[00:00:30] *Simetrical 	deletes binlogs
[00:03:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10dbwiki)
[00:06:43] <Simetrical>	brion, is it a good idea to point people to security@wikimedia.org for reporting security issues?  Because the last time I did that, it didn't get fixed for days, until I remembered again and PMd Tim.
[00:06:53] <Simetrical>	I.e., the e-mail seemed to be totally ignored.
[00:06:58] <Simetrical>	Does anyone get that except you?
[00:08:03] <ncrollo_>	is it possible to remove the 0-9, a-z sorting in categories?
[00:08:39] <Simetrical>	ncrollo_, sure, probably a one-line change to includes/CategoryPage.php.
[00:09:04] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Add a {{NUMBEROFCATEGORIES}} magic word - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3988  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[00:09:06] <ncrollo_>	ok so its nothing like __NOTOC__
[00:09:07] <Simetrical>	Of course you'd have to pick some other order, and there aren't many other options.
[00:09:12] <Simetrical>	What order do you want?
[00:09:33] <ncrollo_>	just a list, no seperation
[00:09:54] <ncrollo_>	like __NOTOC__ would do
[00:10:11] <ncrollo_>	basically its a dynamic list
[00:10:36] <Simetrical>	Oh, you want to remove the separators, not the ordering?
[00:10:46] <Simetrical>	That would still be a few lines in CategoryPage.php.
[00:11:27] <brion>	Simetrical: i believe we updated the alias today :)
[00:11:29] <brion>	so it now hits tim
[00:11:32] <ncrollo_>	yeha I just have so few pages in the categories that the seperators makes it look dumb
[00:11:37] <Simetrical>	Well, that's better.
[00:13:48] *p858snake|sleep 	wonders how the file renaming feature is going?
[00:13:54] <^demon>	brion: Can you poke r52762 now?
[00:14:07] <ncrollo_>	so It looks like i can change $cutoff to like 10 or so
[00:15:43] <ncrollo_>	ok, that solves the 3 column thing but it still chunks it by letter
[00:16:24] <Simetrical>	brion, should people other than you and Tim be setting things ok on CodeReview?  Bryan set r49833 to ok after you set it fixme . . .
[00:18:51] <Emufarmers>	Does the live branch mean third-party sites can now sync up with Wikimedia without worrying about not having backported security fixes?
[00:19:07] <Simetrical>	Presumably.
[00:19:14] <Emufarmers>	Cool beans
[00:19:47] <Emufarmers>	There was a list thread about it a few weeks ago; I think that was the reason people wanted it then
[00:20:16] <Simetrical>	It's also useful for sysadmins to have some idea WTF is actually running on the site.  :P
[00:20:32] <Emufarmers>	Perhaps :D
[00:21:13] <brion>	Emufarmers: they could :)
[00:22:22] <Emufarmers>	But it means you can have a (reasonably) safe alternative to trunk for people who want to be cutting edge or who never want to be bothered with updating.  Of course, when extensions stop working with no warning I'll probably regret it, but oh well. :)
[00:22:29] <Simetrical>	Some of the changes seem to be Wikimedia-specific.
[00:23:07] <Emufarmers>	Anything that will make a non-WM setup not work?
[00:23:23] <Simetrical>	+                       // Temp performance hack
[00:23:23] <Simetrical>	+                       return true;
[00:23:30] <brion>	hehe
[00:23:41] <brion>	that sounds like a domas edit ;)
[00:24:02] <Simetrical>	+               ## Live-hack to support LB --Andrew 2009-05-26
[00:24:02] <Simetrical>	+               return wfGetDB( DB_SLAVE );
[00:24:11] <Simetrical>	+ini_set('memory_limit', '150M' );
[00:24:12] <Simetrical>	+
[00:24:17] <Simetrical>	+ini_set( 'memory_limit', 150*1024*1024 );
[00:24:26] <Simetrical>	This doesn't look usable for third parties, no.
[00:24:32] <brion>	i'm just copying what we've got, no judgement ;)
[00:24:53] <Simetrical>	/ Live-hack to let api.php work with secure.wikimedia.org
[00:24:53] <Simetrical>	+// Andrew 2009-06-17
[00:24:53] <Simetrical>	+if ($secure) {
[00:24:53] <Simetrical>	+       $url = "/$site/$lang$url";
[00:24:53] <Simetrical>	+}
[00:25:08] <Simetrical>	So, Emufarmers: no.  :P
[00:25:08] <OverlordQ>	we dont need a play by play :P
[00:25:17] <Emufarmers>	:v
[00:25:48] <Emufarmers>	http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/05/backup-authentication-info-easy-to-guess-hard-to-remember.ars Hurr.
[00:26:30] <hapablap>	hello
[00:26:46] <Emufarmers>	Who came up with the idea of security questions?  I don't see how they would ever have made sense in the first place unless email wasn't invented at the time. :\
[00:27:22] <GreenReaper>	Banks.
[00:27:27] <GreenReaper>	I would guess
[00:27:45] <Emufarmers>	Nah, banks make you visit a branch
[00:27:50] <OverlordQ>	I think I always ignore what the actual question is
[00:27:55] <OverlordQ>	and use it as a second password field
[00:27:55] <GreenReaper>	Back when the only way to get a bank account was if your mother had one.
[00:27:59] <hapablap>	does a patch from 1.14.1 to 1.15.0 exist?
[00:28:01] <Emufarmers>	I always put AJSDakljeWALJEajklW$L@J32#@AU#AJDALWDKAJLKD for the answer
[00:28:31] *Emufarmers 	changes his answers
[00:28:32] <hapablap>	Emufarmers: I do that too, but wait you have to call Xbox Live support, they ask you to answer the question :)
[00:30:50] <Emufarmers>	hapablap: there's a 1.14.0->1.15rc patch and a 1.15rc->1.15.0 patch and a 1.15.0-> 1.15.1 patch, but it's going to be less painful to just do it the regular way
[00:31:30] <hapablap>	the thing is that the code has several modifications, and it's in 1.14.1 right now...
[00:32:16] <Emufarmers>	Well, you could diff your version to plain 1.14.1, upgrade, and then apply the diff as a patch, I guess?
[00:32:40] <hapablap>	hm.. I am browsing the 1.14.0->1.15.0rc1 patch right now, and it seems like I will have to patch manually only 5-10 files, so I guess this will do
[00:33:14] <Emufarmers>	It was pretty sad when I forgot my bank PIN (the one used for actual withdrawls at the ATM): there was no way to reset it online, so I had to go in to a branch.
[00:34:03] <^demon>	Emufarmers: Most banks wont reset pins online. You can do it through most phone systems though.
[00:34:38] <thedj>	last week, the bank sent disabled my card. now THAT is annoying.
[00:34:57] <thedj>	they had sent me a new card 3 months ago, but it never arrived.
[00:35:11] <Emufarmers>	^demon: dunno if I could have, but phone would have been no better; I forgot my PIN and I had no money to buy a bus ticket; by the time I could have called during business hours, I had already gotten a ride home. :p
[00:35:14] <thedj>	but they did block the old one. :(
[00:35:56] <thedj>	so i was without a card for a week, and they had to issue me a new PIN as well. /me was not amused.
[00:36:01] <^demon>	Emufarmers: I know with Wachovia you can call and login with your acct # and then can reset your pin. BoA too, iirc.
[00:36:24] <Emufarmers>	Anyway, I don't really see any reason for not allowing you to change it online; you can already do all sorts of shit online.  Transfers and such.  Though I guess those are more tracable
[00:36:48] <thedj>	you guys don't have skimmers in america ?
[00:36:50] <Emufarmers>	I have BoA; they let you reset with just the account number?  Doesn't that defeat the point?
[00:37:18] <thedj>	yeah was just gonna say. security wise that would be a big no no in europe atm.
[00:37:33] <Emufarmers>	Also, they (Bank of America) make you answer a security question-type thing if you log in from a machine that you haven't logged in from before.  Speaking of abuses of security questions!
[00:38:06] <thedj>	card intercepts, skimmin devices everwhere, PIN extortion. it's all happening.
[00:38:15] <Emufarmers>	thedj: like, devices planted on ATMs, or?
[00:38:20] <thedj>	Emufarmers: yup
[00:38:28] <thedj>	with camera's and card readers.
[00:38:31] <Emufarmers>	I think there's been some of that in the US
[00:38:46] <thedj>	the dupe your card and steal the PIN from the cam images.
[00:39:46] <Simetrical>	This is why private keys were invented.
[00:40:14] <thedj>	or they steal your indentity papers, and request new bank cards + PIN which they intercept.
[00:40:16] <Simetrical>	Have a USB device that stores your private key and is unreadable.  It will only encrypt/decrypt things for you.  And requires a passphrase/biometrics/whatever to use.
[00:40:24] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Grant right "abusefilter-log-details" to autoconfirmed users @ zhwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19212  (10cn.chenminqi)
[00:40:49] <Simetrical>	And which becomes inactive if it doesn't receive a signal from some central secure place in X hours.
[00:41:00] <thedj>	Simetrical: if they use a camera to record your passphrase, it's not much help.
[00:41:20] <thedj>	you can steal a lot of money in 3 hours.
[00:41:31] <thedj>	with the right knowledge.
[00:41:55] <thedj>	the bank will repay you, but they are loosing millions on shit like that.
[00:41:55] <Simetrical>	Rely on revocation.  Have it require an Internet connection every time it connects.  Make it not work unless it gets a signed certificate of non-revocation dated to within the last few minutes.
[00:42:16] <Emufarmers>	Anyway, it's funny that Bank of America talks so much about security; the only  thing close to security they have involves making it difficult to do anything.
[00:42:17] <Simetrical>	So it stops as soon as you revoke it.
[00:42:25] <Simetrical>	Yes, banks are terrible at security.
[00:42:28] <Simetrical>	Everyone is, frankly.
[00:42:44] <thedj>	yeah but it only takes seconds to steal a lot of money from an ATM.
[00:43:00] <Simetrical>	Sure, but there's no helping that.  You can greatly mitigate the problem.
[00:43:09] <Emufarmers>	But banks are unique in the pains they take to make it look like they're doing something: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9776757-7.html
[00:43:22] <thedj>	anyways. gtg. nite folks.
[00:43:23] <Simetrical>	Make it possible to invalidate from your cell phone.  As soon as you realize it's missing, invalidate it.
[00:43:38] <Simetrical>	Emufarmers, yeah, they're much more unreasonably insecure than most places, that's true.
[00:44:01] <Simetrical>	Pointless security questions like "What's your mother's maiden name?"  Guess what, that's the primary name on the account in my case, Sherlock.
[00:44:19] <Simetrical>	And "where did you go to high school" would be so hard to figure out.
[00:44:23] *Simetrical 	tries Googling it
[00:44:25] <Emufarmers>	They're also the largest/richest/ones with the most potential loss from fraud (well, maybe not, but still)
[00:44:46] <charitwo>	Simetrical: some sites let you make your own security question, google is one
[00:44:57] <Simetrical>	Security questions are the devil anyway.
[00:45:02] <Simetrical>	Let me reset my password by e-mail.
[00:45:02] <Emufarmers>	^
[00:45:17] <Simetrical>	Security questions are how Sarah Palin's e-mail got compromised.
[00:45:23] <Emufarmers>	^^
[00:45:45] <Emufarmers>	Probably how the majority of accounts get compromised
[00:45:50] <Emufarmers>	well, maybe behind social engineering
[00:47:17] <Emufarmers>	By the way, Simetrical, I meant to say the other day: you're the most patient and calm guy I know.  Most people wouldn't have handled the Fedora package thing, the db-filesystem guy, and the unicode 
[00:47:26] <Emufarmers>	!= plaintext guy so cooly. :p
[00:47:26] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "=". You might try: !domdocument !dpl !errors !exclamation !file !fileurl !googleit !help !imagelink !info !mw !mwbot !numberedparams !passwordsql !purge !suggest !tidyforidiots !upload !uploads !viewvc 
[00:47:32] <Emufarmers>	>_>
[00:47:46] <charitwo>	!rar
[00:47:46] --mwbot--	rar
[00:47:55] <Simetrical>	Emufarmers, I blame a good upbringing.  Being a forum moderator for a few years helps.
[00:48:00] <Simetrical>	Also, being an emotionless robot.
[00:48:09] *charitwo 	offers Simetrical a hug
[00:48:39] *Splarka 	offers simetrical some WD40
[00:48:41] <Emufarmers>	Curious: were you patient as a child?
[00:49:14] <Simetrical>	Hmm.  I'm not sure.
[00:50:22] <Simetrical>	Jewish דן לכף זכות ("judge others favorably") plus Wikipedia's AGF plus having to enforce civility on a forum for a few years all contributed, I think.
[00:50:27] <Emufarmers>	I'm curious because I was always a very impatient and irritable child (though a very tranquil baby, apparently!), but now I'm generally calm and collected.
[00:50:42] <Simetrical>	I've never been very emotional, I think.
[00:51:01] <Emufarmers>	I blame social isolation and growing up for my own development. :D
[00:51:45] <Emufarmers>	Simetrical: can you transliterate that for the sake of any of us who forgot our Hebrew after our bar mitvas?
[00:52:27] <Simetrical>	"dan lechaf zechus"
[00:55:28] <Emufarmers>	Hmm, somehow that never made it into my weekly 2 hours of Hebrew school. :(
[00:55:31] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53209 10/trunk/phase3/includes/db/DatabaseSqlite.php: 
[00:55:31] <CIA-58>	Use parentheses for reliability
[00:55:31] <CIA-58>	Follow-up to r53196.
[01:04:14] <MLEFEVRE_>	Is there any way to tell what the 1000 most popular entries are in a mediawiki system? Is there a hit count kept?
[01:05:54] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDisableCounters
[01:06:43] <Splarka>	(note that any cache preventing an apache hit for every page view will render counters highly inaccurate and they'll have to be disabled, as is the case for any big mediawiki farms)
[01:08:53] <MLEFEVRE>	cool. thanks for the info... Is this turned on in Wikipedia? anyone had download the database and looked?
[01:09:18] <Simetrical>	It's worthless on Wikipedia.
[01:09:27] <Simetrical>	95% of page view don't get to MediaWiki.
[01:09:30] <Simetrical>	views
[01:09:43] <Simetrical>	Wikipedia has different access stats, from Squid.
[01:12:26] <MLEFEVRE>	gotcha.... any of that info available do you think? where to ask? thanks for being so helpful.
[01:18:29] <Splarka>	some of it is aggregated at http://stats.grok.se/
[01:18:44] <Splarka>	raw is at http://dammit.lt/wikistats
[01:26:14] <MLEFEVRE>	thanks. exactly what I needed. Now I just need full 8 hrs sleep. Long day at work. Have a good one everybody.
[01:29:58] <GreenReaper>	Kinda surprised that's not bz2
[01:51:13] <ncrollo_>	for numerical listings can I change the format to list it similar to the TOC?
[01:53:12] <Splarka>	similar in what way?
[01:53:55] <ncrollo_>	1.4.3 instead of #3 under #4 under #1
[01:54:42] <Splarka>	ahh, probably only manually
[01:55:07] <ncrollo_>	manually as in editing a conf file or manually as in manually formatiing it
[01:55:07] <Splarka>	embedding <ol><li>...
[01:55:29] <ncrollo_>	because it would sem easy to edit the conf file
[01:55:44] <ncrollo_>	its just which php file holds that formatting
[01:56:01] <ncrollo_>	of the lis
[02:10:13] *Splarka 	sees the wmf deployment branch thing
[02:11:07] <Splarka>	was there a help page on mw.org about running WMF? scapping to the revision in Special:Version and applying live hacks from http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_admin_log ?
[02:11:21] <Splarka>	ahh
[02:11:21] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_sync_script
[02:12:34] <Splarka>	werdna: can you update that per http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/wmf-deployment/ ? (or someone else who knows how)
[02:13:20] <briMestone>	hey guys.. i need help with Authenticating SMTP server
[02:14:29] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: read the chat above; seems running the WMF branch isn't a good idea for third parties right now
[02:16:30] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: sure, but it should be mentioned at least
[02:19:01] <briMestone>	guys help...
[02:19:08] <Emufarmers>	!smtp
[02:19:08] --mwbot--	See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSMTP> for information about configuring MediaWiki to use SMTP for sending mails, instead of using the sendmail interface.
[02:19:27] <briMestone>	thats what im reading and following.. but i get error
[02:19:36] <briMestone>	Failed opening required 'Mail.php'
[02:19:36] <Emufarmers>	briMetstone: okay, what's the error?
[02:20:18] <briMestone>	Fatal error: UserMailer::require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required 'Mail.php' (include_path='.:/Library/WebServer/Documents/wiki:/Library/WebServer/Documents/wiki/includes:/Library/WebServer/Documents/wiki/languages:/usr/share/php') in /Library/WebServer/Documents/wiki/includes/UserMailer.php on line 119
[02:20:59] <briMestone>	looks like my include path is wrong
[02:27:40] <briMestone>	where can i get the "mail.php"?
[02:28:00] <Emufarmers>	I believe you need the Mail package from PEAR
[02:29:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add an explicit action=view_source to present a page's markup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19681  summary; +comment (10info)
[02:29:26] <p858snake>	have you got the pear mail package <http://pear.php.net/package/Mail> installed, like it mentiones you need on that manual page?
[02:29:36] <briMestone>	already "sudo pear install mail"
[02:37:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add an explicit action=view_source to present a page's markup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19681  (10herd)
[02:39:07] <briMestone>	Yikes! this SMTP setting is driving me NUTS
[02:41:03] <briMestone>	Badly need help with SMTP Auth
[02:44:17] <GreenReaper>	Use the tools on your system to find the mail.php that was presumably installed as part of PEAR, and then either copy it into the appropriate directory or change the include path?
[02:44:24] <GreenReaper>	*installed by PEAR
[02:44:34] <briMestone>	ohhh
[02:44:57] *GreenReaper 	is just guessing here.
[02:46:31] <briMestone>	pear/Mail is already installed and is the same as the released version 1.1.14
[02:46:35] <briMestone>	but i cant locate it 
[02:48:22] <GreenReaper>	If locate doesn't work, try grabbing it manually from http://download.pear.php.net/package/Mail-1.1.14.tgz ?
[02:48:37] <GreenReaper>	It may require other files though, again haven't used it myself. :-)
[02:48:58] <briMestone>	ok.. 
[02:49:01] <GreenReaper>	Other packages you might need are at http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/rhel-install-php-net-smtp-email-socket.html
[02:50:50] <briMestone>	yup now its looking for "Pear.php"
[02:51:05] <briMestone>	which i bliv is installed, how to i modify the include path?
[02:52:26] <GreenReaper>	http://www.modwest.com/help/kb5-98.html
[02:52:50] *GreenReaper 	notes that "set php include path" would have been a good search term there. :-)
[02:54:18] <briMestone>	ok.. i got it to work by manually copying *.php files
[03:03:01] <briMestone>	Mailer returned: Unable to find class for driver smtp 
[03:03:07] <briMestone>	it just doesnt want to work 
[03:05:23] <GreenReaper>	Well, that's the thing, you really need it properly setup to use the PEAR classes as installed.
[03:05:56] <GreenReaper>	Otherwise you'll have to copy in the SMTP stuff from another package, and probably the Net package, and . . .
[03:06:14] <band101>	sys upgrade question: can I upgrade a 1.11.1 version directly to 1.15.1?
[03:07:25] <GreenReaper>	That should be possible, but note that some extensions were migrated into core in 1.14 (presuming you have extensions). You will need to run the update.php script in the maintenance folder. A backup is recommended beforehand.
