[00:14:13] <babilen>	hi all.. does anybody happen to know how rev_len and rev_parent_id are serialised within the WP XML dumps... i can't find it in any dump i have around...
[00:17:11] <elusive2>	what's the best use of links -"namespaces", where you go: ProductDetails:Pepsi
[00:17:12] <Platonides>	I don't think they are serialised
[00:17:47] <elusive2>	er, when would i use something like ProductDetails:Pepsi as a link, versus a category link like Category:ProductDetails
[00:18:08] <GreenReaper>	babilen: There isn't a need for them to be, it should be able to work it out from the rev_id and the actual length of the revision, no?
[00:19:38] <babilen>	yes.. if they are not serialised i can still work it out. just wanted to check first before i set them to NULL by default for all revisions i find while parsing the XML dump...
[00:20:32] <babilen>	just thought that it might be stupid to throw away information that is available. just couldn't find the corresponding xml tags
[00:20:32] *GreenReaper 	is just happy they had an accurate ID in there - had to use them to overwrite "external" text records that weren't actually available anymore.
[00:20:55] <GreenReaper>	Well, arguably it would be stupid to include information in an already-huge file that could be regenerated. <g>
[00:21:07] <babilen>	true as well...
[00:21:18] <babilen>	space vs time
[00:22:00] <babilen>	but it would be even more stupid if i neglect that information *if* they decided to put it in there
[00:22:20] <babilen>	but i am fine... less cases for expat :-)
[00:23:24] <elusive2>	if you want to setup Mediawiki for a small company, is it recommended to use a separate namespace for each department? 
[00:23:40] <elusive2>	maybe would be better to just keep it simple/flat.
[00:24:19] <elusive2>	but right now what I'm trying to do is just document some objects and database tables -- i'm thinking of making an Object and Table namespace
[00:24:45] <GreenReaper>	It might work but it seems quite complicated - do you expect namespace clashes?
[00:24:59] <GreenReaper>	You could also consider separating pages via category.
[00:25:04] <elusive2>	clashes on the objects and database talbes yes
[00:26:15] <elusive2>	i.e. we have a Transaction table and a Transaction object
[00:26:42] <GreenReaper>	If you are looking to represent it like that at a low level, it could certainly help to have a namespace.
[00:26:57] <GreenReaper>	Though you could also have a Category:Objects and a page named [[Transaction object]].
[00:27:27] *Splarka 	reduces GreenReaper to #0f0‡
[00:27:28] <Irunongames>	Where can I recommend improvements
[00:27:29] <GreenReaper>	Depends how you want to do it. If you want to search objects specifically, for example, it makes sense to have a namespace.
[00:27:43] <GreenReaper>	Irunongames: There's a bug filing database at bugzilla.mozilla.org
[00:27:45] <GreenReaper>	wait
[00:27:50] <GreenReaper>	bugzilla.wikimedia.org
[00:27:56] <GreenReaper>	The first one will work too, but it's not the right one. :-)
[00:28:14] <GreenReaper>	You're welcome to mention them here first, of course.
[00:28:38] <Splarka>	...before it gets duped, is the rest of that sentence
[00:28:47] <Irunongames>	Me and another wikipedia have been talking with eachother about how to make wiki better
[00:28:54] <elusive2>	ah - ok that makes sense...that a big reason to namespace it, is to isolate searches. I think it might make sense. We also want to track our servers in mediawiki, so i was thinking a Servers namespace
[00:29:00] <Irunongames>	We thing wikipedia should have tagging
[00:29:18] <Irunongames>	Or a AI That will answer questions
[00:29:28] <Irunongames>	IE: Who was the first president os the US
[00:29:29] <elusive2>	isn't there a plug-in for tagging by now? 
[00:29:45] <Irunongames>	*of
[00:30:24] <Irunongames>	Would that be posible to create?>
[00:31:36] <GreenReaper>	It sounds like you want something close to Semantic MediaWiki
[00:31:52] <GreenReaper>	http://semantic-mediawiki.org/
[00:32:13] <GreenReaper>	As for AI, there's the reference desk. It's better than AI!
[00:32:36] <Irunongames>	But AI'
[00:32:43] <GreenReaper>	"Reference Desk: We take the A out of AI"
[00:32:43] <Irunongames>	s are always in movies
[00:32:47] <Irunongames>	o.o
[00:32:54] <GreenReaper>	Yes, and they're always *evil* and *lose*.
[00:32:54] *Irunongames 	is confuzzled :P
[00:33:43] <GreenReaper>	No, http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/ConFuzzled is ConFuzzled. :-)
[00:34:13] <GreenReaper>	You can just ask a question here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_help_desk
[00:34:32] <GreenReaper>	AI is a complex problem that Wikipedia is not equipped to solve, though a good AI might well draw *from* Wikipedia.
[00:35:11] <Splarka>	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.AIIsACrapshoot
[00:35:14] <Splarka>	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InstantAIJustAddWater
[00:35:49] *GreenReaper 	heart Shodan.
[00:46:52] <elusive2>	hmm from playing around - it sounds like I could use mediawiki for a side project also. Basically I wanted a set of "super-categories" like "Person", "Place", "Event". a custom namespace for each sounds appropriate. But I'd probably want to customize the search to tell it to search all namespaces 
[00:47:01] <elusive2>	by default.
[00:52:38] <elusive2>	can you disable how mediawiki forces an uppercase for the first letter? 
[00:54:59] <Splarka>	elusive2: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgCapitalLinks
[00:57:42] <elusive2>	ahh. I was searching for sometihng like "camel case" and ignored the obvious -- "capital"
[00:57:45] <elusive2>	thanks
[01:13:30] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: non-named thanks like that offset the crude search method, nyah
[01:29:08] <p858snake>	why does [[w:Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#Reattribution_issue]] even need a good connection... it should just stick it into the job qeue and the users browser should be finished with it
[01:31:02] <MrZ-man>	connection has nothing to do with it
[02:35:23] <javauser>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates So, if I need to reuse <div style="border: 1px dotted black; padding: 5px; text-align: center;"> </div> I can use templates?
[02:37:09] <Splarka>	si
[02:43:12] <javauser>	that's going to help a lot, all pages that I create reuse the same divs with the same colors and borders
[02:43:52] <Splarka>	probably worth seting up a class then
[02:44:10] <Splarka>	<div class="center-bordered">
[02:44:25] <Splarka>	.center-bordered { border: 1px dotted black; padding: 5px; text-align: center;}
[02:49:19] <Daworm>	he left Splarka 
[02:49:28] <Daworm>	(or she)
[02:50:14] <Splarka>	and if xe comes back, the answer is there for xem
[03:03:07] <CIA-70>	03purodha * r55664 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php: Mediawiki:tags-tag amended accordig to request of User:Lloffiwr at http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support#tags-tag
[05:32:18] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: looks like you forgot the escape foo thing from your test?
[05:32:58] <Nikerabbit>	AryehGregor: you should also beware that mysql allows \\ at the end of the string
[06:27:14] <needhelp1>	Can someone explain to me how to get to and use command line on my server
[06:27:22] <needhelp1>	i dont think my host allows me to do that.. if thats possible
[06:27:38] <needhelp1>	I just dont understand
[06:28:05] <charitwo>	needhelp1: do you have shared hosting ?
[06:28:16] <needhelp1>	what does shared mean?
[06:28:24] <needhelp1>	i pay for a hosting account on a server i suppose..
[06:28:33] <needhelp1>	so the server is shared im assuming 
[06:28:53] <Emufarmers>	needhelp1: talk to your host.
[06:28:56] <charitwo>	shared hosting means you share a server with the other people who pay for the same service.
[06:29:09] <needhelp1>	yes
[06:29:19] <charitwo>	in order to use the command line, your hosting needs to support ssh access
[06:29:33] <charitwo>	which usually means you need dedicated or virtual dedicated hosting
[06:29:39] <needhelp1>	they said they would have to convert my account and switch over everything to allow ssh access
[06:29:42] <Emufarmers>	Not really
[06:29:46] <needhelp1>	and i would have to pay for a personal server or something
[06:29:56] <needhelp1>	it was expensive 
[06:30:27] <needhelp1>	compared to what im paying now... is there not a way to do all the maintence stuff without using ssh to get to command line
[06:30:38] <Emufarmers>	What do you need to do?
[06:30:58] <needhelp1>	well i mean.. everything lol :) 
[06:31:11] <p858snake>	some of the stuff can be done alternative ways
[06:31:17] <Emufarmers>	Well, have fun doing everything, then.
[06:31:26] <needhelp1>	install act up on me all the time
[06:31:34] <needhelp1>	and the admin account isnt made.. or not correctly
[06:32:31] <needhelp1>	is it a goal to incorporate all these maintence scripts into .. configure whatever its called
[06:32:42] <needhelp1>	to move away from the command line scripts ?
[06:33:25] <p858snake>	no, configure is something else
[06:33:50] <needhelp1>	any idea if its a goal to move away from command line scripts ?
