[03:25:29] <grrrit-wm>	 (PS1) Milimetric: Implementing Identify OAuth feature [analytics/wikimetrics] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102618
[03:44:41] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Milimetric: [C: 2 V: 2] Implementing Identify OAuth feature [analytics/wikimetrics] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102618 (owner: Milimetric)
[16:52:35] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Erik Zachte: [C: 2 V: 2] use new wikivoyage logo on stats.wikimedia.org [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/88978 (owner: Dzahn)
[16:56:19] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Erik Zachte: [C: 1 V: 1] Use WORKSPACE variable to determine $__CODE_BASE in fallback [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102299 (owner: QChris)
[16:59:13] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Erik Zachte: [C: 1 V: 1] Make squid tests time-independent [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102292 (owner: QChris)
[17:01:17] <qchris>	 ottomata: Daily Scrum :-)
[17:01:52] <ottomata>	 ja hangout being weird
[18:04:01] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Dzahn: [C: 2 V: 1] use new wikivoyage logo on stats.wikimedia.org [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/88978 (owner: Dzahn)
[18:06:25] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Dzahn: [C: 1] "whatever it takes to unblock the other little harmless changes:) thx" [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102299 (owner: QChris)
[18:06:56] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Dzahn: "added hashar to make him happy for the holidays:)" [analytics/wikistats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102299 (owner: QChris)
[19:07:46] <ottomata>	 looking better, eh qchris_away?
[19:07:46] <ottomata>	 http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/latest/graph_all_periods.php?title=&vl=&x=&n=&hreg%5B%5D=cp1046.eqiad.wmnet%7Ccp1047.eqiad.wmnet%7Ccp1059.eqiad.wmnet%7Ccp1060.eqiad.wmnet%7Ccp3011.esams.wikimedia.org%7Ccp3012.esams.wikimedia.org%7Ccp4011.ulsfo.wmnet%7Ccp4012.ulsfo.wmnet%7Ccp4019.ulsfo.wmnet%7Ccp4020.ulsfo.wmnet&mreg%5B%5D=kafka.rdkafka.topics.webrequest_mobile.partitions..%2B.txmsgs.per_second&gtype=stack&glegend=show&aggregate=1
[19:20:27] <halfak>	 Hey folks.  Do we have a standard license for analytics code?
[19:20:33] <halfak>	 I usually use an MIT License.
[19:21:11] <Ironholds>	 I usually use MIT.
[19:21:33] <Ironholds>	 mostly because, well, the GPL annoys me. It's not a particularly nuanced stance.
[19:22:16] <average>	 halfak: why do you want a standard license ?
[19:22:30] <halfak>	 "Standard license"?
[19:22:46] <halfak>	 I don't believe I ever said anything about not wanting any license.
[19:22:57] <halfak>	 Oh woops.  I misread
[19:23:02] <average>	 lol
[19:23:05] <average>	 anyway
[19:23:13] <Ironholds>	 ah, well, off the top of my head
[19:23:16] <halfak>	 Well I was wondering if we had one is all.
[19:23:19] <Ironholds>	 because not all licenses are mutually compatible?
[19:23:24] <halfak>	 yeah.
[19:23:30] <halfak>	 And some people may feel really strongly.
[19:23:31] <average>	 halfak: why do you need one ? choose a license you like and use it
[19:23:34] <Ironholds>	 and if we have analytics code that is split between MIT and GPL, and one half needs the other to work...
[19:24:36] <average>	 right. this is a fundamental problem
[19:24:45] <halfak>	 It's cool if the GPL code needs the MIT code, but the other way... well.  IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you might run into trouble.
[19:24:59] <Ironholds>	 IATAL, and I'm pretty sure you would ;p
[19:25:17] <average>	 you can just change the license, problem solved
[19:25:37] <Ironholds>	 fwiw, I feel like we should standardise on the MIT. But.