[03:08:27] <band101>	thx. no problem w/ backup and not many extensions on this version.
[03:08:59] <GreenReaper>	Consult the included file RELEASE-NOTES for further details on the extensions that were merged.
[03:09:56] <band101>	thanks for the quick reply. now to get some sleep before I try this.
[03:10:02] <GreenReaper>	Good plan.
[03:10:33] <briMestone>	yikes, is there other way to have the email feature on? i mean with out having a spammy tags
[03:11:32] <GreenReaper>	"a spammy tags"?
[03:12:55] <briMestone>	well, using the default none smtp authenticated. mail, all of the admin emails goes to spam automatically
[03:13:02] <briMestone>	**from MediaWiki
[03:14:22] <GreenReaper>	That would depend on your mailbox provider. Perhaps your domain needs some kind of authentication or reliabiliy marker, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework
[03:14:55] <briMestone>	hmmm
[03:21:27] <flyingparchment>	isn't SPF dead yet?
[03:21:52] <GreenReaper>	This is the Internet - nothing ever dies, it just gets declared obsolete.
[03:26:31] <apergos>	and then people are doomed to support it forever due to "backwards compatibility" 
[03:37:19] <Splarka>	hey, I can't seem to get MediaWiki to run under Windows 3.11, something about "win32s caused a general protection fault in module stfn00b.dll at AF3F331A:0000FF01"
[03:37:47] <Splarka>	where is the 16 bit download please?
[03:43:28] <GreenReaper>	I'm sorry, we only support UTF-8
[03:44:08] <Splarka>	8 bit? is there a way to emulate it on a NES?
[03:44:12] <OverlordQ>	yes
[03:44:19] <OverlordQ>	wire two of them together
[03:44:38] <OverlordQ>	use one for big end, one for low end bits
[03:44:55] <Splarka>	heh
[04:29:40] <AnnonyMouse2>	hi guys. I've just set up a mediawiki in a jaunty vm to show off here @ the office. could you pls suggest a wysiwyg editor: i'm considering either mozile or meaneditor
[04:30:03] <AnnonyMouse2>	unless you have another better suggestion
[04:35:01] <GreenReaper>	AnnonyMouse2: FCKeditor?
[04:35:11] <GreenReaper>	It uses native syntax
[04:35:26] <GreenReaper>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FCKeditor_%28Official%29
[04:35:52] <AnnonyMouse2>	ok. thnx. I'll take a look @ that. would you recommend it to ppl that have not used wiki's at all, other than maynbe a touch of wikipedia?
[04:36:18] <flyingparchment>	"official"?
[04:36:18] <GreenReaper>	Yes, in that it's probably better for them to use than trying to figure out the markup.
[04:36:22] <GreenReaper>	Yes, official.
[04:36:24] <AnnonyMouse2>	hmm. looks pretty cool. thnx. not too heavy....
[04:36:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) draft_edittime is same for all the drafts fof an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19701 minor; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh)
[04:36:33] <flyingparchment>	in what way is it official?
[04:36:45] <GreenReaper>	Because it's made by the FCKeditor team.
[04:37:46] <GreenReaper>	compare to http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FCKeditor_%28by_Mafs%29
[04:38:25] <GreenReaper>	Though honestly it might be best to just retire that page.
[04:41:40] <AnnonyMouse2>	looks like FCKEditor is more an HTML editor than a wiki-ML editor
[04:41:50] <AnnonyMouse2>	is that assesment correct?
[04:44:38] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Save Draft button is not enabled when edit tool bar is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19702 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh)
[04:55:32] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53210 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (Vector.php vector/main-ltr.css vector/main-rtl.css): Refactor of Vector skin output and RTL strategy. Needs more testing, but it seems to be working very well so far.
[04:56:19] <GreenReaper>	AnnonyMouse2: It is but they made a special wikitext version.
[04:56:33] <GreenReaper>	so it became a wiki-ml editor.
[04:56:54] <AnnonyMouse2>	thanks guys. i thin ki've got it. editor seems pretty simepl & straight-forward & sdt'd-compliant
[04:57:40] <AnnonyMouse2>	installed from apt-get repository & now I'm adding the php reference to the config
[05:38:35] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Provide wiki text FCKeditor as an extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10731  +comment (10greenreaper)
[05:43:22] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: that guy clearly had broken server, the correct fix is not to enable entities but to fix the server
[05:47:12] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) User ishall be acknowledged when a draft is auto saved - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19703 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh)
[05:48:09] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Fatal error prevents small number of people from voting - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18970  +comment (10tstarling)
[05:54:24] <wikibugs>	06(LATER) Option to temporarily enter decryption key online - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18978  +comment (10tstarling)
[05:54:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add a music wikimodule - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189  (10joergens.mic)
[06:13:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to temporarily enter decryption key online - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18978  (10rohde)
[06:16:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Fatal error prevents small number of people from voting - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18970  (10rohde)
[06:23:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Install ParserFunctions at the SPI vote server - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18993  (10rohde)
[06:46:34] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Can not search on the left side bar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19670  (10-d___b-)
[06:52:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Option to temporarily enter decryption key online - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18978  (10tstarling)
[07:26:04] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53211 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (Vector.php vector/main-ltr.css vector/main-rtl.css): More IE fixes for RTL, getting quite close now.
[07:35:44] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53212 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ (4 files in 2 dirs): follow-up r53093: split readerfeedback in translatewiki too
[07:42:10] <kihis>	ummh. is there any sample plugins for external authentication?
[07:42:28] <Duesentrieb>	sure
[07:42:30] <Duesentrieb>	!auth
[07:42:30] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin
[07:42:41] <Duesentrieb>	the category should be linked there
[07:42:48] <kihis>	i didnt get any of those working well
[07:43:09] <Duesentrieb>	did you tra a very simple one?
[07:43:16] <kihis>	yea i did
[07:43:19] <Duesentrieb>	anyway, what do you mean by "well"?
[07:43:50] <Duesentrieb>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:HttpAuth should be a good example.
[07:43:54] <Duesentrieb>	didn't look at the code though
[07:43:56] <kihis>	umm lets ssee
[07:44:20] <Duesentrieb>	note that sharing a userbase doesn't automatically provide single signon. only some of these extensions also cover that.
[07:45:46] <kihis>	i'll try that
[07:46:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Difficulties reaching IPv6-enabled sites (bugzilla, lists) in Opera, Chrome on some systems - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17140  (10marcin.cieslak)
[07:47:11] <kihis>	actually i need single signon authentication with no possibility to logout
[07:48:14] <Duesentrieb>	http auth provides that, in a very crude and basic manner
[07:48:29] <kihis>	yeah
[07:48:30] <Duesentrieb>	(by remembering and re-sending the user name and password with every request)
[07:49:32] <Duesentrieb>	kihis: did you look at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:AutoAuthenticate_extensions ?
[07:49:48] <Duesentrieb>	i wonder why there isn't a generic cookie based sso extension.
[07:49:51] <Duesentrieb>	should be simple enough
[07:49:56] <kihis>	i wonder too...
[07:50:00] <Duesentrieb>	specify what value in the session to look for. done.
[07:50:18] <kihis>	but actually that http auth works almost fine!
[07:50:25] <Duesentrieb>	actually, one using cookies directly, and one using the php session...
[07:50:27] <Duesentrieb>	good then :)
[07:51:00] <kihis>	 but but
[07:51:09] <kihis>	need some way to disable user logout
[07:51:46] <kihis>	or just that logout-button from upper right corner :P
[07:52:39] *Splarka 	kicks it while it's down...
[07:52:46] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) improve/fix CentralNotice style loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 trivial; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: CentralNotice; (herd)
[07:54:58] <Duesentrieb>	kihis: you can't log out from http-auth, short of closing the browser.
[07:55:05] <Duesentrieb>	well, ther emay exist plugins or some such#
[07:55:19] <Duesentrieb>	but generally, the browser remembers the login until it's closed.
[07:56:08] <Duesentrieb>	kihis: anyway - you can't technically prevent logout. people can always delete cookies, etc. you can remove the logout button, sure...
[07:58:47] <kihis>	duesentrieb: oh you know. and im not using http auth :)
[08:00:03] <kihis>	duesentrieb: modded just a bit that script and now it works :)
[08:00:05] <kihis>	woo-hoo
[08:00:56] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53213 10/trunk/extensions/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
[08:00:56] <CIA-58>	* Fix i18n messages
[08:00:56] <CIA-58>	* Add extension to translatewiki.net
[08:15:11] <kihis>	umm
[08:18:22] <kihis>	duesentrieb: do you have any clue to automaticly add user to admins-group?
[08:20:37] <Duesentrieb>	no, never tried that. i expect you can ju8st add groups to the user object, but it's just a guess
[08:21:10] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53214 10/trunk/extensions/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
[08:21:10] <CIA-58>	* Fix i18n messages
[08:21:10] <CIA-58>	* Add extension to translatewiki.net
[08:21:35] *OverlordQ 	's always wondered what the i18n stood for
[08:22:30] <Duesentrieb>	i(nternationalizatio)n
[08:22:32] <Tim-away>	internationali(s|z)ation
[08:22:37] <Duesentrieb>	there are 18 letters left out :)
[08:22:40] <OverlordQ>	tricky
[08:22:49] <Splarka>	l10n
[08:22:50] <Duesentrieb>	you can guesws l10n now :)
[08:23:09] *OverlordQ 	can't think of anything fully so I'll just say localization
[08:23:11] <OverlordQ>	*funny
[08:24:45] <kihis>	ah done :)
[08:24:51] <kihis>	wasnt any hard
[08:27:17] <Splarka>	OverlordQ, any of these funny?: intimidation, intervention, intersection, intermission, interjection, installation, interdiction, insemination, innovation, inflammation, infiltration, incineration, inauguration
[08:28:13] <Splarka>	er, ^innovitation
[08:32:05] <Annemarie>	l, not i...
[08:32:24] <Splarka>	but that isn't funny
[08:33:00] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53215 10/trunk/extensions/IndexFunction/ (IndexFunction.alias.php IndexFunction.php): 
[08:33:00] <CIA-58>	* Add special page group
[08:33:00] <CIA-58>	* Add special page alias file
[08:38:40] <svqyqb>	http://tinyurl.com/nkypfa
[08:40:55] <Splarka>	that tinyurl was spam (FYI)... looking at the source: <META NAME="keywords" content="gewinnspiel,kostenlos gewinnen, iphone gewinnen, iphone kostenlos, ipod gewinnen, ....
[08:41:46] <Splarka>	js: a top frame, google ads, google analytics
[08:44:34] <silentNinja>	ehllo
[08:45:11] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53216 10/trunk/phase3/includes/QueryPage.php: Revert r53147 properly; was supposed to be reverted in r53167, but I wasn't fully awake at the time.
[08:47:24] <silentNinja>	is it possible to use wiki tags to list all pages?'
[08:47:39] <RoanKattouw>	Try {{Special:Allpages}}
[08:47:42] <silentNinja>	i.e. create a custom page that works like Special:AllPages
[08:47:48] <silentNinja>	ah, ok {{ }} = include?
[08:47:55] <silentNinja>	ty
[08:47:55] <RoanKattouw>	Yese
[08:48:06] <RoanKattouw>	Not sure if it'll work though
[08:48:11] <RoanKattouw>	Allpages might not be includable, no idea
[08:48:25] <silentNinja>	it is
[08:48:30] <silentNinja>	ty
[08:48:34] <silentNinja>	works 100%
[08:49:34] <silentNinja>	just browsed over http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing, didnt see any mention of {{}} syntax 
[08:52:55] <RoanKattouw>	It's in "Advanced functioning" -> "Templates"
[08:55:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Have a permalink type URL as a user preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18796  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[08:55:52] <diddy>	Does mediawiki work with postgresql?
[08:56:36] <str4nd>	diddy, Yes.
[08:57:09] <diddy>	How can I choose postgresql instead of mysql?
[08:57:25] <str4nd>	There should be a radio button when you install
[08:59:01] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) XSLT parameter to API queries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19528  (10roan.kattouw)
[09:01:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prop=info&inprop=watched - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19523  (10roan.kattouw)
[09:02:21] <str4nd>	diddy, "Database type: (o) PostgreSQL"
[09:02:22] <Duesentrieb>	diddy: note that ymmv with postgres. it's not as well tested as mysql.
[09:02:34] <str4nd>	ymmv?
[09:03:05] <RoanKattouw>	Your mileage may vary
[09:03:19] <str4nd>	ah
[09:03:22] <RoanKattouw>	Which means that what works for one person may or may not work for another
[09:03:40] <RoanKattouw>	Duesentrieb: Do you have a quick minute to run two queries on the toolserver for me?
[09:03:51] <Duesentrieb>	RoanKattouw: yes#
[09:04:12] <domas>	PG is bestest!!!!11
[09:04:21] <domas>	it has transactions!
[09:04:22] <str4nd>	"bestest" :D
[09:04:45] <str4nd>	And replication ROCKS!
[09:04:45] <str4nd>	not
[09:05:15] <RoanKattouw>	SELECT COUNT(*) FROM enwiki_p.user_properties WHERE up_property='skin' AND up_value='vector'; SELECT COUNT(*) FROM enwiki_p.user_properties WHERE up_property='usebetatoolbar'' AND up_value='1';
[09:05:37] <RoanKattouw>	Oops, double quote after usebetatoolbar, sorry
[09:05:39] <str4nd>	user_properties, uh
[09:06:04] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: what's that for?
[09:06:16] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: user_properties will *not* be public
[09:06:21] <RoanKattouw>	I know
[09:06:30] <Duesentrieb>	so it's not in enwiki_p :)
[09:06:34] <werdna>	I'll run it on the live site
[09:06:35] <RoanKattouw>	Dammit
[09:06:40] <RoanKattouw>	OK, thanks werdna 
[09:06:44] <Duesentrieb>	no, i'm root :)
[09:07:03] <RoanKattouw>	Probably better to not run this on the live site
[09:07:07] <RoanKattouw>	then
[09:07:08] <werdna>	count(*): 338
[09:07:16] <werdna>	why not?
[09:07:20] <werdna>	there's your answer.
[09:07:21] <Annemarie>	Which count is that?
[09:07:24] <RoanKattouw>	I didn't think it'd be that fast
[09:07:34] <str4nd>	Annemarie, how many has teh new toolbar enabled
[09:07:43] <RoanKattouw>	And as Annemarie correctly noted, I requested two counts
[09:07:46] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: I added the approprite indices to make this sort of thing fast
[09:07:51] <werdna>	ah, well I can do that too
[09:08:02] <Duesentrieb>	hm... interesting... ERROR 1146 (42S02): Table 'enwiki.user_properties' doesn't exist
[09:08:05] <Duesentrieb>	wtf?
[09:08:21] <RoanKattouw>	werdna: Don't see those in tables.sql?
[09:08:28] <Annemarie>	Duesentrieb: Any idea if there are plans to re-import enwiki?
[09:08:30] <str4nd>	Duesentrieb, enwiki_p?
[09:08:42] <RoanKattouw>	str4nd: AFAICT enwiki_p is a restricted view
[09:08:47] <Duesentrieb>	str4nd: no.
[09:08:50] <str4nd>	ah fail then
[09:09:00] <Duesentrieb>	Annemarie: yes. plans. ask river.
[09:09:13] <Duesentrieb>	ah, i was just on the wrong server :P
[09:09:14] <Annemarie>	I've asked River like five times. ;-) 
[09:09:24] <Duesentrieb>	wait for an answer,m then
[09:09:26] <Annemarie>	Still haven't gotten an answer...
[09:09:29] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: I'll paste the data in #wikimedia_usability
[09:11:15] <Duesentrieb>	RoanKattouw: the skin usage is 603
[09:11:39] <RoanKattouw>	werdna just ran the same query on the live site, it says 610
[09:11:53] <RoanKattouw>	And 338 for the toolbar
[09:11:58] <Duesentrieb>	either lag or corruption :)
[09:12:05] <Duesentrieb>	we do have problems with the enwiki copy
[09:12:09] <RoanKattouw>	Thanks to both of you, anyway
[09:12:11] <Duesentrieb>	hence Annemarie asking about re-import
[09:12:34] <Duesentrieb>	i have 336 for the toolbar
[09:12:49] <Duesentrieb>	Seconds_Behind_Master: 0
[09:12:52] <Duesentrieb>	not lag, then
[09:13:03] <RoanKattouw>	Weird
[09:13:09] <Duesentrieb>	no, broken :)
[09:13:24] <RoanKattouw>	Note that werdna also ran this stuff on a slave, might not be perfectly up-to-date either
[09:14:16] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: no i didn't :P
[09:14:25] <Annemarie>	The missing rows in page are more annoying.
[09:14:26] <RoanKattouw>	You ran it on the master? :O
[09:14:29] <Annemarie>	And revision. And user. ...
[09:14:33] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: chill out, it's one thread :D
[09:15:02] <RoanKattouw>	hehe
[09:15:19] <werdna>	You have to worry about masters and slaves if it's somewhere in the code, because the point is that it distributes threads across the higher-capacity slaves
[09:15:52] <werdna>	but if it's a single admin checking something, it's easier to do sql enwiki (which selects the master automatically) than it is to do mysql -Denwiki -hdb18 -uwikiadmin --password=`wikiadmin_pass`
[09:32:57] <Hydrant>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExtensionDistributor/SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi fails
[09:34:42] <Annemarie>	Database error
[09:34:42] <Annemarie>	A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
[09:34:42] <Annemarie>	    (SQL query hidden)
[09:34:42] <Annemarie>	from within function "User::invalidateCache". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; Try restarting transaction (10.0.6.28)".
[09:34:53] <Annemarie>	Tim-away: ^
[09:35:50] <diddy>	Is there any restriction of how many pages mediawiki can have?
[09:36:12] <diddy>	Is there any restriction of how many images/attachments a mediawiki wiki can have?
[09:36:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Have a permalink type URL as a user preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18796  (10Gerard.meijssen)
[09:36:55] <diddy>	Is there any restriction how large the attachments of mediawiki can be?
[09:37:02] <RoanKattouw>	Annemarie: Sounds like an intermittent error, try again
[09:37:21] <Annemarie>	RoanKattouw: Just loading the page seems to be very slow.
[09:37:45] <RoanKattouw>	diddy: MW doesn't have attachments. The limits on upload size are configurable, but keep in mind that PHP imposes some of its own limits
[09:37:52] <RoanKattouw>	The *number* of pages and images is unlimited
[09:38:13] <Annemarie>	I wouldn't call it unlimited.
[09:38:47] <RoanKattouw>	Not practically unlimited I guess
[09:38:50] <Annemarie>	A large page, revision, or user table can begin to cause problems.
[09:38:52] <RoanKattouw>	But there's no single hard limit
[09:38:55] <Annemarie>	Just ask Wikimedia. ;-)
[09:39:39] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, how about the number of attachments? Any limits?
[09:39:52] <RoanKattouw>	No
[09:39:57] <Annemarie>	MediaWiki still doesn't have attachments.
[09:40:14] <RoanKattouw>	diddy: If you mean uploaded files, no, no limits on that either
[09:40:29] <silentNinja>	as long as u have postgres support in php
[09:40:29] <RoanKattouw>	Although in practice the size of each is limited by PHP's upload limits
[09:40:30] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, yes I mean uploaded files.
[09:40:47] <silentNinja>	omw, i was scrolled up, sorry that was out of context
[09:41:36] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, if the numer of images is unlimted then how does mediawiki make sure that filenames don't collide with images?
