[00:00:54] hello [00:03:38] Hi. [00:07:31] the link of download for version for Windows? [00:09:01] the link of download of PHP for version of Windows? [00:11:11] Have you tried looking for it yourself? [00:11:23] yes [00:11:32] Then what's your issue? [00:11:44] http://windows.php.net/download/ [00:12:36] which I click? are various options [00:13:05] The one that's appropriate for you and your needs, of course. [00:14:57] but the difference of each? this is all very confusing [00:15:37] This link was what I found [00:17:32] mww113 [00:18:33] mww113: the link of download of PHP for Windows? [00:23:20] Guest99326: I have no idea [00:23:24] I don't use windows [00:33:47] :( [00:43:57] :( [00:53:33] Hi mww113. [00:53:44] Hi Katie [02:49:43] I edited a template included from Main_Page, but Main_Page didn't update [02:50:05] do I have to purge the page's cache? what was the URL to do that? [02:50:43] PovAddict: ?action=purge at the end [02:51:04] yay that worked [09:12:29] Is there a specified timeout in VisualEditor? My collegue told me, that she cannot save her content when she leaves open the VisualEditor for a longer time. [09:17:19] hmrc87: no, there isn't. It sounds like a bug. Please report it. (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/create/) [09:49:23] ori: Ok, I try to somehow reproduce it. Thanks for the info [09:55:55] maybe PHP session expires or something [09:57:07] saper: hey, since you're here -- just a quick note to say thanks for your very useful analysis on the FOUC issue on special:userlogin. [09:57:37] i'll make sure we (=wmf performance team) do something about it this week -- sorry it has taken us a bit of time [09:58:46] ori: my pleasure, I ported two skins and I was wondering all the time what's wrong with my skins - except what I found it on WMF [09:59:28] ori: having a closer look at preferences I tend to think we *need* sync startup scripts - very minimal, very limited, but we might need them :( [12:42:16] saper: I just looked up my php.ini the variable session.gc_maxlifetime = 1440. This means 24 minutes. I am now running a test where I leave the VisualEditor running for 24 Minutes and not doing anything. After 24 min I will write something and try to save [12:58:51] Hi! Is there an example how to create a new wiki page within an extension using MediaWikis internal methods? [13:00:16] Fannon: try looking at the Installer::createMainpage() method, it's fairly simple [13:24:14] @MatmaRex: Thanks for the tip! This looks good [13:40:34] @MatmaRex: Ok, it works - great! [13:45:26] yay [14:41:24] Is there a canonical way to deal with the "class Namespace" issue when resurrecting old wikis and modern phps? [14:55:03] G_SabinoMullane: upgrade MediaWiki. the Namespace class was renamed to MWNamespace in MediaWiki a long time ago [14:58:59] Yes, I am aware of that. Doing forensics to restore data from an old wiki. [15:01:00] Argh, solved Namespace, now three more errors along. Time to see if maintenance/update.php is up to the challenge :) [15:20:02] Waddya know, it worked. [15:22:54] yay! [15:37:05] hi all [15:37:29] i would like to know if it is normal to have a jobtask request each time a page is accessed [15:37:45] i got my apache log flooded with /index.php?title=Special%3ARunJobs&tasks=jobs&maxjobs=1&sigexpiry..... [15:38:22] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Job_queue#Job_execution_on_page_requests [15:38:38] thanks, i am goinng to check your link [15:39:27] ok, i already saw this link before [15:39:37] and my settings is $wgJobRunRate = 0; [15:39:45] which MW version? [15:41:04] version 1.27alpha [16:00:31] ok... i found $wgJobRunRate was bad typed ! [16:00:51] grrr, i wonder why i didn't saw it ealier ! [16:00:57] thanks anyway [16:05:38] We want to put our on-call in a calendar format. Can someone recommend a calendar extension easy to use? [16:08:54] mallu: What is an "on-call" and what does "easy to use" mean in your context? [16:14:13] help [16:14:30] how ? ^_^ [16:14:48] andre_ I want to show a monthly calendar with name of a person per each day [16:14:50] Point your browser to the directory where MediaWiki was extracted and follow the link to the setup screen. It should be in the form http://[domain]/[directory]/mw-config/index.php. Replace [directory] with the path to your extracted MediaWiki folder. If installing on a local machine, replace [domain] with [localhost]. A locally installed wiki will