[01:40:54] Hi all. :) Please help me with a [[phab:]] link: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox (https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Project:Sandbox&oldid=2302343) [01:41:26] [[phab:maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=oojs-ui|add task]] (nope, 404) = [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=oojs-ui add task] (yes works ok) [02:53:29] Help how? [03:21:06] Yvette, to me? I would like the first URL to not be 404, I would like it to not encode the URL params in this broken way [03:21:55] gry: Huh? [03:22:06] Just use regular external URL syntax. [03:22:08] It works fine. [03:23:16] Yvette: I would like the link to be styled properly like a sister link and not like an external link [03:23:31] which phab: links are supposed to do [03:23:36] but not this time yet [03:23:41] You can wrap the link in then. [03:33:17] Thanks Yvette I already know of this workaround and I resorted to it for now. But isn't the point of sister links in avoiding that? [03:34:40] gry: Those aren't sister links, they're interwiki links. [03:34:47] They're intended to work with other wikis, not arbitrary sites. [03:35:04] People have been misusing and abusing the interwiki linking system. [03:35:09] why do we have phab: links that way (and had bugzilla: before)? [03:35:11] And consequently hitting "limitations" of it. [03:35:24] Because people like the convenience, I guess. [03:35:58] And they mostly work for basic use-cases, but when you try to re-use a reserved character like "?", things get weird. [03:36:10] ok, sure. let's say I would like to link to Dog?veaction=edit from wikipedia. that's broken right? in sandbox now too [03:36:22] Broken how? [03:36:30] Do you have a page named "Dog?veaction=edit"? [03:36:33] it's a sister wiki, [[:w:Dog?veaction=edit]] is supposed to work [03:36:40] just like it does in url [03:36:48] Supposed to? Says who? [03:36:52] well, do I have a page named "Dog#Eating_habits"? no [03:36:53] but it works [03:37:10] Sure, but section links are part of the same entity. [03:37:28] And the same action (the implicit "view" action). [03:37:45] Anyway, just use a template if you want something fancier. [03:37:56] why are we restricting interwiki links to view action only? [03:37:56] There are plenty of magic words and parser functions available to use in a template. [03:38:10] Because there's a larger and more uniform system called URLs. [03:38:18] if I wanted to link to Dog?veaction=edit using a template, how would I do that? [03:38:20] That work in every browser/client. [03:38:38] The interwiki system is a poor man's version of URLs. [03:38:46] If you want to insert a URL, do that. [03:38:48] It'll work. [03:39:04] gry: You'd start by making a template. [03:39:13] And then passing the page title as a parameter to that template. [03:39:33] hmm, I'll have to presume that interwiki links are for display only on articles which people read, so they don't go outside of that (a talk page where I would like to mention a veaction does not cover that) [03:39:44] So for a template named "ve action edit", it'd be something like {{ve action edit|1= Dog}} . [03:40:05] right [03:40:11] Interwiki links are a hacky shortcut for URLs. [03:40:26] If you're doing anything tricky, you're better off using external URL syntax, usually in a template. [03:40:41] * Yvette makes TimStarling's argument for him. [03:41:22] yeah it seems like we have so many links in articles that using URLs for them would make it easy to break URLs, and in addition to weeding out spam, we would have to spend copious free time fixing broken URLs [03:41:31] if I get it right that is [03:41:55] I'm not sure what you're saying. [03:41:59] URLs break all the time for many reasons. [03:42:11] Sections get renamed, hosts go down or move, etc. [03:42:24] Spam isn't really relevant here. [03:42:42] Templates can mitigate some of this breakage by making it easier to update/change URLs in the future. [03:42:53] I mean, stupid users would edit the wiki pages and break the links, and it would introduce additional maintainance load [03:42:56] With a single edit instead of dozens or hundreds or thousands of edits. [03:43:09] Stupid users do stupid things, sure. [03:43:16] that's why we do not use URLs on wiki pages which zillions of users edit [03:43:17] maintenance * [03:43:31] We use [[links]] because they're convenient. [03:43:34] thanks for correcting that, maybe after a few corrections I start getting it right one day :) [03:43:53] You're asking for URL query support in internal/interwiki link syntax? [03:43:54] When you're writing wikitext, [[foo]] is easier to type than [/wiki/foo foo] or whatever. [03:43:59] Krenair: Yes. [03:44:15] Won't that break cases where a page title includes a question mark? [03:44:19] The biggest obstacle is that page titles can contain ... ^ [03:44:23] Right. [03:44:55] yes Krenair I was expecting it to just work, was a 'what?' moment. thought interwiki links just prepend a beautiful URL at the front and leave parameter intact and all that [03:45:19] not sure in which cases the current approach gives advantages compared with just passing stuff as is [03:47:34] Well right now a question mark in internal link syntax would be encoded [03:47:55] So e.g. [[Ain't I a Woman?]] will become https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain%27t_I_a_Woman%3F [03:48:17] The only reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain%27t_I_a_Woman? works is enwiki editors created a redirect for the non-? version [03:49:06] ah I see [03:49:12] * gry looks [03:50:23] ha, curiously enough page names can not contain # but can contain ?. that's an interesting difference. thanks for showing it :) [03:56:08] hmm [03:56:18] MediaWikiTitleCodec::getTitleInvalidRegex [03:56:41] # encodes as %23 [03:56:55] this is the relevant rule: [03:56:56] # URL percent encoding sequences interfere with the ability [03:56:56] # to round-trip titles -- you can't link to them consistently. [03:56:56] '|%[0-9A-Fa-f]{2}' . [04:01:07] wouldn't be surprised if # was disallowed from titles specifically so it can be used in internal links like that though [05:09:44] Krenair, gry: I think '#' is disallowed in page titles for the same reason '<' and '>' are: because they're special in HTML and/or URLs. [05:10:18] Though we do allow &, so meh. [05:11:28] [, ], and | are disallowed because they're used as part of link syntax, of course. [07:19:44] Good morning everyone! [08:48:45] Morning divadsn! :) [11:25:25] hi [11:30:07] hi Toh_Jia_Xin! [11:30:18] ok [11:33:11] hey all, i'm here from the gci comp [11:36:03] Hi zwliew [11:37:27] I'm also doing gci [11:37:34] The irc task [11:40:19] cool [11:46:06] Welcome everybody! :) [11:46:34] #mediawiki is still pretty silent around these times today; you might see a bit more actions (especially by notification bots) in #wikimedia-dev [12:54:27] andre__: but also because of the bots spamming there I am not active in #wikimedia-dev ;) [13:05:53] divadsn, your irc client may allow to ignore/hide them? :-/ [13:11:37] /IGNORE ought to be supported by pretty much everything [13:32:18] andre__: I only get notifications when the spam bots are mentioning my username, so that's good :) [13:32:35] The Lounge also offers keywords when I would like to get notifications [14:00:10] hi [14:01:27] hi Ritish [14:01:44] How can we help? :) [14:01:50] hello [14:01:57] where are from [14:02:44] it my task [14:02:46] This is the IRC support channel for the MediaWiki software - do you have a question about MediaWiki? (Or are you here for Google Code-in?) [14:04:30] i am from google code in [14:04:42] my name is ritish [14:05:18] i love to work on computer [14:11:04] welcome Ritish [14:18:26] what all ypu love to do in computer [14:26:43] Is it cheating when I claim the IRC task after I installed a open-source client and stayed here for a while? :P [14:50:53] divadsn: probably not unless you already used IRC before GCI , but you can only have 2 beginner tasks anyway (unless rules changed this year) [15:42:47] Nemo_bis, nevermind, I wouldn't choose it as I choose tasks which challenge me a bit :) [17:14:22] Hello everyone! This is Paritosh! :) [17:17:09] hello [17:17:40] welcome to IRC Pari :) [17:18:48] thanks Husun [17:23:25] Can someone tell me how to install a client? [17:26:32] Same as you would any other software for your OS [17:28:13] I was wondering if you are Kid coder Pari ? [17:29:38] I wish I could be called a coder... You can say so, a small scale coder :D @Husun [17:44:21] how to know which client am i using? [17:49:24] Pari, haha [17:50:12] Pari, lets go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients [17:50:33] pick a client, any client (that is not listed proprietary or web-based) [17:57:13] Okay sir selected one now? [17:57:44] don't use formals like sir :) [17:59:02] which one did you choose? [17:59:14] Adium [18:01:21] great [18:01:29] now open the page of adium [18:01:52] and go on its website [18:04:13] * kim_bruning recommends hexchat really [18:04:15] but sure :-) [18:06:39] yeah, hexchat is very popular [18:07:15] hey kim_bruning! [18:07:21] Pari? where you at? [18:08:21] I was searching for the link [18:09:32] Hello Daniel, how's life? [18:10:16] but hexchat is proprietary one [18:10:31] wasn't xchat proprietary, and hexchat oss? [18:10:54] https://hexchat.github.io/downloads.html [18:10:56] they're