[00:00:03] <brion>	testing
[00:00:21] <Charitwo>	.
[00:00:27] <brion>	woo looking good
[00:00:41] <brion>				($haschanges, $user) = (1, $1) if $contents =~ /<(\S+)\@\S+> changed:$/m;
[00:00:45] <brion>	gonna have the same problem there
[00:01:15] <Vyznev>	hmm... oh, right, no <> :(
[00:01:20] *werdnum 	has to say goodbye to his sister for a year today, is leaving for the airport in half an hour or so.
[00:01:39] <Charitwo>	where you going?
[00:01:46] <werdnum>	nowhere, my sister's going to France.
[00:02:02] <werdnum>	and I'll be off harassing Brion in SF by the time she gets back.
[00:02:21] <atglenn>	oh, when are you due here again?
[00:02:28] <werdnum>	12th January.
[00:02:34] *atglenn 	makes a note
[00:02:51] <brion>	whee
[00:03:20] <CIA-8>	03vyznev * r44482 10/trunk/tools/wikibugs/wikibugs: support nameless users in this other regexp too
[00:03:25] <brion>	w00t
[00:03:43] <Vyznev>	...wait :(
[00:04:07] *werdnum 	has to start thinking about opening bank accounts and such, now.
[00:04:10] <CIA-8>	03vyznev * r44483 10/trunk/tools/wikibugs/wikibugs: ?:
[00:04:11] <brion>	:(
[00:04:25] <Vyznev>	_now_ it should work :/
[00:04:40] <brion>	rockin'
[00:04:42] <brion>	looks good dude
[00:04:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Rename the "Image" namespace to "File" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44  (10N/A)
[00:06:15] <Vyznev>	actually, it looks like kluge piled upon ugly kluge... should really rewrite the whole thing from ground up
[00:06:19] <Vyznev>	but that's for later
[00:06:27] <Vyznev>	least it works now
[00:06:33] <brion>	:D
[00:06:35] <brion>	thanks!
[00:07:25] <brion>	hmm, we could probably make it ignore CC changes too ;)
[00:07:41] <werdnum>	yeah, maybe we should do that on the regular bug mail too :)
[00:08:03] <Vyznev>	that's be nice, yes
[00:08:37] <Vyznev>	and the username reporting is kind of silly anyway: it reports my comments as being from "nospam" :)
[00:09:07] <Vyznev>	presumably what it should _really_ report would be the part _before_ the email address
[00:09:18] <Vyznev>	if any
[00:09:19] <CIA-8>	03demon * r44484 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesHu.php: Fix broken NS aliases.
[00:09:27] <^demon>	brion: Can you scap r44484, it's a bug on the live sites.
[00:09:41] <brion>	describe it briefly?
[00:09:52] <^demon>	Namespace aliases for Image -> File broken in their language.
[00:10:08] <^demon>	$namespaceAliases was declared twice, overwriting the original values.
[00:10:31] <brion>	does that fix "On huwiki it seems the redirect from Kép (Image) to Fájl (File) is not" complaint?
[00:10:33] <brion>	*working
[00:10:48] <^demon>	Yes
[00:10:50] <Vyznev>	looks like it should, yes
[00:11:05] <brion>	super
[00:15:03] <Vyznev>	looks like ast and ms might have the same issue :(
[00:16:13] <CIA-8>	03vyznev * r44485 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (MessagesAst.php MessagesMs.php): more NS alias breakage
[00:18:03] <Vyznev>	seems it was r43687 that broke them
[00:20:16] <Vyznev>	brion: wanna do another scap, for the Malay and Asturian speakers' sake?
[00:23:38] <sprax_>	Speaking of namespaces
[00:23:54] <sprax_>	Is there a way to prevent users who are not in a certain group from even being able to view a namespace?
[00:24:05] <Simetrical>	!lockdown | sprax_ 
[00:24:05] --mwbot--	sprax_: Lockdown is an extension for preventing read or write access by namespace and limiting access to special pages. For more information, see < http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown >. For general information on preventing access to your wiki, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access >.
[00:24:07] <sprax_>	I'm looking at the manual for custom namespaces now and it seems that only edits can be controled
[00:24:11] <sprax_>	lol
[00:24:14] <sprax_>	thanks Simetrical
[00:27:02] <brion>	ok where was i
[00:27:55] <werdnum>	holy crap, my sister gave me the best christmas present ever.
[00:28:01] <werdnum>	"I can has cheezburger", the book.
[00:28:18] *brion 	almost choked on an apple
[00:28:35] <werdnum>	Why did you do that?
[00:28:38] <werdnum>	a very silly thing to do.
[00:28:56] <Reedy>	its not as silly as choking on one
[00:29:56] <^demon>	Reedy: I suppose there's worse things you could do to an apple.
[00:29:59] <brion>	Vyznev: thx, applying updates...
[00:30:23] <Vyznev>	okay, you'll probably have to do that soon enough again... undo is broken :(
[00:30:29] <Reedy>	^demon, true
[00:30:29] <Vyznev>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#.22Undo.22_button_acting_weird
[00:30:30] <brion>	:D :(
[00:30:50] <brion>	"weird" is always a good description 
[00:30:56] <Simetrical>	Better one in the actual post.
[00:31:02] <Simetrical>	I'd say "disastrous" is more apt here, though.
[00:31:15] <brion>	heh
[00:32:49] <brion>	give a shout when the fix is ready...
[00:33:23] <Vyznev>	someone needs to find the cause first
[00:33:37] <brion>	d'oh
[00:33:37] <Vyznev>	what rev did we upgrade from, anyway?
[00:33:49] <brion>	lemme pull it up
[00:34:14] <brion>	bah
[00:34:19] <brion>	that would have been nice to have written down ;)
[00:34:42] <brion>	r43634 i think
[00:35:31] <werdnum>	teehee, there was a lolcat with the following:
[00:35:39] <werdnum>	A cat eating a bird, with the caption "nom de plume"
[00:36:01] <brion>	:DDDD
[00:38:11] <brion>	how do you replicate it?
[00:39:30] <werdnum>	Has anything touched that part of the code since the last update?
[00:40:19] <werdnum>	brion: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=257388903&oldid=257387044
[00:40:21] <brion>	ok, it's just a preview bug
[00:40:22] <werdnum>	click (undo)
[00:40:46] <brion>	there have been some changes to some section stuff iirc
[00:42:22] *werdnum 	has to head to the airport in a few.
[00:42:42] <brion>	no relevant changes to editpage i can see
[00:44:11] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) FlaggedRevs blocks/disables Patroller Extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16375  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[00:45:03] <werdnum>	ok I'll be back later.
[00:47:02] <MrZ-man>	brion: possibly related, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Cydebot_appears_to_be_malfunctioning and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=257389118
[00:48:42] <Simetrical>	Hmm, interesting: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081209-safer-than-activex-a-look-at-googles-native-client-plugin.html
[00:50:29] <brion>	ok i think it's in section replacement
[00:52:38] <brion>	ok, now confirming that the fix back doesn't break anything else
[00:56:12] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44486 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: 
[00:56:12] <CIA-8>	Fix regression from r44015 "Various minor cleanup/spacing"
[00:56:12] <CIA-8>	Damaged some section editing, or at least display of undo, by causing null section parameters in section replacement to be treated as section 0.
[00:57:08] <Vyznev>	those are always the scariest commit summaries
[00:58:54] <brion>	:)
[01:03:18] <Vyznev>	that condition should probably be clarified, anyway, or someone's just going to "fix" it again
[01:03:40] <Vyznev>	what's the recommended way to test for "true or zero" in PHP, anyway?
[01:04:50] <MrZ-man>	if ($var || $var === 0) ?
[01:05:05] <Vyznev>	does that also match the string "0"?
[01:05:19] <MrZ-man>	probably not
[01:06:05] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44487 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: 
[01:06:05] <CIA-8>	Clarify the $section parameter a bit on Article::replaceSection() to indicate acceptable input values.
[01:06:05] <CIA-8>	Throw in a strval() around the param on compare so if somebody thinks "hey I'll make it a === because it's 5ns faster" again it won't break anything. :)
[01:21:30] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44488 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (18 files in 10 dirs): 
[01:21:32] <CIA-8>	some basic fixes
[01:21:33] <CIA-8>	improved stubs for remote media search
[01:24:22] <brion>	ok i'm heading home dudes
[01:31:46] <Prodego>	what in mediawiki does or doesn't support IPv6
[01:59:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "diff to last sighted version" to recent changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16489  +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[02:35:23] <alex_21>	Hi, I want to get rid of the tools in the MonoBook Template. How do I do this. My skin is based on the Monobook template
[02:35:25] <alex_21>	?
[02:37:41] <Splarka>	the edit tools or the toolbox?
[02:39:17] <alex_21>	Toolbox, as well as the privacy policy and those kinds of links. Basically I just want "Search" and the edit this page and the "How many times has this page been accessed stuff"
[02:40:03] <alex_21>	Oh, and I want the categories listing to be there
[02:40:12] <Splarka>	ahh, dunno then, but you might look in Skin.php and SkinTemplate.php for the things that create that stuff (though you might not wanna edit it there, but in your copied skin)
[02:41:18] <buzz_>	i rejigged the homepage design on my wiki. what do you think http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Main_Page ?
[02:41:45] <alex_21>	Oh, I was actually just after line numbers for those files, since My Terminal crashes when I use the up arrow
[02:41:57] <alex_21>	So I don't know what it says
[02:42:40] <Skizzerz>	buzz_: you should move IE-specific css (such as filter, etc.) into an IE*fixes file instead of the skin's main css, it's throwing a few errors on firefox
[02:43:14] <buzz_>	Skizzerz, you browse with error console open? :)
[02:43:35] <buzz_>	you are right though. ideally id just like to delete the ie6 crap
[02:43:49] <alex_21>	No offence, but it isn't accessible at all to screen readers, a BIG problem
[02:44:03] <Skizzerz>	nah, but I use the web developer extension thingie, which means there's a nice red exclamation point in the toolbar
[02:44:30] <buzz_>	oh
[02:44:31] <Simetrical>	alex_21, why isn't it accessible to screen readers?
[02:44:33] <alex_21>	Oh, that is called Firebug I think
[02:44:40] <Skizzerz>	no, that's a different extension
[02:44:41] <Skizzerz>	:)
[02:44:43] *Skizzerz 	has both
[02:44:56] <Skizzerz>	buzz_: other than that, I really like the layout
[02:45:15] <Simetrical>	alex_21, if you have specific accessibility problems with MW, bug reports would be appreciated.  https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/  Especially if you include patches.
[02:45:16] <buzz_>	Skizzerz, thanks. well ill consider putting the ie6 fixes back in.
[02:45:24] <buzz_>	i mean. in a separate file
[02:45:29] <alex_21>	The pull downs aren't vissible to screen readers. YOu may want to have a text only version instead of all this fancy stuff. Check out http://www.vipbc.org to see how we do it
[02:46:15] <buzz_>	alex_21, you are referring to my design ? or something else ?
[02:46:38] <alex_21>	Toolbox, as well as the privacy policy and those kinds of links. Basically I just want "Search" and the edit this page and the "How many times has this page been accessed stuff" and the categoriy that the page belongs to.
[02:47:37] <buzz_>	Skizzerz, the mouse pointer is from around 1985 .. it really annoys some people, but it has to be :D
[02:47:39] <alex_21>	buzz_: Maybe it is the MW problem, but the hover menus don't work, sorry
[02:47:52] <buzz_>	alex_21, turn off the css :)
[02:48:09] <Skizzerz>	meh, I don't find a change in the mouse pointer to be that big of a deal
[02:48:17] <Skizzerz>	forced background music, on the other hand...
[02:48:32] <buzz_>	Skizzerz, oh yeh. one of my hates too. but a must have if you hsot on geocities etc
[02:48:32] <buzz_>	;-)
[02:49:19] <buzz_>	alex_21, what browser are you using ?
[02:49:36] <Skizzerz>	one thing that confused me is that I thought that the two image-type thingies on the left of every divider bar were clickable :)
[02:49:50] <buzz_>	they should be.. but im lazy.. 
[02:50:02] <alex_21>	Also, the mouse pointer is hard to use for VIPs, Visually Impaired Persons, Smiley. and the adverage end user won't know how to disable CSS, nor want to because in many cases it is the saving grace of the web
[02:50:08] <buzz_>	well. i mean, they should look like you can click them, but not do anything or something
[02:50:31] <Simetrical>	alex_21, why isn't the toolbox visible to screen readers?
[02:50:54] <Simetrical>	alex_21, I get http://www.vipbc.org/windows-error.html despite the fact that I'm on Linux . . .
[02:51:25] <alex_21>	Oh buzz_'s wiki, I have no idea. It doesn't look accessible to me, at least, if it is, It isn't obvious. And I am using Safari, ... Smiley
[02:51:48] <Skizzerz>	"At this time, ICE only supports Mac and Linux due to budgeting. " <- what kind of bullshit is that? OS has nothing to do with what browsers people use
[02:51:58] <alex_21>	Oops, I keep forgetting to fix that bug
[02:52:40] <alex_21>	And we can't claim responsibility that our site will work with Windows Screen readers as well
[02:53:00] <alex_21>	Please tone down on the language
[02:53:19] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44489 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.php: Add missing global declaration
[02:53:45] <Skizzerz>	just because you can't claim that it will work with Windows screen readers doesn't mean you have to force everyone that uses windows to go through an extra click to see your content
[02:54:15] <alex_21>	My content is specifically developed for screen readers, smiley
[02:54:36] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) FlaggedRevs blocks/disables Patroller Extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16375  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[02:54:47] <alex_21>	It isn't much for people with full sight, lol
[02:55:01] <Skizzerz>	hmm... you DO have a point there :)
[02:55:08] <mvatki>	Hello, I recently upgraded from mw 1.11 to mw 1.13 on a Windows IIS server with PHP 5.2.1 and MySQL 5.0.41. I don't have shell access, so I upgraded by re-running the install script. So far everything seems to work fine except for when I try to import pages from wikipedia's export tool.
[02:55:26] <mvatki>	 When I set $wgShowExceptionDetails to true in LocalSettings.php, I get an error that begins with "Error in fetchObject(): Illegal mix of collations for operation ' IN ' (mysql400.ixwebhosting.com)." The rest is a backtrace. What can I do to fix this?
[02:56:00] <alex_21>	I just pointed you to it so you can see how Screen readers, at least on the Mac need things to be. Don't even get me started on Winows fussyness, because SRs under Windows are fussy
[02:56:03] <mvatki>	Has anyone seen this before?
[02:56:59] <Simetrical>	alex_21, when you type "smiley", do you mean for an actual smiley to appear?  Like a colon followed by a parenthesis?  I guess it sounds the same on a screen reader, but it looks kind of odd to sighted people.
[02:57:25] <Skizzerz>	alex_21: What does Microsoft make that ISN'T fussy? :)
[02:58:13] <Simetrical>	Does MS make all Windows screen readers . . . ?
[02:58:17] <Skizzerz>	idk
[02:58:33] <alex_21>	Nothing, that is why I personally hate Windows, and yes, Windows sucks for SRs too, I mean paying %1000 every 18 months for something that works just as good under Linux and way better on the Mac for free is stupid in my oppinion
[02:58:42] <Skizzerz>	I'm pretty sure the one that ships with windows (if there is one) is made by ms
[02:58:55] <buzz_>	ive used a bunch of accessibility tools at the council, and they all looked/felt like they were windows 1.0 applications running on xp.
[02:59:25] <buzz_>	some reader called "jaws" was one
[02:59:45] <alex_21>	JAWS or JFW is made by Freedom Scientific and sucks
[02:59:54] <buzz_>	thats the impression i got
[03:00:03] <alex_21>	No, Windows doesn't even have a built in one, like all other OSs do
[03:00:15] <buzz_>	JAWS Professional: $1,095
[03:00:15] <buzz_>	(Windows Vista, Windows XP, or Windows Media Center)
[03:00:17] <buzz_>	HOW MUCH ?!
[03:00:47] <alex_21>	How much what? The price is what you said
[03:01:01] <buzz_>	i was making an exclamation in horror
[03:01:01] <Skizzerz>	XP has a built in "Narrator" that apparantly is able to read text out loud
[03:01:08] <Simetrical>	buzz_, I guess if people feel it's JAWS or not using computers, they're willing to pay lots.