[06:34:16] <p858snake>	nope, but i believe they are getting reworked to work better
[06:34:23] <needhelp1>	administering an mediawiki site is soo difficult compared to other opensource projects
[06:34:27] <needhelp1>	IMO
[06:34:50] <p858snake>	you should be able to make a user account dirrectly at the database (eg: using something phpmyadmin or other db interfaces)
[06:35:38] <needhelp1>	the mediawiki UI project is great.. but IMO the next big project should be a Admin Interface project.. if that makes sense
[06:35:39] <p858snake>	not really, most of those maintance scripts shouldn't really need to be run most of the time, the only real issue is the upgrader which the installer should do anyway
[06:35:59] <needhelp1>	the installer for me at least messes up quite often
[06:36:07] <Emufarmers>	In what way?
[06:36:16] <p858snake>	configure is a extenstion designed to give a interface for the local settings file
[06:36:33] <needhelp1>	doing away with the localsettings.php .. i think it is right?
[06:36:48] <Emufarmers>	needhelp1: yes, that's in the works
[06:36:53] <needhelp1>	interesting
[06:36:55] <Emufarmers>	but what's not working wiht the installer?
[06:37:14] <needhelp1>	for me... it always hangs up half way during the installing process
[06:37:16] <Emufarmers>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Configuration_database by the way
[06:37:19] <needhelp1>	or.. it doesnt create the admin user
[06:37:26] <Emufarmers>	Hmm
[06:37:35] <needhelp1>	so i refresh or re run the installer
[06:37:35] <p858snake>	and what error message does it show when it hangs?
[06:37:38] <needhelp1>	which well.. makes it all worse
[06:37:58] <needhelp1>	ahh i dono..i had it wrote down somewhere i havent messed with mediawiki in around 2 weeks
[06:38:15] <needhelp1>	set it up for a friend.. i dont have much experience with MW
[06:38:27] <needhelp1>	ive always been afraid of its backend.. or lack of
[06:39:07] <needhelp1>	even after i loged into the DB.. set up the user there.. and i remember having to change something from .sample to .php..
[06:39:08] <p858snake>	it has a backend... its a single php file
[06:39:12] <needhelp1>	the admin login was still not working
[06:39:28] <needhelp1>	wouldnt that just be a config file..
[06:39:29] <p858snake>	we don't ship with sample files iirc....
[06:39:38] <OverlordQ>	AdminSettings
[06:39:41] <Emufarmers>	AdminSettings.sample: you'll be happy to know it's been removed in 1.16 :)
[06:39:42] <needhelp1>	right
[06:39:47] <Emufarmers>	At the top of config/index.php, right below <?php, try adding ini_set('max_execution_time', 300);
[06:39:57] <Emufarmers>	Which should probably be there by default
[06:40:35] <needhelp1>	I would love to see a Administrative GUI backend for MW
[06:40:41] <p858snake>	OverlordQ: oh, the file that jdanni kept crying about because brion said he wasn't changing it or something
[06:40:44] <Emufarmers>	In fact, I think I'll add it
[06:40:58] <OverlordQ>	why?
[06:41:03] <OverlordQ>	nothing should take 5 minutes
[06:41:20] <Emufarmers>	Well, 300 was an arbitrary choice :)
[06:41:28] <needhelp1>	administrating shouldnt take 5 mins.. but the install should
[06:41:43] <OverlordQ>	no
[06:41:44] <needhelp1>	but the install is not my concern 
[06:41:57] <Emufarmers>	But it seems like a lot of servers are too slow/have too low max_execution_times, so we should raise it the same way we do for the memory limit
[06:42:14] <OverlordQ>	the 'too low max_execution' times are probably host enforced
[06:42:30] <Emufarmers>	In some cases, yes, but not in all or even most
[06:43:47] <needhelp1>	im mean even simple stuff.. a backend where you could; receive MW news and updates, install extensions, manage users, see recent added articles, flaged pages .. stuff like that
[06:44:11] <needhelp1>	bringing it all together on a admin interface 
[06:44:22] <Emufarmers>	The worst that would happen is that PHP would complain about being unable to change it, and we can just suppress that
[06:44:48] <needhelp1>	is that referenced to me Emufarmers?
[06:44:56] <OverlordQ>	what needs to be done with manage users that isn't already there?
[06:44:57] <Emufarmers>	No, was talking to OverlordQ
[06:45:07] <OverlordQ>	and recent added articles is there to, along with flagged pages
[06:45:09] <needhelp1>	ahh ok 
[06:46:52] <needhelp1>	improvments to the admin interface is all im saying OverlordQ.. that would get the ball rolling
[06:47:26] <Splarka>	http://toolserver.org/~mzmcbride/cgi-bin/mw-logs.py?search=%3Cneedhelp1%3E.*backend
[06:47:36] <Emufarmers>	Most of the things you describe will be possible once the new installer is finished.  I think everybody would like to have them: they're just not a big priority for Wikimedia, because it doesn't need them.
[06:47:39] <OverlordQ>	you need to elaborate on these so called 'improvements'
[06:47:50] <OverlordQ>	just saying it needs 'improved' doesn't help.
[06:47:59] <p858snake>	almost everything is done in the settings file, which almost never needs touching execpt at first install and extenstion installations
[06:48:03] <Splarka>	he wants GUI for all maintenance scripts and localsettings settings so he can use cheap hosting
[06:48:19] <Splarka>	simple!
[06:48:32] <OverlordQ>	sounds like he's wanting a wordpress style interface
[06:48:57] <needhelp1>	OverlordQ: wordpress has a decent admin backend for blogging
[06:49:01] <needhelp1>	joomla as well
[06:49:13] <p858snake>	yes, but we are not a blog
[06:49:13] <OverlordQ>	yea I dont like those :)
[06:49:45] <p858snake>	thye have them because you are using them all the time
[06:49:46] <needhelp1>	interesting.. why dont you like those overlord?
[06:50:04] <OverlordQ>	a lot of unimportant cruft
[06:50:23] <needhelp1>	managing users, pages, news,updates.. all of these things are stuff that MW will continue to use all the time
[06:50:41] <p858snake>	users is alreadu done on wiki
[06:50:43] <OverlordQ>	yes, and that's all already possible
[06:50:44] <p858snake>	so is pages
[06:50:55] <OverlordQ>	cept for the 'news' and 'updates'
[06:51:08] <p858snake>	and we have a mailing list for updates
[06:51:59] <needhelp1>	OverlordQ: p858snake, what improvments do you think if any the MW admin section could use?
[06:52:09] <p858snake>	none
[06:52:50] <OverlordQ>	besides possibly making extensions easier (for technically uninclined) to install, not much
[06:53:05] <needhelp1>	thats interesting. I think if MW held a survey/poll ... it would be interesting to see the results 
[06:53:38] <needhelp1>	IMO the entire backend is due a facelift just like the front end UI
[06:54:15] <OverlordQ>	by the front end you mean the skin?
[06:54:16] <Splarka>	so write it, open project
[06:54:27] <p858snake>	and what is your rationale for it needing a "facelift"?
[06:55:21] <needhelp1>	Splarka: its an idea
[06:57:36] <p858snake>	thanks Emufarmers!
[06:57:44] <Emufarmers>	v:
[06:57:46] <needhelp1>	did the Usability Initiative hold any polls or surveys?
[06:58:08] <p858snake>	the Usability Initiative is for the frontend
[06:58:10] <Emufarmers>	The Usability Initiative was about making MediaWiki easier to use, not to manage
[06:58:49] <needhelp1>	lol yes i know.. which is sorta my point 
[06:59:03] <needhelp1>	i was trying to figure out what they used to hold the surveys/polls
[06:59:05] <needhelp1>	i found it though
[07:00:25] <OverlordQ>	it should be MOAR AJAXY!
[07:00:53] <OverlordQ>	i demand a spinning throbber when I block somebody!
[07:01:37] <needhelp1>	if by moar ajaxy you mean incorporating modern website management techniques i agree.. web 2.0 is a good thing IMO
[07:01:54] <OverlordQ>	that was laced with heavy heavy sarcasm
[07:02:17] <p858snake>	web2.0 is missing the vowels eg: blocker -> blockr
[07:02:30] <p858snake>	with big Beta banners
[07:02:30] <needhelp1>	lol
[07:02:38] <OverlordQ>	ajax is fine, but almost nobody gets it right
[07:02:48] <needhelp1>	coding wise?
[07:02:58] <OverlordQ>	presentation wise
[07:03:22] <needhelp1>	i guess thats the magic of opensource to sort that out 
[07:03:25] <OverlordQ>	"This is interesting, let me bookmark it." "TOO BAD! I used ajax to display the page, so now you can't!!!!"
[07:03:58] <p858snake>	its better than using flash to display it
[07:03:58] <needhelp1>	OverlordQ: i dont follow you
[07:04:49] <Splarka>	obviously
[07:04:58] <Splarka>	he left you in the ajax dust, holding his throbber
[07:05:27] <needhelp1>	lol... flash drives me insane 
[07:05:31] <needhelp1>	gnash never works
[07:06:38] <needhelp1>	anyone else use gnash?
[07:07:01] <OverlordQ>	tldr: sites that aren't stateful because they use ajax
[07:07:33] <OverlordQ>	in a bad way
[07:09:33] <OverlordQ>	thta's about as simple as I can put it
[07:11:18] <needhelp1>	are you all excited about liquidthreads?
[07:11:59] <OverlordQ>	no, /me doesn't like it personally
[07:13:35] <needhelp1>	do you mind me asking why?