[09:42:10] <RoanKattouw>	An image is just a special case of a file
[09:43:00] <RoanKattouw>	You can upload any kind of file, and if it happens to be recognized as an image, you'll automatically have access to image-specific stuff such as thumbnailing
[09:43:07] <Splarka>	are page/revision/user ids limited to 2^63 (signed long int)? or does that depend on the database type?
[09:43:48] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, yeah I mean any file. Are there any mechanisms to prevent uploading an identical file twice?
[09:44:10] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Depends on the DB I guess
[09:44:18] <Splarka>	identical name or identical contents?
[09:44:19] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, wikipedia.org is huge. What are good ways to reuse files?
[09:44:25] <Splarka>	both will (usually) give warnings
[09:44:30] <RoanKattouw>	diddy: Yes, you'll get a warning when trying to upload an identical copy
[09:44:36] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, identical files.
[09:44:40] <Splarka>	'reuse'?
[09:44:44] <Splarka>	be sure to recycle!
[09:44:57] <Annemarie>	user_id is "int(5) unsigned"
[09:45:02] <Annemarie>	Whatever that means.
[09:45:03] <Splarka>	"identical file" names or contents?
[09:45:45] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, you get that warning even when you are on a completely different wiki page? How will mediawiki know that his file had already been uploaded?
[09:46:02] <RoanKattouw>	diddy: Yes, it uses the SHA-1 hash of the contents of the file to detect dupes
[09:46:07] <Splarka>	if names, you can overwrite the current copy but you can revert to a previous "versions" of a file, which is stored indefinitely (and archived when "deleted")
[09:46:20] <diddy>	RoanKattouw, and the hash key is stored in the DB?
[09:46:26] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[09:46:45] <Splarka>	if contents, the SHA1 of files is generated on upload, and a search for duplicates can be performed (is it optional via config? might be done automatically)
[09:46:46] <Annemarie>	Huh. Unsigned is strange...
[09:47:16] <diddy>	I wonder if there is a way to have mediawiki store files in a dir structure that is already there.
[09:47:28] <Splarka>	Annemarie: /strange/ is when it is treated as signed in some places and unsigned in others
[09:47:44] <diddy>	I mean uploaded files.
[09:47:46] <Annemarie>	You're strange.
[09:48:11] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Done by default AFAIK
[09:48:21] <Splarka>	'shandy
[09:49:27] <Splarka>	Annemarie: ever seen a wik with 18 quintillion articles? I have ^_^
[09:49:35] <Splarka>	^wiki
[09:51:02] <Annemarie>	Quintillion_1, Quintillion_2?
[09:51:23] <Splarka>	Special:Statistics showing ~18446744073709551616
[09:51:40] <Splarka>	due to improper decrementing and improper signed/unsigned consistency
[09:52:06] <werdna>	log(18 446 744 073 709 551 616) / log(2) = 64
[09:52:16] <Splarka>	zacli
[09:52:25] <Hydrant>	How can I wiki something to be courier font, or some typeface like that?  I want to use it to reference source code variable names
[09:52:42] <Splarka>	the decrementer thought it was signed 64, the stats thought it was unsigned
[09:52:46] <Annemarie>	CSS?
[09:52:49] <Splarka>	<pre><code><tt>
[09:52:54] <Hydrant>	thx
[09:52:58] <Splarka>	<div style="font-family:monospace;">
[09:53:15] <Splarka>	<div class="foo">   ... .foo {font-family:monospace;}
[09:53:18] <Annemarie>	I thought he meant specifying font-family:Courier;
[09:53:29] <Splarka>	"or some typeface like that"
[09:53:38] <Splarka>	monospace is web-safe
[09:53:43] <Annemarie>	font-family:'Courier New';
[09:53:47] <Annemarie>	Yeah, yeah.
[09:53:48] <Splarka>	fail
[09:53:55] <Splarka>	font-family:'Courier New',monospace;
[09:54:00] <Splarka>	if you /insist/ ^_^
[09:54:14] <diddy>	Is it possible to make mediawiki a desktop wiki? What needs to be done so the mysql DB and Apache is not accessible from hosts other than 127.0.0.1?
[09:54:55] <Splarka>	always fall back to a web-safe, some browsers and systems will go alphabetical
[09:55:19] <Splarka>	and nobody wants to try to read a wiki in CowboysEatingPudding.TTF
[09:55:59] <Splarka>	Hydrant: http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_font_font-family.asp
[09:56:25] <silentNinja>	is XML_PARSE_HUGE a php option?
[09:58:09] <Hydrant>	I'm fine with just <code></code>... 
[09:58:53] <Splarka>	if only everyone was so easy to please
[09:59:27] <Annemarie>	Did you file DISPLAYTITLE madness as a bug?
[10:01:11] <Splarka>	code/tt are inline html elements, both are treated as wikicode (in that contained/descendant wikicode/html is parsed in them), code generally has a background color in browsers. <pre> is a special case, it is a parser tag, which means (almost) nothing inside it is parsed, though it outputs as a <pre> html element, which is a block level element that exactly preserves whitespace and newlines, so is suitable for more than one line of code...
[10:01:23] <Splarka>	it has a background color and border in most mw skins
[10:01:43] <Splarka>	Annemarie: it's a feature! but it reminded me of Raymondo
[10:01:58] <Splarka>	this is me after vandalizing RTD's userpage: http://raymondo.chickennation.com/comics/2009-07-03-vol3-002.png
[10:02:03] <Annemarie>	You should prefix that with !longrantabouttags
[10:02:12] <RoanKattouw>	For proper formatting of code snippets, use <source language="whatever">
[10:02:36] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw: and for examples of wikicode......?
[10:02:49] <Splarka>	and for wikis without a GeSHi extension?
[10:02:52] <Dor>	how can I import other .js files into MediaWiki:Common.js?
[10:03:00] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah, <code> in those  cases
[10:03:01] <Duesentrieb>	Dor: copy&paste?
[10:03:03] <Splarka>	importScript or importScriptURI
[10:03:12] <Annemarie>	What he said. ^
[10:03:14] <Splarka>	(if you have 1.13+)
[10:03:18] <Duesentrieb>	Actually, we should contrib a wikitext highlighter to geshi
[10:03:23] <Duesentrieb>	that would be quite nice :)
[10:03:29] <Splarka>	Duesentrieb: heh, yah
[10:03:40] <svip>	There is a highlighter anywhere for wikitext?
[10:03:41] <Dor>	Duesentrieb - isn't there a way to import other files...?
[10:03:42] <Splarka>	well, at least it should emulate the preprocessor or brace substitution
[10:03:55] <Duesentrieb>	Dor: <Splarka> importScript or importScriptURI
[10:03:56] <Splarka>	Dor: importScript or importScriptURI
[10:03:59] <Splarka>	heh
[10:04:21] <Splarka>	importScript('MediaWiki:Uncommon.js');   will import said local page as ctype=text/javascript
[10:05:18] <Splarka>	importScriptURI('http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js'); will import said script as a literal <script src="~" type="text/javascript">
[10:06:02] <Splarka>	so, to import a script from another mediawiki, you use importScriptURI('http://DOMAIN/PATH/index.php?title=TITLE&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript')
[10:06:55] <diddy>	Is it possible to make mediawiki a desktop wiki? What needs to be done so the mysql DB and Apache is not accessible from hosts other than 127.0.0.1?
[10:07:06] <Dor>	Splarka - thank you, just what I needed
[10:09:20] <silentNinja>	eek :-o getting libxml issues in php when i try import :(
[10:09:49] <silentNinja>	i know its not for here, but anyone perhaps come across XML_PARSE_HUGE issues when using Import?
[10:10:00] <Splarka>	Annemarie: anyway, I told skizzerz, he was amused, dunno if he'll fix it, but I mentioned he should go for a whitelist of html elements and html attributes, as well as a whitelist of allowed css attributes, rather than continually try to blacklist
[10:11:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Have a permalink type URL as a user preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18796  (10roan.kattouw)
[10:11:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) add an explicit action=view_source to present a page's markup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19681  (10jidanni)
[10:11:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Have a permalink type URL as a user preference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18796  (10Gerard.meijssen)
[10:14:15] <Dor>	does MediaWiki support <button>s?
[10:16:45] <RoanKattouw>	No
[10:16:46] <Splarka>	they aren't whitelisted html tags (since they'd require inline javascript to do anything which would be insecure) and generally extensions and javascript don't generate them (usually favoring <input type="button"> or just a/img with onclick), but they probably /could/... 
[10:17:43] <Splarka>	whatcha need them for? since they only do javascripty stuff, you can just generate them in JS
[10:18:04] <Dor>	ic...
[10:18:21] <Dor>	I'm trying to make a funky spoiler stuff
[10:18:28] <Dor>	I'll just use <a> :P
[10:18:31] <Dor>	thanks anyway folks
[10:18:33] <Splarka>	ahh, dynamic show/hide content?
[10:18:38] <Dor>	yeah
[10:18:46] <Splarka>	en.wp has something like that
[10:18:48] <silentNinja>	if i use {{Special:AllPages}} it includes all pages, but if i use {{Special:PopularPages}} i just get a link to popular pages. is there any way to get popular pages to be included rather than linked?
[10:18:51] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NAV
[10:18:58] <Dor>	Splarka - I know
[10:19:08] <Dor>	I'm trying to do something a little more sophisticated :P
[10:19:16] <Splarka>	and yet simpler, heh
[10:19:32] <Dor>	<a> is possible, right?
[10:19:56] <Splarka>	var foo = document.createElement('input'); foo.type = 'button'; foo.onclick = handlerfunctionthingy;
[10:20:13] <Splarka>	either/or
[10:20:34] <Dor>	Splarka - is <a> allowed to be written?
[10:20:49] <Duesentrieb>	not in wikitext.
[10:20:50] <RoanKattouw>	No, but there are plans for that AFAIK
[10:20:54] <Duesentrieb>	with javascript, you can do anything
[10:21:04] <Splarka>	heh
[10:21:04] <Duesentrieb>	RoanKattouw: ick
[10:21:18] <Splarka>	Dor: better to say, onclick="" and href="javascript:" are not allowed in wikitext
[10:21:21] <RoanKattouw>	Or at least a discussion on wikitech-l
[10:21:21] <Splarka>	on any element
[10:21:53] <Splarka>	but as site JS is allowed, you can create them in JS easily enough with createElement and appendChild
[10:22:22] <Splarka>	you could even have a non-JS fallback, which is a Good Thing (tm)
[10:23:08] <Splarka>	{{spoiler|title=foo|text=bar}} creating <span class="spoiler"><span class="spoiler-title">foo</span><span class="spoiler-body">bar</span></span>
[10:23:53] <Splarka>	.spoiler-body, .spoiler-body * {background-color:#ffffff;color:#ffffff;}
[10:24:15] <Splarka>	.spoiler-body:hover, .spoiler-body:hover * {background-color:#000000}
[10:24:24] <Splarka>	(won't work in IE, but they can just hilight)
[10:24:38] <Splarka>	then have an onload JS script iterate over getElementsByClassName('spoiler)
[10:24:53] <Splarka>	er getElementsByClassName(document,'span','spoiler')
[10:24:56] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Why the second selector? Isn't background-color inherited?
[10:25:15] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw: to override background colors assigned to descendants with higher specificity
[10:25:23] <Splarka>	like <code>
[10:25:24] <RoanKattouw>	Why not use !important
[10:25:28] <Splarka>	lame
[10:25:32] <RoanKattouw>	heh
[10:25:38] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw: didn't Tim chew you out for doing that in vector?
[10:25:44] <Splarka>	bad Roan, no cookie
[10:25:45] <RoanKattouw>	Not me he didn't
[10:25:49] <Splarka>	he should have ^_^
[10:25:52] <RoanKattouw>	I don't do the CSS, Trevor does
[10:26:01] <Splarka>	ahh, well, 'you' collective
[10:26:15] <RoanKattouw>	And it wasn't Tim but someone else who suggested avoiding !important
[10:26:54] <Splarka>	anyway, you can then iterate over getElementsByClassName(document,'span','spoiler'), and insert a <input type="button" onclick="showhide('spoiler-XXX')"> in the .spoiler-title and give the spoiler-body an ID matching XXX
[10:27:16] <Splarka>	it is pretty straightforward, with two fallback cases (JS disabled, JS disabled and user using IE6-7)
[10:27:50] <Splarka>	and if you know JS and some rudimentary then it should make sense ^_^
[10:27:56] <Splarka>	Dor^
[10:30:12] <Dor>	importScript is not defined
[10:30:14] <Dor>	how come
[10:30:23] <Dor>	gives me an error
[10:31:10] <Splarka>	Special:Version -> what mw are you on?
[10:31:38] <Dor>	1.12.0
[10:31:55] <Splarka>	ahh, is a 1.13 feature
[10:32:03] <Dor>	oh sux :(
[10:32:09] <Dor>	will loading in a traditional js way
[10:32:10] <Dor>	work?
[10:32:31] <Splarka>	what, like document.write('<script>')?
[10:32:56] <Splarka>	you can just stick this in your Common.js: http://p.defau.lt/?VRJsSmWGeqzUQ9N9YWJCQg
[10:33:21] <Dor>	will do
[10:33:22] <Dor>	ty
[10:33:28] <Dor>	cya later gtg :D
[10:50:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) hewiktionary pages-articles.xml dump corrupted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18651  (10iorsh)
[10:52:38] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[10:54:04] <cybunk>	hello
[10:54:14] <svip>	hullo.
[10:54:44] <cybunk>	I have a question about an extension of mediawiki
[10:55:43] <cybunk>	I have just installed FlaggedRevs and now some pages don't reply (HTTP ERROR 500) it's on the history (index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history)
[10:56:04] <RoanKattouw>	cybunk: Have you run the update script?
[10:56:06] <svip>	Did you check your error log?
[10:56:39] <cybunk>	yes i have ran the update script
[10:57:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10roan.kattouw)
[10:58:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Autosave cannot be configured - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19706 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh)
[10:59:44] <cybunk>	svip: I don't check it, i will try that,  just a second
[11:12:39] <cybunk>	svip: i'm seeing nothing really special in the error log, but is it possible that come from a local setting variable's configuration of the extension
[11:18:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Set up a logo for mhr.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19707 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (reg)
[11:26:00] <svip>	cybunk: Tried what RoanKattouw suggested?
[11:26:06] <svip>	Oh, you did. :[ Sorry.
[11:27:01] <cybunk>	yes and i retry it to be sure, and the script execute with no problems
[11:27:08] <cybunk>	the update
[11:27:19] <svip>	Strange then.
[11:27:27] <svip>	Never used flaggedrevs myself though.
[11:31:22] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) "Wiki does not exist" while mhr wiki does exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19708 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (reg)
[11:49:42] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53217 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (9 files in 4 dirs): 
[11:49:42] <CIA-58>	LiquidThreads updates:
[11:49:42] <CIA-58>	* Deprecate the last vestiges of an archive system -- there is no longer any summary nag for old discussions.
[11:49:42] <CIA-58>	* Reuse the parser function code to allow LQT to be turned on and off per-page with a parser function (which is currently kinda ugly, need to figure out the magic-word way of doing it).
[11:49:45] <CIA-58>	* Remove the TOC for pages with no threads, it just looks stupid. Replaced it with a short 'nothing to see here' message.
[11:49:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Abuse filter in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19642  (10ladsgroup)
[11:51:13] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Abuse filter in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19642  (10ladsgroup)
[11:52:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Abuse filter in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19642  +comment (10agarrett)
[11:55:06] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53218 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/TalkpageHeaderView.php: Fix localisation of lqt_header_warning and friends by adding replaceafter to wfMsg parameters
[11:56:16] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Revision-info message parameters filled incorrectly. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19709 minor; Normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (Amalthea.wikimedia)
[12:03:36] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Draft Save button is not enabled when spell check is done - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19710 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh)
[12:03:36] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53219 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/lqt.js: Fix fatal JS error on pages which aren't strictly talk pages (like 'new messages')
[12:06:38] <CIA-58>	03demon * r53220 10/branches/maintenance-work/maintenance/ (74 files): Clean up docs: removing @file from classes, adding GPL header consistently.
[12:10:39] <Duduman>	Could someone have a look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1790 please? It has been there since 2005 (Allowing Collada 3D files to commons)
[12:14:13] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53221 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/NewUserMessagesView.php: Edit override on postDivClass to apply the original class too, it breaks JS not to
[12:14:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Save Draft Button is enabled before doing any changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19684  (10janesh)
[12:18:05] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53222 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/lqt.css: Add !important to CSS definition, to fix regression in r53221
[12:20:06] <swathanthran>	http://smalltalk.gnu.org/ is that a media wiki theme? 
[12:23:13] <Splarka>	the html and css don't look at all like it
[12:23:48] <swathanthran>	okay.. the ML have some discussions saying its some drupal theme with a bit modification..
[12:24:15] <swathanthran>	well the wiki is having media wiki syntax.. thats why asked..
[12:24:19] <swathanthran>	;-) c ya..
[12:24:24] <swathanthran>	Splarka: thanks
[12:24:31] <Splarka>	could easily be a totally different skin on top of mediawiki
[12:24:34] <Splarka>	quitter
[12:32:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10alfred.maghi)
[12:33:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  summary (10alfred.maghi)
[12:40:15] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) addition of [[mediawikiwiki: prefix on mediawiki.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19405  +comment (10alfred.maghi)
[12:41:47] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Request for Unblock-zh-l - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19560  normal->04CRIT; +comment (10xu.jimmy.wrk)
[12:46:37] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Revision-info message parameters filled incorrectly. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19709  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[12:58:34] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53223 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/TalkpageView.php: Clean up some old cruft, and fix exclusion of deleted threads from talk pages -- was breaking because of mistyped index
[12:59:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) "private" info that should not be + usability issue with filter detail - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19005  (10od_mishehu)
[13:05:32] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53224 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/TalkpageView.php: Fix condition -- it's not thread_deleted, it's thread_type != Threads::TYPE_DELETED
[13:08:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10roan.kattouw)
[13:13:08] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Request for Unblock-zh-l - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19560  +comment (10cbrown1023)
[13:16:23] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53225 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (lqt.js pages/TalkpageView.php): Replace usage of trim() with a browser-independent str.replace() call. Also, fix an HTML validation error that Safari picked up
[13:17:40] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53226 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/NavigableTOC/ (4 files): NavigableTOC: Quick 'n dirty implementation of section following. Is inefficient and breaks horribly when the length of sections is changed, so still needs some polishing
[13:22:04] <silentNinja>	what do lastbut0 and lastbut1 templates do?
[13:22:42] <RoanKattouw>	silentNinja: On which wiki?
[13:22:54] <silentNinja>	meta
[13:23:06] <silentNinja>	meta.wikimedia.org
[13:23:21] <silentNinja>	its like 100 x nested conditional
[13:23:49] <silentNinja>	im basically playing around with import / export feature, and those things break the import into a new mediawiki install
[13:27:24] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Grant right "abusefilter-log-details" to autoconfirmed users @ zhwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19212  +comment (10xu.jimmy.wrk)
[13:35:22] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53227 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (Linker.php parser/Parser.php): 
[13:35:22] <CIA-58>	* Fix typo in Linker.php
[13:35:22] <CIA-58>	* Only call ParserOutput::setTOCHTML() if a TOC was really generated
[13:37:23] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53228 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/NavigableTOC/NavigableTOC.hooks.php: NavigableTOC: Fix bug for pages without TOC
[13:48:10] <CIA-58>	03daniel * r53229 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/wikis/ (7 files): plwiki
[13:48:18] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53230 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (59 files): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-07-14 12:50 UTC)
[13:49:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Techblog needs skin tweak - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18085  +comment (10happy-melon)
[14:17:24] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53231 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 
[14:17:24] <CIA-58>	LiquidThreads 1.15 compatibility:
[14:17:24] <CIA-58>	* Completely kill the Post class, it was totally useless anyway.
