[00:04:16] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MarkAHershberger; "> Is space significant around a Math equation?" [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4422
[00:10:57] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MarkAHershberger; "http://krt3.lsu.edu/training/latex/latex.html#spaces" [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4422
[00:22:17] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) SVGs state "No higher resolution available" on file description page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35821 normal; MediaWiki: Images and files; (rd232)
[00:53:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Cannot scroll low enough to see all content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35551  +comment (10Killiondude)
[01:18:26] <potter>	 !seen bawolff
[01:18:28] <Petanbot>	 bawolff (~bawolff@wikinews/bawolff) was last seen quitting from #mediawiki 23 hours, 47 minutes ago stating (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 {[Iceweasel} 3.5.16/20110302220840\]).
[01:18:37] <potter>	 !seen ialex
[01:18:39] <Petanbot>	 ialex (~IAlex@mediawiki/pdpc.active.ialex) was last seen quitting from #mediawiki 9 days, 3 hours, 44 minutes ago stating (Quit: ialex).
[01:41:01] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Cannot scroll low enough to see all content - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35551  +comment (10Amgine)
[01:53:04] <DanielFriesen>	 Heh... looking deeper I think git REALLY doesn't work with diffs...
[01:54:14] <DanielFriesen>	 From the sounds of it git doesn't store commits as deltas as I thought it would have...
[01:54:29] <DanielFriesen>	 It stores the entire file contents in a blob.
[01:54:50] <DanielFriesen>	 ;) It gets it's efficiency because it has such an awesomely efficient packfile format.
[01:55:32] <DanielFriesen>	 That might be fun to try and addapting into an external storage format.
[02:07:37] <Cook_Me_Plox>	 Hello guys, are there any graphing extensions that create interactive graphs instead of just static pictures?
[02:13:42] <dcht00>	 hi all 
[02:13:45] <dcht00>	 what do you think of this? http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net/
[02:13:53] <dcht00>	 it looks like something I've been looking for and I'm wondering if someone got it working / experiences / ... :)
[02:18:19] <p858snake|l>	 dcht00: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:External_editors
[02:20:17] <dcht00>	 What if I'd like an application to simply read & edit wiki pages?
[02:21:30] <dcht00>	 you think using the API would be better suited? http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page
[02:23:15] <JRWR>	 I think it might just be something I did, but why is my active users -1 on this page: http://wiki0x10c.com/wiki/Special:Statistics
[02:24:39] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Output preview should go through Tidy if Tidy is used to process article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35822 normal; MediaWiki extensions: ExpandTemplates; (liangent)
[02:33:06] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Wikijunior and cookbook namespaces for the Vietnamese Wikibooks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35823 normal; Wikimedia: Site requests; (mxn)
[02:43:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35601   +need-review +patch; +comment (10Sumana Harihareswara)
[02:48:54] <DanielFriesen>	 T_T I've returned to proc hell
[03:06:41] <^Mike>	 I guess ipb-blockingself must mean I am being stopped because I'm blocking myself - but that's what I want. How can I override or avoid this API error?
[03:07:18] <Joan>	 You want to block yourself?
[03:07:43] <p858snake|l>	 Joan: gosh, it's what all the cook kids do
[03:07:49] <Joan>	 cool
[03:07:51] <^Mike>	 Yes, for testing.
[03:07:53] <DanielFriesen>	 Hah! By proc_hell, hello git abuse!!!
[03:07:58] <DanielFriesen>	 Bye*
[03:09:22] <DanielFriesen>	 http://dpaste.org/sbyCx/
[03:09:57] <Joan>	 ^Mike: I'm looking.
[03:10:13] <^Mike>	 awesome, thanks
[03:10:25] <^Mike>	 It isn't documented in the api help page, or the on-wiki docs
[03:11:15] <Joan>	 >
[03:11:17] <Joan>	 			# Give admins a heads-up before they go and block themselves.  Much messier
[03:11:20] <Joan>	 			# to do this for IPs, but it's pretty unlikely they'd ever get the 'block'
[03:11:23] <Joan>	 			# permission anyway, although the code does allow for it.
[03:11:25] <Joan>	 			# Note: Important to use $target instead of $data['Target']
[03:11:28] <Joan>	 			# since both $data['PreviousTarget'] and $target are normalized
[03:11:30] <Joan>	 			# but $data['target'] gets overriden by (non-normalized) request variable
[03:11:33] <Joan>	 			# from previous request.
[03:11:35] <Joan>	 			if( $target === $performer->getName() &&
[03:11:38] <Joan>	 				( $data['PreviousTarget'] !== $target || !$data['Confirm'] ) )
[03:11:40] <Joan>	 			{
[03:11:43] <Joan>	 				return array( 'ipb-blockingself' );
[03:11:45] <Joan>	 			}
[03:11:48] <Joan>	 >
[03:11:50] <Joan>	 So it looks like you need to specify a confirm parameter of some kind.
[03:12:00] <Joan>	 Which is a hidden value in the form.
[03:12:34] <^Mike>	 I'm using the API, I can't even look for hidden elements in the UI :)
[03:13:29] <Joan>	 <input id="mw-input-wpConfirm" name="wpConfirm" type="hidden" />
[03:13:34] <Joan>	 You might be able to specify one of those?
[03:13:36] <Joan>	 Dunno.
[03:24:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 return array( 'ipb-blockingself' );
[03:24:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 deep
[03:25:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 you sure you do not want to put it on an infinite loop?
[03:28:25] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Eloquence; "Fix for chunked uploading support in API." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4544
[03:29:42] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4544
[03:42:00] <badon>	 Do criminals get copyright protection? For example, this coin is a fake being advertised as genuine, and I stole the image so it could be annotated to protect potential victims: http://www.coincompendium.com/w/index.php/File:1333942588-6317.jpg
[03:42:31] <badon>	 I'm not sure if I should respect copyrights in such circumstances.
[03:42:49] <p858snake|l>	 You would get better responce asking in another channel that isn't dedicated to MW development
[03:43:03] <badon>	 oh, whoops, thought I was in #wikipedia
[04:23:36] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Language and direction of first heading should depend on page content language instead of user interface language - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34514  +comment (10Amir E. Aharoni)
[04:27:30] * DanielFriesen  wonders if he went overboard

[04:58:23] <DanielFriesen>	 Aaaaagghhhhhh... it's a tug-of-war of language advantages-disadvantages...
[05:02:57] <DanielFriesen>	 Ruby: Piles of libraries. Great process api and piles of other things I'd need; No, Python+Django, it's got smilar levels of good api, and django has good user handling built in; No, but Ruby has JRuby, if we need to we can easily start usng JGit.
[05:04:49] <YuviPanda>	 DanielFriesen: also https://www.samba.org/~jelmer/dulwich/
[05:05:59] <YuviPanda>	 DanielFriesen: it is reasonably complete + stable (hg and bzr use it for their git interop, apparently)
[05:06:10] <YuviPanda>	 + pure python, so no install hell yay
[05:06:55] <PiRSquared>	 Would it be feasible to make a log of edits which are blocked by the local/global spam blacklist?
[05:11:11] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Need a way to debug exceptions thrown from my ResourceLoader module "Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35814  +comment (10Dmitriy Sintsov)
[05:17:11] <Sieva_>	 [QUESTION] I just installed a fresh 1.18.2, imported an sql dump, confirmed import, restarted apache2 and mysql, and the wiki doesn't seem to have integrated any of the data... any takers?
[05:22:17] <Joan>	 Sieva_: Is LocalSettings.php configured to read from the appropriate database?
[05:22:25] <Joan>	 The same database where you imported the data?
[05:22:37] <Joan>	 How'd you import the data?
[05:23:24] <Sieva_>	 CLI
[05:23:51] <Sieva_>	 imported to the db that the web installation was hooked to
[05:23:58] <DanielFriesen>	 YuviPanda: I looked at that shortly ago... I haven't found a single acceptible git library yet... pleny of them are missing something as simple as "fetch commits from <x> remote"
[05:24:08] <YuviPanda>	 DanielFriesen: ah
[05:24:23] <DanielFriesen>	 At this rate I may go high level...
[05:24:25] <Joan>	 Sieva_: You imported into an existing DB?
[05:24:27] <YuviPanda>	 DanielFriesen: you could write the app in bash :D
[05:24:33] <DanielFriesen>	 lol
[05:24:38] <Sieva_>	 @Joan: Yes
[05:24:40] <Joan>	 Were you moving the wiki or something?
[05:24:49] <Sieva_>	 yes, moving to new box
[05:25:12] <Joan>	 Well, if you're not seeing the new data,
[05:25:14] <wikibugs>	 04(REOPENED) "oversighter", "oversight", "unoversight", "hide" and "unhide" messages are very unclear - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35026  +comment (10Amir E. Aharoni)
[05:25:20] <Joan>	 I'd say it's either reading from the wrong place.
[05:25:23] <Joan>	 Or you're hitting cache.
[05:25:46] <Sieva_>	 hmm... ill clear APC. brb, thank you!
[05:26:26] <sDrewth>	 is anyone around to explain create account, auto creation and interaction with the filter action == 'createaccount'
[05:26:45] <Joan>	 I'd imagine the filter doesn't account for auto-creation.
[05:26:48] <Joan>	 But that's just a guess.
[05:26:50] <sDrewth>	 the subtleties are interesting, so I am after some clarification
[05:27:03] <sDrewth>	 yep, that would be my guess
[05:27:27] <sDrewth>	 well, that would be my expectation with the evidence to hand
[05:29:15] <Sieva_>	 @Joan: nope, not cache. using show tables for the db given in localsettings, it has all the relevant tables shown. maybe the db structure didn't like the import, and the import just bloated the db with unreadable table structure?
[05:29:42] <Joan>	 Sieva_: Can you select from the page table?
[05:29:48] <Joan>	 Does it have page titles?
[05:29:57] <Joan>	 select * from page limit 1;
[05:29:59] <Joan>	 Or something.
[05:33:51] <Sieva_>	 returns info on monobook.css :/
[05:34:41] <Sieva_>	 should i import to a completely empty table and redirect localsettings?
[05:38:53] <Joan>	 How'd you dump the database?
[05:38:55] <Joan>	 mysqldump?
[05:39:07] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) autocreation of accounts skips filter action == 'createaccount' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35824 normal; MediaWiki extensions: AbuseFilter; (billinghurst)
[05:39:24] <Joan>	 I'd not do a fresh install DB merge with exported data.
[05:39:27] <Joan>	 That seems like asking for trouble.
[05:39:36] <Joan>	 I'd just dump and then import in and have the import make the new DB.
[05:39:54] <Joan>	 Then copy your LocalSettings.php file over and make the appropriate changes to $wgDbname, etc.
[05:42:49] <p858snake|l>	 Sieva_: have you looked at our guide for moving your wiki?
[05:43:19] <Sieva_>	 yes, was working from that.
[05:43:25] <Sieva_>	 dumped from CLI 
[05:44:26] <Sieva_>	 attempting fresh db and redirect localsettings now. 
[05:50:12] * DanielFriesen  seriously does not understand why php requires a timezone setting

