchulz 	uses gd on his test wiki
[18:35:52] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44124 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (CHANGELOG Configure.php migrateFiles.php): 
[18:35:52] <CIA-8>	* CHANGELOG entry and bump version
[18:35:52] <CIA-8>	* quick script migrateFiles.php for b/c
[18:36:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  +comment (10johan.uhle)
[18:37:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  (10johan.uhle)
[18:37:38] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  +comment (10johan.uhle)
[18:40:00] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[18:42:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491   +need-review +patch (10raimond.spekking)
[18:43:16] <sherrod>	hello everyone
[18:43:25] <sherrod>	is there a mediawiki extension to use OpenID?
[18:43:49] <sherrod>	http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2335707,00.asp - I'm guessing there;s not one for that yet, but maybe someone will be super sweet and write one?
[18:46:21] <ialex>	!e OpenID
[18:46:21] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OpenID
[18:56:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide some method to blank messages like MediaWiki:Excontent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12647  +comment (10paul.copperman)
[18:56:33] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) impossible to blank default deletion summary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16493  +comment (10paul.copperman)
[18:56:35] <sherrod>	Also, is anyone here using SocialProfile?
[19:00:02] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Provide some method to blank messages like MediaWiki:Excontent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12647  +comment (10mikelifeguard)
[19:19:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide some method to blank messages like MediaWiki:Excontent - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12647  +comment (10niklas.laxstrom)
[19:21:31] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44125 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticCompoundQueries/SCQ_QueryProcessor.php: Added check for ImagePage::getDisplayedFile(); it's a fairly recent method
[19:25:52] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44126 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticCompoundQueries/ (README SCQ_Settings.php): New version: 0.2.1
[19:26:29] <S-i-A>	can remove use from user list? just from user List?
[19:27:53] <S-i-A>	or can i disable (hide) SpecialPages for * visitors?
[19:36:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide some method to blank messages like MediaWiki:Excontent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12647  (10happy_melon)
[19:41:17] <TheBeast>	I have mysql backups from one mediawiki installation and I'd like to import them in a new installation, that hasn't been touched yet. so no content at all in the new mediawiki install
[19:41:27] <TheBeast>	any suggestions on how to do that?
[19:52:40] <brion>	mornin all
[19:53:07] <brion>	TheBeast: well, simplest would be to drop the empty mediawiki database, read in the backed-up one, and run the mediawiki upgrades on it :)
[19:53:49] <TheBeast>	brion: yes, that's what I did. I imported the dump into the NEW database (different name, created by me with full access rights)
[19:54:08] <TheBeast>	I'm not sure what you mean by running 'mediawiki upgrades'
[19:54:35] <brion>	php maintenance/update.php
[19:54:40] <brion>	to ensure the db structure is up to date
[19:56:52] <TheBeast>	No superuser credentials could be found.
[19:56:56] <TheBeast>	argh
[19:57:18] <TheBeast>	do i need to supply the admin password for the wiki?
[19:58:12] <amerigo>	yes please
[20:01:29] <brion>	that helps ya
[20:01:57] <TheBeast>	and by that you mean I must be logged in as administrator in the web interface while importing the thing?
[20:02:17] <amerigo>	no u have to mention ur password in here
[20:02:21] <TheBeast>	I don't see a way of providing the admin password to the update.php script
[20:02:26] <theocrite>	Hi
[20:02:36] <TheBeast>	amerigo: it's not funny you know
[20:02:44] <ialex>	TheBeast: AdminSettings.php
[20:02:58] <ialex>	(see AdminSettings.sample in root dir of MediaWiki)
[20:03:15] <theocrite>	Is there a way to have a namespace (or anything else with a group of page) either only editable or readable by sysops or bureaucrats or bots etc. ?
[20:03:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) documentation issue: wrong path given in install instructions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16520  +comment (10chr.pietsch+mw)
[20:03:19] <TheBeast>	crap you're riiiiight. that sits in the top dir and provides whatever credentials the app needs in order to do stuff
[20:03:23] <TheBeast>	you're so right, I love you
[20:03:32] <ialex>	:)
[20:05:18] <Nikerabbit>	hi ialex
[20:05:31] <ialex>	hello Nikerabbit
[20:05:52] <^demon>	brion: First: happy birthday. Second: Did you ever get a change to look at my comments on bug 16451?
