[00:01:00] <Krenair>	 $wgAutopromote settings are used to set the autoconfirmed group requirements, Withoutaname 
[00:01:57] <Withoutaname>	 $wgAutopromote could be considered automatically implicit
[00:02:23] <Withoutaname>	 that's the only use case I see for adding/removing to the $wgImplicitGroups pool
[00:14:55] <Betacommand>	 Withoutaname: depends on if a wiki wants to re-define the user groups/permissions
[00:16:02] <Betacommand>	 Withoutaname: IE if a wiki wants to revoke all access to an account without deleting/locking it
[00:17:00] <Krenair>	 The French Wikipedia adds an 'autopatrolled' implicit group.
[00:18:30] <Krenair>	 Withoutaname, https://github.com/wikimedia/operations-mediawiki-config/blob/master/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#L9836
[00:19:49] <Withoutaname>	 it's also in groupoverrides
[00:22:20] <Withoutaname>	 the bug reports for it show discussion as an autopromote type of user group, which is odd
[00:22:21] <Skizzerz>	 $wgImplicitGroups is a config var mostly for the sake of extensions that want to add new implicit groups
[00:22:45] <Skizzerz>	 you could manually add groups to it, but I can't think of any reason offhand for why that would be benficial
[00:24:22] <Krenair>	 as I said, frwiki does it
[00:26:31] <Withoutaname>	 I think it's redundant to $wmgAutopromoteExtraGroups
[00:27:10] <Withoutaname>	 the only reason for adding/removing implicit groups would be for autopromote types of accounts
[00:28:03] <Withoutaname>	 so autopromote could be part of $wgImplicitGroups, and whatever's left could be removed as a config setting
[00:28:37] <Withoutaname>	 I see no good reason to touch $wgImplicitGroups otherwise
[00:30:12] <Withoutaname>	 Betacommand: how would they redefine user groups/permissions? Couldn't that happen with $wgGroupPermissions and $wgRevokePermissions
[00:31:08] <Betacommand>	 Withoutaname: its hard to revoke 'user' and then reuse it
[00:31:38] <Betacommand>	 IE say you have a limited access wiki
[00:32:49] <Betacommand>	 Withoutaname: I dont have the time to go into details, but trust me, people get really creative with that kind of thing and use it for stuff you wouldnt think of
[02:11:17] <Withoutaname>	 ^d: What do you think about https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14636
[02:11:38] <^d>	 Oh wow, old bug.
[02:12:34] <^d>	 What you wondering about it?
[02:14:28] <Withoutaname>	 thinking about doing the rewrite myself
[02:15:19] <^d>	 Well half of it is a good idea, the other half I was an idiot.
[02:15:25] <^d>	 Permissions are fine as is, don't touch that.
[02:15:31] <Withoutaname>	 ^d: what if all the user rights were columns and the users were rows
[02:15:47] <^d>	 Blocking should be per-permission based though still.
[02:16:16] <Withoutaname>	 blocking could be just switching the user right on or off, temporarily
[02:17:06] <Withoutaname>	 it could be a table, with all the user rights as columns and the user_ids as rows, and the values would be 0 or 1
[02:17:36] <Withoutaname>	 blocking would switch something to 0 temporarily
[02:24:19] <^d>	 Hmm
[02:27:08] <^d>	 Withoutaname: Maybe turn it into an RfC?
[02:51:52] <albertcoder>	 I wish to install the older version of mediawiki which is used by BRL-CAD i.e. 1.22.2. I had downloaded the tar file from here https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/ but when I untar this tar file using "tar xzvf" the following error is displayed: " gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file  tar: Unexpected EOF in archive  tar: Unexpected EOF in archive  tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now "
[03:17:15] <whym>	 is there any page describing browser support of MediaWiki?
[03:20:42] <whym>	 maybe this https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Compatibility/Software_for_using_MediaWiki is the closest one to what I want.
[03:20:59] <legoktm>	 yeah, but that isn't "official"
[03:22:05] <whym>	 at least it would help persuading people who requested support of IE6 and Netscape 6 on jawiki.
[03:22:30] <legoktm>	 is there a specific feature that isn't working in those browsers?
