[00:00:13] 03(mod) Flow: watchlist entries are inconsistent - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/58543 (10Maryana Pinchuk) [00:09:51] 03(mod) Automatically end tours based on user actions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/55983 +comment (10mflaschen) [00:10:33] 03(mod) Automatically end tours based on user actions - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/55983 +comment (10mflaschen) [00:16:18] 03(mod) Non breaking text hits the border - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62194 (10Prateek Saxena) [00:16:26] 03(mod) Use moment.js - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/61481 (10Prateek Saxena) [00:19:24] 03(mod) Tool Labs: Provide two views of the user_properties table - one filtered, one anonymized - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/58196 +comment (10lvilla) [00:38:29] 03(NEW) VisualEditor: Selection problems involving sfn template in Safari - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62765 normal; VisualEditor: General; () [00:41:53] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Selection problems involving sfn template in Safari - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62765 +comment (10wmf.whatamidoing) [00:49:54] hi [00:50:41] where is the correct place to ask questions about parsoid? [00:51:25] 03(mod) Bad Flow diff link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62162 +comment (10gerritadmin) [00:51:26] 03(mod) Bad Flow diff link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62162 (10Gerrit Notification Bot) [00:55:23] 03(mod) Bad Flow diff link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62162 (10bsitu) [01:04:30] 03(mod) Tool Labs: Provide two views of the user_properties table - one filtered, one anonymized - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/58196 +comment (10liangent) [01:10:30] 03(mod) Mediawiki:Common.js loading slowly/late - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/42532 +comment (10aklapper) [01:16:57] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Using bold button on partially bolded selection causes double-bolding - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52189 minor->normal (10James Forrester) [01:24:05] k-man: #mediawiki-parsoid [01:27:42] 03(mod) Two search suggestions boxes are being displayed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/34548 +comment (10yyairrand) [01:29:09] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Move-dragging a media item shows the copy cursor on Mac/Safari - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/51696 normal->minor; summary (10James Forrester) [01:37:42] 03(NEW) VisualEditor: The Save dialog box prompts to fill up a new captcha if a user goes to review changes section and switches back after filling up the captcha field for the first time - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62766 normal; VisualEditor: Editing Tools; () [01:38:12] 03(mod) Show campaign to which a banner is assigned - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32535 +comment (10aklapper) [01:39:22] 03(mod) Insufficient param validation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39830 (10Andre Klapper) [01:42:33] thanks andre__ [01:46:59] 03(mod) When creating a table via 'LoadExtensionSchemaUpdates' a missing semicolon in the sql file silently fails - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/40979 +comment (10aklapper) [01:49:33] 03(mod) Labels of form elements in the preferences are messed up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52697 +comment (10aklapper) [01:53:44] 03(mod) VisualEditor: The Save dialog box prompts to fill up a new captcha if a user goes to review changes section and switches back after filling up the captcha field for the first time - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62766 (10James Forrester) [01:57:00] 03(mod) Allow extension options to be specified in API calls - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52031 +comment (10Andre Klapper) [02:01:12] 03(mod) ApiQueryAllUsers-related queries causing lag on Wikidata - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52979 +comment (10aklapper) [02:05:03] 03(mod) [Potential data loss] Error deleting file - A non-identical file already exists at mwstore://... - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49841 +comment (10aklapper) [02:07:43] 03(mod) Namespace manager - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/7803 +comment (10James Forrester) [02:09:00] 03(mod) Namespace manager - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/7803 (10James Forrester) [02:09:08] 03(mod) Edit conflict detection has regressed and suffers a race