<ignore><includeonly></includeonly></ignore>subst:#if:a

\n" ); [06:35:32] hmm, that limit is hard-coded in, how lame [06:35:39] I imagine either the browser either cuts off characters or the database cuts them off [06:35:45] -either [06:35:56] is there a way I can fix it? [06:36:04] without breaking anything in the wiki? [06:36:12] Um, just how many kilobytes are we talking here? [06:36:16] yes, lower the $wgMaxArticleSize to 32 kilobytes ^_^ [06:36:21] then no pages will be too long [06:36:22] *Splarka kidding [06:36:28] :D [06:36:37] well [06:36:53] the problem is that I can't know [06:36:58] the kb [06:37:22] cause i have a student who added a 80kb contribution [06:37:29] and given that the deadline is today [06:37:33] tonight [06:37:40] I expect to get much much worse [06:37:58] Uh, well, you could just have them create separate pages [06:38:01] Or subpages [06:38:09] I did [06:38:10] :( [06:38:16] but they refuse to do that [06:38:21] "refuse" [06:38:30] Beat them until they comply [06:38:32] instead they claim that they add to the existinh pages [06:38:35] :D [06:38:40] existing [06:38:42] That's the Greek model, isn't it? [06:38:59] haha [06:39:10] maybe feed them with souvlaki till they drop [06:39:10] :D [06:39:12] You could also have them upload Word or text documents [06:39:36] That is, through Special:Upload [06:39:40] which will appear as links correct? [06:39:46] not as the full document [06:40:11] You'll download them to your computer, yes [06:40:42] yeah that won't work [06:40:49] Why not? [06:41:03] because they are supposed to be editing on what they see [06:41:14] huh? [06:41:21] I mean [06:41:28] Emufarmers: he wants a wiki, not a repository ^_^ [06:41:43] Splarka: they all _say_ they want wikis :) [06:41:44] what Splarka said (i guess) [06:41:45] so, when you say "but why does it eventually delete the article"... [06:41:50] what happens? [06:41:58] does the page stop existing, and links to it go red? [06:42:01] well [06:42:07] in history [06:42:07] does the page text disappear but the page still have a history? [06:42:10] does the page get truncated? [06:42:14] neither [06:42:23] does someone come along and blank it? [06:42:28] this one [06:42:42] i thought they do it intentionally [06:42:52] Given what you've told us about them, are you sure they're not? :) [06:42:53] but it turns out that it has something to do with the size of the page [06:42:57] yes [06:42:58] :) [06:43:09] cause I tried to edit a big page [06:43:17] and only by editing [06:43:21] without even adding [06:43:23] well [06:43:26] then I guess I was serious [06:43:31] reduce the max article size [06:43:31] it gets deleted [06:43:35] then they /can't/ make them bigger [06:44:05] but there is no auto-delete limit in MediaWiki, it is the browsers or database or possible php, or maybe even server gremlins [06:44:33] I think I should have planned it more wisely [06:44:33] :D [06:44:43] is there a wiki on how to use a wiki for class? [06:44:44] :D [06:44:53] My vote is with the browser; is it empty as soon as you click "edit," or does all the text seem to be there, but it vanishes when you save? [06:45:03] this one [06:45:08] it appears on edi [06:45:10] edit [06:45:17] when I preview it is gone [06:45:53] and of course when I save [06:46:04] and on history it shows I deleted the page [06:48:18] greetings [06:48:59] <\n> Wyn: Greetings [06:49:15] <\n> Wyn: How may the server kittens assist you this evening? [06:49:46] I have a stupid noob media wiki question [06:50:18] how do I add a namespace to my wiki? [06:50:39] <\n> Wyn: One moment [06:51:05] <\n> Wyn: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces [06:51:19] thank you.. I couldn't find it to save my soul :D [06:51:28] <\n> Wyn: No problem :) [06:51:39] you guys rock.... :D I'm out [07:08:22] 03(NEW) User CSS/JS cannot be marked as patrolled by users without editusercssjs right - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19818 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Recent changes; (liangent) [07:25:09] 03(NEW) Activate revisiondelete for sysops on simple wiki. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19819 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: User interface; (scream) [07:28:19] 03(mod) Activate revisiondelete for sysops on simple wiki. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19819 (10scream) [07:33:54] mediawiki downloads still down? [07:34:14] anyone know where can i get a download link? [07:35:13] rolly1975: http://toolserver.org/~alexz/mediawiki-1.15.1.tar.gz [07:35:31] Emufarmers: thanks! [07:37:08] *Emufarmers crosses his fingers [07:37:27] *p858snake sends the server kitties after Emufarmers [07:37:33] o: [07:38:29] omg, rouge topic changing! ban time! [07:38:42] *Splarka keeds [07:39:10] oh we should put that up [07:39:29] tomorrow I'll try to scrounge some of the missing releases and put them up on download.* [07:40:30] can't you re-generate them from http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/tags/ in a worst case scenario? [07:40:56] or would they need re-signing? [07:41:10] or ask people for them, a few of us probably have them lying around [07:44:39] yes, but it's a bit of a pain [07:44:44] (to regenerate) [07:44:57] figure I'll go hunting first, then we'll ask people, then we'll regenerate them [07:45:47] Only the latest release is terribly important [07:46:11] heh, well it is a bit microsoft [07:46:19] "We have a security update, but you can't have it" [07:46:24] :D [07:48:39] Why on earth wasn't download.wikimedia backed up? [07:49:14] Everything in it is replacable; I would complain about why Commons isn't really backed up instead. :) [07:53:51] Replaceable at what cost? [07:53:51] apergos's blood pressure? [07:53:51] isn't most of the content on that server outdated anyway [07:53:51] 12 pack of stroopwafels [07:53:51] expect fot the mw releases [07:53:51] The time alone is costly. [07:53:51] Setting up backups takes time too :) [07:53:51] I'm not bottom lining the download server [07:53:51] but I did tell folks I'd dig around and see if I could turn up some missing releases [07:53:51] no blood pressure issues there [07:53:51] now the image server, that's going to kill me one day if we don't get it straightened ot [07:53:51] *out [07:53:51] find out what releases your looking for and we will look for them [07:53:51] http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/MediaWiki_releases_to_recover anything here that's not on download [07:53:51] (I haven't walked through yet to mark them, I was off the net most of the time til this evening, then [07:53:51] *horrors* [07:53:51] I went to a movie :P) [07:53:51] what is "off the net" ? [07:53:51] i've got 1.15.0 [07:54:06] Eh, losing some of those would be good thing, IMO: it'll force people switching servers to upgrade; anybody who needs a specific version for testing or whatever should be using SVN anyway [07:54:24] it's what happens when comcast screws up your connection, Splarka :-P [07:55:01] heh [07:55:10] http://www.sfr-fresh.com/unix/www/mediawiki-1.14.1.tar.gz [07:56:28] i will look on my external later [07:56:45] cool [07:57:09] There must be sites out there that just mirrored all the releases [07:57:19] at least some of them, yeah prolly [07:57:37] long as they didn't mirror our disk crash too :-P [08:00:49] Stupid Google cache doesn't even index tars! ;( [08:00:49] bri on got some out of the wayback machine [08:00:50] http://mediawiki.en.softonic.com/ o woo :/ [08:00:51] Cool; why not all of them, though? [08:00:52] it's easy to regenerate the archive from svn [08:00:52] only problem is the pgp sig [08:00:53] Because soooo many people check those >_> [08:01:25] they weren't all there ( Emufarmers ) [08:01:44] I need to get some sleep [08:01:59] see ya all later [08:02:07] See ya, apergos. [08:02:31] Bye-bye [08:03:46] bah site i'm trying to upload it to isn't working properly >.< anyone know any free file sharing sites that accept the .tar.gz files? [08:04:53] p858snake: you don't have any hosting? [08:05:01] no [08:05:14] i'm jobless atm [08:05:20] :( [08:06:06] your ISP doesn't offer any webspace? [08:06:24] not my account, so i can't get onto it [08:06:28] I'll set something up for you if you give me a few minutes [08:19:03] ugga [08:21:54] 03avar * r53471 10/trunk/tools/osm-tools/osm2pgsql-style/create-wikimedia-style.pl: A script to create a wikimedia.style from a default.style [08:24:32] why this renders as plaintext as if it was in nowiki block? {{subst:#if:a|b}} [08:25:24] 03(mod) Clean up the rendering of messages displayed at the top of the edit window (patch) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16175 (10niklas.laxstrom) [08:26:41] Danny_B: you probably want {{subst:#if:a|b}} [08:27:00] your example appears the same as {{subst:#if:a|b}} to the parser [08:27:11] and if you try {{subst:#if:a|b}} you see it echoes as plain text right back [08:27:20] (well, depending) [08:28:04] actually, hmm, it only does that in ExpandTemplates [08:28:06] Splarka: sure i do want to have subst in noinclude block,but somebody pointed this to me as "working solution" which from my pov is bug [08:28:33] er [08:28:42] so because their solution doesn't work, it is a bug? [08:28:46] and not a stupid solution? [08:28:52] wait a sec [08:29:13] imho it should be substed on page save,right? [08:29:36] {{subst:#if:a|b}} you mean? [08:29:37] but after page save it appears like {{subst:#if:a|b}} literally [08:30:10] so? [08:30:22] hi Splarka Splarka [08:30:43] r [08:31:11] it should display b i guess [08:31:14] so if you don't like what it does, don't do it [08:31:21] {{subst:#if:a|b}} shows b [08:31:27] omg [08:31:31] i know [08:31:51] i was asking why the formerconstruction works the unexpected way [08:31:59] if it's on purpose (why?) or bug [08:32:10] [08:32:17] it is how the parser works [08:34:54] weird. i would expect it will run the subst on save because it's not wrapped in includeonly thus after save i'll se b on page as well as b in source code after reopening it [08:36:47] well it appears i only have 1.15.0, must of deleted the other stuff whilst i was cleaning up [08:38:09] Danny_B: why? it isn't {{subst:}} so it isn't subst'd [08:38:49] it is {{nonwhitespacesubst: [08:38:58] a will do the same thing [08:39:35] probably shows as a big ugly strip marker there for noinclude and/or nowiki [08:43:01] aha. so the problem lies in the order of processing. i thought includeonly is processed and then what is around it [08:43:48] so basically here the includeonly block would "return" empty string [08:44:00] thus then it would be {{subst:... [08:44:08] thus it would be substed [08:44:36] "aha. so the problem lies in the order of processing." [08:44:48] again, /why/ is it a "problem"? or a "bug"? [08:48:47] the word "problem" doesn't necessarily have to have negative meaning as bug. it's been mentioned as "the situation" or "the algorithm" or sth like that. idk about any other word in english, i am not native speaker. we use the word problem this way. there's problem and solution. it's like question and answer... [08:49:40] okay [08:49:42] start over [08:49:45] what exactly are you trying to do? [08:51:33] Does anyone which file handles "Setting page_random to a random value on rows where it equals 0..." in the updater, I need to skip it since it takes far too long on the database I'm working with? [08:55:56] Splarka: i? nothing. i know that proper usage is {{subst:#if:...