translatewiki.net - Recent changes [en]

[00:02:25] 03(mod) Add "hide placeholder" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20290 (10JSchulz_4587) [00:40:26] 03(mod) Add "hide placeholder" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20290 (10jayvdb) [01:04:02] 03(mod) Do not put "diff generator" comments into feeds - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20601 (10jidanni) [01:04:12] can someone tell me why my wiki pages dont parse {{ .. does that require an extension? [01:04:50] 03(mod) Do not put "diff generator" comments into feeds - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20601 +patch (10jidanni) [01:09:57] Hoosie: {{templatename}} shoul work on all wikis [01:10:06] {{#parserfunctionname}} requires parser functions [01:12:37] for example: http://www.umheadquarters.com/index.php?title=Template:Mbox [01:12:47] why is it showing the {{ instead of parsing it [01:13:31] hello room! can anyone help with the MediaWiki license? Specifically, what is considered commercial? [01:14:19] The MediaWiki license doesn't care about commerciality. [01:14:21] When you say "the MediaWiki license", do you mean the license on the software, or on the material in a wiki? [01:14:37] (the code, or the text?) [01:14:39] You're free to use it for commercial or noncommercial purposes, provided you comply with the terms of the GPL (usually only an issue if you redistribute it). [01:14:49] Yeah, that's MW itself, not any particular wiki's content. [01:15:16] I mean the software license, as in http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/ [01:15:33] Hoosie: because you don't have all the templates that wikipedia does [01:15:35] MediaWiki doesn't use by-nc-nd. [01:15:41] It's GPL. [01:15:44] The definition of "commercial" for that license is in the license code beneath, but what AryehGregor said. [01:15:49] I'd generally advise against copying templates from there, they are grossly over-engineered [01:15:55] I just installed it, and that's where it links to [01:16:00] Nothing on any Wikimedia wiki is by-nc-nd, that's a non-free license. [01:16:03] darnit !!! [01:16:04] That's because you selected that license for the content. [01:16:07] Gutza, no it doesn't. [01:16:13] Not for the wiki itself. [01:16:16] well message boxes are hard for me to understand [01:16:22] (do we allow users to select non-free CC licenses on install?) [01:16:32] Content can be under any license at all [01:16:32] . [01:16:34] It indicates, to readers, that the content is licensed under that. [01:16:38] AryehGregor, sorry, i forgot again to look at the DM/MG for D&D3 to find the hitpoints of the tarask :p [01:16:39] but thanks [01:16:39] Don't see why not, AryehGregor [01:16:54] GreenReaper, well, either we do or we don't. I dunno. [01:17:06] Although "nd" is interesting considering it's a wiki [01:17:14] Every work would be derivative [01:17:19] Alphos, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm [01:17:28] You're right, my bad -- the software is indeed GPL, as per http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_does_MediaWiki_work%3F [01:17:29] Every edit, rather. [01:17:31] Alphos, only 858 HP. [01:17:34] meh [01:17:37] a rookie :p [01:17:57] Thank you for resisting :) [01:18:19] "Resist! Resist! Humanity demands it!" [01:18:36] Cheers! [01:20:18] GreenReaper, it seems like we only allow GFDL 1.2, GFDL 1.3, and PD on install, from glancing at the source. [01:20:28] Well, that's really silly. [01:20:38] Especially since Wikipedia doesn't even use it anymore. [01:20:42] Especially since none of those is really Wikipedia-compatible anymore. [01:20:43] Yeah. [01:20:53] Perhaps that would be something to change for 1.16. [01:24:27] !bestcase [01:24:27] --mwbot-- You create a wiki as popular as Wikipedia, with an Adsense clickthrough rate above 99%. And you get laid. [01:24:53] !worstcase [01:24:53] --mwbot-- Generally, the worst that can happen is that someone compromises your site, steals your data, deletes it and replaces it with kiddy porn. Then they start a spam service on your server advertising the kiddy porn to twenty million email addresses, daily. Then your home gets raided, you get fired and your wife leaves you. Then you get killed in your sleep by ninjas. [01:24:57] wern't