[00:00:05] <digwuren>	But for proper neutrality in a public wiki, such a system is utterly necessary.
[00:01:25] <digwuren>	There are few alternatives that can work as well.
[00:01:28] <digwuren>	And the status quo is certainly much worse.
[00:01:30] <Simetrical>	I've always thought that having representative cross-sections make decisions is every bit as democratic as having the whole populace vote, and likely to give a more intelligent result.
[00:01:33] <Simetrical>	digwuren, well, someone has to put the time into writing such an extension.
[00:01:33] <Simetrical>	They don't magically appear out of thin air, unfortunately.
[00:01:40] <werdnum>	Not to say that they're necessarily stupid or that everything they say is nonsensical, but enwiki has an incredile inertia to radical change.
[00:01:41] <digwuren>	Simetrical: It's not that hard, actually.
[00:01:42] <Simetrical>	werdnum, or any change.
[00:01:47] <Simetrical>	digwuren, so when will your code be ready?  :)
[00:01:47] <digwuren>	Simetrical: it depends on what your definition of 'ready' is.
[00:01:50] <digwuren>	Simetrical: I believe you know what Knuth says, "No program is ever ready.  We just stop working on them."
[00:01:50] <werdnum>	That's a bit silly.
[00:01:53] <werdnum>	When will it be ready to deploy, is the obvious question.
[00:02:01] <Simetrical>	By whose standards?
[00:02:05] *Simetrical 	shrugs
[00:02:34] <werdnum>	Brion's, presumably.
[00:02:40] <digwuren>	Simetrical: that having been said, I have a simple playing prototype up and running now, I hope to do my first corporate demo shortly before the New Year, and I hope to achieve a production deployment around March.
[00:03:03] <Simetrical>	digwuren, you might be able to get commit access to check it into svn.wikimedia.org if you ask.
[00:03:28] <Simetrical>	Then maybe some Wikimedia wikis could request it to be enabled.
[00:03:29] <digwuren>	Simetrical: The prototype cheats, of course.  It's written in Ruby and SQLite.  It will probably require quite a bit of tweaking and possibly a rewrite before production.
[00:03:39] <Simetrical>	Um, yeah, probably then.
[00:03:53] <Simetrical>	Especially if it's going to run on any Wikipedia, scalability is kind of important.  :)
[00:04:09] <digwuren>	Simetrical: I'll keep that in mind, but I'm not particularly keen at this time.  I don't digest PHP at all.
[00:04:39] <digwuren>	Actually, we went off track.
[00:05:13] <Simetrical>	PHP sucks, admittedly, but it's a de facto standard, so we just have to deal with it.  Like X or something.
[00:05:21] *Dantman 	prefers to help make it possible to use another language
[00:05:24] <digwuren>	I was meaning to get some understanding behind the peculiar design choices of MediaWiki.
[00:05:57] <digwuren>	For example, why are categories all alike?
[00:06:27] <digwuren>	Why can't pages belong to categories in several ways?
[00:06:28] <werdnum>	"design choices" implies that there was some kind of planning :)
[00:06:33] <werdnum>	digwuren: you want SMW for multiple ways
[00:06:38] <werdnum>	!smw | digwuren 
[00:06:38] --mwbot--	digwuren: SemanticMediaWiki is an extension that lets you conenct wiki pages with semantic relations. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_MediaWiki> and <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/>. Mailing lists are available at <http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=147937>.
[00:06:39] <digwuren>	werdnum: Indeed.  Or you could consider it an euphemism for sake of politeness.
[00:06:55] <werdnum>	!hesaidsemantic
[00:06:55] --mwbot--	http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/576/hesaidsemanticga2.jpg
[00:07:22] <digwuren>	Why is there talkspace?
[00:07:43] <werdnum>	You should talk about 'namespaces'.
[00:07:50] <Simetrical>	digwuren, how else should articles be discussed?
[00:07:59] <digwuren>	werdnum: Well, I think some other aspects of the namespaces make more sense.
[00:08:03] <werdnum>	And there were talk namespaces to get discussion off the main article pages, where it used to be.
[00:08:06] <digwuren>	werdnum: But feel free to talk about them, too.
[00:08:27] <digwuren>	Simetrical: For example, they could be discussed on /talk subpages, as I explained.
[00:08:46] <werdnum>	That's a silly idea, for a few reasons.
[00:08:58] <Simetrical>	digwuren, that seems like a relatively trivial difference.  Who cares if it's Article/talk or Talk:Article?
[00:09:03] <digwuren>	werdnum: And you got cut off before you got a chance to explain all about the namespaces.
[00:09:10] <werdnum>	1/ There would be no technical division between discussion pages and content pages.
[00:09:25] <werdnum>	This means that we couldn't filter our dumps to remove discussion pages, for example.
[00:09:29] <Simetrical>	werdnum and I both became developers in like 2006, this kind of decision is way before our time.
[00:09:37] <digwuren>	Simetrical: The one who tries to understand WTF is [[Wikipedia talk:Random discussion thread]] there for.
[00:09:53] <digwuren>	werdnum: as for 1/, I do not believe that would be the case
[00:10:11] <digwuren>	werdnum: such a division would be an issue of pattern-matching, and both patterns are rather trivial for any commonly used patmatch systems;
[00:10:18] <Simetrical>	digwuren, there are some pages that don't logically deserve talk pages, but they're in a small minority.
[00:10:36] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44295 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: 
[00:10:38] <CIA-8>	*Minor cleanup
[00:10:38] <CIA-8>	*Whitespace
[00:10:38] <digwuren>	Simetrical: On another hand, I consider it a distracting wart that the namespace set is fixed.
[00:10:49] <werdnum>	Pattern-matching is expensive, filtering on a page_namespace,page_title index is cheap.
[00:10:53] <werdnum>	digwuren: is not.
[00:11:00] <werdnum>	$wgExtraNamespaces.
[00:11:01] <Simetrical>	digwuren, we distinguish namespaces more fundamentally than pattern-matching.  We index (page_namespace, page_title), so queries like SELECT * FROM page WHERE page_namespace=0 ORDER BY page_title LIMIT 10 are fast.
[00:11:21] <digwuren>	Simetrical: I know that part, but that does not refute my point.
[00:11:27] <werdnum>	Which point?
[00:11:42] <werdnum>	You haven't provided any advantage of your proposed system, nor a disadvantage of the current system.
[00:11:47] <digwuren>	Simetrical: It would be just as possible to parse the article names into slashed sections upon storage, and then SELECT over those sections.
[00:11:49] <werdnum>	Except this00:09 < digwuren> Simetrical: The one who tries to understand WTF is [[Wikipedia talk:Random discussion thread]] there for.
[00:12:01] <werdnum>	Except I don't really understand what you mean, perhaps you may expand?
[00:12:17] <Simetrical>	werdnum, [[Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)]] and its ilk, is my guess.
[00:12:25] <Simetrical>	Those are kind of pointless.
[00:12:30] <digwuren>	Simetrical: Good guess.
[00:12:39] <werdnum>	Sounds like a page for discussing the page 'Village pump (technical)' itself.
[00:12:46] <Simetrical>	werdnum, yes, but that's frankly pretty stupid.
[00:12:49] <werdnum>	Not that I imagine it will get much use.
[00:12:50] <Simetrical>	It's already a giant talk page.
[00:13:10] <Simetrical>	Just talk about it on itself.
[00:13:12] *werdnum 	shrugs.
[00:13:12] <Simetrical>	It's a trivial detail, though.
[00:13:13] <digwuren>	werdnum: One of the impotant parts of what I'm trying to achieve in my design is that you could watch "the other end of the links".
[00:13:16] <werdnum>	I don't think that makes it worth abandoning our entire namespace system for discussion.
[00:13:26] <digwuren>	werdnum: Something like successfully watching a category -- and seeing when things are added to it or removed from it.
[00:13:43] <werdnum>	That could be implemented, but it's not a priority.
[00:14:00] <werdnum>	If somebody wrote a patch for that which performed okay, we'd deploy it.
[00:14:14] <Simetrical>	digwuren, that would require versioning of the categorylinks table.  It's been repeatedly contemplated, but it would be a pain to implement.
[00:14:22] <Simetrical>	So nobody's done it yet.
[00:14:23] <digwuren>	werdnum: I'm not yet sure it could be done reasonably well, although that might be the case.
[00:14:28] <Simetrical>	To implement in a performant fashion, I mean, of course.
[00:14:34] <digwuren>	Simetrical: Why are categorylinks a special kind of links?
[00:15:05] <werdnum>	digwuren: because there's a big difference between saying "This article is in this category" and "You might be interested in this category"
[00:15:24] <digwuren>	Simetrical: I don't believe there's any real need for that.
[00:15:28] <Simetrical>	digwuren, because "all categories this page is in" is logically different from "all pages that link to this category".
[00:15:33] <digwuren>	werdnum: which is where different kinds of linkages would come in handy.
[00:15:40] <werdnum>	For example, at [[Wikipedia:Admin backlog]], we have a link to the category [[Category:Pages for speedy deletion]]
[00:15:49] <werdnum>	Clearly, the admin backlog is not a page for speedy deletion.
[00:16:06] <Simetrical>	digwuren, you're basically talking about SMW.  That's a possibly very valuable extension, but I haven't looked at it much.
[00:16:16] <digwuren>	werdnum: Currently, MediaWiki has the [[:category:...]] vs [[category:...] hack.
[00:16:17] <yksinaisyyteni>	werdnum: i thought getting rid of the backlog was the entire point!
