[00:00:15] <atglenn>	thedj: what do you mean, for another language? ?uselang=de  (for example)? or something else?
[00:00:20] <mdale>	anyway gtg...
[00:00:55] <thedj>	atglenn: ah bingo. thanks.
[00:01:08] <atglenn>	sure, have fun
[00:01:39] <thedj>	atglenn: i was thinking in the order of Special:AllMessages/de, had not considered the ?uselang= trick there.
[00:02:51] <atglenn>	yeah the /de is good for mediawiki namespace pages but not for specialpages
[00:03:26] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53023 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/ (OptIn.css OptIn.js SpecialOptIn.php): Made the form so sweet you could put it in a bowl of cheerios!
[00:03:36] <thedj>	rofl.
[00:03:47] <Splarka>	someone could probably enable it if they wanted to
[00:15:16] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53025 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/ (OptIn.css OptIn.i18n.php SpecialOptIn.php): Made the form look a bit better and added a link to the opt out button.
[00:19:45] <Splarka>	did something change in the message system lately, causing variants to adopt all the defaults from their fallback language's /languages/messages/ file, with a higher precedence than on-site defined messages? like en-gb on en.wp MediaWiki:Otherlanguages is ignored and 'otherlanguages' from messages/MessagesEn.php is being used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Otherlanguages/en-gb  (which is not defined in messages/MessagesEn_gb.php)
[00:21:17] <demon|afkforabit>	thedj: No, it doesn't work. There's a bug about it.
[00:23:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Extend cascading protection to shared media repositories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19625  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[00:26:48] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53026 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: Fixed some issues with's in a form and not. Also enforced 80char line breaks.
[00:26:52] <avar>	Splarka: Yes. Tim changed it
[00:27:37] <CIA-58>	03demon * r53027 10/branches/maintenance-work/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
[00:27:37] <CIA-58>	* Refactor all of InitStats crap into SiteStatsInit class. Update all code using this as needed.
[00:27:37] <CIA-58>	** TODO: Remove ss_admins, nothing really uses it since we have numberingroup(), also make good articles mirror logic elsewhere, per bug 11868 comment #16
[00:27:37] <CIA-58>	* Port findhooks, alltrans
[00:27:48] <avar>	Yes as in that's the only recent behavioural change I know about so it's probably causing whatever you think changed, I don't understand the change exactly.
[00:28:16] <^demon>	I hope I can finish this branch and polish it up before the new semester starts.
[00:31:08] <CIA-58>	03demon * r53028 10/branches/maintenance-work/includes/SiteStats.php: Fix doAllAndCommit() call.
[00:39:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) $wgFlaggedRevsPatrolNamespaces has no effect in watchlists - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19241  (10JSchulz_4587)
[00:45:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Adding logo to Tamil Wikinews - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19619  +comment (10trengarasu)
[01:06:00] <Simetrical>	Is there some way to tell whether a dev's mediawiki.org account is linked to their commit name?
[01:06:26] <^demon>	Simetrical: When you go to /author/name it will say it.
[01:06:45] <Simetrical>	Ah, nice.
[01:06:49] <^demon>	"This author is linked to the wiki user ^demon (Talk | contribs | block) (unlink?) "
[01:08:09] <^demon>	All devs should be linked IMO so they get email notifications.
[01:14:34] <AaronSchulz>	^demon: Do you know of a site that gives a no-bullshit assessment of why emissions cuts are needed? 
[01:15:09] <avar>	AaronSchulz: http://www.withouthotair.com/
[01:15:18] <avar>	I have that book in paper form, it's great
[01:15:19] <AaronSchulz>	I just want a list of the negative effects over the next 200 years
[01:15:20] <^demon>	AaronSchulz: Can't say that I do.
[01:15:34] <AaronSchulz>	none of that 1000 year prediction stuff slipped in eihter
[01:17:22] *AaronSchulz 	views the 10mb pdf
[01:19:03] <avar>	the html is imo better
[01:20:17] <Morbus>	g'day. i just upgraded from 1.13 to 1.15 and now my wiki seems really slow to load pages. is there anything i should look for, and do other people have this problem at http://www.videounderbelly.com/wiki/ (NSFW)
[01:20:43] <avar>	AaronSchulz: Essentially the whole thing can be summed up by looking at this: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c1/page_6.shtml and observing that it's not very chilly on the planet Venus
[01:21:31] <GreenReaper>	It's taking quite a long time to generate pages. Is the server overloaded, or perhaps you don't have APC installed?
[01:21:33] <Danwe>	hi
[01:21:56] <^demon>	Morbus: It's loading fine for me, no real delay in anything.
[01:22:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) syntax to transclude a page without the containing page inheriting categories, interlanguage links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=835  (10aliter)
[01:22:13] <Morbus>	yeah, i just loaded it in firefox, and it's spiffy. must've been a safari issue,. will try there later.
[01:22:20] <Morbus>	trying to figure out why all my DPLs broken.
[01:22:31] <GreenReaper>	The main page has several b . . . yeah
[01:22:34] <Danwe>	is there a scheme I should name my own plugins config vars after? should I name them wgXXXX or something with my plugins name in it?
[01:22:59] <Morbus>	{{#dpl: namespace = Image }} seems to not be working, at its very basic - it returns things that are in the main namespace, and nothing in the Images. fun.
[01:23:11] <Morbus>	oh!
[01:23:14] <Morbus>	Image: was finally renamed to File?
[01:23:17] <Morbus>	maybe that's why.
[01:23:28] <^demon>	Yeah, but it should be a back-compat alias. Can't hurt to try though.
[01:23:34] <Morbus>	ooh, i hope it's that easy.
[01:24:15] <Morbus>	yeah, it was that easy. apparently, DPL doesn't play nicely with that back-compat :)
[01:24:21] <Simetrical>	I'm betting #dpl is doing a string compare on the namespace without normalizing it.
[01:24:35] <Simetrical>	Or not sufficiently.
[01:24:38] <Subfader>	they're still on 1.13. most examples are outdated
[01:25:17] *Morbus 	has to catch up on the changelog too.
[01:26:21] <^demon>	Simetrical: The guy who's handling DPL has a request for commit access. He's trying to finally get them all named right and support *1* extension in svn to end confusion.
[01:26:35] <Simetrical>	Mm.
[01:27:14] *Morbus 	goes back to try in Safari.
[01:27:48] <Morbus>	yeah, seems spiffy there again. must've been a fluke.
[01:27:50] <Morbus>	thanks for the help.
[01:34:22] <Subfader>	the new linkKnown() destroys a custom skin of mine. those links (mostly to history pages of an article) are treated like normal article links. that's not good :(
[01:34:32] <Simetrical>	Details?
[01:34:39] <Simetrical>	What exactly is the difference?
[01:35:07] <Subfader>	long live makeKnownLinkObj() :D
[01:35:18] <Simetrical>	makeKnownLinkObj() was horrifying.
[01:36:04] <Subfader>	article links use a special background, now also history links are styled like article links  e.g. on Special:MostRevisions or Special:LongPages
[01:37:56] <Subfader>	since a history page link is not an article link this is bad for me
[01:39:21] <Simetrical>	What is the actual HTML difference in the output links?
[01:39:39] <Simetrical>	link() is identical in effect to the old makeLink*() if you call it correctly.
[01:40:56] <Subfader>	not much difference i guess, just that my $customAttribs['style'] are added
[01:41:10] <Simetrical>	What?
[01:43:45] <Subfader>	the custom skin uses link() to add certain style attributes to article page links via $customAttribs['style']. Now since linkKnown() also history links on special pages are styled.
[01:45:26] <Subfader>	makes no sense?
[01:46:08] <Simetrical>	No, I really don't understand what you're talking about.
[01:46:11] <Simetrical>	You could show me the code.
[01:54:03] <Simetrical>	Oh, geez, Vector really went out of its way to change the skin file from Monobook, didn't it?
[01:55:12] <Annemarie>	Usability.
[01:55:27] <Simetrical>	I said the file, not the user-visible part.
[01:55:31] <Simetrical>	They totally rearranged the head.
[01:55:40] <Annemarie>	I was making a joke.
[01:55:41] <Simetrical>	Which I'm now going to stab and merge back with Monobook.
[01:55:47] <Simetrical>	Try harder next time.  :P
[01:56:11] <Annemarie>	:P
[02:13:18] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53029 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (Modern.php MonoBook.php Vector.php): 
[02:13:18] <CIA-58>	Finish cross-skin unification of <head>
[02:13:18] <CIA-58>	Vector and Modern are now using $wgOut->headElement(), finishing the
[02:13:18] <CIA-58>	work that r52864 started. -80 lines net.
[02:19:04] <timpuri>	hello
[02:24:17] <timpuri>	http://dpaste.org/jsqM/
[02:27:19] <timpuri>	^ patch, better VLC detection for OggHandler
[02:30:56] <gmaxwell>	timpuri, Thanks. 
[02:35:30] <gmaxwell>	timpuri, I'm curious as to which situation this improves however, the existing test should be a superset of your patch.
[02:35:41] <gmaxwell>	Since its already doing a case insensitive comparison.
[02:36:33] <gmaxwell>	ah, the dash case isn't covered however.
[02:36:37] <gmaxwell>	Is that seen in the wild?
[02:38:11] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) RandomInCategory gives "No such special page" post r48811 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19626 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: [other]; (mohamed.m.k)
[02:38:33] <timpuri>	sorry my limited english skills..
[02:39:50] <timpuri>	but old code did'nt detect VLC in some cases
[02:40:11] <timpuri>	it detects it as oggPlugin
[02:46:57] <timpuri>	for example WinXP, Firefox 3.0.11 with VLC plugin v.1.0.0 is detected as oggPlugin and it does'nt play ogg audio for some reason
[02:47:02] <gmaxwell>	timpuri, I have committed a simplified version of your patch. Thank you.
[02:47:13] <timpuri>	nice
[02:47:16] <timpuri>	thanks
[02:55:04] *Splarka 	bites CIA-58
[03:04:28] <gmaxwell>	no bite!
[03:04:44] <Alphos>	tastes good ?
[03:11:14] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Gadget Definition style in user prefs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19627 minor; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (subfader)
[03:11:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Gadget Definition style in user prefs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19627  (10subfader)
[03:15:55] <CIA-58>	03dantman * r53031 10/trunk/extensions/WikiCategoryTagCloud/WikiCategoryTagCloud.php: Bugfix from MW.org talkpage
[03:23:02] <CIA-58>	03dantman * r53032 10/trunk/extensions/WikiCategoryTagCloud/WikiCategoryTagCloud.php: MW.org talkpage "#Bug?", issue when message has something that doesn't return a proper title object.
[03:26:08] <Splarka>	gmaxwell: it skipped r53030
[03:26:15] *Splarka 	eats CIA-58
[03:26:15] *CIA-58 	tastes crunchy
[03:27:04] <gmaxwell>	It must not like UTF-8
[03:30:22] <Simetrical>	So, brion, how about trying out a switch to HTML 5?  The patch would be . . . two lines.
[03:30:55] <brion>	could be fun to start experimenting with :D
[03:31:13] <Simetrical>	brion, "start experimenting with" as in "go ahead and commit"?
[03:31:29] <Skizzerz>	omg two line patches
[03:31:37] *Skizzerz 	bets it's three
[03:31:44] <Simetrical>	Skizzerz, three if you count RELEASE-NOTES.
[03:31:50] <Skizzerz>	:D
[03:32:02] *Skizzerz 	counts it simply for the sake of being correct
[03:32:27] <Subfader_>	this linkKnown is really bad. after you moved a page $oldLink and $newLink appear in external link color
[03:32:41] <brion>	Simetrical: as long as it ain't messing with output by default
[03:33:33] <Simetrical>	brion, "messing with output" just means changing the doctype.  And removing one <meta> that nothing in the history of the universe has ever used or cared about (omg clients might thing style="" refers to XSL instead of CSS!!!!).
[03:33:41] <Simetrical>	There's nothing that could possibly break.
[03:33:56] <Simetrical>	Browsers ignore the doctype anyway, except to determine quirks mode.
[03:34:06] <Simetrical>	What criteria would be necessary for this to be on by default?
[03:34:11] <Simetrical>	And enabled on Wikipedia?
[03:34:37] <brion>	hm, a one-click thang to move my tbird-spammed messages to the imap bayes_spam folder for spamassassin training might be nice
[03:35:05] <brion>	Simetrical: would want to make sure it's not borking anything just for good measure :)
[03:35:06] <Simetrical>	Skizzerz, OutputPage.php:1564, OutputPage.php:1604
[03:35:23] <brion>	is the <br /> empty-tag form legal for html 5?
[03:35:25] <Simetrical>	brion, so how about we do that by enabling it on Wikipedia?  It's much less likely to break things than a lot of stuff we add.
[03:35:25] <Simetrical>	Yes.
[03:35:36] <brion>	(it's technically not legal in html 4 i think, but it doesnt break anything in practice)
[03:35:37] <Simetrical>	brion, if it breaks anything, it's two lines to revert, after all.
[03:35:37] <brion>	spiffy
[03:35:43] <Simetrical>	No danger.
[03:36:25] <Simetrical>	I can go ahead and kill those two lines right now, and put off further innovation until it goes live and everyone's worries are assuaged, if you prefer.
[03:36:36] <Simetrical>	Does that sound good?
[03:37:27] <Splarka>	could live-hack it on to test.wp for gits and shiggles
[03:37:39] <Splarka>	(like, right now)
[03:49:29] <Alphos>	HTML 4.0 is out since december 1997...
[03:49:42] <Alphos>	guys, i think i'm getting old all of a sudden >_>
[03:50:44] <Simetrical>	http://dpaste.com/65313/
[03:50:46] <Simetrical>	That's all.
[03:50:59] <Simetrical>	brion, can I commit this?  http://dpaste.com/65313/
[03:51:11] *brion 	looks
[03:51:36] <brion>	sorry im going over emails before bed :D ping me if you need my attn
[03:53:03] <brion>	Simetrical: for the moment can you make that switch on $wgDocType or something? it's easier to switch and experiment (and revert in live environment) if it doesn't require poking the code back and forth
[03:53:26] <brion>	if we're happy with it we'll dump the doctype/dtd vars at some point as obsolete
[03:53:43] <Simetrical>	brion, well, if we start actually using HTML 5 features, then the old doctypes will be invalid anyway.
[03:53:52] <brion>	wow here's a spam subject that isn't going to grab me
[03:54:01] <brion>	"Send e-mails directly to dentists!"
[03:54:10] <brion>	Simetrical: *nod* :)
[03:54:11] <Simetrical>	ts-admins gets a lot of dentist spam for some reason.
[03:54:16] <brion>	heh
[03:54:27] <gmaxwell>	Simetrical, omg too late!
[03:54:34] <Simetrical>	gmaxwell, ???!
[03:54:46] <gmaxwell>	Simetrical, We do use video. ;)
[03:54:52] <gmaxwell>	and <audio>
[03:55:01] <Simetrical>	<video> doesn't count if we don't output it in the HTML source.  Everyone knows that you don't have to follow standards if validators can't tell the difference.
[03:55:05] <Simetrical>	:P
[03:55:08] <gmaxwell>	hahah
[03:55:47] <Simetrical>	brion, okay, I'll commit it with a switch $wgHtml5, but the switch will be true by default.  If it goes wrong you can set it to false.  'Kay?
[03:56:14] <brion>	do $wgDocType and $wgDTD get used anywhere else?
[03:56:17] <gmaxwell>	I've been considering changing OggHandler to insert the tag directly, at least for the "file:" pages so that the client can pre-buffer. 
[03:56:39] <Simetrical>	brion, nope.
[03:56:44] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Notices on editing page (on enwiki) shown twice - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19628 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (tim636)
[03:56:58] <Simetrical>	I don't know what the point of them is supposed to be, really.
[03:57:05] <jdpond>	TimStarling: Putting final touches on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9887 by creating NSRepo.  Would have been able to do completely without patches, except, add hook to img_php and wfStripIllegalFilenameChars
[03:57:22] <Simetrical>	I mean, it's not like we'll magically start outputting HTML 4 or XHTML Strict if you change them.
[03:57:39] <brion>	*stab* thunderbird's "add contact" dialog doesnt fit on 600px high netbook screen. FAIL
[03:58:00] <brion>	gmaxwell: i think michael's got a variant that does that
[03:58:18] <brion>	we may not want to prebuffer on inline usage though, since n0ot everyones gonna click it
[03:58:29] <Simetrical>	That's why <video> has an autobuffer attribute.  :)
[03:58:30] <jdpond>	TimStarling: Was there a reason for not putting this function in the Repo classes instead of a global function (wfStripIllegalFilenameChars)? 