[14:17:24] <CIA-58>	* Create a new compatibility subclass for 1.15 which encapsulates the getting of
[14:17:24] <CIA-58>	parser output from an article object that exists in 1.16. Only overridden for
[14:17:25] <CIA-58>	1.15 and lower, so that newer versions can benefit from those improvements.
[14:17:29] <CIA-58>	* Fix quoting to use blockquotes instead of leading > for MW < 1.16.
[14:19:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  +comment (10alfred.maghi)
[14:23:28] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53232 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
[14:23:28] <CIA-58>	More 1.15 compatibility fixes:
[14:23:28] <CIA-58>	* Copy in a version of HTMLForm.php for MW 1.15.
[14:23:28] <CIA-58>	* Move compatibility classes into compat/
[14:24:13] <Dor>	is it possible to upgrade between mw versions?
[14:24:21] <werdna>	of course
[14:24:22] <werdna>	!upgrade
[14:24:22] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[14:24:25] <Dor>	without reuploading every single file?
[14:24:57] <Duesentrieb>	hm? file? you mean images and such?
[14:25:16] <Dor>	no, I mean likesource files
[14:25:23] <Dor>	and images and such :P
[14:25:24] <Duesentrieb>	err.
[14:25:34] <Duesentrieb>	if you want a new version, you need new source files
[14:25:41] <Duesentrieb>	how else could it possibly work?
[14:25:56] <Dor>	ic :P
[14:25:59] <Dor>	ok ty :D
[14:27:02] <^demon>	werdna: I think Post wins the award for "most useless class of the week"
[14:28:38] <NobbZ>	Hi!
[14:29:31] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53233 10/trunk/extensions/ (133 files in 122 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from translatewiki.net (2009-07-14 14:00 UTC)
[14:30:09] <NobbZ>	I have a problem with some of my categoriy-pages, can some one help me? On some pages the articles are not listed alphabetically, but all listed unsorted under the starting letter of the category (example http://nobbz.de/wiki/index.php/Kategorie:Verkaufsware (german))
[14:31:28] <werdna>	^demon: it used to be useful :P
[14:31:33] <Duesentrieb>	NobbZ: in Vorlage:Info hast du: [[Kategorie:Verkaufsware|Verkaufsware]]
[14:31:39] <Duesentrieb>	das ist der grund.
[14:31:51] <werdna>	^demon: the stupidity award is for the XSS vulnerability marked with a TODO :)
[14:33:01] <werdna>	morning brion
[14:33:06] <^demon>	werdna: Yeah I'll give you that
[14:33:08] <^demon>	Heya brion
[14:33:27] <brion>	yo yo
[14:34:23] <NobbZ>	Danke D�sentrieb! scheint zu funktionieren, wird sich jetzt wohl hinarbeiten wenn die Auftr�ge abgearbeitet wurden. Besten Dank!
[14:37:24] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10alfred.maghi)
[14:40:42] <werdna>	So I'm bundling a generic interface found in MW 1.16+ with LiquidThreads so it can be used on MW 1.15.
[14:40:53] <werdna>	Which is fine, but that interface has specific localisation
[14:41:25] <Nikerabbit>	wassup
[14:41:36] <werdna>	So what I'm thinking of doing is keeping a list of related messages, and generating an extension messages file with MW 1.16 to bundle with it
[14:41:39] <werdna>	thoughts?
[14:41:56] <werdna>	I could copy the messages, but I'd sort of rather not fuck with the translators that badly :D
[14:43:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10roan.kattouw)
[14:44:02] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: does that sound like a decent way to do it
[14:44:20] <werdna>	I can auto-generate an extension messages file from 1.16 core
[14:44:49] <Nikerabbit>	how?
[14:45:14] <werdna>	I'll write a script which has a list of messages, and wfMsgNoTrans() each of them, export them in the extension messages file format
[14:45:44] <werdna>	well, doWhateverMsgCallINeed() each of them for every language
[14:45:44] <svip>	Wow, you're going a mile a minute.
[14:46:52] <Nikerabbit>	     15:49 ‎    ‎GerardM ‎Show user links ‎changed group membership for <a href="/wiki/User:Rameshng" title="User:Rameshng">User:Rameshng</a> from (none) to Translators 
[14:47:05] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) template detail no show in multiple pages request - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19711 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (alexsh)
[14:47:26] <Nikerabbit>	was that Tim-away or me?
[14:47:33] <werdna>	Tim
[14:47:51] <werdna>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/53173
[14:47:56] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: nah, fallbacks mess you
[14:48:07] <werdna>	svn merge -c -53173 includes/LogPage.php
[14:48:12] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: then, what do you suggest?
[14:48:57] <Nikerabbit>	well, you can try to parse the files, and I can do many things at translatewiki.net
[14:49:54] <werdna>	Perhaps storing fallbacks (other than en) is a good thing anyway
[14:50:17] <Nikerabbit>	dunno
[14:50:56] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) template detail no show in multiple pages request - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19711  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[14:51:41] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: well I'll go down that path for now :)
[14:58:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10brion)
[15:02:34] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10roan.kattouw)
[15:04:24] <brion>	RoanKattouw: poke naoko on that when she gets in the office and make her choose :)
[15:04:31] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah will do
[15:06:50] <^demon>	brion: Did you ever get a chance to poke r52762 yesterday?
[15:08:03] <brion>	nope
[15:08:07] <brion>	ok headin into the office
[15:11:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  +comment (10alfred.maghi)
[15:14:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[15:15:14] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: eliminating fallback stuff with this:
[15:15:24] <werdna>	foreach( $languages as $lang ) { $fallback = Language::getFallbackFor( $lang ); $fallbackData = $data[$fallback]; 
[15:15:28] <werdna>	$data[$lang] = array_diff_assoc( $data[$lang], $fallbackData );
[15:15:29] <werdna>	}
[15:19:35] <werdna>	Warning: dba_open(/tmp/mw-cache/l10n_cache-sdc.cdb): failed to open stream: Too many open files in /Users/andrew/wm-svn/phase3/includes/Cdb.php on line 94
[15:19:38] <werdna>	bah
[15:20:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10bugzilla.wikimedia)
[15:22:06] <wikibugs>	03(CLOSED) template detail no show in multiple pages request - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19711  +comment (10alexsh)
[15:22:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10alfred.maghi)
[15:22:24] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: close them? :o
[15:22:53] <Nikerabbit>	hi mdale 
[15:24:10] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: no, I just did ulimit -n 10000 :D
[15:24:25] <werdna>	mdale: what's this I hear about script loader stuff hitting core?
[15:24:39] <mdale>	yep working on a merge right now
[15:24:42] <werdna>	awesome
[15:24:44] <werdna>	what stuff?
[15:24:50] <mdale>	~everything~ ;)
[15:25:06] <werdna>	O RLY
[15:25:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10roan.kattouw)
[15:25:23] <mdale>	new-upload, script-server js2 javascript stuff... (its all disabled by default)
[15:25:35] <RoanKattouw>	Is all that stuff finally getting merged?
[15:26:01] *RoanKattouw 	would've given mdale an entire roll of stroopwafels had he announced this just one working day earlier
[15:26:49] *werdna 	waits for localisation to generate
[15:27:18] <GreenReaper>	Chinese is just huge. They need to trim that language down.
[15:27:18] *werdna 	listens to his CPU fan
[15:27:49] <werdna>	oopsies, got it into an infinite loop
[15:29:42] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: huge how?
[15:29:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10innocentkiller)
[15:35:08] <GreenReaper>	Nikerabbit: The translation tables alone take up 1Mb of cache.
[15:35:35] <GreenReaper>	I take it back - as of now it's 1.6Mb.
[15:36:08] <GreenReaper>	Then there's all the separate localizations for individual variants
[15:36:39] <GreenReaper>	That's another 1.8Mb for nine variants.
[15:37:51] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: Megabits ? that's nothing
[15:38:04] <GreenReaper>	Megabytes.
[15:38:13] <GreenReaper>	And for you, perhaps. I only have part of one server to use. :-)
[15:38:20] <GreenReaper>	and it has to handle 14 wikis.
[15:38:32] <Nikerabbit>	so what, they can all use the same cache usuallly
[15:39:09] <Nikerabbit>	blame unicode for using three bytes for each chinese character
[15:39:11] <GreenReaper>	Actually we had to hack it so that they *could* use the same cache for languages, since localizations are normally cached per dbname
[15:39:37] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: only the mediawiki messages
[15:39:40] <GreenReaper>	so you would have en:localization:de and de:localization:de and each was 250 kilobytes.
[15:39:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10bugzilla.wikimedia)
[15:39:55] <RoanKattouw>	That's because messages can be customized per-wiki
[15:40:06] <GreenReaper>	messages can, localizations cannot.
[15:40:49] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: at twn, those sizes are megabytes per language... I'd call that a problem
[15:40:52] <GreenReaper>	I could be wrong there but AFAIK they're read directly from the file in /languages
[15:41:00] <Nikerabbit>	everything else is on disc fortunately and kernel cached
[15:41:19] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: are you using the new or old localisation cache?
[15:41:21] <GreenReaper>	Well, we changed it so they all went to the ID of the shared pool wiki
[15:41:26] <GreenReaper>	I'm using whatever was in 1.15
[15:41:50] <GreenReaper>	This is APC cache I'm talking about, not any kind of downloading cache, I'm not using that.
[15:41:56] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53234 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (NavigableTOC/NavigableTOC.js OptIn/OptIn.i18n.php): 
[15:41:56] <CIA-58>	UsabilityInitiative:
[15:41:56] <CIA-58>	* Made OptIn messages more consistent per bug 19705; also used {{int:}} more often and fixed a few grammatical mistakes, awkward wordings and a Californism
[15:41:56] <CIA-58>	* Adding message documentation for OptIn where I thought it was useful; feel free to request more if necessary
[15:42:00] <CIA-58>	* Whitespace tweaks in NavigableTOC
[15:42:04] <GreenReaper>	would be stored in memcache on some wikis.
[15:42:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10roan.kattouw)
[15:43:09] <GreenReaper>	http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm207/GreenReaperLP/Capture.png
[15:43:18] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53235 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/classes/LqtNewMessages.php: 1.15 compatibility for NewMessages class
[15:43:58] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: \o/
[15:43:59] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53236 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Add pre-generated localisation for htmlforms. PLEASE DO NOT ADD TO TRANSLATEWIKI IF YOU VALUE OUR TRANSLATOR'S SANITY! It is pre-generated from existing core localisation in 1.16.
[15:44:36] <Nikerabbit>	 werdna it would conflict anyway :)
[15:44:50] <werdna>	;)
[15:45:14] <RoanKattouw>	werdna: Don't underestimate the Siebrand, he added OptIn to TW even though I warned him the messages were sure to change in the future
[15:45:23] <werdna>	;)
[15:45:30] <asmarin>	when upgrade from 1.15 to 1.15 recentchanges doesnt run Table 'wikinew114.tag_summary' doesn't exis
[15:45:33] <RoanKattouw>	Now they are changing, and people (or at least this one guy on bug 19705) is complaining
[15:45:46] <RoanKattouw>	asmarin: Run update.php
[15:48:39] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: the Siebrand? :o
[15:48:50] <RoanKattouw>	lol
[15:49:01] <RoanKattouw>	Changed from "the TW people"
[15:50:01] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: be careful, that may be jidanni :)
[15:50:08] <RoanKattouw>	hehe
[15:54:29] <asmarin>	RoanKattouw: solved!
[15:54:54] <RoanKattouw>	asmarin: Great! For future reference, always run update.php after an upgrade and after installing certain extensions
[15:57:45] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53237 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/ThreadActionPage.php: Add missing file
[15:59:05] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) OTRS doesn't send reminders anymore - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18575  +comment (10fvassard)
[16:01:37] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53238 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/SpecialSplitThread.php: Another missing file :)
[16:08:28] <CIA-58>	03aaron * r53239 10/trunk/extensions/ReaderFeedback/language/ReaderFeedback.i18n.php: 
[16:08:28] <CIA-58>	*Partial revert of r53233
[16:08:28] <CIA-58>	*Fixed msg group
[16:09:13] <Diviatrixx>	can someone help me ? ^^
[16:09:40] <Mohammed>	Yes , about ?
[16:09:57] <Diviatrixx>	Mohammed oh MediaWiki of cource ^^, heh
[16:10:08] <Guest76551>	Ok , Go on 
[16:10:10] <Diviatrixx>	i just installed mediaWiki on my site
[16:10:16] <svip>	Woot
[16:10:21] <Guest76551>	ok 
[16:10:36] <Diviatrixx>	and in trouble,  if i click any page it dont opens
[16:10:46] <svip>	What happens instead?
[16:10:50] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: I do not understand your revert r53239. 
[16:10:58] <Guest76551>	what is the error you see?
[16:11:10] <Diviatrixx>	are link allowed here ?
[16:11:17] <Diviatrixx>	just "page dont exists"
[16:11:25] <Diviatrixx>	and not standart 404
[16:11:33] <Diviatrixx>	but main page opens well
[16:11:39] <svip>	Well, that would be MediaWiki telling you haven't created the page yet.
[16:11:52] <Diviatrixx>	nop, it dont tell me
[16:11:59] <svip>	You just said it did.
[16:12:03] <RoanKattouw>	Diviatrixx: Links are allowed, even appreciated
[16:12:13] <Diviatrixx>	gufoo.ru  try click any link.
[16:12:25] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: ReaderFeedback.i18n.php has in English source messages related to ReaderFeedback only
[16:12:30] <asmarin>	y el cambio de portada a página principal? :-\
[16:12:49] <svip>	Diviatrixx: The page is blank.
[16:13:03] <Diviatrixx>	o_O u mean main ?
[16:13:08] <Guest76551>	The page is blank
[16:13:13] <svip>	The link you gave.
[16:13:15] <svip>	It is blank.
[16:13:18] <Diviatrixx>	strange.
[16:13:21] <Guest76551>	ya the link you gave 
[16:13:34] <Guest76551>	ok , provide us with a sceenshot 
[16:13:40] <Guest76551>	screenshot*
[16:13:54] <Diviatrixx>	now i see
[16:13:56] <RoanKattouw>	Diviatrixx: Try to run update.php as it said in the upgrade manual. You shouldn't normally need to, we know, it's a bug
[16:14:13] <RoanKattouw>	That should at least fix the completely blank page
[16:14:17] <Diviatrixx>	okay, i'll try now
[16:14:47] <Guest76551>	Ok , now I have a problem if you do not mind all 
[16:15:18] <Mohammed>	I need to authenticate users for mediawiki from an external form
[16:16:03] <RoanKattouw>	Use an AuthPlugin?
[16:16:07] <Guest71866>	and another table rather than the original table "users"
[16:16:07] <RoanKattouw>	!authplugin | Guest71866 
[16:16:07] --mwbot--	Guest71866: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin
[16:16:45] <Diviatrixx>	RoanKattouw oh, sry, where is update.php ?
[16:16:46] <CIA-58>	03pinky * r53240 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.i18n.php: Fix typo (s/sytem/system/)
[16:16:48] <AaronSchulz>	Raymond_: looked incomplete
[16:17:00] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: hmmm. doing again
[16:17:06] <Raymond_>	hopefully right now
[16:17:15] <AaronSchulz>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ReaderFeedback/language/ReaderFeedback.i18n.php?revision=53233&view=markup&sortby=date
[16:17:28] <RoanKattouw>	Diviatrixx: In the maintenance/ directory. You need to run it from the command line. See also the upgrade manual
[16:17:30] <RoanKattouw>	!upgrade
[16:17:30] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[16:17:37] <AaronSchulz>	it should kill all the useless messages right?
[16:17:47] <Diviatrixx>	thanks guys
[16:18:08] <Guest71866>	Thanks alot guys
[16:18:31] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: not in  one commit. the export script do it for languages with changes only. But  I will do it manually now
[16:19:17] <CIA-58>	03aaron * r53241 10/trunk/extensions/ReaderFeedback/language/ReaderFeedback.i18n.php: removed qqq
[16:20:51] <AaronSchulz>	for a while it looked like it was confused on the group...but those were just confusing diffs
[16:22:55] <MrSCQ>	Hi! I tried yesterday to run rebuilMessages.php through console, as well as to truncate the table objectcache... but the linguistical words keeps appearing in the lang of the instalation, and not in the lang i set up at the LocalSettings.php What else should I do in order to have "a full mediawiki in spanish"??? :?
[16:23:26] <RoanKattouw>	MrSCQ: Edit your language in "My preferences"
[16:23:50] <MrSCQ>	you said it could be the user config of the lang?
[16:23:56] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[16:24:09] <RoanKattouw>	I think you have English set as your user language
[16:24:26] <MrSCQ>	hmmm... miss that one, gonna check it (although this moves were checked without being logged)
[16:25:00] <diddy>	Hi folks, I have a question. I installed mysql on Ubuntu Linux and also installed the media wiki software. The software is working fine and I can see the DB under /var/lib/mysql. However, when I start the mysql client and issue: SHOW DATABASES; then I can only see "DATABASE" and "information_schema". Why is that?
[16:27:00] <MrSCQ>	now that i remember, it wasnt even logged any user... now im more confused! :P
[16:27:24] <AaronSchulz>	raymond_: the same can be done for flaggedrevs then I guess
[16:27:35] <RoanKattouw>	MrSCQ: Then make sure you've edited the right LocalSettings.php and that $wgLanguageCode isn't getting overridden further down in that file
[16:30:15] <MrSCQ>	you said that it might be doubled the $wgLanguageCode in the localsettings? (that way, seems logical an override... gonna check that one!)
[16:31:35] <Raymond_>	AaronSchulz: ok, I will have a look after cleaning up ReaderFeedback
[16:33:15] <RoanKattouw>	MrSCQ: In case of double occurences, the one furthest down (i.e. with the highest line number) wins
[16:33:58] <MrSCQ>	RoanKattouw -> intresting fact to know in any other variable of the mediawiki!
[16:34:34] <svip>	diddy: Did you create a database for MediaWiki?
[16:35:16] <diddy>	svip: Mediawiki created the database
[16:35:39] <RoanKattouw>	MrSCQ: Also, stuff that's above the line that says require_once("$IP/includes/DefaultSettings.php"); is generally overwritten by the default value.
[16:35:54] <svip>	diddy: No, it does not.
[16:36:11] <svip>	RoanKattouw: Wait, can MediaWiki create databases?
[16:36:24] <RoanKattouw>	No
[16:36:33] <RoanKattouw>	It creates the *tables*
[16:36:33] <svip>	Thought so.
[16:36:39] <svip>	Exactly.
[16:36:40] <RoanKattouw>	*inside* the database you have to create
[16:36:45] <svip>	diddy: You will have to create the database manually.
[16:37:15] <MrSCQ>	RoanKattouw -> the funny thing is that this is an internal wiki, but now everyone is kinda mad, coz we're suppoused to solve this in a seccond, but...
[16:37:28] <svip>	...
[16:39:10] <werdna>	o_O
[16:39:23] <svip>	werdna: Why so confused?
[16:39:36] <svip>	Or is your left eye just bigger than your right one?
[16:40:13] <diddy>	scip: ??? But I already installed mediawiki and it is working fine.
