[00:14:14] Krenair: I'm not following you on that one. Do you mean that "(show.length !== 0)" should be replaced by "(!!show.length)" ? Seems to me like the double negation makes the code harder to read, not easier [00:15:29] I could just edit my fixes right into the nowiki version actually [00:16:37] Krenair: Ok, can see then [00:28:45] I really wish this stuff complied with our coding conventions [00:36:32] danmichaelo, I meant something like https://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-contribsrange.js&diff=13282041&oldid=13265237 [00:37:20] Actually you could just drop the if statement [00:38:09] true :) [00:38:11] danmichaelo, so https://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-contribsrange.js&diff=13282057&oldid=13265237 [00:38:40] Also, that header: [00:38:50] "** Needs 1.14 r42198+ for advanced continue." [00:38:51] :D [00:40:38] hehe [00:43:33] Krenair: haha [00:43:37] I remember the 40000s [00:43:40] That was a long time ago [00:46:11] danmichaelo, Krenair: can we just centralize the gadget on mw.o and have other wikis load it remotely? [00:46:13] I wish we had some kind of global gadget repo, with coding conventions and code review [00:46:22] heh [00:46:24] timing [00:46:30] Krenair: Gadgets 2.0! [00:46:47] heh. What happened to that proposal? [00:47:05] code is sitting in a branch in gerrit [00:47:32] it needs to be rebased, and then updated...it's pre 1.21 so it doesn't know about ContentHandler [00:47:48] DanielK_WMDE wrote ContentHandler [00:47:55] and it re-implemented parts of it inside the extension [00:47:56] DanielK_WMDE wrote Gadgets [00:47:59] Success! [00:48:19] So we blame DanielK_WMDE [00:48:23] :D [00:48:30] Or make him fix it ;) [00:48:35] Or both! [00:48:39] both [00:48:40] :P [00:48:44] danmichaelo: I gave you sysop on mw.o [00:49:25] legoktm: Wow, cool :) [00:50:44] if you could centralize the extension that would be great [00:51:43] er, gadget* [00:52:11] hehe, sure, will look into it [00:54:39] If you could make it comply with https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CC/JS that would be great :) [01:13:14] var y = parseInt(ucfrm.find('input[name="year"]').val(),10); [01:13:14] var m = parseInt(ucfrm.find('select[name="month"]').val(),10); [01:13:30] if (m == -1) { m = 12; y -= 1; } [01:13:36] var ld = new Date(y, m, 0); [01:13:36] if(y > 2000 && y < 2100) apiQuery.ucstart= ld.toISOString(); [01:13:38] what [01:21:16] guess it's a way to validate that it's something that looks like a year, but it's weird... [01:26:55] I'll have a new look at it tomorrow :) [02:19:28] hi. I'm using 1.23.1 and am trying to override CSS in Mediawiki:Common.css. I see the rules in Firefox's Style Editor dev tab but they're not taking effect. am I missing something? [02:25:32] try ctrl-f5 [02:25:40] if that doesn't work, then your issue is either with your selector [02:25:44] or with specificity [03:03:21] thanks, issue was with /* */ comments in Common.css [03:03:27] thought it had previously worked [03:03:37] maybe the minifier choked [03:04:39] oh charitwo's here [03:05:55] do i know you [03:09:14] i've seen you on gamerescape a few times, yes [03:10:22] yeah, i volunteer there [03:12:07] i mostly lurk around wiki farms. trying to find one where i'm actually accepted lol [03:12:48] en.uncyclopedia.co yo [03:13:02] we're not a wiki farm though [03:13:09] oh, you're in #Illogicopedia already :D [03:14:20] c: *wiki farms ---> the internet [03:14:40] legoktm: yeah i edit there a bit [07:27:46] Hi! With recent update of Google Chrome I started to receive "reference error" in parts of my javascript code where I compare a variable to undefined directly, without using typeof and 'undefined' as string. Can that be fixed or I should change to typeof var === 'undefined' everywhere (a lots of places)? [07:50:14] how can I find out what cache software is used by my mediawiki installation? [07:55:39] Sorry it was my fault, obj.prop === undefined works while typeof obj === 'undefined' is required to not have referencerrror. [07:56:03] mazza: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Quality_Assurance [07:56:26] Zaister: cache settings usually are defined in LocalSettings.php http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Cache [07:58:17] QuestPC: I know. My Wiki uses CACHE_ACCEL; the problem is: I've set up a new wiki, changed some stuff, notable the MediaWiki:Sidebar. The I decided to start over, and completely reinstalled the thing. Now it still shows the Sidebar from the Wiki I deleted, when i use CACHE_ACCEL. If I switch to CACHE_NONE, I get the correct defeault sidebar, but once I set CACHE_ACCEL again, the old one is back. [07:58:28] I need to find a way to clear this cache [08:00:10] ah it seems I got it [11:17:46] Please suggest a good way to edit wiki pages through extensions for mediawiki 1.15 (The WikiPage class is not available). Currently I'm trying to do it through the API. [12:00:00] akashagarwal: edit.php? [12:03:20] hi all, i want to align a paragraph of my note in wiki [12:03:24] how can i do that? [12:04:27] ?? [12:05:45] does any body can help me?? [12:07:32] please help [12:10:06] define note [12:10:31] what?? [12:10:44] nevermind [12:10:57] so how could i align? [12:14:03] Nemo_bis, thanks edit.php works for me :D. The old version of edit.php that i am using (for mediawiki 1.15) uses $wgArticle->doEdit . Is it a good practice to use $wgArticle->doEdit directly from my extension ? [12:22:39] akashagarwal: sounds very unlikely to be "good practice", but nothing is when you're 8 releases behind :) [13:09:57] YuviPanda: hey got a moment? [14:10:24] hi, i am trying to use ContactPage extension but on visiting Special:Contact , it shows no email address page, and i have used and confirmed my email, can anyone help? [14:15:39] hi, i am trying to use ContactPage extension but on visiting Special:Contact , it shows no email address page, and i have used and confirmed my email, can anyone help? [14:16:52] codebump: You don't need to repost your quesiton 5 minutes later [14:16:56] What version of MediaWiki? [14:17:00] What version of the extension? [14:17:18] sorry for that, its 2.4 [14:18:01] mediawiki - 2.4 and ContactPage - 2.2 [14:33:36] Hello. I'm installing mediawiki and get a notice 'Git version control software not found'. How mediawiki uses git and what would happen if I won't install it? [14:44:43] So, if I wanted to change an intern-- I mean user's default language or skin in javascript, whereabouts could I find out how to do that? [14:50:17] shvchk: How are you trying to install it? [14:51:06] Reedy, web installer mw-config/index.php [14:52:20] shvchk: You should be ok to ignore it [14:53:08] Reedy, ok, thanks, but how is it used by mediawiki? Articles' version control? [14:53:14] Nope [14:53:21] That's done in the database [14:53:55] I guess it's mostly because we use git for version control [14:54:02] Checking out extensions etc is probably easiest using git clone etc [14:54:09] So it's just useful to have around [14:54:43] ah, I see. Thanks again [15:04:30] Nevermind. I got it. Language bingo begins now! [15:40:15] hello all, I am trying to upload a file to https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and i can't find where I would do this [15:40:21] can anyone give me a pointer [15:40:35] hi mischat have you logged into that site? [15:40:40] yeah [15:40:43] and mischat have you confirmed your email address in your preferences? [15:40:46] this is making me feel pretty stpuid [15:40:48] sometimes that helps give you the relevant privileges [15:40:58] http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload [15:40:59] "where" is https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload [15:41:00] yeah [15:41:11] ninja'd [15:41:21] rarityfan: Jinx, you owe me a soda [15:41:24] mischat: I think the people who run that wiki may have thought that regular users would not want to upload files there [15:41:28] hrm [15:41:36] "The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Autoconfirmed users, Administrators, Confirmed users. " [15:41:44] I appear to have the privs to do so [15:41:45] i am guessing i class