[00:29:52] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10awight) [00:30:22] halfak: fyi, ^ embryonic RFC for the next round of TechCom [08:44:27] o/ [08:51:30] oops, I made a mistake in wikilabels frontend... :D [08:51:39] Was able to find it in staging [09:18:38] https://github.com/wiki-ai/wikilabels/pull/240 [09:18:56] wiki-ai/wikilabels#382 (fix_labeling - 76f97d3 : Amir Sarabadani): The build passed. https://travis-ci.org/wiki-ai/wikilabels/builds/407975341 [12:55:50] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10Wikilabels, 10JavaScript, 10User-Ladsgroup: WikiLabels locks when "Prevent this website from pop-out again" is checked. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131667 (10Ladsgroup) 05Open>03Resolved a:03Ladsgroup Given that it's replaced with oojs ui, this is not valid anymore... [13:10:24] The new UI is there \o/ [13:11:44] o/ [13:17:18] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10ORES: Enable wp10 and draftquality models for testwiki - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198997 (10Ladsgroup) I'm not sure about this approach, It's good for production but the task description asks about having wp10 testwiki model in vagrant which we don't have access to enwiki m... [13:27:39] Something happened to ORES a few hours ago. [13:27:47] Amir1, akosiaris: did you see this? [13:27:47] https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/ores?refresh=1m&orgId=1 [13:28:03] 1052 to 1112 UTC [13:28:06] * Amir1 checks [13:28:40] halfak: no, I haven't but I know elukey send you an email about some weird queries in codfw [13:29:10] timing fits [13:29:28] I have no idea about this. [13:29:29] https://logstash.wikimedia.org/goto/58461347c38952237e54c310e42fa8d4#/?_g=h@44136fa [13:29:41] What is meant by "weird queries"? [13:29:52] timing of their report, not the incident itself. I am unsure of what they notcied [13:29:54] noticed* [13:30:14] Oh! I see that someone is sending my email address in a user-agent string. They are probably copy-pasting my code. [13:30:17] Damn it. [13:30:23] that^! [13:30:36] I know who to blame. Let me send them an email. [13:30:41] :) [13:30:45] thanks! [13:31:43] akosiaris, it doesn't look like this is related to that though. [13:31:50] Our overall scoring basically stops for an hour. [13:32:59] Like, precaching seems to shut down on eqiad for an hour [13:33:11] https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/ores?refresh=1m&panelId=4&fullscreen&orgId=1 [13:33:21] icinga did not notice a thing btw [13:33:40] It doesn't looks like we were returning 500s to changeprop at that time. [13:33:59] * halfak gets coffee [13:34:00] brb [13:40:09] halfak: akosiaris I think I know what's going on [13:40:15] let me try some stuff [13:48:46] overload errors are going down [13:57:21] I restarted celery nodes and errors went down but not overload errors. Number of scores that is being processed is strangely super big. How a passive datacenter can get more hits than the active one? [13:57:48] I think they are both active [13:57:56] The datacenter you hit depends on routing. [13:58:46] akosiaris, emails sent. I expect this to take some hours to resolve. It doesn't look like pre-caching is struggling, so I am unsure if we should move with urgency. [13:59:19] yes, both are active [13:59:23] After doing a bit of math, it is clear that these crazy people are sending almost 200 requests per second. [13:59:47] and the datacenter you hit depends entirely on where you are on the globe [14:16:29] heh, overload errors when to 0 the moment I blocked that IP [14:16:48] halfak: Amir1 ^ [14:17:28] we generally don't block people for long but this one was causing some issues from the looks of it. We should try to educate them first [14:21:33] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10Halfak) [14:22:52] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10Halfak) I sent out an email to his collaborators at UW asking them about the event. @akosiaris blocked the originating IP address at ~1410 UTC and the overload... [14:23:49] halfak: thanks! [14:25:22] akosiaris, solid. This clearly has solved the issue :D [14:27:09] Arg. I caught a bug in transit yesterday. I'll be trying to take it easy today. [14:27:13] I plan to be at the staff meeting. [15:03:07] It's time to raise priority (or pick up) T160692 [15:03:08] T160692: Use poolcounter to limit number of connections to ores uwsgi - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T160692 [15:03:36] Why did we drop this one in the past? I can't remember. [15:31:58] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES, 