[05:50:49] * johnduhart  shrugs

[05:51:17] <Beau_>	 DanielFriesen: I blame lack of design... ;)
[05:53:12] <Amgine>	 php does a lot of stupid crap up front that you really don't need to have done/waste a chunk of performance. Some of it requires timezones. Why? there is no reason.
[05:59:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Need a way to debug exceptions thrown from my ResourceLoader module "Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35814  +comment (10Dmitriy Sintsov)
[06:08:22] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) fullurl arguments exposing nowiki stripmarkers - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35825 normal; MediaWiki: Parser; (sumurai8)
[06:29:41] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Santhosh; "Fix Bug 33658 - Add support for {{GRAMMAR:}} to the mediawiki.jqueryMsg module" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4078
[06:30:15] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Protool neutral link from https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access#Giving_users_Labs_access.2C_if_they_don.27t_already_have_SVN_access - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35826 normal; Wikimedia Labs: Unspecified; (billinghurst)
[06:30:27] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Protocol neutral link from https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access#Giving_users_Labs_access.2C_if_they_don.27t_already_have_SVN_access - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35826  summary (10billinghurst)
[06:30:59] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4078
[07:02:15] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Hashar; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/AntiSpoof] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3410
[07:02:18] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [mediawiki/extensions/AntiSpoof] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3410
[07:05:27] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Hashar; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4551
[07:08:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Hashar; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4521
[07:08:41] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4521
[07:37:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Protocol neutral link from https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access#Giving_users_Labs_access.2C_if_they_don.27t_already_have_SVN_access - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35826  normal->15enhancement (10Peter Bena)
[07:39:47] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) CheckExtensionsCLI instantiates PremadeMediawikiExtensionGroups with incorrect constructor parameters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35804  +comment (10Niklas Laxström)
[07:48:08] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Gerrit uses flash - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35800  +comment (10Niklas Laxström)
[07:50:25] <exbeinfo>	 Anyone understand how templates will collaborate with wiki engine, I've learned  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-01-30/Technology_report  and got surprized :-)
[07:53:04] <MarioSmasher>	 Hello, is there any "Who's online"?
[07:53:58] <vvv>	 In MediaWiki?
[07:54:09] <vvv>	 No, at least in core
[07:54:15] <vvv>	 There may be extensions for that
[07:54:48] <MarioSmasher>	 How?
[07:56:50] <MarioSmasher>	 I mean, is it in the download?
[08:19:51] <grunny>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WhosOnline
[08:38:29] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: IAlex; "Check that the result of Title::makeTitleSafe() is an object before calling a method on it." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4552
[08:39:47] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4552
[08:43:03] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) [Regression] Edit summary shouldn't be parsed as wikitext into html in e-mail notifications - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35019  +comment (10Alexandre Emsenhuber [IAlex])
[08:43:04] <wikibugs>	 14(DUP) Templates used in edit summaries are expanded in e-mail notifications - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34714  +comment (10Alexandre Emsenhuber [IAlex])
[08:44:24] <joancreus>	 Joan uh oh is it working properly, the ping config?
[08:56:03] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Introduce custom events for MediaWiki's front-end flow - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30713  (10joan.creus.c)
[09:07:55] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Santhosh; "Grammar rules ported to js" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4554
[09:07:59] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Santhosh; "Fix Bug 33658 - Add support for {{GRAMMAR:}} to the mediawiki.jqueryMsg module" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4078
[09:09:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4554
[09:10:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4078
[09:13:17] <codurr>	 New code comment: Mihalienkelejd; http://www.emcollections.net/default_en.asp; <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114689#c32644>
[09:43:39] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Special:UserRights does not accept GET params - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35827 normal; MediaWiki: Special pages; (danny.b)
[09:44:56] <chughakshay16>	 saper : hi saper, some help !
[09:45:50] <chughakshay16>	 saper : how to read a tag from wikitext using parser ?
[09:47:19] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke , hello
[09:47:41] <gwicke>	 hi chughakshay16
[09:48:04] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: how to read a tag from wikitext using parser object..?
[09:48:33] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: you can register a parser hook
[09:49:06] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Tag_extensions
[09:49:28] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: yeah i went through this page.. but still not very clear about how to do it
[09:49:43] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: did you try the sample code?
[09:49:56] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Grant the abusefilter-log-detail right to patrollers on Commons - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35545  +comment (10Rainer@Rillke.eu)
[09:49:57] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Enable $wgAllowCopyUploads (upload by URL) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/20512  (10Rainer@Rillke.eu)
[09:50:04] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: what if i dont want to do it with a hook ?
[09:50:33] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: then describe what you actually want
[09:50:37] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: i have stored a <sample></sample> tag in a page content.. and now i want to read its attributes.. how should i do it ?
[09:51:03] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Sometimes the nearby layer can be scrolled up to reveal the web page beneath it. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35828 normal; Wikipedia App: Near by; (liangent)
[09:51:07] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: a parser hook is pretty much the only supported way to do that
[09:52:00] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: what if i extract wikitext for a page from the text table.. and now i want to read the attributes of my <sample> tag.. ?
[09:52:11] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: cant i do it any other way ?
[09:52:40] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: you can always parse the text yourself
[09:53:31] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: yeah but for that i would have develop new code to parse it.. isnt there any parser function already available which just extracts the tag i am looking for ?
[09:54:36] <gwicke>	 chughakshay16: tag hooks do just that
[09:54:44] <joancreus>	 ideas on how to get all diffs from a specific wikipedia? right now i'm trying to get from the revision table and searching with a regexp in rev_comment, but i wonder if there's something more effective (maybe looking on the recentchanges table?)
[09:57:17] <chughakshay16>	 gwicke: i dont know how to explain u what exactly i am trying to do.. :)
[10:00:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) API imageinfo query returns no imageinfo data when asking for redirect and redirect target - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/31849  +comment (10Rainer@Rillke.eu)
[10:11:08] <potter>	 varnent: hello
[10:33:07] <joancreus>	 or, maybe, a way to get the previous revision?
[10:44:27] <Tim_Weyer>	 joancreus: I didn't read everything but API might help you#
[10:44:48] <Tim_Weyer>	 you should ask one who knows how to deal with API
[10:46:45] <Beau_>	 joancreus: all diffs? download a dump of database with full history (it is an xml file)
[10:46:57] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) A general interwiki language link to oldwikisource is required - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32189  +comment (10Robin Pepermans (SPQRobin))
[10:50:03] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) WikiStats comparison charts of (very) active users are broken, 0 is shown as missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35829 normal; Wikimedia: Usage Statistics; (federicoleva)
[10:51:53] <joancreus>	 Tim_Weyer: Beau_ i've thought of using api/dumps/mysql. api definitely not, because there'd be too many requests. the problem with dumps/mysql is that i cannot find which are reversions, and which are not
[10:53:14] <Qcoder00>	 Beau: Have you changed the Proofread page code ? http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta is not behaving correctly
[10:53:30] <Beau_>	 joancreus: why not? just compare the revision you are processing with earlier ones, if it matches, then current edit was a revert
[10:53:53] <Beau_>	 it has n^2 complexity, but it works ;)
[10:54:02] <Qcoder00>	 Beau: And I'm getting rather frustrated that this inconsistency of behaviour occurs EVERY single time I try to do section transcludes
[10:54:23] <Qcoder00>	 I don't like playing hunt the obscure typo, EVERY single time
[10:54:31] <joancreus>	 hmm ok
[10:55:12] <Beau_>	 joancreus: you can build a hash table to speed the things up if it is too slow, but I would go with simpliest solution first :)
[10:55:31] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Transwiki import to multilingual (old) wikisource broken - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32411  +comment (10Doug)
[10:55:52] <joancreus>	 the other way, Beau_ , is look at the recentchanges table but it only lasts 30 days
[10:55:53] <Beau_>	 Qcoder00: I don't think there were any deployments of PP code recently
[10:56:00] <Qcoder00>	 OK
[10:56:15] <Qcoder00>	 So why does the transclude 'break'?
[10:56:19] <Beau_>	 joancreus: recentchanges table does not contain information if the edit is a revert or not
[10:56:29] <joancreus>	 Beau_: rev_last_id ?
[10:56:30] <Qcoder00>	 And include stuff that's CLEARLY after the end of named section?
[10:56:38] <Beau_>	 joancreus: that just id of previous revision
[10:56:54] <joancreus>	 :O what i can also do is rev_comment LIKE 'Revertides%'
[10:56:58] <joancreus>	 but that needs l10n
[10:57:07] <joancreus>	 and still, no oldid
[10:57:07] <Beau_>	 joancreus: compare revision texts
[10:57:10] <joancreus>	 i'll go with your solution
[10:57:13] <joancreus>	 of comparing
[10:57:15] <joancreus>	 thanks!!
[10:58:57] <Beau_>	 Qcoder00: hmm... 
[10:59:17] <Qcoder00>	 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu/45 is what is being transcluded from
[10:59:38] <Qcoder00>	 And aif you check the markup for the page the sections ARE clearly labelled
[11:00:02] <Qcoder00>	 It seems that Proofread Page can'c cope with sections inside tables 
[11:00:22] <Qcoder00>	 Or that there is an obscure typo that causes it to misbehave
[11:01:04] <Beau_>	 Qcoder00: I don't think that this is LST or PP fault, It does not modify the transcluded text
[11:01:18] <Qcoder00>	 Well please explain why the transclude breaks 
[11:03:07] <Beau_>	 Qcoder00: sure :-) https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29%2FVolume1%2FMagna_Carta&diff=3735805&oldid=3735796
[11:03:27] <Qcoder00>	 Well that now works
[11:03:41] <Qcoder00>	 but I'd had the exact same code as you before and it did NOT
[11:04:02] <Beau_>	 Qcoder00: that was the only change I made
[11:04:10] <Qcoder00>	 Strange
[11:08:59] <Qcoder00>	 Anyway how is the  onlysection idea coming along?
[11:15:33] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Santhosh; "Introduce useosk=true as alternate method to enable osk feature and other bug fixes, cleanup" [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4555
[11:15:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Santhosh; "Add initial version of optional onscreen keyboard support." [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4070
[11:19:00] <Krenair>	 Platonides, "Could we magically convert $wgFilterCallback into hooks?" - You want to change every call to $wgFilterCallback into a hook?
[11:19:56] <Qcoder00>	 Beau :  Hmm
[11:20:30] <Qcoder00>	 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta Can we take this to PM, because I still seem to be having issues getting stuff to transclude properly
[11:20:33] <Qcoder00>	 ?
[11:21:17] <DanielFriesen>	 Fu... wha? `echo (binary) 'foo';`
[11:23:39] <pouyanster>	 hey everyone! can someone help me on spam prevention?
[11:24:08] <pouyanster>	 I want to hide external links on the wiki until they are approved
[11:24:27] <Qcoder00>	 pouyanster: I'm not sure that's currently possible
[11:24:51] <pouyanster>	 Qcoder00: do you have any other suggestions?
[11:25:16] <Qcoder00>	 I don't
[11:25:36] <pouyanster>	 Qcoder00: we want to avoid black/white list filtering and the idea was to take external links as a hint
[11:26:20] <pouyanster>	 thanks anyway.
[11:32:26] <Qcoder00>	 Beau_: Next question - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta The column widths should be the same...
[11:33:02] <Qcoder00>	 They aren't despite setting up the table exactly the same as I did in  - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Statutes_of_Merton
[11:37:34] <Qcoder00>	 Also in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta at the bottom there is a sidenote showing up where it's shouldn't
[11:37:44] <Qcoder00>	 It's not present in the original at the location it's rendering
[11:41:58] <Tim_Weyer>	 Hey all. I've added a bug report to bugzilla two days ago. It's just a request for a change on MediaWiki.org: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35794
[11:45:46] <codurr>	 New code comment: SVG; [[Manual:$wgFilterCallback|$wgFilterCallback]] doesn't say it's deprecated, just outdated page?; <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114797#c32645>
[11:52:54] <codurr>	 03cervidae * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114803> 10/trunk/extensions/Postcomment/Postcomment.php:
[11:52:54] <codurr>	 Use an array to replace comma by 'and' if there are several authors
[11:52:54] <codurr>	 Corrected descriptionmsg of $wgExtensionCredits after checking Postcomment.i18n.php
[12:00:50] <Qcoder00>	 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta - In CAPI a sidenote is rendering twice ?
[12:00:59] <Qcoder00>	 I can't find the typo causing this ?
[12:01:01] <Qcoder00>	 Suggestions?
[12:04:55] <Tim_Weyer>	 || <pages index="Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu" from=45 to=45 fromsection=english tosection=english />
[12:04:55] <Tim_Weyer>	 || <pages index="Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu" from=45 to=45 fromsection=latin tosection=latin />
[12:05:02] <Tim_Weyer>	 everything is given twice
[12:07:38] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content (including categories) not showing on file redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27857  summary; +comment (10Rd232)
[12:08:36] <Qcoder00>	 Tim Wyer: One section is te english
[12:08:41] <Qcoder00>	 One section is the original 
[12:08:50] <Qcoder00>	 The page scan is multi col
[12:09:08] <Qcoder00>	 Tim_Weyer : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu/46
[12:09:17] <Qcoder00>	 And the sidenote is only CODED once.
[12:09:25] <Qcoder00>	 So it should not be rendering twice
[12:09:31] <Qcoder00>	 Where's the typo?
[12:09:32] <Tim_Weyer>	 yes, I see
[12:10:47] <Tim_Weyer>	 Sorry, Qcoder00, I don't know what the problem is. There came so many new things in the last years...
[12:13:17] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) A general interwiki language link to oldwikisource is required - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32189  +comment (10Doug)
[12:13:32] <Subfader>	 short URLs: fullurl doesn't use $wgArticlePath. Is that intended?
[12:13:49] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content (including categories) not showing on file redirects - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27857  +comment (10Rd232)
[12:15:50] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: J; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4544
[12:17:07] <Tim_Weyer>	 Subfader: Yes, it is intended. But it's also possible to use /wiki/Article?action=edit
[12:18:30] <Tim_Weyer>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgActionPaths
[12:18:33] <Subfader>	 I don't want plain URLs to own articles
[12:19:17] <Subfader>	 oh, I didn't know $wgActionPaths
[12:20:48] <Qcoder00>	 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Statutes_at_Large_%28Ruffhead%29/Volume1/Magna_Carta - Hmm
[12:20:56] <Qcoder00>	 It cannot be this hard to do section transclusions
[12:21:04] <Tim_Weyer>	 $wgActionPaths['edit'] = $wgArticlePath.'action=edit'; should work
[12:21:17] <Qcoder00>	 EVERY time i do it I seem to end up with spurious bits of table that shouldn't be there
[12:21:19] <Tim_Weyer>	 erm, '?action=edit'
[12:21:25] <Qcoder00>	 and I check the source pages carefully
[12:21:27] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Liangent; "Add missing message "action-renameuser"" [mediawiki/extensions/Renameuser] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4556
[12:21:35] <Qcoder00>	 Can someone PLEASE explain where I am making typos?
[12:21:46] <Qcoder00>	 before I get even more frustrated?
[12:21:58] <Subfader>	 I don't understand the use of it. I can use plain URLs like http://www.mywiki.com/wiki/Article?action=edit ? I can do that without $wgActionPaths
[12:23:08] <Subfader>	 {{fullurl:/wiki/Article?action=edit}} ?
[12:23:14] <Tim_Weyer>	 I'd say if you are already using $wgArticlePath = '/wiki/$1'; you can set $wgActionPaths to make it descriptive
[12:23:16] <codurr>	 New code comment: Platonides; DefaultSettings says "@deprecated since 1.17" \ And https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550 is attempting; <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114797#c32646>
[12:24:54] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) A general interwiki language link to oldwikisource is required - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32189  +comment (10Nemo_bis)
[12:24:57] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Demon; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4534
[12:25:33] <Subfader>	 It seems I can use http://www.mywiki.com/wiki/editCustomActionName/Article
[12:25:52] <Subfader>	 anyway. not what I wanted
[12:25:57] <Subfader>	 Thanks tho
[12:26:43] <Tim_Weyer>	 Subfader: http://p.defau.lt/?rF4hHR02IfGW0rfY9tnZaw
[12:26:57] <Tim_Weyer>	 oh, okay
[12:28:52] <Subfader>	 I wanted {{fullurl:Article|foo=bar}} to return  http://www.mywiki.com/wiki/Article?foo=bar and not http://www.mywiki.com/realWikiPath/index.php?title=Article&foo=bar
[12:29:54] <Tim_Weyer>	 then, you should use this: http://p.defau.lt/?JQAI2p_MA6iOH4Pwtz62Qw
[12:30:44] <Tim_Weyer>	 and configure the .htaccess or httpd.conf in the right way
[12:32:17] <Tim_Weyer>	 Subfader: Tried it now here, it works: http://international.wikiunity.com/
[12:32:57] <Tim_Weyer>	 per example: http://international.wikiunity.com/wiki/Wikiunity_International?action=history
[12:33:14] <Tim_Weyer>	 the links have been changed by: http://p.defau.lt/?JQAI2p_MA6iOH4Pwtz62Qw
[12:34:54] <Subfader>	 I can use plain URL like /wiki/Wikiunity_International?action=history as well, but is {{fullurl:Article|foo=bar}} creating such?
[12:35:18] <Tim_Weyer>	 I'll try it, please wait a moment
[12:36:02] <Tim_Weyer>	 {{fullurl:Article|action=edit}}: http://international.wikiunity.com/wiki/Article?action=edit
[12:36:06] <Tim_Weyer>	 just for action links only
[12:36:15] <Tim_Weyer>	 for foo=bar, it doesn't work
[12:36:34] <Tim_Weyer>	 {{fullurl:Article|foo=bar}}: http://international.wikiunity.com/w/index.php?title=Article&foo=bar
[12:36:41] <Subfader>	 Ah ok, they would have to be defined in advance I guess. Too bad
[12:37:26] <Subfader>	 See. And my question if that is intended. It should use $wgArticlePath just like [[Article]] links do
[12:37:39] <Tim_Weyer>	 but you already can set action links, I'll look for a solution for every link
[12:38:16] <Subfader>	 No effort please. I can fiel a new bug report on bugzilla
[12:40:42] <Tim_Weyer>	 Subfader: Don't create a bug report if there is no bug, just let me check
[12:41:11] <Subfader>	 It is a bug imo. I see no reason for different handling between fullurl and [[link]].
[12:41:50] <Tim_Weyer>	 you might just need to set $wgActionPaths['foo'] = ....
[12:42:02] <Tim_Weyer>	 Subfader: add action 'foo' to $actions array
[12:42:07] <Tim_Weyer>	 then it might work
[12:42:28] <Subfader>	 no custom actions ;)
[12:43:02] <Tim_Weyer>	 yes, I've tried it now..hmm...
[12:43:07] <Tim_Weyer>	 have guests now
[12:43:09] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) If set, fullurl should use $wgArticlePath to create URLs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35830 minor; MediaWiki: Parser; (subfader)
[12:48:04] <DanielFriesen>	 And poof...
[12:48:24] <DanielFriesen>	 I already have a replacement for my first impl of gareth that does the same things
[12:48:46] <^demon>	 Yay, already at Gareth v2? :)
[12:49:50] <DanielFriesen>	 Heh...
[12:50:03] <DanielFriesen>	 ^demon: I just ended up giving up and rewriting in Symfony
[12:50:16] <^demon>	 Aww, not ZendFramework?
[12:50:20] <^demon>	 :)
[12:50:24] <DanielFriesen>	 ...still hate MVC though
[12:50:39] <MaxSem>	 Nikerabbit?
[12:50:49] <DanielFriesen>	 I've had to work around two or three bugs already...
[12:51:20] <^demon>	 Does Symfony tie you into arbitrary directory/naming conventions?
[12:51:53] <DanielFriesen>	 Mhmm... they say you can use it without them... but that's only a subset of the codebase
[12:52:24] <^demon>	 *nod*
[12:52:38] <saper>	 chughakshay16: I don't know what you mean... is it your own tag? I am not sure you really need tags
[12:52:48] <Subfader>	 The parser creates <input ... />&nbsp;<label>... Is that proper HTML? Why not use CSS label {margin-left:5px} ?
[12:53:26] <DanielFriesen>	 And Doctrine (the DB layer) practically gives you the option between (insert some junk boostrap code into your app and start running cli commands to use the ORM later) vs. (use a really ugly db abstraction layer)
[12:54:02] <^demon>	 Ugh, neither of those sound fantastic.
[12:54:05] <DanielFriesen>	 When you hit the former you might as well just use Symfony's MVC where you're not inserting junk yourself
[12:54:10] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "SVG raises a good point in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114797#c32645 that i..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[12:55:39] <DanielFriesen>	 ^demon: ;) On the positive side, here's my new Git class https://gist.github.com/2343232
[12:57:10] <^demon>	 Ideally we'd have a different class that would call php functions if we end up writing an extension there?
[12:57:38] <DanielFriesen>	 Aye, I use `$git_class = $this->container->getParameter('gareth.git_class');`
[12:58:06] <^demon>	 Aww, No GarethGit::factory() ?
[12:58:07] <^demon>	 :)
[12:58:31] <DanielFriesen>	 You can write a completely new class as a C/C++ php extension and have it used with a simple tweak
[12:58:44] <^demon>	 *nod*
[12:59:13] <DanielFriesen>	 ^demon: Config is tied to the container of the controller... ;) I'd have to pass that entire context into the factory to let it do the config fetch.
[12:59:38] <DanielFriesen>	 I gave up on my fancy api too.
[12:59:57] <DanielFriesen>	 Both extremes are doomed to fail as it seams.
[13:00:41] <DanielFriesen>	 Libraries that try to implement full git bindings starting from the low level stuff never finish implementing the porcelain commands.
[13:01:08] <DanielFriesen>	 So you end up with most of them not even having fetch, much less merging, etc...
[13:01:36] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Label should use CSS padding instead of &nbsp; - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35831 trivial; MediaWiki: Parser; (subfader)
[13:01:56] <DanielFriesen>	 And trying to write an api based around git's porcelain/plumbing names and arguments leads to some cases where the api is REALLY awkward.
[13:02:26] <DanielFriesen>	 It also turns into a hack once you try to apply that to the low level plumbing commands and offer an odb api from that.
[13:03:00] <DanielFriesen>	 So I'm just going with a simple class that is Gareth focused. It has high-level commands for whatever we want to happen.
[13:03:14] <DanielFriesen>	 Scrap everything else.
[13:04:22] <Platonides>	 DanielFriesen, I thought about gareth the whole night
[13:04:30] <Platonides>	 or a good part of it, at least
[13:06:22] <DanielFriesen>	 ^demon: Btw, it might need some clean up but there does seam to be a LDAP implementation for Symfony, so when we need to we'll probably be able to plug it in http://knpbundles.com/opensky/LdapBundle
[13:06:53] <DanielFriesen>	  Platonides: Thoughts?
[13:08:12] <Nikerabbit>	 MaxSem: ?
[13:08:25] <MaxSem>	 Nikerabbit, [16:48:48] <MaxSem> forgive me a stupid question, but what's the modern alternative to wfMsg()? all wfMessage() docs seem to mention more complex cases
[13:08:31] <MaxSem>	 :P
[13:08:50] <Nikerabbit>	 MaxSem: depends on what you want obviously
[13:08:59] <Nikerabbit>	 wfMessage( 'foo' )->text() probably
[13:09:11] <MaxSem>	 replace wfMsg() in old code
[13:09:25] <DanielFriesen>	 MaxSem: Do please double check the callers though.
[13:09:26] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Browser error message received when accessing namespace pages that don't yet exist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33275  +comment (10Rich Hewett)
[13:09:48] <DanielFriesen>	 Especially in extensions I run into wfMsg calls that really should be using html escaping.
[13:10:09] <^demon>	 I hate google code's issue tracker.
[13:10:13] * ^demon  fumes

