[00:05:14] <Mike_lifeguard>	p858snake: Meta Admins don't have anything to do with Special:SiteMatrix - you're thinking of interwiki map
[00:06:09] <p858snake>	well i was just guessing that since it was on meta >.>
[00:17:29] <Mike_lifeguard>	p858snake: it's on every wiki
[00:17:31] <Mike_lifeguard>	that's the point
[00:18:26] <CIA-69>	03tparscal * r53990 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (12 files in 7 dirs): Changed references to jQuery to be compatible with the upcoming switch to js2 - also cleaned up some toolbar code, moving the majority of the code into it's own plugin.
[00:22:38] <CIA-69>	03conrad * r53991 10/USERINFO/conrad: Adding myself to USERINFO
[00:23:19] *AaronSchulz 	wonders what the WMF electric bill are
[00:23:43] <Alphos>	how are tildes-based signatures treated when sent through the API ?
[00:23:52] <Alphos>	as if they were posted by a human ?
[00:24:17] <Alphos>	or is it necessary to put the "substed" signature in wikitext ?
[00:24:30] <cirwin>	Alphos: for page editing, they are treated as normal
[00:24:36] <Alphos>	ok :)
[00:24:38] <cirwin>	for parsing, you need to specify &pst=
[00:24:48] <cirwin>	in order to expand them, and subst:
[00:24:51] <Alphos>	i meant for page editing
[00:25:13] <CIA-69>	03tparscal * r53992 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/UsabilityInitiative.hooks.php: Fixed bug that prevented $wgEnableJS2system from being properly detected.
[00:25:24] <Alphos>	so if i send '~~~~' as appendtext, it will show as my usual signature, right ?
[00:25:32] <cirwin>	should do
[00:27:09] <Alphos>	thanks :)
[00:30:49] <CIA-69>	03conrad * r53993 10/trunk/extensions/Transliterator/Transliterator.php: Add the "answer" parameter to override, some edge-case handling
[00:46:04] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Link text shouldn't be duplicated in title attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542  (10jchang641+bugzilla)
[01:03:49] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r53994 10/tags/extensions/Maps/: Directory for Maps extension
[01:04:49] <CIA-69>	03dale * r53995 10/trunk/extensions/WikiAtHome/WikiAtHome.sql: updated schema
[01:04:56] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r53996 10/tags/extensions/Maps/REL_0_2/: Tag for version 0.2
[01:05:52] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r53997 10/tags/extensions/SemanticMaps/: Directory for Semantic Maps extesnion
[01:06:35] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r53998 10/tags/extensions/SemanticMaps/REL_0_2/: Tag for version 0.2
[01:24:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Link text shouldn't be duplicated in title attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542   +need-review (10jchang641+bugzilla)
[01:28:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20000  +comment (10Emufarmers)
[01:30:12] <CIA-69>	03dale * r53999 10/trunk/phase3/js2/mwEmbed/ (3 files in 3 dirs): refactored get token to mv_embed global function
[01:51:57] <hansengel>	hi guys
[01:52:06] <hansengel>	I've been digging through code for a while..
[01:52:15] <hansengel>	is there any tutorial on creating interlanguage links?
[01:55:46] <Emufarmers>	Maybe you should try digging through the documentation instead of the code
[01:56:47] <hansengel>	Emufarmers: already tried that :S
[01:56:58] <hansengel>	oh.
[01:57:00] <hansengel>	gosh.
[01:57:10] <hansengel>	maybe I should get the 'Interlanguage' extension
[01:58:47] <Emufarmers>	Not sure it'll help you; you probably want http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Interwiki#Interwiki_links_to_other_languages
[01:59:51] <hansengel>	gah
[01:59:53] <hansengel>	the only problem
[02:00:01] <hansengel>	I don't want to install multiple wikis
[02:00:14] <hansengel>	I just want like /wiki/fr:Accueil
[02:00:25] <hansengel>	not sure if that's possible with interlanguage links
[02:00:37] <Emufarmers>	Doesn't sound like you want interlanguage links, then; set up a namespace
[02:01:21] <hansengel>	but I want that nice convenient box :D
[02:01:38] <Emufarmers>	I want a pony
[02:01:44] <hansengel>	hah
[02:02:08] <p858snake>	i want a job
[02:02:31] <Emufarmers>	p858snake: what skills do you have?
[02:05:34] <p858snake>	cert 1 in word education / cert 2 in workplace practises / cert 1,2,3 in Information Technology (Networking) / HS / pre press management (page bleed ect) / page design and layout / basic knowledge in HTML CSS and PHP
[02:06:01] <p858snake>	and i'm currently doing my Dipolma in Information Techonogly (Networking)
[02:06:10] <p858snake>	also i suck at spelling today
[02:06:10] <Emufarmers>	Pre press management?
[02:07:22] <p858snake>	its to do with page management before production, eg: ensuring bleeds and margins are correct, photos are correct sizes, photos are correct formats, pages exported to correct formats and such
[02:07:48] <Emufarmers>	Sounds boring :|
[02:08:55] <p858snake>	i liked it because i'm more of a behind the scenes type person compared to the page design and layout type
[02:15:25] <charitwo>	rar
[02:15:56] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20000
[02:16:55] *Splarka 	wants bug #0
[02:17:05] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: see my comment :D
[02:17:35] <Splarka>	03(NEW) Zero index me baby - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=0 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: Bugzilla; (herd)
[02:28:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) No message shown anymore (blank) after flagging [if JavaScript is disabled] - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19981  (10Wiki.Melancholie)
[02:40:33] <Splarka>	hansengel: you can interlang as a loopback
[02:40:51] <Splarka>	just make all the URLs point back to your wiki, like http://yourdomain/index.php/$1
[02:41:08] <hansengel>	ok
[02:41:12] <hansengel>	so do I need to add an interwiki
[02:41:16] <hansengel>	for each language?
[02:41:17] <Splarka>	then you can, on [[foobar]] put [[de:zis ist zas foobar!]]
[02:41:29] <Splarka>	and on there you can put [[en:foobar]]
[02:41:42] <Splarka>	well, yah
[02:42:03] <Splarka>	if you set an interwiki that matches one of the language prefixes in /languages/Names.php it magically becomes an interlang
[02:42:13] <Splarka>	you can't have namespaces matching these prefixes though
[02:42:28] <Splarka>	though one school of thought is to have subpages, like...
[02:42:46] <Splarka>	on [[Main Page]]: [[de:Main Page/de]] [[fr:Main Page/fr]] etc
[02:43:18] <hansengel>	Splarka: ok I'll try that
[02:43:19] <hansengel>	thanks :)
[02:43:23] *Splarka 	transforms p858snake into a pony and gives him to Emufarmers
[02:43:44] *p858snake 	stampeeds Splarka
[02:43:51] <Dr_DBW>	How / where is information stored in the DB about where uploaded files are located?  I have looked at the image table, but doesn't appear to be anything there about the location of the files.
[02:43:56] <Splarka>	what, you got a job, and emu got a pony!
[02:44:15] <hansengel>	hah
[02:44:41] <Dr_DBW>	Reason asking, I have an issue with two files.  The copies on the server are fine, if you direct a browser to the files, they display fine.
[02:45:02] <Dr_DBW>	However, on the pages and categories that the pages are displayed on, the pages simply fail to load, you get a 500 error.
[02:45:15] <Splarka>	Dr_DBW: $wgUploadPath and $wgUploadDirectory and $wgHashedUploadDirectory determine it I'd guess
[02:45:20] <Dr_DBW>	Seems to point to me that the DB has something messed up in it.
[02:46:00] <hansengel>	Splarka: so if I add languages into this array
[02:46:08] <hansengel>	and add a row for each language in _interwiki
[02:46:16] <Dr_DBW>	Splarka: thanks, yes that is the directory they are located in.  I mean the location of a particular file.  Witihn the upload directory it is broken up into 1, 2 first level, then 11, 12 etc second level.
[02:46:17] <hansengel>	and then add [[iso:Foo]] into a page
[02:46:21] <hansengel>	it should work fine?
[02:46:57] <Dr_DBW>	So a file may be in 9/91/Image_file.jpg
[02:47:00] <Splarka>	hansengel: dunno, give it a try, all greek to me
[02:47:20] <Splarka>	Dr_DBW: that is static based on the MD5 of the filename
[02:47:27] <Splarka>	no need to store anything but the name in the DB
[02:47:36] <Dr_DBW>	Where in the DB is the 9/91 information stored? Ahhh, OK.
[02:47:49] <Splarka>	$md5(Wiki.png) -> bc32c4ef985f1924664e5f5c7359ef62
[02:47:51] <Splarka>	gives b/bc/
[02:48:01] <Dr_DBW>	That is what I wanted to know.  Makes sense now.
[02:48:02] <Splarka>	note uppercase and omission of namespace
[02:48:23] <Dr_DBW>	So I can check the md5 for the file, check that against what is stored in the DB, and if they are the same, then that isn't the issue.
[02:48:52] <Splarka>	there are some maintenance scripts to fix db/file inconsistency issues, maybe
[02:49:03] <Splarka>	or you could just delete/undelete, or try reupload? maybe
[02:49:42] <Dr_DBW>	Thank you very much Splarka, got a couple of things to try out now.  Much appreciated.
[02:49:48] <Splarka>	rar
[02:50:45] *Splarka 	gives p858snake a sugar cube
[02:52:34] <hansengel>	why is iw_url in the interwiki table a BLOB? o_O
[02:58:02] <hansengel>	Splarka: woo! worked.
[02:58:06] <hansengel>	thank you
[03:37:46] <p858snake>	say if you gave all users (*) the edit permission but created a second group with the edit permission, would that still create the second group that you could put people in?
[03:39:48] <Annemarie>	It should.
[03:55:06] <RichardJ87>	I'm using javascript code in MediaWiki:Common.js to create a Date object. The problem is that when a Date object is created it's time is based of the client's system time. I however want it to use the server time. I found this possible solution but was wondering whether it'd be possible in mediawiki - http://javascript.internet.com/time-date/serverdate-to-javascript.html. Or if anyone had another solution of how to get the server time through java
[03:55:06] <RichardJ87>	script that'd be great
[03:58:05] <Splarka>	RichardJ87: you mean you want it to use the timezone set in $wgLocaltimezone ?
[03:58:18] <Splarka>	or UTC
[03:58:46] <Splarka>	or you want the minutes/seconds based on the server's clock, rather than the client's clock?
[03:59:05] <RichardJ87>	yeah I want the minutes/seconds to be based on the server's clock 
[03:59:17] <Splarka>	ahh, less easy...
[03:59:28] <Splarka>	but you could make an API call like...
[04:00:13] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=parse&pst=1&text=~~~~~%0A{{CURRENTTIMESTAMP}}
[04:00:38] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?format=jsonfm&action=parse&pst=1&text=~~~~~%0A{{CURRENTTIMESTAMP}}
[04:00:59] <Splarka>	if you have parserfunctions you could get unix time...
[04:01:27] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?format=jsonfm&action=parse&pst=1&text=%7B%7B%23time%3AU%7D%7D
[04:01:57] <Splarka>	create a new date object, and .setTime() it with that
[04:03:10] <RichardJ87>	I haven't used the API like that before, not seeing what that does exactly. Is there a guide for using the API somewhere?
[04:03:23] <RichardJ87>	well, haven't used the API fullstop
[04:04:02] <RichardJ87>	but yeah I agree with the solution, I just need to get the server time in a format that I can set the Date object with
[04:13:06] <CIA-69>	03nad * r54000 10/trunk/extensions/RecordAdmin/RecordAdmin.php: fix bug in new 'edit with form' link
[04:14:31] <Splarka>	RichardJ87: it is rather annoying to get it working from ISO8601 and signatures
[04:14:57] <Splarka>	better to use #time:U and then adjust the timezone manually (if at all)
[04:18:01] <CIA-69>	03nad * r54001 10/trunk/extensions/RecordAdmin/RecordAdmin.php: fix better
[04:21:24] <infinisoft>	Is there a way to include uploaded text files inline into a page?
[04:25:52] <Splarka>	RichardJ87: http://p.defau.lt/?t_TXLj43uGEVcGHrh2nBaQ
[04:26:34] <Splarka>	this requires ParserFunctions #time, also time + '000' is because setTime expects milliseconds
[04:28:14] <Splarka>	one could, also, I suppose, set a global scoped time object when making the importScriptURI call, and check it against another when the callback activates, and find the time difference, and divide by two, and add that half difference to the setTime time, to offset for the round trip lag
[04:28:44] <Splarka>	mmm, also that is cached, hmm
[04:30:12] <RichardJ87>	but is it possible in Common.js javascript code to just go dateObject.setTime({{time:U}} * 1000); 
[04:31:36] <Splarka>	nope, because it isn't expanded
[04:31:42] <Splarka>	javascript is loaded with action=raw
[04:31:48] <Splarka>	and is also agressively cached
[04:31:58] <Splarka>	you have to make a separate call
[04:34:51] <RichardJ87>	How do I do that?
[04:35:04] <Splarka>	per my last example
[04:35:08] <Splarka>	importScriptURI or ajax
[04:35:11] <Splarka>	http://p.defau.lt/?HjJlc6sVSvxiAG2v8ICezA
[04:35:20] <Splarka>	here, this one auto-calculates the round trip lag and offsets for it
[04:36:16] <Splarka>	oops
[04:36:35] *Splarka 	fixes mistake, heh
[04:36:36] <Splarka>	http://p.defau.lt/?hrUZjazc1upsDg28wXasmA
[04:36:37] <Splarka>	there
[04:37:06] <RichardJ87>	ta
[04:37:16] <Splarka>	but requires ParserFunctions extension
[04:37:24] <Splarka>	can be done without, but much more raw string parsing to get a useable date
[04:48:53] <Splarka>	Great eBarrier Reef fail: http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25851450-5018992,00.html
[04:49:07] *Splarka 	Nelson Muntzs that
[04:53:35] <Splarka>	http://www.oregonlibraries.net/images/pornography.jpg
[04:54:21] <p858snake>	is that nsw or qld's block?
[04:54:38] <apergos>	awesome
[04:54:55] <Splarka>	nsw it looks like
[04:55:15] <Splarka>	oh, that last pic? I think unrelated. but funny
[05:26:57] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54003 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMaps/SemanticMaps.i18n.php: Follow-up r54002: Fix encoding crap introduced in r53978
[05:46:43] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54004 10/trunk/extensions/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
[05:46:43] <CIA-69>	* Update extension credits
[05:46:43] <CIA-69>	* Add to translatewiki
[05:49:11] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54005 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/mediawiki-defines.txt: Follow-up r54004: Fix optionale message key
[06:15:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change autoconfirmed settings on plwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19993  (10wpedzich)
[07:07:12] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Page shown as draft after being sighted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18419  +comment (10zolithemexican)
[07:09:35] <luca>	Question: how do I delete (empty) a mediawiki db entirely, in order to run mwdumper and load content once more? (I don't want to delete the db, just empty it). Is there a simpler way than truncating all tables?
[07:17:16] <Duesentrieb>	luca: if you want an empty wiki, install a new one,
[07:19:02] <luca>	I was trying to avoid that...
[07:19:16] <luca>	Oh well.  
[07:20:06] <luca>	Because I am testing something, so I will need to repeatedly empty it I guess.  I will write a script. 
[07:22:02] <luca>	Thanks, and nice to talk to you, btw!
[07:22:40] <phr34k>	maybe it's the wrong place to ask but about mwlib, i just noticed centos can do yum install python-mwlib
[07:23:36] <phr34k>	would that install only bin, or also everything so i can make adjustments where necceary (i read mwlib are python scripts) so i don't really know what to expect.
[07:36:11] <Duesentrieb>	phr34k: if it doesn't include the source, there would be a package called python-mwlib-src or python-mwlib-dev that does.
[07:36:55] <Duesentrieb>	if all else fails... http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki/mwlib
[07:37:52] <Duesentrieb>	luca: install a fresh wiki. them make a database dump. then test. import dump. test. rinse, repeat.
[07:38:13] <Duesentrieb>	luca: mysqldump is handy!
[07:38:56] <luca>	Good idea.  But truncating tables is also easy.  My only worry is if empty tables are NOT an appropriate start for mwdumper, but from other info I found, they seem to be. 
[07:39:11] <Duesentrieb>	depends on the table
[07:39:21] <Duesentrieb>	emptying the interwiki is probablöy not what you want
[07:39:26] <Duesentrieb>	the user table could be annoying to
[07:39:47] <Duesentrieb>	so, get the wiki into whatever state you want, with ot without content, and make a snapshot, aka dump
[07:39:54] <Duesentrieb>	that way, you can go back whenever you like.
[07:40:19] <luca>	But I would have anyway to truncate the tables before I import the dump. 
[07:41:32] <luca>	Anyway, good idea, I will do now a dump.  It's also that I have the wiki with LocalSettings.php and some files below that all ready, and installing a new wiki cleans that as well, which is not what I want. 
[07:41:49] <luca>	I want to keep the extensions in place.
[08:43:40] <CIA-69>	03vasilievvv * r54006 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialVersion.php: Use $wgFileExtensions to check whether SVG is enabled
[08:48:01] <mgrant_>	Could someone please give me a clue how to transclude a page from an exteral media wiki site like transcluding a defnition for some word in wikipedia in my own mediawiki site?
[08:49:37] <luca>	If the php code of mediawiki encounters any errors, where are they logged?
