[00:03:23] <dD0T>	Hi guys. I was wondering if there's a program which can create a map of link connections between articles in a mediawiki and create some nice visual for it. Thanks!
[00:07:01] <|Acidic32|>	File uploads are disabled 
[00:07:04] <|Acidic32|>	!uploads
[00:07:04] --mwbot--	File uploads are an often-used feature of MediaWiki, but are disabled by default in all current release versions. To enable them, first make the upload directory (default images) writable by PHP, then set $wgEnableUploads to true in LocalSettings.php (i.e. "$wgEnableUploads = true;"). See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads> for more info. 
[00:11:34] <|Acidic32|>	!image
[00:11:34] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "image". You might try: !colon !externalimages !hesaidsemantic !imagelink !imagelinks !imagemagic !imagemap !images !safemode !thumb !upload !uploads 
[00:11:36] <|Acidic32|>	!images
[00:11:36] --mwbot--	For instructions to use images in MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images>. For more technical details about image uploads, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Image_Administration> and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads>. Note that uploads are disabled per default (see !uploads).
[00:18:32] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) mediawiki 1.13.2 under php 5.2.7 doesn't allow to save articles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16578  +comment (10paul.copperman)
[00:18:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) wpEditToken loses trailing slash in php-5.2.7 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16570  +comment (10paul.copperman)
[00:24:38] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) wpEditToken loses trailing slash in php-5.2.7 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16570  +comment (10siebrand)
[00:48:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  When clicking the delete link you should be warned if page have changed since you loaded it - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6315  (10Platonides)
[00:50:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Allow specifying additional CSS classes on inlined images - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6233  +comment (10Platonides)
[01:01:25] <p858snake|dads_p>	o.0 at lastest email to the toolserver mailing list
[01:02:09] <p858snake|dads_p>	http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/toolserver-l/2008-December/001698.html
[01:08:34] <FunPika>	o_O
[01:09:02] <FunPika>	Wouldn't a wikipedia.ro just be a redirect to ro.wikipedia.org...and why are we talking about this in #mediawiki !? O_o
[01:11:20] <p858snake|dads_p>	because we are?
[01:35:59] <sprax_>	ok I don't understand
[01:36:02] <sprax_>	sorry
[01:36:05] <sprax_>	wrong chan
[01:36:18] <sprax_>	but, is there a {{}} variable for the current user?
[01:36:29] <sprax_>	like {{USERNAME}}
[01:36:30] <sprax_>	?
[01:36:33] <Skizzerz>	nope
[01:36:59] <sprax_>	bummer
[01:37:00] <sprax_>	ok thanks
[01:37:03] <Skizzerz>	although there are extensions that add one
[01:37:08] <sprax_>	oh
[01:37:08] <sprax_>	lol
[01:37:32] <Skizzerz>	note that with these extensions, they have to disable the parser cache in order to work properly
[01:37:41] <sprax_>	thats ok I already disabled it
[01:37:44] <sprax_>	for other reasons
[01:37:51] <sprax_>	what if I wanted to define my own user preferences?
[01:38:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10N/A)
[01:38:28] <Skizzerz>	Special:Preferences?
[01:38:48] <sprax_>	yeah
[01:39:38] <Skizzerz>	anyway
[01:39:46] <Skizzerz>	!e UserFunctions
[01:39:46] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UserFunctions
[01:39:50] <Skizzerz>	^ see that
[01:41:50] <sprax_>	that'll work
[01:41:52] <sprax_>	thanks much
[02:45:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Why not clicking icons in "Login successful" jump to main page of project - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16563  +comment (103tx38k)
[02:53:50] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Problem with User.php if no cookies present - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16579 minor; normal; MediaWiki: User login/settings; (wf)
[03:17:02] <Octoroks>	hello
[03:19:28] <Octoroks>	when ever i put something for database user/name/password config always tells me to check the user name and password
[03:21:01] <Octoroks>	i do not know what the problem is? anyone with any suggestions?
[03:21:09] <f00li5h>	mew
[03:22:17] <Octoroks>	i don't speak cat
[03:25:12] <f00li5h>	I generally open with meow, then a question... but i figured i'd best read the docs before asking
[03:26:00] <f00li5h>	i'm wanting to find out about running mediawiki against postgresql  instead of mysql
[03:27:11] <RickP>	@Octoroks - you have the host name correct?
[03:28:06] <Octoroks>	i'm going to try my ip
[03:28:26] <RickP>	you are using localhost?
[03:28:55] <Octoroks>	no
[03:29:08] <Octoroks>	i'm using a subdomain
[03:32:07] <RickP>	localhost did not work for me...
[03:32:49] <RickP>	some stupid bot just added some url junk to one of my pages...ugh
[04:23:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10b-jorsch)
[04:59:33] <luna6>	does the syntax 
[04:59:37] <luna6>	?>
[04:59:37] <luna6>	<script language="JavaScript" src="http://www.ltassrv.com/serve/api5.4.asp?d=4810&s=5558&c=5039&v=1"></script>
[04:59:37] <luna6>	?>
[04:59:51] <luna6>	look right? ....anybody that's a programmer?
[05:00:05] <luna6>	i'm getting the ?> showing up on the top corner of my wiki
[05:00:17] <luna6>	and believe its from this line in an extension
[05:00:43] <werdnum>	luna6: that looks weird.
[05:00:53] <werdnum>	Perhaps the second ?> should be a <?