[00:16:19] <werdnum>	Yes, perhaps some semantic relations might be nice, and they've been implemented in the Semantic MediaWiki extension, but that extension is not ready to deploy.
[00:16:22] <digwuren>	Simetrical: no, I'm not.
[00:17:03] <werdnum>	Why not?
[00:17:07] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: hehe
[00:17:59] <digwuren>	werdnum: anyway, back to the topic of /talk advantages
[00:18:14] <digwuren>	werdnum: the most obvious one: simplicity of defining ACL patterns.
[00:18:50] <digwuren>	Obviously, by-topic tie-in would also be necessary, but that's reasonably easy to achieve with categories (or equivalent).
[00:18:51] <werdnum>	Do explain.
[00:19:18] <werdnum>	You mean you want to define ACLs for Some Article and Some Article/Talk?
[00:19:37] <digwuren>	werdnum: Let's suppose User:Scrooge gets the ArbCom to ban User:BeagleBoy from articles on the topic of MoneyBin.
[00:20:37] <digwuren>	werdnum: Technical implementation of such a ban would depend on composing an ACL entry that would define the areas of the ban, and possibly the set of BeagleBoys involved.
[00:21:23] <werdnum>	... okay?
[00:21:24] <digwuren>	werdnum: I submit that if the MoneyBin talkpage was a subpage of MoneyBin rather than a standalone page in a different namespace, the topic area would be easier to define.
[00:21:35] <werdnum>	I don' agree.
[00:21:38] <werdnum>	don't*
[00:21:54] <digwuren>	werdnum: Or, if the interpreting engine would try hard to make the ease comparable, then the Talk:MoneyBin engine would be more complicated by its structure than the MoneyBin/talk engine.
[00:22:04] <werdnum>	to use some mysql pseudo-where, WHERE page_namespace IN (0,1) AND page_title='MoneyBin';
[00:22:09] <werdnum>	I think it would be easier, not harder.
[00:23:57] <digwuren>	werdnum: What about subpages, MoneyBin/Entrance/talk vs. Talk:MoneyBin/Entrace ?
[00:24:22] <werdnum>	We don't use subpages on Wikipedia anyway, but what's the difference there?
[00:24:39] <digwuren>	Well, except in places such as arbcom elections ... :)
[00:24:45] <werdnum>	I mean, I guess there is a slight ambiguity of "Is it a subpage of the talk page, or is it a talk page of the subpage?"
[00:25:14] <werdnum>	oh, I thought you meant in articles.
[00:25:16] <digwuren>	And actually, I believe that not using subpages is an important design mistake.
[00:25:16] <werdnum>	Subpages are ugly.
[00:25:17] <digwuren>	It leads to them getting used in a haphazard, unsystematic manner.
[00:25:33] <werdnum>	Anyway, I'm a little bored of arguing :)
[00:25:40] <werdnum>	if you have concrete suggestions, feel free to make them.
[00:25:50] <werdnum>	Otherwise, I'm gonna do something more productive :)
[00:25:57] <digwuren>	werdnum: That would depend on incremental improvability of MediaWiki.
[00:26:02] <digwuren>	werdnum: I only have one of those.
[00:26:39] <werdnum>	which is the jury thing?
[00:26:40] <digwuren>	werdnum: I hate it how when watching a page's old version, links in it lead to other pages' current versions.  They should lead to old versions of the same time as the original page.
[00:26:45] <digwuren>	werdnum: No, that's not even incremental; that's a strap-on.
[00:27:12] <digwuren>	werdnum: At considering that MediaWiki uses a complicated template system, this should apply to templates, too.
[00:28:42] <digwuren>	werdnum: In an ideal wiki, it would also be possible to watch sections of particular pages.  For example, particular threads of AN/I rather than the whole thing.
[00:28:55] <digwuren>	werdnum: But I do not think that fits into MediaWiki's data structures at all.
[00:29:13] <digwuren>	The closest thing it could do would be splitting every thread onto its own section, and using an announce page for new threads.
[00:29:40] <digwuren>	I mean -- every thread onto its own page -- which could be a subpage ;) -- and using an announce page for new threads.
[00:30:56] <jab>	Hello
[00:31:38] <jab>	I have a question about $wgSMTP
[00:31:45] <MikaelLindmark>	Is there anyway I could remove the "autoconfirmed users" thing from my wiki? I don't want it at all anywhere.
[00:34:13] <alex_21>	Hi, I am a perl developer, not a php developer, so I think I know where to put it, but I want to be sure. Is it right after the <body> tag? The passthru to perl that is?
[00:34:16] <jab>	My wiki is unable to send out emails
[00:35:29] <digwuren>	werdnum: MikaelLindmark's problem is actually on my Pet Peeve list.  It's just that there were bigger pets ahead of it.?
[00:36:12] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44296 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (AutoLoader.php Skin.php): 
[00:36:15] <CIA-8>	*Skip autoloading of skin, always does inefficient strtolower() stuff and fails (returns false) anyway
[00:36:16] <CIA-8>	*Add wfDebug() call on class load failure
[00:36:16] <werdnum>	00:31 < jab> I have a question about $wgSMTP
[00:36:18] <werdnum>	that's nice.
[00:36:20] <werdnum>	00:34 < alex_21> Hi, I am a perl developer, not a php developer, so I think I know where to put it, but I want to be sure. Is it right after the <body> tag? The passthru to perl that is?
[00:36:25] <werdnum>	put what passthru to perl?
[00:36:27] <werdnum>	00:31 < MikaelLindmark> Is there anyway I could remove the "autoconfirmed users" thing from my wiki? I don't want it at all anywhere.
[00:36:33] <werdnum>	$wgAutoPromote = array();
[00:37:32] <MikaelLindmark>	werdnum:OK, I'll try!  :)
[00:37:36] <alex_21>	The passthru to perl so that it spits back a header and then I can print it ot the browser. Also the same for the footer. Both are written in html
[00:37:37] <digwuren>	anyway, SMW *is* interesting.  I'll complain about it in a few days.
[00:41:00] <werdnum>	jab: to elaborate, if you want a question answered, you are supposed to actually ask it.
[00:41:08] <MikaelLindmark>	werdnum:I works, kind of. It would be nice to have it removed from "Special:ListGroupRights"
[00:41:08] <werdnum>	!ask
[00:41:08] --mwbot--	Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. Also, please read < http://workaround.org/moin/GettingHelpOnIrc > for a good explanation of getting help on IRC.
[00:41:22] <werdnum>	MikaelLindmark: unset( $wgGroupPermissions['autoconfirmed'] );
[00:41:50] <luna6>	hello...anybody would have an idea how to fix this rss issue? XML Parsing Error: XML or text declaration not at start of entity
[00:41:50] <luna6>	Location: http://asianmediawiki.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=rss
[00:41:50] <luna6>	Line Number 3, Column 1:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
[00:41:50] <luna6>	^
[00:42:22] <alex_21>	Where in MonoBook.php to I put the passthru() code for The passthru to perl so that it spits back a header and then I can print it ot the browser. Also the same for the footer. Both are written in html
[00:44:31] <alex_21>	I am trying to get rid of the IFrame in http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi
[00:46:19] <MikaelLindmark>	werdnum:It didn't go away. It's the last line. (running MediaWiki version 1.13.2) 
[00:48:24] <werdnum>	perhaps $wgImplicitGroups = array_diff( $wgImplicitGroups, 'autoconfirmed' );
[00:50:35] <MikaelLindmark>	Warning: in_array() [function.in-array]: Wrong datatype for second argument in /var/www/mediawiki/mediawiki-1.13.2/includes/specials/SpecialListgrouprights.php on line 65
[00:52:46] <MikaelLindmark>	werdnum:Didn't work.
[00:53:02] <jab>	no emails are being sent out to confirm email addresses.  I have included $wgSMTP but I fail to get any email.
[00:53:08] <MikaelLindmark>	werdnum:Anyway, thanks for the help.
[00:58:12] <alex_21>	I am trying to get rid of the IFrame in http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi I am going to read it in with passthru to perl and print it. I need to know hwere and how in MonoBook.php to inpliment the command and how. I think it could go right after the body tag, is this not so. I really need to fix this as right now it is one of two things that demands my attention, as it breaks our accessibility promise
[01:02:35] <alex_21>	I am trying to get rid of the IFrame in http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi I am going to read the header and footer  in with passthru to perl and print it. I need to know hwere and how in MonoBook.php to inpliment the command and how. I think it could go right after the body tag, is this not so. I really need to fix this as right now it is one of two things that demands my attention, as it breaks our accessibility promise
[01:14:19] <CIA-8>	03purodha * r44297 10/trunk/extensions/Collection/helppages/de-Hilfe_Sammlungen.txt: Help text correction forgotten in r44273.
[01:57:22] <alex_21>	I am trying to get rid of the IFrame in http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi I am going to read the header and footer  in with passthru to perl and print it. I need to know hwere and how in MonoBook.php to inpliment the command and how. I think it could go right after the body tag, is this not so. I really need to fix this as right now it is one of two things that demands my attention, as it breaks our accessibility promise
[02:10:37] <p858snake>	if you don't want it in that ugly frame i guess you could just use $wgBreakFrames or whatever its called
[02:11:09] <p858snake>	[[Manual:$wgBreakFrames]]
[02:11:20] <Skizzerz>	!man $wgBreakFrames
[02:11:20] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgBreakFrames
[02:11:21] <Skizzerz>	:)
[02:20:01] <alex_21>	Well, what I am trying to do is include the head and fot "ers" in the php code with a passthru
[02:31:11] <alex_21>	Tjanks for all your help
[02:31:19] <alex_21>	Good Night. Bani Bash
[02:53:16] <torny>	I jsut installed MediaWIki and I'm at the point it says to move config/LocalSettings.php to the parent directory
[02:53:23] <torny>	but there isn't a Localsettings.php f ile
[02:56:02] <torny>	nm found the answer
[03:03:10] <alex_21>	Hi, I want to include this after the body tag to include a header written in Perl. passthru("perl www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi");. Which line do I put it on?
