[00:06:14] Doesn't sound normla. [00:06:15] normal [00:19:35] Ivy: The inputbox preload parameter seems to require a particular page that has the content you want preloaded, but how can I feel the textbox of the inputbox into some of that preload content, i.e. the template in which I want to pass something into? [00:20:38] JustBerry: You're not making much sense. [00:22:44] Ivy: It makes more sense in context, of course. Examining this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JustBerry/EoTW_Nominations. Let's say I make a template called {{popcorn}} (for simplicity). When a username is entered into the textbox and the button is clicked, I just want {{popcorn|username}} to end up on the bottom of the page. Does that make more sense? [00:22:58] end up on the bottom of the page, i.e. preloaded in an edit window of that page. [00:23:16] Yeah, that's a lot more concrete, at least. [00:24:17] Ivy: Sure. I'll leave it open to the channel if anybody has any ideas. [00:24:29] JustBerry: Did you read the documentation? [00:24:44] Ivy: Yes. Spent a good amount of time doing so. [00:25:37] The preload parameter for inputboxes requires a particular page with content. But, even if I put {{popcorn}} on that "preload page," I can't magically just slip in the text from the textbox into that template and have it preload onto a page. [00:31:01] JustBerry: https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/InputBox is a start. [00:38:48] If you're going to make some subpage, you could probably re-use that with #titleparts: or something. [00:38:53] If you want the page title? [00:39:12] InputBox seems primarily designed for creating a page, so when you say "{{popcorn|username}}", it's a bit ambiguous. [01:26:43] Ivy: how about adding a new section to a page; there's a lot of functionality with that I think [01:37:00] JustBerry: Sure. [01:37:51] JustBerry: If you look at how the pages/templates on test.wikipedia.org are working, it may give you some ideas. [01:45:29] Ivy: The real question to be answered is whether the actual text from the inputbox text box can be used in that preloadparams parameter. [02:14:14] An empty "what links here" page seems to return status 404 - yet appear "all good" - this normal? (Rpost) [02:14:41] Alec: I believe Ivy had mentioned that it doesn't sound normal. [02:17:08] No one test it for me? Just open firefox right click and use the "insepect element" pain on your own wiki, see what it produces. [02:17:22] I've got a warning about it from Google's crawler, but I have no idea why. [02:18:01] Nothing's changed [02:18:48] I've confirmed this on a new firefox profile myself. And with wget but I cannot confirm if it's normal [02:20:15] (All my wikis that I have access to internally are on the same machine with the same user you see) [02:20:29] 3 exhibit this behaviour, but they could have all been tampered with [02:23:54] * Alec has of course checked modified dates recursively [02:30:11] Seems to be normal as far as I can tell [02:31:24] Alec: Oh, yeah, sorry, a 404 will happen, yeah. [02:31:49] The English Wikipedia has the same behavior. [02:31:52] > [02:31:55] $ curl -s -IXGET "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Some_invlaid_title" | head -1 [02:31:58] HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found [02:31:59] > [02:32:14] I should have checked there - I thought as it's modified *ALOT* from Mediawiki I wouldn't bother. [02:32:16] Thanks Ivy. [02:32:28] No problem. [02:32:56] (Oh also I didn't want to find a page with no links to it) [02:33:51] Maybe related to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T4585 [02:34:30] I knew we did this for regular article pages, but I didn't think we changed the status code for Special:WhatLinksHere. [02:34:42] Yeah looking at that it's a bit older than my build, we're still using 1.24 [02:35:20] It doesn't hurt at all, the public wiki for documentation gave the webmaster (not me) a letter about more 404s than usual with 1 page mentioned and no info on how many. I was just being paranoid. [02:35:35] Did what exactly? [02:36:01] A long time ago, all pages returned HTTP 200 unconditionally. [02:36:23] And we changed their behavior to return an HTTP 404 if the page had been deleted or never existed. [02:36:31] But Special pages are kind of different. [02:37:15] Oh I thought it'd be because of the absence