[07:14:27] <OverlordQ>	too complicated
[07:15:27] <needhelp1>	i would argue that liquidthreads from a user standpoint adds simplicity and consistency. Its appealing to the eye as well 
[07:15:39] <needhelp1>	coding im sure makes things more complicated
[07:17:35] <OverlordQ>	first you have the header history, then you have thread history, then each post has a history
[07:18:33] <Emufarmers>	Hmm, is adding set_time_limit in the installer worth a RELEASE-NOTES entry?
[07:19:56] <needhelp1>	OverlordQ: is this added to the specific page? or saved somewhere else?
[07:20:39] <OverlordQ>	what?
[07:21:18] <needhelp1>	the discussion on a page.. with liquidthreads are these like... attached to that thread
[07:22:25] <needhelp1>	NV their seperate 
[07:22:34] <OverlordQ>	I'm still clueless on what you're asking. People post comments in threads on pages.
[07:23:46] <needhelp1>	the threads of comments are store seperate from the pages themselves
[07:23:50] <needhelp1>	at least i think so 
[07:24:09] <OverlordQ>	I have no clue how the backend works
[07:24:23] <OverlordQ>	werdna would know but he's probably either A) still drinking or B) getting over the drinking :)
[07:24:49] <needhelp1>	the line between those two events is always hard to find
[07:25:11] <needhelp1>	lol
[07:25:36] <apergos>	still drinking, judging from some chats I'm having at the moment :-P
[07:25:53] <needhelp1>	so are yall participating in the wikimania ?
[07:26:10] <OverlordQ>	it's a bit too far :)
[07:27:19] <needhelp1>	im wondering... will liquidthread be incorporated into core.. or just added into install package as a extension
[07:29:20] <OverlordQ>	maybe the next one back in the states I might have to go to
[07:29:31] <needhelp1>	yeah that would be fun 
[07:29:51] *p858snake 	attaches werdna to a IV fuild machine with a bag containing the drinks so we can keep him at his ballamer peak
[07:29:57] <Emufarmers>	They'll probably have one in Antarctica before they have another one in the US
[07:30:08] <apergos>	brrr sounds cold
[07:30:19] <OverlordQ>	TO keep the liquor cold one would assume
[07:30:51] <OverlordQ>	mmmmmm
[07:31:02] <OverlordQ>	that sounds good right now, time to go find the sailor
[07:31:20] <needhelp1>	whats your drink of choice OverlordQ?
[07:31:27] <OverlordQ>	depends
[07:32:29] <OverlordQ>	if i'm trying to get drunk: our punch; social: beer (a good wheat), jerry + coke. 
[07:32:46] <p858snake>	but the liquor would freeze there.... unless they only consumed vodka or the likes
[07:32:46] <needhelp1>	our punch... is this like PJ ?
[07:33:08] <OverlordQ>	pj?
[07:33:24] <p858snake>	punch is punhc, everyone knows what punch is
[07:33:29] <p858snake>	*punch
[07:33:42] <OverlordQ>	basically take a 55gal trash can, add in two and a half handles of gem clear
[07:34:03] <OverlordQ>	two and a half cans of kool aid, fill with water
[07:34:48] <needhelp1>	PJ is like a ...
[07:34:53] <needhelp1>	one sec let me see if i can find a link
[07:35:14] <apergos>	heh
[07:35:23] <apergos>	that's about right only we never had 55 gallon trash cans
[07:35:29] <apergos>	but we had a smaller number of drinkers too
[07:35:40] <OverlordQ>	also a fan of vodka drinks and schladerer fruit brandy
[07:35:56] <OverlordQ>	one of our parties we made 4 cans
[07:36:04] <OverlordQ>	we still had some left over
[07:36:13] <needhelp1>	if you google PJ alcoholic
[07:36:17] <needhelp1>	you'll see what i mean..
[07:36:21] <needhelp1>	basically same thing your talking about
[07:37:07] <OverlordQ>	close
[07:37:41] <needhelp1>	yeah
[07:38:02] <OverlordQ>	we rearely do the fruit unless it's a small party, gets expensive to make that kind
[07:38:08] <needhelp1>	yeah
[07:38:28] <needhelp1>	fruit cost more than booze... twisted lol
[07:39:23] <OverlordQ>	it's usually bacardi and fruit + soda
[07:39:23] <needhelp1>	have yall seen the previews for the new rockband?
[07:39:47] <needhelp1>	not sure of everyones age 
[07:40:12] <OverlordQ>	dont play rockband
[07:40:23] <needhelp1>	guitar hero?
[07:40:32] <CIA-70>	03emufarmers * r55665 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES config/Installer.php): Add set_time_limit( 0 ) to the installer; this should cut down on cases during installation where no user gets created, and during upgrades where people don't know that they might have to run the script several times.
[07:40:36] <Emufarmers>	There you go, needhelp1. ^__^
[07:40:58] <needhelp1>	:) lol well thanks Emufarmers
[07:41:01] <needhelp1>	thats very kind of you
[07:41:50] <needhelp1>	guitar hero by chance OverlordQ?
[07:42:45] <OverlordQ>	neither
[07:43:04] <needhelp1>	u like the beatles ?
[07:43:12] <OverlordQ>	not particularly
[07:43:27] <needhelp1>	rockband has a beatles version coming out 
[07:43:31] <needhelp1>	looks pretty interesting 
[07:43:34] <OverlordQ>	while some might find that blasphemous, they're just not my cup of tea
[07:43:47] <needhelp1>	to each their own :)
[07:44:56] <needhelp1>	do yall use linux ?
[07:44:58] <needhelp1>	or MS?
[07:45:15] <needhelp1>	my gnash keeps messing up on me its driving me crazy
[07:46:30] <OverlordQ>	I play games and dont want to mess with wine/cedega so I use windows on my desktop
[07:46:41] <needhelp1>	cool..
[07:47:02] <needhelp1>	trying to watch youtube videos has been a big issue for me... just cant get it working right
[07:47:20] <p858snake>	flash is the devils work
[07:47:40] <needhelp1>	i agree... but youtube is addicting 
[07:48:32] <p858snake>	virtualbox and xp install then use it
[07:48:36] <needhelp1>	wait.. google owns youtube... they should move to a non propriety video platform 
[07:48:58] <needhelp1>	yeah i know i just hate runing virtual machines..
[07:49:07] <needhelp1>	i feel like im selling out to cloud computing 
[07:50:08] <p858snake>	what do you think your web server is?
[07:50:18] <p858snake>	since you don't want to pay for a dedi machine
[07:50:34] <needhelp1>	good point 
[07:52:24] <needhelp1>	now that Emufarmers fixed the timeout thingy.. i should go buy a domain name and install mediawiki on it
[07:52:26] <needhelp1>	to play around with
[07:52:56] <needhelp1>	ive been pondering making a wiki for my city 
[07:56:03] <needhelp1>	i still dont have ssh access though
[07:56:21] <Emufarmers>	The fix won't actually be in the version you'll use
[07:56:30] <needhelp1>	ohh ok 
[07:56:44] <needhelp1>	when will it show up?
[07:56:47] <needhelp1>	1.6?
[07:56:52] <Emufarmers>	1.16
[07:57:03] <Emufarmers>	Assuming it makes it through code review :)
[07:57:10] <OverlordQ>	!r 55655
[07:57:10] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/55655
[07:57:10] <needhelp1>	is their a set due date for that?
[07:59:15] <needhelp1>	yall said that command line access is not needed often?
[07:59:46] <OverlordQ>	through normal usage of the wiki
[08:00:27] <needhelp1>	bleh.. as soon as i set it up.. it will be everything but normal lol
[08:01:02] <OverlordQ>	mmmmmm
[08:01:10] <needhelp1>	i mean my hosting package isnt "cheap" .... just no ssh
[08:01:25] <OverlordQ>	getting the is not a valid magic thingie error again :(
[08:01:45] <needhelp1>	hu?
[08:02:53] <Emufarmers>	So it's not cheap, it just sucks?
[08:03:17] <needhelp1>	not having ssh= sucks?
[08:03:28] <OverlordQ>	mmm, there we go, guess I needed to upgrade PF
[08:07:54] <needhelp1>	wait..i can use ssh
[08:07:57] <needhelp1>	i just have to migrate my account
[08:08:25] <OverlordQ>	thought you said they'd charge you ore for that
[08:08:29] <OverlordQ>	*more
[08:08:44] <needhelp1>	i thought they did too.. further reading i dont think they do
[08:09:04] <needhelp1>	says.. ssh is a secure alternative to ftp
[08:09:21] <needhelp1>	will take 24 hours to upgrade 
[08:09:35] <needhelp1>	database downtime of up to 10 mins 
[08:10:03] <Emufarmers>	Who's your host?
[08:11:54] <needhelp1>	i use a company called sasktech
[08:13:03] <needhelp1>	who do you use
[08:13:32] <Emufarmers>	DreamHost for my shared hosting needs
[08:13:49] <Emufarmers>	Slicehost for my VPS
[08:14:11] <OverlordQ>	linode :D
[08:14:28] <Emufarmers>	Heh, linode == Slicehost :p
[08:14:40] <OverlordQ>	s/==/>=/
[08:14:42] <OverlordQ>	:P
[08:14:56] <OverlordQ>	which reminds me, just installed new kernel, needs to reboot
[08:15:17] <Juandev>	hi
[08:15:20] <needhelp1>	dreamhost looks interesting
[08:15:24] <needhelp1>	do they do monthly payments
[08:15:28] <needhelp1>	or do you have to do a full year?