[03:23:30] <whym>	 legoktm: some tabs and other visual elements of Vector are apparently broken http://upup.bz/j/my54008JoEYtiKBtbojZor6.png http://upup.bz/j/my54010rXxYtvg1i9eqggQY.png
[03:25:03] <whym>	 legoktm: NS6 even crashes on login, reportedly.
[03:25:08] <legoktm>	 o.O
[03:25:09] <digimunk>	 I have MediaWiki installed to /var/lib/mediawiki and /usr/share/mediawiki. Both contain symlinks that point to the other. I want to use git for source control, but I've read that it doesn't follow symlinks. Should I consolidate the dirs and eliminate the symlinks? Is there some git voodoo for handling situations like this?
[03:25:40] <legoktm>	 you can file bugs for those, but I don't think they'll be high priority. If someone were to submit patches that fix those without degrading it for other browsers will always be accepted.
[03:27:06] <legoktm>	 bbl
[03:34:39] <jackmcbarn>	 digimunk: specifically what files do you have where?
[03:47:51] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: in /usr/share/mediawiki I have: api.php,img_auth.php,index.php,load.php,LocalSettings.php,opensearch_desc.php,profileinfo.php,redirect.php,redirect.phtml,thumb_handler.php,thumb.php,wiki.phtml
[03:49:19] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: in /var/lib/mediawiki I have the cache, config, and extensions dirs and a bunch of symlinks that point back to /usr/share/mediawiki
[03:51:52] <jackmcbarn>	 digimunk: why?
[03:54:53] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: installed it on wheezy using debian packages and followed all the directions I could find...I might have gone wrong somewhere, but I was thinking that I had a fairly standard installation
[03:55:22] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: I guess it's not standard, and I should consolidate dirs/start over so that it's all in one place so I can git it
[03:55:24] <jackmcbarn>	 we recommend you use the tarball or git rather than packages
[03:55:28] <legoktm>	 digimunk: we typically don't recommend using the distro packages to install mediawiki
[03:55:40] <legoktm>	 you're much better off just installing from a tarball
[03:56:39] <digimunk>	 okay, then I'll start over and install from the tarball and go from there
[03:56:42] <digimunk>	 thanks, guys!
[03:57:23] <jackmcbarn>	 i do wonder what sorts of drugs the distro packagers use
[03:57:54] <albertcoder>	 Please help me with the link to download mediawiki 1.22.2 if this link is not apt https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/ . I am having problem in untaring as explained above
[03:58:16] <jackmcbarn>	 https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/mediawiki-1.22.7.tar.gz
[03:58:20] <jackmcbarn>	 oh
[03:58:23] <jackmcbarn>	 https://releases.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/mediawiki-1.22.2.tar.gz
[03:59:30] <albertcoder>	  I think I too shared the same link. :)
[04:00:04] <albertcoder>	 okay let me download it again if the problems persists I will report back.
[04:00:47] <jackmcbarn>	 works fine for me. why are you using 1.22.2 and not 1.22.7 btw?
[04:01:32] <albertcoder>	 I have to make an extension for BRL-CAD and it uses 1.22.2
[04:03:05] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: I just untarred the tarball you pasted in the link for, and lo and behold - there's only one symlink, and it refers to a file in the same dir; this is so much better
[04:03:18] <legoktm>	 jackmcbarn: they're not on drugs, just that mediawiki really isn't designed to be packaged like that
[04:03:32] <jackmcbarn>	 legoktm: so why are they packaging it like that? why can't they put it all in one directory?
[04:03:52] <jackmcbarn>	 digimunk: did you get 1.22.2 or 1.22.7?
[04:04:29] <legoktm>	 jackmcbarn: dunno, I haven't looked at the debian one. the fedora one was pretty weird and I never actually got it to work
[04:04:43] <albertcoder>	 Well, Thanks a lot, there was an issue in downloading. :P
[04:05:16] <albertcoder>	 It has been untarred fine now. :) I can also see a patch file there. Do I have to apply it ?
[04:05:18] <legoktm>	 albertcoder: if your extension works with 1.22.2, it *should* work with 1.22.7
[04:05:28] <legoktm>	 I wouldn't use 1.22.2 since it has open security vulnerabilities
[04:06:21] <albertcoder>	 legoktm, Thanks a lot, then do you recommend me to use 1.22.7 for making an extension? 