10Operations: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10faidon) [16:08:39] o/ harej meeting! [16:09:03] I thought it was at 10 AM PDT [16:09:38] 12 PM CDT 10 AM PDT [16:23:44] I just remembered there’s a staff meeting. It’s not on my calendar. Can I be invited to it for subsequent weeks? (I’m currently on a bus.) [16:41:12] halfak: I 've reverted the ORES abuser IP blocking per https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338. If the person resumes the activity with no changes we can reblock them easily [16:58:22] OK great. Thank you akosiaris [16:58:27] * halfak goes to check on grafana [16:59:01] Got it! Was a UW researcher. I'll work with her to continue :) [17:00:09] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES, 10Operations: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10Halfak) Was a UW researcher. I'll work with her to continue :) [17:43:54] halfak: can you invite me to the weekly staff meeting? [17:51:29] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES, 10Operations: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10elukey) @Halfak as another follow up step, I'd also add more monitoring to catch these situations. We noticed the issue because Jaime was watchin... [18:00:03] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10ORES, 10Operations: Address mass overload errors in ORES (July 2018, UW origin) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200338 (10awight) Just a minor note: in the past, overload events like this have resulted in the collapse of ORES worker nodes, but in this case the worker... [18:03:11] harej: added [18:07:27] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Mooeypoo) I just want to make a point about the specific term "Judgment" -- it has a big potential of setting the t... [18:09:11] awwww. Mummy juice is plain old sewage water [18:11:11] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10awight) @Mooeypoo Very interesting, thanks for flagging this! I think the term may have originally come about due... [18:21:57] hi awight! [18:22:01] o/ [18:22:08] made some changes to the etherpad [18:22:15] have time for a look see? [18:22:23] halfak: Mooeypoo’s point above is interesting. [18:22:30] saurabhbatra: Cool! taking a look... [18:23:05] Feel free to replace the sections I made in the first draft [18:26:00] yup, i'll just keep the final thing after we reach an agreement [18:27:12] btw. I deployed wikilabels today, the confirm and alert thingies are deployed [18:27:40] beside several responsive fixes IIRC [18:28:33] (03CR) 10Ladsgroup: [C: 032] "It's already merged :)" [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443649 (owner: 10Awight) [18:35:28] Laid down after lunch and lost track of time. Just got back. Ugh sinuses. [18:36:17] awight, mooeypoo's point in this channel? [18:36:18] * halfak digs in the logs. [18:36:35] halfak: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297#4451214 [18:37:01] Oh! [18:37:02] I see. [18:37:55] Heh. I figured someone might point that out. Judgement is good in lots of contexts and bad in some. [18:38:11] E.g. using Judgment is considered good. Judging others is considered bad. [18:38:19] urgh, yeah [18:38:54] I don't like "Scoring" or "Review" since they are too specific and not quite to the point. [18:39:19] Don’t like: annotations, evaluations [18:41:20] But in any case, I’m sympathetic to the idea that even the name of the namespace has the potential to make structural impacts on discussion styles. [18:41:53] For some people, it might sound like “Truth” [18:42:25] Judgment sounds very human and subjective to me [18:42:32] I’m not sure everyone shares our view of judgments as an entirely subjective individual thing, is the catch [18:42:35] I like the term "Subjective" [18:42:45] hehehe that would be a hilarious namespace [18:42:48] Any way we can get a synonym of that in there? [18:43:01] “Opinion” [18:43:11] eh. [18:43:15] “Assessment” has some precedent [18:43:40] Good point. [18:43:48] ASS:Diff/123456 [18:43:51] :| [18:43:56] harrr [18:44:51] We could just use "JADE" again. [18:44:53] “Rating” [18:45:01] Or maybe "Label" [18:45:17] Rating suggests a scale. Doesn't work for topic. [18:45:26] I was happy about using the self-explanatory title... [18:45:26] But "label" could. [18:45:52] “Label” is jargon AFAICT, though [18:45:52] It means something very different in everyday life [18:46:02] (n) a small piece of paper, fabric, plastic, or similar material attached to an object and giving information about it. [18:46:16] Seems good to me [18:46:25] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Label [18:46:43] "Labeled data" has a pretty literal