[08:17:01] <Emufarmers>	Either, I think
[08:17:02] <Juandev>	I have a problem
[08:17:07] <Emufarmers>	Ask away
[08:17:10] <p858snake>	dreamhost should have full year payments
[08:17:12] <Juandev>	I have edited this mw: http://cs.wikiversity.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-subpages
[08:17:47] <Juandev>	but if I set my language to cs, and go to move a page, such as this: http://cs.wikiversity.org/wiki/Speci%C3%A1ln%C3%AD:Movepage/Sny
[08:17:59] <Juandev>	it doesnt respect wikiformat:-(
[08:18:27] <Juandev>	so there is "'''tato funkce nefunguje správně, vizte [[MediaWiki diskuse:Move-subpages|dokumentaci]]'''"
[08:18:33] <Juandev>	whats wrong?
[08:19:07] <needhelp1>	im off
[08:19:09] <needhelp1>	later everyone
[08:19:14] <Juandev>	it means, there should be something wich prevent wikiformat instead
[08:20:03] <Emufarmers>	Not all system messages allow you to use wikitext
[08:20:07] <Emufarmers>	Try HTML instead
[08:20:32] <Juandev>	Emufarmers: well, I set it via bugzilla: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20299
[08:21:02] <Juandev>	and if you have cs language, you can see here wikiformat works: http://cs.wikiversity.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-subpages
[08:21:28] <OverlordQ>	likely the version where it was fixed hasn't been made live yet
[08:21:53] <Juandev>	nice:-) so?
[08:21:54] <Splarka>	checkbox labels shouldn't allow wikicode or html
[08:22:11] <Splarka>	add the link to the text above the move
[08:22:19] <Splarka>	er, the move form
[08:22:27] <Juandev>	Splarka: err?
[08:22:43] <Splarka>	no err, by design
[08:22:51] <Splarka>	click the text "Move subpages (up to 100)"
[08:22:56] <Splarka>	that toggles the checkbox
[08:23:03] <Splarka>	if you have a link in there, it also toggles the checkbox when you click it
[08:23:09] <Splarka>	that is inside a <label>
[08:23:16] <Juandev>	I see
[08:23:17] <Splarka>	so, there should not be links in there
[08:23:18] <OverlordQ>	blame ialex :P
[08:23:30] <Splarka>	(they are allowed in some, which fucks up stuff)
[08:23:33] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: complain on codereview. :D
[08:23:37] <Splarka>	((like in preferences))
[08:23:38] <OverlordQ>	!r 55548
[08:23:38] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/55548
[08:23:41] <Juandev>	Splarka: I didnt knew that. and what about that bug I set?
[08:23:47] <Splarka>	about what?
[08:24:14] <Juandev>	Splarka: as they add wikiformat tu that message
[08:24:17] <Emufarmers>	He added wikitext support for that label; you should probably comment on the revision
[08:24:27] <OverlordQ>	he opened a bug to allow wikitext for that checkbox message it was added in r55548
[08:24:30] <Splarka>	ask for it to be reversed?
[08:24:32] *Splarka 	shrugs
[08:24:37] <Splarka>	whatever
[08:24:42] <Splarka>	not my prob
[08:24:45] <OverlordQ>	lol
[08:24:51] <Splarka>	just sayin, checkbox labels suck with links
[08:25:00] <Splarka>	there is an open bug about it
[08:25:21] *Juandev 	pokes sourcepage
[08:26:13] <Juandev>	well, that is bad. how the poor user should know that it fuck up
[08:26:20] <Juandev>	like me
[08:26:46] <Emufarmers>	Heh, presumably that's why it doesn't allow you to use wikitext: to protect you from yourself :D
[08:27:01] <Juandev>	Emufarmers: thats nice.
[08:27:11] <Splarka>	all messages should allow entities though
[08:27:16] <Juandev>	ok, so the recomendation is to place there such notice
[08:27:21] <Splarka>	it is a royal PITA to add an &nbsp; with firefox
[08:27:45] <Emufarmers>	Splarka: whattaya mean?
[08:27:56] <Splarka>	sigh
[08:28:22] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: some messages escape html entities, so &foo; becomes &amp;foo;
[08:28:37] <Splarka>	Firefox eats nbsp in submitted html forms, so a literal nbsp becomes a regular space
[08:28:44] <Splarka>	so in those messages, you can't add an nbsp with firefox
[08:29:08] <Juandev>	aha, so I can set and info link to mw:movepagetext :-)
[08:29:10] <Emufarmers>	So what do you do?
[08:29:25] <Splarka>	Emufarmers: you don't
[08:29:32] <Splarka>	or get someone with another browser to edit the page
[08:29:42] <Emufarmers>	:v
[08:29:45] <Splarka>	or file a bug to allow entities in the specific message
[08:29:54] <Splarka>	which is why it is a PITA
[08:29:56] <Emufarmers>	om nom nom space
[08:33:20] <Juandev>	one study by errors and thats me
[08:47:06] <Juandev>	Emufarmers: so if I leave the bug, nothing happen than
[08:47:42] <p858snake>	all our bugs are acted on in some say, some just take longer than others
[08:48:10] <p858snake>	and bugs that will never get worked on will get WONTFIX with a reason listed
[08:48:28] <Juandev>	I see
[08:49:22] <Splarka>	or INVALID
[08:49:29] <Juandev>	huh and I wanted to ask for mw:collection for cs.wp - well, well
[08:49:36] <Splarka>	or DERP
[08:49:44] <OverlordQ>	mr derp?
[08:51:06] <p858snake>	Juandev: extenstion requests and such need to be submitted on bugzilla as well
[08:51:44] <Juandev>	yes, hope I will not run another error:-)
[09:19:07] <CIA-70>	03rotem * r55666 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesHe.php: Localization update.
[10:26:17] *Daworm 	waves
[10:52:56] <Reedy>	Does MW support (im not looking to use) a lack of a password? Or does one have to be set?
[10:54:22] <Splarka>	$wgMinimalPasswordLength = 0;  ?
[10:54:30] <Reedy>	Hmm
[10:54:36] <Reedy>	So its possible, but i cant imagine many places using it
[11:28:55] <^demon>	!upgrade
[11:28:55] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[11:41:49] <^demon>	Emufarmers: Ping.
[11:52:53] <^demon>	Heh, using an octal in a string converts it to decimal. Learn something new every day
[11:59:24] <dgts>	how does the while loop in php behave? is any value that is not false evaluated to logically true?
[12:00:42] <^demon>	Yes.
[12:01:19] <^demon>	while( somethingIsTrue() ) { doStuff(); }
[12:01:51] <dgts>	so while(5) would work as well?
[12:02:04] <^demon>	Yes. We use while( true ) {} a lot too
[12:02:12] <dgts>	ok thx
[12:02:21] <^demon>	Making sure to break; somewhere in the loop though :)
[12:03:02] <dgts>	yeah i'm using it with strtok(), seems too verbose to write while($token != false)
[12:03:34] <dgts>	i guess this doesn't expand for empty arrays and such?
[12:05:06] <^demon>	Empty arrays are false. Empty strings are false. 0 is false.
[12:05:09] <^demon>	Weak typing :)
[12:05:35] <dgts>	ok cool, just like in python
[12:06:50] <^demon>	dgts: You'll want to check boolean false with strtok(), so use while( $token !== false )
[12:07:53] <^demon>	http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.strtok.php#function.strtok.notes
[12:08:33] <dgts>	what's the diff.?
[12:08:44] <^demon>	!== and === check type in addition to value.
[12:08:44] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "==".
[12:08:50] <^demon>	Shut up mwbot
[12:09:19] <dgts>	no why would i want to check for bool false?
[12:11:29] <^demon>	Actually you won't, I'm not reading this right.
[12:11:54] <^demon>	It's 8am here and I haven't had breakfast, apologies :)
[12:13:20] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55667 10/branches/new-installer/phase3/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
[12:13:20] <CIA-70>	* Expose $wgSQLiteDataDirMode at install time, use this value when creating directory.
[12:13:20] <CIA-70>	* Normalize SQLite paths using DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR so windows people don't get confused
[12:13:21] <CIA-70>	* Comment out $wgDeletedDirectory until Tim implements this so I can avoid the notices
[12:15:09] <dgts>	^demon, well for advice given in a pre-cerial state you're excused ;)
[12:17:32] <CIA-70>	03shinjiman * r55668 10/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/ (4 files): Localisation updates Cantonese, Chinese and Literary Chinese
[12:34:42] <c3l>	how do I allow a usernamn to have a lowercase first letter in the usernamne?
[12:35:28] <Reedy>	user:blah and user:Blah will work the same
[12:35:47] <c3l>	Reedy: yes, but I want user Blah to appear as blah
[12:35:53] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55669 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/db/DatabaseSqlite.php): (bug 20260) SQLite: don't always autocreate DB and its directory. If the file isn't readable at execution time, we now throw an exception
[12:35:54] <Reedy>	On what?