[20:09:03] <brion>	^demon: thx :D
[20:09:08] <brion>	mm probably not just yet. moment
[20:10:18] <^demon>	alrighty :)
[20:12:14] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44127 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/Article.php): * (bug 12647) Allow autogenerated edit summary messages to be blanked with '-'
[20:12:58] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Provide some method to blank messages like MediaWiki:Excontent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12647  +comment (10brion)
[20:16:02] <wikibugs>	14(DUP)  Increasing number of requested results to 500 can make search return no results at all - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16522  +comment (10rainman)
[20:16:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Searches that are complex and/ or ask for a large number of results falsely return 'no results' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16236  +comment (10rainman)
[20:16:51] <TheBeast>	ialex: just a heads up. what I need to to is import my working mysql dump that contains all the articles into my new database, then run php maintenance/update.php while having AdminSettings.php in the top directory?
[20:17:25] <ialex>	TheBeast: yes
[20:18:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interwiki links from a secure page should be to a secure page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16432  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[20:19:31] <^demon>	bah typo :(
[20:25:19] <TheBeast>	ialex: works, thanks
[20:25:31] <ialex>	no problem :)
[20:25:34] <TheBeast>	the simplicity of the php webapps makes me actually think twice about PHP
[20:25:46] <TheBeast>	I find it a mess, I find it really disgusting but it works
[20:25:50] <TheBeast>	it does the darn job
[20:26:49] <carl-m>	wait... bugzilla has a "search" component and a "lucene-search-2" component?
[20:27:47] <carl-m>	and a "Lucene Search" component
[20:28:04] <Mike_lifeguard>	\o/
[20:28:20] <carl-m>	and a "MWSearch" component
[20:28:35] <Mike_lifeguard>	that one actually is different, I think
[20:28:48] <Vyznev>	carl-m: use Special:Version too see which one your wiki uses
[20:29:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[20:30:00] <carl-m>	Vyznev: interesting. enwiki shows "MWSearch" but bug 16236 is for lucene-search-2
[20:30:32] <carl-m>	and I mistakenly used "search" when I filed a bug
[20:31:05] <ialex>	carl-m: lucene-search-2 is the backend
[20:31:33] <carl-m>	I just read the MWSearch page, that explained a lot
[20:32:18] <Vyznev>	hmm... okay, so lucene-search-2 is under "Wikimedia"... I suppose that makes some kind of sense, but it _is_ rather confusing to random users who just want to report a bug :)
[20:33:26] <carl-m>	I guess the bugs can always be reassigned to the right product, I just feel dumb for looking to see if the bug was already filed, but looking in the wrong place
[20:33:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Users can login with global account and create an account in a wiki even if IP is blocked from account creations - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11148  (10mohsensalek)
[20:34:03] <Vyznev>	I find the selection of components for the "Wikimedia" product somewhat less than useful in general... I don't think I've ever filed a bug there under anything other than "General/Unknown"
[20:36:12] <carl-m>	most of them look specific enough but unlikely to have many bugs
[20:36:32] <Vyznev>	the real trick with filing Wikimedia bugs seems to be judicious use of the "shell" keyword
[20:36:49] <Vyznev>	apparently that's something that gets grepped for
[20:41:48] <Duesentrieb>	Vyznev: it better be something that actually needs shell access
[20:50:40] <piksi>	the hook manual says: Event handlers are registered by adding them to the global $wgHooks array for a given event. Hooks can be added from any point in the execution before the hook is called, but are most commonly added in LocalSettings.php or its included files. 
[20:51:05] <piksi>	but if i add my hook function and its reference to the hook array in the localsettings - the wiki complains about "headers already sent"
[20:51:39] <^demon>	If I wanted to write a parser function like {{something:value|param1=a|param2=b}}, what would be the easiest way to go about it?
