[00:00:00] really? [00:00:05] yeah [00:00:09] maybe now I've removed the password from htaccess [00:00:11] idno hold on [00:00:12] you mean if you click "please complete the installation" it broke? [00:00:30] wait [00:00:31] i know [00:00:49] ? [00:01:00] lol yeah now i've cleared my cookies it's come back [00:01:02] haha [00:01:22] hahah [00:01:24] basically before i got through to database connection [00:01:36] but it was telling about using innoDB [00:01:40] instead of myISAM [00:01:53] but i'm running phpbb3 so i can't change it to innoDB [00:02:01] what step of the setup is stuck? [00:02:03] so i came here asking for solutions and while i was waiting i closed the tab [00:02:14] i don't know I'm going to go through it now [00:02:35] ok [00:03:25] Anyway [00:03:34] what I want to do is intergrate the phpbb3 users with the wiki users [00:03:40] ahh [00:03:43] I've read up on the extensions to do that [00:03:49] did you add an extension to your install before actually installing mediawiki? [00:04:05] No I haven't done anything yet [00:04:09] before i even start [00:04:20] ok [00:04:25] I just want to know if I should install the wiki into the same database where phpbb3 is and use a different table prefix [00:04:36] /win 46 [00:04:45] without knowing anything about the extension you're using, it's hard to tell [00:04:55] if the extension doesn't specify you are probably safer keeping the DBs separate [00:05:50] would you like me to link you to it, if you can be arsed haven't a quick read about it [00:06:21] sure [00:06:44] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PHPBB/Users_Integration [00:06:46] thank you [00:10:35] sec [00:10:50] looks like the plugin config lets you specify a db for PHPBB [00:11:02] so i would recommend putting mw into its own DB [00:11:12] keeps your data organized and, if one db is compromised, the other is still stave [00:11:24] safe, even. you should use a different username/pass for each DB too, if you can [00:13:39] okay thanks pal [00:13:47] Do I set innoDB when creating the database [00:13:59] yeah [00:14:00] I can't remember the last time I used cpanel to make databases -_-; [00:14:03] mw should still work with that [00:14:08] neve rused cpanel [00:14:18] Yeah I don't really like it [00:14:21] but the host has what is has [00:14:27] Need to setup mysqlfront for it [00:14:47] have you considered using a VPS instead of hosting? [00:14:50] gives you waaaay more control [00:15:08] I normally do [00:15:15] the host is not mine. It's a friends [00:15:28] gotcha [00:16:29] aye [00:16:38] New patchset: Ori.livneh; "Provide configurable parser for varnish log lines." [mediawiki/extensions/EventLogging] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44841 [00:17:13] But yeah I'm new to wikimedia and I don't have the time to read the source code (if it's even available) [00:17:21] and see how it all works etc. [00:17:24] lol [00:17:30] mw is released under GPL...all open source [00:17:36] Ah decent [00:17:37] plus since it's a web app it's pretty easy to see the source :P [00:17:49] Change abandoned: Ori.livneh; "I rebased the addition of tox.ini to the previous commit. As for nose, travis and coverage, I decide..." [mediawiki/extensions/EventLogging] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44866 [00:17:52] yes of course [00:18:04] but previous version are not available if it's all private etc. [00:18:14] ah yeah [00:18:29] But like I said I don't have the time anyway [00:18:37] yeah [00:25:31] anyway what directory should i secure? [00:27:20] i think your upload dir [00:27:29] in images? [00:27:34] what chmod u thinking? [00:27:38] no sure [00:27:49] the setup page with that warning has a link for info on what to do [00:28:01] okay [00:34:29] Thanks for all ur help [00:34:43] I take it extensions will need to be applied after installation [00:35:15] yeah [00:35:27] don't mess with those until the base install is working [00:44:27] cool cheers [01:09:41] Change merged: Nischayn22; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44939 [01:14:53] hi y'all, i recently noticed there is a css class "adminonly" (at least on wikimedia wikis). are you aware if there is an equivalent for logged-in users? [01:16:02] it's an enwiki-specific JS hack [01:16:26] adminonly? [01:16:39] yup [01:16:54] hmm, noticed it on both enwiki and dewiki. [01:19:19] wait really? MediaWiki:Group-sysop.css isnt a mediawiki feature? [01:20:32] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:User_group_CSS_and_Javascript yes it is [01:21:29] the class name is not a MW standard [01:21:48] alright, it's not done via JS as it used to [01:23:27] ok, thank you. do you see any magic-wordish/css/... possibility to create a template that is only displayed if the user is logged in? [01:33:33] New patchset: Alex Monk; "(bug 44181) Add Echo notification for instance deletions" [mediawiki/extensions/OpenStackManager] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44948 [01:37:46] New review: Reedy; "Not sure if Echo should be a required dependency..." [mediawiki/extensions/OpenStackManager] (master); V: 0 C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44948 [01:38:54] Reedy, FYI this is only in Gerrit at the moment because I can't easily git push into an area which requires sudo [01:39:08] (pushed to gerrit, sudo pulled from the instance) [01:42:17] Still 2 other FIXMEs :p [01:43:03] -.