they updated..... [01:25:04] might be in the new installer branch [01:27:28] is mediawiki the only wiki engine with dynamic transclude? {{template|param1}} [01:28:02] That's assuming your wiki isn't kiddy porn to start with. Got to account for the edge cases. [01:28:19] exercicios: Probably not. [01:29:19] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software might be useful but it doesn't seem like it has that listed. [01:40:18] Salut à tous ! [01:40:33] Est-ce que quelqu'un à déjà utilisé l'API Mediawiki par ici ? [01:41:37] English channel ? [01:41:46] Oui. [01:42:11] "Oui" à quoi ? English ? [01:42:12] There are probably people who have; some might even have helped write it. [01:42:15] well, or at least if there is not someone who speaks your language and you can try english, you may get an answer sooner [01:42:52] Okay, sorry. So I just have a problem when I use the API with cURL in PHP [01:43:13] (no need to apologize, I am sorry I cannot respond in your language). ok... [01:43:19] so what happens? [01:44:33] No problem with little amount of data. But when I try to send too many data, an error occured... [01:45:29] << Wikimedia Foundation, Error : Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem [...] >> [01:46:22] what is the query, if you don't mind? [01:48:36] Action=edit. I've fill in correctly the fields title, text, token, summary, basetimestamp, starttimestamp, md5 and section.... More information needed ? [01:48:57] two things [01:49:16] one, have you tried from curl from the command line (without php)? [01:49:48] two, I guess I would want all of the parameters (you could pastebin it) if the command line doesn't work either [01:51:49] No for "one". Hum... how to access directly to the command line :s ? [01:52:45] what is your operating system? [01:52:53] Windows XP [01:52:56] (if it's windows I'm out, stricly a linux nerd here) [01:52:58] ah [01:53:00] xD [01:53:17] well I am sure there is curl in some sort of executable form and I'm equally sure I have no idea about it :-D [01:53:57] next thing you might do though, you are adding a bunch of text to a page in your edit I guess? [01:54:24] Don't worry, no problem to go to the command line with WIndows ^^ But I use cURL with the extension (.dll) ... so. [01:55:01] Adding a bunch of text ? [01:55:19] well what is your edit, that it has a lot of data? that's what I mean [01:56:15] Yep, i have not problem with little data, just whit a lot of data. [01:56:27] with* [01:56:40] so if you split the data into a few chunks does it go in? [01:57:41] I think so. But it fills the history page and overloading the server unnecessarily, isn't it ? [01:58:01] yes, it would be less desirable [01:58:38] have you tried it yet? I would try splitting into two chunks and see if they both go in ok, on a given page [01:59:05] also I wonder how big these chunks are [02:00:32] So, i've not problem with this (http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mod%C3%A8le:Bac_%C3%A0_sable&diff=44404071&oldid=44169321) and this (http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moutarde_%28couleur%29&diff=44377197&oldid=44376976) [02:01:21] But I Can't send this amount of data : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Safran_%28%C3%A9pice%29&action=edit§ion=10 [02:02:40] that is not very much actually [02:03:37] :s [02:04:37] So... no solution ? [02:04:48] ok, what does the code look like? [02:05:16] 03(mod) Add "hide placeholder" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20290 (10FT2.wiki) [02:06:39] After the connexion and the obtainement of information, the code look like that : [02:06:48] curl_setopt($this->curl, CURLOPT_URL, 'http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=edit&format=php'); [02:06:59] curl_setopt($this->curl, CURLOPT_POST, true); [02:07:07] curl_setopt($this->curl, CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS, http_build_query($list_fields)); [02:07:46] 03churchofemacs * r56251 10/trunk/phase3/ (7 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed) [02:07:46] Creating new function wgOutput->showLogs and including new information on viewing non-existant user pages. In detail: [02:07:46] Instead of copy&pasting the code in different files, there is now one function for