[00:00:12] Ain't no bug like a stevertigo bug 'cause a stevertigo bug don't fix [00:01:23] 03tparscal * r54905 10/trunk/phase3/skins/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Improved image compression! [00:02:04] oh god a metalist? [00:02:35] <^demon> wheeee [00:02:38] I know - "what next?" [00:02:39] why is dan nessett? [00:02:44] "The Stevertigo block: the 9th week" [00:03:02] wiki.wikimedia.org to discuss wikis. [00:03:07] brion: you should see the drama from its discussion on foundation [00:03:16] 03tparscal * r54906 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (12 files in 5 dirs): Improvements in image compression. Some small CSS tweaks to use less verbose rules. Small IE fixes and performance improvements for the toolbar. [00:03:36] <^demon> Hmm, updating the default query doesn't seem to update the advanced search page :-\ [00:03:42] *^demon stabs Bugzilla a few times [00:03:54] <^demon> AaronSchulz: Why is he what? [00:04:10] *who [00:04:13] 03(mod) Improval of transparency for deleted/suppressed revisions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20206 (10mike.lifeguard) [00:04:22] <^demon> AaronSchulz: He cares about QA, a lot [00:05:06] by raising uninformed issues/recommendations? [00:05:23] brion: I can unsubcribe, right? [00:05:26] <^demon> Some of his ideas are sounce. [00:05:45] checking nabble is good enough [00:07:54] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 (10erdal.ronahi) [00:08:17] 03(NEW) Typeahead search drop-down suggestions for special page parameters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20210 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Search; (brion) [00:08:39] o: [00:11:55] 03demon * r54907 10/trunk/tools/ (11 files in 3 dirs): General code utilities stuff. Move lint and stylize here, as well as t/maint from phase3. [00:12:30] 03demon * r54908 10/trunk/phase3/t/maint/: Delete t/maint from MW. Not tests specific to MW, so I've moved them to tools/code-utils [00:12:37] 03tomasz * r54909 10/trunk/extensions/ContributionTracking/ContributionTracking_body.php: swapping to interal db date format [00:13:27] brion: would there be a way to have https://wikitech.leuksman.com redirect without throwing a cert error? [00:13:54] Emufarmers: sure, we could buy a cert for it [00:14:02] v: [00:14:22] It wouldn't work to redirect it to http first and then redirect to wikitech.wikimedia? [00:14:48] No. [00:14:49] i'm pretty sure you're getting that cert error right at the start [00:14:55] Oh well :( [00:14:57] whatever response is given, you got the error first [00:15:00] Otherwise you'd kind of have a massive security flaw in HTTPS. :) [00:15:15] yes :D [00:15:19] A MITM could just switch down to HTTP and redirect to a similar-looking domain or whatever. [00:15:29] Or just continue without encryption. [00:15:36] What does leuksman mean, by the way? [00:16:49] i built it from indo-european roots [00:16:57] leuk/leuks - light, moon, etc [00:16:59] man - person :) [00:17:27] i was originally going to write a story with an invented language around it [00:17:34] then got bored and did wikipedia stuff instead [00:17:40] :D [00:17:45] So what's the diacritic for? [00:17:49] AND THE REST IS HISTORY [00:17:52] for awesomeness [00:18:27] i dunno whether to keep using the domain or just switch to http://brion.vibber.net :) [00:18:42] you have vibber.net? [00:18:44] that's pretty cool [00:19:04] Huh, vibber.com is already taken? [00:19:08] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.er [00:19:11] Didn't know there were other Vibbers [00:19:31] Never met another Brion either [00:19:47] there's at least Marti Vibber ;) [00:20:11] Eritrea? Never heard of such country [00:20:22] 03(mod) New 'wikilists-l' list for discussion of mailing list issues, blocks, etc. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20209 +comment (10thomas.dalton) [00:20:47] I think Brion is an Irish name or something? [00:21:02] i think it's a celtic variant yes [00:21:08] At least I'd guess that, because there was a character in Magic: the Gathering (who got a card as well) named Brion, and it was in a Celtic sort of setting. :) [00:21:29] however i'm just named for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Haldane_%28fictional%29#Brion :) [00:21:38] i come from a family of nerds [00:21:45] I was about to say [00:21:46] Andrew, yeah that's an original name [00:21:59] Aryeh is at least unusual :P [00:22:08] Aryeh is a fairly common Jewish name. [00:22:11] Probably not so