[04:06:46] <legoktm>	 if you want to create an extension, you should use 1.23rc-2 since that should be released to stable next week
[04:06:54] <legoktm>	 (or whatever the latest RC is)
[04:08:41] <albertcoder>	 I am making this extension for my GSoC 2014 project. I do not wish to be trapped in any troubles regarding versions. :) Okay so should I use 1.23rc-2  for my project?  
[04:09:27] <legoktm>	 ohoh
[04:09:35] <legoktm>	 for GSoC, use the master branch
[04:10:08] <legoktm>	 (https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-core)
[04:11:02] <albertcoder>	 Is this the same version that is going to be released next week?
[04:11:21] <albertcoder>	  1.23rc-2?
[04:11:34] <jackmcbarn>	 no
[04:12:16] <albertcoder>	 So is there any specific reason to use this? 
[04:13:17] <legoktm>	 most extensions are typically developed along with core
[04:13:22] <legoktm>	 so if core changes, the extension is too
[04:17:27] <albertcoder>	 legoktm, Please elaborate. :) Do you mean my extension will change accordingly when the core is changed? 
[04:17:47] <legoktm>	 er, not literally
[04:17:57] <legoktm>	 so
[04:17:58] <legoktm>	 https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-MassMessage
[04:18:13] <legoktm>	 if you look at branches, there's one for REL1_22, and another for REL1_23
[04:18:23] <legoktm>	 1_22 is compatible with 1.22, and 1_23 is compatible with 1.23
[04:19:17] <legoktm>	 really though, it just depends on who you expect to deploy the extension and what their plans are
[04:19:24] <legoktm>	 you should really discuss this with your mentors
[04:20:17] <albertcoder>	 Okay thanks a lot for your heed.  :)
[04:50:37] <digimunk>	 jackmcbarn: I just reinstalled, setup a repo, and pushed successfully; tarball vs. distro package for the win
[04:50:49] <legoktm>	 yay!
[08:02:16] <Withoutaname>	 can lua be documented with docstrings
[08:03:38] <Amir1>	 hi, I want to move Manual:Pywikibot and It all subpages to Pywikibot (main namesapce), I brought this up in the mailing list less than one week ago, and now I'm bringing up here in order to be sure
[08:04:59] <Withoutaname>	 Amirl: will it be like Pywikibot:Config.py or Pywikibot/Config.py
[08:05:15] <Withoutaname>	 the first needs a namespace change
[08:05:36] <Amir1>	 the latter
[08:05:46] <Amir1>	 I know
[08:06:28] <Withoutaname>	 do you have a link to the announcement
[08:06:37] <Amir1>	 mailing list
[08:06:42] <Amir1>	 mediawiki-l 
[08:06:53] <Amir1>	 and pywikipedia-l
[08:08:53] <Withoutaname>	 do you think you could have a bot fix all backlinks/redirects/etc point to the new page once you're done
[08:09:06] <Amir1>	 yes
[08:09:11] <Amir1>	 I'm a bot operator
[08:27:46] <Nemo_bis>	 IRC is less visible than mailing list, it doesn't add anything to the discussion you already opened :)
[08:28:05] <Nemo_bis>	 Amir1: if you want a confirmation you should ask on Project:Current_issues
[08:28:29] <Amir1>	 Hi Nemo_bis 
[08:28:46] <Nemo_bis>	 Hello :)
[08:29:18] <Amir1>	 Nemo_bis: I'll make an announcement there
[08:41:30] <Nemo_bis>	 oki
[08:58:21] <gleki>	 hello. is it possible to have two thumbnail images oriented horizontally on a page? "thumb|right" flag just makes them display one below the other.
[09:01:41] <Nemo_bis>	 gleki: you probably need a table or div, there are some examples on Meta help pages for image markup
[09:02:40] <gleki>	 thanks. another question. how to disable "magnify-clip" in thumbnails?
[09:03:07] <gleki>	 not globally, I mean but from e.g. templates
[09:03:58] <Nemo_bis>	 By not using |thumb? :) What are you using thumb for
[09:04:48] * Nemo_bis feels stupid, since when recursive protection is only available for full protection?
[09:06:14] <gleki>	 I'm trying to export a page to pdf with Collection and image gallery is not handled by it.
[09:06:48] <Nemo_bis>	 Yes, there is a bug for it
[09:07:12] <Nemo_bis>	 But you'd better test with the new PDF renderer https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/BugTriage-mwlib
[09:08:10] <gleki>	 unfortunately there is no clear instructions on how to install it.