[03:01:38] <alex_21>	Minus $100 or $2000 for the Home/Standard. Anyway I use Apple's built-in Voiceover and it works like a charm
[03:02:22] <buzz_>	Simetrical, some company i know sold the council some "bins collection" software. it was basically some simple calendar with web admin panel backend.. but they put the word enterprise on it, and sold it as a software package (rather than a custom web script) for like thousands
[03:02:22] <alex_21>	Narrators voice Sam sucks and It can't read anything at all really
[03:02:27] <buzz_>	could have coded it up in a few hours
[03:02:37] <alex_21>	I mean, it is like soething out of an antique shop
[03:02:44] <alex_21>	No Internet access for one thing
[03:02:52] <Simetrical>	alex_21, Linux screen reading is better than Windows, though?  I got the opposite impression.
[03:03:34] <Simetrical>	(having never used a screen reader in my life)
[03:03:57] <buzz_>	in 1985 everyone went crazy over the mac and its narrator, and the stage demo. but really it wasnt even close to the capabilities of the amiga 1000 released the same year, with less hype
[03:05:10] <alex_21>	Linux's voice isn't as human sounding as JAWS, but Jaws is like a robot compared to Voicover (Voiceover is Apple's built-in screen reader). Actually Linux speech is developed to be light weight and listenable for long periods of time
[03:06:11] <mvatki>	I had never given much thought to the issue of proprietary accessibility software holding people hostage in this way... How do they quantify a voice's listenability?
[03:06:18] <buzz_>	there was a scottish company who developed the best sounding voices i had heard. i wanted to purchase their software but they got bought out by a larger tts company (nuance) who wouldnt sell me a license as they wanted to integrate it into their inferior tts software
[03:06:44] <buzz_>	actually. they would sell me a license. they wanted 30,000 euros for a one server license.
[03:06:47] <buzz_>	pff
[03:07:39] <alex_21>	Apple's is the best for usability and listenability. It actually LETS users use a computer in the same manner that sighted do. The Win/Linux developers seem to think that "Let's take every thing that sighted people have to do and take it out because blind people are too stupid to understand it.". That is seriously the mentality of the win/lin developers
[03:08:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Mark edits in Special:Recentchanges with (top), as in Special: Contributions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8482  +comment (10dennis.biel)
[03:08:12] <Simetrical>	alex_21, I'm not surprised that Mac is best.  Apple is really good at this kind of thing.
[03:08:19] <buzz_>	well im not sure thats true. i mean gnome takes out all stuff for all users and treats us all stupid
[03:08:20] <buzz_>	:-)
[03:08:21] <Simetrical>	I'm optimistic that Linux will improve, though.
[03:09:12] <buzz_>	3am hotdog time.
[03:09:24] *buzz_ 	goes to eat
[03:09:43] <alex_21>	They have a monopoly and quality of listenability is determined by how long the general public can listen to some speech for without getting tired of it. It isn't measured bu any particular group, just by the people who use it
[03:11:13] <alex_21>	And Apple just released the Lrge print/Talking IPods a few months. Or rather, they took the mainstream Nano, and shipped every Nano now with TTS capability
[03:11:31] <alex_21>	Large Print, sorry
[03:12:19] <alex_21>	About the smiley, I just mean the word smiley, so that you can see it in your minds eye. Screen readers read literally "colon, right parenthesis" when you do that
[03:13:04] <buzz_>	they dont have "irc mode" ?
[03:13:16] <buzz_>	I.R.C mode
[03:13:20] <alex_21>	No, they don't, or MSN mode
[03:13:32] <buzz_>	and they want $1000+ for their sh*te
[03:13:38] <buzz_>	criminal
[03:13:46] <buzz_>	im in the wrong business!
[03:14:28] <alex_21>	The best I've seen is Apple's IChat, which describes the list of Emoticons you can send. It does not however describe the ones you receive. It just reads out the list of the ones you can choose from, and after you send It it wont read it anymore
[03:14:49] <Simetrical>	Seems like a fixable omission.
[03:15:28] <alex_21>	Which is fixable?
[03:15:29] <Simetrical>	Not pronouncing smilies.
[03:15:29] <alex_21>	And what buisness should you be in then?
[03:15:30] <alex_21>	Wait, I'll be right back
[03:15:53] <buzz_>	"smiley with top had glasses and strange suprised look"
[03:15:53] <buzz_>	oops i meant hat
[03:16:08] <buzz_>	making screenreader software that isnt shit.
[03:16:14] <buzz_>	:)
[03:16:32] <buzz_>	and charging a fair price for it
[03:16:37] <Splarka>	"How do they quantify a voice's listenability?"... Tom Baker has been digitized, but I believe he only licensed his voice to BT for a few months. I am sure they're keeping a copy for future use just in case
[03:16:48] <Splarka>	they should do Morgan Freeman too
[03:17:52] <buzz_>	forget about those. what abotu "Brian Blessed!!"
[03:17:56] <alex_21>	Usability is determined by how long the majority of the public can listen to a voice. It isn't official, just ranked by the users in private chats and the like
[03:18:11] <buzz_>	"GORDONS ALIVE" every few paragraphs
[03:18:32] <alex_21>	I fixed the smiley problem
[03:19:34] <alex_21>	What Buisness should you be in Buzz_
[03:19:34] <buzz_>	you fixed the :) problem ?
[03:19:34] <alex_21>	?
[03:19:34] <buzz_>	alex_21, screenreader software..
[03:19:35] <alex_21>	Yeah, join the club
[03:19:35] <alex_21>	That is what I do for a job you know
[03:19:42] <alex_21>	And do you know C++?
[03:27:22] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44490 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/specialpages/RatingHistory_body.php: Fix typo
[03:28:52] <WatkeC>	I hate to interrupt but we just installed the latest version and are having a problem with Importing XML dump.  This problem:  Error in fetchObject(): Illegal mix of collations for operation ' IN ' (mysql400.ixwebhosting.com).  There is a backtrace.  Anyone knowledgeable about this problem?
[03:29:55] <WatkeC>	Hello, anyone there?
[03:30:11] <alex_21>	Hey, I fixed the Windows error so that it only works on Windows not Linux
[03:30:25] <alex_21>	I don't know, sorry
[03:30:26] <Vyznev>	WatkeC: where exactly does that happen?
[03:30:46] <WatkeC>	This occurs on the Special:Import page
[03:30:47] <Vyznev>	unfortunately, grepping for "fetchObject" is not very useful
[03:31:11] <alex_21>	On my site at http://www.vipbcorg/ I was talking to some people here about the site and accessibilityy and they pointed it out
[03:31:11] <WatkeC>	I'll dump the complete backtrace on the site
[03:32:20] <alex_21>	Sounds good
[03:33:36] <mvatki>	Here is watkeC's error backtrace: http://rafb.net/p/LyHdC129.html
[03:33:58] <WatkeC>	Vyznev, does that help?
[03:44:24] <Vyznev>	let me take a look at it...
[03:46:29] <Vyznev>	ok, I can't help much, but I'd suggest looking into the collation your DB has for the page_title field in the page table
[03:46:40] <Vyznev>	that's what it seems to be failing against
[03:48:03] <WatkeC>	Thanks Vyznev for the help.
[03:48:14] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44491 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
[03:48:14] <CIA-8>	* Allow partial reviews
[03:48:14] <CIA-8>	* Remove 'overall' aggregate (some issues with it)
[03:48:51] <Vyznev>	WatkeC: also, you don't have $wgDBmysql5 set by any chance?
[03:49:11] <mvatki>	Vyznev: probably not, I can check
[03:50:34] <mvatki>	yes, it is set to true
[03:51:08] <Vyznev>	try setting it to false, see if that helps
[03:51:14] <mvatki>	alright
[03:52:23] <Vyznev>	(see also: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDBmysql5)
[03:52:41] <mvatki>	ok, I am retrying the import page
[03:54:22] <mvatki>	I clicked upload file button but I think that it maybe timed out because after about 40 seconds since a completely blank page was returned.
[03:55:58] <Vyznev>	hmm... :(
[03:56:19] <Vyznev>	let's see if the bot knows more about this than I do
[03:56:27] <Vyznev>	!import | mvatki 
[03:56:27] --mwbot--	mvatki: To import pages a few pages, use Special:Import - you can also import pages directly from another wiki (see !importsources). For mass imports, use importDump.php - see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps> for details. NOTE: when using content from another wiki, follow the LICENSE TERMS, especially, attribute source and authors!
[03:58:00] <mvatki>	!importsources | mvatki
[03:58:00] --mwbot--	mvatki: For information on configuring interwiki page imports, please refer to <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgImportSources>
[03:59:10] <Vyznev>	I just read the linked page, and it seems you may want to use importDump.php
[03:59:43] <mvatki>	$wgDBTableOptions   = "ENGINE=InnoDB, DEFAULT CHARSET=binary";
[04:00:31] <Vyznev>	hmm, yes, that could also cause issues
[04:02:24] <Vyznev>	I'm not really very familiar with the encoding stuff, other than to know that they can be a headache
[04:04:00] <mvatki>	ok. what can I do to track down the problem?
[04:04:02] <Vyznev>	anyway, if those settings were set up by the installer and they don't work, you might want to file a bug report at bugzilla.wikimedia.org
[04:05:12] <mvatki>	ok
[04:06:01] <Vyznev>	if it's not too much trouble, you could just try dropping the tables and reinstalling with the "MySQL 5" option turned off
[04:06:17] <Vyznev>	of course, it _should_ work either way, but...
[04:06:44] <mvatki>	when I go to phpmyadmin I see that "MySQL connection collation: utf8_unicode_ci" is displayed
[04:08:10] <Vyznev>	unfortunately, I'm fairly clueless there
[04:08:20] <Vyznev>	I think I've used phpmyadmin once in my life
[04:08:49] <mvatki>	I might could try dropping the tables and doing a fresh install. Thanks for your help.
[04:09:06] <mvatki>	Is there someone who I could talk to who could easily shed light on the problem?
[04:09:59] <Vyznev>	you could try asking again later, people who know more about this do hang around here from time to time
[04:10:11] <Vyznev>	or try the mailing lists
[04:10:33] <Vyznev>	or http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk
[04:11:07] <Vyznev>	but mediawiki-l might be your best bet
[04:11:09] <Vyznev>	https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
[04:12:03] <mvatki>	alright, thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
[04:12:26] <Vyznev>	hope you'll get it working :)
[04:12:47] <Vyznev>	g'nite :)
[04:13:12] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Unprotecting a non-protected page leaves a log entry - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12716  +comment (10rjd0060.wiki)
[04:19:54] <sprax_>	I'm trying to setup the MW permissions so that a group of registered users can create and edit talk pages but not main pages
[04:20:21] <sprax_>	I set createtalk = 'true' but I think 'edit'=false overrides it
[04:20:39] <Splarka>	that only applies to creation
[04:21:18] <sprax_>	I got permission denied on a talk redlink but you're right, if it exists, then edit will apply and my scheme wont work
[04:21:33] <sprax_>	so should I use lockdown to try and control the namespace?
[04:22:00] <sprax_>	or is there some other way?
[04:22:46] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgNamespaceProtection
[04:23:41] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44492 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialSearch.php: Tweak JS focusing
[04:23:57] <sprax_>	I was looking at that too
[04:24:10] <Splarka>	how is it not what you want?
[04:24:12] <sprax_>	and at the Using other namespaces
[04:24:20] <sprax_>	I'm just confused by it
[04:24:23] <sprax_>	more reading required
[04:25:11] <Splarka>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_MAIN] = array( 'editmain' );
[04:25:38] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['maineditor']['editmain']    = true;
[04:25:44] <Splarka>	is probably what you need, or such
[04:26:05] <Splarka>	you create a right needed to edit a namespace, then create a group with that right
[04:26:17] <sprax_>	where is NS_MAIN come from?
[04:26:20] <sprax_>	thats the part I don't get
[04:26:27] <sprax_>	Is there a list somewhere
[04:26:32] <sprax_>	for all the built in namespaces?
[04:26:50] <sprax_>	the example talks about NS_FOO
[04:26:58] <sprax_>	but I dont know how to relate it to the existing namespaces
[04:29:07] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/Namespace.php?view=co&content-type=text%2Fplain
[04:29:44] <sprax_>	outstanding
[04:29:46] <sprax_>	thanks much!
[04:29:53] *sprax_ 	was in the process of googling NS_MAIN
[04:30:05] <sprax_>	wife just got home
[04:30:08] <sprax_>	so I just got busy
[04:30:52] <Splarka>	"got busy" ... bow chicka wow wow
[04:32:08] <sprax_>	lol
[04:32:13] <sprax_>	more like cleaning and making tea
[04:32:43] <Splarka>	bow chicka whipped!
[04:32:47] *Splarka 	hides
[04:34:26] <sprax_>	lmfao
[04:34:28] <sprax_>	thanks dude
[04:34:32] <sprax_>	(dudette?)
[04:35:31] <Splarka>	for sex I wrote "yes please"
[04:36:57] <sprax_>	I wrote "at least 3 times a day"
[04:38:34] <sprax_>	ok so I did this:
[04:38:34] <sprax_>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_TALK] = array( 'edittalk' );
[04:38:34] <sprax_>	$wgGroupPermissions['ismanager' ]['edittalk']            = true;
[04:38:44] <sprax_>	but still a user in "ismanager" can't edit a talk page
[04:39:19] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['edit']            = true;
[04:39:23] <Splarka>	you need that too
[04:39:34] <sprax_>	so I should give them global edit
[04:39:38] <sprax_>	and take it away from NS_MAIN
[04:39:38] <sprax_>	?
[04:39:44] <Splarka>	no...
[04:39:48] <Splarka>	you leave edit as is
[04:40:02] <Splarka>	and then protect the namespaces you want to
[04:40:31] <sprax_>	ok
[04:40:38] <Splarka>	wgNamespaceProtection defines namespaces and edit rights required to edit them
[04:40:52] <Splarka>	it doesn't magically unprotect them or give them easier access
[04:41:08] <Splarka>	so if no one can edit on your wiki, no one can edit the namespaces they may be allowed to with wgNamespaceProtection
[04:41:20] <Splarka>	at least, that's how I read it
[04:42:00] <Splarka>	so what you'll probably have to do...
[04:42:14] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['god']['editmain']    = true;
[04:42:23] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['angels']['edittalk']    = true;
[04:42:30] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['*']['edit']    = true;
[04:42:36] <Splarka>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_TALK] = array( 'edittalk' );
[04:42:43] <Splarka>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_MAIN] = array( 'editmain' );
[04:42:51] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['god']['edittalk']    = true;
[04:42:57] <sprax_>	gotcha
[04:43:02] <sprax_>	angles false
[04:43:10] <Splarka>	well, no falseness
[04:43:17] <sprax_>	just no mention?
[04:43:27] <Splarka>	you should only need to false defaults of which none apply here
[04:43:39] <Splarka>	also, there are many other namespaces
[04:43:45] <Splarka>	these just cover namespaces 0 and 1
[04:43:58] <Splarka>	User: User_talk: etc
[04:44:02] <Splarka>	are 2 and up
[04:44:05] <sprax_>	thats all fine
[04:44:08] <sprax_>	its just 0 I need to lock down
[04:44:15] <sprax_>	I'm using it to power our intranet
[04:44:23] <Splarka>	oh
[04:44:26] <sprax_>	and I dont want regular users to be able to edit main content
[04:44:32] <sprax_>	only talk pages
[04:44:34] <Splarka>	then you don't need a 'talk' group at all
[04:44:40] <sprax_>	just main
[04:45:04] <Splarka>	you want anyone (with acess) to be able to edit templates, images, help, categories, user pages?