[08:49:45] <werdna>	!wg EnableScaryTransclusion
[08:49:45] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgEnableScaryTransclusion
[08:49:49] <werdna>	luca: depends on your PHP settings
[08:50:02] <luca>	?
[08:50:17] <luca>	Which config file?
[08:51:32] <luca>	Ah, I see, /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini seems to contain some configuration info...? 
[08:54:10] <tbert>	should be a very simple question; I'd like to start using the "collapsible list" template, but am unable to locate it; if anyone could shed some light, i'd owe you a metaphorical beer
[09:06:30] <mgrant_>	thanks.  I read up on scary transclusion, I didn't see how to transclude from a remote site though.  Is it possible?
[09:07:02] <Annemarie>	tbert: The show / hide thing?
[09:07:26] <Annemarie>	It's JavaScript.
[09:08:40] <Duesentrieb>	mgrant_: scary transclusion is always about remote sites. what exactly are you trying to do?
[09:09:09] <Annemarie>	You have to set iw_trans in the interwiki table.
[09:09:10] <mgrant_>	I'm trying to suck a page in from the ballotpedia site into another media wiki site
[09:09:19] <Annemarie>	But I have no idea how to do that.
[09:09:35] <Duesentrieb>	you do it with sql.
[09:09:41] <Annemarie>	Scary.
[09:09:50] <Duesentrieb>	that'S *not* the scary bit...
[09:10:16] <Duesentrieb>	mgrant_: you have to set up an interwiki prefix for it. then you can just use {{prefix:pagename}}
[09:10:41] <mgrant_>	ahh, ok, that makes more sense, where does one set up those prefixes?
[09:10:41] <werdna>	You can also export from that wiki and import into your local wiki
[09:10:52] <Duesentrieb>	!interwiki | mgrant_
[09:10:52] --mwbot--	mgrant_: Interwiki links are links between wikis. For instance, on Wikibooks, [[w:Article name]] or [[Wikipedia:Article name]] will link to a Wikipedia article. To set up interwiki links, see <http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Guide_to_setting_up_interwiki_linking> and <http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Interwiki>. For easy configuration, use <http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki>
[09:11:14] <tbert>	Annemarie: I understand it's javascript, but my understanding is that it's driven by a template file
[09:11:17] <mgrant_>	nice, ok, reading, thanks...
[09:11:37] <tbert>	a file I neither appear to have, nor to know where to get
[09:11:41] <Annemarie>	tbert: You need to add the JS. Then you can use a template or call the code directly.
[09:11:44] <Annemarie>	Templates are pages.
[09:11:49] <Annemarie>	JS is stored in pages too.
[09:11:58] <Annemarie>	The show / hide is available...
[09:12:40] <Annemarie>	Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js
[09:13:04] <Annemarie>	/** Collapsible tables
[09:13:07] <Annemarie>	And...
[09:13:19] <Annemarie>	/** Dynamic Navigation Bars
[09:13:42] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) LQT threads and archives need to be nice and searchable - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19339  +comment (10agarrett)
[09:15:22] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Need to tweak thread search results - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20002 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (agarrett)
[09:15:55] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) LiquidThreads search does not search the thread subject - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20003 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (agarrett)
[09:17:21] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) LiquidThreads search supports only Lucene - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20004 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (agarrett)
[09:19:28] <tbert>	Annemarie: 1) where does this .js need to go under my installation; 2) I'm talking about the Collapsible list template, as detailed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Collapsible_list
[09:21:11] <Annemarie>	tbert: The JS goes on the equivalent page on your wiki.
[09:21:26] <Annemarie>	whatever.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js
[09:21:45] <Annemarie>	If you view the source of that template, you see <div class="NavFrame collapsed"
[09:21:51] <Annemarie>	That's the NavFrame JS being used there.
[09:22:08] <Annemarie>	!navframe
[09:22:08] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:NavFrame
[09:23:10] <Confucious>	Got a general question about extension CodeReview, anyone on that is familiar with it? (Actually is something a bit more general really though)
[09:24:12] <Annemarie>	!ask | Confucious 
[09:24:12] --mwbot--	Confucious: Don't say "I have a question", or ask "Is anyone around?" or "Can anyone help?". Just ask the question, and someone will help you if they can. See also: !gethelp
[09:24:34] <Confucious>	kk
[09:24:35] <Confucious>	hehe
[09:25:07] <tbert>	Annemarie: done, but I'm still not able to use {{Collapsible list}} templates on my pages
[09:25:24] <tbert>	using that markup results in the dreaded red hyperlink
[09:25:48] <Annemarie>	Right.
[09:25:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enhanced Toolbar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20001  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[09:25:56] <Annemarie>	You need to get the template.
[09:25:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enhanced Toolbar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20001   +shell (10roan.kattouw)
[09:26:00] <Annemarie>	You just added the backend JS.
[09:26:20] <Annemarie>	To get the template, either copy / paste or use Special:Export / Special:Import or whatever.
[09:26:28] <Annemarie>	You'll prolly need to install ParserFunctions too.
[09:27:19] <tbert>	and that was my initial question: where does said template reside? both the mediawiki site and teh googlez are less than helpful
[09:28:00] <Confucious>	With CodeReview extension from trunk SVN, I keep getting "Server certificate verification failed" stating that they are untrusted, on the svnImport. Is there anyway to force this cert through?
[09:28:40] <Confucious>	(commandline running of svnImport is not possible on the host, so I run it through a cronjob btw)
[09:29:25] <Annemarie>	!templates
[09:29:25] --mwbot--	For more information about templates, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates>. The most common issues with templates copied from Wikipedia can be fixed by installing ParserFunctions <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions> and enabling HTML Tidy <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy>
[09:29:34] <Annemarie>	tbert: Templates are just pages on your wiki.
[09:30:28] <tbert>	oh, laws; just cut and paste that into the equivalent page as well?
[09:30:56] <mgrant_>	Ok, I added $wgEnableScaryTranscluding = true; to my settings and added a record to the interwiki table and added [[ballotpedia:States]] to my page, but all I get is a link on the page (which works if I click on it), but it doesn't transclude the page.
[09:31:23] <Annemarie>	tbert: Pretty much. Though you will need to install ParserFunctions.
[09:31:30] <Annemarie>	If you haven't already.
[09:39:30] <CIA-69>	03dale * r54007 10/trunk/extensions/WikiAtHome/ (ApiWikiAtHome.php WahJobManager.php WikiAtHome.js): * improved flow and job interface
[09:45:16] <tbert>	wunderbar: Template loop detected: Template:Collapsible list
[09:45:52] <mgrant_>	One page says I need to put something like {{ballotpedia:States}} in my source to transclude that page but that doesn't work, it just puts {{ballotpedia:States}} right on the page.  Do I need some other extension to be able to do that?
[09:50:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) AbuseLog show private data (timestamp emailconfirm) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20005 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[09:55:49] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54008 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/SpecialOptIn.php: Fix up r53990: forgotten jQuery reference
[09:57:20] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54009 10/trunk/extensions/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
[09:57:20] <CIA-69>	* Tweak desc message name for consistency with other messages of this extension
[09:57:20] <CIA-69>	* Add exntesion to translatewiki
[10:01:21] <mgrant_>	I'm stuck.  The {{ }} syntax is a template, I see that, but my mediawiki isn't parsing that, is there some extension I need to install?
[10:01:39] <RoanKattouw>	mgrant_: What exactly are you trying to do?
[10:01:56] <mgrant_>	I'm trying to transclude a page from the ballotpedia site in my own site.
[10:02:00] <RoanKattouw>	If it's {{#something: }} you may need the ParserFunctions extension
[10:02:17] <mgrant_>	I have ParserFunctions installed
[10:02:19] <RoanKattouw>	!parserfunctions | mgrant_ 
[10:02:19] --mwbot--	mgrant_: "Parser functions" are a way to extend the wiki syntax. ParserFunctions is an extension that provides the basic set of parser functions (you have to install it separately!).  For help using parser functions, please see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Parser_functions>. For details about the extension, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions>.
[10:02:52] <mgrant_>	it's an interwiki link I'm trying to transclude
[10:04:47] <RoanKattouw>	That only works if you enable scary transclusion
[10:05:26] <RoanKattouw>	$wgEnableScaryTranscluding = true;
[10:05:54] <RoanKattouw>	But that feature is experimental and might not work correctly
[10:10:39] <mgrant_>	RoanKattouw: yeah, can't seem to get it to work at all!  It is as if I'm missing some extension.
[10:14:32] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) links on Special:DeletedContributions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20006 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[10:16:19] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54010 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/check-blacklist.php: Blacklist variable check for 'prefs-memberingroups-type'
[10:26:20] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) line breaks on Special:Allmessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20007 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[10:32:57] <najevi>	the stats report may have originally intended to serve some purpose but since it's report doesn't (didn't) state the purpose then I treat it like I treat spam
[10:34:08] <werdna>	najevi: ?
[10:34:19] <najevi>	sorry wrong channe;
[10:34:23] <najevi>	*channel
[10:35:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) AbuseLog show private data (timestamp emailconfirm) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20005  (10agarrett)
[10:38:16] <tbert>	I've figured out where I was confused; the documentation of how to use the syntax was not, in fact, the definition of the template itself
[10:38:45] <tbert>	however, I'm lost as to how to get *that* and place it into Template:Collapsible_list
[10:45:57] <tbert>	okay, figured that out...the instructions could've been a little more explicit ;)
[10:46:12] <tbert>	thanks to Annemarie for the help
[10:47:49] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54011 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWord/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/ (4 files): error reporting
[10:48:12] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54012 10/trunk/WikiWord/ (2 files in 2 dirs): death_date/birth_date templates
[10:55:00] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54013 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWord/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/CliApp.java: error reporting
[11:08:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) line breaks on Special:Allmessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20007  +comment (10raimond.spekking)
[11:22:35] <spinkk>	If I want to update from 1.6.12 to 1.15.1 should I go straight from 1.6.12 to 1.15.1  or should I go through some intermediate version upgrades ?
[11:24:42] <Nikerabbit>	mdale: you there?
[11:24:57] <Nikerabbit>	mdale: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support#WikiAtHome_extension
[11:35:37] <Platonides>	spinkk, go straight
[11:35:50] <spinkk>	Platonides, thnx :)
[11:35:59] <Platonides>	nonetheless, make backups before changing anything :)
[11:38:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) links on Special:DeletedContributions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20006  (10danny.leinad)
[11:38:27] <spinkk>	Platonides, done that :)
[11:43:15] <Platonides>	it's a basic step, but not everybody follow it
[12:17:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Glossary: Escaping forward slashes for PCRE functions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20008 critical; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (hickseydr)
[12:19:29] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Glossary: Incompatibility with CrossReference - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20009 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (hickseydr)
[12:21:48] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Glossary: Multiple HTML tags in output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20010 critical; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (hickseydr)
[12:23:35] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Glossary: Tooltips onmouseout is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20011 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (hickseydr)
[12:25:25] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Page shown as draft after being sighted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18419  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[13:01:33] <Eric_P>	hello
[13:01:56] <Eric_P>	got trouble with my mediawiki intallation after upgrading
[13:02:04] <RoanKattouw>	What kind of trouble/
[13:02:05] <Eric_P>	the trouble is in uploading images
[13:02:30] <Eric_P>	i had that problem some time back and remember that it had to do something with some 
[13:02:43] <Eric_P>	tmp directory
[13:02:53] <RoanKattouw>	What's the error message you get?
[13:04:07] <Eric_P>	the error message is: 
[13:04:11] <Eric_P>	one moment
[13:04:46] <Eric_P>	Interner Fehler
[13:04:46] <Eric_P>	Aus HPGR
[13:04:46] <Eric_P>	Wechseln zu: Navigation, Suche
[13:04:47] <Eric_P>	heraus zoomen 5%|10%|25%verstecken25%|10%|5% hinein zoomen
[13:04:47] <Eric_P>	Ereignisse mischenAlle loeschenAlle zeigen
[13:04:47] <Eric_P>	WikiTimeLine Hilfe
[13:04:49] <Eric_P>	verstecken
[13:04:51] <Eric_P>	WikiTimeLine zeigen
[13:05:25] <Eric_P>	sorry
[13:06:40] <Eric_P>	---- error is: "Der Webserver hat keine Schreibrechte f�r das Upload-Verzeichnis (public)" which in english must be something like "the webserver has no rights for upload directory (public)
[13:07:52] <RoanKattouw>	Eric_P: chmod your upload directory and its subdirectories to 777
[13:08:31] <Eric_P>	already did that
[13:10:56] <Eric_P>	hmm problem solved
[13:11:27] <Eric_P>	the contents of the files directory were 777 not the directory itself
[13:11:30] <Eric_P>	by
[13:11:37] <Eric_P>	thanks
[13:12:27] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r54014 10/trunk/extensions/Maps/Maps.php: Removed 'ol' as synonym for 'openlayers' - already used by SMW
[13:14:21] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Escaped HTML-entities do not round-trip when using forms - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19062  (10markus)
[13:14:22] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54015 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialDeletedContributions.php: Tweak 'restore' link in deletedcontribs to say 'view' (bug 20006)
[13:14:25] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) links on Special:DeletedContributions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20006  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[13:17:00] <Subfader>	is there some easy way for template usage to check if a page is in a certain category?
[13:37:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) line breaks on Special:Allmessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20007  (10umherirrender_de.wp)
[13:38:26] <Duesentrieb>	Subfader: don't think so. namespace, yes. but not category.
[13:38:48] <carl-m>	Subfader: not at the moment
[13:38:59] <Subfader>	I know there are ways via api but this could nice as core feature
[13:39:04] <carl-m>	hopefully that will be addressed by the new "programming language for templates" that is being brainstormed
[13:39:16] <Subfader>	oh.
[13:39:30] <carl-m>	we should make a list of feature requests for that, so that the people who might implement it have an idea of what would be useful
[13:39:59] <Subfader>	that would be, err, good before starting yeah
[13:40:15] <carl-m>	well, they have some goals already, and they may not have these usage cases in mind
[13:40:29] <Subfader>	kk
[13:42:04] <Subfader>	most of the DPL (third party) features would be useful
[13:42:42] <werdna>	We're not looking to expand the feature set extensively
[13:42:49] <werdna>	we're looking to make the existing feature set actually usable
[13:43:02] <werdna>	the whole *problem* is too many features
[13:43:21] <Subfader>	that's DPL's problem too
[13:43:28] <carl-m>	I would say that the reason the bad templates are so bad is there are not the right features
[13:43:42] <carl-m>	for example, suppose there is a list of pages: Foo1, Foo2, Foo3, Foo4, etc.
[13:43:46] <werdna>	no, it's because there are too many features and the syntax is horrible.
[13:43:59] <carl-m>	finding the last page in such a sequence currently requires awful nested if/then blocks
[13:44:14] <werdna>	Wikitext should be entirely a markup language -- if you want features you should implement them in the software itself
[13:44:24] <carl-m>	that's what is under discussion? 
[13:44:32] <Subfader>	i try to avoid DPL (3rd) as much as I can but core features are very limited.
[13:44:47] <carl-m>	at the very least, the inclusion of proper looping constructs will solve a lot of problems
[13:44:56] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Glossary: Don't parse empty content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20012 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: General/Unknown; (hickseydr)
[13:45:54] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) E_STRICT in Block.php - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14290  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[13:46:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Warning: putenv(): Safe Mode warning: Cannot set environment variable 'TZ' - it's not in the allowed list Parser.php on line 2851 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2658  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[13:46:16] <carl-m>	here is another use case. I have a bot task that basically does nothing but get the contents of a category, wrap each page title into a template, and then make a list of these templates. That is another situation where a proper template scripting language would work
[13:46:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Stop using putenv() for TZ var, use date_default_timezone_set() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2658  summary (10innocentkiller)
[13:47:09] <werdna>	13:44 < carl-m> at the very least, the inclusion of proper looping constructs will solve a lot of problems
[13:47:32] <werdna>	The problem is that people think they need loops and implement them themselves in some godawful fashion
[13:47:38] <werdna>	13:46 < carl-m> here is another use case. I have a bot task that basically does nothing but get the contents of a category, wrap each page title into a template, and then make a list of these  templates. That is another situation where a proper template scripting language would work
[13:47:54] <werdna>	That's not a use case, you haven't explained how it's useful to improving Wikipedia's quality
[13:48:08] <werdna>	only how it helps you achieve some predetermined intermediate step that you have not justified
[13:49:13] <carl-m>	it is used to generate the pages for the "peer review", "good article", and some of the pages for the "featured article" process on enwiki
[13:49:51] <carl-m>	and it is a bot task that really shouldn't require a bot task, but I have no desire to write an extension to do it, and the template scripting language is too weak
[13:50:44] <wonder>	hi guys
[13:50:58] <carl-m>	if the template scripting language were able to make API calls, that would be very helpful indeed
[13:51:26] <wonder>	i'm having some issue understanding the manual
[13:51:27] <wonder>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSMTP
[13:51:35] <wonder>	"Set to false (the default value) "
[13:51:42] <wonder>	which is that default value?
[13:52:07] <^demon>	wonder: The default value (which you should use if you don't need SMTP) is false.
[13:52:11] <werdna>	carl-m: again, assume one solution.
[13:52:26] <wonder>	but i want to use it and disable php mail
[13:52:31] <werdna>	The idea of implementing process through static pages is a terrible idea.
[13:52:42] <wonder>	so, how to i disable php mail?
[13:52:47] <^demon>	wonder: Then set it to an array with the config variables set like in the example.