}} when i want to display the result on page and keep the template but if included then be substed. but as i mentioned, somebody came up with that solution which on its page does not display the result of if test,but literarily the source of the entire if construction. so i just wanted to know why is that,why it does not display the result instead [09:10:43] 03(mod) Clean up the rendering of messages displayed at the top of the edit window (patch) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16175 (10happy-melon) [09:25:57] In Vector is the text size intentionally much larger than in MonoBook (maybe for usability)? [10:09:01] Roberthl there are scripts where the current size is certainly too small [10:09:51] Ah, I see. [10:10:02] Makes sense then. [10:30:59] ugga [10:36:09] 03siebrand * r53472 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [10:36:09] Follow-up to r53155 [10:36:09] * remove obsolete special page aliases [10:36:09] * remove obsolete special page bodies [11:46:15] 03siebrand * r53473 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/SpecialLanguageStats.php: Division by 0 should not be possible as it means that a collection has 0 messages, but does ooccur. Caching issue? [11:51:32] 03(NEW) Garbage in Special:Preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19820 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Vector Skin; (bugzilla.wikimedia) [11:56:45] Splarka: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090719.gif [11:56:52] Isn't this basically how MediaWiki works? [11:59:14] is there a better way of checking if a message exists than seeing if it returns "<$messageName>" ? [12:04:13] cirwin: not really [12:04:41] alright then [12:05:47] and for my next question, how would I ask for all pages that use a specific message to re-render when that messages is edited? presumably I'd have to hook into the same system of link-backs that templates use? [12:06:44] cirwin: messages are includes with {{MediaWiki:...}}? [12:07:17] well, I'm writing a transliterator that (currently) takes its rules out of a message [12:07:33] svip: I have a confession to make, I'm really Maurice LaMarche! Or maybe I am Fred Savage pretending to be him [12:07:38] I thought about coding them all in php directly, but then it's impossible to change things from the front-end [12:08:09] so if the rules are modified, it needs to re-parse all the pages that relied on those rules [12:08:27] even though its not transclusion [12:13:39] cirwin: add a template link to the page with $parser->mOutput->addTemplate( $title, $title->getArticleID(), null ); [12:13:59] where $title is a title object representing the MediWiki:... page [12:14:10] ok, thank you [12:14:33] from within the parser function callback [12:14:41] yes [12:28:06] 03ialex * r53474 10/trunk/ (315 files in 69 dirs): svn:eol-style native [12:30:01] Hi, I'm trying to set up a new MediaWiki installation, but when I try to run the config script I'm getting a 500 server error [12:31:16] I've had a look in the server log, and it seems to be complaining that a file called /home/myusername/public_html/wiki/config/sys_cpanel is missing [12:32:02] there's no file config/sys_cpanel [12:32:08] at least not in MediaWiki :) [12:32:50] hmmm, odd [12:33:53] any ideas as to what might be making the config script die in that case? [12:34:06] !errors [12:34:06] --mwbot-- To see PHP errors, add this to the very top of LocalSettings.php: error_reporting(E_ALL); ini_set("display_errors", 1); Fatal PHP errors usually go to Apache's error log - also check the error_log setting in php.ini (or use phpinfo). For more details in wiki error reports, set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; $wgShowSQLErrors = true; For full debug output, set $wgDebugLogFile to some path you like. [12:36:36] I think I've got it, just a permissions problem [13:22:21] 03(mod) Email notification mistakes edit for new page creation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14901 minor->normal; +comment (10mail) [14:12:04] which hook would i need to attach to change showDiffPage() in an extension? [14:12:45] 03(NEW) move NAMESPACE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19821 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (wmr89502270) [14:15:16] Hi. I want to ask, if is there any way to do calculations (ParserExtension) based on the values each user store on his/her userpage on MediaWiki? [14:15:36] I thought about a magic word showing an active username, but it seems there isn't any.. [14:15:49] Faalagorn: not easily [14:16:01] the page is only parsed on edit not on view [14:16:09] Oh [14:16:22] That's a problem, indeed. I haven't thought about it ^^ [14:16:27] you can hook an extension into the view code, but it's not that pretty [14:17:15] Sounds pretty complicated ^^'. So, no easy way, like extension on MediaWiki? [14:17:40] if you write your own extension you could do something, or you could do some javascript [14:17:41] 03(NEW) Remove unnecessary restrictions on DISPLAYTITLE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19822 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (catlow) [14:18:04] you need sth like {{CURRENTUSER}} to display the user name of the currently viewing user? [14:18:55] Something like that Subfader (though I'm not sure if it'll work) [14:20:44] Hello all, I have one question: is there an extension in mediawiki, with which I can use tags in tags such as [[this]] should be a link ? [14:21:27] 14(WFM) Remove unnecessary restrictions on DISPLAYTITLE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19822 +comment (10conrad.irwin) [14:21:52] Shadow2228: use {{#tag:code| [[this]] should be a link }} [14:22:25] ah ty very much [14:29:59] hi [14:31:17] have anybody a ready to use bot to replace one text to other on all pages? [14:32:12] Elektryk91: you may want to check out pywikipediabot for something like that [14:36:46] 03siebrand * r53475 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialRevisiondelete.php: Use $wgLang->pipeList() instead of separating with "/" [14:37:05] 03(NEW) RevisionDelete: No recreate-warning after a page has been suppress-deleted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19823 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (church.of.emacs.ml) [14:47:15] 03siebrand * r53476 10/trunk/phase3/includes/LogEventsList.php: Use localised parentheses and $wgLang->pipeList() instead of hardcoded parentheses and pipe characters. [14:48:15] hi Duesentrieb :) [14:49:41] heya [14:50:37] is there any more to caching besides "store results in DB; before answering a new request, if time < cachetime, check DB for existing results" ? [15:00:45] pfctdayelise: yes, rather than caching in the DB, you can use memcached or something like eAccelerator to cache in memory. You can also use squid or file cache to cache fully generated HTML pages for anonymous users - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Cache [15:01:52] MrZ-man: thanks for the good advice :) but I am actually talking about caching in my own 3rd party tool rather than mediawiki [15:02:28] pfctdayelise: conceptually there's not much more to it than that, implementing it correctly requires a lot of careful thought - you may end up slowing things down [15:02:45] Faalagorn: sorry, was away from the pc. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Variables enables {{CURRENTUSER}} [15:03:03] $parser->disableCache(); # Mark this content as uncacheable [15:03:06] is the magic line [15:03:23] which needless to say, is a bad idea :p [15:03:42] which hook could i use to change showDiffPage() in an extension? [15:07:40] how can i use attributes for these tags? {{#tag:script lang="ssm"| [[this]] should be a link }} or can u give me a link from a documentation about that? [15:13:13] <__neo__> hi guys [15:13:15] 03siebrand * r53477 10/trunk/extensions/ (13 files in 2 dirs): [15:13:15] * Update messages for QuestyCaptcha [15:13:15] * stylize.php and trailing whitespace removed for ConfirmEdit [15:13:15] * add support for QuestyCaptcha to Translate [15:13:15] * svn execute bits removed [15:13:44] ok i use DiffViewHeader now. excuse my dumb question [15:13:46] <__neo__> do you know how to list categories recursively via DPL(third-party)? [15:14:10] __neo__: order=descending? [15:14:33] <__neo__> I can only list the subcategories of a given category but not more than 1 level [15:14:45] <__neo__> order=descending means recursive? [15:14:54] no [15:15:09] you'd need a second template to check the levels before [15:15:19] there should be an example for it [15:15:29] <__neo__> oh..dpl in dpl [15:15:47] yes but via a template called in format= [15:15:48] <__neo__> do you have any example or something explaining how to? [15:15:51] Any Mirror for 1.15.1 Download? I wanted to use the weekend to install the newest version and now it's down! [15:16:23] 03daniel * r53478 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordIntegrator/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/integrator/ (20 files in 2 dirs): rewriting integrator data model. intermediate commit, DOES NOT COMPILE [15:16:34] want to exactly want. output like a category tree? [15:16:42] <__neo__> yes, exactly [15:16:48] <__neo__> starting with my root category [15:16:51] so downwards from a defined starting cat? [15:16:59] <__neo__> yes [15:17:18] hohn: http://toolserver.org/~alexz/mediawiki-1.15.1.tar.gz [15:17:31] thx [15:17:34] np [15:20:14] http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Extension_DPL#Tree_output tree output but also one level in depth i guess [15:21:23] <__neo__> thanks a lot - will check right away! [15:22:00] 03(mod) __INDEX__ and __NOINDEX__ should not override $wgArticleRobotPolicies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14900 +comment (10happy-melon) [15:33:58] __neo__: http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=User:Subfader/Subcats_tree you'd have to loop the template [15:34:08] but there should be an easier solution [15:39:07] ROAARRRRR [15:39:30] who committed cooperation statistics and mostrevisions? [15:40:03] *cirwin points at demon [15:41:56] <__neo__> Subfader: thanks for your help - I'm not that experienced with dpl and I'll try to read more [15:42:40] __neo__: with DPL and the loops and variables extensions you can do anything - if you can cope with a 10:1 ratio of curly brackets to common sense [15:43:45] <__neo__> for me it's first time I see dpl - I wanted to use TreeMenu+DPL to have a view of all my categories [15:43:55] F5 my example i added a "/template 2" in "/template" for 2 down levels. you'd need to repeat that for the depth you want. stupid but working solution [15:44:14] <__neo__> so I'm sorry I can't understand exactly how to do it at this point - don't have the necessary understanding over DPL [15:44:21] <__neo__> but I'll try to read some docs on it [15:44:39] *cirwin had to create a list of all pages within categories with dates that fell into the current week :D [15:45:36] <__neo__> Subfader: so there isn't a way to make it n-level recursive? [15:46:12] __neo__: categories can loop remember [15:46:47] <__neo__> oh..I understand [15:46:55] <__neo__> so it would mean stackoverflow :D [15:47:16] there is goal=category to result the cats of a page though http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Test_goal#show_the_categories_of_a_certain_page_.28Oktoberfest.29 [15:47:24] but i see no solution for you atm [15:48:34] <__neo__> ok, thanks for the help [15:48:55] <__neo__> I guess I need 3-4 levels so I'll make it the manual-way [15:49:28] 03(mod) Checkuser watchlist feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 (10mike.lifeguard) [15:51:41] 03nikerabbit * r53479 10/trunk/extensions/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Removing BOMs which cause *BUGS*. Please do not add BOMs and change/learn your text editor settings or get a better editor. [15:52:32] 03(mod) Activate revisiondelete for sysops on simple wiki. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19819 +comment (10innocentkiller) [15:52:32] <__neo__> I looked at your templates and I finally understood what you meant! [15:52:42] <__neo__> :) [15:52:47] just create Template:Subcats Level 1, Template:Subcats Level 2 etc. those can be used for individual subcat lists then using the code of User:Subfader/Subcats tree whichuses Template:Subcats Level 1 then [15:52:55] was that clear enough? [15:52:56] <__neo__> thank you all! [15:53:36] <__neo__> Subfader, Nikerabbit: it's finally clear now :) [15:54:34] <__neo__> I mean, I wasn't looking very patiently at the templates and failed to understand that there's the recursion standing ;) [15:56:51] 03(mod) Activate revisiondelete for sysops on simple wiki. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19819 +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [15:56:59] I changed the example to an template itself so you can use {{Template:Subcats|cat=Whatever}} to call a list [15:58:40] <^demon> Mike_lifeguard: I wasn't assigning it to him, I was just CC'ing to keep in the loop :) [15:59:03] 03(mod) Garbage in Special:Preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19820 (10niklas.laxstrom) [15:59:18] I think Brion is the one who needs to be kept in the loop (& note that he's the one who has questioned whether we want to ever activate it for sysops) [16:00:02] 03(mod) Garbage in Special:Preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19820 +comment (10innocentkiller) [16:00:27] <^demon> Mike_lifeguard: Well now they're both in the loop ;-) [16:04:08] 03(mod) move NAMESPACE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19821 (10brion) [16:05:37] 03(mod) Garbage in Special:Preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19820 +comment (10brion) [16:06:19] 03(mod) Enable Rollback on en.Wikinews & tie into "editor" group - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19815 (10brion) [16:07:09] 03(mod) Enable the rollback usergroup at Simple English Wikiquote - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19813 (10brion) [16:10:38] 03(mod) Clean up the rendering of messages displayed at the top of the edit window (patch) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16175 (10niklas.laxstrom) [16:11:43] where does mw need permissions again if you get: function.mkdir Permission denied in /var/www/w/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 2012 ? [16:11:54] see a handful of wikis on the net like that [16:13:10] 03(mod) secure.wikimedia.org speed and status - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19587 (10William.Allen.Simpson) [16:15:02] 03(mod) Article actually exists, but won't come up. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19792 (10brion) [16:15:18] 03(mod) Namespace filter in Special:Linksearch on WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 +comment (10brion) [16:15:19] 14(DUP) LinkSearch has no namespace selector in its interface - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19789 +comment (10brion) [16:19:17] Simetrical: what should be used instead of ? [16:22:13] what am i doing wrong in a selfmade extension that used to work in previous versions, and now produces: " [16:22:16] what am i doing wrong in a selfmade extension that used to work in previous versions, and now produces: "Fatal error: Unsupported operand types in /var/www/w/includes/parser/LinkHolderArray.php on line 33 [16:22:20] oops [16:24:14] 03(mod) secure.wikimedia.org speed and status - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19587 (10William.Allen.Simpson) [16:25:00] html5 spec states "Use CSS instead" for [16:30:20] klutzy_: what css exactly? [16:30:35] font-family:monospace; would work, no? [16:31:23] dunno [16:31:27] this is parser bug anyway [16:31:29] mostly [16:31:40] it should convert tt to something appropriate [16:31:47] Should just have the parser add a class on the fly... yes ^^. [16:34:40] monospace would be an answer :o [16:34:46] or how about ? [16:36:05] Would assume that's also deprecated. (No idea.) [16:39:48] 03(NEW) Drafts' summary shall be displayed in existing list and Special:Draft - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19824 trivial; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh) [16:40:48] 03(mod) Checkuser watchlist feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 (10mapellegrini) [16:41:06] is html5 element, though I don't know it pre-exists. [16:41:13] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-code-element [16:42:43] There are also interesting elements like for user input and for output, which are supported by latest browsers [16:43:03] Well so where it makes sense, but where it doesn't. [16:43:03] (don't know about old browsers ;) [16:43:14] does not necesserily imply [16:44:25] 03(mod) move NAMESPACE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19821 (10wmr89502270) [16:46:27] Hi! Do you know where I can find mwbot code? Because http://amidaniel.com/viewvc/trunk/MWBot/src/com/amidaniel/mwbot/?root=svn seems not work... [16:46:29] which hook should i use to disable history diffs in an extension? [16:47:07] 03(mod) date option "ISO 8601" produce illegal id - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19784 (10brion) [16:47:21] 03(NEW) User shall be able to discard multiple drafts at once - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19825 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh) [16:47:47] Hi. Can I add new user groups to mediawiki? [16:48:26] !groups | dergringo [16:48:26] --mwbot-- dergringo: For information on customizing user access, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:User_rights >. For common examples of restricting access using both rights and extensions, see < http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access >. [16:48:54] !newusergroup | dergringo [16:48:54] --mwbot-- dergringo: To create a new usergroup, simply set permissions for that group in LocalSettings.php, using $wgGroupPermissions. Then, simply add users to that group [16:49:09] !wg GroupPermissions | dergringo [16:49:09] --mwbot-- dergringo: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgGroupPermissions [16:49:18] Thanks :) [16:50:12] 03brion * r53480 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/HTMLForm.php): [16:50:12] * (bug 19784) date option "ISO 8601" produced illegal id [16:50:12] Now running auto-generated id/names for radio group items through Sanitizer::escapeId(). [16:50:12] For good measure, also manually checking the input 'name' and 'id' field values for base fields against validation and throwing an exception if we ain't got em. [16:51:19] 03(FIXED) date option "ISO 8601" produce illegal id - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19784 +comment (10brion) [16:52:09] hmm, the title for Special:SpecialPages on trunk is 'Upload file'. http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:SpecialPages?uselang=en [16:52:25] 03(NEW) Draft count shall be displayed in Special:Draft page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19826 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Drafts; (janesh) [16:54:05] Sorry if I repeat my question, but it's passed unnoticed... Do you know where I can find mwbot code? Because http://amidaniel.com/viewvc/trunk/MWBot/src/com/amidaniel/mwbot/?root=svn seems not work... [16:54:14] 03(mod) tablerow for gadgets-prefstext not valid - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19785 (10brion) [16:54:42] 03brion * r53481 10/trunk/extensions/Gadgets/Gadgets.php: bug 19785 tablerow for gadgets-prefstext not valid [16:54:50] 03(FIXED) tablerow for gadgets-prefstext not valid - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19785 +comment (10brion) [16:55:30] 03(mod) Set sitename of Turkmen wiktionary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19777 (10brion) [16:55:30] hallo [16:56:11] 03(mod) Activate abuse filter on itwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19772 (10brion) [16:57:09] 03(NEW) Special:SpecialPages title is "Upload file - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19827 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (siebrand) [16:57:22] 03(mod) Special:SpecialPages title is "Upload file - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19827 normal->high (10siebrand) [16:57:38] 14(INVALID) Only date shall be considered for draft expireation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19769 +comment (10brion) [16:57:48] siebrand, hmm what I would like to do ist to create a group "moderators" that has nearly the same rights as sysops. Is there a way to clone to rights from sysops an aplly them to my group? [16:57:55] *ist = is [16:58:04] dergringo: dunno. [16:58:08] dergringo: not my thing. [16:58:16] ok [16:58:34] 03(mod) User can access the expired drafts throug saved bookmarks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19767 04CRIT->normal; +comment (10brion) [16:59:44] 03(mod) Draft count shall be displayed in Special:Draft page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19826 normal->15enhancement (10janesh) [17:01:34] 03(mod) Remove worse-than-useless keywords feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19761 +comment (10brion) [17:04:23] 03(mod) Checkuser watchlist feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 (10mapellegrini) [17:07:17] 03brion * r53482 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/OutputPage.php): [17:07:17] * (bug 19761) Removed autogenerated tag with link data. [17:07:17] Keyword set was not useful, and is ignored by modern search engines anway. [17:07:45] 03(NEW) Invalid chars in the output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19828 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (tantin.david) [17:07:58] 03(FIXED) Remove worse-than-useless keywords feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19761 +comment (10brion) [17:08:48] 14(INVALID) New Meta keyword entry added each time addWikiText is called - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7614 +comment (10brion) [17:09:26] 14(INVALID) Mediawiki incorrectly sorts link names before selecting the first n links to be keywords in meta tags - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570 +comment (10brion) [17:09:30] 03(mod) Match ordering of GlobalBlocking fields to local block form - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19760 summary; +comment (10brion) [17:09:34] brion: aren't these the same keywords that most web filters pick up and base allowable sites on ? [17:10:21] 03(mod) Tool icon for indentation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19757 +comment (10brion) [17:12:00] 03(NEW) Ganglia link to wikitech - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19829 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (William.Allen.Simpson) [17:13:10] 03(mod) Clean up the rendering of messages displayed at the top of the edit window (patch) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16175 (10happy-melon) [17:13:12] 03(CLOSED) Remove worse-than-useless keywords feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19761 (10greenreaper) [17:15:14] 14(WFM) Slightly wrong grammar in description of when e-mail address was confirmed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19758 +comment (10brion) [17:15:56] 03(mod) Ganglia link to wikitech - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19829 (10brion) [17:21:00] 03(mod) Special:SpecialPages title is "Upload file - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19827 (10brion) [17:24:17] 03(mod) Slightly wrong grammar in description of when e-mail address was confirmed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19758 (10earle) [17:25:02] 03brion * r53483 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/specials/SpecialUpload.php): [17:25:02] * (bug 19827) Special:SpecialPages title is "Upload file [17:25:02] Restructured SpecialUpload class was performing output in constructor; this messed up other pages using the object in the background, as Special:Specialpages [17:26:03] 03(FIXED) Special:SpecialPages title is "Upload file - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19827 +comment (10brion) [17:28:28] 03(mod) Slightly wrong grammar in description of when e-mail address was confirmed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19758 +comment (10brion) [17:30:06] 03(mod) Slightly wrong grammar in description of when e-mail address was confirmed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19758 +comment (10siebrand) [17:30:28] 14(INVALID) Add option for PHP version - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19752 +comment (10brion) [17:31:07] 03(mod) Create strategy.