[03:05:02] <alex_21>	Hi, In the MonoBook.php file I want to include this after the body tag to include a header written in Perl. passthru("perl www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi");. Which line do I put it on?
[03:17:52] <alex_21>	Hi, In the MonoBook.php file I want to include this after the body tag to include a header written in Perl. passthru("perl www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi");. Which line do I put it on?
[03:19:58] <CIA-8>	03laner * r44298 10/trunk/extensions/LdapAuthentication/LdapAutoAuthentication.php: Looks like I was missing $wgVersion; version checking probably doesn't work well without it, so I added it in.
[03:24:55] <alex_21>	Hi, In the MonoBook.php file I want to include this after the body tag to include a header written in Perl. passthru("curl http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/vip.cgi");. Which line do I put it on?
[03:28:19] <alex_21>	Never Mind, I fixed it, Yay
[03:28:29] <alex_21>	Yay!
[03:31:09] <alex_21>	Well, it looks horrible and all links are broken. where should I add this code instead?
[03:32:58] <CIA-8>	03laner * r44299 10/trunk/extensions/LdapAuthentication/LdapAuthentication.php: (log message trimmed)
[03:32:58] <CIA-8>	* Rewrote most of the group code. Should be slightly more efficient at some tasks, and slightly less efficient at others.
[03:32:58] <CIA-8>	** Added nested group support for group synchronization
[03:32:58] <CIA-8>	** Added memberOf support
[03:32:59] <CIA-8>	*** There is a minor issue with this: active directory is somewhat stupid, and
[03:33:01] <CIA-8>	it is extremely difficult to find a user's primary group. memberOf doesn't list
[03:33:03] <CIA-8>	primary groups, only secondary groups. As such, I'm not going to support primary
[03:33:51] <Ryan_Lane>	meh. looks like CIA didn't like my large commit comment :)
[03:36:31] <Sean_Colombo>	I've noticed that if there is a redirect to a page, even if nothing links to the actual page or to the redirect, that page is NOT considered to be an Orphaned Page
[03:36:51] <Sean_Colombo>	is that by design, or is that something we could fix?
[03:37:05] <alex_21>	Well, can someone look at this and tell me why things don't look right. Compare http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi and http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/indes.php
[03:37:20] <alex_21>	Well, can someone look at this and tell me why things don't look right. Compare http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi and http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php
[03:37:28] <alex_21>	Sorry
[03:37:29] <qsheets>	g'night
[03:41:26] <Sean_Colombo>	alex_21: I'm assuming you tried to create a layout and then put MediaWiki in the center pane?
[03:41:54] <Sean_Colombo>	that won't work quite so easily because a lot of the style of MediaWiki's default skin was done with absolute positioning
[03:43:57] <alex_21>	Oh, grr
[03:44:23] <alex_21>	I just added the line passthru curl http://site/headfile
[03:44:36] <alex_21>	Right under the body tag
[03:45:02] <alex_21>	Is there a way to easily get rid of all absolute possitioning?
[03:45:11] <Sean_Colombo>	well... 
[03:45:22] <Ryan_Lane>	alex_21: you can write your own skin...
[03:46:11] <alex_21>	I was simply trying to modify the current MonoBook theme because I don't know PHP and I don't plan on using CSS at all
[03:46:12] <Sean_Colombo>	I think the best way to merge MW into your site would be to make  a skin based off of skin/Monobook.php ... there are functions all over that file which output each different part... you can move those around in your HTML, then find the classes for them and change that as needed (to not have absolute positioning)
[03:46:39] <Sean_Colombo>	if you don't have it already... you'll probably need the FireBug extension for FireFox.  Well not "need" but it will save you no less than 7 billion hours ;)
[03:47:32] <alex_21>	Oh, supper big groan. I can't even use Firefox as it is inaccessible in itself
[03:47:45] <alex_21>	Puper big groan, with a screen reader
[03:48:09] <alex_21>	Is there a way to iliminate CSS or something?
[03:48:25] <Simetrical>	alex_21, sure, delete the lines that include the CSS files.
[03:48:39] <Sean_Colombo>	alex_21: sure... make your own skin based on Monobook.php and do as Simetrical said and delete those includes (in the <head> tag)
[03:48:45] <alex_21>	Which lines are those. Line numbers please.
[03:49:04] <alex_21>	I am really ot comfortable with PHP, so a little help sifting through it is appreciated
[03:49:18] <Sean_Colombo>	depends what version of MediaWiki
[03:49:35] <alex_21>	13.2
[03:49:42] <Simetrical>	alex_21, it depends on the exact version.  In my version it's at around lines 96-97, possibly line 92 . . . anything with <style> in it, at least.
[03:49:48] <Simetrical>	alex_21, do you want to remove scripts too?
[03:50:01] <alex_21>	Which scripts?
[03:50:24] <Simetrical>	alex_21, scripts in general.  JavaScript.
[03:50:57] <alex_21>	No, they are fine
[03:51:31] <alex_21>	I just need to inpliment this code
[03:51:55] <Simetrical>	alex_21, styles and scripts might be mixed together somewhat.  It might be tricky to remove only the styles.  You could just delete skins/monobook/*.css, that would do a pretty good job of cleaning out styles.
[03:56:30] <Sean_Colombo>	I've noticed that if there is a redirect to a page, even if nothing links to the actual page or to the redirect, that page is NOT considered to be an Orphaned Page.       Is that by design, or is that something we could fix?
[03:59:05] <alex_21>	Now I lost the code I inplimented
[03:59:13] <alex_21>	Everything else is still there
[04:03:18] <alex_21>	Never mind clearing all css file s did the trick
[04:05:13] <Merlissimo>	is flagged versions  an extensions in bugzilla?
[04:05:57] <alex_21>	My links in the header are broken though. What can I do
[04:05:57] <Merlissimo>	i have to report an fatal error from dewiki
[04:06:04] <alex_21>	?
[04:07:33] <Mike||busy>	Merlissimo: Yes.
[04:07:50] <Mike||busy>	Product -> MediaWiki Extensions; Component -> FlaggedRevs
[04:07:59] <Simetrical>	alex_21, you mean the links to CSS files?  That's going to happen, of course, if you delete the CSS files they link to.
[04:08:07] <Simetrical>	It shouldn't have any serious negative consequences.
[04:08:08] <alex_21>	I mean try the pop-up on the right of http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php It should resolve to http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi
[04:08:37] <alex_21>	Not the CSS files
[04:08:47] <Simetrical>	Oh.  Which pop-up?
[04:09:57] <alex_21>	The Right hand one set to websight, and the one to its right set to home
[04:12:22] <alex_21>	But anyone of them won't resolve
[04:13:01] <Simetrical>	alex_21, that's not part of MediaWiki, I'm not familiar with it.  Best to ask whoever wrote it for you.
[04:14:02] <alex_21>	I wrote it myself, but mediawiki seems to think that it is a file in the wiki, not a seperate page
[04:14:36] <alex_21>	I mean it adds it to the end of index/php/pagenamehere
[04:16:31] <alex_21>	Instead of going to the other file
[04:19:04] <Sean_Colombo>	alex_21: you can change your .htaccess file to not do the MediaWiki redirect for .cgi files
[04:21:24] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Fatal Flagged revs error causes 500 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16589 04BLOCKER; normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (bugreporter)
[04:31:59] <alex_21>	I solved it by changing my site design
[04:32:27] <alex_21>	But how do you do that for the .hdaccess file?
[04:33:16] <Sean_Colombo>	need a line towards the top (but below RewriteEngine On) which looks kinda like this:
[04:33:16] <Sean_Colombo>	RewriteRule ^[^:]*\.(php|src|jpg|jpeg|png|gif|bmp|css|js|inc|phtml|pl|ico|html|shtml|wsdl|lrc|xml|sql|gz|txt)$ - [L,NC]
[04:33:34] <Sean_Colombo>	but somewhere in there you should have |cgi| if you want the redirect not to apply to cgi's
[04:36:12] <alex_21>	Where is this file?
[04:37:22] <Sean_Colombo>	in the main MediaWiki directory
[04:37:32] <Sean_Colombo>	it may be hidden... you'll have to show hidden files
[04:37:38] <Sean_Colombo>	because the full filename is ".htaccess"
[04:39:24] <yksinaisyyteni>	hahah
[04:39:48] <yksinaisyyteni>	the shit people do to put article rewrites in the root...
[04:39:58] <alex_21>	I have no such file
[04:41:27] <alex_21>	Is is maybe because I put mv /mediawiki/ to /wiki/?
[04:43:13] <alex_21>	I have no.htaccess in any case
[04:52:35] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44300 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticForms/specials/SF_AddData.php: Added new 'sfEditFormPreloadText' hook
[04:56:45] <alex_21>	I have no.htaccess. what do I do?
[04:59:52] <Krimpet>	'touch .htaccess'?
[05:01:00] <alex_21>	It isn't there even when I show hidden files
[05:02:35] <werdnum>	alex_21: create one.
[05:22:23] <alex_21>	And put what in it?