[13:53:19] <wonder>	it will automatically set on external smtp if i set that array?
[13:53:35] <^demon>	Yes.
[13:53:39] <carl-m>	werdna: I agree these should be dynamic pages. But ICBF to write an extension to do it, and the template language is too weak. So if the plans are to make the template language stronger, that will allow me to make the page properly dynamic
[13:53:41] <wonder>	ok
[13:54:11] <wonder>	now i don't see in that array if the auth need ssl or tls
[13:54:14] <wonder>	is not supported?
[13:54:26] *^demon 	shrugs
[13:54:34] <^demon>	I dunno, I doubt it.
[13:55:28] <carl-m>	wonder: a google search suggests pear mail does support ssl 
[13:56:11] <^demon>	Yeah, it does.
[13:56:13] <^demon>	Just found that.
[13:56:36] <^demon>	wonder: If you prefix host with ssl:// it should work. I would assume same for TLS.
[13:56:51] <wonder>	ok
[14:03:54] *thedj 	just saw the ideas for the next UI usuability iteration....
[14:04:19] <^demon>	Link?
[14:04:38] <thedj>	http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/07/29/the-abcs-of-usability/
[14:04:51] <thedj>	specifically: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Babaco_Designs
[14:05:40] <thedj>	i'm not as much a fan yet...
[14:05:48] <svip>	Ugh.
[14:05:55] <svip>	So much American English.
[14:06:58] <svip>	What the!
[14:07:02] <svip>	MediaWiki... pretty?
[14:07:06] <svip>	That won't do!
[14:07:08] <^demon>	thedj: Not liking it either. The right column irks me.
[14:07:34] <RoanKattouw>	svip: Not seeing any AmE in that blog post offhand
[14:07:48] <svip>	RoanKattouw: Oh, I looked at the other link.
[14:08:05] <svip>	But I was more concerned about the whole reskinning of MediaWiki.
[14:08:06] <thedj>	i'm not so sure about the orange.
[14:08:10] <svip>	I mean, I thought it was about content.
[14:08:13] <svip>	Not pretty colours.
[14:08:15] <thedj>	left side looking good to me though
[14:08:39] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54016 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (bug 19864) Removed overzealous hiding of deleted (but not suppressed) rows from log/contribs list from sysops
[14:08:40] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Invisible revision in "Deleted user contributions" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19864  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[14:08:42] <thedj>	svip: you should try Vector skin. it's not bad at all.
[14:09:06] <svip>	But don't I need an account or some such?
[14:09:14] <svip>	Or does useskin=vector work?
[14:09:25] <thedj>	either
[14:09:33] <svip>	Uhm.
[14:09:46] <svip>	I am confused.  Which page is it available on?
[14:09:47] <thedj>	but there is a bit too much roundness and color in this next iteration if you ask me.
[14:09:50] <svip>	Wiki*
[14:10:12] <thedj>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Augusta,_Lady_Gregory&useskin=vector
[14:10:15] <thedj>	for instance
[14:10:17] <^demon>	Right column for edit mode could be useful. I'm not sure I see the utility in a right column while reading. Feels like it would squish the content.
[14:11:16] <svip>	Hm.
[14:11:18] <svip>	I dunno.
[14:11:24] <svip>	The search bar seems to be oddly placed.
[14:11:36] <svip>	That is not at all where I would look for the search box.
[14:12:02] <svip>	Or, if anything, you need to make the search bar stand more out.
[14:12:17] <svip>	Of course not, attention stealing, but obvious when you are looking for it.
[14:12:20] <wonder>	^demon, thanks for helping
[14:12:27] <^demon>	wonder: no problem
[14:12:30] <wonder>	is working with ssl://smtp
[14:12:33] <^demon>	svip: We've been told that "that's where a search bar should be"
[14:12:39] <flyingparchment>	the only thing i don't like about vector is the grey background
[14:12:40] <svip>	By who?
[14:12:45] <svip>	Some guy?
[14:12:46] <flyingparchment>	it's a particularly boring shade of grey
[14:13:01] <RoanKattouw>	svip: By the results of a usability study
[14:13:12] <Nikerabbit>	hi werdna
[14:13:17] <RoanKattouw>	In other words, by first-time users who couldn't find the search bar
[14:13:18] <svip>	RoanKattouw: Damn surveys, what do they know?  Well, I guess they are right though.
[14:13:23] <werdna>	hi
[14:13:50] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: That's because it was halfway down on the left ;-)
[14:13:57] <thedj>	svip: those results are probably due to all browsers these days having search fields top right in the toolbar.
[14:13:59] <svip>	RoanKattouw: http://theinfosphere.org/ << I thought we hit neat on this modification of the Monobook skin.  Though, the Vector skin is intruiging me.
[14:14:16] <thedj>	which makes noobs look there if they want to "search" instead of think.. :D
[14:14:16] <svip>	thedj: That makes sense.
[14:14:44] <werdna>	svip: gosh, that skin is horrible
[14:14:46] <werdna>	way too obnoxious
[14:14:52] <svip>	werdna: Thank you.
[14:14:58] <RoanKattouw>	Keep in mind that all this usability stuff is supposed to make stuff easier for noobs, that's pretty much the primary goal
[14:15:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Glossary: Don't parse empty content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20012  +comment (10Platonides)
[14:15:35] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: As long as we don't sell out doing so.
[14:15:36] <svip>	RoanKattouw: Yes, I realise a low learning curve is good.  But you can also end up taking away the good parts for "hardcore" users.
[14:15:39] <thedj>	yes, for instance, the new editor, is probably the first thing i'll turn off, because i don't need all that stuff, but i can see that noobs might need it.
[14:15:55] <werdna>	^demon: "sell out"?
[14:15:59] <thedj>	svip: hardcore users are hardcore. they adapt.
[14:16:12] <thedj>	or switch back to an older skin like monobook :D
[14:16:14] <RoanKattouw>	thedj: That reaction is exactly why we made it disableable ;)
[14:16:23] <svip>	thedj: Yeah, but they can still get annoyed if things get in the way for usability sake.
[14:16:39] <werdna>	svip: "get in the way for usability's sake" is an oxymoron
[14:16:41] <svip>	thedj: It's the same reason I prefer command line over GUI at times, because command line is simply faster.
[14:16:46] <^demon>	werdna: svip said it well, "Don't ruin what's good for power users by trying to be overly friendly"
[14:16:52] <thedj>	svip: we have gadget galore on en.wp tools will present themselves.
[14:17:44] <RoanKattouw>	^demon, svip: Is there anything in the Babaco designs or in the Acai release (Vector+toolbar currently live) that you experience as getting in the way of power users?
[14:18:02] <^demon>	Not thus far, no. Acai has been very good so far.
[14:18:05] <thedj>	i'm also not sure if i like this: http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Babaco_Designs#Messages
[14:18:27] <werdna>	thedj: what about it?
[14:18:45] <thedj>	because the messages are in integral part of our Quality control mechanism. They may look scary to some folks, but that is kinda the point. To make folks aware that the article is not full quality.
[14:18:53] <thedj>	we shouldn't be hiding stuff like that.
[14:19:03] <^demon>	werdna: Isn't that something a local wiki manages with templates? If enwiki makes them loud and annoying, then enwiki needs to fix it.
[14:19:06] <thedj>	and reopen the "reliability" criticism hole again.
[14:19:13] <svip>	thedj: I dunno, I actually agree with that part.  These messages are useful - for editors - but in general, even if they warn against the content, are very distracting - and confusing - for readers.
[14:19:30] <RoanKattouw>	thedj: But on talk pages, it's worse. Such boxes take up an entire screenful when viewing the average talk page on a smallish resolution
[14:19:39] <werdna>	At the moment, they suck for our readers
[14:19:47] <werdna>	and yes, RoanKattouw is right
[14:19:51] <werdna>	they're especially bad on talk pages.
[14:19:53] <thedj>	svip: then you don't understand. They ARE for readers. not for editors (editors are supposed to already understand the deficiencies of most articles).
[14:20:05] <svip>	thedj: Readers don't care.
[14:20:07] <thedj>	true, talk pages are a mess.
[14:20:10] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: My point remains: isn't that something for a local wiki to fix?
[14:20:14] <thedj>	svip: but they SHOULD.
[14:20:18] <werdna>	Moving them to discussion pages has just given people an excuse.
[14:20:20] <^demon>	Enwiki doesn't have to make templates loud and annoying, but they do.
[14:20:21] <thedj>	it's not our problem if they don't
[14:20:24] <RoanKattouw>	Some of the boxes are for readers, yes, but some are for editors as well
[14:20:25] <svip>	thedj: Do you care if an article is an orphan?  No...
[14:20:43] <thedj>	that's one of the least used messages
[14:20:50] <werdna>	thedj: They're distracting and annoying to readers.
[14:20:54] <RoanKattouw>	Readers do care about the "relating to a current event" box, but don't care about the "proposed for merge with Y" box
[14:21:00] <thedj>	that's what they are there for.
[14:21:11] <svip>	I think enwiki and whatnot should make a varying degree of what messages are useful for editors and which are useful for readers.
[14:21:12] <thedj>	"this article has problems. As a reader, be aware of that"
[14:21:21] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: In Babaco, I'm not a fan of the rounded gradient buttons (just a personal preference). I've _really_ come to like the tabs in Vector as-is. Also, I'm not seeing what a right column in read mode would really accomplish. It seems (to me) like it would just clutter things and squish the content. In editing mode I can see it as valuable, though.
[14:21:34] <svip>	thedj: I'd prefer a short top warning with "This article sucks.  Click here to see why."
[14:21:37] <Nikerabbit>	meh
[14:21:42] <werdna>	thedj: they can be a bit less annoying and distracting while still conveying the information
[14:21:46] <Nikerabbit>	people are already complaining when they are not live yet?
[14:21:50] <werdna>	svip's idea is what I have in mind.
[14:21:57] <thedj>	werdna: hmm, i don't know.
[14:21:59] <werdna>	(but I'm not a usability person)
[14:22:16] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: I agree with both. I don't know what the deal is with either, I'll ask Parul when she gets on line
[14:22:24] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: did you manage to use custom interface for edit page for lqt?
[14:22:43] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: what do you mean 'custom interface'?
[14:22:47] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: I would really like clarification on that....I'm more skeptical of that in Babaco than anything else.
[14:23:06] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: well, provide page editing without action=edit and all the clutter?
[14:23:26] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: Stick around for a few hours in #wikipedia_usability , Parul should be online around 10 AM PT to answer those questions
[14:23:35] <CIA-69>	03purodha * r54017 10/trunk/extensions/WikiAtHome/WikiAtHome.i18n.php: Use consisten case "Wiki@Home" through all messages.
[14:23:54] <carl-m>	a larger problem with moving to a 3-column layout is that there are many pages that will not fit into 655px
[14:24:19] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: Well, it doesn't use action=edit
[14:24:31] <werdna>	it uses an editpage object, puts it inline
[14:24:33] <werdna>	AJAX!
[14:24:48] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: can I see that live somewhere?
[14:25:02] <werdna>	http://wiki.werdn.us/test/view/Talk:Main_Page
[14:25:06] <Nikerabbit>	'cause I'm supposed to do similar thing
[14:25:53] <svip>	werdna: That's the best logo for a wiki.
[14:25:56] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: that looks cool
[14:26:16] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: I guess it is not possible to suppress some elements
[14:26:21] <svip>	Beats our Infosphere logo with its crazy Futurama light background.
[14:26:43] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: can you point me to the code?
[14:26:53] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: code for what?
[14:27:28] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: where it puts that editpage thingie inline
[14:27:36] <werdna>	it's partly JS
[14:27:55] <werdna>	but look at LqtView::showEditingFormInGeneral() in /trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/classes/View.php
[14:28:03] <werdna>	beware: code is spaghetti because it's developed over 5 years
[14:28:59] *werdna 	eyes Aaron_notebook 
[14:29:22] <Aaron_notebook>	actually they are both notebooks
[14:29:30] <Aaron_notebook>	the other one is just really big :)
[14:29:41] <werdna>	O RLY
[14:29:48] <Aaron_notebook>	18.4" screen
[14:30:04] <Aaron_notebook>	"desktop replacement"
[14:30:45] <werdna>	why would you do that?
[14:31:01] <werdna>	how much was it?
[14:31:34] <saper>	can you have your head straight ahead to match the display top edge?
[14:31:35] <Aaron_notebook>	a lot
[14:31:48] <werdna>	why would you not just buy a normal computer?
[14:31:55] <flyingparchment>	werdna: you can't carry a normal computer around
[14:32:02] <Aaron_notebook>	my dorm is tiny
[14:32:10] <Aaron_notebook>	and I have to move around every few months
[14:32:16] <werdna>	I imagine you can't carry an 18.4" laptop around too easily either
[14:32:29] <Aaron_notebook>	actually, it is very easy
[14:32:41] <Aaron_notebook>	packs like other stuff into luggage
[14:32:48] <^demon>	Aaron_notebook: I do the same thing, desktop replacements are great.
[14:32:56] <Aaron_notebook>	were as a desktop is an automatic 2 more trips
[14:33:03] <werdna>	$2500
[14:33:05] <Aaron_notebook>	(unless I use a giant card)
[14:33:17] <saper>	the only problem with laptops is your ergonomics, i.e. you can't sit really straight (unless external display is used)
[14:33:30] <werdna>	You could get a Mac Mini and an external display
[14:33:40] <werdna>	for much cheaper than that.
[14:33:41] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54018 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordProperties/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/lifescience/ConceptTypes.properties: added missing concept type definition: 1009=FOOD
[14:33:48] <Aaron_notebook>	with two hard disk (room for a third) and a quad core?
[14:34:13] <Aaron_notebook>	I could get an SSD added in there if I wanted
[14:34:55] <Aaron_notebook>	*giant cart, not card :)
[14:37:01] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: is api still consideres "may change at anytime" ?
[14:37:18] <RoanKattouw>	Why do you ask?
[14:37:20] <Aaron_notebook>	saper: screen works out fine for me
[14:37:22] <werdna>	Well, if you want horsepower you could get a 24" 3.06 GHz dual-core iMac for $2199 -- if Macs aren't your thing then Sony does a high-power system with a similar form factor for about the same price.
[14:37:44] <^demon>	werdna: I have that iMac :)
[14:38:01] <werdna>	Dell has one for $1700 24", Quad Core, 4 GB of RAM
[14:38:10] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: Breaking changes can happen, but are kept to a minimum and always announced on the mediawiki-api and mediawiki-api-announce lists
[14:38:30] <werdna>	I carried a 20" iMac including keyboard with one hand, from the Wikimedia office to the Wikia office
[14:38:46] <werdna>	so it's easy to move.
[14:39:15] <RoanKattouw>	werdna: Whoa, that's like... a whole BLOCK
[14:39:28] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: maybe you should say that instead then? :)
[14:39:29] <Aaron_notebook>	my 17" notebook is better than that imac :)
[14:39:38] <Aaron_notebook>	graphics wise
[14:39:40] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: Where does it say the other thing then?
[14:39:47] <werdna>	Aaron_notebook: graphics wise :p
[14:39:50] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: api.php main page
[14:39:58] <Aaron_notebook>	no point in paying hell $$$ for 3.06 ghz
[14:40:13] <Aaron_notebook>	get a sweet gpu instead
[14:40:19] <werdna>	Aaron_notebook: then go for the Dell, you know there's a price premium on Mac.
[14:40:29] <Aaron_notebook>	*hella
[14:40:38] <werdna>	nobody needs high-power graphics unless you game.
[14:40:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) line breaks on Special:Allmessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20007  (10umherirrender_de.wp)
[14:40:56] <svip>	When it comes to notebooks, I prefer analogue.
[14:41:03] <carl-m>	RoanKattouw: if you're looking for a list of usability problems in vector, it has the same problem as the other skins with section links
[14:41:09] *^demon 	games on his iMac.
[14:41:27] <^demon>	All I play is the Sims 3 and EVE Online, both of which run beautifully at max settings.
[14:41:27] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: Mean section edit links? That's on the agenda
[14:41:31] <werdna>	for that matter, no point in having a high-power CPU unless you game -- anything else you can offload to s3
[14:41:36] <werdna>	s/s3/ec2/
[14:41:44] <svip>	Blargh.  What's with all the mac users.
[14:41:51] <carl-m>	I mean that when you click a link to go to a section, you may not end up with that section headline on your screen
[14:41:54] <svip>	Does MediaWiki run on Steve Jobs?
[14:42:06] <werdna>	svip: most of the development team does.
[14:42:10] *Aaron_notebook 	doesn't have a mac
[14:42:25] <werdna>	everybody in the office, at any rate.
[14:42:26] <^demon>	werdna: We all run on Steve Jobs?
[14:42:35] <werdna>	^demon: yep, we make him lie on the highway
[14:42:39] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: Oh in the experimental TOC thingy? Known issue; strangely it works in IE and breaks in Firefox
[14:42:39] <Aaron_notebook>	I'm tempted to play Call of Duty now
[14:42:57] <werdna>	Aaron_notebook: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/dell_bumps_its_xps_one_imac_clone_24_priced_1700
[14:42:58] <RoanKattouw>	Or in the regular TOC?
[14:42:58] <^demon>	werdna: I suppose you could extract some carbon-based fuels from him.
[14:43:02] <svip>	:s I am tempted to play Veil of Darkness now.
