[00:00:24] Ah.. How about If i create my own namespaces, they dont show up in the AllPages [00:02:12] nm.. found $wgExtraNamespaces [00:04:59] 03(mod) Articles created by autoeditors are not marked as autoreviewed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19206 (10JSchulz_4587) [00:10:34] 03(mod) Articles created by autoeditors are not marked as autoreviewed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19206 (10JSchulz_4587) [00:34:01] hi, question about security. why is it that special:userrights doesnt have a ->isBlocked() check in it to prevent blocked bureaucrats from just creating another account and adding sysop/else rights to it and continue causing havok? [00:34:23] uberfuzzy: because bureaucrats can also just unblock themselves [00:34:38] heh [00:34:56] Skizzerz: but opt-in 'user' groups can spam recent changes with rights changes that can not be blocked [00:34:59] this is a valid concern [00:35:23] true [00:35:41] *Skizzerz is too lazy [00:35:46] to care [00:35:56] anything that can cause log actions, recent changes entries, or other logged changes, should be blocked when a user is blocked [00:36:19] Splarka: you're siding with wikia, what's wrong with you? :P [00:36:25] (so, like not prefs) [00:36:29] Skizzerz: I brought this up before wikia did [00:36:41] heh [00:36:51] then why hasn't it been fixed? [00:37:02] because devs are lazy fskers [00:37:07] :o [00:37:08] so true [00:37:19] it just seems kinda strange after "(bug 15642) Blocked sysops can no longer block other users" [00:37:20] Skizzerz: take some initiative [00:37:24] uberfuzzy: make a patch against current trunk? :) [00:37:33] 2008-10-17 [05:42:13] hey Werdna, thoughts on http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/rights ? should access to Userrights be blocked by blocked users? (my opinion is: anything that affects recent changes should be, except unblock of course). Obviously most wikis won't give access to userrights to regular users, but some might, and it is a bit spammily abusable [00:37:37] dont have a mw dev setup anymore :( [00:37:43] phooey [00:38:02] but that means I'd have to do what charitwo told me to [00:38:08] and that is simply unacceptable [00:38:12] :D [00:38:25] {{somotivateyourself}} [00:38:26] charitwo: reverse psych [00:38:40] Splarka: don't learn php [00:38:46] k [00:38:55] *Splarka doesn't [00:39:05] PHP Sucks! [00:39:07] OverlordQ: the issue is not with me taking initiative, it's with charitwo saying I should ;) [00:39:10] oh wait, reverse psychology [00:39:15] PHP is awesome! [00:39:29] yes, in theory, doesnt solve the issue that they can likely unblock them selves, unless they were under some sort of magical un-undoable regex powered block :P [00:39:45] regex powered block? [00:39:50] zomg regexblock [00:40:13] so, it would be worth while to cram a user->isBlocked() in there for now? [00:40:27] uberfuzzy: or if my planned user rights edits don't get reverted, you could make a 'blocked' autopromote group that revokes the right to unblock [00:40:34] :) [00:40:57] that would be nice... [00:41:07] so would user rights in the api (/waits for 1.15) [00:41:14] I actually have it all written, just a matter of updating release notes and committing [00:41:26] wait for 1.15? [00:41:35] wikia is on 1.14.0 [00:41:37] OverlordQ: wikia is slow [00:41:40] ah [00:41:44] due to massive amounts of core hax [00:41:44] poor wikia [00:41:55] wikia has a lot of custom stuff that breaks on upgrades, so it takes a while [00:42:02] because they don't know how to commit their custom hooks [00:42:04] *Splarka guesses some things can't be blocked if user is blocked, like automatic account creation, or abuse log filter triggers, but user rights changes should be, dammit [00:42:31] Splarka: uh... do abuse log filter triggers work on more than just edits? [00:42:51] if not, then those would be blocked anyway since said blocked user would be unable to edit [00:43:09] moves [00:43:10] Skizzerz: editing your own talk page when blocked, for example [00:43:14] ah [00:44:09] *Splarka doesn't see an open bug for it [00:45:49] Skizzerz: so, any reason you can think of not to? I mean, anyone who has full access to userrights can probably unblock themselves... one exception would be a blocked bureaucrat who is not 'sysop' though [00:46:26] well, there are also people with partial access to userrights that wouldn't be unable to block themselves, but would be unable to spam rc with right grants/revokes [00:46:47] or hand out rights/rolls to tons of people... [00:46:54] which is even more tedious to cleanup [00:47:03] so, perhaps only check user->isBlocked() if the user does not have 'userrights' right [00:47:09] eg, partial access to userrights [00:47:15] or check it regardless :) [00:47:20] this would give default bureaucrats (but not on WMF) ability to change rights when blocked [00:47:22] i would check it regardless [00:47:27] if someone has bcrat without having sysop, that's just weird [00:47:48] Skizzerz: happens sometimes though, heh [00:47:52] yeah [00:47:59] but so what? [00:48:19] it could be deliberate, even [00:48:26] scenario: [00:48:40] abusive bcrat is being abusive [00:48:43] so someone will complain "I can't unblock myself and I can't +sysop myself but I am bureaucrat" here [00:48:50] heh [00:49:09] fine [00:49:10] nice bcrat comes along and sees said abuse, and blocks abusive bcrat. Nice bcrat also takes away abusive bcrat's +sysop so he can't just unblock himself [00:49:12] so always check it [00:49:17] but forgets to take away the bcrat [00:49:25] Skizzerz: abusive bureaucrat can take away crat on all other crats [00:49:31] before being a crat-hole [00:49:42] I didn't say my scenario wasn't flawed [00:49:57] just very very unlikely, heh [00:49:58] also [00:50:08] !sqlrights [00:50:08] --mwbot-- I don't know anything about "sqlrights". [00:50:22] ack, whatever it is called, just tells how to insert 'bureaucrat' [00:50:35] so anyone using it probably isn't immediately a sysop, so would have to add sysop later [00:50:36] yeah, I've done that before a few times :) [00:50:40] so, in a nutshell, this is a bad thing right? [00:50:48] uberfuzzy: it is a good(tm) thing [00:51:18] either way, I can't implement it now since I have some other modifications to Special:UserRights that I have yet to commit due to their controversial nature (aka I want approval from brion and tim) [00:52:25] actually, the SpecialUserrights changes aren't controversial, it's just another two hooks :P [00:52:30] I just think the optimum situation would be: anyone with UserRights access via $wgAddGroups $wgRemoveGroups $wgGroupsRemoveFromSelf $wgGroupPermissions only, should be blocked if blocked [00:52:44] unless they have 'userrights' right on their group, then they shouldn't [00:52:52] yeah, that's what I'd do [00:53:08] er, $wgGroupsAddToSelf not $wgGroupPermissions [00:53:41] uberfuzzy: wanna open the bug? [00:53:48] Splarka: don't bother [00:53:51] er [00:53:53] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17014 [00:54:06] I won't Skizzerz, but not because you say [00:59:09] uberfuzzy-> [00:59:10] 03(mod) Blocked users can use Special:UserRights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17014 (10herd) [01:00:05] [brion] . o O (uhoh, Splarka is prodding bugs again, I better leave!) [01:17:13] ... [01:17:24] why did my computer have to randomly restart in the middle of a svn up >_> [01:30:08] because i willed it to do so? [01:33:11] yeah, but I had to delete some directories in order for svn cleanup to work so I could finish the update [01:33:18] granted, I enjoyed deleting the languages directory [01:33:26] but there are better uses of my time :) [02:14:12] 03skizzerz * r52082 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [02:14:12] * (bug 17014) Blocked users can no longer use Special:UserRights if they do [02:14:12] not have the 'userrights' permission. [02:14:12] * Add hook 'UserrightsGetCheckboxes' to give extensions the ability to modify [02:14:12] the arrangement of checkboxes on the Special:UserRights form [02:14:13] * Add hook 'UserrightsSaveUserGroups' to give extensions the ability to modify [02:14:15] the groups being added and removed last-minute. [02:14:24] Ah... [02:15:09] uberfuzzy ^ [02:16:15] get checkboxes? [02:16:58] uberfuzzy: it's for an extension that I'm revising -- basically puts global group management on the same Userrights form [02:17:03] instead of a sep. special page [02:17:12] :) [02:17:18] Skizzerz: is that meant for WMF use? [02:17:39] it could be [02:17:52] if WMF wants CentralAuth to be that way [02:19:00] 03(mod) Blocked users can use Special:UserRights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17014 +comment (10skizzerz) [02:19:04] er, duh [02:19:22] 03(FIXED) Blocked users can use Special:UserRights - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17014 (10skizzerz) [02:19:32] forgot to set FIXED :P [02:19:42] the global rights and centralauth