[00:01:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Relative URIs in interwiki links table causes failed redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18664  +comment (10greenreaper)
[00:49:18] <alarm>	hello, i have to contribute on a wiki that was set up by our university. creating pages and editing text works well. unfortunatelly i have problem with uploading images. I can upload images and put them full size in the main page (that works), but it does not work when i want to add a thumbnail on the side of an image (600x400px for example) 
[00:49:39] <alarm>	on the thumbnail frame i see an error stating: Error creating thumbnail: Unable to run external programs in safe mode.
[00:50:16] <alarm>	the command i am using to add an image and a thumbnail is: [[Image:someimage.jpg|thumb|some text]] 
[00:50:56] <pfruan>	clear
[00:51:57] <pfruan>	hi,all.is there any extension can dynamic refresh the category on the mainpage
[00:52:33] <Marybelle>	Maybe. What's the goal?
[00:53:56] <alarm>	am i asking maybe on the wrong channel ? :)
[00:55:26] <pfruan>	we use category foreach department of our company.so there is some news should refresh automatic
[00:55:32] <Skizzerz>	!safe_mode | alarm
[00:55:32] --mwbot--	alarm: safe_mode is an ill-concieved, broken-by-design setting in PHP that is supposed to make broken scripts safe. It was deprecated in PHP5 and removed in PHP6. MediaWiki can run with safe_mode enabled, but many of the advanced features will not work or need additional configuration (image thumbnailing using ImageMagick, for example). See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Safe_mode for more information.
[00:56:42] <alarm>	so thats something the administrator has to fix?
[00:56:48] <alarm>	fix/change
[00:56:58] <Skizzerz>	yes
[00:57:11] <Skizzerz>	linking them to that page will assist them in fixing it
[00:57:50] <alarm>	is there maybe anyother way of creating a thumbnail in a page and the thumbnail to redirect to an external site ? like an imagehosting site ?
[00:58:25] <alarm>	or what else could you suggest me ? i cannot put those huge diagrams in the mainpage next to the text
[00:58:29] <Skizzerz>	not that I know of... really the only way for a normal user to get smaller images to work in a safe_mode setting is to upload a smaller version of the image
[00:59:00] <alarm>	thats bad...
[00:59:12] <alarm>	alright, at least i know. i will report it 
[00:59:18] <Skizzerz>	you could probably also use javascript to call the thumbnailing script in order to get the correctly-scaled image as well, but you would need sysop access to the wiki
[00:59:18] <alarm>	thank you very much Skizzerz
[00:59:37] <alarm>	thats getting to complicated for me :)
[01:19:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) edittoken broken on test.wp when specifying json callback - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18662  (10herd)
[01:37:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) [[Special:Tags]] message shouldn't be hardcoded - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18668 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (p858snake)
[01:39:05] <Splarka>	hmmm, 18663 sure reminds me of a dupe
[01:40:12] <Splarka>	I know the code does it on purpose and I thought someone had complained about it before
[01:49:25] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) [[Special:Tags]] message shouldn't be hardcoded - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18668  +comment (10agarrett)
[01:50:27] <Marybelle>	werdna: Why are the tags using text for internal names?
[01:50:39] <Marybelle>	Instead of ID numbers.
[01:50:55] <werdna>	Why should they use IDs instead of text?
[01:51:14] <Marybelle>	Because text is gross? 
[01:51:18] <werdna>	Granted, I assumed that they'd be [A-Za-z0-9\-]+
[01:51:20] <Marybelle>	Things like question marks and quotation marks and ampersands are nasty.
[01:51:22] <werdna>	but oh well
[01:51:30] <Marybelle>	And is there a bug filed about not being able to track where tags came from?
[01:51:30] <werdna>	not if you know how to escape
[01:51:56] <Marybelle>	To be able to track where they came from, aren't ID numbers much simpler than text?
[01:52:16] <werdna>	why?
[01:52:19] <werdna>	I don't see anyr eason
[01:52:36] <Marybelle>	Diagnosing why a particular tag is on a specific edit.
[01:52:46] <Marybelle>	Becomes much more difficult when there are hundreds of filters.
[01:53:01] <werdna>	it might be sensible to have a search function.
[01:53:19] *Marybelle 	goes to file bugs.
[01:53:44] <werdna>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Tags
[01:53:48] <werdna>	third column hasn't been filled it
[01:53:55] <werdna>	it might be prudent to do so when one creates a tag
[01:54:28] <Marybelle>	Maybe. Relying on people is sorta bad, though.
[01:54:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) __NOGALLERY__ prevents categories from displaying the total number of pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18663  (10herd)
[01:55:42] <Marybelle>	werdna: Are the tags for edits permanent? (Will a tag be there six months from now or does it match RecentChanges?)
[01:56:01] <werdna>	it matches logid, revid and rcid
[01:56:04] <werdna>	so yes, it will stay
[01:56:08] <Marybelle>	Blehhhhhh.
[01:56:20] <werdna>	there's no reason to think that they're immutable, either.
[01:56:31] <werdna>	It's just that I haven't added a UI for changing them other than at edit time
[01:56:32] <Marybelle>	You mean there's a way to remove them?
[01:56:43] <Marybelle>	Yes, that's my next bug...
[01:56:45] <Splarka>	revision revision
[01:56:47] <werdna>	there isn't, but it's in theory very easy
[01:56:53] <Splarka>	and of course, a log of changes
[01:56:56] <Splarka>	and a way to change those logs
[01:56:59] <Splarka>	revision revision revision
[01:58:27] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Tag interface for end users is confusing and unintuitive - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18669 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (public)
[02:00:02] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Create ability to remove tags from edits / actions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18670 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (public)
[02:00:59] <p858snake>	you might want to add the ability to remove them pretty fast as some of those tags could easily been seen as defermation of character
[02:02:58] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Create "Tags" component in MediaWiki product in Bugzilla - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18671 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Bugzilla; (public)
[02:03:28] <Marybelle>	Hmmm.
[02:03:51] <Marybelle>	'bout to file one about finding where tags came from, but I'm not sure of a clean way to do it. Esp. if the tags don't come from AbuseFilter...
[02:04:45] <p858snake>	maybe if the tags were designed to link to some more descriptive page about it that could list information about it
[02:05:17] <Marybelle>	Well, they have a "full description" field: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Tags
[02:06:21] <p858snake>	yes but that dosn't help on the contribs page, it just shows their name atm
[02:07:02] <Marybelle>	Yes. I just filed a bug about that. :P
[02:08:28] <p858snake>	i'm intrested in that movies tag atm, i can't seem to see why someone would want it and out of the ones tagged on the first page i see only like one movie
[02:09:22] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Change Tags structure to use numeric IDs instead of text - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18672 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (public)
[02:11:28] <p858snake>	http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=48139 <lol </off topic>
[02:12:51] <Marybelle>	Heh.
[02:24:34] <Emufarmers>	You'd be surprised how many of those people end up asking for help on MW sites
[02:24:58] <Marybelle>	I wouldn't.
[02:25:07] <Emufarmers>	Spoilsport
[02:39:12] <Emufarmers>	http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:Script_And_Google_AdSense&curid=22301&diff=253038&oldid=220825 Now that's brave
[02:41:49] <Emufarmers>	http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:LouMessina&oldid=253055
[02:41:53] *Emufarmers 	's head explodes from the paradox
[02:41:54] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: if you're in that mood: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Monto
[02:42:15] <Emufarmers>	Splarka, yeah, I saw it, but I do RC from the end forward, so I'll get there eventually
[02:42:27] <Splarka>	heh
[02:43:15] <Splarka>	hmm
[02:43:27] <Splarka>	did you see, the other day an IP created a user page with {{delete}}
[02:43:42] <Emufarmers>	You must have gotten to it before I did
[02:43:58] <Splarka>	er, a user talk
[02:44:21] <Splarka>	nah, he did
[02:44:27] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:213.97.62.125&diff=252222&oldid=252219
[02:48:32] <Emufarmers>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_fork_a_MediaWiki_wiki :|
[02:49:06] <Marybelle>	Haha.
[02:49:10] <Marybelle>	I saw that on WR.
[02:49:22] <Splarka>	don't you love "[... here]" links
[02:49:26] <Emufarmers>	Oh?
[02:49:35] <Marybelle>	I have less of a problem with them than others do.
[02:49:49] <Marybelle>	They're nice to avoid sometimes, though they can make the writing style awkward.
[02:50:07] <Marybelle>	http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=24097
[02:50:45] <Skizzerz>	same author
[02:51:15] <Skizzerz>	but a pretty pointless page nevertheless...
[02:52:02] <Marybelle>	I think it's in the wrong namespace. Has potential, though.
[02:52:32] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:How_to_fork_a_MediaWiki_wiki
[02:52:39] <Splarka>	not Help: then, probably Manual:
[02:52:55] <Marybelle>	Right.
[02:53:05] <Emufarmers>	Marybelle: what potential is that?  This is already covered in the guides on exporting and importing
[02:53:19] <Marybelle>	Forking is different than generic importing / exporting.
[02:53:47] <Marybelle>	And that page deals a bit more specifically with Wikimedia wikis, which are their own animal.
[02:53:58] <Emufarmers>	In what way is it different?
[02:54:18] <Marybelle>	Most sites don't have publicly-available XML dumps.
[02:54:35] <Marybelle>	Or really large datasets.
[02:54:38] <Splarka>	but most pages are part of one
[02:54:49] <Emufarmers>	And...?  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps
[02:55:03] <Emufarmers>	It already talks about how to handle hueg datasets
[02:55:16] <Splarka>	out of 30 million articles tracked by s23.or, 20 million are on WMF wikis
[02:55:20] <Splarka>	.org
[02:55:32] <Splarka>	heh, and IIRC Wikia has XML dumps, or tries to
[02:55:57] <Splarka>	so out of 17,273 wikis, 11581 should have dumps
[02:57:22] <Emufarmers>	If you can't get a dump, you're going to have to do the export yourself, or do scraping; either way, there are going to be problems, and that's not really the sort of thing we should be offering advice on
[02:58:19] <Marybelle>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps is about a specific topic.
[02:58:40] <Marybelle>	Sure these pages can link to each other, but I see no problem offering a guide that does a broader outlook.
[02:58:59] <Marybelle>	[[MW:THERE'SPLENTYOFSPACEGODDAMNIT]]. Or something.
[03:02:30] <Emufarmers>	So what method of importations would your guide cover?
[03:02:37] <Emufarmers>	Er, methods of importation
[03:06:49] <Marybelle>	I'm not writing a guide.
[03:07:09] <Marybelle>	Though you'd want to focus on using mysqldump, maintenance scripts, and Special:Import.
[03:07:45] <Emufarmers>	Uh, how would you use mysqldump to fork a wiki?
[03:08:04] <Marybelle>	If you had a .dump file, you could just import the whole thing?
[03:08:43] <Emufarmers>	.sql or .sql.gz, generally; you wouldn't need a guide for that.  And you aren't likely to have it if you're actually forking
[03:09:49] <Emufarmers>	Still, maybe it'd be a good idea to move Manual:Importing XML dumps to Manual:Importing and add a line about importing SQL
[03:10:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Release MediaWiki 1.15 (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18629  (10tstarling)
[03:10:46] <Emufarmers>	A quarterly release only 3 months after the last one?  Blasphemy!
[03:10:59] <Splarka>	don't worry, it only has 2 months of changes
[03:11:15] <Splarka>	so it is technically a month late even if still 2 months early
[03:11:16] <TimStarling>	only one schema change
[03:11:50] <TimStarling>	if it wasn't for change tagging finally making it in, we would have had to change the UPGRADING file to say that you don't need a DB upgrade
[03:12:25] <Emufarmers>	Is there any documentation for that tagging?
[03:12:38] <TimStarling>	DefaultSettings.php?
[03:12:45] *Emufarmers 	looks
[03:12:55] <Marybelle>	I filed a few tags-related bugs today.
[03:16:50] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Prioritization system for flagged revisions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18673 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: FlaggedRevs; (cenarium.sysop)
[03:17:01] <TimStarling>	so... 12 revisions between 48811 and HEAD to SpecialBlockip.php by Aaron
[03:18:23] <Splarka>	which are livehacked in?
[03:18:30] <TimStarling>	most of them
[03:19:12] <Splarka>	and which deal with issues sites outside of WM will care about? are they mostly about global blocking with central auth?
[03:20:02] <TimStarling>	they're to do with user hiding, not global blocking
[03:20:21] <Splarka>	oop, so, viable...
[03:20:54] <Splarka>	ahh, dur, it was includes/specials/SpecialUserrights.php buggy with global groups
[03:21:05] <TimStarling>	but in a default install, nobody has the hideuser right
[03:22:21] <Emufarmers>	Do you ever plan on changing that?
[03:23:07] <TimStarling>	maybe
[03:23:28] <TimStarling>	it's not like wikimedia is the only wiki with vandals
[03:24:23] <Emufarmers>	$wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['deleterevision']  = true; should probably be uncommented when it's ready for use (if it isn't now)
[03:24:40] <TimStarling>	quite
[03:24:49] <Emufarmers>	and then the ones given to 'suppress' could probably be reasonably given to the bureaucrat in a default setup
[03:25:11] <TimStarling>	yes, there's no need to have an extra group by default
[03:37:41] <TimStarling>	ah, one problem
[03:37:55] <TimStarling>	the amount of interface clutter is terrible
[03:38:13] <Splarka>	amen!
[03:38:50] <Splarka>	religious phrase detected, may cause offense: (hide/show)
[03:38:52] <TimStarling>	hmmm
[03:40:19] <werdna>	TimStarling: IMO there you should explicitly turn on the show/hide
[03:40:22] <werdna>	i.e. have one link at the top
[03:40:27] <werdna>	"Hide revisions"
[03:40:37] <werdna>	and then when you click that link, it adds the clutter because you asked for it
[03:41:22] <Splarka>	that seems out of the scope of 1.15
[03:41:33] <Splarka>	...but a good argument for not enabling the feature yet by default
[03:41:52] <TimStarling>	well, I wasn't going to enable it for 1.15 anyway, I was just considering enabling it in trunk
[03:41:59] <Marybelle>	Eh.... nobody ever reads through DefaultSettings. If it's not on by default, nobody will find it.
[03:42:05] <p858snake>	is the Bad image list control via a db table?
[03:42:16] <TimStarling>	no
[03:42:23] <Marybelle>	p858snake: No. Interface message read on each save.
[03:42:29] <Marybelle>	Or render, I guess.
[03:42:41] <TimStarling>	maybe the diff interface can be hidden as well
[03:42:53] <werdna>	well, the interface message is cached.
[03:42:59] <werdna>	so it's not a huge deal
[03:43:07] <Marybelle>	It's still a stupid system. :P
[03:43:23] <werdna>	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkPWvBqu4cg <-- amusing video blog by some guy whose wikipedia page got deleted
[03:43:38] <werdna>	some things are suited to configuration by wiki pages
[03:43:50] <werdna>	wiki pages give you things like history and logging for free
[03:44:07] <Marybelle>	They also require constant maintenance.
