[00:00:07] <Carmela>	 `man git-gc` doesn't give any "will eat your first-born" warnings re: --aggressive.
[00:00:26] <greg-g>	 no, it just drops more than normal, not a big deal
[00:00:47] <MatmaRex>	 (i actually can't get that to work on win 7, `systeminfo` showed it on win xp, but on 7 it shows the date when the computer was booted up instead)
[00:01:07] <Carmela>	 The date when it was booted up instead of the time delta between then and now?
[00:01:33] <Carmela>	 Maybe it's an exercise for the reader.
[00:01:49] <MatmaRex>	 yes, but i would think that the uptime "counts" sleep and hibernation
[00:01:58] <MatmaRex>	 (or rather doesn't count that time)
[00:02:11] <Carmela>	 Oh, it probably does count those.
[00:02:53] <Carmela>	 I imagine it's just storing the local date/time of last boot time and then doing a differential between that fixed point and the current local date/time.
[00:03:13] <Carmela>	 That's what OS X does, anyway. You can have crazy uptimes on laptops. ;-)
[05:45:10] <ayaka>	 is it possible to change database backend of mediawiki, I used postgresql, but I find some plugins could only work for mysql
[05:45:34] <ayaka>	 could I export pagers in old site to new site?
[05:46:42] <Carmela>	 Hmm.
[05:46:57] <Carmela>	 There's probably some means of converting Postgres tables to MySQL.
[05:47:11] <Carmela>	 But depending on the size of the wiki, you may be better off using a maintenance script to export/import the wiki.
[05:47:14] <Carmela>	 Via XML dumps.
[05:48:04] <Djain>	 Hi! I am unable to login to my gerrit account
[05:48:31] <Djain>	 It shows invalid username/password
[05:48:46] <Djain>	 although I have never changed my password
[05:49:25] <Djain>	 and the password i remember works fine when i push to gerrit so i am sure it is correct
[05:49:50] <Djain>	 also, I can't see any 'forgot password' in gerrit
[05:53:14] <Nemo_bis>	 What extension adds data-bs-title attribute? <a href="/wiki/Special:BlankPage#autocomment" title="Special:BlankPage" data-bs-title="Special:BlankPage">
[06:02:13] <Carmela>	 Djain: I believe you reset your password from wikitech.wikimedia.org.
[06:02:17] <Carmela>	 It's shared authentication.
[06:02:34] <Carmela>	 Though maybe Gerrit has a link as well? I forget.
[06:02:35] <Djain>	 ok thank you :)
[06:02:41] <Carmela>	 Nemo_bis: Where do you see that?
[06:02:53] <Djain>	 i couldn't find a link on gerrit
[06:03:25] <Djain>	 i am logged out and on signing in, it doesn't show any such link
[06:03:52] <Carmela>	 Lame.
[06:04:07] <Carmela>	 Nemo_bis: Probably some local JavaScript?
[06:05:09] <Carmela>	 https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-BlueSpiceFoundation/blob/master/includes/CoreHooks.php#L315 ?
[06:12:42] <Nemo_bis>	 Carmela: no, phpunit tests
[06:14:03] <Nemo_bis>	 Ah, right. I suppose including "$IP/extensions/BlueSpiceFoundation/BlueSpiceFoundation.php"; brought that too
[09:33:37] <gleki>	 hello. is there an extension that would show the tree of links between pages starting from a given one? Some kind of a hypergraph
[09:47:13] <petan>	 can someone explain me how edit token gets changed and when and why?
[09:47:36] <petan>	 from documentation it looks like it is same for whole session but that doesn't seem to be true
[09:48:00] <petan>	 it is same for most of time though
[09:50:06] <DanielK_WMDE__>	 petan: should only change when the session is lost
[09:50:22] <DanielK_WMDE__>	 note that "session" is an internal php concept. it does not mean "between login and logout".
[09:50:34] <petan>	 it happened that edit token has changed but rollback token did not
[09:50:50] <petan>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback#Huggle3_unable_to_warn_user
[09:50:52] <DanielK_WMDE__>	 that's odd - afaik, they are currently implemented to all be the same
[09:51:03] <petan>	 some user was still able to rollback pages but couldn't warn users
[09:51:41] <DanielK_WMDE__>	 don't know how that would happen, sorry
[09:52:09] <gleki>	 hello. is there an extension that would show the tree of links between pages starting from a given one? Some kind of a hypergraph
[13:38:12] <Sylvain_WMFr>	 hi
[13:38:32] <Sylvain_WMFr>	 I have a mirror of Wikipedia for the extractions for DBPedia
[13:38:51] <sumanah>	 Hi Sylvain_WMFr 
[13:39:06] <Sylvain_WMFr>	 and html tags (like <td> etc.) are not rendered, they appear in the page
[13:39:07] <Sylvain_WMFr>	 http://dbpedia.wikimedia.fr:8080/mediawiki/index.php/Paris?lang=fr
[13:39:29] <Sylvain_WMFr>	 does someone know what I could do to fix it ?