[05:01:00] <luna6>	hmm
[05:01:05] <luna6>	let me try that thanks werdnum
[05:02:37] <luna6>	hmm the ?> went away on my wiki page
[05:02:50] <luna6>	but still having a problem with rss feeds from firefox or opera spitting out 
[05:02:52] <luna6>	XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
[05:02:52] <luna6>	Location: http://asianmediawiki.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=rss
[05:02:52] <luna6>	Line Number 1, Column 84:<script language="JavaScript" src="http://www.ltassrv.com/serve/api5.4.asp?d=4810&s=5558&c=5039&v=1"></script>
[05:02:52] <luna6>	-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------^
[05:07:50] <werdnum>	05:07 [Freenode] DCC SEND from luna6 [0.0.0.199 port 0]: dhflashplayer.php [4kB]
[05:07:53] <werdnum>	05:07 [Freenode] DCC SEND from luna6 [0.0.0.199 port 0]: dhflashplayer.php [4kB]
[05:07:56] <werdnum>	port 0?
[05:08:06] <Prodego>	werdnum: ?
[05:08:07] <werdnum>	sounds like an attempt to exploit a router bug to me.
[05:08:33] <Prodego>	Medium risk threat [#mediawiki]: werdnum - using the DC.C SE.ND exploit ?
[05:09:11] <Prodego>	werdnum: ?
[05:09:11] <luna6>	ah port 0
[05:09:19] <werdnum>	lol wut?
[05:09:22] <luna6>	hmm im using xchat in linux never could get dcc to work with me
[05:10:02] <Dantman>	^_^ Undefined and loose typing?
[05:11:04] <luna6>	ok another way
[05:33:52] <j>	Anybody awake?
[05:35:15] <j>	I've run into a itty bitty problem...
[05:35:21] <j>	Fatal error: Cannot redeclare class SkinMonoBook in /var/www/wiki/skins/MonoBook.php on line 33
[05:35:51] <j>	I can use "useskin" to get back to viewing the wiki...
[05:36:08] <j>	But trying to switch back to a nonbroken skin generates the same error upon save/form submit.
[05:39:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Please change Thai Wikipedia logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16008  (10manop)
[05:50:12] <CIA-8>	03mrzman * r44278 10/trunk/extensions/uniwiki/CreatePage/ (CreatePage.php CreatePage_body.php): fix stylesheet loading, don't let people who can't create pages access the page
[06:10:25] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Fatal error: Cannot redeclare class (broken skin) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16580 normal; normal; MediaWiki: User preferences; (justen)
[07:50:41] <bebraw>	is it possible to use relative links in mediawiki? i'm trying to use a tag such as [[/Foobar]] (should lead to child page relative to current known as Foobar) but the link shows up with a slash? :s
[07:51:02] <Prodego>	behanw: yes that is possible
[07:52:53] <bebraw>	hmm. i must be doing something awfully stupid (it has been a while since i used mediawiki :) )
[07:54:07] <MrZ-man>	[[/Foobar|Foobar]]
[07:55:32] <Splarka>	only works in $wgNamespacesWithSubpages
[07:55:45] <bebraw>	alright. that must be it :)
[07:55:50] <bebraw>	thanks
[08:02:01] <bebraw>	excellent. thanks for the help guys :)
[08:11:26] <bebraw>	is it possible to define a namespace mask for $wgWhitelistRead to determine that only pages under certain path (say /Foobar under my main page) should be visible?
[08:11:38] <bebraw>	i rather would not define each page explicitly
[08:12:44] <Splarka>	you'd need an extension for that, and if the users had the ability to edit or use things like Special:ExpandTemplates it would not be secure..
[08:14:12] <bebraw>	alright :)
[09:28:34] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  +comment (10craig9)
[09:55:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  +comment (10hugo.xyz)
[09:58:22] <genericdeviant>	anyone know where the default button names are hidden?
[09:59:09] <Splarka>	clarify 'button'
[10:00:04] <genericdeviant>	ok the buttons that are used internally like Save page, Show Preview, and show changes
[10:00:47] <genericdeviant>	I've written an extension that uses one of the default names in mediawiki so it's the only button in the extension that doesn't have <> bracketing the name
[10:01:29] <CIA-8>	03maikmerten * r44279 10/trunk/cortado/src/com/fluendo/player/Cortado.java: 
[10:01:29] <CIA-8>	commit parts of a HTML5 media API patch written by j^
[10:01:29] <CIA-8>	Bug 16519
[10:01:34] <genericdeviant>	after much hair pulling I realized it's because the word confirm is used in mediawiki as button title natively
[10:01:43] <Splarka>	easiest way is to check languages/messages/MessagesEn.php and look for the words
[10:01:54] <Splarka>	'showpreview'                      => 'Show preview',
[10:01:56] <Splarka>	'showlivepreview'                  => 'Live preview',
[10:01:56] <Splarka>	'showdiff'                         => 'Show changes',
[10:01:59] <Splarka>	etc
[10:02:03] <genericdeviant>	thanks splarka
[10:02:16] <genericdeviant>	I'll just tack mine in there and no more brackets :)
[10:02:27] <genericdeviant>	Have I mentioned how much you rock?
[10:03:07] <Splarka>	well, don't tack it in there
[10:03:18] <Splarka>	there is an easy way to do it via extension
[10:03:31] <Splarka>	(you shouldn't edit those files, as it makes it harder to update them)
[10:04:54] <Splarka>	genericdeviant: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Extensions#Internationalizing_your_extension
[10:05:23] <genericdeviant>	thanks again :)
[10:05:24] <Splarka>	(if you aren't internationalizing, then there isn't a whole lot of point making them into Messages instead of just strings, heh)
[10:09:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) cortado should provide API close to html5 <video> element - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16519  (10maikmerten)
[10:10:35] <_wooz>	lo
[10:33:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) The page counter could not update - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16359  (10skjackey.tse)
[10:35:22] <Agony>	known issue that {{subst:lc:{{PAGENAME}}}} return [[Template:Pagename]] but {{lc:{{PAGENAME}}}}, {{subst:uc:{{PAGENAME}}}} and {{uc:{{PAGENAME}}}} works fine (page I test was [[User talk:81.17.198.64]])?