[05:24:12] <werdnum>	what sean_colombo said
[05:32:19] <alex_21>	Ok, so I did include that, now what. I still won't work
[05:32:21] <alex_21>	?
[06:13:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10span
[06:13:04] <wikibugs>	style="text-transform:none">? That way uselang=de would work in wikis of any
[06:13:04] <wikibugs>	language, and uselang=en would still work properly on German wikis.
[06:13:05] <wikibugs>	-- 
[06:13:07] <wikibugs>	Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
[06:13:09] <wikibugs>	------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
[06:13:11] <wikibugs>	You are the assignee for the bug.
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[06:13:17] <wikibugs>	_______________________________________________
[06:13:19] <wikibugs>	Wikibugs-l mailing list
[06:13:21] <wikibugs>	Wikibugs-l)
[06:14:03] <Mike_lifeguard>	whee
[06:14:04] <chuck>	:X
[06:14:34] <p858snake>	well that was......
[06:14:37] <p858snake>	differnt
[06:14:41] <chuck>	indeed
[06:14:51] <Splarka>	wish it was different
[06:14:56] <Splarka>	it happens enough to be same-o
[06:15:23] <Splarka>	someone should like, find the bug in the email-scraping regex that makes it fail
[06:16:04] <Mike_lifeguard>	nodnod
[06:16:57] <p858snake>	maybe just not have the not use the same email address as someone else?
[06:17:15] <p858snake>	and then it shouldn't blurt it out like that
[06:19:40] <yksinaisyyteni>	what do you mean?
[06:57:34] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44301 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (5 files): Delay message loading
[08:13:03] <moe6545>	hello 
[08:13:03] <moe6545>	I'm using the mediawiki 1.7 on a debian stable installation.
[08:13:03] <moe6545>	My problem is that anybody will get an automatic logoff after some minutes. 
[08:13:03] <moe6545>	I need to increase the automatic logoff timeout.
[08:13:21] <moe6545>	I know the remember my login button. This is not usefull for me.
[08:13:29] <p858snake>	are they telling it to remember them for 30 days?
[08:16:36] <moe6545>	I don't realy understand what you mean. I need to increase the automatic log off time. Do you know how to do that?
[08:17:30] <yksinaisyyteni>	you probably need to change the session timeout in the php configuration
[08:17:34] <yksinaisyyteni>	(php.ini)
[08:18:24] <moe6545>	there are no session timeouts set in the php.ini
[08:18:52] <yksinaisyyteni>	then perhaps you need to set one
[08:19:26] <moe6545>	do you know the right ones?
[08:23:34] <moe6545>	no idea?
[08:38:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  +comment (10that.man.colin)
[08:52:34] <gbruin>	hey all
[09:15:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10en.haza-w)
[09:15:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10en.haza-w)
[09:20:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Concepts do not work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15559  (10dasch_87)
[09:46:47] *Jaqen 	has a problem with SpecialInterwiki extension
[09:49:11] <Jaqen>	this error http://rafb.net/p/MCN6x515.html
[09:52:22] <gbruin>	Jaqen, did you place the "SpecialInterwiki.php" file in the right folder?
[09:52:53] <_wooz>	lo
[09:53:09] <Jaqen>	gbruin: extension/Interwiki
[09:53:21] <Jaqen>	*extensions
[09:54:53] <gbruin>	and other extensions work?
[09:55:51] <Jaqen>	gbruin: yes (but I have just cite and parserfunctions)
[09:57:54] <gbruin>	i add my extensions with require_once("$IP/extensions/...), do you need the extra $IP path in front?
[10:01:24] <Jaqen>	gbruin: no error now, but there's no [[Speciale:Interwiki]] page
[10:02:57] <Jaqen>	mmhh, I'm wrong, same error as before
[10:03:05] <gbruin>	lol
[11:45:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10danny.b)
[11:48:22] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44302 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Skin.php: Tweak r44296: use autoloader if it is set there
[12:25:14] <Sean_Colombo>	I've noticed that if there is a redirect to a page, even if nothing links to the actual page or to the redirect, that page is NOT considered to be an Orphaned Page.       Is that by design, or is that something we could fix?
[12:32:03] <p858snake>	because the redirect is a link to the page?
[12:32:19] <Sean_Colombo>	yeah, that's why it's not getting counted now
[12:32:35] <Sean_Colombo>	(as an Orphan)
[12:40:19] <susanna__>	hi there
[12:40:29] <susanna__>	any clue w/getting pdf export to work ?
[12:44:10] <kam>	ciao
[12:51:23] <clarkee>	i moved my http directory and db to another server
[12:51:39] <clarkee>	and now when i hit index.php i get the message Restricted access
[12:51:53] <clarkee>	nothing in the access or error logs (except the normal access log line)
[12:52:41] <clarkee>	any clues?
[12:56:47] <p858snake>	localsettings.php correct?
[12:57:41] <clarkee>	i created the same database user with the same password
[12:57:47] <Sean_Colombo>	clarkee: sounds more like a permissions problem on your server
[12:57:49] <clarkee>	and everything else is the same (same ip even)
[12:58:01] <Sean_Colombo>	make sure the directories have read-permission for everyone
[12:59:03] <clarkee>	even after doing chmod -R 777 * i get the same issue
[12:59:12] <clarkee>	(and after restarting apache)
[13:01:58] <clarkee>	i've never seen the words Restricted access from apache before, so it's puzzling
[13:05:07] <clarkee>	and after pointing apache at custom error pages, i still get the same message, so i can determine it's mediawiki doing it
[13:09:07] <Sean_Colombo>	clarkee: MediaWiki doesn't have a generic "access denied" message... if you're not allowed to see the page, it will show up looking like a normal MediaWiki page with a message telling you to log in or whatever
[13:09:57] <clarkee>	Sean_Colombo: every non-mediawiki php works fine, every other file works fine
[13:10:28] <Sean_Colombo>	interesting
[13:10:31] <clarkee>	also, when i rename the LocalSettings.php to another name, and run the config script (which now works :?), the new LocalSettings.php file isn't generated in the config folder
[13:10:57] <Sean_Colombo>	usually means that the /config/ dir isn't writable
[13:10:58] <clarkee>	however, the html directory and the config directory are both 777
[13:11:03] <Sean_Colombo>	hmmm
[13:11:19] <clarkee>	drwxrwxrwx  2 apache apache   4096 Dec  8 11:30 config
[13:11:20] <Sean_Colombo>	very strange
[13:11:32] <p858snake>	clarkee: did you update the script location settings and ect in the localsettings file?
[13:11:51] <clarkee>	p858snake: the OS is the sameas it used to be as are all the file locations
[13:12:05] <clarkee>	so they are correct
[13:12:44] <p858snake>	i doubt every setting will be a exact duplicate of the pervious server, you will find differences
[13:12:56] <clarkee>	p858snake: the dvd it was installed from is the same
[13:13:35] <p858snake>	where/how does the dvd come into this <clarkee> i moved my http directory and db to another server
[13:13:47] <CIA-8>	03tstarling * r44303 10/trunk/extensions/TrustedXFF/ (generate.php trusted-hosts.txt): Added the list, with IWF proxies added.
[13:14:57] <clarkee>	p858snake: i'm telling you all the paths are identical to the old layout
[13:15:31] <p858snake>	full server paths such as the computers usernames and such?
[13:15:48] <clarkee>	yes
[13:22:44] <clarkee>	i think i'll try an upgrade on it
[13:24:40] <CIA-8>	03werdna * r44304 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.handler-db.php: Add a duplicate entry check for DB handler.
[13:30:18] <clarkee>	thanks for all your help guys
[13:30:27] <clarkee>	not quite there, but i appreciate the suggestions :)
[13:30:48] <werdnum>	clarkee: what's the problem?
[13:30:55] <werdnum>	12:51 < clarkee> and now when i hit index.php i get the message Restricted access
[13:30:59] <werdnum>	Full message, please?
[13:31:11] <werdnum>	Is that it? Just "Restricted access"?
[13:33:21] <clarkee>	just that
[13:33:33] <werdnum>	that's annoying.
[13:33:35] <clarkee>	i ran the upgrade to the latest release and now it's all working
[13:33:40] <clarkee>	EXCEPT the main_page
[13:33:41] <werdnum>	Strange.
[13:33:43] <clarkee>	which shows blank
[13:33:47] <werdnum>	.htaccess maybe?
[13:34:02] <clarkee>	i'm not getting that error now :P
[13:34:13] <clarkee>	i'm just getting a blank on the Main_Page
[13:35:03] <werdnum>	ew.
[13:35:23] <werdnum>	error log?
[13:36:18] <clarkee>	seems to be working after i generated a new LocalSettings now
[13:36:29] <clarkee>	not sure what happened there, but i'm happy that it's up and running again :/
[13:38:53] <clarkee>	so my tip is - keep fscking away at the issue until it goes away h3h
[13:41:01] <p858snake>	compare the two localsettings files now
[13:41:53] <EivindJ>	Hm, I've kinda run into a little problem ... I want DISPLAYTITLE to be able to overwrite title with anything
[13:41:58] <EivindJ>	and I've set $wgRestrictDisplayTitle = false;
[13:42:03] <EivindJ>	but it still doesn't work
[13:42:06] <EivindJ>	:(
[13:43:30] <EivindJ>	I've also set $wgAllowDisplayTitle to true
[13:44:55] <EivindJ>	someone who knows where the problem is?
[13:45:51] <werdnum>	I don't really know that much about DISPLAYTITLE.
[13:46:50] <EivindJ>	You don't know in which file it's localized either?