[03:44:15] <Marybelle>	And storing the info as a giant blob.
[03:44:17] <Splarka>	mmm, memcache clutter
[03:44:36] <werdna>	I'm not sure we're running out of memcache space
[03:44:39] <Splarka>	(or more specifically msgcache)
[03:44:46] <werdna>	and if we are, we can just add new memcached servers
[03:44:52] <Marybelle>	Haha.
[03:45:00] <Splarka>	heh, well, domas sure felt the editnotices were doing a good job of running it out of space
[03:45:04] <Marybelle>	Right. Don't fix the problem, throw more hardware at it. ;-)
[03:45:07] <werdna>	it doesn't cost anything, because it uses unused RAM on apaches.
[03:45:16] <werdna>	(correct me if I'm wrong)
[03:45:25] <TimStarling>	give me a break
[03:45:36] <TimStarling>	100KB of bad image list versus 100GB of memcached space
[03:45:52] <p858snake>	but the bad image list the only thing that uses it
[03:46:01] <TimStarling>	it's really not an issue
[03:46:03] <Marybelle>	I was talking about filling it; I was referring to processing it on every view.
[03:46:13] <TimStarling>	have you looked at the profiling?
[03:46:18] <Marybelle>	Though Domas seems pretty strict about what can fill that 100 GB.
[03:46:23] <TimStarling>	it's not a problem
[03:46:52] <werdna>	Maybe the problem wasn't the space taken up, but something else.
[03:47:04] <Marybelle>	Right.
[03:47:13] <werdna>	I don't remember the precise circumstances
[03:47:26] <Marybelle>	Having all editnotice messages load on every page view or something.
[03:48:03] <werdna>	yes, I think the message cache is stored as one blob.
[03:48:10] <werdna>	Although I'm not sure.
[03:49:06] <Marybelle>	The broader issue of using interface messages for configuration is the real problem. (Which most people realize.)
[03:51:43] <werdna>	It's a hacky kinda thing, but it doesn't need addressing immediately.
[03:51:53] <werdna>	It doesn't cause any problems except that it sucks as a UI
[03:52:20] <Marybelle>	Right. Tendency of hacks to stick around forever, esp. non-fatal ones. ;-)
[03:54:06] <werdna>	Brion and I and probably Tim and others have mused on plenty of things, but nobody ever gets around to fixing them
[03:54:24] <werdna>	I think Tim and I were discussing a better configuration system a few weeks ago.
[03:56:53] <TimStarling>	the message cache is not stored in one blob anymore
[03:57:09] <TimStarling>	so the recommended limitations on bad image list size could probably be relaxed
[03:57:30] <TimStarling>	the smaller messages are stored in the main blob, and large messages are stored in separate blobs
[03:57:40] <TimStarling>	well, if they can be called blobs...
[03:57:52] <TimStarling>	let's say entries
[03:58:41] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) History page excessively cluttered, esp. with suppressrevision - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18674 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: History/Diffs; (tstarling)
[03:59:44] <werdna>	mm, comparison radio buttons are rarely used
[04:00:03] <werdna>	IMO we should use a table wherever possible for that kind of thing
[04:03:13] <Emufarmers>	werdna: successful troll is successful (re: chris-chan)
[04:04:18] <werdna>	yeah
[04:06:05] <Marybelle>	He's allegedly in #wikipedia right now...
[04:06:22] <Emufarmers>	Heh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ChrisChanSonichu it's funny to see the trolls flocking to egg him on
[04:06:34] <Marybelle>	You know what's never used? Those protection list selectors.
[04:06:40] <Marybelle>	I don't even know what kind of HTML that is.
[04:06:50] <werdna>	what?
[04:07:45] <TimStarling>	you mean in action=protect?
[04:07:48] <Marybelle>	Yes.
[04:08:15] <Marybelle>	<tr><td> inside <fieldset>. Interesting.
[04:09:08] <werdna>	that's how every form in MediaWiki is formatted, isn't it?
[04:09:34] <TimStarling>	so you mean the semi-protection feature?
[04:09:46] <TimStarling>	three-way selection boxes for edit and move?
[04:09:51] <werdna>	oh, that
[04:09:56] <Marybelle>	Yes. What UserRights used to use.
[04:09:58] <Marybelle>	Sort of.
[04:10:09] <Marybelle>	It's rarely seen on the Web.
[04:12:03] <Marybelle>	Yeah, the protection form still sucks.
[04:12:16] <Marybelle>	Other time shouldn't appear unless you select it from "Expires:".
[04:12:21] <TimStarling>	it's a <select> with a size attribute
[04:12:30] <TimStarling>	if you leave off the size attribute, you get a drop-down list
[04:12:43] <Marybelle>	A drop-down list would be much better in my opinion.
[04:12:46] <Marybelle>	It's goofy and unintuitive currently.
[04:12:57] <Marybelle>	I always end up putting the reason in the Other time field.
[04:13:11] <Splarka>	sounds like a personal problem
[04:13:18] <Marybelle>	Sounds like bad design.
[04:13:36] <Marybelle>	There's no reason to have a space to fill in Other time if infinite is selected by default.
[04:13:44] <Splarka>	no pun? that was an easy one "no, sounds like a personnel problem!"
[04:13:55] <TimStarling>	well, the reason to have it is that you can type a time into it
[04:14:01] *Splarka 	dislikes the 'time' dropdowns immensely
[04:14:11] <TimStarling>	and there's javascript to automatically switch the dropdown to "other time" when you start typing
[04:14:14] <Marybelle>	Sure, but a little JavaScript could hide it for most users.
[04:14:17] <Splarka>	never actually saves me time to find the time 
[04:14:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Parser Cache's {{SERVER}} becomes "localhost" with maintenance scripts - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18274  (10jidanni)
[04:14:37] <TimStarling>	to say there's no reason is incorrect, it's a shortcut for people who use "other time" a lot
[04:15:25] <Marybelle>	It could match the comment section and be "other time" by default with an option to select a specific time.
[04:15:32] <TimStarling>	I think the real problem is that it's big, and the comment box and submit button are way down the page
[04:15:43] <TimStarling>	that's your real problem isn't it?
[04:15:47] <Marybelle>	Yes.
[04:16:39] <Splarka>	ditch the time dropdowns, ditch the silly separation of expiry for move/edit, all is good
[04:16:50] <Marybelle>	The separate expiry is incredibly helpful.
[04:16:55] <Splarka>	^IMGL^H^HHO
[04:16:55] <TimStarling>	well, they're all features obviously
[04:17:11] <TimStarling>	features that were regularly requested
[04:17:22] <Splarka>	so is per/page per/user protection
[04:17:28] <Splarka>	"block just these users at this level"
[04:17:28] <TimStarling>	protection expiry, move protection and semi-protection
[04:17:30] <werdna>	The UI could be improved, though
[04:17:32] <Marybelle>	Putting semi-protection on a noticeboard temporarily only to have it suddenly expire and have the noticeboard moved to HAGGER sucked.
[04:17:45] <Marybelle>	Semi-protection can be removed entirely. Nasty kludge.
[04:17:54] <Marybelle>	Or improved.
[04:18:06] <Marybelle>	Either will do.
[04:18:06] <Splarka>	that is your opinion, my opinion is contrary, the best solution is no change
[04:18:22] <Marybelle>	Right. If it's broken and multiple people complain, just ignore the problem.
[04:18:32] <TimStarling>	well yeah, such ideas wouldn't last two seconds on WP:AN before being shot down by half a dozen admins
[04:18:36] <werdna>	what's wrong with it?
[04:18:42] <Marybelle>	It sucks.
[04:18:53] <werdna>	can you be a bit vaguer please?
[04:18:55] <Marybelle>	It blocks legitimate editors while allowing illegitimate editors.
[04:18:57] <TimStarling>	Marybelle, I think you should try to think of solutions that won't piss off so many people
[04:19:19] <Marybelle>	TimStarling: There's a bug filed, consensus gathered, and it's awaiting one of you sysadmins to turn it on. ;-)
[04:19:31] <werdna>	Marybelle: eh?
[04:19:31] <Marybelle>	I did my part.
[04:19:35] <Splarka>	"If it's broken".. returns false for me
[04:19:35] <TimStarling>	for what?
[04:19:37] <werdna>	a consensus for what?
[04:19:44] <Marybelle>	Flagged protection and patrolled revisions.
[04:19:48] <Marybelle>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18244
[04:19:58] <TimStarling>	oh, I thought you meant removing semi-protection because it sucks
[04:20:27] <Marybelle>	Well, it does. And it should be improved. But one step in that direction is finding a suitable replacement, like flagged protection.
[04:20:30] <p858snake>	well that too >.>
[04:20:36] <Marybelle>	And re-adjusting the metrics for it.
[04:21:01] <werdna>	We'd definitely have to check with Brion and probably Erik on that.
[04:21:09] <Splarka>	ugh
[04:21:12] <TimStarling>	what is flagged protection?
[04:21:14] <Marybelle>	The 10 edits requirement is simply stupid and trivially defeatable.
[04:21:17] <werdna>	well, check with Brion, who would check with Erik.
[04:21:28] <Splarka>	lemme recycle this for Flagged Revisions:  <TimStarling> the amount of interface clutter is terrible
[04:21:30] <werdna>	TimStarling: It's their way of saying FlaggedRevs, but opt-in per article.
[04:21:34] <Marybelle>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revisions
[04:21:42] <TimStarling>	oh, right
[04:21:44] <Splarka>	except you get UI clutter even on regular article views
[04:21:46] <Marybelle>	Yes, pretty much what Werd said.
[04:21:56] <TimStarling>	that's hardly going to declutter things is it?
[04:22:00] <TimStarling>	it's changing the subject
[04:22:10] <Marybelle>	Splarka: The solution isn't to never add new features. It's to fix the interface to not suck.
[04:22:22] <Splarka>	yah, good luck with that
[04:22:37] <Marybelle>	Eh, there's an entire project working on it. I have a bit of faith.
[04:22:52] <Marybelle>	(The Usability project has mock-ups of a cleaner interface in certain areas.)
[04:23:07] <Marybelle>	Esp. reducing tab clutter and cleaning up the edit view.
[04:23:27] <werdna>	ye of little faith
[04:23:41] <TimStarling>	don't you want to talk about the protection interface?
[04:23:44] <Splarka>	more features, less interface...
[04:23:45] <Marybelle>	I completely agree that the current FlaggedRevs &action=view interface sucks.
[04:23:50] <Splarka>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh
[04:23:59] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Create "game" namespace on Hebrew Wikisource - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18675 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: wikibugs; (erelsgl)
[04:24:08] <TimStarling>	I'm making a mockup of your changes in firebug but all you want to do is rant about 100 little things
[04:24:27] <Marybelle>	Did you include drop-downs?
[04:24:32] <TimStarling>	yes
[04:24:35] <Marybelle>	Yay.
[04:24:37] *Splarka 	misses the 1.7 era protect form
[04:24:48] <TimStarling>	so do you want to change something or find some more things to rant about?
[04:25:09] <Marybelle>	Both sound fun.
[04:25:52] <Marybelle>	Perhaps the move options don't need to be visible at all until the checkbox is ticked?
[04:25:57] <Marybelle>	Or is that more unintuitive?
[04:26:09] <Splarka>	sometimes you just have to think outside the box of the decade or century you are trapped in: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/02/google_hires_goats/
[04:26:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create "game" namespace on Hebrew Wikisource - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18675  +comment (10p858snake)
[04:26:12] <Marybelle>	Saves screen space to hide them.
[04:26:14] <TimStarling>	I have an idea, but I wanted to explore yours first
[04:26:38] <Marybelle>	"Allow all users", etc. should be in a drop-down next to "Protection level:"
[04:26:47] <Marybelle>	Like "Expires" is currently.
[04:27:14] <Marybelle>	I would keep Move in its own fieldset and make everything but the checkbox visible until the checkbox is checked.
[04:27:45] <TimStarling>	firefox should have a screenshot feature
[04:27:51] <Splarka>	ugh, JS reliance, so what would it look like without JS? pretty much the same but with unsized selects?
[04:27:58] <Marybelle>	Yes.
[04:28:08] <Emufarmers>	Does it work as it is without JS?
[04:28:09] <Marybelle>	If you don't have JavaScript, things are uglier. Life sucks.
[04:28:34] <Marybelle>	Emufarmers: It should.
[04:28:57] <p858snake>	TimStarling: extenstion, screengrab
[04:29:04] <p858snake>	does a excellent job at it
[04:29:17] <Splarka>	the only thing that doesn't currently is upload-by-url (and some extensions, like SecurePoll admin interface), and that is fixed in the branch
[04:29:20] <Marybelle>	Wait, what? The protection interface is viewable as an anon?
[04:29:28] <Marybelle>	That's stupid.
[04:29:49] <Marybelle>	Someone should fix that too.
[04:30:00] <TimStarling>	no time for mucking around with extensions right now
[04:30:10] <p858snake>	Marybelle: just go on a bug reporting fenzy
[04:30:16] <p858snake>	*frenzy
[04:30:24] <Emufarmers>	doo eet
[04:30:24] <Marybelle>	I did once already today. I'm afraid of a stabbing frenzy. :-(
[04:30:31] <TimStarling>	http://tstarling.com/stuff/mzprotect.png
[04:30:51] <TimStarling>	that basically what you're thinking?
[04:31:14] <Marybelle>	There's no place to entire the expiry now...
[04:31:16] <Marybelle>	s/entire/enter/
[04:31:19] <Marybelle>	Yes, better. I would label the first drop-down, though.
[04:31:24] <werdna>	that
[04:31:27] <werdna>	is much better
[04:31:41] <TimStarling>	the expiry box would appear if you selected "other time" in the drop down
[04:31:48] <TimStarling>	ignore the fact that it's already selected
[04:31:52] <Marybelle>	And perhaps make the move fieldset float next to the edit fieldset if the window is wide (CSS3?).
[04:32:21] <TimStarling>	here's my idea: a task-based interface
[04:32:21] <p858snake>	cascading settings should also be in a box
[04:33:02] <TimStarling>	start with a drop-down list at the top, with options like: protect, semi-protect, move-protect, unprotect
[04:33:20] <TimStarling>	protect with expiry, even
[04:33:41] <TimStarling>	then if "protect" is selected, the semi-protection stuff can be hidden, and you can have an interface like MW 1.5
[04:33:52] <Marybelle>	Hmm.
[04:34:08] <TimStarling>	my problem with the screenshot is that it's still massive
[04:34:19] <Marybelle>	Yes, that's why I think multiple columns would be better.
[04:34:27] <TimStarling>	it's vertically massive, and if you put the two boxes side-by-side, it becomes horizontally massive instead
[04:34:48] <Marybelle>	Or make the move options hidden until the box is checked.
[04:34:52] <TimStarling>	and either way, horizontal or vertical, there's still a lot to take in
[04:35:31] <Marybelle>	The fieldsets are adding a lot of padding below and above.