need the LocalSettings.php modified from [localhost] to [domain] if you will ever be [16:15:40] I can not open the wiki [16:16:32] I downloaded the Xampp [16:17:53] i installed Xampp in my computer [16:18:11] what is your computer os? [16:18:26] newwiki: do you have a question? [16:18:50] yes [16:18:56] mallu, no idea if any of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Calendar_extensions covers such functionality [16:19:08] newwiki, feel free to ask that question. [16:19:38] he want to know why he can't acces to his wiki [16:20:04] he said he is on xampp but didn't said his OS [16:20:14] (operating system) [16:20:49] newwiki, what is your operating system ? [16:21:06] I have the following file on my PC: C:\ xampp\wiki\mw-config\index.php [16:21:21] Windows [16:22:37] are you using default xampp configuration ? [16:24:07] according to the manual I put up here says: to open the file C: \ xampp \ wiki \ mw-config \ index.php, enter in google chrome http://localhost/wiki/mw-config/index.php [16:24:29] default xampp configuration is x:\xampp\htdocs\ [16:24:52] so it should be C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki [16:25:05] to be accessible from your browser [16:26:05] can u send here the link of the manual where you saw C: \ xampp \ wiki \ ? [16:26:45] but the same manual says to configure... [16:27:22] I will try what you said [16:28:23] ah my version of Xampp is the penultimate [16:29:34] there is a problem not to use the latest version? [16:32:42] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation_requirements [16:35:43] in fact they are talking about web access to your page in the manual [16:36:39] you may first have read xampp manual who teel you that c:\xampp\htdocs\ is your default folder who will be shared through the web [16:41:11] LocalSettings.php? [16:41:23] that s not a question :D [16:42:53] put you wiki extracted folder in C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki try to access to http://localhost/wiki/ [16:42:58] as I understand it, one has to set up the file LocalSettings.php [16:43:03] you = your [16:45:02] read this https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation_requirements [16:46:25] they said you have to extract wiki files into C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki [16:46:38] then browse http://localhost/wiki/mw-config/index.php [16:47:01] anyway http://localhost/wiki/ may works too [16:47:46] is to configure the file LocalSettings.php? [16:48:31] before doing anything like that, try http://localhost/wiki/mw-config/index.php after you extracted your file, it will configure it for you [16:48:54] if you want to customize Localsettings, first you need to have it working :P [16:49:28] extrated? [16:51:00] unziped or unrared = extracted ;) [16:51:26] are you trolling ? :P [16:51:51] no [16:52:38] did you mean: [16:52:52] you downloaded a .tar.gz who is a compressend file of the full wiki web folder [16:53:28] this .tar.gz need to be extracted (uncompressed with your favorite uncompress tool) to the C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki target directory [16:53:43] once you are done, you can try http://localhost/wiki/mw-config/index.php [16:54:14] (by the way check that all files are in C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki and not in C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki\wiki if you didn't extarcted files correctly) [16:55:45] and continue with personnal message, i dunno if the next thing of the discussion may be enought important to be flooded on main wiki IRC channel [16:56:36] C:\xampp\htdocs\wiki [16:57:46] I put this address [16:58:15] cara o que você está querendo dizer? [16:58:32] que eu estou tumultuando? [16:59:20] i am sorry i don't speak portugues [16:59:23] don't use actual directory called "wiki" if you want short URLs like /wiki/PageName. Use "w" or anything else to avoid problems with rewrite rules [17:00:13] and later you rewrite the url to remove the w :P [17:00:34] i think he need first to have just the basis working xD [17:01:40] if he does it right now he won't have to change it later. i pretty much guarantee he won't like /wiki/index.php?title= [17:01:54] just sayin though [17:03:10] yup, but i dont know if it really matter, why "w" would be better than "wiki" ? 