[13:48:18] <Splarka>	EivindJ: which version? $wgRestrictDisplayTitle is very new, 1.14 IIRC
[13:50:14] <EivindJ>	Hm, I probably have 1.13.2
[13:50:18] <EivindJ>	and that's too old?
[13:52:32] <Splarka>	yep
[13:52:59] <EivindJ>	gosh
[13:53:16] <EivindJ>	Splarka: Any easy way to make it work anyway?
[13:53:38] <EivindJ>	Maybe just some code in a file that needs to be deleted ;)
[13:53:50] <Splarka>	this came up like a few days ago
[13:53:59] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/39552
[13:54:03] <Splarka>	oops
[13:54:08] <Splarka>	damn Special:Code!
[13:54:14] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/?view=rev&revision=39552
[13:54:26] <Splarka>	just apply those patches, or just the one to CoreParserFunctions
[13:54:35] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/parser/CoreParserFunctions.php?r1=39552&r2=39551&pathrev=39552
[13:54:36] <Splarka>	that one
[13:54:39] <Splarka>	easy peasy
[13:55:23] <Sean_Colombo>	I've noticed that if there is a redirect to a page, even if nothing links to the actual page or to the redirect, that page is NOT considered to be an Orphaned Page.       Is that by design, or is that something we could fix?
[13:56:27] <EivindJ>	Splarka: Thanks a lot! ... I'll take a look at it and see if I can do it
[14:06:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Page saving error MW1.13 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16227  +comment (10marvinp)
[14:20:51] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44305 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/languages/SD_Messages.php: Added extension description message
[14:22:34] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44306 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/includes/SD_GlobalFunctions.php: 
[14:22:34] <CIA-8>	Fixed calls to registerProperty(), modified sdfGetValuesForProperty() to use
[14:22:34] <CIA-8>	SMW 1.4's functionality when possible
[14:23:17] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44307 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/includes/SD_Filter.php: Modified calls to sdfGetValuesForProperty()
[14:25:15] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44308 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/specials/SD_BrowseData.php: Modified calls to sdfGetValuesForProperty()
[14:26:51] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44309 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/specials/SD_CreateFilter.php: 
[14:26:51] <CIA-8>	Declarations of some properties no longer require a namespace if version of SMW is
[14:26:51] <CIA-8>	1.4 or higher (since they're now special properties)
[14:27:17] <CIA-8>	03yaron * r44310 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/INSTALL: New version, 0.5.1
[14:29:56] <EivindJ>	Splarka: That worked great (:
[14:40:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[15:19:10] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44311 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (59 files in 13 dirs): play_or_pause fixes, timeline playhead updates
[15:35:19] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44312 10/trunk/phase3/includes/AutoLoader.php: Check if wfDebug() is defined before calling it since AutoLoader.php is loaded before GlobalFunctions.php and may result in fatal error
[15:52:46] <Sean_Colombo>	I've noticed that if there is a redirect to a page, even if nothing links to the actual page or to the redirect, that page is NOT considered to be an Orphaned Page.       Is that by design, or is that something we could fix?
[15:55:38] <Simetrical>	Sean_Colombo, probably fixable.
[15:55:43] <Simetrical>	Well, maybe.
[15:55:54] <Simetrical>	Depends on how orphanedpages is calculated.
[15:56:07] <Simetrical>	It might not be worth the effort.
[15:56:17] <Sean_Colombo>	Simetrical: so, assuming we could figure out a way to do it efficiently, that is desirable though, right?
[15:58:31] <Sean_Colombo>	at least to me, it still seems "Orphaned" if there are only redirects (logically, redirects seem like the same entity... not another which is linking to that entity)
[16:51:12] <curvin>	I think I've narrowed down a problem I'm having with getting math code to render to the database.  Any idea on what in the database would cause problems with rendering math equations (LaTeX)?
[16:51:52] <mikevanhoff>	good morning
[16:52:08] <curvin>	I've put up a fresh install of mediawiki and tested math code and it works.  As soon as I change the database to point to my existing wiki, I get unable to parse error unknown
[16:52:30] <curvin>	Mornin!
[16:53:56] <Wuzur>	curvin: Have you run maintance/update.php?
[16:54:26] <curvin>	I have.
[16:56:33] <mikevanhoff>	I am new to mediawiki, so be brutal if you must.  
[16:56:58] <mikevanhoff>	Where do I change the settings to allow the uploading of html pages
[16:57:23] <mikevanhoff>	this would ne an internal website, so management is willing to take risks
[16:58:04] <Wuzur>	mikevanhoff: add  $wgFileExtensions[] = 'htm'; to the end of LocalSettings.php
[16:58:48] <Wuzur>	curvin: Sorry, I can't help you
[16:58:48] <ialex>	you also need to remove mime types from $wgMimeTypeBlacklist and extensions from $wgFileBlacklist
[16:59:19] <mikevanhoff>	I did hte first, let me check the second
[16:59:20] <Wuzur>	ialex: Jep, just saw
[17:01:13] <Wuzur>	mikevanhoff: The simplest thing (but not a good method) would be to add $wgFileBlacklist=false; $wgMimeTypeBlacklist=false;
[17:01:52] <ialex>	Wuzur: array() would be better to avoid PHP errors ;)
[17:02:12] <Wuzur>	ialex: Does it loop through the array?
[17:02:16] <mikevanhoff>	those 2 entries do not exist
[17:02:33] <Wuzur>	ialex: hmm, you're right
[17:03:16] <Wuzur>	mikevanhoff: just add $wgFileBlacklist=array(); $wgMimeTypeBlacklist=array(); to the end
[17:03:19] <ialex>	$wgMimeTypeBlacklist=null; should work
[17:07:17] <mikevanhoff>	Wuzur - lalex - that worked - Thanks
[17:07:48] <mikevanhoff>	afk
[17:08:16] <Wuzur>	mikevanhoff: If you want the users to allow all filetypes you can add $wgStrictFileExtensions = false; too (in a closed wiki maybe not the problem)
[17:18:26] <Wuzur>	As we had this topic now... It is possible to have different user groups be allowed to upload different file types without hacking the MW base or writing an extension?
[17:27:04] <ialex>	Wuzur: no iirc
[17:27:41] <Wuzur>	ok, then going to write some things together later on
[17:29:38] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44313 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiFormatYaml_spyc.php: 
[17:29:38] <CIA-8>	* fix doxygen warnings
[17:29:38] <CIA-8>	* fix whitespaces
[17:29:57] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Invalid HTML if both "about" and "disclaimer" are "-" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590 normal; normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (jidanni)
[17:35:46] <master_>	How can I fix this problem:  My images directory was a mounted nfs export. The directory is was mounted on already held an early version of the same image files.  The share was disconnected for a few days without me knowing and images were added to the underlying directory--now they are mixed in two places...
[17:36:01] <master_>	Is there anything I can do?
[17:43:52] <master_>	nothing to do?
[17:46:47] <ewanchic>	master_: well, if you move the images from your linux directory to your ntfs folder, you'll need to make modification to the database entiries.
[17:47:22] <master_>	ewanchic: right...  or.. maybe not.
[17:47:41] <ewanchic>	master_: I'm sure a simple SQL statement like UPDATE on a WHERE search should do it quickly
[17:47:46] <master_>	After all, those entries should still be in the database--right?
[17:48:08] <master_>	Ok.. dang.. meeting itme now.. will come back after meeting
[17:48:25] <ewanchic>	master_: I assume so. I use a postgreSQL db. I'm not sure what you use.
[18:06:40] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) accesskey method undefined - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16372  (10Art.Kalb)
[18:09:44] <ghee22>	hlo, i'm in search for an extension that can insert pages to my mediawiki from a script
[18:10:10] <Platonides>	ghee22, have you looked on your maintenance folder?
[18:10:32] <ghee22>	no, i will check that, thank you Platonides
[18:11:05] <Platonides>	:)
[18:11:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) accesskey method undefined - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16372  +comment (10brion)
[18:11:36] <ghee22>	Platonides, i am on this site:  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_Matrix and I do not see a maintenance folder
[18:13:31] <Platonides>	on your mediawiki intall
[18:13:56] <Platonides>	*install
[18:25:57] <mikevanhoff>	Wuzur - lalex - I spoke too soon.  The file uploaded, but does not display
[18:26:22] <bango>	hey i use this extension on my media wiki http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Social_Bookmarking
[18:26:56] <bango>	how can i change the postion of the bookmarks, at the moment the bookmarks are on the bottom of each page, but i want them on the top of each page, how can i do this?
[18:28:19] <bango>	hm?
[18:31:19] <ghee22>	Platonides, i looked in this directory. i see many php files.  Some starting with import
[18:31:26] <ghee22>	is this what you are reffering to?
[18:51:57] <bango>	<bango> hey i use this extension on my media wiki http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Social_Bookmarking
[18:51:58] <bango>	<bango> how can i change the postion of the bookmarks, at the moment the bookmarks are on the bottom of each page, but i want them on the top of each page, how can i do this?
[18:54:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SVG client side rendering - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3593  +comment (10alvaro.segura)
[19:11:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) problems getting thumbnails with chopped ogg streams - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15920  15enhancement->normal; normal->high; +comment (10dale)
[19:11:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SVG client side rendering - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3593  (10dan_the_man)
[19:12:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10danny.b)
[19:12:40] <ghee22>	i'm looking for an extension similar to Extension:Include but will automatically refresh the content
[19:13:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SVG client side rendering - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3593  (10dan_the_man)
[19:14:05] <mdale>	... hopefully someone can take a look at bug 15920 ... since I think it should be a quick fix ... and will make it work much better with all the ogg theora content that  archive.org just recently deployed. 