[20:51:43] <piksi>	i haven't found any information from the wiki of how to initialize it correctly or how to build a (very simple) extension that would hook into the parserbeforetidy
[20:52:26] <Duesentrieb>	piksi: if it complains about headers already sent, you are very likely generating output where you shouldn't
[20:52:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582  (10mrzmanwiki)
[20:52:36] <Duesentrieb>	probably because ouy have blank lines at the end of your files
[20:52:42] <Duesentrieb>	php sucks like that
[20:55:32] <mheld>	hey y'all
[20:59:23] <piksi>	Duesentrieb: ah, that was the issue. thanks for noting out this "feature"
[21:07:09] <Vyznev>	Duesentrieb: yes, of course, but a rarely find myself filing bugs under "Wikimedia" for anything else
[21:09:04] <Vyznev>	piksi: the best solution to that is to leave out the "?>" bit entirely
[21:09:28] <Vyznev>	it's prefectly legal PHP, and makes sure you won't be emitting any accidental blank lines
[21:09:51] <Duesentrieb>	yep, it's not pretty, but good practice
[21:09:58] <Duesentrieb>	doesn't help against BOMs though
[21:10:03] <blebleble>	are there any add-ons for mediawiki to handle work/shift logs? (basically at the end of the day posting a log of what was completed etc so people can read whats going on and have it done on a daily basis)
[21:11:18] <Duesentrieb>	blebleble: havn't tried any, but i hear openwetware has written such an extension. bon't know where they publish their stuff
[21:11:35] <Duesentrieb>	they use it as a lob log
[21:11:38] <Duesentrieb>	err, lab
[21:12:26] <blebleble>	Duesentrieb: thanks, looking into it
[21:18:47] <mheld>	I was wondering if I would be able to link a wiki article to a document on the same server
[21:19:07] <mheld>	I want it to read from that document every time the article is read
[21:23:41] <Duesentrieb>	!e HTMLets | mheld
[21:23:41] --mwbot--	mheld: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:HTMLets
[21:24:11] <mheld>	aha
[21:24:16] <mheld>	thanks!
[21:30:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colour-coding of items in page histories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5491  +comment (10johan.uhle)
[21:36:03] <CIA-8>	03skizzerz * r44128 10/trunk/extensions/RegexFunctions/RegexFunctions.php: * slight bugfix for RegexFunctions where the sanitation process misinterprets some things as internal options
[21:36:33] <CIA-8>	03demon * r44129 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/Article.php): (bug 16026) MediaWiki:Revision-info should accept wikimarkup
[21:38:34] <ialex>	^demon:  array( 'parseinline', 'escapenoentities' ) <- parseinline is sufficient
[21:39:12] <^demon>	I didn't know parseinline also escaped :)
[21:39:20] <^demon>	I knew it removed the extra <p>
[21:39:30] <ialex>	parseinline is parsed
[21:40:17] <ialex>	if you escape it, you can't make links
[21:40:55] <CIA-8>	03demon * r44130 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: Cleanup to r44129, only need parseinline per ialex.
[21:41:54] <lch>	I need to do looping, have MW 1.13.2 and the ParserFunctions installed, do I need anything else?
[21:42:00] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) MediaWiki:Revision-info should accept wikimarkup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16026  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[21:43:19] <werdnum>	mooorning
[21:46:32] <AaronSchulz>	brion: soooo, how's code review? :)
[21:47:33] <werdnum>	ialex: AaronSchulz will bug you in a moment.
[21:47:56] <ialex>	werdnum: about to be bed time :(
[21:48:01] <werdnum>	ialex: okie
[21:49:55] <lch>	anybody? how can I do looping?
[21:50:11] <werdnum>	lch: not included in ParserFunctions.
[21:50:17] <lch>	ok thx
[21:50:47] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: why do you think the DB handler has O(n) overhead?
[21:50:58] <werdnum>	There isn't even a loop in most of the methods you pointed to...
[21:51:17] <werdnum>	unless by 'n' you mean the number of settings.
[21:51:35] <werdnum>	Are you sure you didn't mean to put those comments on the files handler?
