[00:08:44] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) ParserFunction to count number of occurrences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20398 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: ParserFunctions; (king.of.hearts.wiki)
[00:15:04] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) ParserFunction to count number of occurrences - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20398  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[00:41:55] <chuck>	Do you guys have a suggestion for an extension that will embed YouTube?
[00:42:10] <Annemarie>	Check MW.org?
[00:42:16] <Annemarie>	Not sure how secure any of them are.
[00:42:58] <GreenReaper>	We use EmbedVideo.
[00:43:10] <chuck>	GreenReaper: EmbedVideo isn't working anymore on their portuguese wiki
[00:43:25] <GreenReaper>	That's because they upgraded it.
[00:43:27] <GreenReaper>	I bet.
[00:43:29] <chuck>	It's probably language settings or something, but it's using $wgMessageCache->addMessage, which is deprecated I think
[00:43:40] <GreenReaper>	Is it crashing?
[00:44:03] <chuck>	The message isn't showing up properly
[00:44:11] <chuck>	it's doing the placeholder ("<embedvideo-embed-clause>")
[00:44:22] <GreenReaper>	Hmm, that's not good.
[00:45:03] <GreenReaper>	What's the alternative to that?
[00:45:55] <chuck>	making an actual i18n file
[00:46:13] <chuck>	but it's stupid to have that embed html snippet in the messages system in the first place
[00:49:13] <tyrok>	Just ran into my first encounter with the new preprocessor crashing a page.  Viewing pages with the old one works just fine.  Somehow, the system default was set to the new one (I suspect during an upgrade).  How do you set the wiki to always use the old preprocessor?
[00:49:26] <chuck>	I guess I'll fork the extension
[00:57:08] <AryehGregor>	tyrok, it's probably a bad idea to use the old preprocessor.  I don't think it's really maintained anymore in practice.
[00:57:22] <AryehGregor>	What does "crashing a page" mean?
[00:57:42] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: The page is getting truncated, sometimes mid-word.
[00:58:02] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: I'd show you an example if I could.  When I access it using the old preprocessor, it works just fine.
[00:58:23] <AryehGregor>	How long is the page?  Does it use a lot of templates?  Is there an HTML comment about preprocessor limits being hit?
[00:58:37] <AryehGregor>	Is the site publicly available?
[00:59:00] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: No, only accessible through an SSH tunnel, unfortunately.
[00:59:22] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: I have seen a limits message, but it doesn't always show up.
[00:59:44] <AryehGregor>	Could you maybe pastebin the HTML source of an example?
[00:59:46] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: I'm a little new to using MediaWiki, so if it's any help, you can assume I know very little about it.  :)
[00:59:56] <AryehGregor>	TimStarling is the one to ask about this.
[01:00:10] <^demon|away>	(Old preprocessor was removed from svn, I thought)
[01:00:31] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Dunno.  Works just fine using the timtest $_GET parameter.
[01:00:52] <AryehGregor>	The Tim in timtest is TimStarling.  :P
[01:01:11] <tyrok>	^demon|away: Sorry, wrong person.  Last message to AryehGregor was meant for you.
[01:01:20] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Cool.
[01:01:20] <AryehGregor>	^demon|away, yeah, looks like it.
[01:01:37] <AryehGregor>	tyrok, it's probably still in 1.15, just removed for 1.16.  So switching to it isn't a good option.
[01:01:40] <tyrok>	I'm on Fedora 11, using the stock RPM version.
[01:01:49] <AryehGregor>	Oh, packaged versions.
[01:02:13] <AryehGregor>	Those can cause trouble.  I was just arguing with the Fedora package maintainer a while back about how he moved tons of stuff around and broke various things horribly.
[01:02:21] <AryehGregor>	Because he had no idea what he was doing.
[01:02:33] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Ah, well, that has a potential for explaining things.  :)
[01:02:34] <AryehGregor>	I'd suggest you use the tarball from mediawiki.org if possible.
[01:03:00] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: I'll give it a try.  Give me a little bit to see if I can get it working.
[01:03:04] <AryehGregor>	It should be possible to just drop it somewhere in /var/www and run the installer pointed at your current DB.
[01:03:25] <AryehGregor>	Then copy any customizations in LocalSettings.php, any extensions, etc.
[01:03:49] <AryehGregor>	You might want to make a DB backup, though, if Fedora is using an older version.  There's no supported downgrade path.
[01:04:22] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: No extensions, it's a pretty simple install.  FWIW, the F11 stock install still seems to support timtest.
[01:04:32] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Will do.  Thanks for the advice!
[01:04:56] <AryehGregor>	1.16 is still alpha.  Fedora isn't quite bleeding-edge enough to use development versions for stock packages.  :)
[01:08:40] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Downloading the 1.15.1 tarball now...
[01:11:15] <MrZ-man>	Parser_OldPP was removed in r43835 
[01:13:11] <MrZ-man>	that's 1.14 I think
[01:15:15] <tyrok>	Well, then, it's probably a good thing I'm going with the tarball.  F11 reports 1.15.1, and it still supports timtest, so something's fishy.
[01:15:23] <AryehGregor>	Hmm, really?
[01:15:54] <AryehGregor>	1.15 was branched at r48811.
[01:16:44] <AryehGregor>	So seems like it, yeah.
[01:36:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LIKE is completely broken for SQLite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20275  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[01:37:09] <Emufarmers>	It's, like, totally broken.
[01:43:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) A category has been categorised to itself - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20379  (10franklsf95)
[02:13:40] <User__>	2-col-references don't work on Persian wikipedia!!
[02:13:44] <User__>	http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87_%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%86
[02:16:58] <Amir1>	Nobody knows?
[02:19:43] <Amir1>	I changed [[w:fa:common.css]] but don't work yet(I purged my cache)
[02:21:07] <Prodego>	Amir1: I apologize for the lack of an answer
[02:21:11] <Prodego>	on behalf of the channel
[02:22:43] <Amir1>	please see that link.if doesn't work,tell me
[02:23:11] <Prodego>	what link
[02:23:33] <Amir1>	http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D9%87_%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%86
[02:24:09] <Prodego>	oh, I
[02:24:17] <Prodego>	I'm not sure how that works
[02:24:26] <Prodego>	something in common.js and common.css I'm sure
[02:25:09] <Amir1>	I going to check those again
[02:28:46] <Amir1>	.references-2column {
[02:28:48] <Amir1>	    font-size: 90%;
[02:28:49] <Amir1>	    -moz-column-count: 2;
[02:28:51] <Amir1>	    column-count: 2;
[02:28:53] <Amir1>	}
[02:28:54] <Amir1>	I checked but doesn't work
[02:40:00] <Amir1>	what means "/* column-count is from the CSS3 module "CSS Multi-column Layout" */"?
[02:40:31] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Installed the 1.15.1 tarball.  Seems to work properly, but it's still truncating the output.
[02:41:00] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Although more of the pages work, and it is getting further along before it stops.
[02:41:17] <tyrok>	AryehGregor: Any other ideas?
[02:47:12] <tyrok>	Here's a paste of the truncated code for the main page (with a lot of stuff redacted, being an internal development wiki): http://pastebin.com/d1975ad69
[02:56:22] <AryehGregor>	Amir1, it doesn't work in all browsers.  What browser are you using?
[02:57:00] <AryehGregor>	tyrok, oh, that looks like it's something wrong with your web server or PHP.  Maybe things are being mis-buffered?
[02:57:44] <AryehGregor>	tyrok, try looking into PHP settings relating to buffering.
[02:57:51] <AryehGregor>	It's unlikely that that's directly related to the preprocessor.
[02:57:54] <Amir1>	Firefox 2.
[02:58:23] <AryehGregor>	Amir1, I don't recall if that supports column-count.  Try in Firefox 3 or 3.5, Chrome, etc.
[02:58:40] <AryehGregor>	tyrok, I assume the truncation you're referring to is how it ends "Current e", right?
[02:59:25] <Amir1>	OK
[03:00:21] <Amir1>	I check in IE
[03:00:42] <AryehGregor>	It won't work in any version of IE.
[03:00:56] <AryehGregor>	It's a CSS 3 feature, no browsers fully support CSS 3 yet.  CSS 3 isn't even fully specified.
[03:01:20] <AryehGregor>	If you really must have it displaying in columns for all users, you need to do it manually with tables or floats or something.
[03:02:38] <Amir1>	but i can see 2 columan refernces in english wikipedia and my firefox 2.x
[03:02:55] <AryehGregor>	Then probably the rule isn't being applied right somehow.
[03:04:47] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Favicon, apple-touch-icon links matching the defaults should not be sent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19392  +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[03:05:10] <AryehGregor>	Amir1, I think you need the rule to apply to the ul, not the div.
[03:05:32] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) action=markpatrolled cannot be undone - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20399 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (xu.jimmy.wrk)
[03:05:36] <AryehGregor>	Amir1, try replacing ".references-2column" with ".references-column-count-2 ol.references" or something.
[03:06:29] <Amir1>	<ul>?
[03:07:00] <AryehGregor>	It's an ol on that page, not a ul.
[03:07:02] <AryehGregor>	Er.
[03:07:08] <AryehGregor>	So I mean you want it to apply to the ol, of course.
[03:07:14] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Favicon, apple-touch-icon links matching the defaults should not be sent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19392  (10greenreaper)
[03:07:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Favicon, apple-touch-icon links matching the defaults should not be sent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19392  (10greenreaper)
[03:10:44] <Amir1>	AryehGregor:Chenged
[03:12:20] <AryehGregor>	Amir1, you spelled the class name wrong in the rule.  It needs to be the same class as is on the div.
[03:12:42] <AryehGregor>	Hmm.
[03:12:44] <AryehGregor>	Or did you?
[03:12:45] <AryehGregor>	One sec.
[03:13:54] <AryehGregor>	Not sure why it's not working now.
[03:13:59] <AryehGregor>	Use something like Firebug to debug.
[03:14:34] <Amir1>	what's Firebug?
[03:16:14] <AryehGregor>	A Firefox extension for debugging web problems, like CSS.
[03:25:13] <Amir1>	I add on ","
[03:25:24] <Amir1>	I add a ","
[03:47:36] <nainaide>	Help, my mediawiki doesnt work. All the page with the name of UTF-8  cant not access. I just adjust a little with php.ini  while instaling egroupware.
[04:12:23] <kstech>	howdy
[04:12:55] <hotchip>	i'm having a real serious problem with my Common.js
[04:13:52] <hotchip>	most of my functions return errors in my browser's console saying that they're undefined
[04:13:57] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) 2 columan references doesn't work in Persian wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20400 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (ladsgroup)
[04:14:00] <hotchip>	but i have one function in there that works
[04:14:13] <hotchip>	and all the ones that say undefined, i tested in a regular webpage
[04:14:18] <hotchip>	so the syntax is fine
[04:14:25] <hotchip>	what on earth would be causing that
[04:16:07] <hotchip>	hello/
[04:16:07] <hotchip>	?
[04:17:42] <Alphos>	check if the one that works properly has a correct syntax, but manually
[04:18:05] <Alphos>	not just in a regular webpage, but with your own eyes on the code itself
[04:19:09] <hotchip>	um, of course the one that works properly has correct syntax. otherwise it wouldn't work, right?
[04:19:54] <Alphos>	do I really have to answer that question ? :/
[04:19:59] <Splarka>	hotchip: can you pastebin your Common.js and Monobook.js and/or link to the wiki?
[04:20:14] <hotchip>	pastebin?
[04:20:29] <Splarka>	http://dpaste.org/
[04:21:07] <Splarka>	copy and paste lots of text or code (like from your wiki's Common.js) to there, hit 'save' or 'submit', and give us the URL it generates
[04:21:22] <Alphos>	which reminds me i have to setup a mw for a family member's private use, btw... >_>
[04:21:24] <hotchip>	okay sure
[04:21:30] *Alphos 	is lazy, and tired...
[04:23:37] <hotchip>	http://dpaste.org/Ob8b/
[04:23:46] <hotchip>	gotoIns() works
[04:24:07] <hotchip>	contentUpdate() and elmLoop() both return 'function undefined' errors in my browser
[04:25:05] <hotchip>	nevermind the crap code
[04:25:46] <hotchip>	if i can get the f'ing thing to load the functions i'll fix them 
[04:26:11] <Alphos>	var theForm = document.forms[0]
[04:26:16] <Alphos>	semicolon missing ?
[04:26:31] *Alphos 	still noobs at php, but isn't a semicolon necessary here ?
[04:26:34] <hotchip>	doesnt matter, i just pasted that from the web to test it
[04:26:45] <hotchip>	it should give a syntax error not an undefined error
[04:27:00] <hotchip>	and its javascript not php
[04:27:11] <Splarka>	"works" for me, as in it gives errors when looking for elements it can't find, it doesn't give 'function undefined'
[04:27:24] <Splarka>	so, where is the rest of it, where are you calling these functions?
[04:27:29] <Splarka>	user js?
[04:27:37] <Splarka>	javascript: links?
[04:27:53] <hotchip>	tried javascript links, onclick events, onchange events, etc
[04:27:55] <hotchip>	nothign works
[04:28:26] <hotchip>	the weird thing is, gotoIns() works
[04:28:27] <Splarka>	can you link to this wiki?
[04:28:49] <hotchip>	cant make it public right now
[04:29:19] <Splarka>	well, go to a page you know is loading site JS
[04:29:40] <hotchip>	whats user js btw
[04:29:40] <Splarka>	and in your browser paste the pseudo-URL:    javascript:void(contentUpdate());
[04:30:23] <Splarka>	[[User:yourname/monobook.js]] can be loaded as personal JS (if enabled with a config var)
[04:30:25] <Splarka>	brb
[04:33:23] <Splarka>	b
[04:33:32] <Splarka>	see, the thing is, if that is your entire site JS, then there isn't anything wrong in it, syntaxtically
[04:33:56] <Splarka>	so there must be some other bad JS somewhere, or something calling those functions before they're defined (extension, edited js files in /skins maybe?)
[04:33:58] <hotchip>	thats the entire thing
[04:34:42] <hotchip>	but wouldnt they be defined once any extension had done its thing
[04:34:54] <hotchip>	i'm using extensions that add parser functions
[04:35:03] <hotchip>	but once the page loads, they are all rendered into html
[04:35:09] <hotchip>	and the javascript should be loaded
[04:37:37] <hotchip>	oh also
[04:37:43] <hotchip>	that testJs() function worked
[04:37:57] <hotchip>	but yet contentUpdate() is undefined
[04:38:01] <hotchip>	from the same page
[04:38:13] <hotchip>	BIZARRE
[04:38:21] <Splarka>	try moving testJs() to the bottom
[04:39:21] <hotchip>	hmm now its not working
[04:39:35] <hotchip>	not working where it was, at the top
[04:39:43] <hotchip>	but it was working a couple minutes ago
[04:40:08] <Splarka>	no idea then, we'd need to see it to debug more, most likely
[04:41:03] <hotchip>	ever heard of anything like this?"