[04:45:10] <Splarka>	^access
[04:45:20] <sprax_>	sure, thats fine
[04:45:30] <sprax_>	I'll apply locks on the templates
[04:45:37] <sprax_>	everything can fly in the wind
[04:45:44] <sprax_>	there are just too many main pages to lock manually
[04:45:47] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['god']['editcontent']    = true;
[04:45:48] <Splarka>	$wgGroupPermissions['*']['edit']    = true;
[04:46:02] <Splarka>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_MAIN] = array( 'editcontent' );
[04:46:06] <Splarka>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_TEMPLATE] = array( 'editcontent' );
[04:46:07] <Splarka>	prolly
[04:46:14] <Splarka>	dunno
[04:46:16] <Splarka>	bbiab
[04:46:19] <sprax_>	I'll mess with it
[04:46:25] <sprax_>	now that I know the name spaces
[04:46:28] <sprax_>	thanks for all your help
[04:50:07] <sprax_>	this worked perfectly:
[04:50:07] <sprax_>	$wgNamespaceProtection[NS_MAIN] = array( 'editmain' );
[04:50:08] <sprax_>	$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['editmain']		= false;
[04:50:08] <sprax_>	$wgGroupPermissions['assistant' ]['editmain']   = false;
[04:50:08] <sprax_>	$wgGroupPermissions['sysop' ]['editmain']       = true;
[04:50:08] <sprax_>	$wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['edit']            = true;
[04:50:31] <sprax_>	only sysops can edit main now
[04:50:35] <sprax_>	but my users can still do talk
[04:55:24] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44493 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: (bug 12716) Unprotecting a non-protected page leaves a log entry
[04:55:25] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Unprotecting a non-protected page leaves a log entry - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12716  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[04:57:39] <MZMcBride>	AaronSchulz: Thanks for fixing that. :-)
[05:17:28] *werdnum 	back.
[05:17:54] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: what's up?
[05:18:04] <AaronSchulz>	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv5iKVeUWXs&feature=related
[05:19:07] <werdnum>	01:31 < Prodego> what in mediawiki does or doesn't support IPv6
[05:19:15] <werdnum>	MediaWiki is IPv6 compatible.
[05:19:53] <werdnum>	How does one get the raw InitialiseSettings/CommonSettings.js?
[05:20:31] <werdnum>	also, .php
[05:24:59] <yksinaisyyteni>	i'm not sure ipv6 blocking has been extensively tested, and the first version was extremely weird
[05:25:07] <yksinaisyyteni>	i think someone cleaned it up a bit though
[05:26:05] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: Is highlight.php (http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php) on SVN?
[05:26:19] <werdnum>	I'm trying to figure out how to get the raw files, so I can write patches against them.
[05:26:23] <yksinaisyyteni>	no idea
[05:28:06] <werdnum>	andrew@gcentral_router:~/wm-svn-working$ find . -name 'highlight.php'
[05:28:06] <werdnum>	andrew@gcentral_router:~/wm-svn-working$
[05:28:08] <werdnum>	damn.
[05:29:16] <MZMcBride>	highlight.php inserts a lot of non-breaking spaces into the output, I believe.
[05:29:29] <werdnum>	I just want the raw files.
[05:30:17] <yksinaisyyteni>	the files change so often that patches would probably be less useful anyway
[05:30:34] <yksinaisyyteni>	plus we don't want people submitting bugs that just say 'please apply this diff' without any explaination
[05:31:32] <werdnum>	It's not a setting change - it's for the Configure extension.
[05:32:29] <werdnum>	I need to move a bunch of stuff around.
[05:32:37] <werdnum>	(into a new hook in Setup.php)
[06:00:35] <davidmccabe>	!seen brion
[06:00:35] --mwbot--	try /nickserv info <user>
[06:02:00] <str4nd>	/msg nickserv info brion
[06:04:11] <werdnum>	davidmccabe: sec
[06:05:15] <werdnum>	01:24 < brion> ok i'm heading home dudes
[06:05:16] <werdnum>	For comparison\
[06:05:16] <werdnum>	06:00 < davidmccabe> !seen brion
[06:09:52] <davidmccabe>	Thank you werdnum.
[06:11:42] <Splarka>	hmm
[06:12:10] <Splarka>	!seen brion
[06:12:10] --mwbot--	try /nickserv info <user>
[06:12:21] <Splarka>	haha, spammy, 3 bots respond
[06:12:30] *Splarka 	puts !seen on mwbot's ignore
[06:29:39] <werdnum>	hey tomaszf 
[06:29:50] <tomaszf>	heya, hows the day?
[06:30:12] <werdnum>	I'm not too bad.
[06:32:46] *tomaszf 	goes to see how the new notices are doing
[06:33:04] <werdnum>	Yeah, I noticed those, look good.
[06:33:10] <werdnum>	tomaszf: I sent you a massage, too :)
[06:33:26] <tomaszf>	a massage ? .. your too kind ;)
[06:52:10] <Kodos2>	I want to set up a mediawiki site locally for private use. Does anyone know of any easy to accomplish that?
[06:52:27] <str4nd>	Okay, werdnum answered already.
[06:53:01] <str4nd>	08:50:58 « werdnum» Kodos2: yeah, download MediaWiki and follow the instructions.
[06:53:17] <werdnum>	It's not too hard
[06:53:22] <werdnum>	!install
[06:53:22] --mwbot--	Installing MediaWiki takes between 10 and 30 minutes, and involves uploading/copying files and running the installer script to configure the software. Full instructions can be found in the INSTALL file supplied in the distribution archive. An installation manual can also be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation>. See also: !download
[06:53:30] <werdnum>	Follow those instructions.
[06:54:43] <Kodos2>	how would I install a hebrew version of wikimedia ?
[06:54:51] <Kodos2>	* mediawiki
[06:55:57] <Kodos2>	?
[06:56:46] <Splarka>	$wgLanguageCode = 'he';
[06:57:13] <werdnum>	he's gone.
[06:58:10] <Splarka>	str4nd will quote me on his next visit
[06:59:55] <MZMcBride>	Heh.
[07:00:06] <Kodos2>	how do I install a hebrew version of mediawiki locally ?
[07:00:13] <Splarka>	paging str4nd
[07:00:16] <MZMcBride>	!install | Kodos2 
[07:00:16] --mwbot--	Kodos2: Installing MediaWiki takes between 10 and 30 minutes, and involves uploading/copying files and running the installer script to configure the software. Full instructions can be found in the INSTALL file supplied in the distribution archive. An installation manual can also be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation>. See also: !download
[07:00:20] <MZMcBride>	And...
[07:00:32] <Splarka>	you work at Kinkos now MZM?
[07:00:35] <MZMcBride>	<Splarka> $wgLanguageCode = 'he';
[07:00:40] <Splarka>	...yep
[07:00:45] <Splarka>	can I get that in 8x10 glossy?
[07:00:46] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: FedEx Kinkos now.
[07:01:14] <Splarka>	werdna: copywned
[07:15:59] <_wooz>	lo
[07:23:25] <yksinaisyyteni>	hmm, i think i use too many prepositions when i write
[07:24:00] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: you were supposed to fill that sentence with prepositions, to humorously prove your point.
[07:28:25] <Splarka>	does your IRC client support a spell checker type plugin/userscript?
[07:28:26] <Splarka>	http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_prepositions   heh
[07:33:59] <MZMcBride>	I can name 31 to the tune of Yankee Doodle Dandee.
[07:34:08] <yksinaisyyteni>	really?
[07:34:15] <MZMcBride>	Yes.
[07:34:38] <yksinaisyyteni>	how special
[07:34:47] <MZMcBride>	About above across after against among around at before beside between by down during except for from in into near of off on over through to toward under up with without.
[07:34:56] <MZMcBride>	Indeed.
[07:35:13] <MZMcBride>	Dandy. I think it's Dandy.
[07:35:41] <yksinaisyyteni>	also, too many semicolons
[07:36:01] <Splarka>	php habit?
[07:36:14] <yksinaisyyteni>	no;
[07:37:31] <Splarka>	are you connected to the US tubes via trans-atlantic telegraph?
[07:38:08] <Splarka>	(that was the golden age of the semicolon)
[07:38:22] <yksinaisyyteni>	NO STOP BUT SOMETIMES THE INTERNET HERE FEELS LIKE IT IS STOP STOP
[07:38:55] <MZMcBride>	"The earliest general use of the semicolon occured in 1591. Shakespeare's sonnets contains semicolons, but Ben Johnson was the first English writer of note to use the semicolon systematically."
[07:39:10] <Krimpet>	The golden age of the � � � � � �, ya mean. ;)
[07:39:20] <MZMcBride>	I don't think a grammar site with grammar mistakes is very reliable...
[07:39:43] <Splarka>	.-- . .-.. .-.. --..--  -. --- -  --- ..-.  -- --- .-. ... .  -.-. --- -.. .  ... .--. . -.-. .. ..-. .. -.-. .- .-.. .-.. -.-- --..--  -... ..- -  - . .-.. . --. .-. .- .--. .... ...  -.. .. -..  --. . -. . .-. .- .-.. .-.. -.--  . -- .--. .-.. --- -.--  .. -
[07:40:06] <Splarka>	semicolon in morse: -.-.-.
[07:40:45] <Splarka>	heh: "Perusing telegraph manuals reveals that Morse code is to the semicolon what weedkiller is to the dandelion. Punctuation was charged at the same rate as words, and their high price � trans-Atlantic cables originally cost a still-shocking $5 per word � meant that short, punchy lines with minimal punctuation were necessary among businessmen and journalists."
[07:41:18] <Krimpet>	.. / .-.. .. -.- . / -.-. .... .. -.-. -.- . -. .-.-.- / ---... -..
[07:41:29] *Splarka 	invoices river $65
[07:41:52] <Splarka>	43.47 GBP
[07:44:09] <MZMcBride>	"Modulo" is a preposition.
[07:44:11] <Splarka>	-.-. .- -. -. .. -... .- .-..
[07:44:15] <MZMcBride>	Allegedly.
[07:44:17] <MZMcBride>	Interesting.
[07:44:18] <Splarka>	I used to flash morse code at a neighbor 3 miles away with a 3 "D" maglite
[07:44:19] <Splarka>	slow conversations
[07:44:21] <MZMcBride>	Nothing in that story surprises me.
[07:45:20] <Splarka>	you're a preposition, MZM
[07:45:21] <MZMcBride>	You know what surprises me? The fact that neither Wiktionary nor Wikipedia have argued about the dash in the <title>.
[07:45:39] <MZMcBride>	I should go ruffle some feathers.
[07:45:45] <werdnum>	ugh, dashes.
[07:45:55] <Krimpet>	MZMcBride, what dash?
[07:45:58] <MZMcBride>	I know, right? This is perfect for the MoS freaks...
[07:46:07] <MZMcBride>	Krimpet: "Page title - Project"
[07:46:14] <werdnum>	The epitome of Wikipedian "attention to detail"
[07:46:18] <werdnum>	(aka nitpicking)
[07:46:24] <MZMcBride>	Neurotic. 
[07:46:25] <Splarka>	whatcha want? pipes? bullets? commas?
[07:46:31] <MZMcBride>	Or obsessive-compulsive.
[07:46:35] <Krimpet>	Ohh.
[07:46:40] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: Maybe an en dash. Or an em dash.
[07:46:44] <Splarka>	do | in IRC topics cause you to itch madly?
[07:47:09] <MZMcBride>	The possibilities are endless!
[07:47:11] <MZMcBride>	No, that's the convention.
[07:47:12] *Splarka 	gets under MZM's skin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-?redirect=no
[07:47:13] <MZMcBride>	But perhaps we should use a pipe in the <title>
[07:47:15] <MZMcBride>	.
[07:47:16] <Krimpet>	I'm personally a fan of ?, U+2747.
[07:47:32] <MZMcBride>	It is after all an illegal character in page titles, unlike the hyphen.
[07:47:33] <Splarka>	a pipe at least wouldn't do that ^, since it is verbotten
[07:47:36] <Splarka>	arr
[07:47:42] *Splarka 	gets OUT of MZM's skin, bad juju
[07:48:24] <Krimpet>	It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the hose again...
[07:48:24] <Splarka>	you could wrap it in [[$1]] Wikipedia...
[07:48:25] <MZMcBride>	I still think it's imperative that developers spend tens of hours ensuring that the &minus is used instead of the the hyphen in watchlist negative byte counts.
[07:48:29] <MZMcBride>	Tens of hours, I say!
[07:49:12] <Splarka>	MZM: tell me, what do your various browsers delimit the <title> contents with, and the browser name? (if any)
[07:49:46] <MZMcBride>	FF3 doesn't put its name in the <title>.
[07:49:57] <Splarka>	sure, but you've used and have other browsers
[07:50:12] <Splarka>	FF3 doesn't magically make them all disappear (as much as we wish it would)
[07:50:19] <MZMcBride>	Safari doesn't either.
[07:50:39] <Splarka>	we can't switch to from animated gif to animated png, or allow in-browser SVGs
[07:51:05] <yksinaisyyteni>	MZMcBride: huh?  yes it does
[07:51:15] <MZMcBride>	Mine doesn't...
[07:51:19] <yksinaisyyteni>	mine does
[07:51:20] <Splarka>	or use -moz-super-sexy-automated-style: true;
[07:51:39] <yksinaisyyteni>	Forums -> General Music Forum - Mozilla Firefox
[07:51:40] <Splarka>	river: what delimits your pagetitle - browsername? still a dash?
[07:51:40] <werdnum>	Splarka: on my website, I put in -moz-border-radius and -webkit-border-radius.
[07:51:47] <Krimpet>	MZMcBride, that might be a Mac thing.
[07:51:56] <Splarka>	werdnum: you use the third one too?
[07:51:58] <Krimpet>	Since it already says "Mozilla Firefox" in the title bar.
[07:51:58] <werdnum>	IE users can bugger off, I can't be bothered to do all of the rest of the implementation.
[07:52:08] <werdnum>	Splarka: border-radius?
[07:52:09] <Krimpet>	er
[07:52:11] <Krimpet>	Menu bar.
[07:52:47] <Splarka>	werd: whatever it is, too tired to check
[07:53:51] <MZMcBride>	http://pruebita.com/title.png
[07:53:54] <Splarka>	MZM: I think you will not gain consensus here, the dash seems too natural
[07:53:57] <MZMcBride>	That's Firefox, Opera, Safari?
[07:54:10] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: The intent is to feather-ruffle, not change anything.
[07:54:33] <Splarka>	nice shemale vids
[07:54:34] <Krimpet>	We could just rewrite the entire interface as a Microsoft� Silverlight� application. ;)
[07:54:47] <werdnum>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_but_equal
[07:54:49] <Splarka>	also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:POINT
[07:54:51] <werdnum>	This is such a coatrack.
[07:54:54] <werdnum>	oops, wrong channel.
[07:55:10] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: You like?
[07:55:16] <MZMcBride>	Yours for only five dolla!
[07:55:28] <Splarka>	15
[07:55:33] <Splarka>	too bocou
[07:55:42] <Splarka>	http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/2664/mesohornyjm6.gif
[07:55:59] <MZMcBride>	Heh.
[07:57:15] <yksinaisyyteni>	MZMcBride: http://www.flyingparchment.org.uk/dump/titles.png
[07:58:57] <Splarka>	so, in what way is 'ruffling feathers' without intent to effect change, not WP:POINT violation? "When a sysop does it, it isn't illegal"
[07:59:42] <yksinaisyyteni>	oh, forgot one: http://www.flyingparchment.org.uk/dump/titles2.png
[08:00:20] *Splarka 	idly wonders what the exact character is in the browser source
[08:00:24] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: Did I say I wasn't violating [[WP:POINT]]?
[08:00:28] <MZMcBride>	yksinaisyyteni: How strange.
[08:01:09] <Splarka>	mmm, I'm thinking Arbcoms
[08:01:18] *Splarka 	has a big spooky outline of a hat above his head
[08:01:43] <Splarka>	yksinaisyyteni: http://www.trueppc.com/gallery2/d/102690-1/desktopiq4.jpg  an epic fail screencap
[08:01:50] <Krimpet>	Splarka, a POINTy hat?
[08:02:12] <Splarka>	"You have a point, you should grow your hair to hide it"
[08:02:25] <werdnum>	"Violating [[WP:POINT]]"
[08:02:26] <werdnum>	ew.
[08:02:32] <werdnum>	you sound like an enpedian.
[08:02:45] <Splarka>	MZM^ per that fail screencap... makes me wanna say "nice shemale vids" to all screencaps ^_^
[08:02:45] *Krimpet 	has a purdy desktop. :D http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8452/mypurdydesktoptc4.jpg
[08:03:00] <yksinaisyyteni>	Splarka: yeah i cropped off the porn folder
[08:03:03] <Splarka>	must... resisit
[08:03:09] <yksinaisyyteni>	(i think)
[08:03:32] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: Did I include the porn folder? >_>
[08:03:51] <MZMcBride>	Ohh, gotcha.