[19:25:45] <ottomata>	 going to cafe, brb
[19:26:01] <average>	 Ironholds: let's standardize everything
[19:26:34] <halfak>	 :\
[19:26:34] <qchris>	 As long as we're standardizing on using GPL, I am fine :-)
[19:26:53] * halfak  is sorry he asked. 

[19:32:08] <Ironholds>	 qchris, why GPL?
[19:32:29] <qchris>	 Ironholds: I like copyleft.
[19:32:42] <average>	 I like WTFPL
[19:32:57] <qchris>	 average: :-D
[19:33:10] <qchris>	 average: Such license do not promote freedom :-(
[19:33:16] <protonk>	 Ironholds halfak that's a basically correct interpretation. MIT -> GPL, GPL -/-> MIT
[19:35:06] <drdee>	 afaik, we always used GPL, with possibly Limn the exception, i think that has an Apache license. WMF policy is GPL again AFAIK
[19:36:41] <halfak>	 Where is this policy stated drdee?
[19:38:31] <halfak>	 On a related topic, I'm looking to get a python module installed on stat1 that apt doesn't know about.  What's the Right(TM) process?  RT ticket?
[19:39:05] <halfak>	 Hmm... Wait.  I take that back.  I guess I can run mercurial from my virtualenv.
[19:39:09] <halfak>	 I'll work with that.
[19:39:35] <drdee>	 I am not sure if it's written down but 99% of the code that WMF writes is GPL
[19:40:44] <halfak>	 Gotcha.  Where are you getting this stat?  Personal experience?
[19:41:11] <average>	 halfak: do you have stats on the licensing that contradict that ? can you show them please ?
[19:41:54] <halfak>	 average: I'm not trying to start a fight here.  I'm just trying to get a sense for how drdee knows something.
[19:42:06] <halfak>	 I suggest you turn it down a notch.
[19:42:21] <average>	 halfak: and I'm trying to get a sense of how *you* know something
[19:42:36] * Ironholds  blinks

[19:42:37] <average>	 Here's one stat http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/72359
[19:42:50] <Ironholds>	 average: a basic principle of science is that the person making the assertion is expected to defend it.
[19:42:53] <Ironholds>	 please calm down.
[19:43:01] <drdee>	 personal experience of having looked at many many gerrit WMF repo's :) and pretty sure that Erik M has said something along those lines as well
[19:43:16] <halfak>	 Makes sense.
[19:43:21] <Ironholds>	 a lot of our stuff is GPL (and historically I think all of it has been)
[19:43:26] <drdee>	 it would probably be good to have a it written down on office wiki
[19:43:27] <Ironholds>	 but at least recently there's been some shifting
[19:43:36] <Ironholds>	 I know VE/Parsoid are MIT because of their goals, for example
[19:43:41] <halfak>	 See, I figured there would be something like this since Wikipedia content used to be GPL and remains GPL-like.
[19:44:13] <average>	 halfak: I pointed you above to one stat(just for mediawiki extensions). If you have a better stat, please link to it
[19:44:16] <Ironholds>	 I think ultimately it comes down to whether the purpose of our analytics code is just "do interesting stuff for us" or "do interesting stuff for the general software-and-numbers ecology"
[19:44:43] <halfak>	 average: I appreciate your like.  I'm not starting a fight.  I don't have stats.  I wanted to know where other people's stats come from.
[19:45:12] <average>	 halfak: then come with some stats if you want to have a meaningful discussion on thi subject
[19:45:26] <average>	 since you brought them up, not me
[19:45:53] <halfak>	 Ok average.
[19:45:55] <halfak>	 You win
[19:45:59] <halfak>	 I'm a big dummy :)
[19:47:45] <halfak>	 Ironholds: Re. purpose of the code.  I think you're right.  I generally do MIT because I don't suspect that my analysis code is reusable in the same was as MediaWiki core.
[19:48:11] <halfak>	 But I might consider GPL for libraries.