much in Israel [00:22:13] It means lion. [00:22:14] it makes up for the rest of you [00:22:15] *werdna hides [00:22:20] :) [00:22:21] <^demon> Mine isn't unheard of, but at least everybody's not Chad. [00:22:22] brion in MTG? [00:22:31] It's the same root as in "Ariel", "lion of God". [00:22:34] *werdna is named after a Wizardry character. [00:22:36] hah [00:22:51] AaronSchulz, "Brion Stoutheart" or something. Some giant or other in Lorwyn block. [00:22:52] not to be confused with Arial, the font of god [00:23:13] I wonder why Ariel is an androgynous name in English. [00:23:15] Fun fact: as far as I know, I've beaten out professors and winemakers to the front page of google search for 'Andrew Garrett' [00:23:30] My mom says she named me Benjamin because she was definitely not going to have any more kids after me. [00:23:48] In Hebrew it's like Gabriel, Michael, Daniel, Uriel, Ezekiel, Raphael, and, um, like every other name in the universe ending in -el. [00:23:54] Simetrical: blame Disney [00:24:07] *^demon lol's at 00-test.t [00:24:12] *Simetrical isn't sure what werdna's "makes up for the rest of you" means [00:24:15] the lion gets ready to bite someone :-P [00:24:34] in Google top10 I'm only in Wikimedia mailing list archives/// :( [00:24:53] atglenn: were you born Ariel? [00:25:03] nah [00:25:26] It did seem very fortuitously androgynous :D [00:25:33] it would have been nice [00:25:47] but most parents aren't (weren't) really into that [00:25:52] *AaronSchulz isn't sure either [00:25:58] <^demon> top 10 result for "Chad Horohoe" http://www.mail-archive.com/mediawiki-cvs@lists.wikimedia.org/msg02050.html [00:25:58] they are (were) pretty into standard genders [00:26:02] but it makes a great zinger [00:26:31] Horohoe is an interesting name. It sounds Indian or something. (American Indian, I mean.) [00:27:05] *vvv has a pretty common name, surname and an obvious nickname [00:27:25] <^demon> I don't really know the root. My dad's dad was adopted by his step father so the name only came into the family by chance. [00:27:36] Your surname isn't common to me. Maybe it's common in Russia? [00:27:50] I happen to have a fairly common first name and a fairly common last name, but common among totally different groups, which makes me unique. [00:27:51] How is Horohoe pronounced? Whore-oh-hoe? >_> [00:27:55] Simetrical: it's one of the most common in Russia [00:28:01] <^demon> Emufarmers: More or less :P [00:28:22] My grandfather changed his name from Silverman to Gregor because his thesis adviser told him he'd never get a job with a Jewish name. [00:28:23] Simetrical: actually, similar story here. Lees is usually a Scottish name, I think [00:28:27] 03(FIXED) Configure readerfeedback extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20200 +comment (10brion) [00:28:43] <^demon> Emufarmers: "Hoar(is in boar)-a-hoe" is a bit more how I say it. [00:29:01] mine is just a shortened form of some Ukranianish name, I think [00:29:02] <^demon> *as in [00:29:03] Now everyone except Jews says "Sorry, how do you pronounce your first name again?". [00:29:14] And I've had Jews say "Oh, Aryeh Krieger?" [00:29:17] :) [00:29:28] <^demon> We kept my brother's Russian name as his middle name. [00:29:33] <^demon> (we're both adopted) [00:29:45] ^demon: I pronounce whore and hoar the same [00:30:03] <^demon> I suppose so :) [00:30:20] hmm [00:30:22] <^demon> vvv: My brother's middle name is Evgeni [00:30:30] <^demon> (I may be off on the spelling...) [00:30:59] Simetrical: is Aryeh "ar-yeh"? [00:31:13] ^demon: yeah, it's Russian version of Eugene [00:32:01] Emufarmers, AHR-yay is how American Jews usually pronounce it. [00:32:13] I once had a professor call me "Awry" for a whole semester. \o/ [00:32:45] Arrrr [00:32:51] What's the Hebrew pronunciation? [00:32:54] 03brion * r54910 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesCkb_arab.php: Set up CKB as RTL... [00:33:35] <^demon> Ckb_arab. That's a language code? [00:34:17] it is a language code and script [00:34:22] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soran� apparently [00:34:38] <^demon> MW has introduced me to language codes I never knew existed. [00:34:46] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 +comment (10brion) [00:34:57] there are over 7000 approved ISO 639-3 language codes [00:35:24] gee whiz [00:35:26] *^demon grubles about Tower of Babel ruining everything [00:35:30] Bah. I hope we won't have so many Wikipedias [00:35:34] Poor SWMT [00:35:37] <^demon> Haha [00:35:54] I had a heck of a time with the Babel extension, now using cdb to store the database of language codes. [00:36:17] 03brion * r54911 10/branches/wmf-deployment/languages/messages/MessagesCkb_arab.php: Update MessagesCkb_arab.php with localization updates and RTL definition from trunk up through r54910 [00:42:51] vvv remember what we hope to achieve with our projects? [00:43:32] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 (10brion) [00:43:46] GerardM-: to spread as much knowledge as possible, to as many people as possible [00:44:10] and we use language to get our knowledge out [00:44:19] 03dale * r54912 10/trunk/extensions/MetavidWiki/includes/specials/ (3 files): fixed some strict compliance issues [00:44:20] so four more languages is good [00:44:45] *vvv questions of amount of speakers able to access internet [00:46:12] 03(mod) Allow filtering history and contributions lists for revision deletion - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20186 summary; +comment (10brion) [00:47:25] Emufarmers, Hebrew pronunciation among American Jews is as I said, except in more formal settings (Bible readings, prayer, etc.) it might be accented on the second syllable instead of the first. Israelis would pronounce it more like "ahr-YEH", with the R more like a French R than English, and the E sound short(er). [00:47:31] hi, does anyone know the performance implications of wgEnableParserCache vs wgUseFileCache? i'm trying to set up a really quick read only mirror of mediawiki so i'm curious if the latter is faster - it doesn't seem like i need the former [00:47:37] 03(mod) "Move this page" is linked to wrong URI - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20172 +comment (10brion) [00:47:44] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 +comment (10cbrown1023) [00:47:56] csar, they're complementary, you can use both. [00:48:08] The parser cache is probably more important overall. [00:48:09] 03demon * r54913 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/Skin.php): (bug 20203) "Powered by Mediawiki" now has height/width on image tag [00:48:23] Unless you have high traffic by anonymous readers. [00:48:27] Compared to the number of edits. [00:48:28] 03(mod) "Poweredby" image and Wikimedia/license image lack width, height attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20203 +comment (10innocentkiller) [00:48:36] Simetrical: no edits, all anonymous readers [00:48:47] 03(mod) "new section" tab added by __NEWSECTIONLINK__ not shown for non-view actions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20177 (10brion) [00:48:51] Simetrical: so I was right? :D [00:49:11] Then the file cache would potentially be useful, although I think there are some caveats. It's basically a poor man's Squid. If you need serious performance and scalability, use Squid. [00:49:22] so i'm trying to figure out what the parser cache does (since the file cache is obvious) and whether it does something i might need [00:49:29] Emufarmers, maybe? [00:49:42] <^demon> csar: It caches parser output in the database. [00:49:47] csar, pages must be parsed from wikitext to HTML before they can be displayed. This can be a very expensive operation for large pages. [00:49:50] <^demon> (or APC/Memcached/whatever) [00:49:57] It can take twenty seconds or more even on high-quality hardware. [00:50:13] So it's more or less essential if you have any kind of serious performance requirement, unless your pages are very simple. [00:50:53] *Emufarmers isn't sure why we even have $wgEnableParserCache [00:50:55] vvv once content is created, we can priny it [00:51:10] Emufarmers: development, debugging? [00:51:18] 03(mod) Upload by url is broken - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20087 (10dale) [00:51:19] Simetrical: i'm actually planning to prerender all the articles so they are blazing fast so i want them as files - exactly because i've seen those slowdowns (we currently do caching in squid but it's still to slow for articles that haven't been accessed). i'm just trying to understand if the parser cache would be useful for shared elements, or shared templates, etc and thereby make it faster. if it only helps per page then i'd jus [00:51:22] also some of these languages are spoken in countries where there is sufficient Internet [00:51:23] GerardM-: who will fill with content and maintain it anyway? [00:51:36] roberthl: I guess. I'd be curiou whether anybody's actually ever used it for that. :p [00:51:47] 03(mod) "Poweredby" image