[03:58:52] <gmaxwell>	I think prebuffer is only reasonable on file pages.
[03:59:38] <gmaxwell>	(even if they aren't going to click it, prebuffering isn't to harmful there while it would be devastating on a gallery page)
[03:59:55] <brion>	istr someone saying the autobuffer param doesnt currently work :) havent checked though
[04:00:46] <jdpond>	TimStarling: See http://dpaste.org/v4Dp/ - could have gone in a repo->wfStripIllegalFilenameChars?
[04:01:20] <gmaxwell>	It does. They're probably doin-it-wrong. 
[04:01:50] <gmaxwell>	There are a lot of people doing crap like <video controls="no">  ... which isn't valid, and will actually get you controls on firefox. 
[04:02:37] <Alphos>	there will always be a lot of people doing crap :)
[04:02:46] <Alphos>	welcome aboard mankind :)
[04:03:04] <gmaxwell>	Well right, but we don't have to do crap. So the negative results of doing it shouldn't be relevant for our usage. :)
[04:03:54] <Simetrical>	Ooh, the validator is complaining: Required children missing from element dl.
[04:04:01] <Simetrical>	For all our cruddy "dd to indent" trash.
[04:04:21] <Simetrical>	Maybe we'll be prodded to improve our HTML, as well as our users.  :)
[04:04:46] *Simetrical 	realizes that could be misinterpreted as saying maybe we'll improve our users, but think that interpretation is entertaining enough to leave in the sentence
[04:06:15] <Simetrical>	Rats, I found a third line I need to change.  :P
[04:06:49] <TimStarling>	jdpond: only Image.php was refactored into into the filerepo hierarchy, not Special:Upload
[04:08:41] <brion>	yeah iirc that was originally done just in upload, so we had to break it out for validated image renames or sth
[04:09:32] <brion>	hehehe
[04:09:39] <jdpond>	TimStarling: Yeah, I see.  Hold on a sec and let me propose alternative.
[04:09:59] <brion>	Simetrical: yes, we should really output something other than <dl> when using : for indentation without a prior ;
[04:10:18] <Splarka>	oh, Tim, I hads a question about something.. but it is very vague and might annoy you (the vagueness)
[04:10:44] <TimStarling>	give it a go
[04:11:01] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar?uselang=en-gb
[04:11:39] <TimStarling>	that is indeed a vague question
[04:11:44] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Randompage/en-gb overrides http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Randompage but isn't defined to do that in http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn_gb.php?view=co&content-type=text%2Fplain
[04:12:16] <Splarka>	so the question is: are fallback variants populated by the message files before the on-wiki localisations?
[04:12:42] <Splarka>	so 'randompage' undefined in languages/messages/MessagesEn_gb.php gets grabbed from languages/messages/MessagesEn.php and ignores on-site MediaWiki:Randompage ?
[04:12:48] <Simetrical>	TimStarling, brion: could one of you change $wgCopyrightIcon to remove the border="0"?  We already have img { border: none; } in main.css, and every other skin's stylesheet.
[04:12:51] <Splarka>	or is something else happening there
[04:13:28] <brion>	if it's in all the styles by now we're prolly good yes
[04:13:29] <TimStarling>	the mediawiki namespace always overrides the localisation files
[04:13:39] <TimStarling>	sometimes that's desired, sometimes not
[04:13:48] <TimStarling>	when it's not, people get really angry, when it is, they don't notice
[04:14:02] <Splarka>	ahh, well, the queston then is, where is this coming from: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Randompage/en-gb&action=edit
[04:14:36] <Splarka>	^question, even
[04:15:09] <TimStarling>	it just calls wfMsg()
[04:15:53] <Splarka>	but it seems to see 'randompage' in /messages before it sees the mediawiki namespace, there
[04:16:00] <Splarka>	unless it is cached from the last rebuild or something
[04:16:04] <TimStarling>				if( $this->mTitle->getNamespace() == NS_MEDIAWIKI ) {
[04:16:04] <TimStarling>					# If this is a system message, get the default text.
[04:16:04] <TimStarling>					list( $message, $lang ) = $wgMessageCache->figureMessage( $wgContLang->lcfirst( $this->mTitle->getText() ) );
[04:16:20] <TimStarling>					$text = wfMsgGetKey( $message, false, $lang, false );
[04:16:50] <flyingparchment>	en_GB language is a retarded idea
[04:17:02] <TimStarling>	that function name is not quite english, but what do you expect in i18n code?
[04:17:09] <Splarka>	heh
[04:18:06] <Splarka>	well, still am confused, why wouldn't MediaWiki:Randompage define MediaWiki:Randompage/en-gb if the latter is undefined anywhere (on-wiki or in /messages)?
[04:19:02] <jdpond>	TimStarling: How about http://dpaste.org/CTWX/
[04:19:47] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53033 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (MonoBook.php Vector.php): Remove stray name="" from anchors (cf. r52963)
[04:20:06] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53034 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (DefaultSettings.php OutputPage.php): (log message trimmed)
[04:20:06] <CIA-58>	Experimentally enable HTML 5 doctype
[04:20:06] <CIA-58>	Per wikitech-l discussion. This also removes a <meta> tag that was
[04:20:06] <CIA-58>	completely pointless, but theoretically required by XHTML 1, yet causes
[04:20:07] <CIA-58>	the HTML 5 validator to complain.
[04:20:09] <CIA-58>	Together with a few other recent commits, this should cause at least
[04:20:11] <CIA-58>	Special:BlankPage to validate as HTML 5. Real pages may still have some
[04:21:01] *Splarka 	notices en_gb doesn't even have $fallback.. now is really confused
[04:21:27] <picillo>	Hello all. 
[04:21:38] <TimStarling>	Splarka: the second parameter in that wfMsgGetKey() call that I pasted is the $useDB parameter
[04:21:42] <jdpond>	TimStarling: That way, the repo decides what the valid file naming is - and allows me to use the [[File:ns:filename.txt]] to allow namespace protection to the file.
[04:21:55] <picillo>	Is there a way to make mediawiki private to a single user?
[04:21:55] <TimStarling>	that's false, so it doesn't try the english fallback in the namespace
[04:22:25] <gmaxwell>	picillo, htaccess. :)
[04:22:41] <picillo>	oh yeah
[04:22:49] <picillo>	hehe, I completely forgot.
[04:22:56] <picillo>	ty
[04:24:21] <Alphos>	local installation works too
[04:24:42] <picillo>	Alphos: What do you mean? 
[04:24:44] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53035 10/trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES: RELEASE-NOTES for r53034
[04:24:56] <chuck>	picillo: if you still want an opinion on which wiki engine we use from #wiki, I would recommend Confluence if you can afford it
[04:24:57] <Alphos>	install MW on your computer with a WAMPP :)
[04:24:59] <picillo>	Just an install on local machine.
[04:25:30] <picillo>	chuck: Thank you, I'll look into it.
[04:26:10] <jdpond>	picillo: You could also use [[extension:lockdown]] 
[04:26:26] <picillo>	Alphos: Oh okay.. Yeah, I wanted to access the wiki from any computer, but you suggestion is as private as it gets. 
[04:26:37] <Alphos>	pretty much, yeah ^^
[04:26:54] <Alphos>	well, as private as your computer is, anyway
[04:27:07] <picillo>	jdpond: how do I access that extension. 
[04:27:25] <picillo>	totally new to MW, but want to lock it down as much as possible.
[04:27:42] <jdpond>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown
[04:27:49] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53036 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: Fix up r53025: use <a id="foo"> instead of <a name="foo">. Similar changes have been made to core recently.
[04:28:17] <jdpond>	Set yourself up as the only approved user.
[04:29:40] <jdpond>	picillo: then you could add (or remove) as many users from the "approved" group as desired.
[04:30:20] <jdpond>	picillo: Problem is restricting files, but I'm in the final stages of releasing a new extension (NSRepo) that takes care of that too.
[04:30:31] <picillo>	jdpond: That is so what I was looking for. Thank you.
[04:30:40] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53037 10/trunk/tools/bookmarklets/ (bookmarklets.html secure-switch.js): add usability wiki to specials.
[04:31:37] <jdpond>	picillo: thank http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Duesentrieb  glad to be of help.
[04:32:36] <Splarka>	okay Tim, I can't fathom it, /is/ it expected behavior then that en-gb uses MediaWiki:xxx/en-gb and then MessagesEn_gb.php and then MessagesEn.php and never seems to check MediaWiki:xxx ? (or whatever it is doing)
[04:32:40] <picillo>	jdpond: What version should I be getting of LockDown?
[04:32:51] <picillo>	I take dev is not the best way to go.
[04:33:02] <TimStarling>	it's an unexpected consequence of a special-case hack
[04:33:30] <Splarka>	k
[04:33:34] *Emufarmers 	stares at brion :O
[04:33:55] <jdpond>	picillo: what version of MW ru using?
[04:34:39] *brion 	hides from Emufarmers
[04:34:56] <picillo>	I forgot for a sec. I had to check the tar that I DL. It's 1.15, so that answered my question. 
[04:35:05] <picillo>	jdpond: thanks for the direction.
[04:35:17] <jdpond>	I loaded up from http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/Lockdown/ with MW 1.15 and it works great.
[04:35:56] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53038 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: OptIn: Fix up r52987: use wrapWikiMsg() per Nikerabbit's suggestion
[04:36:13] <Simetrical>	brion, are there any plans for when the next scap will be?
[04:36:31] <brion>	full scap? dunno :D hopefully within next week or two
[04:36:39] <Simetrical>	Okay, good.
[04:36:44] <Emufarmers>	You'd better hide!
[04:36:50] *Emufarmers 	makes brion clones with the lock of hair he stole
[04:36:57] <brion>	TimStarling: if we havent already, you wanna take a quick look and syncing up the latest fixes to vector skin / edit toolbar ext?
[04:37:07] <Simetrical>	Because I'm pretty sure Wikipedia switching to HTML 5 is going to make the front page of Slashdot, at the very least, and I want to have a nice blog post written up.
[04:37:09] <brion>	http://dpaste.org/MiIe/ <- alleged list of bits that need their updates merged
[04:37:23] <Simetrical>	Who do I talk to about being able to post on the tech blog?
[04:37:25] <brion>	naoko kept trying to get me to do it while i was on the plane to boston today ;)
[04:37:40] <brion>	Emufarmers: aha! my clone army will come in handy
[04:38:54] <brion>	Simetrical: i can prolly set you up. you already created an account?
[04:39:49] <Simetrical>	No, let me see.
[04:41:03] <Simetrical>	brion, created account Aryeh Gregor.
[04:42:42] <Simetrical>	"WordPress 2.8.1 is available! Please notify the site administrator."  Haha, way to get uptake of new versions.
[04:42:45] <Splarka>	scap? scap? *perks*
[04:43:41] <Subfader_>	is there a way to disable the default redirect usage in the new search? cos on my wiki it stell searches with redirs=1 and it's auto-ticked in "Advanced". on mediawiki.org it's not listed under "Advanced"
[04:44:08] <Splarka>	scrap nap, lap scap map, zap scap trap, slap scap chap yap
[04:44:56] <brion>	Simetrical: ok you're now an "author", should be able to post
[04:45:05] <Simetrical>	brion, kthx
[04:50:22] <Emufarmers>	What was the resolution to that 100-post list discussion about a new programming/template language?
[04:53:55] <jdpond>	Would anyone object if I proposed (and executed) localization of img_auth.php?  Would submit bug and suggested patch(s).
[04:54:37] <jdpond>	Right now it's en only.
[04:55:36] <brion>	localization of... what?
[04:55:39] <brion>	the error messages?
[04:55:45] <brion>	i guess that's feasible :)
[04:56:01] <brion>	Emufarmers: i don't believe weve resolved it yet :D
[04:57:09] <brion>	catch you all laters
[04:57:15] <brion>	nice meetin ya Emufarmers :D
[04:57:39] <Emufarmers>	:3
[05:00:30] <jdpond>	localization of message in img_auth.php see: http://dpaste.org/Qsfc/  Would also probably reduce number of wfDebugLog's - quite noisy now.
[05:01:35] <jdpond>	I'll submit bug tomorrow with patches.  If not desired, can kill.  Just wanted to make sure not a waste of time.
[05:11:02] <chuck>	Emufarmers: where is that discussion?
[05:11:17] <Emufarmers>	wikitech-l
[05:11:51] <Emufarmers>	the main thread died a week ago, but a couple others are still active
[05:13:00] <p858snake>	Emufarmers: like that post on the other list saying that MW is getting one, not that it's just being discussed
[05:13:01] <chuck>	ah, i see
[05:13:22] <Emufarmers>	p858snake: huh?
[05:13:25] <chuck>	I wonder what time it is in australia right now
[05:13:42] <p858snake>	3:13 PM (in QLD)
[05:14:05] <chuck>	crap, i hope my confluence support request gets taken care of, or else i have to wait until monday .-.
[05:14:43] <Emufarmers>	Where did you get money for Confluence? o,o
[05:14:49] <p858snake>	Emufarmers: in Wikien theres a thread about "MW getting a new language" while everwhere else people are just discussing pros/cons
[05:15:49] <chuck>	Emufarmers: I snagged a license during their three day "starter license" promotion
[05:16:06] <chuck>	$5 for a license that's good for five users, which is great since we only have four people working on this project
[05:17:26] <chuck>	and, it only costs $5 to renew the support for a year forever
[05:18:08] <Emufarmers>	p858snake: I'm not subscribed to wikien, but I imagine a third of it is people complaining that the developers didn't consult the community enough, a third saying that they should use xyz language, and the rest complaining that Jimmy is evil? :)
[05:19:49] <p858snake>	no idea, i didn't read it at first then there was too many for me to consider reading it
[05:21:25] <OverlordQ>	they should just enable it, let the site run like crap for a bit and say "Told ya so" :P
[05:44:37] <Jinx>	when blocking users by username, is there a way to increase the duration of "recent ip" bans? is it safe to edit the database directly and change it to "infinity" ?
[05:45:31] <Emufarmers>	Jinx: not on a case-by-case basis, but there's $wgAutoblockExpiry
[05:45:36] <Jinx>	also, is it possible to block (disable account creation even) a wildcard/regex of usernames? all of my spammers are of the form "348_buy_x"
[05:45:44] <Jinx>	or "NNN_buy_x"
[05:46:18] <TimStarling>	you shouldn't block IP addresses forever
[05:46:18] <Jinx>	$wgAutoblockExpiry is probably just what i'm looking for :)
[05:46:32] <TimStarling>	a year is probably reasonable though
[05:46:39] <Jinx>	does it only handle autoblocks as a result of username use?
[05:46:47] <Jinx>	or other types of autoblocks as well?
[05:46:58] <Jinx>	(i'm not aware of any spefically which is why i ask)
[05:47:01] <Jinx>	timpuri: agreed
[05:47:06] <Jinx>	TimStarling: agreed
[05:47:28] <Emufarmers>	Extension:Title Blacklist will let you prevent accounts with those names from being created, though it won't do anything about existing users
[05:48:04] <Jinx>	alright, i'll add that to the list of extensions i need to install :)
[05:49:04] <Jinx>	Check User, ConfirmEdit, Title Blacklist
[05:49:25] <Emufarmers>	Oh, Try Extension:RegexBlock
[05:49:32] <Jinx>	i also need to fix my RSS extension eventually... i'm not so hot in php though :)
[05:49:33] <Jinx>	lol
[05:49:36] <Jinx>	fine, that one too then
[05:49:47] <Jinx>	Check User, ConfirmEdit, Title Blacklist, RegexBlock
[05:49:52] <Jinx>	thank you for the suggestions :)
[05:50:28] <Jinx>	is it safe to edit the database directly for existing IP-bans ?
[05:51:26] <Jinx>	at this point i'd just be happy if they stayed long enough that i could see if all of our issues are coming from the same range or not
[05:51:32] <Jinx>	heh
[05:51:43] <Jinx>	i know i make this more work than it needs to be
[05:52:39] <Emufarmers>	Range- and title-based blocking is a fairly fruitless endeavor as far as spam goes: hurry up with ConfirmEdit
[05:54:21] <Jinx>	yeah, you're right... i just don't have the energy to install the extensions tonight as i'd hoped
[05:54:31] <Jinx>	was hoping there was a quick/easy "block regex" built in
[05:54:40] <Jinx>	just to stem the flow for now
[05:55:13] <Jinx>	stem? ... is that right there? 
[05:55:16] <Jinx>	ack i'm tired :)
[05:55:18] <Emufarmers>	Well, don't strain yourself; adding those lines to a configuration file is such hard work :)
[05:55:42] <MrZ-man>	if you really want to annoy the spammers - http://i40.tinypic.com/30iaxc3.jpg
[05:56:38] <gmaxwell>	MrZ-man, I'm becoming worried that I've lost my humanity
[05:56:50] <gmaxwell>	increasingly I'm unable to solve captchas given to me.