[08:03:56] *MZMcBride 	re-learns to read.
[08:03:58] <Splarka>	Careful with that axe eugene!
[08:04:21] *Krimpet 	SCREEEEEAMS
[08:04:33] <Splarka>	<3 Krimpet
[08:04:39] <Splarka>	's music taste.... and hate apostrophe
[08:05:24] <Krimpet>	My family's pet parrots go nuts when they hear that scream.
[08:05:31] <MZMcBride>	Heh.
[08:05:44] <werdnum>	Krimpet: MIRC, Outlook, Pidgin, uTorrent, Tor, DaemonTools.
[08:05:49] <werdnum>	(your system tray)
[08:05:50] <Splarka>	yksinaisyyteni: 6 browsers? that's porn for some people
[08:06:12] <Krimpet>	werdnum, yes, you win a cheap knock-off plushie of a Pok�mon. :)
[08:06:15] <Splarka>	I'll be in my bunk
[08:06:52] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Do not hide #mw-commentbox - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16480  +comment (10pbirken)
[08:06:58] <werdnum>	Krimpet: yay! I wasn't sure on Pidgin.
[08:07:08] <werdnum>	And WinAmp, how quaint.
[08:07:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "diff to last sighted version" to recent changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16489  (10pgrawehr)
[08:08:07] <Krimpet>	Xming, bluetooth, Pageant, and the BlackBerry daemon were probably hidden in the "show inactive icons" thingy.
[08:08:56] <werdnum>	I love Xming so much.
[08:09:38] <Krimpet>	Yep, it
[08:09:39] <Krimpet>	er
[08:10:07] <Krimpet>	Yep, it's nice. I can even run Linux in a VM and use Xming as a server, if I'd like
[08:10:18] <werdnum>	yeah, done that before.
[08:10:23] <werdnum>	Now I use my laptop in the other room :)
[08:17:25] <werdnum>	Krimpet: tried andLinux?
[08:17:30] <werdnum>	It's Linux ported to WIndows.
[08:19:24] <Krimpet>	werdnum, never really needed Linux since I reformatted; I've been able to find ports for most apps I need
[08:21:57] <werdnum>	I like the windows desktop and apps better, but under the hood I prefer unix-like.
[08:23:47] <Krimpet>	I switched back to Windows for hardware. It runs pretty solid on my laptop, but the Linux drivers for my Intel wireless liked to light random fires in the kernel for some reason
[08:24:05] <werdnum>	My Linux laptop still needs some work
[08:24:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  (10amir.aharoni)
[08:24:23] <werdnum>	suspend/resume sucks, most notably.
[08:24:33] <werdnum>	but I think I need a new laptop anyway, this one's 3 years old.
[08:25:32] <Krimpet>	Mine's 2 1/2; I'm hoping it holds up at least until I go on co-op and get enough money to buy a new one
[08:25:41] <yksinaisyyteni>	werdnum: sounds like you need a mac
[08:25:56] <werdnum>	yksinaisyyteni: eesh, espensive :(
[08:27:05] <Krimpet>	Nobody needs a Mac. :)
[08:36:56] <p858snake>	whats the term for putting a template into the page?
[08:37:13] <werdnum>	transclude.
[09:01:10] <MZMcBride>	I don't understand the page_touched field.
[09:15:24] <RichiH>	i need a fast way to list all articles which are not in any category
[09:22:53] <werdnum>	RichiH: There happens to be such a special page :)
[09:23:20] <werdnum>	RichiH: there's a special page 'Special:UncategorizedPages' that should do what you're after.
[09:23:37] <RichiH>	neat
[09:42:35] <RichiH>	werdnum: does current mediawiki still have the bugs when an article name contains &
[09:45:13] <yksinaisyyteni>	awesome writing quality from wikipedia
[09:45:25] <yksinaisyyteni>	"Interior Gateway Routing Protocol (IGRP) is a kind of IGP which is a distance-vector routing protocol invented by Cisco"
[09:50:13] <werdnum>	RichiH: It's not a MediaWiki bug.
[09:50:27] <werdnum>	It's an ambiguity in your rewrite rules, most likely.
[09:50:47] <yksinaisyyteni>	ampescape
[09:51:08] <yksinaisyyteni>	in 98% of situations, Alias works much better than rewrite
[09:51:31] <werdnum>	yes, Aliases are cooler than rewrites.
[09:52:31] <RichiH>	werdnum: well, mediawiki lists every article which has an ampersand (and is in a category) and being uncategorized
[09:52:36] <RichiH>	so i'd say that is a mediawiki bug
[09:53:48] <werdnum>	Does it?
[09:53:49] *werdnum 	tries.
[09:56:38] <RichiH>	it does in my version, but i am not current
[10:00:08] <werdnum>	I have the ampersand problem on my wikis :)
[10:00:35] <werdnum>	I can't use Alias.
[10:05:17] <Nikerabbit>	mau
[10:05:49] <Nikerabbit>	doesn't work for us either
[10:10:46] <funky>	'lo
[10:12:00] <funky>	is it possible to modify the left column in the index through the wiki itself ? or Do I have to modify the source code ?
[10:16:17] <p858snake>	!sidebar | funky
[10:16:17] --mwbot--	funky: To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>.
[10:18:36] <funky>	thank you p858snake 
[10:34:47] <CIA-8>	03mkroetzsch * r44494 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/storage/SMW_Description.php: Fixed improper use of getTitle()
[10:50:12] <funky>	p858snake: what I want is to add some categories into the sidebar
[10:50:55] <p858snake>	try [[:Category:X|<Name>]]
[11:01:33] <funky>	solved, thank you again
[11:05:01] <jutuveps>	is there some way to generate a list of links to immediate children pages of current page somehow? (i suppose this needs some template magic?)
[11:07:33] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) API parse results differ when JSON callback is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16616 normal; normal; MediaWiki: API; (lupo.bugzilla)
[11:12:01] <CIA-8>	03siebrand * r44495 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (MessagesYue.php MessagesZh_hans.php MessagesZh_hant.php): (bug 44) Fix omission: Image -> File in namespace names for yue, zh-hans, and zh-hant
[11:16:00] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) API parse results differ when JSON callback is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16616  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[11:19:45] <CIA-8>	03raymond * r44496 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialResetpass.php: 
[11:19:45] <CIA-8>	Some tweaks for Special:ResetPass
[11:19:45] <CIA-8>	* Use a more appropriate message for 'Retype new password:'
[11:19:45] <CIA-8>	* Add missing CSS IDs for table and rows
[11:20:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  (10innocentkiller)
[11:23:34] <eject_ck>	Hi all
[11:24:10] <eject_ck>	I'm trying configure LDAP auth with MediaWiki and getting PHP error [Fri Dec 12 13:22:38 2008] [error] PHP Fatal error:  Class 'AuthPlugin' not found in /mediawiki/extensions/LdapAuthentication.php on line 65
[11:24:27] <eject_ck>	cannot find solution for this
[11:26:55] <CIA-8>	03raymond * r44497 10/trunk/phase3/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
[11:26:55] <CIA-8>	* Reword some resetpass related messages: It is a password change, always. IMO "reset" is misleading now.
[11:26:55] <CIA-8>	* Rearrange resetpass related messages in messages.inc
[11:26:55] <CIA-8>	* Remove 1 unused message.
[11:38:20] <CIA-8>	03raymond * r44498 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (196 files): Follow up for r44497: Rebuild all message files
[11:51:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  (10amir.aharoni)
[12:02:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  +comment (10yonidebest)
[12:11:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  (10amir.aharoni)
[12:14:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Implement the Interlanguage extension in Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607  (10smolensk)
[13:22:53] <CIA-8>	03raymond * r44499 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.hooks.php: Add a CSS class to review link
[13:27:37] <CIA-8>	03rotem * r44500 10/trunk/extensions/CentralNotice/CentralNotice.i18n.php: Localization update for he.
[13:36:35] <PecisDarbs>	I have Ubuntu Hardy and MediaWiki 1.3.x newest version. Installed it sucesfully, however, when it tries to redirect to  http://www.site.org/index.php/Main_Page, it gets 304 Forbidden
[13:36:53] <werdnum>	you mean 403 Forbidden?
[13:36:58] <werdnum>	MediaWiki 1.3.x?
[13:37:01] <werdnum>	are you joking? :)
[13:37:07] <Wuzur|ttr>	1.3.x? oder 1.13.x?
[13:37:16] <PecisDarbs>	ok ok
[13:37:17] <Wuzur|ttr>	s/oder/or
[13:37:18] <PecisDarbs>	correction
[13:37:40] <PecisDarbs>	1.13.2
[13:38:00] <PecisDarbs>	werdnum: yes, 403
[13:38:24] *PecisDarbs 	is clumsy with numbers today
[13:41:37] <PecisDarbs>	I have write a report to server admin, but first I would like to ping point root of the problem
[13:41:44] <PecisDarbs>	have/have to/s
[13:44:09] <PecisDarbs>	interesting is that index.php?Main_Page works
[13:44:14] <PecisDarbs>	now I am confused
[14:05:33] <t0lk>	Can anyone help me figure out why text would appear correct under "edit" view but messed up when viewing a page normally? http://bahaikipedia.org/Bahaikipedia:Today%27s_featured_quote/November_2
[14:06:44] <CIA-8>	03raymond * r44501 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialImport.php: Quick hack to disable import for non privileged users. Prolly a regression from r43963
[14:07:37] <CIA-8>	03rotem * r44502 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesHe.php: Localization update.
[14:09:10] <Simetrical>	Why would anyone make /home 711?
[14:09:25] <Simetrical>	I mean, it's not like you could get a list of users' home directories from /etc/passwd, right?
[14:10:11] <werdnum>	hello Simetrical 
[14:10:15] <CIA-8>	03rotem * r44503 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesHe.php: Localization update.
[14:10:17] <agaran>	hello
[14:10:18] <Simetrical>	Hello.
[14:10:30] <werdnum>	Simetrical: what would you suggest for travelling upstate?
[14:10:36] <yksinaisyyteni>	werdnum: a car
[14:10:41] <Simetrical>	What do you mean, what would I suggest?
[14:10:47] <werdnum>	what mode of transport
[14:11:00] <agaran>	Simetrical: am not sure if i understand you correctly, but there was kernel side addon for linux which was hiding all entries in passwd/shadow beside one which reads right now and few system accounts..
[14:11:07] <werdnum>	for two 18 year olds, preferably with stopovers in ithaca and rochester.
[14:11:39] <werdnum>	oh, heading to Toronto.
[14:11:43] <Simetrical>	agaran, yes, but that doesn't say why some (most? all?) Linux distributions have /home set go-r by default, when in that same default configuration anyone can get a list of home directories anyway.
[14:11:44] <werdnum>	Forgot to mention that kinda important part :)
[14:12:08] <yksinaisyyteni>	hmm, i don't remember either fedora, rhel or ubuntu making /home 711
[14:12:19] <agaran>	Simetrical: -ENOIDEA unfortunatelly, but i in most cases do 701 on ~
[14:12:22] <Simetrical>	werdnum, you do realize that I've traveled outside New York and New Jersey about four times in my life, and the only times I can recall ever being upstate are family trips to my grandparents?
[14:12:35] <werdnum>	Simetrical: whoa
[14:12:54] <Simetrical>	agaran, for ~, sure, but /home?
[14:12:58] <agaran>	Simetrical: if i know path, i could enter (ie apache for localhost/~user/ in ~/public_html/ but noone else could)
[14:13:03] <agaran>	Simetrical: security by obscurity?
[14:13:10] <Simetrical>	Not very obscure . . .
[14:13:27] <agaran>	true, but same apply to many other places which could fall in this category
[14:13:40] <Simetrical>	werdnum, I went to Israel once.  Berkeley once, a couple of summers ago.  Washington DC once with my family.  And Philadelphia once on a school trip.
[14:13:47] <Simetrical>	I guess there might be a couple more.
[14:14:02] <Simetrical>	I visited my sister's summer camp once, I think that might have been in Pennsylvania or something.
[14:14:09] <Simetrical>	Visited some relatives in Minneapolis once too.
[14:14:19] <Simetrical>	Fewer than ten times, certainly.
[14:14:22] <t0lk>	Can anyone check out http://bahaikipedia.org/Bahaikipedia:Today%27s_featured_quote/November_2 and tell me what could be causing this problem?
[14:14:35] <werdnum>	Is that normal for college students where you live?
[14:15:00] <werdnum>	Over here, university students are off to bali, europe, the pacific, new zealand, or the states at the drop of a hat.
[14:15:26] <werdnum>	they usually save all year to spend four to six weeks away, generally in Europe, once a year.
[14:16:20] <Simetrical>	werdnum, certainly not the case for most students in my college.  But my college is atypical.
[14:16:37] <Simetrical>	I'm sure you could apply to be a transfer student if you really wanted.
[14:16:49] <Simetrical>	It's probably more common at fancy places like Columbia, but I don't think it's *typical*.
[14:17:13] *werdnum 	resists the temptation to say "It's an American thing"
[14:17:44] <Simetrical>	Yeah, why do we care about foreign countries?
[14:18:04] <werdnum>	Apparently it's the norm in France.
[14:18:09] <Simetrical>	Australia at least can also say that nobody there lives within like a thousand miles of more than one other country.
[14:18:13] <werdnum>	"Why go overseas when we already have everything we want here?"
[14:18:20] <Simetrical>	But it's not as big, so I guess not as self-sufficient.
[14:18:31] <werdnum>	Australia's plenty big.
[14:18:42] <Simetrical>	Not compared to the US, especially not economically.
[14:18:43] <werdnum>	It's about three-quarters of the size of the states, with a tenth of the population.
[14:18:52] <werdnum>	oh, I thought you meant in terms of land area.
[14:19:17] <Simetrical>	No, in that sense it's plenty big, but for self-sufficiency it's population and money that matter.
[14:19:29] <werdnum>	Most people in the Northern parts are within 1000 km of a few other countries.
[14:19:46] <werdnum>	Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, New Caledonia, etc.
[14:19:48] <Simetrical>	Here you have to be in Alaska to be within 1000 miles of two other countries, I think.
[14:19:51] <Simetrical>	Maybe Hawaii.
[14:20:10] <werdnum>	Florida/Louisiana?
[14:20:24] <werdnum>	a few carribean countries and maybe mexico?
[14:20:26] <Simetrical>	Okay, some islands, yeah.
[14:20:30] <Simetrical>	Cuba, etc.
[14:20:57] <werdnum>	Pacific islands are crawling with Australians.
[14:22:09] <werdnum>	Fiji, New Caledonia, Vanauatu, Bali (more Indian Ocean)
[14:22:22] <CIA-8>	03aaron * r44504 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedRevs.hooks.php: Tweak css not to include the space
[14:22:32] <werdnum>	mornin' AaronSchulz 
[14:22:41] <AaronSchulz>	heya
[14:23:13] <werdnum>	14:18 < Simetrical> But it's not as big, so I guess not as self-sufficient.
[14:23:19] <werdnum>	I'm not sure that self-sufficiency is the issue
[14:23:25] <Simetrical>	I'm not either.
[14:23:28] <Simetrical>	But I think it's part of it.
[14:23:29] <werdnum>	in terms of travel, Australians my age do the backpacking thing.
[14:23:43] <Simetrical>	Some Europeans were astonished to hear that some Americans didn't know their currency code.
[14:23:52] <Simetrical>	"Don't you ever buy things from other countries?"
[14:23:55] <Simetrical>	Well . . . no.
[14:23:55] *AaronSchulz 	reads http://www.nabble.com/%22wiki-(usability)-summer%22---like-google-summer-of-code--td20931527.html
[14:24:30] <werdnum>	They pull together some cash, and head to europe for a few weeks/months, staying in crappy accommodation, taking whatever jobs they can find, having sex with whoever they can find, etc.
[14:24:51] <werdnum>	the brits tend to do the same thing.
[14:25:18] <p858snake>	werdnum: so your in your earlier to mid twenties by that aussie statement?
[14:25:26] <werdnum>	no, I'm 17
[14:25:32] <werdnum>	turning 18 next January.