[16:40:21] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53242 10/trunk/extensions/ReaderFeedback/language/ReaderFeedback.i18n.php: Clean up i18n after splitting extension
[16:40:23] <diddy>	svip: ??? But I already installed mediawiki and it is working fine.
[16:40:29] <svip>	Hm.
[16:40:38] <svip>	Checked your LocalSettings.php file?
[16:40:43] <svip>	Which database does it use?
[16:40:44] <diddy>	in /var/lib/mysql there is the folder wiki
[16:41:22] <diddy>	svip: And the wiki is working just beautifully. However, if I go: SHOW DATABASES it it not shown. Why?
[16:41:25] <svip>	So on the install page, you just wrote "wiki" as the database?
[16:41:41] <svip>	diddy: Apparently because the MySQL server does not know of its existence.
[16:41:41] <diddy>	svip: Yes.
[16:42:05] <svip>	Err...
[16:42:21] <diddy>	svip: I can not follow.
[16:42:25] <svip>	Can somebody please tell me whether MediaWiki can create a database or not?
[16:42:32] <diddy>	svip: What did I do wrong?
[16:42:43] <svip>	Usually you'll have to create the database manually.
[16:42:55] <diddy>	svip: I didn't create a database by hand, so it must have created it.
[16:43:06] <svip>	Well, yeah.
[16:43:21] <svip>	But it sounds like MediaWiki did not create it the intended way, as MySQL is not aware of its present.
[16:43:25] <svip>	Or rather, does not have it indexed.
[16:43:26] <diddy>	I only excecuted the install php script.
[16:43:45] <diddy>	svip: But why is it working then?
[16:44:01] <svip>	Because MySQL often doesn't care if it is wrong.
[16:44:14] <svip>	If there is actually a database (even if it doesn't know it) called "wiki", it'll still accept it.
[16:45:34] <diddy>	svip: Or do I have to be root to issue mysql and then show databases?
[16:46:26] <svip>	Uhm, root mysql user, diddy.
[16:46:29] <svip>	Not root on the system.
[16:47:26] <diddy>	svip: How do I become root user again?
[16:47:40] <eagleheart>	hi people, my user gave me some css code to drop into MediaWiki:Common.css, and asked (along with that) if we had the prettytables extension installed.
[16:47:48] <eagleheart>	I can't find any extension by that name. 
[16:47:50] <svip>	On Linux(Ubuntu) or MySQL?
[16:47:59] <eagleheart>	Any idea what they're referring to?
[16:48:21] <svip>	eagleheart: Never heard of it.
[16:48:27] <diddy>	svip: ahaaa, I logged in as root and now all databases are there.
[16:48:28] <svip>	Did you ask them?
[16:48:37] <svip>	diddy: Ah.
[16:48:45] <diddy>	svip: Is that the way it is supposed to be?
[16:48:47] <svip>	Well, it would appear you did not originally have the rights.
[16:48:49] <svip>	diddy: Yes.
[16:48:57] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53243 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.settings.i18n.php: Correct casing of DjVu
[16:48:59] <svip>	You don't want all users to see all tables, now do you?
[16:49:30] <diddy>	svip: Only the root user should be able to access the wiki page?
[16:49:59] <diddy>	scip: Can I change that to another user?
[16:49:59] <svip>	diddy: No.  Only the root user should be able to access that MySQL database.
[16:50:01] <eagleheart>	svip: thanks
[16:50:02] <diddy>	svip: Can I change that to another user?
[16:50:21] <svip>	diddy: Err-- I dunno, but I suppose you can.
[16:50:22] <diddy>	svip: Isn't that a security risk?
[16:50:41] <svip>	Yeah, but usually you create a user for the wiki.
[16:51:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10nkomura)
[16:52:46] <diddy>	svip: But what user am I in the database if i just start the mysql client with: "mysql" and not "mysql -u root -pBlahpass" ?
[16:52:59] <Splarka>	eagleheart: they may be confused, ask if they mean the prettytables "css styles" or such (or templates)
[16:53:17] <svip>	diddy: Uhm, I suppose it tries as your Unix user.
[16:53:26] <svip>	If that does not have a MySQL user, it will fail.
[16:53:41] <svip>	Splarka: I assumed it was like "wikitable".
[16:54:10] <diddy>	I just started the mysql and went CREATE DATABASE test; Now how can I see who it belongs to?
[16:54:24] <svip>	Err--.
[16:54:26] <svip>	Oh man, diddy.
[16:54:32] <svip>	You might find a better answer in #mysql
[16:54:36] <Splarka>	svip: that is the only way I've heard of it, yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css /* wikitable/prettytable class for skinning normal tables */
[16:55:02] <svip>	Wee.
[16:55:34] <kim__>	diddy, it belongs to mysql ?
[16:55:57] <diddy>	kim__: How can I find out?
[16:57:22] <kim__>	well
[16:57:43] <kim__>	use information_schema;
[16:57:49] <kim__>	select * from user_privileges
[16:57:50] <kim__>	;
[16:57:53] <kim__>	should be a good start
[17:05:02] <briMestone>	hey guys.. i need help.. i have MediaWiki on MAC OSX 10.4.11 running MAMP, everything is working fine aside from the SMTP authentication
[17:08:11] <^demon>	brion: Got a second to poke that rev now?
[17:12:41] <brion>	^demon: no.
[17:12:50] <brion>	if it's not the most vital thing in the world i won't touch it for days at least
[17:13:22] <briMestone>	after setting up $wgSMTP to an Array, i get a blank page after a do a "Confirm Email" link.. i need help
[17:14:57] <^demon>	brion: Definitely can't say it's the most vital thing in the world. It can wait :)
[17:15:20] <briMestone>	i dont know what is wrong, i setup and confirmed PEAR, MAIL, and Net_SMTP
[17:15:53] <brion>	:D
[17:16:23] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) File history - not XHTML valid unicode sign - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19712 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (michael.frey)
[17:16:27] <briMestone>	anyone help :D
[17:16:45] <Reedy>	briMestone, post the relevant parts of your LocalSettings.php with passwords removed
[17:17:03] <briMestone>	wait 
[17:17:34] <briMestone>	$wgSMTP = array(
[17:17:34] <briMestone>	 'host'     => "plus.smtp.mail.yahoo.com ",
[17:17:34] <briMestone>	 'IDHost'   => "t3ddy94123",
[17:17:34] <briMestone>	 'port'     => 465,
[17:17:34] <briMestone>	 'auth'     => true,
[17:17:35] <briMestone>	 'username' => "user",
[17:17:37] <briMestone>	 'password' => "password"
[17:17:39] <briMestone>	);
[17:17:42] *Reedy 	slaps himself
[17:17:46] <Reedy>	I meant pastebin, not post
[17:17:53] <briMestone>	ohhh... 
[17:18:25] <briMestone>	http://pastebin.com/m107b1811
[17:20:24] <briMestone>	i checked and confirm that pear is installed in the system, including the mail and net_smtp module for it
[17:20:57] <str4nd>	'.com ",' -> '.com",'
[17:21:55] <briMestone>	changed it right away and test.. no go 
[17:22:50] <^demon>	Did you try enabling debugging?
[17:23:24] <briMestone>	im new at this, i do not know how to use the debugging mode on mediawiki
[17:24:58] <Reedy>	!debug | briMestone 
[17:24:58] --mwbot--	briMestone: For information on debugging (including viewing errors), see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_debug>.
[17:25:32] <briMestone>	aha
[17:26:06] <briMestone>	Now we are talking
[17:26:45] <briMestone>	ok.. it cant find mail.php, which is already installed in the system... how do i update the include path?
[17:27:01] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53244 10/trunk/tools/bookmarklets/ (bookmarklets.html secure-switch.js): Fill out that special exceptions list a bit more. :)
[17:27:06] <^demon>	That'd be a php.ini change, or you could do it with set_include_path() in your LocalSettings.
[17:28:41] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) XML not well formatted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19713 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (hunniger)
[17:29:33] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) XML not well formatted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19713  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:29:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) File history - not XHTML valid unicode sign - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19712  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:29:54] <^demon>	I'm wondering if that's ^^^ a regression.
[17:30:15] <CIA-58>	03ialex * r53245 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (LiquidThreads.php LqtFunctions.php): Use ParserFirstCallInit hook if available
[17:30:25] <briMestone>	hey another question, check the path where mail.php is...
[17:34:22] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53246 10/trunk/extensions/CentralAuth/CentralAuth.i18n.php: Remove misleading sentence. It is not possible to change the home wiki.
[17:35:25] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) ImagePage: Don't link filehistory-selected - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17912  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:35:32] <Nikerabbit>	hmm
[17:35:40] <Nikerabbit>	dupe of utf-8 cutoff?
[17:36:22] <briMestone>	how can i locate the absolute path of Mail.php of pear says its already installed
[17:36:28] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) page rendering problems at en.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18686  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:37:15] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Mebbe :)
[17:38:15] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Feature request: Who submitted a specific bit of text? - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18218  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:38:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add feature annotate/blame command, to indicate who last changed each line / word - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=639  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[17:38:38] <reedy>	639 is an old bug ;)
[17:38:59] <^demon>	Yep.
[17:39:13] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53247 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (Vector.php vector/main-ltr.css vector/main-rtl.css): More RTL fixes and also another fix to r52944 which broke the inclusion of common/IEFixes.js
[17:39:16] <briMestone>	how do i located mail.php so i can point the include path to it 
[17:39:20] <kim__>	viewvc has annotated mode
[17:39:22] <ialex>	briMestone: You have to get Mail.php from pear
[17:39:30] <ialex>	it's not part of MediaWiki
[17:39:33] <kim__>	I wonder if the algorithm is of any use
[17:39:56] <^demon>	kim__: Probably of some use, if only as a proof of concept.
[17:39:57] <ialex>	kim__: I think it relies on svn blame
[17:39:58] <kim__>	hmm, there's actually code attached
[17:39:58] <briMestone>	i actually found it just right now, Finder cant find it, i had use terminal fine
[17:40:02] <briMestone>	*find
[17:40:56] <CIA-58>	03werdna * r53248 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/classes/LqtThread.php: Fix fatal
[17:41:35] <kim__>	would it help if mediawiki actually stored data in delta-compressed format?
[17:41:45] <kim__>	(ancient discussion ;-) )
[17:42:16] <werdna>	kim__: a lot of data actually is
[17:42:25] <kim__>	hmmm
[17:42:44] <kim__>	what was the problem with Edward Yang's code?
[17:42:46] <kim__>	too slow?
[17:43:53] <briMestone>	i think im almost there....
[17:44:03] <briMestone>	i just need to know how to update this: set_include_path( implode( PATH_SEPARATOR, $path ) . PATH_SEPARATOR . get_include_path() );
[17:44:19] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53249 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/ (main-ltr.css main-rtl.css): Deafulted to a 0 minimum width on modern FF browsers.
[17:45:23] <^demon>	kim__: Not sure, none of the followup comments seem to comment on his code itself. It's certainly outdated, that's for sure.
[17:46:22] <kim__>	ok, I've bookmarked the bug
[17:46:35] <kim__>	goodness knows when I'll have the copious free time to do anything though ^^;;
[17:47:26] <^demon>	kim__: You'll probably earn the eternal gratitude of every MediaWiki user if you actually implemented that (and in a manner efficient enough to put in on WMF too)
[17:47:46] <briMestone>	hey ^demon, i need help on how to update set_include_path
[17:49:24] <^demon>	briMestone: Putting something like set_include_path( get_include_path() . PATH_SEPARATOR . "/path/to/pear" ); would work.
[17:49:28] <briMestone>	yes.. 
[17:49:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10bugzilla.wikimedia)
[17:50:07] <briMestone>	thank you sir, now i get a single line error on the browser: 
[17:50:07] <briMestone>	Fatal error: Class 'Mail' not found in /usr/lib/php/Mail/mail.php on line 26
[17:50:11] <kim__>	demon: If it earns one eternal gratitude, I wonder why no-one else has tried now?
[17:50:18] <briMestone>	i mean: 
[17:50:18] <briMestone>	Fatal error: Class 'Mail' not found in /usr/lib/php/Mail/mail.php on line 26
[17:51:03] <kim__>	something odd there!
[17:51:19] <^demon>	kim__: Eternal gratitude is overrated :D
[17:54:36] <TrevorRTLNinja>	does anyone have Chrome 1 installed?
[17:59:26] <Nikerabbit>	hi kim__ 
[17:59:45] <briMestone>	waaaaaaaaa.... i get a no class Mail found on mail.php
[18:00:36] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Add a second tagline to default skin layout - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3120  (10innocentkiller)
[18:04:39] <kim__>	Hi Nikerabbit 
[18:05:02] <kim__>	^demon, Edward Yang wrote this stuff years ago
[18:05:04] <Dragonfly6-7>	Out of curiosity - if MediaWiki were a commercial product, how much would it cost?
[18:05:09] <Dragonfly6-7>	realistically.
[18:05:09] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) missing permission error page for special page of abuse filter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19714 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[18:05:11] <reedy>	> 0
[18:05:23] <kim__>	Dragonfly6-7, quite a lot
[18:05:41] <briMestone>	Fatal error: Class 'Mail' not found in /usr/lib/php/Mail/mail.php on line 26
[18:05:53] <kim__>	Dragonfly6-7, you could just calculate say 10 lines of code per hour, at $50 per hour, or something like that
[18:05:57] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) add new feature hierarchy view - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3329  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[18:06:02] <Dragonfly6-7>	kim__ - I don't have that data.
[18:06:07] <kim__>	Dragonfly6-7, not that lines of code is a great measure, but it's a rule of thumb
[18:06:15] <kim__>	Dragonfly6-7, wc -l ? ;-)
[18:06:23] <^demon>	kim__: Yeah, it's old.
[18:06:24] <Dragonfly6-7>	kim__ - ..... what?
[18:06:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create wikimediaCO-l list - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19610  (10chlewey)
[18:06:40] <Simetrical>	Dragonfly6-7, realistically, who knows.  If it were commercial, it might be freeware and make money off support.  Depends totally on the business model.
[18:06:46] <Nikerabbit>	Dragonfly6-7: read http://www.ohloh.net/p/mediawiki
[18:07:11] <^demon>	Dragonfly6-7: ohloh estimates it cost $27.3mil in man hours, but take that with a grain of salt.
[18:07:18] <Simetrical>	Major grain of salt, it's BS.
[18:07:27] <Simetrical>	If it were a commercial project, 98% of the stuff in the repo wouldn't exist.
[18:07:38] <kim__>	urk, wc has no recursive option
[18:07:56] <Dragonfly6-7>	Simetrical - yes, I realize that. I'm thinking about something.
[18:08:06] <Simetrical>	kim__, find -exec cat {} + | wc -l
[18:08:18] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Special:AbuseFilter/tools produce javascript error in IE7 when typing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19715 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[18:08:20] <Nikerabbit>	ugga
[18:08:23] <Simetrical>	(probably not useful to include the binaries in that ;) )
[18:08:29] <Dragonfly6-7>	so, $27.3M to make... how much would an 'enterprise'-quality copy of Mediawiki go for, under these hypothetical circumstances?
[18:08:32] <Dragonfly6-7>	several hundred dollars?
[18:08:39] <Dragonfly6-7>	would that be a reasonable estimate?
[18:08:44] <Dragonfly6-7>	perhaps upwards of a thousand?
[18:08:53] *Splarka 	WONTFIXes ^demon
[18:09:05] <^demon>	Splarka: You couldn't fix me if you tried :)
[18:09:08] <Nikerabbit>	Dragonfly6-7: all the translations would cost shitloads of money too
[18:09:20] <Simetrical>	Dragonfly6-7, these are all completely unanswerable questions.
[18:09:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) missing permission error page for special page of abuse filter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19714  (10umherirrender_de.wp)
[18:09:32] <Simetrical>	They don't make any sense.  Projects developed like MediaWiki is aren't developed commercially.
[18:09:41] <Simetrical>	It's a different business model.
[18:10:33] <Splarka>	"How much would Wikipedia be worth if sold to a commercial company that put up ads?" "If there was any possibility of that, how many people do you think would be volunteering time and money to it to built up an encyclopedia, to be so desirable to such a company?"
[18:11:16] <werdna>	the find -exec syntax is totally retarded
[18:11:27] <Splarka>	you might get an H2G2 out of it
[18:11:39] <Splarka>	or a youtube/myspace/facebook cluster of inanity
[18:11:51] <Simetrical>	werdna, amen.
[18:12:51] <Nikerabbit>	hi Splarka 
[18:12:55] <Nikerabbit>	why are you up so late
[18:13:14] <Splarka>	11am is not late
[18:13:56] <Simetrical>	Splarka, wait, so you're not nocturnal?
[18:14:19] <Splarka>	I am tvtropeturnal
[18:14:24] *Splarka 	hates that site
[18:14:33] <^demon>	Simetrical: Some people in this channel don't sleep, I've noticed.
[18:14:48] <Nikerabbit>	what is nocturnal
[18:14:56] <^demon>	sleeps at night, instead of daytime.
[18:15:01] <^demon>	(ie: Owls)
[18:15:11] <^demon>	Wait, stupid. Awake at night
[18:15:14] <Splarka>	wat
[18:15:29] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[18:15:53] <Nikerabbit>	and Splarka is always at irc
[18:16:10] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Most people are diurnal, active during the day and sleep at night.
[18:16:39] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Circadian_rhythms
[18:16:50] *kim__ 	is nocturnal ;-)
[18:17:11] *Splarka 	is an extended crepuscular
[18:17:13] <kim__>	Splarka, zomg, tvtropeturnal.... if you hate that site, why are you strangely attracted to it?
[18:17:26] <Splarka>	it is worth it when I hook other people
[18:18:39] <charitwo>	Splarka: where do you go when you do that
[18:18:48] <Splarka>	6hr time limit
[18:18:52] <Splarka>	(cheap dialup)
[18:18:57] <charitwo>	o_O
[18:19:02] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) show only change lines in diff - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19716 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[18:21:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add a music wikimodule - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[18:22:50] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53251 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/aliases.txt: Follow up r53214: Add alias file too
[18:23:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) " A�ai Beta " internationalizion. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19705  (10roan.kattouw)
[18:26:10] <briMestone>	Thanks Everyone! its working now
[18:27:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Sorting order "Last modified" bug - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19717 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (diaa_abdelmoneim)
[18:28:44] <Simetrical>	ricky, this package maintainer is a clown.  Does Fedora have a way to impeach maintainers for being complete morons?
[18:29:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) missing permission error page for special page of abuse filter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19714  (10umherirrender_de.wp)
[18:31:52] <ricky>	Simetrical: I don't think so :-( sorry to hear that even upstream developers aren't having much luck convincing him to make the package sane.
[18:32:02] <Simetrical>	He's completely clueless.
[18:32:06] <Simetrical>	He doesn't know what a shared host is.
[18:32:18] <Simetrical>	He thinks keeping things in /usr/share is "separation of code and data".
[18:32:23] <ricky>	Technical discussions can probably be escalated to FESCo (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee) if needed though
[18:32:24] <Simetrical>	WTF?
[18:32:49] <Simetrical>	I doubt anyone would be impressed by a random upstream developer who's not even a Fedora user barging in and saying one of their maintainers is an idiot, sadly.
[18:33:28] <ricky>	Fedora packagers are supposed to take upstream very seriously, but I'm afraid we can't force everybody to be well behaved in that respect :-(
[18:33:31] <kim__>	Simetrical, you'd need to prove it with code ;-)
[18:34:06] <ricky>	If it does become escalated to FESCo or anything, I'm sure they would consider upstream's opionions with a lot of weight
[18:34:10] <Simetrical>	Okay, I've now gotten a four-line index.php that loads all files from the correct place without having to hack any code.