of content, the query "what links here?" for the page - no data exists (or some similar argument) [02:37:22] For example, Special:Search/fdjsafisadfs would not give you a 404. [02:37:27] Maybe? [02:38:04] * Alec was reading the page then - I don't see the redirect problems, you can just use referrer information or redirect with "from=..." at the end - oh right that affects the "purity" of HTTP - yeah I get it. [02:38:35] Redirects were a separate weird case, yeah. [02:39:15] I think the api.php end-point also had open questions regarding HTTP status codes. [02:39:59] Ivy while you're here, purely out of curiosity I've always wondered what a wiki would look like "as a graph" graphviz exists, but I don't care enough to (learn just enough to) create a script for it, anything exist? Forgive the subject change, presumably you get it, now I do, little point in continuing is all. [02:40:28] Alec: You mean like wiki pages in Git? [02:40:55] Alec: https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki/commit/8b356fda [02:42:37] The subject of putting a wiki into a graph system like Git has been discussed previously. [02:46:43] Ivy: no? [02:46:48] WTF do you think a graph is! [02:47:43] Ivy: sweet jesus that was a big netsplit. [02:48:03] I asked WTF you think a graph is - rhetorically. It's got nodes and edges and "digraph" and shit. [02:48:17] BTW that probably means you don't know about graphviz - graphviz is hella-useful. [02:54:11] Alec: Git is a graph, bro. [02:54:28] But I see now you probably mean more like visualizing links between pages. [02:54:42] There are existing tools that do that. [02:54:47] And it's been discussed a bunch, yeah. [02:55:24] Okay if we're doing that - the states of a turning machine coupled with the tape also form a graph [02:55:27] So what isn't? [02:55:31] Heh, you posted to my talk page? [02:55:35] No? [02:55:44] https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=2793600&oldid=2789355&rcid=3530640#Alec [02:55:48] Somebody did! [02:56:40] JustBerry? [02:56:42] 2c0f:f930:0:3::221 <--not me [02:56:45] Okay. [02:56:48] Dunno who it is. [02:56:51] Anyway, [02:56:59] Alec: What? [02:57:09] Why? [02:57:18] We'll never know who 2c0f:f930:0:3::221 is. [02:57:30] Though probably somebody currently or once in here. [02:58:03] I want a brownie? [02:58:15] JustBerry PMed me earlier with creepy Qs and my rebuff wasn't that polite [02:58:23] But yeah 3 supporting IPv6? Lol [02:58:52] Alec: The only question I asked was what your username was because I couldn't tell the legitimacy of your messages. [02:59:05] person: Nyahn Watson [02:59:05] address: Broad Street 80 [02:59:05] address: Monrovia [02:59:07] address: Liberia [02:59:08] We don't usually ask for usernames in here. [02:59:36] I live in a country that people know the name of so don't even have to wonder "is that even a real place?" - that guy doesn't [02:59:53] I did not ask for a username in here. If a user PMs me, there should be some accountability for the things they are claiming to me via PM. [03:00:03] Apparently it's 02:59 in that fictional place [03:00:17] Liberia is a real country, I think. [03:00:21] I don't mind answering general questions, of course. [03:00:21] -JustBerry- TIME May 28, 2018, 11:00:07 PM EDT .... my sleuthing failed. [03:01:00] Alec: Please do not mis-construct or falsely claim things I have said via PM in a public channel. [03:01:22] I apologise to everyone for giving evidence that showed it wasn't JustBerry - my bad. [03:01:45] Anyway Ivy WRT the graph thing I meant articles. With the edges being "links to" [03:01:54] Right. [03:02:01] There are existing visualization tools of that data. [03:02:08] And it's been discussed and written about. [03:02:44] Yeah I can't imagine it'd be hard, especially not for small wikis, I imagine the relation of "links to" is stored in the DB [03:03:02] Yes, in the pagelinks table mostly. [03:03:17] There are other types of links tables such as categorylinks and externallinks and such. [03:03:33] So I was thinking if you knew of one, I can save the effort and sate a mild curiosity I've had for a few years (too mild to justify doing it) - if you don't I could perhaps do it. [03:03:51] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=links%20pages%20wikipedia%20visualizer [03:04:09] I meant for mediawiki [03:04:17] Oh, dunno. [03:04:25] A 5,000,000 node