[13:10:28] <Platonides>	 DanielFriesen, I thought about how to make the interface for a reviewing a patchset, what I'd copy from MediaWiki...
[13:10:29] <DanielFriesen>	 Heh... right, that reminds me...
[13:11:26] <sumanah>	 Happy Monday, everyone
[13:11:36] <DanielFriesen>	 First goal for gareth... Get it to a point where we can start hosting gareth in gerith ;)
[13:11:37] <Platonides>	 Good afternoon, sumanah
[13:11:44] <Platonides>	 gerith?
[13:11:55] <DanielFriesen>	 gareth
[13:11:58] <sumanah>	 (except, happy Tuesday to those in New Zealand)
[13:12:05] <MaxSem>	 DanielFriesen, that would be trolling by iteslf;)
[13:12:09] <DanielFriesen>	 a's, e's, all over the place...
[13:12:26] <sumanah>	 Hi Platonides!  How was your weekend?
[13:12:33] <^demon>	 Should've been gaereth.
[13:12:42] <sumanah>	 btw Platonides I was wondering if I could get your help with a project idea of mine.
[13:12:59] <DanielFriesen>	 It's a laugh that the gerrit team doesn't even use the software they write to manage the software.
[13:13:07] <^demon>	 Or gæreth.
[13:13:13] <sumanah>	 DanielFriesen: They don't?  What do they use?
[13:13:14] <^demon>	 DanielFriesen: Yes they do?
[13:13:20] <sumanah>	 DanielFriesen: Perforce?
[13:13:30] <DanielFriesen>	 https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/source/browse/
[13:13:37] <joancreus>	 they're on google code it seems
[13:13:38] <joancreus>	 using git
[13:13:43] <^demon>	 That's just a copy of gerrit.
[13:13:47] <^demon>	 https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/q/status:open,n,z is their review site
[13:13:50] <Platonides>	 sumanah, same answer as everyone: !ask :)
[13:14:00] <DanielFriesen>	 awwwww... T_T
[13:14:28] <sumanah>	 Platonides: Of course you are right. :-)  
[13:15:43] <^demon>	 DanielFriesen: Sorry, can't use the "but they don't even use it" argument ;-)
[13:15:57] <sumanah>	 Platonides: I would like to help less confident MediaWiki developers learn how to review code effectively.  I think often they are worried that they will miss things.  I think a game would help them.  I envision a couple of contests (no prizes!) where people try to find errors in a patch.
[13:16:38] <sumanah>	 Platonides: Would you maybe help me find a few patches that have problems and would be suitable for this kind of competition?
[13:16:44] <DanielFriesen>	 I did run into some interesting stuff while seeing if there was a pre-existing library I could use to draw commit graphs...
[13:17:08] <Platonides>	 sumanah, you want real ones?
[13:17:22] <sumanah>	 Platonides: basically, you would find me like 3 or 5 patches (preferably ones that haven't been merged yet) and find the problems with them, but not review them publicly yet
[13:17:24] <Platonides>	 we could also fake them with common errors quite easily
[13:17:27] <DanielFriesen>	 http://thejit.org/static/v20/Jit/Examples/Spacetree/example1.html
[13:17:32] <DanielFriesen>	 http://thejit.org/static/v20/Jit/Examples/Hypertree/example1.html
[13:17:39] <sumanah>	 Platonides: oooh maybe that's better!  Because then we won't hurt anyone's feelings :-)
[13:17:47] <sumanah>	 Platonides: does this idea interest you?
[13:18:23] <Platonides>	 it seems interesting
[13:19:32] <Platonides>	 a point about using real (old) patches would be "see, even the High Developers missed this"
[13:19:38] <sumanah>	 Platonides: yes
[13:19:40] <^demon>	 Writing code that purposefully fails code review? Where has this project been all my life? ;-)
[13:19:47] <sumanah>	 Hee!
[13:20:15] <sumanah>	 I am not intending on coming up with a point system or anything like that
[13:20:24] <Krenair>	 Platonides: "Could we magically convert $wgFilterCallback into hooks?" - not sure if I understand correctly - you to convert every call to $wgFilterCallback into a hook?
[13:20:34] <^demon>	 I agree with Platonides. It'd be easy to come up with some examples of the common mistakes (missing escaping/validation, etc).
[13:20:45] <Platonides>	 Krenair, something like that
[13:21:38] <sumanah>	 ^demon: are those things that Jenkins-bot would catch (in its current state)?
[13:21:43] <^demon>	 No.
[13:21:56] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Add OAIHarvester class to the autoloader list. Use $IP global" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[13:22:12] <Platonides>	 sumanah, you could make them review https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,4368
[13:22:15] <sumanah>	 OK!  And it would be good to slip in hard-to-catch issues too.
[13:22:28] <Platonides>	 (well, with no cheating looking at the revert)
[13:22:40] <sumanah>	 Platonides: hahaha, hmm, that might be hard to enforce :-)
[13:23:00] <Platonides>	 we could provide something different then
[13:23:06] <Platonides>	 perhaps as a full extension
[13:23:17] <sumanah>	 oh this is interesting
[13:23:24] <sumanah>	 one of the example extensions perhaps?
[13:23:27] <sumanah>	 branch off it
[13:23:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Demon; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[13:23:53] <DanielFriesen>	 I wonder if merging the entire Symfony source history into the Gerrith repo was a bad idea
[13:24:06] <^demon>	 Should've done it as a submodule?
[13:24:13] <sumanah>	 the plot: 'Novitia is a not-so-great programmer who's working on Example Extension! Help her fix her code and avoid common problems!'
[13:24:33] <DanielFriesen>	 ^demon: Nope, Symfony has to be at the root
[13:24:42] <^demon>	 sumanah: I'd rather not mess with examples. They're meant to be examples and no matter how much "THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW TO NOT DO IT" you put, people will still copy the poor copy.
[13:24:51] <sumanah>	 ^demon: ah, ok, understood.
[13:24:56] <sumanah>	 Bad example!
[13:25:00] <sumanah>	 Wait, um, you know what I mean.
[13:25:22] <^demon>	 Well, we need good examples and bad examples :)
[13:26:02] <chughakshay16>	 saper , hi 
[13:26:13] <saper>	 chughakshay16: hi
[13:26:29] <chughakshay16>	 saper, i have a different question now.. :|
[13:27:03] <chughakshay16>	 saper , how to dynamically create a page in mediawiki  .. ?
[13:28:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Include AutoLoader.php if it wasn't already because OAI needs it and only loads Maintenance.php." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[13:29:03] <Platonides>	 DanielFriesen, what's the advantage of symfony?
[13:29:29] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[13:30:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "It's already included by maintenance/doMaintenance.php" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[13:30:29] <sumanah>	 ok, so this idea sounds good to you & you, Chad & Platonides, so I'm going to move forward with it
[13:31:14] <DanielFriesen>	 Platonides: Database abstraction; Form abstraction (built in csrf protection); proc_open abstraction. A view based template system. And user object/session abstraction. It has an i18n system I can just drop in as well.
[13:31:23] <DanielFriesen>	 The user one was the big one.
[13:31:28] <sumanah>	 Thanks for being a sounding board, and once I have a moment I'll ask you for some sample code Platonides - thanks!
[13:31:28] <chughakshay16>	 saper, by not using the api ..
[13:31:31] <sumanah>	 (ok to say no.)
[13:31:32] <DanielFriesen>	 That what was in my way for continuing.
[13:31:44] <DanielFriesen>	 Implementing user handling is always a pain.
[13:33:12] <Platonides>	 DanielFriesen, what were you planning to use for access control to the repositories? gitosis?
[13:33:26] <Platonides>	 gitolite?
[13:33:34] <DanielFriesen>	 Platonides: Did you read the overview?
[13:34:03] <Platonides>	 the email or the mediawiki page?
[13:34:10] <DanielFriesen>	 MW Page
[13:34:15] <Platonides>	 I've read both of them, but perhaps that was at a third?
[13:34:33] <DanielFriesen>	 Well, I guess I don't explain it enough on the page..
[13:34:42] <DanielFriesen>	 I'll need to write a real overview one of these days.
[13:34:44] <DanielFriesen>	 Anyways...
[13:34:57] <DanielFriesen>	 The basic fundamental idea of this system is that there is no need for that.
[13:35:33] <Platonides>	 oh, because of the personal branches?
[13:35:35] <DanielFriesen>	 No-one has the ability to push directly to these repos. You push to your own public repo and the review system fetches commits from there.
[13:36:13] <DanielFriesen>	 And the plan is to make use of web hooks (along with optionally git push hooks if WM hosts their own Gitorious, or whatever to let people have easy personal repos)
[13:36:39] <DanielFriesen>	 So it actually doesn't matter if you're using GitHub, Gitorious, a personal webserver, or something WM hosted as your personal repo.
[13:37:04] <Platonides>	 so the personal repos wouldn't be at the server?
[13:37:20] <DanielFriesen>	 They wouldn't be built into the system.
[13:38:09] <DanielFriesen>	 But we could interface with anything WM wants to use for that to make setup of WM hosted personal repos automatic.
[13:38:41] <DanielFriesen>	 It's actually and advantage for the implementation.
[13:39:59] <DanielFriesen>	 I plan to start off using GitHub for personal repos, so the system can actually be usable before a pile of extra work even needs to be finished.
[13:45:27] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Nikerabbit; "Message documentation added directly to translatewiki.net" [mediawiki/extensions/Renameuser] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4556
[13:45:30] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Nikerabbit; [mediawiki/extensions/Renameuser] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4556
[13:56:25] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Demon; "Platonides is right. If OAI is needing this core hack, then OAI is doing something wrong it would se..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[14:00:45] <Krenair>	 Platonides, I've fixed the wiki page now but why is it a good point? Does it matter?
[14:03:28] <chughakshay16>	 how to create a page with some content in mediawiki ?
[14:08:13] <Platonides>	 chughakshay16, go to the page and click the create tab?
[14:08:29] <Platonides>	 Krenair, because of people that might be using it unaware of the deprecation
[14:08:45] <Krenair>	 No one should be using it anymore
[14:08:46] <chughakshay16>	 Platonides: i mean how to do it programmatically ?
[14:09:15] <Krenair>	 I'm pretty sure the patch I posted removes it from ALL extensions
[14:09:28] <Krenair>	 !api | chughakshay16 
[14:09:29] <mw-bot>	 chughakshay16: The MediaWiki API provides direct, high-level access to the data contained in the MediaWiki databases. Client programs should be able to use the API to login, get data, and post changes. Find out more at <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API>. For client libraries in various languages, see <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code>.
[14:09:44] <Krenair>	 ctrl + F, action=edit
[14:11:02] <chughakshay16>	 Krenair: no , not with the API
[14:11:12] <Krenair>	 Why not?
[14:11:17] <chughakshay16>	 Krenair: isnt there any other way of doing it.. ?
[14:11:21] <Krenair>	 Depends
[14:11:28] <chughakshay16>	 Krenair: i want to use it within the SpecialPage..
[14:11:31] <potter_>	 sumanah: hello
[14:11:33] <Krenair>	 If you have access I guess it could be done through SQL (Don't do this.)
[14:11:46] <Krenair>	 Oh, from a special page
[14:11:54] <drecodeam>	 sumanah: hi 
[14:12:12] <sumanah>	 hi drecodeam & potter_ 
[14:12:53] <chughakshay16>	 Krenair: from what i saw in other extensions - http://pastebin.com/xf13k474
[14:13:21] <chughakshay16>	 Krenair: but doEdit() function doesn't exist anymore in Article class.. 
[14:13:23] <Platonides>	 chughakshay16, yes
[14:13:27] <drecodeam>	 sumanah: i had to ask you something, in the registration page of Berlin Hackathon, is there something specific i have to mention in the "Any other info" section if i am applying for a subsidy ?
[14:13:29] <Platonides>	 something like this should work
[14:13:42] <Platonides>	 Article was split into Article and WikiPage
[14:13:58] <sumanah>	 drecodeam: to increase your chances of getting a subsidy, talk about what you've already done with MediaWiki and what you aim to do
[14:14:06] <Platonides>	 there's also EditPage, but I don't hink doEdit is there
[14:14:37] <sumanah>	 drecodeam: and to help with logistics, say what airport you would be flying out of, how much you think a ticket would be, and whether you already have a passport
[14:14:57] <^demon>	 Platonides: EditPage is just for action=edit, doEdit() is in WikiPage.
[14:15:14] <drecodeam>	 sumanah: ok i would mention that. 
[14:15:30] <drecodeam>	 thanks 
[14:16:01] <chughakshay16>	 ^demon: so instead of instantiating Article(), i should use WikiPage in this code - http://pastebin.com/xf13k474
[14:16:04] <sumanah>	 :)
[14:16:13] <potter_>	 sumanah: I wrote a prototype for WatchGroup "https://github.com/vivekkuamrbagaria/WatchGroup", what is the procedure for it to get reviewed ?
[14:16:34] <sumanah>	 potter_: you should put it in our Git repository, in Gerrit
[14:16:35] <^demon>	 chughakshay16: WikiPage::factory( $title ), but yeah pretty much. 
[14:17:25] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have problems with gerrit:( . Extremely soory for this
[14:17:40] <chughakshay16>	 ^demon : so wikipage would take care of other changes as well such as updating revision table, logs table...
[14:17:47] <^demon>	 Yes
[14:17:53] <sumanah>	 potter_: I understand.  But that's an important step to get it reviewed.
[14:17:59] <chughakshay16>	 ^demon : okay
[14:19:56] <sumanah>	 (back in a bit)
[14:22:19] <Platonides>	 potter_, what's your gerrit problem?
[14:22:34] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Do not mark edits as minor by default on new section or new page creation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27860  +comment (10Doug)
[14:23:39] <potter_>	 Platonides: port 29418 is blocked by my proxy
[14:24:17] <Platonides>	 ouch
[14:24:44] <Platonides>	 I guess it doesn't allow a CONNECT method, either?
[14:24:44] <drecodeam>	 potter_: i think ashish_d can help you with the proxy problem, its blocked in our university too
[14:25:04] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) rename museum-l to glam - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35490  +comment (10Maarten Dammers)
[14:25:11] <drecodeam>	 ashish_d: there ?
[14:25:24] <potter_>	 drecodeam: oh cool, did you resolve it btw ? :)
[14:25:37] * potter_  pokes ashish_d 

[14:25:48] <drecodeam>	 potter_: no i don't stay in my university :P
[14:25:55] <potter_>	 drecodeam: " :P
[14:26:00] <ashish_d>	 yes definitely, I use a SSH tunnel through my Amazon EC2 instance
[14:26:25] <potter_>	 ashish_d: ?
[14:27:13] <ashish_d>	 i'm not sure how *much* it makes sense as a real unblocked internet as in the case of a VPN but for small volumes of data through tunneling it works well
[14:27:18] <^demon>	 Fyi to everyone: I've got a bug open to have us tweak config and remove the port 29418.
[14:27:37] <Platonides>	 would it continue working?
[14:27:56] <potter_>	 ^demon: thtas cool, we can have something like GitHub( i dont know how it works here).
[14:27:58] <ashish_d>	 ^demon, 29418 should be 22, makes most of us happy 
[14:28:10] <^demon>	 29418 is gerrit's default, yell at them ;-)
[14:28:21] <^demon>	 But yes, we're looking at making 22 forward to 29418, so either would work.
[14:29:10] <potter_>	 Platonides: ^demon : There are many universities which have proxy wall.This issue has to sort out asap :)
[14:29:27] <^demon>	 Yeah it's on my todo list. I can't get in from my campus wifi either ;-)
[14:33:30] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Change "Importance" label to "Priority and Severity" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32164  +comment (10Doug)
[14:33:37] <potter__>	 !seen ialex
[14:33:40] <Petanbot>	 ialex (~IAlex@mediawiki/pdpc.active.ialex) was last seen quitting from #mediawiki 3 hours, 8 minutes ago stating (Quit: ialex).
[14:34:50] <potter__>	 sumanah: any idea when ialex comes to IRC?
[14:35:00] <sumanah>	 potter__: No, sorry. Have you tried emailing him?
[14:35:26] <potter_>	 potter_: yes, i have sent an eamil to him
[14:35:31] <potter_>	 sumanah: *email
[14:35:53] <sumanah>	 potter_: He only comes into IRC irregularly.
[14:36:05] <sumanah>	 potter_: have you tried leaving a message on his Talk page on mediawiki.org?
[14:36:13] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have yet not found a mentor,
[14:36:36] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have not left a message cause i thought it would be like spamming him
[14:36:45] <potter_>	 sumanah: cause i sent him a mail too
[14:36:47] <sumanah>	 potter_: I understand.  How long ago did you email him?
[14:37:13] <potter_>	 3 days back
[14:37:18] <potter_>	 sumanah: ^
[14:37:26] <sumanah>	 potter_: Then wait another day and then leave a message on his talk page.
[14:37:52] <sumanah>	 potter_: You've thought about the suggestion I made, right? regarding talking about what you can offer, and how the possible mentor would benefit from mentoring you?
[14:38:02] <sumanah>	 (and from this project)
[14:38:06] <potter_>	 sumanah: kind off yes
[14:38:14] <potter_>	 sumanah: what can i do i mean time?
[14:38:38] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have already made a prototype as Nikerabbit had suggested me
[14:38:53] <sumanah>	 potter_: Work on your Gerrit/Git issues, and ask Nikerabbit to look at the prototype maybe?
[14:39:43] <potter_>	 sumanah: gerrit is not possible from the net i have, i have to check i can get hold of a proxyless net or try ashish_d 's suggestion
[14:40:07] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Remove port 29418 from cloning process - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35611  +comment (10Chad H.)
[14:40:13] <sumanah>	 potter_: also, you could write an email to the mediawiki-l list talking about the prototype and mentioning that you are still seeking a mentor.  Did you see my mediawiki-l message "Do you use MediaWiki as a conference website?"?
[14:40:55] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have not opened my mail yet( i open IRC before mail nowadays)
[14:41:46] <codurr>	 New code comment: SVG; Thanks! Krenair updated that page.; <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114797#c32647>
[14:42:03] <sumanah>	 potter_: Understood.  http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2012-April/039112.html is the email I am talking about.  As you can see, I am asking MediaWiki administrators (who subscribe to this list) whether they would benefit from this kind of functionality.
[14:42:15] <sumanah>	 Writing a similar message might interest them and motivate them to mentor.
[14:43:31] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Need a way to debug exceptions thrown from my ResourceLoader module "Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35814   +need-review +patch; +comment (10Sumana Harihareswara)
[14:43:48] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Creating new layout for Gujarati Typewriter Keyboard - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35044  +comment (10Srikanth Logic)
[14:44:07] <potter_>	 sumanah: i read this one, i thought you were asking me some recent one( I did not remember the subject)
[14:44:47] <sumanah>	 potter_: Understandable :-)
[14:45:17] <potter_>	 sumanah: I will write a mail to wikitech-l regarding my project. Thanks for the advice :)
[14:45:25] <sumanah>	 potter_: perhaps you misunderstood me
[14:45:32] <sumanah>	 potter_: I am suggesting mediawiki-l and not wikitech-l
[14:45:58] <sumanah>	 potter_: mediawiki-l includes experienced MediaWiki administrators who haven't subscribed to wikitech-l and who might be interested in your project
[14:46:28] <potter_>	 sumanah: ok. I over assumed things :)
[14:46:42] <sumanah>	 potter_: you misread!
[14:46:50] <sumanah>	 potter_: ;-)
[14:47:28] <potter_>	 sumanah: :)
[14:47:46] * potter_  is hungry, leaves for dinner

[14:47:55] <Platonides>	 ^demon, is it better to test gerrit replacement in a new instance of gerrit-dev.wmflabs or as a new project?
[14:48:20] <^demon>	 Probably best as a new project.
[14:48:40] <Platonides>	 so I thought, too
[14:48:52] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Add OAIHarvester class to the autoloader list. Move OAIFunctions.php to _body Add schema update hooks" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[14:49:21] <Platonides>	 I'll need to nag Ryan Lane when he appears
[14:51:00] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Reedy; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4534
[14:51:03] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Reedy; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4534
[14:51:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Demon; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[15:00:34] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Blank entry in Special:IndexPages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32590  +comment (10Doug)
[15:01:20] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Include AutoLoader.php if it wasn't already because OAI needs it and only loads Maintenance.php." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[15:02:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[15:06:37] <Reedy>	 Isn't AutoLoaded anyway with Maintenance.php? :/
[15:07:10] <Reedy>	 ah yes
[15:07:41] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "It's the same patch, but rebased to a newer parent." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[15:07:58] <Reedy>	 ABANDON
[15:09:40] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4534
[15:09:56] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Bug 35601 ? Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[15:11:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[15:12:54] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35601  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[15:13:28] <Platonides>	 Application error: Server unavailable
[15:13:48] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[15:14:31] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) enable "Confirmed users" group on mediawiki.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32805  +comment (10Doug)
[15:15:15] <sumanah>	 hey drdee 
[15:15:41] <sumanah>	 drdee: you're about to email the Analytics Day videos to the analytics mailing list? or shall I just forward?
[15:16:23] <sumanah>	 drdee: also shall I email a count.less.ly link to the list so they can try out the prototype report card in its current state?  I infer that's where they should try, not the Wikimedia Labs server that was having trouble.
[15:17:34] <sumanah>	 guillom: you might want to be on https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics if you're not already
[15:18:48] <guillom>	 sumanah: thanks; I joined about a month ago, but I appreciate the advice :)
[15:18:55] <sumanah>	 guillom: silly me! :-)
[15:19:11] <guillom>	 sumanah: not at all; I found about it by chance
[15:19:18] <sumanah>	 guillom: hope you had a good weekend and your allergies are subsiding
[15:19:22] <Platonides>	 I didn't know about it, either
[15:19:31] <Platonides>	 we have too many mailing lists
[15:19:36] <sumanah>	 It was probably mentioned once, on wikitech-l.
[15:19:38] <guillom>	 sumanah: yes, feeling much better, thank you.
[15:19:41] <sumanah>	 :)
[15:20:15] <sumanah>	 guillom: you're a scientist - maybe you can fix your allergies by converting all plant life to non-pollen-dependent means of propagation
[15:21:02] <guillom>	 sumanah: I've seen that movie; it doesn't end well.
[15:21:07] * sumanah  laughs aloud

[15:21:53] <^demon>	 I think scientists should be working full-time on warp field physics :)
[15:22:03] <Lcawte>	 Hmm, wheres my list of all bugs & patches I've contributed to...
[15:22:08] <nischayn22>	 what is meant by a wiki that is currently not public facing, sitting behind a firewall.? 
[15:22:18] <sumanah>	 nischayn22: sometimes people run private wikis.
[15:22:26] <sumanah>	 nischayn22: For their own companies or schools.
[15:22:30] <sumanah>	 nischayn22: For example, Intel does this.
[15:22:44] <nischayn22>	 sumanah: so, we can't even see their site?
[15:23:01] <sumanah>	 nischayn22: Correct.
[15:23:12] <Lcawte>	 VistaPrint use a lot of internal MediaWiki apparently...
[15:23:17] <sumanah>	 nischayn22: Intel runs "Intelpedia": http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2007/tc20070312_740461.htm
[15:25:38] <nischayn22>	 Sony's PlayStation team uses a wiki. wow!
[15:25:49] <sumanah>	 Wikis are very useful tools!
[15:26:19] <sumanah>	 Separate topic: I'm smiling seeing something my spouse wrote a year ago today:   http://www.crummy.com/2011/04/09/1   "We've now got good test coverage for all the server-side code, and as a side effect of writing those tests I've now gone through everything, I understand the code, and I've refactored the hell out of it. Next week I start on new features."
[15:26:51] <Platonides>	 looks like an April Fools
[15:26:55] <sumanah>	 back in a bit
[15:26:57] <sumanah>	 ha!
[15:41:21] <Nikerabbit>	 zend_mm_heap corrupted
[15:41:25] <Nikerabbit>	 how I love php
[15:47:27] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) [labsconsole] use SSL in interwiki map for WMF wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35826  summary; +comment (10Jeremy Baron)
[15:47:41] <hexmode>	 ^demon: http://pastebin.com/rbZsNFJF -- does this make sense?
[15:48:23] <^demon>	 Nope, heh.
[15:48:48] <hexmode>	 php sucks
[15:51:28] <Nikerabbit>	 hexmode: indeed it does
[15:51:56] <joancreus>	 phase IV -- rewrite in python!
[15:52:59] <^demon>	 "IMO you should go with Python or something if you wanted to rewrite MW. (Of course, the downside there is that then all the Perl-lovers will hate MediaWiki *and* its developers eternally, whereas now everyone can loathe the language it's written in in total harmony, but there's always a cost.)"
[15:53:47] <potter_>	 !seen brion
[15:53:48] <Petanbot>	 brion (~brion@wikipedia/pdpc.professional.brion) was last seen quitting from #mediawiki 2 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes ago stating (Remote host closed the connection).
[15:54:14] <jeremyb>	 it's not even 9am FWIW
[15:54:17] <Nikerabbit>	 did I mention I hate php
[15:54:30] <^demon>	 We all have. Many times.
[15:54:31] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Add OAIHarvester class to the autoloader list. Move OAIFunctions.php to _body Add schema update hooks" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[15:54:39] <Lcawte>	 I think you mentioned it once or twice..
[15:54:58] <jeremyb>	 maybe the solution is to write in python and do build time code generation to make php?
[15:55:43] <Lcawte>	 Hmm, has OutputPage::errorpage ever existed in MediaWiki, or is it a core hack that I've just discovered from a wH extension I'm fixing up
[15:57:00] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Demon; "Actually we should probably move all these hook functions into an OAIHooks class or something. I kee..." [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[15:58:40] <^demon>	 Lcawte: I think it existed at some point.
[15:58:51] <Lcawte>	 1.12 would be my best guess :P
[15:59:00] <Lcawte>	 Since, its wikiHow code...
[15:59:46] <^demon>	 You can always checkout the REL1_12 branch and find out :)
[16:00:05] <Lcawte>	 SVN or Git?
[16:00:22] <^demon>	 Either.
[16:01:39] <^demon>	 Lcawte: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/REL1_12/phase3/includes/OutputPage.php?annotate=31213#l884
[16:01:51] <Lcawte>	 ty
[16:02:09] <^demon>	 You're welcome.
[16:02:18] <hexmode>	 ^demon: I thought you had to be physically in the same place to do pair programming ;)
[16:02:39] <^demon>	 hexmode: Well we could just dump all of mediawiki into etherpad and have at it ;-)
[16:02:50] <hexmode>	 l LOL
[16:03:05] <Lcawte>	 Oh ok, looking at that, I'm guessing I just need to search for the current way to output a permissions error page, which of course, I could use svn.wm.o/doc and just search that?
[16:03:34] <^demon>	 Lcawte: I believe there's an exception you can throw for it now.
[16:03:41] <^demon>	 Like "throw new PermissionsError" or something
[16:04:07] <hexmode>	 OAI hasn't gotten any love, so I feel it deserves some :P
[16:05:22] <Reedy>	 We should make the original authors pay maintenance fees
[16:06:04] <Beau_>	 Where can I dump a code of unfinished feature, so I can get some feedback (someone could tell me for example to stop wasting my time...)? Can I send unfinished patch set to gerrit for some feedback? Is thera a workflow for that?
[16:06:07] * ^demon  will work for cookies and fruit punch.