[18:34:34] <Simetrical>	Apparently without errors.
[18:34:55] *Splarka 	wonders why Simmy wants a better-functioning <s>bastard</s> package version
[18:35:04] <ricky>	 Nice!  If that's what it takes to convince him to unbreak the package, I'm all for it
[18:35:38] <Splarka>	I thought core devs hated the packages, especially supporting the crazy
[18:35:38] <Simetrical>	I'm not going to waste time preparing a patch, but the procedure is 1) create index.php in web root with: <?php define( 'MW_INSTALL_PATH', '/usr/share/mediawiki/' ); chdir( MW_INSTALL_PATH ); require_once( MW_INSTALL_PATH . 'index.php' );
[18:36:13] <Simetrical>	2) create api.php, img_auth.php, opensearch_desc.php, redirect.php, thumb.php, trackback.php similarly
[18:36:16] <ricky>	Splarka: I really can't blame them :-(
[18:37:04] <Simetrical>	3) Move skins/*/*.{css,js}, config, images to web root
[18:37:10] <^demon>	Splarka: It would be nice if the packages were somewhat sane. People install them assuming they'll work ok. The Debian mediawiki package is pretty ok, thankfully. It worked out of the box for me :)
[18:37:12] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Sorting order changes to "Last Modified" if one changes the thread page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19718 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (diaa_abdelmoneim)
[18:37:18] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) show only change lines in diff - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19716  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[18:37:22] <Simetrical>	Hmm, config/index.php will probably break.
[18:37:46] <ricky>	I think that was the issue I ran into when I tried using chdir and require
[18:37:54] <Simetrical>	So maybe keep config/ in /usr/share/mediawiki/ and make a stub config/index.php in the web root.
[18:38:17] <Simetrical>	Also, extensions assume they'll be installed web-accessible and tend to store CSS/JS files, so those will all break.
[18:38:26] <ricky>	Blah.
[18:38:28] <Simetrical>	You'd need to selectively copy those files when you install the extensions.
[18:38:37] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) show only change lines in diff - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19716  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[18:38:40] <ricky>	At this point, I think attempting to support the directory layout he wants is sounding more nad more insane.
[18:38:42] <Simetrical>	And there are probably some other things that assume $IP is in the web root, I just can't think of them.
[18:38:50] <Simetrical>	It wouldn't be insane if someone is willing to put in the work.
[18:39:04] <Simetrical>	He's apparently content to use a completely broken hack.
[18:39:12] <RoanKattouw>	It would be less insane to just use the right friggin' structure
[18:39:17] <RoanKattouw>	And maybe even easier
[18:39:22] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, putting source code in /usr/share/mediawiki is perfectly reasonable.
[18:39:30] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[18:39:31] <Simetrical>	It's just not possible for shared hosting, so we can't require it.
[18:40:33] <ricky>	By the way, just curious - does the symlinking approach I described in the bug sound as insane as well?  I was kind of curious as to what upstream's thought on that was
[18:40:42] <ricky>	Since that's basically how fedoraproject.org's wiki is currently setup
[18:41:07] <Simetrical>	Symlinking everything works fine.  But then the files are still all web-accessible.
[18:41:17] <Simetrical>	Which is harmless because of our coding conventions, except maybe for poorly-written extensions.
[18:41:30] <Simetrical>	But it's not maximally elegant or whatever, I guess.
[18:41:44] <ricky>	Ah.  I'll look at locking that down in Apache for our setup then
[18:42:12] <ricky>	The main issue here I think is - what is the upstream-recommended way of having multiple mediawiki instances using one set of source files?
[18:42:38] <Simetrical>	Just have LocalSettings.php use different databases based on the domain name it detects.
[18:42:45] <Simetrical>	That's how Wikipedia does it.
[18:43:10] <Simetrical>	So point everything to the same files.
[18:43:11] <ricky>	Now that I've seen all the issues discussed, that definitely seems a whole lot more elegant
[18:43:36] <ricky>	Wow.  Are some fragments of the LocalSettings.php that wikipedia uses to do that publicly available?
[18:43:42] <kim__>	I think mediawiki is a bit of a mess really as far as file layour is concerned? ;-)
[18:43:48] <RoanKattouw>	http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf
[18:43:55] <RoanKattouw>	ricky: ----^^
[18:43:57] <MrZ-man>	http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php
[18:44:06] <ricky>	Awesome, thanks!
[18:44:27] <Nikerabbit>	mdale: any luck? :o
[18:44:45] <CIA-58>	03ialex * r53252 10/trunk/phase3/skins/Vector.php: missing globals
[18:44:52] <mdale>	... lots of little merging things.. but .. getting there :) 
[18:44:55] <ricky>	I'll look into cleaning up our setup and then see if I can maybe convince the package maintainer to work with something similar.
[18:44:58] <Nikerabbit>	ialex: thanks
[18:45:36] <ricky>	Simetrical: Thank you again for commenting on the bug and everything.  Sorry if the experience left a bit of a bad taste, I promise all Fedora packagers aren't like this :-)
[18:46:20] <mdale>	... oky all merged up doing some tests and then will commit... 
[18:50:27] <Simetrical>	ricky, where's the code to turn the tarball into a Fedora package?  I can't figure out what the Fedora package puts where, and I don't have a Fedora box to check on.
[18:51:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Flood flag option on cs.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19589  (10dusan.koudela)
[18:51:28] <ricky>	Packages are described by a spec file - the mediawiki one is http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/mediawiki/devel/mediawiki.spec?view=markup
[18:52:08] <CIA-58>	03mrzman * r53253 10/trunk/extensions/IndexFunction/IndexFunction_body.php: Fix bug on PHP 5.3
[18:52:13] *Nikerabbit 	uses fedora
[18:52:14] <ricky>	So that plus the tarball plus any other sources (like the patch, in the same directory) are used to make the final package
[18:52:52] <Simetrical>	Okay, so they currently copy config/ and use symlinks for index.php and api.php.
[18:53:05] *RoanKattouw 	sighs
[18:53:06] <kim__>	ocaml texvc is STILL in use?
[18:53:07] <kim__>	zomg!
[18:53:09] <kim__>	^^;;
[18:53:11] <RoanKattouw>	That sentence pinged me
[18:53:19] <Simetrical>	What sentence?
[18:53:27] <RoanKattouw>	The one about the symlinks
[18:53:43] <FunPika>	O_o
[18:54:00] <ricky>	Hehe, weird
[18:54:16] <RoanKattouw>	No, it's not weird. I ping on "api"
[18:54:30] <RoanKattouw>	So sometimes something I don't care about pings me
[18:54:50] <Simetrical>	ricky, what happens to skins/?  I can't see any way that users can even get the CSS and JS.
[18:55:22] <ricky>	*sigh*  It's yet another thing that the package breaks by default (which I also mentioned on the bug)
[18:55:43] <ricky>	I honestly have no idea when the last time he tried doing an install from that package is.  It's completely riddled with bugs.
[18:56:49] <ricky>	The only reason I haven't filed a lot of them separately yet is that I to concentrate on getting rid of the patch first :-(
[18:58:17] <kim__>	Hmmm
[18:58:42] <kim__>	I do have some python installation code that can pull extensions from svn and add them to mediawiki, and other useful stuff like that...
[18:58:52] <kim__>	and it's designed for scripts...
[18:59:04] *kim__ 	offers, wondering if it'd be useful for ricky
[18:59:07] <ricky>	Simetrical: If a lot of these errors aren't worth your time to fix right now, please don't feel obliged :-/  I have a lot of wheedling and bug-filing left in me for that package yet :-)
[18:59:25] <Simetrical>	ricky, I'm posting on the bug right now with a detailed description of what should be done.
[19:00:25] <ricky>	Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated
[19:02:20] <Simetrical>	Maybe we should publish an official .deb that distributors can alter to suit their needs instead of having to make stuff up like this.
[19:02:26] <Simetrical>	I totally don't have the time for that, though.
[19:03:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add LAMP credit near the "Powered by MediaWiki" logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19099  (10stvrtg)
[19:03:56] <^demon>	Simetrical: The Debian package is actually fairly sane.
[19:05:08] *ricky 	should probably take a look at how other distros do things too
[19:06:01] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add LAMP credit near the "Powered by MediaWiki" logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19099  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:06:05] <^demon>	IIRC, the Debian one worked out-of-the-box for me.
[19:07:35] <ricky>	I wonder how they and other distros handle situations where an upgrade requires action to be taken (such as db updates).  
[19:12:24] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10rhalsell)
[19:12:57] <Simetrical>	ricky, you can run scripts on package updates, can't you?
[19:13:39] <Simetrical>	ricky, okay, I commented on the bug.  I probably sounded more hostile than I should have, but good grief.
[19:13:43] <ricky>	Yeah, but for something like running a db update without telling the user, a lot of people would consider that evil
[19:13:56] <Simetrical>	I don't know, why?
[19:14:21] <Simetrical>	It might cause a lot of downtime if your wiki is unreasonably large.
[19:14:38] <Simetrical>	If you upgrade the files without upgrading the DB, the wiki will just give fatal errors.
[19:14:47] <ricky>	I guess it's an action that is very hard to roll back, for example, and I guess it wouldn't solve the problem of telling the user that they're going to have downtime and such
[19:15:20] <Simetrical>	Well, if you don't do the DB update automatically, they'll *definitely* have downtime.
[19:15:29] <Simetrical>	Until they figure out they have to do it manually.
[19:15:42] <ricky>	Simetrical: Your comment doesn't seem hostile to me at all, by the way - thanks for giving the full outline of possibilities
[19:15:50] <Simetrical>	I'm pretty sure other packages do stuff to existing data when they upgrade.
[19:16:01] <Simetrical>	I mean, Firefox will upgrade the format of its databases silently when you use a new version, and so on.
[19:16:10] <kim__>	is there some way to add a warning "proceed yes/no" ?
[19:16:13] <ricky>	That's true, I guess.
[19:16:34] <kim__>	ln Simetrical's comment? I'm sort of interested in following this :-)
[19:16:45] <ricky>	I was asking about something like kim__ mentioned too - some sort of notification maybe even prior to upgrading that "this will require XX action on your part"
[19:16:58] <ricky>	kim__: The bug is at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484855 :-)
[19:16:58] <Simetrical>	kim__, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484855
[19:17:14] <Simetrical>	Notifications in package updates are *incredibly* obnoxious.
[19:17:34] <Simetrical>	Nothing like leaving a distribution upgrade to run for a few hours only to find out that it stopped ten minutes in and is waiting to know if it should take some trivial action you don't care about.
[19:17:42] *kim__ 	goes to read
[19:18:16] <ricky>	Simetrical: Heh, that's a good point
[19:18:30] <Simetrical>	It happens to me whenever I upgrade Ubuntu.
[19:18:50] <ricky>	The way it works with yum in Fedora is that for example, a yum install blah will ask you to confirm after telling you what it's going to do, but a yum -y install blah will just do it.
[19:18:53] <Simetrical>	Partly because I modified some files like /etc/my.cnf that any normal person would think you'd modify, but apparently in Debian you're not supposed to.
[19:19:04] <atglenn>	wunnerful
[19:19:21] <xiong>	so, how do i restore the unicode stuff, since parsing entities is not yet an option?
[19:19:39] <Simetrical>	Why can't default config go in /usr/share?
[19:19:48] <Simetrical>	xiong, um, revert all the pages you changed?
[19:20:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  (10xenowiki)
[19:20:10] <Simetrical>	You'd probably just want to delete all pages in the MediaWiki: namespace.
[19:20:20] <kim__>	Simetrical, dang... 
[19:20:26] <xiong>	Simetrical, the trouble being that the unicode got corrupted; that's why i rewrote them using entities
[19:20:28] <kim__>	dang dang...
[19:20:29] <kim__>	^^;;
[19:20:43] <Simetrical>	xiong, oh.  Then your setup is broken.  What sort of corruption?
[19:20:50] <ricky>	Simetrical: One reason I've heard for configs not going in /usr/share is that some people might mount /usr as read only from somewhere, for example
[19:20:54] <Simetrical>	Anyway, all package maintainers are morons, in my experience.  It's just a matter of degree.
[19:21:11] <Simetrical>	ricky, it's defaults.  It should only be upgraded on package upgrades, which require /usr to be writable anyway.
[19:21:21] <Simetrical>	Files in /etc should all be editable by the admin, IMO.
[19:22:04] <Simetrical>	So like /etc/my.cnf could include /usr/share/mysql/default.conf or whatever, and the rest of the file would just be commented-out suggested customizations by default.
[19:22:12] <xiong>	Simetrical, not sure i understand/know what/how system message funny chars got corrupted -- pls see http://beyondeuclid.com/wiki/Special:Allmessages
[19:22:29] <ricky>	Ah, defaults in /usr/share/mediawiki definitely sounds fine
[19:23:03] <xiong>	Simetrical, i did not "fix" all of them... here is a page showing both "fixed" and corrupt unicode: http://beyondeuclid.com/wiki/Image:Tipped-can-isometric.jpg
[19:23:19] <Simetrical>	ricky, I wasn't talking about MediaWiki here, actually.  I've never used packaged MediaWiki, so I have no idea how that works.
[19:23:33] <Simetrical>	But MySQL and some other things use /etc for defaults in Debian, and it's incredibly annoying.
[19:23:39] <ricky>	Oh yeah.
[19:23:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  (10xenowiki)
[19:24:01] <xiong>	just under the image is a sysmsg i "fixed" with a named entity that obviously doesn't display right; in the File history is a sysmsg i didn't touch, which is corrupt...
[19:27:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10Ruslik00)
[19:30:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) CGI:IRC web interface for Freenode's Wikimedia chat rooms - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18791  +comment (10stvrtg)
[19:30:53] <xiong>	so, Simetrical, what sort of corruption do you think that can be?
[19:30:58] <Simetrical>	xiong, okay, the bytes being output on your box are not UTF-8.  I'm going to guess your database is using a broken character set somehow.
[19:31:11] <xiong>	hm
[19:32:09] <CIA-58>	03mrzman * r53254 10/trunk/extensions/IndexFunction/IndexFunction_body.php: fix another PHP 5.3 bug from incorrect hook documentation
[19:33:09] <xiong>	Simetrical, i'm at my domain's cpanel; there doesn't seem to be any options under mysql for char set
[19:33:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  (10alfred.maghi)
[19:34:04] <Simetrical>	I'm not sure what they are.  U+2192 should be 0xe28592, but it seems to be output as 0x92dced.
[19:34:27] <Simetrical>	That's not a valid representation of a right arrow in arrow character set I've heard of.
[19:34:36] <Simetrical>	s/in arrow/in any/
[19:34:44] <xiong>	Simetrical, they all look alike in my browser: a black diamond with a query reversed out of it
[19:34:49] <Simetrical>	Yes.
[19:35:09] <Simetrical>	What character set are you using on your database?  SHOW CREATE TABLE page, copy the last line.
[19:35:21] <xiong>	?
[19:36:41] <Simetrical>	Okay, actually, to start with, why are you using MediaWiki 1.12.0?
[19:36:48] <reedy>	lol
[19:37:19] <Simetrical>	I guess you never upgraded it.
[19:37:25] <Simetrical>	Did the corruption always occur?
[19:37:28] <xiong>	Simetrical, i'm using 1.12.0 because it was the most current version at the time of install
[19:37:53] <Simetrical>	Well, anyway.  I don't know much about database character encodings.
[19:37:59] <Simetrical>	Do you have access to MySQL?
[19:38:00] <xiong>	i'm not convinced i can upgrade easily... it was some trouble getting it installed the first time and i needed help from tech support
[19:38:18] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) File history - not XHTML valid unicode sign - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19712  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[19:38:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Broken UTF-8 cutoff breaks display in some browsers - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[19:38:42] <xiong>	not sure... i have pretty wide control via cPanel... don't see any way to interact directly with a DB tho...
[19:38:57] <reedy>	phpMyAdmin?
[19:39:01] <reedy>	(not directly)
[19:39:13] <xiong>	i just created a couple of test DBs... no options given for setup tho
[19:39:23] <kim__>	xiong, check if the mysql charset is set to UTF8 at any rate ;-)
[19:39:33] <kim__>	xiong, can you get a command line?
[19:39:54] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53255 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.hooks.php: OptIn: Also show the Leave Beta / Try Beta link on top of Special:UsabilityInitiativeOptIn; also pull the body of personalUrls() out of the if block
[19:40:12] <xiong>	i'm at phpmyadmin...
[19:40:22] <kim__>	http://www.omegawiki.org/Development
[19:40:31] <kim__>	^_ don't do all of this, just look at step 4
[19:40:37] <kim__>	that's the way to set up mysql properly
[19:40:40] <xiong>	MySQL charset:  UTF-8 Unicode (utf8) 
[19:40:48] <kim__>	okay
[19:41:03] <kim__>	and the database charset?
[19:42:02] <kim__>	hmm, time for me to go cooking
[19:42:02] <xiong>	utf8_unicode_ci
[19:42:52] *kim__ 	scratches head.
[19:43:49] <xiong>	"unicode multilingual case insensitive"
[19:44:14] <kim__>	that's your collation
[19:44:19] <kim__>	should be fine...
[19:44:54] <xiong>	yah, seems reasonable to me, although that means very little
[19:45:25] <kim__>	I don't see why your db would be unhappy, really
[19:45:32] <kim__>	did you import it from somewhere?
[19:45:44] <kim__>	as in, did you set up the db from a file recently?
[19:45:49] <kim__>	or has it been around forever?
[19:46:01] <xiong>	the db is old, the wiki was set up several months ago
[19:46:05] <kim__>	kay
[19:46:14] <kim__>	how about the browser side of things?
[19:46:28] <Simetrical>	To test that, try just uploading a UTF-8 file and see if it works.
[19:46:31] <kim__>	does the browser work fine with other sites using utf8?
[19:46:32] <xiong>	however, it's not certain that mine host hasn't shuffled my entire hosting package from server to server or sth
[19:46:33] <Simetrical>	I doubt the server is mangling it.
[19:46:41] <kim__>	what simetrical just said :-)
[19:46:44] <Simetrical>	kim__, um, yes.  The error happens in all browsers.
[19:47:07] <Simetrical>	xiong, if you look in the database directly, do you see the broken characters there?
[19:47:07] <kim__>	xiong, so they could have borked your db recently?
[19:47:20] <kim__>	simetrical is faster than I can be ^^;
[19:47:26] <xiong>	er Simetrical what you say is reasonable but i'm so way stuck... where would i get a utf-8 file and where would you want me to put it?
[19:47:41] <xiong>	kim__, i wouldn't put it past mine host...
[19:47:52] <Simetrical>	xiong, never mind that, it's unlikely.  Try looking in your database to see if the chars are invalid there.
[19:48:05] <kim__>	Simetrical, that can be trickier than you think
[19:48:14] <^demon>	almaghi: Suggestions to apply BZ patches to extensions isn't a great idea IMHO. Better to just wait and update the docs if/when a patch gets merged.
[19:48:14] <kim__>	lots of stuff isn't quite up to utf-8 snuff yet
[19:48:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  (10brion)
[19:48:19] *Simetrical 	notes with great interest that an Internet Explorer developer posted a question to www-style involving a test case with <!doctype html>
[19:48:21] <kim__>	so you sometimes get random breakages
[19:48:31] <Simetrical>	kim__, that's not a very useful statement of the problem, however.
[19:48:31] <kim__>	even across terminal emulators and etc...
[19:48:33] <^demon>	Simetrical: Link?