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19724 (10brion) [17:31:38] 03(mod) Checkuser watchlist feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 (10mike.lifeguard) [17:33:14] 03(mod) localize value acceptance of function - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19804 (10siebrand) [17:33:17] Simetrical: what should be used instead of ? <-- Whatever is semantically appropriate. For instance, or might be correct in some cases. [17:33:29] 03(mod) localize value acceptance of function - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19804 +i18n (10siebrand) [17:33:47] Simetrical: but is allowed in wikitext [17:33:57] So is . [17:34:17] Simetrical: parser has to do something for it [17:34:32] What do you mean? [17:34:45] 03(FIXED) Add Extension:IndexFunction to Bugzilla - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19722 +comment (10brion) [17:34:51] Simetrical: it can't just output if we are going to use html5? [17:35:09] That's the question. [17:35:27] 03(mod) Update index table when pages are deleted. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19723 (10brion) [17:35:38] To begin with we're just going to let it output invalid HTML 5 if the user inputs that, GIGO. [17:35:49] I wrote up some brief thoughts on [[mw:HTML 5]]. [17:36:05] user or developer, doesn't matter [17:36:18] is considered as an error [17:36:26] http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftranslatewiki.net%2Fwiki%2FSpecial%3ATranslate&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0 [17:36:39] Yes, lots of stuff is. [17:36:52] 03(FIXED) "Wiki does not exist" while mhr wiki does exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19708 +comment (10brion) [17:36:59] Any of those in code should be phased out in favor of semantic markup. [17:36:59] 03(mod) Set up a logo for mhr.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19707 (10brion) [17:37:00] 03purodha * r53484 10/trunk/extensions/CooperationStatistics/CooperationStatistics.i18n.php: unbalances paranthesis replaced by full stop. [17:38:27] 03(mod) Autosave cannot be configured - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19706 04BLOCKER->normal; high->normal; +comment (10brion) [17:39:38] It's not practical to get rid of all markup that's theoretically invalid HTML 5 before we switch, it would be a ton of effort for no practical gain. [17:39:58] 03(mod) Checkuser watchlist feature - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19796 (10lar) [17:39:58] is sometimes used for and sometimes for :) [17:39:59] well, raw-html always matters for validation, like or . [17:40:20] and validate in XHTML 1.0 Transitional, just not in HTML 5. [17:40:24] rather [17:41:33] *Nikerabbit kills the one who decided over [17:41:55] but they matter when we are going to use html5 or further specs :o [17:43:26] 03siebrand * r53485 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialVersion.php: Add major contributors raymond, ialex, siebrand [17:43:52] 14(INVALID) improve/fix CentralNotice style loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 +comment (10brion) [17:43:52] adding other people to special:Version? can't they add themselves if they wanted? [17:46:10] 14(INVALID) add an explicit action=view_source to present a page's markup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19681 +comment (10brion) [17:46:35] Nikerabbit: hey they save four bytes per snippet ;) [17:47:29] flyingparchment, avar thinks we should have a meritocracy where everyone is listed with their commit numbers. :P [17:48:51] I was amazed how much just changing the doctype itself saved. [17:49:19] Simetrical: he equates # of commits with merit? how curious. [17:50:44] GreenReaper, wait until we remove all type="text/css" and type="text/javascript". [17:51:11] Yeah, that helps - though I found you had to make sure you got all the end/inline scripts to get the saving as well [17:51:15] for example analytics scripts [17:51:16] 03(FIXED) 404 error when navigating away from the mobile site to regular Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19511 +comment (10hcatlin) [17:51:39] and the sitenotice [17:59:09] hmm, think we can add custom resolutions to bugzilla... a DONTWANT or something might be good for feature requests :) [17:59:17] DONOTWANT [17:59:17] neither WONTFIX nor INVALID feels quite right [17:59:20] NOTHANKS? [17:59:28] BADIDEA [17:59:29] NOWAI [17:59:30] YOUSUCK [17:59:33] hahaha [17:59:37] MAYBELATER [17:59:38] GTFO [17:59:52] MAYBENEVER [17:59:55] http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/do-not-want-dog.jpg [17:59:58] EPICFAIL [18:00:21] 03(NEW) PDF prints don't join Arabic letters properly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19830 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Collection; (obayd3) [18:00:22] brion, rename WONTFIX to DONTWANT and INVALID to CANTFIX. :) [18:00:47] change enhancement to ICANHAZ [18:03:00] change ASSIGNED to WORKINGONIT [18:07:21] brion, thoughts? I was just trying to write an AuthPlugin for vBulletin and got annoyed. :) http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ExternalAuth [18:09:48] How can I disable the showDiffPage() output using the DiffViewHeader hook? [18:10:46] *Emufarmers glomps Simetrical [18:11:00] Simetrical: mmm [18:12:53] Simetrical: offhand sounds like a reasonable direction to go. obviously we want to make sure CentralAuth and LDAP plugins can be cleanly done with any change to the system, preferably with minimal pain ;) [18:13:02] but yeah right now there's a lot of weird hackery and i hates it [18:13:13] brion, initially it would have to leave AuthPlugin alone, probably just be an optional layer on top. [18:13:30] \o/ [18:13:55] Assuming I actually do this. [18:15:35] go Simetrical ! you can do it yes you can [18:15:37] gimme an s [18:15:39] gimme an i [18:15:42] gimme a metrical [18:15:43] ooh, I might be able to actually get shared logins working then? \o/ [18:15:50] Aw, I was hoping for excess flood. :( [18:16:01] i flood just enough, no more [18:16:34] brion, if I do this as well as I'd hope, I think the auth classes could go in core. They'd be too small to merit their own individual extensions. [18:18:53] there is any easy way to change my wiki adress? [18:19:12] OverlordQ: I think you could do that right now with UserLoadFromSession. You'd just have to write it. :\ [18:19:35] Emufarmers: I tried, but I ended up having to almost reimplement half of the Database class :P [18:19:47] 03(mod) links to Unicode combined forms should appear blue if they autoredirect to component forms - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19451 +comment (10brion) [18:19:53] v: What were you trying to get cross-sessions with? [18:20:06] another wiki db [18:20:12] luminoso: depends how you're set up, but just moving the MW directory may suffice. [18:20:41] OverlordQ: oh, in that case, just use $wgCookieDomain? [18:20:51] I was thinking more in terms of SSO with phpBB or the like [18:21:56] nah, just SSO between a wili family [18:23:06] $wgCookieDomain and $wgSharedDB should suffice, then...well, as long as they're all on the same second level domain [18:23:48] $wgSharedDB makes some assumptions as to how the DB works which isn't compatible with all types. I might poke at it again [18:24:07] anyone can help me about MediaWiki instalation? [18:24:19] wasting a lot of time solving a weird error! [18:24:20] :( [18:24:25] !ask | IronBird [18:24:25] --mwbot-- IronBird: Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. See also: !gethelp [18:24:26] 03(mod) Remove MediaWiki:noexactmatch usage. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19484 +comment (10brion) [18:24:38] OverlordQ: beats wrestling with CentralAuth :D [18:24:59] 03(FIXED) "Clear" button on search bar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19490 +comment (10brion) [18:24:59] yea, I started down that road, then stopped halfway through converting the db [18:26:57] 04(REOPENED) "Clear" button on search bar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19490 +comment (10brion) [18:29:31] check this please: http://dpaste.org/gwuJ/ [18:30:06] you can see that it says at line 21 that i have 8.4 postresql version [18:30:17] than stopped by a postgresql version [18:30:36] saying my postgre version is older [18:30:38] If you're having pgsql problems, ask G_SabinoMullane/Greg Sabino Mullane. [18:33:00] 03(mod) Remove MediaWiki:noexactmatch usage. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19484 (10rainman) [18:33:46] :S [18:34:03] how dificult it's installing media wiki! [18:36:40] second [18:36:53] that's a bug in the installer, if it can't make a conenction for some reason it'll give a version error [18:36:55] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19479 [18:37:30] someone add a comment with pg_version so that it is possible to find that bug :o [18:37:46] since it says the wiki user already exists, be sure you're using the right user and password [18:39:58] hi all [18:40:16] is there a way to turn on the ip blocking on the mediawiki [18:40:21] 14(WFM) Remove MediaWiki:noexactmatch usage. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19484 +comment (10brion) [18:40:24] i have some spammers who ahve some scripts [18:40:32] who are killing our wiki [18:40:48] you mean you want to disable ip edits? [18:42:49] yes [18:42:53] or block on ip [18:43:00] wow is it really not even noon yet? [18:43:01] wtf [18:43:04] block one ip [18:43:15] this is what i get for waking up at like 6 [18:43:19] hi brion I enjoyed your speech in fosdem [18:43:35] was that taped? [18:43:56] dunno. i saw some things on the web. [18:43:58] 03(mod) Go and search button are confusing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577 +comment (10brion) [18:44:00] thx phurl :D [18:44:04] Mike_lifeguard: yeah lemme find the linky [18:44:19] http://leuksman.com/pages/presentations#February_2009 has a link to the vid [18:44:20] Mike_lifeguard: yes, it's taped. [18:44:32] reminds me, i should upgrade my wiki :) [18:44:38] you dont need anything special or enable anything to block IPs, just goto Special:Block [18:44:48] cool [18:44:56] *Emufarmers exploits brion's XSS [18:45:02] :) [18:45:10] Here, click on this tinyurl; it won't hurt [18:45:49] nom nom nom [18:45:58] Also, is it okay that I had chuck commit my plugin into ConfirmEdit? [18:46:06] OverlordQ, ok i will try it [18:46:16] http://wiki.flossk.org/index.php/Special:Block [18:46:19] no such special page [18:46:24] Fatal error: require_once(): Failed opening required '/srv/com.leuksman/StartProfiler.php' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear') in /srv/com.leuksman/maintenance/commandLine.inc on line 47 [18:46:26] queeeee? [18:46:38] which brings me [18:46:49] why are includes and languages still set in include path? [18:47:31] googling [18:47:32] try BlockIP then [18:47:57] and 1.11.0 is . . .rather old [18:48:35] Nikerabbit: i'm pretty sure i killed those a couple yeras ago; include path shouldn't be touched by default anymore [18:48:42] ah i think commandLine.php has some remnants maybe [18:49:01] yeah it really shouldn't be setting it ever, i think [18:49:20] brion: sure? [18:49:47] phurl: it's http://wiki.flossk.org/index.php/Special:Blockip [18:50:06] I don't think Special:Block was added as an alias until later [18:50:25] brion: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/config/index.php?annotate=53451#l1875 [18:50:26] i'm working on an extension to block source view for protected pages. are there other ways to access source code of a page except API, Special:Export, url parameter 'diff' and the actions 'raw', 'delete', 'revert', 'rollback', 'protect', 'unprotect', 'markpatrolled', 'deletetrackback', 'edit'? [18:50:31] enhydra, thanks [18:51:07] Subfader: yes [18:51:15] hmh which? :) [18:51:38] anything that calls the low level functions [18:51:53] i'm not talking about viwing the page but accessing the source code [18:52:21] you'd have to review all of the core code + extensions [18:52:42] 03(NEW) Add an icon to Wikinews for iPhone's & iPod Touch's - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19831 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (tristan.thomas) [18:53:20] hmmm [18:53:28] just me, or did somebody break praser tests? [18:53:35] MediaWikiPerformAction is returned false for all the actions mentioned and the url parameter 'diff' [18:53:39] probably [18:53:48] MediaWikiPerformAction should not be used by other extensions yes [18:54:33] brion: there were a bunch broken previously, but last I checked it was down to the 14 normal failures [18:54:44] 03(mod) Add an icon to Wikinews for iPhone's & iPod Touch's - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19831 +comment (10brion) [18:54:47] "" is not a valid magic thingie for "staticredirect" [18:54:47] MagicWordArray::parseMatch: parameter not found [18:54:47] Backtrace: [18:54:48] #0 /Library/WebServer/Documents/trunk/includes/MagicWord.php(665): MagicWordArray->parseMatch(Array) [18:54:59] oh, that [18:55:14] hmm huh [18:55:18] there's a bug somewhere for that... [18:55:48] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19574 [18:56:37] he. a mac... [18:56:57] .. /Library/WebServer [19:00:23] 04(REOPENED) Remove MediaWiki:noexactmatch usage. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19484 +comment (10spacebirdy) [19:02:43] 03(mod) Special:AbuseFilter/tools produce javascript error in IE7 when typing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19715 (10umherirrender_de.wp) [19:07:04] 03(mod) Provide clean interface for new-page template selection as on Wiktionary (was: Remove MediaWiki:noexactmatch usage.) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19484 summary; +comment (10brion) [19:07:10] 03(mod) Go and search button are confusing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577 (10brion) [19:10:29] 03(mod) Log events occasionally not logged - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12129 summary; +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [19:13:26] brion: are you sure that's more important for the topic than the alternate location for the tarball? :v [19:13:55] Emufarmers: the non-alternate location is fine atm so yes [19:14:57] Oh, kewl [19:15:41] 03(mod) jQuery is breaking mwsuggest preventing users of Opera 8 to log into en.wp - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19586 +comment (10brion) [19:16:47] 03(mod) PHP warning on opening 'my preferences' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19669 +comment (10brion) [19:21:15] 14(WFM) I am unable to login or use the search on certain pages, but search works fine on other pages. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19492 +comment (10brion) [19:22:55] 03(mod) Missing hook docs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19564 +easy; +comment (10brion) [19:23:02] who wants to document a couple hooks? quick and easy :D [19:24:40] 03(mod) PostgreSQL FK constraint oldimage_oi_name_fkey_cascade needs "ON UPDATE CASCADE" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19445 +patch (10brion) [19:28:35] *Splarka sticks some assorted insects and arachnids, and a scoop of icecream, in a cup and hands it to brion... "Bug Sundae?" [19:28:56] nom nom nom [19:30:43] could I get one of those without the arachnids? [19:31:54] apergos: depends, how goes download.wm restoration? ^_^ [19:32:33] 14(DUP) Order of transcluded templates changes between edit & preview views - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19426 +comment (10brion) [19:32:42] I found a few more tarballs and stuck em back up there [19:32:46] 03(mod) Template links on article preview page should be in alphanumeric (alphabetic) order - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12644 +comment (10brion) [19:32:48] 03(mod) "Templates used on this page" on section edit should show templates used in the section at initial edit as well as preview - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878 (10brion) [19:32:59] but someone just removed our warning and redirect to the archives, dunno why [19:33:06] I guess I"m going to put them back [19:33:23] *Splarka gives apergos a tar sundae [19:34:28] Splarka: Man, my English is escaping me. So does this phrase make grammatical sense; "Category:Commentaries participated by ". [19:34:29] if by tar you mean chocolate, I'll take it :-) [19:35:29] svip: hmm, it is ambiguous [19:35:34] svip: no, because you generally participate *in* something [19:35:49] I suppose. [19:35:52] (at least in modern English) [19:36:01] What about Commentaries with ? [19:36:16] that's better, yah [19:36:27] I'll pick it. [19:37:26] 03ialex * r53486 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialUpload.php: fix for r53483, use tabs for identations, not spaces :) [19:38:11] bah, no fair, 68F in SF, ~100F here [19:38:27] Ugh, SpecialUserlogin.php is a hornet's nest. [19:38:29] 03(mod) Special:UserRights not allowing Flood flag if user in not capitalised - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19519 +easy; +comment (10brion) [19:39:02] Lots of mysterious unexplained things going on. [19:41:13] not fair, fahrenheits [19:42:07] 293.15K and 310.92K [19:42:09] 03brion * r53487 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/DefaultSettings.php): * (bug 19355) Added .xhtml, .xht to upload file extension blacklist [19:42:24] 03(mod) $wgFileBlacklist should include 'xhtml' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19355 (10brion) [19:42:57] 03(FIXED) $wgFileBlacklist should include 'xhtml' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19355 +comment (10brion) [19:43:52] 03(mod) Special:UserRights not allowing Flood flag if user in not capitalised - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19519 +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [19:43:55] brion: I'll document the hooks if you take a look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16084#c8 \o [19:44:25] 03(mod) Special:UserRights not allowing Flood flag if user in not capitalised - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19519 (10mike.lifeguard) [19:45:13] 03rotem * r53488 10/trunk/phase3/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Localization update. [19:46:01] was the UploadComplete hook renamed? [19:46:29] don't think so [19:47:16] well there's SpecialUploadComplete now, and findHooks is saying UploadComplete doesn't exist [19:48:20] MrZ-man: try now :) [19:48:24] 03ialex * r53489 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/findhooks.php: add includes/upload/ to findhooks.php's path list [19:48:29] ah [19:59:26] 03brion * r53490 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/PageHistory.php): [19:59:26] * (bug 19287) Workaround for lag on history page in Firefox 3.5 [19:59:26] Added id attributes to diff radios and show/hide check boxes; this is to work [19:59:26] around a bug in Firefox 3.5 where form session saving hangs for a while after [19:59:26] each change when a page contains hundreds of anonymous radio and checkboxes. [20:00:01] 03(mod) Lag on history page in Firefox 3.5 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19287 (10brion) [20:00:25] 03(FIXED) Lag on history page in Firefox 3.5 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19287 +comment (10brion) [20:01:00] hrm [20:01:01] SELECT log_type,log_action,log_user,log_namespace,log_title,log_params,log_comment,log_id,log_deleted,log_timestamp,user_name,user_editcount,ts_tags FROM `logging` FORCE INDEX (PRIMARY) INNER JOIN `user` ON ((user_id=log_user)) INNER JOIN `log_search` FORCE INDEX (ls_field_val) ON ((ls_log_id=log_id)) LEFT JOIN `tag_summary` ON ((ts_log_id=log_id)) WHERE log_type = 'delete' AND log_action = 'revision' AND ls_field = 'rev_id' AND ls_value IN ('692', [20:01:30] Key 'ls_field_val' doesn't exist in table 'log_search' (localhost)". [20:02:43] looks like i probably had an intermediate ver of that table [20:02:50] brion: yes [20:02:54] there we go D: [20:02:56] all betters now [20:03:10] brion: ls_field_val was primary key on some versions [20:03:15] iirc [20:03:25] 03mrzman * r53491 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES docs/hooks.txt): (bug 19564) Update docs/hooks.txt [20:04:35] 03(mod) Missing hook docs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19564 +comment (10mrzmanwiki) [20:04:46] wheee :) [20:05:02] 14(INVALID) Invalid chars in the output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19828 +comment (10herd) [20:05:42] ^ someone doublecheck my assertion on that one? ^_^ [20:06:06] I wonder if he's expecting rvprop=content to be sanitized [20:07:07] sounds like [20:07:15] of course we shouldn't have invalid titles in db like this ;) [20:07:29] whatcha mean? [20:07:38] *ialex notes brion is in bugfix mode :) [20:07:48] that isn't an invalid title, it is the raw wikicode of a page, the bidi is stripped before the title is titled [20:08:33] titled :D [20:09:03] page content is: "#REDIRECT [[self:Dark Aura (Deactivating R.O.X.)\u200e\u200e\u200e]]" [20:09:15] but you'll notice: [20:09:16] [20:09:21] anywhere title touches it, it is correct [20:10:41] 03(mod) The search function on Wikipedia won't select (Modern + webkit browsers - Safari, Chrome) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19194 summary; +comment (10brion) [20:11:22] well then the content is just fine yes :D [20:14:14] *Splarka stabs brion per https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 [20:14:38] I have seen other people get src'd document.write cruft into [20:14:49] <wikibugs> 14(DUP) history.js blocks gecko browser (firefox 3.5) with 100% CPU when rendering long history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17240 +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [20:14:51] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Lag on history page in Firefox 3.5 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19287 +comment (10mike.lifeguard) [20:14:54] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Mozilla issues (Gecko, Firefox) (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1381 (10mike.lifeguard) [20:15:07] <Splarka> and why /not/ have the css dependant on dismissal? why spam the CSS on every pageload? [20:18:26] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Impossible to launch mediawiki (EmbedVideo extension) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18751 +patch (10brion) [20:21:41] <CIA-56> 03brion * r53492 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/Setup.php): [20:21:41] <CIA-56> * (bug 18751) Fix for buggage in profiling setup for some extensions on PHP 5.1 [20:21:41] <CIA-56> Patch by GreenReaper: http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=6246 [20:21:54] <wikibugs> 03(FIXED) Impossible to launch mediawiki (EmbedVideo extension) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18751 +comment (10brion) [20:22:50] <brion> Splarka: in what browsers? [20:23:13] <brion> feel free to recommend doing it in