condition - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/56849 +comment (10aklapper) [02:16:23] 03(mod) [Potential data loss] Error deleting file - A non-identical file already exists at mwstore://... - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49841 +comment (10bdavis) [02:18:25] 03(mod) &action=purge yields "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (10.0.6.41)" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/43331 +comment (10Bryan Davis) [02:35:32] hey fhocutt fhocutt2 - how goes it? [02:36:56] sumanah: I'm figuring things out slowly, but still don't feel sure what I'm doing [02:37:17] right now I'm seeing if I can get my script with simplemediawiki to edit pages. [02:38:32] Got it. fhocutt2 one page it's ok to edit is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox [02:38:48] that's what I'm trying for. [02:39:05] I'm trying to parse the json-ified token so I can actually use the value [02:40:01] when I print the tokens api call I get this: {u'tokens': {u'edittoken': u'c94d21e410e4eb37c33affd9c64f51e5+\\'}} [02:40:12] and I'm trying to get the token out. [02:40:27] fhocutt2: Hmm. anomie ^ any ideas? [02:42:15] sumanah, fhocutt2: That's the edit token right there. You'd access variable['tokens']['edittoken'], or variable.tokens.edittoken, whichever is the right syntax for accessing the member of the hash/dict/whatever it's called in your language. [02:42:32] fhocutt2: "anomie" is Brad Jorsch, whom you've met via email [02:43:32] ah, hello! [02:45:23] fhocutt2: does that help? [02:45:29] let me try things. [02:45:30] (I mean, Brad's advice.) [02:45:33] Cool. [02:45:55] out of curiosity how do I add categories using visualeditor? [02:46:24] fhocutt2: as a rule of thumb, (a) if I'm not around, you can ask Brad for help, and (b) if you find yourself confused/stuck for 20 minutes in a row, I think you should ask for help [02:46:33] Meiko: I think it's using the template insertion tool but I'm not sure [02:46:47] sumanah: interesting, okay [02:47:22] Meiko: there might be an easier way - I don't know, I haven't tried to do that myself [02:47:37] Meiko: #mediawiki-visualeditor would know [02:47:46] I'll go there [02:56:05] fhocutt2: ok, taking a look now at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code/Access_Library_Comparison [02:57:06] AHA, Meiko - just to the left of Cancel, there's a three-line icon for page settings, including categories [02:57:15] I haven't edited that today, but I've been working on getting simplemediawiki and mwclient working today. [02:57:19] sumanah: ah, thanks :) [02:58:11] fhocutt2: quick tip: when you decide to change a page to recreate it elsewhere, you can choose Move from the dropdown menu just to the left of the search bar, or you can make an old page "redirect" to a new one - see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code:Access_Library_Comparison [02:58:51] oh, ok. [02:59:07] it's a MediaWiki trick - cool to use [02:59:12] and now you know it :) [02:59:28] cool. Good to know. [02:59:51] fhocutt2: you wanted to know more about what questions to ask or test, and how to document what you're learning, right? [03:00:53] yes. [03:01:16] I've figured out that simplemediawiki can at least do the get api calls that I've tried [03:01:23] including one of the wikibase ones [03:01:24] can someone who knows anything about how Extension:Translate works mark this page for translation: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Brickimedia pls [03:01:29] fhocutt2: That's cool! you have an experimental result! :-) [03:01:53] yes! [03:02:38] I've been trying to use it to post to the mediawiki sandbox, but the sandbox doesn't change when I reload it. [03:02:50] no error shows, though [03:03:20] so I don't know what's going on there. [03:03:26] Meiko: maybe you start by wrapping the whole text inside .. ? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate/Page_translation_example has more [03:03:54] sumanah: okay (if you get to that before me, that'd be good; I'm writing an extension page) [03:04:02] fhocutt2: Can you talk me through what you're doing when you try to post to the MediaWiki sandbox? for instance, can you tell whether you are able to successfully log in via the API client library? [03:04:09] Meiko: sorry, I'm focusing on helping Frances right now [03:04:28] sumanah: that's fine :P [03:04:45] I can log in. [03:05:03] I can post the script somewhere, is there anywhere you'd suggest? On my github maybe? [03:05:38] fhocutt2: you could put it in a pastebin like http://tools.wmflabs.org/paste/ [03:05:44] * sumanah waits for that site to come up [03:05:44] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Edits triggering CAPTCHA cannot be saved - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/50356 +comment (10Ricordisamoa) [03:06:02] yeah, it works :) [03:08:01] 03(mod) Closing a block-level element that contains a list at the end of the last list item generates invalid HTML - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39066 (10Ricordisamoa) [03:08:01] 03(mod) pre over multiple lines in lists - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1581 (10Ricordisamoa) [03:09:15] https://tools.wmflabs.org/paste/view/1394197e [03:09:54] so there's what I'm currently trying, and then when I reload Project:Sandbox, nothing's there. [03:15:48] (^ sumanah) [03:16:43] fhocutt2: Looking now. [03:18:57] fhocutt2: ok, let's try a page other than Project:Sandbox. Maybe something in your userspace? User:Fhocutt [03:19:07] in case there's some weird permissions thing around the sandbox [03:21:51] changed it to Users:fhocutt_bot, still nothing there: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Users:fhocutt_bot [03:23:51] fhocutt2: OK, so that's not the problem. Hmm. So, have you been able to *read* a page? [03:24:22] yes! [03:24:44] query seems to work, as much as I've tried it. [03:24:54] by the way, fhocutt2 - check out https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/Python and hit "edit source" to see how we can use to embed code in wiki pages and make it look nice [03:25:25] https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:Coding_conventions/PHP&action=edit§ion=1 shows that works but I haven't played with it to see whether that syntax also works for Python code [03:27:45] fhocutt2: so, on the page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code/Access_Library_Comparison , you could add a bullet point to "simplemediawiki" where you embed some sample code ("here's how you log in" or "here's how you get a list of all the categories associated with a page") using [03:28:49] sure, can do. [03:29:57] fhocutt2 but that is just the *logistics* of how to document what you have tried and what you have been doing. [03:30:11] I know you are interested more in -- what questions to ask and what kinds of answers to provide [03:30:16] right, yes [03:30:57] oh, weird thing: when I edit/query I see the revisions to User:fhocutt_bot from the query, but when I go to the webpage I don't see any changes. [03:31:06] hmmmmmm interesting! [03:31:17] *revisions to the page show up in the query [03:31:39] fhocutt2: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:Fhocutt_bot&action=history does show a change [03:31:50] fhocutt2: "hello everyone else" - is that the new page content? if so, I see it! hit reload! [03:32:25] heh. And it has been deleted, and told to use the sandbox [03:32:32] aaand https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Users:fhocutt_bot got deleted by a mediawiki.org admin . yeah. [03:32:34] but hey! It worked. [03:32:38] YES [03:32:41] high five! [03:32:43] o/ [03:32:52] \o [03:32:56] Nicely done :) [03:32:59] thanks! [03:33:01] https://test2.wikipedia.org/ is more lenient btw [03:33:10] oh spiffy. [03:34:01] OK! so now the experimenty question is - what response did you receive back from the successful "edit that page" request, and in retrospect, can you see the markers of success? [03:34:17] * sumanah is not nearly as soaked in experimental design theory & practice as fhocutt2 [03:34:31] let me see. [03:35:13] let me add to that paste, one sec [03:35:16] 03(NEW) Migration seems to have removed all of my logs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62767 normal; Wikimedia Labs: tools; () [03:36:53] Cool [03:37:48] revised script and result: https://tools.wmflabs.org/paste/view/9ad869e9 [03:37:54] looking! [03:38:11] so the only real difference was I called query immediately after. [03:38:35] ok, so fhocutt2 I figure now is a good time to draw back a little and talk about APIs & HTTP in general - you've now read that chapter of RESTful Web Services? [03:38:42] I thought I'd done that before, but I'm pretty sure I didn't have tokens sorted at the time. [03:38:49] I have! Most of the second, too. [03:40:01] fhocutt2: OK! So, you saw how there are different HTTP response codes, right? [03:40:36] for success and failure [03:40:54] yes. [03:41:11] I'm wondering how our API, and how this particular client library, actually tells the user whether an edit succeeded or failed. Does it use HTTP response codes, or something else? [03:41:27] 03(mod) "Recent changes" and "Watchlist" tabs of preferences suck - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/51941 +comment (10b) [03:41:41] let me look at the code. [03:42:42] 03(mod) Redesign Special:Preferences (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62559 +tracking; summary (10MZMcBride) [03:42:42] 03(mod) Tracking bug (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/2007 (10MZMcBride) [03:42:43] 03(mod) "Recent changes" and "Watchlist" tabs of preferences suck - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/51941 (10MZMcBride) [03:43:51] I'm pretty sure the answer's in _fetch_http (https://github.com/ianweller/python-simplemediawiki/blob/develop/simplemediawiki.py) [03:44:47] I'm also looking at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Errors [03:45:15] "the error code will be returned in the MediaWiki-API-Error HTTP header." [03:46:35] there's this: response = self._opener.open(request) and later "if response.headers.get('Content-Encoding') == 'gzip' ..." [03:46:37] I am getting help from Leonard now because I don't see that header! [03:47:40] OK, this is a problem with the API - that it returns 200 (OK) even under an error condition. Sigh. [03:48:08] ah. I see. :P [03:48:21] Yeah. (this is totally material for your lab notebook.) [03:48:30] is that something to file a bug for, too? [03:49:29] fhocutt2: I think it's something worth filing a bug about, yes, and more than that [03:50:31] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Thread:Talk:Requests_for_comment/API_roadmap/Errors_should_use_reasonable_HTTP_response_codes [03:50:40] fhocutt2: I'm filing a bug right now [03:50:58] well, first I am looking for an existing bug in case I can add to it [03:51:56] ok, I think there is no existing bug and therefore I'll create one [03:54:49] well, now I see that there's a closed bug (marked WONTFIX) but now that we are overhauling the API I think we should give it another look. [03:54:59] that makes sense! [03:55:18] "An error is returned as a node 'error' within the root node, and warnings are returned inside a node 'warnings' within the root node." [03:55:32] even if it's WONTFIX it should be documented that it always returns 200. [03:56:32] ok, done https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=API%3AErrors_and_warnings&diff=931752&oldid=921360 [03:56:52] sweet. [03:57:11] 03(NEW) CirrusSearch should embed performance data in the page output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62768 enhancement; MediaWiki extensions: CirrusSearch; () [03:57:24] ^d: as promised ^ [03:57:40] 03(mod) [[Special:CentralAuth/MediaWiki message delivery]] is missing every wiki but Meta-Wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60385 +comment (10MZMcBride) [03:57:59] if i sound bossy there it's only because i'm stoked to build a good UI for reporting that, and that i think it will be useful for you guys [03:59:23] ori: Um, we don't use that word. [03:59:51] ori: btw I would like for you to meet fhocutt2, an applicant for OPW who's learning to use our web API [04:00:02] sumanah: sure -- hello, fhocutt2! [04:00:07] fhocutt2: this is Ori Livneh, a colleague and friend of mine who focuses on performance (speed, responsiveness, etc.) at WMF [04:00:40] hello, ori! [04:00:42] ori: fhocutt2 used to work in chemistry, so she's far more diligent than I am about wanting to get, like, reproducible experimental results worth publishing! [04:00:49] in 1.23, i don't seem to have an "upload File" link in my tools section of the sidebar [04:00:51] * fhocutt2 grins [04:01:00] fhocutt2: benchmarks are currently kind of the bane of ori's existence I believe. [04:01:19] k-man: is this on a Wikimedia site, or on your own MediaWiki installation? [04:01:31] my own installation sumanah [04:01:38] !upload [04:01:38] File uploads are disabled by default, set $wgEnableUploads=true; to enable it. See for configuration details, and for using uploaded images and other files. [04:01:51] thanks sumanah [04:01:57] fhocutt2: Tim Starling, who just came in from away, used to focus on physics. (We do get a fair number of suchlike) [04:02:08] fhocutt2: that's really cool. what are you planning to work on? [04:02:35] I'm planning to evaluate the existing API libraries in a couple of languages, then pick one to contribute to. [04:02:47] I'll probably be doing a fair bit of documentation there. [04:03:47] right now I'm getting familiar with what's available in Python and trying to get them to work for me [04:03:49] fhocutt2: neat! what made you pick that as an area to work on? (it's a fine choice; i'm just curious!) [04:04:15] are there extensions to mw that make uploading images easier? [04:04:20] sumanah mentioned she could use an intern, and it seemed like it would line up well with skills I had already [04:04:24] k-man: UploadWizard [04:04:34] !e UploadWizard [04:04:34] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UploadWizard [04:04:38] detail-oriented, testing, writing, that sort of thing [04:06:01] 03(NEW) Rename extension