[00:01:27] <^demon>	Hmm, I'm looking at the bug report. It says it was fixed in 5.3
[00:03:32] <Emufarmers>	So Windows users will start using it in 2020
[00:03:55] *^demon 	stabs
[00:05:40] <^demon>	brion: All I know is, I was able to reproduce in XP and Vista and the patch fixed it.
[00:06:18] <brion>	well it may be doing the right thing but is it switching on the right trigger?
[00:07:04] <brion>	when you say 'reproduce in xp' did you reproduce the bug or did you reproduce it working?
[00:07:20] <brion>	xp would identify as nt 5.1...
[00:07:24] <brion>	iirc
[00:08:09] <^demon>	Both. I tried running the same script (svnImport.php) and got the error. I applied the patch and it ran without errors.
[00:08:34] <brion>	ok that appears to confirm that it's not a windows version-dependent thing?
[00:09:10] *^demon 	slaps himself with a stack of bricks
[00:09:15] <brion>	and is that all things or just the svn thingy?
[00:09:24] <^demon>	Of course it's not. It's a PHP bug so I need to check for which PHP version it was fixed in :)
[00:09:46] <brion>	:D
[00:10:12] <^demon>	It's any script that calls exec() and has quotes, I believe.
[00:10:56] <^demon>	Anywho, it's because exec() on Windows doesn't execute directly. It calls cmd.exe and passes the command as an arg.
[00:11:14] <brion>	right
[00:11:39] *^demon 	stabs PHP & Windows a few times for good measure
[00:12:10] <brion>	:D
[00:13:24] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) 'root' rights hidden edits from recent changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20833  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[00:18:04] *^demon 	is playing "find when a bug was actually fixed in PHP"
[00:18:14] <brion>	\o/
[00:18:16] <brion>	it's awesome
[00:18:17] <^demon>	"This bug has been fixed"
[00:18:21] <^demon>	Well thanks.
[00:18:23] <brion>	yeah :)
[00:18:38] <brion>	they've got an online svn viewer i think; should be possible to find the changed file
[00:18:47] <brion>	since we have tim's code fragments in his whinge to php-internals :D
[00:18:59] <Emufarmers>	"This bug was fixed when my sister was twice as old as I am now."
[00:19:46] <^demon>	And it was fixed somewhere in August of last year I *think*
[00:20:03] <^demon>	That's when it's mentioned as being in a 5.3 snapshot, and I would assume it got backported to the current 5.2.x branch.
[00:20:21] <Betacommand>	anyone familar with css?
[00:20:24] <brion>	i wouldn't assume that :)
[00:20:28] <brion>	but it's worth checking
[00:20:38] <brion>	most likely it's on 5.3 and later only, which makes things simple
[00:20:47] <brion>	if it did get backported to 5.2 then we gotta check that too
[00:20:57] <brion>	or else figure out some kind of runtime test we can do ;)
[00:21:12] <brion>	Betacommand: we're css ninjas !
[00:21:22] <Betacommand>	is there a way of using div or span tags on wiki so that parts can be hidden via css display none commands
[00:21:40] <Emufarmers>	!splarka
[00:21:40] --mwbot--	
[00:21:58] <Emufarmers>	Odd, I expected mwbot to say something.
[00:22:19] <Emufarmers>	splarka this_is_intentionally_null 
[00:22:24] <Emufarmers>	bah :(
[00:23:03] <Betacommand>	brion: what can you ninja for me?
[00:24:04] <brion>	not quite sure what ya mean Betacommand 
[00:26:36] <Betacommand>	brion: I want to be able to wrap templates in something like <div id=templatename>TEMPLATE contents</div> so I can the go to my monobook.css and add .templatename {display:none;} so I can hide the template
[00:27:12] <brion>	hrmmm
[00:27:23] <brion>	did jsMsg break at some point? i'm not getting messages on ajax watch/unwatch
[00:27:44] <Betacommand>	brion: specificlly Im looking for the ability to wrap edit notices in them so I can ignore the common ones 
[00:28:37] <brion>	Betacommand: well, sounds like you've pretty much got it down
[00:28:38] <Betacommand>	brion: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=316977177&oldid=311813909 is an example but it doesnt work
[00:28:46] <brion>	you probably want a class rather than an id
[00:29:00] <Betacommand>	ahh
[00:29:55] <^demon>	brion: I just went through the changelog for php 5.x. It's listed as fixed in 5.3, not in 5.2.x. Will tweak to check for 5.3 instead of NT build :)
[00:31:23] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20669  +comment (10tparscal)
[00:31:38] <^demon>	"Fixed exec() on Windows to not eat the first and last double quotes."
[00:32:00] <^demon>	No bug number. No commit number. Just a plaintext changelog entry.
[00:32:08] <brion>	^demon: thx
[00:32:08] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Thumb.php cannot handle file redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20802  +comment (10brion)
[00:32:14] <brion>	those damn php'ers :D
[00:38:52] <CIA-12>	03demon * r57093 10/trunk/phase3/includes/GlobalFunctions.php: Followup r56731, check for PHP 5.3 or greater (where it was fixed). Not a Windows issue
[00:39:28] <^demon>	You know, I got the Mac so I could *stop* developing on Windows :)
[00:41:32] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) div#mw-js-message should not use inline style "display: block;" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18436  +comment (10brion)
[00:42:32] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Patch: wfShellExec() malfunctioning on NT Build 7100 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20353  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[00:48:09] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57094 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES skins/common/wikibits.js): 
[00:48:09] <CIA-12>	Revert r56902 "(bug 18436) remove redundant (and disruptive to CSS) hardcoded "display:inline" style from messages injected with jsMsg()."
[00:48:09] <CIA-12>	Totally broken; breaks at least Vector skin and any other which includes an initially-hidden div for the JS messages -- the div was no longer being unhidden.
[00:48:10] <CIA-12>	Just use a !important in your custom style...
[00:48:31] <wikibugs>	03(mod) div#mw-js-message should not use inline style "display: block;" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18436  (10brion)
[00:50:09] <brion>	tx ^demon 
[00:50:13] <^demon>	np
[00:50:17] <CIA-12>	03yaron * r57095 10/tags/extensions/SemanticDrilldown/REL_0_6/ (17 files in 4 dirs): Tag for version 0.6
[00:50:29] <exercicios>	:((((((((( failing to import a 550kb xml dump, it keeps complaining about line 11 </namespace> tag
[00:52:24] <brion>	exercicios: can you paste the exact output at dpaste.org and link here?
[00:53:19] <exercicios>	paste the xml?
[00:53:44] <brion>	no, the error output
[00:53:49] <brion>	after that maybe we look at the xml :)
[00:54:38] <exercicios>	error importing .... line 11 column ... not well-formed (invalid token)
[00:56:31] <brion>	sounds like your file is bogus
[00:56:38] <brion>	Where'd it come from?
[00:57:04] <exercicios>	from notepad
[00:57:19] <exercicios>	I copied 160 pages 
[00:57:24] <exercicios>	and pasted in a xml
[00:57:34] <exercicios>	manually typing the xml tags...
[00:58:46] <Betacommand>	brion: quick question can css class names have spaces in them?
[00:59:26] <^demon>	Betacommand: No
[00:59:46] <^demon>	class="Someclass Someotherclass" means you have two classes.
[00:59:51] <brion>	Betacommand: an element may have multiple class names, which are separated by spaces
[01:00:19] <brion>	exercicios: ok sounds like you got something wrong then :)
[01:00:29] <brion>	either bad element nesting, or bad character encoding
[01:00:37] <Betacommand>	thanks. /me now goes to look for the magic work that I need
[01:00:43] <Betacommand>	!magicword
[01:00:43] --mwbot--	For more information about creating magic words and their inner workings, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Magic_words>. For a list of magic words, please see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words>.
[01:01:20] <exercicios>	line 11 column 32 corresponds to this character ã, in the error message it's replaced by ?
[01:02:38] <^demon>	brion: Possibly unicode ickyness in notepad?
[01:04:59] <exercicios>	uhm... The other 100 pages xml that I've imported was saved in UTF-8
[01:05:22] <exercicios>	this one seem to has been saved in ANSI
[01:07:52] <brion>	yep, that'll do it
[01:08:04] <brion>	unless your xml file is *marked* as being some other charset it needs to be utf-8
[01:08:19] <brion>	welcome to the wonder of xml :)
[01:09:27] <exercicios>	converted to utf-8 in notepad++ trying again
[01:09:33] <^demon>	Facebook status of the day:
[01:09:36] <^demon>	Thinks that Facebook is relying to heavily on AJAX and client side scripting (javascript) which is therefore the cause of all of the complaints about how buggy it is because client side scripting requires coding for complete browser compliance... Fac...ebook needs to find a happy medium of server side/client side interaction w/o the total reliance on AJAX capabilities....
[01:09:46] <exercicios>	erro has changed now, complaining about line 100
[01:10:16] <exercicios>	point at this character &
[01:11:01] <brion>	a literal & needs to be escaped as &amp;
[01:15:20] <brion>	ok i'm breaking for dinner :D
[01:25:17] <Splarka>	^demon: I tried to unsubscribe to classmate invite spam, the &nojs=1 page is the same as the regular signout page, but without the meta refresh to nojs (the form is still generated by js), big pile of shit
[01:25:57] <Splarka>	now if we could just send someone in to work for them who knows how to code, like a brion clone
[01:27:14] <^demon>	Splarka: Wait...what are we talking about?
[01:27:21] <p858snake>	you could just kidnap brion and make him do it >.>
[01:28:15] <Splarka>	^demon: facebook javascript
[01:28:42] <Splarka>	they can't even handle a simple &nojs, why would anyone trust them to run an ajax UI, is what I mean
[01:31:04] <^demon>	Splarka: Yeah. The thread on my friend's wall is getting interesting.
[01:32:03] <Splarka>	lemme see if I can find the &nojs example
[01:36:41] <Splarka>	right, so I go to the "if you do not wish to recieve email click [here]", and it takes me to a URL, it has a <noscript> <meta http-equiv=refresh content="0; URL=?....&amp;_fb_noscript=1" /> </noscript>, which is the same URL but with "&_fb_noscript=1"
[01:36:56] <Splarka>	the pages are identical except for that <noscript> block
[01:38:57] <^demon>	Hmm
[01:49:18] <pc>	can someone teach me how to backup a wiki for upgrade without scripts >_>
[01:49:25] <pc>	i.e. the manual way
[01:54:23] <MrZ-man>	pc: you mean like writing down the content of all of the articles on paper? 
[02:02:47] <p858snake>	pc: you need scripts to update the database schema
[02:03:03] <p858snake>	or you can run the sql queries that the script does manually
[02:05:17] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) UI "search and replace" button not working - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20893 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[02:07:36] <pc>	bah.
[02:07:41] <pc>	so how does one run a script.
[02:07:46] <pc>	i.e. what program does one use
[02:08:50] <p858snake>	the server command line, other wise known as shell
[02:08:52] <exercicios>	lt and gt to escape < and > ?
[02:09:02] <p858snake>	so you will need a ssh program
[02:09:31] <p858snake>	!shell | pc
[02:09:31] --mwbot--	pc: Shell access (that is, SSH access, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH) is highly recommended if you want to run MediaWiki. You can install without it, and basic operation will work, but even creating backups or upgrading will be painful without it. Some more involved maintenance tasks may even be impossible. MediaWiki is not designed for minimal environments.
[02:10:40] <p858snake>	someone should fix that link >.>
[02:10:50] <pc>	how do you access an ssh
[02:10:56] <pc>	does it require a download
[02:10:57] <pc>	or
[02:11:38] <p858snake>	you need a shell client
[02:11:44] <p858snake>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_SSH_clients
[02:12:06] *p858snake 	pokes Splarka, your good at explaining stuff
[02:15:43] <Splarka>	the blue turtle shell takes out the lead car
[02:15:47] <Splarka>	t
[02:17:37] <exercicios>	aw
[02:17:58] <exercicios>	replacing < and > with lt and gt produced literal lt and gt
[02:21:53] <pc>	so I got myself putty
[02:21:56] <pc>	what do I do no
[02:21:57] <pc>	*now
[03:11:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Minor, watch checkboxes are reset following an edit conflict - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19886  +comment (10mac.med02)
[03:13:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Minor, watch checkboxes are reset following an edit conflict - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19886  (10mac.med02)
[03:14:42] <hippietrail>	how would a sql select by namespace and current page content?
[03:16:34] <TimStarling>	content?
[03:16:43] <TimStarling>	you mean like a full text search?
[03:17:48] <hippietrail>	i want to get all template titles for which the page currently contains any headings in wikitext so ^== or \n==
[03:22:38] <TimStarling>	on a default install?
[03:24:12] <hippietrail>	i guess so. i have access to it but it's not mine
[03:24:45] <Splarka>	watch your regex
[03:24:49] <Splarka>	{{passthru|1
[03:24:49] <Splarka>	=foo=}}
[03:24:55] <Splarka>	won't do what you might think, for example
[03:25:03] <Splarka>	though ==foo== will
[03:25:05] <hippietrail>	yeah i know
[03:25:19] <hippietrail>	i think i'll grab them to a file which i will analyse more deeply
[03:25:19] <Amgine>	It should be, Hippietrail. An svn install by Cirwin.
[03:25:41] <Splarka>	are you working on a wiktionary dump still?
[03:26:17] <hippietrail>	i'm looking into detecting automagically which templates have headings hidden in them to deal with the anagrams proposal should it succeed
[03:27:33] <hippietrail>	i'm looking into doing it via a dump and also via our wiktionary dev mirror
[03:27:56] <TimStarling>	select page_namespace,page_title from page,revision,text where page_latest=rev_id and rev_text_id=old_id and old_text like '%\n==';
[03:28:01] <TimStarling>	obviously won't work if compression is enabled
[03:28:23] <TimStarling>	should be another % after that ==, otherwise it'll only match at the end
[03:28:25] <hippietrail>	yes i thought about compression. would it return some kind of error in that case?
[03:28:48] <hippietrail>	i like regexp better than like anyway (-: thanks tim
[03:32:25] <hippietrail>	TimStarling: i tried this but got an empty result (and very quick): select page_title from page,revision,text where page_namespace=10 and page_latest=rev_id and rev_text_id=old_id and old_text like '==';
[03:35:43] <Andsim>	hello
[03:36:35] <hippietrail>	this also returns an empty set \-:   select page_namespace,page_title from page,revision,text where page_latest=rev_id and rev_text_id=old_id and old_text like 'ant' limit 10;
[03:37:06] <TimStarling>	maybe it's compressed
[03:37:37] <TimStarling>	try select old_flags from ...
[03:37:37] <hippietrail>	is that a query that can tell me whether compression is enabled
[03:37:53] <TimStarling>	if it says gzip then it's gzipped
[03:38:48] <hippietrail>	i took out the old_text like and all the old_flags just say utf-8
[03:39:14] <TimStarling>	oh, you left out the percents
[03:39:34] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use userdbase which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user dbb on different server. how can i do it?
[03:39:37] <hippietrail>	ah my sql is rustier than pure iron oxide sorry
[03:39:44] <TimStarling>	like '%ant%'
[03:40:15] <TimStarling>	like 'ant' just finds the pages that contain only "ant"
[03:40:24] <hippietrail>	ok now it's working thanks
[03:41:59] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use userdbase which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user dbb on different server. how can i do it?
[03:53:28] <Amgine>	As long as I'm here thinking about it, TimStarling - Bawolff reports that MW gives an xslt style sheet the mime type text/xml, "twhich well technically correct, the real word requires text/xsl for cross-browser support."
[04:04:03] <TimStarling>	which browser is it that requires an incorrect non-standard mime type to work
[04:04:08] <TimStarling>	?
[04:05:03] <TimStarling>	and will it accept application/xslt+xml as per the XSLT 2.0 spec?
[04:06:26] <Amgine>	IE
[04:06:41] <Amgine>	And I don't know about the latter.
[04:15:12] <TimStarling>	it doesn't work
[04:17:12] <Amgine>	Okay; I'll tell xyr you said so.
[04:18:44] <TimStarling>	the spec is pretty clear on this
[04:19:19] <TimStarling>	if MS wants to make up their own standards, they're free to do that
[04:19:57] <TimStarling>	I don't think it would be helpful for interoperability to implement them alone, and to break any application that follows the standard
[04:20:10] <Splarka>	...says the guy who reverse engineered 3 versions of IE's idiocy to plug security holes
[04:21:22] <TimStarling>	an exercise which obviously filled me with a deep love of IE's defacto standards
[04:21:49] *Splarka 	's sarcasm detector melts
[04:24:24] <charitwo>	lol...
[04:24:52] <TimStarling>	who's that IE guy I met at Web Directions South?
[04:29:08] <TimStarling>	crikey, that was 2007
[04:29:11] <TimStarling>	how time flies
[04:30:50] <TimStarling>	and he left the IE team in May 2009, so much for that idea
[04:32:54] *TimStarling 	needs to go to some more conferences
[04:35:29] <Amgine>	<checks to see if this is really TimStarling, and not some evil twin>
[04:36:56] <charitwo>	he used crikey, so he must be possessed by Steve Irwin
[04:38:40] <TimStarling>	steve irwin did not invent crikey
[04:39:23] <charitwo>	that's who i think of when i hear that word :p
[04:42:40] <Splarka>	it probably mostly is a generational indicator anymore, as any australian kids who grew up in the Irwin age avoid crikey (after the age of 5) as cliche...?
[04:45:11] <TimStarling>	slang of british origin has been declining for a long time in australia
[04:45:27] <TimStarling>	because of american influence
[04:46:20] <Splarka>	maybe the great e-barrier reef should filter "hella"
[04:47:28] <TimStarling>	and because a lot of people now just prefer to swear than use a minced oath
[04:47:52] <TimStarling>	but I don't like swearing so crikey works for me
[04:56:54] <TimStarling>	how about strewth? did Steve Irwin use that?