[21:53:34] <AaronSchulz>	foreach ( $ret as $row ) {
[21:53:35] <AaronSchulz>				$arr[$row->cv_wiki][$row->cs_name] = unserialize( $row->cs_value );
[21:53:37] <AaronSchulz>			}
[21:53:53] <werdnum>	right, so O(n) on the number of settings.
[21:54:35] <werdnum>	Which will, in the worst case, be about 500, although almost certainly far less.
[21:55:25] <AaronSchulz>	every setting for every wiki?
[21:55:56] <werdnum>	for the moment, it looks like that.
[21:56:18] <werdnum>	Still, that's a typical case of 20*500 settings
[21:57:43] <brion>	AaronSchulz: little behind :D
[21:57:46] <brion>	what's up
[21:58:15] <werdnum>	> $arr = array(); $st = microtime( true ); for( $i=0; $i<10000; ++$i ) { $arr['foo'] = unserialize($serialized); } $en = microtime(true); print "Took ".($en-$st)." seconds\n";
[21:58:18] <werdnum>	Took 0.0158250331879 seconds
[21:58:35] <AaronSchulz>	brion: a little :p
[21:58:45] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: so, assuming we have 1000 settings, then the typical case is 15ms to extract them all from the DB.
[21:58:59] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: But remember that this is cached both in memcached and in the filesystem.
[21:59:12] <werdnum>	I think that 15ms added to request time every few hours is acceptable.
[21:59:39] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44131 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevision.php: Page id query tweaks
[21:59:39] <brion>	monday after holiday is pretty much a day when nothing gets done but catching up :D
[22:00:19] <werdnum>	brion: you silly americans, going on holiday.
[22:00:49] <werdnum>	Then again, I took advantage of Thanksgiving myself, figured you weren't around so I may as well move my weekend forward a few days and go to the mountains with my gf.
[22:01:27] <brion>	awwwww yeahhhhhh
[22:01:32] <brion>	camping is fun
[22:01:38] <werdnum>	haha, we didn't camp :P
[22:01:48] <brion>	awwwwww righhhhhht
[22:01:54] <werdnum>	We just booked into a 'motor inn' and hung around in the country towns.
[22:02:04] <brion>	:)
[22:03:23] <werdnum>	saw that 'Australia' movie.
[22:04:26] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: The only place I can see that unserialize() overhead being big is in getArchiveVersions, which really really needs a $limit parameter so we don't fetch a thousand old revisions.
[22:04:59] <ialex>	Special:ViewConfig uses a pager
[22:05:00] <AaronSchulz>	yeah, $limit would help
[22:05:06] <RoanKattouw>	werdnum: Fetch stuff from the DB without limits? Better make sure Domas doesn't hear that ;)
[22:05:31] <werdnum>	ialex: yeah, but the list at the top doesn't :)
[22:05:41] <ialex>	uh oh
[22:06:08] <werdnum>	You're also using in_array( $oldVersions, $oldVersion ) to check if a revision name is valid.
[22:06:31] <RoanKattouw>	werdnum: Wrong parameter order?
[22:06:32] <werdnum>	I think we should use is_array( $wgConf->getOldSettings( $oldVersion ) );
[22:06:39] <werdnum>	ugh, I hate PHP so much.
[22:06:49] <werdnum>	Is it needle, haystack, or is it haystack_needle?
[22:06:57] <werdnum>	Is it xtoy, or is it x2y?
[22:06:57] *RoanKattouw 	looks it up
[22:07:09] <RoanKattouw>	From what I recall it's needle,haystack
[22:07:13] <RoanKattouw>	For this one anyway
[22:07:14] <ialex>	werdnum: or add new methods to the handler (isValidVersion, getVersionsForWiki, ...)
[22:07:20] <werdnum>	Do we have underscores, camelCase or no separation at all?
[22:07:28] <werdnum>	ialex: we have to look it up later anyway in all cases.
[22:07:36] <RoanKattouw>	Yup, needle,haystack
[22:07:37] <werdnum>	may as well cache it and save the DB roundtrip.
[22:07:40] <ialex>	werdnum: camelCase
[22:07:53] <werdnum>	ialex: I mean in PHP itself
[22:08:10] <werdnum>	Most languages have functions named like dosomething, do_something or doSomething.