[05:57:35] <MrZ-man>	why use normal word lists when you can use lists of medical adverbs
[05:57:36] <TimStarling>	you should try the one on bugs.php.net
[05:57:49] <TimStarling>	if you take more than 5 minutes to fill in your bug report, it claims you got the captcha wrong
[05:57:53] <Emufarmers>	http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/search.php has some nice unreadable ones
[05:58:18] <Jinx>	Emufarmers: there's usually more than just adding a few lines, no? at least in my experience
[05:58:21] <TimStarling>	it seems to be designed to mess with people
[05:58:51] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, a lot of sites now seem to time out on you if you take the time to read the legal terms. I had a hard time signing up for internet at this location…
[05:59:22] <Jinx>	yeah they need to separate the CAPTCHA from teh form itself then
[05:59:26] <Jinx>	so the timeouts are independent
[05:59:41] <TimStarling>	I wonder if there's a browser plugin you can get which will solve captchas for you
[05:59:55] <TimStarling>	I'm told automated captcha solvers are pretty advanced these days
[06:00:17] <Jinx>	particularly when slaving out to human farms
[06:00:21] <Emufarmers>	TimStarling: maybe it will even pay Malaysian workers $.05/hour to do it for you?
[06:00:50] <Splarka>	"Type in these 6 letters that look amazingly similar to the captcha employed by several major domain registrars, to access our adult area"
[06:01:20] <TimStarling>	I don't think that's the way to go
[06:01:26] <TimStarling>	that would be no more accurate than doing it yourself
[06:01:44] <TimStarling>	with a bit of development, computers should be able to solve captchas much more accurately than humans
[06:01:59] <Jinx>	Emufarmers: do you run the imagezoom extension on firefox? using that, i can solve the captchas at steampowered pretty easily
[06:02:06] <Emufarmers>	Jinx: well, you have to download the extension too, obviously.  "svn co http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ConfirmEdit/"   ConfirmAccount is probably at the high end as far as configuration difficulty goes, especially if you want FancyCaptcha.  The average extension requires little or no configuration.
[06:02:44] <Jinx>	ConfirmAccount is required for ConfirmEdit?
[06:02:54] <Emufarmers>	Er, sorry
[06:02:56] <Emufarmers>	ConfirmEdit
[06:03:03] <Emufarmers>	Freudian slip
[06:03:10] <Emufarmers>	(and poor naming decisions :))
[06:03:11] <Jinx>	ah, yeah, i'll probably want FancyCaptcha... so it'll probably be at teh high end 
[06:03:19] <Jinx>	indeed
[06:03:25] *Splarka 	looks for the news story
[06:03:39] <Splarka>	http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2006/11/hijacking_intelligen.html
[06:03:47] <Jinx>	do try that firefox extension if you have a chance... zooming makes those images a ton easier to read
[06:03:48] <Emufarmers>	Jinx: I had to stop using Firefox.  Once you have ~200-400 instances open, it starts crashing constantly. :(
[06:04:03] <Jinx>	ha
[06:04:17] <Jinx>	that'll do it i guess...
[06:04:27] <Jinx>	do you have a browser that handles 200-400 instances?
[06:04:33] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, yes, ironically, captcha is a problem that computers should be far better than humans at. 
[06:04:35] <Emufarmers>	I was using Chrome for a while, but eventually it wouldn't start up properly
[06:04:35] <Jinx>	or do you just switch to one that only allows 1
[06:05:02] <Nikerabbit>	instances of what? :o
[06:05:08] <Jinx>	i think it's sad that captchas are losing ground
[06:05:17] <Emufarmers>	Now I'm on Opera, but it's apparently made for sissies, because it's crashing with just 5 windows' worth of tabs (probably 100 instances)!
[06:05:21] <Splarka>	TimStarling: do you think something providing free open-source (ideally for more than just mediawiki) audio captchas would be a possible part of the Usability project?
[06:05:31] <gmaxwell>	an subproblem of the captcha problem where you have to correct a misspelled piece of text computers already would whoop people rather thoroughly. 
[06:05:44] <Jinx>	not that there ever was, but it puts the idea of a silver bullet even further away... and relegates us more to everyone requiring a unique ID... which is pretty scary
[06:05:47] <Splarka>	or is it beyond the scope of mere mortals to make an audio captcha that is both open source and not easy to defeat?
[06:06:11] <gmaxwell>	I've never heard an audio captcha can someone point me to a .wav of one?
[06:06:18] <Jinx>	Emufarmers: have you considered changing your browsing habits? even i manage to usually keep less than 20 tabs open :)
[06:07:19] <Jinx>	yeah i hear voice recognition is still lagging behind... so maybe that'll be a bit better in the captcha dept.
[06:07:33] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, we should just give users a feed of edits to the project in question and have them identify the vandalism.
[06:07:53] <Splarka>	heh
[06:08:00] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, even if the spammers crack the captcha we still win.
[06:08:00] <Emufarmers>	Is reCaptcha open-source?
[06:08:18] <gmaxwell>	Emufarmers, it's a hosted service effectively. 
[06:08:35] <TimStarling>	I don't think an audio captcha is possible
[06:08:53] <Emufarmers>	Jinx: you mean implement a close-as-you-go policy for myself?  Maybe I should, but I'm probably not going to. :)
[06:08:54] <TimStarling>	ok, that's not quite true
[06:09:08] <TimStarling>	it's possible if you have a huge private dictionary of sounds
[06:09:12] <TimStarling>	but that's not really FOSS
[06:09:21] <gmaxwell>	Well— a crap one is possible. Just use festival to say some random string. ... of course it will be instantly cracked.
[06:09:43] <TimStarling>	I did some basic tests in scilab
[06:09:46] <Splarka>	http://toolserver.org/~amidaniel/chanlogs/%23mediawiki/20080303.txt   <TimStarling> so you dial this number on your mobile, let the computer listen to it for 15 seconds <TimStarling> and then it searches a database of like a million songs for a correlation <TimStarling> it's very clever, but scary for a captcha designer because it shows you how easily known recordings can be detected even in high noise or distortion
[06:10:02] *Splarka 	asks you every few months, apparently
[06:10:19] <TimStarling>	if the attacker has the input sound, autocorrelation picks it out really clearly, even if you mix a lot of noise in
[06:10:49] <Emufarmers>	I don't think our captchas are open-source as it is?
[06:10:50] <TimStarling>	and if the input sound is festival then it's pretty easy for an attacker to get, obviously
[06:10:52] <gmaxwell>	Audio fingerprinting is reasonably well studied area and is a lot easier than generalized speech rec.
[06:11:05] <gmaxwell>	Emufarmers, the fancy captcha is, sure.
[06:11:17] <Jinx>	Emufarmers: heh... never heard it referred to as "close as you go"... but yes, i suppose that would be a good idea :) good luck with your addiction
[06:11:17] <Splarka>	so alternately, Wikimedia could provide an audio captcha service, using its potential millions of audio files already correlated to words, on the Wiktionaries (as pronunciation examples)
[06:11:20] <Emufarmers>	gmaxwell: the software for it is, but the fonts and dictionaries used aren't necessarily
[06:11:26] <TimStarling>	honestly, from my tests, you don't need anything clever
[06:11:44] <TimStarling>	just run an autocorrelation against your dictionary and pick the one with the highest peak
[06:12:09] <TimStarling>	you know what autocorrelation is, right?
[06:12:12] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, you can foil the simple cross-correlation by making non-linear changes to sound... but thats still easily broken.
[06:12:28] <TimStarling>	sorry I mean cross-correlation
[06:12:37] <gmaxwell>	I know you did. :)
[06:13:22] <TimStarling>	I tried modulating, it still picked it out plain as day
[06:15:05] <gmaxwell>	I can't come up with anything that I feel confident would be strong against someone who figured out the technique, or which didn't have a large private database.
[06:15:53] <gmaxwell>	Does anyone do SMS captchas?
[06:16:03] <gmaxwell>	Or phone call captchas? 
[06:16:20] <gmaxwell>	i.e. an audio captcha where you provide a phone number and it calls you?
[06:16:22] <Splarka>	how long until captchas have to rely humans being worse at solving problems, insead of better?
[06:16:27] <TimStarling>	it sounds like it would be as strong as email confirmation
[06:16:43] <gmaxwell>	Even if the audio captcha is laughably weak, the new phone numbers are somewhat harder to mint than email addresses.
[06:17:01] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, stupidity is too easily simulated.
[06:17:41] <gmaxwell>	"John— I told you I need those quotes! why are you playing quake?!" "Sorry boss, I have to frag three baddies before I can submit the request. Damn captchas"
[06:17:44] <TimStarling>	if it was SMS, then it would move the battleground to the SMS gateways
[06:17:49] <Splarka>	well, not stupidity per se, but say, time based input gap distribution
[06:18:04] <Splarka>	with peak corrections for lefties and dvorak typers, etc
[06:18:11] <TimStarling>	they charge money, but I don't think they charge enough money to deter spammers
[06:18:25] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, that would be so easily cracked … 
[06:18:48] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, if the computer could tell if a timing was a human then a computer could generate that timing.
[06:19:35] <TimStarling>	I guess you could build a database of the phone number ranges used by the vulnerable gateways
[06:19:40] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, ultimately it's a cost exercise in any case. I can pay people in Indonesia pennies per dozens of normal captchas cracked, no doubt.
[06:20:21] <gmaxwell>	Right. Though number portability might screw with the database building, but porting numbers also costs money.
[06:26:24] <TimStarling>	I wish governments would take a more active role in preventing and shutting down botnets
[06:29:14] <TimStarling>	at the moment, so much is still left to vigilantes, who constantly risk getting arrested themselves
[06:30:38] <gmaxwell>	You should have seen Paul Vixies rambling presentation at nanog 46 on this
[06:31:00] <gmaxwell>	ah,  http://nanog.org/meetings/nanog46/presentations/Monday_Video/internet_superbugs.wmv  http://nanog.org/meetings/nanog46/presentations/Monday/Vixie_artwar_N46.pdf
[06:31:32] <gmaxwell>	(the slides are mostly worthless; sadly)
[06:32:04] <gmaxwell>	the presentation is fun and defeatist. 
[06:34:44] <TimStarling>	there's lots of points in the process where governments could take a role
[06:35:09] <Splarka>	you want the Aus government to filter /more/?
[06:35:14] <TimStarling>	infiltrating social groups, tracking down herders and arresting people, that's the most obvious one and the thing that they're good at already
[06:35:26] <TimStarling>	that could be expanded
[06:36:03] <TimStarling>	like the way the US government dealt with the mafia
[06:36:07] <gmaxwell>	There is a little too much believe by folks in power that it's all just a silly video game of no consequence. 
[06:36:18] <gmaxwell>	s/believe/belief/
[06:36:27] <Splarka>	except for the porn, that of course is Serious Business
[06:37:04] <TimStarling>	they could encourage secure software practices, with a combination of carrot and stick
[06:37:11] <gmaxwell>	But it's all just about cultural relativity. ... Porn... Dope smoking. Serious business.   DOS attacks? Thats a move in a submarine game, right?
[06:37:29] <TimStarling>	offerring grants for security reviews, and fines for security vulnerabilities leading to large-scale compromise
[06:37:32] <Splarka>	gmaxwell: until they figure out that can make money off it
[06:37:37] <Splarka>	taxable WoW gold, woot
[06:37:56] <Emufarmers>	TimStarling: what is a "herder"?
[06:37:59] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, there is some of that… I.e. DoD sponsored coverity scanning a bunch of free software.
[06:38:14] <gmaxwell>	Emufarmers, someone who manages a botnet, basically. 
[06:38:20] <Emufarmers>	Oh
[06:39:08] <Emufarmers>	Well, the DoD still needs to secure its own networks, from what I've heard. :)
[06:39:35] <TimStarling>	well, these little news stories like the one we had over the last couple of days are useful for raising awareness in political circles
[06:40:22] <TimStarling>	commercial websites get attacked all the time on this scale, but when it's two governments, US and South Korea, it gets attention
[06:40:36] <gmaxwell>	What a surprise… Commercial software vendors are not too interested in the government's "help" at software development; the stuff that gladly accepts the help isn't the most popular stuff that needs the most security improvements.
[06:41:19] <Splarka>	someone just needs to put a Trident on a partially secure network with a hardcoded target in the nevada desert and a very low yield sub-critical nuclear device, and "let" some hackers launch it, that'll raise awareness
[06:41:36] *JSharp 	looks at Splarka
[06:41:56] <gmaxwell>	Splarka, then we get to invade Moldova for a few years?
[06:42:05] <Splarka>	bonus
[06:42:07] <chuck>	TimStarling: and don't forget the fact that the attacks seemed to have originated from a country that's being increasing more and more hostile towards S Korea and the US ;-)
[06:43:31] <OverlordQ>	Did somebody mention the attempted DoS attacks?
[06:43:52] <TimStarling>	chuck: oh, nonsense
[06:44:17] <TimStarling>	it could have been some kid in a house in ukraine
[06:44:27] <gmaxwell>	For the most part computer networks are not regarded as critical infrastructure by regulators. Well' they'll enumerate them in their lists, but they don't actually treat them as important. 
[06:44:33] <chuck>	TimStarling: of course
[06:44:43] <OverlordQ>	If the number truly was 23 Mbit/s, that's a pitiful number
[06:44:51] <chuck>	hence the "seemed to have originated from" rather than "the attacks that the North Korean government ordered!"
[06:44:54] <chuck>	;-)
[06:45:09] <TimStarling>	chuck: it's just speculation based on the targets
[06:46:00] <TimStarling>	if I hired a botnet and attacked russia, people would say the attacks came from chechnya
[06:46:05] <gmaxwell>	If you were iran and wanted to attack the US, surely you'd also attack s. korea to make it look like n. korea was at fault. ;) 
[06:47:01] <gmaxwell>	And if you were 16 in the Ukraine and wanted lulz you'd tell your buddies "bet I can start an atomic war" and you'd fake an attack from n. korea. :)
[06:47:21] <gmaxwell>	So you really can't tell, all those theories fit equally well.
[06:48:05] <gmaxwell>	Moreover, 16 year olds from the Ukraine are only slightly less capable at launching this attack than either iran or north korea, and there are lots more of them. :)
[06:48:18] <OverlordQ>	yea but the size of it really counts out anybody serious and/or smart :)
[06:48:22] <gmaxwell>	So it's the most likely explanation.  Q.E.D.
[06:48:49] <TimStarling>	according to wikipedia the attack against the south korean government sites involved 86 IP addresses
[06:48:52] <chuck>	OR! the north korean government really did sanction these attacks and is enjoying the cover of speculation that it's from a kid in ukraine
[06:48:54] <TimStarling>	I laughed when I saw that
[06:49:05] <OverlordQ>	86 IP's and a whopping 23 Mbit
[06:49:44] <TimStarling>	whereas the bulk of the attack is said to be a proper botnet, with ~50k clients
[06:49:48] <gmaxwell>	I've been hit with DOS attacks over 20x that large just from insulting someone on IRC.
[06:50:11] <TimStarling>	:)
[06:50:12] <chuck>	gmaxwell: hehe
[06:50:27] <chuck>	IRC just wouldn't be IRC if it didn't have people that do stuff like that on it
[06:50:34] <TimStarling>	so it may be that the US attacks were unrelated to the South Korea attacks, except in timing
[06:51:13] <Emufarmers>	Did the attacks on South Korea actually manage to take anything down?
[06:51:55] <chuck>	yeah, some sites were still down in the beginning of this week
[06:55:22] <OverlordQ>	still nothing compared to Estonia getting DoS'd off the net
[06:55:43] <p858snake>	hmm according to slashdot, those ddos machines are designed to overwrite and criple themselves
[06:55:47] <p858snake>	http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/07/10/0452256/Korean-DDoS-Bots-To-Self-Destruct?from=rss
[06:56:52] <OverlordQ>	is that a bad thing?
[06:57:17] <TimStarling>	<gmaxwell> What a surprise… Commercial software vendors are not too interested in the government's "help" at software development; the stuff that gladly accepts the help isn't the most popular stuff that needs the most security improvements.
[06:57:26] <TimStarling>	that's why fines are needed too
[07:00:31] <gmaxwell>	Security vulnerabilities seem to be viewed as 'acts of god'.
[07:01:12] <TimStarling>	even if the fines were small, they would establish a sense that the software manufacturer is doing something wrong by not being secure
[07:01:13] <Emufarmers>	How could it be otherwise when computers are viewed as magic?