[14:43:08] <werdna>	^d	:)
[14:43:20] <carl-m>	no, when you are following a link from some other page (most importantly, the watchlist). I think the cause is that images render after the browser has already set the scroll position for the header
[14:43:30] <meth>	i have a simple template called {{box|text to display}} that accepts the first argument and puts it into a small div with borders... but a few of the multiline examples i have are showing the default text instead of the content i assigned... any idea ?
[14:43:46] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: Nothing we can do about that, browsers' fault
[14:44:00] *Aaron_notebook 	awaits his free M$ windows 7 dvd in october or so
[14:44:02] <svip>	meth: Got a link?
[14:44:11] <RoanKattouw>	WFM in Firefox with patience: don't scroll till all the images have loaded
[14:44:11] <meth>	no it's internal only 
[14:44:12] <carl-m>	we could work around it in javascript. it is one of the more annoying usability problems for me on the site
[14:44:22] <svip>	meth: Got a paste then?
[14:44:27] <meth>	of ?
[14:44:33] <svip>	The examples.
[14:44:43] <svip>	Well - one of them.
[14:45:13] <meth>	give me a minute
[14:45:24] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) wrap extension version on Special:Version into a span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20013 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[14:45:47] <RoanKattouw>	carl-m: You should file a bug against Mozilla for that though
[14:46:17] <carl-m>	I'm not arguing it's a mediawiki bug. I'm just saying it's a usability nightmare
[14:46:35] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54019 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/wikis/WikiConfiguration_enwiki.java: patterns: Birth[-_]date
[14:46:51] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54020 10/trunk/WikiWord/ (4 files in 4 dirs): make *really* sure ConceptType can't be null
[14:48:13] <Aaron_notebook>	going from Crysis to CoD5 is nice, 20-40 fps -> 88+ fps
[14:48:24] <meth>	svip seems to be an external link that is breaking it 
[14:48:34] <Aaron_notebook>	still pre-ordered crysis 2 :)
[14:48:44] <svip>	meth: It contains an equal sign?
[14:49:01] <meth>	yes 
[14:49:10] <meth>	how do i encode it ?
[14:49:10] <svip>	meth: Then do this instead: {{box|1=stuff}}
[14:49:43] <meth>	it's multiline
[14:49:54] <svip>	Do it anyway.
[14:50:09] <RoanKattouw>	Just add 1= after the |
[14:50:35] <svip>	meth: The "stuff" in my example is purely the multiline text.
[14:50:52] <meth>	won't the subsequent = break something still ?
[14:50:56] <svip>	No.
[14:51:15] <svip>	The first equal sign is the split.
[14:51:25] <svip>	On its left is the variable on its right is its content.
[14:51:41] <svip>	{{box|1=2=3}} will leave you with 2=3
[14:52:01] <Aaron_notebook>	werdna: my next notebook will definitely has SLI
[14:52:11] <Aaron_notebook>	*have, grrr
[14:52:16] <werdna>	SLI?
[14:52:21] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) wrap rights on Special:ListGroupRights into a span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20014 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (umherirrender_de.wp)
[14:52:22] <Aaron_notebook>	two GPUs
[14:52:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localized magic words don't ignore case if containing nonASCII characters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8143  (10mgrabovsky)
[14:53:06] <Aaron_notebook>	werdna: http://www.sagernotebook.com/product_customed.php?pid=188463
[14:53:16] <flyingparchment>	i don't think anyone actually does SLI anymore - i wish they wouldn't describe it that way
[14:53:28] <Aaron_notebook>	but no more than 17"
[14:53:42] <Aaron_notebook>	alienware m17x is ugly and expensive
[14:53:57] <meth>	is it best practice then to usually use a name for variables ?
[14:54:11] <Aaron_notebook>	flyingparchment: it is a tiny niche
[14:54:34] <flyingparchment>	Aaron_notebook: no, what i mean is Scan Line Interleave is a specific implementation of "two graphics cards" that no one uses anymore
[14:54:41] <flyingparchment>	nvidia just stole the term and reused it for something else
[14:54:53] <Aaron_notebook>	from vodoo?
[14:54:56] <flyingparchment>	yes
[14:55:19] <Aaron_notebook>	I get alternative frame rendering, not sure how the "split the screen up" thing works
[14:55:20] <svip>	Is 1.16alpha+ stable enough for usage?
[14:55:31] <Subfader>	yes
[14:55:41] <flyingparchment>	Aaron_notebook: in the original SLI, one card rendered the odd lines, the other rendered the even lines
[14:55:49] <flyingparchment>	and the two were recombined to produce the image
[14:56:08] <Subfader>	i use 1.16alpha since 1.15 is out, dunno the current trunk version though
[14:56:25] <flyingparchment>	it works because graphics cards use scanline rendering, not ray tracing
[14:56:31] <flyingparchment>	(ray tracing is much harder to parallelise)
[15:01:35] <meth>	thanks
[15:03:14] <Subfader>	How can I make $this->gallery->toHTML() only show 4 images instead of the default 200?
[15:03:44] <svip>	Subfader: Speaking of 1.16alpha+, why does it get some fail to open steam in the AutoLoader.php...?
[15:03:59] <svip>	o_o Oh, wait.
[15:04:00] <svip>	Sorry.
[15:04:06] <svip>	I just figured out why.
[15:10:45] <magicblaze007>	Does anyone know where I can find the XML schema of wikipedia? I believe it can be imported into mediawiki.
[15:11:01] <magicblaze007>	Is there a fast XML parser for such huge files that I could use in python for example?
[15:11:47] <RoanKattouw>	!dump | magicblaze007 
[15:11:47] --mwbot--	magicblaze007: For information on how to get dumps from Wikimedia Wikis, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps
[15:13:44] <magicblaze007>	I just saw it. I just want to know what demarcates html pages. still cant find it. Reading the Format section still.
[15:14:04] <magicblaze007>	is there a simple tool that can take the XML and convert it to html files on the disk?
[15:15:01] <magicblaze007>	Seems like <page> </page> tells one page of the html? in the XML? Am I right?
[15:15:12] <^demon>	magicblaze007: Not really. There's no standalone parser independent from MW. Your best bet is to import the wikitext to a MW install, then use dumpHTML
[15:15:14] <^demon>	!dumphtml
[15:15:14] --mwbot--	For creating a static HTML dump of your wiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:DumpHTML.php>
[15:15:51] <magicblaze007>	so I have to import it before I can dump it to html.
[15:16:14] <^demon>	Yes. And if you want the XSD for the dump format (although it's not very useful), you can find it at http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.3.xsd
[15:17:29] <magicblaze007>	I see a PageType in the export.xsd, but no element called "<page>"?
[15:17:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Set $aliases['en']['AbuseFilter'] = array( 'EditFilter', 'AbuseFilter' ) for enwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19618  (10AlexSm)
[15:19:27] <^demon>	magicblaze007: <element name="page" type="mw:PageType" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/> at line 40/41
[15:20:12] <magicblaze007>	Thanks demon. What is the siteinfo type for? It can appear inside mediawikitype as well?>
[15:21:29] <^demon>	<siteinfo> stuff relates to generic meta info about the export. It's outside of <page>, I know that much.
[15:21:39] <^demon>	I've only played with the XSD like once, so I'm no expert :)
[15:21:46] <Nikerabbit>	hi ^demon, it was ialex!
[15:22:02] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: What was ialex?
[15:22:07] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: not me!
[15:22:11] <^demon>	Oh, the dumpMessagesDb thing?
[15:22:14] <Nikerabbit>	yes
[15:22:30] *RoanKattouw 	tries for the Worst Abuse of the API award with http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=jsonfm&titles=Ĝ ĝ Ģ ģ Ğ ğ
[15:22:34] <^demon>	ialex: I suppose my question is to you then: what are you planning on doing with dumpMessagesDb
[15:22:48] <RoanKattouw>	(to figure out what the \unnnn sequences for those chars are)
[15:24:30] <ialex>	^demon: you mean makeMessagesDB?
[15:24:36] <^demon>	That.
[15:25:13] <ialex>	wanted to know if it has some utility
[15:25:23] <ialex>	but it seems it's not the case :)
[15:25:40] <^demon>	If it's useless and doesn't work...should it be deleted?
[15:25:58] <^demon>	(in my general push to remove crap from /maintenance that doesn't work and/or is unused)
[15:26:07] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: srsly :P
[15:26:30] <ialex>	^demon: I'd say go ahead
[15:27:23] <^demon>	ialex: I'll do it after work then, unless you get an itchy trigger finger before I get home :)
[15:27:51] <werdna>	"If hooters were to become a door-to-door service, would they change their name to knockers?"
[15:27:54] <werdna>	heh
[15:30:43] <apergos>	geez
[15:33:26] <svip>	werdna: So like, why doesn't $wgDefaultSkin actually set it to default for guest users?
[15:34:30] <svip>	It's the strangest thing.
[15:34:38] *werdna 	shrugs, check the code
[15:34:49] <svip>	Why does the server give two different results depending on which browser I use?
[15:35:01] <roberthl>	cache?
[15:35:04] <svip>	On one it uses the backup and on the other it uses the new bleeding edge version.
[15:35:17] <svip>	roberthl: Would be odd, since I created a new subdomain for the purpose that had not been visited before.
[15:37:12] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54021 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixing template replacement patterns
[15:37:27] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) strategywiki's IRC RC feed is in the wrong place - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20015 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: IRC; (mike.lifeguard)
[15:45:16] <svip>	roberthl: Ah!  It is cache!
[15:45:19] <svip>	Damn.
[15:45:56] <roberthl>	it's always cache
[15:46:02] <svip>	:[
[15:49:28] <RoanKattouw>	Holy crap
[15:49:43] <RoanKattouw>	gzipping EditToolbar.js brings it down from 153K to 7K
[15:51:08] <Subfader>	can i send a value to use as $1 in a wiki msg with wfMsgExt( 'foo'', array( 'parseinline' ) )? I need wfMsg( 'foo', $bar ) to be parsed.
[15:53:41] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54022 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.js: EditToolbar: Convert Latin and Greek special chars to \u1234 notation and order them alphabetically. Unable to come up with sane orderings for the other alphabets as I can't read them.
[15:55:19] <meth>	svip can i not put a table inside of a template ? all i see is a {
[15:55:54] <svip>	meth: If you want to put a table in as an argument to a template, you'll have to remember that {| and |} and such has to be the first thing on a line.
[15:56:01] <svip>	Alternatively, you can write the HTML code.
[15:56:18] <meth>	it is 
[15:56:35] <RoanKattouw>	svip, meth: Using | can cause problems, so replace | by {{!}} and create Template:! containing |
[15:57:01] <meth>	what ?
[15:57:07] <meth>	oh
[15:57:39] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54023 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.php: EditToolbar: Bump style version for r54022
[15:59:21] <CIA-69>	03ialex * r54024 10/trunk/phase3/tests/ (ArticleTest.php SearchEngineTest.php SearchMySQL4Test.php): 
[15:59:21] <CIA-69>	fixes in the tests directory:
[15:59:21] <CIA-69>	* create default object to avoid PHP notices in ArticleTest
[15:59:21] <CIA-69>	* remove broken constructor in SearchMySQL4Test
[15:59:21] <CIA-69>	* remove pass by ref to avoid PHP warnings in SearchEngineTest
[15:59:27] <Nikerabbit>	Subfader: the normal way? there is just extra parameter in the middle
[16:00:31] <RoanKattouw>	Isn't it wfMsgExt( $msgKey, $options, $param1, $param2, ... ) ?
[16:00:46] <werdna>	no, $msgKey, $options, array( $params )
[16:00:59] <Subfader>	array( 'parseinline' ) doesn't work for me anyway. I want to include DPL code in the wiki msg
[16:01:01] <Nikerabbit>	you're both correct
[16:01:38] <Nikerabbit>	I prefer the first way
[16:04:07] <^demon>	ialex: Cleaning up tests/ might cause you to walk in circles :)
[16:04:23] <Subfader>	this doesn't parse it for me: $r .= wfMsgExt( 'catImagesTop', $catfiles, array(  'parseinline' ) );
[16:04:34] <Subfader>	this doesn't pass $catfiles $r .= wfMsgExt( 'catImagesTop', array( $catfiles, 'parseinline' ) );
[16:05:04] *ialex 	copies from tests /t to /tests
[16:05:11] *ialex 	did the opposite last year :)
[16:05:40] <ialex>	we really should delete one of these two dirs :)
[16:06:01] <^demon>	Or both
[16:06:08] <RoanKattouw>	Subfader: wfMsgExt( 'catImagesTop', array( 'parseinline' ), $catfiles );
[16:06:10] <ialex>	no! :)
[16:06:21] *ialex 	likes t/maint
[16:06:55] <Subfader>	Roan: Indded. Thanks :)
[16:07:38] <^demon>	ialex: Yeah, me too.
[16:08:06] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) strategywiki's IRC RC feed is in the wrong place - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20015  +comment (10rhalsell)
[16:11:52] <meth>	how do i write an example of a tempalte (for the help page) without needing to enclose it in <nowiki/> ?
[16:13:37] <RoanKattouw>	meth: Use a template to enclose it in <nowiki> for you :P
[16:13:50] <meth>	but then i can't use <br>
[16:13:53] <RoanKattouw>	Like {{tpl|template|param|param}}
[16:14:24] <meth>	so wait based on my previous question your saying that i can't have templates embedded in templates ?
[16:14:27] <RoanKattouw>	Which would create something like [[Template:tpl|<nowiki>{{tpl|</nowiki>param|param}}]]
[16:16:12] <prefrontal>	some of my messages don't seem to be showing up. i get things like <editpage-tos-summary>
[16:16:18] <prefrontal>	i'm using the deploy branch
[16:18:59] <petaflot>	
[16:22:59] <Confucious>	brion : is there anyway, with the CodeReview extension, to get it to accept a server's certification when it says it is not trusted?
[16:24:42] <brion>	Confucious: are you having it download SVN updates via https?
[16:24:52] <brion>	w/ self-signed cert on the svn server?
[16:25:24] <Confucious>	yeah, it is doing it from sourceforge addresses
[16:25:33] <^demon|lunch\>	dammit
[16:25:36] <roberthl>	Surely what is "officially considered stable" is the latest release.
[16:25:48] <^demon|lunch>	roberthl: Yeah.
[16:26:06] <^demon|lunch>	Anyway, lunch time and all
[16:26:06] <Shinjiman>	hmmmm, is that necessary to split a "MW extension" component "Cite (Special page)" from "Cite"?
[16:26:12] <Confucious>	and yes, using an https:// addie for the Repo, with standard http for the other two
[16:26:13] <Shinjiman>	!bug 18081
[16:26:13] --mwbot--	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18081
[16:26:17] <^demon|lunch>	Shinjiman: Not IMHO
[16:27:17] <Confucious>	current repo addie giving the untrusted cert: https://pol-distro.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pol-distro/
[16:28:21] <skamster_>	hey peobles
[16:28:41] <brion>	Confucious: hmm, bad cert or just curl beeing crappy? what's the erry you're seeing?
[16:28:46] <skamster_>	i installed multilang, but it doesn't work. no errors, but also no text..
[16:28:54] <brion>	yeah the cert seems fine
[16:29:02] <skamster_>	i combine it with language-selector
[16:29:09] <skamster_>	could someone help me?
[16:29:37] <brion>	Confucious: using the SVN PECL extension or command-line svn?
[16:30:07] <brion>	ah i see
[16:30:17] <Confucious>	brion : no error per say, I just get this 5 times, from the SVNImport script, along with the r1 to HEAD msg, and saying pre-caching (which it never does of course)
[16:30:18] <brion>	Confucious: try manual 'svn co https://pol-distro.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pol-distro/' on the server terminal
[16:30:33] <Confucious>	svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/pol-distro'
[16:30:33] <Confucious>	svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/pol-distro': Server certificate verification failed: issuer is not trusted (https://pol-distro.svn.sourceforge.net)
[16:30:35] <brion>	and hit 'p' to save the cert info
[16:30:47] <brion>	see if that does it for ya
[16:31:11] <Confucious>	hrm, will bash in and try that. I run the script through a CronJob list on the host, hehe
[16:31:33] <brion>	yeah if that doesn't do it.....
[16:31:45] <brion>	there's a --trust-server-cert option i see
[16:32:06] <brion>	try adding that into the command lines in Subversion.php
[16:32:10] <brion>	next to the --non-interactive
[16:33:20] <Confucious>	yeah, in bash it gave me cert option. I accepted it perm, will wait till next Cron and see the results in my mail
[16:33:32] <brion>	good luck :D
[16:33:37] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Rename Cite to SpecialCite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18081  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[16:33:37] <Subfader>	i use the great resizegallery script from Commons (ammount of thumbs per row is adjusted to the clients window width). Would be great to define a gallery to output one row instead of a hard number of thumbs.
[16:33:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enhanced Toolbar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20001  +comment (10brion)
[16:34:03] <Confucious>	thx mate. Will give it till top of the hour and see :D
[16:36:30] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Source change - Portuguese Wikipedia logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20016 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (lijealso.wikimedia)
[16:36:52] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Rename Cite to SpecialCite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18081  +comment (10Gerard.meijssen)
[16:37:28] <skamster_>	http://death-head.ch/pubwiki/index.php?title=ImportExport&setlang=de
[16:37:39] <skamster_>	would be great, if someone could help me..