[14:25:36] <AaronSchulz>	baby
[14:25:55] *werdnum 	cries, makes AaronSchulz change his diaper.
[14:26:15] *AaronSchulz 	dumps werdnum in front of a hospital
[14:26:57] <werdnum>	OTOH, the point about buying stuff overseas is an interesting one. Australians routinely order crap from the states.
[14:26:58] <p858snake>	whats that state in the us where you can dump your kids at any age up to 18 and they get sent into foster homes?
[14:27:07] *werdnum 	shrugs.
[14:27:16] <werdnum>	In Australia, I'm technically breaking the law leaving home at 17
[14:27:19] <werdnum>	but only for two weeks.
[14:27:26] <werdnum>	and I think I can support myself :)
[14:27:37] <p858snake>	in queensland you can move out at 16....
[14:27:51] <werdnum>	I'm talking NSW
[14:28:07] <werdnum>	legally 18, but practically "when you can support yourself"
[14:28:27] <werdnum>	over 16, kids are rarely forced to return home, out of fear of putting them back into situations with domestic violence etc.
[14:28:56] <p858snake>	age of consent for medical stuff is stupid it ranges between 16-18 for you to be classified as a adult, eg: i can legally sign for cancer surgery at 16 but not to get a tooth removed till i'm 18
[14:29:06] <werdnum>	haha, that's funny.
[14:29:22] <t0lk>	can anyone help me fix this text display problem?: http://pt.bahaikipedia.org/Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Esbo%C3%A7o
[14:29:33] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: how old are *you*, anyway? early 20s?
[14:29:48] <AaronSchulz>	you could say that
[14:30:08] <werdnum>	I just did.
[14:30:12] <p858snake>	t0lk: what alignment problem?
[14:30:16] <werdnum>	I'm requesting feedback as to its truth value :)
[14:30:22] <t0lk>	does the text look normal to you?
[14:30:29] <t0lk>	or like a bunch of random special characters?
[14:31:09] <p858snake>	t0lk: fine, i think you need a decent unicode font
[14:31:16] <werdnum>	t0lk: looks fine to me.
[14:31:22] <t0lk>	i've never had this problem before today....
[14:31:37] <werdnum>	although it is portuguese, so yeah, just a bunch of random chars :D
[14:32:38] <t0lk>	is this what you see also? http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9632/screenshotrx6.png
[14:32:51] <p858snake>	http://localhostr.com/files/04b663/Predefinio-Esboo%20-%20Bahaikipedia_1229092317313.png
[14:33:12] <t0lk>	oh..
[14:33:13] <t0lk>	ok
[14:33:17] <t0lk>	well that's good i guess
[14:33:53] <t0lk>	what's wrong with my computer all the sudden lol
[14:37:25] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: how much of Configure have you seen?
[14:37:45] <p858snake>	t0lk: have you changed anything since its started?
[14:37:52] <p858snake>	any updated ect
[14:38:00] <AaronSchulz>	all of it, though I didn't study some stuff in depth
[14:38:09] <werdnum>	oic.
[14:38:21] <werdnum>	I don't really feel like refactoring that buildarrayinput stuff yet, anything else that needs doing?
[14:38:40] <werdnum>	I really want to get that stupid thing live so I can move onto the abuse filter.
[14:38:48] <werdnum>	I'd really rather not make my 2-week project a round 6 weeks :D
[14:39:25] *werdnum 	uses 'really' in 3 consecutive messages.
[14:39:33] <t0lk>	p858snake, no, just running programs like normal and a ubuntu update
[14:39:42] <t0lk>	but that shouldn't have changed firefox 
[14:39:47] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[14:39:49] <p858snake>	and what did this update change?
[14:39:54] <Simetrical>	I have a change to texvc that needs review.
[14:39:59] <Simetrical>	Who in heaven's name could review it?
[14:40:03] <t0lk>	it's fixed now that i changed the character encoding and default fonts
[14:40:05] <p858snake>	t0lk: fonts are system wide not just firefox
[14:40:14] <t0lk>	in firefox*
[14:40:15] <werdnum>	Simetrical: Somebody with access to a bunch of test cases :)
[14:40:31] <Simetrical>	werdnum, I'm just adding a new command.
[14:40:48] <Simetrical>	The problem is if my addition somehow causes some setups to fail because they don't have the extra package I require.
[14:40:58] <werdnum>	I think the only means of review is testing :)
[14:41:01] <Simetrical>	http://pastebin.ca/1283576
[14:41:08] <Simetrical>	It works on my machine, is that good enough?
[14:41:16] <Simetrical>	And it should work on Wikimedia, because we use the same distro.
[14:41:24] <Simetrical>	But I don't know if anyone else has the "cancel" package.
[14:41:27] <Simetrical>	It's really neat, though.
[14:42:01] <werdnum>	That makes me run away.
[14:44:31] <Simetrical>	http://www.twcenter.net/~simetrical/images/cancel.png <-- Made by <math>(x - 3)^2 - 9 = x^2 - 6x + \cancelto{0}{9 - 9}</math>
[14:44:39] <werdnum>	hey VasilievVV 
[14:44:55] <Simetrical>	You can also do plain old \cancel to just strike it through, which is really useful.
[14:44:57] <werdnum>	Simetrical: that's cool!
[14:45:06] *werdnum 	loves cancelling.
[14:45:09] <Simetrical>	Yes, indeed it is.
[14:45:12] <werdnum>	It's my favourite part of math.
[14:45:20] *Simetrical 	introduces werdnum to semirings
[14:45:31] <VasilievVV>	hi werdnum
[14:45:36] <werdnum>	eugh, I haven't done that much.
[14:45:57] <Simetrical>	werdnum, semirings are algebraic structures with both addition and multiplication defined, but where neither one necessarily cancels.  :P
[14:46:32] <Simetrical>	(e.g., ax = bx and a + x = b + x do not imply a = b)
[14:46:42] <werdnum>	For my Extension II mathematics, I did complex numbers, conics, polynomials, mechanics, and some other stuff I forgot.
[14:46:45] <Simetrical>	I'll have to bug Tim or someone about whether I can commit that, I guess.
[14:47:05] <Simetrical>	werdnum, this is abstract algebra, undergraduate-level stuff that only mathematicians do.
[14:47:13] <werdnum>	:)
[14:47:29] <werdnum>	My course was considered the most difficult offered in Australia, as far as I know.
[14:48:28] <Simetrical>	Here you can get crazy advanced stuff in high school if you go to a really preppy school, I've heard.
[14:49:07] <werdnum>	Simetrical: this is the 2007 exam paper. Mine was much more difficult than this, on par with the crazy exams of the 80s.
[14:49:09] <werdnum>	http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/hsc_exams/exam-papers-2007/pdf_doc/maths-ex2-07.pdf
[14:49:28] <werdnum>	The questions get progressively more difficult until Q8
[14:49:47] <werdnum>	1-4 are usually 50-60/60 for talented students, 7-8 have a median mark of 0 or 1
[14:50:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) <references/> fails after Special:Prefixindex - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15819  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[14:51:30] <Simetrical>	Basic calculus and complex numbers, a cubic, basic probability.  A lot harder than my high school math, but that kind of stuff can't impress me now.  :P
[14:51:39] *Simetrical 	just finished his applications to Ph.D. programs in math
[14:51:50] <werdnum>	heh
[14:52:12] <werdnum>	This year's was quite a bit more difficult
[14:52:18] <werdnum>	I think I burned the exam paper, though.
[14:52:25] *Simetrical 	would get 100.
[14:52:59] <werdnum>	I got over 100 when I did that paper for practice, I think.
[14:53:04] <werdnum>	(It's out of 120)
[14:53:13] <Simetrical>	120, then.
[14:53:13] *werdnum 	lols.
[14:53:27] <werdnum>	I think I got about 80 for this year's paper.
[14:53:30] <Simetrical>	Some of it looks really tedious, though.
[14:53:35] <werdnum>	(the solutions are available online)
[14:53:42] <Simetrical>	You should look at Putnam exams.  Those are fun.
[14:53:54] <MZMcBride>	AaronSchulz: Regarding <references /> + PrefixIndex. I have the issue on my local install. And I see it on test.wikipedia...
[14:53:55] <Simetrical>	Only undergraduate math majors take them, in practice, and the median score on *those* is about 1.
[14:54:09] <AaronSchulz>	I only see it on test.wikipedia
[14:54:21] *Simetrical 	got a 0 on the only Putnam exam he took
[14:55:01] <MZMcBride>	AaronSchulz: Wow. Works fine on en.wiki.
[14:55:14] <Simetrical>	werdnum, here's this year's Putnam exam.  http://www.unl.edu/amc/a-activities/a7-problems/putnam/-pdf/2008.pdf
[14:55:21] <werdnum>	These are the solutions to this year's HSC exam
[14:55:22] <werdnum>	http://www.hsccoaching.com/Resources/2008Ext2.pdf
[14:55:27] <werdnum>	I don't know where the actual paper is.
[14:55:29] <Simetrical>	The problems are meant to be basically comprehensible to talented high school students.
[14:55:41] <Simetrical>	But incredibly difficult even for college seniors.
[14:55:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Deleted categories continue to be cached until logout - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11525  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[14:55:57] <Simetrical>	There have been less than a dozen perfect scores in the history of the competition, I think.
[14:56:07] <MZMcBride>	Hmm. So what do test.wikipedia and my local install have in common that en.wiki does not...
[14:56:23] <MZMcBride>	I'm guessing it's extension-related?
[15:00:10] <VasilievVV>	werdnum: you have a wonderful math exam :)
[15:00:43] <werdnum>	My teacher (who is in his 50s) said it will probably be the most difficult exam I ever sit.
[15:00:47] <werdnum>	Not in terms of content.
[15:00:58] <werdnum>	but in terms of time limit + pressure + nasty algebra
[15:01:04] <werdnum>	+ actually having to think hard.
[15:01:24] <MZMcBride>	Tim is a brilliant man. <onlyinclude> is a wonderful, wonderful tag.
[15:02:02] <MZMcBride>	Oh, I have a question.
[15:02:09] <MZMcBride>	I don't understand page_touched.
[15:02:26] <werdnum>	That isn't a question.
[15:02:35] <MZMcBride>	I'm getting there.
[15:02:39] <MZMcBride>	SELECT MIN(page_touched), page_namespace, page_title FROM page; 
[15:02:46] <MZMcBride>	I ran that on the Toolserver on enwiki_p.
[15:02:55] <MZMcBride>	It gave me:
[15:02:57] <MZMcBride>	| 20050628012319    |              0 | AmericanSamoa | 
[15:03:01] <VasilievVV>	MZMcBride: that's something related to caching
[15:03:08] <MZMcBride>	But that page has clearly been edited since 2005.
[15:03:10] <VasilievVV>	I know that when it
[15:03:17] <MZMcBride>	So I'm very confused.
[15:03:21] <VasilievVV>	's changed, cache is invalidated
[15:03:27] <VasilievVV>	Or something like that
[15:03:35] <werdnum>	MZMcBride: it's used for If-Modified-Since
[15:03:47] <MZMcBride>	Is there any way to force it update?
[15:03:52] <MZMcBride>	+to.
[15:04:00] <werdnum>	purge the page.
[15:04:04] <MZMcBride>	I tried that.
[15:04:08] <MZMcBride>	And I tried null editing.
[15:04:11] <MZMcBride>	Neither did anything.
[15:04:17] <VasilievVV>	MZMcBride: both should
[15:04:27] <MZMcBride>	Well, according to the Toolserver, they don't. ;-)
[15:04:35] <werdnum>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AmericanSamoa&action=history
[15:04:45] <werdnum>	looks like it has been edited *twice* since.
[15:04:52] <MZMcBride>	I know, right?
[15:05:07] <MZMcBride>	This is why I don't understand page_touched. :-(
[15:05:24] <werdnum>	Maybe it wasn't updated then.
[15:05:30] <werdnum>	what's replication lag?
[15:05:36] <VasilievVV>	werdnum: 12s
[15:05:46] <werdnum>	nothing
[15:05:52] <MZMcBride>	And I purged the page and null edited several times last night.
[15:06:21] <MZMcBride>	So (a) the row is simply wrong; (b) it's not updating when it should; (c) I don't understand how it works at all; or (d) profit?
[15:06:46] <MZMcBride>	I was always told page_touched would update with a null edit.
[15:06:48] <CIA-8>	03tstarling * r44505 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
[15:06:48] <CIA-8>	Moved the IE content type checks to their own class. Disassembled IE 5 and 6 and
[15:06:48] <CIA-8>	added the results to the class. The entry points now return an array giving MIME
[15:06:48] <CIA-8>	types for all versions. The most important version difference is the
[15:06:48] <CIA-8>	introduction of an early check for PNG headers in IE 7. Added
[15:06:49] <CIA-8>	application/x-msdownload to disallowed types, haven't been able to reproduce any
[15:06:53] <CIA-8>	vulnerability, but it's better to be on the safe side.
[15:07:18] <werdnum>	mysql> select page_touched from page where page_title='AmericanSamoa' and page_namespace=0\G
[15:07:22] <werdnum>	*************************** 1. row ***************************
[15:07:23] <werdnum>	looks like it updated for me.
[15:07:26] <werdnum>	page_touched: 20081212150503
[15:07:42] <werdnum>	It's definitely for If-Modified-Since and file caching. I can see it in the code.
[15:08:30] <MZMcBride>	The hell? Am I getting cached results from the Toolserver?
[15:08:54] <MZMcBride>	Hmmm.
[15:09:05] <MZMcBride>	SELECT MIN() has different results than your query.
[15:09:06] <werdnum>	anyway, does that answer your question?
[15:09:07] <MZMcBride>	WTF.
[15:09:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Add "talk" link to <list of templates in previev pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16617 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[15:09:21] <MZMcBride>	Sort of. But now I'm confused why my query is outputting bad data.
[15:09:36] <werdnum>	Old data, it'll just be the query caching.
[15:09:56] <MZMcBride>	Is there an override for that?
[15:10:09] *werdnum 	shrugs.
[15:10:09] <MZMcBride>	I'm not a big fan of old data. ;-)
[15:10:14] <werdnum>	restart mysql
[15:10:19] <werdnum>	the client, not the server.
[15:11:17] <MZMcBride>	I exited mysql. Logged out.
[15:11:26] <MZMcBride>	Logged back in. Entered mysql.
[15:11:36] <MZMcBride>	And I'm still getting 2005 as the page_touched.
[15:11:42] <MZMcBride>	From the MIN() query.
[15:12:08] *werdnum 	shrugs.
[15:12:11] <werdnum>	Ask River.
[15:12:22] <werdnum>	if it really matters.
[15:13:01] <TimStarling>	IDA is so great
[15:13:16] *werdnum 	googles.
[15:13:28] <TimStarling>	who needs open source when you have IDA
[15:13:37] <werdnum>	Supports anti-poverty programs in the poorest developing countries with long- term, no interest loans. or Conduct public consultation and research in social and public policy areas. Current projects, organisation details, and examples of previous deliberations.?
[15:13:54] <werdnum>	# Interactive Disassembler, a popular software disassembler tool for reverse engineering
[15:13:58] <werdnum>	ahh
[15:14:04] <MZMcBride>	werdnum: Really quickly, can you run: SELECT MIN(page_touched), page_namespace, page_title FROM page; from your account, please? :-)
[15:14:06] *VasilievVV 	remembers he read about it somewhere
[15:15:00] <werdnum>	MZMcBride: ... why?
[15:15:13] <MZMcBride>	werdnum: To see if this is caching just for me or something.
[15:15:15] <TimStarling>	I started using the struct feature, rocks
[15:15:18] <MZMcBride>	Or if it does it for multiple people.
[15:15:20] <VasilievVV>	MZMcBride: AmericanSamoa
[15:15:33] <MZMcBride>	VasilievVV: What page_touched did you get from the MIN() query?
[15:15:41] <werdnum>	MZMcBride: you're writing the query wrong.
[15:15:42] <VasilievVV>	MZMcBride: 20050628012319
[15:15:49] <MZMcBride>	werdnum: Eh?
[15:15:52] <werdnum>	that query doesn't do what you think it does.
[15:15:57] <MZMcBride>	Clearly not.
[15:16:13] <MZMcBride>	Which assumption is wrong?