[04:58:28] <Amgine>	Don't ask me. I'm not sure who Steve Irwin is.
[04:58:34] <pc>	:O
[04:58:38] <Amgine>	<lives in rocks and online>
[04:58:39] <pc>	you poor deprived child
[04:58:42] <pc>	LOL
[04:58:44] <pc>	exactly
[04:58:47] <Amgine>	<coughs>
[05:14:46] *charitwo 	sees werdna doing the tango
[05:23:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) New URL displays an Error message. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20894 blocker; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[05:50:57] <Brian_S>	I have a question
[05:51:40] <Brian_S>	How do you get the "Allow this user to edit own talk page while blocked" in the Special:Block page in the default MediaWiki installation of version 1.15
[05:51:47] <Brian_S>	?
[05:58:15] <p858snake>	!wg BlockAllowsUTEdit | Brian_S
[05:58:15] --mwbot--	Brian_S: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgBlockAllowsUTEdit
[05:59:26] <Brian_S>	Will that then enable the option?
[06:00:43] <OverlordQ>	yes (afaik)
[06:01:18] <Brian_S>	Ok :)
[06:02:00] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20669  (10wikibugs)
[06:03:54] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20669  +comment (10wikibugs)
[06:18:33] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20669  (10wikibugs)
[06:40:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add margins to printable css style - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17297  +comment (10verdy_p)
[07:12:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Add margins to printable css style - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17297  (10verdy_p)
[07:39:11] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change behaviour of MOD and DIV operators - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6068  +comment (10verdy_p)
[07:39:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change behaviour of MOD and DIV operators - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6068  +comment (10verdy_p)
[07:43:26] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Change behaviour of MOD and DIV operators - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6068  (10verdy_p)
[08:28:11] <Hintswen_>	anyone on who can help me understand the flags returned by the ArticleSaveComplete hook?
[08:41:17] <EvaLuaTe>	hello
[08:41:32] <EvaLuaTe>	is it possible to set all the pages back to a specific date?
[08:52:32] <Natalie>	TimStarling: Do you know if the presentation referenced here is still available? http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/19463/focus=19465
[08:52:46] <Natalie>	http://zwinger.wikimedia.org/berlin/ returns a 404.
[08:58:15] <Duesentrieb>	Natalie: can you find it here? http://ftp.ccc.de/congress/21c3/papers/
[08:58:15] <domas>	that stuff is somewhat outdated 
[08:59:20] <Natalie>	Someone was asking about why we store the full text of each revision, so I went digging through the archives.
[08:59:29] <domas>	yeah sure
[08:59:32] <domas>	older document is
[08:59:36] <domas>	more accurate it will be
[08:59:44] <Natalie>	There only seems to be one mention of Gearman in the archives (by you, domas).
[08:59:49] <Duesentrieb>	Natalie: because it's more robust, and overhead is low if you apply compression.
[08:59:52] <Natalie>	I found that strange.
[09:00:01] <domas>	anyway
[09:00:04] <Natalie>	I figured someone would've discussed it more extensively at some point.
[09:00:13] <domas>	why?
[09:00:21] <Natalie>	Isn't that what's being used now?
[09:00:22] <domas>	it takes just one human to implement decent scheme
[09:00:27] <Natalie>	Heh.
[09:00:32] <domas>	why have extensive discussions?
[09:00:42] <Natalie>	Occasionally.
[09:00:44] <domas>	you don't see too many discussions about what I do, or what mark does, or whatever
[09:00:53] <domas>	because nobody else cares, usually
[09:00:54] <domas>	:)
[09:00:56] <domas>	anyway
[09:01:13] <domas>	we have now compressed concatenated diffs with some wiki-specific handling
[09:01:50] <domas>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/HistoryBlob.php?revision=45149&view=markup
[09:01:54] <domas>	see DiffHistoryBlob
[09:02:03] <domas>	ergh, ConcatenatedGzipHistoryBlob
[09:02:06] <TimStarling>	http://noc.wikimedia.org/~tstarling/Wikipedia_21C3.pdf
[09:02:47] <Duesentrieb>	Natalie: one of many threads around that topic: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/154015
[09:03:05] <domas>	or...
[09:03:14] <TimStarling>	the flaw in the plan was that the gzip dictionary size is only 32kb
[09:03:32] <TimStarling>	so although gzip looks like a diff algorithm, it only works like that for small articles
[09:03:33] <Natalie>	Duesentrieb: Ah, thanks. :-)
[09:04:26] <domas>	hehehehe
[09:04:28] <domas>	ariel slide <ę
[09:04:29] <domas>	<3
[09:05:19] <Duesentrieb>	domas: something else... i wanted to ask you about some possible schema changes. on is pretty trivial: adding a table for (non-language) interwiki links. that should be no problem, right? what do you think would be the best way to populate it?
[09:05:44] <Duesentrieb>	maybe i could come up with a trickle script, re-parsing stuff in the background.
[09:06:07] <domas>	what do you mean non-language?
[09:07:05] <Duesentrieb>	i mean the ones that don't go into langlinks.
[09:07:09] <Duesentrieb>	[[commons:Foo]]
[09:07:26] <Duesentrieb>	we don't have them in the db yet. ialex is working on it.
[09:07:51] <domas>	why can't they go to langlinks?
[09:08:29] <werdna>	because they're different
[09:08:33] <domas>	ok
[09:08:39] <Duesentrieb>	they could, but then we'd need a flag in that table telling us which ones are "real" langlinks
[09:08:41] <werdna>	langlinks tells you which articles are equivalent between languages
[09:08:50] <Duesentrieb>	also, the uniqueness constraint is different
[09:08:53] <werdna>	this table is for interlanguage articles that are LINKED to
[09:09:04] <domas>	*shrug*, why do you ask me
[09:09:09] <Duesentrieb>	for langlinks, (from, prefix) is unique.
[09:09:18] <domas>	it is mediawiki feature topic
[09:09:28] <domas>	how much data do you anticipate? :)
[09:09:37] <werdna>	domas: when do you go to SF?
[09:09:42] <Duesentrieb>	same order of mnagnitude as langlinks
[09:09:46] <domas>	werdna: november
[09:09:53] <Duesentrieb>	perhaps a bit less
[09:10:12] <Duesentrieb>	domas: i'm asking you about how to perform schema changes and populate new tables in a sane manner.
[09:10:13] <domas>	if that is needed
[09:10:15] <domas>	why do you ask me
[09:10:17] <domas>	:)
[09:10:29] <OverlordQ>	was reading the technical FAQ and it said back in 2006 the DB took up 1.6 TB, is there a rough updated guestimation?
[09:10:47] <domas>	it still takes 1.6TB!
[09:10:56] <domas>	duesentrieb: adding new tables is never a big problem
[09:11:04] <domas>	duesentrieb: populating can be done as every batch task 
[09:11:05] <Duesentrieb>	no, but populating them might be
[09:11:14] <Duesentrieb>	yea, ok
[09:11:19] <Natalie>	Ahh, the gearman code is hiding in maintenance/
[09:11:29] <Duesentrieb>	didn't anticipate anything for this one, but thought i'd ask you anyway. so, here's another one:
[09:11:49] <ialex>	it can be populated with refreshLinks.php
[09:11:56] <OverlordQ>	err 1.2 I guess it said
[09:12:08] <domas>	natalie: what gearman code?
[09:12:12] <Duesentrieb>	domas: we are adding support for multi-page tiff. which potentially has metadata for each page. at about 100 pages, that blows the top off img_metadata.
[09:12:16] <Natalie>	http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/maintenance/gearman/
[09:12:25] <Duesentrieb>	domas: would it be a problem to change that from mediumblob to blob?
[09:12:36] <Natalie>	I guess that's not really related to compression, is it?
[09:12:48] <Duesentrieb>	ialex: yes, buit you don't want to run that on wikipedia.
[09:12:57] <ialex>	Duesentrieb: sure ;)
[09:13:05] <Duesentrieb>	ialex: so what do we run on wikipedia?
[09:13:07] <domas>	duesentrieb: how big would be the blob?
[09:13:28] <wikibugs>	03(mod) UI "search and replace" button not working - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20893  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[09:13:58] <Splarka>	<werdna> this table is for interlanguage articles that are LINKED to
[09:14:14] <Splarka>	no, it is for interwiki articles that are linked to, some of which are interlang
[09:14:16] <Duesentrieb>	domas: well, on average, no biogger than now. but at about 100 pages it apparently reaches the 64K. I don't think we'll have many files with more pages, but perhaps there is one with 2000. that would get us about 1.3 MB.
[09:14:23] <ialex>	Duesentrieb: you can let page be populated on save for a while then run refreshLinks.php for page that were not modified since the feature was added
[09:14:26] <Splarka>	wikt: w: mw: meta: wikia: and such aren't langlinks
[09:14:41] <ialex>	dunno if refreshLinks.php supports that
[09:14:46] <domas>	duesentrieb: you realize, that 'blob' is smaller than 'mediumblob' or not?
[09:14:52] <Duesentrieb>	ialex: yes - does refreshlinks have such a timestamp restriction option?
[09:15:03] <domas>	duesentrieb: 1.3MB compressed or plaintext
[09:15:04] <domas>	?
[09:15:09] <Splarka>	Duesentrieb: so, why not store these in external links? 
[09:15:19] <Splarka>	(for most intents and purposes they behave very similar)
[09:15:21] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: because they are different.
[09:15:28] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: no they don't.
[09:15:42] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: what if the target url changes in the interwiki tabe?
[09:15:54] <domas>	"what if"
[09:15:58] <domas>	does it?
[09:16:05] <Splarka>	then it changes
[09:16:07] <Duesentrieb>	they do sometimes, yes
[09:16:07] <Natalie>	Yes. That's the point of using the prefix.
[09:16:27] <Natalie>	[[tools: used to be tools.wikimedia.de, now it's toolserver.org/
[09:16:37] <Duesentrieb>	domas: blob is smaller? i'll check the types again. anyway... aparrently, there's a 64k limit now (i dodn't chack, that's what the developer told me - is it not true?)
[09:17:06] <domas>	well, tracking [[tools: links in interwiki-links table is idiotic too
[09:17:18] <domas>	so, your example is shit :)
[09:17:27] <Duesentrieb>	huh?
[09:17:34] <Duesentrieb>	why is it idiotic?
[09:17:36] <Splarka>	[[:fr:foo]] [[google:foo]]
[09:17:50] <domas>	because it isn't "interwiki" anymore
[09:18:03] <Splarka>	the idiotic part is to extract them externally you have to grab the siprop=interwikimap, and parse the raw page text, to find these now
[09:18:11] <Splarka>	and even more idiotic, the interwikimap is incomplete
[09:18:32] <domas>	you talk about language links
[09:18:34] <domas>	but at the same time
[09:18:36] <Duesentrieb>	parsing the page text is the thing that should be avoided.
[09:18:40] <domas>	you give examples of external services
[09:18:48] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=interwikimap
[09:18:49] <Duesentrieb>	my main concern is commons.
[09:18:51] <Duesentrieb>	and perhaps wiktionary
[09:19:07] <Duesentrieb>	but being able to find out which pages on wikipedia link to which pages on commons would be *very* useful.
[09:19:21] <domas>	splarka: thats API failure
[09:19:22] <domas>	;-)
[09:19:36] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Minor, watch checkboxes are reset following an edit conflict - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19886  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[09:19:37] <Splarka>	nice
[09:19:41] <Duesentrieb>	no, the data just isn't there
[09:19:50] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) New URL displays an Error message. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20894  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[09:19:51] <domas>	splarka: whole iwmap is somewhat complicated
[09:20:00] <domas>	splarka: I wrote the iw cache feature! :) 
[09:20:05] <domas>	"feature" :)
[09:20:06] <Splarka>	<domas> you give examples of external services
[09:20:20] <Splarka>	[[en:foo]] -> langlink. [[:en:foo]] -> data black hole
[09:20:21] <domas>	local=""
[09:20:30] <wikibugs>	03(CLOSED) New URL displays an Error message. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20894  +comment (10wikibugs)
[09:20:46] <domas>	well, as long as we log only "local" ones
[09:20:48] <domas>	it makes sense
[09:20:51] <ialex>	domas: no that's Interwiki cache that doesn't have a list of available prefixes
[09:21:11] <domas>	ialex: interwiki cache has all prefixes 
[09:21:23] <ialex>	domas: but you can't list them
[09:21:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Mobile site redirect is far too zealous - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20881  +comment (10hcatlin)
[09:21:52] <domas>	ialex: can't you? 
[09:21:59] <domas>	ialex: then add a key to iwcache that has all keys
[09:22:26] <Duesentrieb>	domas: so... img_metadata is a mediumblob, which has 2^24 bytes capacity. so this is actually a non-issue.
[09:22:31] <ialex>	domas: you'd need to run the update script after that
[09:22:57] <domas>	splarka: it makes sense to log [[:..] ones, yes, just all non-local ones should just go to externallinks
[09:23:01] <Duesentrieb>	domas: i was confused by the fact that a mediumint is smaller than an int. i tought that a mediumblob would have a mediumint side requirement.
[09:23:06] <domas>	and I don't care if toolserver url changes
[09:23:09] <Duesentrieb>	that would be, like, consistent :)
[09:23:17] <Splarka>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19838
[09:23:24] <domas>	duesentrieb: you realize, that mediumint is 3 _bytes_?
[09:23:39] <Splarka>	domas: local ones aren't always langlinks
[09:23:52] <domas>	splarka: like?
[09:24:00] <Duesentrieb>	domas: yes. and int is 4. never mind about that. i was just confused.
[09:24:06] <Splarka>	m:
[09:24:18] <domas>	well
[09:24:22] <domas>	why m: isn't a langlink?
[09:24:26] <domas>	it is ;-)
[09:24:30] <domas>	they speak strange language on meta
[09:24:30] <EvaLuaTe>	is it possible to set all the pages back to a specific date?
[09:24:36] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M:Foo <-- local, bounces
[09:24:46] <Splarka>	but [[m:foo]] does not appear in "in other languages"
[09:24:50] <Splarka>	so is not a langlink, but IS local
[09:24:57] <Duesentrieb>	domas: m, commons, b, etc. "sister"-links. different from langlinks. different requirements. also different from external links.
[09:25:09] <Splarka>	also "m" isn't in interwikimap
[09:25:17] <domas>	it is
[09:25:18] <Duesentrieb>	title normalization could/should apply, for example. once we have a config db, that would even be actually possible.
[09:25:20] <domas>	in internal interwikimap
[09:25:23] <domas>	I don't care about external one
[09:25:29] <Splarka>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=interwikimap
[09:25:29] <domas>	feature designers failed to design a feature
[09:25:31] <domas>	that gives a proper map
[09:25:36] <domas>	why should that be my problem?
[09:25:49] <Splarka>	because you're denying a valid workaround: a new table
[09:25:54] <domas>	I'm not denying
[09:25:57] <domas>	where did I deny?
[09:26:02] <domas>	it was you talking about externallinks
[09:26:05] <Splarka>	<domas> so, your example is shit :)
[09:26:12] <domas>	I explained that about toolserver
[09:26:24] <domas>	if external services change their URLs, I don't care
[09:26:24] <Splarka>	well, you're saying stick it in external links and langlinks, right?
[09:26:31] <Splarka>	but m: is neither external or lang
[09:26:42] <domas>	no, I understand need of tracking m, commons, etc
[09:26:48] <domas>	I just say, that 'tools' isn't something we should care about
[09:26:52] <Splarka>	well ya didn't make that clear, heh
[09:27:01] <domas>	you want me to paste what I wrote?
[09:27:04] <Natalie>	We should care about it.
[09:27:22] <Natalie>	The reason we use prefixes is to ensure that the links always work. 
[09:27:25] <domas>	splarka:
[09:27:25] <domas>	[12:09:04]  <domas> *shrug*, why do you ask me
[09:27:25] <domas>	[12:09:09]  <Duesentrieb> for langlinks, (from, prefix) is unique.
[09:27:25] <domas>	[12:09:17]  <domas> it is mediawiki feature topic
[09:27:27] <Splarka>	so, you think [[:en]] should go to interwiki table or interlang table?
[09:27:35] <domas>	I don't think
[09:27:38] <domas>	I don't care
[09:27:38] *werdna 	watches with amusement
[09:27:40] <Splarka>	obviously
[09:27:45] <Splarka>	heh
[09:27:48] <domas>	I was just getting some more data for the conversation
[09:27:50] <Natalie>	And calling the Toolserver "external" is a bit silly. It's closely linked to the WMF wikis.
[09:27:52] *Duesentrieb 	shrugs
[09:27:53] <Splarka>	werdna: you're wrong btw
[09:28:02] *Natalie 	shrugs too.
[09:28:04] <domas>	natalie: well, it doesn't have "articles" there
[09:28:09] <domas>	natalie: toolserver urls are not normalized
[09:28:12] <Natalie>	Either does Commons. :-)
[09:28:18] <domas>	commons urls are normalized
[09:28:19] <Duesentrieb>	domas: wiki.toolserver.org does :)
[09:28:42] <Natalie>	I use [[tswiki: instead of http://wiki.toolserver... because I want the link to always work.
[09:28:51] <domas>	*shrug*, I don't care
[09:28:53] <domas>	it is external service
[09:28:55] <Duesentrieb>	yea, tswiki makes sens
[09:29:02] <Duesentrieb>	ok, can we go on with an interesting topic?
[09:29:11] <domas>	whatever you want to use
[09:29:14] <Duesentrieb>	how do we normalize [[m:foo]] to [[m:Foo]]? 
[09:29:19] <domas>	it is not for our software or databases to care about your whims
[09:29:27] <Duesentrieb>	or more importantly, [[m:help:foo]] to [[m:Help:Foo]]?
