[00:00:30] New review: Mglaser; "This breaks existing settings, as mentioned before. In addition to Daniels suggesten, one possible a..." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11137 [00:03:37] 03(mod) mediaWiki.Api token handling - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35727 -patch-need-review +patch-reviewed; +comment (10Brad Jorsch) [00:05:47] 03(mod) mediaWiki.Api token handling - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35727 +comment (10Sumana Harihareswara) [00:07:58] 03(NEW) Problems with Swype when searching on Android wikipedia app - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37642 normal; Wikipedia App: Generic; (yuvipanda) [00:12:13] New patchset: Reedy; "It's useful to be able to drag in a list of patches to a checkout before we build the tarball and sign it etc" [mediawiki/tools/release] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11720 [00:14:47] New review: Reedy; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/tools/release] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11720 [00:14:49] Change merged: Reedy; [mediawiki/tools/release] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11720 [00:17:33] New review: Reedy; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/tools/release] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11665 [00:17:36] Change merged: Reedy; [mediawiki/tools/release] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11665 [00:19:19] 03(ASSIGNED) Article Feedback 5 - Abuse filter fixes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37615 +comment (10Reha Sterbin) [00:19:37] AaronSchulz: is php different in some way? I always see suggestion saying we should store pieces then join them - gerrit 8334 [00:22:19] liangent: usually you use an array and join [00:22:32] the linkarray thing needs to perform well though [00:23:01] liangent: hmm, I wonder if it actually was faster [00:23:21] I was assuming it was written that way to begin with for a performance reason [00:25:34] AaronSchulz: generally this is used to avoid creating lots of string objects but strings are not objects in php.. [00:26:22] though php arrays tend to consume memory quickly [00:35:14] 03(mod) Vector 'user' icon is low-resolution - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35341 +comment (10Sumana Harihareswara) [00:39:58] Salut / Hi [00:42:45] AaronSchulz: so any benchmark between str-cat and array-join [00:44:42] liangent: I'd ask Tim, since I'm sure he dealt with this several times before [01:30:12] New review: Aaron Pramana; "Great, I noticed one last thing: an error message upon failure would be nice to have as well (eg. "A..." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6143 [02:07:25] 03(NEW) Session may not be started for non-logged-in API edits, causing captcha to fail - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37643 normal; MediaWiki extensions: ConfirmEdit (CAPTCHA extension); (b-jorsch) [02:14:41] 03(mod) mediaWiki.Api token handling - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35727 +comment (10Krinkle) [02:15:18] 03(mod) mw.Api ajax() should put token parameter last in the query - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35727 summary (10Krinkle) [02:15:27] 03(mod) mw.Api ajax() should put token parameter last in the query - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35727 (10Krinkle) [02:28:10] New patchset: Anomie; "(bug 37643) Ensure a session is created when necessary for Captcha" [mediawiki/extensions/ConfirmEdit] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11722 [02:28:47] 03(mod) Session may not be started for non-logged-in API edits, causing captcha to fail - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37643 +comment (10Brad Jorsch) [02:32:19] 03(NEW) Enable subpages on main namespace on be.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37644 normal; Wikimedia: Site configuration; (dereckson) [02:35:17] 03(mod) Enable subpages on main and project namespaces on be.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37644 summary (10Dereckson) [02:35:51] 03(ASSIGNED) Enable subpages on main and project namespaces on be.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37644 +comment (10Dereckson) [02:41:55] 03(mod) Enable subpages on main and project namespaces on be.wikimedia.org - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37644 +comment (10Dereckson) [02:44:55] can someone please explain to me about the lookahead search function, in relation to the namespaces searched [02:45:59] 03(FIXED) API edit support for reCAPTCHA - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/31608 +comment (10Brad Jorsch) [02:55:37] sDrewth: You mean the suggestions dropdown menu? [02:56:10] more when you get the typeahead results [02:56:40] the ajax search I am presuming [02:57:05] if that is what you mean dropdown, then yes [02:59:38] I believe it indexes all titles. [03:00:02] so just main ns? or will it utilise defaultsearch? [03:00:27] All titles. [03:00:40] "Wikipedia" will show you main NS, I guess. [03:00:52] But "Wikipedia:" is going to show you pages with that prefix. [03:01:00] Which happens to be pages in that particular namespace. [03:01:04] Because namespaces are prefix-based. [03:01:20] You're asking about the default results, I guess? [03:01:29] at enWS, I am getting different responses, logged in I am getting author: ns (monobok), from non-logged in (vector) I am only getting main ns [03:01:34] I assume it's based on $wgContentNamespaces, but it might be based on something else. [03:01:55] but I cannot see how and where that would be set [03:02:08] yet author: ns is default anyway [03:02:20] What are the different responses? [03:02:51] monobook logged in will give me ... Author:E. E. Cu... [03:03:16] vector not logged in just takes the text, as no pages at E. E.... [03:03:31] so one gets a hit, and the other does not [03:03:38] Your input is what? "E."? [03:03:55] I get "Erie" with "E" or "E." as input, it looks like. [03:04:01] Erie Railroad osmething. [03:04:01] yep e. e. [03:04:03] something [03:04:12] Oh, two of them? [03:04:34] Screenshots would be good here. [03:04:40] That'll show the input and the results. [03:04:42] And the difference. [03:04:46] for me it doesn't matter, I get author ns [03:04:52] I'm not sure of the exact algorithm. It's Lucene, I think? [03:05:20] rainmain-sr (sp?) used to be the one to ask. Not sure who's in charge of it now. [03:05:29] sDrewth: Screenshot. :-) [03:05:34] That sounds weird. [03:05:53] Hmmm. [03:06:57] sDrewth: You changed your user prefs for search? [03:07:16] What do you have under "Advanced options" under the "Search options" tab? [03:07:22] I only have (Main) and Index. [03:07:27] I wonder if I did that or it's the default... [03:07:31] I don't have Author. [03:07:45] out default includes Author: [03:07:47] our [03:08:01] I checked http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php [03:08:19] and it comes through in a "search" button search [03:09:58] Yeah, the default is (Main), Index, and Author. [03:10:06] Weird. Wonder why my prefs are different. [03:10:55] New patchset: Krinkle; "Use console.error instead of console.log for exception logging" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10461 [03:10:59] New review: Anomie; "Is there a reason not to squash this and I8938ea2d into Id7ec4e69?" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8560 [03:11:01] New review: Anomie; "Is there a reason not to squash this and I2962054a into Id7ec4e69?" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8553 [03:12:59] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10461 [03:20:41] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10461 [03:25:04] brooke ... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ajax_search,_firefox,_logged_in,_monobook_modified_options.jpg [03:25:11] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ajax_search,_chrome,_not_logged-in_vector,_default_options.jpg [03:25:53] bugger, daughter has tripped and knocked her head, off to play sympathetic dad [03:30:33] New review: Santhosh; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11138 [03:30:35] Change merged: Santhosh; [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11138 [03:39:33] New review: Krinkle; "@John: If it were HTML, then the only correct version would be `
    `. And for non-pure html cr..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10665 [03:39:56] girl fixed [03:42:21] New patchset: Krinkle; "(bug 35082) addPortletLink incorrectly adds to mutiple