[19:14:12] <mdale>	(not to mention metavid.org videos ;)
[19:15:29] <brion>	mdale: sec :)
[19:15:42] <mdale>	gracias :)
[19:15:46] <brion>	i thought we already had that in.... hrm
[19:16:10] <ghee22>	Like a way to include dynamic external file into mediawiki
[19:16:12] <mdale>	yea maybe its the version of ffmpeg .. not sure at one point they started supporting ogg skeleton stream mappings 
[19:16:30] <brion>	we *definitely* have the ffmpeg problem 
[19:16:52] <mdale>	oky... I imagine its not as simple as doing apt-get update ffmpeg ? 
[19:17:06] <brion>	:)
[19:17:13] <brion>	lemme check the situation
[19:21:06] <brion>	ok it got applied and removed in the middle of some other revert war :D
[19:21:09] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44314 10/trunk/extensions/OggHandler/OggHandler_body.php: 
[19:21:09] <CIA-8>	Re-apply the bug 15920 patch, which got reverted in the middle of other things by mistake.
[19:21:10] <CIA-8>	Re-tries thumbnailing with some funky mapping for chopped oggs.
[19:21:10] <brion>	let's apply it and see what happens
[19:23:26] <brion>	mdale: ok try it now :D
[19:27:54] <brion>	srv46:  	ffmpeg: missing argument for option '--version'
[19:27:56] <brion>	:P
[19:28:07] <brion>	srv100: 	ffmpeg      SVN-rUNKNOWN
[19:29:16] <mdale>	nice
[19:30:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) problems getting thumbnails with chopped ogg streams - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15920  (10brion)
[19:32:14] <brion>	mdale: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16167
[19:32:18] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) problems getting thumbnails with chopped ogg streams - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15920  +comment (10brion)
[19:32:43] <mdale>	ahh
[19:37:36] <brion>	mdale: we may or may not have a stock ubuntu ffmpeg package here...
[19:37:36] <brion>	Version: 3:0.cvs20070307-5ubuntu7.1
[19:42:24] <brion>	well i don't see an ffmpeg package in hardy-backports
[19:42:36] <brion>	and i certainly don't want to go fucking with package versioning on these right now :)
[19:42:43] <brion>	i'll make tim take a look, i beleive he set these boxes up
[19:45:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  ffmpeg thumbnailing of Ogg videos barfs on Ogg Skeleton metadata - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16167  (10brion)
[19:47:36] <mikevanhoff>	Wuzur - lalex - I spoke too soon.  The file does not upload, I get a warning about the file having html code and may not display correctly
[19:47:55] <mikevanhoff>	but the file doesa not get wtritten to the upload dir
[19:51:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10N/A)
[19:51:36] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Extremely large videos don't play - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16591 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki extensions: OggHandler; (mikelifeguard)
[19:52:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extremely large videos don't play for some people - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16591  summary (10brion)
[20:13:16] <kanne>	hi folks, someone willing to give me some advice with a mediawiki auth (?) problem?
[20:14:48] <kanne>	the problem is as follows: i installed nightly build of mediawiki and imported existing mysql mediawiki database from an earlier mediawiki install (think 1.11.x)
[20:14:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10N/A)
[20:17:05] <kanne>	when trying to log into the new mediawiki with the old credentials of e.g. the admin user, mediawiki accepts the credentials as expected, but does not show that the user is signed in, i.e. on the top right, i still see the IP adress as if the user isn't/wasn't logged in
[20:18:20] <kanne>	would be glad for any advice as i couldn't find any clues via bugzilla
[20:31:46] <Duesentrieb>	kanne: after importing the sql, did you run the updater?
[20:32:05] <Duesentrieb>	usually, you isntall a new version on top of an existign database. importing sql later is generally a bad idea.
[20:32:21] <Duesentrieb>	because that way, the data doesn'*t get adapted to the new veryion
[20:32:44] <Duesentrieb>	on the other hand, your problem doesn't really sound like it was caused by a db schema incompatibility.
[20:32:58] <Duesentrieb>	it sounds like an unrelated session problem
[20:33:00] <Duesentrieb>	!session
[20:33:00] --mwbot--	make sure session.save_path is set correctly in your php.ini. Verify that it exists, is readable and writable to PHP, and check that session data is actually being written there. On a server farm, make sure it's a shared directory, accessible from all servers.
[20:35:32] <kanne>	Duesentrieb: thx so far. is it netiquette to talk english in here? i suspect you are german looking at your name ;) english is fine though too
[20:36:15] <Duesentrieb>	english is polite if you can speek it, but other languages are ok. english also improves the chances of someone else helping you.
[20:36:29] <Duesentrieb>	I'm prone to get distracted and wonder off :P
[20:36:55] <Duesentrieb>	.oO(oh man, it's that time again. i can't type any more)
[20:37:05] <kanne>	when saying, i was importing the old database, i actually did, what you were advising me to do, that is i pointed the mediawiki installer to the old database. what i said was maybe a bit confusing.
[20:38:09] <kanne>	so, the database should be correctly imported (by the mediawiki installer) as this is also what the installer told me
[20:39:19] <kanne>	the session path is set correctly in php.ini too
[20:39:56] <kanne>	when creating a new database with the nightly build i have no trouble logging in properly
[20:42:47] <Duesentrieb>	well, if you are logged in or not is decided baded on the session data
[20:42:57] <Duesentrieb>	the session is (normally) not stored in the database at all
[20:43:02] <Duesentrieb>	so i can't see a connection.
[20:43:17] <Duesentrieb>	can you verify that session data is actually being written?
[20:43:29] <Duesentrieb>	i have full disks cause that problem :)
[20:43:34] <Duesentrieb>	+seen
[20:43:50] <Dantman|Work>	check the error logs?
[20:43:57] <Duesentrieb>	that too
[20:43:59] <Duesentrieb>	!debug
[20:43:59] --mwbot--	For information on debugging (including viewing errors), see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_debug>.
[20:47:45] <kanne>	Duesentrieb: i can not check right now, as the server is inside my firewalled company, but i can definitely say that i checked that session path variable and i also checked there were actual files in that directory (btw it is a xampp poc installation)
[20:49:03] <kanne>	Dantman|Work: i will see for the error logs tomorrow and hope to find something there. the issue didn't appear to me as if it was worth getting logged
[20:49:27] <kanne>	Duesentrieb: i will also check the how_to_debug link
[20:49:49] <Duesentrieb>	kanne: well, if it's caused by some silly php thing like an uninitialized variable for some reason, that might show once you crank up error reporting
[20:49:53] <Duesentrieb>	i'd hope for that
[20:50:05] <Bluegoblin7>	hi all, what do you suggest, CentralAuth or a shared user table?
[20:50:06] <Duesentrieb>	anyway... nightly are random snapshots
[20:50:11] <Duesentrieb>	they may simply be broken
[20:50:27] <Duesentrieb>	if you want a *little* stability, use the revisions that go live on wikipedia
[20:50:37] <Duesentrieb>	Bluegoblin7: shared user table
[20:50:52] <Bluegoblin7>	Duesentrieb: thanks, i thought as much
[20:50:58] <Duesentrieb>	centralauth is very complex. it's for merging the user bases of multiple large sites.
[20:51:01] <Bluegoblin7>	it's a bit iffy outside of WMF isnt it?
[20:51:05] <Duesentrieb>	if you set up fresh, there's no reason to use it
[20:51:07] <kanne>	what wonders me is that the same xampp installation with all config files being the same does not cause the issue with a fresh mediwiki database with a fresh admin user
[20:51:16] <Duesentrieb>	Bluegoblin7: iffy and quite useless
[20:51:33] <Duesentrieb>	kanne: there may be a million reasons
[20:51:34] <Bluegoblin7>	Duesentrieb: thanks ;)
[20:51:52] <Bluegoblin7>	im just trying to weigh it up for a large collection of language wikis
[20:52:12] <Duesentrieb>	as i seid: if you set up fresh, just use a shared table
[20:52:20] <Duesentrieb>	no reason not to
[20:52:55] <Bluegoblin7>	Duesentrieb: hmm... ok, problem is is that we already have lots of users in place
[20:52:59] <Bluegoblin7>	ive done it in the past
[20:53:17] <kanne>	Duesentrieb: ok thx... i will check the logs tomorrow and hope to find something there...
[20:53:20] <Bluegoblin7>	but not with as many conflicting usernames and also can edit counts be preserved or would they need to be manually changed?
[20:53:39] <Duesentrieb>	no idea about edit counts.
[20:53:57] <Bluegoblin7>	ok
[20:53:58] <Duesentrieb>	merging manually seems a bit scary. but maybe not more of a problem than setting up central auth
[20:54:05] <Bluegoblin7>	hmmm ok
[20:54:21] <Bluegoblin7>	can  it be done automatically?
[20:54:29] <Duesentrieb>	i don't think so.
[20:54:31] <Bluegoblin7>	we dont really want to make users re-create accounts etc
[20:54:32] <Bluegoblin7>	ok
[20:54:34] <Bluegoblin7>	thanks
[20:54:38] <Duesentrieb>	you can rename users
[20:54:40] <Bluegoblin7>	i think ill try on a test wiki first
[20:54:43] <Duesentrieb>	rename until there are no more conflicts
[20:54:47] <Bluegoblin7>	yeh i was aware of that
[20:54:48] <Duesentrieb>	yes, do that
[20:54:54] <Duesentrieb>	and backup, backup, backup :=
[20:54:59] <Bluegoblin7>	yeh that was the plan, rename all but the most active
[20:55:01] <kanne>	something else i have in mind is the following: if you were to have a decent wiki like mediawiki and wanted to integrated (e.g. single sign on) with some blog software, what would be your choice to get it done nicely?