as a "confirmed user" [15:41:47] mischat: the Wikimania organizers may have assumed that people would upload any necessary files at Wikimedia Commons and then transclude/link them [15:41:54] ah [15:41:56] :) [15:41:57] * marktraceur is autoconfirmed [15:42:21] yeah, i thought something like that was going on [15:42:52] mischat: my sympathies on the stupid feeling - I feel like that frequently, when I'm like "why don't I understand how to do this" [15:43:21] http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140530234121/spongefan/images/0/07/Tumblr_mya70eCCPG1sfv62mo1_1280.png [15:43:50] mischat, autoconfirmed status happens automatically, there's usually account age and edit count requirements [15:44:26] thanks for th sympathies, I guess being stubborn kinda means that I was going to bash my head against the site till i figured it out. But yay to irc ! [15:44:56] ok [15:45:08] so the "Upload File" link has poped up now [15:45:48] I think in this case you need to have a 4 day old account [15:45:49] i wonder whether it was one of you helpful people (if so thanks!) or it was it a timer job [15:46:01] :) [15:46:03] :) [15:46:05] nope [15:46:13] you are right Krenair [15:46:19] :) [15:47:02] rarityfan: :/ [15:49:14] will someone be a star and upload this image for me http://mmt.me.uk/images/mischa.png I would like to use it on https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hello_world [15:49:18] please :) [15:51:13] mischat: What's the license for the photo? [15:51:21] :) [15:52:55] am guessing this http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ but have used such a non permissive license before, feels wrong, but right at the same time [15:53:12] oh and thanks Reedy [15:53:32] Hmm... NC... [15:54:56] mischat: Putting that page into the main namespace seems weird to me [15:55:14] Oh wait it's...never mind [15:55:17] I'm wrong [15:55:28] yeah, like i said, quite a lot of my photos and stuff on flickr i put up with attribution only, but not if they have pictures of people's faces in [15:56:00] wouldn't want to take a picture of someone i know (or don't know) and have that be used for commercial purposes, that seems like the wrong thing™ [15:57:23] * marktraceur doesn't see an obvious reason that would be wrong [15:58:29] not that anyone would want to use any of my rubbish photos ... [15:59:15] "Did you know that most cars are manufactured by CORPORATIONS??!?!?!" [15:59:28] marktraceur: behave [15:59:35] (as per usual, Portlandia says it best) [16:00:07] :) [16:00:13] Reedy any luck with that ? [16:03:22] mischat: I've not tried to upload it.. [16:03:30] :) [16:03:46] ah, fair enough :0 [16:03:51] You're User:mtuffield ? [16:03:55] yeah [16:04:21] bah, need to log in [16:04:40] yeah and http://mmt.me.uk is my domain fwiw [16:05:12] wow, i should update my website :) [16:05:47] you can fix the file description page when it's up ;) [16:06:40] my friend made this piece of shit website: http://exhilarationanimation.com [16:07:11] rarityfan: Off-topic? [16:07:37] * mischat will stop being so noisy too, apologies. [16:07:38] O.O [16:07:49] marktraceur: Semi. [16:08:19] mischat: You're fine [16:09:23] MatmaRex: hi, http://pastebin.com/14YYgcU8 [16:10:04] MatmaRex: what I did to migrate that skin yesterday. [16:10:17] :) thanks [16:13:15] mischat: https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mischa.png [16:13:29] You should improve the description page [16:15:47] ohai victor [16:29:16] i will do, and thanks Reedy [16:29:37] * mischat will get to it very shortly ... [16:30:14] Reedy: Are you opped for any particular reason? :/ [17:08:17] fhocutt: hi [17:08:28] hi sumanah [17:08:41] I am sorry, IRC weirdly disconnected and reconnected [17:08:45] thus my lateness [17:09:07] is ok! [17:09:12] well if anyone here is a fan of looney tunes, i made this wiki awhile ago that needs more activity: http://ltfandom.referata.com [17:09:27] fhocutt: how is Seattle? [17:09:36] cool and cloudy. [17:09:47] NYC is reasonably pleasant right now [17:10:01] nice. [17:10:18] fhocutt: so, what shall I look at