graph (or even the top few %) would be too big to "visualise" [03:04:29] I mean, there's also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GraphViz [03:04:36] If you want to use GraphViz in MediaWiki. [03:04:40] Probably for using graphviz in page markups [03:05:12] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SiteGraph [03:05:28] Do you know what it is? If not it's really REALLY worth looking at, it's a brilliant bit of software that solves a common problem, but also a problem which is crazy difficult to do "algorithmically" [03:05:43] The syntax is simple too [03:05:53] I'm vaguely familiar with it. [03:06:37] I'm not sure it's much different from most of the other existing graph/visualization tools. [03:06:52] Graphviz and Make are two tools I really push people to learn about as they're extremely versatile. Graphviz, Make and some programs for generating data and graphs were a large chunk of my thesis. [03:07:17] Heh, some dumb troll on mediawiki.org now. [03:08:05] Graphviz *IS* the existing graph visualisation tool BTW. There are a few things (I needed a Javascript one once) - but they're usually "half-assed" as laying out a graph is surprisingly hard. Graphviz has a lot of algorithms, a lot of heuristics (and a few different solvers, like radial graphs and such) and is great at "doing the correct thing" [03:10:35] !admin or something. [03:10:35] To recreate the admin user, run "php maintenance/createAndPromote.php" on the command line. [03:10:40] Thanks, wm-bot. [03:10:41] Hey Ivy, you are welcome! [03:10:54] The worst. [03:10:59] snerk [03:11:12] foks: Are you an admin?????? [03:11:23] nope :( [03:12:01] If I make you one, can you clean up this mess? [03:12:38] Oh, musikanimal is on it. :-) [03:12:44] I did the page deletions. [03:12:48] But I don't have the rollback links. [03:12:57] And I'm too lazy to re-enable them or something. [03:13:47] done! [03:14:15] musikanimal: Thanks. <3 [03:14:27] * Ivy eyes foks. [03:14:27] np [03:25:20] Ivy you have ssh access to mediawiki servers? [03:37:56] Ivy? [04:01:54] he doesn't [05:07:25] legoktm: Depends which MediaWiki servers!!!!!!!!!! [05:18:53] when i search for a page in mw, and get the "create this page" link. is there some way to make mw default to creating the page in the visual editor rather than source editor? [05:21:47] probably, is my guess [05:29:48] k-man: For your account or all accounts? [05:29:52] harmaahylje: Nice guess. [05:32:15] Ivy, for all accounts. I found you can edit the text for MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new [05:32:19] which is pretty cool [05:32:24] Great! [05:32:35] I think VisualEditor itself has some configuration over which editor is the default. [05:32:39] !e VisualEditor [05:32:39] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor [05:32:51] ah ok [05:33:18] $wgDefaultUserOptions['visualeditor-enable'] = 1; <-- This and related. [05:33:26] it is the default for me I think, but things like the "create that page" are generated via template strings from what I can see [05:35:16] yeah, i have that setting in my config already [05:35:27] anyway, sorted it. thanks for your help [05:35:33] No problem. [05:35:37] k-man: You may find ?uselang=qqx useful. [05:35:50] It reveals message names in the user interface. [05:36:03] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard?uselang=qqx [05:36:16] (nstab-project) --> MediaWiki:Nstab-project [05:39:26] h so cool! [05:39:57] what is that? [05:40:42] Hm? [06:40:58] what is "MediaWiki:Nstab-project"? [07:19:10] Is there a possibility to insert a blank
inside an HTMLForm $formDescriptor? I looked at 'type' => 'info', but that doesn't help me much since it includes the info at the bottom of the page [07:32:26] tkore: you mean nothing but a div? or do you want it encased in the normal form field HTML? [07:32:46] samwilson, nothing but a div. [07:33:04] for injecting something with JS? [07:33:07] even though a normal form field wrapper would do as well - but i'd prefer just an empty div [07:33:12] yup [07:34:15] can you add an empty info field, and then remove the unwanted bits in JS? [07:34:41] I tried adding an info field, but it's just being moved by the parser to the end of the document :S [07:35:06] I -could- move it using JS, but.... I'd rather not. My reviewer is a evil ;P [07:35:11] is evil* :P [07:35:29] the parser? how are you