      tags" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10665 [03:42:39] New review: Krinkle; "Rebased." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10665 [03:44:27] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10665 [03:48:44] New review: Krinkle; "@Daniel Werner: I would never introduce such code, that was already there (the line wasn't even move..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10662 [03:57:36] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/WikiEditor] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9053 [03:59:13] New patchset: Krinkle; "(bug 24172) Adding dialog for file." [mediawiki/extensions/WikiEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9053 [03:59:29] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/WikiEditor] (master); V: 0 C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9053 [04:01:36] paulproteus: paulprot1us - ping. [04:02:45] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9967 [04:03:42] New patchset: Krinkle; "Revert "Deprecate no longer used Skin::getCommonStylePath."" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11724 [04:05:43] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11724 [04:05:49] hi _Vi [04:06:04] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11724 [04:06:07] Change merged: Krinkle; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11724 [04:14:59] New review: Krinkle; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8042 [04:20:48] New review: Aaron Schulz; "I don't understand the commit message." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9724 [04:25:52] New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10743 [04:25:55] Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10743 [04:31:27] New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11641 [04:36:46] New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10443 [04:58:53] New review: Liangent; "I understood the message but not sure whether there'll be any conflict between this and Change-Id: I..." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9724 [05:16:55] New review: Santhosh; "See in line comments." [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master); V: 0 C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11671 [07:01:00] 03(FIXED) add parent_id to export/dump - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33222 +comment (10Umherirrender) [07:12:36] New patchset: Umherirrender; "ensure unique revision id in backupTextPassTest" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11641 [07:14:49] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11641 [07:28:22] 03(mod) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 +comment (10Zachary Harden) [07:31:13] Brooke: I have now found out that the filter is due to the preference "Enable enhanced search suggestions (Vector skin only)" it filters out other namespace!!! [07:35:57] 03(mod) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 +comment (10Zachary Harden) [07:36:54] 03(ASSIGNED) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 normal->trivial; -shellpolicy +shell; +comment (10Dereckson) [07:47:46] New patchset: Umherirrender; "(bug 37301) add sizediff to list=usercontribs" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10443 [07:49:47] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10443 [07:50:46] New review: Umherirrender; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10443 [07:50:59] 03(UNCONFIRMED) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 +comment (10Dereckson) [07:51:02] New review: Umherirrender; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10443 [07:53:17] New review: Nikerabbit; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (translatesvg); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9794 [07:59:06] New patchset: saper; "(bug28162) Installer ignores initial DBport" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8906 [08:00:11] New patchset: saper; "(bug 28162) Installer ignores initial DBport" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8906 [08:02:15] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8906 [08:02:39] New review: saper; "$ php maintenance/eval.php " [mediawiki/core] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/8906 [08:17:19] New patchset: Umherirrender; "use User::getDefaultOption instead of $wgDefaultUserOptions" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9724 [08:17:44] 03(NEW) Message import does not scale to 200k+ messages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37645 normal; MediaWiki extensions: Translate; (niklas.laxstrom) [08:18:13] New review: saper; "Reply to the comment" [mediawiki/extensions/CheckUser] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11562 [08:19:26] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9724 [08:19:32] 03(NEW) DatabaseMessageIndex (the default) fails with 200k+ messages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37646 normal; MediaWiki extensions: Translate; (niklas.laxstrom) [08:19:43] New review: Umherirrender; "I have update the commit message." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9724 [08:24:13] 03(NEW) MessageIndexRebuild still failing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37647 critical; MediaWiki extensions: Translate; (niklas.laxstrom) [08:25:13] New patchset: saper; "Bug 11748: Handle optionally-closed HTML tags" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/5174 [08:25:29] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/5174 [08:28:44] New patchset: Tpt; "Using of Title functions instead of regex in order to control page namespaces." [mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11725 [08:29:25] New patchset: saper; "Bug 11748: Handle optionally-closed HTML tags" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/5174 [08:31:25] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/5174 [09:26:56] 03(mod) DatabaseMessageIndex (the default) fails with 200k+ messages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37646 +comment (10Siebrand) [09:29:01] 03(NEW) Unable to set workflow states - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37648 critical; MediaWiki extensions: Translate; (niklas.laxstrom) [09:29:21] 03(mod) Unable to set workflow states - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37648 (10Niklas Laxström) [09:30:23] 03(NEW) Do not display "Export in native format" option in Special:Translate for groups which do not support it - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37649 minor; MediaWiki extensions: Translate; (niklas.laxstrom) [09:39:45] New patchset: Tpt; "(bug 37419) Creation of json config file proofreadpage_data_config that replace proofreadpage_index_attributes and proofreadpage_js_attributes. Rewritting of the index form generator." [mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10741 [09:47:24] Hi, in my mediawiki I edit /path/to/page and I'm putting a link to [[other_page|Other page]], but it doesn't use relative links so it targets /other_page instead of /path/to/other_page, how can I fix that? [09:48:02] New review: GWicke; "Could you describe your changes in patch sets 3-6? The rebased patch makes that hard to figure out w..." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/5174 [10:18:12] is there any page that talks about backups of mw? [10:18:23] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki [10:18:24] NVM [10:33:19] alkisg: [[/other page|Other page]] [10:44:07] liangent: I don't want to point to the root URL, I want to point to a relative URL [10:44:21] So I think the correct would be: [[other page|Other page]] [10:44:42] liangent: but that points to /other_page instead, i.e. it does point to the root URL, while I don't want it to [10:44:52] Do I need to enable something in the configuration about subpages, relative URLs etc? [10:45:20] (I did try what you proposed, but it doesn't work) [10:46:00] * alkisg downloads the mediawiki source code... :-/ [10:46:57] (I don't have access to the server configuration) [10:49:48] $wgNamespacesWithSubpages = array( [10:49:48] NS_TALK => true, [10:50:10] ==> So if the server doesn't have the main pages listed there, then relative links don't work? [10:53:11] Would $wgNamespacesWithSubpages[NS_MAIN] = true; solve my problem? [10:55:23] 03(mod) Interproject links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/708 +comment (10au) [10:55:56] New review: Eranroz; "It would be better to amend the related changes (this change the previous change, and the following ..." [mediawiki/extensions/TimedMediaHandler] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11591 [10:56:30] New patchset: Logicwiki; "* Tamil Inscript fixes + tests" [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11671 [10:59:46] Here's a demo page that reproduces my problem: http://demo.opensourcecms.com/mediawiki/index.php/Test/relative/links [11:00:01] It should link to http://demo.opensourcecms.com/mediawiki/index.php/Test/relative/target, but it links to http://demo.opensourcecms.com/mediawiki/index.php/target instead [11:01:51] alkisg: [[.../other page|Other page]] [11:02:01] Sorry: [[../other page|Other page]] [11:02:16] Dantman: I tried with ./other page, because it's in the current directory, not the parent one. Didn't work either. [11:02:32] alkisg: Our patterns are a little messed up [11:02:41] Ah, let me try then.. [11:02:57] [[../]] links to the parent, [[../Foo]] links to a sibling, and [[/Foo]] links to a child [11:03:52] So for [[Foo/Bar]] the following is true [[../]] == [[Foo]], [[../Baz]] == [[Foo/Baz]], [[/Baz]] == [[Foo/Bar/Baz]] [11:04:12] Dantman: can't make it work, please see/edit this: http://demo.opensourcecms.com/mediawiki/index.php/Test/relative/links [11:04:16] Also note that you can put a / at the end to hide the first portion [11:04:37] I also created the target page to make sure it exists [11:05:08] Did you make that configuration change to enable subpages? [11:05:45] Doesn't look like it [11:06:20] Dantman: no, as I said I don't have access to the server configuration, that's what I'm looking for, what to tell the sysadmin to enabel [11:06:22] *enable [11:06:29] Oh... [11:06:56] Yeah, that's the config to enable it... just don't use the array() format or you'll disable it in namespaces it's enabled by default [11:07:32] New review: Logicwiki; "Vowel signs addressed in PS2 to be in line with standard. ZWNJ will be resolved later. See inline co..." [mediawiki/extensions/Narayam] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11671 [11:07:36] Thank you Dantman :) [11:12:20] * alkisg notes that it's weird though to allow creating subpages in the default installation, but not relative links [11:12:36] I would expect the opposite... [11:18:24] There's no such thing as a subpage in MediaWiki [11:18:50] Nothing is actually a subpage they're all just links with / delimiters in the title. [11:19:15] New review: Bergi; "Are there other modules that will break when getting redirect pages?" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10455 [11:19:25] The config setting just enables things like relative links and the subpage subtitle which make it look like having subpages. [11:19:57] It's disabled by default in the namespace because you may want to have / in the actual titles of your articles and not intend it to be used as a subpage delimiter. [11:20:40] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/+/- [11:26:56] Ah, got it, thanks again :) [11:50:27] New review: John Erling Blad; "Discuss it on wikitech and then make a patch that also fixes old calls in the core?" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11356 [12:09:56] New patchset: Tpt; "(bug 37419) Creation of json config file proofreadpage_data_config that replace proofreadpage_index_attributes and proofreadpage_js_attributes. Rewritting of the index form generator." [mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10741 [12:45:58] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "fix problem with mood not registering for form 6 votes" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11566 [12:47:14] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "bug 36773 - My Contributions" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11283 [12:55:31] New patchset: Amire80; "Adding JavaScript CLDR plural parser." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11726 [12:57:06] 03(mod) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 +comment (10Zachary Harden) [12:57:39] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11726 [13:13:00] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "Introduce a new hook that allows extensions to add to My Contributions" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11282 [13:13:18] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11282 [13:15:06] New review: Umherirrender; "I have see this only at this module, but it is possible, that other modules have also problems, but ..." [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10455 [13:21:33] 03(mod) Thumbnail generation broken on 1.19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37632 +comment (10Roger Appleby) [13:23:53] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "Introduce a new hook that allows extensions to add to My Contributions" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11282 [13:25:55] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11282 [13:42:38] New patchset: Reedy; "Can't use return value of void functions" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11727 [13:44:42] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11727 [13:45:12] *sigh* that dumb machine froze part way through an ubuntu update and now wony boot up [14:08:04] New review: Reedy; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/CategoryTree] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9340 [14:08:07] Change merged: Reedy; [mediawiki/extensions/CategoryTree] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/9340 [14:15:24] 03(NEW) INCONSISTENT Implementation of Confirmation Screen displayed after posting feedback through form at bottom of page and Widget - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37651 major; MediaWiki extensions: ArticleFeedbackv5; (mohinder.khosla) [14:18:08] 03(NEW) Fixes for Extension:Lockdown dependency changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37652 normal; MediaWiki extensions: NSFileRepo; (jack.pond) [14:28:34] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "Bug 37630 - Feedback Form simplification" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11728 [14:30:35] 03(NEW) Excessive and repeated inputs rejected but can be input by logging out/in or changing browsers - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37653 normal; MediaWiki extensions: ArticleFeedbackv5; (mohinder.khosla) [14:33:34] Reedy: would you happen to know who is the (original) author of bugzilla_report.php (this script: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/68387) and under what license it is released? the file has no license info but it's in the WMF SVN... [14:34:25] I think that's the script which sends bugzilla mails [14:34:58] /whoisu/whoisu/whois pgehres [14:36:49] Platonides: yeah, it was a stand-alone script until WMF updated Bugzilla from 3.6.2 to 4.0; looking at http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/tools/bugzilla/bugzilla-4.0/extensions/WeeklyReport/ , it appears that its current incarnation is a Bugzilla extension (and thus written in perl, eww) [14:37:39] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "Bug 37630 - Feedback Form simplification" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11728 [14:38:19] ashley, I think you could dive into the mailing list to see who was the original author [14:39:22] Platonides: alright, thanks, will do =) [14:39:59] 03(mod) Fixes for Extension:Lockdown dependency changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37652 +comment (10Jack D. Pond) [14:41:04] 03(ASSIGNED) Fixes for Extension:Lockdown dependency changes - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37652 (10Jack D. Pond) [14:45:57] ashley: Fairly sure Tomasz wrote it [14:48:07] Reedy: thanks! I'll email him or poke him on IRC the next time I see him around and ask about the license [14:48:22] 03(mod) Feedback Form simplification - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37630 +comment (10Matthias Mullie) [14:48:28] I'd suspect it'd default to being GPLv2 [14:49:36] that's what I was assuming and hoping for, but it never hurts to double-check :) [14:49:50] mmm [14:50:05] it'll certainly be some "free" license [14:55:21] New review: Eranroz; "It didn't work for me until I change some arguments to be passed by reference (specified in inline c..." [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11283 [14:57:27] New review: Eranroz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11283 [15:00:30] 03(NEW) Default Text saved from the feedback form after clicking 'No' to Did you find what you were looking for? - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37654 normal; MediaWiki extensions: ArticleFeedbackv5; (mohinder.khosla) [15:04:31] New review: Eranroz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/CheckUser] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11294 [15:11:18] New patchset: Subramanya Sastry; "First pass redoing serialization code to handle newline requirements from Parsoid HTML output as well as VE HTML output. There are still some newline related failures from parser tests that needs fixing, but this is getting close. So committing for now " [mediawiki/extensions/VisualEditor] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11729 [15:11:21] Change abandoned: Reedy; "(no reason)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/4530 [15:11:40] Quick question: This is a bug, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bush%E2%80%93Blair_2003_Iraq_memo&diff=471870648 [15:11:50] The " on the image caption [15:16:07] A7, what0s wrong on the image caption? :s [15:16:14] http://i.imgur.com/rZSt3.png [15:16:53] See how the blue " is overlapping with the image caption? [15:17:17] no [15:17:30] not even resizing the window [15:17:30] A7, looks like a bug to me [15:17:35] can you make a screenshot? [15:17:44] I did make a screenshot [15:17:45] http://i.imgur.com/rZSt3.png [15:18:50] browser? [15:19:00] for "preferences | search" where is the component "Enable enhanced search suggestions (Vector skin only)" set? InitialiseSettings.php? [15:19:30] Platonides: Chrome 19 [15:19:57] I think I'll file a bug report then [15:20:53] Dunno why no one else sees it though. I asked wikipedia-en too [15:21:19] I was looking in firefox [15:21:26] Do you see it in Chrome? [15:21:30] yes [15:22:15] but not in midori (which is also based on WebKit) [15:22:45] it may be a bug in chrome [15:23:40] 03(NEW) gitweb: grep needle is not encoded correctly when echoed back - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37655 normal; Wikimedia: Git/Gerrit; (liangent) [15:24:04] I'm putting it under unknown for now [15:25:11] 03(NEW) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 normal; MediaWiki: General/Unknown; (aditya) [15:28:53] 03(mod) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 +comment (10Liangent) [15:35:31] Hello [15:35:58] I'm trying to import a Wikibooks dump via importDump.php, [[mw:Manual:Importing_XML_dumps#Using_importDump.php.2C_if_you_have_shell_access]] [15:36:05] But I get error messages like [15:36:40] Page "Wikibooks:foobar is not imported because its name is reserved for external link (interwiki)." [15:37:05] How can I fix them? I can't find info in the manual page regarding that [15:43:36] 03(mod) allow uploading to Commons from other wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37636 +comment (10Bryan Tong Minh) [15:46:46] hjk: try this sql?: delete from interwiki where iw_prefix='wikibooks' [15:47:19] hjk: What is the exact error message? [15:48:45] It's Italian: <> [15:49:36] 03(mod) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 +comment (10Krenair) [15:49:44] tale: it's like that, character by character [15:50:22] mmm actually it IS that, not "like" that [15:52:38] 03(mod) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 +comment (10Liangent) [15:53:29] for "preferences | search" where is the component "Enable enhanced search suggestions (Vector skin only)" set? InitialiseSettings.php? [15:54:08] hjk: Is this related? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps#InterWiki_Language_Issues_with_Importing_Dumps [15:57:01] 03(mod) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 +upstream; +comment (10Krenair) [15:57:28] 03(mod) Cquote quotation mark overlaps with image caption in Chrome 19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37656 -upstream (10Krenair) [15:57:32] woops, wasn't supposed to mark it as upstream yet :/ [15:58:21] New review: Mormegil; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10544 [15:58:24] Krenair: do you think it's a chrome's regression between 18 and 19? [15:58:39] I didn't test Chrome 18 [15:58:51] Just Chrome 19 (where the bug occurred) and Firefox 13 (where it didn't) [15:59:14] I'm sooo confused re: git/gerrit. I'm ready to commit changes to extension. Which project should I use? (or am I totally confused)? [15:59:30] Extension:NSFileRepo [16:00:00] jdpond: mediawiki/extension/NSFileRepo.git if it's there [16:00:06] jdpond, you've made the changes to your copy of the extension git repo, right? [16:01:31] Yes I've made changes locally (branch NSFileREPOBug37652) and tested. [16:02:33] Chad made converted the extension from SVN to GIT for me, but I don't see a project mediawiki/extension/NSFileRepo out there (and not sure it gets enough changes to need one). [16:03:08] jdpond, it's there [16:03:19] just add the s to extensions [16:04:16] argh. Trying to do this with a windows client - ugly, ugly, ugly. [16:06:45] @configure respond_message=true [16:06:45] This value can't be stored [16:06:56] @configure respond-message=true [16:06:57] Value true was stored into respond-message to config [16:08:36] jdpond, what specific problem are you stuck on at the moment? [16:09:28] Now I'm lost again Krenair - let me go back and review my steps thought it was a project issue - may not be. [16:09:56] There's a real problem with git-review I need to fix on this machine. [16:10:16] What is the problem? [16:12:16] First of all, it's trying to commit to core.git - which I DON't want. Secondly, it can't find/stick with the remote specified, and thirdly, when I do finally get those two fixed, I get an access problem (ssh). It's a real mess. [16:13:08] umm... [16:13:17] jdpond, on which repo? [16:13:20] Yeah. I think you're doing something really wrong there [16:13:26] maybe you're better starting from scratch? [16:14:17] jdpond, please ensure that you have extensions and core stored separately, and that their remotes are correct. [16:14:22] No kidding - I think I'm going to go work out, then start over with a clean mind. Punching laptops can get expensive. [16:14:27] You can check remotes with git remote -v [16:14:41] As for the SSH problem, please show me what the error is [16:15:03] oops. bad timing from me. i'll be back after dinner [16:26:51] 03(mod) Edit toolbar & Edit tools (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/17653 (10Danny B.) [16:26:51] 03(NEW) Edit tools should be loaded only with old editor - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37657 normal; MediaWiki: Page editing; (danny.b) [16:27:10] 03(mod) Preference to toggle edit tools - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/11130 +comment (10Danny B.) [16:32:50] tale: no [16:33:19] New patchset: Jpond; "Bug 37652 -Fixes for Extension:Lockdown dependency changes" [mediawiki/extensions/NSFileRepo] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11730 [16:33:20] liangent: I was unable to access the tables in SQLite so I'm restarting the virtual machine from scratch and see what happens [16:35:45] Krenair: , Platonides, did that work? Did I get it right? https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11730 [16:53:56] 03(mod) gitweb: grep needle is not encoded correctly when echoed back - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37655 +comment (10Chad H.) [17:00:22] jdpond, checking.. [17:00:44] jdpond, yep! looks good [17:02:43] jdpond, I think you should be able to merge that into the proper repo now.. [17:03:11] Krenair: no idea how to do that though. Tips? [17:04:07] jdpond, I'm actually not sure you can. Pretty sure you should be listed here: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/groups/uuid-ac77bcd56a0ac4422b0a655f0bd8ccc31d736f7f,members [17:06:01] Reedy, maybe you can change that? [17:06:02] wm-bot: :o [17:06:02] Hi petan, this is some error, I am a stupid bot and I am not intelligent enough to hold a conversation with you :-) [17:06:12] there is an error* [17:06:35] is that "this is error" wrong english? [17:06:52] * varnent figures that's what the AI machines will say right before they take over - checks for nearby baseball bat [17:07:23] :) [17:07:36] Yes. "this is some error" is also wrong. [17:07:57] petan: random question - aside from them being free - are you aware of any advantages to staying on Freenode? they're rejecting wikis now so I'm looking for a new IRC home for some projects [17:08:01] hmm, ok I hope that's gonna be last restart of bot [17:08:05] today [17:08:26] varnent: I don't like freenode much, I actually own a network :D [17:08:36] but it's pretty empty right now [17:08:43] varnent: There's a patentable idea, pocket EMP generator - equivalent of pepper spray for protection against the carbon-challenged crowd? [17:08:46] everyone left, so that's probably not a good choice either [17:08:58] varnent: I would be happy if wikimedia started own network [17:09:12] maintaining network is very easy [17:09:18] and fun [17:09:19] Wikimedia already has an IRC server [17:09:24] that's for something else [17:09:29] petan: Freenode is on my shit list right now - so I'm gonna chat with folks at Wikimania about that or a similar undertaking [17:09:31] I meant a public like mozilla [17:09:47] varnent: that would be great, I won't be there [17:09:52] but I support that idea [17:09:59] we'll channel you in via ISP [17:10:04] *ESP [17:10:09] lol - or your ISP..you know..depending [17:10:17] that sounds like the weapon from Matrix movie [17:10:31] heh [17:10:59] as long as Freenode remains friendly to WMF - which I doubt they'll ever change - I'm not sure there's much incentive for WMF to go it alone [17:11:26] I think there are some reasons to move to own network [17:11:30] but I'm hoping there's a viable existing Freenode alternative some folks can get behind supporting [17:11:45] yes there are many networks hehe [17:11:48] thousands [17:12:01] basically all huge networks suck a bit [17:12:14] because they are bit, they have a lot of problems [17:12:18] * big [17:12:24] exactly - existing and being a viable alternative are not always one in the same [17:12:26] like spammers etc [17:12:51] I go fix