both OSS [18:10:57] looks just fine from here [18:11:09] but xchat is defunct/dead [18:11:09] fair enough, just xchat charges for windows or something [18:11:16] or something [18:12:00] it was weird, but you could get legitimate builds of xchat for windows for free as well (just not from the official site) [18:12:02] thanks kim :) [18:12:14] basically people fixing up the GPL linux version to work on windows [18:12:20] https://sourceforge.net/p/xchat/svn/HEAD/tree/ <- hum, that doesn't look good [18:12:54] https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat <- this looks a lot saner [18:13:17] kim_bruning: hence but xchat is defunct/dead :) [18:13:56] Skizzerz, sah! you are correct, sah! [18:14:08] (think british accent saying "sir" :-p) [18:22:02] hey downloaded hexchat [18:22:21] but not yet running it ;-) [18:22:54] Installed and ran [18:23:13] * kim_bruning looks at Pari [18:23:23] yay! :) [18:23:24] you're currently connected using qwebirc though [18:23:50] going to connect to freenode with it? ;-) [18:24:21] Hi all. :-) With what? [18:24:39] hey [18:25:10] Hi Puru. [18:25:31] * Husun thanks kim_bruning for helping Pari :) [18:25:36] hello :) [18:25:44] Myself Paritosh [18:25:53] Hi Puru, welcome to irc :) [18:26:05] lookat that , hexchat today :-) [18:26:24] :) [18:26:25] if you log off with qwebirc, you can change your nick using /nick Pari [18:26:49] yea thanks kim_bruning :) [18:26:58] Husun, time for your own irc client too? :-) [18:27:36] hello gry1. fsf cloak eh? [18:27:48] I'm so lazy [18:28:07] Husun, now do I have to post the screenshot of this client? [18:28:09] Husun, programmer laziness exists, you can configure hexchat to log for you, among other things [18:28:26] kim_bruning: I help out by donating, but am not an activist like some other FSF members are. [18:28:48] my windows got re-installed, since then, I forget everytime to install it [18:28:57] Pari, not really [18:29:00] Windows OS, Husun? [18:29:08] yes [18:29:18] Quassel runs quite well on it, although perhaps you may prefer another. [18:29:33] ah, I'll remember that ^ [18:29:41] gry, all fsf donators are awesome :-) [18:29:53] Pari, just stay and chat with us for an hour and then task done [18:29:54] Ta. :-) Glad you're liking the idea. [18:30:56] Husun, okay :), nice task I should say! [18:31:11] haha, ikr [18:31:18] Some people really didn't seem to like the task very much [18:31:24] I don't get why [18:31:29] are we that boring? ^^;; [18:31:52] kim_bruning, i don't think so :P [18:32:05] neat [18:32:07] you too are a mentor? [18:32:14] Nope [18:32:27] Would you believe that this is an actual live channel used by normal people too? ;-) [18:32:27] really? 0_0 i love irc [18:32:48] haha okay [18:32:57] Anyway, while you apparantly only need to stay for an hour [18:33:12] obviously, if you stick around and ask questions later as well, you'll have a huge advantage [18:33:39] :) [18:33:46] the trick is to just ask your question and wait for half an hour or so [18:33:51] we even use irc for just normal random chats too sometimes [18:34:03] if no answer, try again later [18:34:17] but if you're slightly lucky and/or it's the right time of day, you might get lots of help [18:34:35] from people like you [18:34:44] with irc there's no 100% guarantee, otoh you can often get help from actual developers and stuff [18:34:55] Pari, well, maybe not quite like me. I pretend not to know anything ;-) [18:35:08] Though... sure, occasionally even from me [18:35:21] haha thanks :D [18:35:22] (and then 5 other people jump in and explain how to do it even better :-p ) [18:35:55] which is more better [18:37:31] I know, right? [18:37:42] yepp [18:37:54] normally this channel is for help with mediawiki [18:38:05] freenode also has channels for help with lots of other open source software [18:38:17] like if you type /join #hexchat [18:38:19] guess what? [18:38:30] or /join #firefox [18:38:42] or ... what other open source software do you use? [18:38:52] then i will be able to join those channels? [18:39:06] yup! [18:39:09] should do [18:39:21] nice [18:39:23] some might need a nickserv registration [18:39:39] also, depending on what languages you speak, there's also channels for wikipedia on here [18:39:48] all the different languages. Some more active than others [18:40:03] what do you mean by nickserv reg? [18:40:22] /msg nickserv help [18:40:26] but that's for another day [18:40:36] hehe okay [18:40:40] anyway, this particular irc network (freenode) is for organizing all sorts of activities [18:40:51] Pari, you could irc for almost any sort of help, there are channels like physics, math, chem, english etc. [18:40:58] and the /join commands I told you? They open the