[02:53:40] i have a big subject i wish to document on a local wiki, I am considering using a namespace for that topic [02:53:45] but is that the right approach? [02:54:34] nm, i'll ask on libera [02:57:05] I tried to change the title of https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page to read "Welcome to MOMA" instead of "Main Page", I did this by changing the body text at https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Mainpage-description accordingly. It did not work, so I edited https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Mainpage-description text back to "Main Page", but now the wiki logo goes to a URL the reads https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki [02:57:05] /Welcome_to_MOMA" an empty page that could be created [02:57:06] I cannot revert to the orginal version of https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Mainpage-description in Show Changes because my revision and the original text are the same (i.e. Main Page). [02:57:09] I want clicking the logo to go to .../Main_Page not a non existent page ... /Welcome_to_MOMA(edited) [02:58:32] rosie, where are you? it looks like a relay, and i don't see you here properly [02:58:46] Australia [02:58:53] no, i mean what irc network [02:59:02] freenode [02:59:27] I just reading the migrating message and trying to work it out [03:00:19] The message is from bridgebot [03:00:56] At the moment can talk on that channel and here we can answer [03:01:07] https://moma.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AMainpage-description&type=revision&diff=68&oldid=67 [03:01:11] this page has two revisions [03:01:52] I can't work out how to go back to the original before revisions [03:03:51] do you see an undo link in the right column? [03:06:22] No. Under Edit or View History tab? [03:08:02] Oh Yes I found it! [03:10:44] It still goes to Welcome_to MOMA on logo click, I will try clearing cache. [03:13:55] https://moma.miraheze.org/ in browser goes to https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/Welcome_to_MOMA after clicking undo and clearing cache [03:18:09] rosie, edit https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Mainpage [03:19:09] How Sir Galahad? [03:20:03] Oh, I get it ;-) [03:20:12] If you're an admin on moma, just click on edit and tada! [03:20:20] LOL [03:20:52] Remove "Welcome to MOMA" or replace with another text [03:21:13] Some how the content seems to have changed. Any how I can copy and paste. THX Galahad [03:22:24] Copy and paste the content on MediaWiki:Mainpage? [03:27:02] Yes, from https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [03:27:17] Is that what you meant? [03:27:32] Nope, MediaWiki:Mainpage is just for point your main page [03:27:57] By default point to https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page [03:28:58] But you edited and point to https://moma.miraheze.org/wiki/Welcome_to_MOMA [03:29:44] Just delete "Welcome to MOMA" and will be setted with default config [03:31:01] rosie c;iclomng the logo takes me to main page [03:31:03] Oh.. So If I want a different title then I can create a new page, say "Welcome_to_MOMA" and then if I type "Welcome to MOMA" in to /MediaWiki:Mainpage-description , then wiki will redirect to new main page? [03:31:22] rosie, https://moma.miraheze.org/ redirects to the welcome_to_moma page though [03:31:31] yes it is corrent [03:31:50] THX I am trying it now [03:33:04] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:FAQ#How_do_I_change_which_page_is_the_main_page? [03:45:08] wm-bb THANKS A MILLION, that was a lot easier than trying to change the title of the Main Page. Job done :-) [03:47:40] (wm-bb is just a bridge bot since we're in the process of migrating networks away from freenode, the actual person talking is in the <> in front of the message) [03:48:46] moonmoon you rock :-) [03:49:32] they definitely do :D [03:50:19] legoktm rocks too :). Anyway glad that you were able to get your issue resolved [04:03:01] Thank you all. Enjoy the rest of your respective days :-) [06:44:15] Please head over to this channel on libera.chat as described in the topic. See you all there! [14:05:17] If the permission of `LocalSettings.php` is changed to 600, is that going to be a problem? [14:06:36] the webserver process needs to be able to read localsettings [14:06:45] so that depends on which user owns the file [14:07:24] ideally the webserver process can read it but not write it or any other files except uploads [14:07:43] I don't think 600 will be enough, but could be wrong [14:09:44] Looks like root owns everything. [14:11:19] Leaderboard -- who is running the apache server? [14:11:31] www-data [14:11:42] (from ps -ef | egrep '(httpd|apache2|apache)' | grep -v `whoami` | grep -v root | head -n1 | awk '{print $1}' [14:11:44] ) [14:11:53] apache2 uses www-data on debian [14:12:16] In that case, chowning the directory for www-data, will that suffice to then go for 600? [14:13:13] Also it seems that I need to go all the way to 777 to be able to upload something - 755 isn't enough. What should chmod be