[12:35:56] <Reedy>	The user page?
[12:36:05] <Raymond_>	c3l: this is not possible
[12:36:16] <c3l>	Reedy: anywhere its shown
[12:36:21] <c3l>	Raymond_: oh okay. ty
[12:37:15] *^demon 	grumbles about bug 13750 eventually being able to fix that :)
[12:48:39] <mindrones>	hello, I have a quick question: is there some parser function or magic magic word to have the numbers of parts in a pagename? Example: applied on page called "Manual/Introduction/Light" it would give me "3". Thanks!
[12:49:06] <mindrones>	tried with http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23titleparts: but it dosn't seem to help
[12:50:41] <mindrones>	I could do with a switch and 25 cases but seems a bit overkill?
[12:53:03] <elSjaako>	couldn't you do a text search on the title, see how many slashes there are?
[12:56:22] <Wabbite>	Does http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Top_level use some extension?
[12:56:38] <Wabbite>	or a template?
[12:57:52] <mindrones>	elSjaako thx, how?
[12:58:35] <c3l>	What are wikibots used for?
[13:03:51] <elSjaako>	mindrones: kind of hackish, but count(explode("/",$title)) might work
[13:05:00] <mindrones>	elSjaako ah you'r doing it at php level, I'm at template level
[13:08:33] <elSjaako>	Then I can't help, sorry
[13:11:23] <elSjaako>	I'm writing an extension that does a edit of the form {subst:stuff} and then tries to load the page (it creates a new page)
[13:11:59] <elSjaako>	It gives me an error that it can't find the page. In other words, the article object needs to reload or something
[13:12:00] <mindrones>	elSjaako no problem thx a lot :) I think I'll do with a switch checking with {{#titleparts:{{PAGENAME}}|1|x}} which x is empty, hope it works :)
[13:12:48] <elSjaako>	I could load the template instead, but I want the <includeonly> and <noinclude>'s to work correctly
[13:12:58] <elSjaako>	any hints?
[13:15:40] <elSjaako>	Wait, I figured out a way that does not involve any bad hacks: I just create a new article object that refers to the same article.
[13:37:36] <^demon>	Hey ialex.
[13:38:20] <ialex>	hi ^demon
[13:38:42] <ialex>	^demon: while you are here, can https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19590 be closed?
[13:39:32] <^demon>	Did we change that to just say database in the msg?
[13:39:43] <ialex>	yes iirc
[13:40:13] <ialex>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=55501
[13:41:15] <^demon>	Ah ok hadn't seen that.
[14:02:40] <javauser>	I started a list with *. How do I break a line while continuing the list? I tried *: but that makes the second block of text a deeper level
[14:04:48] <mindrones>	javauser <br> ?
[14:05:03] <^demon>	You can't skip a line in lists in wikimarkup.
[14:06:47] <Elektryk>	hi, how i can parse the mediawiki code without all mediawiki system? which file must I include and which function must I run?
[14:07:24] <Elektryk>	I writing a script in PHP and I need to get the parsed text
[14:08:53] <javauser>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting I started with *, then I continued with *: It continued the text within the same item, but in a deeper level
[14:09:12] <BryanTM>	WebStart.php and a few other things which I can't remember
[14:09:24] <BryanTM>	look at api.php to see what it does to fire up MediaWiki
[14:09:29] <javauser>	I has a double white space
[14:10:00] <BryanTM>	although maybe the easiest way is to implement it as a maintenance script; look for examples in the maintenance directory
[14:14:36] <Elektryk>	i found a "public function parse" in parse(), maybe it is it?
[14:15:08] <Elektryk>	in parse.php*
[14:18:24] <javauser>	The first item of the list starts like this: "dot      blablablabla over 3 lines". Then I want to add more text, but not in the same paragraph. but *: is producing " (double white space)                             blablablabla"
[14:22:14] <Elektryk>	in which file is defined wfUrlProtocols()?
[14:26:08] <Elektryk>	ok, in GlobalFunctions
[14:31:34] <Elektryk>	"This file is part of MediaWiki, it is not a valid entry point" damn! ;(
[14:31:49] <Mike_lifeguard>	Hello, I want an extension for simple page editing like "echo string >> file" - is that something anyone here would like to take on?
[14:32:16] <Mike_lifeguard>	there is the LogEntry extension, however that is a bit complicated, and brion/trevor don't seem terribly interested in continuing development
[14:32:32] <Mike_lifeguard>	the idea is quite similar though; I suspect it'd provide a good starting point
[14:35:30] <Mike_lifeguard>	This is so we can append lines to a page without sending the whole (very large) page back and forth
[14:56:12] <DeSian>	ani Ex or mode to show the last updated page in wiki in Start_Page?
[14:59:00] <Elektryk>	where is defined constant MEDIAWIKI ?
[14:59:22] <albi_5678>	Hello everybody, does somebody know if the extension WhosOnline is usable with mediawiki 1.15
[15:00:30] <BryanTM>	includes/WebStart.php
[15:00:48] <Elektryk>	thanks
[15:00:53] <^demon>	You need to include WebStart or something. Don't start including random files or you'll probably get it wrong.
[15:01:10] <BryanTM>	yeah WebStart indeed
[15:01:15] <^demon>	Just include WebStart.php and it will setup everything for you.
[15:01:25] <^demon>	Autoloader, Defines, DefaultSettings, GlobalFunctions, etc.
[15:01:53] <Elektryk>	i don't including random files, only these that i know that they are need
[15:02:07] *^demon 	sighs
[15:02:42] <^demon>	I mean you need to come through one of the valid setup points, not trying to just include what you need. Something is bound to not work right if you try the latter approach.
[15:03:11] <^demon>	The setup procedure in MW is very picky about its order.
[15:03:24] <BryanTM>	DeSian: {{Special:RecentChanges/1}}
[15:03:50] <Elektryk>	ok, thanks
[15:04:19] *^demon 	goes off to daydream about a global-free Mediawiki
[15:09:24] <DeSian>	BryanTM, thnx, i mean how do you display so like wikipedia last article in first page
[15:09:36] <Elektryk>	i will better try to run parser using test wiki, not on my project
[15:10:02] <BryanTM>	I have no idea what wikipedia does, but nothing like the last article
[15:14:21] <DeSian>	BryanTM, i'm lloking for sothing like that {{Special:RecentPages/10}}
[15:14:27] <DeSian>	last recent pages
[15:23:22] <DeSian>	or {{Special:Randompage/10}}
[15:23:27] <DeSian>	any idea?
[15:32:07] <ipatrol>	How do you retrieve the wikitext of a page?
[15:32:16] <ipatrol>	With tha API?
[15:33:17] <DeSian>	i found this http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:New_pages but i will display just 10 title , is that possible?
[15:37:41] <jdpond>	werdna: What version were all of the wfElement (wfBuildForm) deprecated?  1.13 timing seems right. Several extensions used it.
[15:42:59] <Elektryk>	where is defined class Title? function Parser need this but i don;t know the structore of this class
[15:45:06] <Elektryk>	ok, in Title.php
[15:50:29] <DeSian>	any idea how to use this http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:New_pages that display the last 10 newpages in wiki?
[16:26:18] <Oi3pRNnX>	Hello, is there possibly can be a way to include mediawiki search inside forum system?
[16:34:56] <Oi3pRNnX>	i'm using phpBB system, is there a way to include mediawiki inside the forum search? 
[16:37:19] <Ou|away>	Oi3pRNnX, use teh API: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Calling_internally
[16:37:46] <Oi3pRNnX>	i'll take a look
[16:37:53] <Oi3pRNnX>	anything i should know of before?
[16:40:24] <Leon__>	hello, im a newby, i recently installed mediawiki 1.15.1 on my server and it seems to work really fine, but when i try to copy a simple template from wikipedia like, template:main, it just does not recognize phaser functions. Then i tested {{#if: | yes | no}} should just give "no", but it gives "{{#if: | yes | no}}"). Is there anything i completely missed to install/enable, is  there a way around?
[16:40:57] <Leon__>	php version: 5.2.9 (cgi-fcgi)
[16:41:13] <Leon__>	mysql version: 5.0.51a-community
[16:42:10] <Leon__>	*parser functions, sry
[16:45:14] <jdpond>	Leon__: you need to install extension parserfunctions
[16:46:41] <Leon__>	thnx, i knew i missed something
[16:49:29] <dgts>	how can i find out in which language the word "category" was used to assign a category to a page? (in order to replace it within the wikitext)
[16:50:37] <dgts>	[[Category:Bla]] and [[Kategorie:Blubb]] (german) both work, but i need to know how to parse this
[16:53:59] <CIA-70>	03happy-melon * r55670 10/USERINFO/happy-melon: Add /USERINFO/happy-melon
[16:54:16] <DeSian_>	any idea how to use this http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:New_pages that display the last 10 newpages in wiki?
[16:57:32] <dgts>	DeSian_, you just add "/10" at the end of the url
[16:58:10] <dgts>	so it would be like http://yourwiki/Special:New_pages/10
[16:58:11] <DeSian_>	dgts, {{Special:NewPages/10}} ?
[17:00:04] <DeSian_>	dgts, problem is just display one title 
[17:00:06] <DeSian_>	http://www.chawg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Taybet:NewPages/10
[17:01:26] <dgts>	well i didn't even know you could use it like that
[17:02:02] <dgts>	oh "taybet" means "special" in your language?