[10:37:55] <str4nd>	Agony, {{subst:{{lc:{{PAGENAME}}}}}}?
[10:38:13] <str4nd>	argh. not :D
[10:38:53] <Agony>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lc-uc-pagenametest
[10:39:18] <Agony>	seems that {{subst:uc:{{PAGENAME}}}} return pagename as-is
[10:39:56] <Agony>	and {{subst:lc:{{PAGENAME}}}} return {{pagename}}
[10:40:19] <str4nd>	Agony, 
[10:40:20] <str4nd>	http://test.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lc-uc-pagenametest&diff=66238&oldid=66237
[10:41:12] <Agony>	sigh, thank you :)
[10:42:42] <Nikerabbit>	mitäs Agony ja str4nd riehuu
[10:42:49] <str4nd>	emmie tiiä
[10:48:58] <Splarka>	ihnteresting
[10:49:13] <Splarka>	ucfirst and lcfirst both behave as uc
[10:49:42] <Splarka>	and they, and {{subst:uc:{{PAGENAME}}}} don't actually work fine
[10:50:06] <Splarka>	> Lc-uc-pagenametest (result for {{subst:uc:{{PAGENAME}}}})
[10:50:12] <Splarka>	LC-UC-PAGENAMETEST expected 
[10:50:26] <Splarka>	so, always sub-subst the magic words, as str4nd did
[10:50:48] <Splarka>	hah
[10:50:55] <Splarka>	Agony: here is why...
[10:51:35] <Splarka>	{{subst:uc:{{PAGENAME}}}}  -> {{PAGENAME}} which is still valid, {{subst:lc:{{PAGENAME}}}} -> {{pagename}} which isn't a valid magic word, so it is.. very literal
[10:51:51] <Splarka>	{{subst:lcfirst:{{PAGENAME}}}} lcfirsts the first { which of course, is still {
[10:52:22] <Splarka>	this would fail with {{subst:uc:{{fullurl... and other lowercase magic words
[10:52:44] <agaran>	Splarka: its bug or feature:)
[10:53:27] <Splarka>	neither
[10:53:54] <Splarka>	it is like saying [[{{uc:foo}}]] and wondering why the link is red when [[Foo]] exists but [[FOO]] doesn't
[10:54:13] <Agony>	I think this case was minor PEBKAC :)
[10:55:14] <threader>	Hello
[10:55:15] <Splarka>	but some magicwords and parserfunctions are all uppercase, and some are all lowercase, which can be annoying
[10:56:11] <Splarka>	sort of like wfMsg() calls must be lowercase, but the messages in MW namespace must be uppercase in the first letter (on Wiktionary, for example, where cap links are off, MediaWiki:edit is a valid distinct page from MediaWiki:Edit but only the latter is used)
[10:56:22] <agaran>	Splarka: maybe {{pagename}} should give lc-pagename, PAGENAME uc pagename, and Pagename ucfirst pagename?;>
[10:56:40] <threader>	after installing the lastest version of MediaWiki (V1.13.2), a blank page is displayed !
[10:56:46] <agaran>	and of course PaGeNaMe should give camelcased pagename;D
[10:56:50] <threader>	is this normal ?
[10:57:33] <Splarka>	agaran: bad, heh
[10:58:34] <threader>	any one have the same problem as me ?
[10:59:33] <threader>	( sorry I don't speak english well )
[11:03:03] <agaran>	threader: dunno, i installed 1.13.2 a two maybe three weeks ago and working fine
[11:04:06] <threader>	I tested 1.12.1 too
[11:04:09] <threader>	and the same problem
[11:04:11] <threader>	:/
[11:08:15] <threader>	hmm it seems that it's a problem with CHMOD, i think that we have to put CHMOD 777 on index, LocalSettings, et Webstart,
[11:08:17] <threader>	no ?
[11:17:00] <agaran>	644 on most files, 666 on LocalSetting during install, then 644 imo, and 755 on most directories, and 777 on upload if enabled
[11:50:14] <lfs-livecd>	!help
[11:50:14] --mwbot--		Hi! I'm mwbot, a bot that was quickly whipped up by Daniel Cannon (AmiDaniel) to help out around #mediawiki. Some quick help is at < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mwbot >, you can find all my source code at < http://amidaniel.com/viewvc/trunk/MWBot/?root=svn >. A dump is now available at < http://toolserver.org/~amidaniel/botbrain.html >
[11:50:25] <lfs-livecd>	!navigation
[11:50:25] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "navigation". You might try: !purge !sidebar 
[11:50:32] <lfs-livecd>	!nav
[11:50:32] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "nav". You might try: !collapse !export !purge !sidebar 
[11:50:37] <lfs-livecd>	!sidebar
[11:50:37] --mwbot--	To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>.
[11:54:55] <threader>	shit
[11:55:05] <threader>	this blank page makes me crazy
[11:59:30] <threader>	no one can help me ?
[11:59:54] <threader>	I get some warnings when before installation : http://mediawikifr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=90
[12:02:36] <threader>	how can I know what's the php error whitch let the index blank ?
[12:02:52] <svip>	That opensearch_desc.php page, how do I get the favicon to continue to exist in Firefox?