[14:53:02] <Nemo_bis>	 A bit poor. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/manual:bench
[15:37:42] <Nemo_bis>	 Is any of those devs known to gerrit? http://termwiki.com/Special:Version
[15:38:51] <legoktm>	 > Magnus Manske
[15:40:40] <marktraceur>	 Looks like Lucy Liu's brothers formed a software firm.
[15:45:43] <Krenair>	 Yaron Koren, on Semantic Forms
[15:48:53] <Krenair>	 Also see Cite, ParserFunctions, RSS feed, Semantic MW, ClientSide, CommunityVoice, MWSearch
[15:49:05] <Krenair>	 MediaWiki 1.15.1 (r12779), pff.
[15:56:40] <Nemo_bis>	 Yeah, I meant of the prolific ones 6 Alim Boyaq/ 6 Rob Feng/ 7 Abe Wang/ 9 Nelson Qiao/ 14 Tom Tang/ 16 Abe wang/ 25 Louis Liu/ 37 Alim/ 43 Bill Liu
[15:58:23] <Nemo_bis>	 Nope, not one is registered in bugzilla even
[15:59:01] <Nemo_bis>	 Well, I guess we should be glad that people who wouldn't talk with us ever still use MediaWiki. :D
[16:07:40] <Krenair>	 Nemo_bis, find their emails, make them update :p
[16:09:56] <Nemo_bis>	 Krenair: for such a site they'd probably need a couple years FTE work
[16:29:33] <JamesLloyd>	 I am trying to set up a private mediawiki instance and having issues with the SMTP setup through gmail (Google Apps). Is this something anyone here can assist with?
[16:29:56] <ivanshmakov>	 Any idea why MediaWiki (as used on WMF wikis) “canonicalizes” U+2126 (Ω OHM SIGN) to U+03A9 (GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA) even though http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt has an explicit “x (ohm sign - 2126)” for the latter?
[16:32:13] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: that data is for Unicode 7, i think MediaWiki is using an older version of the standard
[16:32:50] <ivanshmakov>	 MatmaRex: Is it planned to upgrade MediaWiki to match that?
[16:33:00] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: (MediaWiki uses the NFC form internally)
[16:33:26] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: the libraries we use weren't upgraded yet, afaik
[16:33:44] <MatmaRex>	 at some point MW will probably be upgraded
[16:34:15] <Reedy>	 ivanshmakov: You can file a bug requesting it to be done :)
[16:35:55] <ivanshmakov>	 MatmaRex: ACK, thanks.
[16:35:59] <ivanshmakov>	 Reedy: Well, it’s more curiosity than actual need.
[16:40:00] <PinkieDPie>	 c: I hope I don't sound like a stalker or anything, but do you know what happened to Eulalia459678? I haven't seen him in awhile, and was just wondering.
[16:43:16] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: hmm, i'm not sure if we're reading that data right
[16:43:53] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: i'm not sure what that means, but i don't think it means that the ohm sign can't be normalized via NFC into the omega letter
[16:44:19] <MatmaRex>	 ivanshmakov: the Unicode 7.0.0 annex on normalization forms even has this exact character as an example: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/tr15-41.html
[16:47:34] <c>	 Pinkie|shower: kindly sod off or youll be banned from here as well. stop following me around everywhere
[16:48:44] <PinkieDPie>	 c: Okie dokie lokie
[16:55:18] * fhocutt waves to sumanah
[16:55:25] <sumanah>	 yo fhocutt!
[16:55:46] <fhocutt>	 how are you?
[16:55:56] <sumanah>	 fhocutt: I am all right! I am happy that a meeting ended 10 min early
[16:55:57] <sumanah>	 :)
[16:55:58] <sumanah>	 fhocutt: and you?
[16:56:06] <fhocutt>	 eh. 
[17:03:04] <sumanah>	 hey Mithrandir - ping re Frances's questions on Java-related expectations
[17:18:56] <aharoni>	 prtksxna: hi
[17:19:22] <aharoni>	 prtksxna: what is "monitor" in the "monitor or edit" in Popups?