[16:39:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) CheckUser doesn't return results intermittently - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19081  +comment (10mike.lifeguard)
[16:39:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Invisible revision in "Deleted user contributions" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19864  (10danny.leinad)
[16:41:24] <CIA-69>	03brion * r54025 10/trunk/extensions/CodeReview/ (CodeReview.php Subversion.php): 
[16:41:24] <CIA-69>	Add --trust-server-cert to default SVN command-line options to allow out-of-the-box compat with HTTPS repos for anonymous checkout (eg SourceForge).
[16:41:24] <CIA-69>	$wgSubversionOptions now configurable, defaults to "--non-interactive --trust-server-cert".
[16:42:25] <brion>	Confucious: ^ that should do it the manual accept doesn't :) 
[16:42:28] <brion>	*if
[16:43:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Source change - Portuguese Wikipedia logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20016  (10brion)
[16:43:37] *AaronSchulz 	likes how facebook doesn't load at all without JS
[16:44:12] <Confucious>	kk. i noted down the Subversion.php mod just in case. Just a pain working from CronJob vs bash, lol
[16:44:39] <wikibugs>	03(mod) wrap extension version on Special:Version into a span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20013   +easy (10brion)
[16:44:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) wrap rights on Special:ListGroupRights into a span - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20014   +easy (10brion)
[16:44:47] <Confucious>	had to go in a mod files for literal paths due to the way they set the CronJob up. But it's worth it :)
[16:45:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) CheckUser doesn't return results intermittently - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19081  (10JSchulz_4587)
[16:46:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) line breaks on Special:Allmessages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20007  +comment (10brion)
[16:48:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Shake for random in Wikipedia Mobile - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19997  +comment (10brion)
[16:50:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) interwiki link for strategy wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19994  (10brion)
[16:52:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Don't link to empty css - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19995   +patch; +comment (10brion)
[16:52:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Source change - Portuguese Wikipedia logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20016  +comment (10str4nd)
[16:55:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Namespace hiding on Special:Search - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19996   +patch; +comment (10brion)
[16:55:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change autoconfirmed settings on plwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19993  (10brion)
[16:56:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Install ReaderFeedback on strategy.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19988  +comment (10brion)
[16:59:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Source change - Portuguese Wikipedia logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20016  +comment (10Platonides)
[17:07:27] <CIA-69>	03tparscal * r54026 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/NavigableTOC/NavigableTOC.hooks.php: Removed redundant inclusion of jquery.wikiOutline.js (which was being included from the wrong directory anyways)
[17:08:18] <brion__>	trying out https://webchat.freenode.net/ :D
[17:09:01] <str4nd>	yea, it's n+1 times better than that stupid java applet
[17:11:30] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54027 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialDeletedContributions.php: Follow-up to r54016: deletedcontribs
[17:11:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Namespace hiding on Special:Search - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19996  (10Platonides)
[17:12:08] <Confucious>	brion : that fixed it (the manual), thanks mate :)
[17:13:18] <werdna>	Confucious say "Thank you"
[17:13:20] *werdna 	hides
[17:13:48] <brion-meeting>	yay
[17:14:55] <Confucious>	I'd recommend mentioning that stuff either in comments, or in the install notes. Course I am partial, because it affected me, hehehe
[17:15:07] <brion-meeting>	:D
[17:20:47] <CIA-69>	03dale * r54028 10/trunk/phase3/js2/mwEmbed/libAddMedia/mvFirefogg.js: * mvFirefogg refactoring for better reuse
[17:22:28] <ipatrol>	I just convinced another wiki to change to MediaWiki
[17:32:01] <AaronSchulz>	brion: can $wgUseOldSearchUI go yet?
[17:32:10] <brion_>	yeah let's kill it :D
[17:32:40] <AaronSchulz>	is it set to false on wmf?
[17:33:32] <AaronSchulz>	doesn't seem to be
[17:33:44] <brion>	yeah we're using the new search ui since a frew weeks ago
[17:34:04] <CIA-69>	03philip * r54029 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Update the Chinese conversion tables.
[17:34:21] <brion>	    'default' => false, // -- bv 2009-07-01
[17:34:40] <brion>	ok my eyes are burning... back to colloquy
[17:35:14] <AaronSchulz>	ahh, I was searching with the '$'
[17:36:36] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54030 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (DefaultSettings.php specials/SpecialSearch.php): Removed $wgUseOldSearchUI and old search ui class
[17:39:54] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) RevisionDelete: No recreate-warning after a page has been suppress-deleted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19823  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[17:40:56] <meth>	can you actually have variable arugments and loop over it ?
[17:44:03] *^demon 	wonders how many other temp testing variables like $wgUseOldSearchUI are still lying around, waiting for some lovin'
[17:44:28] <brion>	http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/ :D
[17:44:51] <svip>	Ah, brion.  Our resident *pun*ister.
[17:46:16] <brion>	^demon: maybe time to do a search around.....
[17:47:45] <Colonel_Klink>	Hey Guys!
[17:47:52] <^demon>	brion: Yeah, it's on my big list of things to go over :)
[17:48:06] <^demon>	btw: here's the exact bug I'm having http://bitbucket.org/slug/qwebirc/issue/76/clear-stops-tab-switching :)
[17:49:43] <^demon>	AaronSchulz: Does it need removing from the Autoloader too?
[17:49:48] <Colonel_Klink>	Can someone tell me where i can find the mediawiki:site where i can add a announcement on the top?
[17:50:19] <^demon>	!sitenotice
[17:50:19] --mwbot--	Sitenotice is a wiki-wide message that appears at the top of the page for all users. It is editable by users in the sysop usergroup at [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]]. See also: !anonnotice
[17:51:05] <Colonel_Klink>	thanks demon! :)
[17:51:39] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r54031 10/tags/extensions/Maps/REL_0_2_1/: Tag for version 0.2.1
[17:51:58] <AlexSm>	rainman-sr: hi, are you the one responsible for the new Search page interface?
[17:52:02] <brion>	http://tinyurl.com/l2lc4p :D
[17:52:09] <CIA-69>	03yaron * r54032 10/tags/extensions/SemanticMaps/REL_0_2_1/: Tag for version 0.2.1
[17:59:06] <rainman-sr>	AlexSm, I did most of the implementing, Trevor did most of the design, partly based on my earlier never-went-live redesign
[17:59:46] <AlexSm>	rainman-sr:  ok, can we please have just one "header" system message on Search?
[17:59:57] <AlexSm>	to put [[Wikipedia:Searching]]
[18:00:14] <AlexSm>	or is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Searchmenu-help going to show itself at some point?
[18:01:13] <rainman-sr>	dunno, that was from the earlier design, i guess no-one clicked that link or actually read the page
[18:01:55] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54033 10/trunk/phase3/ (includes/Article.php languages/messages/MessagesEn.php): 
[18:01:55] <CIA-69>	* Separated some delete & suppress message headers (bug 18839)
[18:01:55] <CIA-69>	* rev-deleted message cleanup with log links
[18:02:21] <AlexSm>	I understand "clean interface" concept but not having _any_ help just doesn't seem right
[18:02:24] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Misleading text/layout in RevisionDelete - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18839  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[18:03:41] <rainman-sr>	i think that's why we have the "Help and Project" tab now
[18:04:28] <vimpulse>	hi all.  Thanks for working on MediaWiki:  it's great software.  A question:  I've been reading an article[*] at www.chestjournal.org and when you point at a footnote number, the site pops up a little tooltip with the citation in it.  1.  Do you agree that's useful?  2.  Can MediaWiki do anything similar so that users don't have to scroll down to the References section to read the text of the citation?
[18:04:28] <vimpulse>	^  [*].  http://www.chestjournal.org/content/129/1_suppl/72S.full
[18:04:54] <CIA-69>	03purodha * r54034 10/trunk/extensions/Configure/Configure.settings.i18n.php: 
[18:04:54] <CIA-69>	CC -> Creative Commons, according to suggestion of EugeneZelenko at:
[18:04:54] <CIA-69>	http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Support&oldid=1337805#Configure-setting-wgEnableCreativeCommonsRdf
[18:06:51] <AlexSm>	right ... I have to do a search to find the help how to search
[18:08:19] <svip>	Blargh.
[18:08:29] <rainman-sr>	or you could click on the "help" link the left sidebar, and then click on "searching articles"
[18:08:32] <svip>	I am so in doubt about how to reskin this wiki.
[18:09:06] <vimpulse>	svip:  why do you *want* to reskin MediaWiki?  :)
[18:09:11] <rainman-sr>	AlexSm, no doubt that text and help that was previously on special:search is useful sometimes, but is in fact useless in 99% of cases, that's why it was removed
[18:09:15] <svip>	vimpulse: To stand out?
[18:09:20] <vimpulse>	svip:  URL?
[18:09:27] <svip>	http://new.theinfosphere.org/
[18:09:37] <Splarka>	body { background-color: #ff00ff;}
[18:09:50] <svip>	You can see our old design here: http://theinfosphere.org/
[18:10:29] <svip>	And by old, I mean current.
[18:10:55] <svip>	And it does not have werdna's seal of approval!
[18:11:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) RevisionDelete: hidden users appear in log entries created after the hiding - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18383  (10JSchulz_4587)
[18:11:43] <AlexSm>	rainman-sr: I didn't like that text in enwiki either, but on my home wiki we only had one very clean link to Help page; now I'm seriously considering using JS to re-add it back ...
[18:12:28] <vimpulse>	svip:  your site is nice enough.  Just curious:  What changes do you want to make by designing a new skin?  Disclaimer:  I don't know anything about MediaWiki skinning.
[18:12:54] <svip>	vimpulse: More simplistic, though I am thinking of using the same colour scheme.
[18:13:16] <svip>	I just like the Vector skin compared to the Monobook skin.
[18:13:32] <vimpulse>	svip:  Do you mean you want to hide UI elements?  I hate it when sites do that.  The Sonic Retro wiki did it once, and I think they still do.  Bad.  :)
[18:13:55] <svip>	vimpulse: No no.  I mean, it is purely a colour scheme change.
[18:14:04] <svip>	Just based on a different skin.
[18:14:57] <rainman-sr>	AlexSm, well it's true new search ui is not as generic as it could be.... that's why i'm not sure we yet want to remove the old one
[18:17:02] <^demon>	brion: Maintenance question. Is $wgUseRootUser used in some super seekrit WMF config? I only find it one place (set to true in maintenance/fixSlaveDesync.php), and it doesn't seem to affect anything else in core code. I'm inclined to remove that assignment if it doesn't botch anything in WMF.
[18:18:28] <brion>	lemme check
[18:18:31] <^demon>	K.
[18:19:11] <Splarka>	svip: you should use the "Internet" color scheme: http://www.futurama-madhouse.com.ar/alien/2acv09/sign2_h.jpg
[18:19:25] <brion>	our AdminSettings.php uses it
[18:19:26] <Splarka>	give everything a dark green tinge with neon green borders
[18:19:35] <brion>	kinda sketchy imo :)
[18:19:56] <^demon>	brion: I already stabbed, burnt, drowned and buried AdminSettings in trunk :)
[18:20:07] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Mailinglist for the no.wp bureaucrats - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18665  +comment (10cbass)
[18:22:55] <^demon>	brion: Fwiw, $wgUseRootUser has been in fixSlaveDesync since Tim wrote it in r11171 :)
[18:22:55] <brion>	\o/
[18:23:31] <svip>	Splarka: Nooooo
[18:23:54] <Splarka>	"stabbed, burned, drowned and buried" == "Remove AdminSettings requirements. Maintenance environment will still load it if it exists, but it's not required for anything"
[18:23:56] <Splarka>	??
[18:24:05] *Splarka 	pokles demon
[18:24:18] <Splarka>	svip: Yeeeeeeeees!
[18:24:47] <svip>	!!!
[18:24:47] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "!!". You might try: !!!! !?! 
[18:25:08] <^demon>	Splarka: Well, lots of people will still have AdminSettings lying around, so I made it still load those if they're around (otherwise people who didn't read the RELEASE-NOTES will bitch when their scripts don't work).
[18:25:56] <^demon>	Splarka: I guess I stabbed, burned, drowned and buried it, but it was still kinda alive :)
[18:26:04] <^demon>	So like zombie AdminSettings is under the ground somewhere.
[18:26:22] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) Don't link to empty css - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19995  +comment (10dale)
[18:26:30] <Splarka>	you should rename it to ZombieSettings then
[18:28:10] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54035 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialListusers.php: (bug 18531) Show hidden users on listusers for oversights
[18:28:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Don't link to empty css - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19995  (10brion)
[18:28:46] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Hiding can hide a bit too well - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18531  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[18:29:50] <Subfader>	is there a way to change the html title per page? e.g. via template: "{{PAGENAME}} - Custom addition"
[18:30:20] <Splarka>	parser functions
[18:30:24] <Subfader>	so the title of page Foo would be "Foo - Custom addition - Wikiname"
[18:31:30] <Splarka>	http://test.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Pagetitle&diff=42027&oldid=23940
[18:31:56] <Splarka>	though, not needed for your Mainpage anymore as there is a custom message just for it
[18:32:52] *AaronSchulz 	reads halfway through https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17806 and gets bored
[18:35:20] <^demon>	AaronSchulz: I can haz commit? http://pastey.net/118852
[18:36:22] <CIA-69>	03aaron * r54036 10/trunk/phase3/includes/AutoLoader.php: rm more SpecialSearchOld cruft
[18:36:27] <AaronSchulz>	are you behind SAT-3 :)
[18:36:41] <^demon>	Huh?
[18:37:23] <AaronSchulz>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT-3/WASC_%28cable_system%29#History
[18:37:37] <AaronSchulz>	lol, wp has it before wikinews
[18:37:59] <^demon>	Heh, no. I'm behind a stupid work proxy that blocks everything not port 80. And I can't be bothered to set up some forwarding on my VPS.
[18:40:12] <Subfader>	Splarka: No I actually mean it for onlyl a few pages, like some special categories which are important and should have more info in the html title for Google
[18:40:44] <Splarka>	yes, read/see what I said
[18:41:04] <Splarka>	you can use parserfunctions in MediaWiki:Pagetitle to do that
[18:41:39] <Subfader>	ah #ifeq. of cos
[18:41:42] <Subfader>	coolio
[18:42:46] <Splarka>	well, probably #switch for multiple cases
[18:43:29] <Splarka>	AaronSchulz: damn, how can I keep getting sums of $35,000,000 (thirty five million dollars uS) from my Nigerian prince friends
[18:44:20] <vimpulse>	shortened repeat:  At http://www.chestjournal.org/content/129/1_suppl/72S.full , when you point at a footnote number, you see a citation tooltip.  Quick poll:  Do you agree that's useful?
[18:47:46] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54037 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/language/messages.inc: Follow-up r54033: Add new message keys to maintenance script
[18:48:58] <^demon>	Splarka: You get those too? I thought I was the only one who had the rich uncle die and leave me $45mil, which I can obtain by sending $100 via wire transfer to Nigeria :p
[18:49:25] <^demon>	My question is: who the hell actually falls for that crap? I really want to know so I can beat the living crap out of them.
[18:50:39] <Splarka>	there's about one a week on fark.com
[18:50:51] <GreenReaper>	Some people appear to have a medical condition that leaves them susceptible to it.
[18:51:10] <^demon>	Stupid isn't in the DSM-IV, sadly.
[18:51:39] <Nikerabbit>	!wg wgMemCachedServers
[18:51:39] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgwgMemCachedServers
[18:54:28] <meth>	there is no conditionals ?
[18:55:23] <CIA-69>	03strainu * r54038 10/trunk/tools/planet/ro/config.ini: Added 2 more blogs
[18:56:17] <Splarka>	^demon: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Afark.com+fall+nigerian
[18:57:14] <^demon>	Heh
[19:00:41] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: You around?
[19:01:10] <rainman-sr>	aye
[19:01:40] <alxndr>	How long does the autoblock for an IP address of a blocked user last? ...slash how can I turn it off?
[19:02:39] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Could you please edit http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/Cyrillic and use the Special characters thing in the toolbar to create the equivalent of A a B b ... in the Cyrillic alphabet?
[19:03:14] <RoanKattouw>	Basically they're sorted like ABCD...Zabcd...z in the toolbar right now and we want AaBbCc...Zz but since I can't read Cyrillic I need help to make that change
[19:04:09] <rainman-sr>	you know there are many cyrillic alphabets, not one, right?
[19:04:21] <rainman-sr>	or you want serbian cyrillic?
[19:04:58] <Emachman>	Is there a mediawiki.org crat available?
[19:05:02] <rainman-sr>	btw which special characters thing? I get the old toolbar when i try to edit that page
[19:05:24] <^demon>	Emachman: Crat or sysop?
[19:05:30] <Emachman>	Crat.
[19:05:32] <roberthl>	there is a crat available
[19:05:35] <roberthl>	what do you need?
[19:05:42] <Simetrical>	Multiple crats.
[19:05:57] <Emachman>	An usurp.
[19:06:44] <roberthl>	see Project:Requests
[19:06:56] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Clear cache; dammit, well isn't there some well-defined ordering in the presented characters that you can change to group uppercase and lowercase together as I described?
[19:07:19] <Simetrical>	^demon, what's your mediawiki.org username?
[19:07:41] <^demon>	Simetrical: Same as IRC
[19:08:13] <Simetrical>	Oh, I see, there are multiple pages of admins on mediawiki.org.  :)
[19:08:56] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, ok, so this thing you have currently is a superset of all cyrillic alphabets, I could try to group them together as uppercase/lowercase by hand, but i think you could do it via unicode as well?
[19:09:03] <Simetrical>	^demon, promoted you to crat.