[19:48:46] <Ironholds>	 halfak: actually my argument is the other way around
[19:48:47] <qchris>	 ottomata: ganglia looks good now \o/
[19:49:01] <halfak>	 Ironholds: interesting.  please elaborate
[19:50:17] <gwicke>	 Ironholds: Parsoid is GPL
[19:50:25] <Ironholds>	 gwicke, aha. and VE?
[19:50:27] <gwicke>	 MIT
[19:50:30] <Ironholds>	 kk
[19:50:43] <ottomata>	 woo
[19:50:43] <gwicke>	 they relicensed at some point
[19:50:48] <Ironholds>	 halfak: I use MIT because I want maximum reusability; it doesn't have the frustrating reuse conditions in commercial conditions.
[19:50:58] <Ironholds>	 Now, I strongly doubt anything I ever write will be commercially reusable.
[19:51:07] <Ironholds>	 unless there's money to be made in understanding why users get blocked ;p
[19:51:32] <Ironholds>	 but reducing the sheer amount of paperwork and header that people have to deal with to use a tiny snippet of my code that /might/ be nice? that's a win, as far as I'm concerned.
[19:51:36] <protonk>	 Ironholds: MIT is nice for personal projects because basically anyone can use it without asking you
[19:51:50] <gwicke>	 we should have picked AGPL so that wikia had a stronger incentive to publish their patches in a timely manner
[19:51:56] <gwicke>	 ;)
[19:51:59] <Ironholds>	 haha
[19:52:17] <Ironholds>	 we could write a new one
[19:52:35] <protonk>	 and TBH unless you think you've got a project which is poised to change the world, GPL restrictions are probably net-negative unless they're simply disregarded (which probably happens all the time).
[19:52:38] <Ironholds>	 "if patches are not published in 30 days, tim turns up at your door with gerrit access, a big red highlighter and a mallet"
[19:52:47] <Ironholds>	 protonk: exactly ;p
[19:52:54] <protonk>	 Like I'm not even sure which R packages you can license as MIT.
[19:53:12] <Ironholds>	 hwick does all his stuff as MIT
[19:53:21] <Ironholds>	 and that's sort of the most reused OF R packages.
[19:53:33] <Ironholds>	 doesn't seem to have crippled his status or usefulness much. Got him a job ;p
[19:53:50] <protonk>	 yeah, but there's some weirdo situations where using GPL'd R packages in a certain way requires you to license your package as GPL.
[19:54:16] <Ironholds>	 da, which is where the whole 'GPL as a virus' idea came from.
[19:54:37] <Ironholds>	 not R specifically, but the problem of 'reuse means same licensing or gtfo'
[19:55:03] <gwicke>	 IMO in today's web service world GPL is actually fairly liberal
[19:55:15] <gwicke>	 the only license that really has teeth is AGPL
[19:55:23] <qchris>	 Full ACK.
[19:55:26] <Ironholds>	 anyway; this is fascinating but I should work on this survey :)
[19:55:47] <halfak>	 Indeed.  Thanks for the input guys.
[19:55:51] <halfak>	 :)
[21:27:46] <ottomata>	 this internet is terrible
[21:27:47] <ottomata>	 back in a bit
[21:38:47] <ori_>	 milimetric: we have a green light from greg-g for a 4pm PST lightning deploy: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deployments&diff=92719&oldid=92659
[21:39:33] <ori_>	 and I have a patch to add the field to EL's varnishncsa format specifier here: <https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102817>
[21:42:03] <ori_>	 milimetric: have you and nuria had a chance to work on a patch to discard the UA while we integrate everything?
[21:42:29] <ori_>	 I have to run; see you guys at 4:30
[21:42:32] <ori_>	 er, 2:30, rather.
[22:41:35] <grrrit-wm>	 (PS1) Ottomata: s/logger/logging [analytics/kraken] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102831
[22:41:43] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Ottomata: [C: 2 V: 2] s/logger/logging [analytics/kraken] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102831 (owner: Ottomata)