[16:06:28] <Lcawte>	 Huh, 1.18.2 in svn as well as Git, I noticed there wasn't a tag for it..
[16:06:36] <Reedy>	 !gitweb
[16:06:36] <mw-bot>	 For core: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/core.git
[16:06:50] <Reedy>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/core.git;a=commit;h=a917949f6c140fb0c6beaf58fa46a8550832fcbb
[16:07:03] <^demon>	 Beau_: For now, you could commit it to gerrit with a summary indicating it shouldn't be merged yet. Once we upgrade to 2.3 users will get a personal "drafts" space in which they can push commits that aren't ready for prime-time.
[16:07:19] <Reedy>	 Lcawte: cause SVN was locked just before the releases
[16:07:43] <Reedy>	 but post 1.18.1 we bump the version as other changes come in
[16:08:23] <Beau_>	 ^demon: I see Draft link in My section on gerrit.wikimedia.org, but it does not work right now?
[16:08:41] <^demon>	 It does, but the syntax is a little awkward for it.
[16:08:42] <Lcawte>	 Hmm, now I need to find out how to do the pull a specific branch from Git :/
[16:09:28] <Beau_>	 ^demon: okay, I will commit it to gerrit the normal way, thanks.
[16:09:47] <Reedy>	 git checkout -b REL1_19 -t origin/REL1_19
[16:09:52] <Reedy>	 rtfm
[16:11:27] <Lcawte>	 Agh, trying to do a million things at once, cool cool, I'll try that, ty
[16:15:00] <Lcawte>	 Oh god, if I come to Berlin in June, I'm going to be spending half the weekend screaming at git :S
[16:16:18] <Lcawte>	 So many putty windows >:(
[16:16:48] <Beau_>	 console is your friend
[16:17:06] <Beau_>	 there was tabbed version of putty...
[16:17:29] <^demon>	 Remember the days before we had browser tabs?
[16:17:30] <Reedy>	 indeed
[16:17:39] <Reedy>	 there's a couple of programs to do tabbed putty
[16:20:29] <awight>	 gwicke: ping
[16:21:35] <Lcawte>	 Hmm, ok, need to find any extension with a special page thats restricted, shouldn't be hard should it?
[16:21:47] <gwicke>	 awight: pong
[16:21:51] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The XSS filter in IE8/9 breaks certain tools - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32013  +comment (10JaGa)
[16:22:18] <Reedy>	 Lcawte: they're in core too
[16:22:22] <awight>	 gwicke: Hi, it's adamw_.  I'm trying to understand two aspects of the parser design
[16:22:23] <Reedy>	 SpecialPages do most of it for you
[16:22:26] <Reedy>	 Look at the constructor
[16:22:30] <gwicke>	 awight: had a visitor last time you tried to ping me, so I couldn't reply in time
[16:22:51] <awight>	 gwicke: yeah, i disappeared to lunch too, i think
[16:23:22] <awight>	 gwicke: wondering whether the plan is to compile templates into AST or bytecode for reuse
[16:23:30] <awight>	 gwicke: or if that comes for free with the packrat parser?
[16:24:00] <gwicke>	 awight: the pipeline is unidirectional, so we can cache at any stage
[16:24:02] <Lcawte>	 Wow, I was so pre-occupied doing all these billion things I almost listened to an entire abba song O.o
[16:24:16] <awight>	 gwicke: and question 2, is the wiki syntax being implemented with token transformations really inexpressible by a second parser pass?
[16:25:08] <gwicke>	 awight: right now I am mostly focused on getting the semantics right, and in exposing optimization opportunities in the future
[16:25:34] <gwicke>	 but I have not yet delved too deeply in advanced optimizations for templates
[16:25:57] <gwicke>	 right now there is not even a tokenizer cache for templates
[16:26:06] <awight>	 gwicke: I imagined that was the approach, but it might be worthwhile to propose something around this, so third parties can think about the issues meanwhile...
[16:26:09] <gwicke>	 so each use of a template is re-tokenized..
[16:26:54] <Lcawte>	 git pull is the equivelant of svn up isn't it?
[16:27:11] <gwicke>	 awight: re your second question: it depends on what you mean with a second parser pass
[16:27:13] <awight>	 gwicke: So the tokenization is truly independent of template arguments and other state?
[16:27:35] <gwicke>	 awight: yes, right now the tokenizer is completely static
[16:28:11] <gwicke>	 so we could even tokenize once while saving and store the tokens as XML or some more efficient format
[16:28:26] <gwicke>	 and then never re-tokenize for that revision
[16:28:38] <awight>	 gwicke: re: 2nd parser pass, many of the handlers seem like they would be more naturally expressed as parser grammar.
[16:29:53] <gwicke>	 awight: things like quotes for italic/bold are context sensitive, so cannot readily be expressed as a plain PEG grammar
[16:30:05] <awight>	 gwicke: The first parse into tokens stops at the end of "async" phase, and then there could be a different parser grammar to replace much of token transformations
[16:30:16] <gwicke>	 but the bigger issues is that we need to support structures where parts come from different templates
[16:30:20] <awight>	 gwicke: yeah, that's unfortunate.
[16:31:16] <awight>	 gwicke: but the transclusion of unbalanced tags would be easily parsed in the sync phase, i think.
[16:31:37] <gwicke>	 awight: the first or second sync phase?
[16:31:54] <awight>	 don't know ;)
[16:32:06] <gwicke>	 right now it is sync - async - sync
[16:32:40] <gwicke>	 with the first sync being per input, async does all the expansion and the final sync passes over all tokens in-order
[16:32:42] <awight>	 gwicke: I think the "bytecode" optimization would simplify that pipeline, too
[16:32:59] <awight>	 gwicke: yes, so "sync23"
[16:33:11] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Need a way to debug exceptions thrown from my ResourceLoader module "Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35814  +comment (10Dmitriy Sintsov)
[16:33:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Add OAIHarvester class to the autoloader list. Consolidate oaiDatestamp in OAIFunctions.php to main body and OAIRepo class Move hooks to OAIHooks.php Add schema update hooks" [mediawiki/extensions/OAI] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4557
[16:33:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Can verify this fixes large chunked uploads, yay! Looks reasonable on initial look." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4544
[16:33:15] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4544
[16:33:36] <gwicke>	 in a way, tokens are already 'bytecodes' in that they are a kind of instruction stream rather than a tree
[16:33:42] <awight>	 right
[16:34:35] <gwicke>	 maybe you could describe the kind of bytecodes you have in mind a bit
[16:35:30] <awight>	 gwicke: exactly what you mentioned earlier, templates are cached as HTML5 after parsing, or perhaps as the AST
[16:35:38] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The background of ALL pages of the Wikipedia in English has turned 50 to 100% blue (en.wikipedia.org, but not in other Wikipedias) since 14-15 February, 2012. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34444  +comment (10Tisza Gergő)
[16:35:41] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) CSS rule causes blue background for chrome users - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34551  +comment (10Tisza Gergő)
[16:37:29] <gwicke>	 awight: there might also be some optimizations possible that use referential transparency in plain templates
[16:38:32] <awight>	 gwicke: on second thought, token stream is not such an optimization, is it...  The token still have to be evaluated in context, so you can't really cache html5 (unless the context-sensitive logic is still present)
[16:38:46] <awight>	 gwicke: which might be a good idea.
[16:39:35] <gwicke>	 if your template expansion is referentially transparent, you can simply return the result of an earlier expansion if the parameters match
[16:40:25] <gwicke>	 if there are unknown / effectful parser functions or -hooks involved, then those will need to be re-evaluated each time
[16:42:06] <awight>	 gwicke: so I have been wearing ListHandler blinders...
[16:44:13] <gwicke>	 awight: I think it might be possible to cache results of sync23 transforms too- the ListHandler is referentially transparent after all
[16:45:04] <awight>	 gwicke: agreed that optimizations can come later.
[16:45:35] <awight>	 gwicke: the only thing that's bothering me is that this token transformation looks exactly like an unrolled parser grammar
[16:45:37] <gwicke>	 will need a way to handle invalidation when the tokens in a given line change due to a template / parser function update for example
[16:46:26] <awight>	 gwicke: I'm also unclear on the requirements for these list items containing templates
[16:46:33] <gwicke>	 awight: I agree that the simpler transformations could also be expressed as a grammar
[16:47:21] <gwicke>	 in sync23, all templates are expanded- so the ListHandler should not have to care about templates
[16:47:56] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have sent the mail you told me to send. :)
[16:48:20] <gwicke>	 awight: there is still some tricky stuff to be done for start-of-line position that is also relevant for list items
[16:48:35] <awight>	 gwicke: ok, but the issue is that, it's surprising that a linefeed in a template resets lists created by a calling page
[16:48:51] <gwicke>	 for example, a line that starts with a template that expands to an empty string would still be considered start-of-line in the old parser
[16:49:05] <sumanah>	 potter_: great! point me to the link (in the web archive, either at gmane or at lists.wikimedia.org)?
[16:49:19] <potter_>	 sumanah: one min
[16:50:12] <gwicke>	 awight: there is some special handling for trailing newlines in templates IIRC, but for empty lines between items in a template that would be expected
[16:51:16] <awight>	 gwicke: so a template is expected to know the context it is called from?  for example, a list item must have the correct bullet depth to not generate a start- or end-of-list tag
[16:51:57] <gwicke>	 awight: no, the only thing really needed is start-of-line or not
[16:52:41] <awight>	 gwicke: that's for ending a list, but what about list items coming from the template?
[16:52:55] <gwicke>	 the bullet depth and needed list opening / closing should be figured by the list handler
[16:53:11] <awight>	 gwicke: I'm stuck on that, haven't found any examples of existing wikitext which do this.
[16:54:03] <awight>	 gwicke: okay, that answer works for me.  So the template is only generating list items if its content is strictly SOL-bullet-inline text sequences
[16:55:07] <gwicke>	 awight: yeah, except that we currently cheat and assume the common case of list items in templates being included in start-of-line position
[16:55:48] <potter_>	 sumanah: i am not finding it in "http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2012-April/thread.html" .
[16:55:52] <gwicke>	 awight: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:GWicke/Lists
[16:56:13] <gwicke>	 that cheating is actually quite close to what the current preprocessor does
[16:56:52] <sumanah>	 potter_: then your email probably did not go through.
[16:57:00] <sumanah>	 potter_: did you send it from an email address that is subscribed to that list?
[16:57:10] <sumanah>	 potter_: also, did you include any attachments? that could cause problems
[16:58:12] <awight>	 gwicke, cool, so the cheating is to add a start-of-line
[16:58:19] <potter_>	 sumanah: i got the reply from mediawiki-l confirming that my mail has been sent
[16:58:29] <sumanah>	 potter_: hmmmmmmm
[16:58:39] <sumanah>	 potter_: are you sure? look at that reply.
[16:58:44] <potter_>	 sumanah: i have not included any attachments.
[16:58:45] <gwicke>	 awight: we simply don't do anything special when tokenizing templates right now
[16:58:54] <potter_>	 sumanah: i'll cros check it
[16:59:06] <MobileTurkey>	 anyone have experience with  the dumpHTML  extension
[16:59:15] <MobileTurkey>	 it doesn't seem to be giving me the output i expected.
[16:59:27] <gwicke>	 awight: so anything SOL in the template emits listItem tokens
[16:59:47] <awight>	 gwicke: and the new parser will break this behavior if it transcludes correctly
[16:59:51] <sumanah>	 MobileTurkey: apergos tends to know things about that kind of functionalty, I think :-)
[17:00:17] <apergos>	 not dumpHTML
[17:00:30] <apergos>	 that's the one piece of the puzzle I've actually never played with
[17:00:45] <potter_>	 sumanah: this is the reply i got - http://dpaste.com/729108/
[17:00:47] <awight>	 gwicke: well, if the first parser pass creates a listItem token for the first included item, this example should work.
[17:01:17] <sumanah>	 potter_: you didn't send your email to the right address
[17:01:24] <sumanah>	 potter_: you sent to "mediawiki-l-request"
[17:01:38] <sumanah>	 potter_: that is a sort of a bot that processes subscribe/unsub requests
[17:01:39] <gwicke>	 awight: yeah, right now it should work if the ListHandler does not require a newline before the listItem
[17:02:02] <potter_>	 sumanah: ok. i have gone bonkers tonight !
[17:02:13] <sumanah>	 potter_: as you see at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l To post a message to all the list members, send email to mediawiki-l@lists.....
[17:02:14] <gwicke>	 awight: as long as we are consistent with the old parser, we are fine
[17:02:40] <awight>	 gwicke: OK I'll try to define using test cases
[17:02:41] <sumanah>	 potter_: so as you see, the email reply you received did not actually confirm that your message had gone through!
[17:02:49] <sumanah>	 and potter_ 
[17:02:51] <sumanah>	 don't send it yet
[17:02:57] <sumanah>	 potter_: please think more about what you are offering!
[17:03:07] <sumanah>	 potter_: you need to think like an advertising executive
[17:03:23] <sumanah>	 potter_: what is good about your proposal?  how will it benefit the person reading the email?
[17:04:25] <sumanah>	 potter_: "I am sure many of you would have felt requirement such an extension." is (a) ungrammatical and (b) not specific. It's vague.
[17:04:52] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "I think switching from += to array_merge is all you need here; the rest of the commit is unnecessary..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[17:04:59] <potter_>	 sumanah: i thought of keeping the mail short, so i did not describe much
[17:06:27] <sumanah>	 potter: that makes sense .... so take out something else, something they won't care about. Like the name of your school and where you live
[17:06:34] <wikibugs>	 04(REOPENED) Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35601  +comment (10Brion Vibber)
[17:06:34] <gwicke>	 awight: cool! The general approach you took for the ListHandler was already fine- it should only need some tweaks really
[17:06:41] <potter>	 sumanah: ah ok
[17:07:24] <AaronSchulz>	 brion: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,4538 :)
[17:08:21] <brion>	 hrm
[17:08:32] <brion>	 AaronSchulz: is that changes to an upstream library or does it just look like that?
[17:09:05] <AaronSchulz>	 it's a fork of an upstream library which hasn't been maintained in 1/2 a year
[17:09:13] <brion>	 heh. fun
[17:09:26] <AaronSchulz>	 we have a few key changes, not too many lines
[17:09:42] <brion>	 well i've got no way to test it...
[17:09:47] <awight>	 gwicke: thanks for all the explanations. I'm playing with transcluded items in the current parser, definitely not what I would have implemented, but I can emulate.  ciao!
[17:10:02] <AaronSchulz>	 brion: I've already tested it in another branch with unit tests
[17:10:10] * AaronSchulz  will push that branch sometime this week