[07:06:22] <gmaxwell>	TimStarling, Who do you fine for a stack vulnerability in a piece of software never intended to be placed some someplace security relevant, but was,  which could have been prevented with stack canary compilation, but wasn't, and which would have been prevented by OS NX stack/map randomization?   .. the author of the buggy code, the people who failed to turn on security measures in the compiler, the people who failed to put defensive meas
[07:06:22] <gmaxwell>	ures in the OS, or the person who decided to put that software someplace where its security mattered?
[07:08:04] <gmaxwell>	(sure, the bug was ultimately in the program, but if you believe that the only solution to security problems is to prevent all bugs you've already lost. Defense in depth shouldn't be optional.)
[07:09:44] <TimStarling>	obviously the law and its enforcement would have to be somewhat nuanced
[07:09:50] <TimStarling>	I don't think it's impossible though
[07:11:47] <gmaxwell>	No— clearly. If we can handle laws for medical malpractice and taxes .... but complicated systems of laws take time to evolve. 
[07:11:52] <TimStarling>	not to imply this is the answer, but we already have a system for tracking liability through a chain of supply, in the form of ISO 9001
[07:14:13] <gmaxwell>	*cough*
[07:15:46] <gmaxwell>	And on that note I'll go to bed and hopefully not have nightmares about record control procedures.
[07:17:38] <TimStarling>	night
[07:17:59] <gmaxwell>	(but if I do have any nonconforming experiences, I'm sure they'll be traceable and fulfill all documented requirements)
[07:32:05] <PiRK>	hi
[07:32:47] <PiRK>	I have a problem on my wiki : http://www.wiki-parapente.fr/wiki/Accueil
[07:32:47] <PiRK>	Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /homez.37/cyberail/wiki_lcdv/w/LocalSettings.php:1) in /homez.37/cyberail/wiki_lcdv/w/includes/WebResponse.php on line 16
[07:33:33] <PiRK>	It started right after i made a minor change both in LocalSettings.php and main.css
[07:34:57] <PiRK>	Do you know if editing one of these files with the windows notepad can cause this kind of trouble ? (because of the microsoft-like newlines maybe ?)
[07:41:31] <PiRK>	I fixed my problem by restoring a backuped version of LocalSettings.php, so nevermind
[07:42:33] <Splarka>	!> | PiRK
[07:42:33] --mwbot--	PiRK: I don't know anything about ">". You might try: !adminsettings !bizzwiki !blocking !centralauth !cms !csshideheader !displaytitle !dpl !dumphtml !feeds !hosting !imagemagic !interwiki !multiplewiki !passthru !renameuser !rewriteproblems !smtp !sourceforge !webrequest 
[07:42:41] <Splarka>	ack
[07:42:50] <Splarka>	!?> | PiRK
[07:42:50] --mwbot--	PiRK: The PHP closing tag "?>" is never required at the end of a pure-code php file, and mediawiki developers actively remove it, as it often causes problems related to trailing whitespace, and "headers already sent" errors. See also http://news.php.net/php.general/280796 and !bom as well as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17642
[07:43:04] <Splarka>	so probably something at the end of the file
[07:43:13] <Splarka>	(as you guessed)
[07:43:57] <PiRK>	Thanks, but I didn't touch the end of the file. I really think my modification couldn't have caused that problem
[07:44:41] <PiRK>	Notepad must be corrupting my file in some way
[07:46:41] <PiRK>	what text editor do you guys use on windows systems to edit unix text files ?
[07:46:47] <MrZ-man>	!bom | PiRK
[07:46:47] --mwbot--	PiRK: The byte-order mark (BOM) is a special character added to files by some text editors, most notably, by Notepad. It is unnecessary and breaks PHP code. You should not use Notepad to edit PHP files. Alternatives for Windows include Notepad++, SciTE, EditPlus, and UltraEdit. See also !?>
[07:47:12] <PiRK>	thank you :)
[07:47:26] <Splarka>	oh, BOM, dur
[07:47:55] <Splarka>	Bom is Windows' way of saying "I love you"..... "I  you"
[07:53:21] <rook2pawn>	i edited my santize.php so i could get object and param as whitelisted, and upon editing preview, it works, but when i save it, it doesnt..
[07:53:42] <rook2pawn>	is there another script that does something on save vs preview? because i am getting different results
[07:58:21] *Splarka 	thinks a tag extension might work better, could even use the same name, eg <object> could be a tag extension that emits an <object> html element, with any sanitizing you wish
[08:01:11] <rook2pawn>	i dont know how to write extensions but i am not satisfied with the current extensions for embedding flash
[08:08:11] <TimStarling>	Splarka: you like CSS don't you?
[08:09:08] <Splarka>	well, lets just say I like it in the way all MediaWiki devs like PHP: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Splarka/PHP
[08:09:43] <TimStarling>	what do you think of people using !important in core CSS files?
[08:10:04] <Splarka>	that almost always can be done in a better way
[08:10:05] <TimStarling>	it seems like a bad idea to me, because it's hard to override
[08:10:08] <Splarka>	but sometimes it is necessary
[08:10:45] <Splarka>	<span class="foo" style="display:none;">Hidden text here</span>
[08:11:09] <Splarka>	I think there are a few bits in monobook that still need it to override inline style? maybe not though
[08:11:39] <TimStarling>	vector has a lot of !important, I'm trying to work out if there's any good reason for it
[08:11:59] <Splarka>	ahh, hmm
[08:12:11] <TimStarling>	I think they're just using it as a generic override method
[08:12:30] <TimStarling>	maybe the stylesheets are loaded in the wrong order or something
[08:12:37] <MrZ-man>	just remove them and see how badly it breaks?
[08:12:41] <Splarka>	#preftoc { ...... margin: 0 !important;
[08:12:45] <Splarka>	well
[08:12:52] <Splarka>	okay, looking at the first example, for example
[08:13:11] <TimStarling>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52129
[08:13:12] <Splarka>	#prefoc has 8 attributes and values, two of which are !important
[08:13:49] *Splarka 	looks at prefs html
[08:14:23] <Splarka>	ehm, I don't even see id="preftoc"
[08:14:45] <Splarka>	nor in an article...
[08:15:04] <Splarka>	oh, prefs.js
[08:15:40] <Splarka>	right, so it probably overrides previously defined styles
[08:16:34] <Splarka>	geez, wtf is they doin ...
[08:17:49] <Splarka>	okay, yah, they just need higher specificity
[08:18:03] <Splarka>	but this itself can be a bit annoying
[08:18:48] <TimStarling>	specificity is a nasty CSS quirk, but you can't really get far without it IMHO
[08:19:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Tablecreation fails due to lengthlimit on includesection containing diacritical Characters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19629 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: DynamicPageList; (k.friedeheim)
[08:19:56] <Splarka>	what usually happens, to me anyway, is I'll be adding styles and crap, and notice they don't work on the first try, so then I'll add !important just to make sure I'm in the ballpark and not making a typo 
[08:20:11] <Splarka>	and then later go back and experiment with the minimum specificity needed to actually apply what I want
[08:20:24] <Splarka>	I think they skipped that last step
[08:20:43] <Splarka>	the 'cascading' part is insanely frustrating ^_^
[08:21:34] <Splarka>	so
[08:22:04] <Splarka>	eh... why do they even need some of these
[08:22:15] <Splarka>	I don't see what they need to override other than stuff they've defined themselves
[08:23:19] <TimStarling>	I'm looking at it in firebug... I only see a ul selector and a #preftoc selector
[08:23:54] <TimStarling>	surely #preftoc would override ul just by specificity?
[08:24:22] <rook2pawn>	is there a sample extension that is a skeleton of how i can write my own
[08:25:12] <TimStarling>	oops, sorry
[08:25:22] <TimStarling>	my skin was set to monobook :)
[08:26:00] <rook2pawn>	All i really want is to make a hook for <object> and allow <params> without editing the santize.php list
[08:26:28] <TimStarling>	right, they have "div#content ul"
[08:26:30] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Tag_extensions
[08:26:51] <TimStarling>	so they could easily override that with "div#content ul#preftoc"
[08:28:16] <TimStarling>	but I'm guessing that's not the only thing that will be broken by having a ul style with a massive specificity
[08:28:24] <rook2pawn>	so if i emit html in my callback, can i bypass the santize.php list?
[08:29:07] <Splarka>	well, some tag extensions obviously do, so it seems likely
[08:30:12] <TimStarling>	what's the opposite of !important?
[08:30:35] <TimStarling>	!middling?
[08:30:35] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "middling?".
[08:30:39] <Splarka>	heh
[08:30:55] <Splarka>	what are you trying to do? make it bow down to any other definition that comes later?
[08:31:15] <Splarka>	(of, I guess, lower specificity)
[08:31:22] <rook2pawn>	specify !important inline is higher than !important in a css dom
[08:31:48] <TimStarling>	that would be useful, yes
[08:32:16] *Splarka 	doesn't think that is possible then, hmm
[08:32:26] <TimStarling>	no
[08:32:34] <Splarka>	except of course, to lower specificity
[08:32:40] <Splarka>	but then you don't override the earlier
[08:32:42] <rook2pawn>	You have to rewrite the css rule, and use string functions to check for !important flag
[08:32:45] <TimStarling>	another item on my todo list "things to fix when I rewrite CSS"
[08:33:14] <Splarka>	so say you have #foo {color:red;}, and want to override that with div#foo {color:blue !importantsorta;}
[08:33:31] <Splarka>	so that a later #foo {color:white;} will work, but that it will never be red
[08:33:44] <Splarka>	you could use transparent or inherit there I suppose
[08:33:55] <Splarka>	but for most rules that probably wouldn't work 
[08:34:07] <Splarka>	hmm, and even then, only partially useful
[08:35:36] *Splarka 	gets down to the .plainlinks
[08:35:42] <Splarka>	okay, this seems to be a case of laziness
[08:35:52] <Splarka>	used in monobook's main.css IIRC too
[08:36:05] <rook2pawn>	if you add a new rule that doesnt have !important, it wont overwrite any previous matching specifiers, you have to find it in the array
[08:36:15] <TimStarling>	yeah, I don't think there's a good reason for the high-specificity ul selector
[08:36:47] <Splarka>	there are dozens of link classes and href selectors (css level 2 and 3)...
[08:37:08] <Splarka>	and no good way to specify them all other than individually listing them, or a single !important
[08:37:31] <TimStarling>	it could be plain ul, you'd just need a few extra rules in the navigation bits
[08:37:55] *Splarka 	gets headache from the skin, stops playing
[08:38:55] <TimStarling>	thanks for that
[08:39:16] <Splarka>	np
[08:40:42] <Splarka>	I'd say there /are/ valid cases, like where a totally separate definition for a dozen rules applied to one element, where one case has to be a higher specificity (like #foo {bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz;bar:baz !important;} vs html body.mediawiki div#globalWrapper div#column-content div#content {..all that..} vs two rules, the !important is fine...
[08:41:11] <Splarka>	or object, object, object, object, object, object, object {rule !important} vs html body.mediawiki div#globalWrapper div#column-content div#content object, html body.mediawiki div#globalWrapper div#column-content div#content object, html body.mediawiki div#globalWrapper div#column-content div#content object, html body.mediawiki div#globalWrapper div#column-content div#content object, ...
[08:42:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) special character breaks wikilink - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19630 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Language setup; (spacebirdy)
[08:43:08] <Splarka>	ugh, this Anime has the worst australian-accented character, thought he was cockney but he keeps saying "crikey"
[08:46:33] <hippietrail_>	any javascript extension developers about?
[08:46:39] <hippietrail_>	when the same onclick function is used for many controls, how does the function know which control it was called for? (in internet explorer)
[08:48:11] <Splarka>	I am guessing the onclick in question is on a parent element to many other html elements?
[08:48:20] <rook2pawn>	I still get the same issue with <object> and swf.. when I preview, it works, but when i save, there is no output
[08:49:43] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) special character breaks wikilink - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19630  -shell  (10raimond.spekking)
[08:50:14] <Splarka>	hippietrail_?
[08:50:40] <Splarka>	hippietrail_: http://p.defau.lt/?SxVxECsKezOS1wQtziJmyw  this type of thing generally works for me
[08:51:28] <Splarka>	assigned when the handler is added via addHandler() in wikibits.js for example, and should work with obj.onclick 
[08:51:52] <Splarka>	e is the event, and target is the node clickified, if you get a sub-node you can .parentNode up until you find what you want
[08:52:22] <hippietrail_>	splarka: i dynamically build a gui for setting some prefs and the onclick is added to prefs which have subprefs
[08:53:03] <hippietrail_>	splarka: yes window.event seems to be it
[08:53:14] <Splarka>	be sure to use lots of nice fallbacks
[08:53:18] <TimStarling>	Splarka: see my comment on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52129
[08:53:21] <Splarka>	I do lots of || to make sure it works in a lot of browsres
[08:53:25] <Splarka>	er, browsers
[08:53:30] <hippietrail_>	so is the passed e the standard or the deviant? just so i know which to treat as the default manner
[08:53:41] *Splarka 	looks
[08:53:54] <Splarka>	hippietrail_: it depends, unfortunately, on the browser and method
[08:54:20] <hippietrail_>	yes i usually dev on ff then test on chrome, opera, safari, and finally msie which is undebuggable on my eeepc
[08:54:26] <Splarka>	<foo onclick="whatever('oh hi')">  is not the same as foo.onclick = whatever; or addHandler(foo,'onclick',whatever)
[08:54:57] <Splarka>	but in the latter two, from memory, it is always the event, like <foo onclick="whatever(this)"> 
[08:55:36] <hippietrail_>	i'm just using "ele.onclick = groupOnclick;" after creating ele as a checkbox
[08:56:30] <Splarka>	Tim: oh, one thing, !important does work later, with higher specificity of course, but then it becomes a tyranny of them
[08:56:50] <hippietrail_>	all current browsers but ie pass an event to the onclick but im not sure if thats an extension in non-ie browsers or a bug in ie
[08:57:04] <Splarka>	an of course, another example, userContent.css almost always requires !important, as it is the topmost (least specific), so any !important in site css is very hard to override then
[08:57:38] <Splarka>	hippietrail_: right, var e = window.event || e;  is probably what you want then
[08:57:57] <TimStarling>	yeah, I do actually know that, but I didn't want to have to make that point
[08:58:03] <Splarka>	k
[08:58:15] <hippietrail_>	thanks splarka. ugly but if thats what i gotta do...
[08:59:11] <TimStarling>	IIRC it's like: element +1, class +10, ID +100, !important +1000
[08:59:23] <TimStarling>	then breaking ties by taking the last with the same score
[09:02:16] <Splarka>	z-index: 999999999;
[09:02:18] <Splarka>	>_<
[09:02:26] <TimStarling>	lol
[09:02:27] <Splarka>	kids and their toys
[09:03:22] *TimStarling 	makes an element with z-index 1000000000 just to spite them
[09:03:27] <JSharp>	sigh
[09:03:29] <JSharp>	heh
[09:03:56] *Splarka 	saw that a few times in the past, to be clear, not in vector
[09:04:32] <TimStarling>	I searched the vector CSS when you said it just in case
[09:10:24] <Splarka>	http://www.migente.com/users/smiley_143/canvas/view_guestbook.html 
[09:11:45] <Splarka>	1405 9's there
[09:14:23] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) cite error wrongly shows up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19631 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (spacebirdy)
[09:19:04] <Reedy>	[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=search&srwhat=text&srsearch=\"based off\"&srlimit=max&format=xml&srnamespace=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|100|101 doesn't] shows up as  "based off\"&srlimit=max&format=xml&srnamespace=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|100|101 doesn't,
[09:20:01] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) cite error wrongly shows up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19631  +comment (10spacebirdy)
[09:21:00] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) New character conversion tag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19620  +comment (10PhiLiP.NPC)
[09:21:06] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) extension to list pages with the most revisors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19632 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: [other]; (alfred.maghi)
[09:22:44] <svip>	Is there an extension that can blow certain phrases/words in titles of articles created by IP users?
[09:23:11] <Splarka>	block?
[09:23:18] <svip>	Refuse to do it.
[09:23:24] <svip>	Similar to the username black list.
[09:23:37] <Splarka>	mmm, Title Blacklist might be able to
[09:23:40] <svip>	Our wiki is having some slight problems with some automatic spammers.
[09:23:46] <Splarka>	Abuse Filter certainly can, but is a bit heavy
[09:24:02] <svip>	I noticed they had "buy" in all their usernames, so I disallowed that in usernames.
[09:24:10] <svip>	Now they just create the userpages without joining.