[22:08:24] <werdnum>	PHP is discontented to choose just one, so it uses all three, inconsistently.
[22:08:32] <ialex>	core functions of PHP are with underscores
[22:08:48] <werdnum>	...
[22:08:54] <ialex>	in general
[22:08:58] <ialex>	at least
[22:09:34] <ialex>	call_user_func, in_array, file_get_contents, ...
[22:09:56] <ialex>	*really* bed time
[22:09:59] <ialex>	'night
[22:10:14] <werdnum>	what about readline, isset, setlocale, getallheaders, urlencode, phpversion, strpos, stripslashes?
[22:10:18] <werdnum>	damn.
[22:10:56] <werdnum>	!phpsucks is http://www.tnx.nl/php.html
[22:10:56] --mwbot--	Successfully added keyword: phpsucks
[22:13:34] <AaronSchulz>	brion: how many WMF wikis are there anyway?
[22:13:44] <werdnum>	731 or something
[22:13:54] <brion>	785 all.dblist
[22:14:02] <werdnum>	close enough :)
[22:14:44] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: I'm killing the comments about code complexity, unless you can think of a better way to convert a list of rows with key and value fields into an unserialised array.
[22:15:56] <werdnum>	I think when n = a few thousand, and O is a few microseconds, we can safely ignore linear complexity.
[22:16:18] <RoanKattouw>	werdnum: Did you write that document? You might wanna know that stuff like strcmp(lc($foo), lc($bar)) works just fine in PHP
[22:16:31] <RoanKattouw>	Or whatever the lc() function is
[22:16:32] <werdnum>	no, I didn't write it.
[22:16:37] <werdnum>	strtolower.
[22:16:43] <RoanKattouw>	Right
[22:19:13] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: Granted, the timestamp isn't *technically* unique, but I'm not sure you'll ever find two versions of the config saved *at the same time*
[22:19:20] <werdnum>	down to the second...
[22:19:32] <lch>	I think one of my installed extensions doesn't return true, causing the extension loading to stop, how can I check which one it is?
[22:19:39] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44132 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.handler-db.php: Update comments, assuming this is cached
[22:20:20] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: I did that mostly to make things easier for a back-compat method which lists the valid timestamps, and it was simple to just use array_keys()
[22:20:24] <werdnum>	so mostly out of laziness :D
[22:21:14] <Simetrical>	Any format conversion is intrinsically going to be O(N), obviously.
[22:21:25] <Simetrical>	Why would you need timestamps to be unique?
[22:21:36] <werdnum>	Because I'm putting them as the keys for an array.
[22:22:09] <Simetrical>	Why?
[22:22:41] <werdnum>	Because that way I can cheat and use array_keys() to get a list of timestamps, rather than walking the array.
[22:23:12] <Simetrical>	That sounds like the wrong solution.
[22:23:40] *werdnum 	mutters something about laziness.
[22:25:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582  (10smccandlish)
[22:26:46] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44133 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: (bug 16506) Give some way of hinting at why the form is gone
[22:26:57] <RoanKattouw>	werdnum: Don't you have unique config IDs or something like that?
[22:27:06] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED)  Review form gone for non-SysOps if edits got restricted to SysOps - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16506  summary; +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[22:27:18] <AaronSchulz>	RoanKattouw: cv_id
[22:27:24] <RoanKattouw>	So use that
[22:27:33] <werdnum>	yeah, but that would defeat my lazy solution of array_keys() to get a list of valid timestamps.
[22:27:36] <werdnum>	I don't *need* a key.
[22:27:45] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm
[22:27:48] <werdnum>	I was just being lazy.
[22:27:52] <RoanKattouw>	So make your array two-dimensional
[22:27:59] <werdnum>	It already is.
[22:28:00] <RoanKattouw>	$arr[$timestamp][] = $entry;
[22:28:07] <werdnum>	oh, right.
[22:28:07] <werdnum>	ew.
