[16:37:08] Gopa: o/ [16:37:20] d3r1ck: Hello [16:37:20] Here is fine :) [16:37:37] Okay ! [16:38:05] andre__: Gopa has updated the task descripton here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T189330, this is good to go I guess? [16:38:12] Except there is something missing? [16:40:20] Also for this https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T181946 is more info needed for GCI ? If so what might be that ? [16:42:30] * d3r1ck looks [16:43:05] I think a bit more is needed [16:43:27] So what is expected of the student? What is he/she submitting, an image? If so, what is the preferred file format etc [16:43:39] So I think if these are all added, then the task is ready to go :) [16:43:56] Gopa: ^^ [16:44:03] d3r1ck: Okay I will check it ! [16:44:10] * d3r1ck nods [16:44:16] * Gopa checking [16:51:21] We're getting close :) [16:52:27] Gopa: It's still unclear *how much* work I have to provide. [16:53:23] The task only says "can complete the maximum of two as mentioned above." [16:53:24] andre__: to which task ? [16:53:28] Two what? [16:53:30] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T189330 [16:53:47] * Gopa checking again [16:53:58] As a student who has never worked on Wikimedia code before, I need clear instructions what I am supposed to do. [16:55:18] You first tell me to "Find the code repositories" and then "To Install the required code repo". But which repo is "required" from that list?? [16:55:44] So As there are already previous patches got merged So I think the students can easily go to that and understand the things clearly. [16:56:01] Sure. Still I have no idea how much work you expect from me. [16:56:45] Gopa: I follow your steps and look at https://codesearch.wmflabs.org/search/?q=ApiBase%3A%3AgetExamples&i=nope&files=&repos= now [16:57:06] Gopa: Next step tells me to " Install the required code repo". But how do I find out which repo is "required" from the list in that link? [16:57:45] In the third step, you don't tell me that I need to remove the API functions themselves, but only to "also check for tests", so the instructions are not complete I'd say. :) [16:58:15] andre__: So I'll work with Gopa on making a list of the extensions to work with [16:58:17] "Mention in the RELEASE-NOTES-1.32" could probably be "Also edit the file RELEASE-NOTES-1.32". Again, this is about being absolutely clear what work is expected [16:58:22] So the student can select from there [16:58:33] "select" is a good word, yes. Or "choose". [16:58:51] :) [16:58:59] andre__: Sure I will update more [16:59:07] Gopa: We need to come up with a list of extensions still using the deprecated Api functions [16:59:08] d3r1ck: with all your inputs [16:59:09] Gopa, don't take my comments above in a bad way, please. I'm super happy that you mentor, and of course I could edit the task myself, but I also want you to understand better the mindset of a complete newcomer :) [16:59:32] heh [17:00:01] d3r1ck, it doesn't even have to be a defined list - linking to that search results list is fine. However, as a student, I must know how much work you expect me to perform. And currently I don't know. [17:00:03] Okay Thanks :-) [17:00:44] andre__: We'll fix that on the task :) [17:01:02] thanks so much! [17:01:53] andre__: You're a genius, just trying to fix the task, realised that some are no longer there [17:01:56] (because "fix two" - two occurrences of any of those functions listed in the task? two files which include any functions listed in that task? two repositories? [17:01:59] ApiFormatBase::getDescription has been removed completely [17:02:14] things like these, you know, to avoid misunderstandings on both sides how much work a student has to do [17:02:44] d3r1ck: Nah.... I just try to survive GCI, like every year, and Gopa and you help me surviving it :D :D [17:02:54] :D [17:03:20] :-) [17:03:36] Gopa: This is a very long list: https://codesearch.wmflabs.org/search/?q=ApiBase%3A%3AgetExamples&i=nope&files=&repos= [17:03:54] I had to stop and look at this keenly, now I get all what andre__ is saying :) [17:04:13] Okay I am also checking [17:04:37] Gopa: can you send me link to the