[09:29:32] <Splarka>	store iw_capitallinks
[09:29:35] *Splarka 	giggles
[09:29:44] <werdna>	Splarka: you'd also need to store NS aliases and names
[09:29:45] <Splarka>	also need iw_apiurl and iw_scripturl
[09:29:47] <domas>	it isn't interesting topic for me
[09:29:51] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: that would help, but you also have to know if a prefix is a namespace.
[09:30:10] <werdna>	It'd be easier to just ask the API at the foreign wiki
[09:30:18] <werdna>	normalise in PST :)
[09:30:23] <Splarka>	...
[09:30:32] <Duesentrieb>	domas: i'm not forcing you to discuss it :) i just wanted to hear what you have to say about populating new tables and about blobs. and i'm fine with what i got :)
[09:30:37] <Splarka>	well, the answer then is to not normalize it
[09:30:48] <Duesentrieb>	werdna: and cache the results in memcached?
[09:30:58] <domas>	lol
[09:31:04] <Duesentrieb>	Splarka: that is the current answer, but makes it only half as useful.
[09:31:08] <domas>	where did I hear the "cache the iw in memcached"
[09:31:09] <werdna>	Duesentrieb: no, as I said, normalise in the pre-save transform so it only has to be done once
[09:31:09] <domas>	lololol
[09:31:23] <Splarka>	Duesentrieb: half as useful for those with capital links off, just as useful for mainspace links on wikt
[09:31:29] <Splarka>	er, capitallinks on
[09:31:47] <domas>	I suggest not normalizing
[09:31:51] <EvaLuaTe>	umm, could anyone please help me out a little? I didn't have the setting in so that anyone could edit my pages and now most of my pages got screwed. is there any way to set them all back to a specific version (date)? If not, could i delete all entries in the database before a specific date so this problem can be solved?
[09:31:54] <Duesentrieb>	werdna: yes, but how? you have to know the target wiki's namespace names. all of them.
[09:31:56] <domas>	normalizing would lose user input data, haha
[09:32:05] <Natalie>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=m:wikt:q:w:WP:IAR 
[09:32:24] <werdna>	Duesentrieb: It's silly to try to emulate the normalisation yourself, you should grab the normalised title from the foreign API, as I said
[09:32:49] <Duesentrieb>	werdna: sure, but that's probably too slow.
[09:32:50] <domas>	*facepalm*
[09:32:59] <domas>	duesentrieb: don't worry
[09:33:06] *Splarka 	watches with amusement
[09:33:08] <domas>	duesentrieb: werdna already added his fair share of seconds to on-save events
[09:33:13] <werdna>	hehe
[09:33:15] <Duesentrieb>	hehe
[09:33:19] <domas>	now he wants you to do that
[09:33:29] <domas>	you know, some day when saves are 60s-long
[09:33:41] <domas>	we won't have any edits
[09:33:44] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: the Nuke extension might help you, but iirc it's user-based. i'm not sure a revert-to-date thingy exists, though it wouldn't be that hard in theory.
[09:33:47] <domas>	and eventually we won't need to care about that!
[09:34:23] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing in IE8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20895 normal; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[09:34:44] <Natalie>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=m:wikt:w:wikt:w:wikt:w:wikt:w:wikt:w:wikt:q:w:WP:IAR I could do this all day.
[09:35:11] <domas>	natalie: on the other hand, we're not supposed to resolve every idiot's whim:)
[09:35:26] <domas>	speaking of normalization
[09:35:32] <EvaLuaTe>	Duesentrieb: i've seen there's a table called 'revision'. Would that do the job if i delete all entries in that table after a specific date? or are the changes stored elsewhere?
[09:35:33] <domas>	we can add that stuff to iw cache without any problem
[09:35:58] <domas>	evaluate: you'd have to delete entries from 'text' too
[09:36:08] <domas>	evaluate: then you'd have to point last good revision to 'page'
[09:36:16] <domas>	(page_latest to rev_id)
[09:36:38] <Natalie>	EvaLuaTe: If you try to delete things manually from the DB, you'll break things spectacularly.
[09:37:03] <EvaLuaTe>	Natalie: well, is there another way to set all of the pages back to a specific date?
[09:37:05] <Natalie>	There are maintenance scripts you might be able to use.
[09:37:12] <Natalie>	Not really. Restore from a backup?
[09:37:41] <EvaLuaTe>	Natalie: problem is, only backup is a couple of days old.
[09:37:52] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: no it wouldn't. you also have to fix the page table to point to the correct current revision. then run refreshlinks to fix all the secondary tables. and you would screw up all the logs.
[09:38:02] <domas>	evaluate: do you have binlogs? :)
[09:38:25] <EvaLuaTe>	domas: what are binlogs? :P
[09:38:45] <domas>	it is something what gives you point-in-time recovery with mysql
[09:38:57] <Natalie>	Deleting things manually from the DB is nearly guaranteed to do more damage than whatever the current issue is.
[09:39:12] <werdna>	unless you know what you're doing, of course :D
[09:39:50] <Hintswen_>	oh, now i know why my wiki doesnt load... i deleted the whole database thinking I didnt need it
[09:40:07] <domas>	Hintswen: haha, fail!
[09:40:07] <Natalie>	Ouch.
[09:40:26] <Hintswen_>	yeah not really. I need someone to help me with these flags
[09:40:34] <EvaLuaTe>	hmm
[09:40:41] <Hintswen_>	flags from the ArticleSaveComplete hook
[09:41:13] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Insert Link : Length of the text boxes shall be increased - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20896 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[09:44:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing in IE8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20895  (10wikibugs)
[09:45:53] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Search & Replace: Last search cause to highlighted a wrong position - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20897 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[09:47:01] <CIA-12>	03happy-melon * r57096 10/trunk/phase3/includes/HTMLForm.php: Recommit r56947, partially overwritten in r57024.
[09:58:20] <EvaLuaTe>	is there any way to show all of the existing sites?
[09:59:16] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Reset button shall be provided for clearing user entries - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20898 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[10:03:03] <avar>	EvaLuaTe: Special:SiteMatrix?
[10:04:55] <Duesentrieb>	hey avar
[10:06:21] <avar>	Duesentrieb: hurr
[10:08:50] <EvaLuaTe>	avar: Sie haben eine nicht vorhandene Spezialseite aufgerufen. Eine Liste aller verfügabren Spezialseiten finden Sie unter Spezial:Specialpages.
[10:09:03] <EvaLuaTe>	that's german for 'this site doesn't exist' :P
[10:09:29] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: that only exists on meta
[10:10:09] <EvaLuaTe>	Duesentrieb: what's meta? sorry for the dumb questions but i'm pretty new to this...
[10:12:20] <EvaLuaTe>	I've found this: Spezial:Allpages, and I guess it's a listing of all existing pages
[10:12:45] <EvaLuaTe>	so problem solved. thanks guys
[10:13:26] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: you said "sites" - thats completly different from pages :)
[10:13:52] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: just to see what we mean: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix
[10:13:57] <EvaLuaTe>	ohh, sorry then. like i said, i'm pretty new to this, so i'm not very familiar with the terminology
[10:14:29] <Duesentrieb>	EvaLuaTe: Eine Website ist eben keine Webseite :)
[10:15:34] <EvaLuaTe>	ja, das weiss ich schon, nur hab ich mich in der Fomulierung etwas vertan :)
[10:17:43] <EvaLuaTe>	auf jeden Fall hat mir das weitergeholfen, ich muss jetzt nur noch jede Seite zurueckstellen und das war's. Danke
[10:35:47] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57097 10/trunk/phase3/includes/parser/Parser.php: Add signature prefetching logic to Parser, supports r56706.
[10:36:34] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57098 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Split out the regex for invalid title characters and sequences so it can be used elsewhere in MediaWiki (will in a moment be used in LiquidThreads).
[10:42:05] <Blizzerand>	Hey there . I am trying to build an rpm for mediawiki alpha . do you guys know what are the dependencies required for this
[10:43:30] <Reedy>	a webserver, a database server and php
[10:43:36] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Allow PLURAL in MediaWiki:Edittoolbar-tool-table-toomany - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20899 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (bugzilla.wikimedia)
[10:44:10] <Blizzerand>	Reedy : Thanks
[10:44:26] <Reedy>	Optional stuff include imagemagick
[10:47:22] <Blizzerand>	Reedy : I think I need to get the correct package names for those dependencies and I'd probably have a mediawiki-devel 
[10:47:28] <Duesentrieb>	php should have gd, curl, xml, mb-strings... and some more stuff i guess.
[10:47:33] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Insert Table: The functionality is missing. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900 critical; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[10:47:40] <Duesentrieb>	if you want formula display, things get fund :)
[10:47:48] <Reedy>	usually, people use apache2 and mysql
[10:48:06] <Blizzerand>	Duesentrieb : Aren't those things there by default
[10:50:07] <Blizzerand>	Reedy : Sorry , I forgot to mention the complete package name and their version available in  the repository . Probably they got some old stuff there lol . Anyway I got them from the distro database . Thanks
[10:51:37] <Duesentrieb>	Blizzerand: "default" of what? if you want to define dependencies, you have to define them. never mind defaults.
[10:52:03] <Duesentrieb>	Blizzerand: you could make it depend on a bundle that includes all that. "php with all the default stuff". if that exists. you have to check.
[10:54:07] <afraidoftrees>	a mediawiki rpm should _not_ depend on a database, btw.
[10:54:19] <afraidoftrees>	and it's dubious if it should depend on a web server
[10:54:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Gives a system error while user trying to edit a page. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20873  (10wikibugs)
[10:54:59] <Reedy>	easier just to do it all manually
[10:55:18] <Reedy>	tbh
[11:08:39] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Insert Table: Cursor does not move to end of table after inset in Opera - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20901 trivial; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: UsabilityInitiative; (wikibugs)
[11:13:15] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cannot inser tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  summary; +comment (10wikibugs)
[11:14:57] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57099 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (classes/Threads.php classes/View.php i18n/Lqt.i18n.php): 
[11:14:57] <CIA-12>	LiquidThreads subject handling:
[11:14:57] <CIA-12>	* Fix display of subject editing field for editing existing top-level threads.
[11:14:57] <CIA-12>	* Try to normalise thread titles instead of dying when a thread subject has nasty chars in it.
[11:14:59] <CIA-12>	* Display an error message when invalid titles are specified.
[11:15:01] <CIA-12>	* General code cleanup.
[11:15:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cannot inser tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  (10wikibugs)
[11:23:45] <avar>	GerardM-: So my wave sandbox account doesn't work anymore (expired?) and I couldn't talk to anyone there anyway. Do you have any actual non-sandbox wave accounts?
[11:24:15] <GerardM->	Avar, the sandbox accounts do not expire
[11:25:07] <GerardM->	there are some 100.000 people who can join Wave as of tomorrow .. every wave account gets 8 invites to invite people interested in wave
[11:25:29] <avar>	mm, what's happening tomorrow?
[11:25:30] <GerardM->	at the same time they are working hard to make Wave more stable and scalable
[11:25:36] <avar>	limited launch?
[11:25:44] <GerardM->	100.000 people
[11:25:53] <avar>	Yeah, which 100k?:)
[11:26:02] <GerardM->	so with your sandbox account, you can invite eight people
[11:26:14] <GerardM->	and a lot of people requested a profile earlier
[11:37:20] <wikibugs>	03(ASSIGNED) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  +comment (10freak)
[11:38:05] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) \xrightleftharpoons macro for <math>-enviroment - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20902 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: texvc; (matthias.spam)
[11:44:27] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigable TOC : Headers added with header dropdown don't show up in IE8 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20895  summary; +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[11:48:46] *Blizzerand 	huggles wikibugs
[11:50:26] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Watchlist diffs but doesn't have (show/hide) indicator - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20903 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Revision deletion; (FT2.wiki)
[11:54:22] <wikibugs>	06(LATER) Allow PLURAL in MediaWiki:Edittoolbar-tool-table-toomany - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20899  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[11:57:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  (10marcusminervino)
[11:58:47] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Gives a system error while user trying to edit a page. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20873  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[12:10:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  (10freak)
[12:29:07] <exercicios>	successfully imported 160 pages :P
[12:30:16] <exercicios>	does a graphical CP exist for mw?
[12:31:26] <werdna>	it depends on what you want to do.
[12:31:35] <RoanKattouw>	CP?
[12:32:03] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Subject field not appearing on LiquidThreads edit form - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20888  (10agarrett)
[12:32:11] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) LiquidThreads needs to validate subject - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20887  +comment (10agarrett)
[12:32:35] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Subject field not appearing on LiquidThreads edit form - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20888  (10agarrett)
[12:41:00] <exercicios>	control panel, GUI for localsettings.php
[13:02:11] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57100 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (7 files in 4 dirs): 
[13:02:11] <CIA-12>	* EditToolbar: (bug 20901) Cursor doesn't move to end of inserted table in Opera.
[13:02:11] <CIA-12>	* Hopefully fix bug 20900 (JS error blocking table insertion in IE and Opera)
[13:02:11] <CIA-12>	* Select contents of inserted table
[13:02:11] <CIA-12>	* When inserting text or finding/replacing text, don't scroll the selection to the top if it's already visible
[13:02:34] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Insert Table: Cannot inser tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[13:02:56] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) Insert Table: Cannot inser tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[13:03:13] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Insert Table: Cursor does not move to end of table after inset in Opera - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20901  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[13:08:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cannot insert tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  summary (10innocentkiller)
[13:08:48] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Korean wikipedia wanna add new namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20863  (10rcheol)
[13:09:57] <CIA-12>	03thomasv * r57101 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/SpecialProofreadPages.php: table layout improvement
[13:18:20] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Automatic DOI linking, similar to PMID, RFC, and ISBN - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20832  +comment (10innocentkiller)
[13:28:49] <exercicios>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialUploadLocal is this stable?
[13:29:28] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use userdbase which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user dbb on different server. how can i do it?
[13:31:38] <exercicios>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:ImportImages.php this seems easier, I'm not using the ftp account on my web host
[13:33:53] <Nikerabbit>	+       //  replacing this regex with something valid will make many titles valid.
[13:33:56] <Nikerabbit>	what? :o
[13:34:46] <RoanKattouw>	Nikerabbit: rev?
[13:36:09] <Nikerabbit>	RoanKattouw: fifth-newest or something :o
[13:37:05] <RoanKattouw>	heh
[13:37:20] <RoanKattouw>	s/valid/invalid probably, but it's not obvious to me which one
[13:37:45] <cranberry_muffin>	wow alot of peopel in here
[13:37:47] <cranberry_muffin>	lol
[13:37:57] *Nikerabbit 	pokes werdna 
[13:38:23] <CIA-12>	03freakolowsky * r57102 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 2 dirs): logging table added columns, fixed cat_id sequence generation in Article and Category
[13:38:56] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use user db which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user db on different server. how can i do it? anyone
[13:38:58] <cranberry_muffin>	so i just installed media wiki and i cant get to admin panel to give myself rights to change the navigation bar
[13:40:07] <cranberry_muffin>	anyone here got ventrilo
[13:40:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  (10marcusminervino)
[13:40:37] <RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: There is no admin panel. Do you mean Special:Userrights?
[13:41:03] <RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: If you can log in as WikiSysop or whatever username you gave yourself during the installation process, you should be able to change the sidebar already
[13:41:41] <cranberry_muffin>	hmm
[13:42:20] <cranberry_muffin>	well it says on the wiki help
[13:42:27] <cranberry_muffin>	that i should be able to see an edit button
[13:42:30] <cranberry_muffin>	for the navigation
[13:42:33] <cranberry_muffin>	but i dont
[13:43:05] <Andsim>	can get help on my wiki setup?
[13:43:08] <Amgine>	There isn't one.
[13:43:31] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  +comment (10freak)
[13:43:33] <Amgine>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar
[13:44:54] <cranberry_muffin>	If you are sure you are logged in with the relevant rights but do not see the edit link, click on the create tab at the top of the page - this will take you to the edit page.
[13:44:58] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) A lot of catchable fatal errors - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20904 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (dasch_87)
[13:44:59] <cranberry_muffin>	there is no create tab
[13:45:30] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Class 'FormEditPage' not found - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: SemanticForms; (dasch_87)
[13:46:11] <cranberry_muffin>	god cant see nothing in this chat with all this garbage being blasted into chat about Semantics Forums
[13:46:41] <cranberry_muffin>	there we go added wikibugs to ignore list lol
[13:46:47] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use user db which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user db on different server. how can i do it? anyone
[13:47:17] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: ?
[13:47:46] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: read few lines above
[13:48:15] <freakolowsky>	wassssssuuuup!
[13:48:18] <cranberry_muffin>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar doesnt help me
[13:48:44] <werdna>	If you do s/That Regex/_/ on most titles, they'll become valid
[13:48:50] <werdna>	at least, titles like Fo <><><><> bar
[13:49:24] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: that comment doesn't make any sense to me grammatically
[13:49:29] <cranberry_muffin>	anyone mind helping me with a few steps after setup
[13:49:37] <Nikerabbit>	cranberry_muffin: it's probably an exercise in your reading skills
[13:49:41] <cranberry_muffin>	i finished setting up
[13:49:50] <cranberry_muffin>	but i dont see navigation edit button
[13:49:54] <cranberry_muffin>	or a create tab button
[13:49:59] <werdna>	13:33 < Nikerabbit> +       //  replacing this regex with something valid will make many titles valid.
[13:50:24] <werdna>	If you run a replace, using that regex as the search, replacing with something valid, like _, then it will turn the text of many invalid titles into valid one
[13:50:27] <werdna>	s
[13:51:02] <Andsim>	can i get help on my setup, i want to use user db which on both my main web page server db user and user my other user db on different server. how can i do it? anyone
[13:51:18] <werdna>	i'm confused
[13:51:24] <werdna>	you want unified login with two sites?
[13:52:00] <Andsim>	one site, i have opensim user db it 
[13:52:37] <werdna>	!externalauth
[13:52:37] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "externalauth".