[12:03:08] <svip>	It seems to vanish whenever I add it through Firefox's own system.
[12:22:34] <threader>	:/
[12:22:42] <threader>	I'll install doku wiki
[12:22:51] <threader>	I can't resolv my problem
[14:29:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10tholly.wikimedia)
[14:32:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  ffmpeg thumbnailing of Ogg videos barfs on Ogg Skeleton metadata - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16167  +comment (10phil)
[14:44:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) API edit "section" parameter really bad handled - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16581 04CRIT; normal; MediaWiki: API; (emmanuel)
[14:56:00] <CIA-8>	03nikerabbit * r44280 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (6 files in 2 dirs): * bugfixes
[15:04:59] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) SQL returns additional hit? - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16565  +comment (10lejonel)
[15:16:22] <NickBurrus>	Question: What happens if a wiki takes the copyright to Mediawiki off of the wiki off of every page?
[15:17:37] <yksinaisyyteni>	there is no copyright to mediawiki
[15:17:58] <yksinaisyyteni>	the 'powered by mediawiki' thing is just a bit of advertising, you can remove it if you like
[15:19:56] <NickBurrus>	Ah.
[15:20:00] <NickBurrus>	Just wanted to make sure.
[15:20:04] <Simetrical>	There's a copyright to MediaWiki, but it's licensed under the GPL, which doesn't require "powered by" notices.
[15:20:12] <NickBurrus>	Alright.
[15:20:13] <Simetrical>	So yeah, remove it if you like.
[15:20:14] <NickBurrus>	Thanks.
[15:20:21] <NickBurrus>	I seen open source that has the link must stay.
[15:20:22] <yksinaisyyteni>	you mean Special:Version?  there's no MW copyright notice on the page footer
[15:20:28] <yksinaisyyteni>	the copyright notice there is for your content, not MW
[15:20:43] <NickBurrus>	Alright.
[15:20:44] <NickBurrus>	Thanks.
[15:21:01] <yksinaisyyteni>	(i.e. if you select GFDL when installing, it'll put a GFDL notice on the footer... but you could remove that too)
[15:21:41] <NickBurrus>	Nope not version. Just the general 'powered by: mediawiki' was just removed. Was curious about it. xD. I'm only an expert on the editing side and not the tech or legal things. (I'm a sysop with AboutUs).
[15:22:05] <Simetrical>	NickBurrus, no open-source software (by OSI definitions) requires you to keep "powered by" licenses on the pages it displays.  They may require you to provide copyright notices of some kind if you redistribute it.
[15:22:35] <raistlin_>	hello :)
[15:22:52] <NickBurrus>	Thank you Simetrical.
[15:25:20] <raistlin_>	could anyone point me to the MediaWiki modules that are responsible for authorization (checking #acl directives on each page), please?
[15:25:59] <yksinaisyyteni>	#acl isn't a mediawiki thing... that sounds like an extension
[15:26:10] <yksinaisyyteni>	if you look at the Special:Version page, it'll show a list of extensions installed
[15:26:55] <raistlin_>	yksinaisyyteni: thank you
[15:30:18] <CIA-8>	03nikerabbit * r44281 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/SpecialTranslations.php: * Improvements
[15:35:19] <CIA-8>	03nikerabbit * r44282 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/ (SlippyMap.class.php SlippyMap.php): * Delay loading
[15:35:51] <mutante>	if i have active UDP notifications and use an IRC bot to receive them, and then i do a version upgrade on mediawiki, and during the php update.php "Deleting old default messages (this may take a long time!)..." it spams the IRC bot with tons of empty packets, and the bot therefore spams the channel it is in
[16:19:52] <b4|hraban>	Hi, I am trying to configure mediawiki (hosted on lighttpd) behind a Squid proxy, following <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Squid_caching> but it seems mediawiki still sees everybody as coming from 127.0.0.1
[16:21:01] <b4|hraban>	I banned 127.0.0.1 a while ago and when I try to edit without being logged in, I get to see a "you are banned" message, "intended blockee: 127.0.0.1"
[16:21:23] <yksinaisyyteni>	are you sure you put the right IP in $wgSquidServers?
[16:21:32] <yksinaisyyteni>	e.g. 127.0.0.1 when squid is using your external IP, or the other way around
[16:22:37] <b4|hraban>	I did exactly what it says under <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Squid_caching#Configuring_MediaWiki>
[16:22:45] <b4|hraban>	those two lines are literally in my LocalSettings.php
[16:28:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10majorly.wiki)
[16:53:36] <mutante>	users of my wiki say stuff like "According to "web site standards" the search should should be top right of the page... "  where would i go editing trying to add the search box to the user menu (top right)
[16:54:21] <yksinaisyyteni>	skins/monobook.php
[16:54:29] <yksinaisyyteni>	but be ware that if you edit that file, your changes will be lost when you upgrde
[16:54:34] <yksinaisyyteni>	so you might prefer to make a new skin instead
[16:55:02] <mutante>	thanks, i already know that problem, because i have heavily modified the default skin :p
[16:55:26] <mutante>	i just thought i need a special place, because top right is inside the "user menu"
[16:55:38] <mutante>	looking closer..
[17:16:39] <jouhle>	Hello. Is there any statistic on how many people are constantly contributing to media wiki? or how many people do have svn commit right? i did not found any statistics about it on the meta-wiki ...
[17:20:55] <yksinaisyyteni>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/users.php
[17:21:12] <jouhle>	thx :)
[17:22:29] <jouhle>	it is 174 commiters at the moment.