[09:25:52] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist#Editing_the_blacklist
[09:26:00] <Splarka>	* autoconfirmed - only autoconfirmed users are able to create/upload/move such pages
[09:26:25] <Splarka>	so for example:
[09:26:26] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Titleblacklist
[09:26:32] <Splarka>	.*\bis\s+an?\s+(?:dick|cunt|fag|bitch|shit|fuck|loser|ass|gay|ghey|moron|retard|stupid|slut|pa?edo).* <autoconfirmed>
[09:26:38] <Splarka>	pardon my french
[09:26:51] <svip>	Your French is terrible by the way.
[09:27:23] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) cite error wrongly shows up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19631  +comment (10spacebirdy)
[09:27:42] <rook2pawn>	does anyone know why "preview" edit would look differently than a saved edit?
[09:27:51] <Splarka>	un billion de gr�ces pour mon mauvais fran�ais!
[09:28:09] <p858snake>	rook2pawn: things like templates it won't fully pull them in afaik
[09:28:09] <svip>	Much better.
[09:28:46] <svip>	rook2pawn: That case is more obvious when you are using the template in the template you are editing.
[09:28:49] <Splarka>	svip: title blacklist can also handle usernames
[09:28:54] <Splarka>	so you could ditch username blacklist and just use that
[09:29:02] <svip>	Mmmm
[09:30:01] <rook2pawn>	i wrote an extension that simply puts in some <object> and <param> tags for flash, and it looks fine on preview
[09:30:11] <rook2pawn>	but there is no output when i save it
[09:30:51] <rook2pawn>	and this result is the same if i change santize.php to whitelist the object and param tags and just put in the tags in the page directly 
[09:33:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) extension to list pages with the most revisors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19632  (10alfred.maghi)
[09:35:42] <rook2pawn>	i am guessing that the "preview" must be building the html as normal before the document is finished, whereas the Saved page version has some kind of injection mechanism to put in the html? which is why the object wont "trigger" without javascript?
[09:40:44] <rook2pawn>	does anyone know when extension content is loaded? Is it added before the page is finished, or is it injected into the DOM after the page has finished?
[09:44:51] <svip>	rook2pawn: Does the talk page of the extension not mention this issue?
[09:44:54] <svip>	Or its page itself?
[09:45:01] <svip>	It sounds like a pretty big bug.
[09:45:16] <svip>	Alternatively, you may have an too old MediaWiki version or have a conflicting extension.
[09:49:28] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) small SVG files were not magnified for thumb image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19633 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Images and files; (freyraphael)
[09:51:52] <HeimdallAustria>	I use document.getElementsByTagName('a') to get an array with all the links from a wikipage... is there a way just to get the links the Users entered into the text - field ?
[09:52:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) small SVG files were not magnified for thumb image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19633  (10freyraphael)
[09:54:44] <svip>	HeimdallAustria: You may want to limit it to document.getElementById('content'), as your current version will also get links in the navigation and whatnot.
[09:54:48] <Splarka>	"text - field" ?
[09:54:55] <Splarka>	well
[09:55:04] <Splarka>	each skin has a different wrapper for the content
[09:55:10] <svip>	Dang.
[09:55:12] <Splarka>	and 'modern' doesn't have an element by that ID
[09:55:20] *Splarka 	shakes fist at river
[09:55:55] <Splarka>	and monobook, for example, has bodyContent, but shares it with things like catlinks
[09:57:01] <Splarka>	so you can do something like..   var docobj = document.getElementById('bodyContent') || document.getElementById('content') || document.getElementById('mw-content') || document.body
[09:57:01] <ThomasV>	hi TimStarling. did you see my question about bug 19447 ?
[09:57:54] <Splarka>	but you'll always get a few <a> that aren't user input
[09:59:08] <Splarka>	it sometimes helps to match the a[x].getAttribute('href',2) against wgArticlePath (with $1 removed), that generally gives you the internal links
[09:59:09] <TimStarling>	yes I saw it
[09:59:48] <HeimdallAustria>	thanks for the hint, I'll try these things out 
[09:59:52] <Splarka>	(,2 allows you to see what is in the href="" field, and not the base-ified URL as some browsers will return, like <a href="foo"> will return protocol://site/foo as the .href)
[10:01:39] <vvv>	TimStarling: is there any chances of shared templates storage bug being implemented and enabled on Wikimedia?
[10:02:10] <TimStarling>	ThomasV: you could use an accessor function
[10:02:30] <TimStarling>	vvv: by bug you mean feature?
[10:03:16] <ThomasV>	TimStarling: a function that would do something like if( isset())  ?
[10:03:58] <TimStarling>	if ( is_null() ), you'd have to initialise it to null to avoid having it overwritten by register_globals
[10:04:53] <ThomasV>	I see. thank you
[10:09:13] <rook2pawn>	Has anyone seen a difference with <object> (swf) tags in working in preview but not in save? I see many cases of this searching on google, but no one seems to know
[10:11:07] <vvv>	TimStarling: yes
[10:26:01] <TimStarling>	it's not a high priority
[10:30:21] <vvv>	TimStarling: what's high priority now?
[10:32:20] <Zbiczek>	hello. Could you have a look at the last script at http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%C5%BBbiczek/monobook.js ?
[10:33:00] <Zbiczek>	to be more precise, at function function nacommons_onload(). It adds two link to my sidebar
[10:33:23] <Zbiczek>	I would lke to put these two links running functions in one lini
[10:33:27] <Zbiczek>	line*
[10:34:27] <Zbiczek>	for example "Na Commons! (nazw.)" - when you press "na commons" it would run function nacommons_norm(), and when you press (nazw.) it would run function nacommons_nazw ()
[10:35:34] <Zbiczek>	however,  addPortletLink creates <li>, which contains moving to another line
[10:35:43] <Zbiczek>	do you have any idea?
[10:38:58] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53039 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES languages/messages/MessagesTk.php): * (bug 19630) Add linktrail to Turkmen
[10:38:59] <Dashed>	is it possible to integrate mediawiki's parser into my own application?
[10:39:40] <Splarka>	Zbiczek: make them display:inline via css?
[10:39:50] <werdna>	Dashed: If you try really hard
[10:39:55] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) special character breaks wikilink - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19630  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[10:40:28] <Dashed>	wedna: i was thinking if the api is sufficient =S
[10:40:36] <Splarka>	Zbiczek:  appendCSS('#nacommons-norm, #nacommons-nazw {display:inline;}');
[10:55:50] <CIA-58>	03thomasv * r53040 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/ProofreadPage.php: access page and index namespaces through functions (bug 19447)
[10:58:33] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) User:Connel MacKenzie/clock.js causes errors for non logged-in users - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19634 enhancement; Normal; Wiktionary tools: General; (hippytrail)
[11:05:10] <Zbiczek>	Splarka: this is what I wanted :) However, it makes them appear without this little blue square, as you can see here: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2882/inline.png
[11:05:19] <Zbiczek>	is it fixable?
[11:05:34] <Splarka>	sigh, you can't have everything!
[11:05:51] <Zbiczek>	but I can try :)
[11:06:02] <Splarka>	appendCSS('#nacommons-norm {float:right;list-style:none;}');
[11:06:09] <Splarka>	now you'll complain that there is a big space
[11:13:19] <HeimdallAustria>	I've integrated an applet to each of my wikipage (with <applet nameparam="pagename">. It is the same applet on every page but it needs the name of the page as parameter. What would be the best way to automatically add this applet to every page whithout manually putting the <applet...> tag on it ?
[11:14:43] <Splarka>	HeimdallAustria: is this still in javascript? or php?
[11:15:25] <danielwilms>	hi...does anybody know how to move a selection of pages easily with images from one wiki to another??
[11:16:31] <luna6>	man i'm getting hit with this constant user registration of "User:891 buy viagra" or "User:891 buy viagra‎"
[11:16:31] <HeimdallAustria>	<Splarka> i use a php page to generate the entry for the applet
[11:16:47] <Splarka>	k, dunno then ^_^
[11:16:51] <luna6>	there should be some way to ban certain words like "buy" or "viagra" in user names right?
[11:17:07] <Splarka>	luna6: title blacklist extension
[11:17:20] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist
[11:17:33] <Splarka>	<newaccountonly>
[11:17:45] <luna6>	ok yeah i just want to use it for user names...
[11:17:48] <Splarka>	luna6: someone else was complaining about that too
[11:17:52] <luna6>	that one looks pretty complicated
[11:18:02] <Splarka>	ahh svip was
[11:18:25] <Splarka>	well, there is a lighter version: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Username_Blacklist
[11:18:50] <Splarka>	but it is part of Title Blacklist now
[11:18:50] <luna6>	hmm
[11:18:53] <luna6>	ahh
[11:19:00] <Splarka>	and so is actually obsolete I see, on the page
[11:19:10] <luna6>	hmm I guess I will try username blacklist first
[11:19:19] <luna6>	since it looks easier and i just want to block usernames
[11:19:28] <luna6>	this guy is pissing me off...
[11:19:52] <luna6>	one last question splarka...all the deleted names like 745 buy drugs ...even though it is deleted when you hit "userlist"
[11:19:58] <luna6>	you still see those names in red
[11:20:07] <luna6>	is there anyway to delete it completely?
[11:20:14] <Splarka>	mw doesn't support deleting
[11:20:19] <Splarka>	so probably not
[11:20:33] <luna6>	ok i understand the problem with revisions and probably why there isnt
[11:20:36] <Splarka>	it /sort of/ supports merge and delete
[11:20:44] <luna6>	i dont think this person did any edits besides there own user page
[11:20:57] <Splarka>	as in, renaming is actually something that mostly gets all the nuances in the database 
[11:21:07] <Splarka>	it isn't just edits
[11:21:15] <Splarka>	having no edits doesn't make them deletable
[11:21:34] <luna6>	what else would be the caveat from completely deleting a user then?
[11:21:37] <Splarka>	weird shit can happen, like their username sticking in the user list, heh
[11:21:46] <Splarka>	no idea
[11:21:51] <luna6>	ah ok
[11:22:00] <Splarka>	just don't do it, and if you do, you'll get no sympathy here
[11:22:05] <luna6>	thanks for the help though going to try to set up this username blacklist
[11:22:07] <luna6>	yup
[11:22:11] <Splarka>	!deleteuser
[11:22:11] --mwbot--	Deleting users is very messy and not recommended, because this breaks referential integrity in the database (they appear in many different tables like users, edit histories, recentchanges, preferences, etc). A safe solution is to block the users, and possibly rename them with <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Renameuser>.  You can also try <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:User_Merge_and_Delete>
[11:22:14] <luna6>	im not going to do it :)
[11:27:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SemanticForms autocompletion on property buggy (patch attached) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19406  (10mail)
[11:28:37] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) wrong entry in Special:SiteMatrix - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19635 minor; Normal; Wikimedia: Language setup; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[11:32:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SemanticForms autocompletion on property buggy (patch attached) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19406  +comment (10mail)
[11:45:22] <CIA-58>	03philip * r53041 10/trunk/phase3/languages/LanguageConverter.php: (bug 19620) Allow to convert a string immediately after a new rule added.
[11:45:25] <CIA-58>	03tstarling * r53042 10/trunk/extensions/intersection/DynamicPageList.php: Fixed bug reported on CR r52503, invalid date format passed to $wgLang->date() (DB instead of MW).
[11:52:17] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) New character conversion tag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19620  +comment (10PhiLiP.NPC)
[11:54:45] <CIA-58>	03tstarling * r53043 10/trunk/phase3/includes/MessageCache.php: Made wfMsg('') and wfMsg(null) silently return &lt;&gt; as it did before r52503. Thanks to those who supplied backtraces.
[11:56:10] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Enable $wgBlockAllowsUTEdit for gdwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19636 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (raimond.spekking)
[11:57:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable $wgBlockAllowsUTEdit for gdwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19636  (10raimond.spekking)
[12:03:44] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53044 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (6 files in 4 dirs): 
[12:03:44] <CIA-58>	* Replace LiquidThreads wholesale quoting with a javascript mechanism based on > prefix.
[12:03:44] <CIA-58>	* Some localisation and appearance fixes.
[12:03:44] <CIA-58>	* Replace addCSSJS with something using regular standards for extension scripts and styles.
[12:16:34] <CIA-58>	03tstarling * r53045 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/UsabilityInitiative.php: Revert r52564, arbitrary script inclusion vulnerability.
[12:28:09] <avar>	TimStarling: Did you see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19574 ?
[12:28:48] <TimStarling>	no
[12:28:52] <TimStarling>	I guess I have now though
[12:34:37] <avar>	TimStarling: I "fixed" it by commenting out "return unserialize( .. ->lc_value )" in the l10n cache code. I thought the problem might be that the serialized data in the DB was simply invalid but I can unserialize it from the command line.
[12:35:59] <surban>	Hi everybody, I'm looking for a way to globally define LaTeX commands, that is to have a shortcut "\someShortcut" I can use in any <math>...</math> environment throughout the wiki. Any suggestions?
[12:37:24] <TimStarling>	avar: parserTests.php abuses the database in a very special way
[12:37:44] <TimStarling>	it has lots of hacks to make it work, it probably just needs one extra one
[12:37:54] <rook2pawn>	does anyone know why "preview" edit would look differently than a saved edit? I have some HTML being output in my extension that has <object> tags and it looks fine on preview but no output in save mode
[12:38:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) parserTests.php fails when l10n_cache is populated - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19574  (10avarab)
[12:38:22] <Julius-ZM>	Hi,
[12:39:46] <Julius-ZM>	I would like to have separate "Log in / create account" link. How would it be possible?
[12:40:17] <avar>	TimStarling: I made this hack to it a few days back, but without it it still fails: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52866
[12:40:59] <avar>	It would end up trying to access the temporary parsertest_l10n_cache table which hadn't been created because the parsertests use that array for their CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE calls
[12:41:27] <Julius-ZM>	The problem wit it, when you set up Single Sign On with Joomla and I would like to use the wiki sometimes separately from joomla
[12:42:47] <rook2pawn>	What is the difference between Preview and Save Views? Do they have separate paths of build?
[12:44:55] <TimStarling>	dinner,bbl
[12:52:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10alfred.maghi)
[12:53:06] <stephan48>	!farm
[12:53:06] --mwbot--	To run multiple wikis, you can simply install MediaWiki in different folders, with different databases or in one with database prefixes. You can also have multiple wikis using a single installation: <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_family> and <http://booleandreams.wordpress.com/2007/06/12/running-multiple-instance-of-mediawiki-on-the-same-server-using-the-same-source-code/>.
[13:01:37] <rook2pawn>	What is the difference between Preview versus Save Views? Do they have separate paths of build?
[13:02:20] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53046 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (17 files in 3 dirs): 
[13:02:20] <CIA-58>	War on backwards-incompatibility!
[13:02:20] <CIA-58>	* Rename migration script, and change it from a crappy hack to a total solution for running database and lazy updates.
[13:02:20] <CIA-58>	* Organise, comment, rename and update schema change scripts.
[13:02:20] <CIA-58>	* Fix schema change scripts to work with table prefixes.
[13:02:24] <CIA-58>	* Mark one schema change script as unsafe. It's totally insane and unsafe to run unless you know what you're doing.
[13:02:27] <CIA-58>	* Add lazy update for threads misplaced under the subject instead of the talk page. Might cause weirdness if you suddenly disable liquidthreads for a subject-space.
[13:06:27] <rook2pawn>	Does the "current working directory" change when Previewing an edit versus the Saved version? 
[13:08:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) externallinks have links to self (not that external) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19637 major; Normal; MediaWiki: Templates; (domas.mituzas)
[13:09:49] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) interface language variety should not be reflected in links tables - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19638 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Templates; (domas.mituzas)
[13:15:44] <julielkz>	hi , any suggestion about WYSIWG editor for mediawiki?
[13:16:36] <julielkz>	also, is there a way to restrict users access page by page?
[13:16:42] <werdna>	!access
[13:16:42] --mwbot--	For information on customizing user access, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_rights>. For common examples of restricting access using both rights and extensions, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access>.
[13:16:45] <werdna>	!wysiwyg
[13:16:45] --mwbot--	What You See Is What You Get editors allow you to create articles and see the text formatting without needing to Show Preview. A list of wysiwyg editor extensions may be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:WYSIWYG_extensions>. For some discussion, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIWYG_editor>. See also <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usability>.
[13:16:47] <werdna>	!secrets
[13:16:47] --mwbot--	MediaWiki was not designed with read-restrictions in mind, and may not provide air-tight protection against unauthorized access. We will not be held responsible should private information, such as a password or bank details, be leaked, leading to loss of funds or one's job. See also !lockdown
[13:17:08] <werdna>	!lockdown
[13:17:08] --mwbot--	Lockdown is an extension for preventing read or write access by namespace and limiting access to special pages. For more information, see < http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown >. For general information on preventing access to your wiki, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access >.