[04:41:36] <Splarka>	yah, bad syntax in another JS file or inline <script> or inline on-function or href
[04:41:55] <hotchip>	seems so arbitrary
[04:44:15] <hotchip>	almost seems like its a bug
[04:44:23] <hotchip>	theres nothing much else going on with this site
[04:44:32] <hotchip>	pretty clean new-ish install
[04:47:40] <hotchip>	i guess the skins are messing it up?
[04:47:49] <hotchip>	i changed skins and now the one that was working is broken
[04:50:20] <hotchip>	yeah the default skins that come with the mediawiki software are keeping my scripts in Common.js from loading
[04:50:37] <hotchip>	then i loaded a 3rd party skin, and one of them works, but the rest dont
[04:50:40] <hotchip>	W  T  F
[04:50:40] <hotchip>	haha
[04:52:27] <hotchip>	why the default skins would break Common.js is beyond me
[04:52:37] <hotchip>	thats just terrible
[04:53:10] <Splarka>	ehm possibly browser cache
[04:53:14] <Splarka>	try Ctrl-F5 or Ctrl-R
[04:53:29] <Splarka>	see, the URL to the js doesn't change except when you change skins
[04:53:43] <Splarka>	so if you change the JS it isn't automatically re-downloaded
[04:55:22] <hotchip>	i've been doing nothing but shift-reload this whole time
[04:55:32] <Splarka>	dunno then, gremlins
[04:56:29] <chuck>	Can I use a static method of a class as an extension function
[04:58:17] <hotchip>	mediawiki is some funky software
[04:59:26] <hotchip>	funky in the moldy bread that makes you hallucinate kind of way
[04:59:42] <hotchip>	not the george clinton kind of way
[05:03:17] <CIA-70>	03shinjiman * r55589 10/trunk/extensions/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added Google Chrome 3-4 detection.
[05:04:05] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Add "view source" links in subsections of protected documents - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20401 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (erelsgl)
[05:04:41] <Emufarmers>	Silly Chromies: wasting all their development numbers!
[05:51:16] <needhelp1>	anyone up?
[05:54:58] <needhelp1>	so im a little confused.. the usability initiative... and their releases with acai and babaco... are these new features going to be added into core?
[05:55:53] <needhelp1>	if im not mistaken they are now working on babaco... but acai hasnt been added to core yet so.. can anyone clarify 
[05:59:52] <apergos>	they are still in development
[05:59:54] <Raymond_>	needhelp1: not a good time to ask :) most devs are living in USA and are currently at Wikimania, Buenos Aires. Best to ask again around 15 UTC 
[06:00:03] <apergos>	you are seeing versions being released for people to try
[06:00:09] <apergos>	think of them as betas
[06:00:14] <Raymond_>	ok, apergos is alive :)
[06:00:19] <apergos>	yeah, barely
[06:00:23] *apergos 	<-- sick
[06:00:30] <flyingparchment>	i thought you were going to bed
[06:00:33] <apergos>	I was
[06:00:39] <flyingparchment>	you're not very good at it
[06:00:46] <apergos>	I was converting a pdf to a good size for my ereader
[06:00:47] <needhelp1>	apergos so they will take the best of each and incorporate those into core i take it?
[06:00:51] <apergos>	so I can read-sleep in bed
[06:01:10] <apergos>	needhelp1: no, I think they wil take the "final" version and make that real
[06:01:30] <needhelp1>	so each new release to test is the old release with some new stuff added
[06:01:34] <apergos>	consider babaco to be rc2 or something
[06:01:38] <needhelp1>	ahh
[06:01:41] <needhelp1>	that makes more sense now
[06:01:45] <apergos>	ok :-)
[06:01:56] <needhelp1>	any idea if they are going to tackle backend.. admin stuff?
[06:02:11] <needhelp1>	or should i say the lack of 
[06:02:39] <flyingparchment>	hope not, it's the wikimedia usability initiative.. wikimedia already knows how to configure mediawiki ;)
[06:03:13] <apergos>	it's only about the front-end experience for the users, afaik
[06:03:14] <needhelp1>	its not very "user" friendly 
[06:03:20] <apergos>	other projects deal with the back end
[06:03:26] <flyingparchment>	users in this case are people who visit wikipedia
[06:03:42] <apergos>	the admin stuff isn't for a reader or editor
[06:03:52] <apergos>	sorry :-D
[06:04:12] <Splarka>	nuh uh, "users" are people who visit wikipedia and create a user, or at least edit
[06:04:40] <needhelp1>	no no just pondering.. i was reading an article about how.. basically wasted due to lack of backend / admin stuff
[06:04:50] <needhelp1>	*wasted time due to
[06:04:54] <Splarka>	most people who visit just touch a squid and get a bit of digital ink
[06:04:56] <apergos>	in the case of the usability project it is aimed at both readers and editors, I believe
[06:05:02] <apergos>	(hence the search stuff)
[06:05:05] <needhelp1>	alot of effort goes into doing things that could be automated 
[06:06:19] <needhelp1>	a centralized location to install extensions.. or get mediawiki news would be nice as well.. in a admin backend type environment 
[06:09:07] <apergos>	I don't know what you mean about the centralized location to install extensions
[06:09:51] <needhelp1>	ill elaborate
[06:10:21] <needhelp1>	admins .. in the administration area .. can go to this page to search and view current extensions for mediawiki
[06:10:23] <needhelp1>	and install them
[06:10:51] <apergos>	there is the extension distribution extension
[06:11:03] <needhelp1>	come again 
[06:11:06] <apergos>	heh
[06:12:02] <needhelp1>	apergos: did what i said make any sense?
[06:12:09] <apergos>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExtensionDistributor
[06:12:11] <apergos>	here
[06:12:46] <needhelp1>	im sorry let me try one more time
[06:14:01] <needhelp1>	so on your wiki...  you would go to your admin center where you could go to extensions.. and from there you could view current extensions and install them...   or unistall them.. or recieve information of new versions and updates
[06:14:59] <needhelp1>	did that make any sense
[06:15:23] <apergos>	so you want an interface between your local installation and the mw.org site, basically? 
[06:15:45] <needhelp1>	it would be nice
[06:15:45] *apergos 	is about to go crawl into bed, the two pdfs are converted and loaded up
[06:16:13] <Splarka>	needhelp1: that is coming in two steps, sorta
[06:16:20] <needhelp1>	same aspect could be used to distribute updates.. so you could do automatic updates 
[06:16:34] <needhelp1>	Splarka: what do you mean?
[06:16:36] <Splarka>	one step is the extension distributor which allows site administrators to get extensions from a central site
[06:16:43] <Splarka>	that apergos mentioned
[06:16:55] <Splarka>	another part is another extension: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Configure
[06:17:07] <needhelp1>	Splarka: are these going to be added to core?
[06:17:13] <Splarka>	this allows on-site configuration through the web UI, ultimately allowing you to enable/disable extensions
[06:17:15] <needhelp1>	so they wouldnt be extensions anymore
[06:17:27] <Splarka>	no idea
[06:17:33] <Splarka>	not for a few years at a guess
[06:18:32] <needhelp1>	:( .. IMO  mediawiki desperately needs a admin back-end. 
[06:18:50] <needhelp1>	especially with the new goodys being added
[06:19:10] <Splarka>	well, pokle ialex for his progress on Extension:Configure
[06:19:30] <Splarka>	are you morally/technologically opposed to extensions? (some people are)
[06:19:48] <needhelp1>	i am yes
[06:19:50] <Splarka>	some virtually core functionality is held in extensions just because the core developers feel it should be, like parserfunctions
[06:19:56] <needhelp1>	security purposes 
[06:20:04] <Splarka>	so if you wanna use MediaWiki, you really have to use /some/ extensions
[06:20:16] <needhelp1>	for now.. untill they are added to core
[06:20:16] <Splarka>	any that are used on WMF you can trust as much as the core software
[06:20:22] <Splarka>	any on SVN have at least some oversight
[06:20:22] <needhelp1>	at least thats what i tell myself lol
[06:20:25] <Splarka>	any off SVN can be suspect
[06:20:45] <apergos>	sleep. see folks later
[06:20:52] <needhelp1>	by apergos 
[06:20:57] <needhelp1>	hyfb
[06:20:58] *Splarka 	gives apergos some tea and nyquil
[06:21:08] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/   <-- should be fine
[06:21:39] <Splarka>	Extension:Configure is ultimately slated for distribution on WMF, so when it is, you should be able to trust it
[06:21:53] <needhelp1>	Splarka: so in a sense... configure is the beginning of a admin backend so to say
[06:21:55] <Splarka>	not to say it will be secure, but any security problems will get fixed and reported regularly
[06:22:06] <Splarka>	well, more an admin 'middle'
[06:22:11] <Emufarmers>	It's ultimately slated to be in core, effectively
[06:22:24] <Splarka>	Emu: brion and tim love their extensions tho, heh
[06:22:39] <needhelp1>	do ya'll think that mediawiki needs a admin backend?
[06:22:43] <needhelp1>	whats your opinions 
[06:22:47] <Splarka>	heh
[06:22:52] <Splarka>	it depends
[06:22:56] <Emufarmers>	https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/wikimania2009/wiki/Wikimania_Codeathon/Projects
[06:22:59] <Emufarmers>	er
[06:23:03] <Splarka>	private/small/company install: probably not,
[06:23:07] <Splarka>	big farm: yes
[06:23:12] <Emufarmers>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Configuration_database
[06:23:33] <Emufarmers>	Arguably it's the small, private installations that need it more
[06:23:51] <Splarka>	the goal is to give access to WMF's boring configurations, like changing the logo or enabling subpages, to a dozen or so stewards, instead of just one shell user
[06:23:52] <Emufarmers>	since their maintainers tend to be more clueless
[06:23:54] <needhelp1>	wouldnt all installs big or small have great advantages with a admin backend... the simplicity alone would save mass amounts of time 
[06:24:28] <Splarka>	but one could simply allow almost /all/ configuration via the UI, and stick it on a private wiki with only the shell user having access to it, and presto
[06:25:01] <needhelp1>	Splarka: i dont follow that last statement
[06:25:04] <needhelp1>	can you reword 
[06:25:45] <Splarka>	well, lets say on Wikimedia, that Rob is tired of editing $wgLogo for ~800 projects constantly
[06:25:59] <Splarka>	he is one of a half dozen active shell users, but the only one assigned to site requests
[06:26:23] <Emufarmers>	I think Aaron's doing them too now
[06:26:29] <Splarka>	you can't really accidentally bring down the site by changing $wgLogo, so they'll let the relatively clueless stewards change it, but not change anything dangerous
[06:26:48] <Splarka>	though you could DDOS a site by  having $wgLogo on en.wp point to their site, heh
[06:27:04] <Splarka>	but, if you were a shell user, and had access to localsettings anyway... needhelp1...
[06:27:32] <Splarka>	you could just set up the Extension:Configure to allow editing all configuration settings, rather than just safe stuff like wgLogo, in that way it scales to your needs (in theory)
[06:27:59] <needhelp1>	couldnt that be fixed with better user and group management and rules
[06:28:16] <needhelp1>	which could be set up and maintained in the admin backend
[06:28:24] <Splarka>	'fixed' imples broken, what is broken about this description?
[06:28:28] <Splarka>	^implies
[06:28:48] <Splarka>	the admin backend is editing LocalSettings.php
[06:29:21] <needhelp1>	i would argue that ... to new users localsettings.php isnt very "noob" friendly 
[06:29:55] <Emufarmers>	I don't think anybody disagrees at this point; it's just a matter of priorities
[06:30:04] <needhelp1>	by allowing better managment from admins/mods/groups/etc... it would save time and improve on the project as a whole
[06:31:12] <Splarka>	needhelp1: you can't magically invent a backend with group management
[06:31:55] *Splarka 	asks Emufarmers to translate the buzzwords to english pls
[06:32:25] <needhelp1>	Splarka: theres other open source projects that have backends that work very well that we could base our stepping stone off of.. or we could start from scratch. 
[06:32:26] <Emufarmers>	Which?
[06:32:54] <Reedy>	s/off of/from
[06:33:01] <needhelp1>	im not sure i fully understood your last comment Splarka 
[06:33:24] <Splarka>	lets agree to not understand each other, talk to ialex sometime ^_^
[06:33:30] <Emufarmers>	Reedy: omg, ending with a preposition!
[06:33:44] <Reedy>	better than "off of"
[06:34:05] <Reedy>	"Where are you from?"
[06:34:07] *Emufarmers 	throws Reedy off of a tall building.
[06:34:10] <Splarka>	where should he insert a non-preposition word at?
[06:34:14] <Emufarmers>	"Whence do you hail?"
[06:34:21] <Reedy>	precisely
[06:34:31] *Splarka 	goes Canadian Bacon on Reedy
[06:34:31] <Reedy>	it was an improvement
[06:34:37] <Reedy>	not perfection
[06:34:46] <needhelp1>	Splarka: :) agreed.
[06:34:55] <needhelp1>	u from Canada ?
[06:34:57] <Reedy>	I'm cold, tired
[06:35:03] <Reedy>	and need COFFEEEEEE
[06:35:09] <Splarka>	sounds canadian to me
[06:35:20] <needhelp1>	starbucks :)
[06:35:27] <Splarka>	you can ski there 11 months a year, but they get 22 hours of daylight a year, and caffeine is illegal
[06:35:36] <Splarka>	mmm, stereotypes
[06:35:49] <needhelp1>	caffeine is illegal? really ?
[06:35:57] <Splarka>	so they are always cold, tired, and craving coffee
[06:36:02] <Reedy>	no, read his next line
[06:36:14] *Reedy 	isnt canadian, nor is he in canada
[06:36:50] <needhelp1>	wow did anyone watch or listen to the news today
[06:37:11] <needhelp1>	the CDC's projections for the upcoming flue season 
[06:37:33] <Splarka>	I can't believe the news today!
[06:37:41] <Splarka>	Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire.
[06:38:00] <Reedy>	holes?
[06:38:26] <Emufarmers>	It's from a Beetles song
[06:38:32] <Emufarmers>	er, Beatles
[06:38:35] <needhelp1>	are the holes rather small?
[06:38:44] <Splarka>	yes
[06:38:49] <Splarka>	but they had to count them all
[06:38:55] <needhelp1>	now they know
[06:39:28] <needhelp1>	seriously the cdc said they had a plausible projection of 30-80k deaths in the US from the h1n1 flue 
[06:41:06] <needhelp1>	i thought that was pretty interesting
[06:41:20] <Reedy>	its funny, they keep saying in the uk, that number of new infections is decreasing, but the number of deaths increasing
[06:41:33] <Reedy>	well, its not gonna decrease!!