[22:28:13] <RoanKattouw>	Ugly, I know
[22:28:19] <werdnum>	nah, I've already written the five lines of code I saved :)
[22:28:20] <RoanKattouw>	But that's the price for this kind of laziness
[22:29:29] <werdnum>	RoanKattouw: laziness is supposed to produce less work, not more :)
[22:29:41] <RoanKattouw>	I know
[22:29:51] <RoanKattouw>	That's what I meant when I said "this kind" of laziness
[22:29:55] <werdnum>	hehe
[22:30:14] <werdnum>	efficiency is a highly-developed form of laziness.
[22:31:02] <lch>	I think there's a special hell for laziness in Dante's Inferno
[22:32:55] <werdnum>	ugh, wtf
[22:32:58] <werdnum>							extract( $GLOBALS, EXTR_REFS );
[22:33:05] *werdnum 	wtfs at ialex.
[22:33:11] <Simetrical>	extract() is bad, kids.
[22:33:36] <Simetrical>	Especially . . . wait, that puts all globals into local scope by reference?
[22:33:41] <Simetrical>	Or what?
[22:33:44] <Simetrical>	That would be evil.
[22:33:45] <werdnum>	yyyyyeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhh
[22:33:58] <Simetrical>	Unless you did it consistently, then it would just be more C-style scoping.  :)
[22:34:00] *werdnum 	sends ialex to programmer hell.
[22:35:13] <AaronSchulz>	werdnum: made a comment on that too
[22:35:26] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: I know, that's why I'm looking at it :)
[22:35:31] <AaronSchulz>	I used the antibot extension via "use this extension"
[22:35:45] <brion>	programmer hell is writing desktop apps in PHP-GTK
[22:35:59] <brion>	and thinking "gee if only i could have used VB"
[22:36:00] <AaronSchulz>	by using var_dump, the config var was not set before hand, but sp:version and such confirms the extension was on
[22:36:08] <werdnum>	brion: jesus shit that sounds ugly.
[22:36:24] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: yeah, I've barely looked at Special:Extensions.
[22:37:07] *VasilievVV 	thought programmer hell is writing PHP interpreter in assembler
[22:37:16] <werdnum>	no, that's at least interesting.
[22:37:36] <werdnum>	PHP was born as an ugly hack for some guy to write his website quickly
[22:37:39] <werdnum>	and that's how it's styaed.
[22:37:42] <werdnum>	stayed*
[22:40:21] <lch>	so, something is making my extensions fail to load
[22:40:32] <svip>	:s Why doesn't MediaWiki have a tree of inclusion?
[22:40:32] <lch>	I suspect it's one of the extensions
[22:40:40] <svip>	I cannot figure out which template is including another template.
[22:40:42] <lch>	how can I find out which one it is?
[22:40:42] <werdnum>	svip: >>
[22:40:45] <werdnum>	??*
[22:41:07] <Reedy>	If you look on the edit page, it should tell you.
[22:41:18] <svip>	Yes, but not subinclusions and thus on.
[22:41:22] <svip>	They are listed on the same level.
[22:41:39] <lch>	because you'll end up with half of Wikipedia's Template namespace
[22:41:54] <svip>	I am talking MediaWiki, not Wikipedia.
[22:43:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582  (10alexfusco5)
[22:43:33] <svip>	Woo!  I found the template.  Anyway, a tree would be nice.
[22:44:43] <lch>	svip, "What links here"?
[22:45:52] <svip>	Yeah, lch, but even that isn't treed, unless it is actually redirects.
[22:46:27] <lch>	I know, but it would have solved your problem
[22:48:01] <svip>	I tried it, lch.
[22:48:24] <svip>	Which wasn't much help either, cause it just lists them alphabetic, not whom included whom.
[22:55:16] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44134 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/specialpages/RatingHistory_body.php: Remove duplication
[23:00:02] <Grant__>	quick question: how do i add or remove a banner to every page on a mediawiki site similar to the one that wikipedia has right now for donations?
[23:01:40] <werdnum>	Grant__: MediaWiki:SiteNotice
[23:01:51] <siebrand>	!sitenotice | Grant__
[23:01:51] --mwbot--	Grant__: Sitenotice is a wiki-wide message that appears at the top of the page for all users. It is editable by users in the sysop usergroup at [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]]. See also: !anonnotice
[23:06:06] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44135 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/specialpages/RatingHistory_body.php: Missed a few $dbrs
[23:08:18] <j4zzcat>	hello all
[23:08:46] <j4zzcat>	can a global function serve as a callback handler for a parser hook?