showing logs. [02:07:46] This function is currently used for: [02:07:46] * Article and EditPage: Show deletion / move log [02:07:50] * Article: Show rename log on user(talk)pages (NEW in this revision) [02:07:52] * SpecialContributions: Show block log for blocked users [02:08:18] uh, sorry for the long message [02:08:35] dude if there is really justs one function now I forgive you the message. you can put ten of em in [02:10:46] That's doesn't work with a minimal code.... so curl_connect -> curl_setopt -> curl_exec doesn't work... [02:13:05] Okay, it's 4:12 AM in my timezone... enough coding for this night, I'm going to sleep. If my code sets MediaWiki on fire or breaks anything, just revert me ;) [02:13:20] Me too [02:13:24] night, churchy [02:13:32] So no solution ^^ Thx for help [02:13:41] Bvs-aca: don't know from just looking at it [02:13:48] gn8 apergos, Bvs-aca & others [02:13:57] I'd have to test it :-P [02:13:59] but I don't see something obvious [02:14:27] no problem, i search since one week >< [02:14:47] so good night ;) ! [02:14:53] goodnight [02:22:18] 03(mod) User Will Not stayed logged in on HughesNet - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17790 (10herd) [02:37:31] 03(mod) Please enable variant ShortURLs for Chinese Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19019 (10PhiLiP.NPC) [02:38:16] apergos: question for you [02:38:29] hello? [02:38:32] hi :) [02:38:34] I did so well on the last one :-/ [02:38:56] edit summaries are taking strings like & and saving as & [02:39:04] that works for any such encoded char [02:39:14] that is incorrect behavior, right [02:39:44] so the bad news is I know there was a previous discussion about this and [02:39:52] This was debated. [02:39:52] I do not remember what was said :-( [02:39:56] my mind must be going [02:39:59] Annemarie: its breaking the abuse filter [02:40:01] It was AryehGregor's change, I think. [02:40:06] oh crapola [02:40:18] the abusefilter runs before the encoding [02:40:25] so the abusefilter sees & [02:40:31] even though the summary is & [02:40:37] No, the summary is &. [02:40:49] It just displays as & because that's how HTML works. [02:41:10] Formerly we'd HTML-escape entities, but I determined that was causing more errors than it prevented, so we changed things, IIRC. [02:41:25] well that isn't good because people can do "FUCKING HERMAPHRODITE" and you can't block that [02:41:36] AryehGregor: does that mean html entities are allowed in all system messages yet? [02:41:48] Splarka, doubt it. [02:41:55] well, they should be >_< [02:42:09] Prodego, then maybe AbuseFilter should translate the entities for you. File a bug against that. [02:42:15] why doesnt the antispoof piece get that? [02:42:15] That's a reasonable point. [02:42:18] instead, the french open a bug "allow html entities in MediaWiki:suchandsuch, we need an nbsp there!" [02:42:18] ccnorm I mean [02:42:25] AryehGregor: I'm trying to figure out whether mediawiki or the filter is broken [02:42:38] Splarka, some system messages aren't output to HTML. Some are plaintext, for instance. [02:42:38] that you don't get out what you put in seems to indicate mediawiki [02:42:46] especially since it doesn't do the same thing in edits [02:43:02] Prodego, you do get out what you put in, as far as I understand your description. It sounds like an AbuseFilter issue, but I haven't actually investigated. [02:43:07] hi, is there some easy way to test if email is working with my new mediawiki installation? [02:43:14] AryehGregor: I could just show you what I am talking about [02:43:19] AryehGregor: everything is output to html in the UI, at some point... some system messages intentionally escape entities though, at least that is the behavior the end user sees [02:43:22] Nah, I'm about to go to bed. [02:43:48] Splarka, some messages are used, e.g., for e-mail. . . . although if you're doing that, it doesn't make a lot of sense to HTML-escape. [02:44:03] AryehGregor: well if you change your mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Prodego/Sandbox&curid=23474310&diff=313490896&oldid=313075322 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/examine/322464198 [02:44:14] if you look at the 'summary' section in each, they are inconsistant [02:44:16] Splarka, I don't