[06:42:55] <needhelp1>	maybe they dont count someone as a new infection if they die before they get to count them
[06:43:05] <Splarka>	needhelp1: you do realize, 40k people die from various flu strains every year in the US
[06:43:14] <needhelp1>	i was just reading that
[06:43:16] *Emufarmers 	sneezes on Splarka.
[06:43:20] <needhelp1>	thats crazy
[06:43:37] <Splarka>	avian flu? except emus can't fly
[06:43:42] <Emufarmers>	Old people are inevitably going to die from something
[06:44:18] <Splarka>	with so many cures for diseases, especially heart disease, the uncurable situations are surfacing more and more, alzheimers and cancer for example
[06:44:48] <Emufarmers>	Eh, isn't heart disease still the top killer?
[06:44:53] <Splarka>	cancer is a mutation, that can be summarized (in one way of looking at it) of certain cells being /too/ healthy
[06:44:55] <needhelp1>	im pretty sure
[06:44:58] *Emufarmers 	defribrilates Splarka.
[06:44:59] <needhelp1>	second to cancer 
[06:44:59] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: only for people over 80, IIRC
[06:45:05] <Splarka>	under 80 is cancer
[06:45:27] <needhelp1>	hiv is up there also
[06:45:34] <Emufarmers>	Not in the US
[06:45:49] <Splarka>	not /yet/
[06:45:49] <needhelp1>	its on the top 10 im sure
[06:45:54] <needhelp1>	maybe even top 5
[06:46:30] <needhelp1>	hum interesting its not
[06:46:45] <needhelp1>	heart disease is first at 631,636
[06:46:56] <needhelp1>	then cancer at 559,888
[06:47:12] <needhelp1>	http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/deaths.htm
[06:48:42] <Splarka>	http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html  breakdown by age
[06:48:57] *Emufarmers 	shakes his cane
[06:48:59] <Splarka>	55-64: cancer beats heart disease
[06:49:06] <needhelp1>	lol, lets check our death stats
[06:49:15] <Splarka>	45-64 even
[06:49:27] <needhelp1>	statically, cancer will kill me.. if im lucky 
[06:49:33] <Splarka>	and almost tied from 35-75
[06:50:14] <Splarka>	I think it was 2006 cancer finally beat it for all under 80
[06:50:48] <needhelp1>	i really wish they would ban tobacco 
[06:50:50] <needhelp1>	no offense 
[06:50:52] <Splarka>	damn you lipitor!
[06:51:27] <needhelp1>	or at least have some sensible federal regulations on it 
[06:52:56] <needhelp1>	anyone smoke tobacco?
[06:52:58] <Splarka>	doesn't work, if they illegalize it it just goes to the black market
[06:53:06] <needhelp1>	thats true
[06:53:12] <Splarka>	they just need to legalize everything and regulate it sensibly
[06:53:18] <needhelp1>	i would agree with that
[06:53:33] <needhelp1>	im sick of having to endure smoking environments when i dont smoke 
[06:53:44] <Splarka>	taking heroin: legal, taking heroin and driving: 5 years in prison, taking heroin and killing a pedestrian: 2nd degree murder
[06:53:58] <Splarka>	smoking: legal, smoking in public: 5 years hard labor
[06:54:07] <Splarka>	etc ^_^
[06:54:16] <needhelp1>	i have asthma and smoke in general makes it very difficult for me to breath 
[06:54:19] <Emufarmers>	What smoking environments do you have to endure?
[06:54:30] <needhelp1>	have you ever noticed when your driving
[06:54:40] <needhelp1>	stoped at a light... stoped in line like at drive through
[06:54:45] <needhelp1>	and the people in front of you are smoking
[06:54:54] <needhelp1>	that circulates into my car
[06:55:00] <Emufarmers>	..roll up your window?
[06:55:03] <needhelp1>	it is up
[06:55:06] <needhelp1>	ac is on
[06:55:54] <needhelp1>	in that situation its not that bad.. but its annoying
[06:56:45] <needhelp1>	i notice alot of adults smoke in their car with their kids
[06:57:06] <needhelp1>	the children have no choice 
[06:58:01] <needhelp1>	second hand smoke is one of the leading causes for SIDS
[06:58:47] <Emufarmers>	SIDS only kills about 2500 people per year in the US, though
[06:59:22] <Emufarmers>	Sharks are the leading cause of shark attacks.  DEATH TO THE SHARKS
[06:59:35] <needhelp1>	infants.. and if it was caused by second hand smoke which the child had no choice over
[06:59:37] <needhelp1>	that to me is wrong
[06:59:48] <Splarka>	look at the death stats from tornadoes + hurricanes vs lightning
[06:59:51] <Splarka>	ban electricity!
[07:00:25] <Splarka>	also: you can prevent just as much injury wearing a bicycle helmut while walking or riding in a car, as you can while riding a bike, try convincing drivers and pedestrians of that
[07:00:38] <Splarka>	or "helmet"
[07:00:43] <Emufarmers>	Most people have no choice in their deaths; children don't choose to be in cars that have accidents either
[07:01:01] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: cite?
[07:01:13] <needhelp1>	an accident is just that .. an accident
[07:01:41] <Emufarmers>	I would think that a seatbelt would prevent most head injuries that a helmet would prevent against
[07:01:45] <needhelp1>	if the parent choses to smoke around there infant .. that should be there responsibility 
[07:01:54] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: Template:Fact not found 
[07:02:07] <Emufarmers>	Someone (or multiple people) is usually at fault in an accident too
[07:03:05] <needhelp1>	which leaves the police to delegate responsibility 
[07:03:27] <needhelp1>	if an infant dies from sids caused by second hand smoke from their parents choices.. that is child abuse.. if not murder 
[07:03:36] <needhelp1>	imo
[07:04:24] <Emufarmers>	You can kill someone in a car accident and have been entirely at fault; that doesn't make it murder
[07:05:34] <needhelp1>	manslaughter?
[07:06:02] <Emufarmers>	Or merely negligence; sometime's that's enough to get you charged, sometimes not
[07:06:13] <needhelp1>	good point though
[07:06:21] <Splarka>	negligent homicide
[07:06:30] <needhelp1>	interesting concept 
[07:06:48] <Splarka>	if it wasn't your fault, it is just (involuntary) manslaughter
[07:07:00] <Splarka>	or some other various terms
[07:07:14] <Splarka>	if you kill a mime it is just like a $10 ticket
[07:07:43] <needhelp1>	only if they can prove the mime wasnt already dead
[07:08:38] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/08/walking-helmet-is-good-helmet.html
[07:09:37] <needhelp1>	lol
[07:10:33] <needhelp1>	so...
[07:10:36] <Emufarmers>	http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12537679 Focus on toughening laws in that sort of area, IMO
[07:10:44] <needhelp1>	whats your opinion on the public option 
[07:10:52] <needhelp1>	im assuming you are from the US
[07:11:02] <Splarka>	"Did you know that head injuries from car accidents outnumber head injuries from cycling by six to one?" (in the US)
[07:11:37] <Emufarmers>	That's a meaningless statistic unless it's adjusted based on the number of people who drive versus those who cycle
[07:11:41] <Splarka>	looking for a citation on that one, but 6 to 1, wide margin
[07:11:56] <needhelp1>	my bike doubles as a car
[07:11:58] <Emufarmers>	(and, of course, some people still don't wear seatbelts)
[07:12:06] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: I didn't claim a percentage, I claimed "you can prevent just as much injury"
[07:12:11] <needhelp1>	those stats seems believable to me though 
[07:13:01] <Splarka>	so at 6:1, even with 80% failure rates in cars, you'd prevent more injuries if all drivers/passengers wore helmets in cars
[07:13:05] <Emufarmers>	But, I mean, you need to know whether it's the people who aren't wearing their seatbelts who are suffering the head injuries; people who don't wear seatbelts aren't going to wear a helmet ^__^
[07:13:14] <needhelp1>	seat belts are a fashion statement.. not a safety feature derrr
[07:13:23] <needhelp1>	:-D
[07:13:26] <Splarka>	and many (most around here) bicyclists don't either, and virtually no pedestrians
[07:13:44] <Splarka>	lack of seat belts is a hefty fine
[07:13:52] <needhelp1>	they could put an end to drunk driving easily as well.. but they dont 
[07:14:22] <Splarka>	I know people who got tickets for starting their car before putting on their seatbelts, while parked
[07:14:26] <Splarka>	cops gotta fill quotas round here
[07:15:00] <Splarka>	one neighbor had a broken collar bone and was holding the seatbelt off her shoulder a few inches, a cop harrased her about that (but didn't ticket)
[07:15:24] <needhelp1>	ive had one ticket for no seat belt 
[07:15:27] <needhelp1>	:(
[07:15:31] <Emufarmers>	If you start your car before you put on your seatbelt, you've probably forgotten to put on your seatbelt, or else you're doing it wrong.
[07:15:52] <Splarka>	you make the fine high enough, and you make the punishments exponentially cumulative, you'll cut down a lot of infractions
[07:16:10] <Emufarmers>	Exponentially cumulative?
[07:16:23] <Splarka>	grammar natzi?
[07:16:34] <Emufarmers>	No, I just don't know what that's supposed to mean :p
[07:16:35] <needhelp1>	ive road in cars.. quite often that dont even have seat belts
[07:16:36] <Splarka>	$1, $11, $111, $1111
[07:16:42] <needhelp1>	been pulled over once in one
[07:16:55] <Splarka>	grandfather clause, if they are old enough
[07:17:08] <needhelp1>	could that be reversed ...
[07:17:17] <needhelp1>	my car has seat belts but im soo old.. im used to not wearing one
[07:17:20] <Splarka>	they'll just illegalize the cars by other means
[07:17:24] <needhelp1>	or dont know what that dohickey is
[07:17:26] <Splarka>	smog levels for example
[07:17:40] <Emufarmers>	By cumulative do you mean that the fine increases each time you get caught?
[07:17:47] <Splarka>	well
[07:18:16] <Splarka>	I mean you cumulatively keep adding severity, like 1 point off license, 1 month suspension  + 1 point, etc, and you exponentially increase the monetary fine
[07:18:53] <needhelp1>	as long as they fix the 500 pot holes thats been their for years... by all means raise the fines 
[07:19:06] <Emufarmers>	I meant whether you meant a harsher penalty based on the number of times you do it, or just a much harsher penalty in general
[07:19:25] <needhelp1>	i like the harsher penatly based on number of offenses 
[07:19:43] <OverlordQ>	just go buy a vehicle that doesn't have seatbelts and was grandfathered in :)
[07:20:32] <needhelp1>	up to capital punishment 
[07:20:42] <needhelp1>	third time and your toast 
[07:21:38] *Splarka 	doesn't even drive, heh
[07:21:58] <needhelp1>	so public option or no public option ?
[07:22:06] <needhelp1>	im for the public option 
[07:24:15] <needhelp1>	OverlordQ: interesting you say that.. local news here was talking about not allowing vehicles after a certain year to be registered any more
[07:24:58] <needhelp1>	same concept of banning vehiclels due to emissions 
[07:27:13] <OverlordQ>	you can't register them, or they'll not let you renew?
[07:27:42] <needhelp1>	register them through the state or have them inspected
[07:27:44] <needhelp1>	we do inspections here
[07:28:12] <OverlordQ>	well I really dont think there'll be any more 'new' old cars that haven't been registered before so I really dont see why that matters
[07:28:18] <OverlordQ>	(excluding people who move that is)
[07:29:21] <needhelp1>	not allowing them to register them means they cant drive them anymore
[07:30:26] <needhelp1>	well.. not legally 
[07:30:34] <needhelp1>	no registration and no inspection 
[07:30:51] <OverlordQ>	that's what I just asked and you said no
[07:31:20] <needhelp1>	i was trying to say they wont let you register or inspect 
[07:31:21] <needhelp1>	sorry
[07:31:24] <needhelp1>	its late 
[07:31:58] <needhelp1>	how did the codeathon go 
[07:32:08] <needhelp1>	i had to work almost all day so i missed the action 
[07:36:20] <Splarka>	> "data" is not the plural of "anecdote"
[07:42:06] <Emufarmers>	http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/26/lawmakers-react-sen-ted-kennedys-death/ Hum.
[07:42:33] <Emufarmers>	They issued statements at 2 AM?
[07:42:40] <Splarka>	"ted's dead, baby"
[08:35:37] <Nuro>	Hey guys! I'm doing the .htaccess mod_rewrite hack to make my URLs cleaner
[08:36:00] <Nuro>	(They were the cgi styled index.php?=blahblah_lfdak)
[08:36:13] <Nuro>	Look good work beautifully, but they're case sensitive
[08:36:23] <Nuro>	Which I don't like that. Is there a way around that?
[08:36:50] <Bryan>	mediawiki titles are case sensitive by default
[08:37:05] <Bryan>	I'm not sure whether that can be turned off
[08:38:32] <Nuro>	OK
[08:38:56] <Nuro>	That's fine then, thanks
[08:45:26] <needhelp1>	need some support. just installed a fresh install and it wont take my admin login 
[08:45:53] <needhelp1>	opened my localsettings and its not in there.. i also cant find it in my DB
[08:46:23] <p858snake>	admin rights aren't stored in the local settings
[08:46:43] <needhelp1>	are they in the DB?
[08:46:49] <p858snake>	!createandpromote | needhelp1
[08:46:49] --mwbot--	needhelp1: To recreate the admin user, run "php maintenance/createAndPromote.php" on the command line.
[08:46:51] <p858snake>	yes they are
[08:47:31] <needhelp1>	p858snake: i set up the main admin from the install script
[08:47:34] <needhelp1>	but its not working
[08:47:52] <p858snake>	it didn't create properly then so you need to use that script
[08:52:06] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) ProofreadPage: add ability to use normal textbox in index pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19926  +comment (10thomasV1)
[08:57:43] <needhelp>	hum...
[09:02:12] <needhelp>	im not sure how to get to a command line through ssh 
[09:02:20] <needhelp>	p858snake: any idea?
[09:15:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) UsabilityInitiative breaks jQuery - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20384  (10liangent)
[09:36:05] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Request for the Collection Extension to be deploy on Malay Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20402 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Collection; (kurniasan)
[09:41:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Request deploying Collection Extension Malay Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20402  summary (10kurniasan)
[09:51:55] <subinv>	We are facing a problem with mediawiki. We have posted it in mwusers. http://mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11659
[09:52:06] <subinv>	please provide an answer... :)
[09:53:37] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) PDF Font rendering for bengali wiki not properly done - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20403 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Documentation; (jayantanth)
[09:57:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Request deploying Collection Extension Malay Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20402  (10p858snake)
[09:57:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Request deploying Collection Extension Malay Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20402  (10p858snake)
[09:59:25] <subinv>	could you please give some pointers to the problem
[09:59:54] <subinv>	We have stopped the usage of mediawiki till the bug is being resolved
[10:00:23] <subinv>	many pages have been 'disfigured' due to this. :(
[10:05:08] <subinv>	hello....