now? Java stuff? :) [17:10:24] fhocutt: you should feel lucky you get that much rain. where i live, it's dry as a cactus [17:10:35] well, not that dry, but still [17:10:56] rarityfan, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't--grew up in coastal desert so the green is very odd! [17:11:27] lol don't you live in seattle, tho? [17:11:36] sumanah: let me see. Java is in progress [17:11:59] rarityfan, yes, and it took a while to get used to! [17:12:07] rarityfan: I think she's saying that she sometimes feels lucky, sometimes not :) [17:12:11] maybe I am wrong [17:12:17] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code/Evaluations/Java_Wiki_Bot_Framework_%28JWBF%29 [17:12:31] eeeeeeeee [17:12:35] * sumanah squees, clicks [17:12:50] am working on this--looked at the code last night, and can finish it up today [17:12:56] THE LAST EVAL (I think?) [17:12:59] YES [17:13:53] cool. Anything you want/need from your mentor-y folks fhocutt? [17:14:22] I have a question on how to approach MW::Gateway, I'll PM [17:14:48] OK! [17:15:31] "she" [17:15:42] oh thank god i'm not the only female here lol [17:16:07] rarityfan: I'm a woman too [17:16:35] phew :P [17:16:45] sumanah, rarityfan: yep! [17:16:53] :) welcome [17:20:35] what is the worst wiki you have been to? [17:20:59] gosh I dunno [17:21:37] mine's this one: http://spongefan.wikia.com [17:21:46] or anything wikia for that matter :P [17:22:15] rarityfan: I contribute to the Geek Feminism wiki, which is on Wikia, and I think that's all right :) [17:23:01] well i guess wikia is ok, but it's definitely not the best wiki host around [17:23:14] ok [17:23:38] I work for the Wikimedia Foundation, and we've collaborated with Wikia on some stuff - for instance some Wikia engineers have worked on the VisualEditor [17:24:33] well obviously. both companies were founded by the same person. :P [17:24:46] fhocutt: so I want to know when you finish the Java eval so I can eat a cinnamon Imperial in triumph :) [17:25:09] rarityfan: I don't actually find it obvious; sometimes this kind of collaboration has not happened. I'm glad when it does. [17:25:11] Imperial? [17:25:21] fhocutt: (a "red hot" it's often called) [17:25:24] I will let you know! I am looking forward to it. [17:25:28] (ah!) [17:43:34] how do you make a new namespace? [17:49:21] !namespaces [17:49:22] See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Namespaces for user help and documentation, and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Namespace for administration. For adding namespaces, see !extranamespace [17:49:28] !extranamespace [17:49:28] To add a namespace, modify your LocalSettings.php file, and add namespaces via $wgExtraNamespaces. A comprehensive set of instructions for adding a namespace can be found at . $wgExtraNamespaces can also be used to rename the default namespaces. [17:50:06] :/ [17:53:44] well, how do i get more people to join my wiki? [17:59:30] Whats the difference between a regular form made by HTML, XML classes and HTMLForm ? [18:00:45] rohan013: HTML is used to form websites. XML is used to make page text. [18:01:01] rarityfan: the phrase "marketing funnel" might be a useful one for you to investigate - I have found that framework useful to me when trying to promote something [18:01:15] sumanah: thx [18:01:27] rohan013: see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/HTMLForm [18:02:01] rohan013: HTMLForm handles many boring things for you [18:03:12] What i am asking is, there are many special pages (like watchlist) which build their forms without HTMLForm. Why is that ? [18:03:32] Because they likely haven't been changed over [18:04:07] Ah.. ok. makes sense [18:35:21] Hi. I'm trying to get pages for users that aren't logged in cached by cloudfront (Amazon AWS CDN). Unfortunately I can't seem to get mediawiki to set the appropriate headers and judging from google results you'd expect it to just work out of the box. Page is http://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page . Any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Thanks. [18:36:11] That