[23:09:43] <Duesentrieb>	j4zzcat: yes, that's the usual case
[23:09:54] <Duesentrieb>	well, any php callable can be used
[23:10:00] <j4zzcat>	how would I reference it?
[23:10:09] <j4zzcat>	is there a '$this' for a global function?
[23:10:11] <Duesentrieb>	by its name as a string
[23:10:22] <Duesentrieb>	php doesn't have first order functions.
[23:10:30] <lch>	I found the goddamn problem... how I hate this Debian crap
[23:10:34] <Duesentrieb>	instead, it has built in string based reflection
[23:10:47] <Grant__>	mwbot: thanks! that was exactly what i was looking for
[23:11:04] <Grant__>	i figured out how to put one on my wiki about a year ago, and then forgot how to remove it
[23:11:13] <Grant__>	good thing it's just a personal wiki ;)
[23:11:33] <lch>	Duesentrieb, know any good SQL extensions that I could use to query tabular data for articles?
[23:12:04] <Duesentrieb>	lch: nope. i know some exist, but i jhave never tried any
[23:12:22] <lch>	you're referenced as source of inspiration in one :)
[23:18:30] <Kelvin_0>	all wiki projects out there use the same text format characters and codes?
[23:20:08] <werdnum>	brion: I got most of that TODO list done, just a few lingering things like JS search (eeeeek) and stuff.
[23:20:22] <werdnum>	almost "Poke holes in Andrew and Alex's code" time.
[23:20:33] <TheBeast>	man I'm so confused with mediawiki
[23:22:08] <werdnum>	TheBeast: what's up?
[23:24:04] <TheBeast>	werdnum: imagine one linux box, with a static IP. then a named configuration that points l1wiki.domain.tld and l2wiki.domain.tld to xxx.yyy.zzz.ttt. The two mediawiki installations have nothing in common. they're setup for two different departments in our company.
[23:24:34] <TheBeast>	Now, I'm thinking about this. Since the dns stuff is done, I can configure two virtual hosts in my apache and do it from there
[23:24:56] <TheBeast>	I can create two separate databases for l1wiki and l2wiki and so on
[23:25:00] <TheBeast>	does this sound allright?!
[23:25:09] <werdnum>	You could do that, or you could be even lazier.
[23:25:34] <werdnum>	!wikifarm | TheBeast 
[23:25:34] --mwbot--	TheBeast: To run multiple wikis, you can simply install MediaWiki in different folders, with different databases or in one with database prefixes. You can also have multiple wikis using a single installation: <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_family> and <http://booleandreams.wordpress.com/2007/06/12/running-multiple-instance-of-mediawiki-on-the-same-server-using-the-same-source-code/>.
[23:27:19] <TheBeast>	I'll check it out
[23:41:37] <garnol>	how can i upload images to my mediawiki?
[23:42:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special: AddData should catch PHP error when template specified in form is invalid ( not a title) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14314  (10dingl)
[23:42:37] <RingtailedFox>	guys, i just want to let you know that i've managed to fix the issue regarding my templates!
[23:42:48] <RingtailedFox>	i no longer have random data being shown
[23:43:01] <RingtailedFox>	my next project is to get java, batik, and mediawiki to play nice together
[23:43:23] <garnol>	nice, did you already get a WYSIWYG ?
[23:43:45] <RingtailedFox>	yes. no more <td> </tr> tags showing up
[23:43:55] <RingtailedFox>	i simply had to add Template:Country data from wikipedia to my wiki
[23:44:19] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Special: AddData should catch PHP error when template specified in form is invalid ( not a title) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14314  +comment (10dingl)
[23:44:21] <RingtailedFox>	i just need to get SVG images to work, and i'll be in business
[23:44:54] <Duesentrieb>	!upload | garnol
[23:44:54] --mwbot--	garnol: File uploads are disabled per default, set $wgEnableUploads=true to enable it. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads> for configuration details, <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Managing_files> and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images> for using uploaded images and other files.
