[00:00:20] ssquma: if you go to Special:Version , does it list "Gadgets"? [00:01:41] ssquma: If you go to a page where you would expect the ref-toolbar, and you watch the javascript console, do you see any errors? [00:02:23] lbenedix: Yeah, it's silly to have a "pages": {} thing when there is only one page [00:02:26] 03(mod) SVG images should be allowed to scale up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62751 +comment (10gerritadmin) [00:02:27] But alas [00:02:58] lbenedix: You can do it with multiple requests, I guess, or not at all [00:03:58] rdwrer: I'd like to query ~150.000 pages [00:04:52] I assume that's "one hundred and fifty thousand" [00:05:02] right [00:05:05] In which case I'm sorry for your predicament :( [00:05:14] lbenedix: It'll be a long-running bot, but it'll have to be [00:05:50] lbenedix: Depending on your needs, you may also want to ask for access to a database dump and run the queries that way [00:05:54] Er, not ask. [00:05:55] Get. [00:07:59] 03(mod) SVG images should be allowed to scale up - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62751 (10C. Scott Ananian) [00:09:34] 03(mod) Provide a way for Javascript code to know whether the current page is managed by the Translate extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/61331 +comment (10gerritadmin) [00:11:21] 03(NEW) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 normal; MediaWiki: Skin and page rendering; () [00:11:30] I thought about the dumps but I'm interested in a very limited timeframe and set of pages [00:11:45] 03(mod) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 +comment (10vbamba) [00:12:19] 03(mod) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 +comment (10vbamba) [00:16:31] 03(mod) Vector: The version of the Vector extension bundled with MediaWiki 1.21 is incompatible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49228 +comment (10mah) [00:29:27] hello fhocutt1 fhocutt_ I have returned! [00:29:37] Skud! Good to see you! [00:29:39] hello sumanah! [00:30:16] fhocutt1: do your 2 IRC identities reflect a troubling double consciousness, a la W.E.B. Du Bois? [00:30:26] * sumanah jests [00:30:28] * fhocutt1 grins [00:30:43] it's possible that one of them is my evil twin. [00:31:16] you could knit a goatee to wear when you are the Evil Frances from the Mirror Universe [00:31:43] mmm. Mascara also works well for that. [00:32:19] kunalg: Hi! Have Niklas and Robin already given you feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Kunalgrover05/GSoc_Proposal#Mentors ? [00:32:22] sumanah: o hai! [00:32:41] Skud: have you met Frances Hocutt? fhocutt1 is applying for an OPW internship with me as her mentor. [00:32:46] sumanah: i'm actually doing some mediawiki work and wanted to talk to some folks about internationalisation strategies. not sure who to talk to tbh. [00:32:51] Okay in JS, if I wanted to check for a user group in the following code, instead of what page it is on, what would I need to change? [00:32:53] if ( wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Project' && wgTitle == 'Sandbox' ) { [00:33:04] sumanah: i think fhocutt1 and i know each other on twitter but i'm not sure we've met in person [00:33:28] fhocutt1: Maybe you've heard of Skud? Growstuff, used to do structured data Wikipedia stuff.... etc etc etc GF open stuff etc [00:33:28] skud: we have not, but I hope to someday :) [00:33:36] oh ok [00:33:47] sumanah: apparently i'm still doing structured data stuff (well on other wikis) [00:33:53] also wrote a really great post on knitting and programming [00:33:59] sumanah: can i braindump my current project at you and can you give me pointers? [00:34:02] Skud: so, santhosh_ and Nikerabbit and liangent are some of the i18n experts around here [00:34:06] Skud: Happy to try! [00:34:13] ok so i'm doing some work on appropedia.org [00:34:21] * sumanah clicks [00:34:23] it's a wiki of sustainability stuff [00:34:25] NEAT [00:34:36] they are merging with ekopedia.org [00:34:48] oh that latter one looks real nice [00:34:55] ekopedia is mostly in french (fr.ekopedia.org) and also some other languages. appropedia is mostly in english. [00:35:05] we're having some discussion about the best way to import the ekopedia stuff. options include: [00:35:20] 1) take the wikipedia approach of lang.appropedia.org eg. fr.appropedia.org [00:35:36] Is anyone on that can help me with editing one line of Java? [00:35:38] 2) use wiki namespaces eg. Fr:Whatever [00:35:49] 3) shove it all into the Main: namespace [00:36:04] you might think that option 3 is ridiculous and wrong, but the one interesting factor is that this is semantic mediawiki [00:36:05] * rdwrer is helping Aurora_Grimes in -dev, if you want to talk to them please join there. [00:36:24] so we can for instance put a lang=fr metadata tag on the page [00:37:12] and i'm wondering whether anyone's done that before or whether there's any discussion