looks like bad rewrites [18:38:23] Reedy: Interesting. I think we got those from the MW documentation but let me check. [18:44:57] Reedy: Can't seem to find anything wrong with it. Here's the corresponding config snippets: http://pastebin.com/7nAA31Ew . The documentation we got it from is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL/Apache#Setting_up_the_rewrite_rules . [18:45:55] You'd probably be best looking at your webserve rlogs to see what it's doing [18:46:36] You did update $wgScriptPath etc? [18:47:29] Reedy: Sure. See the snippet. The installation is in the top level directory for the domain. [18:48:39] We generally reccommend using a w folder [18:48:54] http://wiki.mumble.info/index.php also 404s [18:49:22] Reedy: Not for me [18:50:01] Redirects to main page with 301 [18:50:33] Doesn't work in FF or Chrome for me [18:50:42] curl agrees with you though [18:50:57] strange [18:51:30] Reedy: Do you think the /w folder could be a factor? As in stuff not being tested with "" and breaking somewhere? [18:51:51] IIRC we used to tell people to use the w folder as it was generally "easier" [18:52:01] Not quite seing what that makes easier^^ [18:52:27] It was something to do with rewrites and config [18:52:30] As the variable would be set to "/w" I guess "" should be fine everywhere [18:52:36] And it was known to be working (ie wikipedia) [18:52:56] Reedy: What made you suspect the rewrite rules in the first place? [18:53:06] * dD0T thought the seemed to work fine [18:53:21] It was showing as a 404 [18:53:29] Oh ;) [18:54:08] No clue why it would do that. Maybe some edge nodge caching a previous error page or sth.... [18:55:33] This is what the headers look like for me http://images.devs-on.net/Image/vMmHCp8nxpsvppnM-DeveloperToolsh.png [18:55:46] I note if I try and visit http://wiki.mumble.info/, I end up at http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ [18:57:02] Reedy: That might be DNS shenanigans. We only set this and the CDN up a few hours ago. [18:57:08] ahh [18:57:15] Which may mean I'm completely useless to help you ;) [18:57:23] let me purge that domain at opendns [18:57:25] Probably hitting the old DNS server. We moved the records [18:57:54] (I did curl on a different server on a different network...) [18:58:03] Sorry about that. It just worked for us so I never thought twice about it. [18:58:23] * Reedy waits for it to refresh [18:58:43] That looks awful [18:58:51] A certain % are looking at d1gkm8tubstelq.cloudfront.net [18:59:01] various others are just pointing at 128.39.114.1 [18:59:11] wtf opendns [19:00:22] I know this sounds like a contradiction in terms, but is there any way in CSS I can make a relatively positioned collapse toggle not affect the positioning of the other layers? [19:00:25] whats here [19:02:15] Ulfr_: Surround it with sth. of fixed size? (I'm a CSS noob though so don't mind me if that's nonsense) [19:14:08] hi, is there any way to change my tags? [19:14:30] so instead of having to write

I have just do $ $? [19:37:11] I suppose this: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiTex [21:47:32] hey fhocutt [21:47:38] hey sumanah [21:48:04] fhocutt: I have shared with Fureigh a fanvid of Xena set to the Indigo Girls [21:48:10] I saw! [21:48:30] haha [21:50:02] fhocutt: anyway. Did you get the Maven setup stuff done that you needed? [21:50:31] yes, I think so [22:07:34] so I have found a GitHub repo, via Fureigh, that has a theme to its pull requests [22:07:35] https://github.com/codeforamerica/ticket-to-ride/pulls?direction=asc&page=4&sort=created&state=closed [22:08:14] where almost every changeset has, as a title, a relevant Beatles reference [22:08:36] "Utf - 8 days a week" - Added utf 8 encoding to resolve database load issue. [22:08:48] "[Both Parents at] Penny Lane" or Ask guardian 1 if guardian 2 has the same address [22:08:53] "[We] Want to Hold Your Hand [as you register, but we can't]" aka putting the summary pages closer to their respective sections [22:09:21] this brings peace to my heart and joy to my blood [22:10:57] sumanah, I'm