forms need lots of love, hint hint [02:20:12] the other hook I added would allow said extension to prevent global groups from being assigned locally :) [02:20:29] since both local and global would be part of the same form [02:20:38] albeit a different column [02:22:45] erwhat? there's no correspondance between local and global user groups [02:23:41] with the two hooks I added, it would allow one to forego a sep. special page for global groups and integrate it into the Special:UserRights page [02:24:25] for example, you could add another column so you'd have "Changeable groups", "Unchangeable groups", and "Global groups" [02:24:41] but how would you define what rights a global group has? [02:24:52] you'd need a special page for that :) [02:25:29] well, I don't really understand, but whatever :D [02:25:38] this would only affect assigning the rights [02:25:47] 03(NEW) Early user contributions are incorrectly flagged as "new" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19271 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (snottygobble) [02:26:33] Mike_lifeguard: it makes Special:GlobalGroupMembership obsolete [02:26:42] by integrating it into Special:UserRights [02:27:11] then I like it :D [02:27:44] btw, does anyone know why stewards can't assign rights like rollback? [02:28:33] are you editing it at the correct wiki? [02:28:36] you'd think that having 'userrights-interwiki' would actually mean you can change userrights from another wiki... but it doesn't apparently [02:28:54] e.g. edit User:Mike_lifeguard@enwiki [02:29:00] well, from Meta, a steward should have access to change any and all available userrights for User@wiki [02:29:04] yeah [02:29:28] aha [02:29:36] there's a list of rights, but it's wrong... for example 'flood' doesn't exist on enwiki, and 'rollback' doesn't appear at all [02:29:37] it builds the list of groups as if you were editing it locally anyway [02:29:48] yay, so it's just wrong and I can file a bug :) [02:29:51] open a bug on that :) [02:30:02] *Skizzerz would love to attempt to tackle it [02:30:27] since userrights related things seem to be where the bulk of my commits are [02:31:13] what do you recommend for a user that has a username that predates userrights-interwiki ? just rename ? [02:31:25] sure [02:31:55] or change $wgUserrightsInterwikiDelimiter to something else [02:32:01] :P [02:32:16] while you can no longer use @ in usernames, he can still login and edit with it. but userrights had to be assigned backend and not via the form [02:32:28] or change $wgUserrightsInterwikiDelimiter to something else [02:32:40] that global controls what character is used to check for interwiki modification [02:32:53] charitwo: I think you can use userid [02:32:57] through the form [02:33:00] really? [02:33:07] let me check [02:33:18] so if you change it from @ to # (since # was never allowed in usernames), you could then edit somuser@blah locally [02:33:47] There is no user by the name "184532". Check your spelling. [02:34:15] charitwo: #184532 [02:34:20] needs to start w/ # [02:34:29] 03(NEW) Special:Userrights/User@wiki presents the wrong list of user groups for changing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19272 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (mike.lifeguard) [02:34:38] I'm not sure how well I've described that bug :\ [02:34:46] I know what it means :P [02:34:47] ah, that works [02:35:03] charitwo: of course it does, I had the php file open and was checking it :P [02:35:07] its also a dupe [02:35:17] i've seen the other one when we had that problem with @ [02:35:25] its uh... [02:35:49] how do you see the userid of another user without db access or asking them ? [02:36:00] charitwo: dunno [02:36:01] :) [02:36:07] good question here: my upload form wont upload nothing, it just returns with a blank form [02:36:45] charitwo: there is a way... check in the stewards' handbook on Meta [02:36:46] tried everything, can't make it work [02:37:05] probably using the api you can get it easily enough [02:37:27] heh [02:37:42] actually, I was thinking about using the api as a means of getting the remote wiki's group listing [02:37:55] since group permissions aren't stored in the database [02:39:01] *Mike_lifeguard notes that despite making an effort he still messed up "rights" vs "user groups" in that bug description :P [02:39:28] anyone have any idea, please? [02:41:29] 03(mod) Captcha in the latin script fails people who do not do Latin - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19229 (10matthew.britton) [02:42:29] ok, my bad, there wasnt another ticket, it was someone suggesting i file a ticket to get around it [02:45:33] cmon can anyone help, im desperate [02:50:08] god help me [02:50:29] 03skizzerz * r52083 10/trunk/phase3/ (11 files in 5 dirs): [02:50:29] * Add autopromote condition APCOND_BLOCKED to autopromote blocked users to various user groups. [02:50:29] * Add $wgRemoveGroups as a means of restricting a group's rights. The syntax is identical to $wgGroupPermissions, but users in these groups will have these rights stripped from them. [02:50:29] * Modify Special:ListGroupRights so that it displays revoked permissions as well (the display of assigned vs. revoked is changeable via css). [02:50:32] * Bump $wgStyleVersion [02:51:12] 03(mod) AntiSpoof blocks usernames too aggressively - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8257 +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [02:51:14] 03(mod) AntiSpoof blocks usernames too aggressively - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8257 (10mike.lifeguard) [02:51:35] *Skizzerz afks [02:52:08] 03(mod) AntiSpoof should check against CentralAuth database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15545 summary; +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [02:54:16] 03(NEW) AntiSpoof doesn't actually stop simple spoofing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19273 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AntiSpoof; (mike.lifeguard) [02:55:06] Skizzerz: I like that commit too :) [03:14:12] Mike_lifeguard: the handbook worked great with finding user id, thanks [03:16:55] Skizzerz: question, i though $wgRemoveGroups was already used, as who can remove what groups from who via special:userrights [03:24:19] charitwo: remind me how that's done? [03:24:24] uberfuzzy: yes, it is :\ [03:24:35] ah, he meant, wgRevokePermissions [03:24:54] ah, that's better [03:27:56] Mike_lifeguard: exported the last page the user edited which was the latest revision, edited the XML and searched for then [03:28:24] ah, right [03:28:49] too bad its not returned via the api in list=allusers [03:36:51] uberfuzzy: oh, right [03:36:52] >_> [03:38:14] 03skizzerz * r52084 10/trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES: * Fix typo in RELEASE-NOTES introduced in r52083: meant $wgRevokePermissions, not $wgRemoveGroups [03:38:41] hey can someone help me out? [03:45:41] !ask [03:45:41] --mwbot-- Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. See also: !gethelp [03:45:44] oops he left [04:19:32] 03(mod) API: user IDs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19195 (10herd) [04:41:24] What the hell... [04:42:15] :o [04:43:32] "Make user IDs are readily available with the API" [04:43:35] s/are/more [04:44:05] 03(mod) Make user IDs more readily available with the API - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19195 summary (10public) [04:48:01] Splarka, why did you replace fancy ’s in bug 18860 with ugly 's? [04:50:05] easier to read without unicode... "but everyone can support unicode" "but those that can't can now see it fine, as can everyone else, everbody wins" [04:50:39] It's cute when you debate yourself. [04:51:38] and it is not cute that you are the master at debating [04:51:54] Master-debator? [04:52:09] Annemarie: why did you change that summary? it was perfectly obvious what he meant to anyone who cares [04:52:18] Because it really wasn't. [04:52:24] API: user IDs doesn't say anything. [04:52:30] and 'more readily' is a misnomer, they are not available at all really [04:52:49] You could want a variety of things. [04:52:51] 1 is more than 0. [04:52:56] (except to the logged in user, for themselves) [04:53:44] 1 is less than 10 million [04:54:39] 1 is the loneliest number. [04:54:40] Splarka, “everyone can support Unicode”, yes, and those who can’t must go out until they’re able [04:55:05] lovely [04:55:46] isnâ€™t it nice to have unicode support [04:56:01] The problem with fancy quotes is that they're hard to search for using ctrl-F, etc. [04:56:19] They're non-standard and provide no extra useful ability beside looking pretty. [04:56:23] As opposed to ü or whatever. [04:56:25] who searches for “doesn’t”? [04:56:47] "API’s behavior is broken"? [04:56:53] There are an infinite number of possibilities. [04:56:54] it isnâ€™t as if nobody ever will [04:57:08] and it isnâ€™t as if ' is ambiguous [04:57:11] *Annemarie throws a shoe at Splarka. [04:57:32] Annemarie, this is an example of a bad bug summary :) [04:57:51] It was made-up. [04:58:17] 03tstarling * r52085 10/trunk/extensions/CentralAuth/CentralAuthHooks.php: Fix a DB error which occurs on Wikimedia every time there is replication lag: check the master for local user existence before attempting an INSERT INTO user, don't trust the slave for existence data. [04:58:41] anyway, everyone here must love Unicode, especially in Wikimedia :) [04:58:55] 03tstarling * r52086 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/updaters.inc: Fix typo in filename [04:59:19] enhydra: but not on IRC [04:59:51] Splarka, why? [04:59:59] because there are no specs to indicate encoding [05:00:17] and I bet your client doesn't just assume unicode [05:00:23] hmm.. lemme find a cogent paradigm [05:00:26] what do you see here: � [05:00:35] a broken character [05:00:57] ew, irssi [05:01:09] anyone got x-chat? what do you see there? [05:01:27] you shouldn’t “ew” at irssi :) [05:01:44] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_to_Russia_with_krokozyabry.jpg [05:02:02] and you shouldnâ€™t spam IRC with needless unicode [05:02:29] wat [05:02:29] 0072 r latin small letter r [05:02:29] 0065 e latin small letter e [05:02:29] 003A : colon [05:02:29] 0020 SP space [05:02:29] recode: Invalid input in step `CHAR..ISO-10646-UCS-2' [05:02:40] heh [05:03:31] enhydra: because IRC is lacking any encoding specs, people often come in and talk in Cyrillic 1251 [05:04:40] if someone comes to #wikipedia-ru with their 1251, we gently point that they should set UTF-8 (and there is a warning in the topic) [05:05:18] luckily, chatzilla and some more clients assume utf-8 by default, as they should [05:05:35] "assume utf-8 by default, as they should" is debatable [05:05:45] I've got xchat, it uses UTF-8 [05:05:51] Splarka, perhaps [05:05:57] TimStarling: what do you see here: � [05:06:09] yen [05:06:22] okay, paste that back to me [05:06:33] ¥¥¥ [05:06:37] yens! [05:06:39] yenyenyen [05:06:44] okay, what do you see here: ¥ [05:06:48] yen again? [05:06:50] a yen! [05:06:51] yes [05:06:52] okay [05:06:56] has anyone heard of a way you can get a wiki to search for an IP, rather than searching for a user with that IP address? [05:07:01] now what do you see here: � ¥ [05:07:30] yen (A circumflex)yen [05:07:33] right [05:07:43] that was x-chat trying to be clever [05:07:52] lemme show you what actually happened [05:08:29] Splarka, these are fallbacks, I guess? [05:08:35] (and you can make fun of my irc client and my font choice at the same time) [05:09:01] Splarka: at :05 my client says incompatible encoding (but still displays the character properly. [05:09:15] at :06, it displays it properly without the compatibility warning. [05:09:28] ... if imageshack ever replies [05:09:39] `recode ..dump` fails at the broken yen :) [05:10:30] http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7573/yens.gif [05:11:17] looks reasonable to me [05:11:24] right, but it does not assume unicode [05:11:35] as IRC is character soup [05:11:43] mmm, soup [05:11:47] Sрlаrkа — what do you see in this line? [05:12:23] S р l а r k а [05:12:23] уаrrr [05:12:35] pic please? :) [05:12:37] you have mIRC? why don't you set it to UTF-8 mode? [05:12:47] :O [05:12:48] because it is old, and I can't read unicode [05:12:49] morning [05:12:55] Morning. [05:12:56] and i can just copy-paste to an .htm if I need to read it, but I don't [05:13:07] doesn't cost much to upgrade does it? [05:13:10] I actually find it easier to debug this way [05:13:43] what do you need to debug in IRC? :) [05:13:55] like that guy who came in yesterday, I could see his autsummary arrow was not valid unicode [05:14:35] I used to use mIRC before it had unicode support, I used to switch to chatzilla when I had to read non-english text [05:14:59] chatzilla has a configurable charset so you can go into the ISO 2022 japanese channels here on freenode and not get garbage [05:15:12] why would I wanna read Sрlаrkа — ? it isn't my name, it is a spoofing [05:15:28] (and lack of unicode makes it instantly obvious) [05:16:05] I did try looking for a switch to turn off IP-user behavior, but I'm not seeing one anywhere. [05:16:14] besides, I'd have to download a unicode font or something, lemme know when one exists complete [05:16:23] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ap14FtNN91w/SBzrtHJfLnI/AAAAAAAAA5U/TV7_g2_sWq0/s320/Unicode2.gif