- [01:43:17] That maint script doesn't even do anything at the moment [01:43:28] Well maybe it does, but it shouldn't be used [01:43:45] lol [01:43:59] No chance of it working anyway :D [02:36:35] wikibugs is down? [02:37:39] looks like it [04:15:46] New patchset: Pastakhov; "fix location of map editor" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44949 [04:33:50] New review: Pastakhov; "it corrects for markers, but not for the other elements" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44941 [04:38:08] Anyone ever had an update that seemed to work but the page displayed is the standard default page - but the content (although is all there in mysql) is not displaying? [05:20:09] Change merged: Santhosh; [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44584 [05:58:16] New patchset: Mattflaschen; "Change all close methods to use hideAll." [mediawiki/extensions/GuidedTour/guiders] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44952 [06:01:47] New review: Mattflaschen; "This applies to the library's built-in close methods:" [mediawiki/extensions/GuidedTour/guiders] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44952 [06:55:45] New patchset: Amire80; "(no subject)" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44956 [07:12:57] New patchset: IAlex; "Use a LinkBatch for the creator/last editor user (talk) pages in InfoAction" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44957 [07:17:52] New review: Physikerwelt; "There are no unit tests for the math extension yet. So I rendered the WP:MATH page for testing with ..." [mediawiki/extensions/Math] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/30177 [07:19:47] Ah, it's so silent here because the bot is missing that normally spams this channel with my Bugzilla changes... [07:19:58] silent night :) [07:25:40] New patchset: J; "add index to image table to query by type" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35139 [07:46:08] er andre__, i think https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44154 and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43162 are different [07:46:38] Nemo_bis's is about showing something like "No comments entered" while mine is about prevent blank feedback all together [07:46:58] legoktm, uhm, true, now that I re-read. Thanks, I'll undup [07:47:46] thanks :) [07:48:26] thank you, definitely! :) [07:57:11] np. btw do you know why wikibugs died? [08:29:12] New patchset: Pastakhov; "getting list of mappingservice from server dynamically" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44959 [08:48:25] New patchset: Nikerabbit; "(bug 41477) Add Language::isSupportedLanguage" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43794 [08:55:39] New review: Nikerabbit; "A note for extension developers would have been nice." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44685 [08:58:29] New patchset: Nikerabbit; "Test fixes" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44960 [09:44:34] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "AFTv5 controls not selectable with tab" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/36537 [09:47:22] New patchset: Matthias Mullie; "AFTv5 controls not selectable with tab" [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/36537 [09:47:43] Change merged: Matthias Mullie; [mediawiki/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/36537 [09:48:04] New review: Fomafix; "Testet in Firefox, Opera, Chrome and Internet Explorer 8." [mediawiki/extensions/ApiSandbox] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44697 [09:57:19] Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44959 [10:02:09] I have a mediawiki that does not work on my PC, and I compressed another tar file to install another mediawiki, but now the setup process is stucked somewhere i have not seen previously, the setup page says "find mediawiki database tables, upgrade them to MediaWiki 1.20.2, click continue". I am wondering what the consequence is after this, and by the way, my previously installed mediawiki [10:02:09] is 1.20.2, why does it still have to be upgraded? [10:12:34] New review: Siebrand; "L10n/i18n reviewed." [mediawiki/extensions/GuidedTour] (master); V: 0 C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44752 [10:13:23] Change merged: Siebrand; [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44824 [10:18:13] New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "wtf, how did it ever work then?" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master); V: 2 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44949 [10:18:13] Change merged: Jeroen De Dauw; [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44949 [10:22:16] hey guys; i got some data in excel and i want to post them inline within a page in mediawiki. is there some way of autogenerating the table from the excel sheet without me creating the table manually? [10:25:30] project2501b: If you export it to csv and have headers as your first row, instead of converting to a table you could use https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TableData [10:25:57] Change merged: Matthias Mullie; [mediawiki/extensions/Listings] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/39394 [10:40:13] Dantman: thank you! [10:50:19] New patchset: Amire80; "Add placeholder message" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44963 [11:00:45] New patchset: Ori.livneh; "Use io.open(sock.fileno(), ...) on both 2 and 3" [mediawiki/extensions/EventLogging] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44965 [11:01:28] matthiasmullie: Now that I've found documentation for AFTv5 URL parameter values for aftv5_form and aftv5_link at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Article_feedback/Version_5/Technical_Design#Query_string_options , are all these values still in use and expected to be functional? There's a bunch of old AFTv5 bug reports and when e.g. "Improve this page" is not shown I wonder if it's broken (valid bug) or if that test has just been superseded (obsolete bu [11:01:28] g) [11:01:45] New review: VitaliyFilippov; "OK then :-)" [mediawiki/core] (master) C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43445 [11:03:47] andre__: all of these values are still "possible" depending on the configuration; for enwiki, only a limited amount are currently active [11:04:00] is that documented for enwiki somewhere? [11:04:20] not yet, I'll add that [11:04:23] it would be help me to understand which bugs are still valid and which ones just happen because some values are inactive. [11:04:32] thanks [11:05:56] New patchset: IAlex; "(bug 44202) Account creation through API no longer leaks IP address of account creator" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44966 [11:08:40] andre__: updated; & there were even some values missing [11:09:24] thanks! [11:11:24] what does this kind of url "http://mysite/mediawiki/mw-config/index.php?page=Upgrade" during setup process do? [11:17:49] New patchset: Amire80; "Instantly parse edited documentation" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44967 [11:17:55] New patchset: Santhosh; "Commafy support for convertNumber" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44968 [11:17:55] New patchset: Santhosh; "(bug 40354) Add support for formatnum in jqueryMsg parser" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44222 [11:19:53] New patchset: Ori.livneh; "Use io.open(sock.fileno(), ...) on both 2 and 3" [mediawiki/extensions/EventLogging] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44965 [11:20:54] New patchset: Amire80; "Instantly parse edited documentation" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44967 [11:28:35] New patchset: Mwjames; "Clean-up constants and global functions (and extent tests)" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44969 [11:40:26] New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "Neat" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master); V: 0 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44969 [11:40:38] Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44969 [12:27:48] New patchset: Amire80; "Link to full-page doc editing" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44060 [13:02:16] New review: Daniel Kinzler; "Seems fine to me. And a lot more convenient than before." [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43998 [13:48:55] hi all! i need a mediawiki expert do make enhancements for me on mediawiki 1.16. i'm having huge CPU problem. and I have the best VPS package on hostgator. [13:52:22] New review: Reedy; "Minor issues, will fix them up when my working copy has updated then commit it" [mediawiki/core] (master); V: 0 C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38689 [13:53:00] !apc [13:53:16] edgard_: For starters, you're running a rather old version of MediaWiki [14:02:25] I wonder which developer I could trick into looking into a small WikiEditor JS code issue (or at least whose field that is) [14:04:32] Reedy, I know. WikiWorks tried to upgrade but they said, in that time, 1.20 was to buggy. So they gave up. [14:04:44] Reedy: But I cant upgrade now, but in march... [14:04:48] :/ [14:04:58] Have you any caching setup for your mediawiki? [14:05:07] Reedy: They tried, though. [14:05:47] Reddy: Hostgator it's trying to set up right now. AVC [14:05:52] 1.20 is