[19:48:36] <xiong>	bew_test?
[19:48:47] <Simetrical>	^demon, a post about an hour ago by Sylvain Galineau, check the archive.
[19:48:59] <kim__>	Simetrical, just saying you need to be paranioud ;)
[19:49:06] <kim__>	paranoid too
[19:49:08] <Simetrical>	Sure, but first try the more likely solution.
[19:49:25] <xiong>	wait, mebbe problem
[19:50:28] <kim__>	Simetrical, *nod*
[19:51:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  (10xenowiki)
[19:51:44] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/wiki/Image:Beyondeuclid-db-shot1.png
[19:51:57] <xiong>	look at the 'collation' column
[19:53:00] <kim__>	latin1 swedish?
[19:53:03] <kim__>	zomg
[19:53:14] <kim__>	not a good sign
[19:53:24] <RoanKattouw>	kim__: That's MySQL's default collation
[19:53:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) HTML5 (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19719 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Page rendering; (innocentkiller)
[19:53:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Tracking bug (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2007  (10innocentkiller)
[19:53:40] <kim__>	RoanKattouw, *nod*
[19:53:51] <xiong>	kim__, does it seem as tho this is the problem?
[19:54:23] <kim__>	well, it certainly doesn't make sense in combination with utf-8 data
[19:54:36] <Simetrical>	I'm pretty sure you want to use either utf8 or binary collation.
[19:54:39] <kim__>	check the encoding of the different tables?
[19:54:43] <Simetrical>	I don't know if you can just alter the table and have it work, though.
[19:55:06] <kim__>	xiong, you do have a backup of your database, right? :-)
[19:55:26] <xiong>	an old one...
[19:55:36] <kim__>	hmm, restore it someplace, and compare?
[19:55:37] <xiong>	maybe has the same issue, too
[19:55:38] <kim__>	if you can
[19:56:02] <xiong>	dunno where to restore... i'd have to backup the live DB, restore the old
[19:56:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) extension to list pages with the most revisors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19632  (10alfred.maghi)
[19:56:40] <kim__>	xiong, hmph. I have a bunch of computers around, I forget not everyone does ^^;;
[19:56:57] <xiong>	i'm willing to believe i'm scrammed -- i expect that changing the collation will totally screw everything, right?
[19:57:05] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Enhance recent changes patrol flags (flagging for rollback etc.) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1596  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:57:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Mark edits suspicious, for review - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1189  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:57:27] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) individual revision tagging categorizing and sorting - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4288  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:57:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Mark edits suspicious, for review - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1189  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:57:42] <RoanKattouw>	xiong: It might, hence the backup
[19:58:10] <xiong>	let me do a current backup warts an all, now
[19:59:53] <kim__>	okay
[19:59:55] <kim__>	dinnertime here
[19:59:56] <kim__>	:-)
[19:59:59] <Simetrical>	I doubt it would work.  You could try converting and then reimporting the data, perhaps.
[20:01:29] <Nikerabbit>	xiong: are you the one with encoding problems?
[20:01:50] <Nikerabbit>	xiong: have you checked there isn't any mb_* overloads?
[20:02:01] <xiong>	Nikerabbit, i'm the one with the encoding problems
[20:02:14] <xiong>	don't know what an mb_* overload is
[20:02:20] <Nikerabbit>	xiong: check phpinfo();
[20:02:26] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, don't those give errors on install?
[20:02:33] <Simetrical>	That's a good thought, though.
[20:02:39] <Simetrical>	Best to check before messing with the DB.
[20:02:42] <xiong>	i have just completed a backup of my wiki's DB, so presumably we can do anything grotesque to it without fear
[20:02:45] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: because special:Version is also corrupt
[20:02:54] <Nikerabbit>	that comes directly from the file
[20:03:06] <Simetrical>	Aha.
[20:03:07] <Simetrical>	You're right.
[20:03:20] <xiong>	previous backup on 2009-05-27 but there haven't been many changes made since.. shall i just try restoring from the old backup?
[20:03:38] <Simetrical>	xiong, no, Nikerabbit is right, it's probably not a DB problem.
[20:04:14] <Simetrical>	xiong, create a file containing "<?php phpinfo();", no quotes.  Put it in your web directory somewhere and give a link here.
[20:04:20] <xiong>	? not a db problem ? but as the screenshot shows, there's this weird latin swedish stuff?
[20:04:31] <xiong>	Simetrical, will do...
[20:04:35] <Simetrical>	Yes, but it's also on Special:Version, as Nikerabbit points out.  That's not taken from the DB, it's directly from the file.
[20:05:40] <xiong>	this? http://beyondeuclid.com/wiki/Special:Version -- ha ha, all the devs names are fubar'd
[20:06:27] <Nikerabbit>	including mine ;)
[20:06:40] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: why aren't you in the list?
[20:06:49] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, what list?
[20:06:54] <Simetrical>	Oh, that list.
[20:06:57] <Simetrical>	It's 1.12.
[20:07:03] <Simetrical>	I didn't add myself until later, I think.
[20:07:07] <Nikerabbit>	oh, didn't read that part
[20:07:12] <Simetrical>	I'm in trunk.
[20:07:30] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53256 10/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/: Added folder for new FundraiserPortal extension.
[20:07:47] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) hewiktionary pages-articles.xml dump corrupted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18651  +comment (10tfinc)
[20:07:50] *^demon 	isn't on this list either, trunk or otherwise :)
[20:08:22] <Simetrical>	It's because we have no policy on when to add yourself.
[20:08:33] <Simetrical>	So everyone is reluctant lest they seem arrogant.
[20:08:45] <Nikerabbit>	yeah, that's kinda bad
[20:08:51] <Nikerabbit>	I didn't even add myself to it
[20:08:54] *xiong 	still working...
[20:08:58] <Nikerabbit>	it was avar who added us both
[20:09:16] <RoanKattouw>	I don't think that everyone who's ever committed to MW should be on i
[20:09:28] <RoanKattouw>	The list shouldn't grow too large
[20:09:35] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: Exactly, hence CREDITS
[20:10:50] <xiong>	er, Simetrical, i'm confused... seems to me that if i put your little file in some place, .htaccess will redirect any link to some wiki page?
[20:10:58] <Simetrical>	xiong, what?
[20:11:16] <Simetrical>	xiong, don't put it anywhere that's subject to redirects.
[20:11:23] <xiong>	all hits to beyondeuclid.com go to the wiki
[20:11:26] <Simetrical>	Put in in your web root or something.
[20:11:30] <xiong>	hmm
[20:11:36] <Simetrical>	Then put it in /w.
[20:11:39] <xiong>	let me fiddle with this
[20:12:49] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: :o addHtml( wfMsg() ) ?
[20:12:55] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53257 10/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/ (3 files): Added initial files for FundraiserPortal extension.
[20:13:47] <xiong>	sim, success: http://beyondeuclid.com/test/sim-1
[20:13:55] <xiong>	would you like me to make that executable?
[20:14:00] <Simetrical>	xiong, the file name needs to end in .php.
[20:14:06] <Simetrical>	Executability doesn't matter.
[20:14:10] <xiong>	k
[20:14:41] <xiong>	done
[20:14:47] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/test/sim-1.php
[20:15:01] <CIA-58>	03btongminh * r53258 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/api/ApiEditPage.php): (bug 19040) Fix prependtext and appendtext in combination with section parameter in action=edit
[20:15:22] <Simetrical>	Nikerabbit, any ideas?  http://beyondeuclid.com/test/sim-1.php
[20:15:32] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) API action=edit&appendtext doesn't work with sections - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19040  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[20:15:33] <Simetrical>	The evil things seem to be off.
[20:15:37] <Simetrical>	Perhaps it's the files that are corrupted?
[20:18:23] <Nikerabbit>	sounds unlikely
[20:21:21] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: does the server send correct character encoding in http headers?
[20:21:27] <Simetrical>	Yes, I checked that.
[20:21:54] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53259 10/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/FundraiserPortal.hooks.php: Added support for the Modern skin.
[20:22:39] <Nikerabbit>	hmm
[20:23:00] <Nikerabbit>	what could it be then.. apache doing something weird?
[20:23:10] <Nikerabbit>	has he tested plain text files and simple php files?
[20:23:35] <xiong>	tell you what... link me to a test file; i'll download it and upload it to the test directory
[20:23:51] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53260 10/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/FundraiserPortal.i18n.php: Adjusted the description.
[20:24:04] <svip>	Man.
[20:24:13] <svip>	runJobs.php certainly takes a long time.
[20:24:20] <xiong>	or for that matter, i can create an FTP account for you guys
[20:24:27] <Simetrical>	xiong, try copying includes/SpecialVersion.php to the test directory with a different name, no ".php" at the end.
[20:24:41] <xiong>	erm, k
[20:25:21] <svip>	Simetrical: What is the test directory for?
[20:25:38] <Simetrical>	svip, I just want a copy of the source code I can look at directly to see if the file is corrupted.
[20:25:57] <svip>	Oh.
[20:26:03] <svip>	Just wondering what it was for though.
[20:26:07] <svip>	Unrelated <_< >_>
[20:26:20] <Simetrical>	xiong's site is messed up.
[20:26:30] <svip>	Dang.
[20:28:10] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/test/wasSpecialVersion
[20:29:39] <xiong>	that does not look quite right in my browser
[20:30:26] <xiong>	it doesn't look right when i read the copy on my local disk
[20:30:35] <xiong>	i'm checking out the dev's names
[20:30:40] <xiong>	devs'
[20:31:38] <xiong>	does it appear that mine host has just hammered my entire install?
[20:32:08] <Simetrical>	It seems like the files are wrong, for whatever reason.
[20:32:15] <xiong>	um
[20:32:16] <Simetrical>	Try reuploading 1.12 fresh.
[20:32:21] <xiong>	well
[20:32:35] <Simetrical>	Come to think of it, of course, the default messages aren't stored in the database unless you change them, those are from the files too.
[20:32:43] <xiong>	yah
[20:32:57] <Simetrical>	Just copy your existing install somewhere for backup and then copy all the latest 1.12 files.
[20:33:00] <Simetrical>	You don't have to reinstall.
[20:33:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[20:33:28] <xiong>	well, using cpanel i can make a complete backup of the whole site
[20:33:42] <Nikerabbit>	if you figure it out, please let me know the cause for when similar issues comes up next time
[20:33:48] <xiong>	home directory, mysql db, etc
[20:34:06] <xiong>	let me make a complete, full backup
[20:34:32] <Nikerabbit>	night
[20:34:49] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53261 10/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/FundraiserPortal.php: Fixed mediawiki extension page link.
[20:36:18] <CIA-58>	03raymond * r53262 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/ (MediaWikiExtensions.php mediawiki-defines.txt): Add Fundraiser Portal to translatewiki
[20:38:09] <xiong>	Simetrical, i have now got a complete home directory backup; also a DB backup -- what exactly should i scram now?
[20:38:57] <Simetrical>	xiong, get a copy of the 1.12 files from mediawiki.org and copy them over your existing /w.  Leave any existing files that aren't present in the download in place, some of those are essential.
[20:39:38] <xiong>	Simetrical, will this not also overwrite files i've modified? not that this is fatal since i have the backup
[20:39:55] <xiong>	i'd better start the download from mw.org
[20:40:23] <Simetrical>	xiong, if you've modified any files, then yes, that will be overwritten.  You shouldn't be doing that, or if you do you should be using version control.
[20:40:35] <Simetrical>	LocalSettings.php and similar files are not included in the download and won't be overwritten.
[20:40:38] <Simetrical>	Same for images, etc.
[20:40:55] <Simetrical>	Those are created during installation and use of the wiki.
[20:41:14] <xiong>	http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.12/mediawiki-1.12.0.tar.gz  --?
[20:41:37] <xiong>	there are so many other stuff...
[20:42:24] <Simetrical>	xiong, get this: http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.12/mediawiki-1.12.4.tar.gz
[20:42:29] <Simetrical>	It's the same as what you have, but with security fixes.
[20:42:38] <Simetrical>	And some bug fixes.
[20:42:52] <Simetrical>	You could do 1.12.0 if you want, but it's inadvisable, since that has known XSS and so on.
[20:44:56] <xiong>	k, i have dl 1.12.4 and unzipped it... now copy all to /w ?
[20:45:07] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53263 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/TrustedXFF/ (TrustedXFF.php generate.php update): Rearranging some paths so the output file goes into $IP/cache by default, rather than mixing in with the extensions checkout.
[20:45:55] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53264 10/branches/wmf-deployment/maintenance/commandLine.inc: Adjust paths in the Wikimedia-specific command-line config hacks. Separating out most of the custom config files...
[20:46:04] <Simetrical>	xiong, yes, so that you overwrite the existing files.
[20:46:27] <xiong>	i don't have any version control, or don't know about it... i'm relying on my local machine backup in case this all goes south
[20:46:59] <xiong>	here goes...
[20:47:45] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53265 10/branches/wmf-deployment/includes/DefaultSettings.php: Adding "-wmf" suffix on $wgVersion
[20:47:46] <xiong>	... working
[20:48:14] <CIA-58>	03btongminh * r53266 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/api/ApiEditPage.php): (bug 19090) Added watchlist parameter, deprecated watch and unwatch parameter in action=edit
[20:48:16] <xiong>	ooo... estimated 30 min upload time...
[20:49:11] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Watchlist settings of ApiEditPage are insufficient - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19090  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[20:49:28] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10brion)
[20:50:12] <xiong>	Simetrical, i'll let you know when upload completes
[20:50:49] <kim__>	xiong good luck :-)
[20:53:17] <xiong>	ty kim__ 
[20:55:29] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) individual revision tagging categorizing and sorting - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4288  +comment (10dogshed)
[20:55:55] <avar>	Simetrical, Nikerabbit: If you want to Special:Version better it would be neat to have something like this: http://git-scm.com/about
[20:56:05] <avar>	along with something that pages it like Special:Preferences
[20:56:17] <avar>	so you could click on extensions, authors, copyright etc
[20:56:26] <Simetrical>	avar, great, so we can have people competing for trivial commits?
[20:56:33] <Simetrical>	Let's let people keep adding themselves.
[20:58:07] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Search on the Wikimedia UK chapter wiki does not work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19720 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (mediawiki)
[20:59:53] *werdna 	hasn't bothered adding himself yet
[21:00:53] <RoanKattouw>	brion: Do you have objections against adding returntoquery= to Special:Userlogin? I'm worried that it could be used to do &returnto=Foo&returntoquery=title=Special:Userlogout , but that's not a link MW itself would generate in practice. Thoughts?
[21:01:25] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53267 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/images/page-fade.png: Improved smoothness of gradient.
[21:01:33] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, we can just special-case UserLogout like we do for redirects and such.
[21:01:36] <brion>	RoanKattouw: do we want a separate param for that or just append the query bits onto returnto?
[21:01:54] <RoanKattouw>	brion: The former doesn't work because returnto only accepts titles
[21:02:07] <RoanKattouw>	AFAICT it even does something along the lines of "Return to [[$1]]"
[21:02:26] <brion>	is there any reason we can't, say, change the processing to whatever we want?
[21:02:39] <RoanKattouw>	Sure
[21:02:45] <CIA-58>	03simetrical * r53268 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialVersion.php: Fix bug, werdna not on Special:Version
[21:02:57] <RoanKattouw>	But I like the idea of a separate parameter because it changes as little as possible
[21:03:14] <RoanKattouw>	And it's easier to implement :)
[21:03:19] <Simetrical>	You could just check for a ? in the returnto parameter.
[21:03:35] <Simetrical>	Don't have to change anything.
[21:03:45] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah, then you'd have to split the string at that point
[21:03:51] <Simetrical>	oh noes!
[21:03:55] <RoanKattouw>	It seems cleaner to just do an extra parameter
[21:04:12] <Simetrical>	Well, whatever, who cares.
[21:04:14] <Simetrical>	Either way.
[21:04:46] <RoanKattouw>	Anyway, my greatest concern is returntoquery=title=Special:Userlogout , but that doesn't happen in practice
[21:04:53] <RoanKattouw>	I guess I was a little too paranoid there
[21:11:23] <avar>	Simetrical: Better than the lame "am I precious enough to be on the zomg special:version list" thingy. At least you'll get more patches with my proposal:)
[21:11:43] <Simetrical>	avar, well, maybe.
[21:12:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add a music wikimodule - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189  (10joergens.mic)
[21:12:40] <Simetrical>	http://www.ohloh.net/p/mediawiki/contributors
[21:12:54] <Simetrical>	That counts commits to extensions and l10n, though, I think.
[21:13:12] <avar>	It counts everything in the mediawiki svn repository
[21:13:28] <Simetrical>	Whee, I'm down to 17th place.
[21:13:33] <RoanKattouw>	No, it counts everything in trunk
[21:13:42] <RoanKattouw>	Excluding e.g. branches
[21:14:13] <Simetrical>	Because we have so many commits to branches.
[21:14:16] <kim_bruning>	siebrand comes in second place
[21:14:21] <kim_bruning>	mostly due to i18n
[21:14:22] <kim_bruning>	nuts
[21:14:57] <werdna>	Where am I?
[21:15:02] *werdna 	looks
[21:15:23] <werdna>	15
[21:15:37] <kim_bruning>	ok, I'm an order of magnitude less productive than the frontrunners
[21:15:40] <kim_bruning>	geez
[21:15:57] <kim_bruning>	also *sigh*
[21:16:00] <kim_bruning>	well, that's life
[21:16:37] <xiong>	Simetrical, upload complete!
[21:17:30] <xiong>	special:version now correct
[21:18:28] <xiong>	and the default sysmsgs all seem to be okay, too
[21:18:52] <xiong>	now, for the $64 question: what, if anything, must i restore from backup to take me back to where i was?
[21:19:23] <kim_bruning>	lessee
[21:19:29] <kim_bruning>	extensions (or install them anew)
[21:19:36] <kim_bruning>	and your database
[21:19:37] <kim_bruning>	and...
[21:20:08] <kim_bruning>	the images directory
[21:20:28] <xiong>	??? kim_bruning, sorry, but not sure that's right
[21:21:03] <xiong>	you're coming in, in the middle -- my extensions seem to be correctly installed, the wiki content appears untouched
[21:21:55] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53269 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/ContactPageFundraiser/: Copy ContactPageFundraiser to wmf-deployment branch from svn+ssh://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/branches/ContactPageFundraiser
[21:22:25] <xiong>	obviously, i have to delete all my crude hack not-fixes for sysmsgs; anything else, Simetrical?
[21:22:56] <Simetrical>	xiong, no, it should be fine.
[21:23:00] <Simetrical>	Unless you hacked the old files.
[21:23:05] <Simetrical>	Then you'll have to re-hack them.
[21:23:23] <kim_bruning>	xiong, I guess you put the images directory back already
[21:23:24] <xiong>	er, the awful thing is, i'm not sure which old files i might have hacked...
[21:23:29] <kim_bruning>	so if the db is up too, you should be fine
[21:23:39] <xiong>	i didn't touch the images one way or the other
[21:23:47] <kim_bruning>	check special:version to see if anything smells funny
[21:24:05] <kim_bruning>	oh, you already did that
[21:24:07] <kim_bruning>	meh
[21:24:14] <brion>	http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:00000218.gif
[21:24:18] <kim_bruning>	you're too smart for me ;0)
[21:24:53] <Simetrical>	xiong, do a diff against the current files if you like.
[21:25:19] <Duduman>	brion question: Why do we keep the image redirects? Why not just replace the name?
[21:25:26] <Duduman>	or is there gonna be bots for that?