[13:52:42] <werdna>	!authplugin
[13:52:42] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin
[13:52:47] <Andsim>	run 3d virual world but i want to import using user db
[13:53:09] <werdna>	!externaluser
[13:53:09] --mwbot--	I don't know anything about "externaluser".
[13:53:14] <werdna>	@search external
[13:53:14] --mwbot--	Results: [authentication, es, externalimages, newwindow, tidy]
[13:53:19] <werdna>	!authentication
[13:53:19] --mwbot--	See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:User_identity_extensions for a list of external/shared user authentication extensions. Also see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin for an overview on creating your own.
[13:53:26] <werdna>	tht's the one
[13:54:28] <cranberry_muffin>	ugh man this is a pain
[13:54:41] <cranberry_muffin>	anyone here got some voice chat they could use to help me with a few things to get strted
[13:54:42] <freakolowsky>	i have some leftover painkillers
[13:55:34] <Andsim>	i am new here that why i need help 
[13:55:55] <cranberry_muffin>	me as well
[13:56:10] <Nikerabbit>	werdna: replacing this regex != replace something with this regex
[13:56:12] <GreenWireless>	Andsim: And you were pointed to the right page by werdan.
[13:56:24] <GreenWireless>	or werdna, even.
[13:56:32] <Andsim>	let me check
[13:56:44] <freakolowsky>	well i have voice-chat capabilities ... but am curently in a room with 100 ppl having a debate right behind me ... so ... no-go
[13:57:24] <cranberry_muffin>	freak could you come on my vent later and help me?
[13:57:30] <GreenWireless>	The basic idea is that it authenticates using the other database, somehow, and then creates a local account which is usually, but not always, separate from the original account from that point on.
[13:57:47] <cranberry_muffin>	i dunno why i dont have an admin button i mean i signed in with the user and pass i used at creation
[13:57:57] <GreenWireless>	"somehow" is where the custom code in an AuthPlugin comes in.
[13:58:36] <freakolowsky>	cranberry_muffin: you don't have which button?
[13:58:44] <cranberry_muffin>	there is a ton of afk people in here
[13:58:49] <cranberry_muffin>	why bother being in here afk :-(
[13:59:11] <freakolowsky>	irc-posing ... :D
[13:59:43] <CIA-12>	03raymond * r57103 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialProtectedpages.php: 
[13:59:43] <CIA-12>	* Use styling 'white-space: nowrap' for restriction level label/input field too
[13:59:43] <CIA-12>	* Use commaList instead of hardcoded comma
[13:59:43] <CIA-12>	* Document two functions a bit
[13:59:44] <cranberry_muffin>	jesus this wiki software is worthless i click my preferences it says im a Bureaucrats
[13:59:56] <freakolowsky>	LOL
[14:00:02] <cranberry_muffin>	i click Bureaucrats but it takes me to a edit Bureaucrats page instead of a place to give peopel user rights
[14:00:04] <freakolowsky>	Default groups
[14:00:46] <cranberry_muffin>	Can anyone here help me
[14:00:48] <freakolowsky>	they have a meaning in the code but do not have a default page ... that's why it's empty
[14:00:53] <cranberry_muffin>	i cant edit the navigation bar
[14:01:10] <CIA-12>	03dale * r57104 10/trunk/phase3/includes/OutputPage.php: * restored script order per r56746#c4198
[14:01:45] <freakolowsky>	cranberry_muffin: do you have a public site or is it local? can you show me the problem
[14:02:13] <cranberry_muffin>	its public
[14:02:20] <cranberry_muffin>	http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=Main_Page
[14:03:25] <cranberry_muffin>	i mean i used the user and pass i did at creation
[14:03:30] <cranberry_muffin>	but i cant edit my navigation
[14:03:37] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: well, feel free to change it :)
[14:03:47] <cranberry_muffin>	Is there a single person in here that knows how to edit the navigation br
[14:04:02] <freakolowsky>	cranberry_muffin u mean something like http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar
[14:04:44] <cranberry_muffin>	how did you find that?
[14:05:22] <cranberry_muffin>	it wont let me edit that
[14:05:31] <freakolowsky>	login with WikiSysop
[14:05:46] <freakolowsky>	and read http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Navigation
[14:05:47] <cranberry_muffin>	whats that a program?
[14:06:09] <freakolowsky>	nope ... if i'm not mistaken that the "root" of mediawiki :d
[14:06:21] <cranberry_muffin>	that link is worthless ive read it
[14:06:24] <cranberry_muffin>	it says These links can be configured by site administrators.
[14:06:36] <cranberry_muffin>	well i am 99% sure im a admin and i cant edit it
[14:06:41] <RoanKattouw>	!sidebar | cranberry_muffin 
[14:06:41] --mwbot--	cranberry_muffin: To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>.
[14:06:50] <RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: What does it say when you can't edit it?
[14:07:16] <cranberry_muffin>	it simply doesnt show the edit tab that normal pages do
[14:07:32] <cranberry_muffin>	how do i get to wikisysop
[14:08:12] *freakolowsky 	opens a bottle of Peach+Passion fruit+White tea flawored watter .... hmmm ... works for me
[14:08:39] <freakolowsky>	i don't think MediaWiki NS displays editor
[14:09:07] <RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=Special:ListUsers
[14:09:20] <RoanKattouw>	    * K9j396c5tx ‎(Bureaucrat, Administrator) (Created on 29 September 2009 at 11:13)
[14:09:57] <RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: Try going to http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&action=edit directly
[14:10:26] <cranberry_muffin>	it just keeps saying loading
[14:10:31] <cranberry_muffin>	but poage never loads
[14:10:39] <RoanKattouw>	Hm it loads for me
[14:10:54] <cranberry_muffin>	how do i setup someone as a burocrat
[14:11:04] <cranberry_muffin>	how do i see if i am
[14:11:08] <RoanKattouw>	You /are/ a bureaucrat already
[14:11:10] <cranberry_muffin>	i mean i installed it on my server
[14:11:13] <RoanKattouw>		<RoanKattouw>	cranberry_muffin: http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=Special:ListUsers
[14:11:15] <RoanKattouw>		<RoanKattouw>	* K9j396c5tx ‎(Bureaucrat, Administrator) (Created on 29 September 2009 at 11:13)
[14:11:37] <cranberry_muffin>	it wont load the users page
[14:12:12] <freakolowsky>	GlobalQuery ... what's the best option for a WYSIWYG in MW ... and no, i DONT use this crap but users want it.
[14:13:45] <cranberry_muffin>	what do i do
[14:14:32] <freakolowsky>	cranberry_muffin ... how? ... i get it poped on in <2s
[14:15:31] <cranberry_muffin>	i just opened with internet explorder where im not signed in and it loaded instantly
[14:15:36] <cranberry_muffin>	it wont load if i am signed in
[14:16:45] <freakolowsky>	cranberry_muffin 1st ... delete that IE junk ... 2nd .. check if you have cookies and js enabled and if you have any phishing or other paranoia warnings on your site
[14:17:17] <freakolowsky>	brb ... pizza guy is here�
[14:18:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Semantic MediaWiki Hebrew language file is incomplete - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20886  (10niklas.laxstrom)
[14:18:47] <GreenReaper>	cranberry_muffin: There should be a link in your toolbox to "special pages"
[14:19:22] <GreenReaper>	These are the ways to handle most user management and administration tasks, other than those which can only be done via shell/direct database access.
[14:19:38] <GreenReaper>	(the latter normally involve running scripts from the maintenance folder)
[14:19:58] <GreenReaper>	Under special pages you can find methods of setting user rights, blocking users, etc.
[14:20:49] <cranberry_muffin>	leme see
[14:20:50] <GreenReaper>	The page that displays a list of users is for public use, and therefore the "bueracrats" link there is merely intended to give a description of what a bueracrat is (on that wiki) to the general population.
[14:20:52] <cranberry_muffin>	i found special pages
[14:21:04] <GreenReaper>	Only you haven't written that yet. :-)
[14:21:51] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Oracle support - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652  (10marcusminervino)
[14:22:12] <cranberry_muffin>	http://muffinfactoryclan.info/wiki/runesofmagic/index.php5?title=Special:SpecialPages
[14:22:19] <cranberry_muffin>	i get internal error lol
[14:22:26] <cranberry_muffin>	Error 500 - Internal server error
[14:22:26] <cranberry_muffin>	An internal server error has occured!
[14:22:26] <cranberry_muffin>	Please try again later.
[14:22:51] <cranberry_muffin>	could it be because i used php 5
[14:23:44] <GreenReaper>	PHP 5 is as far as I know the right version.
[14:23:55] <Andsim>	i have no proobe setup cranberry
[14:23:57] <GreenReaper>	It could potentially be because PHP or MediaWiki is not properly setup.
[14:24:08] <Andsim>	everythings workingf
[14:24:31] <cranberry_muffin>	i went threw setup perfectly and easily
[14:24:40] <cranberry_muffin>	i can edit and create pages
[14:24:58] <cranberry_muffin>	the only program im getting is admin tools and navigation editing
[14:25:41] <cranberry_muffin>	the whole page wont load now
[14:25:50] <cranberry_muffin>	i suppose my site could be getting hacked atm
[14:26:29] <cranberry_muffin>	ya shouldnt of posted the link in this chat i think i could be atm
[14:26:55] <cranberry_muffin>	cause that is newly installed and easy for someone to take advantage of
[14:27:14] <Andsim>	i cant help  much, i am new
[14:27:37] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57105 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
[14:27:37] <CIA-12>	LiquidThreads reply count fixes
[14:27:37] <CIA-12>	* Store the reply count in the database.
[14:27:37] <CIA-12>	* Update reply count displayed in TOC to follow all descendents, not just direct replies.
[14:27:37] <CIA-12>	* Adjust reply count as necessary on new, merged, split and deleted threads.
[14:27:43] <cranberry_muffin>	whatever this software is useless
[14:28:01] <freakolowsky>	lol
[14:28:10] <RoanKattouw>	Blames MW for his sucky connection
[14:28:14] <RoanKattouw>	That site loaded just fine for me
[14:28:24] <freakolowsky>	me 2
[14:28:30] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Oh I hadn't looked at the patch on 20886. Thought it was just a message change :p
[14:29:03] <Andsim>	test my huy http://wiki.ansim.org
[14:29:18] <Andsim>	test my huy http://wiki.andsim.org *
[14:29:33] <freakolowsky>	RoanKattouw well ... you can help with some thing ... but psychological issues isn't one of them
[14:29:35] <Raymond_>	werdna: did you missed to commit "/schema-changes/store_reply_count.sql" ?
[14:29:42] *werdna 	fails at svn add
[14:30:29] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57106 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/schema-changes/store_reply_count.sql: Forgotten svn add from r57105
[14:30:36] <werdna>	I also want to toy with embedding discussion pages in other discussion pages
[14:30:38] <werdna>	that'd be fun
[14:31:11] <freakolowsky>	werdna ... to quote my GF ... "you have a strange definition of FUN"
[14:31:51] <^demon>	werdna: Also was wondering...what about putting making non-talk-NS pages into LQT pages? I was thinking things like noticeboards and such on enwiki.
[14:32:09] <werdna>	^demon: that's already implemented
[14:32:13] <^demon>	Ah ok
[14:32:19] <werdna>	{{#useliquidthreads:yes}} or something like that
[14:33:05] <GreenReaper>	The irony is it looks like cranberry fixed the problem because it works fine now.
[14:33:22] <RoanKattouw>	His server just sucks
[14:33:27] <freakolowsky>	GreenReaper: mor of a lolcopter
[14:33:29] <RoanKattouw>	In terms of connectivity
[14:33:40] <werdna>	^demon: any thoughts before I stick it live on test later this afternoon?
[14:33:49] <freakolowsky>	guess he pissed off his admins one too many times
[14:33:51] <GreenReaper>	Also looks like he totally wanted to copy http://www.theromwiki.com
[14:34:32] <Dragonfly6-7>	would this be an appropriate place to ask about {{NOINDEX}} ?
[14:35:13] <werdna>	sure
[14:35:16] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) LiquidThreads TOC counts only direct replies - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20889  +comment (10agarrett)
[14:35:32] <Dragonfly6-7>	werdna - do I need to add it to the beginning of the page, or the end, or does it matter?
[14:35:56] <werdna>	doesn't matter
[14:36:07] <Dragonfly6-7>	thanks
[14:36:14] <RoanKattouw>	Dragonfly6-7: It's __NOINDEX__ AFAIK
[14:36:31] <Dragonfly6-7>	..... surrounded by doubled underscores ?
[14:36:43] <RoanKattouw>	Yes, __NOINDEX__ instead of {{NOINDEX}}
[14:37:08] <^demon>	werdna: Not really :)
[14:37:14] <Dragonfly6-7>	I type a)   {{__NOINDEX__}}    or   b)  __NOINDEX__      ?
[14:37:38] <freakolowsky>	RT Global Question ... what's the best option for a WYSIWYG in MW ... and no, i DONT use this crap but users want it.
[14:37:39] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: I think enwiki made a {{NOINDEX}} template for __NOINDEX__.
[14:37:46] <Dragonfly6-7>	^demon - ah, splendid
[14:37:59] <RoanKattouw>	lol fail
[14:38:04] <^demon>	freakolowsky: Best option is no option, they all suck.
[14:39:05] <freakolowsky>	^demon well i DO know that ... if it was up to me most web sites should be in CLI ;D ... but as i said ... users are the masters of this universe  ...
[14:40:25] <^demon>	In our ideal future there will be a great wysiwyg for MW
[14:40:45] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Class 'FormEditPage' not found - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905  +comment (10yaron57)
[14:41:15] <freakolowsky>	^demon what about near future ... or present for that matter ... 
[14:44:11] <^demon>	In the present and pretty near future wysiwygs for MW suck.
[14:44:51] <werdna>	RoanKattouw: enwiki has {{NOINDEX}}
[14:44:53] <freakolowsky>	^demon ok ... another rephrasing ... which do you think is the lesser evil
[14:45:03] <RoanKattouw>	werdna: ^demon said that already
[14:45:38] <werdna>	it template be a
[14:45:54] <^demon>	freakolowsky: Lesser evil? The textarea for wikitext :)
[14:46:17] <^demon>	The amount of time needed to learn basic wikisyntax for editing is pretty low.
[14:46:28] <^demon>	I remain convinced that wikitext itself isn't broken.
[14:46:40] <afraidoftrees>	^demon: '''''really'''''?
[14:46:45] <^demon>	Yes.
[14:47:03] <^demon>	It's enwiki's bastardization of wikitext that is to blame.
[14:47:25] <freakolowsky>	^demon ... ok ... i give up ... you win
[14:47:30] <^demon>	They try to contort it and make it do things it was never _meant_ to do.
[14:47:46] <Duesentrieb>	wikitext isn't broken in principle. only in practice.
[14:47:54] <freakolowsky>	lol
[14:47:56] <Duesentrieb>	something nice and simple could be designed that is still LL1
[14:48:06] <Duesentrieb>	what we have now is not even context free.
[14:48:07] <^demon>	Exactly. Which is why discussions to "replace" it with "something better" are non-starters for me.
[14:48:20] <werdna>	^demon: Wikitext is broken because it's hard to parse
[14:48:39] <werdna>	as Duesentrieb says, we need something LL1, so we can parse it with bison or whatever
[14:48:42] <Duesentrieb>	^demon: it has to be replaced. by something fairly similar, but with breaking changes.
[14:48:59] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Class 'FormEditPage' not found - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905  (10dasch_87)
[14:49:18] *^demon 	shrugs
[14:49:29] <^demon>	Anyway, class time.
[14:49:41] <CIA-12>	03raymond * r57107 10/trunk/extensions/CentralAuth/SpecialGlobalGroupPermissions.php: 
[14:49:41] <CIA-12>	* Move parentheses into tt styled section. From a typographical point of view standard parentheses around tt styled text look ugly.
[14:49:41] <CIA-12>	* Explicit use fieldset functions
[14:50:08] <Duesentrieb>	.oO(1+1=0)
[14:50:25] <freakolowsky>	ok ... daily 3 clicks on mybrute, then i'm off
[14:50:46] <freakolowsky>	gotta pack ... going sailing for a week on friday
[15:00:56] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Show automatic promotions to Editor in RC on Polish Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20805  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:02:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Watchlist doesn't have (show/hide) indicator - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20903  summary; +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:03:14] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) rebuildImages.php --missing doesn't add found images to wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20906 normal; Normal; MediaWiki: Maintenance scripts; (todd.pederzani)
[15:04:25] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Class 'FormEditPage' not found - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905  (10yaron57)
[15:05:12] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Watchlist doesn't have (show/hide) indicator - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20903  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:06:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[15:06:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Show automatic promotions to Editor in RC on Polish Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20805  (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:06:42] <wikibugs>	03(mod) protected titles no longer showing permission error - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20856  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:07:40] <wikibugs>	03(mod) IE crashes when looking at difflinks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20879  (10JSchulz_4587)
[15:08:32] <_lch_>	wheeeeeee
[15:09:37] <Duesentrieb>	*snort*
[15:10:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  +comment (10agarrett)
[15:10:37] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Internals for feeds are terrible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20692  (10agarrett)
[15:10:55] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Class 'FormEditPage' not found - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905  (10dasch_87)
[15:14:28] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Search & Replace: Last search cause to highlighted a wrong position - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20897  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[15:26:21] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57108 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/lqt.css: Add clear between LiquidThreads posts (bug 20891)
[15:26:43] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) LQT needs a clear between posts - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20891  +comment (10agarrett)
[15:30:46] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Gallery does not support image redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20907 major; Normal; MediaWiki: Images and files; (hartman)
[15:31:04] <Emufarmers>	werdna: are you sure you don't want to reconsider renaming AbuseFilter?
[15:31:17] <werdna>	You don't rename extensions
[15:31:21] <werdna>	it's a huge pain in the ass
[15:31:39] <werdna>	I'm fine with renaming all the user-facing stuff
[15:32:07] <Emufarmers>	What's a pain in the ass about it?