[10:08:17] <Splarka>	subinv: insufficient data
[10:11:03] <Splarka>	http://www.amitty.co.uk/bumpkin/img/Johnny5.jpg "IIIIIIIIIINPUT!"
[10:11:14] <OverlordQ>	without actually seeing your wiki I dunno much to tell you
[10:19:59] <subinv>	Guys does this help? http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5816/wikiproblem.jpg
[10:20:10] <subinv>	it is a real-time image.. from our wiki
[10:21:40] <subinv>	splarka OverlordQ Yes, we used html tags when it was necessary. Could it be due to that?
[10:23:33] <Splarka>	any javascript? are old edits being corrupted? what changes happened around the time the corruption started? really, it is random guesswork unless you make it semi-public and link someone there 
[10:28:23] <subinv>	no javascript was added.. 
[10:31:07] <subinv>	We have added html tags in the articles. Thats what we did.
[10:57:33] <p858snake>	subinv: how did you add html to the articles?
[10:59:01] <subinv>	just added it as we add the wiki markup language. Like we nomally create a static html page but without head and body tags...
[11:01:53] <p858snake>	have you enabled raw html code?
[11:02:40] <subinv>	dont know. how is it done?
[11:06:54] <subinv>	p858snake: where do i change the setting which you are talking about?
[11:11:52] <subinv>	http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5816/wikiproblem.jpg This the screenshot of a page in which we are having the issue. its not just rendering. if you click on the edit button to edit the article, it whole code is looks messed up. Seems like the saving function is creating an issue.
[11:23:35] <subinv>	p858snake: did u mean enabling $wgRawHtml ? trying to use this. will tell you if this worked.. thanks
[11:37:36] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) prefsectiontip for extra fields in user create - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20404 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: User login/settings; (mediawiki)
[12:14:34] <Platonides>	subinv, looks completely broken
[12:14:47] <Platonides>	have you tried flushing all caches?
[12:14:53] <subinv>	yes...
[12:14:55] <Platonides>	opcode cache, memcached...
[12:15:58] <subinv>	is different from the 'purge cache' command? we have done that.
[12:16:31] <Platonides>	do you have some opcode cache, like APC?
[12:16:40] <Platonides>	it could have get corrupted
[12:17:33] <gamla_kossan>	morning people. say I want a box on my main page which says "Latest Changes", and lists say the five latest changes done in the wiki. is there a way to do this?
[12:18:02] <subinv>	dont know... we are using xampp installation for mediawiki. could you tell me how can i check that?
[12:23:12] <Splarka>	gamla_kossan: {{Special:Recentchanges/5}} I think
[12:42:39] <freakolowsky>	como estas pendejos ... que pasa!
[12:42:59] <freakolowsky>	:D
[12:43:24] <freakolowsky>	note the humor, before somone flames because of the P-word
[12:44:47] <freakolowsky>	anyh� ... having problems with a migration from 13.4 to a svn somwhere between 15 and 16 ... "Global default is invalid for field gender" .... any special reason why gender preference has no default value?
[12:45:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Some IIS-based configuration doesn't serve 404 errors from PHP correctly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18270  (10azeeznm)
[12:45:59] <ltrem>	!upload
[12:45:59] --mwbot--	File uploads are disabled per default, set $wgEnableUploads=true to enable it. See <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuring_file_uploads> for configuration details, <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Managing_files> and <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images> for using uploaded images and other files.
[13:01:19] <ltrem>	Is there a reason why it say "The web server can't write in the target folder(public)"... my folder is at 755....?
[13:02:03] <freakolowsky>	make it 777 or make sure server is rurning at same ownership as folder
[13:02:34] <ltrem>	What does that mean? same ownership as folder
[13:03:14] <freakolowsky>	755 means ... simplified ... owner can read&write, group can read, all others can read ... and all can execute
[13:03:27] <freakolowsky>	777 means all can read write and execute
[13:03:58] <ltrem>	but what is the owner represent?
[13:04:10] <ltrem>	I mean.. I'm the admin of the server and the wiki and still...
[13:04:13] <ltrem>	777 works
[13:04:22] <ltrem>	but it suggest 755 on the website so I'm confuse :P
[13:05:02] <freakolowsky>	check yout web server conf whith which user is the server running ... then change ownership of the files (man chown)
[13:05:11] <freakolowsky>	then you can do it with 755
[13:06:49] <zocky>	is there a way to import into another wiki what API returns for prop=revisions ?
[13:11:44] <freakolowsky>	erm ... ^demon ... what's this LocalisationCache ... i'm missing a table and it's not in the schema on the wiki?!
[13:12:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) PDF Font rendering for bengali wiki not properly done - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20403  (10alex.emsenhuber)
[13:14:35] <freakolowsky>	and again my previous question
[13:14:48] <freakolowsky>	anyh� ... having problems with a migration from 13.4 to a svn somwhere between 15 and 16 ... "Global default is invalid for field gender" .... any special reason why gender preference has no default value?
[13:16:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prefsectiontip for extra fields in user create - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20404   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[13:19:20] <subinv>	p858snake, Platonides, OverlordQ: Thanks. Seems that our wiki installation is working properly now.
[13:21:14] <^demon>	freakolowsky: No clue on the gender thing. The l18n cache was added by Tim. You should be able to run the updater to add the table just fine.
[13:30:40] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) ffmpeg thumbnail generation for thusnelda encoded ogg breakage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20405 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: OggHandler; (dale)
[13:34:54] <wikibugs>	03(mod) MIME type detection of "application/x-php" gives false positives on any file with "<?" in it - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16583   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[13:35:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SMW's time data type lacks support for various calendar formats - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20377   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[13:36:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) '\phi' and '\varphi' not necessarily distinguished in Unicode - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1347   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[13:39:41] <danimo>	what is the difference between create and create2 for user account creation?
[13:40:06] <p858snake>	functions? scripts? what?
[13:40:41] <danimo>	there is newuserlog-create-entry and newuserlog-create2-entry
[13:40:45] <danimo>	tr strings
[13:41:09] <danimo>	which seems to be used for different logActions
[13:41:15] <danimo>	-s
[13:41:34] <danimo>	I wondered why there are different code pathes for adding a user
[13:43:18] <danimo>	p858snake: see http://userbase.kde.org/index.php?namespace=2&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
[13:43:31] <danimo>	p858snake: it's a bit bizarre to see two different types of user creation
[13:44:24] *p858snake 	chucks the question over to werdna if hes around
[13:49:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide default time zone selection in installer - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19991   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:04:28] <freakolowsky>	^demon but why isn't the table defined on MW:Database page ... i need to update scripts for oracle
[14:06:50] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55591 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/namespaceDupes.php: Make resolveConflictOn() accept a prefix different from the page name (needed for archive, bug 10171). Add comment about crappy interwiki prefix checking.
[14:07:41] <^demon>	freakolowsky: Because that page gets outdated all the time. See maintenance/archives/patch-l10n_cache.sql for the schema
[14:09:15] <freakolowsky>	will CIO ... and i wtate my request once again ... is there a way to get notified when DB schema changes ... the last tme you suggested i watch Database page on MW which is as you can see a dodgy idea
[14:09:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Provide default time zone selection in installer - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19991  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[14:09:41] <^demon>	I suggested that?
[14:09:52] <^demon>	What a terrible suggestion.
[14:10:38] <freakolowsky>	^demon don't know to whom shall i pin that one ... but it was suggested by one of the seniors here
[14:12:18] <^demon>	:) My best guess is to watch maintenance/archives/ and maintenance/updaters.inc. A schema change involves changing those places :)
[14:12:29] <p858snake>	freakolowsky: why do you need to watch it? both the installer and update script should fix it when there are changes
[14:14:37] <^demon>	p858snake: Not when people don't maintain schemas other than mysql
[14:14:57] <freakolowsky>	p858snake|away: due to the fact that i am supposed to be the guy to fix install scripts for oracle as it evolves ... i need to watch it ... and updater script has never done much for oracle either
[14:14:58] <^demon>	Every time the schema changes it usually breaks the other schemas until someone bothers updating it.
[14:15:28] <freakolowsky>	i try to keep up, but i can't say i'm 100% successful
[14:15:45] <p858snake|away>	there is also a keyword in bugzilla for anything that creates a schema change iirc
[14:15:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Link text shouldn't be duplicated in title attributes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:16:41] <^demon>	That could've been a fun GSOC project. "Make all currently 'supported' databases actually work"
[14:16:52] <freakolowsky>	LOL
[14:17:11] <^demon|away>	Anyway I'm off to class.
[14:17:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Uploading office 2007 files (docx, pptx etc) results in error - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18684   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:17:36] <freakolowsky>	good night then ... :D
[14:18:03] <AryehGregor>	We need to have the schema abstracted.
[14:18:20] <AryehGregor>	In some array-based format that's fed to the right Database class to serialize.
[14:18:46] <freakolowsky>	YES YES YES YES YES while(1=1) repeat_statement; !!!!!
[14:19:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable locale switching with the extension different from $wgContLang->getCode() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19961   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:19:22] <Bryan>	should not be too hard, right?
[14:19:24] <freakolowsky>	an abstracted updater class!!!! say Yay or Nay!!!!! YAY!!!!
[14:19:42] <^demon|away>	new-installer has/will have abstracted install classes.
[14:19:47] <Bryan>	the only thing is that it needs to be well thought out
[14:19:53] <AryehGregor>	^demon|away, meaning the schema?
[14:20:06] <AryehGregor>	Bryan, nah, we can do "incremental development".  :))
[14:20:26] <^demon|away>	AryehGregor: No. I mean the classes to handle each specific database type (for user creation, etc)
[14:20:34] <Bryan>	that's what we usually do 
[14:20:36] <^demon|away>	They still load the txt schema files.
[14:20:49] <AryehGregor>	Why don't you put that in the database classes proper?
[14:20:57] <AryehGregor>	Like DatabaseBase::createUser() or something.
[14:20:59] *^demon|away 	didn't write it :)
[14:21:05] <AryehGregor>	Ah.
[14:21:05] <^demon|away>	Anyway, I'm gone
[14:21:28] <freakolowsky>	you are repeting yourself ... check for endless loops!
[14:21:43] <werdna>	Ah, RMS
[14:22:06] <wikibugs>	03(mod) ApiUpload calls the UploadFromX object's verifyUpload() incorrectly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19931   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:22:17] <Bryan>	what is the proper verb of "to make abstract", to abstractify, to abstract or something else?
[14:22:41] <freakolowsky>	to swinkify!
[14:22:51] <AryehGregor>	"to abstract"
[14:23:00] <freakolowsky>	how lame
[14:23:09] <freakolowsky>	where's the funk in that
[14:23:32] <Bryan>	I totally agree
[14:23:35] <wikibugs>	03(mod) allow wikibits.js to load without any required globals - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19888   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:25:08] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Remove HTMLDiff - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19859   +patch (10alex.emsenhuber)
[14:25:13] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) ApiUpload calls the UploadFromX object's verifyUpload() incorrectly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19931  (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[14:25:44] <wikibugs>	03(mod) ApiUpload calls the UploadFromX object's verifyUpload() incorrectly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19931  (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[14:27:03] <zrh>	re
[14:27:29] <zrh>	Question: On the page for unsuccessful search queries, why is the suggestion to create a new page shown before the message on the unsuccessful search itself?
[14:27:33] *AryehGregor 	edit-conflicts with himself . . .
[14:27:42] <AryehGregor>	zrh, incompetence?  :)
[14:27:47] <zrh>	;)
[14:27:49] <AryehGregor>	Is this on the English Wikipedia or stock MediaWiki?
[14:27:55] <zrh>	MW.
[14:28:13] <AryehGregor>	Hmm, let's see about that.
[14:29:57] <zrh>	Shall I submit a bug report?
[14:30:37] <AryehGregor>	No, I'm looking at it now.
[14:30:49] <zrh>	OK.
[14:31:07] <AryehGregor>	It's kind of ugly either way, to be honest.
[14:31:32] <AryehGregor>	Also, is it just me, or does this output the create link even if the user doesn't have the right to create pages . . . ?
[14:31:36] <freakolowsky>	lol .... let's toss the almighty lesser evil coin
[14:31:41] <zrh>	You're right … from a GUI perspective, the new horizontal bar with 'content pages' etc. isn't helpful either.
[14:31:44] <zrh>	;)
[14:32:06] <AryehGregor>	Well, that allows you to broaden the search.
[14:32:28] <AryehGregor>	Whoa, freaky, a little X appears that mysteriously clears the search box when you click it.
[14:32:31] <AryehGregor>	Nonstandard UI much?
[14:33:15] <zrh>	URL?
[14:33:55] <zrh>	The little 'X' sounds like Safari.
[14:34:07] <zrh>	(or WebKit)
[14:34:28] <AryehGregor>	Oh, really?
[14:34:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Request deploying Collection Extension Malay Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20402  (10kurniasan)
[14:34:34] *AryehGregor 	tests on other input boxes
[14:34:42] <CIA-70>	03simetrical * r55592 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialSearch.php: 
[14:34:42] <CIA-70>	For search, move "create page" below "no results"
[14:34:42] <CIA-70>	This looks slightly less odd, with the user no longer being told to
[14:34:42] <CIA-70>	create the page before they're even told it doesn't exist. But it still
[14:34:42] <CIA-70>	looks pretty odd.
[14:34:48] <AryehGregor>	There you go.
[14:34:54] <AryehGregor>	I'm using Chrome, but I don't see the X on other boxes.
[14:35:42] <zrh>	AryehGregor: You're right, me either (with Safari) … well, it's a browser feature, maybe WIP.
[14:36:04] <AryehGregor>	Yeah, I don't see it on Firefox.
[14:36:07] <AryehGregor>	Odd.
[14:36:15] <AryehGregor>	Maybe triggered by some heuristic?
[14:36:51] <AryehGregor>	Maybe it's because it's type=search on trunk?
[14:36:52] <zrh>	Triggered by round edges? ;)
[14:37:02] <Nikerabbit>	evening
[14:37:19] <zrh>	The search field in the left sidebar is square, the search field on the search page round.
[14:37:21] *AryehGregor 	tries setting type=search on the search box in navigation
[14:43:24] <Nikerabbit>	umhum
[14:43:33] <Nikerabbit>	should we have Language::isValidCode( $code )?