and Wikimedia/license image lack width, height attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20203 +comment (10brion) [00:52:02] csar, if you're just producing static HTML, then you don't need either option, since they only work when MediaWiki is actually used. :) [00:52:15] Squid is effectively just serving static HTML, except serving it faster than even fast web servers can usually manage. [00:52:17] today, a project is only created when they did work on localisation and at least created several hundred articles [00:52:43] Emufarmers: perhaps, I don't personally use it although I should (spend too much time appending &action=purge). [00:52:51] If it isn't working well enough for you, and something else works better, and your access pattern is overwhelmingly anonymous access to infrequently-changed pages, you're probably using it wrong. [00:52:54] vvv when MediaWiki does not support a language, we do not even consider it elibible [00:52:59] eligible [00:53:03] anyone have any idea about bug 20087 ? the background shell execute of php can't access the session if its in memcache (access internal php sessions fine) [00:53:15] (also db works) [00:53:22] 03(mod) Configure readerfeedback extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20200 (10pbeaudette) [00:53:35] but storing the upload state db seems no fun [00:53:35] so a new project starts with a community [00:53:53] GerardM-: I don't oppose such projects. I just say that lack of community is a problem for such projects [00:53:56] GerardM-: I thought it was the other way around? That MediaWiki won't add support for a language until it has a community [00:54:05] <^demon> mdale: I've been poking it...don't have memcached so I'm limited. [00:54:09] <^demon> I'm not sure offhand. [00:54:44] 03(mod) Upload by url is broken - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20087 (10brion) [00:54:45] Emufarmers we have several Wikipedias that do not function because of a lack of MediaWiki support [00:55:38] from my perspective, MediaWiki is the whole that is needed to support a language [00:55:47] I do not care what part is broken [00:56:16] <^demon> brion: What still needs fixing? I'm missing something here... [00:58:44] ^demon:

[00:59:09] or whatever icon it happens to be [00:59:15] <^demon> Oh that. [00:59:18] Brion, pnb is right to left [00:59:21] that whole chunk is replaced by the custom copyright icon on wikimedia sites [00:59:21] *^demon facepalms [00:59:32] GerardM-: whee :) any others to toss in there? [00:59:44] it is not split up in multiple language files like Sorani [00:59:55] the other two are LTR [01:00:09] Acehnese and Mirandese [01:00:16] csar: how many people edit on the wiki? [01:00:33] AaronSchulz: 0, it's read only [01:00:42] <^demon> Whoo Return of the Jedi is coming on tv. [01:01:22] !e DumpHTML | csar [01:01:22] --mwbot-- csar: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML [01:01:44] the rally did some 1000 messages for Greek alone [01:02:00] csar: so use $wgUseFileCache, set $wgDisableCounters = true, and run maintenance/rebuildFileCache.php [01:03:06] And then wait a few years for it to finish generating >_> [01:03:24] (unless it's only a partial dump) [01:04:02] 03demon * r54914 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Skin.php: Followup r54913...throw these on the copyright icons too [01:04:04] Emufarmers: does it render it the same way that mediawiki would render it? [01:04:38] csar: it should. Search might not work, though. :( [01:04:51] GerardM-: ok fixing up pnb...... [01:04:56] 03brion * r54915 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesPnb.php: and.... pnb also needs to be defined as RTL [01:04:59] csar: http://static.wikipedia.org/new/wikipedia/en/index.html [01:04:59] <^demon> brion: icons fixed [01:05:01] Emufarmers: don't need search :) hm, thanks for pointing this out, very worth investigaging [01:05:09] 03(FIXED) "Poweredby" image and Wikimedia/license image lack width, height attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20203 +comment (10innocentkiller) [01:05:24] Though I don't know what fiddling you have to do to get images to work with it [01:05:58] Maybe none now [01:06:09] ^demon: are they in fact always 88x31? [01:06:26] Emufarmers: DumpHTML is what generates this? And how does it do it - does it have an internal version of mediawiki? (we have some mediawiki customizations that we'd have to apply to this as well to make it look right) [01:06:50] 03brion * r54916 