[04:35:45] <TimStarling>	yes, it needs to be tightened up a bit
[04:35:58] <TimStarling>	I don't think the fieldsets are the problem, I think it's the tables
[04:36:08] <TimStarling>	but a bit of CSS tweaking would fix it either way
[04:36:23] <Marybelle>	Yes.
[04:36:49] <TimStarling>	so in my idea, instead of "unlock move permissions", that would basically be an option in the drop-down
[04:36:56] <TimStarling>	and the whole move box would be missing
[04:37:26] <Marybelle>	So you'd select "move protection" to be able to set both edit and move protection?
[04:37:40] <TimStarling>	you get that there's a tradeoff between simplicity for new users and convenience for power-users, right?
[04:38:04] <Marybelle>	Admins are rarely new users. But, yes, I understand the trade-off.
[04:38:12] <TimStarling>	I think it would be possible to have an option like "advanced settings", and get an interface like what we have now
[04:38:47] <TimStarling>	that's only true for established public wikis
[04:38:54] <werdna>	let's add a preference to disable advanced options
[04:38:55] *werdna 	hides
[04:39:02] <TimStarling>	it's certainly not true on wikia, and it's not true on private wikis
[04:39:03] <Marybelle>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hfsdjfksdlfj?action=protect Definitely too much padding.
[04:39:10] <Marybelle>	Fair enough.
[04:39:52] <TimStarling>	but we should look at the usual things that admins do with the protection interface, and try to make streamlined ways of doing them
[04:40:06] <TimStarling>	so it hopefully won't be necessary to use the massive cluttered interface all the time
[04:40:14] *Marybelle 	nods.
[04:41:46] <Emufarmers>	Full-protect, semi-protect, semi-protect with full move protection, and full move protection; what else is there?
[04:42:02] <puzzlet_>	no protection apparently
[04:42:12] <TimStarling>	full protect is a nice term
[04:42:58] <Emufarmers>	Wouldn't "no protection" only be an issue if you're approaching it through action=unprotect?
[04:43:20] <TimStarling>	I was thinking along the lines of: full protect, full protect with expiry, semi-protect, semi-protect with expiry
[04:43:21] <Emufarmers>	which you could have a different set of usual actions for
[04:43:45] <TimStarling>	and the definition of semi-protect would be extended to include move-only protection
[04:43:57] <TimStarling>	so semi-protect would basically be your advanced interface
[04:44:25] <TimStarling>	yeah, when there's protection already then "unprotect" should be the initially selected task
[04:44:38] <TimStarling>	unprotect would just need a reason, that would be it
[04:45:02] <Emufarmers>	What do you mean, extended to include move-only protection?
[04:45:10] <werdna>	maybe you could rename it to partial protection
[04:45:20] <TimStarling>	right, call it something else to avoid confusion
[04:45:45] <TimStarling>	selecting "partial protection" would give you all the options you have now
[04:46:01] <TimStarling>	whereas "full protection" would automatically give both move and edit protection
[04:46:23] <TimStarling>	with matching expiries, if you select the expire option
[04:46:59] <Emufarmers>	I thought somebody said having the expiries separate was a good thing?
[04:47:37] <Marybelle>	It is.
[04:47:45] <Marybelle>	A very good thing to have separate expiries.
[04:47:52] <TimStarling>	if the different sorts of protection expire at different times, then at some point it's going to be partial protection
[04:47:59] <TimStarling>	so it makes sense to put it in that category
[04:48:32] <TimStarling>	especially if "full protection with expiry" is a common task
[04:48:46] <TimStarling>	if it's not, then maybe that task could be omitted
[04:49:41] <TimStarling>	then we'd just have "unprotect, fully protect, partially protect, protect with expiry"
[04:49:51] <Emufarmers>	Is "semi-protection with full move protection" or "full move protection" a common task?
[04:50:31] <TimStarling>	on wikipedia, it probably is
[04:50:39] <TimStarling>	but wikipedian admins can deal with the complex interface
[04:51:12] <TimStarling>	are you saying there should be per-wiki profiles?
[04:51:17] <TimStarling>	that would be pretty cool
[04:51:48] <Emufarmers>	Um, are you talking to yourself? :p
[04:52:20] <TimStarling>	all 4 lines or just the last two?
[04:52:22] <Marybelle>	Per-wiki profiles? Per-user would be cool. 
[04:52:24] <Emufarmers>	Last two
[04:52:42] <Splarka>	hey, IIRC, you can revert to an earlier version of an uploaded file if you have permission to edit the description page, shouldn't that be restricted to 'reupload' (if not yours) or 'reupload-own' (if yours) ?
[04:52:53] <TimStarling>	well, you were implying that it's a common task on the english wikipedia, right?
[04:53:04] <Emufarmers>	I was asking whether it was, but yeah,
[04:53:11] <TimStarling>	Marybelle: per-wiki profiles would be an expression of policy
[04:53:37] <Marybelle>	If you're talking about efficiency for power users, per-user profiles are .. something.
[04:53:44] <TimStarling>	the en.wp policy geeks could invent names for them
[04:53:48] <Emufarmers>	Are there enough possible common cases to make it worthwhile?
[04:53:58] <TimStarling>	like PL for protection level, then PL1 to PL5
[04:54:04] <Marybelle>	Haha.
[04:54:10] <Marybelle>	That simply encourages stupidity.
[04:54:23] <Marybelle>	"We need a PL5 on the TFA, stat!"
[04:54:50] <Emufarmers>	I mean, there's a rather limited set of possible arrangements you can have here
[04:55:11] <TimStarling>	Marybelle: they'd love it
[04:55:29] <Marybelle>	They would.
[04:55:37] <Emufarmers>	Then again
[04:55:40] <TimStarling>	inventing languages makes them feel special
[04:55:50] <Marybelle>	Have you ever seen the CheckUser request page? I kid you not it uses code letters.
[04:55:51] <Emufarmers>	the possible protection actions are technically configurable
[04:56:17] <Emufarmers>	So in theory different sites could have more, but...
[04:56:33] <TimStarling>	profiles could be done with <optgroup>
[04:57:26] <TimStarling>	like the way we break up the reason dropdown
[04:57:56] <TimStarling>	you could have an optgroup for basic actions like protect and unprotect, then a second for site-defined policy profiles, then a third for user-defined profiles
[04:58:25] <Emufarmers>	Could you give an example of what one of those profiles might actually include?
[04:59:10] <werdna>	I should sleep soon
[04:59:17] <werdna>	10pm and I've had 10 hours in the last 3 days
[04:59:29] <TimStarling>	current event: semi-protection expires 7 days, move protection expires 6 months, reason box autofilled
[04:59:31] <p858snake>	so when doing forms and such, tables the best way to neatly line up the forms and such?
[04:59:47] <Emufarmers>	Hmm, ok, I can see it now
[05:00:17] <werdna>	p858snake: I'm actually a fan of using definition lists for that
[05:00:25] <werdna>	but in MediaWiki the convention is tables.
[05:00:26] <TimStarling>	p858snake: the web installer uses floating divs
[05:00:40] <TimStarling>	with fixed-width <label> elements
[05:00:47] <TimStarling>	they float too
[05:01:06] <TimStarling>	it's actually quite hard to implement, it does work though
[05:01:14] <TimStarling>	but tables work too
[05:02:07] <TimStarling>	the problem with making everything float is that then you have to add clear styles everywhere to stop overlaps
[05:02:45] <TimStarling>	and that can easily mess up the rest of your layout, if there is any other floating going on
[05:02:53] <Marybelle>	I like tables.
[05:02:57] <Marybelle>	Floating is annoying.
[05:03:19] <Marybelle>	Putting things in cells is easy and makes sense.
[05:03:25] <werdna>	you're "supposed" to use floating elements, but in reality forms are just as much tabular data as anything else.
[05:03:35] <werdna>	Column 1 = Label
[05:03:37] <werdna>	Column 2 = Field
[05:03:41] <werdna>	it's certainly tabular
[05:04:16] <TimStarling>	I think there were a few advocates of tableless design who went a bit too far
[05:04:35] <werdna>	I can understand wanting menus and things out of tables
[05:04:42] <TimStarling>	the CSS spec doesn't make tables illegal, in fact it makes them more versatile than ever
[05:04:52] <werdna>	but it's entirely appropriate to ue them for forms imo
[05:05:33] <TimStarling>	the only problem with tables is that they don't rearrange themselves in clever ways when the window is small
[05:06:00] <TimStarling>	the web installer does that, it'll put the label on one line and the field on the other, if you make the window tiny
[05:06:15] <Marybelle>	Heh.
[05:07:52] <werdna>	That's one of the advantages of using definition lists, IMO
[05:08:55] <TimStarling>	I don't know why you'd want a definition list over a div
[05:09:22] <TimStarling>	you'd have to aggressively style it anyway, making sure to override the default style that's used for wikitext
[05:09:48] <TimStarling>	is there something special about them that I'm missing?
[05:10:31] *werdna 	shrugs.
[05:10:52] <werdna>	It appeals to me that the label is the term, and the input is the definition
[05:11:01] <TimStarling>	ah right
[05:11:01] <werdna>	anyway, I need to sleep
[05:11:03] <p858snake>	the only issue most poeple had with tables were that people designed pages in them and browsers wern't designed to handle that neatly
[05:11:10] <TimStarling>	say semantic, it'll be funny
[05:11:20] <werdna>	!hesaidsemantic
[05:11:20] --mwbot--	http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/576/hesaidsemanticga2.jpg
[05:11:22] <werdna>	goodnight
[05:11:29] <TimStarling>	night
[05:42:02] <p858snake>	you know what would be cool, if the bad image list was kinda more like http://localhostr.com/files/6eb04f/badfilelist.jpeg (imaginging that each of those boxes was a popup type thing) </personal view>
[06:08:57] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) RevisionDelete invalidates the cache for large numbers of pages unnecessarily - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18676 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Deleting; (tstarling)
[06:19:20] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Give proper error message when viewing &action=protect without sufficient rights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18677 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (public)
[06:21:59] <Nikerabbit>	morning
[06:22:46] <Marybelle>	Morning.
[06:26:34] <p858snake>	afternoon.
[06:26:50] <puzzlet_>	timezone.
[06:35:06] <ThomasV_>	morning
[06:35:29] <ThomasV_>	morning wins! 2-1!
[06:36:09] <Splarka>	night.
[06:36:37] <Splarka>	not good night, just good evening only later, so, good night, not as a ... oh nevermind... evening
[06:37:47] <TimStarling>	the hide user option is a bit crazy
[06:38:01] <Marybelle>	How so?
[06:38:09] <TimStarling>	hang on I'll do a screenshot
[06:38:26] <TimStarling>	maybe I should install that screenshot extension now
[06:41:37] <TimStarling>	http://tstarling.com/stuff/block-user.png
[06:42:00] <Marybelle>	You mean putting it in the block form?
[06:42:11] <TimStarling>	see, you get this checkbox, sandwiched between the email and watch options
[06:42:18] <TimStarling>	so in case you missed it, it's bold
[06:42:32] <Marybelle>	Oh, haha. It's bold by default?
[06:42:41] <TimStarling>	yes
[06:43:37] <TimStarling>	clicking it, then clicking block, will, without further confirmation, hide all the user's edits (even from sysops), delete the user and user talk page, suppress the deletion logs and prevent sysops from seeing the deleted pages
[06:43:52] <Marybelle>	Yes.
[06:44:04] <Marybelle>	Perhaps it should get its own page?
[06:44:20] <Marybelle>	Using the block form (and using log_action="block") is rather disgusting.
[06:44:34] <Marybelle>	Or log_action="reblock" as the case usually is.
[06:44:41] <TimStarling>	I can see why, from a process perspective, it makes sense for it to be there
[06:45:14] <TimStarling>	but you have to admit it's a bit extreme for something so innocuously labelled
[06:45:25] <Marybelle>	Sending users into the oblivion is far different from blocking them. 
[06:46:25] <Marybelle>	Right. So you'd put it somewhere else.
[06:46:52] <TimStarling>	maybe there could be a link from the block page, so that we don't have to add another user tool link
[06:46:58] <Marybelle>	And make it clearer that it does more than simply hiding the user from Special:LIstUsers...
[06:48:17] <Marybelle>	A generic Special:Suppress page doesn't seem unreasonable.
[06:54:34] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[06:54:46] <TimStarling>	I'm filing a bug report
[06:54:55] <Marybelle>	Okay.
[06:55:21] <Nikerabbit>	couldn't we do all the user tool links with javascript popups or something
[06:55:35] <Marybelle>	Still need a non-JS fallback.
[06:56:55] <Nikerabbit>	Marybelle: why?
[06:57:13] <Marybelle>	For the children. Think of the children.
[06:57:26] <Marybelle>	Core features always include non-JS fallbacks.
[06:57:42] <Nikerabbit>	the fallback is to click the user link and find the correct action there
[06:58:12] <Marybelle>	Which "user tool links" are you talking about?
[06:58:24] <Marybelle>	And what do you propose to replace them (for JS users and non-JS users)?
[06:59:17] <Nikerabbit>	Marybelle: nothing for non-js users, some kind of popup for js users
[06:59:48] <Marybelle>	!ask | Killiondude 
[06:59:48] --mwbot--	Killiondude: Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. See also: !gethelp
[07:00:07] <Killiondude>	9_9 Thanks
[07:00:23] <Marybelle>	Nikerabbit: Which links are you talking about?
[07:00:47] <Nikerabbit>	For Nike (talk • block • block log • logs • deleted user contributions • user rights management)
[07:00:51] <Killiondude>	Would the pop ups js work on other wikis?
[07:01:05] <CIA-15>	03catrope * r50161 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQuerySiteinfo.php: Fix up r50126: dump $wgDBtype rather than a class name, per CR comment
[07:01:29] <Marybelle>	Nikerabbit: Some sort of expandable thing would be better, I think.
[07:01:44] <Marybelle>	Where you click it, it expands to show the other links. For non-JS users, it shows them all by default.
[07:02:10] <Marybelle>	Killiondude: Different thing.
[07:02:35] <Killiondude>	:-(
[07:02:44] <Nikerabbit>	Marybelle: like http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&translations=filter&cleanrc=1 ?
[07:03:09] <Marybelle>	Nikerabbit: Yep, pretty much.
[07:04:10] <Marybelle>	Maybe include a slide transition or a way to "un-click," but that's the general idea.
[07:04:18] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) action=opensearch documentation in API help shows "format -" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18003  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[07:04:30] <Nikerabbit>	I don't understand why we should provide worse experience for users without javascript
[07:04:49] <Marybelle>	I would say worse is not having the links at all.
[07:05:05] <Marybelle>	There's no real harm in the extra links except clutter.
[07:05:20] <Marybelle>	There is harm in removing the links entirely.
[07:06:03] <Nikerabbit>	Marybelle: you are totally unestimating the bad effects of clutter
[07:06:21] <Nikerabbit>	under
[07:06:24] <Marybelle>	Perhaps.
[07:07:07] <fahadsadah>	TimStarling: Ping.