[18:40:55] <Mlpearc>	 Help, just upgraded my farm to 1.24A and one wiki will not accept login, old password, password reset all not working, note the original install account "Admin" is able to login but, no other account
[18:45:10] <Betacommand>	 Mlpearc: thats what happens when you upgrade to an alpha :P
[18:45:51] <Betacommand>	 Mlpearc: do they use a shared database?
[18:45:52] <Mlpearc>	 >:( Thanx for you support
[18:45:55] <Mlpearc>	 lol
[18:46:01] <Mlpearc>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.24#New_features
[18:46:12] <Mlpearc>	 Not the one in question
[18:46:21] <bawolff>	 Hmm, we changed the password stuff recently
[18:46:42] <bawolff>	 It should "just work"
[18:46:56] <Mlpearc>	 How ya been Betacommand, long time no type
[18:47:02] <Betacommand>	 Mlpearc: you ran upgrade.php correct?
[18:47:06] <Betacommand>	 Mlpearc: good
[18:47:14] <Mlpearc>	 of course
[18:47:34] <Betacommand>	 Mlpearc: can you create a new account?
[18:47:59] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: The other 3 wikis seem error free, at least a the password level
[18:48:23] <Mlpearc>	 Betacommand: let me try
[18:50:42] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: Does your other wiki have $wgPasswordSalt set to something other then the default
[18:50:49] <bawolff>	 or otherwise do anything weird involving passwords
[18:50:57] <Mlpearc>	 Betacommand: Give me a couple minutes, things aren't moving to quickly 
[18:51:07] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: No
[18:53:03] <Mlpearc>	 wait
[18:53:21] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: As a debugging step, I would recommend looking at some of the user_password fields on the database (especially the first little bit, e.g. the ':B:'), and see if there's a difference between the admin account that works, and the other accounts
[18:54:40] <Mlpearc>	 that's wierd, I changed $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount'] from false to true, to see if I could create an account, the page loaded with my account already logged in :P
[18:55:15] <Mlpearc>	 Something to do with confirm account ?
[18:55:25] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: ^
[18:55:32] <Reedy>	 Did you update the extension too?
[18:55:45] <Mlpearc>	 not yet
[18:56:08] <Mlpearc>	 that will be my next move
[19:12:19] <Mlpearc>	 That didn't help
[19:17:32] <Mlpearc>	 Trying the latest dev version
[19:17:56] * Mlpearc wondering why did I upgrade :P
[19:18:00] <Mlpearc>	 lol
[19:24:06] <Mlpearc>	 Nope
[19:25:51] <bawolff>	 If confirmaccount is incompatible, I imagine it will take a little while for them to address a core change that landed just a couple weeks ago
[19:25:59] <Mlpearc>	 Is the install account (Admin) stored in a different location in the DB ?
[19:27:15] <Reedy>	 no
[19:27:49] <Mlpearc>	 weird 
[19:30:07] <Mlpearc>	 Fatal error: Call to a member function equals() on a non-object in /home4/every821/public_html/w/includes/User.php on line 3824
[19:30:38] <Mlpearc>	 Got this when entering new password on new account creation
[19:31:37] <wmat>	 this may be a dumb question, but can I use grep and sed to replace all instances of a deprecated function like wgMsg with wgMessage across the whole mediawiki extensions repository then push all of the changes through gerrit at once?
[19:32:04] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: Is this with or without confirmaccount extension?
[19:32:27] <bawolff>	 wmat: Not in our great glorious git future
[19:32:45] <bawolff>	 wmat: Back in the svn days you used to be able to do that
[19:33:24] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: Obviously was able to create account log in with email password, with  ConfirmAccount disabled
[19:33:45] <Mlpearc>	 Corection
[19:33:55] <bawolff>	 Hmm, confirm account must mess with the User class pretty significantly for it to be able to do that
[19:34:16] <Mlpearc>	 with $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount'] = true
[19:34:54] * bawolff confused now
[19:35:00] <Mlpearc>	 Let me edit out the extension call in LS.php and see what happens
[19:35:03] <bawolff>	 Are you getting the fatal with just core mediawiki
[19:35:20] <Mlpearc>	 It seems, yes
[19:37:48] <Mlpearc>	 Same error with extension disabled
[19:38:34] <wmat>	 bawolff: k, thanks. So working through them 1 by 1 is the way it's done then?
[19:38:59] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: Ok, I can't reproduce that with just $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount'] = false;. Any idea what  else is different in your install that might trigger the error?