[14:43:44] <Nikerabbit>	looks like that logic is being duplicated right now
[14:44:03] <AryehGregor>	Okay, it definitely seems to be caused by type=search.
[14:44:04] <AryehGregor>	Weird.
[14:44:16] <zrh>	Strange.
[14:44:43] *AryehGregor 	asks in #webkit
[14:44:47] <zrh>	… and interesting … type="search" fields are shown with round edges by WebKit.
[14:44:51] <zrh>	Good to know! :D
[14:45:15] <AryehGregor>	Maybe only Safari.
[14:45:17] <AryehGregor>	I don't see it in Chrome.
[14:45:57] <zrh>	Sorry, no Chrome running here, Mac.
[14:47:16] <AryehGregor>	There's Chrome for Mac.
[14:47:19] <AryehGregor>	I'm using it on Linux.
[14:47:30] <AryehGregor>	Anyway, do most search boxes on Mac have the little X?
[14:47:34] <zrh>	AryehGregor: Chrome hasn't been released for Mac yet …
[14:47:36] <AryehGregor>	Sure it has.
[14:47:40] <AryehGregor>	There's a dev version.
[14:47:45] <zrh>	AryehGregor: Yes …
[14:48:19] <AryehGregor>	Anyway, maybe it's a platform-specific thing?
[14:48:41] <AryehGregor>	Like it was meant to match Macs and Chrome didn't bother changing it for other platforms?
[14:49:26] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: should code fail fast or accommodate to some invalid input?
[14:49:31] <AryehGregor>	Nikerabbit, depends.
[14:49:39] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=6494
[14:49:46] <Nikerabbit>	+if( $inputItem['helptext'] !== false ) {
[14:49:49] <zrh>	In Chrome for Windows, there's this little x as well … the search box is, however, not round.
[14:49:55] <CIA-70>	03freakolowsky * r55593 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/ora/tables.sql: l10n added to oracle tables.sql
[14:50:14] <AryehGregor>	zrh, same for Linux.
[14:50:20] <AryehGregor>	Nikerabbit, I don't get the context.
[14:50:26] <Nikerabbit>	should it be x !== false or strval(x) !== ''
[14:50:32] <brion>	Any more thoughts on https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Configuration_database ?
[14:50:45] <AryehGregor>	Nikerabbit, dunno.
[14:51:10] <Nikerabbit>	:<
[14:51:12] <AryehGregor>	brion, editing config files doesn't require shell access.
[14:51:27] <AryehGregor>	Nikerabbit, don't fail fast unless you're afraid the page will be seriously broken if you don't.
[14:51:48] <brion>	AryehGregor: any remote file editing is a pain in the ass, and tends to be fragile
[14:51:50] <AryehGregor>	The user shouldn't see a fatal error that kills the whole page because some trivial widget thinks it got some bad input.
[14:52:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prefsectiontip for extra fields in user create - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20404  (10niklas.laxstrom)
[14:52:00] <brion>	easy to break your config completely, end up with something half-written, etc
[14:52:12] <brion>	maybe you have an editor which understands utf-8 correctly, maybe you don't
[14:52:22] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: then it should perhaps be the latter... if some code accidentally passes null or '' for that parameter
[14:52:36] <brion>	maybe your editor has integrated ftp/sftp/scp, maybe it doesn't
[14:53:04] <Nikerabbit>	brion: I have no problems using kate with sftp every day :o
[14:53:06] <AryehGregor>	Okay, who was the person who decided to paginate Special:Allmessages and then not allow us to search it for arbitrary substrings?
[14:53:07] *AryehGregor 	stabs
[14:53:19] <brion>	heh
[14:53:32] <brion>	it's a smallish data set, substring search shouldn't be too bad on it
[14:53:33] <ialex>	brion: and what about my section "Bugs that could be solved / New features" ? :)
[14:53:34] <brion>	give it a shot
[14:53:41] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: why doesn't default search work for that case:o
[14:53:47] *brion 	looks
[14:53:51] <AryehGregor>	Nikerabbit, well, for one thing, most of the pages don't exist.
[14:55:22] <AryehGregor>	Grah, message not updating when I edit the MediaWiki page?
[14:55:23] *AryehGregor 	stabs
[14:57:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prefsectiontip for extra fields in user create - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20404  (10mediawiki)
[14:57:36] <brion>	Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /Library/WebServer/Documents/trunk/maintenance/namespaceDupes.php on line 96
[14:58:17] <pengi>	haha :P interesting that my email "mediawiki@pengi.se" is shorted to "mediawiki"... looks like I'm an official or something :P
[14:59:06] <ialex>	pengi: yes, wikibugs remove @... when reporting bug changes
[14:59:09] <ialex>	+s
[14:59:26] <pengi>	:P
[15:00:14] <CIA-70>	03simetrical * r55594 10/trunk/phase3/ (includes/Html.php skins/MonoBook.php): 
[15:00:14] <CIA-70>	Use type=search for Monobook sidebar
[15:00:14] <CIA-70>	Didn't bother to do this for other skins at the moment. This should
[15:00:14] <CIA-70>	allow more native-looking styling on some platforms (e.g., Safari on
[15:00:14] <CIA-70>	Mac).
[15:00:23] <pengi>	a lot of blog-services do the same for openid. I use openid.pengi.se for openid-auth, so the call me "openid" :P
[15:03:35] <CIA-70>	03brion * r55595 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/namespaceDupes.php: Fix for error accessing uninitialized namespace aliases array... use the accessor, which lazy-initializes :)
[15:05:48] <AryehGregor>	I hate tables.
[15:05:53] <ialex>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6261 marking as fixed with $wgOut->addWikiMsg() et al. ?
[15:05:55] <AryehGregor>	Why can't we have some better way of formatting forms?
[15:06:06] *AryehGregor 	stab stab stab
[15:06:22] <brion_>	you can use css to make table-like-layout without <table>, but it doesn't work in ie ;)
[15:06:23] <zrh>	AryehGregor: I'm about to leave … what's the status of the search result pages and the message order?
[15:06:48] <AryehGregor>	zrh, I changed it in r55592.
[15:06:52] <zrh>	Thanks!
[15:07:04] <zrh>	Bye all, have a nice day! :D
[15:09:48] <Nikerabbit>	ialex: what?
[15:10:20] <ialex>	asking if the bug can be marked as fixed
[15:12:00] <Nikerabbit>	ialex: yet another meta-bug without any concrete plans how to fix? be my guest
[15:12:15] <Nikerabbit>	individual messages can be fixed case by case basis
[15:12:44] <Nikerabbit>	if there needs to be an audit, maybe a clear bug marked as LATER
[15:13:05] <CIA-70>	03simetrical * r55596 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Article.php: 
[15:13:05] <CIA-70>	Restore size=60 that got eaten by r55453
[15:13:05] <CIA-70>	We should really be using CSS for this to get nice fluid widths, but
[15:13:05] <CIA-70>	it's a real pain to do with tables' weird magical width algorithms.
[15:14:43] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) clip does not play with native engine and with Java engine - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19124  +comment (10dale)
[15:15:18] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: yeah.. try to make an textarea to fit into fit of the parent form... no hope
[15:15:33] <Nikerabbit>	s/fit of/width of/
[15:15:35] <AryehGregor>	Inline-block is a lousy solution too.
[15:15:43] <AryehGregor>	There's no good way to make sure all the labels are the same width.
[15:16:14] <AryehGregor>	Tables are the only way that works at all, unless you want to try crazy stuff like putting the labels in a left-floated div and hoping nothing in your right column line-wraps.
[15:16:45] <Nikerabbit>	absolute positioning and widths!
[15:25:34] <vvv>	AryehGregor: does wellformedness control work now?
[15:25:40] <AryehGregor>	vvv, what?
[15:25:54] <AryehGregor>	$wgWellFormedXml = true; should theoretically maintain well-formed XML, barring bugs.
[15:25:56] <vvv>	AryehGregor: does $wgWellFormedXml really work?
[15:25:58] <AryehGregor>	(it's the default)
[15:26:03] <AryehGregor>	It should work.
[15:26:12] <AryehGregor>	If it doesn't, that's a bug that should be easy to fix.
[15:26:22] <vvv>	I mean, does setting it to false strips most of useless stuff like <head> tag
[15:26:29] <CIA-70>	03mkroetzsch * r55597 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_DataValueFactory.php: properly create values for inverse properties
[15:27:37] <CIA-70>	03mkroetzsch * r55598 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/specials/SearchTriple/SMW_SpecialSearchByProperty.php: fix result formatting to work with inverse properties
[15:27:38] <AryehGregor>	<head> isn't relevant to well-formedness.
[15:27:54] <AryehGregor>	If that's stripped, it will be based on $wgHtml5, not $wgWellFormedXml.
[15:28:14] <AryehGregor>	Disabling $wgWellFormedXml will remove things like quote marks on attributes, trailing / on empty elements, etc.
[15:28:28] <vvv>	What about <html> tag?
[15:28:45] <AryehGregor>	That has attributes on it, so it can't be dropped.
[15:28:52] <AryehGregor>	The closing tag could be dropped, but I don't think it is at the moment.
[15:35:32] <brion>	nom nom nom
[15:40:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Create Author, Portal, Page and Index namespaces for vi.wikisource - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20334  (10vinhtantran)
[15:42:23] <CIA-70>	03mkroetzsch * r55599 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_DV_Property.php: make sure properties are unstubbed before overwriting inverse-information
[15:44:47] <CIA-70>	03mkroetzsch * r55600 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/articlepages/SMW_PropertyPage.php: avoid property page listings for inverses (creating such pages is not suggested/useful, so just avoid errors)
[15:48:19] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Localized magic words don't ignore case if containing nonASCII characters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8143  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[15:50:52] <brion>	heh... yeah without that size=60 the input is really short ;)
[15:55:27] <Nikerabbit>	brion: huh? no parser tests required?
[15:55:36] <brion>	?
[15:55:41] <Nikerabbit>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/55601
[15:55:48] <brion>	my internet is very not-happy atm :(
[15:55:55] <Nikerabbit>	magic words
[15:57:02] <brion>	what about them? can't see it right now
[15:57:32] <CIA-70>	03mkroetzsch * r55602 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/ (includes/SMW_ParseData.php languages/SMW_Messages.php): reject annotations that use inverse properties (nd return a suitable error message)
[15:57:45] <Nikerabbit>	* (bug 8143) Localised parser function names are now correctly case insensitive if they contain non-ASCII characters
[15:57:54] <Nikerabbit>	    * 15:48, 26 August 2009 Brion VIBBER (Talk | contribs | block) changed the status of r55601 [removed: new added: ok]
[15:57:57] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[16:00:01] <brion>	Nikerabbit: it passed the parser test suite
[16:00:15] <brion>	wouldn't hurt to add some test cases for good measure using osme lang that it applies to though :)
[16:00:53] <Nikerabbit>	that's what I meaned :o
[16:01:19] <brion>	hrm ok i've got ping and https but no http :)
[16:01:41] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) NS aliases for Russian Wikinews - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20406 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (i.am.putnik)
[16:02:00] <brion>	ok i'm back :D
[16:03:28] <brion>	marked it todo
[16:03:49] <wikibugs>	03(mod) NS aliases for Russian Wikinews - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20406   +shell (10alex.emsenhuber)
[16:04:35] <Nikerabbit>	aww
[16:05:07] <Nikerabbit>	someone must have had fun copying all language templates to wikimania2009 wiki when better solution exists :o
[16:05:47] <Betacommand>	Nikerabbit: thats why we have bots :)
[16:06:19] <Nikerabbit>	Betacommand: and waste space and time? :o
[16:06:40] <Nikerabbit>	not to speak template namespace pollution :o
[16:06:41] <Betacommand>	Nikerabbit: not all of us are mw developers
[16:07:03] <Nikerabbit>	Betacommand: so? the solution *exists*
[16:07:11] <Betacommand>	Nikerabbit: we adapt and fill in where the software fails
[16:07:23] <akozak>	Nikerabbit: out of curiosity, what solution are you referring to
[16:07:24] <Nikerabbit>	hi danimo_ 
[16:07:49] <Nikerabbit>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Babel
[16:07:56] <Nikerabbit>	Betacommand: it is not the software which fails
[16:14:55] <Nikerabbit>	hi Duesentrieb 
[16:15:03] <Duesentrieb>	hi Nikerabbit
[16:15:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable sources for Special:Import on en.wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20280  +comment (10grahamwp)
[16:19:01] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Update commons image count - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17802  +comment (10fvassard)
[16:26:41] <ialex>	seems that it's not possible to use localised parser function names in parser tests even with the correct language=xx option :(
[16:27:11] <Nikerabbit>	ialex: does it set interface language?
[16:27:55] <ialex>	Nikerabbit: $GLOBALS['wgContLang'] = $langObj; so yes...
[16:28:05] <Nikerabbit>	ör
[16:28:15] <Nikerabbit>	can't you override the language code like other variables?
[16:33:58] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Special:RevisionDelete links to page history even when doing log suppression - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20380  +comment (10mike.lifeguard)
[16:34:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Localization corrections and additions of Estonian Wikimedia projects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20332  (10meepurk)
[16:42:08] <Emufarmers>	Nikerabbit: why isn't Babel enabled?
[16:43:15] <Nikerabbit>	Emufarmers: because it is not reviewed by wmf or not propoced to them?
[16:43:36] <Emufarmers>	http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Babel_extension Looks like a proposal o:
[16:44:56] <AryehGregor>	It received fairly negative reviews, I think.
[16:45:31] <Emufarmers>	From users, or from developers?  The vote on that page seems very supportive
[16:45:49] <Nikerabbit>	brion was against it at one point
[16:46:11] <Nikerabbit>	"mess of templates should be enough for everyone"
[16:46:44] <brion_>	:)
[16:46:48] <Nikerabbit>	but here we have working (mostly) solution for a problem, while the opposition on that page wants it to be perfect replacement
[16:47:51] <Nikerabbit>	brion_: is that still your opinion?