buggy? What? [14:06:06] Reedy: Going slow though... I think they are missing parameters on php.ini [14:06:27] Lxawte: Not today. When it was released. The first version. [14:06:32] You could use a newer version...1.18.6. Or even 1.19.3 which is "long term support" [14:07:04] We didn't have any problems at ShoutWiki when we upgraded, other than an extension was wrongly branched as REL1_20 [14:07:21] Reedy: The problem is the upgrading risk. In in the middle of carnival in Brazil, To many access... [14:07:33] Hiya MediaWiki fans. I started a new open source project: Yamwat - Yet Another MediaWiki API tool. Code is at: https://github.com/yamwat/yamwat and a demo is at: http://getitdaily.com/wikis/ [14:07:35] Well, that's slightly different then [14:07:52] Lcawte, I'm not using glit, so it was harder for them to upgrade. [14:07:59] very limited system currently, but enough to create Yet Another Wiki Stat site [14:09:18] We didn't use git at SW, we used the tarball and reapplied our extensions on top O.o [14:10:47] 1.16 svn -> 1.16 git [14:10:57] !performance | edgard_ [14:10:57] edgard_: [14:11:13] You're going to have to get APC and some other caching installed if you're having cpu usage issues [14:11:22] meh, these articles are sooo old [14:11:43] MaxSem: {{sofixit}} [14:11:44] what other cache? [14:12:00] parser cache, session cache, object cache [14:12:00] Memcache? [14:12:07] Reedy, real programmers no write no manuals! [14:12:15] That's an implementation, not a type ;) [14:12:22] Bar some variable renames most of them is still roughly valid [14:12:53] i'm thinking of giving up of semantics [14:13:30] hey there, my mediawiki report an error "1146: Table 'my_wiki.math' doesn't exist (localhost)", could anyone tell me how to fix it? [14:13:45] run the updater [14:14:06] Reedy, can you recomend a server? [14:14:11] hosting [14:14:28] MaxSem: you are talking to me? [14:14:30] edgard_, no hosting can help you if you don't configure your MW properly [14:14:58] cusion, yes - assume you have a MW 1.19+ and Extension:Math? [14:15:54] MaxSem: exactly, i have MW 1.20.2 and Extension:Math, do you mean update.php in maintenance? [14:16:00] !update [14:16:00] update.php is a script that updates the database tables. You usually need to run it after upgrading MediaWiki or installing certain extensions. For details, see [14:16:14] or was it 1.18 when Math was split out of the core? [14:17:17] Reedy: what do you mean? [14:17:28] That's the information about it [14:18:03] MAx: I dont get why I have more access last year than today. I had a shared hosting on Hostgator that worked well. 60k a day. Now I'm having problem with 20k a day with their best VPS. [14:18:22] Reedy: about what? [14:19:18] edgard_, mebbe increased DB size? or you've installed SMW? [14:20:44] MaxSem: should just run php update.php be OK? [14:21:02] cusion, can you confirm my assumption above? [14:21:33] MaxSem: yeah, i have MW 1.20.2 and math extension [14:21:47] yup [14:21:52] so run the updater [14:22:08] MaxSem:Thanks, :) [14:23:40] Another question, what would happen if i close the setup page when it is upgrading the database? [14:23:44] edgard_: How'd you setup your apache and mysql, did you install it through cPanel or something? [14:23:49] MAx: I have SMW... I'm thinking of disabling it [14:24:14] Lcawte, its a managed server. Hostgator does that [14:24:31] edard_: I was just thingking of trying SMW, what is wrong with it? [14:27:03] MaxSem: how long would it take to complete updating? [14:27:15] should be fast [14:27:37] When we used to have cPanel on the ShoutWiki servers, it caused us some problems... high CPU from Apache and stuff, we got rid of it and we just had high MySQL CPU usage which replacing the disks with SSDs seemed to fix apparently. [14:28:41] Lcawte, this is good to hear [14:28:47] or read :) [14:29:41] edgard_: what is wrong with your SMW [14:30:24] cusion, nothing. smw is awsome. i'm tryng to figure out why i'm having cpu issues [14:32:12] edgard_: cool, i shall try it some day in the future, :) [14:34:54] New patchset: Reedy; "(bug 43008) Show error to user if content type doesn't support sections." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38689 [14:36:50] cusion: i would show you an example, but my website is offline... [14:37:09] New patchset: Reedy; "(bug 43008) Show error to user if content type doesn't support sections." [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38689 [14:39:27] hi mitevam [14:40:37] hi sumanah. how are you ? it's supposed to be the least happy day of the year today, hope its not the case for you :) [14:41:39] mitevam: "least happy day of the year"? I didn't know that [14:43:18] Hello. [14:43:31] sumanah yeah according to some article I read...it's monday, the weekend is over, its winter and cold, and the holiday excitement is over... so supposedly yes :) i don't really feel that way [14:43:59] heh! well, I don't feel that wretched :-) [14:44:13] however mitevam today is MLK Day for us in the USA [14:44:26] a pretty solemn day [14:45:30] I were reading http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/21/king-obama-drones-militarism-sanctions-iran [14:45:45] so, mitevam, what have you been up to today? [14:46:24] oh that is true, so its a holiday today? [14:46:37] yeah [14:46:58] sumanah I have been reading emails and replyign to emails mostly [14:47:10] nod [14:47:13] that's life [14:47:24] sumanah and I have been tryong to figure out a better way to organize and name the vendors page [14:47:30] :-) [14:48:07] sumanah: it got pretty serious (negative) response from people and I think it shifter the attention away from the actual discussions I was trying to start [14:48:18] so it needs to be fixed somehow so everyone is comfortable with it [14:48:18] how many people? [14:49:00] * sumanah sees on the talk page. about 5 [14:49:09] sumanah there were a few people that posted on the discussion page (even restructured the table to be more clear) as well as a few taht emailed me asking why they are listed as vendors [14:49:14] yeah. [14:49:17] okay [14:49:53] Change merged: IAlex; [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38689 [14:49:59] the name is gonna have to change, yeah -- let me suggest *moving* the page possibly [14:50:13] edgard_: sorry, i have been away for a moment, so you have any other cases? [14:51:13] sumanah i think the main issue is that we were never able to define who exactly belongs in the list, I guess the discussion should be open to any third-party user willing to participate [14:51:47] mitevam: right. yeah, you just seeded the list [14:51:54] mitevam: so, have you already looked at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Sites_using_MediaWiki ? [14:52:01] New patchset: Santhosh; "Disable translation text area when user has no translation rights" [mediawiki/extensions/Translate] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44976 [14:52:18] sumanah yes many times [14:52:36] mitevam: it's actually quite odd to have substantive content like that in a talk page! [14:52:43] I'm surprised people did that [14:52:47] cusion: what do u mean? [14:54:17] updater slows down at populating category table, it suggests me to run populateCategory.php, but i do not see running any faster, and table math exists nowhere in my database [14:54:38] mitevam: so, Yaron into Semantic MediaWiki - do you know what that is? [14:54:39] edard_: i ask for you some other examples [14:54:43] New review: Reedy; "Daniel, does this want backporting to wmf7/wmf8?" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38689 [14:55:19] I mean he *is* into SMW [14:55:29] sumanah so i guess i need to somehow define the list, its quite easy to separate the wiki installations from the rest, the problem I guess is how did exactly these isntallations make it to the list [14:55:47] you can look into the history https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_vendors&action=history [14:55:47] sumanah yes i have a general idea [14:56:39] mitevam: right. so, SMW-type people are often really sticklers for certain kinds of orderliness and would rather NOT have certain kinds of information given to readers, rather than have slightly different kinds of information mixed together under (what they consider) miseading headings [14:58:19] mitevam: that's the kind of feeling I think you're running into. That plus of course people's pride and worry re being mislabeled [14:59:04] sumanah that might be the case but I guess he is right in this case. several wiki administrators asked me why they were listed as vendors and said they would rather be removed from such a list [14:59:21] shit [14:59:22] okay [14:59:45] so, I'm sorry that I did not foresee that they would be so sensitive about this kind of thing [15:00:13] I should have seen that and told you to have separate pages or rename the page first or something. I apologize [15:00:51] and generally sumanah I think the list should not be so central , the discussion should be the main point of the project so I think I made a huge mistake putting it first thing there, it made sense to me since it was my first task but I think I should rather just have it in a subpage called "This is whom I contacted so far".. [15:01:14] you know what [15:01:31] you could move the page to a subpage of your userpage [15:02:07] how will that change thing [15:02:08] User:Mitevam/MW admins I have contacted [15:02:29] change the name, mitigate the damage until you have a chance to straighten things out [15:02:55] so how about the discusssion page, some people actually wrote feedback on it and I have sent a link to many so I can't just delete it [15:03:12] don't worry, when you MOVE a page, the talk page moves with it [15:03:44] so, mitevam, just to the left of the search box at the top of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_vendors