[17:03:22] <dgts>	seems like there's only one page in your wiki
[17:03:52] <DeSian_>	dgts, no 
[17:19:37] <octo>	Hey guys, I'm having a hard time getting the ParserFunctions extension off the ground and hope you can tell me how to debug this further …
[17:20:24] <octo>	Almost all components are from Debian Etch (MediaWiki 1.12.0, PHP 5.2.0-8+etch15), ParserFunctions is from current SVN trunk (Revision 55666)
[17:21:14] <octo>	The extension shows up on Special:Version as “ParserFunctions (Version 1.3.0)” and registers a bunch of parser function hooks (if, ifeq, iferror, ifexist, ifexpr, …)
[17:21:59] <octo>	However, when I add stuff like “{{#if: foo | bar | baz}}” to a page it simply shows up as-is.
[17:22:18] <octo>	Unfortunatly, I didn't find any error or warning message yet.
[17:23:30] <octo>	Hold on, this might actually be the warning I didn't catch earlier:
[17:23:34] <dgts>	so is your extension even being executed?
[17:23:46] <octo>	  [Sat Aug 29 19:21:33 2009] [error] [client […]] "" is not a valid magic thingie for "if", referer: […]
[17:24:02] <OuKB>	octo, trunk extensions are not guaranteed to run with ancient MW versions. 1.12 is obsolete and does not receive security fixes
[17:24:44] <octo>	OuKB: Secutiry fixes are provided by Debian … Unfortunatly there is not a lot of compatibility information on the extensions page
[17:25:06] <octo>	dgts: I think so. It's “required” from the config and I see it in the Special:Version output
[17:26:24] <OuKB>	so ask Debian for PF too
[17:27:28] <dgts>	OuKB, you seem to know things, any idea on my translation problem?
[17:28:00] *OuKB 	strongly doubts he knows enough things
[17:28:36] <dgts>	well i lack the basic understanding of how mediawiki parses the syntax in different languages
[17:29:16] <OuKB>	do you need to know it from your extension (server-side), or from an external tool?
[17:29:26] <dgts>	extension
[17:30:40] <dgts>	i'm replacing occurrences of [[Category:SomeCategory]] with javascript in the edit box.. but sometimes people use translations of "category"
[17:31:32] <GreenReaper>	Check wgContentLanguage?
[17:31:47] <GreenReaper>	If it's something different you could also check for a different word.
[17:31:52] <OuKB>	so you actually need to know it externally
[17:32:20] <dgts>	well the javascript is inserted by my extensions
[17:32:33] <OuKB>	js is not php, you know... http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Query_-_Meta#siteinfo_.2F_si
[17:34:46] <OuKB>	if you are generating the JS dynamically, poke at API code that generates this info - ApiQuerySiteinfo.php
[17:34:59] <dgts>	thx OuKB 
[17:37:47] <Emufarmers>	^demon: pong. o;
[17:48:51] <Oi3pRNnX>	Hello again should i upgrade my mediawiki from 1.14.0 to a newer version? when the support is over for my current release
[17:50:17] <OuKB>	Oi3pRNnX, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle
[17:50:58] <Oi3pRNnX>	Thanks! 
[18:14:06] <octo>	For the record: Downgrading to ParserExtensions from revision 34033 fixed the assumed incompatibility.
[18:14:16] <octo>	dgts, OuKB: Thanks for your help
[18:14:39] <ipatrol>	Could you take this issue to #mediawiki instead?
[18:14:53] *Emufarmers 	pats ipatrol.
[18:15:30] <LauraHale>	What is ipatrol?
[18:15:33] <LauraHale>	Oh
[18:15:34] <LauraHale>	Der.
[18:15:35] <ipatrol>	me
[18:15:54] <LauraHale>	Bad moment where I thought you were a nice nifty edit patroling extension. :)
[18:16:07] <ipatrol>	LOL
[18:16:30] <ialex>	:D
[18:18:34] <ipatrol>	Actually, for a sec I thought this was #wikipedia-en XD
[18:18:51] <LauraHale>	:D
[18:19:32] <maurizio1230>	hi all
[18:19:34] <ipatrol>	I thought the user was in the wrong channel, so I reffered him without checking what channel this was first XD
[18:20:06] <maurizio1230>	I'd like to upgrade from 1.13.5 ti 1.15.1.
[18:20:29] <Emufarmers>	!upgrade | maurizio1230
[18:20:29] --mwbot--	maurizio1230: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[18:22:45] <maurizio1230>	Where can I find the patch for 1.13.5? or have I to upgrade with more than one patch?
[18:24:25] <ialex>	you need to download 1.15.1
[18:24:39] <ialex>	we don't provide patch for major upgrades
[18:24:43] <ialex>	only minor ones
[18:32:31] <maurizio1230>	ialex, I should try to upgrade from 1.13.5 to 1.14.x to 1.15.1 (more patch) ? Is it right?
[18:32:57] <maurizio1230>	can I import articles from 1.13.5 to 1.15.1?
[18:33:31] <Emufarmers>	maurizio1230: have you tried reading the instructions I gave you?
[18:34:03] <maurizio1230>	sorry I was disconnected. Can you give me again?
[18:34:15] <OuKB>	!upgrading
[18:34:15] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading
[18:34:22] <maurizio1230>	now I am on irc software, before I was on cgi one.
[18:49:05] <LauraHale>	That's cool.  Congrats?
[18:49:27] <javauser>	I created a template like this: <span style="text_align: justify;">{{{1}}}</span> saved as template:test. Then I tried to use it with {{test|blablablablabla}} didn't work, missed something
[18:50:13] <javauser>	... overlooked underscore instead of hifen
[18:52:12] <javauser>	and overlooked one more thing, capital letter
[18:52:38] <javauser>	{Test|aaaaaaaa}} works, {{test|aaaaaaaaaa}} doesnt
[19:35:55] <xiong>	me thinks it used to be that when several images were all given in markup, all floated left, that they formed a row -- at least until the right edge of the page was hit -- now it seems that they form a column -- did the coded behavior change or is my mind muddled?
[19:36:50] <Annemarie>	<gallery> has that behavior, sorta.
[19:37:06] <Annemarie>	But I don't think standard image markup really behaves like that.
[19:37:09] <Annemarie>	They usually stack.
[19:38:48] <xiong>	um, floats...
[19:39:33] <DeSian>	what is wrong her http://www.chawg.org/wiki/HTML ? why get to 404 but with http://www.chawg.org/wiki/index.php?title=HTML worked fine? any idea?
[19:40:08] <GreenReaper>	It sounds like you put the index.php in a folder called wiki
[19:40:12] <GreenReaper>	It should be in a folder called w
[19:40:32] <GreenReaper>	and you then have the software point /wiki/ to /w/index.php?title=
[19:40:35] <DeSian>	wiki is installed in wiki/
[19:40:40] <GreenReaper>	OK, don't do that. :-)
[19:41:04] <GreenReaper>	or if you do, you can of course access it via /wiki/index.php
[19:41:10] <GreenReaper>	but that's probably not what you want.
[19:41:22] <GreenReaper>	read http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL
[19:42:08] <DeSian>	and how can i fix it?
[19:42:27] <DeSian>	move wiki to w/
[19:42:31] <DeSian>	?
[19:42:36] <Annemarie>	mv wiki/ w/
[19:43:00] <Annemarie>	And then adjust LocalSettings.php appropriately, yeah.
[19:44:05] <DeSian>	Annemarie, ok yeh
[19:44:09] <DeSian>	:)
[19:47:04] <DeSian>	Annemarie, but the links changed to mydomain.com/mediawiki/w/pagetitle ?
[19:47:27] <Annemarie>	They shouldn't.
[19:47:53] <Annemarie>	If you want to have a Short URL, you put the files in a directory called w/ (or whatever).
[19:48:01] <Annemarie>	And then rewrite /w/index.php?title= to /wiki/$1
[19:48:27] <Annemarie>	The issue you're having is that you're trying to rewrite /wiki/index.php?title= to /wiki/$1 which always breaks shit.
[19:48:51] <DeSian>	also what is now mydomain.com/wiki/ changing to mydomain.com/wiki/w ?
[19:50:40] <xiong>	yah, what is wrong here? when i put thumnails in explicit, float-left divs, i get the expected display: rows first, then columns -- but a succession of left thumbs just makes a single column -- i don't remember things being this way before
[19:52:22] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/w/index.php?title=Shop:Whatzit&action=history
[19:53:26] <DeSian>	Annemarie, domain.com/w/ redirect to /wiki directory with Error 404?
[19:54:22] <DeSian>	http://www.chawg.org/w
[19:54:55] <Annemarie>	http://www.chawg.org/w/index.php?title=%D8%AF%DB%95%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%BE%DB%8E%DA%A9 works
[19:55:14] <Annemarie>	You want to redirect "/w/index.php?title=" to "/wiki/$1"
[19:55:28] <Annemarie>	Not just the "w" part.
[19:55:51] <DeSian>	where?
[19:56:48] <DeSian>	wiki installed in /w
[19:56:55] <DeSian>	no more in wiki/
[19:56:58] <Annemarie>	Right.