[15:16:22] <werdnum>	mysql> select min(page_id) from page\G
[15:16:22] <werdnum>	*************************** 1. row ***************************
[15:16:22] <werdnum>	min(page_id): 6
[15:16:29] <MZMcBride>	Right.
[15:16:34] <werdnum>	mysql> select page_id from page where page_namespace=0 and page_title='AmericanSamoa'\G
[15:16:38] <MZMcBride>	AmericanSamoa == page_id 6
[15:16:38] <werdnum>	*************************** 1. row ***************************
[15:16:40] <werdnum>	page_id: 6
[15:16:44] <VasilievVV>	SELECT page_namespace, page_title FROM page ORDER BY page_touched LIMIT 1?
[15:17:03] <werdnum>	You're selecting the minimum page_touched, and the first page_namespace, page_title that mysql can find.
[15:17:19] <werdnum>	But I have no idea what you're actually trying to do.
[15:17:27] <werdnum>	TimStarling: what are you decompiling?
[15:17:28] <MZMcBride>	Isn't there only one row that matches page_namespace = 0 and page_title = "AmericanSamoa" ?
[15:17:35] <MZMcBride>	Where is it getting the 2005 string?
[15:17:43] <werdnum>	that's min(page_touched)
[15:17:51] <VasilievVV>	MZMcBride: |              5 | Adding_Wikipedia_articles_to_Nupedia | 20050628012319 |
[15:17:57] <MZMcBride>	Ohhhh. 
[15:18:00] <TimStarling>	see last commit
[15:18:13] <MZMcBride>	Bastard MySQL.
[15:18:33] <MZMcBride>	Okay. Well that makes much more sense.
[15:18:42] <werdnum>	TimStarling: IE, but I can't figure out why :)
[15:19:00] *werdnum 	reads the full commit.
[15:19:22] <TimStarling>	oh, well I'm not allowed to say precisely why because everyone's vulnerable and you're all going to die
[15:19:28] <TimStarling>	but let's just say it's for some important reason
[15:20:44] <werdnum>	It's okay, I know what you did now :)
[15:20:56] *werdnum 	sees wat u did there.
[15:21:21] <TimStarling>	I ported about 1000 lines of IE code in three different versions from assembly to PHP
[15:21:50] <werdnum>	That sounds like not much fun.
[15:22:13] <TimStarling>	I was doing this sort of thing long before I started working on MediaWiki
[15:22:29] <werdnum>	Well, you did software engineering, didn't you?
[15:22:34] <TimStarling>	no
[15:22:40] <TimStarling>	physics
[15:22:54] *werdnum 	has a bad memory.
[15:23:12] <AaronSchulz>	heh
[15:23:16] <TimStarling>	I used to disassemble things for fun on my XT, when I was 16
[15:23:37] <TimStarling>	but back then I used "debug", which wasn't nearly as much fun as IDA
[15:23:51] *AaronSchulz 	wonders how LQT is going
[15:23:59] *werdnum 	looks at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_XT
[15:24:13] <TimStarling>	yeah, it was old at the time
[15:24:28] <werdnum>	In 1986, the XT/286 (IBM 5162) with a 6 MHz Intel 80286 processor was introduced. This system actually turned out to be faster than the ATs of the time using 8 MHz 286 processors due to the fact that it had zero wait state RAM that could move data more quickly.
[15:24:32] <werdnum>	wow, a 6 MHz processor.
[15:24:58] <TimStarling>	I was using it in 1996
[15:25:30] <werdnum>	When did you first get it?
[15:25:35] <werdnum>	1996.. that was when I started school.
[15:26:18] <TimStarling>	not more than a couple of years earlier
[15:26:40] <TimStarling>	it had an 8086 processor, 640KB memory, 20MB hard drive
[15:27:02] *werdnum 	loves hearing about the specs of old computers.
[15:27:09] <AaronSchulz>	werdnum: I'll have to keep poking brion
[15:27:32] <werdnum>	AaronSchulz: I have no idea about LQT, I thought davidmccabe was working on it, but I haven't seen a commit.
[15:27:43] <TimStarling>	more powerful on paper than the family computer at the time, which was the Atari ST
[15:27:43] <werdnum>	TimStarling: What did it run on?
[15:28:09] <TimStarling>	but the atari had proper graphics and a GUI, the XT only had text mode and DOS
[15:29:20] <str4nd>	TimStarling, I sent a msg to xff@wikimedia.org
[15:29:32] <werdnum>	Wikipedia says the Atari ran on CP/M, and the XT ran on DOS.
[15:29:37] <werdnum>	str4nd: easy, it's 2:30am here :)
[15:29:48] <TimStarling>	no, it ran TOS
[15:29:59] <TimStarling>	with GEM on top of that
[15:30:19] <TimStarling>	it was written by digital, the same people who wrote CP/M
[15:30:20] <BalthCat>	quick question: I see that namespaces are Blah:Article, does having an article such as Bob: The Builder do anything unseemly to MediaWiki, or would that be fine as an aesthetic choice in a small mediawiki?
[15:30:35] <TimStarling>	but it wasn't CP/M
[15:30:55] <Nikerabbit>	hello
[15:31:04] <werdnum>	ah, I only skimmed the article.
[15:31:15] <werdnum>	BalthCat: that's fine, so long as there is no namespace 'Bob'.
[15:31:29] <werdnum>	missed the next sentence which said "They didn't actually end up using CP/M"
[15:32:17] <werdnum>	I think the earliest computers I remember were the early stages of the PC. I do remember the excitement of upgrading to Windows 95, very very vaguely.
[15:33:27] <BalthCat>	werdnum: Thanks :3
[15:33:38] <TimStarling>	well, there was a lot of history before Windows 95
[15:34:40] <werdnum>	Ah, "early stages of the PC" is inaccurate.
[15:34:43] <TimStarling>	the Apple II came out in 1979, that's generally regarded as the first popular PC
[15:34:58] <werdnum>	I'm talking specifically about when the IBM PC became mainstream.
[15:35:57] <TimStarling>	mainstream, or dominant to the exclusion of all else?
[15:36:08] <werdnum>	the latter.
[15:36:50] <TimStarling>	it was pretty popular starting in the late 80s
[15:38:23] <werdnum>	Yes, I'm thinking of when the Atari, Amiga, etc started to drop off the market.
[15:40:01] <BalthCat>	I have one more question:  If you create articles with sub-pages, such as /wiki/Bob/House, is there any way to shorten referencing /Bob/* in Wikilinks or do you need piping to hide the full path?
[15:40:33] <werdnum>	BalthCat: If subpages are enabled for that namespace, you can use [[/House]] on Bob to refer to Bob/House
[15:41:00] <BalthCat>	werd: Which is the case with the User space, right?  
[15:41:07] <BalthCat>	But not normally the main space?
[15:41:33] <werdnum>	Correct, but that's easily changeable.
[15:41:45] <BalthCat>	Still need piping to hide the / no?
[15:41:57] <werdnum>	yes.
[15:42:02] <BalthCat>	doh
[15:42:30] <BalthCat>	I'm trying to satisfy my neurotic need to sort with the "laziness" (or more appropriately lack of neurosis?) of the other users :P
[15:43:24] <werdnum>	I'm not sure how you could expect any fewer than two extra characters to indicate that a link is to a subpage, and not to a regular page.
[15:43:39] <werdnum>	Really... one character to say "Subpage", one character to say "Hide the /"
[15:49:23] <BalthCat>	I just mean that getting them to agree to put / out front would probably be hard enough, let alone getting them to pipe out all the slashes :P
[15:49:38] <werdnum>	Well, what would your suggestion be?
[15:50:00] <BalthCat>	cry and give up ;_;
[15:50:29] <werdnum>	:)
[15:51:19] <BalthCat>	Thanks for your help!  I shall away!
[15:52:00] *werdnum 	discovered that Planck's constant = 8.66406716 × 10-14 yoctoparsec rod pennyweights per millennium.
[15:53:41] <werdnum>	looks like Brion is awake.
[15:53:53] <werdnum>	That means I should be asleep.
[15:54:54] <MZMcBride>	Hmmm. Special:Preferences looks strange now.
[15:55:11] <MZMcBride>	We should remove the <h2> for "Change password" and stick that link somewhere else I think.
[15:55:26] <MZMcBride>	Maybe next to username.
[16:05:56] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Spam Blacklist misdetects URLs within URLs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16618 normal; normal; MediaWiki extensions: Spam Blacklist; (mikelifeguard)
[16:06:20] <Tolsome>	hi. Pictureupload is standard 8MB. I want 200 KB. How can I make that?
[16:06:42] <werdnum>	I don't understand your question.
[16:07:19] <Tolsome>	The upload from pictures has a mb limit
[16:07:36] <Tolsome>	when my picture is more than 8 MB, I can't upload ist
[16:07:38] <Tolsome>	*it
[16:08:01] <Tolsome>	but I want set the limit to 200 KB
[16:08:03] <werdnum>	okay, but you said you wanted it to be 200 kB
[16:08:08] <werdnum>	200 kB is LESS than 8 MB.
[16:08:09] <Tolsome>	yes
[16:08:32] <Tolsome>	how can I set the 8 MB to 200 KB?
[16:08:37] <Tolsome>	in LocalSettings?
[16:08:47] <werdnum>	No, in your php configuration.
[16:09:39] <Tolsome>	thanks.
[16:09:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Spam Blacklist misdetects URLs within URLs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16618  +comment (10djbeetstra)
[16:10:19] <Tolsome>	Do you know how can I filter pictures that are to big?
[16:10:35] <Tolsome>	and deleted this pictures automatically
[16:10:51] <werdnum>	You should set the site configuration to reject images above a certain size.
[16:10:57] <werdnum>	I believe this is done in your PHP configuration
[16:10:59] <werdnum>	!faq
[16:10:59] --mwbot--	Before reporting a problem or requesting assistance, please check the FAQ first. The FAQ for MediaWiki can be found at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:FAQ
[16:11:02] *werdnum 	looks
[16:11:26] <werdnum>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads#Set_maximum_size_for_file_uploads
[16:12:04] <Splarka>	!filesize
[16:12:04] --mwbot--	The size of files you can upload to PHP is limited by the upload_max_filesize and post_max_size directives in your php.ini. MediaWiki itself only limits direct (copy) uploads from a URL, this is configured via $wgMaxUploadSize.
[16:12:43] <Splarka>	note if you set post_max_size too low, page limits will be restricted too
[16:13:29] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Spam Blacklist misdetects URLs within URLs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16618  +comment (10mikelifeguard)
[16:14:46] <Tolsome>	$wgMaxUploadSize=300KB;
[16:14:51] <Tolsome>	so ?
[16:14:58] <Tolsome>	right?
[16:19:19] <Splarka>	no
[16:19:37] <Splarka>	$wgMaxUploadSize is only from upload-by-URL
[16:20:34] <Tolsome>	argh
[16:20:36] <Tolsome>	ok
[16:20:55] <Tolsome>	but I looking for the wikiupload
[16:21:43] <Splarka>	<mwbot> The size of files you can upload to PHP is limited by the upload_max_filesize and post_max_size directives in your php.ini.
[16:22:14] <Tolsome>	yes, but can you explain that in more detail, please.
[16:22:43] <Tolsome>	and in what folder is the php.ini
[16:22:44] <Tolsome>	?
[16:23:10] <machine1>	is there a problem when going to the new version of mysql
[16:23:13] <machine1>	or php 5.2
[16:23:35] <machine1>	i upgraded my server to vps, and everything broke, so i wiped it off.
[16:35:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API parse results differ when JSON callback is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16616  +comment (10herd)
[16:36:39] <Splarka>	oops
[16:38:52] <Splarka>	damn you bugzilla and your lack of preview
[16:41:24] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API parse results differ when JSON callback is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16616  (10herd)
[16:55:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod)  Automatic account creation of locally forbidden usernames is not prevented by local blacklists - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16615  (10mikelifeguard)
[16:56:20] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: The amount of existential bullshit on this bug is mind-boggling: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40896 (Regarding Bugzilla having a preview option)
[16:58:54] <Splarka>	imagine how much less bullshit there'd be there if it _had_ a preview
[16:58:58] <Splarka>	meta
[16:59:21] <Splarka>	(and not just because the bug would be closed, but because people could preview their comments)
[16:59:35] <Splarka>	MZMcBride: what happens with <references/> and prefixindex?
[16:59:45] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: Try it on test.wiki and en.wiki.
[17:00:21] <MZMcBride>	With the test case: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15819
[17:00:24] <MZMcBride>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefixindex%2Breferences
[17:00:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) File histories should be paged, requires modification of File. php and friends - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12645  (10JSchulz_4587)
[17:00:54] <Splarka>	well, can you just summarize? because I found something similar with {{Special:NewPages}}, and only on certain wikis, and it happened because there were no new pages in the recent changes table
[17:00:58] *Splarka 	clicks
[17:01:27] <agaran>	smith'n'wesson: intuitive point'n'click interface
[17:01:45] <MZMcBride>	Splarka: On test wiki it outputs only 1 reference, ignoring the above the transclusion.
[17:01:55] <MZMcBride>	On en.wiki it works as expected (outputting two refs).
[17:02:56] <Splarka>	does it change if the prefixindex returns results vs doesn't?
[17:03:12] <Splarka>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16129  <-- here is the Newpages bug
[17:03:48] <MZMcBride>	I don't think so.
[17:04:13] <Splarka>	ahh, probably not related then
[17:04:40] <Splarka>	except for being related in that special page transclusion is fubar
[17:07:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Do not hide #mw-commentbox - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16480  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[17:08:06] <lunaphyte_>	hi :)
[17:19:02] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Suggestion from village pump - 10http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16619 15enhancement; normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (texteng)
[17:20:14] <lunaphyte_>	how can i prevent http://<server_address>/pma form being displayed as a link?
[17:20:23] <lunaphyte_>	err, *from.
[17:20:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add filters to history page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16619  summary; +comment (10nakonwiki)
[17:20:41] <Reedy>	i was just going to do that
[17:20:42] <Reedy>	lol
[17:21:02] <nakon>	gotta love titles like that :p
[17:21:07] <Reedy>	yeah
[17:21:14] <Reedy>	i dont get why people put completely useless titles
[17:21:17] <MZMcBride>	lunaphyte_: <nowiki>http:</nowiki>
[17:21:35] <MZMcBride>	Reedy: I killed most bad summaries a few months ago.
[17:21:38] <MZMcBride>	"Problem"
[17:21:39] <Reedy>	heh
[17:21:43] <MZMcBride>	"Message error"
[17:21:47] <lunaphyte_>	MZMcBride: ah - thanks.
[17:21:49] <MZMcBride>	Shit like that.
[17:25:36] <Charitwo>	hi ialex 
[17:25:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "talk" link to <list of templates in previev pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16617  (10nakonwiki)
[17:25:59] <ialex>	hello Charitwo
[17:26:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add "talk" link to <list of templates in previev pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16617   +patch (10nakonwiki)
[17:28:53] <Splarka>	hmmm
[17:30:10] <Splarka>	I guess it'd be a privacy violation to have an API query similar to &meta=userinfo&hasmsg for other users... (OMG, THEY READ MY MESSAGE BUT DIDN'T RESPOND, ARBCOM!)... but it'd sure be handy for userscripts checking across projects (where ajax isn't allowed but callback is, but drops tokens)
[17:31:19] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44506 10/trunk/phase3/includes/IEContentAnalyzer.php: svn:eol-style native
[17:31:31] <Simetrical>	Use HTML5 inter-domain communication thingie!
[17:31:59] <Splarka>	or I could write such a script for use via SSL (all same domain)
[17:33:36] <Simetrical>	Okay, I want to remove this as FUD.  Any objections?  http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:Running_MediaWiki_on_Debian_GNU/Linux&diff=87694&oldid=87693
[17:35:54] <Simetrical>	Whoa, Tim actually disassembled IE to get at its MIME-checking code?
[17:37:27] <Simetrical>	Oh, wait, that diff didn't actually add the text.
[17:38:09] <Simetrical>	Well, "Normally servers shouldn't have gcc installed (if not really necessary) for security reasons" sounds ridiculous, so I'm going to remove it.
[17:39:25] <atglenn>	to be honest people probably shouldn't be doing builds on their production systems, but that's common sense in any large scale deployment... I vote to toss 
[17:49:42] <Simetrical>	It's not a security issue, though.