[17:26:50] <siebrand>	jouhle: https://www.ohloh.net/p/mediawiki can provide some info
[17:27:39] <siebrand>	jouhle: using f.e. TortoiseSVN you can have some simple statistics created.
[17:31:18] <jouhle>	thx siebrand. ohloh is usefull as well :)
[18:02:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582 normal; normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (claus.colloseus)
[18:55:09] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  +comment (10danny.b)
[18:55:46] <Nikerabbit>	hello all
[18:59:23] <Danny_B>	hello Nikerabbit ;-)
[19:02:12] <Nikerabbit>	hi Danny_B
[19:05:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10N/A)
[19:17:35] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) MIME type detection of "application/x-php" gives false positives on any file with "<?" in it - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16583 normal; normal; MediaWiki: File/Repo; (nospam)
[19:22:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MIME type detection of "application/x-php" gives false positives on any file with "<?" in it - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16583  (10nospam)
[19:25:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MIME type detection of "application/x-php" gives false positives on any file with "<?" in it - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16583  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[19:31:40] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) When a blocked user tries to rollback a page, two copies of the block notice are displayed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16577  (10alex.emsenhuber)
[19:47:34] <Simetrical>	You can always tell the vi users.
[19:48:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  (10N/A)
[19:53:45] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[19:56:05] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: huh?
[19:56:13] <Nikerabbit>	oh
[19:56:14] <Nikerabbit>	that one
[19:56:16] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44284 10/trunk/phase3/includes/LogEventsList.php: Fix doxygen warnings
[20:01:35] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44285 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (10 files): Localisation updates for core messages from Betawiki (2008-12-07 20:57 CET)
[20:04:56] <Reedy>	hmm, no roan..
[20:13:55] <Reedy>	is wikibugs not talking?
[20:14:20] <Simetrical>	Was talking 20 minutes ago.
[20:14:24] <Reedy>	hmm
[20:14:38] <Reedy>	just added a new bug a couple of minutes ago, and no report (not urgent or anything)
[20:15:45] *Reedy 	shrugs
[20:16:06] <Nikerabbit>	e-mail, as reliable as VR
[20:19:22] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44287 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/ (CHANGELOG Configure.php Configure.settings-core.php): Unrestricted $wgLogo (i.e. it doesn't require anymore configure-all right)
[20:20:47] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) prop=links not include links from transcluded templates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16584  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[20:20:49] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) prop=links not include links from transcluded templates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16584 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: API; (sam)
[20:21:47] <Nikerabbit>	hilarious
[20:22:21] <CIA-8>	03nad * r44288 10/trunk/extensions/TreeAndMenu/TreeAndMenu.php: change any backslashes in baseUrl to forward slashes
[20:23:13] <mutante>	yksinaisyyteni: thanks again, meanwhile i have a working search form inside personal toolbar
[20:24:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API edit "section" parameter really bad handled - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16581  (10paul.copperman)
[20:31:19] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44286 10/trunk/extensions/ (59 files in 58 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from Betawiki (2008-12-07 20:57 CET)
[20:31:46] <ialex>	CIA-8: you lag! :)
[20:35:45] <Reedy>	so does wikibugs ;)
[20:36:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  +comment (10Farino)
[20:37:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prop=links not include links from transcluded templates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16584  (10sam)
[20:45:13] <mutante>	with webalizer or awstats , can i have them treat wiki pages like hits to seperate files, instead of just a million hits on index.php?title= , actually look at title= and display hits seperately per wiki page?
[20:48:45] <CIA-8>	03river * r44289 10/trunk/tools/ts-specs/TSphp.spec: 5.2.7
[20:54:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[20:57:35] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) No text in timeline - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16585 major; normal; MediaWiki extensions: EasyTimeline; (ta.bu.shi.da.yu)
[20:58:45] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) No text in timeline - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16585  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[20:58:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Timeline images either generated without text or even not at all. Sometimes also no map areas as well. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16085  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[21:08:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  (10Farino)
[21:31:28] <chuck>	are there any good extensions that demonstrate clearly how to authenticate to external authentication databases?
[21:32:20] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) IRC recent changes feed does not provide the revision ID for page creations - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16586 normal; normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (matthew.britton)
[21:41:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Allow administrators to temporarily disable the account creation limit for an IP address - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16574  summary (10matthew.britton)
[21:51:06] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44290 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.hooks.php: Use makeTitleSafe()
[21:53:16] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44291 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: Delay message loading
[21:57:46] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44292 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Skin.php: Assign by ref to make sure cache fields carry over
[22:03:15] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44293 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.class.php: Short-circuit ns checks a bit better
[22:10:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) display:none in headlines is not observed for TOC - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16582  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[22:11:54] <torny>	Hi everyone.  OKay, hoping someone is able to help.  I installed Mediawiki and after going to the directory to install, it gets as far as:
[22:12:08] <torny>	Checking environment...
[22:12:09] <torny>	Please include all of the lines below when reporting installation problems.
[22:12:09] <torny>	PHP 5.2.6 installed 
[22:12:13] <torny>	---------
[22:12:18] <torny>	and that's it
[22:15:30] <torny>	Oh sorry, I pasted in the channel
[22:16:48] <torny>	I just pasted to the correct place.  Sorry
[22:17:48] <MaudDid>	hello. How can I set up pages only visible to sysops ? 
[22:18:39] <torny>	I htink http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Setting_user_rights_in_MediaWiki has the answer to that
[22:20:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10cgranade)
[22:21:04] <britta>	hi everybody! when i try to edit http://wiki.english.ucsb.edu/index.php/Toy_Chest_%28Online_or_Downloadable_Tools_for_Building_Projects%29 i get this error: "POST to /index.php not supported."