around whether subdomains are still the way to go on this stuff or whether anyone's doing it differently/would do it differently if they were starting something new today [00:38:13] the other thing to note here is that appropedia has a different kind of audience from WP, in that they all have a very international mindset, many of them work in other countries (eg. doing development work), etc [00:38:19] Skud: I would ask the smw people about that approach [00:38:21] Amgine: ashley: btw you might have opinions here as people who have run non-WMF MediaWiki installations [00:38:28] hexmode: yeah i'll be doing that too [00:38:47] Skud: 2 -- namespaces. ugh [00:39:05] yeah tbh we were just thinking that for completeness [00:39:34] so, unless smw say that works, 1 :) [00:39:34] something i'm considering is suggesting using SMW to take language on pages, and then to write an extension to put a little flag symbol next to links within the wiki if a page is in another language [00:39:35] Skud: have you looked at any other multilanguage MediaWiki installs outside WM stuff? [00:39:35] [00:39:41] * hexmode casts his vote [00:39:50] sumanah: no, interested in suggestions of things to look at/people to talk to [00:39:56] Right. Lemme think/skim [00:41:31] Skud: there are a couple of different models for multi-lingual wikis using Mediawiki. For example, commons.wikimedia.org uses page translations and templates which load the user's prefered language. [00:41:47] BTW Skud have you looked at how Commons or Wikidata, which are multilingual, handle this stuff? Commons is just one site, no subdomains, ..... ah, Amgine beat me to it [00:42:01] here's an example semantic appropedia page about medical devices: http://www.appropedia.org/Special:BrowseData/Medical_Devices?_single= ... imagine you were looking for info on stuff related to tuberculosis, to use in some developing country or whatever. my gut feeling is that you'd want everything in every language and you'd deal with translation as needed. rather than just wanting the stuff in english. [00:42:24] sumanah: i imagine i could talk to denny about wikidata and also SMW approaches [00:42:32] he's on my list of people to talk to :) [00:42:36] Cool :) [00:42:59] but commons is doing that for interface, right, not content... and Skud wants content iiuc [00:42:59] he's working in my old metaweb group at google now [00:43:19] yeah interface isn't an issue. we have stuff that internationalises interface based on user prefs. [00:43:22] we're talking content. [00:43:53] The model uses subpages, for example Title/en, and Title/fr. [00:44:06] Yaron: Hey, Skud here is a MediaWiki administrator who's using SMW and who is interested in models for multilingual wikis, in case you can recommend specific SMW-using multilingual wikis to her: [00:44:08] something i'm considering is suggesting using SMW to take language on pages, and then to write an extension to put a little flag symbol next to links within the wiki if a page is in another language [00:44:40] yeah, ask yaron++ :) [00:44:52] There is a template which also displays the languages the page is available in. [00:44:53] sumanah: cool; I'll talk to them on the #semantic-mediawiki channel. [00:45:02] ...he/she is there now. [00:45:13] Cool. [00:45:16] heh :) [00:45:21] thanks yaron [00:46:58] Skud: You probably already know the argument that one shouldn't use flag symbols to indicate language, so I won't belabor it unless you want me to :) [00:47:24] yeah i know. *handwaves* [00:47:29] it might be a hover thing or something [00:47:37] sumanah: Hah, that reminds me of a company that chose to use the Canadian flag next to the English button in their language selection interface. :P [00:47:46] I kind of love that ;-) [00:48:12] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Header [00:48:18] Yeah, it illustrated the point quite well I think. I guess they were using some pre-packaged installer and were forced to specify a flag. [00:48:22] It was some game developer. I forget who now... [00:48:35] It was Bioware! [00:48:49] Wonderful, since Canada is bilingual... [00:48:57] http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/57224/why-do-bioware-think-im-canadian [00:49:29] Skud: I will skim the mediawiki-l archives for you to see whether there are some case studies relevant to your question [00:49:31] English! (canadian flag) French (canadian flag)... [00:51:14] btw Skud do you know about the MediaWiki Language Extension Bundle? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MLEB [00:52:38] sumanah: i do now, thanks! [00:53:33] Skud: perhaps also worth skimming these mediawiki-l conversations http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/270575 and (much older) http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/94917 [01:02:55] fhocutt1: hey, you wanna hit Save or Submit on the improvements to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code/Access_Library_Comparison so far, so I can take a look? [01:03:32] I've been working on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Fhocutt#Resources for the last while [01:04:36] Cool fhocutt1! nitpick - "API:Client_code". One trick I use to avoid those kind of underscores is to go to that page and copy the page title *from the page* instead of from my URL bar [01:04:59] the link to the pastebin - good idea :) [01:05:25] ah, yes [01:05:33] refresh, there's more now [01:05:36] and I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing your preferred learning style https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Evaluating_and_Improving_MediaWiki_web_API_client_libraries#Any_other_info [01:05:54] * sumanah laughs at "NOT on my bot's talk page...." [01:05:56] (fixing that redlink, one sec) [01:07:12] sumanah: resolution: it looks like Extension:Translate would be a great solution for us. there are some rough spots with how it interacts with SMW but still looks like the best option. [01:08:00] Fantastic! [01:08:45] Skud: I look forward to seeing how it works out for you (or hearing if it does not) [01:09:34] sumanah :I figure that the more people know how I work, the better my working relationships are likely to be [01:10:03] Sounds good to me! [01:10:48] I'm not sure why my link to Manual:Coding conventions/Python is not working, because I copied the title from that page! [01:10:52] feel free to blog it as well btw fhocutt1 so it's someplace you can refer to more easily years in the future [01:11:10] I'll be moving more over to my blog once I'm done applying here [01:11:29] fhocutt1: hmmm! lowercase c perhaps? [01:11:52] [[Manual:Coding conventions/Python]] should work [01:12:32] yup fhocutt1 - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox [01:12:39] there we go. [01:14:26] also fhocutt1 congrats on getting the petition approved so you'll have an MS in June! [01:14:28] I'll add more resources as I work on writing up the microtask (the pip installation directions, at least) but I think that's about it for now [01:14:33] thank you! :D [01:15:08] MS/MS is both my grad degrees and an instrumental technique I used during one of them. [01:15:27] 8 [01:15:31] oops [01:15:34] OMG right, I see now https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Evaluating_and_Improving_MediaWiki_web_API_client_libraries#About_you [01:16:10] Frances, in my family we have a sort of joke that you append the letters of your degree to your first name, because of a spam subject line we got "Put mba after your name" [01:16:11] I'm going to grab some food and be back in ~30-40 min, will work on improving the microtask then [01:16:29] so you are Francesbsmsms - hard to say, cool to be [01:16:40] cool fhocutt1, see ya later [01:16:42] sumanah: Frances*mumblemumble* [01:16:54] later, sumanah [01:18:11] Anyone willing to tell me why this isn't working from looking at it http://swc-chiss.com/library/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Vector.js [01:27:39] Aurora_Grimes: is it not working at all? [01:31:28] Yaron: It worked before I added in the information to call usergroups, (The call for adds) but now its not working at all. [01:32:34] Sorry, I don't understand... can you link to the last version that worked? [01:33:34] yeah, one sec [01:34:04] forget the comments, they are wrong [01:34:07] http://swc-chiss.com/library/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Vector.js&oldid=2840 [01:34:37] but that code was working to do what I wanted (except filtering out the users that can see it) [01:35:01] I want to change that to check for the usergroups and only display to the appropriate usergroups. [01:36:16] Newer versions of MediaWiki have per-user group JS/CSS files. [01:36:53] That's true. [01:37:04] That's the cleaner solution. [01:38:02] Aurora_Grimes: yes, you should use per-group JS. [01:38:35] Give me a sec and I'll send you guys a jsfiddle explaining in more detail what I want to do, and the code that needs to be altered, and can you guys explain it when I get back? [01:40:00] http://jsfiddle.net/ZC7z9/2/ [01:40:13] here you guys go, brb, work calls for 5-10 minutes [01:50:57] Sorry Yaron Gloria, I am back [01:51:32] Gloria: Anyway you can help me? [01:59:30] Aurora_Grimes: Hi. [01:59:45] I was saying that in newer versions of MediaWiki, there's per-user group CSS/JS pages. [01:59:48] I believe. [01:59:58] It's something like... MediaWiki:Group-user.js [02:00:16] Aurora_Grimes apparently figured it out. [02:00:17] gj! [02:00:33] But per-user group pages only make sense in some contexts. [02:00:40] I'm not sure what you're working on. [02:13:20] Gloria here is my code and project summary http://jsfiddle.net/ZC7z9/2/ [02:13:53] THe only other alteration I want to make for it is I'm still looking for a way to display them as tabs in the vector skin, rather than as dropdown like the code is set. [02:14:14] but