[19:09:06] <Nikerabbit>	Class MemcachedClientforWiki not found; skipped loading
[19:09:09] <Nikerabbit>	wtf does that mean
[19:09:11] <rainman-sr>	the order is different in every language, although generally similar i would imagine
[19:09:24] <Simetrical>	Kind of like Latin, then?
[19:09:35] <^demon>	Simetrical: Ah ok, thanks I guess :)
[19:10:23] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: I have no clue about how to do it through Unicode; also, there seems to be an order in there already except that it has all uppercase letters first, then all lowercase letters. If you could reproduce that in the same order except grouping uppercase and lowercase of the same letter together, that'd be nice. I did the same for Latin and Greek but I can't reliably match upper and...
[19:10:25] <RoanKattouw>	...lower Cyrillic letters
[19:10:27] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, actually, some letters are missing, like Ђ (not same as Ћ)
[19:10:50] *RoanKattouw 	just stole this set from dewp
[19:10:56] <^demon>	Splarka: Heh, from fark: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/apple-claims-jailbreaking-could-bring-down-the-network.ars
[19:11:02] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Feel free to add those as well
[19:11:05] <rainman-sr>	oh it's there actually
[19:11:35] <Nikerabbit>	are class names case insensitive?
[19:11:58] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: In PHP?
[19:12:05] <RoanKattouw>	Function names are, not sure about class names
[19:12:23] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, I'm pretty sure class names are case-insensitive too
[19:12:29] <RoanKattouw>	Seen people use XML::whatever()
[19:12:51] <^demon>	xMl::eLeMENt()
[19:12:53] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0400.pdf
[19:13:38] <Nikerabbit>	does anybody actually use memcached with mediawiki?
[19:13:48] <GreenReaper>	Wikimedia.
[19:13:53] *GreenReaper 	uses just APC, having just one server.
[19:14:04] <Nikerabbit>	why is so ... broken with memcached
[19:14:05] <GreenReaper>	Wikia probably uses it as well.
[19:14:08] <Nikerabbit>	http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Main_Page
[19:14:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Bundle anti-spam extensions in distribution packages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9034  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[19:14:35] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: I'll try that one, thanks
[19:14:42] <Simetrical>	Anyone with more than one app server uses memcached with MediaWiki, I'd hope.
[19:15:10] <Nikerabbit>	it's dead slow and everything is broken :E
[19:15:24] <GreenReaper>	Well you're doing it wrong! ;-p
[19:15:30] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, from what I can see the upper/lower are ordered the same
[19:15:40] <GreenReaper>	Maybe it can't access the server.
[19:15:51] <GreenReaper>	(the memcache server, that is)
[19:15:52] <Splarka>	^demon: hate apple
[19:15:55] <Nikerabbit>	yeah right
[19:15:58] <Nikerabbit>	let's try again
[19:16:33] <GreenReaper>	Is there a reason to go to it vs. keeping user data in APC?
[19:16:51] <^demon>	Splarka: Yeah heh
[19:16:51] <GreenReaper>	You appear to have plenty of free space.
[19:17:13] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: yes, apc gets empty every time I have to restart lighttpd
[19:17:31] <GreenReaper>	Update to the latest trunk version and use the save/load data stuff 
[19:17:51] <Nikerabbit>	still talking to me?
[19:17:57] <GreenReaper>	Yes
[19:18:05] <Nikerabbit>	latest version of what?
[19:18:10] <GreenReaper>	Of APC>
[19:19:01] <Nikerabbit>	well, since it is marked as unstable, pecl doesn't even update to latest *releases*
[19:19:18] <GreenReaper>	I know.
[19:19:30] <GreenReaper>	Your other option is the bindump patch: http://tekrat.com/php/apc_bindump/
[19:19:46] <GreenReaper>	which is basically what was merged into trunk.
[19:19:50] <GreenReaper>	or getting memcached to work. :-)
[19:19:55] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: it works now
[19:19:57] <Nikerabbit>	<!-- Served in 0.173 secs. -->
[19:19:59] <Nikerabbit>	I like that
[19:20:29] <Nikerabbit>	that is faster than enwiki main page :)
[19:20:58] <Nikerabbit>	but probably slower than a squid or whatever
[19:23:44] <Simetrical>	I'd think a tier-one Squid hit would be submillisecond.
[19:23:55] <GreenReaper>	Well, the served comment wouldn't differ, because it serves cached output, including the comment. It will probably be even faster if you go to another page and then go back.
[19:24:18] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: I don't think it would really benefit translatewiki.net, as most of our users are logged in
[19:24:25] <Simetrical>	Probably.
[19:24:29] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: I used ?action=purge
[19:24:53] <Nikerabbit>	while logged in
[19:24:56] <GreenReaper>	OK, well that should give you a fairly good idea of how heavy the page is - probably not very.
[19:26:31] <CIA-69>	03nikerabbit * r54039 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ObjectCache.php: Consistent letter case
[19:26:38] <Nikerabbit>	yah
[19:26:39] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw: yikes, a lot of redundancy in EditToolbar.js ... even if gzipping makes it small, couldn't you define arrays or ranges of characters that happen to have the same properties, and generate the objects from them, in many cases?
[19:27:04] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Yes, we should, I know
[19:27:19] <RoanKattouw>	I'll make a convenience function for that
[19:27:20] <Splarka>	k, still WIP then
[19:28:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Bundle anti-spam extensions in distribution packages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9034  +comment (10mike.lifeguard)
[19:29:18] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54040 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/js/ (jquery.combined.js jquery.combined.min.js jquery.toolbar.js): EditToolbar: Fix bug breaking booklet selection highlighting; using conflicting commands in a chained call doesn't work.
[19:30:25] <alxndr>	Anyone know of a way to turn off autoblock on MW 1.6?
[19:31:58] <vimpulse>	alxndr:  I don't know.  Why?
[19:32:09] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: so is it now as fast as it can go?
[19:33:31] <alxndr>	Company wiki; blocked an account to get people to use their own accounts, but we're on the same network so the whole building's IP address is now blocked and no one can do anything.
[19:34:25] <Simetrical>	Recent versions allow disabling autoblocks on a per-block basis, IIRC.  1.6 is ancient, I have no idea about it.
[19:34:47] <Simetrical>	You should still be able to log in as a sysop and undo the block manually, though.
[19:37:35] <GreenReaper>	Nikerabbit: Well, "as fast as it could go" is debatable. I would say that APC is probably faster, though perhaps not by much. As for Squid, it helps you for anonymous users but not so much for those logged in. 
[19:38:00] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: why would it be faster? :o
[19:38:03] <GreenReaper>	Speed-wise, there's a lot of suggestions on my lightning talk here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wiki-Conference_2009#Lightning_Talks
[19:38:11] <GreenReaper>	Because you don't have the overhead of a socket connection. It's just a call.
[19:38:47] <Nikerabbit>	should not be a big deal
[19:39:01] <GreenReaper>	Depends how much it's called.
[19:39:36] <GreenReaper>	Anyway, there's a bunch of stuff you can do but it depends how far you want to go and how willing you are to maintain that.
[19:39:54] <Nikerabbit>	oh, and user styles are minimised
[19:39:56] <^demon>	Stupid Canadian dime.
[19:39:57] <GreenReaper>	For example we have to re-minify Javascript every time we push a new build, although it could probably be fully automated.
[19:40:06] <^demon>	Sitting in my pocket pretending to be a real dime.
[19:40:12] <^demon>	But nooooo, it had to be Canadian
[19:40:18] <^demon>	And not work in the vending machine.
[19:41:02] <Splarka>	^demon: what year?
[19:45:19] <GreenReaper>	Nikerabbit: I see you have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Minify - didn't know about that one!
[19:45:39] <Skyrider>	Howdy, again! :P
[19:46:47] <^demon>	Splarka: I didn't check. I threw it at a coworker :p
[19:47:09] <GreenReaper>	Though I have to wonder what the cost is, minification isn't cheap.
[19:47:25] <Guest88086>	Hey ^demon
[19:47:27] <Guest88086>	...
[19:47:39] <^demon>	Yes?
[19:47:48] <FF|Skyrider>	Is there any way I can change the perl mail path of the wiki?
[19:48:09] <Simetrical>	GreenReaper, what's not cheap about it?
[19:48:28] <Simetrical>	You mean in CPU cycles?  Presumably you'd cache the minified form, yes?
[19:48:38] <^demon>	FF|Skyrider: I don't think so. MW either uses PEAR's Mail for SMTP or PHP's built in mail(). You can configure sendmail's path for mail() in php.ini, iirc.
[19:49:54] <FF|Skyrider>	PEAR mail?
[19:49:57] <FF|Skyrider>	or Perl mail?
[19:50:34] <^demon>	For SMTP we use PEAR mail. Otherwise we default to whatever mail() does.
[19:50:54] <^demon>	(About which I know _nothing_, there's people in here who know more than I)
[19:51:38] <GreenReaper>	Simetrical: Yes, you should.
[19:51:42] <GreenReaper>	I don't know if it does, though.
[19:51:48] <GreenReaper>	that would be the question.
[19:53:06] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: should be cheap enough, no?
[19:53:22] <GreenReaper>	I don't know, I haven't tried it. :-)
[19:53:29] <GreenReaper>	It is all native PHP, which is good.
[19:53:29] <Nikerabbit>	I don't think this extensions caches anything more than what is default
[19:53:37] <GreenReaper>	I was worried it was calling out to Java
[19:54:10] <Simetrical>	Java's a heck of a lot faster than PHP.
[19:54:39] <Splarka>	^demon: http://www.coinscan.com/technical/canasp.html  .. I like the 1968-1999 dimes, pure nickel (not cupro-nickel like the US "nickel")
[19:54:41] *Nikerabbit 	is evol
[19:54:52] <Nikerabbit>	http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&translations=filter
[19:55:00] <Nikerabbit>	oh my god konqueror renders fast
[19:55:12] <Simetrical>	Faster than WebKit?
[19:55:13] <GreenReaper>	Simetrical: Not if you have to *load* Java. :-)
[19:55:31] <Nikerabbit>	Simetrical: dunno
[19:55:44] <Nikerabbit>	GreenReaper: notice anything different in that? :)
[19:56:31] <Nikerabbit>	hmm
[19:56:38] <Nikerabbit>	the search bar is broken in konqueror
[19:56:50] <Nikerabbit>	cannot move focus to it with a mouse
[19:56:57] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: The Vector one?
[19:57:21] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: modern
[19:57:29] <rainman-sr>	known bug
[19:57:37] <Nikerabbit>	works in vector
[19:57:44] <Nikerabbit>	rainman-sr: known as in bugzilla?
[19:58:38] <rainman-sr>	yeah
[19:58:49] <Nikerabbit>	rainman-sr: you are awesome
[19:58:57] <rainman-sr>	:P
[19:59:16] <Nikerabbit>	hmm
[19:59:21] <Nikerabbit>	I should try vector
[19:59:48] <roberthl>	it's good
[20:00:02] <Nikerabbit>	argh
[20:00:12] <Nikerabbit>	special:preferences text alignment kills me
[20:00:47] *Nikerabbit 	copies .page-Special_Preferences .mw-label { text-align: left !important; } from modern.css
[20:00:58] <Simetrical>	^demon, you made all the padding changes to {{WikipediaSister}} but then didn't remove the cellpadding="4", which was the point.  :)  Compare: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikipediaSister&diff=304781615&oldid=304480975 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Simetrical/WikipediaSister&diff=301754386&oldid=301754045
[20:01:53] <^demon>	Simetrical: Done
[20:02:27] <Simetrical>	^demon, hurrah.  It should now validate on the next scap.
[20:05:24] <FF|Skyrider>	^demon, can SMTP use the default php?
[20:05:35] <FF|Skyrider>	If so, how do I change that? :o
[20:06:32] <^demon>	Simetrical: There seems to be a leftover colspan in [[Main Page]] itself, as well as some leftover <a name> tags.
[20:07:03] <^demon>	Hmmm, but it's not getting sent with content?
[20:07:04] <Simetrical>	^demon, colspan is valid.  <a name> should disappear on scap.
[20:07:10] *^demon 	tries to decipher the parserfunctions
[20:07:16] <^demon>	Simetrical: Oh yeah :p
[20:07:19] <roberthl>	Does anoyne else find the code review slows down Firefox 3.5 quite signficiantly?
[20:07:24] <FF|Skyrider>	Second line meant for me demon? :P
[20:07:25] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: Special:Expandtemplates ?
[20:07:45] <RoanKattouw>	roberthl: My general experience with FF 3.5 is that JS is a lot faster
[20:08:04] <roberthl>	When I load Special:Code/MediaWiki it hangs for 5 - 10 seconds and I can't do anything.
[20:08:28] <FF|Skyrider>	^demon
[20:08:31] <FF|Skyrider>	can I PM you something?
[20:08:46] <^demon>	FF|Skyrider: I don't really have time right now :-\
[20:08:48] <roberthl>	BUt in general Fx 3.5 is a lot faster.
[20:09:12] <FF|Skyrider>	*shrugs*, shame. I get an error when I enter an email in my profile.
[20:09:19] <RoanKattouw>	roberthl: Doesn't happen for me
[20:09:31] <FF|Skyrider>	Warning: UserMailer::require_once(Mail.php)
[20:09:49] <RoanKattouw>	FF|Skyrider: You probably don't have the PEAR Mail module installed
[20:09:55] <RoanKattouw>	Use SMTP if at all possible
[20:10:14] <FF|Skyrider>	I added the SMTP information in my local file.
[20:10:20] <FF|Skyrider>	As for PEAR mail, It is installed.
[20:10:26] <^demon|verybusy>	RoanKattouw: PEAR's Mail is required for SMTP
[20:10:44] <RoanKattouw>	^^
[20:10:52] <RoanKattouw>	Didn't know that
[20:11:08] <Splarka>	roberthl: do you use scapmap gadget?
[20:11:29] <roberthl>	No, at least not intentionally...
[20:11:59] <roberthl>	Nope, not enabled.
[20:12:14] <CIA-69>	03tparscal * r54041 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Restructure the UI, cleaned up code in the textSelection plugin and fixed impropper section 0 behavior.
[20:12:46] <Splarka>	roberthl: to doublecheck, if you disable JS is it fast again?
[20:13:09] <FF|Skyrider>	Does anyone knows where the mail script is located of smtp?
[20:13:45] <roberthl>	Splarka: No.
[20:13:55] <CIA-69>	03raymond * r54042 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (45 files): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-07-30 19:50 UTC)
[20:14:00] <Splarka>	roberthl: huh, how many revs loading? 50?
[20:15:20] <FF|Skyrider>	no one I suppose :p
[20:16:27] <roberthl>	Splarka: About 1000, the "Show __ items per page [Go]" thing doesn't seem to work.
[20:16:55] <Splarka>	hmm, WFM... but loading 1000 does bog down most browsers
[20:17:02] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki?limit=50
[20:17:08] <Splarka>	is that fast?
[20:17:09] <roberthl>	hmm, it works if you explicitly request it
[20:17:12] <roberthl>	yes, it is
[20:17:17] <Splarka>	k
[20:17:24] <roberthl>	but if you don't specifiy a limit i get 100
[20:17:26] <roberthl>	*1000
[20:17:31] <Splarka>	must be your prefs
[20:17:35] <roberthl>	yup, thank you
[20:17:47] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki?useskin=monobook&limit=1000  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki?useskin=vector&limit=1000  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki?useskin=modern&limit=1000
[20:17:50] <Splarka>	are these all equally slow?
[20:18:00] <roberthl>	yes
[20:18:22] <roberthl>	actually monobook is a lot quicker
[20:18:22] <Splarka>	still, 10 seconds is a bit long for friggen 3.5
[20:18:27] <Splarka>	huh
[20:18:35] <roberthl>	modern and vector are a lot slower
[20:18:37] <Splarka>	monobook wins!
[20:18:44] <Splarka>	usability take note, heh
[20:18:45] <roberthl>	lol
[20:19:19] <roberthl>	i will reduce my preferences to a sane amount anyway, 1000 is fine in recent changes - but that isn't as rich as codereview
[20:19:24] <roberthl>	in terms of layout, that is
[20:20:38] <CIA-69>	03nikerabbit * r54043 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/Translate.css: Remove excess space here
[20:20:48] <Sonja>	how do i set the licence in the footer?
[20:20:53] <Sonja>	do i have to edit settings.php ?
[20:20:57] <Sonja>	if i want to use cc, for example
[20:21:20] <Duesentrieb>	yes, all settings are in LocalSettings.php
[20:21:29] <Duesentrieb>	maybe the bot as the link?
[20:21:32] <Duesentrieb>	!license
[20:21:32] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "license". You might try: !copyright !credit !import 
[20:21:45] <Duesentrieb>	hm... doesn't look like it.
[20:21:50] <Reedy>	!copyright
[20:21:50] --mwbot--	MediaWiki is copyright (C) 2001-2009 Magnus Manske, Brion Vibber, Lee Daniel Crocker, Tim Starling, Erik Möller, Gabriel Wicke, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Niklas Laxström, Domas Mituzas, Rob Church, Yuri Astrakhan, Aryeh Gregor, Aaron Schulz and others. It is under GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License or later.
[20:21:51] <Splarka>	roberthl: if you were so inclined, you could do some html-edit debugging to find the problems in modern/vector, eg save the html source, <base> it, and then remove stuff until it is fast again, but that is a bit of work for probably "WONTFIX"
[20:21:55] <Reedy>	hmm
[20:22:01] <Splarka>	@search license
[20:22:01] --mwbot--	Results: [copyright, credit, import]
[20:22:10] <Simetrical>	That's a stupid message.