task on GCI? [17:04:44] It needs to be unpublished and fixed [17:04:46] sure [17:05:01] andre__: Hope one can unpublish? :) [17:05:07] admins can :) [17:05:09] https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/tasks/6123111511490560/ [17:05:33] the hard part as a mentor is really to imagine being a complete newcomer again. [17:05:50] andre__: Tue :) [17:05:57] Gopa: I guess they were 2 of them? [17:06:25] two ? mentors ? [17:06:28] Gopa: I got them [17:06:32] No, I was talking of the task [17:06:42] yes I am sending other too [17:06:45] Marking them as NMW [17:06:52] NMW = Needs More Work [17:06:59] Gopa: Don't worry, I got them [17:07:29] okay [17:07:29] thanks for all your help! (I'm a bit busy these days, team offsite and conference, meh) [17:08:22] Always happy to Learn, Code and help :-) [17:08:35] andre__: Busy is good :) [17:08:48] Gopa: Time to polish up the task, I can get back to you on it in a bit [17:08:58] Can you kick of with the polishing process? [17:09:07] Sure :-) [17:10:25] GCI question: I'm wondering...is it possible for a mentor to "claim a student"? I mean, when there's big generic task with let's say 100 open instances and 10 mentors, how would each mentor know which students they should take care about? [17:13:45] Urbanecm: so I think a mentor can't claim a student :) [17:14:01] If you're a mentor in that task, you have the full right to review [17:14:04] And approve [17:14:16] Now this is the reasoning behind that, time-zones [17:14:26] If you claim a student and you're not a round to review, what happens? [17:14:41] Urbanecm: Don't know if I'm making sense but maybe andre__ can throw a bit more lights :) [17:15:04] Urbanecm, I don't think that's possible [17:15:23] but: [17:15:42] In theory you could not have 1 task with 100 instances and 10 mentors, but 5 tasks with 20 instances each, and 2 mentors each. If wanted. :P [17:15:55] so technically you can split but I think we've never done that [17:16:57] d3r1ck, well, you can check your GCI inbox in morning, afternoon and evening, which should give a student feedback in max 8 hours [17:17:20] Yeah, in an ideal world :) [17:17:35] Urbanecm: But I think in practical, not all the time, do you remember the famous weekends? :D [17:18:03] Or sometimes you maybe be stuck on something else I think [17:18:21] *practice [17:18:59] d3r1ck, I volunteer for Wikimedia during workdays _and_ weekends, so I don't see much problem :). But yes, I understand. [17:19:03] str.remove(" be") [17:19:13] Okay, that's cool :) [17:19:42] andre__, thank you [17:20:45] So in tasks with more than 1 mentor, it's about who comes first, I guess? [17:21:53] It's really about who is available I think [17:22:11] If both available, then the first that reviews :) [17:22:32] thank you [17:22:37] But in a practical world like 300 students for example, you'll have like many many tasks to review [17:22:49] And it's rare for such a condition to happen [17:23:01] Urbanecm: You'll have so many to review and it will be difficult for that condition to be true [17:23:06] But it's good to keep in mind [17:23:33] Which condition is rare? [17:24:14] 2 mentors reviewing a task at the same time :) [17:24:22] Well as far as I can tell, it has never happened to me [17:25:00] Ok [17:35:22] Urbanecm, yes, who comes first. Also see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in/Lessons_learned#2017 [17:35:37] where Lego brought up: "Sometimes mentors (with good intentions of course) would prematurely approve tasks that weren't merged / might have had problems. At least for some tasks, I was thinking about having a "primary mentor" which would be the expected person to sign off on tasks, with other mentors still being able to "needs more work". I'm not sure how to balance that with not being a bottleneck for students." [17:36:10] Because of this, I added to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in/Mentors the line "You are very welcome to add yourself as a co-mentor to existing tasks but you must understand the code base sufficiently enough to review the patch. If in doubt, please let the "primary" mentor(s) decide instead." [17:36:23] thx