[15:32:56] <werdna>	you have to rename all the files, classes and what-not
[15:33:11] <Emufarmers>	Find-and-replace?
[15:33:14] <werdna>	you have to edit the configuration files
[15:33:23] <werdna>	you break any user who already has it installed
[15:33:28] <werdna>	s/user/site
[15:33:36] <Emufarmers>	Virtually no third-parties use it.
[15:33:55] <werdna>	I'm confused, what's the benefit to these several hours of work?
[15:34:16] <AaronSchulz>	almost nothing :)
[15:34:34] <Emufarmers>	You stop it from requiring somebody to complain about it for each language.
[15:34:42] <Emufarmers>	And what about the URLs?
[15:35:01] <werdna>	what about what URLs?
[15:35:12] <werdna>	and I don't know what you mean by this: 15:34 < Emufarmers> You stop it from requiring somebody to complain about it for each language.
[15:35:33] <Emufarmers>	Somebody complained about it on enwp, so they changed the user-facing stuff there.
[15:35:43] <Emufarmers>	Now somebody's complaining about it in French, so they'll change that next.
[15:36:56] <Emufarmers>	About the URLS: I don't see any user-facing way to change the URLs
[15:37:11] <werdna>	which URLs?
[15:37:11] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57109 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (AutoLoader.php diff/DifferenceEngine.php): Moved UI diff stuff into its own DifferenceInterface file
[15:37:32] <Emufarmers>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter
[15:37:34] <Emufarmers>	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=19
[15:37:35] <Emufarmers>	etc.
[15:38:15] <werdna>	that's very easy to fix
[15:38:19] <werdna>	just change the special page aliases.
[15:38:19] <AaronSchulz>	alias?
[15:38:50] <werdna>	Emufarmers: as for the issue of per-language issues, that can very easily be changed in the localisation.
[15:41:51] <Emufarmers>	But it probably won't until enough of a furor gets whipped up over it. ^_^
[15:41:56] <Emufarmers>	The aliases have to be on the server-side config, don't they?
[15:42:28] <werdna>	yes.
[15:44:39] <Emufarmers>	Sounds like somebody will end up doing just as much work that way over a period of years, but as you wish.
[15:45:51] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57110 10/trunk/phase3/includes/diff/DifferenceInterface.php: Follow-up r57109: missing file
[16:05:55] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57111 10/trunk/phase3/includes/Title.php: Make sure countRevisionsBetween() returns an integer as doc says
[16:09:30] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57112 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: Show multi-diff notice on draft view diffs (bug 20877)
[16:09:49] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) copy behavior of diff to last sighted when browsing as well as when using Special:OldReviewedPages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20877  +comment (10JSchulz_4587)
[16:11:34] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57113 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: merged r57112
[16:14:37] <faceface>	any FlaggedRev ppl here?
[16:14:51] <faceface>	I need details of how to configure markers
[16:15:02] <faceface>	the extension page dosn't specify
[16:15:57] <faceface>	and the manual has the wonderful phrase "The stable version is the most recent version of the page that has been flagged to a high enough level to qualify for the necessary marker."
[16:16:13] <faceface>	but I'm wondering how that looks in the config file
[16:17:02] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57114 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/FlaggedRevs/language/FlaggedRevs.i18n.php: made 'revreview-toolow' consistent with other messages
[16:17:35] <faceface>	hmm... thats strange... I don't see my question in the list
[16:17:51] <faceface>	mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org?
[16:18:25] <faceface>	I replied to a qu on that list, and I see that reply in the archive
[16:18:55] <faceface>	but not my question
[16:19:10] <faceface>	should I repost and risk eternal damnation?
[16:20:02] <CIA-12>	03thomasv * r57115 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/ (ProofreadPage.i18n.php SpecialProofreadPages.php): search capability
[16:34:43] <faceface>	hihi
[16:34:56] <faceface>	if my question isn't in the archives, did it really fall over?
[16:37:02] <faceface>	anyone on the list in the chan?
[16:37:11] <faceface>	anyone seen the question "FlaggedRevs for dummy"?
[16:37:23] <^demon>	Which list?
[16:37:30] <faceface>	mediawiki-l
[16:37:37] <faceface>	hello
[16:37:57] <^demon>	Hmm, hasn't shown up in my inbox.
[16:38:04] <AaronSchulz>	no
[16:38:04] <faceface>	I wanted to point you at the archive, but I found it missing.
[16:38:10] <faceface>	I wonder if it got spammed
[16:38:17] <Skizzerz>	perhaps it didn't send correctly
[16:38:19] <faceface>	I'll just post it again and see what happens
[16:39:04] <faceface>	scented
[16:40:08] <faceface>	AaronSchulz: since your here... http://pastebin.com/m1577ef32
[16:40:58] <faceface>	Strange that I can reply to messages on list, but apparently not send
[16:41:33] <^demon>	faceface: Also you don't get copies of your own e-mails. You have to enable the setting and (iirc) Gmail discards them anyway :P
[16:42:10] <faceface>	^demon: right, but I'm looking here: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2009-September/date.html
[16:42:42] <^demon>	Yeah I checked too. Didn't go through for whatever reason :P
[16:42:56] <faceface>	3rd time lucky...
[16:43:22] <Nikerabbit>	hi ^demon 
[16:43:29] <faceface>	I'ts here in case you didn't guess: http://pastebin.com/m1577ef32
[16:45:26] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57116 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (lqt.css pages/NewUserMessagesView.php): 
[16:45:26] <CIA-12>	Fixes for LiquidThreads NewMessages display.
[16:45:26] <CIA-12>	* Change selector for LHS edge to select topmost threads, rather than threads a direct child of #bodyContent, which breaks in the case of Special:NewMessages.
[16:45:26] <CIA-12>	* Fix display oddness caused by free-floating table width, force it to be 10em for the LHS, and the rest of the width for the RHS.
[16:47:42] <Nikerabbit>	I see werdna is in full speed again
[16:47:46] <^demon>	faceface:  Showed up for sure this time :)
[16:47:48] <^demon>	Nikerabbit: Hey
[16:48:36] <faceface>	^demon: my regular email address must be banned from posting!
[16:48:49] <faceface>	something to do with mailing the word about a 'special' offer...
[16:49:24] *^demon 	doesn't know
[16:49:33] <werdna>	Nikerabbit: I am indeed :)
[16:49:38] <werdna>	deployment within hours on test wiki :)
[16:49:53] <faceface>	afaict its totally missing from the docs, and AaronSchulz is keeping quiet ;-)
[16:50:57] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) reassignEdits.php fails when referencing userSpecification() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20908 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Maintenance scripts; (todd.pederzani)
[16:52:43] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[16:55:29] <faceface>	well at least I know why I wasn't getting any replies...
[16:59:59] <CIA-12>	03adam * r57117 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/main-ltr.css: Vector color changes
[17:00:43] <brion>	There, tore myself away from irc long enough to actually get to the office ;)
[17:00:47] <brion>	took for freaking EVER to get a train at castro station
[17:00:49] <brion>	castro station == bad
[17:02:47] <MaxSem>	== or ===? :P
[17:04:25] <brion>	maybe more... instanceof
[17:04:55] <brion>	if( $muni->getStation('Castro') instanceof BadStation ) { echo "you fool take the J line\n"; }
[17:07:52] <tomaszf>	hehe
[17:17:46] <werdna>	freaky
[17:17:54] <brion>	AaronSchulz: 'deletedrevision' right looks pretty confusing to me as far as naming http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/57007#c4207
[17:18:55] <AaronSchulz>	what should it be?
[17:20:33] <brion>	dunno... :D
[17:20:54] <brion>	do we have a clear list of what deletion/hidden/suppresion-related rights already exist?
[17:22:31] <brion>	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Deletion-related_rights
[17:23:05] <brion>	looking at it out of context i wouldn't understand the difference between 'deletedhistory', 'deletedcontent', and 'deletedrevision'
[17:23:23] <brion>	should 'deletedhistory' and 'deletedrevision' really just do the same thing?
[17:23:34] <brion>	in which case we might want to just merge them
[17:23:39] <brion>	or do we have a good reason to keep them separate?
[17:30:25] <AaronSchulz>	'deletedhistory' is for viewing undelete but not seeing the text
[17:30:27] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57118 10/trunk/extensions/FlaggedRevs/FlaggedArticle.php: Maintain original tab name, rather than generic "stable page"
[17:30:36] <AaronSchulz>	it seems stupid, but we can't go back on it really
[17:31:03] <AaronSchulz>	maybe 'deletedcontent' can be called 'deletedtext'
[17:31:24] <brion>	well the really mysterious one is 'deletedrevision'
[17:31:41] <brion>	which is not only unclear how it differs from 'deletedhistory' and 'deletedcontent', but looks uncannily like 'deleterevision' if you're not looking closely ;)
[17:32:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Enable FlaggedRevs Patrolling Configuration on ia.wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16485  (10JSchulz_4587)
[17:32:39] <AaronSchulz>	brion: it the view-only version of deleterevision
[17:33:01] <brion>	AaronSchulz: any reason we shouldn't just use deletedhistory for that?
[17:33:44] <AaronSchulz>	I suppose we could, and DELETED_TEXT could be tied to deletedcontent
[17:35:54] <brion>	that makes behavior more consistent between full-page and per-item deletion modes, which is probably good :D
[17:35:58] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57119 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (OutputPage.php specials/SpecialWatchlist.php): 
[17:35:58] <CIA-12>	Re-work feed exposure system.
[17:35:58] <CIA-12>	* Includes a new, more flexible system which allows you to provide an array of format => URL, but also supports the older system of providing a URL suffix.
[17:35:58] <CIA-12>	* Implemented it for the watchlist if a user has set their own token.
[17:36:33] <werdna>	wheeee
[17:36:49] <werdna>	any thoughts on whether LiquidThreads feeds should show all posts, or just replies?
[17:38:04] <brion>	offhand i'd say all posts
[17:38:28] <brion>	AaronSchulz: oh, had a chance to look over feedback on flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org?
[17:38:33] <brion>	we finally got people to poke at it :D
[17:38:48] <AaronSchulz>	I was just glancing at that
[17:38:54] <AaronSchulz>	lots of noise/old issues
[17:39:04] <AaronSchulz>	and new stuff mixed
[17:39:25] <AaronSchulz>	Hopefully a current confirmed issue page/bugs will be used
[17:40:21] <brion>	AaronSchulz: well there shouldn't be anything older than what's been live in the last few days
[17:40:25] <brion>	since nobody tried it until then :D
[17:40:48] <brion>	go ahead and sort it out into fixed-in-trunk and still-open issues
[17:42:12] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  (10agarrett)
[17:42:34] <AaronSchulz>	brion: thinks like &lt;revreview-status-0&gt and such
[17:42:38] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Internals for feeds are terrible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20692  +comment (10agarrett)
[17:43:31] <brion>	AaronSchulz: can we rig up better default behavior on those?
[17:43:44] <brion>	maybe check for empty messages and display something generic
[17:43:56] <faceface>	AaronSchulz: can you put an e.g. of configuring markers / status re flags on the extn. docu?
[17:44:28] <faceface>	s/status/aliases/
[17:44:35] <AaronSchulz>	MW: message stuff in there too
[17:44:48] <AaronSchulz>	For the review "status" text I've settled for the moment on "unreviewed", "sighted" and "quality" for the three levels. How does that sound?Wjhonson 02:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
[17:44:52] <faceface>	the messages are clear
[17:44:55] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57120 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialWatchlist.php: Fix for r57119, remove double-/ in URLs
[17:44:56] <brion>	werdna: \o/
[17:45:09] <werdna>	brion: :))
[17:45:28] <faceface>	oh
[17:45:44] <brion>	yeah, setting a random token if it's empty should work fine for that (re bug 471)
[17:46:13] <werdna>	brion: okay, will do that in a sec once I add the feed links to LQT pages
[17:46:34] <faceface>	actually I don't need the distinction betwen markers and aliases, I'm happy if the aliases are synonymous with the markers
[17:46:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  (10brion)
[17:49:05] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) IE crashes when looking at difflinks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20879  +comment (10pbirken)
[17:49:57] <wikibugs>	03(mod) [[Special:Allmessages]] to have direct (edit) link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20860  (10brion)
[17:50:30] <^demon>	brion: I liked it :(
[17:51:12] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57121 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES includes/specials/SpecialAllmessages.php): 
[17:51:12] <CIA-12>	Revert r57053 for now "bug 20860 [[Special:Allmessages]] to have direct (edit) link"
[17:51:12] <CIA-12>	While a direct link is nice, the current implementation looks pretty bad the way the lines break in the giant table
[17:51:57] <wikibugs>	04(REOPENED) [[Special:Allmessages]] to have direct (edit) link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20860  +comment (10brion)
[17:53:17] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57122 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/pages/ (TalkpageView.php ThreadPermalinkView.php): Expose LiquidThreads feed links through the proper UI (feed links in the sidebar, <link> tags)
[17:55:05] <CIA-12>	03raymond * r57123 10/trunk/extensions/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
[17:55:05] <CIA-12>	Follow-up r57115: Ignore new message for translatewiki
[17:55:05] <CIA-12>	Consistent ' '
[17:58:00] <werdna>	brion: doooone :)
[17:58:14] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57124 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialWatchlist.php: Randomly generate a watchlist token on-demand if a watchlist is loaded and the user has no watchlist token.
[17:58:30] <brion>	woooo
[17:58:30] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57125 10/trunk/phase3/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Revert r56924 (new watch icon and color changes for Vector) and followups r57006, r57012, r57013, r57030, r57034, r57036, r57117: we don't want this in trunk right now, moving it to its own branch
[17:59:18] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=471  +comment (10agarrett)
[17:59:40] <cirwin>	brion: the solution to the allmessages one is presumably to create a message and use that to populate the table cell
[18:00:27] <brion>	cirwin: yeah my inclination would be to either give it its own cell or otherwise have it look and feel more like a section edit link, with a consistent location
[18:00:32] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cannot insert tables in IE - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20900  (10wikibugs)
[18:05:27] <brion>	werdna: ok my one other question -- should we let folks type in their own token or only use randomly-generated hex values and let them gen a new one with a button click?
[18:05:43] <werdna>	brion: I think the latter, it would make more sense
[18:05:47] <brion>	*nod*
[18:06:11] <werdna>	I think it was just easier to do the former because it didn't involve writing a new field class for preferenes
[18:06:38] <werdna>	tbh we could make it read-only at this point
[18:07:06] <brion>	hehe
[18:07:10] <brion>	awesome
[18:07:45] <werdna>	although read-only unnecessarily prevents people from resetting the token.
[18:08:15] <brion>	well if there's a big button "reset token" that gives you a new random val that should cover it
[18:08:41] <werdna>	yeah
[18:09:38] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Navigable TOC : The functionality is missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20669  (10nkomura)
[18:09:50] <werdna>	although I'm thinking just a check box "Reset" that would be submitted with the preference submission
[18:11:00] <brion>	hmmmm
[18:11:05] <brion>	easy to implement but strange to use
[18:11:38] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57126 10/branches/usability/: Create usability branch
[18:14:11] <werdna>	easier :)
[18:14:53] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) LiquidThreads hasn't been tested on RTL - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20909 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: LiquidThreads; (agarrett)
[18:19:07] <brion>	werdna: quick note -- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/57120#c4212
[18:19:57] <werdna>	a-lookin'
[18:21:28] <werdna>	okie
[18:21:57] <brion>	tx
[18:23:39] <MacMed>	what does it mean if a variable is wrapped in curly brackets? {}
[18:24:08] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Set wgUploadNavigationUrl on nl.wikipedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20910 enhancement; Normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (niels)
[18:25:42] <werdna>	brion: eating first :)
[18:25:43] <werdna>	hi aude 
[18:26:12] <aude>	hey, how are your travels?
[18:26:19] <werdna>	they are well
[18:26:25] <brion>	k
[18:26:39] <werdna>	have you heard back about the mm meeting?
[18:26:44] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) [patch] SQLite install does not check database existence - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911 minor; Normal; MediaWiki: Installation; (hashar)
[18:26:46] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SQLite support (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20257  (10hashar)
[18:27:34] <AaronSchulz>	come on
[18:29:02] <brion>	werdna: delphine's in #wikimedia-internal, let's poke her there
[18:29:14] <werdna>	brion: I'm not there
[18:29:17] <werdna>	i poked her last night
[18:29:27] <werdna>	she said she'd get something out today :)
[18:29:27] <brion>	bah
[18:30:57] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57127 10/branches/usability/ (extensions/ extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ phase3/): Branching phase3 and UsabilityInitiative extension to usability branch
[18:32:17] <MacMed>	what file is editFormTextBottom defined in?
[18:32:25] <brion>	werdna: she says she told you by thursday ;)
[18:32:38] <brion>	or told you she'd tell you by thursday?
[18:32:40] <MacMed>	i'm looking at EditPage.php but it just makes a placeholder variable 
[18:32:40] <brion>	whatev :D
[18:32:51] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: Grep?
[18:33:18] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: Oh, I see. You need to modify it with a hook
[18:33:23] <RoanKattouw>	!hooks
[18:33:23] --mwbot--	Hooks allow you to run functions at various points in the main MediaWiki code. For more information about using hooks in MediaWiki, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks>.
[18:33:49] <MacMed>	oh, roan, you're the one who commented on the bug i "patched" yeah?
[18:34:02] <RoanKattouw>	Possibly
[18:34:09] <RoanKattouw>	If you're who I think you are, then yes
[18:34:18] <RoanKattouw>	The patch adding arguments to Article::replaceText()?