[07:07:16] <TimStarling>	yes?
[07:07:40] <fahadsadah>	Please can I be unbanned from #wikimedia-tech?
[07:08:33] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) "Hide user" checkbox on Special:Block does not convey the gravity of that action - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18678 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Blocking; (tstarling)
[07:09:09] <TimStarling>	yes
[07:09:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) edittoken broken on test.wp when specifying json callback - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18662  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[07:09:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API parse results differ when JSON callback is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16616  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[07:10:00] <TimStarling>	done
[07:10:07] <fahadsadah>	Thanks!
[07:10:11] <TimStarling>	did you annoy domas somehow?
[07:10:16] <TimStarling>	ask for a feature or something?
[07:10:38] <Marybelle>	!-log test.
[07:10:38] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "-log".
[07:10:55] <fahadsadah>	Yeah, that. I thought it would fail.
[07:11:16] <TimStarling>	right
[07:11:20] <Marybelle>	Wikimedia's view on security is to allow people to do whatever they want and then ban them when they do something wrong.
[07:11:26] <Marybelle>	You see this on-wiki and on IRC.
[07:12:11] <TimStarling>	actually it's just because domas was too lazy to add access controls to his bot
[07:12:14] <Marybelle>	Though I give credit for a shift from this attitude with things like the AbuseFilter, which tries to warn before banning.
[07:12:29] <TimStarling>	and he justified it on the basis that he could just block anyone who used it inappropriately
[07:12:47] <Marybelle>	Much like people can vandalize a wiki page because an admin can ban them.
[07:13:05] <TimStarling>	that's a bit different
[07:13:13] <TimStarling>	logging in the server admin log is irreversible
[07:13:33] <TimStarling>	with vandalism, you can just revert and put a welcome message on their page
[07:13:36] <fahadsadah>	Sorry.
[07:13:38] <TimStarling>	which is what wikipedia has always done
[07:13:46] <Marybelle>	In what sense? The entries can be removed, just not by a normal user.
[07:13:57] <TimStarling>	from twitter?
[07:14:03] <Marybelle>	Oh. 
[07:14:15] <TimStarling>	and even removing from the server admin log is a PITA
[07:14:19] <Splarka>	hey
[07:14:20] <Marybelle>	And "a bit different" doesn't have the same level of rhetoric.
[07:14:24] <TimStarling>	if someone does a test edit on wikipedia, they can remove it themselves
[07:14:26] <Splarka>	that last roan bugzilla edit, that was a duping
[07:14:31] <Splarka>	why no (DUP) ?
[07:14:55] <TimStarling>	maybe (mod) took precedence
[07:14:57] <Marybelle>	TimStarling: With the added microblogging, it's even more important to have safeguards on it, you're right.
[07:15:34] <Marybelle>	Unless the wikimedia-tech Twitter feed wants HAGGER? on it...
[07:16:10] <fahadsadah>	Lol.
[07:17:21] <fahadsadah>	Where's the feed?
[07:17:31] <Marybelle>	http://identi.ca/wikimediatech
[07:17:42] <Marybelle>	http://twitter.com/wikimediatech
[07:17:47] <fahadsadah>	Thanks.
[07:19:15] <fahadsadah>	What's this new Tag Filter I've been seeing around WP?
[07:19:55] <TimStarling>	AbuseFilter can be configured to add a tag to an edit when the edit matches a rule
[07:20:09] <fahadsadah>	Oh.
[07:20:09] <TimStarling>	then you can search for that tag
[07:20:16] <TimStarling>	so you can find all page blankings or whatever
[07:20:31] <Marybelle>	Don't worry, fahadsadah, nobody else knows why the tags are there either.
[07:21:01] <fahadsadah>	That's OK then :P
[07:24:01] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Firsfron#NOTICE_OF_WITHDRAWAL
[07:27:15] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Loonymonkey&diff=prev&oldid=286554210
[07:28:19] <Splarka>	amusing troll is amusing
[07:28:41] <Marybelle>	What in God's name...
[07:29:12] <Splarka>	I dunno, I had his page on my watchlist per the earlier section, heh
[07:31:42] <Marybelle>	Did you see the bug about user names with double underscores?
[07:33:30] <Splarka>	my eyes glazed over
[07:42:25] <Splarka>	hmm, are they like the namespacealias prefixed names, in that they can log in and edit but not be blocked? I'd assume they are just useless
[07:57:40] <TimStarling>	meld.sf.net is kind of cool, I should use it more often
[07:58:47] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50162 10/branches/REL1_15/phase3/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[07:58:47] <CIA-15>	Backports for the hide user feature:
[07:58:47] <CIA-15>	* r48886/r48892: suppress log entries where the target is the user page
[07:58:47] <CIA-15>	* r49191/r49192: don't suppress the suppress log
[07:58:47] <CIA-15>	* r49222: suppress RC entries
[07:58:48] <CIA-15>	* r49685: pretend that hide-user is a block by making Special:IPBlocklist submit undo it.
[07:58:52] <CIA-15>	* r49730: don't destroy the archive table
[08:00:58] <Splarka>	are you going to forward port the back porting, or leave it as a pregression (a pre-existing regression, whereby a future feature will later get removed since it was already never there)?
[08:03:16] <TimStarling>	you can't forward port a backport, it's already there
[08:06:33] <Splarka>	so you just backported it exactly as it is in trunk?
[08:08:54] <TimStarling>	sometimes I only backported parts of the diffs
[08:09:10] <TimStarling>	but there's still nothing to forward port, I was just omitting changes from the backport
[08:09:32] <Splarka>	ahh, it just seemed after all your ranting above that you disagreed with what it did for the most part... heh
[08:10:00] <Marybelle>	The hide user feature is rather stupid overall.
[08:10:36] <Marybelle>	Though with user pages and logs either way, I suppose RenameUser is no better.
[08:11:01] <TimStarling>	it won't do much harm if it's off by default
[08:11:25] <TimStarling>	I've marked r49742 as a possible revert, it's not live on wikimedia yet afaik
[08:11:47] <fahadsadah>	Who gets +hideuser?
[08:11:49] <fahadsadah>	Checkusers?
[08:12:02] <Marybelle>	Oversighters on WMF wikis.
[08:12:04] <TimStarling>	and obviously it was better to backport than to leave it
[08:12:24] <fahadsadah>	Marybelle: That's what I meant.
[08:12:27] <TimStarling>	it's better to have a good implementation of a bad concept than a bad implementation of a bad concept
[08:12:58] <Marybelle>	You're limiting the options.
[08:12:58] <Splarka>	zen
[08:13:16] <Marybelle>	...which makes it easy to steer the conclusion whichever way you want.
[08:14:41] <TimStarling>	hehe
[08:15:08] <TimStarling>	if I just rewrote everyone's code, reviewing would take a long, long time and nobody would ever learn anything
[08:15:25] <TimStarling>	I've filed a bug report
[08:16:11] <TimStarling>	I figure it may be easier to talk to Aaron that way, since he's hardly ever on IRC, and when he does, he leaves a few minutes between each line
[08:17:04] <TimStarling>	so conversations seem to take hours
[08:17:06] <Marybelle>	Did you assign the bug to him?
[08:17:10] <TimStarling>	yes
[08:17:13] <Marybelle>	Oh, good.
[08:56:51] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50163 10/trunk/phase3/HISTORY: This change wasn't backported.
[08:57:46] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50164 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (Title.php specials/SpecialCreatePage.php): Reverted r48983: obsolete since r48989, replaced by less intrusive optimisations.
[08:58:11] <CIA-15>	03mkroetzsch * r50165 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/INSTALL: fixed documentation
[09:10:46] <CIA-15>	03nad * r50166 10/trunk/extensions/EmailPage/ (EmailPage.php EmailPage_body.php): $wgEmailPageAllowAllUsers was not working properly
[09:28:07] <QuestPC>	Hi! Why can't I upload zip or tgz file to mediawiki.org? I've developed an extension (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QPoll), which I would like to share.
[09:28:35] <InShaneee>	Does anyone know of a way on Mediawiki you can create such that it can be referenced elsewhere, and updates when the data is changed?
[09:28:43] <domas>	QuestPC: just put it anywhere else and link to it, maybe?
[09:28:49] <InShaneee>	kind of like a template, with with datasets?
[09:29:05] <QuestPC>	domas: maybe, but that is unhandy..
[09:29:22] <QuestPC>	domas: ok.
[09:29:35] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50167 10/branches/REL1_15/phase3/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Backport r49002, prevents watchlist breakage in conjunction with already-backported r48989.
[09:29:45] <p858snake>	QuestPC: you could request a svn account
[09:29:50] <Marybelle>	InShaneee: Semantic MediaWiki?
[09:30:13] <Splarka>	QuestPC: $wgMimeTypeBlacklist maybe
[09:30:36] <Splarka>	(oh, mediawiki.org, nm)
[09:30:52] <InShaneee>	Marybelle: I saw that, but I wasn't sure what exactly it did. You think that might do it?
[09:31:02] <QuestPC>	Splarka: or, $wgFileExtensions, $wgTrustedMediaFormats. anyway, I am not an admin there..
[09:31:15] <Marybelle>	I think so.
[09:31:47] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50168 10/trunk/phase3/includes/LogEventsList.php: (bug 18657) Workaround for MySQL optimiser bug. Replaces Domas's live patch.
[09:32:35] <QuestPC>	p858snake: maybe, it probably would take too much of time. also, I don't want to occasionally screw up something there in SVN.
[09:32:54] <InShaneee>	Marybelle: hmm, that may do the trick. I'll look into it more. Thank you much!
[09:32:55] <QuestPC>	p858snake: I think google has a code site, I will look there.
[09:33:32] <p858snake>	you can't extactly screw a file up in svn, its just a code revision site
[09:34:50] <QuestPC>	p858snake: yes, probably it can be rolled back or reverted. I remember there was such case with Semantic MediaWiki once.
[09:37:24] <flyingparchment>	there's such a case every day, that's the point of revision control
[09:37:44] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=49867
[09:38:43] <p858snake>	its basically codeing with a mediawiki-like versioning control system
[09:38:48] <QuestPC>	ok. how much hard for the extension to get placed into the svn? I see that not every extension is there.
[09:39:06] <QuestPC>	Probably someone should review it, first?
[09:39:41] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: someone has to *maintain* it once it's in svn. so, basically, the question is how hard it is for you to get commit access.
[09:39:52] <Duesentrieb>	if you have commit access, you are free to put your extension there
[09:40:29] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: no, I don't have. to have such access one has to submit some worthy mediawiki pathes, I think.
[09:40:57] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: submit patches, or write an extension and promise to maintain it in svn :)
[09:41:09] <p858snake>	QuestPC: see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Commit_access and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Commit_access_requests
[09:41:17] <Duesentrieb>	basically, someone would review your extension, see if it's any good, and if it's ok, you get access.
[09:41:24] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: probably it would be easier to upload somewhere else. I just wonder why tgz is disabled. there's not much of risk. linux use it any time.
[09:41:55] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: the rist is the same with all achive formats: they can contain anything.
[09:42:11] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: and looking inside to check what they contain is a rik in itself - google for "zip bomb"
[09:42:35] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50169 10/trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES: Added release notes entry for user-visible change r49212: fix for template loop check. Users reported that this change broke their deliberately loopy templates.
[09:43:25] <Marybelle>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_bomb
[09:43:34] <Splarka>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thisisazipfile1.zip.pdf  (pre mime-checking)
[09:45:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change TorBlock configuration on WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18540  +comment (10chenzhengwei2002)
[09:45:14] <Splarka>	you say "loopy" like it is a bad thing
[09:46:54] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: I guess tgz's can be automatically scanned by some server script in perl or python, so it would contain only text files and also doesn't impose any overflow threats, but tha't sprobably too much of work.
[09:47:09] <CIA-15>	03tstarling * r50170 10/branches/REL1_15/phase3/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Backported r49212/r50169: template loop check didn't work when redirects were involved. Backporting due to DoS risk.
[09:48:04] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: could, and i even imple,ented the interface for that (four years ago). But doing that is in itself dangerous. a compresswed archive can be constructed in a way that uncompressing it will never finish and use up huge amounts of memory.
[09:48:24] <flyingparchment>	Duesentrieb: that's not true of tar
[09:48:31] <flyingparchment>	(unless you want to store the entire contents in memory)
[09:53:11] <Duesentrieb>	tar is probably pretty safe. don't know about gz and bz2, havn't looked at the algorithem, but i suspect they can be made to do bad things.
[09:53:57] <Duesentrieb>	formats that combinae archival and compression, like zip, are probably the most dangerous ones
[09:54:08] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: Any chance tar uploading would be enabled at mediawiki.org?
[09:54:29] <Duesentrieb>	no idea, and I don't see much point in it.
[09:54:42] <Duesentrieb>	i like to be able to look at the code online
[09:54:49] <Duesentrieb>	archives don't allow that
[09:54:57] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: It would be so much handy for extensions (still trying to figure out how to upload the code to google)
[09:54:57] <Duesentrieb>	you can request it if you like
[09:55:15] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: ok
[09:55:26] <Duesentrieb>	well, code is best stored in code repositories, i think. but maybe that'S just me
[09:56:09] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: you say that because you surely have SVN commit access and familiar with SVN... that access is not given to everyone.
[09:56:33] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: ok, no problem. I'll upload it somewhere else.
[09:57:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Images do not display - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18322  (10yann)
[09:58:59] <p858snake>	http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=4254 <lol at number 8
[10:02:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Images do not display - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18322  (10thomasV1)
[10:04:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Large images do not display in ProofreadPage extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18322  summary (10public)
[10:08:41] <CIA-15>	03ialex * r50171 10/trunk/extensions/Gadgets/Gadgets.php: 
[10:08:41] <CIA-15>	'parseinline' -> 'parse' for gadgets-prefstext to fix XHTML error.
[10:08:41] <CIA-15>	'parseinline' doesn't remove the <p> tags in the middle of the text, but since this message contains two paragraphs in its definition, the </p> <p> beetween these two paragraphs are not removed.
[10:11:48] <hippietrail>	i'd like some help with a sql query
[10:12:23] <hippietrail>	i want the superset of pages in a given category and pages which match a given regex
[10:12:43] <hippietrail>	but i'm confused about ON vs WHERE lacking experience with sql
[10:13:38] <hippietrail>	the category requires a join but the regex doesn't and i'm getting the wrong results
[10:14:35] <Marybelle>	Pastebin the query?
[10:16:50] <hippietrail>	http://pastebin.com/m32c947f8
[10:17:53] <hippietrail>	i seem to be getting only results from line 3 but not from line 4
[10:17:58] <QuestPC>	damn google, I haven't been able to create my own code project... :-(
[10:18:18] <Marybelle>	hippietrail: You want the merged results of the two sets?
[10:18:27] <hippietrail>	yes
[10:18:28] <QuestPC>	I've uploaded the extension to share site, however the link is not very nice.