for the upload directory? [14:13:55] Leaderboard -- I think you should first chown the dir for www-data. [14:14:22] acagastya: chown www-data, but for various security reasons my suggestion is have the files owned by someone else than www-data and make the group www-data, and then allow group to read but not write [14:14:26] You mean the directory of the web server? [14:14:33] the uploads directory [14:16:06] But then will Mediawiki be using the "someone else"? That needs to write though, right? [14:17:09] the web server (and mediawiki) will be using www-data user and group. that needs to be able to write to the uploads directory but ideally is not able to write anywhere else [14:18:35] I (think) that's the case right now - that it can't write anywhere other than uploads [14:18:39] unless I am wrong [14:19:04] Wait -- I am losing the track. [14:19:20] Is it okay for the root mw dir to be owned by www-data user? [14:19:50] If so, could local-settings be then set to 600? [14:20:59] And then, who should have the rights to write to the images folder and does that need 777? No, right? [14:22:56] "Is it okay for the root mw dir to be owned by www-data user?" that technically works, but best would be if it's owned by someone else, the group set to www-data, and group having read access but not write [14:23:31] Ah, okay -- I thought that was for media. [14:23:41] *uploads dir [14:23:49] for uploads, it should be owned by www-data, with 755, and php/other script execution disabled [14:24:19] But then chmod 755 does not work with the same lock error [14:25:13] Leaderboard: sorry, not sure if I follow, which directory? who owns it? what fails? [14:27:59] acagastya: for me it helps to follow this small guide, see if its also helpful to you https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Security#File_permissions [14:28:26] majavah: The upload directory, configured as chmod 755 /., upload fails with error saying that it can't write to lock [14:28:35] absorto: that's the guide being used [14:28:41] but I could be making an error there [14:29:04] Leaderboard: which user and which group own the uploads directory? [14:30:16] majavah: this is what ls -l returns: drwxr-xr-x 3 www-data www-data 4096 May 21 14:12 3 [14:30:33] it should be able to write there [14:30:47] anything inside the directory with different perms? [14:30:47] That's true, but I had to do chmod 777 for that. [14:30:57] and what's the exact error message? [14:31:22] When I used chmod 755, "Could not open lock file for "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/4/4c/whereverfile.png". [14:31:23] Make sure your upload directory is configured correctly and your web server has [14:31:24] permission to write to that directory. [14:31:26] See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgUploadDirectory for [14:31:27] more information." [14:31:29] Again, chmod 777 works just fine [14:34:17] hmh [14:35:33] But that was before I chmod777 to upload the first file - not sure if it's OK to go back to 755 [14:36:06] you're using apache2, right? is that with mod_php or php-fpm? [14:36:34] Is it impossible to see the categories a page belongs to in tje MinervaNeue skin? [14:36:36] Apache2 right. Not sure which of the two is being used (how do I check?) [14:37:42] `dpkg -l | grep php` lists all installed packages with php in their name, see if you notice it from it, if not paste it somewhere and link here [14:38:55] I'm getting "libapache2-mod-php7.3" [14:39:14] sounds like mod-php then, there goes my theory [14:44:10] Does this help? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Uv9byz8r66j55or5 [14:44:36] already saw that :/ [14:45:09] So what should be the optimal chmod for the upload directory? [14:46:09] in theory 755 with the web server owning it, but not sure what to do here [14:47:25] When I switched back to 755 I get "Could not create directory ‘mwstore://local-backend/local-public/b/b5’." [14:47:30] when trying to upload a new test file [14:56:10] So chmod 775 and 771 does not work, but chmod 773 does [15:14:29] Got it to work finally - the ownership had to be changed [15:15:12] B-) [15:21:54] Any idea why on WMCS, our UNIX accounts are not listed in `/etc/passwd` or `/etc/shadow`? [15:22:15] acagastya: they are loaded from LDAP [15:23:21] I don't know about LDAP. But it is preventing me from changing default shell. [15:23:30] Any idea how to do that? [15:24:06] unfortunately no, others in #wikimedia-cloud likely know (or will tell you that's not possible) [15:25:49] Maybe I will have to just run zsh each time then. [15:26:36] IIRC LDAP (usually) does have an attribute to set that. but whether it's respected in WMCS etc [15:27:38] sssd likely does, but I'm not sure how to change that [15:28:34] GeorgiosMavropal: To display categories on MinervaNeue set $wgMinervaShowCategoriesButton['base'] = true; -- see https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-skins-MinervaNeue/blob/master/skin.json#L93 [15:28:40] Might be worth a "feature request" into phab if there's not one already, and it's not possible currently [15:35:06] Mailer