other channel in a new tab in hexchat, so you can try them right away [18:41:03] and there are some really amazing people there [18:41:28] channels for learning different computer langyuages? [18:41:38] oh yeah, there IS a ##physics on freenode... though freenode does seem to focus on open source projects [18:41:45] Pari, yes, #python #perl [18:42:05] #java too [18:42:10] #php ... [18:42:21] yup [18:42:32] #c++ and a lot more [18:42:34] if i try one then it would open in a new tab? and i won't get logged off from this ? [18:42:37] though note that those channels can be pretty strict on protocol [18:42:43] Pari, that's correct [18:43:01] protocol in a way? [18:43:10] Pari, I just use the text commands each time, just use /join [18:43:16] Pari, well, they might have very strict rules [18:43:29] Pari, it makes sense to listen on one of those channels and see how other people do first [18:43:38] Pari, though YMMV, some channels are very welcoming :-) [18:43:51] okay [18:44:40] In channels for python and all do they teach or just solve your queries? [18:45:14] Pari, it's normal people, so it depends on what you ask, and what people have time for [18:45:32] Pari, well its not like they give lectures or anything :D, they'll answer you if you ask anything [18:45:40] if they're busy they might go "ask a question, make sure you have everything on pastebin, and hurry up" [18:45:51] if they're not busy, they might take all the time you need :-) [18:46:09] Husun, I have given lectures on IRC before. 'twas fun! [18:46:14] on java, in fact [18:46:23] ... that might have been last century by now, though [18:46:29] whoa, that is so cool! [18:46:31] may I ask something stupid? [18:46:35] haha [18:46:51] I ask stupid questions all the time, Pari. :) [18:47:00] I second with gry1 [18:47:04] Pari, No. And you just asked something stupid, so your quota is depleted ;-) [18:47:11] haha [18:47:27] Pari, next time, be smart and just ask a question, no matter how stupid you think it is ;-) [18:47:39] there's no stupid question except "May I ask something (stupid) ? " [18:47:44] How should I start to learn a language from scrap> [18:48:00] Pari, do you know any languages already? [18:48:17] umm yea C and a bit of python [18:48:24] Pari, and do you want to know for programming languages (java, c, lisp, python) , or natural languages (English, German, Japanese, Russian) [18:48:27] Hi everyone [18:48:34] Pari, how'd you start learning those? [18:48:42] you can go for codecademy for the basics [18:48:45] Pari, usually there's tutorials for beginners online [18:48:58] Husun, new fangled stuff :-P [18:49:03] programming languages [18:49:33] Pari, One way is to go onto a programming language irc channel and go "I'd like to learn this language, what's a good tutorial for a beginner" ;-) [18:49:34] haha [18:49:38] I learned them from tuitions [18:49:40] Acctually, the only thing you must know is one programming languahe [18:49:59] or at least learn one at a time [18:50:01] rlot, you can even know 0 programming languages ;-) [18:50:06] Others are really relative [18:50:09] Good evening (or morning, or afternoon, depending where you live I suppose) everyone :) [18:50:16] Vidminas, good timezone to you too [18:50:22] haha hello [18:50:32] I learned Python and C++ first [18:50:42] Pari, which language would you like to know more about? [18:50:46] c++ before c? [18:50:51] python [18:50:57] and java [18:50:58] cool [18:51:05] C is just C++ without objective [18:51:07] so type /join #python for instance [18:51:09] programming [18:51:31] I learned C++ before C as well - it's less of an eyesore for a beginner imho [18:51:34] rlot, there might be a tad more to it than that [18:51:57] i will join that channel tomorrow probably [18:52:10] I can preffer to learn Python first. If you know basics (Class, if, loops etc), everything is simple [18:52:24] Also learning some hardware is a good start [18:52:28] i won't be able to learn anything today [18:52:29] Arduino for example [18:52:50] rlot, hey! learn hardware from? [18:52:58] Pari, no, but you can join the channel already , and just see what people are talking about [18:53:07] okay [18:53:18] Pari, so what's the next task on your list after "join irc" ? :-) [18:53:46] Pari: Theres a lot of tutorials for that, making hardware is fun, becouse you make something that works [18:53:58] Is everyone here just because of Google Code In? :D [18:54:06] Vidminas, no [18:54:16] Vidminas, some people are here because it's a normal channel on #freenode :-) [18:54:28] Vidminas, we do have a lot of visitors at the moment, oddly enough ;-) [18:54:36] Vidminas, I wonder why that is? O:-) [18:54:46] kim_bruning, let's see, not decided yet [18:54:58] rlot, thanks will try that [18:55:00] Pari, what options do you have? [18:55:06] Pari, which type of tasks will you go for? [18:55:10] Pari, and do at least test out /join for a minute :-) [18:55:16] code? [18:55:19] Pari, consider it part of the IRC task ;-) [18:55:45] doing kim_bruning [18:55:50] haha, I agree with kim_bruning [18:55:53] yay [18:55:58] \o/ [18:56:23] Husun, these tasks require good coding and I am not good at that [18:56:27] hmm, I don't see Pari on #python yet.... maybe they DO need a nickserv thing [18:56:37] Pari, aren't they for learning? :-) [18:57:21] Btw, making harder tasks, are more pointed than normal? [18:57:21] joined #python [18:57:53] nickserv? [18:57:55] Pari, did you mean /join #python [18:58:19] yes I have joined that channel [18:58:28] hum, I don't see you though :-/ [18:59:01] shall i send a chat on it? [18:59:07] kim_bruning, I see Pari in #python-unregistered [18:59:29] IRC auto-sends people there who do not have a registered nickname [18:59:46] so shall i consider my task completed? [18:59:50] You've been put here because #python requires you to register your nickname with Freenode. For more information about registering on Freenode, ask #freenode. [18:59:51] Pari, ah, we'll probably meet again if you continue with documentation tasks :) [19:00:02] Pari, yes ;D [19:00:33] Pari, I suppose so. Though we can walk you through nick registration if you want :-) [19:00:43] or come back some other time, or ask on #freenode, or etc :-) [19:01:04] yes I will go on with documentation tasks too [19:01:49] husun, may I submit my task for review? [19:01:58] ofcourse [19:02:24] Husun, you're a coordinator? :-) [19:02:40] kim_bruning, what's the procedure for nickname registration? [19:02:53] Just type: [19:03:15] yes, a mentor [19:03:23] :) [19:03:31] ./msg NickServ REGISTER password mail [19:03:47] And you'll get message on your mailbox [19:04:06] (leave off the first . from what rlot said) [19:04:32] /say /say something means you have a / in front [19:04:54] ./msg NickServ Register Pariaish kakkar.aish98@gmail.com [19:05:08] oops what did i do :P [19:06:21] kim_bruning, Husun, what is this chat for exactly? Anything? [19:06:49] Pari, you didn't leave out the "." [19:07:06] Vidminas, the channel you are in specifically is for mediawiki support [19:07:18] Vidminas, just realised :P [19:07:24] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki [19:07:55] Vidminas, or ... what is your question? [19:08:15] Husun, please approve my task! :) [19:08:37] Pari, well , if you registered, you can now join #python proper :-) [19:09:27] kim_bruning, I was curious whether #mediawiki was meant for something specific, "support" answers my question, thank you :) [19:10:35] Oh hey, all the mentors are listed here, Husun included: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in_2016 [19:10:51] kim_bruning, did :D [19:11:25] Vidminas, this chat as in for the task or the channel? [19:11:47] Pari, Yeah, I about to do that, got distracted by music [19:12:04] Husun, haha np :) [19:12:19] Husun, the channel itself, the task seems to not include any specific instructions [19:13:59] legoktm: hey, this patch is sitting there for a while. It's really difficult to set up a CentralAuth in localhost to test. But it looks good: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/291595/1 [19:15:09] Thank you Husun, kim_bruning, rlot and Vidminas for your time and help :) [19:15:25] It was fun chatting with you guys :D [19:15:29] Pari, see ya [19:15:41] yw [19:18:19] Pari, come back soon! [19:18:19] see ya :) [19:18:33] Did you notice #python changing color in your window? :-) [19:18:50] haha yea [19:18:59] that's because someone waved to you there :-P [19:19:02] And see ya! [19:19:38] :D [19:27:04] Vidminas, well, generally, its for discussing the mediawiki software, and its bugs but we go off-topic oft [19:27:20] often* [19:27:48] Husun, what's the difference between this channel and wikimedia-dev then? [19:28:55] Vidminas: not much, in practice. this channel doesn't have the noisy bots. [19:30:51] MatmaRex, Husun, are you wikimedia devs? [19:31:44] Vidminas, wikimedia-dev kinda includes problems from almost all of wikimedia projetcs [19:32:02] and this one is just intended for the software mediawiki [19:47:57] Vidminas: Hi and welcome! :) [19:48:14] andre__, hello [19:48:19] For most IRC channels, the channel topic describes what it's for :) [19:49:26] andre__, I saw something about ostriches upon joining the channel, but am not sure where to find the topic itself [19:49:41] Huh? [19:50:12] this: Topic for #mediawiki set by ostriches!sid111136@mediawiki/demon (Mon Nov 28 21:16:20 2016) [19:50:19] Indeed, I did :) [19:50:21]