3 letters in less ? cause it is wrote on a post on mediawiki ? [17:03:32] after all, because I do not open anything in the browser? [17:03:33] !shorturl [17:03:33] To create simple URLs (such as the /wiki/PAGENAME style URLs on Wikimedia sites), follow the instructions at or try the new beta tool at . There are instructions for most different webserver setups. If you have problems getting the rewrite rules to work, see !rewriteproblem [17:04:05] Froggiz: it's about hiding "index.php?" as well [17:05:09] in fact w or wiki, rewriting and hidding works [17:05:26] but yea, it is easier to follow the manual ! [17:05:49] try the tool :) [17:06:01] http://shorturls.redwerks.org/ [17:08:00] nice [17:10:36] but what should I do? I have no idea, already installed xampp, already unzipped MediaWiki, and now I do what? I will try to go the link [17:11:02] :( [17:17:16] yup now if you have extraded the wiki file to C: \xampp\htdocs\wiki [17:17:29] you can try http://localhost/wiki/mw-config/index.php [17:20:43] i am sorry newwiki but it is late and i have to go, so just try to do what we said, and tell here the result [17:21:00] ENTER! OPEN! :) :) :) [17:21:31] nice ;) [17:21:37] thank you [17:21:57] no problemo, have a good sierra or something like that ;) [18:07:36] Hello when i attempt to view the atom feed for my wiki i receive the following error: error on line 1 at column 7: XML declaration allowed only at the start of the document [18:13:31] kevindank: can you paste somewhere the XML file you are getting? [18:18:06] saper: sure, i go to special:new pages then choose the atom feed link and it takes me to this page: http://pastebin.com/rCaEtNu7 [18:18:29] now if i view the source of the page it shows me the code of all recent pages [18:19:28] kevindank: can you pastebin "view source" instead? [18:19:43] there is probably some error message inside [18:19:52] which mediawiki version is this? [18:20:21] 1.19 [18:20:30] looking at the view source it really doesn [18:20:33] http://pastebin.com/ddMeVNfK [18:20:48] heres the first half before it starts going into listing all the articles which i didnt share due to security [18:22:37] site is intranet based running off xamp [18:23:07] kevindank: there is a space before i do see that but im not sure which file i need to alter to resolve that [18:23:50] can you check where it's coming from? Something like ?> at the end of LocalSettings.php? [18:24:02] any custom php code, extensions you have configured? [18:24:39] theres no ?> at the end of localsettings.php [18:24:41] nor space [18:25:46] as far as extensions im using semantic mediawiki [18:26:31] adding a closing ?> at the end of localsettings.php does not resolve [18:30:31] no, don't add [18:30:43] remove all trailing instances of ?> you can find [18:31:05] it can be also something in the php.ini or web server config if most of your pages have an extra space [18:31:15] on the other hand, a space should ntot be a problem [18:50:43] ive checked most files ive modified and do not see any issues [18:50:49] any idea what is hould check in php.ini? [18:59:09] hello [19:01:07] in MediaWiki installation, there is a problem. what do I do? [19:02:50] the problem is: database password [19:05:43] the problem is the password database, if you leave the password blank installation does not proceed and also put a password setup does not proceed [19:06:02] Database password can not be blank. You need a database password. [19:06:21] what do I do? [19:07:58] no errors output when i enable error reporting [19:08:42] You set a database password on your database... O_o [19:08:42] I can not install MediaWiki [19:09:38] [19:09:48] sorry hit wrong button [19:11:11] how to set the database password? [19:13:16] first downloaded the MediaWiki then: downloaded Xampp then unzipped MediaWiki, then: put the MediaWiki in XAMMP folder [19:14:04] the database comes with Xampp? [19:14:13] the database comes with Xampp? [19:17:49] I'm already one day to understand how to make a wiki and so far can not. [19:19:25] the database comes with Xampp? [19:23:02] calm down, guy [19:24:11] newwiki: there is some level of setup needed with mysql after you install xampp and place mediawiki in your htdocs folder [19:24:18] did you create a database? [19:24:22] are you using phpmyadmin? [19:24:33] did you choose the installer with mysql? [19:25:21] check for mysql and php my admin in your c:\xampp folder [19:25:24] kevindank: do normal wiki pages have also space? [19:26:27] the Xampp is for Windows [19:26:31] kevindank: mediawiki has an installer that does that + creates LocalSettings.php, maybe something in xampp does that for you [19:27:06] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_XAMPP [19:27:58] Follow the Mediawiki installer's instructions, entering the database name, user name, and password you wrote down during the "creating your database" step above. [19:28:03] Hello [19:28:20] hello worker43 [19:28:34] May i speak to akaWolf for a second? [19:28:38] newwiki: seen ^^ ? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_XAMPP [19:29:00] saper: Normal Wiki Pages do not have that space issue [19:29:14] saper: looking at normal pages i don't see any reference to the atom or xml lines [19:29:14] akaWolf, may i speak to you for a second [19:29:59] is written in the Xampp: Apache, MySQL, Filezilla, Mercury and Tomcat [19:31:39] thank you for page of Xampp [19:31:52] I am with the Wikimedia Foundation, and I need to speak to akaWolf immediately. [19:32:53] ok [19:33:23] Please get him in contact with me immediately. [19:35:05] I do not know [19:35:11] worker43: we don't know, this is just IRC. You might to try to /msg him/her [19:35:25] okay. [19:35:47] akaWolf, you need to respond to this message immediately. [19:36:01] kevindank: no, there shouldn't be any references, except for Recent changes, user contributions, and few others [19:36:02] This is concerning a complain we received against you. [19:36:14] worker43: can you please stop? once is enough [19:36:29] akaWolf, the longer you wait the worse this issue will get. [19:36:35] saper, dont interfere. [19:37:00] worker43: Harassing is not acceptable. Stop this. [19:37:06] worker43, plus I doubt you are "with the Wikimedia Foundation". [19:37:26] and my name is Donald Trump. [19:39:10] why not send an email to him? or speak in the user talk page? [19:40:57] saper: yeah thats what im seeing the only areas i do are the ones you referenced and specifical special:newpages [19:41:10] what im really trying to do is create a feed or new pages that users can subscribe to [19:41:35] ive tried disabling several extensions [19:50:15] my version of Xampp is the penultimate, I think no problem [19:50:24] "I am with the Wikimedia Foundation" [19:50:37] I am! Really! :P [19:50:37] {{cn}} [19:51:46] andre__: We need to see your ID. Can't trust those internet folks [19:52:38] omg outingh [19:55:06] Reedy: Only in person. Come over for a beer and you may see it. [19:55:13] Who's buying? [19:55:15] * Reedy grins [19:55:17] I don't trust those internet technologies [19:55:24] me I guess. It's cheap enough here :P [19:55:53] even more this chat in place more darker of Wikimedia [19:56:49] darker = obscuro [19:57:52] newwiki: Unfortunately, numerous of us have known each other AFK for a few years now ;D [19:58:09] oh, that reminds me of that documentary i was supposed to watch [19:58:15] "The dark side of Wikipedia" [19:58:40] obscuro: "figured" Unknown [20:02:31] that documentary is this? [20:07:38] newwiki: it seems to be just in German. "Die dunkle Seite der Wikipedia" on youtube [20:08:01] i have not seen it. no opinion. [20:08:09] just somebody forwarded it to me [20:08:46] thank you [20:10:06] I'll read about Xampp, hopefully page serves to something [20:11:24] mutante: seen "Truth in Numbers?"? [20:11:53] nope [20:12:03] kevindank: funny, I actually happened to fix some issues with feeds few days ago, but yours seems to be different [20:12:26] mutante: recommended, if you manage to snatch it [20:12:39] saper: ok, thanks [20:12:56] (conflict of interest warning: I helped to organize the premiere screening in Gdańsk in 2010 :) [20:12:58] TBH Saper: Im not sure how long its actually been broken. We've left the site the same and untouched for around 3 years [20:13:15] However a request came in from management asking for a report of newly created pages [20:13:24] great [20:13:27] with the emphasis on RSS feeds, so when i went to look i noticed that [20:13:33] I love to support enterprise installations [20:13:44] I may try to find an alternative solution [20:14:00] kevindank: let me check if I have space on my wikis [20:14:08] thx [20:14:28] kevindank: well, even if there is a problem, you would probably need to upgrade to fix it [20:14:44] kevindank: oh you have nuked the pastebins [20:14:52] can you confirm there is a space indeed? [20:17:27] saper yeah appears to be at the top line [20:17:31] kevindank: can you check your api.php for suspicious spaces [20:17:43] kevindank: is it a real space or a Windows BOM character? [20:17:45] yeah i took a look in there earlier and noticed nothing [20:17:54] BOM is known to break things [20:17:59] Im not sure how to to tell to be honest [20:18:21] kevindank: hire me haha [20:18:42] kevindank: do you have a decent programmer's text editor? [20:18:53] haha nice, however on the side i work on wiki websites freelance [20:18:58] yeah using programmers notepad [20:19:24] I can confirm adding a space gives me a similar error: [20:19:24] honestly i think i just need to update [20:19:24] XML Parsing Error: XML or text declaration not at start of entity [20:19:25] Location: http://tools.wikimedia.pl/~saper/ybabel/api.php?hidebots=1&days=7&limit=50&action=feedrecentchanges&feedformat=atom [20:19:27] Line Number 1, Column 2: [20:19:44] kevindank: can you open api.php and see if there is anything before opening " but your error was column 7 I think [20:21:06] nothing before kevindank: an upgrade done properly should give you clean files. I'd extract into another directory and move images, and later extensions one-by-one, checking compatibility after every one. [20:21:26] saper: you know how to create wikis? [20:21:29] Yeah, i actually double checked and we are on 1.17 [20:22:14] Add the line to the end of the file, using a text editor. It doesn't matter if there are some blank lines above or below the addition. Do not use Windows Notepad, which may add a "Byte Order Mark" (BOM) and muck up the file. Typical symptoms of BOMs include white pages and errors about headers already being sent. To remove a BOM, you'll have to edit the file in a hex editor. Windows WordPad seems to work [20:22:20] fine, as does Notepad++. Removal of BOMs can also be accomplished using the Vim text editor by opening the file in Vim, typing :set nobomb, and resaving the file. If you're using a Mac, TextEdit will also do the job. [20:22:24] newwiki: sure [20:22:41] kevindank: seen that in the pastes [20:50:06] hey all, got a question about mediawiki and apache mpm memory usage [20:50:33] i've read that you can't use the worker mpm since mod_php is not thread safe, so basically stuck with prefork [20:51:13] however, my apache processes average around 100-150mb each so even with a few hundred connections, they can consume all 32 gb of my servers' memory [20:51:38] okay [20:51:43] i feel these servers should easily be able to handle hundreds to thousands of connections but memory usage doesn't bear this out. possible i'm doing something wrong? [20:51:58] jcl_: did you try going for php-fcgi instead? [20:52:12] no, not at all familiar with that [20:52:28] is that commonly used for high traffic wikis? [20:52:34] there will be a separate PHP process running and apaches talk to it [20:52:59] jcl_: many high traffic wikis use nginx, and for that one it is pretty much the only possibility [20:53:06] it works with apache as well [20:53:11] !fpm [20:53:19] i'm using apache 2.2 on ubuntu 12.04 [20:53:48] so i should investigate nginx + php-fcgi? [20:54:05] !fpm is PHP-FPM - A simple and robust FastCGI Process Manager for PHP - http://php-fpm.org/ [20:54:06] Key was added [20:54:12] ^^ [20:55:15] ah ok, i'll read up on that. normally our wikis work fine, but one gets a lot of traffic and sometimes huge spikes that correlate with software updates we release and frequently this overwhelms the servers leading to 502s [20:55:31] jcl_: Check config also. Sometimes apache can be configured to only process so many concurent requests at once [20:55:36] also, do you have caching enabled? [20:56:27] yes, apc. and i've been tinkering with MaxClients and ServerLimit. ServerLimit is 10000 and MaxClients is currently 100, way down from where it was and even that many connections can cause new ones to hang [20:56:42] and varnish on each wiki server, fwiw [20:56:59] my wikis are load balanced across four web servers [20:57:53] is PHP-FPM maintained? I see "news" from 2011 and versions for PHP 5.3 [20:58:32] vulpix: PHP-FPM is finally in PHP core! It is based off of the 0.6.x series in Launchpad, and is now the "officially" supported release. All the different versions of PHP-FPM are below. [21:00:03] we're running php 5.3.10, and php5-fpm in the ubuntu repo matches that version [21:00:49] that web *looks* outdated then, maybe it would be better to link http://php.net/manual/en/install.fpm.php instead [21:00:55] jcl_: you might want to