[19:39:20] <bawolff>	 wmat: Well, you could use a shell script in a for loop
[19:39:44] <bawolff>	 Or even git submoudle foreach
[19:40:02] <bawolff>	 *submodule
[19:41:13] <Mlpearc>	 User.php on line 3824 = 		if ( $this->mNewpassword->equals( $plaintext ) ) {
[19:41:20] <wmat>	 bawolff: thx
[19:42:11] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: Not that I can think of, but I'm just a self taught tinkerer :P
[19:43:05] <Mlpearc>	 Nothing different between the 4 wikis that I can nail down
[19:43:26] <Mlpearc>	 other three working fine
[19:43:58] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: This happens just when logging in from a temporary password right, normal logins are fine?
[19:44:19] <Mlpearc>	 no, all logins are not working
[19:44:29] <Mlpearc>	 except the install account
[19:45:09] <Mlpearc>	 password resets not working, being gererated but not accepted
[19:45:48] <bawolff>	 That's odd, as that method should only be called when using a temporary password
[19:46:25] <Mlpearc>	 http://www.everythingfoodanddrink.org/wiki/Main_Page
[19:46:36] <Mlpearc>	 if you'd like to try :P
[19:47:18] <marktraceur>	 Mlpearc: I hope you've seen https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook :)
[19:48:13] <bawolff>	 oh err, I lie. That method is called if you type in a password which doesn't match
[19:49:07] <Mlpearc>	 marktraceur: Some day I might get that organized :P
[19:49:23] <marktraceur>	 I'm not sure that will go so well, but it's definitely a cool project.
[19:49:34] <marktraceur>	 Filled with people just sort of doing their own thing.
[19:50:12] <Mlpearc>	 That's what I had hoped for, but getting users is not happening 
[19:50:53] <Mlpearc>	 So I tinker :P
[19:50:56] <Mlpearc>	 lol
[19:52:33] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: Restoring the DB would prolly fix it but, then it wouldn't be updated to the 1.24a core
[19:52:55] * Mlpearc Kicking self in ass
[19:53:16] <bawolff>	 1.24a is meant to be downgradable I think (e.g. You should be able to convert the php files 1.23, and things should just work)
[19:54:32] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: I just know how to do a normal upgrade, but I can do the with a fresh 1.23, if that would work
[19:55:07] <Mlpearc>	 Well, wait
[19:55:36] <bawolff>	 I don't know 100% for sure, but usually the previous version of mediawiki will work with the next version of the db
[19:56:22] <Mlpearc>	 I'll give it a go, I can always have my host restore that wiki
[19:56:30] <Mlpearc>	 an d DB
[19:58:21] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: As a debugging step, could you add var_dump( $this->mNewpassword );die(); on the line right before the one that's fataling, and seeing what happens when you try to log in?
[20:01:22] <bawolff>	 Hmm, could possibly happen if the User object was loaded from a db row where user_password was not selected
[20:03:49] <bawolff>	 Or possibly if loaded from cache. I bet that's it
[20:04:24] <bawolff>	 except then it wouldn't work for me
[20:08:17] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: Sure
[20:09:31] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: same indent ?
[20:09:39] <bawolff>	 doesn't matter
[20:09:42] <Mlpearc>	 k
[20:09:58] <bawolff>	 I suspect it would output Null, but just to double check
[20:13:14] <bawolff>	 hmm, actually, I don't think I need you to do that anymore
[20:13:16] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: https://dpaste.de/RNw4
[20:13:32] <bawolff>	 Oh nevermind, that's not the output I expected
[20:13:41] <Mlpearc>	 :P
[20:13:43] <Mlpearc>	 k
[20:13:58] <Mlpearc>	 Going to do the downgrade
[20:14:06] <bawolff>	 Well that is an object, so it shouldn't cause a fatal
[20:14:14] * bawolff confused
[20:15:11] <Mlpearc>	 That was from just a generic login
[20:17:28] <Mlpearc>	 Wait I still have "OLD-w" :P
[20:17:43] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: Actually I think i figured out issue
[20:17:56] <Mlpearc>	 :)
[20:20:52] <bawolff>	 I think it was just missing a call to $this->loadPassword(); at the beginning of the method
[20:21:08] <bawolff>	 sorry, that should have been more obvious, I'm not that familar with the User stuff
[20:21:38] <bawolff>	 * $this->loadPasswords() with an s
[20:23:36] <bawolff>	 Mlpearc: [17:24]	<grrrit-wm>	(PS1) Brian Wolff: checkTemporaryPassword should call loadPasswords() first [core] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150379 
[20:24:06] <bawolff>	 Might fix the issue
[20:24:13] <zol_mike>	 Does anyone know of a still developed IRC Bot that will report recent changes to a mediawiki instance in IRC and allows you to search the wiki through the bot?