adding this form? [07:36:19] a new HTMLForm instance [07:36:25] via a $formDescriptor [07:36:51] but where does the parser come into it? is it a parserfunction ? [07:37:55] nevermind, i didn't mean parser in the MediaWiki sense. I was just referring to the way the document renders. The info field is being rendered at the end of the document instead of whereever I was inserting it (for example, after a textarea element) [07:38:18] oh right. that sounds odd. you should be able to put it where you want [07:38:34] is the form not being created in the order you specify in the formdescriptor? [07:38:45] exactly 🤔 [07:38:53] idk why :S [07:39:11] everything else seems fine. the info element is the only one acting up for some reason [07:40:14] hm not sure. you could ask at https://discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org/ and post the code you've got so far [07:52:14] alright, thanks! [07:58:47] tkore: type=>info is the right way to do it [08:00:11] there is some flag to avoid wrapping it in the usual row markup [08:00:39] rawrow => true [08:00:49] yup, tried both ways :) [08:00:56] it goes through some preprocessing i guess. [08:01:38] it shouldn't [08:02:17] at least with a normal HTMLForm - no clue what happens if you use OOUI [09:26:39] ok, got it sorted. i have no idea why it was moved to the bottom before or how i fixed it, but now it appears where it should o_O [13:36:42] trying to dumpBackup.php -> importDump.php from one machine to another ... and failing. I keep loosing the uploaded images, despite --uploads --include-files ... could use some help ... [13:38:06] Have you read what the documentation says? [13:38:07] $this->addOption( 'uploads', 'Include upload records without files' ); [13:38:15] $this->addOption( 'include-files', 'Include files within the XML stream' ); [13:38:23] Oh... [13:38:33] That's supposed to include the files themselves? o_0 [13:38:44] Are they in the outputted file? [13:40:06] i would be fine if i have to manually copy the files, but i have the impression that the table isn't included ... [13:40:22] ( or not imported ... let me compare the xml streams ) [13:43:31] ... ok the the dump contains the info ... so it seems the import doesn't handle that part ... [13:43:55] importDump.php does say... [13:43:55] $this->addOption( 'uploads', 'Process file upload data if included (experimental)' ); [13:46:30] oh [13:48:26] ... i seem to have missed that ... been mostly following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:DumpBackup.php and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps [13:49:24] The comments could be pretty old [13:49:33] It's also possible it's just not been tested/worked on recently [13:51:17] Yeah... That comment has been there at least 7 years [14:05:55] Reedy: thanks a lot ...! I'm just not yet sure if i should be happy now for getting errors or not :D [15:31:38] Sooo, I'm going to attempt on upgrading really old installation of mediawiki. [15:31:41] 1.19. [15:32:15] Sounds fun [15:32:43] Fortunately from preliminary check it seems that we didn't use many extensions and all have replacements. [15:32:50] Or got upgraded in some way. [15:33:24] https://bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ << only thing I don't know anything about is this. [15:37:37] php7 people, do you know why this is happening? https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T195868 [15:47:28] Furai: I recently did the same, from 1.19 to 1.28 or something like that [15:57:27] harmaahylje, and? Did you encounter any difficulties? [16:04:51] plenty [16:05:09] mostly about extensions [16:06:35] it was a lot of work to sort it out, ~10 wiki sites on the same wiki, each with different configs [16:13:10] Uh, backup done. [16:13:23] Btw, is cache needed to back up when used? [17:55:40] hi, question, is there any way I could access the mobile version of a MediaWiki from a desktop if the wiki has no special subdomain (e.g. en.m.wikipedia.org) ? [17:56:20] from what I can tell, MediaWiki, for example at Wikipedia, does not have a single responsive design [17:59:21] norbert: ?useformat=mobile [18:02:10] so, https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page?useformat=mobile ? [18:02:25] Yup, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2018?useformat=mobile [18:02:54] but the link doesn't give me a mobile view [18:03:01] does