[10:18:41] <Marybelle>	hippietrail: SELECT ... UNION SELECT ... ;
[10:18:46] <hippietrail>	i could do two queries and merge them in code but that may be wasteful
[10:19:08] <Duesentrieb>	specify whatz you measn by "merge"...
[10:19:14] <hippietrail>	union
[10:19:32] <Duesentrieb>	right. so either do what Marybelle said.
[10:19:42] <Duesentrieb>	or use an OR condition.
[10:20:01] <Duesentrieb>	the latter is more efficient but also harder to code... 
[10:20:09] <Duesentrieb>	probably to nasty in the case of categories
[10:20:14] <Duesentrieb>	so, use union :)
[10:20:17] <hippietrail>	i have an OR at line 4 but i think its not working because of the join/on
[10:20:41] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: How can I submit a request of enabling tar file uploads at mediawiki.org?
[10:21:17] <CIA-15>	03ialex * r50172 10/trunk/extensions/OnlineStatus/OnlineStatus.php: Follow-up r49991: add sections here also
[10:22:31] <Duesentrieb>	QuestPC: the mailing-list wikitech-l is probably the best way to start a discussion about it.
[10:22:45] <QuestPC>	Duesentrieb: thanks.
[10:22:48] <Duesentrieb>	!lists
[10:22:48] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "lists". You might try: !list !mailinglists !smw !support 
[10:22:55] <Duesentrieb>	!mailinglists
[10:22:55] --mwbot--	See http://lists.wikimedia.org/
[10:23:03] <Duesentrieb>	hmpf. oh well, it's a start :)
[10:28:22] <hippietrail>	using union do i get two copies for anything that matched both selects?
[10:29:36] <Marybelle>	No.
[10:29:40] <Duesentrieb>	no, provided mysql has a way to identify aht a "thing" is.
[10:29:53] <flyingparchment>	you get the results of one select followed by the results of another select
[10:29:56] <Duesentrieb>	i don't know if it looks at all fields, or only at unique keys, oir what
[10:30:12] <Marybelle>	It automatically removes duplicates unless you specify UNION ALL.
[10:30:14] <Duesentrieb>	flyingparchment: and if they overlp?
[10:30:15] <hippietrail>	hmm i'm trying to add a secong column which will tell me which of the two selects matched for each row
[10:30:17] <Marybelle>	(According to Wikipedia.)
[10:30:22] <Duesentrieb>	Marybelle: ah, right :)
[10:31:11] <hippietrail>	i see that it removes duplicate rows. so before i tried to add the second column i only got one copy now i get two copies, one for each value i've put in th 2nd column
[10:32:50] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:CheckStorage.php  mm, useful
[10:33:09] <hippietrail>	http://pastebin.com/m4ee8804a
[10:41:49] <Nikerabbit>	hi Duesentrieb
[10:42:17] <Duesentrieb>	moin Nikerabbit
[10:44:29] <Nikerabbit>	Duesentrieb: do you know if my paper has arrived
[11:00:42] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) special:export exports two copies of pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17374  +comment (10tstarling)
[11:03:32] <Marybelle>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/49212#code-comments ?
[11:04:12] <TimStarling>	I started typing a comment in there, and then forgot about it, and later changed the status
[11:04:39] <Marybelle>	Ah.
[11:33:26] <Duesentrieb>	Nikerabbit: yes, it arrived.
[12:17:39] <fahadsadah>	Back
[12:47:45] <proppy>	Hi, does pageid=0 in recentchanges means new page ?
[12:51:40] <Splarka>	proppy: in what context do you see it, which wiki, which point of access? ui/api/sql?
[12:52:49] <proppy>	Splarka: recentchanges api
[12:53:19] <proppy>	see first row of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges&rcstart=2009-05-04T12:52:53Z for example
[12:53:43] <proppy>	ah I missed the type= field
[12:53:49] <proppy>	which means login
[12:53:55] <proppy>	sorry for the noise :|
[12:54:46] <proppy>	Splarka: it occurs on recentchanges api
[12:54:46] <Splarka>	pageid="0" means log entry
[12:54:52] <proppy>	for type=log event
[12:54:59] <proppy>	log == login ?
[12:55:03] <CIA-15>	03daniel * r50173 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWord/src/main/php/wwutils.php: use LEFT join for definitions
[12:55:04] <Splarka>	log = log
[12:55:11] <Splarka>	Special:Log
[12:55:16] <proppy>	Splarka: what is a log ?
[12:55:24] <Splarka>	like deletes, uploads, newusers, protects, blocks
[12:56:40] <Splarka>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
[12:56:53] <Splarka>	(Deletion log)  09:03 . . Euku (talk | contribs | block) deleted "Scott Rojo" (See Wikipedia:What test wiki is not: content was: ''''Scott Rojo''' born April 4, 1989 in ([Houston, Texas])Is an American born soccer player who currently plays for High Point University in North Carolina�' (and the only contributor was '[[Spec)
[12:56:57] <Splarka>	^ a log entry
[12:57:10] <Marybelle>	A log entry with personal info in it, even.
[12:57:31] <CIA-15>	03daniel * r50174 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWord/src/main/php/wikiword.php: definition row optional
[12:57:41] <proppy>	Splarka: thanks
[12:57:48] <proppy>	I will only track &rctype=edit|new for now :)
[12:57:50] <Splarka>	np
[12:57:58] <Splarka>	heh
[13:03:49] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=253178&oldid=196189
[13:04:00] <Splarka>	so, do people think they are changing settings when they do this?
[13:14:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Give proper error message when viewing &action=protect without sufficient rights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18677  (10ste.coda)
[13:15:07] <CIA-15>	03aaron * r50175 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): *(bug 18676) Fixed nonsensical cache invalidation on revision delete
[13:15:44] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) RevisionDelete invalidates the cache for large numbers of pages unnecessarily - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18676  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[13:15:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Give proper error message when viewing &action=protect without sufficient rights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18677   +need-review +patch (10ste.coda)
[13:31:10] <CIA-15>	03simetrical * r50176 10/trunk/phase3/includes/LogEventsList.php: 
[13:31:10] <CIA-15>	Update docs to note what passing empty string does
[13:31:10] <CIA-15>	See r50128.
[13:33:02] <CIA-15>	03aaron * r50177 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php: (bug 18666) Add show/hide to contribs
[13:34:03] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Strange font issued by Internet Explorer 8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18679 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (kwj2772)
[13:39:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add revisiondelete "show/hide" links in various places - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18666  (10JSchulz_4587)
[13:39:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Strange font issued by Internet Explorer 8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18679  (10herd)
[13:40:23] <CIA-15>	03aaron * r50178 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialDeletedContributions.php: (bug 18666) Add show/hide links to deletedcontribs
[13:41:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add revisiondelete "show/hide" links in various places - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18666  (10JSchulz_4587)
[13:54:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Strange font issued by Internet Explorer 8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18679  (10shinjiman)
[14:03:09] <xianze>	hi folks !
[14:05:24] <xianze>	i need some help. :P i'm trying to get the uploading to work with .zip files, i have altered in the Default_Config file and added , 'zip'. i have also tried $wgFileExtensions = array_merge... in the LocalSettings.php without any result..
[14:05:30] <xianze>	have i missed anything important? ;
[14:05:31] <xianze>	;)
[14:06:12] <Splarka>	$wgMimeTypeBlacklist
[14:07:07] <Splarka>	see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgMimeTypeBlacklist and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgVerifyMimeType
[14:07:43] <Barnerd>	xianze: Should not edit DefaultSettings, but use LocalSettings instead
[14:08:07] <Barnerd>	xianze: A new release may overwrite the DefaultSettings, but not LocalSettings
[14:10:03] <xianze>	okey
[14:13:18] <xianze>	worked like a charm with som edit
[14:13:20] <xianze>	thanks :)
[14:16:09] <Splarka>	np
[14:19:19] <fahadsadah>	Back
[14:21:48] <Marybelle>	fahadsadah: Please disable the return message. :-)
[14:29:59] <CIA-15>	03jan * r50179 10/trunk/extensions/Farmer/Farmer.i18n.php: Localisation updates for Farmer messages from translatewiki.org(2009-05-04 14:29 UTC)
[14:31:52] <fahadsadah>	TEsting
[14:52:01] <CIA-15>	03catrope * r50180 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/Article.php): (bug 18677) Give proper error message when viewing &action=protect without sufficient rights. Patch by Stefano Codari
[14:52:15] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Give proper error message when viewing &action=protect without sufficient rights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18677  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[15:10:56] <CIA-15>	03catrope * r50181 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/api/ApiQueryCategories.php): API: (bug 18518) Add clprop=hidden to prop=categories. Also use array_flip($params['prop']) to simplify code
[15:11:20] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Add clprop=hidden to prop=categories to show category hidden status - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18518  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[15:12:03] <bigdawgasylum>	heya, is anyone around who could help me look over my gone down wiki and help me out?
[15:12:17] <RoanKattouw>	Link?
[15:12:20] <bigdawgasylum>	http://www.asylum-seekers-defence.org.uk/wiki/
[15:12:47] <bigdawgasylum>	client forget to tell me for a week it was down :(
[15:13:46] <RoanKattouw>	Error: 1146 Table 'asylum_wiki.objectcache' doesn't exist (localhost)
[15:14:05] <RoanKattouw>	You will want to check your database to see if all the tables are still there
[15:14:17] <bigdawgasylum>	ok, if it has gone could i just make a new one?
[15:14:36] <RoanKattouw>	Sure
[15:14:46] <RoanKattouw>	But ideally there would be something left :D
[15:14:56] <bigdawgasylum>	aye :P
[15:16:57] <hippietrail>	RoanKattouw: do you think it would be worthwhile adding an api to batch expand templates?
[15:17:15] <RoanKattouw>	What do you mean exactly by batch-expand?
[15:17:27] <Simetrical>	Recursively expand?
[15:17:31] <Simetrical>	Like . . . parse?
[15:17:46] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Download&curid=1519&diff=253232&oldid=253200  wat
[15:17:51] <RoanKattouw>	We've got action=expandtemplates and &rvexpandtemplates already
[15:18:04] *RoanKattouw 	cracks up
[15:18:47] <hippietrail>	oh sorry i meant parse
[15:19:02] <RoanKattouw>	hippietrail: You mean something like &rvparse ?
[15:19:24] *Splarka 	gets dejavu
[15:19:36] <hippietrail>	i rvparse? i don't see it
[15:19:45] <RoanKattouw>	No, it's not there
[15:20:00] <Splarka>	2009-05-01 [14:22:05] <Splarka>	heh, roan, now hippietrail wants something like &rvparse
[15:20:01] <Splarka>	2009-05-01 [14:31:47] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: The desire for &rvparse makes sense, but it's not gonna happen
[15:20:06] <RoanKattouw>	And I'm not gonna add it either. &rvexpandtemplates is expensive enough as it is
[15:20:21] <hippietrail>	i want to pass in a list of template names and get back something that lets me associate parsed output to each of those templates
[15:20:43] <RoanKattouw>	hippietrail: action=expandtemplates&text={{t1|...}}{{t2|...}}etc.
[15:21:02] <hippietrail>	i dont need revision context as far as im aware
[15:21:04] <RoanKattouw>	Possibly with a unique separator between the template calls
[15:21:32] <hippietrail>	yes its the separator i'm having trouble with
[15:22:06] <hippietrail>	my set of template names is the set of valid iso 639 language codes
[15:22:14] <RoanKattouw>	Why not just do something like UNIQ-1-(some MD5 hash here)-QINU ?
[15:22:22] <RoanKattouw>	(as a separator that is)
[15:22:35] <hippietrail>	about 7000 and the oddballs seem to always find a way to break it
[15:22:53] <hippietrail>	well ill perserver of course
[15:32:49] <windopain>	how can i link to a section in an article?  for example, when a header, === foo ===, is in an article, is there a quick way to link to that part of the article?
[15:33:51] <charitwo`>	How do you promote someone via user rights with an @ in their name, it gives me a permissions error as if I was trying to modify rights like I was a steward at meta
[15:34:21] <RoanKattouw>	windopain: Articlename#Sectionname
[15:34:42] <RoanKattouw>	charitwo`: What's the username?
[15:34:50] <Simetrical>	charitwo`, such users are theoretically not supposed to exist.
[15:35:02] <Simetrical>	Ideally, they should be renamed to something else.
[15:35:16] <Simetrical>	I think stewards can still do the promotion if necessary, maybe using user id or something.
[15:35:33] <charitwo`>	it's not a mwf wiki, the username is Heretic mkII@ffxi
[15:35:51] <RoanKattouw>	So give yourself more rights?
[15:36:15] <charitwo`>	what more rights?
[15:36:26] <RoanKattouw>	userrights-interwiki I believe
[15:36:48] <charitwo`>	that won't work on a place like wikia
[15:37:12] <charitwo`>	they don't have that system set up, all rights modifications are done locally
[15:37:22] <windopain>	RoanKattouw: thank you
[15:37:46] <RoanKattouw>	charitwo`: Hmm. Then you should probably rename the user first
[15:38:20] <windopain>	RoanKattouw: would that be in brackets?  i.e., [[Articlename#Sectionname]]
[15:38:30] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[15:38:52] <Simetrical>	charitwo`, new names like that haven't been allowed for a long time.  Best advice is to rename the user first.
[15:39:34] <charitwo`>	going to be difficult, wikia disallows username changes due to a shared user database
[15:40:15] <Splarka>	then a shellveloper will have to update the userright by ID# by SQL thingy
[15:40:36] <Simetrical>	Yeah, in that case I'm pretty sure you're going to need to talk to sysadmins.
[15:41:15] <charitwo`>	can't be done via api either i'm guessing?
[15:41:26] <Splarka>	maybe in 1.16
[15:41:27] <RoanKattouw>	No, not by user ID unfortunately
[15:41:33] *Splarka 	winks at Roan
[15:41:37] <Simetrical>	Userrights doesn't work at all in the API except maybe in very recent versions.
[15:41:45] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, it won't even be in 1.15
[15:42:16] <Splarka>	but brion did give you the go-ahead to refer to users by ID right? ^_^
[15:42:31] <proppy>	Hi,
[15:42:37] <RoanKattouw>	I don't recall if he did, but I don't feel I need it
[15:42:49] <proppy>	is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Gallery_of_user_styles the equivalent of http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extensions for skins ?
[15:42:59] <Splarka>	heh: <brion-meeting>	what's the part that's to be exposed?   
[15:43:22] <Splarka>	roan: well, for crap like this, or banning future-bad usernames, it would be handy
[15:43:23] <RoanKattouw>	That was about *exposing* user IDs, not allowing them as input
[15:43:37] <Splarka>	right, well the first part in using them for input is exposing them in output
[15:44:22] <Splarka>	ahh, I guess all he said was: <brion-meeting> user ids are an internal implementation detail which should never be needed externally, but they're not actively hidden
[15:44:45] <Splarka>	but it would be nice to have userrights and block (two cases where a demonstratable need for this) allow it
[15:44:47] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[15:44:53] <RoanKattouw>	But they're not very different from page IDs IMO
[15:44:54] <Splarka>	in the same way you can delete a page by ID (if it has a bad title)
[15:45:01] <Splarka>	exactly!