do you see a little downward facing arrow? [15:03:48] a triangle? [15:04:00] i can't I just rename the existing page? [15:04:21] moving is better [15:04:32] it's basically the way you rename a page [15:04:46] in MediaWiki [15:05:04] ok I see it [15:05:18] I am not sure if I should just jump into it though [15:06:08] honestly I think it's a reasonable thing to do right now -- move it into your userspace to a different pagename to signal that it's sort of under discussion [15:06:25] edgard_: Any luck on improving performance? [15:06:35] i have already created some mess, i dont want to make it even worse [15:07:29] mitevam: I understand. ok. so in that case, I think the best thing is to move the page & talkpage to a new name. What should that name be? [15:08:22] "MediaWiki vendors, consultants, and interesting installations"? [15:08:33] should i just call it "Discussions on third-party user issues" , and have a link on the page to the tables(on a subpage) called "Users I have contacted so far" [15:08:50] (nothing is going to be perfect) [15:09:31] btw also mitevam I see you haven't responded to any of the discussions on the talk page -- people will generally be a lot more happy to work with you if you engage with their concerns by talking in those discussions [15:09:40] "people" here being opensourcey people [15:10:04] even if all you say is "I'm sorry for the mixup and am trying to figure out how to correct it while still keeping this list, which is useful to me, in one place" [15:10:32] mitevam: sorry, I just saw your question now, about Semantic MediaWiki. [15:10:34] well technically it should open to all third-party users who has something to say so I think I can just call it "Discussion on third-party user issues" [15:10:44] I can answer now, or later... [15:11:21] yaron: which question do you mean? [15:12:02] mitevam: so the structure you envision is: the page title is something like "Third-party MediaWiki user issues" and then there is a subpage that has the list of installations/vendors/farms? and the current discussion that's happening on the talk page stays and continues on the talk page? [15:12:05] mitevam - oh, oops, that was a question from sumanah, actually. [15:12:24] Yeah. I just wanted to make sure she knew the context. Hi yaron [15:12:28] Oh, okay. [15:12:47] sumanah, mitevam: since I'm already talking here - what exactly is the point of that big list? [15:13:05] I mean, I understand the point of the accompanying talk page, but not entirely for the main page. [15:13:11] yaron: Mariya is an intern who is working to get the third-party community talking with each other. [15:13:17] Right, that part I got. [15:13:18] That's the list of people she's been reaching out to. [15:13:18] sumanah yes that is how i see it, it seems to me that the discussion should be the main point, and the list should just be something that helps me [15:13:22] okay! [15:13:39] But why is the list necessary, if it's really just a private reference? [15:13:40] yaron: So, that list has been useful *to her* and we've been restructuring how it gets presented [15:13:52] well, there's no REASON for it to be private. So it's gonna move into a subpage [15:14:15] Yes, there's no reason for it to be private - and it's useful to have a lot of that info on mediawiki.org. [15:14:18] Also, these folks sometimes will want to reach out to each other [15:14:19] New patchset: Hashar; "SQLite compatbility changes" [mediawiki/extensions/EducationProgram] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43828 [15:14:30] The issue to me is that it's strange to have these five or so disparate lists on one page. [15:14:36] New review: Hashar; "rebased on top of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/43997/ "remove broken test"" [mediawiki/extensions/EducationProgram] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43828 [15:14:46] New review: Hashar; "I have rebased https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/43828/ on top of this change" [mediawiki/extensions/EducationProgram] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/43997 [15:14:49] New patchset: IAlex; "(bug 44202) Account creation through API no longer leaks IP address of account creator" [mediawiki/core] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/44966 [15:14:51] yaron the whole points of the list was for me to find people who seem active, would benefit from the discussion, seem likelt to have something to say , but I guess it was not a good idea to put it there, it was rather for my use but I didn't want to keep to myself so people can add to it, correct it , or maybe use it after my internship [15:15:00] Right. I can understand that. Your tastes lean towards a bunch of different pages (you are a splitter) whereas my tastes are more "lump 'em together". :-) [15:15:29] btw mitevam Yaron is the dude who is putting together a SMW conference in NYC this