wm-bot right now [17:13:03] have fun [17:13:17] there is an error or there is some error [17:13:47] I like later more [17:13:49] :) [17:14:05] it sounds like bot is confused or something [17:19:57] varnent: pointing out reasons why you think freenode suck would probably help to convince people to switch to something better [17:20:27] petan: fair point [17:20:56] petan: I need to gauge the general devo/ops interest I think - if there's little interest - I'd rather push other things :) [17:21:22] petan: but having WikiQueer rejected from Freenode is a motivator - no doubt [17:21:36] but I really think that having own network like mozilla which would be primary dedicated for wiki projects of all sorts would be a good idea [17:22:01] varnent: it was rejected? why? [17:22:06] petan: a wiki-friendly IRC network would be valuable [17:22:24] petan: I'm asking for a more in-depth answer - but the initial reason was that we're not software-y enough [17:22:48] wikipedia isn't software heh [17:24:07] I don't like how freenode sw breaks standards of stuff, like these blah/meh cloaks that looks like everything but a proper hostname, or their custom hacks to ircd which cause lot of problems [17:24:14] petan: I haven't heard back yet - but my hunch is that they're answer will be that WMF was both "Grandfathered" in and that MediaWiki is WMF's saving grace [17:24:28] *their [17:25:14] petan: WQ's ops team response is that WQ is doing MW development and API development with Sunlight Foundation and others..but I seriously doubt they'll go back on their decision - it took them 6 months to decide on our app :/ [17:25:57] well, I haven't got any response regarding #huggle channel and it's more than 1 year old [17:26:02] :) [17:26:06] 6 months is quick [17:26:29] petan: we had to push to get any response..and I was pissed that during that time we were told our app would be fine - so we started setting things up which their guidance [17:27:38] petan: which is annoying as we had included some $$ donations to them in a couple grants [17:27:46] lol - but screw em now [17:30:16] petan: we haven't told our main advisory board yet - but someone allows asks "do we know this wasn't LGBT related rejection" - I generally have the role of explaining why I don't think it was..lol..this time I may just forget to reply to those emails and see what some bloggers do for fun [17:40:11] New patchset: Aaron Schulz; "[Database] Various DB cleanups." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11731 [17:42:09] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11731 [17:43:29] varnent: at the risk of being Captain Obvious and them rejecting my group's application, that's freenode to you...frankly I never understood why the WMF chose freenode instead of running their own ircd (well, the ircd exists and all, but it's used only for recent changes bots) [17:44:25] ashley: well - I pondered that too - my best guess is that Freenode - at that time - aligned well with WMF's principles and it was one less thing for the at that time even more overloaded than now engineering team [17:44:53] ashley: probably just easier to let someone else deal with the hassle and spammers - but x number of years later.. [17:45:17] ashley: especially if wiki projects in general are now suspect under their stricter applicant criteria [17:45:29] mmm :-/ [17:45:48] an irc network (especially) for wikis would be sweet :-) [17:46:06] ashley: I mean either WikiQueer was rejected for being LGBT - which I seriously doubt - or it's a sign of things to come for other wiki projects outside the WMF umbrella [17:46:53] ashley: the problem is that from a WMF resources standpoint - it's not clear that it's a win for them given that Freenode is unlikely to change their minds about WMF's membership - whereas it's possible some of our friends at other wikis may have their channels revoked [17:47:22] well, you never know for sure...but in any case, it was a bad move on their part [17:47:41] I'm not pleased with them - and they know it [17:47:45] lol - not that they care [17:47:54] true... [17:48:13] of course big and notable projects (WMF, Ubuntu and whatnot) are always allowed, but there was a time when very few people had heard of either of those ;-) [17:48:33] one of my points exactly [17:48:50] the irony is that WikiQueer was rejected from a political IRC for being too software based - lol [17:49:09] ouch [17:49:10] the political ppl thing we're too software and the software ppl think we're not software enough [17:51:23] sort of the "I can pick on my little brother but you can't" mentality [17:52:13] yep...in freenode's defense, it's been reliable -- but if I had the choice, I'm not sure if I'd use it as the primary IRC server for my project, as I prefer certain independency; for backup channels, freenode's ok though [17:53:42] varnent: why you just don't use some "we don't care" irc network :D [17:53:49] where you don't need to apply for a channel [17:54:00] I generally like them more than the alternatives I've seen thus far - but a part of that had been their willingness to accept open source or free content projects - but it's that's changing..I'm less inclined to defend or support them anymore [17:54:03] there are networks where you can create any channel you want if it's free [17:54:15] yeah - they usually suck in support though :/ [17:54:23] hm... [17:54:24] 03(mod) chrwiki logo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37327 +comment (10Dereckson) [17:54:33] that is what bigger networks are good in [17:54:36] and any LGBT channel is, in part, begging for unwelcome problems..so support of some kind is helpful [17:54:54] problem is that non profit small network would likely have a low number of staffers, which makes sense, thus worse support [17:54:55] if it were a "save the puppies" wiki - sure :) [17:55:19] * varnent would like to meet the hacker who targets the "Save the Puppies" projects [17:56:17] varnent: you'd find them in the local county jail after 4chan had found out their identity and turned them over to the police :) [17:56:33] exactly [17:56:49] in the cell with the NAMBLA software engineers :) [17:57:10] and PBS engineers - for some reason - lol [17:57:20] 4chan has it in for PBS.. [18:02:28] New patchset: Aaron Schulz; "[Database] Various DB cleanups." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11731 [18:04:36] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11731 [18:04:42] New review: Aaron Schulz; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10544 [18:04:45] Change merged: Aaron Schulz; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10544 [18:06:28] ashley: so how crazy do you think it would be to request WM Ops take on a more public IRC network? [18:09:31] varnent: I'd definitely try it :) I mean, it doesn't cost anything to ask...and there is already an IRC network run by WMF, it's just intentionally very restricted [18:11:12] ashley: I may see how some ops folks feel after a couple drinks in the bar at Wikimania :) [18:11:36] aka people's period of open-mindedness [18:12:31] hehe, that's a good idea (-; [18:17:40] varnent: I think it's good idea except for that it should be managed only by wmf ops [18:18:01] that could result we would have more work / or hire more ppl [18:19:08] that's my pondering on how likely they are to go for it when the biggest benefactors are likely to be outside the WMF umbrella [18:19:13] the current IRC is managed by volunteers so could be own network [18:19:16] realistically [18:20:19] it could run on wmf hardware or somewhere like labs, but it could be completely set up and maintained by volunteers or volunteers and wmf ops, which would mean absolutely no cost [18:22:03] [18:22:08] wmf ops and volunteers - like labs - seems like the best option - in my mind [18:22:13] umm, eww? [18:22:42] the response I would be looking for. [18:22:51] which is always something wmf ops would likely disagree with :) I don't think they like community putting nose in operations [18:23:24] like my idea to convert etherpad to community maintained project on labs completely failed [18:26:38] if WMF Ops wanted to do all the work and allow outside entities on as well - I'm not gonna argue :) [18:27:19] petan: I think that was not a "we don't want that," it was a "we are not prioritizing the tools people need to do that" [18:27:48] petan: mutante has put some work into the Etherpad issue, for example [18:28:10] huh, there are a lot of rows on commons with cl_collation = '' [18:28:11] sumanah: I think that reply was something like "we rely on etherpad, so we can't let semi-trusted community members break it" or something like that [18:28:14] petan: it's tough, balancing the urgent and the important [18:28:31] sumanah: do you think Ops would groan if we proposed a Freenode-free IRC solution? [18:28:40] varnent: I just don't know. [18:28:55] varnent: other people might, especially freenode staffers who are wikimedians [18:28:59] petan: I think you're possibly oversimplifying the response you got. [18:29:06] where's a good mind reader when we need one.. [18:29:09] sumanah: that's possible :) [18:29:34] but that's how this kind of replies sound to me [18:29:44] sumanah: I was going to ask on the list - but you may know - was there a simple reason why that outreach listserv is on OpenHatch vs WM-listserv? [18:30:03] petan: yeah, you sort of assume-bad-faith a little more than I'd like :-) [18:30:48] varnent: paulproteus, a.k.a. paulprot1us, a.k.a. Asheesh of OpenHatch, basically said "let's have a public list to help coordinate this stuff!" and set it up. [18:30:48] lol - taking the "blah blah blah the answer is no blah blah blah" approach to reading emails? I have some friends who got their PhD's in that.. [18:31:07] sumanah: that's simple enough :) [18:31:35] sumanah: I haven't replied yet - but I like it a lot [18:31:47] sumanah: after some time on project and after facing some people who were, let's say a bit "demotivating [18:32:00] eh, I pressed enter before finishing... [18:32:19] let's say "demotivating" it's hard for me to assume good faith every time [18:32:55] petan: yes, I also struggle with assuming good faith of some people [18:33:02] I know most of people on wikimedia are doing things in good faith, unfortunatelly there are some who don't, fortunatelly I never met such in wmf [18:33:19] sumanah: you have any reason you'd rather I push pause on sending in an application for a WM-listserv to do wmdevo-announcements style list as DanielR proposed? [18:33:28] That's good to hear, that at least WMF has not given you any of that :-) [18:33:44] varnent: let me refresh my memory on that [18:33:52] varnent: ok, go ahead, why not [18:34:45] Krenair: Thanks for the help, I was about to turn my laptop into a frisbee. I've applied for the ownership of my four extensions. I'll apply for membership in others as need arises. Thanks too Platonides. [18:35:14] jdpond: oh good! [18:35:15] sumanah: okay - my only wariness is I could envision it being seen from the outside world as a list housed within, or otherwise somehow connected to, your office - regardless of perception/reality - so wanted to double check before that possible thought bubble emerges online :) [18:35:33] varnent: remind me what sorts of announcements this list would be for? [18:35:53] varnent: events (online & offline), big changes (like the switch to Git)? [18:35:57] Platonides: ping [18:36:20] Platonides: is there any progress with your GSOC project? [18:36:46] sumanah, when an extension repo is created isn't the maintainer on the wiki page supposed to be the project owner in gerrit? [18:36:55] sumanah: essentially a more active announcement list than the WM one and less active than the dev-l ones - so MW releases, links to monthly reports, major announcements, events - essentially things that the small group of volunteer/staff moderators see as being important for the broad WM developer community to know [18:37:08] Krenair: I believe so, yes [18:37:32] " a more active announcement list than the WM one" - varnent, do you mean, more active than mediawiki-announce? [18:37:39] Because Jpond is the author of NSFileRepo and wasn't put on the owner list [18:37:48] sumanah: yes - sorry [18:37:55] Krenair: that's weird, go ahead and fix/investigate? [18:38:07] It seems no one was: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/groups/148,members [18:38:12] I can't fix it, I'm not a gerrit admin. [18:38:45] I know, hence the "/investigate".... let me see what I can do [18:38:52] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership#Project_Ownership_request_for_extensions:_DiscussionThreading.2CNSFileRepo.2CNewUserNotif.2CStringFunctionsEscaped [18:40:46] Krenair: I'll ask Chad what's up [18:41:13] He's the expert! [18:41:38] 03(NEW) Please upload Barack Obama's weekly video addresses from April-June 2012 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37658 normal; Wikimedia: General/Unknown; (odder.wiki) [18:41:48] varnent: so, that seems like a reasonable purview for that list. If you can, when you submit the request, please do put a description like that in there. It's annoying when there's a mailing list with no description! [18:42:14] sumanah: sounds reasonable - and I agree :) [18:42:50] So umm, it appears there are 48331 rows in the categorylinks table on commons that are wrong... [18:42:59] based on a query on the toolserver [18:45:51] varnent: back to the IRC thing... so, what problem are you trying to solve, with switching more Wikimedia communications to a non-Freenode IRC server? [18:46:31] wait why would we want to do that. I thought everyone liked freenode folks [18:46:54] sumanah: well there's the rub - it's more a friends of WM problem than WMF problem - it appears than FN is not going to allow more wikis as FN partners - which isn't a big problem for WMF - but leaves some of our partners/friends IRC homeless now [18:46:58] bawolff: yeah, I'm curious about varnent's reasoning as well. [18:47:54] I'm trying to get more info from Freenode - but my last email with them indicates that wikis no longer qualify unless they also operate open-source software - so WMF would still qualify - but other wikis do not [18:48:54] sumanah: I think mozilla has own network for some good reason [18:49:37] varnent: maybe good beginning would be to make a list of caveats and benefits [18:49:43] so yeah - that's why it's not an immediately logical conclusion that WMF would have an interest in this - but it does imply why some of us may have newfound motives for wanting to volunteer, or recruit volunteers (in my case), to help with something like that [18:49:50] then it would be much easier to decide what to do [18:49:54] varnent: aha, I see. What about MarginsIRC or one of the other billion IRC networks? [18:49:54] tparveen_: hi there! [18:50:15] hello sumana [18:50:30] petan: I agree, very sensible [18:50:48] varnent: maybe create etherpad I would insert lot of points [18:51:01] :) [18:51:07] or wiki page [18:51:47] on other side we could also try to convince freenode to adjust their rules in order to fit better to our needs [18:51:58] sumanah: that's something I'm going to investigate with folks at Wikimania - are there some alternatives that solve the problems - so far the only ones I've looked at personally had limitations - mostly related to membership requirements or poor support, lots of spammers, poor technical infrastructure, etc. - Freenode had solved most of that so until recently I didn't have a motive to look further - but if there's something out there - great :) - t [18:51:58] begs the question should WMF consider supporting them instead, etc. [18:52:27] varnent: Does WMF financially support Freenode? I am unaware. [18:52:36] I think yes [18:52:45] petan: link? [18:52:51] [citation needed] :-) [18:52:53] they donate [18:52:53] at least some employees of wmf do [18:52:58] or have in the past [18:52:58] I can see it from cloaks they have [18:53:09] petan: as a lobbyist I'm an eternal optimist that entities may change - so I agree that it's not a foregone conclusion that FN won't be fine with folks in 5 days :) [18:53:24] In the past when freenode had fundraisers, there was also notices on VP type pages (although i haven't seen that in a while) [18:53:26] petan: ok, that's separate, though. I as a WMF employee donate to various causes but that is different from WMF doing it. [18:53:32] sumanah: I have no idea - but I am aware that some folks volunteer or donated to Freenode, myself included, on the basis that WMF had partnered with them [18:53:38] I think wmf made a 50 000 donation a while back [18:53:54] varnent: "partner with" is vague, right? [18:53:59] bawolff: link? [18:54:09] sumanah: well - ALL our IRC channels are here - which to me implies a pretty strong partnership [18:54:17] *all our public [18:54:25] varnent: these channels are unofficial in most cases [18:54:45] that would be one great benefit of own network, we could have finally official IRC support / channels [18:55:03] there are plenty of discussions on wiki who should be responsible for IRC and how it should be operated [18:55:12] petan: I think listing them on WMF sites and hosting WMF sponsored events - like office hours - in them implies otherwise to folks - remember that a vast majority of folks have no idea of the complexities of the WM sphere [18:55:29] IRC channels are unofficial for reasons that have nothing to do with who hosts them [18:55:35] most of people believe that it should be operated just as wikis are, in a democratic fashion where people are elected and can be recalled, but that's not what happens now [18:55:49] that's not how wikis are operated now either [18:55:54] I look forward to a more organized discussion of the costs and benefits of this sort of thing. [18:55:56] or at least most aren't [18:56:00] enwikipedia sort of is [18:56:15] And to citations