to "Hovercards" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62769 normal; MediaWiki extensions: Popups; () [04:06:18] and, you know, working with Sumanah. :) [04:06:24] fhocutt2: makes sense. there's a lot of work to be done on collecting and analyzing performance data, too, if you're interested. but i don't want to distract you from api client library work, which sounds very fine [04:06:32] * sumanah is flattered [04:06:34] fhocutt2: :) [04:07:04] ori: I think if you'd mentioned that a week or 2 earlier I'd have suggested Frances consider you as a mentor and that as a project. But since the app deadline is in about 2 days.... [04:07:32] ...yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this stuff. [04:07:40] ori: is that idea already in the Raw Projects area of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Raw_projects ? [04:07:42] closer to 1 day, I think, since it's UTC [04:07:44] True [04:07:52] (eep) [04:08:06] it's not; i can add it [04:08:26] ori: please do; you may get a flurry of people interested in the next day or so [04:08:46] OK, doing so right now [04:08:57] I had to withdraw from work a little for family reasons, but I'm catching up slowly [04:09:13] <^d> ori: I saw, thanks. I'll take a poke at it soon. [04:09:51] ori: best wishes to your family [04:09:51] thanks (to both) [04:10:13] sumanah: can i give you the elevator pitch so you can help me place it under the right category? [04:10:22] fhocutt2: so I think tonight we should wrap up your microtask and get you drafting the proposal :) [04:11:04] yes! https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox [04:11:13] yes, I think that's a good idea. [04:11:48] fhocutt2: to wrap up your microtask, I think it's okay to basically show your work from the past couple days -- like, "I tried doing foo [code here] and got this response back [response] which seemed intimidating/easy to understand/counterintuitive/etc." [04:12:07] congrats on getting https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox edited! [04:12:11] uploadwizard is nice, thanks [04:12:37] ok, cool. Also to mention reading like the RESTful APIs book? [04:13:24] huh. Not doing query doesn't change things--it still edits. I wonder if I was having some sort of cache weirdness? [04:13:34] fhocutt2: oh that might be it for sure [04:13:55] heh. Well. It does work now. [04:14:17] and I know how to deal with the tokens and all that stuff. [04:14:24] fhocutt2: I think you could mention "stuff I did to figure this out" in sort of a "resources" section at the bottom of the microtask page, including the chapter of the REST book and any other pages that were really helpful to you [04:14:53] sounds good [04:16:00] so basically, I've gone from "not quite sure what an API is" to "wrote scripts that use the basic API library to get and post information, and showed that this wrapper just does the API calls, Python-style." [04:16:09] at least, does the ones that I tried. [04:16:27] Yes [04:16:39] which include one of the wb ones. [04:17:03] I can write that up. [04:17:20] In retrospect, it would have been great if you could have also tried out one of the API client libraries that was built on a really different paradigm -- the "interact with the affordances of a wiki" paradigm -- but I don't want to waste your time on that now. [04:17:46] I started poking at mwclient but haven't gotten it working very well for me. [04:18:00] I did some get calls with it though [04:18:20] fhocutt2: Then I think it's fine to mention what you tried and what worked. [04:18:33] (Cool, you got further than I understood!) [04:19:38] I don't think I tested the login, actually; it might be faster than I expect to get to test more of it, but I'll wait until after I finish writing up everything else. [04:19:50] (\o/) [04:19:54] Yeah, including your proposal, Frances [04:20:01] eep, yes that too. [04:20:14] so how about the time schedule and deliverables? [04:21:05] I am generally too optimistic about this kind of thing. [04:21:09] sumanah: https://dpaste.de/v9fy [04:21:30] sumanah: if you have a chance, could you tell me where you think that should go? [04:22:23] ori: one thing to add - what languages you think the relevant person could use. Once you add that, add your chunk of info to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Raw_projects and send a quick mail to Quim Gil alerting him that it exists [04:22:34] so fhocutt2 you remember the email I sent you with a draft schedule? [04:22:54] yes. ~1 week to write standards, ~7 weeks to evaluate libraries in ~5 languages against them, 4 weeks to contribute to a project with bug reports, bugfixes, and documentation [04:23:27] with AdaCamp/OSBridge in the middle there [04:24:05] fhocutt2: How much time can you spend between now and the start of OPW on this stuff? because it would be good to think about how to use that time [04:24:38] not as much as this week, but definitely some. Let me think. [04:26:00] so about a month and a half? I think I can commit to 1-2 days/week, depending on energy and other projects. [04:27:39] fhocutt2: I'm thinking that it would be great for you to use the next few weeks - as much time as is reasonable - reading and learning. It would be great if, during the Community Bonding Period, you could read some of the existing API documentation and get comfortable using the requests library to manipulate it [04:27:56] fhocutt2: also, have you used Git in the past? I have forgotten. [04:27:59] done: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Wikimedia_Performance_portal [04:28:03] so like I've been doing, but even moreso? [04:28:05] I'll e-mail Quim now. thanks for the advice! [04:28:22] "UploadWizard is nice" right, who's lying to the new people [04:28:42] k-man: Glad you like it! :-) What specifically do you like? [04:28:51] ori: Glad to help! [04:29:00] I've used it a little bit, and I worked through a git branching tutorial that was very helpful. [04:29:20] fhocutt2: Great. There is a huge difference between "never" and "a little bit" in my opinion [04:29:21] as I contribute to dreamwidth I'll be learning it for that too. [04:29:28] Oh yes, they use that as well [04:29:32] definitely. [04:29:44] (I remember they switched to Git) [04:30:38] fhocutt2: Your phrasing - "so like I've been doing, but even moreso?" - makes me wonder what is actually achievable in about 5-10 days of work/study for you, between now and the start of the internship [04:31:16] which direction actually? [04:32:00] fhocutt2: Well, I am worried I'm asking too much [04:32:15] oh I see, you just meant "more of the sort of thing I have been doing" [04:32:25] not "way more intense!!!!" (Mountain Dew explosion) [04:32:27] yeah, that [04:32:43] * sumanah snowboards off a volcano [04:32:50] I would be shocked if it were way more intense. Like you said, the difference between "nothing" and "a little" [04:33:03] * fhocutt2 snowboards off a leetle volcano [04:33:07] * sumanah laughs [04:33:32] OK. So, about how long did it take you to read that book chapter? [04:33:38] I know you kind of mainline text [04:33:53] a few hours, I think, for the first two chapters [04:34:12] with some notes [04:34:40] though it was late and I don't really remember [04:35:08] (this was after I flailed my way into installing pip on windows...) [04:37:26] fhocutt2: omg you're on Windows? crap I forgot or did not know [04:37:34] on my netbook I am. :P [04:37:46] on the immobile laptop I'm on ubuntu [04:38:08] I'll be back on ubuntu once I make the ubuntu boot stop its kernel panicking [04:38:22] it froze during installing upgrades. :((( [04:39:03] thing to do during community integration: figure out my computer situation. [04:41:42] ok, so fhocutt2 let's assume that you have about 1.5 days per week between now and May 19 [04:41:53] 03(mod) Rename extension to "Hovercards" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62769 +comment (10psaxena) [04:41:59] ok [04:43:13] 8 weeks, 1.5 days per week, that's 12 days. You agree with my approximation? [04:43:24] yes. [04:44:35] So, fhocutt2 I think that you should assume 2-3 days of computer fiddling -- setting up a text editor you like, getting various languages installed on your computer(s), getting interpreters or compilers set up, installing git [04:45:00] that sounds reasonable [04:45:58] I think I'll just pick languages starting out. [04:46:13] Perl, Python, JS, Ruby, one other? [04:46:23] fhocutt2: and then about 9 days of learning more things you can do with the MediaWiki API, communicating with your mentors, and submitting your first pull request to a git repository [04:46:35] sumanah, oh, its just nicer than the standard interface for uploading images, and guides the user through the process. my ideal option would be to upload directly to the page in visualeditor but I don't think thats possible [04:46:57] and generally figuring out the mediawiki workflow--I don't have much of a handle on that yet [04:46:57] fhocutt2: Java should probably be that last one. [04:47:06] sounds like a plan. [04:47:24] OK, cool [04:47:59] coming up with mini-projects to use the API for would help me learn, I'll think about that [04:48:09] if you have any ideas that would also be helpful [04:48:28] Cool, I'll keep my eye out - for now, simply saying in the proposal that you will have miniprojects will be good [04:48:37] ok [04:49:09] fhocutt2: here are some past OPW proposals that were accepted: [04:49:10] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Mitevam/OPW [04:49:17] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Sucheta_Ghoshal/OPW-EtherEditor [04:49:29] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Valeriej/OPW/Project [04:49:45] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Rachel99/OPW_proposal [04:50:07] (in some cases people added their "what I did this month" statuses directly at the end of their proposal pages, but that came AFTER the application was accepted) [04:50:46] useful, thanks [04:51:10] I'm sort of stuck on where I'd be sharing my work/status updates [04:51:12] and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women/Round_7 as well [04:51:32] fhocutt2: I think it's ok to just create a "current status" subsection of your userpage and do it there [04:51:37] User:Fhocutt#Status [04:51:43] ok, good. [04:51:58] how about sharing code and stuff? The paste page, or is there something else? [04:52:04] bugs obviously go to bugzilla [04:52:16] oh, and on git, I suppose? [04:52:37] git/gerrit? I'm not clear on the difference yet [04:52:50] fhocutt2: Ah I see. Well, if you are simply sharing snippets of "here's how you make Library X do foo" then I think it's fine to have it in the documentation onwiki (or to submit pull requests to the README of the library itself, suggesting a change in the docs) [04:53:30] fhocutt2: a pastebin is good for little ephemeral things like just now, trying to debug something with an IRC pal. [04:53:34] hm, ok [04:54:31] Git is a distributed source control system. Gerrit is a code review application. Different organizations use git with different *code review applications* -- one popular one is Review Board, and another is Phabricator [04:54:52] We at WMF use Gerrit for most of our work, such as the core of MediaWiki. [04:54:56] so onwiki documentation as more subpages of API:Client_Code, or my project page, or something like that? [04:55:02] ok, that makes sense [04:56:18] fhocutt2: As you see at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code the client libraries, which are maintained by a zillion different people, are also in various different places. Some are on GitHub, some are other places [04:57:08] * fhocutt2 nods [04:57:11] sorry for the obvious (possibly obvious): GitHub is a site that both hosts people's git repositories, and provides a UI to view them and do code review via pull request comments and similar [04:57:36] so GH is basically the git code review system? [04:57:41] We at WMF, in contrast, use Gerrit for *code review* but something else for web-browsing the source control [04:57:50] ok. [04:58:15] fhocutt2: GitHub is a code review system many people use, but it's not the main one MediaWiki developers use. [04:58:58] er, right. ok. [04:59:06] We at WMF host our own source at https://git.wikimedia.org/ and use the open source GitBlit webapp to let you browse it. [04:59:53] I see . [05:00:27] sumanah is right, but it's important to add that our code is also mirrored to github, so it's totally browsable there, too [05:00:33] This is true! [05:00:47] I'm a lot more familiar with that interface. [05:01:43] https://github.com/wikimedia [05:02:05] sumanah: do I need to have more specific milestones/deliverables? [05:02:41] afaik github won't let you nest names more than one-level deep, so something like mediawiki/extensions/Wikidata gets mapped to 'mediawiki-extensions-Wikidata' on GitHub [05:02:47] fhocutt2: So, when you submit improvements to the docs of the various client libraries, generally you will be interfacing with them *on their sites* which might be mediawiki.org, might be https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/libs/libmediawiki , code.google.com.... [05:03:23] 03(mod) Make Devanagari Transliteration as the default input method for sa.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62145 +comment (10Runa Bhattacharjee) [05:03:25] fhocutt2: I think it would be good to try to have some milestones, yes -- and do you feel like you know (at least in general) what the deliverables should be? [05:03:26] and it's all public, so I can link it back to my updates section? [05:06:06] fhocutt2: Sorry, could you say that again? I think I lost track of context here. [05:06:19] the improvements on the various client libraries [05:07:12] In general: find the MediaWiki API client libraries available in those 5 languages. Evaluate them on functionality, up-to-date-ness, usability, presence/quality of documentation, level of abstraction, and any other relevant criteria, and pick the best one(s). Document, document, document (my testing) and submit helpful things to the libraries. [05:07:19] ah yes. Yes, the improvements you suggest to the various client libraries' documentation, the