[13:19:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API: support for "tags" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19004  (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[13:19:48] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Add sources to enable transwiki importing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19639 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (marco27.wiki)
[13:21:17] <CIA-58>	03daniel * r53047 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/analyzer/WikiTextAnalyzer.java: fixed instantiation parameters
[13:22:54] <CIA-58>	03daniel * r53048 10/trunk/WikiWord/ (5 files in 3 dirs): store resource name in about table
[13:32:27] <Enricus>	hello everyone!</prof fainsworth>
[13:32:49] <Enricus>	guys, i have a doubt: is there any way that i can resume a numbered list if i type a note?
[13:33:26] <GreenAway>	Try to type the note without ending the sequence of characters? For example you could add a <br /> and then the note.
[13:33:38] <GreenAway>	Sequence of # at the start of each line, that is.
[13:34:25] <Enricus>	GreenAway: of course!, let me try it
[13:36:17] <Enricus>	unfortunately it preserves the indention of the numbered list, maybe there's a <div class=""> i can apply to it?
[13:36:43] <Enricus>	or maybe a <br style:clear>?
[13:37:20] <Enricus>	it doesn't work
[13:39:38] <Enricus>	or maybe add like a reference in the end of the page, of course
[13:39:49] <^demon>	Enricus: There's no way to continue a numbered list in wikisyntax. There's an open bug about it.
[13:40:30] <Enricus>	oh really? that would be a great feature. for now i will make a note, just like a reference, i think that will be the best approach
[13:40:48] <Enricus>	^demon, GreenAway: thanks for the help
[13:41:18] <^demon>	Enricus: You could work around it using <ol> and <li> tags manually with the beginning count thing in css.
[13:43:09] <Enricus>	^demon: ok, will try it
[13:43:30] <Enricus>	is the bug expected to be solved any time soon?
[13:43:50] <^demon>	I doubt it, it's been open a long time.
[13:44:18] <Simetrical>	Enricus, you can use HTML syntax.
[13:44:25] <^demon>	Maybe with html5 re-adding start="" it might be more possible.
[13:44:32] <Simetrical>	Like <ol><li>...<li>...</ol>, and continue it with <ol start="">...
[13:44:46] <Simetrical>	^demon, start="" is in XHTML 1.0 Transitional as well, it's just deprecated there.
[13:44:49] <Enricus>	ah ok, will do
[13:44:55] <Enricus>	thanks  a lot guys
[13:44:59] <^demon>	Ah ok.
[13:46:54] <stephan48>	are i am wrong or are in some(api*.php files) the closing php tag is missing?
[13:47:23] <avar>	The page you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site.
[13:47:26] <avar>	The following text is what triggered our spam filter: http://tinyurl.com 
[13:47:28] <avar>	*rage*
[13:47:32] <^demon>	stephen48: They're not there on purpose.
[13:47:45] <werdna>	avar: yep, because tinyurl lets you get around spam filters
[13:47:59] <stephan48>	^demon on which purpose?
[13:48:34] <werdna>	stephan48: Closing PHP tags are unnecessary
[13:48:56] <werdna>	also, if there's unnecessary whitespace after them, then that gets added to the output before all headers are written, causing incorrect headers and PHP errors.
[13:49:04] <Nikerabbit>	hello werdna 
[13:49:13] <stephan48>	but it wont break something if i include them in my code?
[13:49:14] <stephan48>	okey
[13:49:24] <stephan48>	then i will omit them
[13:49:26] <werdna>	hi Nikerabbit 
[13:51:14] <CIA-58>	03daniel * r53049 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/store/builder/DatabaseLocalConceptStoreBuilder.java: DAO fix for about table
[13:51:40] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53050 10/trunk/extensions/Cite/Cite.php: 
[13:51:40] <CIA-58>	* Updated link to documentation, now at mediawiki.org not meta
[13:51:40] <CIA-58>	* Removed links to HTML <cite> element, confusing
[13:55:41] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53051 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/ (SlippyMap.hooks.php SlippyMap.php slippyMapParserTests.txt): (log message trimmed)
[13:55:41] <CIA-58>	* Cleaned up SlippyMap.php a bit, e.g. linking to docs on
[13:55:41] <CIA-58>	mediawiki.org instead of maintaining them in the source where
[13:55:41] <CIA-58>	they're bound to get out of date
[13:55:41] <CIA-58>	* Setting our ParserAfterTidy hook in onParserFirstCallInit instead of
[13:55:45] <CIA-58>	in the main file
[13:55:47] <CIA-58>	* Adding parsertests for slippymap, they fail horribly but I'll fix
[13:56:00] <CIA-58>	03midom * r53052 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQueryCategoryMembers.php: don't allow querying specific namespace if misermode is enabled
[14:09:59] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Categorymembers namespace filter broken in miser mode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19640 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (Platonides)
[14:11:00] <Nikerabbit>	avar: -<?php
[14:11:01] <Nikerabbit>	+<?php
[14:15:14] <sighn>	is it possible in mediawiki, to post pic's in an article with an url?.... something like [pic]http://niceurl.com/pic.png[/pic] ?
[14:15:26] <werdna>	!wg ExternalImages
[14:15:26] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgExternalImages
[14:16:18] <sighn>	okay..the referred page does not exist..but thanks for the hint :)
[14:16:45] <^demon>	!wg AllowExternalImages | sighn
[14:16:45] --mwbot--	sighn: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgAllowExternalImages
[14:17:07] <werdna>	smartass
[14:17:18] <^demon>	:)
[14:20:13] <avar>	Nikerabbit: yes?
[14:22:31] <Nikerabbit>	avar: space change or BOM?
[14:22:46] <stephan48>	how could i retrive the id of a namespace via api?(i have the name)
[14:23:02] <avar>	Nikerabbit: space change
[14:23:09] <Nikerabbit>	stephan48: you can query namespaces from siteinfo
[14:23:19] <uberfuzzy>	stephan48: ?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=namespaces
[14:23:27] <Nikerabbit>	avar: ok then... usually those changes are because of BOM
[14:25:13] <avar>	Nikerabbit: I'm glad to announce that at the tender age of 23 I have yet to use an editor that fails so hard that it added BOM crap into source text I was editing:)
[14:26:16] <Nikerabbit>	avar: really, are you 23?
[14:26:25] <avar>	yeah
[14:26:37] *Nikerabbit 	mumbles what was he thinking
[14:27:20] <stephan48>	ok th uberfuzzy
[14:27:43] <^demon>	I wonder who the youngest person with commit access is.
[14:28:01] <FireJackey>	hello
[14:28:08] <FireJackey>	why $(...) not work @ mediawiki?
[14:28:16] <FireJackey>	(jquery)
[14:28:17] <FireJackey>	i hate jquery(...)...
[14:28:38] <^demon>	jquery was disabled on WMF sites, and it hasn't made it into a production release yet.
[14:28:41] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: I was like 17 when I got it, but there are youngers
[14:28:53] <Nikerabbit>	disabled?
[14:29:04] <Nikerabbit>	like forcefully prevented from working?
[14:30:07] <avar>	I decided I hated the slippymap code so much that I'm rewriting it all
[14:30:49] <avar>	With comments, and functions that don't do 6 things and set 3 global variables that aren't used by anything else
[14:30:54] <guillom>	werdna, I beg you to finish and enable LT; I just can't stand any more all the people who just aren't able to indent properly
[14:30:58] <uberfuzzy>	anyone know what would cause the sha1 hash of all revisions of an image to come up as the hash of the first revision?
[14:31:20] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: That's what I heard.
[14:32:03] <^demon>	[[w:en:Wikipedia:VPT#New_toolbar_and_jQuery_disabled]]
[14:34:16] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) XSLT parameter to API queries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19528  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[14:35:12] <werdna>	guillom: :)
[14:35:19] <werdna>	guillom: wanna tell me what you think of my test site?
[14:36:48] <guillom>	werdna, I looked at it a few days ago; it looked great. The only thing that shocked me was the large amount of wasted space; I have a small screen, and it looks like LT uses much more vertical space for each comment than the current system
[14:38:56] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: ok
[14:39:29] <werdna>	hmm
[14:39:43] <werdna>	guillom: tell me what you think of the quoting mechanism?
[14:40:19] <guillom>	werdna, I'll test it and I'll get back to you
[14:40:29] <werdna>	yay
[14:47:21] <elSjaako>	Hi, I'm developing a special page for mediawiki, and would like it to output without the normal mediawiki interface
[14:48:06] <elSjaako>	Is this possible?
[14:48:07] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  +comment (10harryalffa)
[14:50:38] <CIA-58>	03daniel * r53053 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/ (9 files in 4 dirs): debug interface for ImportConcepts
[14:51:57] <Duesentrieb>	elSjaako: yes, the OutputPage object has a method for disabling output, iirc.
[14:52:03] <Duesentrieb>	Special:Export uses it
[14:52:37] <elSjaako>	thanks, I'll have a look at it
[14:54:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Special:Preferences: Option 'stubthreshold' is not saved if chosen from menu - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19641 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: User preferences; (angus)
[14:55:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[14:55:49] <werdna>	$wgOut->disable();
[14:55:57] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53054 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (classes/LqtView.php lqt.js): 
[14:55:57] <CIA-58>	* Fix LQT output to include only post content in the div.lqt_post
[14:55:57] <CIA-58>	* Fix quoting. If nothing's selected, quote the whole post.
[14:55:57] <CIA-58>	* Trim quote before quoting, sometimes you can get lots of random newlines.
[14:55:57] <CIA-58>	* Fix JS warning for internal call to handleReplyLink by conditionally calling preventDefault.
[15:00:23] <stephan48>	next question: is it possible to get all sites from one categorie but not those which are in one other names categorie(to get all sites in a categorie i know but i hope there is an easyer way then querying each pages categorys and check)
[15:02:31] <werdna>	you mean category intersection
[15:02:34] <werdna>	!intersection
[15:02:34] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "intersection".
[15:02:39] <werdna>	@search intersection
[15:02:39] --mwbot--	Results: []
[15:08:36] <Subfader>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList
[15:08:49] <Subfader>	or http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList_(third-party) for more functionality
[15:09:18] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53055 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/OpenStreetMap.js: OpenStreetMap.js hasn't been used in a while, we use SlippyMap.js now
[15:12:02] <stephan48>	werdna how you mean that?
[15:12:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Show buttons not working on Nokia E51 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19403  +comment (10brion)
[15:14:22] <Subfader>	stephan48: werdna tried to link to intersection which is Extension:DynamicPageList
[15:23:33] <stephan48>	okey
[15:31:43] <Subfader>	how can I disable redirects being listed in the new search? when i untick it under "Advanced" it searches it nontheless. on mediawiki.org the checkbox for redirs is missing
[15:34:11] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53056 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: Fixed anchor not closing.
[15:34:48] <Subfader>	redirects have nothing to do in the standard search imo. there's a special page for it though. Special:ListRedirects could include a search...
[15:35:59] <Subfader>	but my question is actually why mediawiki.org doesn't have the redir checkbox under "Advanced". I do have it and unticking it doesn't work
[15:42:02] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53057 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.css: Made survey fixed width and improved the spacing of things.
[15:44:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) API: support for "tags" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19004  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[15:45:26] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53058 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: Added return-to page parameter to form target.
[15:45:58] <Subfader>	redirects are always redirs=1. is it a known bug and therfor the checkbox is hidden in the new search?
[15:47:37] <stephan48>	is this page interception possible too without accessing the db?
[15:47:46] <stephan48>	(also not directly)
[15:47:50] <Subfader>	nope
[15:48:09] <Subfader>	Extension:DynamicPageList_(third-party) can use cached results but this is experimental atm
[15:48:43] <stephan48>	arg ok
[15:48:50] <Subfader>	actually not sure if Extension:DynamicPageList uses chached results but i guess not
[15:49:13] <charitwo>	DPL2 has the option to
[15:49:17] <stephan48>	ok
[15:49:25] <Subfader>	DPL2 = Extension:DynamicPageList_(third-party)
[15:49:28] <Subfader>	very confusing
[15:49:39] <stephan48>	and this DPL is accessable via api? :)
[15:49:58] <RoanKattouw>	no
[15:50:03] <Subfader>	intersection = Extension:DynamicPageList and 
[15:50:04] <Subfader>	DPL2 = Extension:DynamicPageList (third-party)
[15:50:06] <stephan48>	ok
[15:50:14] <stephan48>	theres my problem
[15:50:58] <Subfader>	if Extension:DynamicPageList fits your needs use this. if you need more options you would need to use the third party extension, but it can be very expensive on db loads
[15:51:40] <Subfader>	esp with multiple queries running on one page :O
[15:51:48] <stephan48>	okey
[15:52:45] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53059 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: OptIn: Move hidden field back into the form
[15:53:58] <Subfader>	so what about the redirs in teh new search? does anybody know if it gets fixed soon?
[15:54:31] <stephan48>	i need to archive following: i need a list of pages that are in a category called exportable(so my plugin/bot know that the page should be exported out of the master wiki(and imported in the slave wiki)) and when they are in a second group they wont get imported again(if client wiki wish to have an own version)
[15:55:05] <stephan48>	but i think we will simply do it on the way to remove pages that shouldnt be exported/imported from the specific category
[15:56:35] <stephan48>	(it should be a plugin/bot combi to slave changes from a master wiki to client wikis automatically)
[15:56:48] <stephan48>	does such plugin already exist?
[15:57:03] <Subfader>	all this doesn't sound like you need DPL
[15:59:01] <stephan48>	Subfader jop
[15:59:13] <stephan48>	i think so too i need something thats accessible by the api
[15:59:22] <stephan48>	like DPL
[15:59:41] <RoanKattouw>	stephan48: What exactly do you want to get from the API?
[15:59:46] <RoanKattouw>	You might not need an extension
[16:00:41] <stephan48>	a list of pages that is in Category Export and not in category Ignore(if a site is is in bith groups it should be ignored and not listed)
[16:00:58] <stephan48>	(or listed and marked with a tag or something)
[16:03:04] <Subfader>	but you need that to base your export / import on?
[16:04:17] <stephan48>	jop
[16:04:45] <stephan48>	i simply need a list of sites the import/export we will make via an extra api modules
[16:05:46] <yanou>	Is there any maintenance script to conwert database from latin_1_ci to Binary?
[16:10:57] <stephan48>	RoanKattouw is that clear enought?
[16:12:21] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53060 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Solved rg vulnerability in UsabilityInitiative extension. IMPORTANT! YOU MUST NOW INCLUDE MODULES DIRECTLY OR THING MAY BREAK!
[16:12:44] <dhaumann>	hi, I get a lot of new user accounts of the scheme "80 buy ..." that spam their user page with external links.
[16:12:58] <dhaumann>	does anything like a user account creation filter exist?
[16:13:13] <Mike_lifeguard>	dhaumann: do you use spam blacklist extension?
[16:14:04] <dhaumann>	Mike_lifeguard: probably not (http://techbase.kde.org/Special:Version)
[16:14:49] <Mike_lifeguard>	!e SpamBlacklist
[16:14:49] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpamBlacklist
[16:14:54] <Subfader>	dhaumann: i use http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit to add a simple math captcha for account regiustration. very effective
[16:15:07] <Mike_lifeguard>	and then the captca ones (I always forget what they're called)
[16:16:34] <dhaumann>	thanks for both links. I'm pretty sure that will do the trick
[16:17:19] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53061 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.php: Fixed rg vulnerability.
[16:18:27] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53062 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Resources/jquery.combined.js: UsabilityInitiative: Unminify jQuery for now per Andrew
[16:21:33] <stephan48>	does any one have an idea how to solve my problem effectivly?
[16:32:40] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53063 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/ (OptIn.i18n.php SpecialOptIn.php): Finished adding the return-to links.
[16:35:33] <stephan48>	it it possible to create own groups?
[16:36:59] <charitwo>	yes, just set a custom $wgGroupPermission
[16:37:38] <charitwo>	$wgGroupPermissions['deletionist']['delete'] = true;
[16:38:03] <charitwo>	put something like that in localsettings.php and it will be able to assigned via user rights
[16:38:58] <TC-nbigelow>	what php file do i edit if i want the upload pages link on the sidebar to redirect somewhere else?
[16:39:59] <RoanKattouw>	TC-nbigelow: none
[16:40:02] <RoanKattouw>	!sidebar | TC-nbigelow 
[16:40:02] --mwbot--	TC-nbigelow: To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>.
[16:40:41] <stephan48>	@search groups
[16:40:41] --mwbot--	Results: [protect, rightssql]
[16:41:44] <TC-nbigelow>	Well, I'm working on a wiki farm set up and am pulling from on code base
[16:42:07] <TC-nbigelow>	so instead of changing that, i'd prefer to change the php file so i wouldn't have to do it 5 or 6 times.