[17:11:12] <gwicke>	 awight: The documentation from Tim's preprocessor rewrite is quite relevant to this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MNPP
[17:11:35] <awight>	 great!
[17:11:35] <gwicke>	 many of those changes make our life easier
[17:15:42] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Assured that this has been tested by Aaron though I don't have things set up to test it myself. Soun..." [mediawiki/extensions/SwiftCloudFiles] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4538
[17:16:10] <brion>	 AaronSchulz: hm, it still needs to be marked 'verified'
[17:16:20] <brion>	 which someone with tests should probably do ;)
[17:17:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "Tested in FileBackendTests in an upcoming branch." [mediawiki/extensions/SwiftCloudFiles] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4538
[17:17:08] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/extensions/SwiftCloudFiles] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4538
[17:18:25] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Normalize how EXIF data gets exported into tables (armor against wiki formatting in raw data) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28954  +comment (10Andrew Gray)
[17:19:29] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Brion VIBBER; "This doesn't sound like it *should* be necessary; likely there's a bug in OAI ext somewhere that nee..." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4558
[17:21:21] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Commit message seems to be missing something -- "Remove deprecated ." Deprecated what?" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[17:24:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "I don't like this. That exception should only happen in bizarre situations. But catching any and all..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4517
[17:25:41] <wikibugs>	 14(DUP) Wikipedia mobile users are reporting super slow and jerky scrolling within the app - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35781  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[17:25:41] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[17:27:30] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Seems to work." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4552
[17:27:33] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4552
[17:30:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Aaron Schulz; "Use Linker::userToolLinks on Special:ListUsers to format the rows in the same way as Special:ActiveUsers." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4505
[17:30:39] <potter>	 sumanah: hi.. i have "advertised" my proposal in a very few lines - http://dpaste.com/729120/
[17:31:18] <sumanah>	 potter: "This extension will help user to categorize his pages in the way he wants. Thus, we can expect an increase in the quality of articles, better editing and reviewing of articles." is not grammatical
[17:31:54] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4505
[17:31:56] <sumanah>	 also, instead of "WatchGroups (Multiple WatchList)" you should say "watchgroups (multiple watchlists)".
[17:31:59] <potter>	 sumanah: #mediawiki-english-classes
[17:32:07] <sumanah>	 In general, I don't know why you're capitalizing WatchList. 
[17:32:17] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "Fixed commit message typo. Looks OK." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4505
[17:32:19] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4505
[17:32:36] <sumanah>	 potter: sorry, I'm about to go into a meeting and can't do the point-by-point criticism right now
[17:32:50] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Returning the message from the exception definitely sounds wrong; Title::moveTo is labeled as return..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4517
[17:32:51] <potter>	 sumanah: i was joking :P
[17:33:02] <sumanah>	 potter: if you have access to an automatic grammar checker, try running your draft through that, see what it tells you
[17:33:10] <potter>	 sumanah: ok
[17:36:28] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Seems to work; ex on the initial 'MediaWiki default' edit on main page." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4551
[17:36:32] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4551
[17:36:58] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) iOS 4.2 Keyboard is not getting dismissed after full screen search scroll - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35832 normal; Wikipedia App: Generic; (tfinc)
[17:37:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4512
[17:37:08] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4512
[17:38:27] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4515
[17:38:30] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4515
[17:38:55] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Add block permissions in rollback on Lusophone Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35261  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[17:39:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "-1 until clarified." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4530
[17:40:12] <hexmode>	 Reedy: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35261 -- also added you to the bug
[17:40:30] <Amgine>	 !b 34995
[17:40:30] <mw-bot>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34995
[17:40:46] <Amgine>	 !b 35578
[17:40:46] <mw-bot>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35578
[17:42:05] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) New messages bar should appear above page title, for consistency with other message boxes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/12681  +comment (10Brion Vibber)
[17:42:17] <AaronSchulz>	 jorm: what's the url to that site?
[17:42:45] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) New messages bar should appear above page title, for consistency with other message boxes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/12681  +comment (10Brion Vibber)
[17:43:42] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Spacing seems pretty bad." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4549
[17:49:43] <keith>	 is there any way to make 'summary' a required field that you can't submit without filling in?
[17:49:49] <keith>	 or turning off the auto summary thing
[17:50:29] <brion>	 pretty sure there is, but i forget it offhand
[17:51:28] <keith>	 i haven't been able to google anything
[17:51:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4506
[17:52:12] <brion>	 keith: can at least check ' Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary ' in your own prefs
[17:53:20] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4537
[17:53:22] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4537
[17:53:28] <hexmode>	 ^demon: ok, how do I save code comments in gerrit?  I can make a comment and save it as draft, but what is the next step?
[17:55:53] <^demon>	 hexmode: Review a commit, you'll see them attached at the bottom.
[17:56:09] <hexmode>	 ah
[17:57:07] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4520
[17:58:14] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Seems to work, use of {{GRAMMAR:brionv}} doesn't break on a test wiki." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4506
[17:58:17] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4506
[17:59:40] <Krenair>	 https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interwiki_map&diff=3629720&oldid=3624092 Has this been done right?
[18:00:14] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Looks ok; no easy tests to verify?" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4535
[18:02:31] <sumanah>	 hi potter 
[18:02:41] <potter>	 ellosumanah: h
[18:02:47] <potter>	 sumanah: hello
[18:02:47] <potter>	 errr
[18:02:55] <sumanah>	 :)
[18:05:53] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MarkAHershberger; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[18:06:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Looks ok... are there any unit tests covering GenderCache or that could be added?" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4507
[18:07:03] <keith>	 so I'm using LDAP auth for my corpnet, and I had to whitelist Special:RecentChanges, so trying to set the summary to be required so it doesn't leak too much information
[18:07:25] <keith>	 right now, if nobody puts a summary, it'll pull page content
[18:07:41] <keith>	 either turn that off, or ideally just make summary mandatory
[18:07:58] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MarkAHershberger; "Bug 35601 ? Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[18:08:11] <brion>	 auto summaries i think you can turn off in theory...
[18:08:20] <sumanah>	 potter: so, do you have a new draft?
[18:08:37] <brion>	 keith: try what happens if you tweak http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseAutomaticEditSummaries
[18:08:56] <keith>	 sweet i'll do that for now
[18:09:02] <potter>	 sumanah: i started speaking to ialex
[18:09:15] <potter>	 sumanah: so i have to make a new draft
[18:09:15] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[18:09:25] <sumanah>	 potter: great! glad you found ialex 
[18:09:41] <potter>	 sumanah: \m/
[18:10:19] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[18:13:14] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "I tend to agree with Tim here." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3367
[18:16:14] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Seems to work :D" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[18:16:17] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4561
[18:17:13] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) Watchlist doesn't show or count pages not in the main namespace when deleting them from the watchlist - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35601  +comment (10Brion Vibber)
[18:17:40] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  +comment (10Yuvi Panda)
[18:19:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Delay when clicking the share, bookmark, settings buttons on the bottom panel - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35762  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:19:34] <Krenair>	 I was trying to fix the commit message in gerrit change 4550 for brion, but this happened: http://pastebin.com/mMrjn8Tt
[18:20:15] <Krenair>	 What happened and how do I fix it?
[18:20:34] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Read page in scrolling up and down makes you lose the languages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35763  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:20:43] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Add the option to save pictures to the camera roll - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35764  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:20:44] <brion>	 Krenair: try a 'git rebase origin/master'
[18:20:53] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Back button on the settings page doesn't work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35765  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:21:04] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) "An option to change background colour would be great, to let people choose a contrast that is easier on the eye" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35766  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:21:10] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The search box stays at the top of the screen, but it'd be nicer to let it scroll up once loaded so you have more reading space - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35767  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:21:35] <Krenair>	 brion, worked, but then git review -R did exactly the same thing
[18:21:47] <brion>	 hm
[18:22:06] <brion>	 maybe need a git pull in there
[18:23:04] <Krenair>	 ah so many problems
[18:23:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Current positioning of the "Enhanced watchlist" preference is confusing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35768  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:23:40] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Convert jasmin test for mediawiki.Uri module to qunit - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35769  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:23:51] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "All qunit & jasmine tests now pass." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4365
[18:23:53] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  +comment (10Wesley Hales)
[18:23:54] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4365
[18:24:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Never loads an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35771  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:24:16] <Krenair>	 Meh, I'll just move the repo elsewhere then clone it again
[18:24:48] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Settings menu never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35772  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:25:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Never loads an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35771  +comment (10Yuvi Panda)
[18:25:23] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) MobileFrontend extension should stop special-casing main page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30405  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[18:25:36] <sumanah>	 OK, I've gone through all the developer access requests & fulfilled them all
[18:25:40] <sumanah>	 the queue is now 0
[18:25:49] <sumanah>	 also archived all but the newest
[18:25:55] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Is unable to recover after clearing history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35773  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:26:10] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Saved pages window never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35774  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:26:53] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Near by shows no tiles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35775  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:27:30] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 Near by shows no tiles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35775  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:27:44] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikipedia Mobile app has serious issues with iOS 4.2 - Tracking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35776  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:28:01] <Krenair>	 Tim_Weyer, I don't understand why you have a problem with developer access being fairly open?
[18:28:04] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "Seems to work." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3328
[18:28:12] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:28:18] * AaronSchulz  throws https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,3328 at RoanKattouw

[18:28:24] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikipedia Mobile on iOS is sluggish after button presses - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35778  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:28:35] * RoanKattouw  catches it

[18:28:50] <sumanah>	 RoanKattouw: good eye! have you thought of trying out for the majors?
[18:28:58] * sumanah  descends into baseball metaphors

[18:29:11] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: IAlex; "Use $wgUser in ResourceLoaderUserGroupsModule when possible." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4564
[18:29:22] <AaronSchulz>	 or...exception metaphors
[18:29:22] <Tim_Weyer>	 Krenair: I'm not against fairness, I'm against granting access to developers who would like to be developers but don't know anything
[18:30:01] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Langage list has lots of white space while scrolling - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35779  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:30:03] <Krenair>	 Why? Is it harmful?
[18:30:10] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Post 3.1.1 tracker for Wikipedia Mobile on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35780  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:30:29] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4564
[18:30:40] <Lcawte>	 extensions that haven't migrated to git, are they still being developed in svn, or are they "dead"?
[18:30:49] <sumanah>	 Lcawte: depends on the extension
[18:30:55] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) new telugu web font for telugu wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35782  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:30:57] <sumanah>	 Lcawte: many of them seem to have been abandoned by their authors
[18:31:02] <Ryan_Lane>	 sumanah: why allow private requests?
[18:31:03] <sumanah>	 Lcawte: but look at Special:Code on mediawiki.org
[18:31:08] <Ryan_Lane>	 re: http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Developer_access/Instructions_to_post_your_request_below&diff=0&oldid=522057
[18:31:11] <Lcawte>	 Ah, so people still can commit code to extensions?
[18:31:13] <sumanah>	 Lcawte: and you'll see 
[18:31:18] <Tim_Weyer>	 It's rather dangerous and it's shouldn't be a problem for a coder to write a short code, Krenair.
[18:31:20] <sumanah>	 Ryan_Lane: Because I am ok with shy people contacting me
[18:31:25] <Krenair>	 If someone does show that they have no idea what they're doing then it can be revoked, no need to make getting the access in the first place difficult
[18:31:28] <Tim_Weyer>	 it shouldn't*
[18:31:30] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) "Pattern" field is too user unfriendly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35783  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:31:30] <Krenair>	 What?
[18:31:33] <Krenair>	 It's not dangerous
[18:31:43] <Krenair>	 ... Is it? sumanah?
[18:31:43] <G_SabinoMullane>	 Lcawte: Yes, you can still commit to svn for some. The ones that have been migrated should prevent people from svn committing.
[18:31:56] <sumanah>	 Krenair: I'm on your side here -- I'm not seeing the danger.
[18:32:01] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Catrope; "Looks good but the code duplication needs to be fixed." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3328
[18:32:03] <Tim_Weyer>	 sure, you can revert edits by a vandal
[18:32:23] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: You do realize that only certain authorized users can veto or merge code into trunk, right?
[18:32:31] <Krenair>	 If someone submits some bad code it just wont get approved
[18:33:47] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jarry1250; "Resolve bug #18704 ("Add an unique CSS class or ID to the tagfilter table row at RecentChanges")" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4520
[18:34:06] <Krenair>	 You can think of it like the difference between a normal wiki and FlaggedRevs
[18:34:07] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Respect flood flag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35784  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:34:09] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah, Krenair: vandals are probably not the major danger, but I still think access shouldn't be given to everyone. If an user knows how to code, it's should be an easy action to write a short code to prove that he or she knows something about coding
[18:34:11] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: You might not have realized that with our new source control system, and with our pre-merge review configuration, it's now safe to allow virtually anyone to submit a merge request.
[18:34:17] <Krenair>	 Without FlaggedRevs anyone can edit and anyone can revert vandalism
[18:34:24] <Jarry1250>	 ^^ AaronSchulz. Quick, before someone changes RELEASE-NOTES... :/
[18:34:31] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: You still haven't shown why we should have any restriction -- restrictions should be to mitigate risk
[18:34:32] <Krenair>	 With it, vandalism only becomes a problem if it gets approved
[18:34:39] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: What specifically is the risk here you aim to mitigate?
[18:35:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4520
[18:35:21] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Is it the name "developer"?  Are you simply unhappy that someone with very little skill is able to get something that is named "developer access"? Do you feel that this demeans the word, or something like that?
[18:35:27] <Krenair>	 With the old SVN/CodeReview system, anyone can edit (well, only approved users, but whatever)
[18:35:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4520
[18:35:37] <Krenair>	 With Gerrit, changes have to get approved before they become a problem
[18:35:37] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4520
[18:35:44] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: no, very little skills are skills, but NO skills are NO skills
[18:35:51] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: So what?  People can learn.
[18:36:30] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Please clarify what the risk is, what the danger is!  I'm very puzzled!
[18:36:44] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: People can learn, yeah. But their should be a little experience already
[18:36:47] <sumanah>	 Why?
[18:36:49] <Krenair>	 Why?
[18:36:51] <Krenair>	 ninja'd..
[18:36:58] <Tim_Weyer>	 there*
[18:37:09] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Respect flood flag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35784  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:37:45] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: The name 'developer' gets misused, that's my problem
[18:37:47] <Jarry1250>	 AaronSchulz: Ta muchly.
[18:37:53] <Krenair>	 How would it be misused?
[18:37:55] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: AHA.  OK, so it's the name.
[18:38:03] <Krenair>	 oh i see
[18:38:08] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Nuke should respect flood flag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35784  summary (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:38:34] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: So, you're unhappy about the semantics.  You think that because someone gets "developer access" that means that we are labelling them a developer.
[18:39:14] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Am I right in summarizing your argument?
[18:39:21] <joancreus>	 git access, maybe?
[18:39:26] <Krenair>	 Pretty sure we already have a distinction between developer and someone with developer access already
[18:39:29] <joancreus>	 labs console?
[18:39:29] <sumanah>	 joancreus: But it is also Labs access
[18:39:46] <sumanah>	 it's a single sign-on account to at least 2 tools now, maybe more in the future
[18:39:54] <Krenair>	 For example, I have "developer access". But I'm listed under patch contributors instead of developers
[18:40:05] <sumanah>	 (in the CREDITS, Krenair?)
[18:40:08] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah, Krenair: everyone can say "I'm a developer of MediaWiki software. I know a little about CSS and HTML, that's all." I just expect a little experience, I don't expect much, just this little skills with PHP
[18:40:14] <Krenair>	 yep
[18:40:22] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: So it bothers you that other people might brag.
[18:40:52] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: This is, you realize, primarily an emotional argument.
[18:41:08] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Make enhanced recentchanges the default - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35785  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[18:41:10] <Krenair>	 Honestly anyone can say that, developer access or not. Either way they wouldn't be correct
[18:41:24] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: I just want that their (basic) skills get proven
[18:41:31] <Krenair>	 Why?
[18:41:40] <Krenair>	 We're going in circles here
[18:41:50] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: But the reason you want that is because of this label and the meaning that you are attaching to it.
[18:42:11] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: I suggest that you consider "developer" both a descriptive and an aspirational label.
[18:42:28] <AaronSchulz>	 brion: MathJax JS seems to break flaggedrevs
[18:42:30] <Sid-G>	 how to find out the deployment status of a gerrit change that has been merged?
[18:42:38] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: That's a good question.
[18:42:42] <brion>	 hmm
[18:42:46] <brion>	 breaks it how?
[18:42:50] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Alex Monk; "(bug 30410) Remove deprecated $wgFilterCallback. The 'filtered' API error was also removed, along with EditPage::AS_FILTERING." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[18:42:53] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: Have you perhaps looked at our recent emails on wikitech-l regarding deployment branches?
[18:42:54] <AaronSchulz>	 or wait
[18:42:56] <Reedy>	 Sid-G: you almost can't
[18:42:58] <AaronSchulz>	 brion: might be unrelated
[18:42:58] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[18:43:10] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:ouch that hurts
[18:43:10] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: If anyone can get access it's like the name 'manager', everyone can use it and it doesn't mean you are really managing anything
[18:43:10] <Reedy>	 See if anyone has merged it in CodeReview using the build number
[18:43:13] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: We'll be creating branches just before we deploy, and maybe you could somehow check in there
[18:43:16] <AaronSchulz>	 'Flagged revision with ID 75452 exists with unexpected fr_page_id'
[18:43:18] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:not yet
[18:43:18] <AaronSchulz>	 wtf
[18:43:19] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Indeed.  And I'm ok with that.
[18:43:40] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Words change meaning over time.  
[18:43:52] <Krenair>	 wtf jenkins
[18:43:54] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:by "in there" u mean the mailing list right?
[18:43:55] <Krenair>	 The code was exactly the same
[18:43:57] <brion>	 hmm, mathjax shouldn't be able to affect that AaronSchulz 
[18:43:59] <brion>	 hopefully :)
[18:44:00] <Krenair>	 Literally just the commit message changed
[18:44:05] <Krenair>	 First one succeeded
[18:44:06] <Krenair>	 Second failed
[18:44:16] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Do you have a better short term for "access to Labs and to Git and Gerrit to help you make bots, comment on code, and submit code and configuration changes"?
[18:44:17] <Reedy>	 Merge conflict
[18:44:27] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: Yes, in the wikitech-l messages
[18:44:31] <Krenair>	 ah: 18:42:56  CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in RELEASE-NOTES-1.20
[18:44:32] <Krenair>	 :(
[18:44:38] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:ok, thnx
[18:44:42] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Show name of Main Page (instead of URL) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33283  +comment (10Phil Chang)
[18:44:53] <joancreus>	 should a script which, in the 'Special:Backlinks' page allows to, using '+', load the backlinks of a backlinked page, be part of core or as an extension?
[18:44:53] <Reedy>	 How did the discusssion to move RELEASE-NOTES out of VCS go?
[18:45:09] <Krenair>	 I did suggest moving it to the wiki
[18:45:14] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: After all, systems administrators should also be included.  And many of them do not consider themselves developers.
[18:45:17] <Reedy>	 Indeed
[18:45:18] <Krenair>	 I don't think anyone listened to me though :D
[18:45:21] <Reedy>	 Hence asking the question ;)
[18:45:31] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Scrolling within Wikipedia app is slow and sluggish - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35777  04CRIT->04BLOCKER (10Tomasz Finc)
[18:46:51] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Names are hard.  There's a saying that there are two hard problems in engineering: naming, cache invalidation, and off-by-one errors.
[18:48:20] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: I am ok with the tradeoff that we have made in naming this "developer access" and being very inclusive in letting people have it.  "Developer access" is a very easy-to-understand phrase, and we let anyone come, learn, and grow.  Some of these people will not contribute very much, or at all, but that's ok.  It's worth the tradeoff, because we will also GET people who would have been turned off by ANY KIND of gatekeeping/application proces
[18:48:20] <sumanah>	 s.
[18:49:11] <Lcawte>	 Do it, and get Reedy to approve the commit that deletes the notes :P
[18:49:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Show name of Main Page (instead of URL) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33283  +comment (10Yuvi Panda)
[18:49:23] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: I would suggest that requesting users should show a simple PHP code related to MediaWiki. Just to say: I know what am I talking about
[18:49:25] <G_SabinoMullane>	 sumanah: +1
[18:50:02] <Krenair>	 Tim_Weyer: Still seems like an unnecessary hurdle to me.
[18:50:12] <Lcawte>	 Special:ReleaseNotes and just fill up the users database with release notes sounds a good idea to me ^.^
[18:50:34] <Reedy>	 CR could build release notes
[18:50:52] <Reedy>	 could/can
[18:51:17] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: The only benefit we would get from that is that we would be satisfying your desire to avoid giving some people the benefit of a particular label.  You have not shown that there would be any additional benefit, and we know that there would be new problems.
[18:51:44] <Tim_Weyer>	 Krenair: When I requested commit access, I needed to send a code to prove that I know a bit about MediaWiki and PHP
[18:52:26] <Krenair>	 Basically you want a fix to a non-issue
[18:52:28] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: There would just be problems for people who don't know anything about coding
[18:52:46] <sumanah>	 No, there wouldn't
[18:53:28] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: We requested that info during the Subversion commit access process to mitigate the risk that people would break trunk, or break extensions, because we were letting people automatically merge
[18:54:14] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: I think you should reread the Git Workflow document so you can be more specific in arguing what the harms from a more open policy would be
[18:54:45] <Sid-G>	 Tim_Weyer:I dont know anything about php, python or mediawiki code. I still have and would like to have the ability to atleast comment on commits.
[18:54:51] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: I think you haven't really understood what Krenair and I have been saying.... so maybe go read that doc?
[18:55:10] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: it wouldn't change by argument about real developers and people who just want to be mentioned as developers
[18:55:13] <sumanah>	 Yeah, Sid-G makes a good point -- we need to let people comment on commits, and sometimes they will be nondevelopers like me
[18:55:25] <Sid-G>	 or me
[18:55:37] <Krenair>	 From what I understand SVN had review AFTER changes were merged (pushed? commited? not sure what the term is for svn) - it would actually be problematic to give clueless users access there
[18:55:46] <Krenair>	 With gerrit it is not
[18:56:05] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: So your argument regarding "real developers" .... it would help if you could come up with a good, short, inclusive alternate name
[18:56:23] <Tim_Weyer>	 Commenting commits is okay, committing is another thing
[18:56:23] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 Never loads an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35771  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[18:56:26] <Sid-G>	 Tim_Weyer:How does it matter if nondevs get to be called devs? just a label at the end of the day
[18:56:37] <Krenair>	 Comments aren't done with commits
[18:56:43] <Krenair>	 They just go in gerrit
[18:57:05] <Sid-G>	 Tim_Weyer:commits don't get merged without the project owner reviewing the commit as ok
[18:57:17] <Qcoder00>	 Hi does anyone here know how setup pages using Proofread Page extension so that one column can be on wiki and the other column on a different wiki?
[18:57:23] <Sid-G>	 Tim_Weyer:so noobs can't harm the project other than annoying the project owners
[18:58:10] <Krenair>	 I very much doubt someone who doesn't know how to code will ever get far enough to submit annoying stuff anyway
[18:58:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Show name of Main Page (instead of URL) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33283  +comment (10Phil Chang)
[18:58:42] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114806> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[18:58:42] <codurr>	 refactored comprates + minor fixes
[18:58:42] <codurr>	 * comprates now gives interface to cohortrate
[18:58:42] <codurr>	 * fixed comments in lifecyle.rates
[18:58:43] <codurr>	 * renamed fetchrates into fetchcounts (more accurate)
[18:58:44] <codurr>	 * deleted scripts/groupbyday
[18:58:45] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114804> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/ (lifecycle/rates.py scripts/fetchrates): first refactoring step to lifecycle.rates
[18:58:46] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114807> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/scripts/fitting: refactored fitting
[18:58:47] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114805> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/scripts/fetchrates:
[18:58:48] <codurr>	 refactored scripts/fetchrates
[18:58:49] <codurr>	 Now fetchrates only fetches the count data and saves them into an npz file
[18:58:50] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114808> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/scripts/fitcounts: changed executable perm to fitcounts
[18:58:51] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114809> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/ (12 files in 2 dirs): GPL text is now part of the comments and not a docstring anymore
[18:58:52] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114810> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/lifecycle/ (models.py scale.py): small fixes to lifecycle.models and lifecycle.scale
[18:58:53] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114811> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/scripts/fitting: added legend to fit plots
[18:58:54] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114812> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/sql/ratesnobots.sql: small stylistic fix to sql/ratesnobots.sql
[18:59:29] <Tim_Weyer>	 no, comments aren't done with commits. But if anyone can call oneself a 'coder', I see no sense in that name
[18:59:33] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 Settings menu never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35772  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[18:59:45] <Krenair>	 Anyone can call themselves a developer
[19:00:08] <Krenair>	 It could be false but it's harmless and there's nothing that can/should be done about it
[19:00:28] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Brion VIBBER; "(bug 30410) Remove deprecated $wgFilterCallback. The 'filtered' API error was also removed, along with EditPage::AS_FILTERING." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[19:00:40] <Lcawte>	 Krenair: I could give one of my friends a few links and tell them to submit a couple of .txt files full of spam links if you want, they don't know how to code...
[19:00:52] <brion>	 Krenair: that should fix the patchset (had a conflict on release notes)
[19:00:56] <Krenair>	 Thanks for fixing that brion :)
[19:01:20] <Joe_____>	 Hey has anyone had any luck using the login API?
[19:01:24] <joancreus>	 question: which script decides whether to import the javascripts specific to a page? for example, mw.special.preferences
[19:01:36] <joancreus>	 s/to a page/to a special page
[19:01:45] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4550
[19:01:48] <Krenair>	 Lcawte, that would be annoying.
[19:01:56] <Tim_Weyer>	 Calling themselves a 'coder' is the one thing, but getting called a 'coder' by MediaWiki.org is another thing
[19:01:58] <Krenair>	 But, as we said, not harmful
[19:02:00] <codurr>	 03giovanni * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114813> 10/trunk/tools/wsor/editor_lifecycle/setup.py: updated setup.py
[19:02:05] <Reedy>	 Joe_____: yes
[19:02:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Clicking on non-article links traps you in some other website - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35787  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:02:39] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Non-latin search returns no results - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35788  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:02:44] <Joe_____>	 Reedy do you know where to find example code?  I am unfamiliar with curl.
[19:02:51] <Joe_____>	 I don't even know what curl is.
[19:02:59] <Krenair>	 Tim_Weyer, getting called a coder by MediaWiki.org means they have SVN access. That's unrelated to the discussion
[19:03:11] <Reedy>	 !apiclientcode
[19:03:11] <mw-bot>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code
[19:03:18] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) Enable WebFonts extension on mr.wikisource.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35426  +comment (10Niklas Laxström)
[19:03:34] <Tim_Weyer>	 Krenair, sumanah: I accept your opinion and it's okay if the majority says: access for everyone; because it's the MAJORITY
[19:03:36] <Reedy>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Login#How_to_log_in
[19:04:04] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) A last text fragment from a block element is not included in the paragraph if it does not end with a new line - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35789  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:04:05] <Joe_____>	 Thanks reedy
[19:04:07] <potter>	 !doc
[19:04:07] <mw-bot>	 An overview of available documentation about MediaWiki can be found at <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_hub>
[19:04:24] <Joe_____>	 I will let you know if I have any questions.
[19:04:45] <Sid-G>	 sumanah: Found this about the deployment: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-April/059766.html Doesn't make much sense to me
[19:05:02] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) extending Narayam Marathi support in wiktionaries across all languages other than Marathi Wiktionary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35790  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:05:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Nav bar takes up too much space in landscape more on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35795  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:05:24] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Nav bar icons don't stretch to full device width on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35796  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:05:32] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: OK, if you don't particularly want to pursue this line of discussion, that's fine.  I do want to ask you to consider the tradeoffs involved in this, because I think you might be interested in thinking about inclusivity and its costs and benefits.
[19:06:06] <sumanah>	 In general.
[19:06:47] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Showing loginfo for watchlist causes an error - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35797  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:07:19] <Joe_____>	 So Reedy is all of this user information placed in POST to the web server?
[19:07:37] <Reedy>	 pretty much
[19:07:54] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 Is unable to recover after clearing history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35773  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[19:07:58] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Looks ok, would like a double-check from RL experts." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4564
[19:08:47] <Joe_____>	 Ok thanks.  I will look into it.
[19:10:20] <Sid-G>	 sumanah: ?
[19:10:27] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The character '�' appears twice in search suggestions in the Hebrew Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35819  +comment (10kipod)
[19:10:30] <sumanah>	 hi Sid-G - I'm sorry, I was in the middle of a few things
[19:10:51] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: Developers here, like Chad and Sam (^demon & Reedy), might be able to shed more light on the situation.
[19:10:52] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:I can wait. Just wasn't sure if u'd seen the post
[19:11:39] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Show name of Main Page (instead of URL) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33283  +comment (10Phil Chang)
[19:11:51] <Sid-G>	 ^demon: Reedy: Feel free to shed light when u get back here :D
[19:12:15] <Reedy>	 In the grand scheme of things, it's pretty much how you'd do it now
[19:12:21] <Reedy>	 Version numbers on Special:Version mean little
[19:12:38] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) iOS 4.2 crashes when saving an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35833 normal; Wikipedia App: Save Article; (tfinc)
[19:12:48] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:I have no idea how we do it now. Isn't there any doc about that anywhere?
[19:12:50] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah, Krenair: you said your opinion, I said mine. I don't want to exclude interested people, I just want to protect the name 'developer'. It's the same as you want to protect the name '(Wikimedia) staff member' or 'Wikimedia steward'. I somehow agree with the majority ;-)
[19:12:59] <Reedy>	 AFAIK no
[19:13:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 crashes when saving an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35833  (10Tomasz Finc)
[19:13:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikipedia Mobile app has serious issues with iOS 4.2 - Tracking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35776  (10Tomasz Finc)
[19:13:22] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:Then plz feel free to explain a bit
[19:13:34] <Reedy>	 See if it's been merged or not based on the commit logs
[19:13:39] <Reedy>	 That's about all you can do
[19:13:44] <Sid-G>	 its been merged on gerrit
[19:13:45] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: Then please help me think up a new term for this kind of access.
[19:13:55] <Reedy>	 merged on gerrit only means it's on master on gerrit
[19:14:00] <Reedy>	 no reflection on any possible deployment
[19:14:08] <^demon>	 Reedy: We have revision graphs for that now ;-)
[19:14:12] <Sid-G>	 and no possible way to find out?
[19:14:13] <Krenair>	 Simply "gerrit access"?
[19:14:25] <Reedy>	 atm, see if there is a merge commit in svn
[19:14:27] <^demon>	 And since we'll be regularly branching master, it'll be pretty easy to determine.
[19:14:37] <Reedy>	 if there is, 99% means it'll be deployed
[19:14:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4422
[19:14:52] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:The wmf deployment is still from svn?
[19:14:55] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: I'll do it if you want me to. But I don't want to do anything with that the majority doesn't agree
[19:14:56] <Reedy>	 yes
[19:15:04] <Reedy>	 starting tomorrow it'll be changed over
[19:15:05] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:ok
[19:15:12] <sumanah>	 Krenair: No - because it also gives Labs access and possibly other related tools in the future, right?
[19:15:29] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: The only way to know whether people will agree is to give them a choice to think about :-)
[19:15:32] <Krenair>	 Labs access is just an account on labsconsole isn't it?
[19:15:51] <sumanah>	 Tim_Weyer: (also, you've heard from approx 5 people just now, which is just a tiny fraction of our community)
[19:16:04] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: sounds logically ^^
[19:16:18] <sumanah>	 Krenair: Right now, what we're calling "developer access" gives a person single sign-on access to both Labs and to Gerrit.
[19:17:15] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "test cases pass in parserTests.php" [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4422
[19:17:16] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4422
[19:17:41] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Add Linux libertine to webFonts - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35834 enhancement; MediaWiki extensions: WebFonts; (thomaspt)
[19:19:08] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: I'll prepare a proposal for a vote
[19:19:48] <Tim_Weyer>	 sumanah: or just a thing for active people on IRC, for now
[19:20:29] <Sid-G>	 Reedy: I'm looking at http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/Narayam/resources/ and not seeing the change from gerrit merged here. Am i looking in the right place?
[19:20:37] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4503
[19:20:44] <Reedy>	 No
[19:21:00] <Reedy>	 http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/wmf/1.19wmf1/extensions/Narayam/resources/
[19:21:07] * Sid-G  looks