almost done with the jwbf evaluation [22:11:03] :) [22:11:24] tl;dr: good code, responsive and helpful maintainer, bad docs [22:11:31] fhocutt: nod nod nod [22:11:45] helpful as in added useful comments to the evaluation itself! [22:12:02] which is a first for this project [22:12:03] fhocutt: !!!! https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=API%3AClient_code%2FEvaluations%2FJava_Wiki_Bot_Framework_%28JWBF%29&diff=1075389&oldid=1075381 right! [22:12:05] wowww [22:12:53] so now I am considering jwbf and mwclient to be top contenders for more work [22:12:58] (my work, I mean) [22:13:29] right! [22:13:41] because it would be nice if the main Java library had good docs [22:14:04] and that would sure get me to brush up on and learn more Java [22:14:14] fhocutt: I checked in with Merlijn about whether there would be any way pywikibot could fast-track your changes over the next month and he felt like it would be bad to try to make that promise since he wouldn't necessarily be able to back it up [22:14:24] sumanah, thanks for checking [22:14:35] that is fine, then. [22:14:36] sure [22:15:15] awjr: \o/ :) :thumbsup: [22:15:34] fhocutt: are you leaning towards wanting to brush up on Java for professional reasons? [22:15:36] Hello! Can somebody please tell me whats wrong with my Parsoid setup? [22:15:50] i am dying:( [22:15:57] sumanah: somewhat. It certainly seems like the sort of thing I'd be less likely to do on my own [22:15:59] sumanah thank you :) [22:16:26] gyoza: #mediawiki-parsoid may be able to help you more - they will want to know specifically what problem you are running into [22:16:29] aah thanks [22:16:35] and version numbers re Node, MW, etc [22:17:39] fhocutt: do you feel more skilled, right now, in Java or Python? [22:17:47] Python, considerably. [22:18:11] fhocutt: and which language do you feel like it's easier for you to get support in? (via local friends, your mentors/advisors, etc.) [22:19:08] also Python [22:19:41] fhocutt: so, in terms of setting you up for success on that level for the next 3-4 weeks, Python is a clear winner. [22:19:52] fhocutt: but that is not the only consideration of course [22:20:14] right on both counts [22:20:43] fhocutt: once you have finished your TODOs for JWBF I suppose we can look at those TODOs and see whether there are good doc-y and codey things you could do that would be natural next steps [22:20:54] if that makes sense - so we can compare against mwclient on that level as well [22:21:10] sounds like a plan [22:22:13] as I see it the main things to do on jwbf are documentation improvements and for code, make gzip the default encoding, and create some way to combine API requests for multiple items [22:22:15] fhocutt: cool. I'm so pleased that the Java lib maintainer has gotten so involved! Is s/he also, like, accessible via email or IRC? [22:22:25] not sure! Will find that out. [22:22:36] OK! [22:22:55] TimStarling: do you enjoy Java on any level? I know you have written Java [22:24:17] oh interesting fhocutt https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API_talk:Client_code/Evaluations/Java_Wiki_Bot_Framework_%28JWBF%29 [22:24:42] nice! [22:24:56] I like it mostly because of the JVM/JIT rather than the language itself [22:25:07] Quick question, Mainly curious but why are timestamps (touched and registration spicificly) in the user table stored as a Binary? [22:25:18] I will go ahead and finish up the eval/summary/todos, then [22:25:24] What's wrong with DateTime? [22:25:28] it's fast and secure, which is a combination that appeals to me [22:26:29] <^demon|away> sumanah: Well-written Java is a pleasure to work in imho. [22:27:24] * sumanah defers to experts to answer kaotic's question, which is also something I'm curious about [22:28:05] i have a question. [22:28:21] Querious 2 does not know what encoding was uses so displays data like this: http://i.imgur.com/n9XBeLu.png [22:29:08] rarityfan: if it's about MediaWiki or related stuff, ask away! [22:30:26] if somebody's account was permabanned from wikimedia, but their ip was blocked