[20:24:31] <bawolff>	 Still kind of confused how its happening though
[20:27:50] <Reedy>	 There's bots that do those...
[20:28:04] <zol_mike>	 Could you point me to a couple?
[20:28:08] <Reedy>	 But not necessarily are setup to do both
[20:31:13] <retentiveboy>	 Am using the ArticleFromTitle hook to generated articles dynamically for a namespace; i.e. [[FOO:ID]] generates an article based on records in a database for ID.  Already use MW for stanard docs and such so I used it as a platform for reporting like this.  Have been asked to integrate with MW's search.  Have hooked SpecialSearchResultsAppend to add a "Foo matches" section to the end of the search page.  Want now to allow user
[20:32:37] <Mlpearc>	 bawolff: I try it once I get stable again :P
[20:32:43] <marktraceur>	 retentiveboy: Your message got cut off at "to allow user"
[20:33:10] <retentiveboy>	 sorry, overly verbose...  A flaw of mine...
[20:33:21] <retentiveboy>	 Want now to allow users to "go" to an article by searching for ID.  Any thoughts on ways to accomplish this?
[20:34:16] <marktraceur>	 It's fine :)
[20:35:17] <bawolff>	 retentiveboy: Are you aware of the ?curid url parameter?
[20:35:35] <retentiveboy>	 So, I have this vision of a hook that would allow me to see that a user entered an ID, and return something that says, "yes, that matches [[this]] article."
[20:35:51] <retentiveboy>	 and have the user jump to [[this]]/
[20:36:04] <retentiveboy>	 Am not, searching
[20:36:09] <bawolff>	 !hook SearchGetNearMatch | retentiveboy 
[20:36:09] <wm-bot>	 retentiveboy: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/SearchGetNearMatch
[20:36:15] * bawolff hopes that's the right hook
[20:37:01] <bawolff>	 retentiveboy: curid url parameter jumps to a page based on page_id (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/?curid=4569 )
[20:37:55] <retentiveboy>	 bawolff: in my case, the pages don't actually exist in the MW database'
[20:38:07] <retentiveboy>	 Not sure that would be useful
[20:38:07] <bawolff>	 Ah, so different kind of id
[20:38:26] <retentiveboy>	 sorry, yes.  ID in my database table.  
[20:39:18] <bawolff>	 Well the SearchGetNearMatch hook looks to be what you want (See the TitleKey extension for something else that changes how the "go" button works on the search bar)
[20:39:50] <retentiveboy>	 This is is actually a system that adds a wiki to an existing system.  Our inventory of devices and such is that separate DB.  The [[FOO:ID]] pages render data about the device from the database.
[20:40:12] <retentiveboy>	 bawolff: yeah, promising.  thx
[20:41:17] <retentiveboy>	 I find the "return false for a match" in the docs for SearchGetNearMatch a little curious.
[20:41:43] <bawolff>	 retentiveboy: Hooks are usually like that
[20:41:48] <bawolff>	 with weird return values
[20:42:01] <bawolff>	 return false means do not execute normal functionality
[20:42:06] <retentiveboy>	 so, FALSE as is done, no need to continue
[20:42:12] <retentiveboy>	 heh
[20:42:32] <retentiveboy>	 will tinker.  thx mush
[20:42:37] <retentiveboy>	 much
[20:42:52] <bawolff>	 I've contemplated replacing that with constants, as its really super confusing. return Hooks::FUNCTIONALITY_OVERRIDEN or Hooks::CONTINUE; would be a lot clearer than true or false
[20:44:17] <retentiveboy>	 not the architect here but I think my knee-jerk would have been to return TRUE when the handler has completed the action.  FALSE would indicate further processing/handling is necessary.  $0.02.
[20:44:41] <retentiveboy>	 TRUE as in "the hook handler was successful"
[20:45:06] <retentiveboy>	 *but*, this is long-existing code so I'm fine with following existing convention
[21:09:07] <fischma01>	 Is there any admins on mediawiki.org on atm?
[21:10:25] <Vogone>	 yes
[21:10:59] <fischma01>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AberothRefocusingCalculator  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/AberothRefocusingCalculator.js
[21:11:08] <fischma01>	 Someone from Wikia added themto mediawiki.org
[21:11:24] <fischma01>	 http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:710822#7
[21:12:58] <greg-g>	 oh naming
[21:14:04] <MatmaRex>	 fischma01: done
[21:14:57] <Vogone>	 MatmaRex: there was't a task to do, he merely provided information! :p
[21:17:42] <Vulpix>	 > Verbatim tags don't pull the information from MediaWiki.org. They pull it from MediaWiki: pages on your wiki.