[19:21:43] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:change not merged in there
[19:21:48] <Krenair>	 "Deprecated functions that are not in the way, should not be removed is the current consensus."
[19:21:49] <Reedy>	 so they're not live
[19:21:49] <wikibugs>	 03(ASSIGNED) The character '�' appears twice in search suggestions in the Hebrew Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35819  +comment (10Amir E. Aharoni)
[19:21:49] <Krenair>	 Is this true?
[19:22:17] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:I know that it isn't live
[19:22:25] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Image name can't have ampersand character - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35798  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:22:30] <Reedy>	 err, good? :/
[19:22:36] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:What I want to know is how to find out when it will be?
[19:22:44] <Reedy>	 You can't really
[19:22:49] <Reedy>	 Sometime in the future
[19:23:03] <Reedy>	 i18n/l10n projects usually get updated to site weekly (if reviewed)
[19:23:13] <Reedy>	 But there is apparently a code deployment freeze this week
[19:23:20] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows strange message - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835 normal; Wikipedia App: Save Article; (philinje)
[19:23:25] <Reedy>	 !deployments
[19:23:26] <mw-bot>	 I don't know anything about "deployments".
[19:23:38] <Reedy>	 !deployments is http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Software_deployments
[19:23:39] <mw-bot>	 Successfully added keyword: deployments
[19:23:47] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,3514 merged on apr5, not deployed
[19:23:53] <Reedy>	 Indeed
[19:23:56] <Reedy>	 And?
[19:24:09] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Post 3.1.1 tracker for Wikipedia Mobile on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35780  (10Phil Chang)
[19:24:09] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows strange message - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835  (10Phil Chang)
[19:24:23] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) ShiConverter duplicate array key in $mToLatin - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35799  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:24:45] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:well, it included error fixes and I'm basically here to hopefully annoy someone enough into making a way to find out when stuff will be deployed
[19:25:11] <Reedy>	 There's a deployment freeze
[19:25:21] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Brion VIBBER; "(bug 33564) transwiki import sometimes result in invalid title" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4503
[19:25:21] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Gerrit uses flash - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35800  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:25:24] <Reedy>	 So unless something is majorly broken, you'll have to wait
[19:25:35] * Sid-G  sighs and waits

[19:25:48] <Sid-G>	 not major, but annoyingly broken
[19:25:49] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Gerrit email title truncation over eager - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35802  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:26:15] <Reedy>	 Normally, it would have probably been done earlier today
[19:26:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4503
[19:27:06] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:1.20 is being deployed in a week?
[19:27:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 hmm
[19:27:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 maybe someone here can help me
[19:27:22] <Reedy>	 tomorrow for test2
[19:27:25] <Reedy>	 maybe mw.org this week
[19:27:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 how can I create a new line character as a template parameter
[19:27:48] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: robla is basically in charge of this new deployment schedule, and guillom is going to be communicating it out to the community
[19:27:51] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows strange message - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835  +comment (10Yuvi Panda)
[19:27:54] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4503
[19:27:56] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Brion VIBBER; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4503
[19:27:59] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:And the magicword translations will still be deployed only on version updates; meaning I have a week to update any of them if i want to?
[19:28:02] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: including you! maybe you can help guillom  .... Sid-G are you on the wikitech-ambassadors list?
[19:28:18] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) SemanticForms: Tooltip for text inputs. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35836 enhancement; MediaWiki extensions: SemanticForms; (van.de.bugger)
[19:28:20] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:no
[19:28:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Aaron Schulz; "[FlaggedRevs] Section anchor link encoding fixes for bug 35661." [mediawiki/extensions/FlaggedRevs] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4570
[19:28:39] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) SemanticForms: Tooltip for text inputs. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35836   +need-review +patch (10Van de Bugger)
[19:28:41] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:I'm more on the "users annoying devs at IRC" list :P
[19:28:52] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) Section Link in MediaWiki:Revreview-edited-section does not display special characters properly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35661  +comment (10Aaron Schulz)
[19:28:57] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: it's very low-traffic and I think you'd enjoy it
[19:29:13] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: it's like 2 msgs per month
[19:29:28] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:Seriously, that's an emergency-ish q about the magicword translation updates
[19:30:32] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:I still regret joining the single list i did get joined to (which incidentally i don't remember adding my name to)
[19:30:45] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: what list is that? 
[19:30:56] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:wikihi-l
[19:31:06] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:even less than 2msgs a month
[19:31:46] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:If I update any magicword translations in this week, is there a chance of them being deployed with 1.20?
[19:31:53] <Reedy>	 Possiblyt
[19:32:02] <Reedy>	 Though likely not if we branch tomorrow
[19:32:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 to demonstrate, see: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:050817-N-3488C-028.jpg
[19:32:38] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Nuke should respect flood flag - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35784  +comment (10Thehelpfulone)
[19:32:47] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 notice how there is a . that creates an extra line?
[19:32:56] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:And magicword translations will still be done with version updates even though we're using git now?
[19:33:05] <Reedy>	 No idea
[19:33:07] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAssessments&diff=69597288&oldid=69597170
[19:33:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 that is because of this
[19:33:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 how can I have the same effect with the . removed?
[19:33:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 \otherwise ---- isnt properly rendered as it requires a newline before it
[19:35:29] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:I dont really see the point of an ambassadors lit with less than 2msgs a month. The large-scale changes are discussed on various VPs anyway
[19:35:33] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) CheckExtensionsCLI instantiates PremadeMediawikiExtensionGroups with incorrect constructor parameters - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35804  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:35:51] <sumanah>	 Sid-G: the hope is to eventually make the list into a community that crosses individual wikis
[19:35:55] <sumanah>	 and can communicate among them
[19:36:25] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) bad font rendering in EasyTimeline - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35805  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:36:29] <Sid-G>	 sumanah:all the best :)
[19:36:48] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Special:ExpandTemplates outputs different html than any page on preview/save as well as in Result & Preview sections - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35806  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:36:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I think I solved it
[19:37:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 nevermind :)
[19:37:37] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Feedback submission button not working - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35807  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:39:06] <Sid-G>	 Reedy:The change hasn't been merged into svn. That means it will be deployed whenever 1.20 is deployed, right?
[19:39:27] <Reedy>	 In most cases, yes
[19:39:40] <Sid-G>	 ok
[19:39:45] <Sid-G>	 thnx Reedy
[19:40:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Brion VIBBER; "Looks sane, has had fixes from prior review, but not sure how to test it." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4481
[19:41:47] <joancreus>	 Krinkle: i've added some code here https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30713 : it now allows chaining and to remove callbacks
[19:42:59] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) The character '�' appears twice in search suggestions in the Hebrew Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35819  +comment (10Amir E. Aharoni)
[19:43:47] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Policy template runs off the page for Wiktionary:Etymology page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35678  +comment (10Patrick Hayes)
[19:45:39] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) $wgExternalLinkTarget = ‘_blank’ doesn't work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35808  summary; +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:47:02] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) GENDER magic word doesn't work in Serbian - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35809  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:48:19] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) ! N pages non-patrol-able - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35810  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:48:53] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) the message moodbar-form-note-dynamic doesn't support PLURAL - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35811  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:49:33] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The tip of the MoodBar bubble points to the left in RTL environments - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35812  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:51:57] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Need a way to debug exceptions thrown from my ResourceLoader module "Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35814  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:52:13] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Commit message on diff not updated after a new one is provided with --amend - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35816  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:54:34] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows index.html title - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835  summary (10Yuvi Panda)
[19:55:08] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Allow inverted logs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35817  normal->15enhancement; +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:56:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Change of Armenian Wikipedia namespace - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35818   +shell (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:57:06] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The character '�' appears twice in search suggestions in the Hebrew Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35819  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:58:04] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) SVGs state "No higher resolution available" on file description page - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35821  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[19:59:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Output preview should go through Tidy if Tidy is used to process article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35822  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:01:46] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) The character '�' appears twice in search suggestions in the Hebrew Wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35819  +comment (10kipod)
[20:01:50] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikijunior and cookbook namespaces for the Vietnamese Wikibooks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35823  +comment (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:11:24] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) autocreation of accounts skips filter action == 'createaccount' - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35824  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:12:07] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) fullurl arguments exposing nowiki stripmarkers - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35825  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:12:08] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) UNIQ issues (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/26213  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:12:52] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Special:UserRights does not accept GET params - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35827  normal->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:15:39] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows index.html title - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835  +comment (10Phil Chang)
[20:19:16] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[20:27:22] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Sometimes the nearby layer can be scrolled up to reveal the web page beneath it. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35828  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:27:36] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) WikiStats comparison charts of (very) active users are broken, 0 is shown as missing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35829  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:28:28] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Post 3.1.1 tracker for Wikipedia Mobile on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35780  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:28:28] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Saved pages window never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35774  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:28:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) If set, fullurl should use $wgArticlePath to create URLs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35830  minor->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:29:02] <Platonides>	 DanielFriesen, can you add me to labs gareth?
[20:29:54] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Label should use CSS padding instead of &nbsp; - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35831  trivial->15enhancement (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:30:03] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Keyboard is not getting dismissed after full screen search scroll - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35832  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[20:30:17] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Post 3.1.1 tracker for Wikipedia Mobile on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35780  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:30:18] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Never loads an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35771  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:30:19] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Settings menu never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35772  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:30:22] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Is unable to recover after clearing history - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35773  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:30:23] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Near by shows no tiles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35775  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:32:40] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) Content disappears on certain toggles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837 normal; Wikimedia Mobile: Generic; (jrobson)
[20:32:51] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content disappears on certain toggles (white flash) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837  summary (10Jon)
[20:51:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content disappears on certain toggles (white flash) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837  +comment (10Jon)
[20:54:03] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 crashes when saving an article - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35833  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:54:27] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) iOS 4.2 Saved pages window never loads - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35774  +comment (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:55:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content disappears on certain toggles (white flash) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:55:58] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content disappears on certain toggles (white flash) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:55:59] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Post 3.1.1 tracker for Wikipedia Mobile on iOS - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35780  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:56:11] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Introduce custom events for MediaWiki's front-end flow - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30713  +comment (10Krinkle)
[20:58:49] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) iOS 4.2 Startup time is horrendously long - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35838 normal; Wikipedia App: Generic; (tfinc)
[20:59:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Startup time is horrendously long - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35838  (10Tomasz Finc)
[20:59:14] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikipedia Mobile app has serious issues with iOS 4.2 - Tracking - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35776  (10Tomasz Finc)
[21:01:23] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Startup time is horrendously long - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35838  +comment (10Yuvi Panda)
[21:04:07] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: GWicke; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4330
[21:04:10] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: GWicke; [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4330
[21:04:56] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: GWicke; "Add basic thumb rendering support" [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4575
[21:11:34] <Amgine>	 Who is doing what with microformats?
[21:16:20] <wikibugs>	 14(INVALID) Image name can't have ampersand character - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35798  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:16:40] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) $wgExternalLinkTarget = ‘_blank’ doesn't work - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35808  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:16:51] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Wikijunior and cookbook namespaces for the Vietnamese Wikibooks - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35823  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:17:16] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Hitting clear in Saved Pages shows index.html title - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35835  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:17:31] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Content disappears on certain toggles (white flash) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35837  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:17:41] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) iOS 4.2 Startup time is horrendously long - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35838  (10Mark A. Hershberger)
[21:19:02] <Lcawte>	 I was just reading this... https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/04/09/download-the-text-of-the-entire-english-wikipedia/ ... I'm sad to read that in the event of a zombie appocolypse, the WMF servers will go offline... or the internet will be shut down... :(
[21:19:31] <Lcawte>	 Actually, thats not what it says, don't worry...
[21:21:31] <YuviPanda>	 Lcawte: in the event of a zombie apocalypse, a print copy of enwiki (including talk pages!) would be most helpful
[21:21:45] <YuviPanda>	 paper is reasonable fuel, plus heavy objects can be used as weapons
[21:22:24] <Lcawte>	 Surely paper mills would stop making paper though, and of course, you might accidently ruin the pages on zombies etc...
[21:23:00] <ikesultan>	 I'm new to coding, so sorry if this is a basic question. I've installed mediawiki on my fatcow server, and I'm trying to backup the site. One of the steps is to run the dumpBackup.php file in the maintenance folder. fatcow support told me that there's no where on fatcow to run a command such as php dumpBackup.php, rather it has to be done on a command line. Is this an issue with fatcow or is there an alternative?
[21:23:17] <Sid-G>	 doesn't wmf keep copies of its projects in all its offices?
[21:24:29] <Lcawte>	 I'd rather not walk into an office full of educated zombies... especially when they can read about zombie survival ;P
[21:26:11] * YuviPanda  uses shotgun with chicken pieces for shots at Lcawte 