[16:42:34] <RoanKattouw>	Don't; you'll changes will get overwritten when you upgrade
[16:42:40] <RoanKattouw>	Just copypaste stufff
[16:48:36] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53064 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: More parsertests, the code that actually emits these is undergoing major changes and hasn't been comitted yet
[16:55:32] <stephan48>	RoanKattouw so will i need an extension for my problem?
[16:55:40] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[16:56:17] <stephan48>	ok could you advise me one that is accesible via api?
[16:57:37] <RoanKattouw>	I don't think there are any
[16:57:52] <Nikerabbit>	ugga
[16:58:38] <stephan48>	ok damn
[16:58:57] <Nikerabbit>	bugga
[17:03:23] <ubajas>	Any tag / character sequence commonly used to display terminal output / code? Probably FAQ-ish...
[17:05:59] <Simetrical>	ubajas, <code>, <pre>, <tt>.  Same as HTML, mostly.
[17:06:07] <Simetrical>	Also you can start the line with a space, that makes <pre>.
[17:07:21] <ubajas>	Ah, thanks a bunch.
[17:07:58] <Nikerabbit>	is there a difference between a hunch and a bunch
[17:08:21] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: A bunch is a collection of things, a hunch is a feeling?
[17:09:57] <Nikerabbit>	which kind of feeling?
[17:11:14] <GreenReaper>	"I have a feeling/a hunch that MediaWiki will get faster over time"
[17:11:29] <GreenReaper>	It is a forward-looking speculative statement.
[17:12:12] <GreenReaper>	It is not necessarily based on reason - it is a guess, although it may be aided by experience.
[17:13:29] <GreenReaper>	A bunch is like a handful, or a small collection (often used for berries or vegetables).
[17:14:18] <Morbus>	has anyone had problems with DPL 1.8.6 doing odd things, like not returning results for the simplest of queries (like {{#dpl: namespace = File | category = "All images of death by" }}
[17:14:18] <Morbus>	) - with or without quotes
[17:14:18] <GreenReaper>	There is an implication that they grew together, or have some other close association.
[17:16:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[17:16:27] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53065 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Resources/jquery.js: Grabbed new copy of the same version of jQuery, this one without strange end of line issues.
[17:16:44] <Morbus>	oh.
[17:16:54] <Morbus>	weird. it appears that my parser or string functions doesn't appear to be working ocrrectly with the upgrade.
[17:17:02] <Morbus>	or, else, my template code was wrong all along.
[17:17:17] <Morbus>	as all my files are nearly broken.
[17:17:40] <Morbus>	would "{{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACE}} | Image"
[17:17:44] <Morbus>	fail with the change to "File"?
[17:17:55] <RoanKattouw>	Morbus: I think so, yes
[17:17:57] <Simetrical>	Function whose three return values are "probably", "maybe", and "no": entertaining, but maybe not that well-designed.
[17:18:11] <Morbus>	RoanKattouw: hrm. great. ok. thanks. i didn't see an upgrade note on stuff like this. should i have?
[17:20:08] <Simetrical>	Morbus, it's in the release notes for sure.  Mostly it doesn't make a difference, because there's an alias in place.
[17:20:17] <Simetrical>	But for simple string compare like #ifeq, yes, you'll have to change it.
[17:20:37] <Simetrical>	It's not likely to change again in the future, don't worry.
[17:20:47] <Simetrical>	If you wanted to, you could change it back for your own site.
[17:20:49] <Morbus>	should I /not/ be doing simple string compares on a namepace?
[17:20:56] <Morbus>	nah, i'd rather move forward, then backward support.
[17:21:05] <Simetrical>	Well, I don't think you have any alternative in ParserFunctions, actually.
[17:21:23] <Simetrical>	You could use the namespace number, I assume (is that available?), but that would be pretty ugly.
[17:21:32] <Morbus>	yeah.
[17:22:00] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53066 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Resources/ (jquery.combined.js jquery.combined.min.js): UsabilityInitiative: Recombining jQuery, adding as yet unused minified version
[17:25:54] <Morbus>	thankfully, i didn't have a ton of templates, so that should be sorted.
[17:26:05] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53067 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Resources/ (jquery.combined.js jquery.combined.min.js): UsabilityInitiative: Remove duplicate instance of jquery.js, AGAIN *sigh*
[17:28:08] <Nikerabbit>	what's up
[17:28:23] *Morbus 	catches up on changelog.
[17:28:35] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: the more I think up html5, the better it sounds
[17:28:39] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, :)
[17:29:51] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: maybe one could turn one mediawiki html page source into html5 by hand to demonstrate the readability?
[17:30:19] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, I did that for private consumption once, which is where I got the 5% post-gzip reduction in size figure from.
[17:30:20] <Morbus>	Simetrical: hrm. i suppose instead of {{NAMESPACE}} | Image, I could have done {{NAMESPACE}} | {{NS_IMAGE}}
[17:30:27] <Morbus>	If i read the notes right, that should have survived the update
[17:30:42] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, look at aryeh.name for some (IMO :P) super-readable HTML.
[17:30:59] <Simetrical>	Morbus, you mean {{ns:Image}}?  Right, that would work.
[17:31:02] <Simetrical>	(I think)
[17:31:09] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: I don't care the size myself, but it would be interesting how much it would affect readability of mediawiki html output
[17:31:53] <GreenReaper>	Pfft, you shouldn't be reading it anyway. <g>
[17:32:20] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: mostly I do when I lookup what var_dump does or the debug comments
[17:32:27] <GreenReaper>	Mmm.
[17:33:17] <GreenReaper>	What matters most for me is that the logical flow is preseved. (That also helps browsers like Opera Mobile figure out how to display it properly.)
[17:33:43] <GreenReaper>	Some sites figure as long as it's presented OK using the standard CSS it'll look good, but it ends up a mess if you don't have that. 
[17:35:20] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, http://dpaste.com/65559/  http://dpaste.com/65561/
[17:35:28] <rook2pawn>	What is the difference between Preview versus Save Views? Do they have separate paths of build?
[17:35:46] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, although to be fair, my site has a lot less includes.  On Wikipedia all the <script> and <style> would dominate, and the difference would be less noticeable.
[17:35:57] <Simetrical>	rook2pawn, one saves, the other previews . . .
[17:38:18] <rook2pawn>	i have a swf object that loads on preview, but doesnt on save
[17:38:32] <rook2pawn>	even though the HTML source is the same when i inspect it
[17:39:18] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, well, also I don't actually need the Content-Style-Type and Content-Script-Type, since I don't use style="" or on(load/focus/etc.)="" on my site, but I might in the future, and I'd technically need those then.
[17:41:53] <rook2pawn>	is this comment implying that Preview Mode has a different CWD than Saved Mode? http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Flash#Flashes_that_only_display_in_preview_mode-_Solution
[17:43:20] <Nikerabbit>	anyone here familiar with lighttpd? can I force it to send 503 code temporarily?
[17:43:40] <Simetrical>	Yes, and probably.
[17:43:44] <Simetrical>	It should be a simple config option, surely?
[17:45:56] <^demon>	Ew, Extension:Flash uses $wgExtensionFunctions and $wgParser.
[17:46:40] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: can't find any
[17:47:16] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Abus filter in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19642 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (ladsgroup)
[17:49:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Abuse filter in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19642   +shell; summary; +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:49:39] <chuck>	how do I fix the function name typo that made it through the review process?
[17:49:56] <RoanKattouw>	chuck: Which one?
[17:50:09] <chuck>	wfRunHook
[17:50:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add sources to enable transwiki importing on vec.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19639  summary (10marco27.wiki)
[17:51:05] <RoanKattouw>	Which file?
[17:51:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add sources to enable transwiki importing on vec.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19639  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:52:01] <chuck>	special user rights
[17:52:06] <chuck>	SpecialUserRights.php
[17:52:14] <^demon>	Haha, just found it.
[17:57:37] <rook2pawn>	what scripts are run in preview vs scripts that are run in save? 
[17:58:06] <rook2pawn>	is there a dev place that talks about these details?
[17:58:13] <^demon>	Probably not.
[18:00:40] <Simetrical>	rook2pawn, look in includes/Article.php, IIRC there should be "preview" and "save" methods.
[18:00:45] <Simetrical>	They run different logic, obviously.
[18:01:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add sources to enable transwiki importing on vec.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19639  (10marco27.wiki)
[18:02:47] <^demon>	Simetrical: Not afaik....I thought that's handled all by EditPage....?
[18:02:56] <Simetrical>	Eh, maybe.
[18:03:04] <werdna>	no, it's all handled by EditPage
[18:03:30] <^demon>	That's what I thought.
[18:06:31] <CIA-58>	03dale * r53069 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/ (3 files in 3 dirs): minor fixes
[18:13:14] <thedj>	rook2pawn: looking good so far on the toolbar.
[18:13:23] <thedj>	RoanKattouw: ^
[18:13:58] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah
[18:42:29] <HeimdallAustria>	I'd like to automatically integrate a java-applet to each of my wiki pages without the need of writing <Applet>(what I have to do at the moment) on the Page. Does someone have an idea how to achieve this ? 
[18:43:40] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53070 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: More paramater validation parsertests
[18:44:20] <avar>	HeimdallAustria: Find the list of allowed html tags in mediawiki and add <applet> to that list
[18:45:04] <Nikerabbit>	without
[18:45:52] <avar>	right, then edit the skin files or something
[18:46:31] <HeimdallAustria>	avar: this puts my applet on every page ? 
[18:47:58] <avar>	HeimdallAustria: Totally
[18:49:31] <^demon>	See, this is why the skin system needs sanity....any custom changes you make to it get overwritten on upgrade.
[18:49:34] <^demon>	*sigh*
[18:49:38] <HeimdallAustria>	well, i'll give it a try thanx
[18:51:32] <avar>	^demon: Version control systems are somewhat good at solvig this problem for you
[18:51:44] <avar>	(not that the skin system doesn't suck:)
[18:52:41] <^demon>	avar: Assuming the user is getting their copies from svn ;-)
[18:55:51] <chuck>	you could also just use a hook, HeimdallAustria 
[18:58:24] <HeimdallAustria>	chuck : I am still searching through the hooks which one is useful
[19:03:43] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53071 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: 
[19:03:43] <CIA-58>	* Parser tests for zoom=
[19:03:43] <CIA-58>	* Test too many numbers after the decimal point
[19:07:58] <CIA-58>	03ialex * r53072 10/trunk/extensions/ (10 files in 7 dirs): 
[19:07:58] <CIA-58>	* svn:eol-style native
[19:07:58] <CIA-58>	* svn:mime-tyle image/svg+xml
[19:19:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Categorymembers namespace filter broken in miser mode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19640  +comment (10cbm)
[19:19:49] <Nikerabbit>	haha
[19:20:08] <carl-m>	hmm? 
[19:20:13] <Nikerabbit>	that bug
[19:21:15] <carl-m>	it's brilliant
[19:22:37] <Nikerabbit>	original research
[19:22:44] <carl-m>	apparently there must be performance issues with the join 
[19:22:56] <Nikerabbit>	there is
[19:23:08] <Nikerabbit>	and cranky bone domas didn't want to wait
[19:23:23] <carl-m>	fine; he should patch the documentation as well
[19:23:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  (10jidanni)
[19:23:48] <Nikerabbit>	(fyi, I'm not judging domas here)
[19:24:17] <carl-m>	you have to disable things that have too much performance penalty, that's not an issue
[19:24:59] <Nikerabbit>	if the site explodes, that's an issue too
[19:25:22] <carl-m>	that's what I mean
[19:25:28] <Simetrical>	The one who wrote the bad code should fix it.
[19:25:41] <Simetrical>	Someone who's fixing a critical performance issue should not have to worry about getting all the details right.
[19:26:00] <carl-m>	hmm? it's an issue, but not a critical one
[19:26:16] <carl-m>	given that the code was live for months
[19:26:16] <Simetrical>	domas thought it was a critical performance issue.
[19:26:23] <Simetrical>	That doesn't mean anyone was using it for months.
[19:26:28] <carl-m>	I was using it :)
[19:26:31] <Simetrical>	domas found queries running for 20 minutes.
[19:26:40] <Simetrical>	Maybe not in an inefficient manner.  Who knows.
[19:26:46] <Simetrical>	Or maybe he just hadn't noticed.
[19:26:53] <Simetrical>	Critical doesn't necessarily mean it has to crash the site.
[19:27:02] <Simetrical>	Or otherwise be obvious.
[19:27:07] <carl-m>	right. and there are different philosophies about whether to put through half-baked patches
[19:27:31] <carl-m>	anyway, it's easy to work around
[19:28:47] <domas>	what
[19:28:51] <domas>	is anyone unhappy?
[19:29:29] *guillom 	is happy
[19:29:37] <domas>	good
[19:29:41] *guillom 	spreads some happiness in the channel
[19:29:46] *LauraHale 	is always unhappy :D
[19:30:29] *Nikerabbit 	throws strawberries at crowd
[19:31:14] <carl-m>	domas: I'm happy you're keeping the site up, but unhappy whenever there is a breaking change in the API that is not announced
[19:31:49] *Nikerabbit 	stuffs some strawberries
[19:32:32] *^demon 	gets out a big pot of melted chocolate for the strawberries.
[19:32:33] <domas>	carl-m: thats because people put in _breaking_ changes into the API
[19:32:33] <domas>	;-)
[19:32:34] <Rjd0060>	Hi Nikerabbit (from -i18n) - I can't talk until my other client is done joining all the channels :)
[19:34:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) sidebar rendered over wiki content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12357  normal->major; normal->highest; +comment (10k_pajak)
[19:36:45] <wikibugs>	03(mod) sitemap-index doesn't include full location path - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9675  +comment (10jidanni)
[19:36:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Maintenance script cleanup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19133  (10jidanni)
[19:37:13] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53073 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: Tests for width/height values
[19:37:18] <chuck>	is the mod to 12357 a mistake?
[19:37:43] <chuck>	he's talking about something completely unrelated as it seems
[19:39:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) sidebar rendered over wiki content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12357  major->normal; highest->normal; +comment (10charlie)
[19:40:34] <domas>	carl-m: feel free to document
[19:41:26] <MrZ-man>	it would probably be better if the query just failed, rather than ignoring the parameter
[19:41:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) $wgServer can't be set properly with --server attribute in command line tools - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19593  +comment (10jidanni)
[19:41:43] <domas>	feel free to change that
[19:41:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Maintenance script cleanup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19133  (10jidanni)
[19:42:01] <carl-m>	well, now that the change is live it would be better to just fix the performance issue instead of breaking things again
[19:42:16] <carl-m>	domas said in a code comment that he told someone how to fix it
[19:42:34] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Special:Upload gives tedious warning about changing spaces to underscores in file names - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16968  +comment (10subfader)
[19:42:35] <domas>	that was ages ago
[19:42:36] <domas>	:)
[19:42:42] <domas>	if people need subcategories
[19:42:46] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53074 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: Merged some tests, now I only have 6
[19:42:49] <domas>	there're few ways how to provide subcategories
[19:42:50] <domas>	;-)
[19:43:04] <domas>	it is simple
[19:43:09] <domas>	you just structure data that way
[19:43:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Special:Upload gives tedious warning about changing spaces to underscores in file names - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16968  (10subfader)
[19:44:00] <domas>	at WMF we have categories with hundreds of thousands of entries
[19:44:05] <domas>	they tend to hit all sorts of edge cases
[19:44:13] <domas>	if you rely on 'maybe it will work'
[19:44:16] <domas>	without ensuring that
[19:44:36] <carl-m>	I don't think anyone is complaining about disabling the code
[19:44:55] <domas>	so what are you complaining about? :)
[19:45:13] <carl-m>	the lack of an announcement that a breaking change was live on the wiki
[19:45:22] <domas>	BREAKING CHANGE ON THE WIKI
[19:45:24] <domas>	here
[19:45:25] <domas>	I announced it
[19:45:39] <domas>	did anyone announce about every breaking change they introduced on live site?
[19:45:51] <carl-m>	Roan has made an effort to, yes
[19:46:25] <domas>	dear users, please announce before making something what could do this: http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/pmtpa/graph.php?c=MySQL&h=ixia.pmtpa.wmnet&v=55.3&m=part_max_used&r=month&z=medium&jr=&js=
[19:46:37] <domas>	because, you know, I can not notice that
[19:46:42] <domas>	and then the site would explode
[19:46:46] <domas>	and everyone would be unhappy
[19:47:00] <thedj>	hmm, i notice hiddencats are in the meta keywords ... is that smart ?
[19:47:07] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[19:47:12] <Nikerabbit>	domas: what does that measure?