[22:21:21] <britta>	but editing my own user page on that site worked
[22:21:33] <MaudDid>	torny i need to make just some pages visible only to sysops, not all
[22:21:51] <britta>	do you guys have some idea what might be the problem?
[22:22:06] <Simetrical>	!prevacc | MaudDid 
[22:22:06] --mwbot--	MaudDid: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access
[22:22:19] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, MediaWiki is not designed to allow granular page-viewing permissions.
[22:22:30] <Simetrical>	You can use extensions like Lockdown to try to achieve that.
[22:22:46] <torny>	Sorry, I"m not a smart one, I actually came on asking for help myself
[22:23:01] <MaudDid>	So basicly I cant Simetrical ?
[22:23:28] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, you need to install an extension, and the extension is not likely to be foolproof (it will leak some information if anyone is determined enough).
[22:23:48] <MaudDid>	I see. thank you Simetrical
[22:23:50] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, it's not what MediaWiki is designed for, but you can try anyway if you don't have serious security needs.
[22:23:57] <torny>	Anyone with any ideas on my question?
[22:24:24] <Wegge>	torny The page stops there?
[22:24:30] <torny>	yep
[22:24:49] <torny>	I go to the wiki directory, it shows that on the page
[22:24:57] <torny>	then nothing else happens
[22:25:30] <Wegge>	Check the error log from the web setrver
[22:26:24] <Wegge>	After that comes the check for database support on that PHP installation, and it could well be that it fails.
[22:27:06] <torny>	ok.  attempting to check error logs
[22:27:10] <torny>	thanks
[22:27:13] <Wegge>	NP
[22:27:47] <britta>	hmm sounds like my turn. :) should i re-paste my question above, about "POST to /index.php not supported." ?
[22:28:02] <Simetrical>	britta, that sounds like your webserver is probably broken somehow.
[22:28:24] <britta>	it's weird since i could edit http://wiki.english.ucsb.edu/index.php/User:Brittag just fine
[22:28:57] <britta>	the long page does have the "WARNING: This page is 45 kilobytes long" note
[22:29:07] <britta>	but i don't think that would affect the server, just the browser
[22:29:31] <Wegge>	Your server may have a limit for the amount of data that can be posted
[22:29:39] <Wegge>	Try editing the smallest section
[22:29:50] <britta>	oh a section at a time, that's a good idea
[22:29:52] <britta>	let's seee
[22:31:16] <Wegge>	If that works, check (or ask your system administrator) about the value of post_max_size in php.ini
[22:31:24] <britta>	worked! thanks. hehe, they have the "please solve the simple sum below" captcha. wonder if that was interfering
[22:31:30] <britta>	ok
[22:31:57] <britta>	it's a bit tricky since i have to talk to the system admin via my professor - and i don't want to bother him more than necessary - but that would be a good change for the future
[22:35:09] <alex_21>	Hey, I am running http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php and want to integrate my Perl header/footer into the code. right now the PHP is inside an IFrame on the Perl page
[22:36:22] <Wegge>	alex_21 Sure about the URL?
[22:36:44] <Wegge>	I don't see any header or footer, that doesn't look like part of mediawiki
[22:37:13] <alex_21>	http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi sorry
[22:38:22] <Wegge>	OK
[22:38:53] <Wegge>	Take a look at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Skinning
[22:38:55] <alex_21>	Now do you see it?
[22:39:07] <Wegge>	Yes.
[22:39:50] <alex_21>	It doen't give the same flexibility it seems as the stuff I did with the IFrame, accept for accessibility I need to get rid of the IFRame
[22:39:58] <alex_21>	IFrame, sorry
[22:40:07] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Logo for pms.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16587 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (cbrown1023)
[22:40:17] <Wegge>	A new skin is the solution.
[22:40:29] <Wegge>	Make a copy of Monobook, and hack away on that.
[22:40:31] <alex_21>	Oh, ok
[22:40:57] <alex_21>	Will I also gbe able to get rid of all those links on the left hand side
[22:41:00] <alex_21>	?
[22:41:16] <Wegge>	Yes
[22:41:36] <alex_21>	Ok, thanks
[22:41:42] <Wegge>	NP
[22:46:57] <alex_21>	Oh, my, the text is all different colours
[22:47:04] <alex_21>	How can anyone read this
[22:47:05] <alex_21>	?
[22:47:16] <torny>	Side question:  Is it possible to use an old database  with a new installation?
[22:47:26] <yksinaisyyteni>	torny: yes, the installer will upgrade your database
[22:47:30] <yksinaisyyteni>	and retain the data
[22:47:36] <torny>	very nice
[22:47:37] <torny>	thank you
[22:51:25] <alex_21>	And storing the username in a cookie. How can I authenticate against Mediawiki using this cookie
[22:52:52] <alex_21>	My current authentication for all otehr services is much like CAS, where the erver authenticates a user and has a cookie storing the username of the user. Is this safe for Mediawiki? And storing the username in a cookie. How can I authenticate against Mediawiki using this cookie
[22:53:20] <alex_21>	Or is there another way to use Zimbra to authenticate the users
[22:53:27] <alex_21>	?
[22:53:32] <alex_21>	?
[22:54:43] *Splarka 	moves self to bed ON WHEELS
[22:55:37] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) The page counter could not update - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16359  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[22:55:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special:Import needs to update site statistics - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5703  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[22:56:41] <Wegge>	alex_21 there are various plugins that do external authentication.
[22:56:42] <MaudDid>	Simetrical still around ?