[15:45:06] <Duesentrieb>	could also be useful to expose it via the API
[15:45:07] <Splarka>	and you allow page deletion by id in the api ^_^
[15:45:34] <Splarka>	so it should be useful to have some (or even all) user actions by ID
[15:46:51] <Splarka>	anyway, mostly covered http://toolserver.org/~amidaniel/chanlogs/%23mediawiki/20090501.txt around [17:26:15]
[15:52:10] <eagleheart>	hi, i've taken responsibility for a box hosting several mediawiki sites and nothing else
[15:52:40] <eagleheart>	is it normal to have _LOTS_ of php errors in the httpd error_log? (where the pages still render properly)
[15:53:01] <RoanKattouw>	eagleheart: Does it say 'error', 'warning' or 'notice'?
[15:53:10] <eagleheart>	mostly Undefined (Index|Property)
[15:53:13] <RoanKattouw>	Also, is there a lot of the same errors? What do they say?
[15:53:17] <eagleheart>	it says error, but not fatal error
[15:53:36] <eagleheart>	Yes same errors every time page x or y is loaded
[15:53:53] <Reedy>	pastebin the errors? (or some of them)
[15:54:34] *eagleheart 	is looking for pastebin address
[15:54:43] <Reedy>	http://rafb.net/paste/ 
[15:54:46] <eagleheart>	thx
[15:54:56] <TimStarling>	RoanKattouw: I'll be doing the API backports to 1.15 tomorrow
[15:55:04] <RoanKattouw>	TimStarling: Great
[15:55:22] <TimStarling>	will you be online?
[15:55:25] <RoanKattouw>	I was on the verge of backporting that ConfirmEdit rev, but then I noticed it relies on an API rev that hadn't been backported yet
[15:55:35] <RoanKattouw>	Depends on what time? :P
[15:55:52] <TimStarling>	more than 8 hours from now, need to sleep first
[15:56:25] <TimStarling>	anyway, after that's done, then there's a couple of minor bugfixes, then I should be able to do an RC
[15:56:57] <RoanKattouw>	Great
[15:57:46] <RoanKattouw>	TimStarling: I'll probably be online by 7 PM your time
[15:58:04] <TimStarling>	ok
[15:58:14] <TimStarling>	there were a lot of patches this time around: 24 revisions backported so far, 8 left on my list
[15:58:57] <TimStarling>	it's a bit silly to have a live copy that's so heavily patched, without having a branch for it
[15:59:21] <TimStarling>	maybe I should do code review more often
[16:00:14] <hashar>	hello tim. Can't you merge live patches to trunk ?
[16:00:22] <TimStarling>	they're in trunk already
[16:00:39] <eagleheart>	Reedy: 009] [error] [client 128.192.6.122] PHP Notice:  Undefined variable: params in /var/www/html/wikis/eitshel
[16:00:50] <eagleheart>	Oops
[16:00:57] <Reedy>	lol, thats not pastebin ;)
[16:01:15] <eagleheart>	Reedy: http://rafb.net/p/29h8L136.html
[16:01:17] <TimStarling>	the live copy is basically what you're seeing in the 1.15 branch: r48811 plus lots of backports
[16:01:28] <Reedy>	RoanKattouw, ^
[16:01:33] <Splarka>	hmm, you mostly only like to code review when the developer is available right? maybe you could make it a practice to grab an active dev for a few hours and review them as hostage (letting bri handle aaron's and the non-ircers)
[16:01:40] <TimStarling>	except in the live copy it's not obvious where the changes came from, whether they're merges or original patches
[16:01:53] <TimStarling>	well, that's what I thought originally
[16:02:08] <RoanKattouw>	eagleheart: The first line refers to the YouTube extension
[16:02:18] <eagleheart>	basically is it worth it to try to track down all the errors (i don't know php currently)
[16:02:19] <TimStarling>	but today I filed a couple of bug reports against code in trunk, and left a few CodeReview comments
[16:02:28] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) pagelinks database table contains interwiki links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18680 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Database; (byrial)
[16:02:31] <TimStarling>	and that kind of worked
[16:02:34] <Reedy>	eagleheart, are the extensions/wiki's all up to date?
[16:02:47] <RoanKattouw>	eagleheart: They don't look very harmful, so as long as you're not seeing any bugs I wouldn't bother
[16:03:09] <TimStarling>	I'm not set on getting it out before a deadline, so there's no urgency, that takes the stress out of it
[16:03:38] <eagleheart>	Reedy: mediawiki was updated to 1.14, update.php was run on the mysql databases
[16:03:53] <Reedy>	what about the extension? As Roan suggested it was that
[16:03:58] <eagleheart>	my users are adding extensions which I don't know if they are new or not.
[16:04:06] <Splarka>	huh, file:|link= strikes again
[16:04:10] <RoanKattouw>	TimStarling: Quick question: you introduced the page_props table, right? Are extensions supposed/allowed to add their own props there, or should the whole table die? (I vaguely recall someone saying the latter once)
[16:04:36] <TimStarling>	that someone was wrong
[16:04:42] <eagleheart>	RoanKattouw: Ok going by your advice. Not to worry now
[16:04:43] <TimStarling>	extensions should add properties and I intend to write some
[16:04:47] <RoanKattouw>	Greta
[16:04:50] <RoanKattouw>	*Great
[16:08:03] <TimStarling>	maybe the tight deadline was the problem with code review all along
[16:08:52] <TimStarling>	it was always: find fault -> get angry -> seethe -> find person to complain at -> OK
[16:09:27] <TimStarling>	today it was: find fault -> calmly write note -> find next fault
[16:09:59] <Splarka>	while brion seems to: find fault -> revert -> scap -> create 10 new committers
[16:10:48] <charitwo`>	heh
[16:11:54] <TimStarling>	we could probably get by with less reverts if we had more time between review and deployment
[16:12:15] <hashar>	cant you restrict trunk to trusted devs
[16:12:23] <hashar>	and have everyone else in their own branch ?
[16:12:26] <TimStarling>	hashar...
[16:12:34] <RoanKattouw>	No, and we don't want that either
[16:12:35] <Simetrical>	You mean like using a DVCS?  :)
[16:12:36] <Reedy>	thats a lotta branches
[16:12:38] <TimStarling>	it's the trusted devs that are the problem
[16:12:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) pagelinks database table contains interwiki links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18680  (10herd)
[16:12:52] <Simetrical>	In this case, trusted would be, say, you and brion.
[16:13:04] <Simetrical>	And you'd only pull from other people's branches to yours after review.
[16:13:05] <RoanKattouw>	What we should really have is a branch that WMF runs off, and people like Brion and Tim backporting stuff to that branch when they've reviewed it
[16:13:07] <Simetrical>	\o/
[16:13:33] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, in SVN, you'd then completely screw up blames.
[16:13:34] <TimStarling>	brion never reviews my code, I think he should
[16:13:45] <Reedy>	Surely noone should be infallible?
[16:13:45] <Simetrical>	They'd all be Brion or Tim.
[16:13:48] <TimStarling>	I review his, when I have time
[16:13:49] <hashar>	RoanKattouw: we had that with 1.13 , production was running off '1.13a' branch iirc
[16:13:54] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: For the branch, yes, but all those revs come from trunk
[16:14:06] <Simetrical>	Yeah, but trunk isn't going to be the live code.
[16:14:13] <TimStarling>	hashar: 1.3 maybe?
[16:14:18] <RoanKattouw>	hashar: No, production is running off a version of trunk varying from 1 day to 1 month old with live patches thrown in
[16:14:26] <hashar>	TimStarling: that was 1.3
[16:14:42] <Simetrical>	Being able to cherry-pick commits and keep the original attribution is a convenient feature of DVCSes.
[16:15:01] <CIA-15>	03jan * r50182 10/trunk/extensions/Farmer/MediaWikiFarmer.php: Resolve bug in MediaWikiFarmer.php(see diff)
[16:15:04] <hashar>	RoanKattouw: so a dedicated production branch is what "we" want )
[16:15:06] <TimStarling>	anyway, trust is seriously not the issue
[16:15:21] <RoanKattouw>	hashar: Possibly
[16:15:26] <TimStarling>	I'm only one person, I can't do everything
[16:15:38] <TimStarling>	so I have to educate
[16:16:07] <hashar>	hire more people ? <:)
[16:16:14] <Splarka>	easier said than done hashar
[16:16:25] <Reedy>	throwing people at a problem doesn't make it better/easier/whatever ;)
[16:16:26] <Splarka>	check the last ~20 diffs at http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Job_openings/Software_Developer_(project)&action=history
[16:16:30] <TimStarling>	teaching is fun, it's like making clones of yourself who will do your work for you
[16:16:36] <RoanKattouw>	Meh, I usually restrict my reviewing to commits to includes/api , even if it's Brion or Tim ( *especially* if it's them :D )
[16:16:59] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: That page doesn't have 20 revs
[16:17:07] <Splarka>	exactly! (heh)
[16:17:14] <TimStarling>	it doesn't really matter to me whether the devs are hired or volunteer
[16:17:15] <TimStarling>	hi brion
[16:17:23] <Splarka>	no, but check the last several diffs, all extending the date or expanding the possibilities
[16:17:52] <RoanKattouw>	Actually the last two shrunk the job scope
[16:18:03] <TimStarling>	in fact, the staff developers need the most mentoring
[16:18:25] <Splarka>	well, like: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Job_openings/Software_Developer_(project)&diff=38855&oldid=38733
[16:18:33] <brion>	hi TimStarling 
[16:18:38] <TimStarling>	you can be sure they'll be around for a while so it'll pay off
[16:19:16] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Yeah, Trevor mentioned they were having trouble finding someone
[16:19:18] <TimStarling>	brion: I was just saying that code review is easier without the urgent deadline
[16:19:25] <brion>	:)
[16:19:27] <TimStarling>	for me at least
[16:19:46] <brion>	it needs to be kept a little more up to date overall :D this reduces the madness a bit ;)
[16:20:05] <TimStarling>	I mean, I have only done a couple of days of this leading up to this 1.15 release, but so far so good
[16:20:06] <brion>	a bit here and there goes much easier than trying to slog through a bunch at once
[16:21:12] <TimStarling>	I think I can probably slog, I put in a fair few hours Friday and today, the main thing is stress control
[16:21:21] <brion>	yep
[16:22:11] <CIA-15>	03thomasv * r50183 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/proofread.js: various fixes for IE; indentation; use of the DOM
[16:22:32] <Splarka>	have you considered themed stress balls? who wouldn't be calmer after squishing a plush wikipedia logo
[16:22:48] <TimStarling>	I thought about just drinking a lot of alcohol
[16:22:54] <brion>	:)
[16:23:00] <TimStarling>	but I figured it might reduce my skills a bit
[16:23:10] <Reedy>	Something for the next wikimania? ;)
[16:23:18] <brion>	http://xkcd.com/323/
[16:23:19] *RoanKattouw 	envisions TimStarling removing lots of lines citing "code duplication"
[16:23:56] <Reedy>	RoanKattouw, duplication is bad, mmkay?
[16:24:01] <CIA-15>	03robin * r50184 10/USERINFO/robin: Commit USERINFO file
[16:24:11] <TimStarling>	new devs!
[16:24:17] <brion>	\o/
[16:24:25] <SPQRobin>	it works :)
[16:26:02] <TimStarling>	I figure I should probably move on to updating the live copy after I've got an RC out
[16:26:34] <TimStarling>	since I've already looked at the live diff to trunk, I know what conflicts are coming
[16:26:52] <TimStarling>	was there something else urgent I was meant to be doing?
[16:27:05] <TimStarling>	hmmm, writing goals maybe?
[16:27:20] <brion>	:)
[16:27:22] *brion 	coughs politely
[16:27:34] <brion>	yeah i gotta put on my boss face and push the bureaucracy sometimes :D
[16:27:41] *RoanKattouw 	nudges TimStarling towards bug 16012
[16:27:57] <brion>	TimStarling: everything's going well with finishing up the license vote?
[16:28:17] <Simetrical>	Do we know who won yet?
[16:28:17] <CIA-15>	03demon * r50185 10/USERINFO/robin: eol-style
[16:28:38] <TimStarling>	there's a management theory saying
[16:29:13] <TimStarling>	a good boss is not a pal
[16:29:39] <TimStarling>	you're meant to be hated, see
[16:30:29] <brion>	hmmm :)
[16:30:46] <aZaFred>	let the hatred start :p
[16:30:49] <brion>	i can be more of a jerk if you like
[16:31:05] <aZaFred>	but only towards Tim, right ?
[16:31:16] <TimStarling>	no no, you're fine as you are
[16:31:27] <TimStarling>	I'll get those goals to you by next month, ok?
[16:31:44] <brion>	if you could give them a quick update today that'd be great
[16:32:13] <brion>	otherwise i start pricing waterboarding equipment on ebay
[16:32:27] <TimStarling>	yes sir!
[16:32:32] <aZaFred>	I hear the CIA might have a blowout sale soon ;p
[16:32:49] <Reedy>	aZaFred, cheap svn commit notifications?
[16:33:01] <aZaFred>	meh?
[16:33:50] *brion 	eyes CIA-15 warily
[16:33:57] *Reedy 	introuduces aZaFred to CIA-15
[16:33:59] <aZaFred>	ahhaha
[16:34:01] <Reedy>	brion got it then ;)
[16:34:01] <aZaFred>	gotit
[16:34:10] *aZaFred 	needs more coffee stat
[16:35:44] <TimStarling>	anything else before I go to bed?
[16:36:15] <hashar>	good night wishes maybe ?
[16:38:06] <TimStarling>	broken: https://developer.mozilla.org/En
[16:38:40] <brion>	heh
[16:38:48] <brion>	hmmm was there something else i was going to ask TimStarling ...
[16:39:14] <charitwo`>	for a cup of coffee ?
[16:39:25] <brion>	i guess we're good for now :D
[16:42:18] <TimStarling>	well, if you remember, you can always wake me up in the middle of the night by phoning
[16:42:27] <TimStarling>	just no waterboarding please
[16:42:39] <TimStarling>	night
[16:44:13] <Platonides>	waterboarding?
[16:44:33] <Reedy>	Platonides, torture/interrogation technique
[16:44:35] <hashar>	a form of torture
[16:44:42] <Reedy>	makes the person feel like they're drowning IIRC
[16:44:46] <Splarka>	"enhanced interview"
[16:44:51] <Nikerabbit>	hi Splarka Splarka 
[16:44:53] <charitwo`>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
[16:44:57] <Splarka>	me me
[16:45:00] <charitwo`>	has a crude visual
[16:45:11] <Reedy>	"How much do YOU want to work for the WMF?"