[18:34:25] <MacMed>	yeah
[18:34:28] <MacMed>	i took that out,
[18:34:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cursor does not move to end of table after inset in Opera - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20901  (10wikibugs)
[18:34:32] <MacMed>	pointless
[18:35:23] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Insert Table: Cursor does not move to end of table after inset in Opera - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20901  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[18:35:33] <MacMed>	RoanKattouw: i found the getCheckboxes function, and i see where it's used for the /original/ form, but i can't find a place to transfer them between the original form and the EC form
[18:35:56] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57128 10/branches/usability/phase3/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Re-add the revs reverted in r57125 to the usability branch
[18:36:21] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: In getCheckboxes(), you can access the state of the original minor checkbox (if any) with $wgRequest->getCheck('wpMinorEdit')
[18:36:30] <RoanKattouw>	Something similar for the watch checkbox, wpWatchthis I think
[18:36:32] <MacMed>	yeah
[18:36:34] <MacMed>	it is
[18:36:49] <MacMed>	but what i mean is i cant find the spot where the forms are generated after the conflict
[18:37:20] <RoanKattouw>	getCheckboxes() should be called for both of them, and it should just preserve checkbox state from the previous submit, no matter whether it's a conflict or a preview or whatever
[18:37:23] <MacMed>	its just $wgOut->addHTML( $this->editFormTextBottom)
[18:37:39] <RoanKattouw>	No, that's not what you're looking for, that's for extensions to add stuff
[18:37:58] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Sinhala :Warning is thrown when edit link is clicked - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20683  (10wikibugs)
[18:38:01] <MacMed>	im underneath the EditPageBeforeConflictDiff hook
[18:40:38] <RoanKattouw>	Can't you just try to change the logic in getCheckboxes() deciding whether to check the boxes initially or not based on $wgRequest->getCheck('wpWhatever')?
[18:41:36] <werdna>	brion: can I go ahead and deploy LQT to testwiki and either a new LQT labs wiki or an existing labs wiki?
[18:43:09] <werdna>	brion: ... once I commit this feed fix :)
[18:44:50] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57129 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Replace hardcoded api.php with a call to wfScript(api) in a few places per comments on code-review r57120
[18:45:05] <brion>	whee
[18:45:12] <werdna>	which I just did :P
[18:46:36] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57130 10/trunk/phase3/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Put the watch icon part of the changes reverted in r57125 back in.
[18:49:13] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57131 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialRevisiondelete.php: Fixed deleted image link regression: was totally broken
[18:50:27] <AaronSchulz>	*siiiiiiiiigh*
[18:51:03] <brion>	ah regressions
[18:51:06] <brion>	they're such fun :D
[18:51:10] <AaronSchulz>	I keep getting sidetracked fixing regressions
[18:51:50] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57132 10/branches/usability/phase3/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Update usability branch to HEAD from trunk
[18:52:06] *werdna 	is copying LiquidThreads to wmf-deployment
[18:52:38] <MacMed>	RoanKattouw: not sure what you mean. as in: if( $minoredit == true) {return;} or something like that?
[18:52:40] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57133 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (26 files in 8 dirs): Update LiquidThreads in wmf-deployment to trunk version in prep for test deployment
[18:53:11] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: No. There's logic in that checkboxes function that decides whether or not it's adding the "checked" attribute (checked initially) to the checkbox.
[18:53:47] <RoanKattouw>	You wanna modify that logic to take the previous state of the checkbox into account
[18:54:26] <RoanKattouw>	Something along the lines of: if( $wgRequest->wasPosted() ) { $minorChecked = $wgRequest->getCheck( 'wpMinorEdit' ); } else { // Existing logic }
[18:54:46] <RoanKattouw>	Disclaimer: I'm not sure there's actually a var called $minorChecked, this is just for illustration
[18:55:25] <AaronSchulz>	oh fuck it
[18:55:30] <AaronSchulz>	i'll just merge manually
[18:56:14] <MacMed>	there is a var for that, just diff titles
[18:56:17] <MacMed>	*title
[18:56:20] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57134 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/lqt.sql: Add thread_sortkey to thread_article index, makes things easy
[18:57:25] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57135 10/branches/wmf-deployment/includes/specials/SpecialRevisiondelete.php: merged r57131
[18:57:37] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57136 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (. lqt.sql): Move r57134 to wmf-deployment
[18:58:08] <werdna>	brion: creating the lqt test wiki now, then will deploy it to regular testwiki
[19:01:02] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57137 10/trunk/phase3/ (RELEASE-NOTES thumb.php): 
[19:01:02] <CIA-12>	Provisional revert of r56916 "(bug 20802) Fixed thumb.php redirect handling. Changed wfLocalFile call into RepoGroup::singleton()->getLocalRepo()->findFile"
[19:01:02] <CIA-12>	This appears to make thumb.php more permissive than it's indended and could lead to littering false-positive thumbnails around the server when used to implement 404 handlers as designed.
[19:01:50] <wikibugs>	14(INVALID) Thumb.php cannot handle file redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20802  +comment (10brion)
[19:02:06] <MacMed>	RoanKattouw: mind if i pm an svn diff to you? or would you rather i put it on the bug
[19:02:34] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: Pastebin it
[19:02:35] <MacMed>	nvm actually
[19:02:37] <MacMed>	big dif yeah
[19:03:21] <MacMed>	http://dpaste.org/oQhy/
[19:04:30] <RoanKattouw>	Use tabs, not spaces for indentation
[19:05:14] <RoanKattouw>	You're putting too much code in the else { } . The code that generates the checkbox is now also in the else { } , that's not good
[19:05:47] <RoanKattouw>	In fact, don't put anything in the else
[19:06:03] *RoanKattouw 	wonders where the $checked parameter comes from, that's probably a better place to put this logic in
[19:06:38] <MacMed>	i was using tabs
[19:06:43] <MacMed>	must be my editor
[19:07:06] <RoanKattouw>	MacMed: You should move the logic to the getCheckboxes() call at line 1554
[19:07:18] <RoanKattouw>	array( 'minor' => $this->minoredit, 'watch' => $this->watchthis ) );
[19:07:23] <MacMed>	yep
[19:07:24] <RoanKattouw>	Or wait
[19:07:27] <RoanKattouw>	Higher up even
[19:07:28] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57138 10/branches/wmf-deployment/maintenance/addwiki.php: stick back ProofreadPage now that it's been updated, per note on CR on r56766
[19:07:32] <MacMed>	really
[19:07:41] *RoanKattouw 	WTFs
[19:07:46] <RoanKattouw>	$this->minoredit = $request->getCheck( 'wpMinoredit' );
[19:07:48] <RoanKattouw>				$this->watchthis = $request->getCheck( 'wpWatchthis' );
[19:07:52] <RoanKattouw>	Looks like it's doing what you want already
[19:08:25] <MacMed>	so is the bug reporter off?
[19:08:31] <RoanKattouw>	Maybe
[19:08:36] <MacMed>	hm
[19:08:36] <RoanKattouw>	Try to reproduce it yourself first
[19:08:43] <MacMed>	alright
[19:08:58] <MacMed>	difficult to reproduce an EC
[19:09:49] <RoanKattouw>	Not with my help :P
[19:10:11] <RoanKattouw>	Let's edit http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Catrope/Sandbox together and make a conflict
[19:10:27] <RoanKattouw>	Tell me when you're in the edit window
[19:10:57] <MacMed>	yep
[19:11:14] <MacMed>	i'll check minor + watch
[19:11:23] <RoanKattouw>	OK now add some text to the bottom that's not equal to "WHEE!!!" and hit Save when I say so
[19:11:37] <RoanKattouw>	Save
[19:12:02] <MacMed>	yeah, the checkboxes were preserved
[19:12:20] <RoanKattouw>	OK then you can go ahead and resolve the bug as WORKSFORME
[19:12:28] <MacMed>	alright
[19:12:54] <MacMed>	heh
[19:12:55] <MacMed>	thanks
[19:12:57] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57139 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[19:12:57] <CIA-12>	Pull back r56730 for now: "New configuration variable $wgShowPageOnRedlink that
[19:12:57] <CIA-12>	can be set to show the page instead of an edit interface when visiting a red
[19:12:57] <CIA-12>	link. The value can be specified for specific usergroups and namespaces."
[19:12:58] <CIA-12>	The config var's formatting strikes me as kinda scary; might be better to
[19:13:00] <CIA-12>	implement this as a permission key, which can have fancy namespace variants
[19:13:02] <CIA-12>	handled by an extension or something pretty easily (it seems to me like that's a
[19:13:05] <wikibugs>	14(WFM) Minor, watch checkboxes are reset following an edit conflict - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19886  +comment (10mac.med02)
[19:14:15] <AaronSchulz>	brion: almost done with deletedtext stuff
[19:14:55] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Call to undefined method ForeignAPIRepo::getZoneUrl() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20912 major; Normal; MediaWiki extensions: DumpHTML; (fvassard)
[19:15:50] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57140 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/OptIn/OptIn.i18n.php: OptIn: (bug 20088) Add alt text for images in optin-improvements message
[19:16:25] <brion>	whee
[19:16:27] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) improve message 'optin-improvements' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20088  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[19:16:29] <CIA-12>	03nimishg * r57141 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ExperimentalSkins/ (. ExperimentalSkins.php): Experimental Skins skeleton code
[19:16:53] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57142 10/trunk/phase3/includes/filerepo/ArchivedFile.php: isDeleted() et all should be sure to call $this->load()
[19:18:52] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57143 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/addwiki.php: Remove leading tabs in main page added by addwiki.php . Patch by str4nd.
[19:19:40] <wikibugs>	14(DUP) Call to undefined method ForeignAPIRepo::getZoneUrl() - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20912  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[19:19:45] <wikibugs>	03(mod) ForeignAPIRepo has no getZoneUrl(), making DumpHTML fail - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16832  +comment (10alex.emsenhuber)
[19:22:02] <wikibugs>	03(mod) ForeignAPIRepo has no getZoneUrl(), making DumpHTML fail - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16832  +comment (10brion)
[19:22:03] <wad>	My work is evaluating MediaWiki as a candidate to include in a high-profile project. I'm in a meeting on the subject right now. I have a couple of high-level questions, maybe some of you guys know the answer off the top of your heads.
[19:22:31] <RoanKattouw>	Shoot
[19:22:35] <wad>	How hard would it be to have an installation use Oracle as the database?
[19:23:07] <RoanKattouw>	Oracle support is present, but very fragile. We recommend using MySQL (what Wikipedia uses) or PostgreSQL if you must (more stable than Oracle, but still fragile-ish)
[19:23:24] <RoanKattouw>	And yes, not properly supporting any other DBs than MySQL sucks, we know, we're trying to improve :)
[19:23:50] <wikibugs>	03(mod) [patch] SQLite install does not check database existence - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911  (10maxsem.wiki)
[19:24:03] <wad>	RoanKattouw, many thanks!
[19:24:29] <RoanKattouw>	Oh yeah and SQLite is more or less supported
[19:24:47] <wad>	How fragile is fragile-ish, in terms of Oracle? We could attempt to improve it in-house.
[19:24:59] <MaxSem>	or less...
[19:25:20] <RoanKattouw>	Fragile enough that I would recommend to run your 'real' wiki on MySQL and run an Oracle wiki beside it for in-house development
[19:25:30] *wad 	nods
[19:25:38] <RoanKattouw>	We would sure appreciate that though; there's also this other guy working on Oracle support
[19:25:48] *RoanKattouw 	tries to recall his name
[19:25:57] *wad 	is interested in who this person is.
[19:26:44] <RoanKattouw>	freakolowsky is his nickname
[19:26:50] <RoanKattouw>	He hangs around here
[19:26:52] *wad 	googles it
[19:27:06] <MaxSem>	you know, if you have a wiki site with more than 2 users, it makes some sense to be able to use RecentChanges. and upgrade without relying on XML dumps. so I wouldn't say that SQLite support can be called functional
[19:27:13] <RoanKattouw>	He's from Eastern Europe IIRC, so he'll probably be in during European office hours
[19:27:31] <RoanKattouw>	MaxSem: Is it that bad? :P I had no idea
[19:27:47] <MaxSem>	https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20257
[19:28:04] <zai>	does someone know how to share cookies between different wiki's on the same server? our setup is similar to the one of wikipedia... one wiki, different languages. de.domain.com, en.domain.com ...
[19:28:43] <zai>	*more wiki's. sorry ^^ wiki's are basically independant. just same server
[19:29:12] <wad>	RoanKattouw, thanks so much for the info on this. Second question: How painful would it be to substitute our own user authentication code?
[19:29:17] <RoanKattouw>	!e CentralAuth | zai
[19:29:17] --mwbot--	zai: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CentralAuth
[19:29:28] <RoanKattouw>	zai: If you manage to get that installed, which was hell last time I tried
[19:29:35] <RoanKattouw>	!authplugin | wad
[19:29:35] --mwbot--	wad: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin
[19:29:36] <Natalie>	!auth
[19:29:36] --mwbot--	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AuthPlugin
[19:29:43] <Natalie>	Oh, Roan beat me. :P
[19:29:44] <wad>	Ah, cool!
[19:29:51] <RoanKattouw>	wad: If you've got someone who can write a little PHP, it's easy
[19:30:00] <zai>	hehe thx! :-) will have a look
[19:35:52] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57144 10/trunk/phase3/includes/filerepo/ArchivedFile.php: Added exists() function
[19:37:28] <Andsim>	hi guy
[19:38:14] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57145 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (. pages/TalkpageView.php pages/ThreadPermalinkView.php): Unmerge r57129 and r57122 from wmf-deployment (LiquidThreads only), breaks because the necessary core changes have not yet been deployed.
[19:38:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Watchlist RSS feed: Difficul to subscribe + Security suggestion - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20840  (10paxcoder)
[19:39:07] <Andsim>	i cant remember how to edit the sidebar which have no edit, my look disable
[19:39:18] <wad>	RoanKattouw, yeah, we can handle a bit of PHP, though we are a Java shop. :)
[19:41:18] <cirwin>	Andsim: look for the [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] page on your wiki
[19:41:44] <Andsim>	k brb
[19:42:55] <Andsim>	in the sepial page?
[19:43:19] <Andsim>	in the special page?
[19:43:19] <cirwin>	it's not a SpecialPage, it's a MediaWiki page
[19:44:53] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57146 10/branches/usability/: Remove usability branch, turns out we don't need it anyway
[19:45:08] <Andsim>	that is odd i dont see it on the page
[19:45:30] <RoanKattouw>	!sidebar | Andsim 
[19:45:30] --mwbot--	Andsim: To edit the navigation menu on the left, edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] using its special syntax. For more details, see <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar>.
[19:45:30] <Andsim>	i am login
[19:46:03] <MaxSem>	and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:System_message
[19:47:06] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57147 10/trunk/phase3/includes/filerepo/ArchivedFile.php: unbreak deleted file viewing
[19:47:52] <zai>	RoanKattouw Re: CantralAuth : does it need to be installed in all wiki's or is it enough to have it in one of them? o.O
[19:48:00] <RoanKattouw>	zai: All of them
[19:48:19] <zai>	RoanKattouw,  ouch.... ^_^ 
[19:48:27] <zai>	ty, tho
[19:50:18] <wad>	RoanKattouw, how about database replication? How painful is redundancy?
[19:50:32] <RoanKattouw>	MediaWiki supports that painlessly
[19:50:49] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57148 10/trunk/phase3/includes/ (17 files in 4 dirs): 
[19:50:49] <CIA-12>	* Renamed deletedcontent to deletedtext
[19:50:49] <CIA-12>	* Removed deletedrevision and used deletedhistory/deletedtext instead
[19:50:56] <RoanKattouw>	It does run Wikipedia, you know ;) which uses DB replication
[19:51:08] <RoanKattouw>	wad: What specifically do you mean by "redundancy"?
[19:52:11] <Andsim>	what version r u using guy
[19:52:44] <RoanKattouw>	Andsim: The lastest version of MediaWiki is 1.15.1
[19:52:51] <RoanKattouw>	Wikipedia runs 1.16alpha
[19:53:34] <Andsim>	ok i am on that version
[19:53:47] <fa>	Hi
[19:53:59] <fa>	Does anyone know what variable $fallback defines in some language files do?
[19:54:28] <RoanKattouw>	fa: It defines the fallback language
[19:54:34] <Guest22552>	ok
[19:54:35] <RoanKattouw>	For instance, nds falls back to de (IIRC)
[19:54:42] <Guest22552>	hmmm, does not work for me
[19:54:46] <RoanKattouw>	So if a message is not translated to nds, the message in de is used instead
[19:54:52] <Guest22552>	take a look 		$wgMessageCache->addMessage( 'MyTest', '1', 'en' );
[19:54:52] <Guest22552>			echo wfMsg('MyTest') ."\n\n";
[19:54:52] <Guest22552>			$wgMessageCache->addMessage( 'MyTest', '2', 'es' );
[19:54:52] <Guest22552>			echo wfMsg('MyTest') ."\n\n";
[19:54:52] <Guest22552>			$wgMessageCache->addMessage( 'MyTest', '3', 'an' );
[19:54:54] <Guest22552>			echo wfMsg('MyTest') ."\n\n";
[19:54:57] <RoanKattouw>	All languages ultimately fall back to en
[19:55:03] <Guest22552>	should disable 1 then 2 then 3
[19:55:10] <Guest22552>	but is display 1 then 1 then 3
[19:55:26] <RoanKattouw>	I'm not sure what that dose
[19:55:36] <RoanKattouw>	Try using actual messages instead of voodoo
[19:57:06] <wad>	RoanKattouw, let's say we need to make sure that the service is available all the time. If there's a network outage, a secondary site with a replicated database comes online immediately.
[19:57:23] <wad>	RoanKattouw, this is a MySQL question, I suppose.