[16:47:58] <Emufarmers>	Well, if there are problems with it, they should be articulated on the page; doesn't seem fair to just leave it in limbo
[16:48:20] <brion_>	in ideal circumstances yes ;) in practice since it's got like 6 billion options it seems a big ugly to do via templates, especially if we want it cross-wiki
[16:48:45] <brion_>	it's on the list of things gerard is constantly bugging me about, so we should get it sorted out soonish :D
[16:49:16] *Emufarmers 	sharpens Gerard's poking stick
[16:49:19] <atglenn>	:-D
[16:49:21] <Nikerabbit>	:D
[16:49:32] *atglenn 	hands brion a long poking stick with extra sharpness
[16:49:33] <Nikerabbit>	I guess he is poking you a lot
[16:50:09] *Nikerabbit 	hands level 2 wooden shield with toy bear carving to atglenn
[16:50:40] <brion_>	yay sticky stick
[16:51:10] <atglenn>	can you hand me some cold medication that works? I would like some
[16:51:19] <brion_>	aww :(
[16:51:32] <Nikerabbit>	atglenn: buy some expensive candy... it helps
[16:51:38] <brion_>	all i know is if i take enough nyquil i'll sleep like a baby
[16:51:47] <brion_>	not sure it helps with the cold per se
[16:51:51] <atglenn>	(which reminds me, time to try some "Walgreens cold/flu relief", blech)
[16:52:17] <atglenn>	I won't taste the expensive candy though... it will just sit there mocking me til I'm well a week later
[16:52:42] <Emufarmers>	I thought that was the point
[16:52:47] <atglenn>	so brion the email you sent around with the weird data in some revision and the note "corrupted data in ext store?"  was another one of those
[16:52:52] <atglenn>	revisions with no gzip flag. 
[16:53:23] <MrZ-man>	brion_: for https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20291#c2 - where should that be done? in the WikimediaMessages extension? core?
[16:53:24] <brion_>	aho
[16:53:26] <atglenn>	I'm looking at it a little more since I've got pointers to a few cases of that, see if it's all old revisions, etc. 
[16:53:29] <brion_>	curious :)
[16:53:55] <brion_>	MrZ-man: i'd prolly just stick the alias in core yeah
[16:54:01] <Nikerabbit>	:o
[16:54:03] <brion_>	one line in MessagesEn.php :)
[16:54:04] <atglenn>	at worst I'll write a little tool to examine revision text, show flags, and poke a gzip flag (unless there is already one)
[16:54:06] <Nikerabbit>	I'd put it into wikimediamessages
[16:54:12] <brion_>	eh could do
[16:54:15] <atglenn>	(one such tool)
[16:54:30] <brion_>	i'll defer to Nikerabbit on such l10n issues :D
[16:54:39] <brion_>	whee
[16:54:45] <MrZ-man>	so then the answer is "meh, whichever"
[16:55:03] <brion_>	:D
[16:55:37] <Nikerabbit>	well, probably only wmf cares about it, but nobody cares(minds) if it is in core... so
[16:55:48] <Emufarmers>	Hmm, why is only the main namespace auto-selected for search on the strategy wiki? :(
[16:58:07] <CIA-70>	03ialex * r55603 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added parser test for r55601, has to clear MagicWord's object caching so that parser function aliases are also available when using a different language that English
[16:59:22] <ialex>	uh oh
[17:01:13] <ialex>	560 succeeded tests, 1 failed tests:
[17:01:13] <ialex>	* Free external link invading image caption
[17:01:20] <Nikerabbit>	hmm
[17:01:23] <Nikerabbit>	the change?
[17:01:39] <Nikerabbit>	hi TrevorParscal 
[17:01:40] <ialex>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/55603
[17:01:51] <TrevorParscal>	Nikerabbit: hi there!
[17:01:55] <ialex>	cannot reproduce locally :(
[17:02:57] <brion>	hm, how's it failing ialex ?
[17:03:22] <ialex>	brion: absolute no idea
[17:03:31] <brion>	heh
[17:03:35] <ialex>	brion: CodeReview says it's failing
[17:03:38] <ialex>	but works locally
[17:03:41] <brion>	lemme take a quick look. rob's tech talk starts in 10 mins, got a few before then :)
[17:04:18] <brion>	Running test Case insensitivity of parser functions for non-ASCII characters (bug 8143)... Warning: unserialize(): defined (__autoload) but not found in /Library/WebServer/Documents/trunk/includes/LocalisationCache.php on line 841
[17:04:18] <brion>	Warning: unserialize(): defined (__autoload) but not found in /Library/WebServer/Documents/trunk/includes/LocalisationCache.php on line 841
[17:04:23] <brion>	well something ain't right there
[17:04:53] <ialex>	yeah, I also get this sometimes
[17:04:55] <brion>	that's coming up in multiple places
[17:05:13] <brion>	many times ... :(
[17:05:21] *ialex 	should really fix this one day :)
[17:05:37] <CIA-70>	03btongminh * r55604 10/trunk/phase3/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 
[17:05:37] <CIA-70>	* Code style & commenting on upload functions.
[17:05:37] <CIA-70>	* Move isValidURI from UploadFromUrl to HttpFunctions.
[17:05:37] <CIA-70>	* Made some functions in UploadBase static.
[17:07:11] <brion>	Running test Free external link invading image caption... Warning: passthru(): Unable to fork ['/home/parsertests/phase3/bin/ulimit4.sh' 180 102400 102400 ''\''/usr/bin/convert'\'' -quality 80 -background white -size 180 '\''/tmp/mwParser-1415888816-images/3/3a/Foobar.jpg'\'' -thumbnail '\''180x20!'\'' -depth 8 -sharpen '\''0x0.4'\'' '\''/tmp/mwParser-1415888816-images/thumb/3/3a/Foobar.jpg/180px-Foobar.jpg'\'' 2>&1'] in 
[17:07:16] <brion>	/home/parsertests/phase3/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 2338
[17:07:18] <brion>	FAILED!
[17:07:20] <brion>	Warning: shell_exec(): Unable to execute 'diff -au /tmp/mwParser-1367565611-expected /tmp/mwParser-1367565611-actual' in /home/parsertests/phase3/maintenance/parserTests.inc on line 1038
[17:07:25] <brion>	unable to fork? wow :D
[17:07:30] <atglenn>	oooohhh
[17:07:50] <Nikerabbit>	wot
[17:07:53] <^demon>	Hmmm, there doesn't seem to be a way to select all entries in a CDB file :-\
[17:07:55] <atglenn>	so are we gonna get live streaming of rob's talk??
[17:08:01] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: no there isn't
[17:08:10] <atglenn>	I'm at the live streaming page right now and it's playing... *nothing* :-(
[17:08:23] <brion>	if my wifi holds i'll have it rerun the test cases
[17:08:56] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: So there's no possible way to load all records from a CDB file (ie: no way to list all interwikis if you're using the interwiki cache)?
[17:09:02] <CIA-70>	03btongminh * r55605 10/trunk/phase3/includes/upload/ (UploadBase.php UploadFromChunks.php UploadFromStash.php): Removed the $tmpFile parameter to UploadBase::verifyUpload in favour of $this->mTempFile.
[17:09:08] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: no
[17:09:16] <^demon>	Well damn.
[17:09:40] <brion>	ialex: ok it's rerunning them :)
[17:10:27] <tyrok>	Hi everyone!
[17:11:01] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: I'm trying to think outside the box here, since there's no built-in support for it.
[17:11:51] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: tim added one entry which is a list of keys for all entries
[17:11:52] <tyrok>	Having some trouble with a MediaWiki 1.15.1 installation.  It worked quite well, up until a few days ago.  Now, it seems to be truncating some pages (sometimes mid-word, even), to the point where, on some pages, I cannot see the full left-side menu.  Using timtest seems to help.  Any ideas?
[17:11:56] <Nikerabbit>	or do not use cdb
[17:12:02] <c3l>	I am trying to apply the "short URL" to my wiki. It fails. Line causing troubble is $wgUsePathInfo = true; when I comment it I can load the wiki, when its uncommented I get error 404. What to do?
[17:12:36] <Emufarmers>	c3l: Um, keep it commented out? :)
[17:12:46] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: What's the key name?
[17:12:57] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: it doesn't matter
[17:13:19] <Emufarmers>	tyrok: any extensions?
[17:13:22] <c3l>	Emufarmers: well that line is a part of the shorter url guide http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL , making that line is what its all about =)
[17:13:22] <Nikerabbit>	$_ $cache->get( 'allkeysplease' ); foreach ($_ as $key) {...}
[17:13:38] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: Not unless they're included in the default installation.  I'm kind of new to this.
[17:13:46] <brion>	Rob's talk on our tech infrastructure starts in a couple minutes in Room F downstairs
[17:13:55] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: allkeysplease?
[17:13:57] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: Or do you mean PHP extensions?
[17:14:02] <flyingparchment>	brion: is this stuff watchable online?
[17:14:16] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: it's not special
[17:14:21] <brion>	in theory they've got some kind of streaming, but i'm not sure for every room
[17:14:26] <Emufarmers>	tyrok: no, I was thinking of wiki extensions.  Though what version of PHP are you using?
[17:14:28] <brion>	though of course there'll be nothing new in it for you flyingparchment  :)
[17:14:34] <brion>	should be downloadable later at least
[17:14:48] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: 5.2.9.  I'm on Fedora 11.
[17:15:00] <Emufarmers>	Oh, right
[17:15:12] <Emufarmers>	c3l: you're using the recommended guide?
[17:15:22] <c3l>	Emufarmers: Yes
[17:15:25] <brion>	hrmmmm i'm not really sure wtf's going on there :(
[17:15:30] <brion>	linode server is unhappy
[17:15:31] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: I'm confused. You say he stores the list of keys as an entry. Is it called 'allkeysplease'? I'm trying to get that list so I can load all entries. I'm confused by what you're meaning by "it doesn't matter" or "it's not special"
[17:15:42] <Nikerabbit>	tyrok: are you sure the timeout is not too small?
[17:16:00] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: it was a design proposal
[17:16:17] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Hmmm...I can check it, but I doubt it.  Other PHP scripts run just fine on it, and the pages load very quickly.
[17:16:29] <Nikerabbit>	nothing in error logs?
[17:16:40] <Emufarmers>	c3l: and your URLs aren't actually shortened with it disabled?
[17:16:40] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Ah ok, but never implemented?
[17:16:47] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Nope.
[17:17:00] <Nikerabbit>	^demon: I don't now about iw's, but there is list of messages in l10n cache
[17:17:54] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Tried turning output buffering off, too.  And turning implicit flushing on.  Neither yielded a correct result.
[17:18:23] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: max_execution_time's set to 30 seconds, and it certainly loads the wiki faster than that.
[17:18:27] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Any other ideas?
[17:18:32] <Nikerabbit>	hmph
[17:18:42] <Emufarmers>	tyrok: anything in PHP's error log?
[17:18:54] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Ah ok gotcha.
[17:18:58] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: Nope, unfortunately.  One of the first things I checked.
[17:19:29] <Nikerabbit>	tyrok: do you have php errors turned on?
[17:19:38] <c3l>	Emufarmers: No, without that line it looks like standard settings
[17:19:47] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Set to E_ALL.
[17:19:58] <Nikerabbit>	and display_errors = 1?
[17:20:07] <Emufarmers>	c3l: check Apache's error log to see what path it's actually trying to load
[17:20:15] <Nikerabbit>	hi RoanKattouw 
[17:20:25] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: No.  display_errors is off.  log_errors, however, is on.
[17:21:11] <RoanKattouw>	Hi Nikerabbit 
[17:21:25] *RoanKattouw 	is at Rob's talk at Wikimania
[17:21:30] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw!
[17:21:37] <TrevorParscal>	how's your trip thus far?
[17:22:54] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: Here's an example of the output for the main page: http://pastebin.com/d7bfc315c
[17:23:09] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: I had to redact a whole bunch of stuff, as it's an internal development wiki.
[17:23:25] <Emufarmers>	tyrok: what browser?
[17:23:25] <tyrok>	Nikerabbit: But, you can see where the code just kind of stops.
[17:23:44] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: I've tried Firefox and IE, and both of them stop at the same place in the code, IIRC.
[17:24:11] <c3l>	Emufarmers: In the error log it says that its trying to open the virtual directory. File does not exist: /srv/http/wiki, referer: http://localhost/
[17:24:30] <Emufarmers>	And where are the wiki files?
[17:24:34] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: It's been great
[17:24:46] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: How's things at home with Melissa?
[17:25:43] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: No baby so far, but thats probably a good thing cause our car broke down on Friday and I'm supposed to get it back today.. then she can go into labor :)
[17:25:53] <RoanKattouw>	heh
[17:25:59] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah having a car would be nice
[17:26:00] <svip>	eh
[17:26:43] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: I give up :)
[17:26:47] <Emufarmers>	The talk is starting o:
[17:27:30] <TrevorParscal>	Who's talking now?
[17:27:35] <RoanKattouw>	Rob
[17:27:43] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: So, any other ideas on my truncated output?
[17:28:13] <Emufarmers>	tyrok: not really, sorry
[17:28:31] <tyrok>	Emufarmers: No problem.  Thanks for giving it a shot!
[17:28:48] <TrevorParscal>	is it just me, or does he look like he could be related to the guy from Bizarre Foods (Andrew Zimmern) http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Bizarre_Foods
[17:29:09] <Emufarmers>	um, is any of it going to be in English?
[17:29:26] <TrevorParscal>	what language is he speaking?
[17:29:27] <TrevorParscal>	Server?
[17:29:36] <babilen>	i ahve a questions regarding timestamps in MW's DB schema
[17:29:36] <Emufarmers>	Spanish, sounds like
[17:29:42] <Emufarmers>	Am I watching the wrong feed?
[17:29:51] <c3l>	Emufarmers: It is like the virtual /wiki/ directory is empty or not redirecting to the actual articles etc.
[17:30:00] <RoanKattouw>	Rob's talking about servers in English
[17:30:02] <svip>	tyrok: Does error.log say anything?
[17:30:08] <tyrok>	svip: Nope.
[17:30:14] <RoanKattouw>	And he does look like that guy, but whiter
[17:30:27] <svip>	tyrok: Does other pages (not generated by MediaWiki or PHP) also get truncated?
[17:30:33] <babilen>	some timestamps default to an empty string, some to '1970...' and others to NULL although the column if NOT NULL
[17:30:34] <TrevorParscal>	he he he
[17:30:49] <CIA-70>	03btongminh * r55606 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ (ApiQueryAllimages.php ApiQueryImageInfo.php ApiUpload.php): Unify properties in ApiQueryAllimages, ApiQueryImageinfo and ApiUpload.
[17:30:53] <tyrok>	svip: Nope.  Got a Bugzilla install on the same system, and it works just fine.
[17:30:59] <babilen>	where can i find comprehensive information on the schema, and why the timestamp confusion.
[17:31:11] <tyrok>	svip: It's just some of the wiki pages, and only within the last few days.
[17:31:25] <svip>	tyrok: Are you caching?
[17:31:43] <tyrok>	svip: Might be.  Does MediaWiki have caching on out of the box?
[17:32:01] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: He's now talking about the record of 80k req/s which we're to blame for ;)
[17:32:04] <svip>	tyrok: Per default it is off.
[17:32:13] <svip>	tyrok: Check /images/cache/ to look for your cache.
[17:32:17] <tyrok>	svip: Would that be $wgMainCacheType?
[17:32:22] <svip>	tyrok: Indeed it would.