the per usergroup thing works right. [02:14:43] Just trying to figure out how to edit my code to make a tab next to talk, instead of as a point to the drop down :/ [02:14:47] Know of any way? [02:32:49] wow, the Collection extension is really really broken and help is really hard to find :-/ [02:34:34] hey Skud - you are right :( [02:36:02] this is my current problem (see bottom of thread where i posted) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mwlib/RQ7lrZBep60 [02:37:01] 03(mod) Vector: The version of the Vector extension bundled with MediaWiki 1.21 is incompatible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49228 +comment (10mah) [02:37:09] unfortunately my PHP-fu is not strong nor do i have the faintest idea what is going on in this code so i can only really guess at what might be needed [02:39:00] Skud: so I can't remember right now how the Collection extension interacts with PDF stuff -- it's supposed to straight-up create & render the PDF? [02:39:19] it uses a remote PDF generator that pediapress.org provide [02:39:34] I remember some folks were working on an improved PDF rendered that IIRC does not depend on pediapress - http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/427782 has some more, am digging [02:39:54] oh, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/427778 says: [02:39:55] > The easiest way to test locally at the moment is to use the standalone [02:39:55] > 'mw-ocg-bundler' and 'mw-ocg-latexer' node packages. There are good [02:39:55] > installation instructions in the READMEs, see: [02:39:55] > [02:39:55] > https://npmjs.org/package/mw-ocg-bundler [02:39:57] > https://npmjs.org/package/mw-ocg-latexer [02:39:59] > [02:40:34] hmmm so basically Collection is deprecated? [02:41:47] I think it will be deprecated once the other thing is finished [02:41:52] I think that's still being worked on though [02:42:45] oh hey RoanKattouw how's it going? [02:43:06] * SamB makes a silly joke about implementing wikitext in TeX macros ... [02:43:34] hmm [02:43:42] not sure we're ready to use the new thing if it's not finished yet [02:44:05] 03(mod) Implement MediaWiki Help Repository (fetching Help: pages from MediaWiki.org or Meta, similar to file description pages from Commons) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/12306 +comment (10wikimedia) [02:44:24] also i'm a bit bewildered as to how this is suddenly all "npm install blah..." but i don't see any actual mediawiki extension here [02:44:39] ok, I just asked for more details on our dev list http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-March/075339.html [02:45:45] Skud: That's because the new PDF thing is actually a nodejs service, with an MW wrapper that basically just calls it (and does some MW-related bookkeeping) [02:45:48] thanks sumanah :) [02:46:08] :) [02:46:16] RoanKattouw: well yeah... but i'm wondering how it hooks into our MW install? [02:46:51] like, i fully understand that the node service is what generates the PDF... but how do you access it from teh web frontend of your own wiki? [02:48:16] anyway it's probably sunk costs fallacy but i've spent 1.5 hours already today just getting Collections to not crash out on me, and it's generating PDFs, so I kinda want to just take it that one step further and make the PDFs actually ahve content in them. rather than starting from scratch with a not-ready-yet alternative. [02:48:33] especially since they need books quite urgently (in the next week) [02:49:51] fhocutt: fhocutt_ - how's it going? I am headed to bed soon [02:52:52] Skud: Somewhere there should be an MW extension that integrates with it [02:53:24] Like, you install the node service somewhere, then you install this MW extension and set its configuration to point to where the node service is, and then the extension will glue it all together [02:54:32] yeah, but i can't find any links to that. [02:54:52] There's a #mediawiki-pdfhack channel, I think. [02:55:08] If you have a bit of time, you can poke people in there for docs. :-) [02:55:31] RoanKattouw: oh! i think it hooks into Collection? based on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/PDF_rendering [02:55:59] 03(mod) Provide a way for Javascript code to know whether the current page is managed by the Translate extension - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/61331 +comment (10James Forrester) [02:56:00] ok then. [02:56:06] Maaaybe? [02:56:18] Skud: Yes. [02:56:22] I don't know, what you're hearing from me is essentially water cooler gossip [02:56:31] yeah that's listed as a requirement. and something in that email thread implied that the new PDF rendering link would show up next to the existing one from Collection. [02:56:35] 03(mod) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 +comment (10jrobson) [02:56:36] 03(NEW) VisualEditor: setResizableHandlesSizeAndPosition() shouldn't measure things on every keypress - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62812 normal; VisualEditor: ContentEditable; () [02:56:37] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Performance issues (tracker) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49685 (10Roan Kattouw) [02:56:44] Skud: But there's a reason we threw everything away and started from scratch to make a nodejs service, and it's not because we're keen on nodejs. :-) [02:57:14] ok in that case, i'm gonna have some lunch and then try it. [02:57:26] Skud: Sorry. :-) [03:03:42] sumanah: sorry, missed that [03:03:49] it's loud here. [03:04:06] fhocutt: exciting! :-) I'm finishing up an email right now, headed to bed in a few min [03:05:00] Putting more on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Fhocutt#Status [03:05:21] and will expand on the Stuff I Did as applicable [03:11:52] fhocutt: cool, thank you [03:12:18] I figure tomorrow I'll see an expansion of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code/Access_Library_Comparison with the samples of the code you tried to run? [03:16:40] yes. [03:19:26] 03(mod) Create TODO list for best MediaWiki API client library in Perl - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62808 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:19:42] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:19:42] 03(mod) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:19:48] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:07] 03(mod) Create TODO list for best MediaWiki API client library in Python - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62809 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:07] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:08] 03(mod) Create TODO list for best MediaWiki API client library in JavaScript - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62807 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:27] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:27] 03(mod) Create TODO list for best MediaWiki API client library in Ruby - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62810 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:28] 03(mod) Create TODO list for best MediaWiki API client library in Java - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62806 normal->15enhancement (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:28] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:20:44] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:21:52] sumanah: I'm writing up my done-list and I'll be expanding on points there [03:22:00] fhocutt: cool [03:25:15] 03(mod) Wikipedia Content has no format on twitter - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62811 15enhancement->normal (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:25:30] 03(mod) Documentation is out of date, incomplete (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/1 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) [03:27:46] Hmmm. [03:28:12] Is wikibugs odd? [03:30:16] see ya later fhocutt! [03:40:53] 03(mod) Unify Tools private package repository and labsdebrepo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60925 +comment (10gerritadmin) [03:41:08] 03(mod) Unify Tools private package repository and labsdebrepo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60925 (10Gerrit Notification Bot) [03:48:28] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Disable veaction=edit on translation pages, which are not editable directly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/50284 +comment (10gerritadmin) [03:48:42] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Disable veaction=edit on translation pages, which are not editable directly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/50284 (10Gerrit Notification Bot) [03:50:08] 03(mod) VisualEditor: Disable veaction=edit on translation pages, which are not editable directly - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/50284 (10James Forrester) [03:58:41] 03(NEW) VE toolbar doesn't stick to the top of the screen in iOS Chrome - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62813 normal; MobileFrontend: alpha; () [04:01:43] 03(mod) Unify Tools private package repository and labsdebrepo - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60925 +comment (10gerritadmin) [04:02:02] 03(mod) VisualEditor: setResizableHandlesSizeAndPosition() shouldn't measure things on every keypress - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62812 normal->15enhancement (10James Forrester) [04:02:02] 03(mod) Flow: garbled and generic "Internal error - {{SITENAME}}" for Flow error page titles - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62165 +comment (10gerritadmin) [04:03:27] 03(mod) VE toolbar doesn't stick to the top of the screen in iOS Chrome - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62813 +comment (10bingle-admin) [04:03:46] So uh [04:04:10] Can