and when the blue line hits 100% [05:16:27] if he'd known you were using such a broken client he would have used SpIarka instead [05:16:37] fixedys excelsior is close [05:16:51] ew, fixedsys [05:16:52] so's freemono [05:17:22] TimStarling: "broken" ? [05:17:22] Lemme know when you need a complete one. [05:17:49] Splarka, it will never hit 100% because of you! [05:17:49] It's a cute goal, but nobody needs a complete set. [05:18:28] enhydra: good ^_^ [05:19:37] BOM! [05:20:46] Rage. [05:20:58] *Splarka deletes a Windows-1251 spam... coincidence? [05:22:13] Subject: �a��-�e�e�� [05:22:24] hey MZM: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Splarka/stupid_bug_names did you finish these yet? [05:22:49] Nope. [05:22:54] I'll need to change my Bugzilla prefs first. [05:23:03] Getting added to the CC list on random bugs isn't fun. :-/ [05:23:56] do you guys remember that page where it compares the different versions of mediawiki to models of planes? [05:24:28] InShaneee: oh, you mean how Special:Search automatically assumes anything matching IP regex should go to Special:Contributions? [05:24:42] chuck: yah, some asshole made that [05:25:17] crap [05:25:37] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/1::1 <-- but as they were saying, this is really annoying [05:26:00] 03(mod) Captcha in the latin script fails people who do not do Latin - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19229 (10Gerard.meijssen) [05:26:05] chuck: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Splarka/trunk [05:26:21] heh :P [05:27:57] and to all who think my mirc is broken for lacking unicode that I wouldn't be able to read anyway: get off my lawn [05:28:11] *Splarka waves cane menacingly [05:32:31] 03(NEW) Enable AbuseFilter on Lithuanian Wikipedia. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19274 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (vpovilaitis) [05:38:11] it doesn't lack unicode, they added it in 6.17 [05:38:32] and I have 6.12, so it isn't broken [05:45:24] *AaronSchulz upgraded IE8 to IE7 [05:46:31] http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5917/seussscreen.jpg [05:50:08] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9837180-17.html [05:50:16] 'In case you haven't tried it out just yet, the best way I can describe SP3 is that it's Vista without the crap. Amazingly, Microsoft has said that SP3 features about 1,073 fixes and adds some nifty features from Vista to make the experience far better.' [05:50:22] *AaronSchulz burst out laughing [05:51:07] http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ [05:51:22] oh god, those permission errors were the first thing I turned off [05:51:27] I mean WTF??? [05:52:28] Annemarie: how about making IE less crap instead...that might attract some more people [05:52:44] I had to rollback due to DPI breakage [05:52:49] I use Firefox on a Mac. [05:52:56] You'll have to direct your complaints elsewhere. :-) [05:54:12] what is that you say? you use the netscape-derived mozilla engine on an intel chip with linux-based operating system? [05:55:22] Right. [05:55:40] *Annemarie waits for the point to become obvious. [05:56:09] haha [05:56:16] Splarka: I prefer a KHTML derivitive engine on a powerpc chip with a linux-based operating system [05:56:36] I prefer "same crap, different case sticker" [05:57:05] Putting stickers on computers was never a good idea. [05:58:09] more core 2 exteme sticker is cute [05:58:11] I mean, you could respect a mac user before OSX and before Intel, while laughing at them [05:58:31] hmm, I also have a vista sticker [05:58:42] Splarka: I'm still lost. [05:58:49] indeed [05:58:50] How does this relate to IE or Microsoft? [05:59:08] MediaWiki should be more like Knol is [05:59:20] Knol is so easy to use with it's WYSIWYG editor and all of that [05:59:22] What is Knol [05:59:32] http://enwp.org/Knol [05:59:44] it's google's knowledge sharing thing [06:00:24] kinda like wikipedia but with moar for-profit-ness [06:02:37] hrmm, Knol isnt competing against wikipedia, its competing against MediaWiki, but whatever [06:02:59] Er. [06:03:27] Can anyone run their own Knol? [06:03:37] rook2pawn: while that's not exactly true, i would say that knol isn't really competing at all, as it's kind of crap [06:03:40] no [06:03:42] (im assuming thats what it [06:03:43] TimStarling: can you check http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52075 ? [06:03:45] oh, then its garbage [06:03:47]