[09:09:42] <Nemo_bis>	 Install? You're not talking of a Wikimedia project?
[09:10:20] <gleki>	 im talking about my own mediawiki installation
[09:11:10] <Nemo_bis>	 too bad
[09:11:29] <Nemo_bis>	 Anyway, the sooner you test it, the sooner it will do what you need
[09:57:36] <Nemo_bis>	 Ah it's indeed a recentish thing, only 2007 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/20461
[09:58:15] * Nemo_bis hopes the wikis he's sysop of don't discover his 2006y knowledge of sysop things
[10:16:21] <Nemo_bis>	 What could this mean? http://stats.grok.se/www.w/latest90/Special:MyLanguage/How_to_contribute
[10:19:13] <Vulpix>	 the drop in views? maybe a link to it has been removed from the UI somewhere
[10:19:35] <Vulpix>	 maybe a customization of enwiki pointing to the local wiki, or something like this
[10:21:03] <Nemo_bis>	 The link has not been removed from the footer in general, no idea about en.wiki
[10:21:36] <Nemo_bis>	 There were some changes to the footer but they were about language used IIRC
[10:22:20] <Nemo_bis>	 Link is still there on en.wiki both logged in and logged out
[10:22:32] <Vulpix>	 maybe it now goes straight to How to contribute/{lang} instead of Special:MyLanguage
[10:22:55] <Vulpix>	 gtg, bye
[10:23:37] <Nemo_bis>	 No it doesn't and I had already checked anyway
[10:24:23] <Nemo_bis>	 Maybe they removed it on mobile
[10:26:16] <Nemo_bis>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.23/wmf22
[10:28:35] <Nemo_bis>	 Well, of course one could blame typography refresh but that seems gratuitous
[11:36:48] <Nnemo_>	 Hello people
[11:37:03] <Nnemo_>	 There is a bug, Dave.
[11:38:07] <Nnemo_>	 Here https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%A9gorie:Chanson I click on the triangle of Chanson par artiste
[11:38:19] <Nnemo_>	 The sub-cats appear, but they stop at F
[11:38:26] <Nnemo_>	 Many sub-cats are missing
[11:48:15] <Nnemo_>	 It would be nice to fix this. Display all the sub-cats, or at least write "…" 
[11:48:20] <Nnemo_>	 thank you
[11:48:21] <Nnemo_>	 bye
[13:14:44] <Juandev>	 hi
[13:36:23] <ashley>	 @seen brion
[13:47:28] <zechfdf>	 hi world
[13:54:06] <Juandev>	 zechfdf: hi
[14:19:34] <Nemo_bis>	 Meh, we had about 20 devs doing CR or maintainers who had no editbugs... (Now they do.)
[14:21:27] <Krenair>	 Nemo_bis, I'm trying to work out how 'we had about 20 devs doing CR' and 'maintainers who had no editbugs... (Not they do.)' are related
[14:24:01] <Nemo_bis>	 about 20 (devs doing CR or maintainers) 
[14:28:23] <JeroenDeDauw>	 ^demon|away: thought about subtree splits of non-i18n code? Not sure this is viable for any part of core
[14:29:04] <JeroenDeDauw>	 ^demon|away: also, you made a typo. You wrote mediawiki.git instead of phase3.git
[16:01:44] <devunt>	 I removed my email from Extension page: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension%3AJosa&diff=1018054&oldid=959620 ,
[16:02:20] <devunt>	 but translated page's contents isn't changed: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Josa/ko
[16:02:38] <devunt>	 How can I apply changes to translated pages?
[16:03:31] <devunt>	 I'm new at this brand new translation system.
[16:13:52] <Nemo_bis>	 devunt: a translation admin will see it on Special:PageTranslation and update translation pages (depending on what needs doing)
[16:14:17] <Nemo_bis>	 (done)
[16:14:39] <Nemo_bis>	 Tutorial is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate/Page_translation_example
[16:26:01] <devunt>	 Nemo_bis, well email is remain on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Josa/ko ...