[17:49:53] <Simetrical>	Anything you could do with gcc you could do with perl or something.
[17:50:11] <Simetrical>	Or by, like, copying gcc to /tmp if you really wanted.
[17:50:16] <Simetrical>	From a network.
[17:52:37] <atglenn>	brb
[17:57:55] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44507 10/trunk/extensions/ (4 files in 3 dirs): svn:eol-style native
[18:21:48] <CIA-8>	03ialex * r44508 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesFr.php: 
[18:21:49] <CIA-8>	Manual exporting namespaces aliases from Betawiki (bug 44: renaming of Image namespace to File)
[18:21:49] <CIA-8>	Only added alias for "Discussion Image" (Image talk) since the name of the "Image" namespace is the same in English and French and the alias is already present
[18:21:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Do not hide #mw-commentbox - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16480  (10pbirken)
[18:23:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) FlaggedRevisions extension: API "sighting" of revisions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16278  (10pbirken)
[18:27:37] <Splarka>	darn you mediawiki
[18:27:47] *Splarka 	has accesskey="," in all his textarea by habit now
[18:29:47] <CIA-8>	03demon * r44509 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove these tooltips in favor of actually putting the information inline.
[18:30:11] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Special:Statistics does not explain what * means - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16481  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:03:30] <badw00t>	this will be a bit of an odd question
[19:03:38] <badw00t>	but, I shall try anywy
[19:03:44] <Wuzur>	badw00t: Just ask!
[19:04:03] <badw00t>	I have a (heavily templated) wiki running 1.8, which I have now upgraded to SVN.. how hard will it be to adapt the theming for the (massive) version change?
[19:05:33] <Wuzur>	badw00t: Normally not, maybe you want to read that (if you haven't done yet): http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[19:06:46] <badw00t>	well, I have, and the wiki itself is upgraded, I'm about to start touching the theme.. and, I'm not so sure I want to try wade through the changelogs from 1.8 -> 1.13, as they are massive :|
[19:06:58] <badw00t>	so I was wondering whether anyone had been through something similar
[19:09:43] <Simetrical>	badw00t, the skin hasn't changed much.  If you're just changing Monobook with CSS you should be mostly okay.
[19:10:04] <Simetrical>	If you've written a whole new skin file you might need to adapt it some, but shouldn't be a huge deal.
[19:10:27] <badw00t>	hehe. yeah, it's a new skin as it's quite drastically different, to match the rest of our infra, unfortunately..
[19:11:00] <Simetrical>	You can get the svn log for MonoBook.php for the appropriate revision range if you like.
[19:11:11] <Simetrical>	Shouldn't be a lot of important stuff, but there will be some.
[19:11:28] <badw00t>	hmm, that's an idea
[19:11:32] <badw00t>	I'll take a look, thanks
[19:25:25] <jY>	i switched the login to ldap.. now i can't seem to login with the root account to get admin.. is there a db or config way to make a user in sysop
[19:42:57] <antitab>	hi, dumb question
[19:43:02] <antitab>	how do I enable file uploads on my wiki?
[19:43:29] <Simetrical>	!upload | antitab 
[19:43:29] --mwbot--	antitab: File uploads are disabled per default, set $wgEnableUploads=true to enable it. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads> for configuration details, <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Managing_files> and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images> for using uploaded images and other files.
[19:43:35] <antitab>	ah
[19:59:05] <antitab>	hmm
[19:59:12] <antitab>	how do I see the code of the infobox templates?
[20:01:33] <Wuzur>	antitab: Go to the template and click on edit
[20:01:41] <Wuzur>	(or view source)
[20:01:43] <alex_21>	Hi, how do I get rid of the toolbox in a skin based on the MonoBook skin?
[20:05:51] <Splarka>	alex_21: if you copied Monobook.php you probably just want to remove function toolbox() and references to it
[20:07:08] <antitab>	bah, I need major help with this :(
[20:07:27] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:08:36] <Splarka>	alex_21: it looks like you could just be lazy and comment out the second line:
[20:08:37] <Splarka>				} elseif ( $boxName == 'TOOLBOX' ) {
[20:08:37] <Splarka>					$this->toolbox();
[20:08:39] <alex_21>	What lines in terminal are these things I need to remove. Terminal crashes when I use up arrow often. I am using 1.13.2
[20:09:01] <Splarka>	well, what exact revision of Monobook.php did you copy? I can't guess the lines that code will appear on for you
[20:09:18] <Splarka>	hmm
[20:09:49] <alex_21>	http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php
[20:09:54] <Splarka>	in the trunk version of MonoBook.php the line is 193
[20:10:09] <Splarka>	change:
[20:10:10] <Splarka>	$this->toolbox();
[20:10:12] <alex_21>	Just an estimate is fine. It only crashes after a while of using up arrow
[20:10:12] <Splarka>	to:
[20:10:14] <Splarka>	//$this->toolbox();
[20:10:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localized namespaces for mt.wp - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16373  +comment (10djchris_portelli)
[20:10:35] <gola>	How can I delete a file uploaded to mediawiki? I just simply cannot find a button or a configuration option from DefaultSettings.php or FAQ.
[20:10:51] <alex_21>	Oh, thanks a million
[20:11:10] <ialex>	gola: delete the page
[20:11:14] <Wuzur>	gola: With sysop-rights you can using the delete-button
[20:12:05] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot can anyone help me with this infobox stuff :<
[20:14:06] <Wuzur>	antitab: Go to the English Wikipedia (or whatever) at the page Template:Infobox Software and click edit - there is the source
[20:14:07] <Nikerabbit>	why is ParserFirstCallInit executed twice?
[20:14:15] <antitab>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Software/doc
[20:14:31] <antitab>	er http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Software
[20:15:05] <buzz_>	do you think it might be time to drop ie5 support from monobook ?
[20:15:22] <Wuzur>	antitab: hmm it's a more complex one, maybe using Special:Export what can export all included templates?
[20:16:00] <Splarka>	buzz_: I have a copy of IE5 and it is dropped, trust me
[20:16:11] <Splarka>	the wikibits.js generates about a billion errors
[20:16:34] <buzz_>	aah ok
[20:16:44] <Splarka>	oh, unless you mean IEfixes5
[20:16:47] <buzz_>	yeh
[20:16:48] <buzz_>	i mean
[20:16:51] <Splarka>	srry
[20:17:09] *Splarka 	tests it
[20:17:42] <antitab>	ok, I'm trying to export Template:Infobox_Software
[20:18:03] <antitab>	but it doesn't seem to want to add it to the list
[20:18:49] <buzz_>	i have a skin based on monobook. although i removed most of the "fixes" and workarounds.. i certainly am not bothered about supporting browse x just because it has some bug and 1 pixel is out etc
[20:19:43] *Splarka 	stabs IE5 to resolve upload.wikimedia
[20:20:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localized namespaces for mt.wp - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16373  +comment (10siebrand)
[20:20:15] <antitab>	ok, I imported it
[20:20:16] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:20:20] <antitab>	my page still looks borked
[20:20:25] <Splarka>	btw, buzz_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Catalogue_of_CSS_classes   see the fixes section
[20:20:44] <antitab>	oh
[20:20:47] <antitab>	the import is fuxed
[20:20:48] <antitab>	grr
[20:21:10] <buzz_>	Splarka, useful page thanks.
[20:21:30] <antitab>	;-;
[20:22:22] <antitab>	isn't there code somewhere that I can copy/paste?
[20:22:51] <Splarka>	buzz_: hahah, lemme show you some screenshots
[20:23:06] *Splarka 	will upload them, sec
[20:24:17] <buzz_>	Splarka, i bet it looks lovely :-) hehe
[20:24:18] <gola>	ialex, wuzur: Thanks. I was just missing the delete option from sysop :)
[20:25:10] <buzz_>	i have ie5.x on virtualbox. not that i test sites on it anymore.
[20:25:38] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:25:39] <antitab>	oh god what
[20:26:41] <Splarka>	buzz_: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ie5fixes.jpg  http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ie5nofixes.jpg
[20:28:02] <Splarka>	buzz_: no skin but monobook cares much about IE (or needs to, probably)
[20:28:07] <Splarka>	er, cares _that_ much
[20:28:08] <buzz_>	i just question if its worht supporting such an old browser
[20:28:29] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot <- wtfff
[20:28:31] <buzz_>	i mean.. my skin looks broken on ie5. but the site is useable. that is enough imho
[20:28:34] <Splarka>	depends on what you're doing with your skin
[20:28:50] <buzz_>	i dont want to maintain 8 css hacks files
[20:28:56] <buzz_>	:)
[20:29:00] <ialex>	!e ParserFunctions | antitab
[20:29:00] --mwbot--	antitab: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions
[20:29:01] <buzz_>	and you guys are insane too to do it
[20:29:37] <alex_21>	Who uses IE 5 anymore
[20:29:38] <alex_21>	?
[20:29:53] <buzz_>	noone i think. a few scripts id themselves as ie5.x i think
[20:30:07] <ialex>	alex_21: some people still use IE for mac...
[20:30:42] <alex_21>	You can't possibley say that Mac os X supports it
[20:30:52] <alex_21>	I know nine did
[20:31:33] <Splarka>	alex_21: the thing is...  without IEfixes50 Monobook is _very_ broken, with just a tiny bit of effort maintaining that css it shows as slightly broken, it would take major major work to make it not broken at all in IE5... so the middle ground is chosen
[20:32:01] *buzz_ 	thinks "let it break" .. 
[20:32:18] <Splarka>	and lately, for the very narrow demographic of IE5 users, supporting it involves just not deleting that IEfixes for 5
[20:32:27] <buzz_>	if someone really is browsing in ie5. they are also part of a botnet
[20:32:28] <Splarka>	which would take more effort than not, heh
[20:32:35] <buzz_>	:)
[20:32:50] <Splarka>	look at all this effort buzz and I went through to discuss it
[20:32:55] *^demon 	breaks trunk for the nth time today.
[20:33:04] <buzz_>	its not effort i was going to chat to you anyway
[20:33:11] <buzz_>	coz your so nice.
[20:33:14] <buzz_>	you're
[20:33:14] <antitab>	ialex: thanks!
[20:33:18] *Splarka 	sends elephants after circumflexdemon
[20:33:20] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:33:24] <antitab>	looks a lot better
[20:33:28] <antitab>	still not on the side, but
[20:33:41] <^demon>	Splarka: Hold them back! I didn't commit :)
[20:33:45] <^demon>	I broke it *locally*
[20:33:59] <Splarka>	is okay, they're loco elephants
[20:34:12] <^demon>	I don't allow elephants into my localhost.
[20:34:21] <^demon>	Might be trojan elephants.
[20:34:28] <Splarka>	you gonna stop them?
[20:34:34] <Splarka>	wave your mouse at them
[20:35:47] <alex_21>	Oh
[20:36:27] <alex_21>	I se, or maybe not, Blind smiley
[20:36:33] <alex_21>	See, sorry
[20:38:30] <Wuzur>	antitab: You have to copy lines from MediaWiki:Commons.css into yours
[20:39:08] <antitab>	er, ok
[20:39:13] <antitab>	where is commons.css
[20:39:39] <Wuzur>	antitab: The one in Wikipedia, it's an article like any
[20:39:44] <antitab>	k
[20:44:39] <antitab>	Wuzur: can't find the commons.css
[20:45:00] <Wuzur>	antitab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css
[20:45:51] <antitab>	ah, k
[20:45:57] <antitab>	so where do I put that css file?
[20:46:39] <ialex>	antitab: http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css
[20:47:00] <antitab>	ohh
[20:47:32] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:47:32] <Splarka>	!itisnotafile  ^_^
[20:47:35] <antitab>	getting closer and closer
[20:47:48] <ialex>	Splarka: :D
[20:48:12] <Splarka>	ialex: GFDL be damned, nobody can copy wikipedia's content anyway, bwahaha
[20:48:21] <Splarka>	without hours to years of tweaking
[20:49:16] <Nikerabbit>	gfdl wannabe cc-by
[20:49:46] <Wuzur>	Splarka: You can, but then you have to know how it works :D
[20:52:17] <Splarka>	Wuzur: and have the exact extensions and configuration (in regards to parsing), pain
[20:53:08] <antitab>	just another simple q
[20:53:09] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:53:15] <antitab>	how do I fix those errors in the infobox?
[20:53:30] <antitab>	wikipedia doesn't seem to have a MONTHNAME and Age_in_days template
[20:53:45] <antitab>	plus Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "[" 
[20:56:09] <alex_21>	Thanks for your help.
[20:56:15] <alex_21>	Good day. Shaw bash
[20:59:24] <antitab>	k, got the age in days and monthname
[20:59:27] <antitab>	now anyone know about the http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Macbot
[20:59:28] <antitab>	er
[20:59:35] <antitab>	the Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "[" 
[21:00:59] <Nikerabbit>	maui
[21:03:09] <antitab>	ah, got it
[21:03:12] <antitab>	sweet
[21:20:37] <Wuzur>	Does anyone know how the editnotices work? Is it a built in feature or an extension? Do I have to put something into LocalSettings.php or just edit the MW-namespace?
[21:21:21] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/MediaWiki:Editnotice
[21:21:35] <Splarka>	they work like that, it is core, but it is very new (might not even be in 1.13)
[21:21:47] *Wuzur 	has trunk
[21:22:12] <Wuzur>	Splarka: So nothing to change just add this messages, yes?
[21:22:14] <Splarka>	MediaWiki:Editnotice-# will appear in all pages in namespace #
[21:22:28] <Splarka>	MediaWiki:Editnotice-#-Foo will appear on page Foo in namespace #
[21:22:48] <Splarka>	namespaces are numeric since they are (well, sometimes) dynamic
[21:22:57] <Splarka>	in theory, yah
[21:23:06] <Wuzur>	ok
[21:23:09] <Wuzur>	thanks
[21:33:04] <brion>	+			$articlelink .= "<span class='mw-fr-reviewlink'> ($rlink)</span>";
[21:33:09] <brion>	seems like odd spacing
[21:35:54] <brion>	ah been fixed :D
[21:36:25] <Splarka>	you know who else was obsessed about "white space" (are we allowed to Godwin around Wikimedia anymore?)
[21:36:42] <brion>	ba-dum CHING
[21:39:39] <brion>	^demon: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/44509#c911
[21:39:45] <Skizzerz>	:o
[21:39:51] <Skizzerz>	it's ba-dum tish, not ching >:(
[21:40:49] <^demon>	brion: Got it. Siebrand's going to eat me for making the message like legos :)
[21:41:00] <brion>	o_O
[21:41:08] <brion>	with... little bumps so you can attach them? :D
[21:41:23] <qsheets>	lol
[21:41:32] <^demon>	Or with $1's so wfMsgReplaceArgs can attach them :D
[21:41:33] <siebrand>	^demon: if you know that your lego is going to suck, just don't do it. Rethink and find a better solution.
[21:42:03] <siebrand>	and you're young, right. Tender meat...
[21:42:14] <ialex>	o_O
[21:42:18] <Skizzerz>	exactly! If you want something to suck, use a vaccuum instead of a lego
[21:42:29] <Skizzerz>	horribly inefficient to use the latter
[21:42:54] <^demon>	Skizzers: What if you have the robotics kit...I suppose you could make a vaccuum out of legos?
[21:43:04] <Skizzerz>	hmm... I suppose
[21:43:12] <Skizzerz>	but still inefficient :)
[21:44:20] <Skizzerz>	I mean, imagine how much more electricity would be needed to power a lego-made vaccuum... all the cracks in between the lego pieces would leak, and weak points could potentially break off, meaning that you'd have to repair it quite frequently
[21:48:31] <agaran>	Skizzerz: i doubt if doable task, pump which will do near-zero-compression but working would be hard enough
[21:48:32] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) A bug within filename - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16620 normal; normal; MediaWiki: File/Repo; (chipmonkey666)
[21:50:39] <antitab>	how do I set up a navbox?