[16:46:15] <Platonides>	seems a bit hard to do by phone
[17:00:05] *charitwo` 	whacks Splarka with a squirrel
[17:00:23] <Splarka>	ow
[17:22:05] <wikibugs>	06(LATER) Prioritization system for flagged revisions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18673  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[17:23:25] <CIA-15>	03thomasv * r50186 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/proofread.js: layout : put toolbar directly above the textbox
[17:31:43] <Tom__>	Hi all
[17:32:20] <RoanKattouw>	Hi
[17:32:24] <LauraHale>	Hrllo
[17:32:34] <Tom__>	May I ask a quick question?
[17:33:26] <Tom__>	I am new to MediaWiki and wish to password protect my wiki so that when someone enters in the address they prompted for a user name and password, so you basically cant view the wiki without a user name and password.
[17:33:58] <Tom__>	Is there such a plugin to do this or a guide on how to do this?
[17:34:04] <RoanKattouw>	!access | Tom__ 
[17:34:04] --mwbot--	Tom__: For information on customizing user access, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_rights>. For common examples of restricting access using both rights and extensions, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access>.
[17:34:11] <RoanKattouw>	(second link, I think)
[17:40:07] <Tom__>	Thanks
[17:45:16] <CIA-15>	03aaron * r50187 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialUndelete.php: (bug 18666) Add show/hide to deleted diffs
[17:45:59] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Add revisiondelete "show/hide" links in various places - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18666  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[17:48:32] <CheechInNYC>	Getting the following error when attempting to upload image files to the wiki:  Warning: mkdir() [function.mkdir]: Permission denied in /Library/WebServer/Documents/wiki/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 1943
[17:48:49] <Platonides>	check permissions on the images
[17:48:50] <CheechInNYC>	Permissions on images/ directory is set to 777.... any suggestions
[17:48:51] <CheechInNYC>	?
[17:48:52] <Platonides>	foder
[17:49:05] <RoanKattouw>	CheechInNYC: Do subdirectories also have 777?
[17:49:40] <CheechInNYC>	There are no subdirectories in the images directory...  I'm told the wiki should create them... I suspect that's the error I'm getting.
[17:51:05] <Tom__>	I dont think the wiki will create the image directorys
[17:51:21] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, it tried to, that's what mkdir() is
[17:51:45] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Paginate Special:AllMessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16497  +comment (10happy-melon)
[17:52:00] <CheechInNYC>	The root level directory "images/" that came in the install of media wiki is there and permissions are open... but there are no subdirectories... 
[17:52:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Paginate Special:AllMessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16497  (10happy-melon)
[17:52:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Colours in the mediawiki Allmessages page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7006  (10happy-melon)
[17:53:28] <Prasutagus>	Hi
[17:53:42] <Nikerabbit>	hi
[17:56:55] <CIA-15>	03robin * r50188 10/trunk/extensions/WikimediaIncubator/ (8 files): add WikimediaIncubator extension
[17:57:44] <Prasutagus>	Could I have some help?
[17:58:00] <Prasutagus>	I would like to make my own Page on the Wiki and I don't know how.
[17:58:40] <RoanKattouw>	Prasutagus: Type the name of the new page in the search bar
[17:58:49] <Prasutagus>	Thanks =D
[17:58:49] <RoanKattouw>	And you'll get a red link saying Create this page
[17:59:12] <CheechInNYC>	How bad is it to set the entire wiki directory and all sub directories to 777?  I mean that would be bad if this were an open system, but I'm just running it on my machine and one other person has access to the machine.  Thoughts?
[17:59:14] <Watkec>	I have a wiki that will not allow any edits.  When you click on edit, a dialog box is returned asking if you want to save the page or open it in internet explorer.  any ideas what is causing this?
[17:59:46] <RoanKattouw>	!blankpage | Watkec 
[17:59:46] --mwbot--	Watkec: A blank page usually indicates a fatal PHP error. See !error
[17:59:52] <RoanKattouw>	!error | Watkec 
[17:59:52] --mwbot--	Watkec: For information on debugging (including viewing errors), see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_debug>.
[18:00:00] <RoanKattouw>	Dammit, those messages should be merged
[18:00:20] <Splarka>	actually, that error sounds like neither of those
[18:00:35] <Splarka>	Watkec: check your preferences, go to Special:Preferences / [Editing]
[18:00:50] <Splarka>	look for [x] use external editor, and uncheck it if it is checked
[18:01:35] <Watkec>	the external editor is NOT checked
[18:01:48] <CIA-15>	03jan * r50189 10/trunk/extensions/TSPoll/TSPoll.php: Add the arrgument dev
[18:01:50] <Splarka>	hmm, and you get that for every page?
[18:02:28] <Watkec>	almost all -- the main page and several others.  once in a while it is a blank white page -- and sometimes you it will work
[18:02:42] <Splarka>	(there was an old error whereby a user with external edit would cause the external status of the edit to cache for other users, that was a page by page basis)
[18:02:44] <Watkec>	but never on the main page
[18:03:05] <Splarka>	oh, blank pages? RoanKattouw are you psychic? heh
[18:03:35] <Watkec>	well -- but that is in firefox -- the same page in ie will show a dialog to download
[18:03:58] <Splarka>	is this wiki publically viewable?
[18:04:25] <Watkec>	yes -- feel free to look at it (it is not done -- we ar eworking on it)  http://216.14.114.163/~iicmnet/cyclopedia/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[18:05:40] <Splarka>	hmm, interesting
[18:05:59] <Splarka>	http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2F216.14.114.163%2F%7Eiicmnet%2Fcyclopedia%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DPortal%3AContents%2FPortals%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&submit=Submit&http=1.1&gzip=yes&type=GET&uak=0
[18:06:03] <Splarka>	shows as a blank page
[18:06:09] <Splarka>	http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2F216.14.114.163%2F%7Eiicmnet%2Fcyclopedia%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%2FMain_Page%3Faction%3Dedit&submit=Submit&http=1.1&gzip=yes&type=GET&uak=0
[18:06:11] <Splarka>	works...
[18:07:48] <Watkec>	what does this tell you, splarka?
[18:07:55] <Splarka>	and http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2F216.14.114.163%2F%7Eiicmnet%2Fcyclopedia%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DPortal%3AContents%2FPortals%26action%3Dedit&submit=Submit&http=1.1&gzip=yes&type=GET&uak=0   gives a rather different result than either
[18:08:12] <Splarka>	ehm, that stuff is broked
[18:08:37] <Splarka>	thought it might be something simple like a cached content-type: text/x-wiki
[18:08:47] <Watkec>	what seems to be broke?
[18:09:30] <Elektryk91>	Hi, how can i create new namespace i mediawiki?
[18:09:35] <Elektryk91>	in*
[18:10:01] <Splarka>	!extranamespace
[18:10:01] --mwbot--	To add a namespace, modify your LocalSettings.php file, and add namespaces via $wgExtraNamespaces. A comprehensive set of instructions for adding a namespace can be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces>. $wgExtraNamespaces can also be used to rename the default namespaces.
[18:10:18] <CIA-15>	03siebrand * r50190 10/trunk/extensions/WikimediaIncubator/ (7 files): 
[18:10:18] <CIA-15>	* fix typo in 'wminc-prefinfo-language'
[18:10:18] <CIA-15>	* stylize.php, trailing whitespace removed, updated indentation
[18:10:18] <CIA-15>	No functional changes
[18:10:37] <Watkec>	do you have any idea what might be broke?
[18:10:51] <Elektryk91>	wow, clever bot, thx ;)
[18:10:55] <Splarka>	hmmm
[18:11:13] <Splarka>	Watkec: does it work consistently if you remove the &redlink=1 from the edit URL?
[18:11:42] <Watkec>	i am not sure what you mean
[18:12:14] <Splarka>	http://216.14.114.163/~iicmnet/cyclopedia/wiki/index.php/Main_Page?action=edit  <-- does this work or ask you to download or serve you a blank page?
[18:13:00] <Watkec>	blank page
[18:13:14] <Watkec>	in firefox
[18:13:48] <Splarka>	hmmmmmmm, view the page source (ctrl-U)
[18:13:51] <Splarka>	is there anything there?
[18:14:04] <Watkec>	no just pure white page
[18:14:26] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_debug  might be your best course of action then
[18:14:28] <Watkec>	what is interesting is that this is one of several wikis that are part of an interwiki installation -- but this is the only one that has problems
[18:14:39] <Splarka>	does it have any unique extensions?
[18:15:11] <Splarka>	do they all have <paypal> ?
[18:15:21] <Watkec>	yes they all have paypal
[18:15:42] <Watkec>	and they all have exactly the same extensions -- as they share a "common extensions" file
[18:15:53] <CIA-15>	03jan * r50191 10/trunk/extensions/TSPoll/TSPoll.php: See diff
[18:16:06] <Elektryk91>	Where can I check which namespace codes are already used?
[18:16:47] <Splarka>	Elektryk91: api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=namespaces
[18:16:53] <Splarka>	eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=namespaces
[18:17:29] <Splarka>	Watkec: you have a lot of javascript? disable JS and see if anything changes?
[18:18:03] <Splarka>	you're also loading  importScript('http://216.14.114.163/~iicmnet/commons/wiki/gadgets/popups.js'); via MediaWiki:Common.js but that URL gives a 404
[18:18:29] <Watkec>	yes, we haven't gotten that to work yet.
[18:18:36] <Watkec>	where do I disable the js ?
[18:18:45] <Elektryk91>	So the numbers in the Top 16 are free, thx
[18:18:56] <Splarka>	Elektryk91: start at 100
[18:19:04] <Splarka>	Watkec: which FF version?
[18:19:08] <Elektryk91>	ok
[18:19:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Paginate Special:AllMessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16497  (10happy-melon)
[18:19:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide visual feedback for "Show only modified" status in [[Special:Allmessages]] - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7008  (10happy-melon)
[18:19:36] <Watkec>	3.0.10
[18:20:38] <Splarka>	http://www.electrictoolbox.com/disable-javascript-mozilla-firefox/
[18:21:01] <Splarka>	Tools/Options/Content, or Edit/Preferences somewhere (remember where it is to reenable it later)
[18:25:42] <Watkec>	i enabled the error checking and got this message:  Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_IF in /home/iicmnet/public_html/cyclopedia/wiki/LocalSettings.php on line 20
[18:26:13] <Watkec>	however, line 20 is exactly like the other localsettings.php files in the other wikis within the interwiki
[18:27:02] <Splarka>	ahh, the devil language php
[18:27:28] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: You might have left out a ; on line 19
[18:27:57] <Watkec>	hmmm
[18:28:50] <Watkec>	line 20:   if( defined( 'MW_INSTALL_PATH' ) ) {
[18:29:00] <Watkec>	line 21: 	$IP = MW_INSTALL_PATH;
[18:29:03] <RoanKattouw>	What's line 19?
[18:29:10] <Watkec>	line 22: } else {
[18:29:22] <Watkec>	line 23: 	$IP = dirname( __FILE__ );
[18:29:32] <Watkec>	line 24:   }
[18:29:41] <RoanKattouw>	OK, please stop pasting text now, use the pastebin for that
[18:29:49] <Watkec>	line 19:  # the other MediaWiki files. It will be used as a base to locate files.
[18:30:03] <RoanKattouw>	Can you pastebin the entire file?
[18:30:08] <RoanKattouw>	http://rafb.net/paste 
[18:30:15] <Watkec>	line 18:    # If you customize your file layout, set $IP to the directory that contains
[18:30:21] <RoanKattouw>	PASTEBIN
[18:30:28] <Watkec>	pastebin?  how do i do that?
[18:30:31] <RoanKattouw>	http://rafb.net/paste 
[18:32:18] <Watkec>	see:  http://rafb.net/p/Ux4cwM45.html
[18:33:24] <Splarka>	heh
[18:33:35] <Splarka>	oh the irony
[18:33:50] <Splarka>	your error reporting worked, it found the error you made in enabling error reporting
[18:34:10] <RoanKattouw>	Line 16 is missing a ;
[18:35:42] <Watkec>	see:  http://rafb.net/p/xPZJtg74.html
[18:36:03] <CIA-15>	03ialex * r50192 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES profileinfo.php): 
[18:36:03] <CIA-15>	* (bug 6802) profileinfo.php now also work on other database servers than MySQL
[18:36:04] <CIA-15>	Based on patches by Robert Treat (http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=2311) and Karun Dambiec (http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=6083)
[18:36:04] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: Line 16 is missing a ;
[18:37:18] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) MySQL-specific queries in /profileinfo.php - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6802  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[18:39:08] <Watkec>	now i am getting a blank page with no error messages
[18:40:41] <RoanKattouw>	Are you on shared hosting or something? Your host might disallow ini_set()
[18:44:51] <CIA-15>	03jan * r50193 10/trunk/extensions/TSPoll/TSPoll.php: Change URL an Version
[18:52:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Admins should see a warning when in process of overruling a move protection - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18466  (10pgrawehr)
[18:53:41] <Watkec>	this is on a VPS
[18:54:39] <smoddy>	ping RoanKattouw
[18:55:06] <CIA-15>	03raymond * r50194 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (22 files): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-05-04 18:24 UTC)
[19:08:13] <CIA-15>	03dale * r50195 10/branches/new-upload/phase3/skins/common/wikibits.js: dom check for mw-upload-maxfilesize-url
[19:08:36] <Watkec>	bbl
[19:13:16] <CIA-15>	03raymond * r50196 10/trunk/extensions/ (51 files in 46 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from translatewiki.net (2009-05-04 19:00 UTC)
[19:14:43] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Id conflicts between headers are possible in obscure circumstances - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16891  +comment (10david.sledge)
[19:14:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Headings with trailing numbers can conflict with auto-numbering of heading anchors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10025  +comment (10david.sledge)
[19:16:34] <CIA-15>	03robin * r50197 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add $wgGroupsAddToSelf and $wgGroupsRemoveFromSelf in Special:ListGroupRights (bug 15061), the same way as $wgAddGroups and $wgRemoveGroups
[19:17:57] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) $wgGroupsAddToSelf and $wgGroupsRemoveFromSelf missing in Special:Listgrouprights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15061  +comment (10robinp.1273)
[19:26:34] <CIA-15>	03raymond * r50198 10/trunk/extensions/Farmer/Farmer.i18n.php: Kill BOM, introduced in r50179
[19:32:48] <CIA-15>	03robin * r50199 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: fix "remove to own account" -> "remove from own account"
[19:35:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Wrap tags in an identifying span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18661  +comment (10hartman)
[19:43:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) There should be a way to change "home" wiki in CentralAuth - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14234  (10spacebirdy)
[19:45:45] <Marybelle>	Hmm, Splarka got squirreled, but I have no idea why.
[19:46:03] <Mike_lifeguard>	squirreled? O.o
[19:46:36] <Marybelle>	2009-05-04 [17:00:05] *charitwo` 	whacks Splarka with a squirrel
[19:47:16] <Mike_lifeguard>	to squirrel has a meaning, and it's not that... maybe call it squirrel-whacked :D
[19:47:53] <charitwo>	pervs
[19:48:13] <atglenn>	is there a command for that? and why "squirrel-whacked" instead of slapped? 
[19:48:17] <atglenn>	do trout have the market on slaps?