bugs you report, and the patches you write to improve the libraries themselves -- everything will be public and you can link to it from your Status section [05:08:00] Once I'm done with that, choose a project to make more in-depth contributions to: bug reports, bugfixes, and improved documentation. Especially improved documentation. [05:08:04] 03(mod) Make Devanagari Transliteration as the default input method for sa.wikipedia - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62145 +comment (10Runa Bhattacharjee) [05:08:59] sumanah: I'm not sure of the timing for those, but I think those are my deliverables. [05:09:26] I've seen references to weekly reports--where do those go? Also on my update page? [05:09:42] fhocutt2: Cool, I think those are basically your deliverables, except for a couple nuances [05:10:01] fhocutt2: could you point to where you've seen the weekly report suggestion? I believe we do them monthly although I could be wrong [05:10:32] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Lessons_learned [05:11:46] fhocutt2: I think your update page/section will be fine. And your weekly report will probably be, like, a paragraph long. [05:12:08] ok, good. [05:12:34] fhocutt2: So, the nuances [05:12:53] fhocutt2: I think selecting the best in each lang will be easy [05:13:00] and then the eval will take a bit of time [05:13:09] and what you are delivering is sort of a TODO for each of those libraries [05:13:31] how do I select the best without evaluating them? [05:14:01] fhocutt2: ah, ok. So I should revise my statement [05:14:05] and be clearer [05:14:35] I think that a SUPER QUICK evaluation - like, 1 hour, total, per language - will be good enough to show you which is clearly the best for most languages [05:15:05] (which is clearly the best library, I mean) [05:15:17] because most libraries will be unmaintained [05:15:28] oh, ok. [05:15:37] so there are only so many to choose from in reality. [05:16:04] I think so. [05:16:14] Think of when you looked at the Python libraries. Weren't most unmaintained? [05:16:35] the simple ones, yeah [05:16:47] I don't remember on the more complex ones [05:17:30] OK. So, "not maintained" is 1 failure state [05:17:40] "absolutely no documentation at all" is another [05:18:19] right. [05:18:47] (or "list of methods"...) [05:19:41] So, basically, what I am saying is, a preliminary analysis will (in many cases) be able to eliminate most of the candidates. [05:19:44] Which saves you time. [05:19:48] true. [05:20:34] I still feel like an hour may be overoptimistic, but I am also possibly overthinking things. [05:20:56] OK, yeah, 1 hr is optimistic. A day maybe. [05:21:02] that, sure. [05:21:23] 03(mod) Rename extension to "Hovercards" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62769 +comment (10psaxena) [05:21:48] any more nuance? [05:22:39] I think the "helpful things" you submit to the libraries will include documentation of your testing, yes (your lab notebook), and praise for where they get things right, and better documentation for them if you happen to write it along the way while evaluating, and bug reports for things they need to improve [05:23:06] "choose a project to make more in-depth contributions to: bug reports, bugfixes, and improved documentation. Especially improved documentation." I would actually put the emphasis on the bugfixes personally [05:23:30] * fhocutt2 nods [05:24:57] ok fhocutt2 do you feel like you have enough to go on to start writing? please feel free to look at the other past proposals I linked to get a sense of wordcount [05:25:18] I do! Thank you very much. [05:25:26] Sweet [05:25:30] this is feeling doable. [05:25:43] OK, I'll be around for 30 min more I think, say my name if you have a question? [05:25:51] will do, thanks. [05:27:44] 03(mod) CirrusSearch should embed performance data in the page output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62768 (10Gerrit Notification Bot) [05:27:45] 03(mod) CirrusSearch should embed performance data in the page output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62768 +comment (10gerritadmin) [05:27:47] 03(mod) CirrusSearch should embed performance data in the page output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62768 +comment (10gerritadmin) [05:27:50] 03(mod) CirrusSearch should embed performance data in the page output - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62768 +comment (10gerritadmin) [05:28:48] 03(mod) Rename extension to "Hovercards" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62769 +comment (10gerritadmin) [05:28:50] 03(mod) Rename extension to "Hovercards" - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62769 (10Gerrit Notification Bot) [05:41:38]