until a certain date (like september), then would it still be considered sockpuppetry if they created another account after their ip block ended? [22:31:11] kaotic: I'd assume it would be to avoid mysql messing with timezones when we don't want it to, and to avoid the auto-update madness of timestamp fields [22:31:16] That's just a guess though [22:31:50] <^demon|away> bawolff: hysterical raisins. [22:32:27] bawolff, that somewhat makes since but then why not just go with VARCHAR? [22:32:33] raisins? [22:32:38] "historical reasons" [22:32:44] ah [22:32:54] bawolff: there is a "jargon file" of programmer slang and I think this is in there [22:33:14] kaotic: avoid mysql collations I suppose [22:34:48] <^demon|away> That'd be my guess. Same reason we use binary for utf8 stuff. [22:34:50] cl_timestamp is a timestamp field, and there's been several bugs related to magic timestamp updating [22:36:08] <^demon|away> brion: Why do we use varbinary(14) for timestamp fields instead of date/time? Auto-updating? Old mysql 3/4 collation mess? Timezones? [22:36:11] <^demon|away> He'll know :p [22:36:23] ^demon|away: mysql 3 [22:36:28] magnus originally used ‘timestamp’ fields [22:36:33] which it turns out auto-update (or used to) [22:36:47] so we switched them to char(14) which could hold the same format [22:36:49] but didn’t auto-update [22:37:08] kaotic: If you use the mysql command line tool it will display binary values very nicely :) [22:37:19] but will be less pretty in every other respect [22:37:29] <^demon|away> brion: Figured something like that. thx. [22:37:36] yep I've seen that and even Sequel Pro knows how to handle it [22:37:49] and everything’s binary strings because utf8 was fucked for ages in mysql [22:37:55] was mainly curious to the reasons behind it. [22:38:11] rarityfan: so, I am not one of the people who makes or administers that policy, but it seems to me that if I were the person who had been disciplined in this way, I would think it best to ask the relevant policymakers/enforcers [22:38:12] I changed those fields from varchar to varbinary [22:38:27] varbinary was introduced in MySQL 4 IIRC [22:38:41] rarityfan: this room is full of MediaWiki developers, not Wikimedia stewards or similar [22:38:58] currently, timestamp auto-updates, but not datetime [22:39:31] <^demon|away> Yeah. We *could* use datetime if there was something to gain. [22:39:36] it could easily be changed [22:39:53] well, easily as in weeks of time running ALTER TABLE [22:40:10] <^demon|away> Yeah, I'm saying we could if there was some gain and the schema change was worth it. [22:41:10] sumanah: I was only using Wikimedia as an example. I actually meant global blocks in general. [22:41:55] this sounds kind of like a policy question that individual wikis might have different thoughts on [22:42:17] rarityfan: Contact the person who blocked you, and indicate that you want a clean start perhaps? [22:42:35] bawolff: oh ok [22:43:21] policies vary depending on which wiki your at. I imagine response will vary depending on what you did, etc [22:43:50] bawolff: I suppose we should not assume that rarityfan is the blocked person; she may be Asking For A Friend! [22:44:02] then again you may be using the plural you [22:44:03] vous [22:44:50] Yes, it's a friend of mine who was globally blocked on Wikia. [22:45:15] Hmm. I don't even know what wikias policies are like [22:46:40] rarityfan: The alternative advice of course is, if s/he makes a new account, behaves reasonably and otherwise gives nobody reason to believe s/he is linked to the blocked account, its unlikely anyone will know [22:47:10] gotcha [22:47:55] bawolff: I admire the mix of realpolitik, straightforwardness, and Assume Good Faith in your advice [22:51:36] I probably stole that from meatball wiki somewhere [22:52:24] bawolff: btw another reason you should come to Open Source Bridge some year is that Ward is usually there [22:52:29] at least one evening or day [22:52:42] whats meatball wiki? [22:53:05] rarityfan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeatballWiki [22:54:05]