10/branches/wmf-deployment/languages/messages/MessagesPnb.php: Merge r54915 -- RTL spec for pnb [01:07:02] <^demon> brion: All the ones we ship are 88x31. [01:07:29] ^demon: what about the creative commons ones you can select from CC's web configure thingy we shell out to from the MW installer? [01:07:31] AaronSchulz: will that render them for all the articles? [01:07:47] csar: it dumps the HTML, so it should look exactly like a live version. YMMV. [01:08:15] (with any dyanmic content staticified, of course) [01:08:17] but with no search/category pages [01:08:33] <^demon> brion: I don't know...how could we know the dimensions though? [01:08:45] csar: with a mediawiki setup, filecache, and running rebuildfilecache.php, all pages are precached as files [01:09:18] AaronSchulz: great, thanks! [01:09:22] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 (10brion) [01:09:26] category pages/allpages directories are still there [01:09:37] ^demon: could do getimagesize() at install time i guess :) [01:09:48] ^demon: take a quickie peek at the installer... if they are all 88x31 then that saves from trouble :D [01:09:56] GerardM-: ok pnb fixed too :D [01:10:05] Thank you [01:10:42] a question about mobile wikipedia, how difficult is it for another wiki installation to use ? [01:11:47] hmm, rebuildFileCache seems completely broken in trunk after that merge [01:12:10] ok, dumphtml it is then [01:12:27] csar: it fine, as long as you are not using the development branch [01:12:37] which no sane person would do :) [01:12:39] Well, you could just use the file cache/Squid and not bother with rebuildFileCache. The cache will get populated as people visit pages. [01:12:57] <^demon> brion: They're all 88x31 :D [01:13:01] Squid should be the fastest if it's an option [01:13:24] *AaronSchulz wonders if half of /maintenance works anymore [01:13:24] Which means it will be slower the first time somebody visits a page, of course, but if you run rebuildFileCache on a full enwp dump it'll probably take a long time. [01:13:38] <^demon> AaronSchulz: The vast majority of it works kthnx [01:13:47] 03(mod) Run namespaceDupes on mlwiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20046 (10vssun9) [01:14:25] Emufarmers: i know, we've been doing that for about 1.5 years now but in practice the first time is unacceptably slow and it's really hurting user perception (wikipedia is so fast, why are you so slow!) so we're going to parallelize and precache [01:14:56] ^demon: yay! :D then that'll be fine [01:15:21] GerardM-: in theory it should be pretty generalizable, i'm not sure offhand how hard it is to set up right now :) [01:15:35] it does run on a different infrastructure (ruby-based, not LAMP) though [01:16:03] the software was recently internationalised and the localisation is going really well [01:16:06] ok i'm gonna head out while i still can :D [01:16:23] when it is easy to do, we could advertise its use in Africa [01:18:27] guys, thank you so much, this has been incredibly helpful! [01:19:34] csar: anyone suggested php bytecode cache (a.k.a. accelerator)? [01:19:47] saper: i'll defenitely use that too [01:20:18] will try it first but i'm assuming that'll only give me 2-3x and even at 10x the usa article would still take 3-5 seconds which is too long [01:20:51] well, measure first, cut later ;) [01:22:23] You really need to use the parser cache if you have pages of any significant size. [01:23:43] Simetrical: As opposed to the file cache? is there a speedup over it? (e.g. it can cache common elements thereby making the first time it's rendered faster) [01:24:12] csar: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Cache read it, learn it, love it. [01:24:17] The file cache is orthogonal to the parser cache. [01:24:29] I'd recommend the parser cache *always*. The file cache might be considered in addition. [01:24:46] Simetrical: nothing clarifies things like the word "orthogonal" :-) [01:25:23] Emufarmers: i'm a phd dropout (i nearly misspelled that), i can deal ;) [01:25:27] The file cache and Squid are close to useless for logged-in users, in particular, and have more problems with purging than the parser cache. [01:25:37] but i don't have logged in users [01:25:40] nor do i have updates [01:25:52] that's why i'm asking whether the parser cache will help me at all [01:25:57] If you don't have updates, why are you even running MediaWiki? [01:26:09] Just write everything to static HTML and ditch MW. [01:26:16] that's my plan :) [01:26:25] but i have a custom output