a non-shitty way, just make sure your reasons for it are clear :) [20:23:25] <Splarka> sigh [20:23:34] <Splarka> so I should have just said 'use appendCSS()' with no reasons? [20:23:49] <brion> that'd probably get closed as boring or LATER'd :) [20:24:14] <brion> no rush to replace it unless there's something actually broken [20:24:25] <Splarka> well, I think I know a thing or two about javascript: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/User:Splarka/ [20:24:32] <Splarka> but I browse wikipedia with JS disabled [20:24:36] <Splarka> thanks to central notice [20:24:41] <Splarka> so, whatever [20:24:55] <brion> can you elaborate, say with a complete sentence describing a sample problem? [20:25:20] <Splarka> whenever I do that, people just tell me to upgrade my browser [20:25:22] <brion> preferably examples rather than vague rumors [20:25:45] <brion> that someone, somewhere in the universe, might have a totally non-spec browser behavior that i've never seen or heard of [20:25:54] <brion> which afaik you've not seen or heard of either [20:26:01] <Splarka> hey, not /just/ me [20:26:37] <Splarka> I've seen other people have problems, with <script> and <style>'s being inserted into <textarea>, that were solved by replacing document.write/ln with importScript/Stylesheet [20:27:01] <brion> were these problems with CentralNotice specifically, loaded via a <script> in original HTML source? [20:27:10] <brion> or other scripts loaded via <script>s inserted into the DOM at runtime? [20:27:36] *Splarka checks the last one he remembers [20:27:39] <brion> thx [20:27:56] <brion> if you can include a reference link that'd be great [20:28:19] <Splarka> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Zocky/SearchBox.js&diff=228781445&oldid=106107955 [20:28:30] *Splarka checks his edits prior to that [20:29:07] <brion> ok, so the <script> loading that .js wouldn't be in original HTML source [20:29:17] <brion> it would have been added at runtime somewhere [20:29:41] <brion> if *that* was added by a document.write from the user monobook.js then it should I think be synchronous [20:29:45] <Splarka> sure, but I get the same effect with CentralNotice very randomly [20:29:50] <brion> if added by an importScript() call then it would show up who knows where [20:29:54] <Splarka> but I don't remember actually saving any pages with it [20:30:04] <Splarka> but, say about 50% of page loads have a corrupted <h1> [20:30:15] <brion> in what browser? [20:30:27] <brion> 50% of page loads sounds like we should have 6 billion complaints over the last 6 months [20:30:34] <brion> instead of none/almost none [20:30:49] <brion> can you describe in what way they're corrupted? [20:31:31] <Splarka> yes, missing [20:31:45] <Splarka> and Mozilla Firebird [20:31:49] <Splarka> <brion> OMG UPGRADE [20:32:26] <Splarka> (and quite a few edit page loads have no edit form) [20:33:42] <GreenReaper> If you don't upgrade, how will you be able to turn off the new Javascript bytecode features? <g> [20:33:43] <brion> you're using a 6-year old pre-alpha browser? [20:33:44] *Splarka wonders though if brion likes forcing people to see the CSS even when the sitenotice is dismissed, why does brion hate faster page rendering? :( [20:36:16] *Splarka reopens per that, since that isn't ambiguous or deniable [20:36:17] <Simetrical> Asynchronous document.write() is a bad idea. Is that what we're doing here? [20:36:38] <wikibugs> 04(REOPENED) improve/fix CentralNotice style loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 +comment (10herd) [20:36:56] *Splarka directs Simmy thar [20:37:07] <brion> Simetrical: no, synchronous [20:37:40] <Splarka> http://upload.wikimedia.org/centralnotice/test/en/centralnotice.js [20:38:28] <GreenReaper> Also you totally don't need the ; before the } in those style declarations. [20:38:38] <GreenReaper> or all of the spaces. :-p [20:39:01] <Splarka> GreenReaper: readability and editability [20:39:17] *Splarka adds some more spaces and semicolons to annoy GreenReaper [20:39:19] <GreenReaper> How hard is it to know you put a ; before adding a new style? [20:39:35] <Splarka> how hard is it to wait for 1 extra byte? [20:39:45] <GreenReaper> Harder than it needs to be. <g> [20:39:52] <Splarka> Green: seriously, your compression fetish is a bit out of hand [20:40:03] <Annemarie> I thought https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19673 was intentional behavior. [20:40:08] <Splarka> why don't you try reducing image sizes [20:40:18] <Annemarie> Surely it's no accident that the pages have &action=edit&redlink=1 [20:40:24] <GreenReaper> I have. WikiFur's logo is 2kb now. [20:40:41] <GreenReaper> Wikipedia's is too complex to get much further down unless you want to lose detail. [20:40:55] <Splarka> not logos [20:41:09] <Splarka> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:NewFiles [20:41:16] <GreenReaper> Thumbnails are already pretty small. [20:41:30] <Splarka> I am sure there are wasted bytes in most of the thumbnailers [20:41:47] <Splarka> and IIRC, exif data is still sent in all thumbnails, sometimes several hundred k worth [20:42:48] <GreenReaper> It doesn't look like it from here, perhaps you could find an example. [20:44:07] <GreenReaper> You may however be correct for PNG images, like the current featured article thumbnail. [20:46:16] <Splarka> hmm, musta been fixed [20:46:19] <GreenReaper> Frankly what should have been done for that image is convert it to 256 colours, which would cut the size by more than half. [20:46:33] <GreenReaper> I wonder if it would be possible to do that for thumbs below a particular size. [20:47:09] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Add an icon to Wikinews for iPhone's & iPod Touch's - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19831 (10tristan.thomas) [20:47:26] <GreenReaper> Or to try making a JPG and use whichever was smaller. <g> [20:47:47] <GreenReaper> but I don't know if MediaWiki could cope with the file being PNG but the thumbnail being JPG. [20:49:16] <Splarka> GreenReaper: haha [20:49:21] <Splarka> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Wikibar-alpha-8bit.png -> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Wikibar-alpha-8bit.png/99px-Wikibar-alpha-8bit.png [20:49:25] *Splarka hopes that burns [20:49:28] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Script introduces constructs that breaks xhtml - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11746 (10brion) [20:49:31] <wikibugs> 03(mod) improve/fix CentralNotice style loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 +comment (10brion) [20:49:32] <brion> Splarka: see my comment :) [20:50:25] <GreenReaper> Well, of course if you resize it *again* then you're gonna mess things up. I meant the thumbnailer itself should have converted the thumbnail to 8 bit. [20:50:28] <Splarka> "rumor of instability" [20:50:59] <Splarka> so 6 years old is ignorable, nice.. can we dump IE5/IE6 fixes yet? [20:51:16] <Annemarie> Was IE6 pre-alpha? [20:51:51] <wikibugs> 03(mod) improve/fix CentralNotice style loading - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19704 (10brion) [20:52:06] <Splarka> ugh, all IE are untested pieces of crap, Annemarie ^_^ [20:52:10] <brion> Splarka: if 20% of our users are running an ancient firebird nightly, we'll be happy to accomodate it :) [20:52:19] <brion> Splarka: added one more note :) [20:53:23] <Annemarie> Why does it have to load from Meta? [20:53:25] <Annemarie> Can't it sync with the local sites every X and load locally? [20:53:27] <Annemarie> The waiting is annoying. [20:53:32] <Splarka> > Not showing the CSS would simply result in the message being always shown. [20:53:43] <Splarka> why not just not generate the message? huh? [20:54:02] <Splarka> or, indeed, generate it with inline style="display:none;" [20:54:18] <Splarka> this is all written "at the last minute" but it never seems to get better year to year [20:54:21] <GreenReaper> We should have more things loading from meta, or some other central site. Then you wouldn't have to load another copy of the style and images if you went to another language. [20:54:30] <GreenReaper> better: some domain without cookies. [20:54:42] <Splarka> *facepalm* [20:54:56] <Splarka> heh, GreenReaper, skins/ were at upload.wikimedia for a while [20:55:06] <Splarka> everything was superfast, except when it wasn't, then it was superslow [20:55:15] <GreenReaper> some domain that *isn't* already overloaded. :-) [20:55:38] <brion> Splarka: try reading the rest of the paragraph dude [20:55:52] <GreenReaper> although upload would make sense if other images might be loaded from there, like the main page logo. [20:56:12] <Splarka> I did, which bit explains the questions? [20:56:31] <brion> Splarka: the part where CentralNotice is designed for collapse/show not dismissal :) [20:57:04] <brion> anyway i'd be much more interested in someone wanting to, say, actually implement clean code rather than trying to find ancient broken browsers that nobody uses [20:57:30] <brion> i've included a lot of information about the way it works at the moment and particular changes which could be made to make it cleaner -- and behave in a way you like [20:57:41] <brion> i hope you'll take it in that spirit [20:57:42] *Splarka then wonders why dismissable sitenotices are dismissable... [20:57:54] <Justme2> Hi. I have a question about template performance: Is a "#switch" a slow operation, if you have 961 (simple) cases? [20:57:57] <brion> because dismissable sitenotice is a shitty old hack we haven't got round to replaing [20:58:01] <Splarka> you mean {{sofixit}}, don't you [20:58:05] <Splarka> sigh [20:58:05] <brion> :) [20:58:13] <brion> wouldn't mind it [20:58:13] <Splarka> "shitty old hack" is not a valid excuse you know [20:58:35] <brion> otherwise at least constructive suggestions are nice [20:58:44] <brion> this is why i've been trying to figure out what you're actually complaining about, break it down into component issues, and make specific recommendations about them [20:59:17] <brion> is there anything specific you disagree with about my recommendations? [20:59:22] <Splarka> well, I am complaining about the whole insane concept [20:59:39] <brion> please note there's a difference between explaining the history and function of the current state and saying "no don't change it" [20:59:41] <Splarka> generating sitenotices with a horrible mix of inline and offsite CSS and JS [20:59:53] <brion> ok so it sounds like you agree with my recommendations [20:59:53] <Splarka> (both central and/or local) [21:00:09] <Splarka> the worst result, of which, is non-JS or noscript users never see it [21:00:27] <Splarka> the next-worse, as GreenReaper will agree, is bloated sources which aren't browser cached [21:01:00] <Splarka> and somewhere after that, inefficient and broken-in-ancient-browsers hastily written JS [21:01:04] <Splarka> that makes jesus cry [21:01:10] <Splarka> er, per bloated source: http://p.defau.lt/?Vt8Rpv3adoBL__2yP0o1Xg [21:01:22] <Splarka> that really doesn't need to be in the page source of /every/ page load on a wiki does it? [21:01:36] <brion> recommend some ways to trim it down cleanly [21:01:49] <Simetrical> Justme2, yes, probably. [21:02:00] <Splarka> sure, delete all that and stick it into wikibits.js or /extensions/DismissableSitenotice/crap.js [21:02:20] <GreenReaper> Put it into a <link> and then just have a brief <script> section that calls a function [21:02:26] <Splarka> (since extensions can apparently now load their own JS, per jquery) [21:02:33] <GreenReaper> or an onload or whatever. [21:02:42] <thedj> extension would be best [21:02:43] <GreenReaper> onload would probably look bad though. :-) [21:02:59] <brion> extensions have always been able to load their own JS [21:03:09] <Splarka> there is no good solution to non-js sitenotices not polluting search engine summaries [21:03:28] <brion> hence our explicit decision to say "so sad, non-js users. you chose this" [21:03:30] <Splarka> except that hackydoodle markup Google has toyed with, letting you mark blocks of non-archivable text [21:03:44] <Splarka> (or possibly it was just for ad context) [21:04:20] <Splarka> there are bad solutions, such as css :after, and having it in a floating div that has a fixed height and scrollness [21:05:04] <Justme2> @10Simetrical01: thx for the answer ... I've created a template which takes a little bit too long to execute ... And I don't think I did some bad stuff except for the huge #switch ... [21:05:42] <Justme2> hmmm ... sad. [21:05:48] <thedj> Justme2: can you disable those colors please? [21:06:44] <Justme2> sry, it was c&p of the name. [21:07:58] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Edit histories not preserved when moving categories - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17172 (10brion) [21:08:38] *Splarka thinks WMF needs a JS czar that knows how shit should work, nominates thedj [21:09:13] *brion just wants Splarka to describe reported JS problems accurately and completely [21:09:24] *Annemarie just wants dinner. [21:09:31] <brion> mmm, dinner :) [21:09:43] <Annemarie> Gotta go to the grocery store first. So lazy, though. :-( [21:09:49] <Splarka> brion: "don't use /foo/, it sucks" is accurate and complete on a 100 degree Sunday [21:09:51] <brion> Splarka: don't assume i hate you because i disagree over a detail of a bug report :) [21:10:28] <Splarka> but I was feeding on your hate:/ [21:10:45] <brion> awww [21:10:57] <Annemarie> Bah, I got duped? [21:11:29] <Annemarie> Not. My. Fault. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=linksearch doesn't return ... [21:11:39] <Annemarie> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 [21:11:40] <Annemarie> WTH. [21:11:59] <Splarka> brion: I would totally rewrite and redo everything in wikibits.js if I could be bothered to care, I'd even make it fallback for IE5 gracefully [21:12:02] <Annemarie> Oh, RESOLVED LATER? [21:12:06] <Annemarie> The fuck? [21:12:09] <Splarka> but as it is, I try to just report actual probs [21:12:19] <Simetrical> Holy crud, it's 5:12 PM already. [21:13:16] <Splarka> Annemarie: always, always, ALWAYS search for all status/resolutions when searching for dupes [21:13:21] <GreenReaper> Annemarie: Possibly a bug it depending on was resolved? [21:13:26] <wikibugs> 04(REOPENED) Namespace filter in Special:Linksearch on WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 +comment (10public) [21:13:30] <Annemarie> Splarka: Then always, always, always make it the default. [21:13:35] <GreenReaper> Or not. That's just odd. [21:13:50] <Splarka> yes, there is a bug about that, heh [21:14:05] <Annemarie> LATER should be rarely used anyway. [21:14:21] <Splarka> Annemarie: you'll also find bugs as closed/resolved for when an extension exists with the feature [21:14:22] <Annemarie> There's nothing wrong with an open bug that's going to take time and skill to fix. [21:14:46] <Annemarie> The difference between LATER and NEW is pretty silly. [21:15:08] <Splarka> are they mutually exclusive? [21:15:10] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Namespace filter in Special:Linksearch on WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs) [21:15:15] <Splarka> one is a status, one is a resolution [21:15:19] <wikibugs> 03(mod) ts_resortTable inconsistent trimming makes date sorting fragile - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17139 +comment (10brion) [21:15:39] <Splarka> Annemarie: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19650 [21:16:45] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Add namespace filter in Special:Linksearch in user interface - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 summary; +comment (10public) [21:17:03] <Annemarie> Hmmm, spam. [21:17:04] <brion> sigh [21:17:20] <CIA-56> 03siebrand * r53493 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (52 files): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-07-19 21:09 UTC) [21:17:21] <Splarka> heh, Annemarie: you's gonna start a witchhunt for inefficient API options [21:17:41] <Annemarie> It's already JOINing on page. Using page_namespace should be faster. Or something. [21:17:41] <Splarka> I betcha that has no index or table, so domas will probably have to kill it [21:17:57] <domas> hehehe [21:17:58] <domas> I SEE IT [21:18:10] <domas> why oh why [21:18:13] <domas> don't people get simple thing [21:18:49] <Annemarie> Features are good. Features are good. Features are good. [21:18:52] *Splarka hugs brion while sticking a "scap me" sign on his back [21:19:00] <domas> features are good [21:19:00] <Splarka> bbl, too friggen hot [21:19:07] <domas> but how do you imagine they should be implemented [21:19:19] <domas> see, we have this small problem with the whole project [21:19:25] <domas> it is big [21:19:27] <domas> and it has to grow [21:19:30] <Annemarie> Which project? Wikimedia? [21:19:34] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Make namespace filter in Special:Linksearch efficient enough to enable on WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10593 summary; +comment (10brion) [21:19:39] <domas> therefore we cannot afford O(N) or worse search algorithms [21:20:06] <srv_> I want to report a MediaWiki 1.15.1 bug, I have done a fresh installation on a Fedora web server but MediaWIki shows my hyperlinks as garbage [21:20:12] <srv_> see here: http://www.azadrahkar.org/fawiki/index.php/Garbage [21:20:29] <domas> it isn't garbage [21:20:31] <domas> it looks like modern art [21:20:38] <srv_> haa [21:20:39] <srv_> haha [21:20:42] <Annemarie> brion: The API can do it, though... It's the same heavy query..... [21:20:57] <srv_> it's a Persian installation of MediaWiki [21:21:05] <domas> annemarie: this will lead to API not being able to do it [21:21:07] <domas> if you do not get it [21:21:07] <brion> Annemarie: then the api should be fixed to disable it in miser mode as well until the query can be made efficient [21:21:08] <srv_> I haven't tried English yet [21:21:16] <Annemarie> Bah. [21:21:22] <Annemarie> Which part is expensive? [21:21:33] <domas> annemarie: scanning large datasets with low selectivity [21:21:48] <domas> I have an idea though [21:21:54] <Annemarie> You have el_index and page_namespace both working to make this faster, no? [21:22:01] <domas> annemarie: you're not getting it [21:22:05] <Annemarie> It should be scanning far fewer rows with a page_namespace selector. [21:22:07] <Annemarie> Clearly. ;-) [21:22:10] <domas> annemarie: one has to read all 'el' entries to verify them against page [21:22:22] <CIA-56> 03siebrand * r53494 10/trunk/extensions/ (56 files in 47 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from translatewiki.net (2009-07-19 21:09 UTC) [21:22:24] <domas> if page condition does not match, you continue scanning el entries [21:22:42] <domas> annemarie: you return smaller amount of rows, but you have to scan same one [21:22:49] <brion> basically, to fix this sort of thing we need to denormalize and include a source namespace item on the link tables [21:23:00] <Simetrical> Annemarie, you can only reduce number of rows scanned by using indexes on the first table in the join, not any subsequent ones. [21:23:12] <brion> which may not be the worst thing, but would require rebuilding parts of the link tables on cross-namespace page moves [21:23:16] <Simetrical> Subsequent tables' indexes can only be used to filter out rows after they've been scanned. [21:23:26] <domas> brion: well, then you'll have multiple indexes for nearly same operation [21:23:33] <brion> and you can still only do that efficiently with a single namespace i think, not a list or inverted check [21:23:35] <domas> brion: and links table indexes are our one of major costs in dbs [21:23:38] <brion> yeah, suxxors :( [21:24:04] <Annemarie> At the very least there should be a note in the UI about this being disabled. [21:24:10] <brion> we could make more efficient indexes using hashes instead of long URL/title strings maybe ;) [21:24:14] <Annemarie> Secretly making it disappear with MiserMode is bad behavior. [21:24:16] <brion> of course then they'll be in random order :D [21:24:21] *domas giggles [21:24:31] <brion> Annemarie: telling people what they can't do is pretty lame :) [21:24:41] <Annemarie> So fix that part first! ;-) [21:24:43] <domas> annemarie: well, those features were secretly sneaked in [21:24:49] <domas> annemarie: that is also bad behavior [21:24:56] <domas> some people think they can add any feature they like [21:25:03] <domas> as long as they don't get used, we probably don't notice that [21:25:04] <Annemarie> For most wikis, it's not a problem at all. [21:25:09] <domas> what do you mean? [21:25:13] <Annemarie> It's with huge data sets like WMF wikis that it's an issue. [21:25:21] <Annemarie> The queries on my wiki with six pages wouldn't cause a problem. [21:25:38] <domas> *shrug*, maybe it should give a message on _your_ wiki [21:25:41] <domas> that the feature is _enabled_ [21:25:46] <domas> not on our, that it is _disabled_? :) [21:25:58] <Annemarie> Uh, the users can see the selector on my wiki. :P [21:26:02] <CIA-56> 03brion * r53495 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [21:26:02] <CIA-56> * (bug 17139) ts_resortTable inconsistent trimming makes date sorting fragile [21:26:02] <CIA-56> Added a trim on the sort key preprocessing as well as the picking of the preprocessor [21:26:11] *GreenReaper found that just adding credits cut the amount of pages that could be rendered by 20% [21:26:21] <Simetrical> Annemarie, we should not have UI that tells users "Hey, guess what, you can't use a feature here that you could have used on some totally different site you don't care about." [21:26:22] <wikibugs> 03(FIXED) ts_resortTable inconsistent trimming makes date sorting fragile - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17139 +comment (10brion) [21:26:35] <Simetrical> They use Wikipedia, they don't care about MediaWiki. [21:26:43] <Annemarie> Simetrical: Seen the number of dupes for that bug? [21:26:49] <Simetrical> And? [21:26:56] <domas> brion: did you see, someone committed a hack that filters out entries at PHP for some stupid query [21:26:58] <Annemarie> We should say "Hey, we know this sucks. Already filed." [21:27:05] <domas> brion: when will people learn? [21:27:15] <domas> so [21:27:15] <Annemarie> Or, "Hey, psst, use the API until someone disables that too." [21:27:18] <domas> so [21:27:20] <domas> can anyone tell [21:27:30] <domas> why would external-links-by-namespace feature [21:27:36] <domas> satisfy say... 50k$ expenditure? [21:27:45] <Annemarie> Finding spam is important. [21:27:52] <Simetrical> Annemarie, nobody cares. Except the practically nobody who files bugs. [21:28:01] <Annemarie> User subpages clutter results. Articles are important. Everything else isn't. [21:28:03] <domas> annemarie: how per-namespace thing helps you to find spam better? [21:28:19] <domas> why would spam in user subpages be much worse than spam in other pages? [21:28:21] <Annemarie> Simetrical: The people who use Special:LinkSearch care.... their results are currently crap. [21:28:36] <srv_> where do i get email help from? [21:28:49] <Simetrical> srv_, you mean like help with email, or help over email? [21:28:56] <Annemarie> domas: I think [[Barack Obama]] is a much bigger spam target than [[User:Foo/bar/baz]]. Esp. in terms of page views. [21:29:02] <srv_> help over email [21:29:07] <domas> srv: interesting, btw [21:29:12] <domas> srv: html shows proper content [21:29:14] <srv_> :) [21:29:30] <domas> srv: so it is mainly CSS issue [21:29:35] <srv_> may be it's MonoBook.css [21:29:38] <srv_> yeah [21:29:39] <domas> or font issue [21:29:49] <wikibugs> 14(INVALID) userCan should not override wgGroupPermissions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17116 +comment (10brion) [21:29:50] <domas> as I see, you edited your css [21:29:55] <srv_> no not a font issue, looks the same on Windows and Linux [21:29:59] <domas> mhm [21:30:37] <srv_> I forgot, I have the Tahoma font on linux as well [21:31:10] <srv_> but I've been running a wiki for 3 years but didn't stumble upon this bug [21:31:25] <domas> annemarie: so, in the 'clutter', how much userpages take, and how much articles take? [21:31:33] <srv_> s/didn't/hadn't/ [21:31:42] <Annemarie> domas: Try finding twitter.com links in articles only. [21:31:51] <Annemarie> Or myspace.com links. [21:31:59] <Annemarie> They're fine for user pages, not fine for articles. [21:32:03] <Annemarie> Usually. [21:33:53] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Flood flag option on cs.