[19:48:41] <Marybelle>	Heh.
[19:48:53] <Marybelle>	I think UD has the definition Mike_lifeguard is thinking of.
[19:49:02] <Mike_lifeguard>	I doubt it
[19:49:58] <Mike_lifeguard>	To hoard in a hidden place, by analogy to squirrels' habit of hoarding nuts.
[19:50:22] <Marybelle>	"Mouthful of nuts."
[19:50:26] <Marybelle>	Heh.
[19:50:28] <xianze>	argghh i'm scratching my hair :D
[19:54:16] <xianze>	i have password protected my wiki directory with .htaccess. So long all good.. i have also set up a xxx.domain.se adress and pointed it to my server, it works fine..... but when i try to access my wiki locally, the wiki throws me out and points me to the root, in the LocalSettings.php i have not write anything under $wgScriptPath, because if i do so it doesnt work from the web to my server.. if i set for example /wiki/ it works local
[19:54:28] <xianze>	Any thoughts anyone, what do i do wrong? :s
[19:54:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) wpHideName should hide the username more effectively - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17831  (10spacebirdy)
[19:56:21] <CIA-15>	03alexsh * r50200 10/USERINFO/alexsh: add my userinfo
[19:59:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Wrap tags in an identifying span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18661  (10happy-melon)
[20:01:16] <CIA-15>	03raymond * r50201 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: 
[20:01:16] <CIA-15>	Tweak message: The watchlist shows changes of the file and the file description page.
[20:01:16] <CIA-15>	Per suggestion of Forrester on dewiki.
[20:03:14] <CIA-15>	03demon * r50202 10/USERINFO/alexsh: eol-style
[20:18:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Acitvate Extension:TemplateLink on dewiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18681 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (pgrawehr)
[20:24:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support OpenID extension on all wikimedia projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9604  +comment (10spidermannequin)
[20:40:13] <CIA-15>	03brion * r50203 10/trunk/extensions/Collection/CollectionCore.i18n.php: "Add wiki page" in sidebar is confusing; change to "Add page to book"
[20:41:13] <jkapernicus>	hello all, I'm having trouble creating new pages. I get a 404 error page. As i understand it I need to edit some IIS settings to fix it but I don't have access to that in my cpanel for enom. What else can I do?
[20:45:38] <brion>	check with microsoft support?
[20:45:46] <brion>	or at least your hosting provider
[20:46:18] <brion>	and ask them how to configure your server correctly so it doesn't damage 404 result pages
[20:46:28] <brion>	(that are output from a php script)
[20:49:07] <jkapernicus>	yeah, I put a ticket in with my host but they are taking a long time to reply. Would creating a custome error page help at all?
[20:49:24] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Ability to set block duration for abuse filters which issue blocks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18659  normal->15enhancement; summary (10matthew.britton)
[20:49:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Images accessibility with gallery, alt= doesn't exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18682 major; Normal; MediaWiki: Images and files; (bury.rodan)
[20:53:23] <CIA-15>	03rotem * r50204 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Localization update for he.
[20:53:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Images accessibility with gallery, alt= doesn't exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18682  +comment (10brion)
[20:57:38] <xianze>	hi again..
[20:57:52] <RoanKattouw>	xianze: You had a question earlier, right?
[20:58:04] <xianze>	tried som stuff with my server... therefore the downtime
[20:58:12] <xianze>	RoanKattouw: yes i had ! :O
[20:58:17] <xianze>	any suggestions? :)
[20:58:21] *RoanKattouw 	looks it up in the logs
[20:59:42] <RoanKattouw>	xianze: The wiki wants to be accessed through one URL only, so you gotta choose which one that's gonna be
[21:01:13] <RoanKattouw>	If you access it through another URL it'll just redirect you to what it thinks is the 'right' one
[21:02:45] <xianze>	okey, okey ! humm, would be from the web then.. ;) Humm, i think its bad that i cant access for example www.mydomain.com from my local network, i have asked around a bit and googled alot on this problem but cant find any answers why
[21:03:11] <xianze>	if i could access my domains from my local network, that should solve the problem :S
[21:03:21] <RoanKattouw>	That would seem to be a local configuration issue
[21:03:27] <RoanKattouw>	What goes wrong when you try?
[21:03:43] <Watkec>	well, i have added the recommended lines for both php errors and sql errors from the "How to Debug" page -- and I still get a "blank page" when I try to edit a page on the wiki
[21:04:01] <xianze>	The wiki i have set up is for a little project me and some friends have.. so it would be great if i could access it without being forced to surf via my neighbours wlan ;)
[21:04:08] <Watkec>	and this after purging the cache
[21:04:11] <xianze>	yepp, i think so too
[21:04:14] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: It could be that your host is not allowing you to use ini_set()
[21:04:25] <Watkec>	i'll check, brb
[21:04:28] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: Can you pastebin the output of phpinfo() ?
[21:04:45] <Duesentrieb>	Watkec: so you are hitting a fatal error. which might be a simple syntax error in the config file, or something bad. check php'sw error log - which may be the web server'Äs error log, or a special file, or the system log, depending on your config
[21:04:57] <xianze>	im using smoothwall as router........ dunno if the settings i need to do are there... should google some more ;)
[21:05:07] <Watkec>	output of "phpinfo"  -- which page is that?
[21:05:16] <Duesentrieb>	it's a function
[21:05:17] <Duesentrieb>	!phpinfo
[21:05:17] --mwbot--	create a file called info.php in your wiki's installation directory. It should have the following content: <?php phpinfo(); ?>; Visit it with your browser to see information about your php installation. If it doesn't work, check file permissions. Remove the file when done, it makes life easier for attackers.
[21:05:33] <RoanKattouw>	We have !phpinfo :O ? Awesome!
[21:05:43] <Duesentrieb>	:P
[21:07:33] <CIA-15>	03rainman * r50205 10/trunk/phase3/ (includes/DefaultSettings.php skins/common/mwsuggest.js): 
[21:07:33] <CIA-15>	Fix annoying bug with mwsuggest that makes it shown suggestions after search box has lost focus (which it shouldn't).
[21:07:33] <CIA-15>	Introduce additional attribute that tells the suggestion container that it should stay hidden.
[21:11:32] <jkapernicus>	brion: i changed the error page to a blank page I clicked on my newpage link and didn't get a 404 page, but I didn't get a create page either. Is there a file in the mediawiki folder that I can point the custome error to?
[21:11:42] <Watkec>	ok see:  http://rafb.net/p/N0ETmP82.html
[21:12:27] <RoanKattouw>	display_errors	On	On
[21:12:29] <RoanKattouw>	WTF
[21:12:53] <RoanKattouw>	Clearly display_errors is on
[21:13:01] <RoanKattouw>	error_reporting	6135	6135
[21:13:20] <RoanKattouw>	And error_reporting is set pretty high; you should be seeing your errors, no idea why you're not getting them
[21:14:22] <rainman_>	does anyone by any chance knows how the code review goes?
[21:14:26] <Watkec>	hmmm, what next
[21:14:48] <RoanKattouw>	rainman_: Tim is busy reviewing backport candidates and stuff, getting ready for the 1.15rc1 release, should be tomorrow he says
[21:15:18] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: I don't know, I'm baffled
[21:15:27] <rainman_>	RoanKattouw, hmz, but no scaps in near future
[21:15:29] <rainman_>	?
[21:16:04] <RoanKattouw>	rainman_: brion (PING!) has been doing a fair bit of review the last few days, so I expect a scap son
[21:16:09] <RoanKattouw>	*soon
[21:16:19] <Watkec>	RoanKattouw:  i am baffled too, do you think it is a php problem, or a mediawiki problem?
[21:16:30] <RoanKattouw>	I have no idea
[21:16:40] <Watkec>	by php i mean the server etc
[21:16:55] <RoanKattouw>	I'm inclined to think it's some weird MediaWiki problem, because that missing semicolon earlier did trigger that T_IF error
[21:17:34] <Watkec>	ok. is there someone that i can turn to troubleshoot further?
[21:17:56] <Watkec>	are there "mediawiki support professionals" for hire somewhere?
[21:18:09] <RoanKattouw>	rainman_: If you have made revisions after r48811 that fix bugs introduced before r48811, you should tag it with the "backportme" tag on CodeReview and bug Tim to make sure he looks at it
[21:18:25] <RoanKattouw>	You're looking at the MW support professionals :P
[21:18:35] <Duesentrieb>	fatal errors are often not show, especially if they happen early.
[21:18:36] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: Which version of MediaWiki are you running?
[21:18:41] <Duesentrieb>	look in the *log*
[21:18:53] <RoanKattouw>	Duesentrieb: When he had a missing semicolon in LocalSettings, he did get a visible error
[21:18:55] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Remove Uncyclopedia from interwiki list - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18683 minor; Normal; Wikimedia: Interwiki links; (matthew.britton)
[21:19:02] <RoanKattouw>	But yeah, look in the log
[21:19:16] <Watkec>	1.14.0
[21:19:23] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm recent enough
[21:19:37] <Duesentrieb>	he did? i didn't see the error message posted
[21:19:55] <Watkec>	you can see the whole profile at:  http://216.14.114.163/~iicmnet/cyclopedia/wiki/index.php/Special:Version
[21:19:59] <RoanKattouw>	That was a couple hours back
[21:20:07] <RoanKattouw>	Grep the chanlogs for "PASTEBIN" ;)
[21:20:59] <Duesentrieb>	that page ios gone now (404)
[21:21:22] <RoanKattouw>	You mean the pastebin page?
[21:21:30] <RoanKattouw>	It was just a localsettings file with a missing semicolon
[21:21:52] <Duesentrieb>	the one with the error in it
[21:22:28] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: You've got a lot of extensions installed. Could you try commenting out all require_once() lines associated with extensions and see if that solves the problem
[21:22:35] <RoanKattouw>	(commenting out means putting // in front of the line)
[21:23:11] <Watkec>	i could but i don't think that is the problem because all of the wikis in the interwiki share the same list -- and none of the others have a problem
[21:23:44] <Watkec>	they are all pulling from the same "common_extensions.php" file
[21:24:27] <Watkec>	wikibugs:  you mention "Uncyclopedia" -- i shouldn't have a "Uncyclopedia" in the interwiki list that i know of
[21:24:58] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Remove Uncyclopedia from interwiki list - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18683  +comment (10pathoschild+wmbugs)
[21:25:10] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: wikibugs is a bot reporting changes in our bug tracker :)
[21:25:33] <Watkec>	oooh, nothing like egg on the face .....
[21:25:47] <RoanKattouw>	Hmm
[21:25:57] <RoanKattouw>	Watkec: Have you looked in the server logs yet? Apache error log?
[21:26:17] <Watkec>	no not yet -- let me see what's there ... brb
[21:29:12] <jkapernicus>	update, I pointed the 404 error to localsettings.php and it worked. I can now edit my new page. Is that a good fix or have I just gotten lucky?
[21:29:42] <RoanKattouw>	I'm very surprised that that works, but if it works, it works :P
[21:35:59] <CIA-15>	03thomasv * r50206 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/proofread.js: scrollbar
[21:59:17] <nick_h[litage]>	when inheriting from the AuthPlugin class, is setPassword() supposed to set the local MW password, or the password in the external authentication system?:  http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/AuthPlugin.php?view=markup
[22:19:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Windows PHP 5.2.6 precompiled binaries and Postgresql numeric version - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16937  +comment (10karun)
[22:48:37] <chuck>	brion: Is Wikia's rich text editor going to be modified so that it can be run on regular MediaWiki installs?
[22:49:02] <brion>	anything's possible
[22:49:44] <evilution>	Hello, I was wondering if anyone here could give any advice on how to achive high availability with Mediawiki and mysql?  We currently have 2 web servers load balanced with a single mysql master and slave.  We would like to implement some failover on the mysql side in case the master crashes.  Couple you tell me how you handle mysql failures?
[22:52:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Images accessibility with gallery, alt= doesn't exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18682  (10bury.rodan)
[23:02:26] <brion>	evilution: we switch masters manually
[23:02:41] <brion>	we don't have a huge call for automated switching for something which is fairly rare at the moment
[23:03:04] <brion>	what are your actual requirements?
[23:03:39] <evilution>	well at a high level "no single point of failure"
[23:04:48] <tomaszf>	automatic failures can be a bit scary if you think a master is down but it's really not. leading to a split brain condition. 
[23:05:23] <brion>	evilution: unless you're going to spend a *huge* amount of money i doubt you'll get that :)
[23:05:32] <brion>	what's the basis for your requirement?
[23:05:39] <brion>	if you have downtime, what happens?
[23:06:04] <brion>	what's "no single point of failure" worth to you?
[23:06:09] <brion>	multiple network uplinks
[23:06:10] <brion>	redundant power
[23:06:13] <brion>	separate data centers?
[23:06:17] <evilution>	sec
[23:07:34] <CIA-15>	03rainman * r50207 10/trunk/phase3/ (7 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[23:07:34] <CIA-15>	Redesign of the "new search UI" per Trevor's design plans from usability wiki:
[23:07:34] <CIA-15>	* simplify everything, move search box to top
[23:07:34] <CIA-15>	* move header below it and make it google-style
[23:07:34] <CIA-15>	* move styles from monobook into shared since people didn't really customize it
[23:07:35] <CIA-15>	* remove some old unused stuff like default+project namespaces and such
[23:07:39] <CIA-15>	Things to do still:
[23:08:18] <CIA-15>	03rainman * r50208 10/trunk/extensions/MWSearch/MWSearch_body.php: Smarter searchall handling, don't rewrite the all prefix but have an extra argument
[23:12:14] <CIA-15>	03rainman * r50209 10/branches/lucene-search-2.1/src/org/wikimedia/lsearch/ (analyzers/WikiQueryParser.java search/SearchEngine.java): 
[23:12:14] <CIA-15>	Minor stuff:
[23:12:14] <CIA-15>	* more restrictive wildcards
[23:12:14] <CIA-15>	* support searchall query parameter
[23:14:43] <flaccid>	hey guys how to escape hashes in code?
[23:14:57] <flaccid>	do i have to html encode or something. i want it to display as a hash and not a line number..
[23:16:27] <Reedy>	<nowiki>#</nowiki> should work
[23:23:24] <flaccid>	thanks Reedy. i just ended up using <pre> instead of of <code> 
[23:33:19] <CIA-15>	03rainman * r50210 10/trunk/phase3/skins/common/mwsuggest.js: Addendum for r50205, also explicitly cancel any pending fetches just to be sure.
[23:39:33] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) search "Results 1-2 of 2" but only one - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12049  +comment (10rainman)
[23:41:18] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Special:Search may return duplicate results - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12237  (10rainman)
[23:42:56] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) no text in search results when the match is up to diacritics - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13849  +comment (10rainman)
[23:43:04] <Marybelle>	:O
[23:43:29] *Reedy 	closes Marybelles mouth
[23:45:00] <Marybelle>	:|
[23:54:44] <charitwo>	Reedy: who is Magioladitis and can I stab him in the face