format so i need to render it once [01:26:44] Well, give dumpHTML a try and see whether it renders it properly [01:26:58] If you're just rendering it once, caching is pointless. [01:27:06] Well, not quite. [01:27:12] Hmm, I guess yeah, pretty much totally. [01:27:24] The parser cache only works on the page level. [01:27:56] It can't cache, e.g., individual templates that are reused, because templates can interact with the surrounding page markup on the wikitext level. Templates are substituted then parsed, not parsed then substituted. [01:31:54] 04(REOPENED) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 +comment (10Wiki.Melancholie) [01:32:30] yeah, if you don't want to run MediaWiki more than once, then you need dumpHTML [01:37:28] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 (10Wiki.Melancholie) [01:39:27] 03aaron * r54917 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/rebuildFileCache.php: Argument cleanup [01:42:11] AaronSchulz: would you mind taking a look at the patches for https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8147 ? Seems like they've been sitting around for a while, but I'm not too confident in my code-sniffing abilities yet. [01:47:23] mebbe, still looking at my todo stuff [01:49:06] one of the dev's might like to look at #20192 since it will most likely need a review before being agreed to [01:57:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkUzfAfwP1A [01:57:52] ahh, good stuff [01:58:27] *AaronSchulz looks up the actor [02:00:42] AaronSchulz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JF03i7NfIU etc. [02:24:10] hmm, "adolf hitler" is removed from google/youtube JS suggest [02:25:29] AaronSchulz: why though, that makes no sense [02:25:59] no sense at all [02:53:53] 03(mod) Suggestions/autocomplete in search box mis-capitalizes first letter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20190 (10dmacks) [03:07:46] 03(NEW) Let mw-plusminus-pos shows in history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20211 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: History/Diffs; (xu.jimmy.wrk) [03:33:25] question: is there an issue with MediaWiki running on php version 5.3? [03:42:46] lhridley: if it says its supported on the site, no, if not yes [03:43:31] The site doesn't address the issue, at least not that I can find. [03:43:45] But, thanks for responding, Prodego. [03:44:00] lets see [03:44:06] what version of mediawiki are you using? [03:44:14] 1.15.1 [03:45:00] I just got a new iMac and I'm setting up my development environment....I'm currently running version 5.2.10 with no problems, but I'm trying to decide whether or not to upgrade to 5.3 at this point. [03:45:27] all you need is 5.0 or later, so there shouldn't be issues [03:45:40] Sicne I'm setting up a new machine, seemed like a good time. [03:46:37] We had some users reporting problems on the MWUsers.com forums back when 5.3 first came out....I didn't know if 1.15.1 addressed the issue with MW running on 5.3 or not...I didn't see anything in the release notes to that effect. [03:46:47] MediaWiki has been run on PHP 5.3 without major problems, as far as I know. [03:47:07] There were some problems, like with the Namespace class conflicting with the namespace keyword (if that wasn't 5.2), but last I heard they were resolved. [03:47:38] It's obviously going to be somewhat less tested, but feel free to report any bugs you run into. We're all going to have to upgrade to 5.3 eventually, barring a Python rewrite. :) [03:48:11] now now Simetrical, no tempting people [03:48:24] Simetrical: thanks! I know I installed 5.3 back when it first came out because of the barrage of folks reporting problems on the forums and I got some weird error messages, but I didn't have time to dig into it. [03:49:00] So, I just uninstalled 5.3 and told everyone who inquired that 5.3 appeared to be breaking the current version of MW [03:49:07] What was the current version? [03:49:10] 1.15 [03:49:16] There might be fixes in trunk that didn't make it into 1.15. [03:49:29] I wondered about that. [03:49:40] Hmm. [03:49:46] I haven't tried trunk yet. [03:49:54] It's undoubtedly safer to stick with 5.2 for now. [03:50:05] I wouldn't be surprised if there was some breakage on 5.3. [03:50:21] I'm pretty sure it won't just completely explode, since I think I'd have heard, but I haven't tried it myself. :) [03:50:22] yeah, I know. But there's some cool things introduced in 5.3 that I want to use on other projects (pouting) [03:50:33] The