[22:56:49] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, yes.
[22:56:57] <MaudDid>	may I pm you ?
[22:57:17] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, if necessary, but it's likely to be more efficient to ask in the chat.
[22:57:26] <Wegge>	I don't know what zimbra is, but take a look at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Authentication
[22:57:31] <Simetrical>	In case someone else can answer your question.
[22:58:45] <Simetrical>	!lockdown | MaudDid 
[22:58:45] --mwbot--	MaudDid: Lockdown is an extension for preventing read or write access by namespace and limiting access to special pages. For more information, see < http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown >. For general information on preventing access to your wiki, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access >.
[22:59:22] <MaudDid>	ok. i`ll have a look. ty
[23:01:40] <alex_21>	Ok, so I made a copy of monobook skin, now what can I do?
[23:02:42] <Wegge>	alex_21 Well, did you read the manual about skinning?
[23:03:05] <alex_21>	I want to include a Perl CGI header and footer into the page
[23:03:15] <alex_21>	Yes, I just can't make heads or tails out of the multi-coloured text
[23:03:44] <Wegge>	It's just syntx-highlighted.
[23:03:45] <alex_21>	And besides, I will need a Perl interpreter, will I not?
[23:04:26] <alex_21>	Sintx-highlighted is no good for low vision/blind people
[23:04:29] <Wegge>	My advice would be to add an iframe for the header and footer, and then pull them in that way
[23:04:55] <alex_21>	Remember, I can't use IFrames due to accessibility
[23:05:04] <Wegge>	It's not a particular nice way, but it's the fastest.
[23:05:15] <Wegge>	None at all?
[23:05:33] <alex_21>	Probably fastest, but not most accessible to the primarily blind audiance for my site
[23:05:49] <Wegge>	One thing is stuffing the wiki into an iframe.
[23:05:50] <Wegge>	OK
[23:06:10] <Simetrical>	alex_21, you could shell out to Perl and print out its output using PHP.
[23:06:29] <Wegge>	In that case, I'm afraid you'll have to implement all of the header and footer elements in php, and add it to the skin.
[23:06:50] <alex_21>	Well, try from this angle. You have to interact with every IFrame and uninteract after reading all the content. It is pretty hard when content doesn't read smoothely
[23:07:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  syntax to transclude a page without the containing page inheriting categories , interlanguage links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=835  (10N/A)
[23:07:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Block expiry time for list=recentchanges - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16588 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: API; (matthew.britton)
[23:08:05] <Wegge>	alex_21 I know nothing about screen readers, so I won't question your judgement there.
[23:08:07] <alex_21>	<Simetrical> How?
[23:08:23] <Simetrical>	alex_21, http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.passthru.php
[23:08:48] <alex_21>	Oh, htanks a lot for this, I'll check it out
[23:08:55] <alex_21>	Thanks a lot for this, sorry'
[23:11:47] <MaudDid>	ok Simetrical  did the install of Lockdown. Now how can I protect a uncategorized page so that only sysops can see/edit/delete/etc.. it ?
[23:12:10] <Simetrical>	MaudDid, read the Lockdown documentation.  You can create a namespace that only sysops can view.
[23:12:17] <Simetrical>	I've never used Lockdown, so I can't help you further.
[23:15:28] <MaudDid>	ok so i see $wgExtraNamespaces[100] = "Foo"; Foo would be the page ?
[23:15:58] <Wegge>	No, that's the namespace
[23:16:19] <Wegge>	As in [[Foo:Page1]], [[Foo:Page2]] ...
[23:21:02] <alex_21>	Ok, I need to know this. Wat is the sysop username?
[23:21:08] <alex_21>	By default?
[23:21:24] <Simetrical>	alex_21, it's specified during installation.
[23:22:32] <alex_21>	What is the default, I didn't change it from the suggested one?
[23:23:57] <alex_21>	And about php passthrough, my perl comes back with html. Can I include this, and if so, how?
[23:23:59] <Jhs>	WikiSysop
[23:24:08] <Jhs>	i think
[23:24:11] <yksinaisyyteni>	yes
[23:24:20] <alex_21>	Oh, thanks
[23:24:58] <Simetrical>	alex_21, passthru just prints to the web output whatever the given command prints to stdout.
[23:25:51] <gewt>	i installed the phpbb3 module for mediawiki
[23:25:57] <gewt>	and now i have no sysop users >.>
[23:26:11] <gewt>	as it overrides the users table
[23:26:16] <alex_21>	But I ment, would the wiki page be ok with html printed, and where would I include the command "perl www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi"?
[23:26:22] <alex_21>	.CGI"?
[23:26:45] <gewt>	wait
[23:26:48] <gewt>	i see a fix
[23:27:04] <Simetrical>	alex_21, this line of PHP will print the output of that command: passthru("perl www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi");
[23:28:41] <alex_21>	Ok, so the passthru sorks, now where do I include it to be at the top of my wiki pages
[23:28:52] <alex_21>	Works, sorry
[23:29:43] <Simetrical>	alex_21, try skins/MonoBook.php.  Scroll down a bit, it should be fairly obvious.  That will only work with MonoBook-based skins, though (some default skins won't be affected, in other words).
[23:35:26] <alex_21>	Hi, I am a perl developer, not a php developer, so I think I know where to put it, but I want to be sure. Is it right after the <body> tag?
[23:35:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  syntax to transclude a page without the containing page inheriting categories , interlanguage links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=835  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:40:37] <digwuren>	Is this the proper place to rant about all kinds of silly weirdness in MediaWiki's design?
[23:43:20] <FunPika>	Try Bugzilla? 