[21:17:52] * Vulpix facepalms
[21:22:13] <marktraceur>	 Herp.
[21:25:59] <rillke>	 What happened to the padding on jQuery UI buttons?
[21:26:04] <sumanah>	 hi fhocutt 
[21:26:09] <marktraceur>	 Excellent question, rillke.
[21:26:17] <fhocutt>	 hi sumanah
[21:27:00] <marktraceur>	 rillke: You're looking at UW, I assume
[21:27:02] <sumanah>	 fhocutt: so shall we jam?
[21:28:00] <rillke>	 marktraceur, not only that -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Clickable_button
[21:28:28] <rillke>	 those without special coloring seem to have lost their padding
[21:28:30] <fhocutt>	 sumanah: let us jam.
[21:28:32] <marktraceur>	 Funky.
[21:28:40] <sumanah>	 fhocutt:  you remember pairjam?
[21:28:40] * marktraceur discoes
[21:28:46] <marktraceur>	 Pear jam!?
[21:28:55] <marktraceur>	 They're one of my favorite bands.
[21:29:01] * fhocutt grins
[21:29:55] <sumanah>	 marktraceur: I can totally imagine you discoing.
[21:30:18] <terrrydactyl>	 lol
[21:31:29] <marktraceur>	 rillke: I dunno, looks like it must have actually been changed.
[21:31:38] <sumanah>	 "The Java Wiki Bot Framework is a library to maintain Wikis like Wikipedia based on MediaWiki." WHO CHOSE THESE NAMES. I NEED A TIME MACHINE TO CHOOSE LESS CONFUSABLE NAMES
[21:31:48] * sumanah stops allcapsing
[21:32:59] <marktraceur>	 Ugh, paladox got his hands on the jquery.ui library
[21:33:41] <rillke>	 2014-07-15 Update jquery.ui Vector theme
[21:33:57] <marktraceur>	 And...apparently got the minified version of it
[21:34:06] <MatmaRex>	 heh
[21:34:08] <marktraceur>	 Meaning it's nearly impossible to read the goddamn diff
[21:34:13] <marktraceur>	 Who the eff did this
[21:34:25] <MatmaRex>	 i think i merged that :/
[21:34:37] <marktraceur>	 MatmaReeeeeeeeex
[21:34:41] <MatmaRex>	 i knew this was not going to end well!
[21:35:32] <MatmaRex>	 (but i needed to move all of the files somewhere else in another commits and i thought this way would cause less breakage than him rebasing…)
[21:35:36] <marktraceur>	 Sure
[21:35:47] <marktraceur>	 I'm just gonna leave a nastygram about it
[21:36:04] <MatmaRex>	 rillke: are you debugging or do you need me?
[21:36:10] <sumanah>	 marktraceur: careful now
[21:36:12] <sumanah>	 (obligatory note)
[21:36:15] <MatmaRex>	 i'll merge the patch if you submit one :)
[21:36:41] <marktraceur>	 MatmaRex: Seems like I will
[21:36:47] <marktraceur>	 rillke: Unless you're angling to do so
[21:37:15] <MatmaRex>	 (i'm doing stuff but it can wait if i need to do something more important)
[21:37:22] <rillke>	 no ambitions in this regard
[21:37:28] <marktraceur>	 K
[21:37:37] <MatmaRex>	 (like fixing jquery bloody ui)
[21:37:42] <MatmaRex>	 (why haven't we killed it yet? :/)
[21:39:02] <James_F>	 MatmaRex: Because we need (a) a full replacement and (b) a migration plan.
[21:39:18] <James_F>	 MatmaRex: I understand that Trevor's working on the first. :-)
[21:39:22] <MatmaRex>	 James_F: ah, you and your silly reasonable arguments!
[21:39:30] <MatmaRex>	 :D
[21:39:42] <^d>	 I'm going to make a new UI library.
[21:39:46] <^d>	 We'll call it NoUI
[21:40:41] <rillke>	 ^d, there is a terminal plugin for jQuery ;-)
[21:40:57] <^d>	 But then I'd have to write javascript!
[21:42:40] <James_F>	 ^d: I think that's called "nostalgia". :-)
[21:42:54] <^d>	 No, nostalgia has too much UI.
[21:43:18] <marktraceur>	 sumanah: I'd be way more careful if this wasn't a worse and worse problem every time I look at it.
[21:44:12] <sumanah>	 marktraceur: I trust you will balance critique with decorum.