[17:32:48] <tyrok>	svip: No images/cache, and $wgMainCacheType is set to CACHE_NONE.
[17:32:54] <svip>	No cache then.
[17:33:07] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: yeah, well he needs to get his crap together cause once jquery and jquery-ui are on every page he will have to do something about it better than turning it off
[17:33:12] <RoanKattouw>	hehe
[17:33:17] <svip>	tyrok: Is there anything special about these pages that gets truncated?
[17:33:18] <RoanKattouw>	Rob has no idea it's fault
[17:33:21] <tyrok>	svip: Thanks for the help.  This has been kind of driving me nuts.
[17:33:24] <RoanKattouw>	*our fault
[17:33:39] <babilen>	especially why default values of timestamps of "1970..." vs ""
[17:33:47] <babilen>	is there a system?
[17:33:52] <tyrok>	svip: Not really.  They're fairly ordinary, and seemingly random.  It doesn't *appear* to be a fixed length that they get truncated at, either.
[17:33:53] <Emufarmers>	RoanKattouw: I'm watching on http://stream.wikimedia.org.ar/ and it's definitely not in English. o/
[17:34:00] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: And it was domas who did the disabling
[17:34:06] <svip>	tyrok: The length changes upon refresh?
[17:34:07] <tyrok>	svip: At least, I haven't noticed a pattern.  Some of the really long pages are fine.
[17:34:16] <TrevorParscal>	RoanKattouw: true
[17:34:22] <tyrok>	svip: Nope.  Gets truncated at the same spot.
[17:34:34] <svip>	tyrok: That rules out HTTP interruption.
[17:34:50] <Emufarmers>	c3l: but what is the actual path where the files are?
[17:34:51] <babilen>	and cl_timestamp is even TIMESTAMP
[17:34:57] <tyrok>	svip: It is being tunneled over an SSH connection, but I doubt that's the problem, as Bugzilla's also going over the same tunnel.
[17:35:02] <svip>	tyrok: Tried making minimal edits in these pages and see what happens?
[17:35:20] <TrevorParscal>	is there an english version of that stream?
[17:35:28] <tyrok>	svip: Pretty sure I did, but just to make sure, I'll try it again.
[17:35:51] <c3l>	Emufarmers: web root/phase3  (it was the original folder snv used to install)
[17:35:53] <Emufarmers>	TrevorParscal: I only see one stream
[17:36:14] <tyrok>	svip: Dagnabbit!  It quit doing it.  It's working correctly now.
[17:36:33] <svip>	tyrok: Hm.  Seems like a flaw in the storing of the db for the last edits.
[17:36:41] <tyrok>	svip: I logged out, logged back in again, and it's working.  I did that a number of times before.
[17:36:42] <svip>	Anyway, I am going for dinner.
[17:36:54] <tyrok>	svip: At least, I'm pretty sure I did.  Maybe I'm just losing my mind.  :)
[17:36:59] <tyrok>	svip: Thanks for the help!
[17:37:56] <CIA-70>	03ialex * r55607 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/specials/SpecialRevisiondelete.php): Follow-up r55584: seems that the "View logs for this page" link is useful even when doing log suppression :)
[17:38:12] <Emufarmers>	c3l: so have you set $wgScriptPath = '/phase3'; ?
[17:38:42] <Emufarmers>	Or just rename the directory to w
[17:39:20] <babilen>	is there any pattern to timestamp column defaults within MW database? some default to "1970.." others to "" and some are strings, some TIMESTAMPS
[17:39:26] <c3l>	Emufarmers: the problem was in the httpd.conf, i get through the 404 error. now I get Access forbidden instead -.-
[17:39:34] <Emufarmers>	c3l: progress :D
[17:39:47] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: If you can stand the Spanish stream, I have my talk at 4:15 (12:15 PT)
[17:39:56] <c3l>	Emufarmers: true :D but what could stop me form browsing the wiki?
[17:39:58] <Emufarmers>	What's the error say in the log?
[17:40:08] <TrevorParscal>	I just dont really understand spanish very well at all
[17:40:22] <TrevorParscal>	and I really want to see you and naoko.. and.. other people too
[17:40:28] <TrevorParscal>	wtf is with the spanish only?
[17:40:32] <RoanKattouw>	No idea
[17:40:36] <RoanKattouw>	Naoko is up tomorrow
[17:40:37] <Emufarmers>	They seem to be saying "wiki" a lot; I can understand that :D
[17:40:53] <TrevorParscal>	the translater's voice is annoying too
[17:41:20] <RoanKattouw>	TrevorParscal: Maybe complain in #wikimania or #wikimania2009 ?
[17:42:34] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) page move over redirect may fail with "PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function timestamp() on a non-object in includes/Title.php on line 2860" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20407  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[17:42:37] <c3l>	Emufarmers: client denied by server configuration: /path
[17:42:38] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Special:RevisionDelete links to page history even when doing log suppression - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20380  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[17:42:39] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) page move over redirect may fail with "PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function timestamp() on a non-object in includes/Title.php on line 2860" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20407 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Redirects; (carlb613)
[17:44:27] <CIA-70>	03raymond * r55608 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (161 files): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-08-26 17:25 UTC)
[17:45:56] *Emufarmers 	takes wikibugs out behind the barn and shoots it.
[17:48:33] <atglenn>	heh
[17:59:07] <wikibugs>	03(mod) when not logged in, text overlaps on top line - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20393  (10dough)
[18:00:46] <brion>	duesentrieb's toolserver presentation starting downstairs in room F
[18:01:40] <Bryan>	RoanKattouw: what is your opinion about the api returning {'result': 'Failure'} instead of throwing an error?
[18:01:49] <Bryan>	i.e. when should it return failure and when return an error?
[18:02:06] <flyingparchment>	brion: no stream in that room either i guess?
[18:02:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable dng uploads on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19153  +comment (10darxus)
[18:03:20] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: It should not be used in new places
[18:03:31] <RoanKattouw>	result=Failure should be used for cases where there's additional error info
[18:03:36] <RoanKattouw>	But dieUsage() supports that now
[18:03:47] <Bryan>	we have dieUsage($extraData = ...) now
[18:03:57] <RoanKattouw>	Aye
[18:03:59] <Bryan>	yeah, so actually never
[18:04:02] <RoanKattouw>	Which is much better
[18:04:04] <RoanKattouw>	Yes
[18:04:22] <RoanKattouw>	Except in action=edit where I used it in a lapse of judgment and we can't take that back because of B/C
[18:07:17] <Bryan>	ok, I don't know if brion want's to scap soonish, but I'd first cleanup ApiUpload a bit
[18:08:33] <^demon>	Why the hell am I not using RecursiveDirectoryIterator in Maintenance::getCoreScripts()?
[18:11:18] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: He's sitting right next to me, I'll tell him
[18:14:09] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LIKE is completely broken for SQLite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20275  (10maxsem.wiki)
[18:14:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Updaters Inc. is missing "global $wgDatabase;" in do_backlinking_indices_update() and do_categorylinks_indices_update() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20408 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Installation; (carlb613)
[18:14:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) prefsectiontip for extra fields in user create - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20404  (10mediawiki)
[18:14:39] <MaxSem>	Updaters Incorporated? o_0
[18:16:27] <Annemarie>	A wild MaxSem.
[18:17:07] <atglenn>	heh
[18:19:13] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55609 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/updaters.inc: (bug 20408) Missing global declarations.
[18:19:22] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Updaters Inc. is missing "global $wgDatabase;" in do_backlinking_indices_update() and do_categorylinks_indices_update() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20408  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[18:19:27] <pengi>	where should I submit a bugreport for a bug in the bugtracker? I can't change my email, and I get a "Software error", a backtrace and a text that tells me to send the errormessage to "webmaster@localhost"
[18:20:19] <^demon>	pengi: Report that to bugzilla's bugtracker. Bugzilla.mozilla.org I believe.
[18:20:54] <^demon>	pengi: And if you want me to try and change it for you, you can /msg me with your current and desired e-mail.
[18:22:08] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: Do you think you can get the ApiUpload cleanup done like this week?
[18:22:49] <Bryan>	probably
[18:23:29] <Platonides>	it could also be a local configuration program
[18:24:22] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: That'd be nice, because AFAIK brion wants to scap this week (like from Buenos Aires)
[18:24:24] <OverlordQ>	do you have IPv6 pengi?
[18:25:39] <OverlordQ>	IIRC if you have the restrict this session checkbox enabled it doesn't like it if you're using IPv6 and you try and change prefs. something along those lines
[18:25:49] <Bryan>	I can probably get the cleanup done tonight, but I also want to test it, which means that I have to create upload code for mwclient
[18:26:03] <pengi>	ah
[18:26:10] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: Or bug mdale (also in BA) to test for you
[18:26:14] <CIA-70>	03tstarling * r55610 10/trunk/extensions/SecurePoll/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Some improvments to tallying, and a script to convert an XML vote dump file to a more compact, human-readable format.
[18:26:24] *pengi 	tries
[18:29:56] <pengi>	OverlordQ: but it seems that I can't even log in without that checkedbox disabled... 
[18:30:10] <pengi>	I'm using SSL to, if that matters...
[18:30:38] <OverlordQ>	using firefox?
[18:30:40] <pengi>	mmm
[18:31:13] <pengi>	I guess that I can change a sys-config to use ipv4 by default and try
[18:31:22] <OverlordQ>	if using firefox, about:config set network.dns.disableIPv6 to true, login/edit preffs, re-enable.
[18:31:58] <pengi>	ah :) I didn't know firefox had that option :P
[18:32:30] <OverlordQ>	had to make extensive use of that option sometimes lol :)
[18:32:45] <pengi>	anyway... ^demon fixed it :)
[18:32:47] <pengi>	hehe :)
[18:33:08] <pengi>	but that config seemed to work :D thanks :)
[18:34:27] <brion>	Bryan: yay :D
[18:36:33] <Kamicciolo>	hi
[18:47:49] <^demon>	AryehGregor: I got to thinking about the abstraction of schema. You suggested using an array with a non-db-specific way to define the schema. What do you think of this approach? http://pastey.net/123431
[18:48:46] <CIA-70>	03raymond * r55611 10/trunk/extensions/ (136 files in 125 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from translatewiki.net (2009-08-26 17:35 UTC)
[18:52:10] <Kamicciolo>	A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:      (SQL query hidden)  from within function "SpecialRecentChanges::doMainQuery". MySQL returned error "1146: Table 'sonicthe_wikidb.tag_summary' doesn't exist (localhost)".
[18:52:26] <OverlordQ>	did you run update.php?
[18:52:33] <Bryan>	php maintenance/update.php
[18:55:23] <Bryan>	I'm thinking on moving those UploadBase constants to strings
[18:55:32] <Bryan>	that would be easier handling in the api
[18:55:39] <Bryan>	easier in general
[18:56:15] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55612 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES config/Installer.php): Partial revert of r53664 (bug 14201 Set $wgDBadminuser/$wgDBadminpassword during setup). Gives Brion icky feelings about setting a root password.
[18:56:26] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: Or just create a mapping function
[18:56:32] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Create AdminSettings.php during wiki installation, in the same way as LocalSettings.php - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14201  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[18:56:52] <Bryan>	of course, but I think strings are easier in general
[18:57:11] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah just changing the class constants should be fine
[18:57:47] <shellyell>	I believe Kamicciolo did this: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Upgrading#Alternative_2:_Re-run_the_installer
[18:57:58] <Bryan>	I believe TimStarling had a strong opion on this
[19:05:55] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) commons.wikipedia.org -> wikimedia.org redirect double-encodes special characters in query string - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20409 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (roan.kattouw)
[19:12:15] <c3l>	Does Google Calendar extension still work? ive read something about it not working any more..
[19:38:08] <c3l>	I need help installing widgets, after following the guide on mediawikis wiki I get this internal error: Magic word 'widget' not found. what to do? 
[19:38:52] <CIA-70>	03btongminh * r55613 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (7 files in 4 dirs): 
[19:38:52] <CIA-70>	* Cleanup ApiUpload
[19:38:52] <CIA-70>	* UploadBase::verifyUpload now always returns a status array
[19:38:52] <CIA-70>	* Disabled async upload by url because wfShellBackgroundExec is broken
[19:42:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable dng uploads on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19153  (10nospam)
[19:52:42] <c3l>	Need help installing extension widgets, it fails and gives me error:  Magic word 'widget' not found..... all over the wiki
[19:54:18] <rchern>	if i am on a subpage link, how do i internally link to a sibling of the subpage? is there a shortcut like subpage or do i have to use the full title?
[19:56:40] <cysioland>	How add image in link (<a href="something"><img src="something" /></a>)
[19:56:44] <cysioland>	????????
[19:57:00] <svip>	[[File:Image.png|link=Whereto]]
[19:57:26] <Annemarie>	Only for recent-ish versions of MW.
[19:58:26] <cysioland>	i have 1.15.1 and it works
[19:58:33] <cysioland>	!thankyou svip
[19:58:33] --mwbot--	You're welcome. :)
[20:00:19] <Bryan>	ok, I cleaned up ApiUpload but I did not actually test it
[20:01:09] <Roan-talk>	Bryan: Nice, quick work
[20:01:15] <Roan-talk>	I just finished giving a talk about the API
[20:01:35] <Bryan>	How was it?
[20:01:50] <Bryan>	got a lot of questions?
[20:02:45] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Give 'crat the right to remove sysop on Simple English Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20410 normal; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (microchip08)
[20:03:16] <wikibugs>	03(mod) XHTML parse error when using some math formulas - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19177  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[20:03:23] <Annemarie>	necromanced ?
[20:03:29] <c3l>	ill go ahead and try again, Need help installing extension widgets, it fails and gives me error:  Magic word 'widget' not found..... all over the wiki
[20:03:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Give 'crat the right to remove sysop on Simple English Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20410   +easy +shell (10microchip08)
[20:09:47] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: Just two, one from this answers.com guy who kept asking another few in private
[20:10:11] <RoanKattouw>	Not the same level of attendance that Rob (server infrastructure) and Daniel (toolserver) got, but I'm happy to get this kind of attention for this shady geeky subject
[20:10:12] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) ApiUpload calls the UploadFromX object's verifyUpload() incorrectly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19931  +comment (10Bryan.TongMinh)
[20:10:41] <RoanKattouw>	Bryan: Yay!
[20:11:33] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Give 'crat the right to remove sysop on Simple English Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20410  +comment (10cbrown1023)
[20:11:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Give bureaucrats the ability to remove sysop and bureaucrat rights at simplewiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20271  +comment (10cbrown1023)
[20:14:46] <uberfuzzy>	is there any way to completely disable the gender stuff from preferences/etc from 1.15?
[20:14:57] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, before i forget
[20:14:59] <rainman-sr>	could you reduce the srmax thingy for search?