[21:27:41] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) Javascript error in ShortURL: mw.Uri balks on uris without protocol and host - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35658  summary; +comment (10Lupo)
[21:28:02] <RoanKattouw_away>	 Sid-G: All of our offices? All one of them? ;)
[21:28:46] <Sid-G>	 RoanKattouw_away:all two alteast :P
[21:29:33] <ikesultan>	 Is there an alternative to run a php file from my webserver without using a command line?
[21:29:38] <Daniel_WMDE>	 !shell ikesultan
[21:29:39] <mw-bot>	 Shell access (that is, SSH access, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSH) is highly recommended if you want to run MediaWiki. You can install without it, and basic operation will work, but even creating backups or upgrading will be painful without it. Some more involved maintenance tasks may even be impossible. MediaWiki is not designed for minimal environments.
[21:29:58] <Daniel_WMDE>	 hm, there should be a helpful link to phpshell or some such...
[21:30:04] <Daniel_WMDE>	 !phpshell
[21:30:04] <mw-bot>	 PHP Shell emulates shell access to a system. Read more about it and download it at <http://phpshell.sf.net/>.
[21:30:10] <Daniel_WMDE>	 ikesultan: ---^
[21:30:21] <ikesultan>	 thanks
[21:30:26] <Daniel_WMDE>	 ikesultan: not recommended, though. iky. dangerous.
[21:30:36] <Daniel_WMDE>	 real hosting is much to be preferred
[21:32:11] <Daniel_WMDE>	 ikesultan: you can also use Special:Export to create a dump, if your site is small enough. it's bound to time out if it's more than a few hundred revisions.
[21:32:38] <Daniel_WMDE>	 mind you, this would give you the content, not an operational backup containing user accounts, etc.
[21:33:13] <Sieva__>	 @Daniel_WMDE That's perfect, how would i use special:export for the entire wiki?
[21:33:21] <ikesultan>	 yeah, I was just giving an example of the issue I had, but running commands in general was the real issue, so thanks, I'll look at ssh and the other links
[21:34:30] <Amgine>	 Sieva__: For a wiki larger than a few hundred revisions, you should probably use the API.
[21:34:41] <Sieva__>	 main reason is I'm trying to build the wiki with an entirely fresh installation, and add the existing content to it. It's been years since the first install, and admin handed over multiple times
[21:35:10] <Sid-G>	 RoanKattouw_away:I stand corrected. all one of them indeed
[21:36:13] <Lcawte>	 I'll ask WMUK to get copies at their office as well, I don't think I could get to the US in time if there was a zombie outbreak, I think WMDE would do the same... they already have a digital copy ^.^
[21:36:15] <Amgine>	 Sid-G: make it a requirement of all Chapters, to keep a paper copy in case of zombie apocalypse
[21:36:19] <Sieva__>	 @ikesultan: the revisions are unimportant at this point, it's a private intranet wiki
[21:36:53] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:Right, so that half the governments can ban the chapters for one thing or another
[21:37:15] <Sieva__>	 @RoanKattouw: * A meek noob thanks you for all your work. 
[21:37:26] <Amgine>	 <gg> Like storing too much combustible material without a permit.
[21:38:24] <Amgine>	 Daniel_WMDE: about wikidata: is there any place I can direct people who want to know more?
[21:38:49] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:I wonder what happens in case of WW3
[21:39:21] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:USGov restricts access to wmf projects to allies? seems plausible
[21:39:39] * Sid-G  wonders if that would be legal in the US

[21:39:43] <Amgine>	 The new asteroid belt will not need a copy of WP.
[21:39:55] <Sid-G>	 hehe
[21:39:55] <hashar>	 is there a zombie outbreak ongoing?
[21:40:05] * ^demon  hands hashar his tinfoil hat

[21:40:08] <hashar>	 still have some code to commit
[21:40:10] <Sieva__>	 zombies, consumerists... same difference
[21:40:36] <Sid-G>	 what happens in case of non-nuclear ww3
[21:40:40] <hashar>	 ^demon: danke!!
[21:40:56] * hashar  moves to the basement for quarantine

[21:41:10] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Convert jasmin test for mediawiki.Uri module to qunit - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35769  +comment (10Lupo)
[21:41:26] <Amgine>	 Sid-G: the surviving microbes will eventually develop their own WP
[21:41:42] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:non-nuke ww3
[21:41:52] <Amgine>	 Chemical/Biological
[21:42:01] <Amgine>	 The evil triad.
[21:42:08] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:And the surviving cockroaches btw
[21:42:08] <Sid-G>	 :P
[21:42:29] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) SSL client certificate authentication - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/3729  +comment (10Jason)
[21:42:40] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Trevor Parscal; "Removed line-height from preview panel" [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4576
[21:42:50] <^demon>	 Yes, because I'm sure "write a free content encyclopedia" is on the cockroach todo list, right under "survive the nuclear apocalypse."
[21:43:24] <Lcawte>	 In the event of the US restricting WMF projects, WMDE has a fairly recent copy of the databases, and either way, I'm fine... I'm an hour on a plane from Germany, and currently, the UK and US are allies...
[21:43:59] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:does anyone even have any of those anymore?
[21:44:09] <Amgine>	 Yes.
[21:44:21] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:who?
[21:44:37] <Amgine>	 Well, the USA had receipts for the chem/bio they sent to Iraq.
[21:44:51] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:and they never found any
[21:44:58] <Amgine>	 Yes, they did. 
[21:45:30] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:I'm assuming they destroyed any chem/bio weapons if they found them
[21:45:37] <Daniel_WMDE>	 Amgine: meta:Wikidata is the best place atm
[21:45:53] <Amgine>	 Really? okay, I'll point 'em there.
[21:45:59] <Amgine>	 It's really... squishy.
[21:46:42] <Daniel_WMDE>	 Amgine: i think the proposal is pretty clear, but we are still figuring out how much of all the things that would eb nice we can actually schieve, and how
[21:47:07] <Daniel_WMDE>	 i'm pretty certain about the basics. the extras are squishy :)
[21:47:10] <Amgine>	 Oh, I was wrong... different really old wikidata page. With 2007 deadline.
[21:47:18] <Amgine>	 (s)
[21:47:24] <^demon>	 There is no deadline ;-)
[21:47:47] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) rename museum-l to glam - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35490  +comment (10Ryan Kaldari)
[21:47:59] <Daniel_WMDE>	 I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. (DNS)
[21:48:11] <Daniel_WMDE>	 actually, i plan to be on time with this one :)
[21:48:23] <Daniel_WMDE>	 the old wikidata stuff was moved out of the way, i htink
[21:48:54] <Amgine>	 kk Daniel_WMDE.
[21:49:23] * hashar  waits for the zombies to come by.

[21:49:28] <JeroenDeDauw>	 I wrote a bunch of inline comments on gerrit which are all in draft state now. How do I publish them? I don't see any button...
[21:49:50] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:u were refering to the first gulf war when u said they found bioweapons right?
[21:50:03] <Sid-G>	 JeroenDeDauw:click review
[21:50:09] <Lcawte>	 I need to put pictures of Jimmy's face on my website... I want one of these http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eqiadwmf_9045.jpg
[21:50:13] <Sid-G>	 JeroenDeDauw:then click on publish comments
[21:50:18] <Amgine>	 Sid-G: no.
[21:50:23] <hashar>	 JeroenDeDauw: that is a [Review]  button under the patch sets list
[21:50:26] * Daniel_WMDE  should go to bed. /me wrote DNS instead of DNA. which is the german abbrev for DNA. But was referring to Douglas Adams... Brain is strange :)

[21:50:28] * Sid-G  comes by Hashar's basement

[21:50:43] <hashar>	 JeroenDeDauw: will then show you a text area to fill in a cover message
[21:50:55] <hashar>	 Sid-G: I will shoot on sight sorry :D
[21:51:03] <Sid-G>	 Amgine:The second one?
[21:51:07] <Daniel_WMDE>	 JeroenDeDauw: inline comments are part of a review. so you have to finish your review by, well, reviewing (with a zero score).
[21:51:08] <Amgine>	 Yes.
[21:51:10] <Daniel_WMDE>	 kind of makes sense
[21:51:19] <Daniel_WMDE>	 totally annoying and coutner-intuitive.
[21:51:23] <Daniel_WMDE>	 but it makes sense.
[21:51:52] <Sid-G>	 hashar:have u considered invisible zombies? :P
[21:53:58] <Sid-G>	 Amgine: I doubt that. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_biological_weapons_program#2003_invasion_of_Iraq
[21:55:01] <Sid-G>	 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War btw
[21:55:05] <hashar>	 Zaaahghh Zaahhghh Sid-G 
[21:56:07] <Zombie_0003>	 zaaaghhh
[21:56:31] <Sid-G>	 hashar:I've already passed by a few minutes ago. Too late...
[21:56:32] <Sid-G>	 :P
[21:57:01] <hashar>	 :)
[21:57:13] * DanielFriesen  shoots Zombie_0003 in the head

[21:57:49] * Sid-G  annoys Amgine with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

[21:58:23] <Sid-G>	 hashar:nice dodge :D
[21:58:33] <hashar>	 thanks 8-)
[21:59:49] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Image name can't have ampersand character - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35798  +comment (10Flávio J. Saraiva)
[22:01:03] <raks>	 looking for recommendations of wiki farms
[22:01:29] <raks>	 I would loke to create a wiki for a special interest group i am involved with
[22:01:40] <raks>	 any particular ones stand out??
[22:03:24] <sumanah>	 hey Lydia_WMDE - if I wanted to reuse a photo of you in something about the Berlin hackathon or whatever, is there one to link to?
[22:03:30] <sumanah>	 There's one of Daniel_WMDE https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:Daniel_K._-_Wikimedia_2011_hackathon_in_Berlin_039.jpg
[22:03:37] <sumanah>	 arrgh secure.wm.o link
[22:03:58] <Daniel_WMDE>	 eek
[22:04:24] <sumanah>	 Daniel_WMDE: aren't you on vacation?
[22:04:26] <sumanah>	 or something?
[22:04:30] <Daniel_WMDE>	 yes
[22:04:36] <Duesentrieb>	 better :)
[22:04:40] <sumanah>	 ha!
[22:04:49] <sumanah>	 I was thinking of recommending that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-04-09/Wikidata include photos of you both
[22:04:57] <sumanah>	 THE FACE OF STRUCTURED DATA
[22:05:33] <Duesentrieb>	 sumanah: ugh... let me send you an email...
[22:05:57] <sumanah>	 Duesentrieb: Oh dear, that does not sound good.
[22:06:04] <pill>	 (trying my luck again with this: :)) hi everyone, there used to be a link on the mobile site (m.wikipedia.org) to permanently turn off the mobile view (i'm not sure about the exact wording was in the english interface). that seems to have disappeared. is there any reason to this?
[22:06:20] <Duesentrieb>	 sumanah: hm? nonono, i'm just vain and want you to use a different pic :)
[22:06:33] <sumanah>	 Duesentrieb: oh heh
[22:06:55] <sumanah>	 pill: raks: sorry that you haven't gotten a response, try the mediawiki-l list?
[22:07:03] <sumanah>	 actually pill you might try the mobile-l list
[22:07:04] <sumanah>	 !lists
[22:07:04] <mw-bot>	 mediawiki-l and wikitech-l are the primary mailing lists for MediaWiki-related issues. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mailing_lists for details.
[22:09:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) action=upload & stash & chunk results in truncated files - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35563  +comment (10Rainer@Rillke.eu)
[22:10:20] <wikibugs>	 03(NEW) PHP 5.4 disables use of 'namespace' variable. - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35840 blocker; MediaWiki extensions: Semantic MediaWiki; (admin)
[22:11:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Trevor Parscal; "Fixed table serialization for Wikitext and HTML serializers" [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4578
[22:13:56] <pill>	 sumanah, hmm, thanks.
[22:14:15] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) bad performance: reverting file versions takes ages for the browser to "come back" (show the success message) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34717  +comment (10Aaron Schulz)
[22:14:26] <Lcawte>	 Anyone else tried to patch using the 1.18.2 patch and not had luck with it?
[22:16:24] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Manually fix blocks from when global oversight log removal problem started - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34995  +comment (10Aaron Schulz)
[22:17:22] <AaronSchulz>	 RoanKattouw: is https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,4482 ok now (when you get the time)?
[22:17:24] <Amgine>	 d: Sid-G
[22:17:28] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[22:18:52] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Manually fix blocks from when global oversight log removal problem started - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34995  +comment (10James Alexander)
[22:21:12] <JeroenDeDauw>	 AaronSchulz: thnx for the review :)
[22:21:31] <JeroenDeDauw>	 Attempting to submit my fixes now...
[22:25:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Catrope; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4482
[22:25:27] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Catrope; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4482
[22:25:57] <RoanKattouw>	 AaronSchulz: --^^
[22:27:47] <Lcawte>	 Ok, I really need to find the logs from Brighton in November... how do you apply a patch to a directory?
[22:28:10] <hoo>	 Hey, is archive.ar_page_id is trusty to check against exisiting pages?
[22:28:17] <RoanKattouw>	 Lcawte: cd into the directory and run patch -p0 --dry-run < path/to/patchfile
[22:28:21] <RoanKattouw>	 Or -p1, -p2 as appropriate
[22:28:37] <RoanKattouw>	 (Look at patch --help to read about the -p flag)
[22:28:51] <Lcawte>	 thanks :)
[22:29:09] <sumanah>	 Lcawte: do you know how to use man pages?
[22:29:24] <sumanah>	 oh wait, are you on Windows, Lcawte?
[22:29:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[22:29:45] <Lcawte>	 Windows, but I'm SSHed into my Ubuntu box because I'm too lazy to go downstairs
[22:30:12] <AaronSchulz>	 RoanKattouw: yay
[22:31:19] <hoo>	 so... no one knows about my question? Already though so, ok :P
[22:31:42] <Joan>	 hoo: You're asking about archive-ar_page_id?
[22:31:47] <Joan>	 archive.ar_page_id?
[22:31:51] <hoo>	 yep
[22:31:53] <Joan>	 I'm not sure I understand your question.
[22:32:19] <Joan>	 As far as I know, archive.ar_page_id isn't used at all in MediaWiki currently.
[22:32:32] <JeroenDeDauw>	 I have some lame merge conflict, and not sure how to get rid of it: "both modified:      languages/messages/MessagesQqq.php"
[22:32:35] <Joan>	 It stores the page's previous page ID, but a restore of the page will use the next primary key page.page_id from the database.
[22:32:47] <hoo>	 Joan: Oh, mhm
[22:32:48] <Joan>	 It stores --> ar_page_id stores
[22:32:48] <JeroenDeDauw>	 How can I make it have "whatever is on master"
[22:32:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 can someone help me with a template?
[22:33:03] <Joan>	 hoo: One of the issues is that a particular title can have multiple old page IDs.
[22:33:04] <hoo>	 Going to go over a join with titles over page then, thanks anyway
[22:33:08] <Joan>	 There's a bug about this somewhere.
[22:33:11] <Joan>	 Yes.
[22:33:15] <Joan>	 You want ar_namespace, ar_title.
[22:33:31] <hoo>	 Yes ;)
[22:33:40] <Joan>	 Goodbye.
[22:33:47] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Saturn_from_Cassini_Orbiter_(2004-10-06).jpg
[22:33:59] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 you can see how the template has an unneded .
[22:34:08] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 if I dont put it it renders the ---- differently
[22:34:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I am not sure how to fix it
[22:34:24] <Joan>	 What?
[22:34:36] <Joan>	 Oh.
[22:34:39] <Joan>	 Try <hr />?
[22:35:04] <Joan>	 Or a line break.
[22:35:06] <Joan>	 Either should work.
[22:35:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 line break is ignored without the .
[22:35:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I will try the hr trick
[22:37:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 yup that fixed it
[22:39:12] <Joan>	 No problem.
[22:40:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 also is there a feature that checks if a series of templates returns a value
[22:40:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I am not talking about {{#if:
[22:41:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 if does {{#if:check|if true|if false}}
[22:41:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I want to return check if true
[22:41:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 this is to display an error if false basically
[22:41:52] <Sid-G>	 replace if true by check
[22:42:05] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I dont want to run the same code twice
[22:42:24] <Sid-G>	 {{#iferror:
[22:42:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it will return null on error
[22:42:51] <Sid-G>	 then make the templates return an error by default
[22:43:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 that defeats the point
[22:43:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I have a series of checks in the above template
[22:43:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 and I want to return something different if none of the checks come up with something
[22:43:37] <Joan>	 Do you want #ifeq?
[22:43:44] <Sid-G>	 which templates? link?
[22:44:09] <Joan>	 #iferror is beautiful.
[22:44:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Assessments&action=edit
[22:44:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 It is a complex template
[22:45:09] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:u want something to change null to an error code without having to run the code twice for success
[22:45:11] <Sid-G>	 right?
[22:46:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 err
[22:46:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I have a chain of ifs and other parser functions in the code of that template
[22:46:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 these checks return null if the code isnt triggered
[22:46:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 in such a case the code should write an error
[22:47:13] <codurr>	 03bsitu * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114814> 10/trunk/extensions/PageTriage/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add the ability for in-article triage
[22:47:32] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:then make the highes level parser return an error instead of null?
[22:47:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I would prefer an elegant solution thats all :)
[22:47:47] <Joan>	 Try a different wiki engine?
[22:47:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G there is no highest level
[22:48:02] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:use <span class="error">error, u're stupid</span>
[22:48:03] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 they are code running in parallel
[22:48:15] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G where would I put it
[22:48:28] * Sid-G  thinks