[21:51:00] <antitab>	http://wiki.command-q.org/index.php?title=Template:⌘-Q_Apps
[21:51:58] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) A bug within filename - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16620  +comment (10brion)
[21:53:56] <alex_21>	Hi, At the top of my wiki ther is links that say jump to navigation and search. Can I get rid of those, as well as navigation. I need to know thelines in MonoBook.php to edit though
[21:54:03] <alex_21>	Mediawiki 1.13.2
[21:56:07] <Platonides>	You can hide them with CSS
[21:56:50] <Splarka>	Platonides: he is making an accessability skin for screen readers
[21:56:52] <Splarka>	alex_21: one sec
[21:57:50] *Splarka 	checks your skin on http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php again
[21:58:36] <Splarka>	alex_21: looks like line ~124
[21:58:45] <Splarka>	<?php if($this->data['showjumplinks']) { ?><div id="jump-to-nav"><?php $this->msg('jumpto') ?> <a href="#column-one"><?php $this->msg('jumptonavigation') ?></a>, <a href="#searchInput"><?php $this->msg('jumptosearch') ?></a></div><?php } ?>
[21:59:18] <Splarka>	just before the comment:  <!-- start content -->
[22:18:04] <alex_21>	Ok, I got rid of the jup, but what about the navigation?
[22:18:28] <alex_21>	How do I get rid of It?
[22:18:49] <alex_21>	?
[22:24:07] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44510 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/ (7 files in 5 dirs): 
[22:24:07] <CIA-8>	improved IE weirdness on click bindings for play, pause
[22:24:07] <CIA-8>	improvements on remote_search module
[22:25:56] <Splarka>	alex_21: oh, misread, thought you meant just the jump to navigation. Do you want to just get rid of all of column one?
[22:27:22] <Splarka>	to get rid of navigation, you can blank that section of MediaWiki:Sidebar but that will disable it for other skins (of those that use it) as well
[22:28:06] <alex_21>	Depends, what is in column one
[22:28:21] <alex_21>	?
[22:28:36] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) $wgBlockAllowsUTEdit = true for Meta - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16621 normal; normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (mikelifeguard)
[22:29:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Set $wgBlockAllowsUTEdit = true for Meta - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16621  summary (10brion)
[22:29:49] <CIA-8>	03dale * r44511 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
[22:29:50] <CIA-8>	pause call fix
[22:29:50] <CIA-8>	conditional debug for experimental add_media script
[22:31:34] *Mike_lifeguard 	likes it when brion gets bossy :D
[22:32:55] <Splarka>	alex_21: the source of monobook, column one contains: p-cactions (the action tabs, such as article/talk/edit/history), p-personal (my page, my talk, my prefs, my contribs, etc, or login for anon), p-logo, the generic boxes generated from MediaWiki:Sidebar including p-navigation, and then p-search (search box), p-tb (toolbox)
[22:33:17] <Splarka>	these are scattered around the page with monobook's CSS
[22:35:19] <alex_21>	But can't I just get rid of nav like i did toolbox?
[22:35:43] <Splarka>	sure, but you don't need to, you can just blank http://www.vipbc.org/wiki/index.php/MediaWiki:Sidebar?action=edit
[22:36:01] <Splarka>	although, if you want it to appear for other skins...
[22:36:25] <alex_21>	Yes, I do want it to appear to other skins
[22:36:38] <alex_21>	... No, I don't, ... what am I saying
[22:36:57] <alex_21>	Or maybe, I just want to leave it as an option
[22:37:19] <Splarka>	hehe
[22:37:28] <alex_21>	Yes, I just want it hidden from MonoBook
[22:37:32] <Splarka>	okay, if you want to kill it like the toolbox in your fork of monobook...
[22:37:50] <alex_21>	Yes
[22:37:50] <Splarka>	I *think* it will work if you comment out near like 197:
[22:37:53] <Splarka>	$this->customBox( $boxName, $cont );
[22:38:36] <Splarka>	but I have to say, this is a bit of the blind leading the blind, I don't know PHP except as pseudocode
[22:41:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Don't report changes to wikibugs-l when only the CC changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15585  +comment (10brion)
[22:42:19] <alex_21>	Ok, nice
[22:42:49] <alex_21>	Now how to get rid of the about/Privacy/stuff links a.k.a. the footer
[22:42:52] <alex_21>	?
[22:43:36] <Splarka>	geez! maybe easier to say what you want to keep, heh
[22:43:39] <alex_21>	Lol, what a true statement if you are blind, because I sure am
[22:43:54] *Splarka 	nods
[22:43:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Don't report changes to wikibugs-l when only the CC changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15585  (10brion)
[22:44:03] <Splarka>	well, I mean, I am just confused by code
[22:44:13] <Splarka>	while you are not, but visually impaired
[22:44:27] <alex_21>	Well, I am sight impaired
[22:44:34] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Don't report changes to wikibugs-l when only the CC changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15585  +comment (10brion)
[22:44:41] <alex_21>	And yes, I just want to get rid of this last thing
[22:44:44] *Splarka 	looks for the footer
[22:44:56] <Splarka>	so... everything in the footer?
[22:45:25] <alex_21>	Yes
[22:45:51] <alex_21>	Like the links, that is all
[22:45:58] <alex_21>	about, gneral, privacy
[22:46:28] <alex_21>	disclaimer, not general, sorry
[22:46:31] <Splarka>	looks like everything from lines (approx) 203 to 235, but it probably isn't that simple
[22:47:04] <alex_21>	Never mind, I will do that by redirecting them instead to the actual privacy policy/disclaimer for my orgnaization
[22:47:08] <Splarka>	(since it would be easy to mess up the XML if you commented out imprecisely, especially the end page closing divs)
[22:47:52] <alex_21>	And then protecting those pages
[22:48:02] <alex_21>	Everything else is good Though
[22:48:13] <Splarka>	you could just hide the whole footer in CSS, #footer {display:none;}, or individual parts, of course that isn't a perfect solution
[22:48:57] <alex_21>	I will look into that, but the original css went by the wayside becuase it was too absolute
[22:49:17] <alex_21>	Absolute possitioning that is
[22:49:27] <alex_21>	So thanks a million for your help
[22:49:27] <Splarka>	yah, monobook is weird
[22:50:02] <Splarka>	all the stuff at the top is actually on the bottom
[22:50:09] <Splarka>	no prob
[22:50:17] <alex_21>	When I finish this skin, ... and I would have liked to know that monobook was weird beforehand, ... how can I get it into mainstream code?
[22:51:05] <Splarka>	if you want to disable the poweredby and copyrightico... you can probably comment out the relevant lines, just a few around 205-209
[22:51:07] <alex_21>	And that is a saving grace that it is on the bottom, no need to skip through everything to get to the content
[22:51:54] <Splarka>	I believe it was designed (or rather, the things it was based on, plone and such) to allow search engines to see content first, but users to see relevant navigation first
[22:52:22] <Splarka>	as for integration into core, I am not sure... new skins are added with extreme hesitancy
[22:52:53] <alex_21>	But an accessibility skin, it must be allowed
[22:52:56] <Splarka>	brion: is there (or has there ever been) any sort of accessability project for a stripped down core skin for screen readers?
[22:53:31] <alex_21>	I mean, you can't expect everyone to have a sighted person read them a wiki or have to skim through all the links at the top first on every page
[22:53:32] <Splarka>	(not just a Skin/SkinTemplate output with everything hidden by CSS, or a chick type portable-squeeze skin)
[22:54:07] <Splarka>	there is always action=render, but that removes all UI
[22:54:50] <alex_21>	Hmm, Maybe I'll upload it somewhere for people to download
[22:55:34] <brion>	Splarka: screen readers *ought* to be fine on the regular skin.... ideally :)
[22:55:39] <brion>	any specific problems?
[22:56:06] <brion>	or recommendations for more specific ui variants?
[22:56:54] <alex_21>	well, all links in nav should be put in a combo box, and so should the preferences
[22:57:10] <alex_21>	and some other features in a third
[22:57:32] <alex_21>	People hate having a lot of elements they have to read through to get to something
[22:58:01] <alex_21>	I use a screen rader and am very frustrated with it.
[22:58:05] <alex_21>	Reader
[22:58:13] <alex_21>	I mean when it comes to Mediawiki
[22:58:46] <brion>	mmmm, nostalgia skin does some of that but is probably awful for screen readers :)
[22:58:56] <alex_21>	Also, it reads the name of a page that a link lis liked to rather than the title of the link
[22:59:02] <brion>	would definitely be interesting to see some work in that direction
[22:59:11] <Splarka>	is that a consequence of a screen reader being too intelligent, and seeing the UI in monobook at the top, when it is really at the bottom?
[22:59:44] <alex_21>	Let me see a ui in original monobook?
[23:00:05] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar
[23:00:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Set wikibugs to be able to join multiple channels - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10760  (10brion)
[23:00:42] <Splarka>	the content starts around: Foobar, From wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. For other uses, see Foobar disambiguation, Not to be confused with FUBAR. The term foobar...
[23:01:02] <Splarka>	with some hidden elements, like jump to navigation
[23:01:35] <alex_21>	Ifit uses CSS, then the Screen reader will iterpret that and start at the top
[23:01:38] <Splarka>	however, visually it appears to start with: Article/navigation/edit this page/history/move/watch, log in or create account
[23:01:47] <alex_21>	With the order of the css file
[23:01:53] <Splarka>	here is the same page with no css:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar?useskin=myskin
[23:02:50] <^demon>	Amazing how one character can completely break a regex :)
[23:03:08] <Splarka>	[^demon]
[23:03:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special:Emailuser should have an input form - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13879  (10brion)
[23:05:00] <CIA-8>	03skizzerz * r44512 10/trunk/extensions/WatchSubpages/WatchSubpages_body.php: * fix for undefined variable upon first viewing form
[23:05:14] <Skizzerz>	wow... I did that like 5 mins ago
[23:05:32] <Skizzerz>	anyway, I wonder if it's possible to detect if the user is using a screen reader via PHP
[23:06:09] <alex_21>	at the top it has nothing either way, which is odd
[23:06:15] <Skizzerz>	because if it is, then we could override the default stylesheet with a "screen reader" stylesheet, moving navigational elements, etc. under the main content
[23:06:32] <Splarka>	is myskin the same as monobook alex_21? if so, then the screen reader probably ignores css
[23:06:48] <Splarka>	Skizzerz: css isn't a solution
[23:07:11] <Splarka>	or, not a good one, at least
[23:07:12] <Skizzerz>	well, I said that while assuming that the screen reader could interpret it
[23:07:40] <alex_21>	It can interperate it
[23:09:50] <alex_21>	Never mind, what a SR does, is reads the code as is. What CSS is used for is telling the code to be elsewhere so that a developer can put things in order for a SR, but the sighted see it differently
[23:10:51] <Splarka>	right, in theory that is what monobook was designed partially around, but feature creep does add to the bloat
[23:10:56] <alex_21>	So, ultimately, a page with three/four combos at the bottom and no logos is optimal for a SR
[23:11:27] <Splarka>	hmm, how does a SR handle bugzilla? that is too much information for most sighted people too
[23:11:50] <alex_21>	I've never used bugzilla
[23:11:53] <Splarka>	40 form elements on an advances search page
[23:12:05] <Splarka>	oop, advanced
[23:12:27] <alex_21>	Oh, my, it treats each one as an element
[23:13:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) rescaling of animated gif increase size - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11822  (10brion)
[23:13:13] <Splarka>	hmm, by combo box, do you mean an intelligent <select> element along with an <input> box?
[23:13:27] <alex_21>	I hate the fact that it looks like PHP can't detect a SR, but I could be wrong
[23:14:23] <Splarka>	is there a standardized or commonly used http header for SR?
[23:14:25] <alex_21>	Look at the navigation of the page at http://www.vipbc.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi
[23:14:36] <Watkec>	Question regarding Special:Export and Import -- we just installed ver 1.13, and the we know have the import working.  I exported a page (with templates) from Wikipedia and imported it into our wiki.  I did import but the result is a bunch if gibblygoop of code.  See http://en.missionalcyclopedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census.  It appears that the templates did load.  But apparently something 
[23:14:36] <Watkec>	is still awry.  Any ideas?
[23:14:56] <Splarka>	ahh, k
[23:15:17] <brion>	Watkec: install ParserFunctions and enable tidy
[23:15:40] <Watkec>	are there instructions somewhere of how to do that?
[23:15:42] <Splarka>	but those are at the top of the page... 
[23:15:55] <alex_21>	But for a header, dI don't think so. Apache has an accessibility module.
[23:15:59] <Splarka>	!e ParserFunctions | Watkec
[23:15:59] --mwbot--	Watkec: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions
[23:16:09] <Watkec>	great thanks!
[23:17:00] <Splarka>	hmm, so such a skin in mediawiki would probably be opt-in, once logged in, through preferences
[23:18:11] <alex_21>	Yes
[23:19:09] <alex_21>	Unless, at the top of the page you could put an accessibility link that wrote a cookie telling the wiki to use another skin, a.k.a. an SR skin
[23:19:52] <alex_21>	Like GMail does. This link is hidden to the sighted, but is read by screen readers I think. If it isn't, you can always hide it
[23:20:21] <alex_21>	Like inside a trasparent GIF or with another techneque
[23:21:18] <freezey>	anyway to bring my data over from confluence into my existing media wiki?
[23:23:17] <yksinaisyyteni>	you can dump confluence data in xml.  from there you might be able to write an importer to mediawiki
[23:23:23] <yksinaisyyteni>	(or convert it to MW's xml format)
[23:23:26] <Splarka>	alex_21: anonymous cookies altering page content won't work well on Wikimedia, the front-end cache servers serve around 70,000 hits per second so must remain quite static
[23:23:58] <Splarka>	oops
[23:24:01] <freezey>	yksinaisyyteni: how would i convert it to MW's xml?
[23:24:26] <yksinaisyyteni>	by hand
[23:24:30] <yksinaisyyteni>	i don't think anything exists already which can do this
[23:24:38] <yksinaisyyteni>	(well not by hand, but using something you write yourself)
[23:24:48] <Splarka>	MW's XML is mostly a wrapper for the raw wikicode innit? with some parameters for dates, names, revision numbers?
[23:25:30] <freezey>	theres gotta be somebody that has done this before
[23:26:20] <yksinaisyyteni>	i don't see why, confluence is 10x better than mediawiki ;)
[23:26:33] <freezey>	yeah plus more money
[23:30:16] <Watkec>	ok I installed the ParserFunctions but I don't know how to "enable tidy" (nor can I find it by searching mediawiki).  The page loads much better now, HOWEVER, the sidebar overlays the article text (rather than being at the left) and the title overlays the tabs.  Anyone know what is causing that?
[23:30:42] <Splarka>	!tidy
[23:30:42] --mwbot--	Wikimedia uses HTML Tidy, which allows mixed html and wikitables inside parser functions and templates. This can often be confusing for people copying templates from Wikimedia projects. For more information about HTML Tidy, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy>. Note: RingtailedFox has seen this message a zillion times.
[23:31:10] <Splarka>	Watkec: tidy would probably solve that, but it sounds like bad wikicode/html tags
[23:31:34] <Splarka>	for example, an unclosed html tag inside another html tag, especially tables
[23:34:04] <Watkec>	yes i do need help
[23:36:11] <alex_21>	Sorry, I got disconnected
[23:51:55] <werdnum>	hello hello
[23:52:38] <Charitwo>	hiya
[23:53:53] *werdnum 	waves brion.
[23:54:02] <werdnum>	Should really have gone to sleep before 4...
[23:57:16] <atglenn>	yes you shoulda
[23:57:32] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44513 10/trunk/phase3/includes/AutoLoader.php: remove no longer needed line for Parser_OldPP (now banished!)
[23:57:38] <werdnum>	brion: I've been thinking about how to integrate Configure with our current setup at Wikimedia.
[23:59:28] <CIA-8>	03brion * r44514 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[23:59:28] <CIA-8>	* (bug 2391) A warning is now shown for invalid ISBN numbers on Special:Booksources.
[23:59:28] <CIA-8>	This could be called from the parser as well, but I'm a little hesitant just yet.
[23:59:28] <CIA-8>	Parser tests currently contain some bogus ISBN numbers which need to be replaced with
[23:59:29] <CIA-8>	legit ones... there's also the possibility that some books really are published with
[23:59:31] <CIA-8>	bad ISBNs... on the other hand, Amazon won't let you search for them. :)
[23:59:33] <CIA-8>	Plus the feedback as you're hitting preview might be nice... but it's also not clear