spring. http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Spring_2013 [15:15:31] I've never been called a splitter before, but, hey, if it applies... [15:15:47] sumanah: I'm not actually the one in charge of that conference - I'm just the local chair. [15:15:53] Had you heard of the "lumper/splitter" divide? [15:15:55] And modest too! [15:16:01] No, I had not. [15:16:08] Oh, I'm extremely modest. [15:16:20] You wouldn't even know. :) [15:16:24] Hahaha! [15:16:33] hehe yes sumanah I actually read about yaron today, trying to get the context, I even sent you a link to his book, it seemed useful to newbies like me :) [15:17:00] Oh, that's nice of you. [15:17:03] Yaron, I ran into http://blog.rachellovinger.com/ Rachel Lovinger this weekend and she said she'd be interested incoming to your conference, maybe giving a talk about what content strategists need in their tech. Is that something that would be interesting to you/the con? [15:17:47] mitevam: OK! It's good to know it seemed useful to you -- I hadn't had the book "tested" yet on a real newbie :-). [15:17:48] Oh, great! Yes, definitely - I know who she is. It would be great to get some standard Semantic Web people in the conference. [15:18:01] yaron: okay! did you already reach out to her about this? [15:18:03] Well, some more, that is - we have one coming already. [15:18:04] No. [15:18:05] or other people like her? [15:18:10] Just one. [15:18:16] Speaking about blog sumanah, if you have some feedback about http://identi.ca/notice/99110063 I'll be happy. [15:18:31] OK. So, unsolicited advice: I suggest you reach out to people like her :-) I shall email her to follow up, and cc you, yaron. :-) [15:18:47] Thanks. [15:19:05] Dereckson: so, my first impression is YAY and I will try to follow up with something more coherent and useful :-) [15:19:09] I'm sorry I hadn't responded yet [15:19:14] I hear the Berlin Hackathon is in Amsterdam this year right? [15:19:19] yes [15:19:27] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Hackathon_2013 [15:19:46] "Somewhere in Amsterdam" [15:19:47] Wheee [15:19:49] Ok. [15:21:02] Are those dates set in stone? I seem to remember seeing an email or discussion, but I can't find the email :/ [15:21:03] mitevam: okay. So, I think this "move it to a Mariya-ish subpage" plan makes sense. Have you ever Moved a page before? [15:21:22] Lcawte: There was a straw poll. Yes, the dates are set now. You should have spoken up if you didn't like it [15:22:14] sumanah: I don't have anything wrong with those dates, infact they are perfect, the Friday is an inset day after my last day full day at school, then its half term -> any remaining exams [15:22:15] Ooh, that's a little harsh. [15:22:26] Never mind, then. [15:23:04] sumanah: mitevam: anyway - one thing I was wondering about: did you consider using a mailing list, instead of a talk page, for this sort of long-term discussion forum? [15:23:38] Lcawte: for reference, straw poll were http://www.doodle.com/3n5cg9ii7gvmcgum and in wiki discussion http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Events/Amsterdam_Hackathon_2013#Date [15:23:39] yaron: mitevam has been pushing people to use mediawiki-enterprise and/or the talk page, but people will use what they are more comfortable with [15:23:42] right? [15:24:03] Oh - I don't think I knew about mediawiki-enterprise. [15:24:10] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-enterprise [15:24:21] yaron I have been emailing people to subscribe to the list because I am afraid most of them wont be on it [15:24:34] It's been rather dormant but it already has a bunch of relevant people signed up so I think it's going to be a good place for this kind of discussion. [15:24:36] yaron so that needs to be done before it can be used [15:24:37] Once people sign up! [15:25:02] mitevam: There's a little bit of chicken and egg; people want to see that a place is moderately busy before they sign up [15:25:08] why sign up for a dead list, after all? [15:25:13] That's true. [15:25:15] also I have noticed that some people I contacted didn't even have an account , User page, etc. so a mailing list might indeed be easier for them [15:25:39] yeah. [15:25:52] The people who have been talking on the Talk page so far are people who already had mediawiki.org accounts [15:26:37] yaron: if you could spread the word to the SMW community that mediawiki-enterprise is a reasonably good list to try out for the next 3 months :-) then that would be cool. The community of SMW admins is part of the community Mariya wants to nurture & bring together [15:26:54] and who knows, maybe this is an opportunity to spread the word about SMW's usefulness to other MediaWiki consultants, big-site admins, etc. [15:27:03] Sure - well, it's really just a matter of writing to the semediawiki-user mailing list about it. [15:27:15] Sure. Could you do that? [15:27:27] Yeah, alright - I'll do that now. [15:27:30] Thanks! [15:27:31]