[20:22:18] <Simetrical>	Especially how it pings half the developers in the channel.
[20:22:20] <Simetrical>	!copyright del
[20:22:20] --mwbot--	Successfully removed keyword: copyright
[20:22:25] <Splarka>	copywrong!
[20:22:31] <Sonja>	hehe
[20:22:34] <charitwo>	copydown
[20:22:50] <Reedy>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:LocalSettings.php#Setting_copyright_for_the_site
[20:23:00] <Sonja>	thanks ready
[20:23:16] <vvv>	Simetrical: half? I see only two
[20:23:20] <FF|Skyrider>	I'm so confused! :(
[20:23:33] <Guest543675>	http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5689/20090730201259.png <- like wikidpad; mediawiki imitation; operates on mediawiki xml dump. no system requirements; public domain (but monobook skin must be gpled???????)
[20:23:34] <Simetrical>	vvv, it pinged me, anyway.  :)
[20:28:54] <CIA-69>	03daniel * r54044 10/trunk/WikiWord/WikiWordBuilder/src/main/java/de/brightbyte/wikiword/ (2 files in 2 dirs): optimized regex generated by templatePattern; previous try performed terribly
[20:29:44] <roberthl>	Splarka: yeah, not worth the time
[20:30:31] <linnuxxy>	I am trying to import xml dump to local wikipedia image... but i am getting Empty document error! what is going wrong?
[20:34:49] <FF|Skyrider>	:S
[20:34:52] <FF|Skyrider>	I'm stuck myself
[20:35:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) "Hide user" checkbox on Special:Block does not convey the gravity of that action - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18678  (10mike.lifeguard)
[20:36:02] <FF|Skyrider>	Getting Warning: UserMailer::require_once(Mail.php) [function.UserMailer-require-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in xxxx.com/includes/UserMailer.php on line 119
[20:38:18] <FF|Skyrider>	No idea how to fix this..
[20:41:25] <OverlordQ>	install PEAR
[20:43:13] <FF|Skyrider>	its already installed
[20:43:14] <FF|Skyrider>	Thats the thing
[20:44:17] <FF|Skyrider>	Any other idea's?
[20:45:06] <OverlordQ>	is the mail package installed?
[20:47:19] <FF|Skyrider>	Yup
[20:48:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Page shown as draft after being sighted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18419  (10gtisza)
[20:49:41] <FF|Skyrider>	any idea? :P
[20:51:12] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54045 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/FFS.php: 
[20:51:12] <CIA-69>	Translate:
[20:51:12] <CIA-69>	* Fix syntax error in the last line of JavaScript output.
[20:51:12] <CIA-69>	* Remove comma from the end of the last message to prevent errors in Internet Explorer.
[20:52:50] <cyth>	I upgraded to 1.14.0 and now I have a single parser extension that won't parse
[20:53:31] <cyth>	I confirmed it's getting run, magicword and setup is running, but I still have {{#parserfuncname}} unparsed in my wiki page.
[20:53:45] <cyth>	and I'm not seeing any errors from php either
[20:54:01] <FF|Skyrider>	no one I bet
[20:54:01] <FF|Skyrider>	:(
[20:58:07] <Prodego>	cyth: what extention, what is the parser function name
[20:58:38] <FF|Skyrider>	:(
[20:59:13] <cyth>	Prodego, I called it feedread
[20:59:47] <cyth>	Prodego, in Special:Version I see the Setup in Extension Functions and feedread in Parser Function Hooks
[21:00:04] <Prodego>	cyth: so it is a function you added yourself
[21:00:12] <cyth>	Prodego, yes I wrote it.
[21:00:24] <Prodego>	do you want to pastebin the code?
[21:00:39] <cyth>	I could hold on
[21:02:13] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54046 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ffs/OpenLayers.php: 
[21:02:13] <CIA-69>	Translate:
[21:02:13] <CIA-69>	* Apply previous commit to old ffs, translatewiki.net still uses that for OpenLayers.
[21:03:02] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54047 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/ffs/OpenLayers.php: 
[21:03:02] <CIA-69>	Translate:
[21:03:02] <CIA-69>	* Fix typo in previous commit, sorry.
[21:03:06] <chasep_work>	I'm sure its there, but I cant find it. How can I set it so it shows the real name, not username, of the logged in user in the upper right corner?
[21:03:39] <cyth>	Prodego, http://codepad.org/FFv2xSiP
[21:04:13] <RoanKattouw>	chasep_work: Modify the link text using the SkinTemplateTabs hook
[21:05:45] <cyth>	Prodego, result from that is the page just shows: {{#feedread:http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot|5}} as though it's not even trying to parse that.
[21:05:55] <chasep_work>	RoanKattouw: hmm, okay..thanks... looks a bit more involved than I have time for today, but I'll look at it more next week
[21:06:01] <Ose>	has anyone ever experienced a stringfunction somehow inserting the words on or off into a link before?
[21:10:37] <Prodego>	cyth: you wrote it in an interesting way, I'm sure someone will be able to take a look at it... not really a mediawiki expert myself sadly :)
[21:12:18] <cyth>	Prodego, I wrote it per documentation, have several of these that I wrote that works fine, just not this one since upgrade
[21:13:40] <FF|Skyrider>	god
[21:13:43] <FF|Skyrider>	this is so annoying! >_> :(
[21:13:58] <FF|Skyrider>	Getting Warning: UserMailer::require_once(Mail.php) [function.UserMailer-require-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in xxxx.com/includes/UserMailer.php on line 119 <-- I assume no one knows whats going on on why I get this error?
[21:14:05] <FF|Skyrider>	PEAR mail has been installed, including the other package thingy.
[21:15:23] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54048 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.js: EditToolbar: Per ^demon's suggestion, auto-generate specialchar entries from a flat array where possible. This reduces EditToolbar.js from 150 KB to 25 KB.
[21:18:03] <FF|Skyrider>	*sad face* :(
[21:24:08] <cyth>	FF|Skyrider, where's your include_path?
[21:24:17] <cyth>	looks a bit weird to me
[21:24:59] <FF|Skyrider>	That seems to be ".:"
[21:25:11] <cyth>	FF|Skyrider, why you are getting that is clear, it can't find that file
[21:25:24] <FF|Skyrider>	include_path: .:
[21:25:48] <cyth>	FF|Skyrider, and Mail.php is a PEAR class?
[21:25:52] <cyth>	what is Mail.php?
[21:25:52] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54049 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.php: EditToolbar: Bump style version. I should stop forgetting this.
[21:26:00] <cyth>	is it in xxxx.com/includes/??
[21:26:29] <FF|Skyrider>	mail.php is not in includes.
[21:26:36] <cyth>	where is it?
[21:26:45] <RoanKattouw>	cyth, FF|Skyrider: Mail.php is a PEAR file
[21:26:50] <cyth>	ah
[21:26:59] <RoanKattouw>	If PHP can't find it, you've done something wrong in installing that PEAR module
[21:27:01] <cyth>	well you don't have the pear installation in your include_path
[21:27:23] <cyth>	RoanKattouw, ".:" is sans any pear directories!
[21:27:39] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Reordered Cyrillic, thanks for your help. http://prototype.wikimedia.org/s/index.php?title=Test&action=edit
[21:27:53] <RoanKattouw>	cyth: That's probably the problem, yeah
[21:27:57] <cyth>	RoanKattouw, well if he messed that up or not is not relevant unless he has Pear in his include path...
[21:28:31] <RoanKattouw>	Not having PEAR in the include path counts as doing something wrong when installing PEAR in my book :)
[21:29:22] <FF|Skyrider>	*shrugs*
[21:29:24] <FF|Skyrider>	I have no idea what to do.
[21:29:36] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, looks good, sorry i couldn't be of more help
[21:29:53] <RoanKattouw>	No problem, I managed
[21:30:01] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, btw how big is the toolbar, am i imagining it or it took a really long time to load?
[21:30:08] <RoanKattouw>	Yes it takes some time
[21:30:32] <RoanKattouw>	Probably because the special characters structure in memory is pretty big
[21:30:54] <cyth>	FF|Skyrider, fix your include_path
[21:31:00] <RoanKattouw>	Hardcoded it made the JS file grow to 150 KB, now I'm autogenerating it; that brings the JS down to 25 KB but means more client-side work
[21:31:04] <cyth>	or have your sysadmin do it.
[21:31:26] <Prodego>	RoanKattouw: do you know the answer to cyth's question?
[21:31:42] <cyth>	yeah do you RoanKattouw ?
[21:31:55] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Also, it's only the special characters and the help that have slow Loading... things, if your last visited section was another one, it loads fast
[21:32:22] <RoanKattouw>	cyth: Do you mean do I know where Mail.php is? No
[21:32:46] <cyth>	RoanKattouw, no earlier, I'll repeat
[21:32:52] <cyth>	I upgraded to 1.14.0 and now I have a single parser extension that won't parse
[21:33:00] <cyth>	I confirmed it's getting run, magicword and setup is running, but I still have {{#parserfuncname}} unparsed in my wiki page.
[21:33:00] <RoanKattouw>	Oh that
[21:33:07] <RoanKattouw>	Pastebin link again?
[21:33:13] <cyth>	Prodego, http://codepad.org/FFv2xSiP
[21:33:14] <Simetrical>	Why are you maintaining such a large structure in memory, if it's probably not used on 90% of edits?  It couldn't be generated on demand somehow?
[21:33:18] <Prodego>	RoanKattouw: http://codepad.org/FFv2xSiP
[21:33:29] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Probably could be
[21:33:37] <cyth>	yeah sorry for the wrong highlight, I just hit up in my client :p
[21:33:50] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Would complicate the code a lot, I'm afraid
[21:34:21] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, also, is the search broken on purpose or noone got around to fix it? ;)
[21:34:31] <rainman-sr>	i mean of prototypewiki
[21:34:32] <RoanKattouw>	Also, it doesn't cause any slowness as far as I'm aware, except that the special characters thingy is unusable (displays "Loading...") for the first 10 seconds
[21:34:40] <Simetrical>	10 seconds?!
[21:34:40] <rainman-sr>	it's in the main cluster now, right?
[21:34:47] <RoanKattouw>	Nah less
[21:34:48] <RoanKattouw>	More like 3-5
[21:34:52] <RoanKattouw>	I suck at estimations
[21:35:00] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: No, prototype is not in the main cluster
[21:35:02] <Simetrical>	Creating an edit toolbar should not take three seconds.
[21:35:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Page shown as draft after being sighted - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18419  (10JSchulz_4587)
[21:35:04] <Simetrical>	That's insane.
[21:35:08] <RoanKattouw>	It doesn't
[21:35:19] <RoanKattouw>	The toolbar itself is already there
[21:35:45] <rainman-sr>	eh i wanted to fix something 
[21:36:30] <RoanKattouw>	While the special characters tab loads, you can switch to other tabs
[21:36:54] <RoanKattouw>	It takes 3-4 seconds on my 700 MHz box
[21:36:55] <rainman-sr>	how frequently do people actually use those special characters?
[21:37:09] <RoanKattouw>	No idea
[21:37:18] <RoanKattouw>	I was asked to code it; I just work here :D
[21:37:45] <Splarka>	better than having them uncacheable (client side) in the friggen edit page source!
[21:37:51] <Simetrical>	Well, true.
[21:38:02] <Simetrical>	But I'd expect this to be a fraction of a second.
[21:38:06] <Splarka>	and as JS they are at least disableable
[21:38:08] <Simetrical>	How many characters are we talking about?
[21:38:13] <RoanKattouw>	Hundreds
[21:38:18] <RoanKattouw>	200+ for Latin alone
[21:38:21] *RoanKattouw 	counts them
[21:38:35] <Simetrical>	Only hundreds?  How can you get up to 150 KB with hundreds?
[21:38:54] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.js?view=co&content-type=text%2Fplain
[21:38:54] <Simetrical>	You can store almost the whole UTF-8-encoded BMP in 150 KB.
[21:39:09] <Splarka>	is better now
[21:39:51] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.js?revision=54041&content-type=text%2Fplain
[21:39:53] <Simetrical>	That's not too long.
[21:40:04] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw: ^demon's suggestion? heh
[21:40:06] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: By encoding in a sucky way. Down to 25 KB now. And it's 770 chars
[21:40:17] <RoanKattouw>	Splarka: Sorry, was it yours?
[21:40:18] <Simetrical>	Yikes, the old version was horrifying.  :D
[21:40:22] <RoanKattouw>	Exactly
[21:40:31] <Simetrical>	What's actually taking the time in the current version?
[21:40:38] <Splarka>	<Splarka> RoanKattouw: yikes, a lot of redundancy in EditToolbar.js ... even if gzipping makes it small, couldn't you define arrays or ranges of characters that happen to have the same properties, and generate the objects from them, in many cases? <RoanKattouw> Splarka: Yes, we should, I know
[21:40:38] <Simetrical>	Other than just loading the JS.
[21:40:43] <RoanKattouw>	Dunno, will ySlow it tomorrow
[21:40:49] <GreenReaper>	Which gzips to 3.83 which isn't too bad. 
[21:40:55] <Splarka>	sweet
[21:41:14] <Splarka>	mm, though... does it generate character sets on page load?
[21:41:25] <Splarka>	or when you click/activate/mouseover/glance at something?
[21:41:32] <RoanKattouw>	Page load
[21:41:45] <RoanKattouw>	There's a var editToolbarConfiguration = { ... } on the top level that has inline function calls
[21:41:56] <RoanKattouw>	Could be moved to another event, yeah
[21:42:02] <Splarka>	probably could delay that until someone calls for it, since probably the vast majority of edits don't need it
[21:42:09] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah
[21:42:16] <Splarka>	js needs an onglance event for eye trackers
[21:42:17] <Simetrical>	Then have a three-second delay when you click the button?
[21:42:22] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah that sucks
[21:42:24] <Simetrical>	It shouldn't be taking that long to begin with.
[21:42:33] <Splarka>	benchmark it
[21:42:37] <Simetrical>	I'd think you should just optimize the algorithm so it doesn't take a noticeable period of time.
[21:42:41] <Splarka>	but most likely is the dom building
[21:42:44] <RoanKattouw>	I also suspect a lot of the three-second thing is due to my machine being a 700 MHz box
[21:43:22] <Splarka>	"three-second delay when you click the button"
[21:43:25] <Splarka>	don't generate all the maps at once
[21:43:32] <Simetrical>	Plenty of people use cruddy processors these days.  Netbooks and so on.
[21:43:35] <Splarka>	have a dropdown menu, like "latin, cyrillic, elven, klingon"
[21:43:39] <RoanKattouw>	I know
[21:43:40] <Splarka>	that generates just that map on demand
[21:43:59] <Splarka>	or an optional insane "generate all" X_X
[21:44:01] <RoanKattouw>	OTOH, why generate on demand? It runs async, the rest of the toolbar is usable during loading
[21:44:20] <Splarka>	waste of cycles for those who never use it ^_^
[21:44:42] <Splarka>	are you going to have per-site and per-user config for adding/removing/redesigning charsets?
[21:45:04] <Splarka>	(via JS globals or a single global object I guess, or a MW namespace page, ick)
[21:45:06] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, BTW, I could give you a sane ordering for Hebrew, if you need that, but I can't read \uxxxx gibberish.  :)  Is literal UTF-8 in JavaScript not well supported?
[21:45:10] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, in fact that's already possible by modifying the editToolbarConfiguration JS global
[21:45:20] <Splarka>	nice
[21:45:31] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Just gimme the literal UTF-8 in a wiki page somewhere, I'll take care of it. Thanks a lot in advance, man
[21:45:54] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, I don't know the list of characters that are being displayed.  Paste those for me and I'll give you the right order.
[21:46:15] <Simetrical>	I think Unicode order is fine if it's just the letters, though.
[21:46:23] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: http://prototype.wikipedia.org/en-wp/index.php?title=Hebrew&action=edit --> use the toolbar ;)
[21:47:32] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, I don't see a toolbar.
[21:48:14] <RoanKattouw>	http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en-wp/index.php?title=Hebrew&action=edit oops typo in the URL
[21:48:38] <Simetrical>	I don't have an account, so that doesn't work since I can't create articles.  But I don't see a toolbar at http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en-wp/index.php?title=Raul_Seixas&action=edit
[21:48:38] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Try http://prototype.wikimedia.org/s/index.php?title=Hebrew&action=edit instead
[21:48:57] <Simetrical>	Ah.
[21:49:29] <Simetrical>	Hmm, the normal/final form pairs are backwards.
[21:49:38] <OverlordQ>	calling the super/subscript 'baseline' isn't very intuitive, I had to click the buttons to figure out wtf that meant :P
[21:50:45] <RoanKattouw>	OverlordQ: I'll pass that on
[21:51:11] <Simetrical>	I just realized that conveying the correct ordering to you is going to be rather confusing, what with the RTL business.
[21:51:29] <RoanKattouw>	It should wokr
[21:51:33] <EcceNux>	Hi. How come both of the following give the same result?
[21:51:35] <EcceNux>	{{#time:c|2009-07-30T22:00:00+02:00}}
[21:51:36] <EcceNux>	{{#time:c|2009-07-30T22:00:00+00:00}}
[21:51:44] <RoanKattouw>	What's c do?
