[01:19:34] away for a few hrs [05:31:40] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10Natalia) Evaluation (Eval) ? [06:05:05] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10daniel) > Delete the pages and drop the namespace. Note that storage isn't reclaimed, but this should be... [07:20:41] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10jcrespo) > dropping namespaces is not officially supported by MediaWiki at all Also deleting data such a... [13:27:39] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10ORES, 10Services (designing): Merge ORES precaching with ORESFetchScoreJob - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201868 (10Ottomata) HM ok. So if we can't do it MW JobQueue, then it's either from ORES /precache (or some endpoint!) or in change-prop. I think from our previous discu... [13:55:14] (03PS1) 10Ladsgroup: Update submodules to use the new git lfs version [services/ores/deploy] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/454283 [14:49:33] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10Esanders) [15:36:56] 10Scoring-platform-team, 10JADE: Bikeshed: Explore alternative names for "judgment" in JADE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200365 (10He7d3r) Analysis? [21:01:18] Trying to write a pitch for this presentation about JADE [21:01:33] As it turns out, JADE is pretty esoteric and there's no snappy elevator pitch for it. [21:01:41] So it's my job to come up with one. [22:05:23] harej: Sorry I missed this. Share a draft whenever you want! [22:05:44] I sympathize, there have been a bunch of iterations on the elevator pitch and none is as satisfying as it should be. [22:06:26] The “aha!” moment for me was actually something that isn’t expressed in our docs and should be: attending conferences on related topics, and realizing that nobody seems to be focusing on this particular issue. [22:07:21] I think our work here could be meaningful for the future of AI, and might contribute some important social and human mechanisms. [22:27:34] harej: Which JADE presentation are you referring to, btw? [22:27:51] At WikiConference North America. Speaking of, are you interested in attending that conference? [22:27:55] Columbus, Ohio in October. [22:39:47] I thought about it today, thanks to CentralNotice messaging. [22:40:25] I love the editor-centric confs and missed Wikimania this year, so learning that you’re talking about JADE is enough to tip the scale. [22:41:49] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: Localisation updates from https://translatewiki.net. [extensions/JADE] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/454399 (owner: 10L10n-bot) [22:47:28] :D [22:54:53] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10awight) >>! In T200297#4517617, @daniel wrote: >> Delete the pages and drop the namespace. Note that stor... [22:55:18] Tomorrow’s discussion is already warming up 8D [23:01:59] awight: that person said that deleting namespaces wasn't supported, but it *is* possible. [23:02:01] Possible, but really messy [23:02:06] harej: Here’s some weird stuff I did, in case it’s useful to you: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1DJdp98jVg7BRKhfmy-Qfv-eyjhSIhc0p4KXbYhK1QSc/edit#slide=id.g3590a4447f_0_91 [23:02:20] harej: Care to weigh in, then? [23:02:22] That *is* useful, thank you [23:02:35] Want to team up on the talk? [23:03:37] Although I do want to leave some air between “How is JADE important to society and wikis specifically”, and “What is JADE and how can I use it” [23:04:12] Also we're going to only have 15-30 minutes :D [23:04:15] Teaming up would be a good idea [23:04:40] ^ just an opportunistic suggestion so I don’t have to write an entire thing in 24 hours [23:04:44] Hold on, I'm working on the submission (which isn't per se a lot of paperwork – you just need to come up with the abstract for the talk) [23:04:56] aha okay even better [23:05:19] btw, my proposal was rejected for Wikimania, I’ll link that in case there are lessons in what I did wrong. [23:06:03] GRR it’s in some weird external system, on second thought. [23:09:30] okay so I'm not going crazy! I thought there was a JADE presentation but I couldn't find it on the Wikimania website [23:10:02] I think the main challenge with communicating JADE is that it's two things: [23:10:25] 1) a quirky arbitrary annotation system [23:10:41] 2) the system ORES uses for auditing [23:11:45] #2 is more interesting but is less good at explaining what it is. #1 has the opposite problem [23:11:58] Although we’re doing this because of (2), it feels very secondary to the real impact to editors. [23:12:26] I think (1) is very interesting actually, since it has the potential to tie together so many ad-hoc workflows [23:12:29] That's the impression I got too, when I first saw JADE. I understood (2) to be our motivation but seeing what it could be capable of, I figured this is actually pretty big. [23:13:25] Yeah and editors shouldn’t care that we pipe the data back into ORES, from their perspective it’s similar to how ORES is trained on reverts and stuff. [23:16:31] It’s not necessary for the submission abstract, but I gave myself a background task to do a literature review of “collaborative auditing” and other topical research that overlaps with JADE, and I’ll pass that on as I learn anything about what’s out there. It seems that other people have hit on this and demonstrated that it works, but they’re all in walled gardens, we would be one of the first massive, public implementations. [23:26:20] 10Scoring-platform-team (Current), 10DBA, 10JADE, 10Operations, 10TechCom-RFC: Introduce a new namespace for collaborative judgments about wiki entities - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200297 (10Harej) >>! In T200297#4517617, @daniel wrote: >> Delete the pages and drop the namespace. Note that stora... [23:37:58] https://wikiconference.org/wiki/Submissions:2018/JADE:_A_new_platform_for_tagging_edits_and_contradicting_AI [23:48:45] harej: Looks great!