of how WMF has supported FreeNode, financially or otherwise, in the past. [18:56:47] 03(NEW) SimpleSearch: shift, option/alt, command/clover keys eaten by JavaScript in Safari - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37659 normal; MediaWiki: Search; (michael) [18:56:50] petan: to be honest - I doubt most people care - lol - but I think that folks assume to some extent that Freenode is compatible with WMF's principles - and I'm not implying they're not - I'm just presented with a realistic problem for me and my clients that I'm selfishly trying to solve [18:56:57] varnent: J. Wales many times mentioned on his talkpage that wmf isn't affiliated with IRC and that it's a volunteers maintained project which he can't take any responsibilty for, de-facto it's something what isn't under wmf at all [18:57:24] And this is not the only interdependency we have, right? [18:57:41] Wikimedia (the movement as a whole) interoperates with a lot of services WMF does not make or provide [18:57:52] oh it was only $5000. that's lss imprsiv https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Freenode_Donation [18:57:59] petan: fine - but my point is most folks making quick conclusions on who WMF plays nice with and who they don't is unlikely to be someone who has read all of Jimbo's talk pages - or would even think to look there :) [18:58:55] ISPs, email, hosts, PHP, MySQL, browsers, Identi.ca, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Google, the mobile phone networks for Wikipedia Zero, Android and iOS....... [18:59:16] thank you bawolff .... looking now [18:59:43] it was back in 2006. I thought there was a more recent donation, but I can't seem to find [19:00:11] but we definitly used to put notices about freenode fundraisers on wiki in prominant places back in the day [19:00:19] yeah, USD5000 six years ago, good to know..... [19:00:24] ah, also good to know! [19:00:38] although that could have just been some admin who really liked freenode [19:00:41] :-) [19:00:49] so, a small analogy: [19:00:59] sumanah: true - but I think most people see a difference between Apple having a Facebook page for iTunes and allowing Facebook integration into iOS6 - WMF hosting their public IRC channels on Freenode - and donating financial/operation resources to that end - I think people would see as different from WMF having a Twitter acct or using Verizon for staff cell phones - however I think who they use as an ISP probably would be seen as a closer partner th [19:00:59] say their postal delivery company (FedEx?) [19:01:04] I guess back in 2006, $5000 was a fairly big donation for the wmf [19:01:08] now that'd be nothing [19:01:32] I'm not sure all the folks in the list you mentioned are apples to apples comparisons [19:02:01] more like apple to oranges - one keeps doctors away and the other is annoying to unwrap and causes heart burn..so..there's that.. [19:02:19] varnent: oh, for sure, I was being very very broad in the comparisons. [19:02:28] points taken. [19:03:09] in any case - I actually like the principles of Freenode a lot [19:03:09] a [19:03:31] own network would allow us to integrate our wikis with that and have the chat inside mediawiki, that would be cool [19:03:40] :) [19:04:02] like each user could identify to network using their SUL etc [19:04:10] 03(mod) SimpleSearch: shift, option/alt, command/clover keys eaten by JavaScript in Safari - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37659 (10Michael Zajac) [19:04:17] and if they can change a bit on this new no-Wiki stance - I don't think there's much reason to discuss too heavily - imho - but petan may have reasons that could convince me - however, as a third-party wiki admin and developer - I see WMF working with a partner that won't play with the rest of us as well as being at least annoying - Twitter lets us host a page and AT&T takes my cell phone money too :) [19:05:52] no-wiki stance? [19:06:06] Lydia_WMDE: freenode doesn't like wikis :) [19:06:06] hi there Lydia_WMDE! Recovered from those early-June events? [19:06:15] Lydia_WMDE: I got an email rejecting a wiki saying that under FN's stricter policies we're not "software" enough for them anymore :( [19:06:41] varnent: uhm ok... and have you discussed it with them already? [19:06:47] sumanah: hi! :) yes - thx - and you? [19:07:08] it's just a treadmill, Lydia_WMDE .... event event event with barely breathing room in between. [19:07:16] sumanah: though the next ones are coming up already - next week is Qt contributors' summit and then akademy and then wikimania - busy month ahead [19:07:24] heh [19:07:26] Lydia_WMDE: we did a 6 months application process and this was their official response - I've got a few emails back to them asking for clarification and seeking more info on IRC - but so far they've just said they'll get back to us later.. [19:07:27] but it's a nice day out and I got to have a nice brunch with my spouse and talk about science fiction. [19:07:44] \o/ [19:08:15] Lydia_WMDE: isn't it amazing when you suddenly find yourself doing something that you could not have known how to do five years ago? [19:08:25] sumanah: haha totally [19:08:26] Lydia_WMDE: I've done 2 of those in the last 24 hours [19:08:31] oh dear [19:08:33] do tell [19:08:42] Lydia_WMDE: but yeah - the email saying we weren't okay under the stricter enforcement came from their staff portal email addy [19:09:21] * bawolff can kind of understand why relative to their mission [19:09:27] but that's unfortunate [19:09:29] Lydia_WMDE: 1 is that I wrote a pretty good "how to make a workshop useful" response to a question in Ask MetaFilter http://ask.metafilter.com/217860/Work-This-Workshop-Work-It#3146651 , and the other is that I read a scifi story and talked with Leonard about what was wrong with it, using literary criticism/editing skills I have learned over the past few years [19:09:31] Lydia_WMDE: WMF isn't in any danger or anything as it operates MediaWiki - but annoying for other wikis [19:09:51] varnent: who is the "we" here? [19:09:57] sumanah: rocking :D [19:10:03] varnent: that is, what wikis, specifically, are endangered? [19:10:15] that was what i was wondering too :D [19:10:16] sumanah: WikiQueer was rejected via email and one of my clients was told their city wiki was also likely to be rejected [19:10:22] Lydia_WMDE: yeah! it's like I get to channel some other, wiser, stronger Sumana, and then I realize she's me! [19:10:36] sumanah: haha go go go! [19:10:46] varnent: WikiQueer seems like an excellent candidate for MarginsIRC [19:11:09] sumanah: Sunlight Foundation is appealing for us pointing out that our IRC channel was to be used for developing their APIs and wiki-based software - but I doubt that'll work [19:11:51] sumanah: I'm going to check out MarginsIRC - if it works for WQ - that'd be great - have to see if it will work for my clients as well [19:12:00] Lydia_WMDE: I actually wanted to get your feedback re my advice in http://ask.metafilter.com/217860/Work-This-Workshop-Work-It#3146651 -- do you think my four-part distinction is reasonable? [19:12:06] good luck varnent [19:12:10] ty :) [19:12:20] sumanah: hmm let me read it in detail - one sec [19:12:26] Sure [19:12:37] sumanah: I mean ultimately we can just house it on our server - but I'd rather support community efforts, etc. - and again - that doesn't help clients, etc. [19:12:42] you might need to read the question to make sense of the answer, although that might be obvious [19:15:48] Krenair: ok, I emailed Chad about jdpond, thanks for the heads-up [19:15:53] ok [19:15:58] sumanah: yes looks good - i'm thinking though... I would probably have separated breaks and unconferency stuff [19:16:22] Lydia_WMDE: fair enough. [19:16:56] 03(mod) MessageIndexRebuild still failing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37647 +comment (10Niklas Laxström) [19:17:23] but then again what people do in their breaks is often pretty similar to unconferency stuff [19:17:31] Lydia_WMDE: so, did you ever read about Mako's research on why Wikipedia succeeded and other contemporaneous projects didn't? https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Almost_Wikipedia [19:17:44] hah no i did not [19:18:01] will look into it [19:18:02] Lydia_WMDE: one reason is: even though the peer production model was unfamiliar and chaotic and new, the goal was well-defined [19:18:10] *nod* [19:18:15] that makes perfect sense [19:18:17] Lydia_WMDE: you can see his talk at Wikimania, or read a summary at http://www.niemanlab.org/2011/10/the-contribution-conundrum-why-did-wikipedia-succeed-while-other-encyclopedias-failed/ [19:18:26] k [19:18:44] Lydia_WMDE: whereas these other projects were trying to redefine both process and THE NATURE OF KNOWLEDGE CYBER COLLAB DISTRIBUTED ETC ETC [19:18:52] process and outcome [19:19:04] ahhhh [19:19:06] yeah [19:19:09] so, I think that workshops are kind of like that [19:19:09] that also makes sense [19:19:15] *nod* [19:19:34] that you can either be really innovative and groundbreaking and inclusive etc in what you are doing or how you are doing it, but both is very hard [19:19:47] this is also an issue with Agile [19:20:24] so, people who already know and trust each other, and are good at public speaking and collaboration, and are experts in the field? unconference might work! [19:20:53] newbies who are learning not just a new skill but a new way of thinking? give them structure [19:21:10] yeah that is also my experience [19:21:33] it's tough [19:21:42] because one wants to "be the change you wish to see in the world" [19:21:50] do everything collaboratively, empoweredly, etc [19:21:59] but sometimes the ivy needs a trellis to grow on [19:22:03] heh right [19:22:55] so, that is a longwinded way of saying, yeah, what people do in the breaks, in the hallway track, in unconference sessions, is all related [19:23:33] but I think it's rare to have a good hallway track without some interesting and structured stuff happening in the rooms just off the hallway :-) [19:23:45] lol [19:23:47] yeah [19:24:10] so people who are like "let's just do it all unconference style!" are often wrong [19:24:43] ok, I don't know why I'm rambling like this, I'm gonna stop and go do work that I'm late handing in [19:25:02] ;-) [19:25:03] have fun [19:25:07] i am reading the article [19:25:18] trying to figure out what this means for wikidata [19:25:31] Oh you're right! [19:25:50] I bet if you email Mako he'll opine :-) [19:25:57] good idea! [19:26:01] he's on the WM board I think? or was? [19:26:13] i actually don't know [19:26:39] was. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board [19:26:57] wait [19:27:21] wrong board. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Advisory_Board [19:29:14] tjx [19:29:17] *thx [19:30:47] 03(mod) Wikimedia databases contains categorylinks with type "page" for media files. Run updateCollation.php to fix - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35609 +shell; summary; +comment (10Bawolff) [19:34:46] 03(mod) Wikimedia databases contains categorylinks with type "page" for media files. Run updateCollation.php to fix - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35609 +comment (10Bawolff) [19:38:10] sumanah, Lydia_WMDE, ashley, bawolff & petan: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Hosts [19:39:56] k [19:39:57] ok [19:40:28] Thanks sumanah for getting me help on the code review. You're the best!! :) [19:40:44] :) [19:41:04] jdpond: I am flattered! you are very welcome. Thanks for working on Wikimedia technology. [19:42:16] So my changes to the wikilove messages on mediawiki.org still haven't taken effect. [19:43:35] sumanah: I've been very busy the last couple years starting up our company. However, if there's something you'd like me to take a look at, just point and I'll try and spend a few hours a week late at night weekends. I was reading the discussion above, and you are all right about the culture versus process. Making process is easy. Creating goal-driven cultures is what innovation is all about [19:44:19] Krenair: try poking Kaldari via his talk page? He has a soft spot for WikiLove :-) [19:45:37] jdpond: your generosity is a boon! And I heard a line recently, "culture eats strategy for lunch" [19:45:41] ok [19:46:16] jdpond: you can "watch" specific extensions or Gerrit projects via Gerrit's interface, to see if there's something that could use a review [19:46:45] jdpond: and the search in Gerrit is very useful once you learn how to use it: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/Documentation/user-search.html [19:47:57] New patchset: Umherirrender; "allow combined width/height param in {{filepath:}}" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11733 [19:49:03] varnent: added few points [19:49:15] petan: ty! [19:49:56] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Failed " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: -1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11733 [19:54:25] sumanah: do you have a URL for marginsirc? [19:54:51] varnent: irc.marginsirc.org ? [19:55:22] hmm they don't have any web presence - odd - will check them out on irc later today [19:57:32] New patchset: Umherirrender; "allow combined width/height param in {{filepath:}}" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11733 [19:59:35] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11733 [20:17:41] New review: Brian Wolff; "Not that familar with this extension, but really not a fan of introducing a system message that is j..." [mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/10741 [20:24:48] 03(mod) templatelinks corruption - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37417 (10duplicatebug) [20:37:30] New patchset: IAlex; "Update and fix AutoLoader definitions." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11734 [20:39:34] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11734 [20:47:51] varnent: it's a wiki, can I mess it up edit it? :) I mean, add comments and such... [20:48:27] !wiki WP:BOLD | ashley [20:48:27] ashley: A wiki is a collaborative website which can be directly edited by anyone with access to it. Ward Cunningham, developer of the first wiki WikiWikiWeb, originally described it as "the simplest online database that could possibly work". Wikipedia is one of the best known wikis. [20:48:30] damn [20:48:33] !enwiki [20:48:51] !enwp is http://enwp.org/$1 [20:48:51] Key was added [20:49:02] !enwp WP:BOLD [20:49:02] http://enwp.org/WP:BOLD [20:49:08] ashley: ^ :P [20:49:15] heh [20:49:20] !enwiki alias enwp [20:49:21] Created new alias for this key [20:49:30] !en blah [20:49:30] There are multiple keys, refine your input: enableapi, enotif, enwp, [20:49:39] hm... [20:51:08] @regsearch en.*wiki [20:51:08] Results (Found 139): !, 2.0, ?>, abusefilter, access, adminsettings, ancient, api, authentication, autoload, autothumb, berlin, bleedingedge, bot, botnoob, bugzilla, bunching, cache, centralauth, charinsert, cheatsheet, checkuser, cms, compare, config, corn, createpage, credit, cron, css, deleteuser, dismissablesitenotice, documentation, domdocument, dpl, editing, edittoken, email, enableapi, events, evilglobals, exclamation, export, extensiondistributor, extensions, externaleditor, extranamespace, farm, feeds, gadget, gadgets, git, googleanalytics, gsoc, hdss, highlight, hosting, html, iframe, iis, imagelink, imagemap, img_auth, import, infobox, install, instantcommons, interwiki, ldap, ldapsupport, lockdown, maps, mediawiki, moderation, multiplewiki, mwhelp, namespaces, noshell, oversight, paranoid, parserfunctions, patch, php, php531, poem, ppp, prefsrant, preventaccess, profiling, protect, purge, pywikipediabot, rcbot, refresh, renameuser, repeat, revdelete, rights, safemode, sb, scap, semantichelp, semanticmediawiki, sharedlogins, shell, sidebar, sitenotice, sm, smw, stringfunctions, stroopwafels, subpages, subst, sumanah, support, svnprops, syntaxhighlight, templateproblems, toc, topic, transclusion, undo, unreviewedcode, update.php, upload, useragent, userapproval, version, wallofshame, webrequest, welcome, wikia, wikiacode, wikimania, wmf, wp, wptemplates, wysiwyg, xampp, [20:51:20] @regsearch en.*wikipedia [20:51:20] Results (Found 20): bot, bunching, charinsert, cheatsheet, compare, corn, credit, cron, editing, export, hosting, infobox, interwiki, patch, purge, pywikipediabot, refresh, shell, stroopwafels, wp, [20:51:31] !wp [20:51:31] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 [20:51:34] aha [20:51:38] that's what I needed ^^ [20:55:21] 03(NEW) Cannot toggle first section - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37660 normal; MediaWiki extensions: MobileFrontend; (jrobson) [21:00:43] New patchset: IAlex; "Improve documentation of maintenance scripts." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11735 [21:02:44] New review: jenkins-bot; "Build Successful " [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 1 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11735 [21:11:09] I am getting feeling that we will transform this IRC channel into multiplayer terminal using these bots [21:25:03] Krenair: aww :D [21:25:21] ? [21:26:07] your recent edit@meta -- it made me happy [21:26:34] expiring user rights are silly beyond imagination [21:28:46] um, ok [22:02:28] 03(mod) templatelinks corruption - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37417 +comment (10Betacommand) [22:26:50] 03(mod) MessageIndexRebuild still failing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37647 +comment (10Platonides) [22:47:15] sDrewth: Fun bug! [23:43:50] 03(mod) Thumbnail generation broken on 1.19 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37632 +comment (10Adrian Siemieniak) [23:53:34] New review: Anomie; "Code looks good. Commit message needs work." [mediawiki/extensions/NSFileRepo] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/11730