it require a plug-in maybe? [18:03:30] Project Gutenberg probably has a mobile version [18:03:36] Do you have the MobileFrontend extension installed? [18:03:36] but maybe also only with a specific subdomain [18:03:48] https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page?useformat=mobile [18:03:50] they probably do [18:03:56] I could check on my mobile phone, one moment [18:03:57] Nope, https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Special:Version [18:04:05] hm, weird :) [18:04:47] They're also running an unsupported version of MW too [18:07:48] yeah, I also checked it on my mobile now and they indeed have a desktop version of their site for everyone [18:08:00] that's strange, it's a quite well-known websites [18:08:02] -s [18:10:19] anyway, thanks for the info [18:31:17] Hi - does anyone know why Diffusion isn't showing the code for the new(-ish) VEForAll extension? https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/EVFA/ [18:31:33] The code for it does exist: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/extensions/VEForAll/+/master [18:31:52] Is there some missing file or configuration somewhere? [18:32:01] Or is there a better place to ask this question? [18:33:14] #wikimedia-releng I guess [18:35:14] Reedy: thanks. [19:13:23] Hello there, [19:13:46] May I know whom I am talking to please? [19:16:21] Hello ? [19:17:58] sogmad2018: there are hundreds of people here. [19:18:20] I have to wait my turn? [19:18:54] go ahead [19:19:17] sorry , I am all new to this thing ... if I do something odd , please forgive me. [19:20:06] My question is about "This article may have been created or edited in return for undisclosed payments" . I had no idea paying off for developing the website is a crim. [19:20:45] hello, can you help me? [19:20:47] as you can see hundres of people online doing this for living. [19:21:08] our page is being marked as violation and dont know how to remove it. [19:21:40] sogmad2018: it sounds like you should ask your question on the #wikipedia channel, not here. [19:22:18] sure , I will go there, sorry again. [19:22:56] !ask | Steven__ [19:22:56] Steven__: Please feel free to ask your question: if anybody who knows the answer is around, they will surely reply. Don't ask for help or for attention before actually asking your question, that's just a waste of time – both yours and everybody else's. :) [19:24:06] Hi I speak Italian so my English will not be fully correct using Google Translate ... I bought an aruba domain and I installed mediawiki and I wanted to be helped to change the editor [19:24:31] dont worry steven, Yaron responded . Thanks [19:25:25] Thanks so much [19:28:14] Steven__: what do you mean by "change the editor"? Do you want to install VisualEditor or something? [19:29:18] Yes Yaron, I thought it was simply being installed via ftp [19:31:38] I would like to install 2017 wikitext editor [19:35:38] Just to be clear - do you know if the editor that you want to install is the one called "VisualEditor"? Is it the one that looks like this - https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma?veaction=edit ? [19:36:35] yes [19:37:31] you can't install that with ftp alone [19:38:17] it requires installing and running other services (parsoid and maybe also restbase), which requires at the very least shell/ssh access, but ideally also administrator/root access to the machine to set it up as a service [19:40:04] so it is not possible to install any editor other than the default one? [19:40:17] what level of access do you have to the server? [19:41:13] or perhaps a better question is who is hosting your server? [19:41:57] Aruba [19:42:00] only ftp [19:42:28] Steven__: then you cannot install VisualEditor, unfortunately [19:43:18] Steven__: another option is to use the TinyMCE extension: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TinyMCE [19:43:30] It's not as good as VisualEditor, but it is a lot easier to install. [19:44:11] I'm very sad about this news, I liked it a lot, but I need a simpler editor for users [19:45:22] thanks Yaron, now I try to install this [19:47:11] load the folder into extensions and then add the string to the right localsetting.php? [19:48:31] Steven__: yes, that's all that should be required... [19:54:37] I can not try tomorrow calmly ... [20:02:09] I wonder what he meant by that... [20:10:16] :D