[21:52:15] <EcceNux>	They both output: 2009-07-30T22:00:00+00:00
[21:52:18] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: If you put it on a wiki page, it should work out fine. I'll get you to look at it afterwards just in case
[21:52:27] <OverlordQ>	EcceNux: that's what c means
[21:52:39] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, each of the following should be exchanged with the character that follows it: U+05DA HEBREW LETTER FINAL KAF, U+05DD HEBREW LETTER FINAL MEM, U+05DF HEBREW LETTER FINAL NUN, U+05E3 HEBREW LETTER FINAL PE, U+05E5 HEBREW LETTER FINAL TSADI.
[21:52:53] <Simetrical>	I.e., the "final" variant should in each case come after the normal one, not before.
[21:52:55] <Simetrical>	At least IMO.
[21:53:05] <Simetrical>	I don't know why the Unicode standard has them in the other order.
[21:53:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enhanced Toolbar - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20001  (10pbeaudette)
[21:53:36] <Simetrical>	(you can tell the final from the regular by the English name assigned to the code point by Unicode)
[21:53:41] <EcceNux>	OverlordQ: Mean what? Don't care about given timezone?
[21:53:58] <OverlordQ>	ISO 8601 formatted date, equivalent to Y-m-dTH:i:s+00:00.
[21:56:06] <CIA-69>	03catrope * r54050 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/ (EditToolbar.js EditToolbar.php): EditToolbar: Switch some Hebrew chars around per Simetrical
[21:56:56] <EcceNux>	OK, so why isn't this different? Also expected?
[21:56:57] <EcceNux>	{{#time:U|2009-07-30T22:00:00+02:00}}
[21:56:59] <EcceNux>	{{#time:U|2009-07-30T22:00:00+00:00}}
[21:57:30] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Swaps done, reload toolbar to verify
[21:58:43] <Splarka>	EcceNux: probably strtotime doesn't support 8601 or 2822
[21:58:54] <EcceNux>	It does in PHP
[21:59:07] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, are you sure the code is live?  I'm seeing no change.
[21:59:26] <Simetrical>	RoanKattouw, BTW, probably you could figure this out by copying the order from appropriate Wikipedia articles.
[21:59:53] <RoanKattouw>	That assumes I can tell Hebrew characters apart :P I suck at that
[21:59:55] <RoanKattouw>	Lemme check
[22:00:15] <Simetrical>	I think Tim said he once copied down some Chinese and was told that it was legible.
[22:00:20] <RoanKattouw>	Try hard refresh?
[22:01:11] <RoanKattouw>	What is it with Australians and learning Chinese?
[22:01:40] <werdna>	We're all taking after Big Kev
[22:01:48] <Simetrical>	HTML sources says href="/s/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/EditToolbar/EditToolbar.css?10".
[22:01:55] <Simetrical>	source
[22:02:21] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: Yeah sorry, svn up'ed core but forgot extensions *facepalm*
[22:02:26] <RoanKattouw>	Try again
[22:02:51] <Simetrical>	That looks to be the right order.
[22:03:00] <RoanKattouw>	Great, thanks
[22:03:11] <Simetrical>	I'm not sure if that's the set of characters I'd choose to display, though.  Where did you get them?
[22:03:29] <Simetrical>	I'm not sure anyone uses the doubled characters (last three).  Certainly not in Hebrew, maybe in Yiddish.
[22:03:34] <RoanKattouw>	I stole them from enwiki or dewiki, don't remember
[22:03:39] <EcceNux>	OverlordQ, Sparkla: so why is PHP interpreting this differently? http://pastebin.4programmers.net/310
[22:03:43] <Simetrical>	Not a big deal, anyway.
[22:04:34] <RoanKattouw>	Simetrical: We're trying to be on the inclusionist side here :) any characters you're missing?
[22:05:51] <Simetrical>	Rotem would probably have better insight into what the typical Hebrew speaker expects.  The major thing is that all the diacritics are missing.
[22:06:04] <cirwin>	U+263A ?
[22:07:08] <roberthl>	Is there a/What is the replacement for Xml::*?
[22:07:10] <RoanKattouw>	Is Rotem also Rotem on IRC?
[22:07:21] <RoanKattouw>	roberthl: Why would you wanna replace that?
[22:07:28] <Simetrical>	I haven't seen him on IRC for ages.
[22:07:38] <roberthl>	RoanKattouw: We use HTML now.
[22:07:53] <Simetrical>	We're still serving well-formed XML for the time being.
[22:08:01] <roberthl>	ok
[22:08:05] <Simetrical>	Xml has been a misnomer for a long time, though.
[22:08:14] <Simetrical>	It has tons of HTML-specific stuff.
[22:08:34] <silly2>	Hello I have an error on my commons wiki - Warning: imagejpeg() [function.imagejpeg]: Unable to open images/thumb/d/de/M1008130271.jpg/120px-M1008130271.jpg' for writing: Permission denied in.. wiki/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 210 
[22:08:38] *cirwin 	wonders why they didn't version HTML5's doctype
[22:08:56] <silly2>	Should I change the Bitmap.php file?
[22:09:00] <RoanKattouw>	silly2: No
[22:09:03] <roberthl>	thanks silly2 
[22:09:04] <roberthl>	er
[22:09:08] <roberthl>	thanks Simetrical 
[22:09:17] <RoanKattouw>	silly2: You should chmod the images directory and all its subdirs to 777
[22:09:32] <silly2>	thanks a lot Ill try that
[22:09:48] <Simetrical>	cirwin, the doctype is only there for backwards compatibility anyway.  They just picked the simplest doctype that will trigger standards mode in all browsers.
[22:09:54] <silly2>	Should I leave it 777 always then?
[22:10:04] <RoanKattouw>	For the images/ directory and its subdirs, yes
[22:10:23] <Simetrical>	Anyway, they can always add version info later if it really turns out to be necessary for some reason.
[22:10:29] <cirwin>	alright
[22:10:35] <Simetrical>	Since new HTML standards are expected to be backward compatible, it shouldn't be.
[22:10:52] <cirwin>	hrm, there should come a point when they ditch their bad decisions - like python are doing now
[22:11:03] <Simetrical>	That's what XHTML tried to do.
[22:11:09] <cirwin>	ineded
[22:11:12] <Simetrical>	You can't, really.  Browser vendors refuse to implement it, because it breaks the web.
[22:11:18] <cirwin>	hopefully HTML5 will be better, but who knows
[22:11:29] <Simetrical>	HTML 5 has vast quantities of back-compat cruft.
[22:11:33] <Simetrical>	It's not expected to go away.
[22:11:50] <cirwin>	support for it shouldn't, but encouragement of it should
[22:11:50] <Simetrical>	However, most of the bad parts are deemed non-conforming.  User agents are required to support them, but authors must not use them.
[22:11:55] <cirwin>	alright :D
[22:11:58] <Simetrical>	Which is the encouragement bit.
[22:12:00] <CIA-69>	03brion * r54051 10/trunk/phase3/includes/HttpFunctions.php: 
[22:12:00] <CIA-69>	Allow passing postdata in Http::post() options...
[22:12:00] <CIA-69>	Note -- CURL allows you to pass an array which it will encode as multipart, but this doesn't seem to work for me.
[22:12:00] <CIA-69>	Until resolved, do URL form encoding yourself with wfArrayToCGI() and pass in a string.
[22:12:02] <CIA-69>	Todo: implement also for non-CURL mode if possible?
[22:12:24] <werdna>	brion: whoa, that didn't already exist?
[22:12:33] <werdna>	What the hell was the point of Http::post() then?
[22:15:30] <brion>	hehe
[22:15:40] <brion>	well you could POST a request as long as you stuck your data on the URL
[22:15:44] <brion>	i'm.... not too sure why ;)
[22:16:56] <atglenn>	:-D
[22:18:32] <werdna>	brion: sounds handy
[22:20:20] <OverlordQ>	hurm
[22:21:19] <silly2>	Thanks a lot that worked. 
[22:21:19] <^demon>	Wow, watching the president & the other guys have beer is boring.
[22:22:52] <Splarka>	POST via URL? how do you combine GET and POST then? like a mw UI edit has a GETTY url with POST data?
[22:23:11] <RoanKattouw>	No observed difference on the PHP side AFAIK
[22:24:05] <silly2>	Is there a simple way to display the category count on the category links - without the extension? It shows counts on the all categories page?
[22:24:19] <CIA-69>	03brion * r54052 10/trunk/phase3/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
[22:24:19] <CIA-69>	* Parser test supports uploading results to remote CodeReview instance
[22:24:19] <CIA-69>	Now I just have to finish the CodeReview extension side of it... ;)
[22:28:01] <OverlordQ>	http://oq.pastebin.com/m2d1efcb5 is this a bug in DateTime? or expected behavior?
[22:30:36] <OverlordQ>	oh wait . . I think that's right anyways
[22:30:39] <cirwin>	I would expect that from your code, but I have no other experience
[22:31:05] <cirwin>	it basicall ydepends on whether it believes the timezone or the time-string
[22:31:37] <CIA-69>	03demon * r54053 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/language/makeMessageDB.php: Never worked anyway, and completely useless with new message cache.
[22:32:34] <OverlordQ>	yes but wouldn't 2009-07-30T22:00:00+02:00 mean it's 2009-07-30T20:00:00 in UTC?
[22:33:23] <cirwin>	oh, I assumed that the timezone parameter was for parsing input
[22:34:36] <OverlordQ>	meh I'll bug ##php
[22:34:55] <cirwin>	whenever I try that I always get !+ugly 
[22:36:33] <OverlordQ>	?
[22:37:48] <CIA-69>	03demon * r54054 10/USERINFO/conrad: eol-style
[22:38:30] <cirwin>	^demon: hrm, I thought I set my config as it said on that page
[22:38:42] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54055 10/trunk/extensions/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
[22:38:42] <CIA-69>	WebChat, freenodeChat, Mibbit:
[22:38:42] <CIA-69>	* Create WebChat extension, a widget-agnostic version of the freenodeChat and Mibbit extensions.
[22:38:42] <CIA-69>	* Mark the freenodeChat and Mibbit extensions as obsolete.
[22:39:05] <^demon>	cirwin: You did. But that only matches .php, .inc, .css, etc files
[22:39:14] <^demon>	You probably didn't put a pattern that mached "cirwin" :)
[22:39:17] <cirwin>	ah :D
[22:39:18] <cirwin>	of cours
[22:39:20] <cirwin>	thanks
[22:39:39] <^demon>	no problem. Everyone (including me) misses the eol-style on their userinfo
[22:39:41] <^demon>	:)
[22:40:02] <silly2>	Hello I chmod'ed the images directory on my commons wiki and now I get a slew of openbasedir errors. Can anyone help please?
[22:41:30] <silly2>	chmod to 777 like someone sugested
[22:41:35] <OverlordQ>	mmmm, nevermind I found why
[22:42:12] <OverlordQ>	if you specify the timezone +xx:xx it'll assume that's the TZ you're working with, and base everything off that
[22:42:47] <silly2>	Some error on wiki/includes/filerepo/LocalFile.php on line 443
[22:43:16] <cirwin>	silly2: pastebin the actual error
[22:44:32] <silly2>	Warning: is_dir() [function.is-dir]: open_basedir restriction in effect. File(/var/www/vhosts/etnopedia.org/subdomains/global/httpdocs/wiki/images//thumb/3/3f/M1009030022_es.jpg/425px-M1009030022_es.jpg) is not within the allowed path(s): (/var/www/vhosts/etnopedia.org/subdomains/de/httpdocs:/tmp) in /var/www/vhosts/etnopedia.org/subdomains/de/httpdocs/wiki/includes/filerepo/LocalFile.php on line 443
[22:44:42] <werdna>	!safemode
[22:44:42] --mwbot--	safe_mode is an ill-concieved, broken-by-design setting in PHP that is supposed to make broken scripts safe. It was deprecated in PHP5 and removed in PHP6. MediaWiki can run with safe_mode enabled, but many of the advanced features will not work or need additional configuration (image thumbnailing using ImageMagick, for example). See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Safe_mode for more information.
[22:44:55] <Simetrical>	werdna, open_basedir is not safe mode.
[22:45:03] <werdna>	o rly
[22:45:03] <Simetrical>	open_basedir will remain in PHP 6 AFAIK.
[22:45:06] <werdna>	i thought it depended on it
[22:45:16] <werdna>	Simetrical: anyway, it means your web host sucks
[22:45:32] <werdna>	erm
[22:45:34] <^demon>	!openbasedir
[22:45:34] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "openbasedir".
[22:45:35] <werdna>	that was aimed at silly2 
[22:45:37] <Splarka>	tabcompletepwn
[22:45:51] <CIA-69>	03demon * r54056 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (16 files in 2 dirs): Move search related includes to includes/search/
[22:45:58] <silly2>	What my web host sucks?
[22:46:07] <Splarka>	silly werdan7 (hubris mimick)
[22:46:08] <silly2>	I cant do much about that right now
[22:46:23] <Splarka>	(and spelling nazi bait)
[22:46:27] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: because it sets open_basedir, but doesn't configure it right
[22:46:37] <^demon>	silly2: It seems like an issue with MW trying to make a /tmp folder where it's not allowed to.
[22:46:42] <Duesentrieb>	when used correctly, open_basedir is actually a sane alternative to safemode.
[22:46:49] <^demon>	Might be an issue with MW itself, assuming too much about path creation.
[22:46:50] <Annemarie>	Heh, !openbasedir pinged me.
[22:47:03] <^demon>	Annemarie: Why would you have that ping you?
[22:47:06] *Rjd0060 	too
[22:47:12] <Annemarie>	!opsneeded
[22:47:12] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "opsneeded".
[22:47:13] <Duesentrieb>	^demon: it seems to me that there was a dir set up for a subdomain, but that dir wasn't added to open_basedir
[22:47:15] <Duesentrieb>	config fail
[22:47:32] <silly2>	Ok does anyone have any suggestions for me
[22:47:41] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: yes: complain to your web host.
[22:47:53] <Duesentrieb>	get them to disable open_basedir, or fix it.
[22:47:56] <silly2>	I have been
[22:48:52] <^demon>	silly2: Could you add /var/www/vhosts/etnopedia.org/subdomains/global/httpdocs/ to your allowed path?
[22:48:54] <silly2>	but the problem wasnt hardly noticable untill 30 min ago when someone here told me to chmod my images directory 777. Now i get 10x the errors
[22:48:58] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: the error happens when you try to access a "shared" picture from the de subdomain?
[22:49:25] <Duesentrieb>	777 should not cause errors. it's insecure, but it shouldn't cause errors.
[22:49:42] <silly2>	I have configured the vhost.conf file on every subdomain. do you mean in localsettings?
[22:49:58] <werdna>	Annemarie: bah, pings me too
[22:50:06] <silly2>	Yes accessing shared pictures from subdomain is right
[22:50:15] *werdna 	was distracted by a pretty girl at the time though
[22:50:15] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: no, you can't change open_basedir from within php. 
[22:50:28] <silly2>	ok
[22:50:33] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: but if you can edit papche config files, you can probably set it there.
[22:50:58] <Duesentrieb>	silly2: http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ei=wiNySq-HD5qLsAbas6D_Cw&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=vhost.conf+open_basedir&spell=1
[22:51:04] <silly2>	 you mean php.ini?
[22:51:10] <Simetrical>	You can change php.ini, yes.
[22:52:10] <Duesentrieb>	*if* you can change that
[22:52:14] <silly2>	Whats funny is only one or two subdomains are in error
[22:52:16] <Duesentrieb>	but no, i meant vhost.conf
[22:52:23] <Duesentrieb>	or httpd.conf is you have access to that
[22:52:28] <Duesentrieb>	this seems relevant: http://forum.parallels.com/showthread.php?t=62750
[22:52:30] <silly2>	I do
[22:53:28] <silly2>	Ok Ill try this and thanks again
[23:03:58] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54057 10/trunk/extensions/MultiBoilerplate/MultiBoilerplate.php: 
[23:03:58] <CIA-69>	MultiBoilerplate:
[23:03:58] <CIA-69>	* Patch by Tangled Kid to allow adding comments to the definition message.
[23:08:38] <Platonides>	Duesentrieb, did you see the patch I did improving namespace hiding on lockdown?
[23:12:06] <CIA-69>	03roberthl * r54058 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/mediawiki-defines.txt: 
[23:12:06] <CIA-69>	Translate:
[23:12:06] <CIA-69>	* Remove Mibbit and freenodeChat and add WebChat.
[23:16:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LogEventsList.php's getQueryInfo() INNER JOIN neglects log_user=0, causing deleteBatch.php's 'Delete page script' entries to be skipped - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17343  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:17:50] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Default value of watchcreations should be true - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17651  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:30:04] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Add sort key to entries in Special:Specialpages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17260  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:30:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Support collation by a certain locale (sorting order of characters) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:41:28] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Sort categories using timestamp field to order entries by addition time - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5561  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:41:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Feature request: Category reverse sort by date - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1289  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:41:38] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Allow sorting articles by date instead of alphabetical sorting (on Polish Wikinews, when available) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14287  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:41:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Feature request: Category reverse sort by date - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1289  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[23:43:18] <cirwin>	looks like we could do with some kind of arbitrary index extension
[23:49:33] <CIA-69>	03conrad * r54059 10/trunk/extensions/Transliterator/Transliterator.i18n.php: Fix typos in messages, a bit of formatting
[23:59:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Cross-domain AJAX request support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19907  (10mrzmanwiki)
[23:59:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Cross-domain AJAX request support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19907   +need-review +patch (10mrzmanwiki)