[23:44:54] <garnol>	for what do you need SVG images? in which case are they better?
[23:45:13] <RingtailedFox>	they are much better because they are smaller and they retain data perfectly
[23:45:18] <Duesentrieb>	garnol: they are better for drawings, charts, maps, icons, etc
[23:45:21] <RingtailedFox>	they are Scalable Vector Graphics
[23:45:23] <RingtailedFox>	flags, as well
[23:45:26] <Duesentrieb>	yep
[23:46:04] <RingtailedFox>	they can export to PNG image format for browsers that don't support SVG as well (if you have the appropriate program installed on the server end)
[23:46:22] <RingtailedFox>	that's my issue right now. i have the prorgams, but i dont' have them talking to each other. mediawiki found batik, but batik can't find java
[23:46:47] <garnol>	ah ok, jpg, png are pixel based and svgs are vector based
[23:46:50] <Duesentrieb>	RingtailedFox: that doesn't sound right... batik doesn't even run without java, so it can't try to find it :)
[23:46:51] <RingtailedFox>	yes
[23:46:55] <RingtailedFox>	ok
[23:47:01] <RingtailedFox>	let me get an example of what i am trying to say
[23:47:36] <RingtailedFox>	http://wiki.mobianlegends.com/wiki/Template:Flag
[23:48:24] <Duesentrieb>	yea, java is not in the system path
[23:48:28] <Duesentrieb>	or not there at all.
[23:49:12] <RingtailedFox>	hmm
[23:49:21] <RingtailedFox>	i have it installed in ~/bin/ becuase i dont' have root access
[23:49:30] <RingtailedFox>	let me just check my path for java
[23:50:01] <RingtailedFox>	ok. which environment variables need to be edited for my user account to find java?
[23:50:10] <brion>	werdnum: spiffy, lemme fire it up
[23:50:30] <garnol>	i am using media wiki as a personal 1person encyclopedia. How can I copie some article directions of a firends encyclopedia ??
[23:50:48] <RingtailedFox>	garnol: the appropriate term isn't pixel-based, as all things are pixel-based. you are thinking of raster-based.
[23:52:17] <RingtailedFox>	p858snake: got some good news... managed to fix my template problem :)
[23:52:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582  (10mrzmanwiki)
[23:52:50] <p858snake>	i just saw that mailing list post, i can't remember if it was yours or the other person
[23:53:33] <RingtailedFox>	just posted now
[23:53:39] <RingtailedFox>	anyway, i am very glad.
[23:53:53] <RingtailedFox>	now i just need to set up java so batik can run
[23:54:25] *werdnum 	makes himself a thickshake.
[23:54:27] <werdnum>	nom nom nom
[23:54:41] <RingtailedFox>	p858snake: do you know how to configure java?
[23:55:16] <p858snake>	lol i pointed out in the mailing list after the example the person looked had missing templates so i pointed them to the sandbox page which uses no templates and he still says "Add the missing templates and that will likely clear up." >.<
[23:55:25] *RingtailedFox 	nods
[23:56:02] <RingtailedFox>	the sandbox is still screwy, but the templates work, and that's all that counts
[23:56:03] <werdnum>	Pathoschild: what did you do to pathoschild?
[23:56:12] <werdnum>	you're the evil twin, aren't you?
[23:56:29] <p858snake>	and how is mixed wiki/html tables not supported, they recommend it for things such as phaser extenstions
[23:56:33] *Pathoschild 	split temporarily to get more work done.
[23:56:40] <RingtailedFox>	lol
[23:56:48] <werdnum>	phaser extensions?
[23:56:50] <RingtailedFox>	"we don't support a required thing" :P
[23:56:54] <werdnum>	That sounds vaguely star-trek-esque.
[23:56:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) CentralAuth global session not including wikipecies, incubator - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14407  (10brion)
[23:57:36] <werdnum>	brion: I did a few extra things, like "reasons" and stuff.
[23:58:13] <werdnum>	brion: btw, give yourself the 'configure-all' right. That's why those settings were disappearing (see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Werdna/Configure_todo).