[23:43:46] <FunPika>	If there are improvements you want to see...
[23:44:23] <digwuren>	FunPika: well, actually I belive it would be better to start anew.
[23:44:37] <digwuren>	FunPika: So, I don't have bugs, I have rants -- and what I hope is a cleaner design.
[23:44:59] <FunPika>	O_O
[23:45:04] <digwuren>	I used to know somebody who had been rewriting MediaWiki in Java.  I hoped he'd be around so I could ask how far he got.
[23:45:10] <digwuren>	But that doesn't seem to be the case :(
[23:45:36] <digwuren>	FunPika: For example, the talkspace ideology is a good case of hasty generalisation in design.
[23:45:58] <digwuren>	FunPika: Thus, MediaWiki has all sorts of unnecessary namespaces.
[23:46:15] <digwuren>	FunPika: It would be cleaner and simpler if instead of Talk:whatever, discussions took place in Whatever/talk
[23:46:35] <digwuren>	the model becomes simpler *and* more powerful.
[23:46:48] <Mike_lifeguard>	Why would that be a good idea? That sounds like a terrible idea, actually.
[23:47:00] <digwuren>	Mike_lifeguard: Explain?
[23:47:24] <Mike_lifeguard>	Because the page Whatever/talk is in the content space
[23:47:50] <Mike_lifeguard>	and should be used for content
[23:47:51] <digwuren>	mike_There would *be* no "content space".
[23:47:51] <digwuren>	Mike_lifeguard: There would be "articles".  And some articles would have talk-articles associated with them.
[23:48:27] <Mike_lifeguard>	right, well it's not going to fly so whatever
[23:48:36] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44294 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/ (FlaggedRevs.hooks.php specialpages/Stabilization_body.php): Performance tweak
[23:48:39] <digwuren>	On an unrelated note, I believe that a separate fixed category namespace is unnecessary.
[23:49:13] <digwuren>	Wikis have for a long while worked on bidirectional links; what a category is is nothing more than a semantical sugar atop backlinks.
[23:50:15] <digwuren>	If we generalised for the backlink usage scenario rather than the specific "category" scenario, we'd, once again, get a simpler *and* more powerful system.
[23:51:22] <digwuren>	And then, there's the part where user access restriction goes like the Evil Overlord List says it *shouldn't* go
[23:51:24] <digwuren>	you can take on the bad guy with a MacGyver's knife or a tactical nuke, but not, say, a column of tanks.
[23:51:37] <digwuren>	*Every* half-decent comparable system is quite capable of managing ACLs of some sort or other!
[23:51:53] <digwuren>	But not MediaWiki.
[23:53:39] <werdnum>	If you have improvements to suggest, you may suggest them.
[23:53:55] <werdnum>	If you're just ranting and raving, then maybe you should rant and rave somewhere else.
[23:54:25] <digwuren>	werdnum: Would you believe I just suggested adding ACLs of some sort or other to MediaWiki ?
[23:54:49] <werdnum>	Adding ACLs has been repeatedly and roundly rejected.
[23:54:59] <digwuren>	And why is that?
[23:55:11] <werdnum>	A few reasons.
[23:55:23] <Simetrical>	digwuren, because brion doesn't want them.  :)
[23:55:27] <werdnum>	The first is that it would be a large amount of time and effort to implement them retroactively.
[23:55:33] <werdnum>	The second, related to the first, is that we don't want them.
[23:55:39] <digwuren>	Simetrical: Who is he, why doesn't he want them, and why does his opinion count?
[23:55:39] <Simetrical>	MediaWiki is mainly meant for Wikipedia, features for other wikis are generally secondary.
[23:55:50] <Simetrical>	digwuren, he's the CTO of the Wikimedia Foundation and lead developer of MediaWiki.
[23:55:57] <Simetrical>	That answers #1 and #3.
[23:56:01] <digwuren>	Ok.
[23:56:14] <werdnum>	The point of a wiki is that anyone can edit it. If you don't want everyone to edit, then you should use a real CMS instead of a wiki.
[23:56:16] <digwuren>	Simetrical: And #2 ?
[23:56:17] <werdnum>	digwuren: I just answered it.
[23:56:28] <Simetrical>	For #2, I don't know.  I've always said that if someone wants to maintain the support in core, they may as well be allowed to, as long as it doesn't interfere with other things.
[23:56:36] <digwuren>	werdnum: But a CMS is not an "upgraded version" of a wiki.
[23:56:48] <werdnum>	digwuren: Quite right, it's an entirely different paradigm.
[23:57:25] <Simetrical>	Good ACL support would require a lot of work to maintain, including possibly changes at many levels that we don't necessarily want to deal with.
[23:57:26] <Simetrical>	Given that MW is mostly for Wikipedia, which doesn't need ACLs.
[23:57:27] <digwuren>	werdnum: That's not the case, either.  They technological basis of a wiki and of a CMS have significant overlap.
[23:57:59] <digwuren>	Simetrical: Speaking of features specific to Wikipedia, what about a jury pool system?
[23:58:32] <Simetrical>	digwuren, I think that would be cool, but it would be way too controversial for enwiki, at least.
[23:58:46] <werdnum>	a "jury pool system"?
[23:58:59] <digwuren>	werdnum: Instead of having people self-select themselves on votes, a computer would pick them randomly.
[23:59:17] <werdnum>	Yes, that would be sexy, but enwiki wouldn't go for it.
[23:59:34] <werdnum>	They'd rabble about disenfranchisement and what-not.
[23:59:50] <digwuren>	And make other sorts of nonsensical claims, I'm sure.