know why we'd ever HTML-escape a message without excepting entities. [02:44:27] *Splarka shrugs [02:44:32] colon-separator is a recent example [02:44:39] the damn french wanted an and couldn't [02:44:46] (until it was fixed) [02:44:55] Prodego, AbuseFilter looks like it's not filtering the summary the same way as core code. That's the fault of AbuseFilter AFAICT. [02:45:13] ok, I'll tell wernda then [02:45:30] the summary gets filtered differently? [02:45:32] now that's weird [02:45:42] No, not really. [02:45:49] no? [02:45:50] apergos: summaries seem to get handled differently than everything else by mediawiki [02:45:57] as far as entity processing it is [02:45:59] custom parser, heh [02:46:01] if you put & in the text area, you get & [02:46:06] you don't get & [02:46:14] Wait, you do? [02:46:18] but it deals with wikilinks and [02:46:20] I thought the point was you get &. [02:46:23] :D [02:46:40] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ExpandTemplates?contexttitle=%22%27%26&input=%7B%7BPAGENAME%7D%7D%0D%0A&removecomments=1&generate_xml=1 [02:46:47] -> "'& [02:47:14] AryehGregor: see: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Prodego/Sandbox&diff=313493059&oldid=313490896 [02:47:15] if you wanna compare those in {{#ifeq:{{PAGENAME}} ... ya gotta use the entities [02:47:33] Prodego, what's that supposed to prove? [02:47:55] AryehGregor: you save & as a edit you get & and as a summary you don't [02:48:21] now, that & on the page is RENDERED as a & [02:48:38] yeah we don't care how it's rendered [02:48:46] we just care what abusefilter sees [02:48:47] Prodego, no. You save &, and in both cases you get & stored in the database. On article edit it's exposed as &, on article view it's left alone and so is displayed as &. On edit summary view it's left alone and so is displayed as &, and there is no edit summary editing. So the behavior is consistent here. [02:48:48] its similar for summaries but there is no unrendered version [02:48:58] Correct. [02:49:09] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=revisions&revids=313490896 [02:49:10] Or, rather, there is: it's what you initially type in the edit summary box. [02:49:13] [02:49:28] all righty then [02:49:34] Splarka: which is what the abuse filter sees too [02:49:45] the problem is its inconsistant [02:49:53] well, bad example as that is xml encoded... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=revisions&revids=313490896&format=jsonfm -> "comment": "&" [02:50:26] the spam blacklist used to look at the wikicode, this allowed http://viagra.com to bypass it [02:50:55] now it looks at a later parsing pass, this allows {{#ifeq:{{CURRENTHOUR}}|7||http://viagra.com}} to bypass it [02:50:58] the spam blacklist has lots of stuff like that :\ [02:51:08] *Prodego waits for werdna then [02:51:12] you'll have problems either way [02:51:16] unless you do both, I suppose [02:51:32] sweet [02:52:49] this is actually a feature request [02:52:57] I think wernda is the right way to go [02:52:59] what are the dependencies for basic email functionality in mediawiki? [02:53:06] on linux [02:53:15] because if you put & in a wiki page you would want the abuse filter to know it is an & [02:53:51] [comment] => & [02:54:00] that's what I get back when I ask for txt format from api.php [02:54:07] just so yas know [02:54:16] yah, the api gives you unparsed [02:54:26] there is an open bug to give you parsed (on request) [02:57:34] well I just did a test [02:57:44] abusefilter out of svn sees the summary I put in [02:58:24] this is a ... & [02:58:58] exactly like that when it goes to do its comparisons [02:59:05] (on my local install) [02:59:43] let me see what it does if I put in & [02:59:53] so... does abuse filter catch html entity encoded naughtiness in the textarea? [03:00:52] when I pput this into the summary: 'this is an & with amp.' [03:01:04] &$referencing comments is evil :p [03:01:18] nighty everyone ! [03:01:31] it saw: exactly that [03:01:41] I should see if ccnorm does entity conversion [03:01:51] Alphos: :-P [03:01:53] night [03:05:14] ok I put the rule "&" == ccnorm(summary)... [03:05:30] now I'll put & by itself in the summary and see if it's caught [03:05:38] then we'll se what my dump output looks like [03:05:44] drumroll