[20:15:05] <rainman-sr>	it's like 500 now,and it's pretty bad when people keep hitting it with API
[20:15:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Give bureaucrats the ability to remove sysop rights at simplewiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20271  summary; +comment (10cbrown1023)
[20:15:15] <Annemarie>	uberfuzzy: There a variable in DefaultSettings.php to disable specific preferences, I think.
[20:15:21] <rainman-sr>	fetching snippets takes lots of time
[20:15:22] <Annemarie>	An array somewhere, I think?
[20:15:41] <uberfuzzy>	i didnt think that was coming till 1.16?
[20:16:14] <Annemarie>	Not sure.
[20:16:25] <Annemarie>	!defaultsettings
[20:16:25] --mwbot--	For the current version of DefaultSettings.php, see: <http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/DefaultSettings.php?view=markup>.
[20:17:12] <Annemarie>	!wg HiddenPrefs
[20:17:12] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgHiddenPrefs
[20:18:02] <rainman-sr>	RoanKattouw, so, to around 50 would be nice
[20:18:07] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: Yeah
[20:18:17] <RoanKattouw>	Is it OK to do up to 500 without snippets?
[20:18:55] <RoanKattouw>	If so, I'll just apply a 50-result limit to requests with prop=snippet only
[20:19:23] <kibble>	(bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18761, uberfuzzy, in addition to Annie's link)
[20:20:12] <RoanKattouw>	lol:
[20:20:14] <RoanKattouw>	+ * FIXME: Does not work on Windows; does not work at all (See CodeReview r55575)
[20:20:38] <uberfuzzy>	but no specific way to un-add the gender stuff on its own, without unseting it out somehow?
[20:20:53] <kibble>	RoanKattouw, I like: http://stream.wikimedia.org.ar/
[20:21:02] <kibble>	NOTE: Internet Explorer 6 is not supported. Click here to download a real browser.
[20:21:28] <RoanKattouw>	Is that the place where you could see me talk with Spanish audio just now? :D
[20:21:50] <kibble>	I could have, but I'm not watching it :-(
[20:22:01] <kibble>	I'm not sure which room it streams
[20:22:27] <rchern>	if i am on a subpage link, how do i internally link to a sibling of the subpage? is there a shortcut like subpage or do i have to use the full title?
[20:22:43] <Platonides>	I don't know who is talking now
[20:22:50] <kibble>	rchern, [[../Blah]] maybe?
[20:23:22] <uberfuzzy>	hmm, dos parenting structures in pagenames... what a concept
[20:23:24] <Platonides>	there're a couple of people talking about... filosophical matters
[20:24:14] <kibble>	Platonides, http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/El_conocimiento_como_bien_social_y_la_Biblioteca_de_Babel maybe?
[20:26:11] <rchern>	(:kibble:) :|
[20:27:50] <kibble>	:o
[20:27:59] <kibble>	is that a happy face or not? *isn't sure*
[20:28:23] <rchern>	it isn't lol.
[20:29:24] <kibble>	rchern, what's wrong?
[20:31:18] <rchern>	just trying to get the sibling link to work
[20:31:32] <kibble>	[[../sibling]] works for me
[20:31:43] <rchern>	:o hrm it didn't for me
[20:32:14] <rchern>	it didn't link at all, just included that as plaintext
[20:32:20] <kibble>	rchern, http://wiki.caseybrown.org/A/b/c
[20:32:26] <kibble>	did you make sure you have two periods?
[20:33:50] <rchern>	yes there are two periods
[20:34:18] *kibble 	shrugs
[20:34:30] <RoanKattouw>	rainman-sr: For the record, can you confirm that 500 is a sane limit for non-snippet requests?
[20:38:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable dng uploads on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19153  (10darxus)
[20:43:05] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable dng uploads on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19153  (10dc)
[20:44:16] <Alphos>	damn, i missed prodego by a few hours :x
[20:44:25] <Alphos>	he missed something yesterday in ##php ^^'
[20:44:56] <Alphos>	http://alphos.fr/wikiserver got me a laugh :p
[20:46:21] <Bryan>	people do write WebServers in PHP
[20:46:41] <Bryan>	in fact I saw a rather complete one some time ago
[20:47:00] <Bryan>	I think nad is running MediaWiki with sqlite and a PHP webserver
[20:48:26] <CIA-70>	03jojo * r55614 10/trunk/extensions/Collection/Collection.body.php: 
[20:48:26] <CIA-70>	fix URL construction by using shorter code
[20:48:26] <CIA-70>	Thanks to CoR for the report & fix!
[21:07:27] <Alphos>	Prodego_ \o/
[21:07:36] <Prodego_>	?
[21:07:41] <Alphos>	http://alphos.fr/wikiserver you just missed that yesterday on ##php :p
[21:08:05] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Some IIS-based configuration doesn't serve 404 errors from PHP correctly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18270  +comment (10Platonides)
[21:08:06] <Alphos>	(irc log, nothing to fret ;) )
[21:09:22] <Prodego>	a wiki like php5 based webserver?
[21:09:29] <Prodego>	what?
[21:09:37] <Prodego>	why would you ever want that
[21:10:15] <Prodego>	Alphos: you know, now you need to make one though
[21:10:32] <Prodego>	then you could run webservers ON your webserver
[21:10:45] <Prodego>	of course you could do that anyway
[21:10:48] <Prodego>	but, meh
[21:11:12] <Alphos>	remember i'm the one who wrote a couple of daemons in php :p
[21:11:44] <Alphos>	(functional, but results are a bit buggy because of a pebcak on my part)
[21:13:21] <CIA-70>	03catrope * r55615 10/trunk/phase3/includes/api/ApiQuerySearch.php: API: Per rainman, mark list=search as an expensive query and lower its limits to 50/500 from 500/5000
[21:20:01] <Splarka>	RoanKattouw (who just peered, don't worry, he reads logs), is that 'cuz of opensearch touching revisions, eg: "<domas> as you can see, it is core->api->apiextension->prefixsearch->searchextension->revisionfetch", or is QuerySearch's uncheapness unrelated?
[21:22:54] *Splarka 	sense a disturbance in the WMF office internets
[21:23:10] <atglenn>	eh?
[21:23:24] <atglenn>	that would be the wmf argentinian internets
[21:23:30] <Splarka>	oh, them
[21:23:39] <Splarka>	dur
[21:23:57] <Splarka>	se habla espanol?
[21:24:14] <atglenn>	not me
[21:25:10] <Splarka>	huh, odd that bri/roan/mdale all reconnected at the same time, and all failed to identify...
[21:25:13] <AryehGregor>	Bah, ^demon asked me a question and then vanished.
[21:25:42] <Splarka>	AryehGregor: I've seen 3 stab-sprees by you today so far, in the logs, don't turn into Rob Church ^_^
[21:25:53] <Splarka>	(and maybe ^demon is spooked of ya)
[21:27:10] <CIA-70>	03catrope * r55616 10/branches/wmf-deployment/includes/api/ApiQuerySearch.php: wmf-deployment: Merge r55615 (lower limits for list=search)
[21:31:41] <wikibugs>	03(mod) XHTML parse error when using some math formulas - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19177  (10almacha)
[21:32:28] <GreenAway>	Hmm. If there are 0 subcategories, does it really have to say (0) at the end of the entry in the category listing? Couldn't it just say nothing at all?
[21:33:34] <Splarka>	what are ya, a roman?
[21:35:44] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Corrupt content in Description in opensearch results - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20411 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: API; (fedot.p)
[21:37:14] <GreenAway>	Splarka: Well, you know our motto - "Vidi, veni . . ."
[21:40:19] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LIKE is completely broken for SQLite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20275  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[21:40:43] <AryehGregor>	GreenAway, it seems more ambiguous to not say anything at all.
[21:41:44] <GreenAway>	Well, if it's there, there are subcategories
[21:41:47] <GreenAway>	If it's not, there aren't.
[21:41:57] <GreenAway>	Pretty simple.
[21:42:46] <Splarka>	for wikifur, more like "veni, vidi, veni denuo"
[21:54:29] <AryehGregor>	GreenAway, how does the user know it doesn't mean something like "I don't know"?
[21:55:25] <GreenAway>	Well, honestly, I didn't know what it meant at all until I expanded it and found "oh, right, it's the number of subcategories. It's non-obvious to start with.
[21:55:38] <AryehGregor>	I agree with that.
[21:55:42] <GreenAway>	So if they'd be equally confused, might as well not send it. <g>
[21:55:45] <AryehGregor>	I doubt it's very useful either, it seems cluttery.
[21:56:19] <GreenAway>	That's my basic issue with it. It makes it harder to identify the ones that actually do have subcategories.
[21:56:49] <GreenAway>	Not much harder, but milliseconds are milliseconds. <g>
[21:57:28] <Splarka>	tooltip it!
[21:57:50] <Splarka>	oh, wait, it does already
[21:58:16] <Splarka>	<span title="contains 0 subcategories, 11 pages, and 0 files">(0)</span>
[21:58:24] <Splarka>	GreenAway: valid info there, WFM WONTFIX
[21:58:49] <GreenAway>	Why isn't that tooltip on the link?
[21:59:19] <Splarka>	that'd be silly, internal links have a standard tooltip already
[21:59:29] <GreenAway>	Maybe on *your* wiki . . .
[21:59:40] <Splarka>	except subcat links have no tooltip at all
[21:59:47] <GreenAway>	Yes.
[21:59:53] <GreenAway>	which was my point. :-)
[22:00:11] <Splarka>	well they should have title="Category:pagename"
[22:00:22] <Splarka>	not some useless info about how many cats you have
[22:00:28] <Splarka>	mew
[22:00:48] <GreenAway>	Category:whatever seems pretty useless when it's clearly a subcategory and its display text is "whatever"
[22:00:57] *GreenAway 	is more inclined to take the tooltip away from the other category links.
[22:01:09] <Splarka>	yes, you would be
[22:01:15] <Splarka>	omg wasted bytes!1
[22:01:26] *GreenAway 	measures.
[22:02:20] <Splarka>	hmm, I guess a redlink can never exist there
[22:02:30] <Splarka>	since a category can't be categorized without content
[22:03:02] <AryehGregor>	Hopefully.
[22:03:07] <Splarka>	damn, unless someone introduced a feature to categorize them with some crazy criteria
[22:03:10] <AryehGregor>	I assume we don't bother checking, in any event.
[22:03:36] <Splarka>	[[Category:Categories populated by non-content namespace pages]]
[22:03:52] <Splarka>	[[Category:Categories you wouldn't take home to show your family]]
[22:09:22] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Corrupt content in Description in opensearch results - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20411  normal->low (10fedot.p)
[22:09:31] <GreenAway>	39.1kb -> 38.2kb, or 5.94kb -> 5.98kb gzipped to remove titles. But better: 33.9kb, or 5.74 if CategoryTree's verbose classes and function name calls were replaced with three or four letter classes.
[22:10:08] <GreenAway>	Sorry, that should be "or 5.94 -> 5.81kb gzipped to remove titles"
[22:12:25] <GreenAway>	That's for http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Category:Culture - might not have quite the same effect on Wikipedia, but probably close to it.
[22:13:24] <GreenAway>	Don't know how much you'd save cutting the (0)s and moving the tooltips to the category link, but probably at least 100 gzipped bytes or so.
[22:13:44] <Splarka>	cool story bro
[22:14:07] <svip>	GreenAway: http://spiltirsdag.dk/~svip/translate/#en|ja|Why%20am%20I%20bothering%20with%20these%20examples?
[22:14:10] <svip>	;)
[22:15:19] *GreenAway 	looooves the plague.
[22:16:33] <GreenAway>	Splarka: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/38/Roflbot-triQ.jpg
[22:17:01] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Subcategories listed in Category list should have page title in tooltip (title=""). - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20412 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Categories; (herd)
[22:17:18] *Splarka 	bytes his thumb at Green
[22:17:59] <GreenAway>	Don't make me go all Mercutio on your ass.
[22:19:57] <GreenAway>	Or better, my mom. She majored in Shakespeare studies. :-)
[22:20:53] <Splarka>	eh, you're bringing your own mom into the argument?
[22:21:08] <Splarka>	http://15.media.tumblr.com/WBOQatJsVqo5gry5awtTHRSZo1_500.gif
[22:21:16] <GreenAway>	Think of it as a preemptive strike.
[22:33:19] <mattis^>	nephew (looked up spelling)
[22:34:13] <mattis^>	sry, wrong channel
[22:37:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LIKE is completely broken for SQLite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20275  +comment (10mrzmanwiki)
[22:38:22] <Luminette>	could anyone take a look at this wiki page / source and help me to understand what I have to do to be able to make such a template for my own use?  http://sc2pod.com/wiki/Ghost
[22:39:35] <Splarka>	Template:UnitBox you mean?
[22:39:39] <Luminette>	yeah, the unit box on the right
[22:39:51] <Splarka>	first you need...
[22:39:53] <Splarka>	!parserfunctions
[22:39:53] --mwbot--	"Parser functions" are a way to extend the wiki syntax. ParserFunctions is an extension that provides the basic set of parser functions (you have to install it separately!).  For help using parser functions, please see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Parser_functions>. For details about the extension, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions>.
[22:40:27] <Splarka>	then you copy http://sc2pod.com/wiki/Template:UnitBox
[22:41:09] <Luminette>	mm, thank you very much :)
[22:41:25] <Splarka>	hmm, I don't see any CSS definitions for it...
[22:42:00] <Luminette>	the scrapped / sc1 = false aren't css?
[22:42:30] <Splarka>	that's mediawiki template syntax
[22:42:45] <Splarka>	at a glance it looks like all the styling there is inline
[22:42:53] <Splarka>	so it should just work by coping that template
[22:42:55] <Splarka>	in theory...
[22:43:09] <Splarka>	though it is oddly constructed, it has lots of empty <tr>
[22:43:49] <Luminette>	mm, do we want 1.15x or development version (trunk) ?
[22:44:17] <Splarka>	1.15
[22:44:23] <Splarka>	trunk is a mess currently
[22:44:30] <Splarka>	so much so that WMF stopped using it!
[22:45:10] <Luminette>	alright, going to try to work this out now
[22:45:12] <Luminette>	:)
[22:45:26] <Splarka>	(actually the reverse, it is a mess because WMF forked to its own branch, if one believes that correlation does imply causation)
[22:46:21] <Splarka>	((rather to say, since WMF last used trunk, there have been 3 major branches merged in and one semi-fork, and no big wiki is running trunk))
[22:52:00] <Splarka>	damn, gotta go for a bit, I know you'll miss me (except Green will enjoy the reduced bytes!)
[23:28:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) LIKE is completely broken for SQLite - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20275  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:45:43] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Error Handline Leap Years (Feb 29) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20413 minor; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (contact)