returned: Failed to connect to mx-out01.wmflabs.org:587 [SMTP: Failed to connect socket: Connection timed out (code: -1, response: )] [15:35:10] How do I fixe that [15:35:34] I'm following the instructions at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Email_in_Cloud_VPS [15:35:42] and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSMTP [15:40:56] Vulpix then how do you do it if you want them to show here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid [15:41:07] I mean in wikis where you don't own [15:44:01] Leaderboard: looks like that page was outdated with the server names [15:44:36] majavah: I fixed it; not sure why Passwordsender had a picture of a sunflower [15:44:52] what is $wgPasswordSender set to [15:45:35] but that would ideally use service names instead of hardcoding server names, but I don't think we have those [15:45:38] majavah: it had the picture of a flower - now I changed it to what it should be [15:45:45] sunflower [15:56:44] GeorgiosMavropal: You should ask to the server owners. Ii this case, WMF :) [16:10:30] ohai Vulpix [16:13:03] o/ [16:18:26] So I actually sent you an email legoktm, but maybe it could be discussed here. Why does this room wish to move to libera chat instead of Element/matrix? [16:18:41] Element/matrix is better in so many ways [16:18:57] sorry, I read your email just hadn't gotten the chance to reply yet [16:19:08] I agree with you, it is pretty superior [16:19:20] GeorgiosMavropal: see the RfC [16:19:27] if you read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Freenode_(IRC) it's mentioned in a few places [16:19:56] I do think the current situation necessitated moving immediately, and I hope this will kick-start discussions about longer-term plans [16:20:51] "For many of us, IRC is a primary means of communication, there's no reason to fix what isn't broken. " [16:20:52] Lol okay, then should we keep using fax machines and morse code then? [16:20:59] they work, why fix what is not broken [16:21:35] we were on IRC, an emergency happened. You don't use an emergency as a time to shake up your entire communication strategy. You make minimal changes required to correct the emergency [16:21:43] that meant staying on IRC but moving networks [16:22:05] once the emergency is resolved, you can look at longer-term plans [16:22:10] Also, legoktm [16:22:12] (aka exactly what legoktm said) [16:22:17] you write "A migration to Matrix/Element cannot be done in that timeframe" [16:22:27] it takes 10 seconds to create a matrix room [16:22:49] Wikimedia has dozens of IRC channels, a handful of bots to help manage them, and a lot of governance around operations [16:22:55] that cannot be migrated in 10 seconds, let alone 1 day [16:22:57] actually two major channels with MW members (MW Shareholders group) is already on Matrix [16:23:02] there's more to it than "create a channel" [16:23:07] yes, but it's much more than that. we have an entire bot infrastructure around IRC, moving people from IRC clients to Matrix, etc. is going to take a while [16:23:23] I'm in the MWStake Matrix :-) [16:24:35] Well, I'm sure you guys have thoughts this through then, but it's sad that as moonmoon said, this was not used as an opportunity to migrate to a better solution [16:24:59] Also, is Freenode shutting down completely or just changing hands? I don't get the urgency [16:25:02] you don't use an emergency to uplift the entire infrastructure [16:25:10] I don't understand what you don't understand about that [16:26:41] to give a sense of time scale, I would expect an official IRC -> Matrix migration for the whole of Wikimedia to take months, not days [16:27:03] I think you underestimate the sheer amount of stuff that goes into such a migration [16:27:21] now that this happened, I believe those discussions may be kicking off, so we'll see what happens in the future [16:27:58] freenode is changing hands to a malicious third party that uses legal threats to gain access to their servers which were maintained for years by volunteers which some of us have known and trusted for years [16:28:17] we simply can't keep our sensitive (pii, security issues, etc, etc) discussions there [16:46:02] GeorgiosMavropal: changing hands [16:52:37] Channels used basically for bots, like wikimedia-dev and feeds, can very well still use IRC. Other support channels like this one or more frequently used for human chat could benefit from looking at alternate communication systems with more capabilities [17:45:05] Hey all, I have asked this in #wikidata as well. How do change the data type of a property in WikiBase? [18:22:06] hi, I'm running a wikibase instance using the official docker images, which are built on the mediawiki docker images. I'm currently trying to ingest a bunch of data and the current batch has gotten extremely slow -- it's taking 5-10 seconds to create a single claim via the mediawiki api. I'm trying to diagnose what's happening [18:22:31] any suggestions for how to improve the mediawiki docker setup performance or otherwise determine what's happening? [18:22:56] cpu usage seems to be an issue. apache2 is showing high cpu usage despite only one api request being sent at a time, which is confusing me [18:23:31] oh, maybe it's using mod_php and php is not a separate process?? [19:13:40] /!