evils of sysadminnery. [03:50:44] heh. [03:51:13] I may give it a try anyway and see what happens. I'll file a proper bug report this time if there are any problems. [03:51:27] But, I'll try trunk first before I do that. [03:51:32] You could also ask during working hours instead of midnight EDT. :) [03:51:54] brion would probably have a better idea of what the status is with 5.3 support than me. [03:52:06] hehe...well, I've been working on getting this iMac set up since 5:00pm today. [03:52:49] if I get a chance I'll pop in tomorrow when he's in here and see if he knows anything. [03:53:51] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12294 [03:54:01] That one was fixed for 1.13. [03:55:01] I was aware of that one. [03:55:18] I'm wondering of there are some deprecated functions hanging out there somewhere.... [03:55:33] Make sure your extensions are up-to-date too. [03:55:44] If anything tries to call a Namespace method, everything will die. [03:55:51] maybe buried in some obscure class that hasn't been refactored in a while? [03:56:03] Not one that's in the official SVN. [03:56:09] If it's third-party, sure. [03:56:34] At least, I assume Brion grepped for every instance. [03:57:07] I'm not currently running anything that's not in SVN that I haven't written myself, so I know that's not the case. Besides when I tried it out a few months ago on 5.3 it was with a clean install, and even the install script was breaking. [03:57:19] Hmm. [03:57:28] I see some extensions in trunk using old Namespace::, actually. [03:57:43] Well, details would be helpful. :) [03:58:20] Sure...I'll pay more attention this time. I just didn't have time when it was occurring, but I have a little now to look into it. [03:58:54] I only see instances in DiscussionThreading and ImageTagging on trunk. [03:59:02] I'm guessing added after the initial sweep. [03:59:10] *Simetrical has never heard of either of those, TBH [03:59:20] I don't use either of those extensions. [03:59:36] Oh, wait, DiscussionThreading is actually only in old revisions, which are retardedly stored on trunk instead of branches or tags. Bleh. [03:59:44] And actually, the ImageTagging one is commented out. [03:59:54] So looks like zero hits on trunk. [04:00:08] switching gears....who would be the local guru on Mediawiki and memcached? [04:00:28] Maybe you were hitting a problem other than Namespace? Or you didn't upgrade all extensions? [04:00:34] Tim Starling, most likely. [04:00:44] You could just ask, though, I might know. [04:00:48] Except I should be going to bed now. [04:01:13] Don't let me hold you up... :) [04:01:55] I was just curious about what exactly was cached in memcached...I know that system messages are cached, but what else? [04:02:05] About four zillion things, depending on configuration. [04:02:20] Is there any documentation anywhere on this? [04:02:28] docs/memcached.txt or such, IIRC. [04:02:32] Other than the configuration stuff on mediaWiki.org? [04:03:12] I read that already....I saw that you could configure caching for sessions... [04:03:17] memcached.txt has the advantage of being written by Tim Starling instead of some random unknown dude. :) [04:03:32] Does he pop in here any? [04:04:12] If not, I'll send a question to the mailing list. [04:04:12] actually I think brion started it [04:04:30] and I don't update it anymore, I don't think it's very useful [04:04:42] Oh? [04:05:08] !r 37367 [04:05:08] --mwbot-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/37367 [04:05:36] Well, I can't help it if your commit message overstated how much you changed it. [04:06:13] 03(mod) New approved projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20181 (10Wiki.Melancholie) [04:07:19] Well, thanks for the info. I'll report back if there are any problems with 5.3 this time. [04:07:27] Simetrical: good night. [04:07:32] Good night. [04:07:36] quit [04:16:10] Brion didn't know of any problems with 5.3 when I asked him yesterday, and all I've seen have been scattered reports [04:17:01] Of course, someone should probably actually test it and see once and for all [04:17:06] *Emufarmers sleeps [04:17:41] *Aaron|notebook reads http://www3.dbu.edu/mitchell/holocaust_views.htm [04:21:13] Is it intentional that they get more and more outlandish? [04:22:45] "The holocaust did happen, but it was the jewish cabal exterminating christians and atheists" [04:23:44] 19-21 seem like gibberish. [04:42:44] How do i escape * in my wikipage? Like, how do i write a '*' symbol without