[20:55:12] <Bluegoblin7>	yep ;) ill keep the active wikis on the solo table until the merged is ready
[20:55:18] <Bluegoblin7>	then back up all the main wikis
[20:55:18] <Duesentrieb>	kanne: depends on what "integrate" means.
[20:55:28] <Bluegoblin7>	and then change to the shared table
[20:57:36] <kanne>	Duesentrieb: ideally the users have a common interface (not highest priority) to both functionalities (wiki+blog) and have only to sign in once (high priority) and can search on both at the same time (highest priority)
[20:58:46] <Duesentrieb>	reusing userbase is simple. single signon is not so simple, but quite doable.
[20:59:00] <Duesentrieb>	common search... uh... no idea how to do that. google site search?
[20:59:27] <Duesentrieb>	common interface... i donÄt think that's possible, unless you do your blogging with some mediawiki extension
[20:59:42] <Duesentrieb>	there are some that allow somethign liek a blog, but i don't know of anything very convenient.
[21:00:38] <Bluegoblin7>	Duesentrieb: the userbase should be pretty easy
[21:00:50] <Bluegoblin7>	as for the SSO - wouldnt a cookie for all the languages do it?
[21:01:20] <Duesentrieb>	i think so, yes, but i don't know
[21:01:57] <kanne>	ok, thx. for search google is not an option since the server is not connected to the internet. i will search the net a little more for some clues on single sign on. 
[21:03:09] <Bluegoblin7>	Desentrieb: thanks
[21:03:21] <Bluegoblin7>	is the OpenID extension available to be used without CentralAuth
[21:03:36] <Dantman|Work>	OpenID has nothing to do with CentralAuth
[21:03:46] <Dantman|Work>	Though, I had issues with it
[21:04:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) whitelist interface strings of Wikimedia Commons for translation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5925  (10N/A)
[21:07:10] <Bluegoblin7>	Dantman|Work: ok
[21:07:19] <Bluegoblin7>	i was told you could only use it with CentralAuth
[21:37:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Invalid HTML if both "about" and "disclaimer" are "-" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590  (10danny.b)
[21:37:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) XHTML compliance (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=209  (10danny.b)
[21:48:34] <CIA-8>	03nad * r44315 10/trunk/extensions/PdfBook/PdfBook.php: allow changing of charset
[21:49:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Invalid HTML if both "about" and "disclaimer" are "-" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590  (10Platonides)
[21:51:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Invalid HTML if both "about" and "disclaimer" are "-" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16590  (10brion)
[21:56:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SVG client side rendering - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3593  (10brion)
[22:01:34] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Importing a page appears as upload on the irc feed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16592 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Export/Import; (Platonides)
[22:04:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Integration with FCK editor fails in IE (free text field) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15877  (10yaron57)
[22:05:50] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Request for a new feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16593 15enhancement; normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (sindre.froyn)
[22:07:46] <Mike_lifeguard>	Giving the search field focus has been requested before and WONTFIXED, right?
[22:07:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Focus search bar on load of mainpage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16593  summary; +comment (10sam)
[22:07:59] <nakon>	yes, I'm trying to find the old bug
[22:08:01] <Reedy>	i've just changed the title
[22:08:04] <Reedy>	i was thinking the same
[22:08:06] <Reedy>	not so long ago
[22:08:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) wpEditToken loses trailing slash in php-5.2.7 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16570  (10brion)
[22:08:43] <AaronSchulz>	hrm
[22:08:53] <Reedy>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1864
[22:08:57] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Focus search bar on load of mainpage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16593  +comment (10mikelifeguard)
[22:08:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Cursor should be placed in the search box - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1864  +comment (10mikelifeguard)
[22:09:09] <Simetrical>	Mike_lifeguard, like 50,000,000 times.
[22:09:17] <Mike_lifeguard>	heh
[22:09:37] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Importing a page appears as upload on the irc feed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16592  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[22:17:07] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Unpublished draft versions by non-approved editors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=568  +comment (10nakonwiki)
[22:20:41] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44316 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.hooks.php: Improve caching
[22:22:09] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Option to focus cursor in search box on main page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1864  summary; +comment (10brion)
[22:22:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10Platonides)
[22:26:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Contributions from major UK ISPs being assigned to the same two IP addresses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16569  (10brion)
[22:27:42] <werdnum>	g'mornng.
[22:29:27] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Quality Code (implementation of a voting system) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5144  +comment (10nakonwiki)
[22:29:30] <nakon>	morning
[22:29:42] <nakon>	well, evening here 
[22:31:10] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44317 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Make pageCond() use PK is ID is already cached
[22:35:47] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) s:cs: settings - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16277  +comment (10rhalsell)
[22:36:32] <brion>	woot
[22:36:55] <werdnum>	what's so w00tworthy, other than me showing up?
[22:42:35] <werdnum>	brion: have a few spare moments?
[22:43:07] <AaronSchulz>	brion: did you get my email?
[22:44:04] *werdnum 	woz first.
[22:44:06] *werdnum 	hides.
[22:44:39] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Please set up wiki for Wikimedia Norge - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15383  +comment (10rhalsell)
[22:49:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) whitelist interface strings of Wikimedia Commons for translation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5925  +comment (10Platonides)
[22:50:31] <brion>	heh... -			// WARNING: CRAPPY CUT AND PASTE MAKES BABY JESUS CRY
[22:52:06] <werdnum>	brion: where's that? :)
[22:53:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Update to cite.php refs: ids fixed, footnotes, globbed links - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16294  (10brion)
[22:53:27] <CIA-8>	03tomasz * r44318 10/trunk/extensions/CentralNotice/ (7 files): adding support for preferred notices. starting to refactor db functions to their own class
[22:53:42] <brion>	in cite
[22:53:50] <werdnum>	whee
[22:54:25] <FunnyMan3595>	I get the most... "interesting" problems.
[22:54:34] <werdnum>	really?
[22:54:41] <FunnyMan3595>	$wgNamespacesWithSubpages isn't working for me.
[22:55:01] <werdnum>	Maybe you should try paying it more.
[22:55:13] <werdnum>	... or describing your problem in greater detail.
[22:55:15] <FunnyMan3595>	I set it to true for a namespace, and nothing happens.
[22:55:25] <werdnum>	What exactly have you done, and what do you expect to happen, and what really happens?
[22:55:28] <FunnyMan3595>	Going straight off of the examples at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgNamespacesWithSubpages
[22:56:23] <FunnyMan3595>	I've enabled it for all namespaces, but it seems to have exactly the default behavior.  User: and User_talk: have subpages, but not main or my custom namespaces.
[22:56:36] <werdnum>	How exactly have you enabled it?
[22:57:02] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: Added the lines in the code box for "Enabling for all namespaces" to LocalSettings.php.
[22:57:32] <werdnum>	where in LocalSettings.php?
[22:57:44] <master_>	Why might media wiki say i file doesn't exist (/var/www/prodapps/wiki/mediawiki/files/Wiki/ctltwiki/images/thumb/b/b8/Goals_and_principles.jpg/150px-Goals_and_principles.jpg) when it clearly does..
[22:57:56] <master_>	I can ls it...
[22:58:04] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: Near the end, but before I load my extensions, so I know it's going through that line.
[22:58:08] <werdnum>	permissions, perhaps?
[22:58:31] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: Check the parent directories, one of them is probably not webserver-readable.
[22:58:35] <master_>	werdnum: not a permission issue.. other images have the same permissions--they all do, it's all squashed over an nfs share
[22:58:44] <werdnum>	FunnyMan3595: on the very last line of LocalSettings.php, add 'var_dump( $wgNamespacesWithSubpages ); die;'
[22:58:50] <werdnum>	then visit a page, and pastebin the output.
[22:58:58] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) Export/Import break HTML-style tags - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16554  +comment (10brion)
[22:59:44] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: array(200) of [$NUM]=> bool(true)
[22:59:46] <FunnyMan3595>	As expected.
[23:00:03] <werdnum>	okay, remove that line.
[23:00:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Rights don't fit in - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16364  (10brion)
[23:00:27] <werdnum>	try purging the affected pages.
[23:00:57] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: Right now, I'm looking at it through nonexistent pages, so they shouldn't have anything to purge.
[23:01:08] <FunnyMan3595>	Further, editing LocalSettings.php does an auto-purge on all pages.
[23:01:08] <master_>	Is it possible that mediawiki doesn't think the file exists because it lacks a database record of it?
[23:01:18] <werdnum>	Yes, that's true.
[23:01:20] <master_>	What table/s store image records?
[23:01:34] <werdnum>	master_: the image table?
[23:02:01] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: I do sort of know what I'm doing, but it's what MediaWiki is doing (or, rather, not doing) that I don't understand.
[23:02:08] <werdnum>	heh :)
[23:02:14] <werdnum>	FunnyMan3595: Is your wiki public?
[23:02:29] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: No.
[23:02:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigation headings should not be lower-cased in German - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:03:02] <master_>	werdnum: looking in there now..
[23:03:20] <werdnum>	FunnyMan3595: so to clarify, you expect to have breadcrumbs displayed at the top for all namespaces, but only some namespaces have them.