[19:57:29] <DeSian>	and "$wgScriptPath       = "/w"; " now
[20:00:08] <Annemarie>	$wgArticlePath          = "/wiki/$1"; too. And fix your rewrite rules.
[20:02:16] <DeSian>	Annemarie, http://www.chawg.org/wiki/%D8%AF%DB%95%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%BE%DB%8E%DA%A9
[20:03:25] <Annemarie>	Yes, fix your rewrite rules.
[20:03:37] <DeSian>	i didn't use .htaccess file in wiki?
[20:03:42] <DeSian>	what you mean?
[20:04:37] <Annemarie>	What are you trying to do?
[20:04:46] <DeSian>	:D
[20:05:09] <DeSian>	the link was shit every time with index.php?title= blabla
[20:05:27] <DeSian>	want to be default /wiki/Pagetitle
[20:05:28] <Annemarie>	If you want to change the URL, you need to use .htaccess or some other form of RewriteRule.
[20:05:45] <Annemarie>	So change your .htaccess file to redirect "/w/index.php?title=" to "/wiki/$1"
[20:05:49] <Annemarie>	It's not that complicated.
[20:06:10] <DeSian>	why is overall worked without .htaccess?
[20:06:21] <DeSian>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL
[20:07:29] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/w/index.php?title=Shop:Whatzit&action=history
[20:07:40] <xiong>	i expect both pages to render the same
[20:08:38] <DeSian>	Annemarie, my orginal is http://www.chawg.org/wiki/index.php?title=HTML and wnat to have http://www.chawg.org/wiki/HTML without .htaccess file, if that possible?
[20:08:53] <Annemarie>	I don't have time for this.
[20:09:00] <Annemarie>	I've said it like ten times. Re-read scrollback.
[20:09:36] <DeSian>	Annemarie, yes but dosn't worked for me, thatswhy i ask again
[20:10:24] <Annemarie>	Not /wiki/index.php Not, not, not.
[20:10:52] <Annemarie>	It's /w/index.php
[20:11:40] <DeSian>	ok
[20:13:33] <DeSian>	true but still have 404 http://www.chawg.org/w
[20:14:56] <CIA-70>	03siebrand * r55671 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/Okawix/Okawix-dtd.php: Write export wiki in header
[20:17:26] <CIA-70>	03siebrand * r55672 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/Okawix/Okawix-dtd.php: Add "global $wgSitename;"
[20:18:54] <DeSian>	Annemarie, srry i read the http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL 3 times is the same
[20:35:03] <Bryan>	do we have a magic word to set the thumbnail size in categories?
[20:38:18] <xiong>	did image floating behavior change recently -- within the last year?
[20:39:50] <DeSian>	Annemarie, know is fixed thnx again
[20:41:01] <DeSian>	now*
[21:00:37] <Zyabandr>	hi everybody:)
[21:01:40] <Zyabandr>	Can anyone help with Semantic Forms extension please? I've got quite a few questions..
[21:04:11] <jdpond>	Zyabandr: You probably want #semanticmediawiki
[21:04:41] <jdpond>	Zyabandr: However, I'm working on it right now - will switch over there with you.
[21:05:04] <Zyabandr>	all righty)
[21:05:06] <Zyabandr>	thx
[21:39:40] <verve_>	hey i have a question related to uploading files to MW
[21:40:20] <verve_>	has anyone come up with a script (js, etc) or extension that allows easier uploading of files or attaching a file directly to an article?
[21:40:29] <verve_>	(a little like pmwiki or xwiki)
[21:42:54] <GreenReaper>	Have you checked the extension matrix?
[21:43:04] <GreenReaper>	I would think it would be on there if anyone had.
[21:50:10] <verve_>	yeah, nothing there, thanks tho
[21:51:34] <verve_>	i know someone has delt with this before...i just need to find somone who has written the script!
[22:12:51] <CIA-70>	03demon * r55673 10/USERINFO/ (happy-melon nephele): eol-style
[22:22:34] <p858snake>	GreenReaper: te matrix outdate iirc
[22:22:37] <javauser>	http://blog.wikidot.com/blog:performance-problems-update Instead of changing the way we cache and render pages, our new architecture adds a new front layer of static HTML that mirrors every single page. What's different in mediawiki? I've never seen a wikipedia article lag or wikipedia go down due to too much traffic
[22:22:45] <p858snake>	*the
[22:24:01] <cirwin>	javauser: wikipedia uses squid caches to serve pages where possible, which is the same basic idea, just have a static copy somewhere quick
[22:24:35] <cirwin>	internally it also uses memcache for caching bits of pages and other small useful things, so that the database load is kept low
[22:25:50] <Splarka>	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/MediaWiki-render-flowchart.svg/890px-MediaWiki-render-flowchart.svg.png
[22:26:43] <verve_>	hey i have a question related to uploading files to MW -- has anyone come up with a script (js, etc) or extension that allows easier uploading of files (in one step instead of 5) or attaching a file directly to an article? (a little like pmwiki or xwiki -- I think wikia is adding this function too)
[22:27:07] <cirwin>	verve_: have you seen the pywikipedia framework?
[22:27:11] <Splarka>	wikia can do the second part, but not the first
[22:27:32] <Splarka>	browsers do not allow batch file selection, for security reasons, each file has to be manually browsed or path copy-pasted by user
[22:27:40] <verve_>	no, **googling for it now**
[22:28:34] <javauser>	I like photobucket way of uploading, SHIFT + Select all at once
[22:28:36] <Splarka>	there are 3 solutions, a non-browser bot/script like pywikipediabot or similar, /maintenance/importImages.php, or reduce browser security X_X
[22:29:26] <Splarka>	ew, that uses flash doesn't it?
[22:30:19] <verve_>	cirwin - is pywikipeida  server side or client side?
[22:30:34] <cirwin>	verve_: it uses the server's api, but you run the client locally
[22:30:36] <javauser>	I think yes, flash
[22:30:41] <cirwin>	!api
[22:30:41] --mwbot--	The MediaWiki API provides direct, high-level access to the data contained in the MediaWiki databases. Client programs should be able to use the API to login, get data, and post changes. Find out more at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API>. For client libraries in various languages, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code>.
[22:30:55] <Splarka>	the API doesn't have upload functionality in any release yet
[22:31:31] <Splarka>	so pywikipedia upload would have to use the UI anyway
[22:32:10] <Splarka>	hmm, actually, in 1.16, it should be possible to upload-by-url by batch javascript
[22:32:35] <Splarka>	so if you gave a javascript a list of remote files accessable to the web, it could work
[22:33:11] <xiong>	did image floating behavior change recently -- within the last year?
[22:33:11] <verve_>	splarka - is Manual:ImportImages.php stable?  on the bottom of the page on meta.wikipedia is has a link to the unstable extension (here - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialUploadLocal )
[22:33:19] <xiong>	http://beyondeuclid.com/w/index.php?title=Shop:Whatzit&action=history
[22:33:28] <xiong>	i expect floats to be the same
[22:33:33] <MrZ-man>	when people talk about screen-scraping bots, they're typically referring to pywikipedia
[22:34:28] <Splarka>	verve_: the maintenance script should be stable as it is part of the core software and many have used it, third party extensions are iffy
[22:34:52] <Splarka>	xiong: IIRC there a change for right floating, maybe?
[22:35:00] *Splarka 	checks
[22:35:17] <verve_>	cirwin - do you have to run the client locally or can you just use the server side?
[22:35:45] <cirwin>	you can run the cient from anywhere
[22:36:05] <Splarka>	has to run wherever the images are, heh
[22:36:13] <Splarka>	but if you're gonna run it on the server, might as well use the import script
[22:36:25] <verve_>	cirwin - no i mean, can you use the py framework without having users run any client side mod?
[22:36:31] <cirwin>	no
[22:36:35] <verve_>	gotcha
[22:36:35] <verve_>	thanks
[22:37:17] <verve_>	i work for nasa in MD and we are setting up a mediawiki install for knowledge management, and i want to make it easy for people to upload PDFs and the such -- otherwise I dont think people will do it
[22:37:32] <verve_>	im just looking for a way to streamline the fileuploading process
[22:38:25] <Splarka>	hmm, yah, no good way to do that for all users
[22:38:38] <Splarka>	though you could have an FTP server and periodic automated crons of importImages.php
[22:39:14] <verve_>	can you have event based crons instead of timer based crons?
[22:39:28] <verve_>	like: if a new file is in this directory, run a script?
[22:39:41] <Splarka>	well, it wouldn't be part of mediawiki
[22:39:51] <verve_>	i guess i just could have another script on the server always watching for a new file and run it instead of importImages.php
[22:39:55] <verve_>	yeah, exactly
[22:40:04] <Splarka>	heh, have a time based cron check for new files
[22:40:10] <Splarka>	what does Nasa do in MD?
[22:40:55] <verve_>	We build earth/space science satellites, mostly in low earth orbit ---    I work here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSFC
[22:41:38] <xiong>	splarka it seems as if both right and left floats don't go quite as i remember
[22:42:28] <xiong>	the div float works differently from the image float
[22:42:37] <Splarka>	xiong: oop, forgot to check, checking
[22:42:37] <xiong>	that's not how it was!