[21:44:17] * sumanah lets it go
[21:44:44] <marktraceur>	 *nod*
[21:48:09] <marktraceur>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/145049 hth
[21:53:42] <sumanah>	 ^d: and other people who know Java stuff - I could use some help understanding sometihng
[21:54:38] <sumanah>	 Mithrandir: 
[21:54:47] <sumanah>	 YuviPanda: ^
[21:54:58] * YuviPanda waves
[21:55:03] <fhocutt>	 hi YuviPanda! 
[21:55:10] <YuviPanda>	 hey fhocutt
[21:55:12] <sumanah>	 hey YuviPanda - fhocutt and I are trying to understand something about Maven
[21:55:16] <YuviPanda>	 ah, sure
[21:55:20] <^d>	 What's up?
[21:55:22] <^d>	 Oooh maven
[21:55:26] <^d>	 Love/hate thing there.
[21:55:28] <^d>	 :p
[21:55:30] <YuviPanda>	 yeah
[21:55:37] <sumanah>	 so it seems like Maven Central is hard to understand
[21:55:53] <sumanah>	 https://github.com/eldur/jwbf links to http://search.maven.org/#search|gav|1|g%3A%22net.sourceforge%22%20AND%20a%3A%22jwbf%22 at the top of the README
[21:56:31] <sumanah>	 so if I am a developer and I want to use this library, I install Maven on my computer, and then I .... tell Maven somehow to look at one of the links at Maven Central?
[21:56:56] <^d>	 You'd put a dependency in your pom, most likely.
[21:57:04] <sumanah>	 or is this something people usually have their IDE do? because when I websearch to understand this I don't get a lot of "here's how to make Maven do this" - I get a lot of "here's how to do this in IntelliJ" or whatever
[21:57:06] <^d>	 Which would fetch it from mvn central at compile time.
[21:57:07] <^d>	 Usually.
[21:57:16] <sumanah>	 and a pom is sort of a manifest?
[21:57:19] <^d>	 Yep.
[21:57:33] <^d>	 Here's the pom for that library: https://github.com/eldur/jwbf/blob/master/pom.xml
[21:57:44] <^d>	 You'd include a dependency on that library in *your* pom.
[21:57:55] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: as a concrete example, we use maven in the android app to fetch dependencies.
[21:57:57] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: if you see https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-wikipedia/blob/master/wikipedia/pom.xml#L18
[21:58:01] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: we list the libraries we want to use
[21:58:11] <rillke>	 marktraceur, that's quite harsh -- the buttons are still working -- another thing I observed is that the buttonset looks no longer like a set -- see for example https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Roots -- the "good pictures" button
[21:58:12] <^d>	 Yep, good example.
[21:58:12] <sumanah>	 ok, so this is kind of like Puppet
[21:58:21] <^d>	 Not quite.
[21:58:23] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: if I wanted to use the jwbf library in my java app, in my pom.xml file, I'll add a similar xml definition to my list
[21:58:37] <marktraceur>	 Eugh.
[21:58:38] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: python does a similar thing with PyPI and requirements.txt
[21:58:53] <sumanah>	 ok, I think where I was messing up here was that I was thinking in Python terms, where you "import" the library before you do anything else, because, you know, interpreted
[21:58:53] <fhocutt>	 hm, ok
[21:58:57] <marktraceur>	 rillke: That doesn't look good to me either
[21:59:15] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: right, this is a compile time thing :) and closest python analogy is the requirements.txt file
[21:59:18] <sumanah>	 right
[21:59:29] <fhocutt>	 so you'd start your own project and just list jwbf as a dependency?
[21:59:35] <YuviPanda>	 fhocutt: yea
[21:59:40] <sumanah>	 fhocutt: my parochial "I've only worked with interpreted languages" perspective has failed you :)
[21:59:55] <fhocutt>	 sumanah, except for very old Java, me too...
[22:00:14] <fhocutt>	 where would you need to put it in the file structure? Is that obvious to a Java dev?
[22:00:28] <^d>	 In the root, generally.
[22:00:31] <^d>	 But yes.
[22:00:33] <^d>	 Here's the pom.xml dependencies for my swift plugin as an another example: https://github.com/wikimedia/search-repository-swift/blob/master/pom.xml#L43
[22:00:50] <^d>	 https://github.com/wikimedia/search-repository-swift is actually a pretty simple java project.
[22:00:57] <^d>	 If you're looking for an idea of general structure.
[22:01:08] <sumanah>	 I guess there must be a reasonably simple "how to make your pom file" explanation somewhere that fhocutt can point to
[22:01:47] <^d>	 http://maven.apache.org/guides/getting-started/index.html#How_do_I_make_my_first_Maven_project might be good
[22:01:51] <sumanah>	 cooool
[22:01:51] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: http://maven.apache.org/guides/getting-started/maven-in-five-minutes.html is what I used, and it's reasonably simple for Java's version of 'reasonable' and 'simple' :)
[22:01:59] <fhocutt>	 YuviPanda, hah!