[23:03:51] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: That would be correct.  I also expect the [[/My Subpage]] link form to work, and it does not.
[23:04:55] <FunnyMan3595>	Links to an article titled "/My Subpage" instead.
[23:05:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Gender switch in user preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13040  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:05:28] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: Told you I got "interesting" problems.
[23:07:05] <werdnum>	I'm not entirely sure why MediaWiki would not honour such a setting.
[23:07:10] <FunnyMan3595>	Tempted to delve down into the heart of the code, see if I can find where it's getting lost.
[23:07:13] <werdnum>	The only thing I can think of is some sort of caching.
[23:09:02] <FunnyMan3595>	Hmm, think I may have just figured it out.  Moment...
[23:09:36] <FunnyMan3595>	Yup.  I've got an extension breaking the subpage links, and the breadcrumbs only work if the parent page exists.
[23:09:42] <FunnyMan3595>	Gah.
[23:10:24] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Gender switch in user preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13040  (10brion)
[23:10:37] <FunnyMan3595>	Bleh, fixing that extension will be annoying.
[23:10:38] <CIA-8>	03simetrical * r44319 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Fix MySQL-centrism in comment
[23:10:45] <master_>	The image is there and is accessible.. I cannot understand why mediawiki doesn't see it.
[23:10:59] <master_>	mediawiki clearly knows the proper path to it.
[23:11:11] <Reedy>	any apache log errors?
[23:11:26] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: Try su-ing to the web user (assuming you can) and making sure that you can see the file.
[23:12:14] <master_>	yes.. apache is showing lots of file does not exist errors
[23:13:16] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: Can you su/sudo the web user?
[23:14:58] <master_>	File does not exist: /var/www/prodapps/wiki/mediawiki/favicon.ico
[23:15:18] <master_>	I am root.. let me become the web user
[23:15:56] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Provide a way to get site notices also shown without JavaScript , at least rudimentarily - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16240  +comment (10brion)
[23:16:52] <master_>	cannot sue to apache.. says: This account is currently not available.
[23:17:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special: NoticeTemplate does not work if the content language is not English - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16321  (10brion)
[23:17:39] *Simetrical 	considers adding a female alias to the Hebrew user namespace
[23:18:19] <FunnyMan3595>	\o/  Fixed the extension.  Things are working as expected now.
[23:18:21] <Simetrical>	משתמש, משתמשת, משתמשים, משתמשות . . . I think.
[23:18:26] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: sudo -u apache bash
[23:18:53] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: It doesn't want to let you log in, but you can still spawn a shell as that user.
[23:19:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Central notice field names cannot contain national characters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16320  (10brion)
[23:19:09] <werdnum>	um, sudo -u apache -s
[23:19:43] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: Might not work.
[23:19:45] <Simetrical>	Either works.
[23:19:49] <Simetrical>	Oh, right.
[23:19:52] <Simetrical>	apache might not have a shell set.
[23:19:56] <Simetrical>	Probably shouldn't.
[23:20:04] <FunnyMan3595>	werdnum: apache might have their passwd set to /bin/false or similar.
[23:20:09] <FunnyMan3595>	*passwd shell
[23:20:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Oversight gives an empty page on difflink - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16065  (10brion)
[23:20:50] <FunnyMan3595>	It's set to /sbin/nologin on this machine.
[23:21:08] <Simetrical>	Here too.
[23:21:21] <FunnyMan3595>	Probably master_'s as well, because that's the message nologin prints out.
[23:21:23] <Simetrical>	Wait, no, it's /bin/false here.
[23:21:27] <Reedy>	i suspect most will
[23:21:31] <Simetrical>	Except when it's /usr/sbin/nologin.
[23:21:31] <FunnyMan3595>	"This account is currently not available."
[23:21:34] <master_>	FunnyMan3595: I ca see the images.. but.. I think I see the problem:  /var/www/prodapps/wiki/mediawiki/files/Wiki/ctltwiki/images/thumb/b/b8/Goals_and_principles.jpg/150px-Goals_and_principles.jpg
[23:21:44] <master_>	Somehow it thinks a .jpg file is a directory
[23:21:46] <Simetrical>	Except an alarming number are /bin/sh.
[23:21:58] <Simetrical>	Why does www-data have /bin/sh as a default shell?
[23:22:03] <Simetrical>	I assume it has no password set anyway, but . . .
[23:22:13] <master_>	FunnyMan3595: also.. all the image file not found errors in the apache log are actually not the same images.. something different..
[23:22:23] <FunnyMan3595>	Simetrical: Probably because it's for uploading www data, as the name says.
[23:22:29] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44320 10/trunk/extensions/Oversight/HideRevision_body.php: * (bug 16065) Don't die when diffing first version of oversighted page
[23:22:47] <FunnyMan3595>	Simetrical: I think you're expected to sftp into it.
[23:22:54] <Simetrical>	FunnyMan3595, it's for *owning* www data, not necessarily uploading it, surely.
[23:23:13] <FunnyMan3595>	Works for both.
[23:24:32] <master_>	Wow.. this is a directory--not a .jpg file:  /var/www/prodapps/wiki/mediawiki/files/Wiki/ctltwiki/images/thumb/b/b8/Goals_and_principles.jpg
[23:24:35] <FunnyMan3595>	Just aguess, anyway.
[23:24:35] <master_>	Is that correct?
[23:25:24] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: Probably not.  I've seen that kind of thing happen in other contexts.  The app tries to move the file to its destination, but there's a directory there, so it gets dumped in the directory instead.
[23:26:11] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Oversight gives an empty page on difflink - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16065  +comment (10brion)
[23:26:44] <FunnyMan3595>	"diffink"?  Is that the Russian version?
[23:26:59] <master_>	FunnyMan3595: but I looked around and there are plenty others like this..  also, I see some different in permissions: -rwxr-Sr-t 1 4294967294 4294967294  7950 Feb 20  2006 119px-Kamiak-CTLTShare-2004-01-08.jpg 
[23:27:16] <nakon>	if a bug report has been made for something that was removed from mediawiki, should it be closed as invalid or fixed?
[23:27:16] <master_>	I don't even know what rwxr-Sr-t means... exactly
[23:27:57] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: S=Setgroup (there), t=sticky.
[23:28:45] <FunnyMan3595>	Setgroup on a directory usually means "Force all children of this directory to share its group.
[23:29:22] <FunnyMan3595>	Sticky on a directory is something like "Don't let other users delete someone's files, even though the directory is writable by them."  /tmp uses it.
[23:29:26] <brion>	nakon: invalid is probably fine :)
[23:29:31] <brion>	unless ... the *bug* was removed? ;)
[23:30:37] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Administrator percentage in Special: Statistics should round to a number of significant figures, not decimals - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5095  +comment (10nakonwiki)
[23:30:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Image redirects from the shared repo don't show " redirected from" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14117  (10Platonides)
[23:30:59] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) enable new usergroups and rights for en.wiktionary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16248  +comment (10rhalsell)
[23:31:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Image redirects from the shared repo don't show " redirected from" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14117  (10N/A)
[23:41:40] <master_>	So.. as a user, how do I upload an image?
[23:41:51] <FunnyMan3595>	Special:Upload
[23:41:57] <FunnyMan3595>	Should be linked in the toolbox at bottom left.
[23:41:58] <master_>	All I can google is how to set it up so users can do it)
[23:42:20] <FunnyMan3595>	If it's not there, you probably haven't enabled uploading.
[23:42:36] <ghee22>	Bump... i'm looking for an extension similar to Extension:Include but will automatically refresh the content.  Like a way to include dynamic external file into mediawiki
[23:43:59] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: Comfortable editing the extension slightly?
[23:44:49] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: At the beginning render_include, add this: $parser->disableCache();
[23:45:30] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: That's all it should take.
[23:45:34] <ghee22>	hmm
[23:45:56] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: Just put it right after the two global lines.
[23:45:58] <ghee22>	will that disable cache for all pages
[23:46:09] <FunnyMan3595>	Just the ones that include a file.
[23:48:07] <ghee22>	i'm trying to figure out what you mean "a file"
[23:48:33] <ghee22>	do you mean all pages that use the include extension?
[23:48:39] <FunnyMan3595>	Yes.
[23:48:49] <ghee22>	FunnyMan3595, thank you!
[23:49:08] <ghee22>	this should be on the discussion page of the extension
[23:49:23] <ghee22>	would you like me to add it on behalf of you
[23:49:29] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: Go ahead.
[23:50:12] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Please set up wiki for Wikimedia Norge - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15383  +comment (10jhsoby)
[23:52:31] <CIA-8>	03tomasz * r44321 10/trunk/extensions/CentralNotice/ (CentralNotice.sql patch-add-preferred.sql): changing false to 0 for mysql4 to be happy
[23:53:21] <ghee22>	FunnyMan3595:  you are now on here:  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Include#Included_file_doesnt_update.
[23:53:25] <ghee22>	:)
[23:55:15] <master_>	FunnyMan3595: manually re-uploading one of the images suddenly made a bunch of other disappeared ones come back..
[23:55:35] <FunnyMan3595>	ghee22: It should also be possible to create a variant of the command that disables the cache, but the quick-and-dirty method is Good Enough for most people.
[23:55:57] <ghee22>	yes, good enough for me
[23:55:58] <ghee22>	ciao
[23:55:58] <FunnyMan3595>	master_: Nice.  MW must have noticed the problem and fixed it.
[23:57:33] <FunnyMan3595>	Incidentally, the Include from Wikipedia question should be pretty easy (there's a command used on the .css pages to get raw text), but it's probably not polite.