[22:43:49] <Splarka>	damn
[22:43:51] <Splarka>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/17986
[22:44:03] <Splarka>	I remember this change, but thought it was last year, not 3 years ago
[22:44:05] *Splarka 	getting old
[22:44:14] <Splarka>	that's the only change to floating of recent
[22:45:25] <xiong>	it might even be an improvement in most cases but it took me by surprise
[22:45:38] <Splarka>	the rest of the float code is older than that change
[22:45:41] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/skins/monobook/main.css?view=annotate
[22:46:32] <Splarka>	verve_: install mediawiki on a satellite secretly sometime
[22:46:39] <Splarka>	hint hint
[22:47:04] <verve_>	haha
[22:47:25] <verve_>	i dont think we have enough space free for that
[22:47:45] <verve_>	and if it was the moon, the latency would be 1 second round trip - no one would wait for that!!!!
[22:47:56] <xiong>	Splarka, that's the issue, for me -- i can't actually remember the last time i depended on images floating horizontally but i'm sure, today, that's what i expected -- as i said, probably better to stack vertically in most cases; i just need to adapt -- thanks for checking, i thought it might be an operator earphone short
[22:48:02] <Splarka>	must be annoying to have to do a decade of preplanning, so all your computer technology goes through a few generations of improvement before launch
[22:48:14] <Splarka>	er, is passed up by
[22:48:16] <xiong>	Splarka++
[22:48:37] <Splarka>	xiong: you can always just do it manually if you want
[22:48:42] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Double_image
[22:48:57] <Splarka>	a table or wrapper div or such
[22:51:22] <verve_>	sp - exactly -- for example, up until about 5 years ago, the hubble had the equivalent to a 386 onboard (a servicing mission upgraded it to a 486 equivalent processing since then)
[22:51:26] <xiong>	Splarka, you didn't take a close look at the link i gave; that's okay -- but that's how i got the results i wanted -- i was just taken by surprise
[22:51:40] <xiong>	gtg, beat the street, eat the meat
[22:51:42] <Splarka>	xiong: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r17/cutlass421/tldr.jpg
[22:53:27] <Splarka>	verve_: a friend of mine wrote software (ground based) for Envisat >_<... 
[22:53:53] <Splarka>	crazy ESA
[22:54:21] <verve_>	thats cool
[22:54:45] <Splarka>	talk about "eggs in one basket", spent like 10 years building it for 10 billion dollars, and at the time, the Ariane 5 rocket had a 40% success rate (for 5 launches)
[22:54:47] <verve_>	looks like they just extended the mission until 2013
[22:54:55] <verve_>	haha
[22:54:58] <Splarka>	so nobody even bothered holding a launch party
[22:55:02] <verve_>	yeah, crazy to bet that on it
[22:55:21] <verve_>	are you in MD or no?
[22:55:25] <Splarka>	nein, California
[23:05:15] <CIA-70>	03conrad * r55674 10/trunk/extensions/Transliterator/Transliterator.php: Remove requirement for a non-positional to activate a positional rule.
[23:08:53] <verve_>	well, splarka, do you code or just contrib to WP?
[23:20:02] <Splarka>	verve_: neither
[23:20:30] <Splarka>	I came here for help, and never got any, still waiting!
[23:20:43] <verve_>	haha
[23:20:45] <verve_>	gotcha
[23:20:57] <verve_>	do you chat on here often?
[23:21:00] <Splarka>	and I write annoying javascript: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/User:Splarka/
[23:21:01] <verve_>	i might start using it more often
[23:21:58] <Splarka>	but with jQuery coming soon I'll be obsolete, like that episode of the Twilight Zone with Burgess Meredith
[23:22:08] <jdpond>	Splarka: and source of one of my favorite quotes:  "Collaborative Development -  Murphy's Law meets Whack-a-Mole" -- Splarka
[23:22:15] <Splarka>	(not the one with the printer or the one with the glasses)
[23:22:38] <cirwin>	Splarka: how soon is soon, do you know yet?
[23:22:53] <Splarka>	ask Tim
[23:23:19] <Splarka>	actually, at this rate, 1.16 won't have the new upload branch
[23:23:30] <CIA-70>	03tparscal * r55675 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/js/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fixed the TOC level algorithm so that heading levels that go from 1 to 3 (or more) to 1 don't break things. Basically we just enforce a minimum value of 1.
[23:23:33] <Splarka>	he did 1.15 from current deployment, because scap was taking forever
[23:23:46] <Splarka>	(er, current at the time)
[23:24:12] <cirwin>	ah well, I'm assuming that the presence of jQuery won't break the code that's already in existence?
[23:24:47] <Splarka>	it breaks some
[23:24:53] <Splarka>	like mwsuggest on Opera 8
[23:25:12] <Splarka>	well, actually it breaks Opera 8, you can't even log in
[23:25:17] <cirwin>	heh
[23:25:23] <Splarka>	because O8 doesn't support getElementByID on a <form>
[23:25:40] <cirwin>	opera 8 isn't top on my priority list :)
[23:26:50] <Splarka>	it also slows stuff down
[23:26:54] <Splarka>	like page loading
[23:27:07] <cirwin>	well, now would be the time to ajax-ify it
[23:27:22] <Splarka>	and slow it down even more, yah
[23:27:31] <Splarka>	call me crazy, but I like pages to load fast
[23:27:37] *cirwin 	too
[23:27:50] <Splarka>	if mediawiki ditched all the <script>s it would be incredibly fast
[23:28:02] <Splarka>	in serialized browsers anyway
[23:28:13] <cirwin>	well, there's a lot that it really doesn't need 99% of the time
[23:28:59] <jdpond>	Where can I look for info on the upload branch?
[23:29:01] <Splarka>	like jquery ^_^
[23:29:17] <Splarka>	jdpond: it is merged in trunk now, eh, so... mdale's brain?
[23:29:21] <cirwin>	:)
[23:29:50] <Splarka>	I mean, looking at the branch, you'll find it very outdated for all the fixes since it was merged
[23:30:03] <Splarka>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/new-upload/
[23:30:24] <Splarka>	hmm, unless he's kept it up, that's a possibility
[23:31:05] <jdpond>	was hoping the upload was a drag and drop interface for images/files/....
[23:31:22] <p858snake>	can't do that without flash
[23:31:32] <p858snake>	and flash is not opensource so its never going to happen
[23:31:37] <Splarka>	indeedy
[23:31:39] <Splarka>	well
[23:31:43] <Splarka>	you could do that for files on the web
[23:32:02] <Splarka>	mediawiki could curl to your facebook, grab all the thumbnails, present them in a drag/drop UI in ajax
[23:32:04] *Splarka 	barfs
[23:32:24] *jdpond 	gagging too
[23:34:25] *jdpond 	trying to avoid dumping wheelbarrows full of cash into SharePoint - only unsurmountable argument is ease of doc upload.  Can't convince that users should be avoiding MSWord docs to start with.
[23:34:31] <roberthl>	Couldn't you do it with Java?
[23:34:31] <CIA-70>	03tparscal * r55676 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/ (main-ltr.css main-rtl.css): Added font size for simple search label - this broke cause of the other font sizing changes that have been made recently (r55333).
[23:35:27] <jdpond>	is possible, just was hoping someone else would do the work before I had to.
[23:35:31] <jdpond>	http://www.webreference.com/programming/javascript/mk/column2/
[23:37:03] <roberthl>	Plenty of Java applets exist for the purpose of file upload, I don't know of any specific to MediaWiki though - I can't imagine it would be difficult though if you could find someone with the right experience.
[23:37:20] <jdpond>	agreed
[23:38:49] <roberthl>	That link is pretty irrelevant in this context though, JavaScript isn't to my knowlege capable of doing this on its own.  I suppose you could link it to a Java object, but that seems pointless since you need the Java running anyway.
[23:40:38] <jdpond>	oops - http://straxus.javadevelopersjournal.com/creating_a_mozillafirefox_drag_and_drop_file_upload_script_p.htm
[23:42:48] <roberthl>	Oh, that looks interesting.  Although the lack of cross browser support would rule that out in any normal environment to be honest.
[23:43:05] <roberthl>	Would be cool in conjunction with a fallback Java object though actually.
[23:43:57] <jdpond>	I just pulled up the first couple I found - would have to have browser sensitivity though.  I've actually implemented javascript one for another upload app.
[23:53:53] <javauser>	Seems that refreshing a page that use a template isn't reflecting the template changes unless I resave it. Is that mediawiki or just the wiki farm I'm hosted at?
[23:55:03] <roberthl>	It is one of MediaWiki's caches.
[23:55:43] <roberthl>	You need to append &action=purge to the URL (or ?action=purge if you're using short URLs) to make the page using the template update.
[23:55:52] <javauser>	what do I do if 100 pages use the same template? use a bot to refresh all?
[23:56:09] <roberthl>	Theoretically it should eventually be automatically purged by the job queue.
[23:56:34] <javauser>	so, it's automatic but not realtime?
[23:56:46] <roberthl>	Should be automatic, yes.
[23:57:25] <Emufarmers>	I don't believe purging will do it; only null editing.
[23:58:22] <javauser>	both worked on wikia
[23:58:23] *roberthl 	thought that bug was fixed.
[23:59:34] <Emufarmers>	Cool, then. :)