please. [03:05:47] Splarka: the abusefilter sees the state of the page before signatures and templates are expanded [03:06:37] it sees the raw page, meaning that it would not see & if you put in & (besides the & that & contains of course :P) [03:06:45] didn't catch it and [03:06:51] okay, so if I spam a page with penis and abusefilter is looking for "penis" will it catch it? [03:06:59] Splarka: no [03:07:08] I sent werdna a pm to fix it [03:07:13] or 'change' it really [03:07:18] since it isn't borken per se [03:07:18] well at least it is consistent, heh [03:07:24] broken* [03:07:25] ahh, you did say it is a feature request, right [03:07:31] *Splarka gives apergos a cookie [03:07:39] it is now [03:07:49] it started as a bug, but really it is a feature request :) [03:08:09] a fairly important one since it is actively being abused [03:09:53] dang I think I didn't dump those checks, only the in_string ones [03:09:55] phooey :-P [03:10:14] heh I know how it works now apergos :) [03:10:26] *Prodego just needs werdna to hurry up and change it [03:10:40] Splarka: can you think of a way to hide something in encoding? [03:11:21] like &#WIPEDIASUCKS; [03:11:33] +KI [03:12:00] WIKIPEDIASUCKSDICKS [03:12:06] is WIKIPEDIASUCKSDICKS [03:15:41] there we go [03:15:45] (does, too :-P) [03:20:56] 03(mod) User Will Not stayed logged in on HughesNet - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17790 (10Simetrical+wikibugs) [03:21:11] See, this is why I should just go to bed at 8:30. If I get on the computer I end up staying awake for three hours. [03:21:15] *AryehGregor goes to bed *now* [03:22:01] night! [04:47:37] 03(mod) Commons File Revision History begging for description - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 (10RSYQFIOJGWZA) [04:50:26] 03(mod) Commons File Revision History begging for description - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 (10RSYQFIOJGWZA) [05:14:56] http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Project:Support_desk/Sections/Miscellaneous&curid=24885&diff=275677&oldid=275633 [05:15:50] 04(REOPENED) Commons File Revision History begging for description - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 +comment (10RSYQFIOJGWZA) [05:16:11] 03(mod) Extra pipes in image markup breaks in tables - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14260 (10rockmfr) [05:16:15] which site? [05:16:24] 03(mod) Parsing precedence of exclamation character inside links inside tables - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16905 +comment (10rockmfr) [05:16:56] oh, wiki-site.com, heh [05:17:44] noob [05:18:30] would help if they gave us like.. info, eh? [05:18:52] 03(mod) Commons File Revision History begging for description when MyLangNotify gadget is checked - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 summary (10RSYQFIOJGWZA) [05:19:08] Eh, he gave us the info; it's just a stupid question in the first place. [05:21:31] http://www.wiki-site.com/api.php?action=query&list=recentchanges [05:22:22] hmm the reopened bug seems to think that brion mans the bug system 24/7 [05:23:36] Splarka: can you query the version from the api? [05:24:17] http://www.wiki-site.com/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo [05:24:20] Can you change the background color of a page? [05:24:21] 1.11.2 [05:24:30] !css | bryceleary [05:24:30] --mwbot-- bryceleary: To change styles for your wiki, go to one of the MediaWiki:xxx.css wiki page (NOT a file) and put your custom styles there (sysop/admin rights required). MediaWiki:Common.css is for all skins and should be used for content styles. MediaWiki:Monobook.css is for the MonoBook skin (default), etc. For more information, see !skins and [05:24:36] which background? [05:24:37] Splarka: can you solve world hunger with the API? [05:24:40] body, globalWrapper, content, bodyContent? [05:24:49] http://www.wiki-site.com/api.php?action=genocide [05:25:00] Emufarmers: solving world hunger doesn't, it's been done several times [05:25:05] i found it just after i asked you using http://www.wiki-site.com/api.php?version >.