[22:02:01] <sumanah>	 YuviPanda: yeah I looked at that and I must have misunderstood
[22:02:10] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: you can do that in individual IDEs as well, and each IDE usually has its own thing
[22:02:17] <fhocutt>	 oh, hm, I see
[22:02:20] <sumanah>	 because I didn't realize it was sort of starting off assuming that you are Making A New Project - I was like "but I just want to use an existing thing!"
[22:03:08] <^d>	 Of course, there's caveats to all of this.
[22:03:18] <fhocutt>	 so if I want to make the documentation beginner-friendly, maybe give directions for one IDE and mention that others will have different ways to set up a project?
[22:03:22] <^d>	 If you're not using maven, for example, you'd just download that jar and add it to the .classpath oldschool style.
[22:03:31] <sumanah>	 AHA. THERE IS A MAVENLESS WAY
[22:03:35] <^d>	 There's tons of other ways to get at the solution, but maven's popular these days :)
[22:03:58] <^d>	 And most java projects get released to central if they're worth anything.
[22:04:00] <^d>	 :)
[22:04:05] <sumanah>	 Right
[22:04:10] <sumanah>	 it's sort of like PyPI
[22:04:27] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: in http://search.maven.org/#search|gav|1|g%3A%22net.sourceforge%22%20AND%20a%3A%22jwbf%22
[22:04:32] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: under the 'download' column
[22:04:35] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: there's a 'jar' link
[22:04:38] <sumanah>	 right
[22:04:43] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: clicking that will give you a 'jar' file you can include in your project
[22:04:50] <sumanah>	 fhocutt: ^
[22:05:00] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: but, if this project itself depends on other projects, you'd have to chase those down, and get those jars as well
[22:05:07] <sumanah>	 yeah :/
[22:05:11] <fhocutt>	 which it does
[22:05:57] <YuviPanda>	 sumanah: it has 16 dependencies
[22:05:59] <^d>	 YuviPanda: Could be worse....
[22:06:02] <^d>	 buck ;-)
[22:06:08] <YuviPanda>	 (from reading http://search.maven.org/remotecontent?filepath=net/sourceforge/jwbf/2.0.0/jwbf-2.0.0.pom's <dependencies>)
[22:06:13] <YuviPanda>	 ^d: OH GOD NO
[22:07:07] <^d>	 sumanah: So there you have it. Maven's a little gross, but it gets the job done and it's what most of the java world's gone with.
[22:07:18] <^d>	 For better or worse.
[22:07:29] <^d>	 At least they've settled on something!
[22:07:30] <sumanah>	 Thank you ^d and YuviPanda I totally learned a lot today
[22:07:32] <sumanah>	 yes!
[22:07:42] <fhocutt>	 makes sense. Thanks!
[22:29:01] <Mlpearc>	 Betacommand: Thanx for your help
[23:04:28] <rillke>	 can someone make the djvu tests not spanning the php unit tests?
[23:04:47] <rillke>	 https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/mediawiki-core-regression-master/6741/console
[23:04:55] <rillke>	 "Failed to open 'some-nonexistent-file': No such file or directory."
[23:07:51] <ori>	 yeah, it's annoying
[23:08:33] <ori>	 tim suggested that we add a 'discardStderr' option to wfShellExec()
[23:09:03] <ori>	 there is no command-line option to djvutxt that would make it not spam; I checked
[23:09:30] <ori>	 discardStderr would 2>/dev/null obviously
[23:10:07] <rillke>	 so it seems to be not too difficult to implement ...
[23:10:25] <ori>	 no, probably just a couple of lines
[23:10:42] <ori>	 i've been meaning to do it but i keep putting it off. i'd be happy to review / merge if you submit a patch.
[23:11:26] <rillke>	 ori, in case I'll submit a patch, I'll invite your for code review
[23:11:48] <rillke>	 whether I do it depends on how much annoyed I get by it
[23:12:18] <rillke>	 ori, do you know why xdiff is not installed
[23:13:36] <rillke>	 there is probably no ubuntu package ....
[23:14:43] <ori>	 rillke: I am almost certain that I saw a bug report about shutting up the xdiff tests scroll past in #wikimedia-dev yesterday
[23:15:17] <ori>	 is xdiff popular? wmf doesn't use it -- is it still in common use by other users?
[23:15:43] * rillke is clueless but found https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41683