use php 5.6 to get some performance advantages for free, but let's not introduce too many variables, see if it helps with the memory [21:01:02] !fpm del [21:01:03] Successfully removed fpm [21:02:00] php 5.3 is the latest available in ubuntu 12.04 and upgrading to 14.04 is a big undertaking, which i'd like to do but is a project here due to our test/upgrade procedures [21:02:11] !fpm is PHP-FPM is a way to connect PHP to the web server by running a separate PHP process connected via FastCGI: http://php.net/manual/en/install.fpm.php Recommended for heavy load. [21:02:12] Key was added [21:02:35] * saper loves the idea of Linux distributions, confining the users [21:02:46] jcl_: If you're load balanced across multiple servers, you may want to experiment with memcached [21:03:08] we use memcached on two dedicated servers to cache mysql queries [21:03:48] fwiw, i'll go ahead and say that the busy wiki in question is wiki.guildwars2.com [21:04:22] the non-english wikis are a fraction of the traffic, the english one gets hammered though, especially with game updates, hot fixes, etc. [21:05:42] jcl_: you can keep sessions in memcached and cache generated HTML [21:05:45] !memcached [21:05:45] Using memcached can speed up your wiki and is required by certain features. Read more about memcached at [21:06:47] sessions are kept there as well, forgot to say, i.e. $wgSessionCacheType = CACHE_MEMCACHED and $wgSessionsInObjectCache is true [21:07:04] ok, so you are all set [21:07:18] localization cache is where? [21:07:37] local filesystem in each wikis document root, i.e. $IP/cache [21:08:14] $wgUploadDirectory is $IP/images, which is a symlink to a subdirectory of an NFS mount from a central storage server [21:08:39] jcl_: just fyi - newer mediawiki versions are starting to move to a multi-layer cache strategry, where some cache is stored in apc, but things that need to be shared among servers is saved in memcached [21:09:08] we're on 1.24.2 and i'm working on a 1.25 upgrade, though i might skip 1.25 for 1.26 depending on timeframes [21:09:37] good to know, i'll read up in the release notes to understand how caching is changing [21:10:10] jcl_: I'm not sure if that's in 1.26 or 1.27. Just something to look forward to in the future [21:10:25] i'll keep my eyes open, i'm on the announcements list [21:11:04] tbh, though, i've found very little online about running a wiki on a set of load balanced servers, e.g. looking for best practices for upgrades, synchronizing config changes, etc. [21:11:37] i've hacked together some rsync scripts to simplify, but i would love to know how other high traffic sites manage it [21:11:42] jcl_: Yeah, not too many people do it. Just ask in irc channels. Wikimedia is the main people who do that sort of thing [21:12:25] that's what I've gathered. I've asked a bit here before but not a lot of response to that particular set of issues since not many people do that, as you say [21:12:33] bawolff: Which is essentially rsync with a wrapper [21:12:34] xD [21:13:16] rsync filters are a godsend, preventing overwriting of LocalSettings.php, etc. when syncing from dev to stage to live :P [21:13:29] enwiki is a devwiki [21:13:44] Reedy: As evidenced this morning ;) [21:13:51] Actually I use SaltStack for general config management and I'm really eager to try to get MW code and configs managed that way, but that's a big undertaking [21:14:19] yeah, lots of traffic due to HoT and hot fixes, been trying to tune but hitting the problems I'm discussing [21:14:41] jcl_: If you're looking to optimize for performance, you may want to consider profiling a small percentage of requests. That can probably help you determine if any particular area is what is slowing things down [21:14:44] Apache procs are 100-125 mb and servers are 32 GB, doesn't take too much to overwhelm memory [21:15:43] I've not touched MW's profiling stuff in a while, I'll add that to my list of things to investigate [21:16:13] jcl_: You might want to wait until you upgrade though. I think it all changes in 1.25 [21:16:34] i've got 1.25 on my stage systems though it's hard to replicate load there, but I can look at it for details [21:17:37] jcl_: One of the things that often makes mediawiki take a lot of memory, is image rendering. You can use the render on 404 feature to move all that to a separate server, so that it can't overwhelm the main server [21:17:47] Consider upgrading to hhvm if you haven't