[19:57:38] <RoanKattouw>	Ah yes
[19:58:04] <wikibugs>	03(WONTFIX) Watchlist RSS feed should use 301 redirect to change token on every view - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20840  summary; +comment (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[19:58:09] <RoanKattouw>	Well what you can do (and what we do) is have a master/slave setup where the wiki balances reads over the slaves and writes to the master
[19:58:32] <RoanKattouw>	You could replicate to a slave at a secondary site as well, then hook up a wiki to it, as long as it's in readonly mode
[19:58:45] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57149 10/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialRevisiondelete.php: Fixed regression: deleted file link was not greyed out when hidden
[19:59:07] <Andsim>	ok i got MediaWiki:Sidebar. lol it give me no edit option
[19:59:36] <wad>	RoanKattouw, excellent, thanks.
[20:00:19] <RoanKattouw>	Andsim: Are you logged in as an administrator? Is there a create option instead?
[20:00:37] <Andsim>	i am as admin
[20:00:59] <Andsim>	yes
[20:01:10] <wad>	RoanKattouw, how about system monitoring? Say the site is extremely active, are there tools to let the admins watch the system and identify possible issues?
[20:01:23] <Andsim>	ah ok i got it
[20:01:36] <RoanKattouw>	way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges
[20:01:41] <RoanKattouw>	wad: ---^^
[20:02:04] <dira>	how to redirect a page to another 
[20:02:12] <dira>	?
[20:02:54] <RoanKattouw>	dira: Put #REDIRECT [[Target page]] as its contents
[20:03:59] <wad>	RoanKattouw, how clean is the code? Lets say we need to make some custom modifications to the functionality. How clean is the database schema, for example?
[20:04:12] <dira>	that doesn't automatically redirect , is there anyway to make it automatically redirect ?
[20:04:17] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Watchlist RSS feed should use 301 redirect to change token on every view - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20840  (10paxcoder)
[20:04:23] <wad>	What's the learning curve like, for some professional programmers to get up-to-speed and start tweaking?
[20:04:58] <RoanKattouw>	wad: The DB schema is relatively clean, as is most of the code, but there's some ugliness here and there of course. Most modifications can be done with extensions. We would encourage that any other modifications (to core) be submitted as patches if generally useful
[20:05:18] <wad>	RoanKattouw, awesome.
[20:05:29] <RoanKattouw>	There is somewhat of a learning curve, MediaWiki is a big and complex piece of software, but writing extensions is not too difficult
[20:05:45] <RoanKattouw>	As long as the type of extension you're writing is mainstream, so to speak
[20:08:56] *wad 	nods
[20:09:43] <wad>	RoanKattouw, hey, I really appreciate your answers. Very helpful. Our meeting is winding up, and this feedback was crucial. I'm hoping we decide to go with it. :)
[20:09:54] <Andsim>	ty guy i wasnt sure how
[20:11:08] <Andsim>	right now my php code is not very good
[20:11:55] <Andsim>	but i want to get user db from another server
[20:14:45] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57150 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/LiquidThreads/compat/Lqt-compat.i18n.php: Remove Lqt-compat.i18n.php from SVN on wmf-deployment, seems to confuse LocalisationUpdate.
[20:22:10] <CIA-12>	03catrope * r57151 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (6 files in 4 dirs): EditToolbar: (bug 20896) Make the text boxes in the link dialog wider (size=50). Also move the dialog after left by half the gained width after resizing.
[20:22:47] <wikibugs>	03(FIXED) Insert Link : Length of the text boxes shall be increased - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20896  +comment (10roan.kattouw)
[20:23:32] <llorca>	Howdy folks, I'm looking for an extension that lets me use tags / categories to build out dynamic pages on the fly based on the articles tagged with specific keywords. I found DPL (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList_%28third-party%29 ) but was curious if there was something better, or if someone else has used DPL
[20:25:41] <RoanKattouw>	DPL is reasonably well-known
[20:27:15] <Inez>	back
[20:27:26] *tomaszf 	wonders how well something like http://stackexchange.com/ would work for this channel 
[20:27:27] <Inez>	this fallback for languages seems to doesn't work really well
[20:28:42] <RoanKattouw>	How does it not work?
[20:29:06] <llorca>	RoanKattouw, but you've never used it? I just hope it actually does what I'm hoping it does
[20:29:32] <RoanKattouw>	llorca: I've never used it, but there's a demonstration wiki with a lot of documentation and examples
[20:29:48] <llorca>	RoanKattouw, yeah this one http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=DPL:Manual_-_General_Usage_and_Invocation_Syntax ?
[20:29:54] <llorca>	reading through it now
[20:30:51] <tomaszf>	its a q/a platform that fosters community usage .. for instance take a look at stackoverflow.com
[20:31:34] <llorca>	not a bad business model
[20:31:57] <llorca>	Stack Overflow isn't open source is it?
[20:32:05] <tomaszf>	sadly its not :(
[20:33:59] <llorca>	ITs very similar to reddit, but built around "knowledge" instead of social bookmarking. you could probably accomplish something very similar for free by using reddits code since it is open source
[20:34:10] *cirwin|afkish 	stabs all websites that manage to build an editing interface that's worse than a huge text box
[20:34:30] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57152 10/trunk/phase3/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Follow up r57148: tedious crap
[20:42:16] <_lch_>	so what's stackoverflow, you get tech help for giving tech help?
[20:43:16] <tomaszf>	llorca: i haven't been enough reddit enough to know but i'd be curious about how many of the same questions could be saved an answered by archives
[20:43:25] <tomaszf>	rather then having to be asked numerous times 
[20:43:28] <tomaszf>	just a thought
[20:44:01] <tomaszf>	_lch_: its a q/a site geared toward programming questions. 
[20:44:36] <tomaszf>	with a community rating system in place
[20:44:53] <_lch_>	what do you win there?
[20:45:31] <tomaszf>	only the same as you do by answering questions here :) pride .. simple point system there
[20:45:36] <_lch_>	ok
[20:46:14] <_lch_>	but you don't have to "pay" achievement points somehow? 
[20:46:34] <tomaszf>	you get more access to the interface as you participate
[20:46:57] <tomaszf>	to lessen the noise from random participants i take it
[20:47:05] <exercicios>	does anybody knows freewebhostingarea? they offer 100TB month lol
[20:47:08] <tomaszf>	that approach does turn some people off from it .. starting out wise
[20:47:11] <llorca>	tomaszf, yeah its a thin line when dealing with archives. one of the problems I find with archived newsletters is discoverability of accurate and recent information.
[20:47:40] <llorca>	even in our companies internal wiki, search is practically useless as a result of stale pages
[20:47:56] <tomaszf>	yup, but then you balance that with everyone having to answer the same questions .. and hoping the right person is online
[20:48:00] <llorca>	so we end up forcing page authors to update their pages every 3 months
[20:48:01] <tomaszf>	so slight trade off
[20:48:11] <tomaszf>	i've thought about that for wikitech
[20:48:15] <llorca>	yeah somewhat true i suppose
[20:48:17] <tomaszf>	people "owning" pages
[20:48:23] <tomaszf>	and having those pages expire
[20:48:53] <llorca>	at least with more "social" engines, if you have someone who knows for a fact that the question proposed is already answered from archived material, then they link to the archive page, and then it should get bumped up in search in doing so
[20:49:44] <llorca>	and we use lucene as our search provider for our mediawiki instances
[20:49:51] <llorca>	even still, it gets tough to locate the right info
[20:50:53] <tomaszf>	sound like more of an issue with search relevance then simple archiving
[20:51:29] <llorca>	they definitely overlap though
[20:51:57] <llorca>	(SEARCH (   ) Archives)
[20:54:30] <llorca>	new question tomaszf if youre up for the discussion. We're trying to build a "runbook" with common problems (IT) and the methods for fixing these problems. We were thinking of using DPL (Dynamic Page Lists) to build a page that would maintain itself based on tags (categories in this case) aside from using the Lucene search engine. Can you think of a better way to maintain Problem/Solution material?
[20:54:47] <cirwin|afkish>	llorca: it is possible to use DPL like that
[20:55:21] <llorca>	yeah, from what I read, I know DPL will handle the page generation stuff quite easily / nicely, I'm just trying to make sure there isn't already a more elegant solution
[20:55:23] <cirwin|afkish>	I had it all wrapped up in the loops and variables extensions though which made things a bit easier
[20:55:40] <llorca>	hrmm, interesting
[20:55:41] <cirwin|afkish>	(though absolutely impossible to understand)
[20:55:45] <llorca>	hahah
[20:55:49] <llorca>	mediawiki is a monster
[20:55:55] <tomaszf>	haven't played with dpl yet .. so not sure on that angle
[20:56:12] <cirwin|afkish>	DPL does its job well
[20:56:20] <cirwin|afkish>	but it is not a very huge and complicated job
[20:56:36] <llorca>	do you think its a good solution for providing problem/solution relationships for technicians?
[20:57:08] <cirwin|afkish>	possibly, I was using it to provide in-date todo lists for various teams
[20:57:37] <llorca>	thats a pretty neat implementation
[20:58:49] <cirwin|afkish>	depends what you mean by "neat" http://dpaste.org/H91o/
[20:59:03] <cirwin|afkish>	the DPL stuff is somewhere in the depths of To be done/day
[20:59:46] <llorca>	pretty elegant code except for the mandatory WML }}}}}}}}}}}}} ;)
[21:00:15] <cirwin|afkish>	http://dpaste.org/YtTV/ 
[21:00:22] <cirwin|afkish>	it worked - just :)
[21:00:29] <llorca>	lol
[21:00:55] <llorca>	is this on top of an existing bug tracking / ticketing system?
[21:01:01] <llorca>	more for "status updates" ?
[21:01:28] <cirwin|afkish>	I wish :p
[21:01:49] <llorca>	oh wow
[21:02:03] <cirwin>	someone had a really good idea that mediawiki was perfect for everything
[21:02:06] <llorca>	couldn't imagine using mediawiki for task management
[21:02:10] <cirwin>	no
[21:02:16] <cirwin>	never ever again
[21:02:20] <llorca>	haha that is not a good mentality 
[21:02:35] <cirwin>	there are some autoedit scripts in the site javascript to allow "change the status"
[21:02:37] <llorca>	the scope of the mediawiki project has nothing to do with task management
[21:02:39] <cirwin>	but it's really not a pretty thing
[21:02:55] <llorca>	JS in mediawiki seems kinda iffy
[21:02:57] <cirwin>	"assign to" and hope they don't put wikisyntax in the box or the whole thing cracks
[21:03:00] <llorca>	at least from what ive seen in my instances
[21:03:02] <Splarka>	mediawiki organizes my paperwork, does my taxes, cleans between my gums, makes cross-cut french fries, and filters 98% of harmful bacteria
[21:03:11] <llorca>	Splarka, lol
[21:03:16] <cirwin>	Splarka: nice, which extension for the french fries?
[21:03:24] <Splarka>	DynamicPotatoList
[21:03:29] <llorca>	haha
[21:03:39] <llorca>	#dplfries
[21:04:31] <Splarka>	{{#julienne:}} is still a bit buggy though
[21:11:43] <llorca>	mediawiki.org servers are down?
[21:11:51] <llorca>	the error page is sending people here
[21:12:11] <llorca>	"Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes."
[21:12:12] <TodWulff|Away>	lol - i got that too.
[21:12:37] <TodWulff|Away>	Request: GET http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ikip, from 208.80.152.32 via sq24.wikimedia.org (squid/2.7.STABLE6) to ()
[21:12:37] <TodWulff|Away>	Error: ERR_CANNOT_FORWARD, errno [No Error] at Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:11:32 GMT
[21:12:43] <RoanKattouw>	Yeah we're having some problems now
[21:12:49] <Splarka>	they's workin on it
[21:12:52] <llorca>	"Dear webserver, I'm already in the channel. What I needed was the extension I was trying to download.... plzhalpzkthxbai"
[21:12:53] <RoanKattouw>	#wikimedia-tech is the channel for those issues
[21:12:54] <TodWulff|Away>	coo
[21:13:04] <Splarka>	watch there but DO NOT TALK, heh
[21:13:16] <llorca>	hehe, link me up to the extension i needs :D
[21:13:25] <tomaszf>	historically where have we been storing external library req within the mw tree. under the extension that uses it .. or top level under $iP ?
[21:13:31] <llorca>	and we're back
[21:13:50] <tomaszf>	i have a conflict between what SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi seems to think and reality
[21:13:52] <llorca>	RoanKattouw, you guys here in the valley? (Silicon)
[21:14:08] <RoanKattouw>	The WMF office is in downtown San Francisco
[21:14:11] <tomaszf>	the Wikimedia office is in sf
[21:14:14] <RoanKattouw>	I'm personally in the Netherlands
[21:14:16] <llorca>	oh cool
[21:14:47] <llorca>	I'm down in Palo Alto
[21:15:03] *tomaszf 	is so happy to no have to commute from palo alto anymore 
[21:15:17] <llorca>	from PA to SF?
[21:15:35] <tomaszf>	yup
[21:15:43] <llorca>	i used to do the opposite
[21:15:51] <llorca>	now i moved to Mountain View, drive to work in 10 mins
[21:16:18] <tomaszf>	nice .. driving isnt really for me
[21:16:49] <llorca>	ive been a commuter for about 7 years, so I was used to it, but then gave it up 
[21:16:54] <llorca>	$450 a month in gas
[21:16:59] <llorca>	not fun
[21:17:14] <tomaszf>	the train works out nicely though .. but you get tired of it in the end
[21:17:48] <llorca>	i lived in pac heights, it took like 30 - 40 mins to get down to the highway / train
[21:17:58] <tomaszf>	so anyone know about placement of dependent libs in mw tree ?
[21:18:08] <llorca>	not i
[21:18:48] <RoanKattouw>	I'm commuting an hour to uni and back by train about 4 days a week, but when I can afford it I do want to move closer
[21:19:05] <llorca>	long commute?
[21:19:17] <RoanKattouw>	One-hour train ride
[21:19:34] <werdna>	I commute to the desk at the end of my bed :D
[21:19:37] *werdna 	hides
[21:20:30] <Inez>	Is there MediaWiki messages mechanism somewhere explained really well?
[21:20:59] <Inez>	I have problem to understand how those fallback to other languages works. Seems to work different for messages defined in files versus defined via article in database.
[21:21:53] <RoanKattouw>	Inez: Do you mean MediaWiki: pages by the latter?
[21:22:10] <Inez>	yes
[21:22:43] <Inez>	my wiki lang is an, I have MediaWiki:text/en defined
[21:22:56] <^demon>	Our next project for program design has to be a web app written in PHP. Our TA is going to lecture us in PHP basics.
[21:23:00] *^demon 	can't wait
[21:23:14] <Inez>	but wfMsg for text return empty message instead of that what is defined under text/en, as fallback
[21:23:19] *Splarka 	still grumbles that variants like en-gb now fall back to MessagesEn.php before on-site /en customizations
[21:23:36] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: Who's gonna lecture who
[21:23:40] <TodWulff|Away>	[17:12] <RoanKattouw> #wikimedia-tech is the channel for those issues  <-- maybe the exception page can be made to denote that vs. this channel?
[21:23:52] <RoanKattouw>	Oh yeah
[21:23:56] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: I've already promised my group members that I'll keep my mouth shut and behave :P
[21:24:03] <RoanKattouw>	heh
[21:24:30] <RoanKattouw>	I know I didn't when we were taught Discrete Maths by a guy who was so slow on the uptake I'd proved his slides wrong on paper before he figured out what I was saying
[21:24:30] <Splarka>	^demon: make a "Citation needed" sign and hold it up... when appropriate
[21:24:48] <RoanKattouw>	TodWulff|Away: werdna>	RoanKattouw: god no, we don't want people flooding this channel when the site goes down
[21:24:53] <^demon>	I plan on opening my mouth if he says anything wrong.
[21:25:01] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57153 10/trunk/phase3/maintenance/mctest.php: Fix regression: server parameter needs to be optional; most of the time we *do not* want to use one since it's going to test all defined servers
[21:25:28] <^demon>	Seeing as he's already admitted that he knows "very little" about PHP and only used it "once or twice," I'm expecting this to be rather enjoyable.
[21:25:56] <Splarka>	or maybe... "PHP, or PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor *GIGGLE*, is a widely used *SNORT*, general-purpose *GUFFAW* scripting *SNICKER* language *HAHAHA*"
[21:26:19] <^demon>	It is widely used :p
[21:26:25] <^demon>	And it's general purpose too :)
[21:26:28] <RoanKattouw>	Oh and this is PHP, so there's lots of quirks that we know and he doesn't 
[21:26:35] <^demon>	It just sucks at everything ;-)
[21:28:43] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57154 10/branches/wmf-deployment/maintenance/mctest.php: merge r57153 from trunk: fix mctest.php
[21:28:56] <RoanKattouw>	In very unique ways
[21:29:47] <werdna>	^demon: not having used PHP is the mark of a good programmer :P
[21:29:48] *werdna 	hides.
[21:31:02] <^demon>	werdna: He's not a programmer. He's a grad student working on a degree in networking theory :P
[21:31:11] <^demon>	So we have a non-programmer teaching us PHP
[21:31:13] *^demon 	cheers
[21:31:16] <RoanKattouw>	*snort*
[21:31:38] <RoanKattouw>	We should bet on how many classes it takes before he gives up and lets you teach the course
[21:31:50] <Platonides>	and... why is he on the position of "teaching" you?
[21:35:21] <Reedy>	Money
[21:36:07] <Platonides>	so he pays the powers that be to teach a language he doesn't know?
[21:36:19] <^demon>	Platonides: No clue. Our professor (keeping in mind this is for a program design course) specializes in networking theory.
[21:36:20] <Reedy>	nah, he'll be getting paid
[21:36:28] <^demon>	The TA is one of his grad students.
[21:36:37] <Reedy>	^demon, i like speaking up and proving lecturers wrong
[21:36:38] <^demon>	So his grad student ends up TAing a lot of his courses.