[22:48:44] <Sid-G>	 hmm
[22:48:48] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 the code checks if english wikipedia has a featured picutre then goes on to other wikis in parallel
[22:48:59] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 in each case it returns null if not used
[22:49:06] <Sid-G>	 no parser would do it without running the template code twice
[22:49:09] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 nulls pile up to being... null
[22:49:14] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 ah
[22:49:36] <Sid-G>	 for true condition that is
[22:49:56] <Sid-G>	 where is the error code needed btw?
[22:49:58] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Siebrand; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4555
[22:50:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G I just want to tell the user that they need to define parameters and guide them to the documentation if the template isnt passed any valid parameter
[22:51:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I believe #expr: returns the resut
[22:51:10] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 *result
[22:51:44] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:wont give error on null
[22:53:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 no
[22:54:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 but if you {{#expr:1+1}} it returns 2 right?
[22:54:10] <Sid-G>	 yes
[22:54:23] <Joan>	 There's also #ifexpr.
[22:54:47] <Sid-G>	 but no matter which parser u try, it'll first evaluate the input; then for the success case evaluate it again
[22:54:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 of course
[22:55:12] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 oh
[22:55:13] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I see
[22:55:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 hmm
[22:55:19] <Sid-G>	 so no parser will do the job without double calculation
[22:55:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I would like it if it evaluated it once and returned that (whatever the outcome) if not null
[22:55:43] <Sid-G>	 there's not much to do except "Parsers suck. We want Lua" in this case
[22:55:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 ok
[22:56:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I will wish up on a star again then :p
[22:56:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 not sure what lua is
[22:56:18] <Sid-G>	 !lua
[22:56:18] <mw-bot>	 I don't know anything about "lua".
[22:56:29] <Sid-G>	 ok, someone needs to tell the bot
[22:57:33] <Sid-G>	 and i dont know how
[22:57:59] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua_scripting
[22:58:14] <Sid-G>	 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(programming_language)
[22:58:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Trevor Parscal; "Fixed table serialization for Wikitext and HTML serializers" [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4578
[22:59:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 niiice
[22:59:40] <Sid-G>	 indeed
[22:59:59] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I couldnt tell if it had string functions but it probably does since it has charachter arrays
[23:00:14] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 on an unrelated (or perhaps related) note
[23:00:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Generic/Army
[23:00:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I want to have an H bar so that the table does not overflow
[23:00:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 how can I do this?
[23:00:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 see how it extends beyond log out?
[23:01:04] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko	:ok, how many template structue thingies do u work on at the same time?
[23:01:14] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 a lot
[23:01:29] <Sid-G>	 i cant even find time for onw
[23:01:33] <Sid-G>	 *one
[23:01:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I have been working on rank insignia one since 2006
[23:01:43] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 assesments one since 2008
[23:01:50] <Sid-G>	 wow
[23:01:53] <Sid-G>	 thats a long time
[23:01:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 right
[23:01:59] <Sid-G>	 and membership?
[23:02:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I dont code non-stop of course :)
[23:02:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 oh yes
[23:02:07] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 that one too
[23:02:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I have so many I forget :p
[23:02:32] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Aaron Schulz; "MFT r114675; infinite loop fix" [mediawiki/extensions/ConfirmEdit] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4588
[23:02:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 thats a very recent endavour since 2011
[23:02:56] <Sid-G>	 ok, how do u want the table to behave?
[23:03:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 well
[23:03:04] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "I made a bunch of fixes and then tried to submit them back. Gave up after an hour." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:03:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I would want it to go no wider than the actual page
[23:03:17] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it overflows off to the right
[23:03:33] * Sid-G  just remembered something

[23:03:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 If I put this in an article it would be messy
[23:03:41] * Sid-G  will brb

[23:03:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 O_O
[23:04:19] <Sid-G>	 but how should it behave?
[23:04:25] <Sid-G>	 scroll?
[23:04:28] <Sid-G>	 hide?
[23:04:42] <Sid-G>	 what to do with the overflow?
[23:05:59] <Sid-G>	 what is the behaviour u want/expect?
[23:06:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 an h bar
[23:06:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 horizontal scroll bar
[23:06:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 like the one already on the browser but in a smaller area
[23:06:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 so that the width does not exceed
[23:06:27] <Joan>	 That's an overflow:auto; thing.
[23:06:39] <Joan>	 <div style="overflow:auto;"></div> or something.
[23:06:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 How would I warp that around the table?
[23:06:47] <Sid-G>	 that should be easily possible, though i dont know how
[23:06:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 ok let me try that
[23:06:52] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Demon; "Fix tabbing" [mediawiki/core] (Wikidata) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4590
[23:07:46] <codurr>	 New code comment: ^demon; Took care of it [[gerrit:4590|here]].; <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114554#c32648>
[23:07:59] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (Wikidata); V: -1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4590
[23:08:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 yes
[23:08:19] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 that was.... simple
[23:08:38] <Joan>	 I can complicate it, if you'd like.
[23:08:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 is it possible to make so that the labels dont disapear?
[23:09:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 see the OF-10, OF-9 column?
[23:09:19] <Joan>	 This is IRC.
[23:09:21] <Joan>	 I don't see any columns.
[23:09:29] <Sid-G>	 use smaller images?
[23:09:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 NATO Grade column on the template
[23:10:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G then they become difficult to see
[23:10:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 also width comes mostly from text
[23:10:10] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 greek ranks are... long
[23:10:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:10:30] <Joan>	 You want the labels to float as you scroll down?
[23:10:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 when I scroll to the right
[23:11:03] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 the h scroll is the only one
[23:11:03] <Joan>	 How would that work?
[23:11:16] <Joan>	 The labels would become detached from their columns.
[23:11:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 but a vertical scroll could also be interesting
[23:11:35] <Sid-G>	 how about a scrollbar at the top too?
[23:11:35] <Sid-G>	 Joan:that'd need js
[23:11:47] <Joan>	 Sid-G: You're a JS.
[23:11:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G that would be great
[23:12:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Joan what would be great (if possible) is if the ranks went below the labels
[23:12:13] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 so that the label columns are always visible
[23:12:15] <Joan>	 I need a nap.
[23:12:20] <JeroenDeDauw>	 Can someone who knows git a bit fix the merge conflict that's on this review branch https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,3497 ? Seems like I tried every possible command already, but nothing worked :)
[23:12:32] <RoanKattouw>	 Looking
[23:12:32] <JeroenDeDauw>	 (see the last but one comment)
[23:12:49] <Sid-G>	 Joan:not really
[23:12:56] <Joan>	 Prove it.
[23:13:28] <Sid-G>	 Joan:prove what?
[23:14:20] <RoanKattouw>	 JeroenDeDauw: Could you submit the fixes with git review -R  ?
[23:14:27] <RoanKattouw>	 ( -R stands for --no-rebase)
[23:14:52] <RoanKattouw>	 The conflict will still bite us in the end, so I'll fix it for you later
[23:15:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G if you can also somehow think of a way I would also like to be able to have uniform country flag/names
[23:15:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it is rather chaotic currently
[23:15:42] <yellowfish>	 how do I allow anyone to edit pages?
[23:15:44] <RoanKattouw>	 But I don't want to fix potential conflicts while the change is still under review, cause by the time it's ready there might be new conflicts
[23:15:58] <RoanKattouw>	 yellowfish: $wgGroupPermissions['*']['edit'] = true;
[23:16:11] <Joan>	 Isn't that the default?
[23:16:25] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:I'm actually right now doing something else which u reminded me of
[23:16:55] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:and what did u mean by " if the ranks went below the labels"? I didn't really get that
[23:17:29] <Sid-G>	 and i didn't get "uniform country flag/names" either
[23:17:53] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Adding CacheHelper code plus Language::formatDuration" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4592
[23:18:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 woha
[23:18:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 ok
[23:18:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Generic/Top
[23:18:40] <RoanKattouw>	 JeroenDeDauw: ? Did you just resubmit it as a new change? That's not very helpful
[23:18:41] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 see how its messy?
[23:18:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I would prefer flags and text to be more uniform
[23:19:02] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 the height of flags differ which is the problem
[23:19:13] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4592
[23:19:34] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Jeroen De Dauw; "(no reason)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4592
[23:19:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I think what I want is valign=top and somehow have flags have the same height
[23:19:46] <wikibugs>	 03(FIXED) MobileFrontend extension doesn't load MediaWiki:Common.css - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34325  +comment (10Jon)
[23:20:04] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:Use two rows with no border between them
[23:20:28] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:valign could work too
[23:20:41] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 The flags are template generated
[23:20:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 valign is overriden by class I believe
[23:21:11] <Joan>	 You shouldn't use valign.
[23:21:16] <Joan>	 Use CSS's vertical-align.
[23:21:38] <Sid-G>	 Joan:that would require modifying common.css right?
[23:21:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 style="vertical-align:top;" ?
[23:21:56] <Joan>	 ^
[23:22:01] <Joan>	 You can use that inline.
[23:22:13] <Joan>	 You'd only use MediaWiki:Common.css if you wanted to change the behavior site-wide.
[23:22:20] <Joan>	 I'm not really following this conversation.
[23:22:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 ah
[23:22:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Generic/Top
[23:22:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 that looks more orderly
[23:23:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I still dont like the white space below the text
[23:23:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Resubmit the entire SpecialCachedPage/formatDuration saga as one big commit" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:23:26] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 too much space between the names of 2 word countries
[23:23:33] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Catrope; "Resubmit the entire SpecialCachedPage/formatDuration saga as one big commit" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:23:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:24:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 another issue is how notes work
[23:24:18] <Sid-G>	 use two rows one with valign top other with bottom
[23:24:24] <RoanKattouw>	 Whoa
[23:24:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G I cant
[23:24:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 the template has the flag and text
[23:24:40] <RoanKattouw>	 JeroenDeDauw: Sorry about that, looks like we amended that change at the same time
[23:24:49] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:why?
[23:24:50] <JeroenDeDauw>	 RoanKattouw: worked with -R :) Could you please go back in time (2 hours will suffice) and tell me before I wasted so much effort on this? 
[23:24:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I dont want to deal with the flags if countries change them
[23:24:52] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:24:59] <Sid-G>	 why cant use use two row header?
[23:25:05] <JeroenDeDauw>	 huh
[23:25:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 because I use templates such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ALB
[23:25:47] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 anyways
[23:25:48] <RoanKattouw>	 JeroenDeDauw: I submitted a rebased version of the original seconds after you submitted a fixed unrebased version. Sorry about that, will fix
[23:26:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I can cite sources using <ref>'s is there any similar way to cite notes?
[23:26:07] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:oh
[23:26:21] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:use ref groups
[23:26:35] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 link?
[23:26:37] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:and add a <reference group=""/> at the appropriate place
[23:26:51] <Sid-G>	 dont have one handy sorry
[23:28:03] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 hmm
[23:28:24] <Sid-G>	 e.g <references group="rep. " />
[23:28:40] <Sid-G>	 and the reference is like <ref name=slr_1863 group="rep. ">Repealed by [[Statute Law Act 1863]]</ref>
[23:29:21] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 hmm
[23:29:26] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Catrope; "Resubmit the entire SpecialCachedPage/formatDuration saga as one big commit" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:30:44] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/3497
[23:32:14] <JeroenDeDauw>	 RoanKattouw: thnx - are there any docs for git newbs on how to resolve such conflicts? ie how to do the rebase thing (and what that actually does)
[23:32:26] <RoanKattouw>	 The -R flag is now in the docs for amending
[23:32:42] <RoanKattouw>	 As for conflicts, not sure where that's documented, but it's fairly straightforward
[23:32:56] <RoanKattouw>	 "git status" will tell you which files are in which state
[23:33:09] <RoanKattouw>	 Conflicts are marked with <<< , === and >>> just like in SVN
[23:33:24] <RoanKattouw>	 You edit the conflicted files to fix the conflicts, then you run "git add conflicted-file.php"
[23:33:55] <RoanKattouw>	 When you've fixed all conflicts, you run "git rebase --continue" to continue the rebase. The conflict message will tell you this.
[23:34:41] <gColossus>	 inside LocalSettings.php, is it possible to have user-level access control? or is it only possible to do group-based?
[23:34:43] <RoanKattouw>	 If you're getting conflicts for something that's not a rebase (but a merge or a cherry-pick or a revert), you'll need to run "git commit" instead, but you probably don't need to worry about that for now. And this is in the "ZOMG there were conflicts" message too
[23:34:49] <RoanKattouw>	 gColossus: Only group-based
[23:34:51] <JeroenDeDauw>	 RoanKattouw: I did all of that except "git rebase --continue", which I guess is not optional
[23:34:58] <RoanKattouw>	 No, that is not optional
[23:35:08] <gColossus>	 RoanKattouw: thx for the confirmation :)
[23:35:11] <RoanKattouw>	 You probably got a confusing error message about a rebase inside a rebase
[23:35:44] * JeroenDeDauw  waits for someone to compare git to inception

[23:36:06] <RoanKattouw>	 JeroenDeDauw: As for what rebase does, it has various modes that rewrite history in various ways, but the most basic mode is to rebase X on top of Y, which means "rewrite history to make it look like X was branched off at Y instead of where it was really branched off"
[23:36:54] <RoanKattouw>	 So in your case what git-review was trying to do was rebasing your change on top of master, which means rewrite history to make it look like you branched it off master today instead of three weeks ago
[23:37:35] <JeroenDeDauw>	 Right
[23:37:41] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G is this wrong?
[23:37:42] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 <ref name="{{{sup}}}" group="rank notes">{{{sup}}}</ref>
[23:37:42] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) Replace MD5 password hashing with WHIRLPOOL - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28419  +comment (10Tyler Romeo)
[23:38:03] <JeroenDeDauw>	 RoanKattouw: great, thanks for the help and explaining me how to fix this next time I run into it :)
[23:38:20] <RoanKattouw>	 This is how conflicts are dealt with in the Gerrit world: you rebase the change, and then it has a very recent base so it now merges cleanly. Of course this pushes the conflict resolution to the rebaser instead (which is sort of the point)
[23:38:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 used in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Gen
[23:38:54] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:what u wrote doesn't seem wrong
[23:38:59] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:is it not working?
[23:39:10] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 nop
[23:39:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 its not rendering the {{{sup}}}
[23:39:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Generic/Army
[23:39:41] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:do params work inside of ref tags?
[23:39:50] * AaronSchulz  pesters RoanKattouw about https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,4481 too

[23:39:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 params are passed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Generic/Army/OF-10
[23:40:00] * AaronSchulz  apparently must enjoy pestering roan

[23:40:24] * ToAruShiroiNeko  suspects AaronSchulz is a pokemon whom only knows pester attack

[23:40:51] * Sid-G  sighs

[23:41:13] <RoanKattouw>	 AaronSchulz: Meh, you amended and rebased at the same time
[23:41:28] * RoanKattouw  does local voodoo to get a clean diff

[23:43:42] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G do you see the problem?
[23:44:00] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:looking
[23:44:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 k
[23:44:12] <saper>	 how can I amend and rebase at the same time? amend is (to me) another commit that forks at the original parent. rebase applies my patches to a completely new parent commit?
[23:45:39] <codurr>	 03bsitu * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/114815> 10/trunk/extensions/PageTriage/ (PageTriage.php api/ApiPageTriageAction.php): remove redundant permission checking since UserCan() handles these and add rate Limiting to prevent flooding
[23:46:12] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:I've never tried passing parameters to a ref tag before
[23:46:16] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:have u?
[23:46:44] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Catrope; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4481
[23:47:04] <DanielFriesen>	 saper: filter-branch?
[23:47:15] <RoanKattouw>	 AaronSchulz: Looks good to me, marked +1 because Tim is on the review list and it seems rude to approve without his input
[23:47:25] <RoanKattouw>	 Would've +2ed otherwise
[23:47:29] <AaronSchulz>	 how wude
[23:49:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G sure
[23:49:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 today
[23:49:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 :p
[23:50:05] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:then maybe they just dont work?
[23:50:45] <Sid-G>	 try passing the entire name=blah thing as a param instead of name={{{sup}}}
[23:50:55] <Sid-G>	 maybe that'd work
[23:51:17] <wikibugs>	 03(mod) UI polish for full-screen search on mobile site - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34233  (10Jon)
[23:51:24] <saper>	 DanielFriesen: no,  guess what happens here is that gerrit accepts the push into the changeset (as patchset n+1) because of Change-ID and completely new parent id is not a problem at all
[23:52:09] * DanielFriesen  hates Change-ID

[23:52:27] <RoanKattouw>	 DanielFriesen: I think Change-Id is a clever hack but Gareth shouldn't copy it :)
[23:52:43] <DanielFriesen>	 ;) Exactly on the latter part
[23:52:47] <RoanKattouw>	 DanielFriesen: Thanks for getting started on that BTW, I was gonna do it in a few weeks if no one else did
[23:52:55] <DanielFriesen>	 I'm not so sure about clever though...
[23:53:09] <Sid-G>	 what's Gareth?
[23:53:09] <saper>	 it seems to me that email-patch-based workflow for revieweing stuff going into git is the best :(
[23:53:14] * Sid-G  is curious

[23:53:27] <RoanKattouw>	 Sid-G: See Daniel's most recent wikitech-l thread
[23:53:46] <DanielFriesen>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Dantman/CodeReviewSystem
[23:53:47] <DanielFriesen>	 https://github.com/dantman/gareth
[23:53:49] <Sid-G>	 ok
[23:53:59] * RoanKattouw  reads that wiki page again

[23:54:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G nop
[23:54:32] <DanielFriesen>	 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/60545
[23:54:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it treats the characters {{{sup}}} as name
[23:54:41] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it doesnt retrieve the passed value
[23:54:45] <yellowfish>	 wheredo  I upload files?
[23:55:09] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 it does not show it as output either
[23:55:17] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:what did u change?
[23:55:17] <DanielFriesen>	 There are a number of factors that'll help in eliminating the need for change-ids.
[23:55:26] <RoanKattouw>	 DanielFriesen: So basically what you're saying in bullet point 6 is that you point Gareth to your github branch, it fetches stuff from there, displays the new commits, and lets you do some sort of web-based interactive rebase to mold them into something to submit for review?
[23:55:27] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:link the diff
[23:55:49] <DanielFriesen>	 RoanKattouw: Sort of yes, sort of no on the last...
[23:56:01] <RoanKattouw>	 DanielFriesen: That sounds like a great secondary feature to me, but being able to push to a branch within the system itself and having that Just Work seems like it should be the primary model to me
[23:56:06] <DanielFriesen>	 Lemme rattle off a few points...
[23:56:09] <RoanKattouw>	 Sure
[23:56:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO/Gen&action=history
[23:56:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 I tried quite a lot of things
[23:56:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 sup holds text
[23:57:05] <DanielFriesen>	 - Since we're working with branch heads rather than single changesets Change-ID already has almost no use
[23:57:11] <RoanKattouw>	 Natuarlly
[23:57:22] <RoanKattouw>	 Death to Change-IDs, for suree
[23:58:13] <DanielFriesen>	 - In the worst case scenario, yes; You will have the ability to manually craft collections of commits for review using the web interface. So if things don't go your way there will always be a way to easily make Gareth do what you want.
[23:58:36] <RoanKattouw>	 But what is the preferred workflow?
[23:59:01] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 Sid-G is this a bug
[23:59:11] <DanielFriesen>	 - One goal is to make things flexible from the web side. I have notes there on forking, splitting, combining, etc.. but the general idea is that a review set is not locked in, if something is wrong it can be tweaked.
[23:59:22] <RoanKattouw>	 OK
[23:59:25] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:lemme try first
[23:59:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 templates can be put in refs
[23:59:35] <ToAruShiroiNeko>	 but refs cant be put in templates?
[23:59:38] <Sid-G>	 ToAruShiroiNeko:this seems more like a featuer request if anything
[23:59:42] <DanielFriesen>	 - And lastly. The plan is to add in automated things. Based on conventions and preferences.
[23:59:49] <RoanKattouw>	 Minor point there: I like the foo, foo/1, foo/2 naming scheme, but I think it would be clearer if the first iteration is called foo/0 instead