already [21:18:34] Hmm, haven't run across "render on 404 feature", nor am I familiar with hhvm, adding them to my list of things to investigate [21:18:54] the render on 404 is essentially only rending images when you first need them [21:19:06] MW can precompute thumbs, but you might not need it in most cases [21:19:06] though image rendering hasn't been much of an issue as far as i can tell [21:19:34] i did recently tweak varnish to remove cookies from thumbnail images, which i think has helped a lot especially on certain pages [21:20:36] going back a bit, most of what i've seen about running mediawiki recommends apache, so how well does it work on nginx+fcgi? [21:21:49] less people test it. But plenty people use it. I haven't heard of any complaints about using it [21:22:03] Don't translatewiki use nginx? [21:22:06] * Reedy checks [21:23:12] jcl_: I noticed that it seems like your main page isn't in parser cache [21:23:36] that might have a significant affect on how your wiki handles load [21:23:59] ok, i'll admit i'm not familiar with parser cache [21:24:05] how can you tell that? [21:24:43] look at the HTML source, cached pages usually have a HTML comment saying "saved in parser cache with key ...." [21:24:59] For example Skeleton Key article has: [21:25:07] * bawolff not sure why the main page doesn't though [21:25:30] maybe they have a parser function or something that prevents the page from being cached [21:25:47] wasn't that the effect of having {{CURRENTDAY}} and similar magic words? [21:26:40] No, {{CURRENTDAY}} just reduces the amount of time the parser cache lasts [21:26:44] it will still be there [21:26:56] oh, they're using {{ #dpl: }} [21:26:57] In core, the only thing that kills parser cache is transcluding a special page [21:27:03] i don't manage the content, we leave that to our community [21:27:13] #dpl: does scary things ;) [21:27:16] yeah, still have dpl, way to entrenched despite being heavy smw users [21:27:40] too* [21:28:48] jcl_: So, your wiki will likely be more resiliant if you remove the line $parser->disableCache(); from the dpl extension [21:28:54] but then dpl results might be a little old [21:29:56] I can discuss that with our primary editors since they're far more familiar with such things and understand extensions are being used in our content. [21:30:02] if you replace that line with something like: $parser->getOutput()->updateCacheExpiry( 60*60*3 ); Then it will cause the dpl to reduce cache time to something like 3 hours, which might be a nice compromise [21:30:46] Ok, thanks. I've added that to the list of things to investigate. Great stuff, thank you! [21:30:55] jcl_: This might mean that the 502 type failures you're having are a Micheal Jackson type bug [21:31:18] there's http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=DPL:Manual_-_DPL_parameters:_Other_parameters#allowcachedresults and http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=DPL:Manual_-_DPL_parameters:_Other_parameters#dplcache [21:32:24] jcl_: If you don't change DPL extension, I would reccomend looking into the pool counter extension, which would prevent a cache stampede on the Main page from taking down the rest of your site [21:32:32] "If you set 'allowcachedresults=true', the parser cache will be used", claims on that website [21:33:19] bawolff: Noted, thanks. We definitely won't be getting rid of DPL any time soon due to how entrenched it is, so I'll look into that extension. [21:33:44] Vulpix: ok, making a note of that [21:35:07] While I appreciate all of the advice I'm getting here very much, I'm wondering where (if anywhere) the biggest gains could be made versus what are better as later optimizations. [21:35:33] Probably how PHP is configured/executed, I'd think. [21:36:00] Probably removing the $parser->disableCache() from the dpl extension. That will seriously reduce performance on a busy page [21:37:10] bawolff: Ok, cool. I'll talk with our community DPL expert about the possible impact based on how we use it. [21:38:00] jcl_: How many visits by logged in users do you estimate your main page gets? [21:38:53] like per hour [21:39:15] Actually I'm not sure but we do have Google Analytics so I can find out from there. I'm also working on setting up internal analytics to get a better feel for that as well. [21:39:36] I can ask really quick though for a rough idea... [21:39:46] Its not that important, I'm just curious [21:40:39]