[21:36:44] <Reedy>	My mates find it rather funny
[21:36:56] <Reedy>	As i dont back down when i know im right :D
[21:37:14] <CIA-12>	03mkroetzsch * r57155 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/RELEASE-NOTES: +vector skin compat. to release notes
[21:37:23] <Platonides>	sigh, what an illogical system
[21:37:45] <Reedy>	We have some post grads (going for their doctorets) etc teaching sometimes
[21:38:02] <Platonides>	Reedy, I'm also quite stubborn arguing with teachers ;)
[21:38:13] *^demon 	sighs
[21:38:17] <^demon>	Oh VCU....
[21:38:18] <Reedy>	Its always funny
[21:38:29] <CIA-12>	03mkroetzsch * r57156 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_QP_List.php: fixed iteration (do not prefetch all data; use official iterators)
[21:39:10] <^demon>	And he's already 10 minutes late :P
[21:40:11] <Reedy>	probably forgotten
[21:40:16] <Reedy>	^demon, go teach it :P
[21:40:29] <^demon>	This other guy said "I can teach PHP"
[21:40:41] <Reedy>	hahaha
[21:40:51] <Alphos>	[23:30:58] <^demon> werdna: He's not a programmer. He's a grad student working on a degree in networking theory :P /// you mean a kid with an ant farm and a magnifying glass ? :p
[21:41:07] <llorca>	anyone can learn php
[21:41:08] <^demon>	Hahaha
[21:41:12] <Splarka>	probably a self-correcting system
[21:41:27] <llorca>	you try what you think might work, and when php spits out some random garbage, you figure out why, fix it, and move forward with your buggy code :D
[21:41:50] <llorca>	That variable is a string... but for you, I'll let you use it as whatever the heck you want
[21:42:06] <Splarka>	anyone who knows PHP well enough to actually teach it either: doesn't teach it because it sucks; or teaches it accurately enough to scare away any potential future users, which then prevents a generation from learning it, causing someone unfamiliar with it to teach it as they're the only type available
[21:42:37] <^demon>	Damn, he showed up.
[21:42:38] <llorca>	which is why its the greatest web programming language evarrr
[21:43:18] <Splarka>	if ( $programmer->usesPHP() && $programmer instanceof CrazyPerson /*A given, but lets check anyway*/ ) { echo "you idiot, why are you using PHP"; }
[21:43:37] <^demon>	Rule #1 of PHP: Types? Forget them!
[21:43:52] <Alphos>	because (($programmer instanceof CrazyPerson) === true)
[21:44:12] <Alphos>	Splarka : the answer is ALWAYS in the conditions :)
[21:44:39] <Alphos>	your while() {} is buggy ? check what's in the round brackets !
[21:45:10] <Alphos>	your if () {} doesn't output the right thing ? ckeck what's in the round brackets !
[21:45:12] <^demon>	while( $professor->isTalking() ) { sleep(10); }
[21:46:01] <Alphos>	^demon : you're talking of a very serious bug in your condition there ;p
[21:46:08] <Splarka>	^demon: live stream the lecture and set up a screen projector to the side of the prof to display an IRC channel of "feedback"
[21:46:22] <Platonides>	xDD
[21:46:27] <^demon>	Splarka: Best. Idea. Ever.
[21:46:31] <Alphos>	isTalking() { return true; }
[21:46:49] <Reedy>	hahahaha
[21:46:52] <Reedy>	doooeeeeet
[21:47:18] <Splarka>	put a facial recognition system in the camera feed that blanks the feedback screen whenever the professor turns his head
[21:47:23] <Reedy>	"You're doing it alllll wrong"
[21:47:33] <Splarka>	or puts up some helpful php tips
[21:47:50] <CIA-12>	03mkroetzsch * r57158 10/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/specials/SearchTriple/SMW_SpecialBrowse.php: use datavalue instead of Title object
[21:47:55] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57157 10/trunk/extensions/ (37 files in 36 dirs): Localisation updates for extension messages from translatewiki.net (2009-09-30 20:46 UTC)
[21:48:08] <^demon>	Helpful PHP tip #49: it's probably not your fault, it's probably PHP's fault.
[21:48:46] <Splarka>	hey, that's a good reason to use PHP, the only thing you can be blamed for is choosing PHP (which is often not even your choice, for existing projects), you can't be blamed for any bugs
[21:49:11] <Alphos>	Splarka : pebcak still exists though, even with php programmers
[21:49:16] <Alphos>	can't blame php for all
[21:49:32] <Alphos>	if you don't trust me, read ##php :D
[21:49:34] <Splarka>	"you caused an accidental launch of a thermonuclear device with your buggy code, you precipitated World War III! 8 billion people are dead! what do you have to say for yourself?" "PHP sucks" "Oh, well, there is that"
[21:49:58] <Alphos>	[23:48:47] <guy> any ideas anyone how could I parse JS array? /// a minute ago
[21:50:07] <Alphos>	(yes, on ##php)
[21:50:37] <RoanKattouw>	json_decode()
[21:51:01] *^demon 	json_encode()'s RoanKattouw
[21:51:03] <Alphos>	RoanKattouw, the question now becomes : why would anyone want to do that ? :p
[21:51:24] *RoanKattouw 	is now { 'firstname': 'Roan', 'lastname': 'Kattouw' }
[21:51:33] <Alphos>	:D
[21:51:39] <cirwin>	RoanKattouw: wrong quotes!!!!
[21:52:09] <RoanKattouw>	Meh
[21:52:12] <RoanKattouw>	At least it's valid JS
[21:52:20] *RoanKattouw 	inserts a trailing comma to annoy IE
[21:52:24] <cirwin>	:)
[21:55:22] <wikibugs>	03(NEW) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913 enhancement; Normal; MediaWiki: Revision deletion; (FT2.wiki)
[21:57:10] <wikibugs>	03(mod) SMWResultArray changes in SMW 1.5 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20904  (10markus)
[22:01:04] <brion>	ok... letting core do its merge while i go poke at some more extensions...
[22:03:08] <^demon>	brion: Got a copy of War & Peace while that merge finishes? :p
[22:03:29] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: He's got a copy of trunk/extensions , that'll do
[22:04:41] <brion>	hehe
[22:06:23] <werdna>	I've set up http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
[22:06:38] <thedj>	i'm have commons set as my local shared repo.
[22:06:46] <thedj>	but image redirects on commons don't work for me.
[22:06:49] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57159 10/trunk/phase3/ (67 files in 2 dirs): Localisation updates for core messages from translatewiki.net (2009-09-30 20:46 UTC)
[22:06:52] <thedj>	is there a special setting for that ?
[22:07:47] <Reedy>	brion, thats another ;)
[22:07:59] *brion 	shakes fist :)
[22:08:03] <Reedy>	haha
[22:08:11] <brion>	thedj: ForeignApiRepo may need to be updated for that
[22:08:22] *^demon 	hides
[22:08:25] <^demon>	Don't look at me!
[22:08:58] <werdna>	brion: would non-regenerated l10n cache also break magic words? :(
[22:09:07] <brion>	maybe
[22:09:18] <werdna>	well, http://liquidthreads.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Rights_requests
[22:09:20] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913  (10JSchulz_4587)
[22:09:23] *^demon 	stabs him
[22:09:23] *werdna 	grumbles
[22:09:31] <^demon>	He's claiming you can use short tags.
[22:09:34] <^demon>	All the time
[22:09:36] *^demon 	cries
[22:10:06] <^demon>	I tried to explain short_tags, but he said I'm wrong.
[22:10:24] <Skizzerz>	uh... isn't short_tags DISABLED by default in php.ini?
[22:10:27] <^demon>	Yes.
[22:10:29] <^demon>	That's what I said.
[22:10:32] <^demon>	He said I'm wrong.
[22:10:32] <Skizzerz>	k, that's what I thought
[22:11:20] <Skizzerz>	who is this person?
[22:11:28] <^demon>	The TA for my course.
[22:11:32] <Skizzerz>	lol
[22:11:36] <Skizzerz>	point him to the php manual
[22:11:50] <thedj>	brion: you mean that because i use commons apibase, and that this not yet supports these imageredirects ?
[22:12:09] <^demon>	If this doesn't improve soon I'm leaving. It's rather painful.
[22:12:14] <brion>	right, i don't think it knows to ask for redirects to be deref'd
[22:13:17] <Skizzerz>	weird
[22:13:20] <Reedy>	^demon, is it registered?
[22:13:24] <Skizzerz>	in the manual, it says it's enabled by default
[22:13:45] <^demon>	Image redirects in ForeignApiRepo are wonky. I spent like 2 days playing with them but gave up.
[22:13:55] <^demon>	My offiicial reccomendation is to not use them.
[22:14:11] <Skizzerz>	http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php
[22:14:12] <thedj>	well with file moving enabled, that's too late :D
[22:14:35] <Splarka>	file moving isn't to blame, don't shoot the poor messenger
[22:14:47] <thedj>	no, but it makes the problem more clear
[22:14:47] <CIA-12>	03tparscal * r57160 10/trunk/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Improved icons used in link dialog. Added extra error icon which is not yet in use but may be an alternative to the invalid icon. Adjusted some padding for dialog tables.
[22:14:52] <Splarka>	heh
[22:14:53] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913  +comment (10FT2.wiki)
[22:16:09] <Splarka>	thedj: some have found a workaround: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Splarka/sandbox&oldid=29267366
[22:16:21] <Splarka>	delete/suppress the redirect! woot
[22:18:41] <thedj>	oh wait, the api still generates errors on redirects.
[22:18:51] <thedj>	the fix wasn't synced yet of course.
[22:19:12] <RoanKattouw>	^demon: Keep php.net at the ready :)
[22:19:48] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: I have it set as one of my search sites in Firefox :)
[22:20:52] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913  (10FT2.wiki)
[22:23:32] <brion>	svn: Attempt to add tree conflict that already exists
[22:23:34] <brion>	oh fuck you svn
[22:24:01] <RoanKattouw>	I love the svn error message about "cannot merge a working copy's future history"
[22:24:04] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57161 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/OpenStreetMap/ (Potlatch.yml README): Prepare Potlatch support
[22:24:09] *tomaszf 	hands brion a shiv to stab svn with
[22:24:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913  (10JSchulz_4587)
[22:24:14] <brion>	tx
[22:24:48] <^demon>	"PHP is not object oriented"
[22:25:03] <^demon>	I raised my hand. Violently. He's ignoring me.
[22:25:43] <RoanKattouw>	lol
[22:26:00] <werdna>	brion: <3 svn
[22:26:08] <RoanKattouw>	Perhaps he means PHP is not "truly" OO like Java is
[22:26:26] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57162 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/OpenStreetMap/ (OpenStreetMap.yml Potlatch.yml): OSM related tweaks
[22:26:46] <RoanKattouw>	brion: How do you even get tree conflicts? I've never had them
[22:27:17] <brion>	it seems to be a new feature in 1.6
[22:27:23] <brion>	i'm still not entirely sure what they are :D
[22:27:24] <Aaron|away>	lol
[22:27:42] <RoanKattouw>	Nice "feature"
[22:30:15] <brion>	ok resolved the tree conflicts, now continuing the merge... i hope
[22:31:19] <tomaszf>	brion: if you win your war against trees i might get you this .. http://www.babywit.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/TREEWARMENlg.jpg
[22:31:28] <brion>	:DD
[22:31:45] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57163 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/OpenStreetMap/OpenStreetMap.yml: Change OpenStreetMap label
[22:31:55] <^demon>	RoanKattouw: He finally let me speak. I went into the brief history OOP PHP, how it was kinda "tacked on" over time.
[22:32:01] <brion>	man, now i need a baby so i can buy those awesome baby shirts
[22:32:06] <brion>	hey TrevorParscal are you using both of those?
[22:32:17] <tomaszf>	rofl
[22:32:33] <NivFreak>	is there a sane way to add another javascript to all skins? I was looking a maybe tweaking Skins.php
[22:33:03] <^demon>	Blah I'm leaving early. Not dealing with this anymore.
[22:33:45] *tomaszf 	continues back to bug list for dumpHTML
[22:33:48] <brion>	NivFreak: extensions can do that pretty easy
[22:34:07] <NivFreak>	yea
[22:34:11] <NivFreak>	I was looking at one that did it
[22:34:14] <NivFreak>	it looked a little outdated
[22:34:30] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Gallery does not support image redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20907  (10hartman)
[22:34:39] <NivFreak>	I was just wondering if there was any supported method developed in the last 2 years ;)
[22:35:34] <brion>	heh
[22:35:42] <TrevorParscal>	ha ha  shirt = funny
[22:35:43] <brion>	well there's the brand-new js2 stuff, not sure how stable any of that is :D
[22:38:25] <werdna>	NivFreak: SkinTemplate or Skin, I don't remmber
[22:38:29] <werdna>	search for ajaxcategories, that does it
[22:39:06] <NivFreak>	k
[22:39:56] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57164 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/lqt.js: LiquidThreads: Scroll to top of updated thread when update is complete.
[22:40:49] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57165 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/OpenStreetMap/Potlatch.yml: Update ignored list
[22:42:49] <CIA-12>	03siebrand * r57166 10/trunk/extensions/Translate/groups/OpenStreetMap/Potlatch.yml: Ignored to optional
[22:50:34] <brion>	there! my merge finally started showing output again :D
[22:55:33] <CIA-12>	03tomasz * r57167 10/trunk/extensions/DumpHTML/ (dumpHTML.inc dumpHTML.php): adding vector as a skin option
[23:00:29] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Watchlist RSS feed should use 301 redirect to change token on every view - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20840  (10Simetrical+wikibugs)
[23:02:00] <CIA-12>	03tparscal * r57168 10/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
[23:02:00] <CIA-12>	Decided to go with yet another approach for adding extra stylesheets for Vector (so that we can test new ideas out and keep our CSS in the SVN).
[23:02:00] <CIA-12>	1. Removed ExperiementalSkins extension
[23:02:00] <CIA-12>	2. Added $wgVectorExtraStyles to DefaultSettings.php
[23:02:00] <CIA-12>	3. Added code in Vector.php that adds in any extra styles defined just after adding in the main style
[23:05:46] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57169 10/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads/classes/View.php: Make sure we only use scratch titles for unspecified subjects if a subject is actually required (as opposed to, say, replying).
[23:06:29] <CIA-12>	03tparscal * r57170 10/trunk/phase3/skins/vector/experiments/ (. babaco-colors-a.css babaco-colors-b.css): Added 2 sample experimental CSS files. Adam can take it from here...
[23:08:08] <CIA-12>	03werdna * r57171 10/branches/wmf-deployment/extensions/LiquidThreads/ (. classes/View.php): Merge r57169, fix for LiquidThreads scratch titles.
[23:12:20] <CIA-12>	03aaron * r57172 10/trunk/phase3/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added 'rev-suppressed-unhide-diff'
[23:13:53] <TrevorParscal>	you have interesting email
[23:14:00] <werdna>	?
[23:14:05] <TrevorParscal>	oops
[23:14:09] <TrevorParscal>	wrong channel
[23:14:22] *tomaszf 	stabs dumpHTML
[23:14:33] <werdna>	tomaszf: dumpHTML hates you too
[23:15:40] <tomaszf>	then this is going to be a very turbulent interaction 
[23:15:51] <TodWulff>	lol
[23:16:55] <CIA-12>	03brion * r57173 10/trunk/extensions/ProofreadPage/ (ProofreadPage.i18n.php SpecialProofreadPages.php): 
[23:16:55] <CIA-12>	Revert r57115, r57123 "search capability"
[23:16:55] <CIA-12>	Tied to MySQL search backend's raw database tables, would be useless on Wikimedia sites.
[23:17:13] <wikibugs>	03(mod) Interface messages: two quick fixes (one missing message, one missing parameter) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20913  (10JSchulz_4587)
[23:20:35] <GreenReaper>	You people and your "Wikimedia sites"
[23:20:44] <GreenReaper>	;-)
[23:20:50] <GreenReaper>	Some of us still use MySQL!
[23:21:19] <brion>	:)
[23:21:21] <brion>	suckers
[23:21:38] <GreenReaper>	Pfft.
[23:21:42] *^demon 	is still working on DatabaseStoneTablets
[23:21:43] *GreenReaper 	implemented interwiki search for that.
[23:21:54] <GreenReaper>	And when I say "implemented", it's a hack.
[23:22:23] <GreenReaper>	Works fine for us, though. :-)
[23:25:19] <CIA-12>	03yaron * r57174 10/trunk/extensions/ExternalData/ED_Utils.php: Added handling for $edgAllowSSL
[23:26:30] <CIA-12>	03yaron * r57175 10/trunk/extensions/ExternalData/ExternalData.php: Added $edgAllowSSL setting
[23:26:31] <werdna>	will be headed to snoozy-land soon
[23:26:55] <werdna>	^demon: what about DatabaseQuantumState?
[23:27:04] <werdna>	The article text changes every time you read it
[23:27:14] <CIA-12>	03yaron * r57176 10/trunk/extensions/ExternalData/README: New version: 0.9.1
[23:27:14] <^demon>	Mmmmm, sexy.
[23:51:31] <ThomasV>	arf
[23:51:59] <ThomasV>	brion: is the SearchEngine class the right way to do it?
[23:52:12] <brion>	most likely yes :)
[23:52:29] <ThomasV>	:)
[23:52:38] <^demon>	Curious, is the Mediawiki namespace indexed?
[23:52:56] <brion>	where the pages actually exist, sure
[23:53:14] <^demon>	Hmm
[23:53:22] <^demon>	Well that's not useful to me :)
[23:54:07] <brion>	:)
[23:54:52] <mpage>	hey I had a question about the lucene search plugin for mediawiki? Is there a way to tweak the scoring of documents that are returned?
[23:55:16] <wknight8111>	I have a namespace_id from the page table, how do I translate that into the actual namespace name?
[23:55:56] <wknight8111>	is there a table somewhere with the name that I can join on, or a PHP function that I can call?
[23:59:20] <OverlordQ>	yea but I can't think of it off hand lol