[17:08:53] <Nemo_bis>	 devunt: jobs sometimes fail, but in the end updates are applied
[20:21:46] <bdesmet>	 hi all
[20:22:01] <bdesmet>	 anyone an idea why I see the full link in stead of just 'file' with this code: [[File:Finance overview.ods|File]]  
[20:23:58] <Krenair>	 bdesmet, files and category link targets need to be prepended with ':'
[20:24:13] <Krenair>	 otherwise mediawiki tries to include the file or mark the page as part of the category
[20:25:48] <bdesmet>	 Krenair: ah ok, thx! it works now indeed :)
[21:33:40] <Nemo_bis>	 In case you lack ideas for a nicely sized 30 GB torrent to reseed: https://archive.org/details/wikia_dump_20140529
[21:43:46] <Amgine>	 <blinks>
[21:45:16] <Quasar`>	 changePassword.php is not working.
[21:45:26] <Quasar`>	 says it set the user's password, but he cannot login
[21:45:31] <Quasar`>	 keeps saying invalid password.
[21:46:53] <Amgine>	 Have you tested this yourself?
[21:47:22] <Quasar`>	 yes.
[21:47:37] <Quasar`>	 it will not accept anything I set the user's password to.
[21:48:07] <Quasar`>	 and because this database was created from a dump, he has no email set so I cannot use any other method
[21:48:07] <Reedy>	 Are you calling it correctly?
[21:49:28] <Quasar`>	 doomwiki@mancubus:~/mediawiki-1.22.5/maintenance$ php changePassword.php --user=Russell --password=<redacted>
[21:49:29] <Quasar`>	 Password set for Russell
[21:49:55] <Quasar`>	 site gives Login error
[21:49:55] <Quasar`>	 Incorrect password entered. Please try again. 
[21:53:00] <Quasar`>	 well it's working now. I guess it takes a mysterious amount of time to kick in.
[21:53:07] <Quasar`>	 never mind.
[21:54:21] <Reedy>	 I wonder if an invalidateCache call would be really needed
[21:54:52] <Quasar`>	 for what it's worth I used to have the same problem if I tried to use MySQL to give them an email address so they could set their own pw
[21:55:04] <Quasar`>	 I could query the db and see an email but the frontend would still say they had no email addy
[21:55:10] <Quasar`>	 though in that case it could last for days at a time
[21:55:23] <Quasar`>	 our caching config has changed since then however
[21:56:05] <Quasar`>	 the only thing that has ever worked reliably for me without this kind of problem was the PasswordReset (or is it ResetPassword) extension
[21:56:13] <Reedy>	 what caching do you have setup?
[21:56:23] <Quasar`>	 but as of MediaWiki 1.19 I think, that extension cannot be installed any more due to conflict with a new builtin page
[21:56:31] <Reedy>	 memcached or similar in front will mask changes like that directly to the database
[21:56:52] <Quasar`>	 hmm I'll have to check. My partner handles all the apache-related stuff
[21:56:58] <Reedy>	 https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Change_password
[21:57:15] <Quasar`>	 CACHE_ACCEL
[21:58:55] <Amgine>	 from [[Manual:ChangePassword.php]]: "This script may not work if you are using memcached on your MediaWiki installation. You can restart memcached to make it clear its cache and allow you to login again."
[21:59:18] <Reedy>	 srsly?
[21:59:37] <Reedy>	 It does the same as that wikitech page
[21:59:41] <Reedy>	 And I know that page works
[22:00:09] <Amgine>	 <shrug> just copy and pasteing!
[22:00:19] <Reedy>	 Amgine: An out of date wiki!?!?!
[22:00:29] <Amgine>	 Say it isn't so!
[22:01:52] <Quasar`>	 I don't think it's memcached, it's something like "APD" or some three letter initialism... wish I knew more, sorry
[22:02:04] <Quasar`>	 didn't set that part up
[22:02:34] <Amgine>	 I love this following troubleshooting text: "Windows has special challenges with parsing double-quoted strings, as when a username or password contains spaces in the second example above. You may find some illumination on this issue here (autohotkey.net)—or it might just make your brain hurt. "
[22:02:36] <Quasar`>	 but that's ok... I'll know to expect a delay in the future before they can sign in
[22:10:27] <Quasar`>	 kind of a shame this is only broken because of a page name conflict though -> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Password_Reset
[22:10:36] <Quasar`>	 that's what we used prior to upgrading
[22:12:13] <Quasar`>	 I'd volunteer and fix it if I didn't have my plate so full already