[19:47:18] <domas>	nikerabbit: filesystem use
[19:47:22] <domas>	nikerabbit: thats growth of commons data
[19:47:29] <Nikerabbit>	in percents?
[19:47:34] *thedj 	thinks i should file a bugreport about that.
[19:47:36] <domas>	well, it is partition use
[19:47:41] <domas>	so yeah
[19:47:48] <domas>	it used 40%, and after a week it used 60%
[19:47:49] <domas>	+50%
[19:47:58] <domas>	I have to rebuild whole s3 now
[19:48:01] <domas>	thanks to that
[19:48:24] <domas>	split off commons, think of changes in mediawiki, rebuild s3, build s4, etc
[19:48:43] <Nikerabbit>	:o is the cause known?
[19:48:50] <MrZ-man>	thedj: Does anyone actually use meta keywords? I thought I read somewhere that most search engines ignore them
[19:48:53] <FunPika>	don't forget trout slapping whoevers responsible ;)
[19:48:55] <domas>	nikerabbit: multi-language templates
[19:49:16] <AaronSchulz>	ugh
[19:49:18] <thedj>	MrZ-man: hmm. no clue 
[19:49:25] <thedj>	i'll look into that
[19:49:32] <domas>	e.g. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Cc-by-3.0
[19:50:00] <MrZ-man>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_tag#The_keywords_attribute
[19:50:14] <MrZ-man>	Google doesn't, Yahoo might
[19:50:24] <MrZ-man>	but that was as of 2 years ago
[19:51:04] <Nikerabbit>	domas: awww
[19:51:32] <domas>	nikerabbit: every image gets 100 pagelinks, 100 externallinks, etc
[19:51:35] <Nikerabbit>	domas: you hate languages by now, don't you?
[19:51:42] <domas>	a bit
[19:51:54] <MrZ-man>	"With respect to Google, thirty-seven leaders in search engine optimization concluded in April 2007 that the relevance of having your keywords in the meta-attribute keywords is little to none"
[19:52:42] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: Thanks for doing the mailing list post
[19:53:46] <domas>	how to exclude certain pages/templates/etc from appearing in pagelinks?:)
[19:54:03] <domas>	apart from manual filters
[19:54:24] <thedj>	so why are we spending time on generating the meta keywords at all then ?
[19:55:00] <carl-m>	Roan-meeting: I forgot there is an announce list as well
[19:55:01] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Parser test: External links: wiki links within external link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19643 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[19:55:26] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53075 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: removing comment
[19:56:19] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53076 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.js: Fixed bug that made other checkbox toggle when textbox was clicked.
[19:58:40] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53077 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: Tests for mode=
[20:03:44] <domas>	screw that
[20:03:53] <domas>	will go to sleep
[20:03:57] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53078 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: A test for caption=
[20:03:58] <domas>	get back to this frustration later
[20:03:59] <domas>	;-))
[20:04:06] <GreenReaper>	Sleep tight.
[20:04:48] <Nikerabbit>	how does one sleep tight?
[20:05:53] <avar>	Nikerabbit: very carefully
[20:06:38] <GreenReaper>	It is intended to mean "securely" or "soundly". The usage is similar to "sit tight".
[20:06:51] *jdpond 	Sleeps "tight" after bottle of tequila
[20:09:25] <jdpond>	^demon: Is whitelist check still necessary after usercan in img_auth?
[20:11:39] <vvv>	Hm
[20:12:03] <vvv>	Search bar and toolbox disappear on non-view actions now
[20:12:11] <vvv>	Is that a supposed behavior?
[20:13:47] <jdpond>	What is the "accepted" syntax for new hook?  "class:hookname" or just "hookname"?
[20:14:37] <thedj>	vvv: where?
[20:14:50] <vvv>	thedj: trunk version
[20:14:56] <Nikerabbit>	jdpond: something consistent with the existing iconsistent would be nice
[20:16:15] <thedj>	vector or monobook ?
[20:16:27] <vvv>	Monobook
[20:17:54] <^demon>	jdpond: Probably not.
[20:18:05] <jdpond>	was going to propose/add hook to img_auth while I'm localizing it.  Was wondering if "img_auth:PreStream" or "ImgAuthPreStream".  Striving to be consistent with inconsistency matrixed with chaos.
[20:18:29] <^demon>	The vast majority aren't class::Hook form, dunno why we started using that.
[20:18:31] <werdna>	jdpond: there's no consistency in hook names, thus nothing to be consistet with :)
[20:18:36] *vvv 	found it was his local changes bug...
[20:20:07] <jdpond>	Ok - going with ImgAuthPreStream
[20:20:33] <Nikerabbit>	Pre?
[20:20:38] <Nikerabbit>	Is that a word
[20:20:46] <avar>	Nikerabbit: does mw support pluralization now, so I don't have tod:
[20:20:46] <avar>	    'slippymap_error_unknown_attribute' => "The attribute <tt>$1</tt> is unknown.",
[20:20:50] <avar>	    'slippymap_error_unknown_attributes' => "The attributes $1 are unknown.",
[20:20:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Parser test: External links: wiki links within external link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19643  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[20:21:08] <Nikerabbit>	avar: it supported it before you went to do something else
[20:21:31] <Nikerabbit>	just remember to use the "correct" functions
[20:22:09] <avar>	which are?:)
[20:22:15] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) problem with calling wrong table in database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19644 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (bertrand.grondin)
[20:22:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) problem with calling wrong table in database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19644  15enhancement->04CRIT (10bertrand.grondin)
[20:22:32] <Nikerabbit>	addWikiMsg, wrapWikiMsg, wfMsgExt with parse, parsemag or parseinline
[20:23:59] <jdpond>	Ok ImageAuthBeforeStream?
[20:24:53] <jdpond>	Make that ImgAuthBeforeStream
[20:29:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) problem with calling wrong table in database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19644  +comment (10bertrand.grondin)
[20:29:43] <MrZ-man>	I don't think there's really any consistency to hook names
[20:31:25] <MrZ-man>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions doesn't mention anything
[20:32:13] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53079 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: 
[20:32:13] <CIA-58>	* Test for invalid extra arguments
[20:32:13] <CIA-58>	* Fix for other tests which had invalid extra arguments
[20:33:34] <enygma>	okay, I give....why can't I get search results with my SQLite install?
[20:34:03] <CIA-58>	03avar * r53080 10/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/slippyMapParserTests.txt: More consistency in test names
[20:35:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  (10harryalffa)
[20:36:31] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) wikibits.js produce javascript error in IE7 on Special:Sitematrix - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19645 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[20:36:42] <Simetrical>	enygma, does SQLite have a search driver?
[20:36:46] <Simetrical>	That's very DB-specific.
[20:37:03] <enygma>	hmm
[20:37:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  (10harryalffa)
[20:37:11] *enygma 	checks
[20:38:40] <CIA-58>	03grondin * r53081 10/trunk/extensions/ (DynamicPageList/DPLSetup.php ProofreadPage/ProofreadPage.php): 
[20:38:40] <CIA-58>	Fixed wrong call database in ProofReadPage extension (prefix omitted)
[20:38:40] <CIA-58>	Fixed deleted function : DPL_i18n::getMessages() (in DPL extension)
[20:38:54] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) problem with calling wrong table in database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19644  +comment (10bertrand.grondin)
[20:43:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) fatal error in DynamicPageList - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19434  (10bertrand.grondin)
[21:02:41] <Reedy>	Bah, Roans busy
[21:05:09] <Reedy>	Found what i wanted.. I think
[21:07:56] <torti->	evening, i'm looking for an extension (or built in function of mediawiki) to generate charts like http://www.recomgmbh.com/Images/charts/silber_chart06.gif or http://www.rohstoff-trader.de/historische_charts/langfristchart_historischer_chart_orangensaft.gif - basicly display data of a table in an image
[21:08:24] <torti->	does anyone have a hint for me?
[21:10:08] <GreenReaper>	Hmm. There's EasyTimeline but I'm not sure it does quite what you want.
[21:10:40] <GreenReaper>	It can create graphs like http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Timeline_of_charity_donations
[21:11:18] <torti->	i've seen that one. but i don't think timelines are what i need
[21:11:27] <torti->	hm
[21:11:35] <torti->	maybe
[21:12:25] <torti->	i want to graph the mileage in l/100km for a car
[21:12:52] <torti->	i'll give it a shot - thanks
[21:13:06] <Subfader>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Wgraph maybe
[21:16:24] <torti->	Subfader no that won't do the job
[21:16:30] <chuck>	werdna: you're a cocoa developer?
[21:16:39] <werdna>	chuck: I'm trying :)
[21:17:14] <Simetrical>	Hmm?  Cocoa developer?
[21:18:03] <chuck>	werdna: ah, cool
[21:18:19] <chuck>	i've been playing with cocoa (and more recently, cocoa touch), but i haven't made the jump into the developer program like you have
[21:18:22] <werdna>	Simetrical: Cocoa = Apple's dev environment
[21:18:39] <werdna>	chuck: I haven't signed up for that yet either, the interface is broken
[21:18:43] <Simetrical>	Yeah, I know.
[21:18:53] <chuck>	i hoenstly probably should, considering i'm in the process of writing a web application to help cocoa touch developers and it's getting annoying to force friends that *do* have access to provision applications for me
[21:18:55] <Simetrical>	"Cocoa developer" means "someone who writes stuff in Cocoa", then?
[21:18:55] <werdna>	Simetrical: I'm trying to get into iPhone dev
[21:18:59] <chuck>	*honestly
[21:19:00] <werdna>	yes
[21:19:05] <werdna>	although I hardly do
[21:19:09] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Localization of img_auth.php - with enhancements - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19646 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Images and files; (jack.pond)
[21:19:11] <werdna>	I'm getting there though
[21:20:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localization of img_auth.php - with enhancements - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19646  (10jack.pond)
[21:21:43] *Simetrical 	vaguely wants to get into browser development, but hasn't found the time.
[21:22:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localization of img_auth.php - with enhancements - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19646  (10raimond.spekking)
[21:23:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localization of img_auth.php - with enhancements - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19646  (10raimond.spekking)
[21:33:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Spanish wikipedia XML dump problems - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18694  +comment (10Platonides)
[21:35:27] <Doink9731>	Hi. I'm sharing my pet project over at MediaWiki Forums. It's called OMG: Wiki. I'm looking for critques so feel free to share them http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11511
[21:36:42] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: No worries, you already took work out of my hands by doing the announcement in the first place
[21:36:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localization of img_auth.php - with enhancements - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19646  (10jack.pond)
[21:36:59] <RoanKattouw>	Reedy: I'm back now
[21:37:19] <Reedy>	RoanKattouw, googling mw.org sorted it :)
[21:38:21] <alxndr>	Hey folks. I'm moving a wiki, imported an XML dump using importDump.php, but it looks like uploaded file descriptions didn't make it (links like [[Image:Filename.jpg|thumb]] just show up as red links). Does dumpBackup.php skip the text associated with uploaded files?
[21:41:51] <Silly2>	Hello, I would like to install a language pack that dosent exist in the installation package of MediaWiki 1.11, do I just copy the files from 1.14? And which ones?
[21:43:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Self-link feature should use only CSS, not HTML strong tag, for greater flexibility - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19213  (10jidanni)
[21:43:20] <Silly2>	alxndr, are all your images uploaded in the same wiki installation or are you using commons?
[21:43:35] <alxndr>	same wiki
[21:43:50] <alxndr>	well, wikis
[21:44:46] <Silly2>	Did you ftp the images into the new folder using same directory structure, or a simple upload as it was on your old wiki?
[21:45:31] <Silly2>	Also are you moving your wiki to a different server?
[21:46:17] <Silly2>	Do this test, take out the |thumb and see if the image appears
[21:47:11] <Silly2>	If it does your problem might be in the Vhost Conf configuration
[21:49:46] <Silly2>	each Vhost Conf file needs to be in the root of each subdomain and with the correct path to use thunmnails
[21:50:49] <ialex>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Klevar97 ouch
[21:51:23] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Search to handle "_" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19647 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Search; (cenarium.sysop)
[21:51:45] <Silly2>	I have something else in my notes that probably wont help you but might, you might need to change "open_basedir restriction" to show thumbs 
[22:01:08] <rook2pawn>	my extension is outputting & and that is being translated into &amp; .. how do i prevent this thing
[22:01:34] <alxndr>	Silly2: I'm moving the wiki to a different server, moved the existing images/ directory as well.
[22:01:56] <alxndr>	sorry about the delay, doing too many things at once...
[22:02:18] <alxndr>	it does not show up without the |thumb
[22:02:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Categorymembers namespace filter broken in miser mode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19640  (10b-jorsch)
[22:10:16] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53082 10/trunk/phase3/skins/common/shared.css: Fix up r52413: readd missing line per CR comment
[22:24:38] <CIA-58>	03dale * r53083 10/branches/new-upload/phase3/ (5 files in 4 dirs): fixed some regressions around http url copy uploads javascript interface that came up with the new firefogg js integration
[22:31:54] <CIA-58>	03dale * r53084 10/branches/new-upload/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialUpload.php: old reference to getFilenamePrefixBlacklist (moved to UploadBase::getFilenamePrefixBlacklist)
[22:51:06] <alxndr>	Anyone have ideas on why links to images would be red after dumping and importing XML and copying the images directory to a fresh wiki?
[22:52:16] <Simetrical>	Need to rebuild imagelinks?
[22:53:13] <alxndr>	How do I do that? I've tried the rebuildImages script in maintenance, but it gives me 0 of 0 rows updated
[22:55:19] <Simetrical>	Maybe rebuildLinks.php or something, if that exists.
[22:56:59] <alxndr>	no rebuildLinks, but I tried rebuildall with no success
[23:01:35] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53085 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/ (OptIn.js OptIn.php SpecialOptIn.php): OptIn: Fix animation for other reason textbox
[23:09:14] <picillo>	I thought it was an Apache issue, but the more I look into it appears to be a something /part
[23:15:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Merge new-upload branch (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18563  (10dale)
[23:17:06] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53086 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.hooks.php: OptIn: Don't show the personal tools link on the OptIn special page itself
[23:22:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) interface language variety should not be reflected in links tables - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19638  (10herd)
[23:29:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Some within-wiki links displayed as external links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19249  +comment (10herd)
[23:29:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Don't mark external links to the current wiki as external - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11477  +comment (10herd)
[23:36:57] <Doink9731>	What's the best way to deal with vandals using proxies? 
[23:37:09] <Doink9731>	Just ban them as they pop up?
[23:37:34] <ekimmargni>	Yes, block the IPs.
[23:37:42] <ekimmargni>	Depending on what they're doing, you can take other actions too
[23:37:51] <ekimmargni>	(oh, also you can use TorBlock extension)
[23:37:54] <ekimmargni>	!e TorBlock
[23:37:54] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TorBlock
[23:38:08] <ekimmargni>	ie if they're spamming, then use spam blacklist
[23:38:20] <Doink9731>	Cool thanks
[23:38:33] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist helps too sometimes
[23:41:03] <MrZ-man>	28 previously passing test(s) now FAILING! :(
[23:44:18] <wikibugs>	03(mod) externallinks have links to self (not that external) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19637  +comment (10mike.lifeguard)
[23:46:26] <CIA-58>	03mrzman * r53087 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQueryCategoryMembers.php: 
[23:46:26] <CIA-58>	Followup to r53052 - Die if someone tries to use the namespace filter, rather than silently igoring it.
[23:46:26] <CIA-58>	Add a note if its disabled in the param description
[23:47:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) externallinks have links to self (not that external) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19637  (10herd)
[23:47:42] <MrZ-man>	werdna: ping
[23:47:43] <werdna>	MrZ-man: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[23:47:55] <Splarka>	heh
[23:47:58] <MrZ-man>	:O
[23:48:02] *werdna 	points to the message.
[23:48:04] *MrZ-man 	needs someone to sync r53087
[23:52:42] <werdna>	MrZ-man: why?
[23:53:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) externallinks have links to self (not that external) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19637  (10mike.lifeguard)
[23:53:28] <werdna>	I'm not going to do anything other than fix the site if it is down, it's 1am :)
[23:53:57] <MrZ-man>	domas's last change made it so that the cmnamespace parameter would be silently ignored, so anyone using it would suddenly start getting incorrect data from what they expect
[23:56:29] <MrZ-man>	I don't know if anyone is using it, but I figured failsafe would be better than silent ignore
[23:57:09] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=categorymembers&cmnamespace=1&cmtitle=Category:Physics
[23:57:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) XSLT parameter to API queries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19528  (10gtisza)
[23:57:28] *Splarka 	grepped his .js folder just in case, didn't see any cmnamespace