> [05:25:06] the population expands to fill the gap [05:25:49] http://www.wiki-site.com/index.php/Current_events [05:26:11] Splarka: well, maybe it's just that the wrong people got genocided, then. [05:26:34] Emufarmers: not what I mean [05:26:38] the proper answer is genocide [05:26:55] the "it's been done several times" means things like efficient farming, wheat gene splicing [05:27:08] kill all humans = no hunger [05:27:28] Well, to be fair, I'm not hungry at all right now [05:27:36] I just had 2/3 of a pizza [05:27:47] So it seems like those developments have worked pretty well [05:28:22] kill all humans, kill all humans! [05:28:39] {{sodoit}} [05:28:48] when the combine was invented, the world went from 98% farmers and 2% other to 2% farmers and 98% other, it allowed farmers to feed more than themselves [05:28:56] that didn't solve world hunger, the population just filled in the gaps [05:29:01] *BenderRodriguez puts p858snake into a freezer [05:29:19] i would need to be human for you to complete that action [05:29:35] when a more efficient wheat species was cultivated, the population went from 1 billion to 7 billion in a hundred years, that didn't solve hunger [05:32:03] *apergos does their part to keep the population down [05:33:10] Emufarmers: the problem is much more fundamental than "oh hai, lets airdrop condoms on africa" or "meh, we should sterlize the southern US", though this viewpoint is a bit extreme it is an interesting counterpoint to "omg feed everyone!": http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.htm [05:34:57] Ooh, Jared Diamond [05:35:00] This'll be good [05:35:12] *Splarka grins [05:35:26] he basically says we should go back to living in the trees [05:36:36] long as I can has mah internets [05:36:41] er [05:36:43] "haz" [05:38:20] Splarka: he wrote that 23 years ago; Guns, Germs, and Steel presents a rather different take [05:39:03] "Partly, too, it�s because nomadic hunter-gatherers have to keep their children spaced at four-year intervals by infanticide and other means, since a mother must carry her toddler until it�s old enough to keep up with the adults." That'll go over great. [05:39:30] does in China [05:39:44] >_< [05:41:27] *Emufarmers aborts spl0de_ [05:41:30] *Splarka [05:41:33] v: [05:42:11] tab fail [05:42:32] so what do you think should be done about [insert morality issue?] [05:42:42] I think the obvious rebuttal to Diamond is that we never would have developed the modern technologies and medicine that allow us to have such great qualities of life today without agriculture. [05:42:50] We simply wouldn't have had enough people. [05:43:10] apergos: your doing your part by reducing the chav population? [05:43:38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav ? [05:43:41] no, not them [05:43:48] Yes, our life expectancies would be greater than they were during the early period of agriculture, but they would be far, far below what we have now. [05:45:14] So yes, Diamond may very well be right in that people who practice primitive agriculture are worse-off than people who practice primitive hunting and gathering, that's entirely irrelevant. [05:45:20] +but [05:45:48] so, rationalizing that suffering of some is worth enjoyment of others? [05:46:35] (in a way that is mathmatically accurate, you can't have either without the other for contrast) [05:46:50] ((otherwise how would you know?)) [05:46:51] I don't see how it's rationalizing it: his point was supposed to be that agriculture has made us worse off. It clearly has not; it happened to make people at an earlier point in time worse off. [05:48:24] If his point were merely that agriculture in of itself is inferior to hunting and gathering in the short term, then perhaps he would be right. [05:49:07] his point is "It clearly has not" is a false assumption [05:49:50] sure, had we stayed hunter-gatherers we wouldn't have the internet, but we also wouldn't miss it, ignorance is bliss after all [05:50:10] And we also would live for a third as long. [05:50:12] and a hundred billion humans wouldn't have lived and died to give us it, only a few million or so [05:50:30] (*at the current time) [05:50:34] If you want to reduce it to the point of "well, it would be what it would be, and we wouldn't know what it's not," then any comparison is meaningless. [05:51:14] "it's not the years in your life, it's the life in your years", heh [05:51:51] Emufarmers: eh, basically the same for morality, but people