definition [18:46:43] As someone who just learned the term, it’s feels unintuitive [18:46:43] *it [18:47:13] Never heard the term "label" before? [18:47:21] argh? [18:47:25] Or "labeled data"? [18:47:27] Nope, never :p [18:47:39] no seriously though, I have not seen it used in the ML sense before [18:47:56] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeled_data [18:49:11] One problem with “label” is that it’s specific to the ML use case, but we’re building something more general-purpose than that. [18:49:12] Hmm. It's not really though. [18:49:16] I think the definition for label is unsurprising to a native english speaker. [18:49:19] Translations may be a problem. [18:49:24] Not sure. [18:49:49] I’ll note that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Label is quite long but never mentions the specific meaning in ML [18:50:08] IMO that reflects the broader usage pretty well [18:50:22] Oh sure. ML is a pretty rare use-case of labels compared to the physical use of them in consumer products [18:50:44] Right. I agree. [18:51:04] “Assessment” has intrinsic meaning which is a pretty good fit, if it weren’t for the unfortunate potential for abbrev. [18:51:26] I'm not sure that is the case. Sounds like a test to me. [18:51:34] Assessing quality sounds right. [18:51:35] ok fair point [18:51:36] done for the day, will work more tomorrow [18:51:39] But assessing topic does not. [18:51:40] o/ [18:51:44] o/ [18:51:45] o/ Amir1 [18:53:01] How about we try our short list on users? [18:53:45] Judgment / Assessment / Label is the set as I see it [18:55:44] Which users? We should try multiple languages if we are doing that [18:55:44] +1 [18:55:44] + Tag [18:55:44] And Metadata [18:55:45] I don’t like those two [18:55:45] I don't like Assessment :P [18:55:45] Judgment is the only one that sounds like it is coming from a human :| [18:55:45] hehe well I’m fine with knocking it out as a candidates [18:55:46] Yeah I still like “judgment”, but now I feel like we should be asking editors if it makes sense and if they’re more prone to get in a fight over a judgment. [18:57:50] Hmm. I wish judgment wasn't such a complicated word. [18:58:03] yes, a lot of historical baggage that one has [18:58:08] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Harej) We did recently just rename the namespace from `Jade` to `Judgment` since `Judgment` is better semantics (na... [18:58:28] "verdict" mwahaha [18:58:29] Hargh I was just about to say, I really hope that task doesn’t get derailed by the naming shit [19:00:10] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10awight) Before this gets out of hand, let's please discuss the name in a subtask, it's important that the deeper, s... [19:00:40] T200365 [19:00:41] T200365: Bikeshed: Name of JADE namespace - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 [19:00:44] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Halfak) {T200365} [19:00:50] ty [19:01:43] I can fill in the description, if you’re not currently preparing an edit conflict? [19:02:07] working on it. [19:02:12] cool [19:02:16] Wanted to get in before more discussion :) [19:02:30] for real. cos this is a goddamn bikeshed behind a bikeshed [19:05:36] Maybe we can name the *things* that are judged in JADE [19:05:39] E.g. "entity" [19:05:52] awight, ^ what do you think? [19:06:19] As the namespace? [19:06:22] Seems wrong [19:06:38] like using “article” to name the “talk” namespace [19:07:49] Entity talk: [19:07:52] Entity has a meaning in Wikibase and Wikidata contexts [19:08:26] Ahh fair point. That's a pain. It's a reason why we initially avoided calling these things "Entities" but it turns out that other wiki infrastructure is calling them entities so we went with the flow. [19:08:48] Artifact [19:08:50] Thing: [19:08:56] Thing_talk: [19:08:57] lol [19:13:26] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Name of JADE namespace - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10awight) [19:14:20] Insight? [19:15:14] got nothing. If you want to know, I’m currently thinking that leaving the name unchanged for now will make it easier to get through the tech hurdles. [19:16:00] +1 good idea. I'm getting bored of playing with paint palettes anyway [19:16:24] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Name of JADE namespace - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10Krinkle) Apologies if I missed something, I'm still catching up with a lot of notifications, but it seems this might depend on T196547. If the outcome is to not use pages, or to use pages or revisio... [19:18:25] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Name of JADE namespace - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10awight) @Krinkle That's a good point—we should reword this task to make it clear that we're talking about the name for a concept, however it will manifest. [19:18:28] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10awight) [19:18:41] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10Krinkle) Thanks, sounds good! [19:20:07] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10awight) [20:33:33] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Krinkle) >>! In T196547#4446016, @awight wrote: > Here are the notes from our meeting, plus some more discussion af... [20:36:55] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Milimetric) Just discussed this in TechCom, saw the minutes of the meeting with @mark and @jcrespo. Would you like... [20:41:50] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10awight) @Milimetric Great, I'd love to have an IRC meeting any time that's convenient, and happy to also discuss ra... [22:17:56] 🐉 [22:18:11] OK I'm going AFK for the day. Have a good evening folks! [22:18:15] o/ [22:18:26] exit the dragon? [22:46:04] (03PS2) 10Awight: Document that judgment.notes supports wikitext. [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/445637 [22:55:35] (03PS17) 10Awight: JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) [22:56:34] (03CR) 10Awight: [C: 04-1] "PS17 [WIP] Squash of pending patches." [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [22:58:40] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:13:09] (03PS18) 10Awight: [WIP] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) [23:14:20] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:15:37] (03Abandoned) 10Awight: Implement getjudgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443511 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:15:45] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:15:47] (03Abandoned) 10Awight: Simplify test with global user [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443512 (owner: 10Awight) [23:16:10] (03Abandoned) 10Awight: Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378 (owner: 10Awight) [23:16:13] (03Abandoned) 10Awight: Improve test coverage [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443513 (owner: 10Awight) [23:16:16] (03Abandoned) 10Awight: Accept liberal cases; cleanup [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443579 (owner: 10Awight) [23:21:52] (03PS19) 10Awight: JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) [23:21:54] (03PS1) 10Awight: [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 [23:30:52] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 (owner: 10Awight) [23:31:19] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:36:13] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:37:55] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 (owner: 10Awight) [23:40:11] (03Restored) 10Awight: Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378 (owner: 10Awight) [23:40:18] (03PS8) 10Awight: Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378 [23:40:20] (03PS2) 10Awight: [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 [23:40:22] (03PS20) 10Awight: JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) [23:40:24] (03PS1) 10Awight: Test helper for judgment storage [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447929 [23:47:19] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 (owner: 10Awight) [23:47:23] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:48:42] (03PS9) 10Awight: Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378 [23:48:44] (03PS2) 10Awight: Test helper for judgment storage [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447929 [23:48:46] (03PS3) 10Awight: [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 [23:48:48] (03PS21) 10Awight: JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) [23:48:56] grr [23:50:15] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 (owner: 10Awight) [23:50:33] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:52:43] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Split responsibilities more finely [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/447927 (owner: 10Awight) [23:53:22] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378 (owner: 10Awight) [23:55:55] (03CR) 10jerkins-bot: [V: 04-1] JADE API to store judgments [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/442885 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198207) (owner: 10Awight) [23:59:14] (03PS10) 10Awight: Translatable entity type [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/443378