it being interpreted as a bullet? [04:43:12] * [04:51:04] * should also work [04:51:47] hey guys, I installed mediawiki v 1.15.1 the other day from 1.13 and now when I click on my user page link (i.e. WikiSysop) up the top (once logged in) or the "my talk" link I get a Server error: 404 - File or directory not found. In the past I was able to check my php logs for these errors usually, but it doesn't appear to be outputting anything for this one. Any ideas? [04:52:35] did you run the update script? [04:52:40] Is the URL normal? [04:52:42] is it a custom modded skin? [04:52:58] yeah ran the update script, everything else seems fine [04:53:20] the only modifications i've made to the skin are in main.css of monobook [04:54:18] RichardJ87: IIS perchance? [04:54:22] Annemarie: the url I get for the user page is: http://apintranet.thq.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=User:WikiSysop [04:54:28] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18270 [04:54:41] the url I get for talk page is: http://apintranet.thq.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=User_talk:WikiSysop [04:54:43] starting in 1.14 or 1.15, mediawiki now serves 404 for action=view of redlink pages [04:54:43] both seem normal [04:55:09] and some shitty ISPs and some crappy webserver hosts and software packages, and some bad configurations, usurp the 404 [04:55:32] normally clicking a redlink should give you action=edit (not 404), but the user/usertalk links are exceptions [04:55:38] those should NOT serve 404 IMHO, but they do [04:55:50] *Splarka glares at brion's ghost with an "I told you so" expression [04:55:50] hmm, so no real way to stop it from doing that? [04:55:58] depends, are you hosting? [04:56:02] yeah [04:56:16] I have access to the server machine [04:56:24] IIS? [04:57:08] *Splarka thinks it is silly for mediawiki to serve 404, meh [04:57:45] if so: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18270#c19 [04:58:04] or https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18270#c23 [04:59:57] Splarka: Ta, just have to find my way around the IIS now [05:01:22] *Splarka hides the womenfolk [05:06:00] Splarka: fixed :) [05:10:46] goodgood [05:46:24] http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_color/WorldWarIIConcentrationCamp/PICT0618.html [05:46:35] hrm.....never saw that before [05:47:00] Il Duce no more [05:50:18] what is the extension or option that adds the message "added profanity" to RC ? [05:50:44] eg here : http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Exploration_of_the_Valley_of_the_Amazon_vol.2_by_Lt._Lardner_Gibbon/5&action=history [06:01:01] 03(NEW) Draft authors to be mailed when drafts approved - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20212 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: FlaggedRevs; (anubas) [06:37:08] Wondering if anyone knows of any extensions that allow you to provide a user of the wiki with a form and fill out to create a page. Also wondering if there's a similar extension that could be used to send information in a form via email? [06:38:45] !e InputBox [06:38:45] --mwbot-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InputBox [06:38:53] That sorta covers part 1. [06:40:13] I got a problem, uhm. I made a template for hex-codes (without the # - just der numbers and letters). It works perfectly but if I try bind the hex codes into style="" and put an semicolon to the end it adds an to the end what makes it not be working. If i don't set the semicolon to the end it doesn't add the between the hex-code and the semicolon [06:40:19] Is there a way to make inputbox not only have a box which is the name of the page created, but have a box which will save as the body text of the page [06:40:51] http://allods-wiki.com/wiki/Vorlage:Farbe [06:42:43] RichardJ87: There may be another extension. Though inputbox has preload... [06:45:19] hello [06:45:54] Hi. [06:46:03] if i have a lot of load on my server mediawiki does sometimes give me the files to download, like index.php. but only if i have much load or if the file is quite large. [06:51:11] 03(mod) Patrol marks in non-reviewable pages outside $wgFlaggedRevsPatrolNamespaces - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19241 (10gtisza) [07:05:06] do i have this bug? [07:13:06] Hi. Is it difficult to create simple bots? For example: a bot that will change any "don't" to "do not"... [07:13:37] peleg: look at pywikipediabot [07:13:51] flyingparchment, thanks, I'll google that [07:15:16]