\ THIS NETWORK HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [19:13:43] CONNECT TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT FOR ALL YOUR CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NEEDS [19:18:35] ffs [19:18:53] legoktm: I already kickbanned them [19:19:00] thanks [19:19:39] legoktm: there's a reason why we followed the network staff here :P [19:19:45] yeah... [19:20:06] until the bridge bot is gone though I plan on staying on the other side to help moderate it however [19:20:29] (other chanops are free to make their own decisions) [19:21:32] appreciated. I guess I should do the same [19:23:38] I've basically left everything except where I'm opped, -libera, and a few ones where we are still migrating (-en-help, -stewards basically) [19:38:19] /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [19:38:22] /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ [19:38:25] /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [19:39:24] bd808: does bridgebot have any anti-abuse measures? can we set a regex for messages to ignore? [19:41:03] i was about to ask, is wm-bb's source somewhere [19:41:17] oh god i'm in stereo [19:41:34] its https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge afaik [19:41:36] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tool:Bridgebot points to https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge [19:41:43] legoktm: hmmmm... maybe? it can ignore nicks, but that's not going to help this kind of spam [19:42:06] it might be possible to filter content with the scripting langauge... maybe [19:42:29] * wm-bb is in a meeting for a while longer [19:45:29] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/blob/714a2ad7303f0d7b51b8b7f6c5f86f02a99c3524/matterbridge.toml.sample#L126 there's a config option to deny certain words, at least [19:46:03] does the tool have co-maintainers that can help when the primary maintainer is in a meeting? [19:52:23] https://admin.toolforge.org/?tool=bridgebot lists Chico [19:53:56] I'm happy to add more people! :) [20:00:37] /))))))))) [20:00:40] //) __ __\ [20:00:43] C==/_o|^|o_\ /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ [20:00:46] | _\ ) /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [20:00:49] \ .--- / /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:00:52] _/`-. __.'_ /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:00:54] /` \`'-,._./|\ [20:01:14] /))))))))) [20:01:15] //) __ __\ [20:01:16] C==/_o|^|o_\ /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ [20:01:17] | _\ ) /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [20:01:18] \ .--- / /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:01:22] _/`-. __.'_ /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:01:24] /` \`'-,._./|\ [20:01:26] / \ /`\_/\/ \ [20:01:48] /))))))))) [20:01:49] //) __ __\ [20:01:50] C==/_o|^|o_\ /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ [20:01:51] | _\ ) /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [20:01:55] \ .--- / /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:01:56] legoktm: need help with dealing with this? [20:02:06] or just +r [20:02:17] /))))))))) [20:02:18] //) __ __\ [20:02:19] C==/_o|^|o_\ /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ [20:02:20] | _\ ) /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [20:02:24] \ .--- / /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:02:27] _/`-. __.'_ /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [20:02:28] /` \`'-,._./|\ [20:02:30] / \ /`\_/\/ \ [20:03:38] legoktm: should I kill the bridge until we can figure out how to block the noise? :/ [20:04:11] bd808: At least for this channel, yeah. :-( [20:04:33] I don't remember where I read that, but I think he's out for lunch [20:05:15] I was >.< [20:05:15] I set +r on freenode temporarily, but that mostly defeats the point [20:38:53] WOah there. [21:12:50] Reminder that we've moved to Libera Chat, please see https://w.wiki/3MdN https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Migrating_to_Libera_Chat [21:32:45] /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [21:32:46] /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [21:32:47] /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [21:32:48] THIS OFFICIALLY ENDORSED MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY LIBERA.CHAT STAFF [21:32:51] /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [21:32:52] /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ [21:32:53] /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [21:32:54] THIS OFFICIALLY ENDORSED MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY LIBERA.CHAT STAFF [21:33:47] legoktm: ^ [21:33:56] sigh [21:34:02] /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ [21:34:20] way to skool the bot [21:41:54] That sucks. [21:41:55] Near impossible to eradicate them too. [21:41:59]