still debate it [05:52:37] Well, maybe it's just the Euro-centric elitist in me, but somehow literature and entertainment seem like worthy endeavors to me. [05:53:20] people had entertainment back before agriculture [05:53:47] what is most important? individual, family, friends, extended family, [political division: town, city, county, state, country, continent, world][other: race, religion, creed], species, intelligent life, "has a face" life, all life, the surface of the earth, the biological extent of the earth, all of the earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the supercluster? [05:53:48] Probably not in forms nearly so varied [05:53:51] pick one [05:54:22] Splarka: can I opt for nihilism and say they're all equally meaningless? [05:54:43] I pick the individual. [05:54:50] you win [05:55:04] UN:N [05:55:20] I was going to go for "intelligent life, universal scale" [05:55:25] but it wasn't one of the choices [05:55:29] :-) [05:55:47] *Splarka gives apergos a bag of puppies to drown [05:56:08] Well, it's rather silly to include anything beyond what we can actually affect. [05:56:21] What can't you affect? [05:56:33] Intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? [05:56:36] he can't affect intelligent life, I think [05:56:37] The rest of the galaxy? [05:56:39] drown your own puppies [05:56:44] I have plenty of work right here [05:56:51] You can't know what impact your actions have. :-) [05:56:53] picture unrelated: http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/7/23/633839569142980630-twilight.jpg [05:56:56] At least not that sense. [05:57:13] In that sense. * [05:57:21] No, you can't, which only makes measuring their importance more meaningless. [05:57:44] Not sure meaningless is the best term. [05:57:48] Futile, maybe. [05:57:54] Irrelevant. ^__^ [05:58:00] *Annemarie shrugs. #mediawiki: after hours. [05:58:52] eh, intelligence leads to nihilism, self correcting flaw in biology [05:59:15] this is why christians don't believe in evolution [05:59:18] who wants to finish the last three project questions for me? [05:59:24] Argument from consequences [05:59:36] also another unrelated image: http://stammy.com/post/186616384/ap-photographer-foot [05:59:40] Some Christians believe in evolution. [05:59:59] (except the Roman Catholic Church, banning contraception, heh, great trolls) [06:00:57] *Splarka buys Emufarmers a http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/AlexClarke/Starfighter/sarcasm_detector.jpg [06:12:50] hmm, what is the bug number for the bug relating to lang variants like "en-gb" taking messages from their fallback .php file rather than the interface? [06:13:09] eg en-gb will take 'foo' from MessagesEn.php and not from MediaWiki:Foo/en [06:15:18] 03(mod) Commons File Revision History begging for description when MyLangNotify gadget is checked - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 (10herd) [06:26:26] 03(mod) Commons File Revision History begging for description when MyLangNotify gadget is checked - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20373 (10RSYQFIOJGWZA) [06:55:00] what is the best way to get a listing of section headers after they have gone through the template parser? [06:56:17] it is best not to put section headers in templates, as, the edit link for that section header will cause a user to edit the template instead. [06:56:26] What I mean is [06:57:01] I have a bot that uses the page wiki-markup to generate a list of sections, but the problem is that once templates are factored in, it does not match what the section is actually called [06:57:18] the bot sees "{{tl|Templatename}}", but that's not the actual name of the section [06:57:39] harej: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=parse&page=Foobar&prop=sections [06:57:55] where's the corresponding doc page? [06:57:58] 03siebrand * r56252 10/trunk/extensions/ (11 files in 11 dirs): Localisation updates for magic words for extensions from translatewiki.net [06:58:03] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php [06:58:45] i mean on mediawiki.org [06:58:59] http://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php [06:59:03] heh [06:59:14] don't trust the mediawiki.org documentation, it is written by non-developers [06:59:24]