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19589 +shell (10danny.leinad) [21:34:43] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Enable flood flag on Simple English Wikiquote - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19152 +shell (10danny.leinad) [21:37:42] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Flood flag option on cs.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19589 +comment (10danny.b) [21:40:41] <CIA-56> 03minuteelectron * r53496 10/trunk/extensions/Wikidata/OmegaWiki/Wikidata.php: [21:40:41] <CIA-56> Wikidata: [21:40:41] <CIA-56> * Title::touchArray() is no longer present after around r22000, replace with $wgTitle->invalidateCache() (the function was only being used to invalidate the cache for the $wgTitle object). [21:41:27] *anomie reads the discussion above [21:41:30] <anomie> So basically, it's not evil to select rows "where X", but it is to select rows "where X" and then filter out the rows that don't also have "Y"? [21:44:47] <Simetrical> anomie, no. It's not evil to select rows "where X" as long as that condition can be satisfied without scanning many extra rows. [21:45:00] <Simetrical> The exact conditions under which that will be the case are complicated. [21:45:34] <Simetrical> Generally, if the condition is reasonably selective (eliminates a significant percentage of rows), it needs to be satisfied by the index being used for retrieval. [21:45:56] <Simetrical> Generally MySQL can only use one index for retrieval, and only in certain ways, so when exactly an index is usable gets complicated. [21:46:37] <anomie> Simetrical- But getting the exact same number of rows that would be returned "where X" and returning only those also matching Y (which may result in zero being returned) is described as a horrible dirty hack and laughed at. Despite it saving everyone involved the bandwidth of transferring those rows that are going to be ignored anyway. [21:46:49] <Simetrical> What? [21:47:23] <domas> there're 4500 twitter links on enwiki [21:47:27] <domas> :) [21:49:04] <Skizzerz> ... [21:49:17] <Skizzerz> I want to shoot whoever made the l10n_cache table [21:49:38] <Simetrical> That's Tim-away, isn't it? [21:49:49] <Skizzerz> because I cannot add it in via update.php because it does a query in the init process [21:52:19] <OverlordQ> thought that was fixed [21:52:43] <domas> I think we should start writing our DBMS [21:52:46] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Global deleted image review for Commons admins - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14801 +comment (10maarten) [21:52:54] <domas> the one that provides quick answers to all user questions [21:52:58] <OverlordQ> only thing that still causes that is some extension iirc [21:53:24] <Skizzerz> hmm [21:53:28] *Skizzerz tries disabling extensions [21:54:31] <roberthl> Does anyone know if there were any issues at the time upgrading from the old password format to the new one? [21:55:02] *Skizzerz would assume not, since mediawiki is backward-compat with the old format [21:55:40] <wikibugs> 03(CLOSED) New Meta keyword entry added each time addWikiText is called - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7614 +comment (10dean) [21:55:49] <roberthl> Hmm, I just upgraded from r20000 to r22000 and can no longer log in. [21:56:07] <OverlordQ> 22000? that's really really really old [21:56:54] <roberthl> I know, I'm gradually upgrading it since it uses an extension designed to run on a branch of about MediaWiki r20000. [21:57:28] <roberthl> Skizzerz: Thought that was the case, will have to do some more testing. [21:57:28] <OverlordQ> if it's written for something that old [21:57:40] <OverlordQ> it'd be better to just rewrite the extension [21:57:45] <roberthl> not really [21:58:11] <Skizzerz> note that r22000 might have issues of its own with that [21:58:22] <roberthl> It's a quite complex extension and I've only encountered 1 issue in 2000 revisions.. [21:58:24] <Skizzerz> since bugs do get introduced along with features [21:58:34] <roberthl> Sure, I'll keep upgrading and see what happens. [21:58:41] <roberthl> Add a separate user for now. [21:59:24] <OverlordQ> must fill a very niche use case then [22:00:24] <roberthl> I know of only one wiki that uses it, so I guess so - but the fact it required a branch of MediaWiki stopped most people using it anyway. [22:01:59] <Skizzerz> what does the ext do? [22:02:17] <CIA-56> 03simetrical * r53497 10/trunk/phase3/ (11 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed) [22:02:17] <CIA-56> Add experimental new auth framework, ExternalAuth [22:02:17] <CIA-56> This should not affect any existing behavior. (Except that it reorders [22:02:17] <CIA-56> some error conditions in attemptAutoCreate(), but probably no one cares [22:02:17] <CIA-56> about that.) It adds a new database table, but it will be unused unless [22:02:20] <CIA-56> you enable external authentication. [22:02:20] <Simetrical> Whee. That's the largest amount of MediaWiki coding I've done at a stretch for some time. [22:02:22] <CIA-56> An outline of the rationale for this system, and the design planning, is [22:02:34] *Simetrical waits for people to review. [22:02:57] <roberthl> Skizzerz: OmegaWiki [22:02:59] <OverlordQ> !r 53497 [22:02:59] --mwbot-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/53497 [22:03:56] *Skizzerz isn't touching the review dropdown with a 10-foot stick [22:04:00] <Skizzerz> way too complicated for me :P [22:05:28] <Simetrical> Coward! [22:05:37] <Simetrical> I skim complicated commits. [22:05:38] <Simetrical> Sometimes. [22:06:28] <Skizzerz> by the dropdown I meant the thing that says ok/deferred/fixme/etc. [22:07:20] <OverlordQ> roberthl: which extension and what does it actually do? [22:07:24] <Simetrical> Ah. [22:07:37] <Simetrical> I've heard of OmegaWiki. Is that dead yet? [22:07:43] <Simetrical> Wasn't it like SMW or something? [22:09:09] <domas> nono [22:09:11] <domas> omegawiki was wikidata [22:09:12] <domas> :) [22:09:19] <roberthl> Yeah. ^^ [22:09:35] <roberthl> Still fairly active. [22:20:00] <Nikerabbit> meow [22:29:23] <Annemarie> <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ExternalAuth>. [22:29:26] <Annemarie> Rage. [22:31:43] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Garbage in Special:Preferences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19820 (10bugzilla.wikimedia) [22:32:26] <infinisoft> Where is the alternate place I can download Extension:Parserfunctions for 1.15.x? [22:34:53] <OverlordQ> svn [22:34:59] <wikibugs> 03(NEW) Xml::listDropDown will not recognize the $selected parameter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19832 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (lhridley) [22:35:38] <Simetrical> Heh, I wanted to show this to Splarka: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1307769&cid=28748623 [22:36:23] <OverlordQ> lol [22:36:36] *OverlordQ wonders how many alerts WP would generate [22:48:45] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Xml::listDropDown will not recognize the $selected parameter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19832 (10lhridley) [22:51:21] <CIA-56> 03siebrand * r53498 10/trunk/extensions/ (13 files in 3 dirs): [22:51:21] <CIA-56> * use wfLoadExtensionMessages now that Wikidata can run on MediaWiki 1.11 (Yay Robert!) [22:51:21] <CIA-56> * update Translate accordingly [22:51:21] <CIA-56> * update formatting of i18n file and add a message from SpecialCopy.php [22:52:40] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Xml::listDropDown will not recognize the $selected parameter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19832 (10brion) [22:54:12] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Unwatched recent changes page via rc_watched - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18790 (10mk45654) [23:00:57] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Xml::listDropDown will not recognize the $selected parameter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19832 +comment (10brion) [23:04:46] <wikibugs> 03(WONTFIX) Re-enable previewing with GET requests - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3693 +comment (10brion) [23:06:15] <wikibugs> 03(NEW) Please make IP address search behavior configurable - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19833 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Search; (robe) [23:11:07] <wikibugs> 03(WONTFIX) Exact search for titles using php meta / escape characters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4601 trivial->15enhancement; +comment (10brion) [23:13:28] <wikibugs> 14(DUP) "diff=cur" on a redirect page shows the latest diff on the target page, with no "redirected from" message - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4973 +comment (10brion) [23:13:30] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Diffs should assume redirect=no - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17159 +comment (10brion) [23:22:18] <wikibugs> 03(NEW) Language Selection - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19834 enhancement; Normal; Wikipedia Mobile: server; (hcatlin) [23:22:40] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Improved 500 page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19113 summary (10hcatlin) [23:24:07] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Indicate Blank Article Links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19489 summary (10hcatlin) [23:31:45] <CIA-56> 03minuteelectron * r53499 10/trunk/extensions/Wikidata/patches/ (8 files): Consolidate OmegaWiki patches in to one file and update readme to note these are now targetted at r40000. [23:33:24] <wikibugs> 14(INVALID) Firefox shows #column-one formatting across the entire page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6825 +comment (10brion) [23:34:41] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Make external editor launch from a separate tab than 'edit' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7092 +comment (10brion) [23:36:06] <wikibugs> 14(INVALID) Some templates are not properly detected by flexbisonparse - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7110 +comment (10brion) [23:39:50] <wikibugs> 14(DUP) Link to subpage in header shows incorrect link in history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6252 +comment (10brion) [23:39:52] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Short notation links to subpages don't work in edit summaries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14080 +comment (10brion) [23:40:37] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Short notation links to subpages don't work in edit summaries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14080 (10brion) [23:41:23] <wikibugs> 03(mod) Xml::listDropDown will not recognize the $selected parameter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19832 (10lhridley)