[21:25:27] <kim_bruning>	brion, that's a terrifying prospect!
[21:25:50] <RoanKattouw>	Duduman: For the same reason we keep regular redirects
[21:25:54] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53270 10/trunk/phase3/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
[21:25:54] <CIA-58>	Add returntoquery= parameter to Special:Userlogin which adds a query string to
[21:25:54] <CIA-58>	the "Return to" link. Also using this parameter in the Log in and Log out links
[21:25:54] <CIA-58>	on top of the screen, so that people who click Log in from e.g. an edit page
[21:25:54] <CIA-58>	will be taken back to the edit page rather than to the page view.
[21:26:00] <RoanKattouw>	It makes reverting a move so much easier, for one thing
[21:26:18] <Duduman>	how so?
[21:26:32] <Duduman>	Is there like a FAQ for the tool
[21:26:44] <Duduman>	You probably get the same questions again and again
[21:26:45] <xiong>	Simetrical, i have no idea how to do a diff, in your sense -- it would be something i'd do locally, to the files stored on my machine, between the fresh download and the backup -- so much i understand -- but i don't know what facility linux provides for such a thing
[21:27:07] <Simetrical>	xiong, in Linux, you can just do: diff -R dir1 dir2
[21:27:10] <Simetrical>	Or any Unix.
[21:27:19] <Simetrical>	At least with GNU utilities, don't know if -R is standard.
[21:27:34] <Simetrical>	diff -Ru might be more readable.
[21:27:58] <Duduman>	BTW, just checking, could someone edit a page and see if they have add media wizard working? On test wiki I mean
[21:28:13] <xiong>	Simetrical, i will try that -- right now tho, i'm going through and deleting all my stupid entity fixes
[21:30:18] *kim_bruning 	compares people on ohloh
[21:30:21] <kim_bruning>	dang that's cool
[21:33:34] <kim_bruning>	GNU utilities are much cooler than you think.... as I discovered recently when trying to search a 1 gig log file on windows. 
[21:33:55] <kim_bruning>	(windows tools Don't Like That (tm).... gnu grep does it lefthanded ;-) )
[21:34:44] <Simetrical>	What's that git command to make a summary of commits
[21:34:48] <Simetrical>	"
[21:34:49] <Simetrical>	?
[21:35:05] <Simetrical>	There's a command to do that, give a list of names and number of commits.
[21:35:59] <TheUni>	git shortlog ?
[21:36:07] <Simetrical>	Yeah, just found it.
[21:36:30] <Simetrical>	Interesting, it gives different counts from ohloh.
[21:36:37] <Simetrical>	Oh, I'm in phase3.
[21:36:39] <Simetrical>	That's good.
[21:37:11] <Simetrical>	Hmm.
[21:37:21] <Simetrical>	I wonder if I can persuade it to skip commits that only touch localization files?
[21:37:55] <Simetrical>	Wait, no, this counts all of trunk.
[21:37:59] <TheUni>	pipe to grep
[21:38:12] <Simetrical>	It doesn't list the changed files.
[21:38:14] <Simetrical>	Just the counts.
[21:38:18] <Simetrical>	Aha, now this looks quite different.
[21:38:56] <CIA-58>	03tomasz * r53271 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Export.php: Marking redirects in XML
[21:39:34] <Simetrical>	I'm #11 on this one if you account for the duplication of Brion and Tim (why do they have two commit names?), and #7 or so if you omit localization people.
[21:39:43] <Simetrical>	That sounds more reasonable.
[21:39:47] <brion>	one name from sourceforge CVS
[21:39:49] <brion>	one name on our SVN
[21:39:55] <Simetrical>	You just had to change it, didn't you?
[21:40:03] <tomaszf>	one name to bind them all ?
[21:40:05] <tomaszf>	;)
[21:40:07] <brion>	:)
[21:40:18] <Simetrical>	It's "one name to bring them all and in the darkness bind them", kthx.
[21:40:31] *Simetrical 	had that memorized in 4th grade.  \o/
[21:40:50] <tomaszf>	nice
[21:41:05] <werdna>	tomaszf: how much do you know about Milan? :)
[21:41:12] <werdna>	We found cheap Ryanair flights at ridiculous times.
[21:41:18] <tomaszf>	i knew enough to leave after a couple of hours
[21:41:34] <werdna>	really, not much good?
[21:42:15] <kim_bruning>	define cheap
[21:42:58] <kim_bruning>	but like, dang, I need to find time to improve my ranking in svn, I'm WAY too low :-P
[21:43:14] <werdna>	kim_bruning: 50 pounds or so each way
[21:43:52] <kim_bruning>	ryanair can be cheaper yet
[21:43:59] <kim_bruning>	must be tourist season
[21:44:21] <xiong>	Simetrical, -r; -R is invalid
[21:44:45] <Simetrical>	xiong, they're totally inconsistent about that.
[21:44:51] <Simetrical>	Some demand -r, some demand -R, some accept both.
[21:44:53] <Simetrical>	Bleh.
[21:45:09] <Simetrical>	chown demands -R, for instance.
[21:45:24] <xiong>	well, diff -ru did sth -- i have no idea what, about a thousand screenfulls of text
[21:45:50] <xiong>	zork grand inquisitor??????
[21:46:12] <Simetrical>	xiong, you can add | less to page through it.
[21:46:26] <Simetrical>	It will give you the differences between each corresponding file, in theory.
[21:46:52] <xiong>	ah, i think it's actually showing the differences themselves, character by character; i need to constrain this to filenames only
[21:46:56] <Simetrical>	avar, you know, one reason commit counts work better in git is because stuff like reverts don't end up in the main tree as often.  :)
[21:46:59] <xiong>	i'll mess with it
[21:47:12] <Simetrical>	-q will just say whether they differ.
[21:47:32] <xiong>	yah, better
[21:49:29] <xiong>	now the trouble is, there are a gazillion different files
[21:50:03] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53272 10/trunk/extensions/UploadBlacklist/ (. UploadBlacklist.php): 
[21:50:03] <CIA-58>	Commit little UploadBlacklist extension we've had live for a few years but apparently forgot to commit. ;)
[21:50:03] <CIA-58>	It's pretty hacky, requiring sysadmins to add SHA-1 hashes to an array (haha! yeah that's scalable)
[21:50:03] <CIA-58>	Should get rewritten with a DB and a UI and integrated to core at some point.
[21:51:04] <xiong>	this sort of thing: 
[21:51:07] <xiong>	Files mediawiki-1.12.4/includes/api/ApiQueryCategoryMembers.php and w-backup/includes/api/ApiQueryCategoryMembers.php differ
[21:51:15] <xiong>	i'm going to bet i don't want to try to fix that
[21:51:52] <kim_bruning>	maybe you've got slightly different mw versions?
[21:51:59] <kim_bruning>	(for the diff, I mean?)
[21:52:02] <xiong>	i also smell a very long process of reconstruction -- have to print out the whole list of diffs and attack them case-by-case
[21:52:12] <kim_bruning>	xiong, did you actually make that many changes?
[21:52:20] <xiong>	kim_bruning, yes, Simetrical said, use 1.12.4
[21:52:42] <kim_bruning>	xiong, so in that case, diff is going to obscure what things you changed, right?
[21:52:47] <Simetrical>	Ah, yes, that will cause differences.
[21:52:59] <Simetrical>	Try getting a 1.12.0 copy to figure out what you changed.
[21:53:00] <kim_bruning>	xiong, how about downloading the exact version of mediawiki that you had before 
[21:53:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) extension to list pages with the most revisors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19632  +comment (10alfred.maghi)
[21:53:03] <Simetrical>	It will also show up the file corruption, though.
[21:53:05] <kim_bruning>	xiong, then compare with that
[21:53:08] <Simetrical>	Are you sure you hacked the files at all?
[21:53:10] <xiong>	i know i hacked up a couple of files but not many -- most of the actual file diddling i did to a new skin, 'scenic', and of course localsettings
[21:53:23] <kim_bruning>	xiong, in that case, you can constrain your search ;-)
[21:54:09] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53273 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added optional simplified search in header configured using$wgVectorUseSimpleSearch.
[21:54:13] <xiong>	no, really, i don't know what i changed -- i wrote out a very complete change log when i was doing that stuff, and kept it current -- on my local machine, my *old* local machine, now inaccessible
[21:55:28] <CIA-58>	03brion * r53274 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/UploadBlacklist/: Merge live ext from trunk
[21:55:50] <xiong>	Simetrical, i will dl 1.12.0 and do the diff against that -- but anyway, this looks like a long stretch of grunt work and right now, i have to labor for the filthy lucre -- ty for the help -- my original problem is now fixed and now i just have to mop up the mess left behind
[21:56:05] <rainman-sr>	btw, TrevorParscal you seen https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19676
[21:56:56] <xiong>	gtg now, ty all
[21:57:53] <TrevorParscal>	rainman-sr: wtf! that was fixed ages ago....
[21:58:00] <TrevorParscal>	looking at it in IE6 right now
[21:58:02] <TrevorParscal>	looks great
[21:58:08] <rainman-sr>	but it's not live?
[21:58:18] <RoanKattouw>	One of the many fixes that haven't gone live yet then?
[21:58:24] <TrevorParscal>	yeah
[21:58:30] <TrevorParscal>	hmm
[21:58:38] <TrevorParscal>	those are going live today I think
[21:58:48] <rainman-sr>	oki, i cannot really test stuff that's not live with ie6 so i filed that
[21:59:02] <RoanKattouw>	Try it on prototype.wikimedia.org
[22:00:31] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) IE6 compatibility for new search UI - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19676  +comment (10tparscal)
[22:00:33] <rainman-sr>	aye that looks much better :)
[22:00:36] <TrevorParscal>	:)
[22:02:29] <picillo>	anyone have any issues when installing/setting up mediawiki for the first time and it doens't recognize that mysql is running?
[22:05:24] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53275 10/trunk/phase3/includes/DefaultSettings.php: Added default setting for $wgVectorUseSimpleSearch.
[22:07:45] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53276 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/ (main-ltr.css main-rtl.css): Adjusted the style of simple search.
[22:08:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add a music wikimodule - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[22:12:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Diffs of small changes can be misleading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19092  summary; +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[22:14:48] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53277 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/ (images/search-fade.png main-ltr.css): Added a background image to the simple search box and adjusted the sizing and spacing a bit.
[22:16:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Optional special page listing boilerplates - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19433  (10alfred.maghi)
[22:17:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) <includeonly> is broken inside <ref> tags - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19168  +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[22:18:52] <lokkju_wrk_>	I'm trying to download the OpenID extension from mediawiki.org, but it keeps erring out with a message about not being able to contact the source repository.  ideas?
[22:19:36] <Simetrical>	lokkju_wrk_, you'd need to ask in #wikimedia-tech, they're the only ones who can fix that.
[22:19:52] <str4nd>	Or just poke brion here ;)
[22:20:00] <Simetrical>	Yeah, that might work.
[22:20:24] <brion>	get it from svn
[22:20:47] <Simetrical>	Well, that's a workaround.
[22:21:00] <Simetrical>	Should work, of course. :)
[22:21:07] <lokkju_wrk_>	I'd be happy with an external link, or the svn addy - the plugin page lists neither
[22:21:46] <Simetrical>	lokkju_wrk_, http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/trunk/extensions/OpenID/, or use branches/REL1_15/ instead of trunk/ for the 1.15 version.
[22:21:56] <Simetrical>	Or REL1_14 for 1.14, etc.
[22:22:06] <lokkju_wrk_>	thx
[22:23:05] <Simetrical>	lokkju_wrk_, [[Extension:OpenID]] does give a Subversion link, BTW.
[22:23:19] <lokkju_wrk_>	Simetrical, then I missed it.  hmm
[22:24:38] <lokkju_wrk_>	hmm....  http://svn.mediawiki.org isn't working for me
[22:26:01] <CIA-58>	03tparscal * r53278 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/images/search.png: Made the icon a little better looking.
[22:29:10] <lokkju_wrk_>	ah hah, needs mediawiki after svnroot
[22:29:11] <avar>	Nikerabbit: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Potlatch/Translation
[22:29:13] <avar>	Nikerabbit: this is fun:)
[22:29:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add a music wikimodule - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189  +comment (10martinfisch)
[22:35:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) API action=help should have anchors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19721 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (roan.kattouw)
[22:36:57] <Doink9731>	I'm having an issue at my Wiki, omgmod.com/wiki, where the recent changes page won't load unless I clear my cache. I'm using Version 1.13.3. Will upgrading to 1.15 help? I recently got Firefox 3.5. Could that be an issue? Any help on this is greatly appriciated.
[22:39:37] <Simetrical>	What does "won't load" mean?
[22:39:41] <Simetrical>	And what does "clear my cache" mean?
[22:39:55] <Doink9731>	Delete my history on my browser
[22:40:12] <Doink9731>	And won't load means the Javascript doesn't load... Let me double check
[22:40:58] <CIA-58>	03catrope * r53279 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/ (OptIn.hooks.php OptIn.i18n.php SpecialOptIn.php): (log message trimmed)
[22:40:58] <CIA-58>	OptIn:
[22:40:58] <CIA-58>	* Allow anons to see Special:UsabilityOptIn and request login only when they click the green button
[22:40:58] <CIA-58>	* Return straight to the "Welcome to Beta" confirmation page from the login form
[22:40:58] <CIA-58>	* Include query string in "Return to ..." link and in red button target
[22:41:02] <CIA-58>	* Differentiate red button caption between logged-in and anonymous users
[22:41:04] <CIA-58>	* No longer pass the returnto target as a subpage param, but use from= and fromquery= ; subpage param still works though
[22:43:22] <Doink9731>	The Javascript doesn't load, and I just noticed this is only when I'm logged in to my Admin account. I got it just fine when I wasn't logged in.
[22:43:39] <Doink9731>	Any idea what might be causing this?
[22:49:41] <Doink9731>	And I now know it isn't my browser because it does the same thing in IE as Firefox
[22:53:47] <CIA-58>	03siebrand * r53280 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/Translate.php: Group readerfeedback extensions on Special:Translate
[22:57:10] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Addition of "LIKE" parameter to doQuery() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12127  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:03:31] <^demon>	Simetrical: Heh at the "hideous mess" comment.
[23:13:24] <^demon>	Simetrical: Question in HTML5. I know that border has been deprecated for <img> as was XHTML. What's the state on border for <table>?
[23:14:27] <CIA-58>	03demon * r53281 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES skins/common/shared.css): (bug 19513) Minor changes for the new search UI for RTL wikis
[23:14:46] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Minor changes for the new search UI for RTL wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19513  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:14:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add-on to Extension:Usage_Statistics: statistics per namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19621  +comment (10alfred.maghi)
[23:26:42] <almaghi>	what is expected for an extension to get into SVN+Bugzilla system?
[23:32:49] <^demon>	almaghi: Finding a dev willing to commit. Having an author who's active is nice too. We've got a lot of 'committed-then-abandoned' extensions lying about.
[23:38:24] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Add Extension:IndexFunction to Bugzilla - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19722 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Bugzilla; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[23:38:42] <mdale>	here it goes...
[23:38:55] <^demon>	\o/
[23:39:18] <mdale>	check in failed :(
[23:39:21] <reedy>	^demon, other than the mw page... Know if theres any more information about maxlag without reading the actual code?
[23:40:31] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Add 'confirmed' group to enwiki & commonswiki providing the 'autoconfirmed' permissions, which can be manually assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19611  +comment (10brion)
[23:40:47] <^demon>	reedy: I doubt it.
[23:41:27] <reedy>	hmm
[23:41:46] <reedy>	With AWB switched to apiediting,.. with maxlag set to 5, it never seems to get anything done
[23:41:47] <reedy>	lol
[23:44:13] <reedy>	It could just be the way awb handles it atm...
[23:44:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Deleted page still need to patrol - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19389  +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[23:45:34] <MrZ-man>	reedy: you mean its never working at all, or just not very often?
[23:45:55] <Simetrical>	^demon, all presentational elements and attributes are invalid.
[23:46:01] <Simetrical>	Except style=, of course.
[23:46:20] <reedy>	MrZ-man, very rarely
[23:46:42] <reedy>	Tries to open/save and maxlag returns an error etxc
[23:46:48] <Simetrical>	reedy, what's the max lag given?
[23:46:57] <reedy>	>=10 usually
[23:47:04] <reedy>	seen 20+
[23:47:05] <Simetrical>	That shouldn't be happening, I don't think.
[23:47:14] <Simetrical>	If it is, it should be temporary.
[23:47:25] <^demon>	Simetrical: That's what I thought. I'm thinking of WONTFIXing bug 18829 (add border="" on tables)
[23:47:37] <reedy>	hmmm
[23:47:39] <Simetrical>	You could run your bot with a higher maxlag, just be judicious.
[23:47:52] <reedy>	well, if it was just me, that'd be fine
[23:48:26] <reedy>	But its for the next release of awb... and we a) cant have everyone using the higher values.. and we cant be having them lagged all the time due to it
[23:48:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Update index table when pages are deleted. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19723 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[23:49:27] <Simetrical>	Oh my God, jidanni has actually requested commit access.
[23:49:42] <MrZ-man>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=dbrepllag&sishowalldb
[23:49:47] <Simetrical>	He's gotten a bunch of patches accepted, so technically he meets the standards we set for other people.  But.
[23:50:22] <reedy>	brb
[23:50:34] <reedy>	MrZ-man, can you post that when i come back in in 30 seconds?
[23:50:46] <^demon>	Simetrical: Yeah I saw. Some of his ideas/patches are really good. Sometimes they're not.
[23:50:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add Extension:IndexFunction to Bugzilla - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19722  (10bugzilla.wikimedia)
[23:50:56] <Simetrical>	He puts in the effort.
[23:51:01] <Simetrical>	He just has really, really weird priorities.
[23:51:15] <^demon>	Simetrical: That's for sure. And I certainly can't fault him for trying.
[23:51:27] <Reedy>	Theres still code review ;)
[23:51:38] <MrZ-man>	Reedy: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=dbrepllag&sishowalldb
[23:51:47] <Simetrical>	I'm trying to find where it says in HTML 4 or XHTML 1 that border= on tables is deprecated.
[23:52:11] <Reedy>	MrZ-man, cheers
[23:52:19] <Simetrical>	Huh, border= is still in XHTML 1.0 Strict.
[23:52:20] <^demon>	Reedy: Yes, but people you have to revert all the time do slow the process down.
[23:52:20] <Simetrical>	Funny.
[23:52:27] <^demon>	Simetrical: I was hunting, couldn't find it.
[23:52:31] <^demon>	(that's why I asked)
[23:52:39] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Search on the Wikimedia UK chapter wiki does not work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19720  +comment (10rainman)
[23:52:45] <MrZ-man>	its acting kind of odd right now, db28 seems to randomly disappear sometimes
[23:53:50] <Reedy>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=info|revisions&intoken=edit&titles=Main%20Page&rvprop=timestamp|user|comment|content?format=xml&assert=user&maxlag=5
[23:54:01] <Reedy>	10.0.6.22 ~20
[23:54:21] <Reedy>	but showing 0 on the link you posted
[23:55:05] <Reedy>	well.. If host = db+last octet
[23:55:11] <MrZ-man>	its db12
[23:55:19] <MrZ-man>	http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=db.php
[23:55:59] <Reedy>	Nice, so we're always managing to hit the crappy lagged server
[23:56:42] <MrZ-man>	maxlag always reports the most lagged server (hence *max*lag)
[23:56:50] <Reedy>	oh..
[23:59:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Update index table when pages are deleted. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19723  (10bugzilla.wikimedia)