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[11:24:14] <Pyfisch>	 hello I am a bit confused because I get sometimes "Segmentation fault (core dumped)"
[11:24:51] <Pyfisch>	 than my programm stopps, but I don't know if I caused this error or something else
[11:24:59] <petan>	 Pyfisch memory?
[11:25:04] <petan>	 Pyfisch what is it written in
[11:25:20] <petan>	 you probably are out of it
[11:25:20] <Pyfisch>	 my code is written in python
[11:26:18] <Pyfisch>	 ok, what to do against it?
[11:26:26] <petan>	 try use more memory
[11:26:32] <petan>	 !toolsdocs
[11:26:33] <wm-bot>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Tool_Labs/Help
[11:29:30] <Pyfisch>	 petan: I just run my bot with "python <filename>.py" on bots-gs
[11:29:37] <Pyfisch>	 Am I doing wrong?
[11:31:24] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1144 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1079 minutes) Slboat (waiting 414 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 274 minutes) I-pon (waiting 115 minutes) 
[11:31:52] <petan>	 Pyfisch on bots?
[11:32:00] <petan>	 ok then it probably isn't memory
[11:32:08] <petan>	 there are no memory limits on bots
[11:32:24] <Pyfisch>	 yes pyfisch on bots-gs
[11:32:42] <legoktm>	 er
[11:32:49] <legoktm>	 were you using SGE?
[11:35:46] <Pyfisch>	 legoktm: what?
[11:36:14] <legoktm>	 were you just running the script normally? or did you use qsub scriptname.py ?
[11:37:05] <Pyfisch>	 legoktm: normally
[11:37:28] <petan>	 Pyfisch which server
[11:37:39] <legoktm>	 petan: bots-gs
[11:37:44] <petan>	 ??
[11:37:52] <petan>	 Pyfisch did you just run it on bots-gs??
[11:38:01] <legoktm>	 yeah......
[11:38:02] <petan>	 that is not a box that is supposed to host bots, it's a submission bot
[11:38:05] <petan>	 * host
[11:38:20] <Pyfisch>	 petan: yes?
[11:38:30] <petan>	 !botsdocs
[11:38:30] <wm-bot>	 https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Bots/Documentation
[11:38:40] <petan>	 Pyfisch try to run it normally on bots-bnr4
[11:38:48] <petan>	 if it doesn't work let me know
[11:39:11] <petan>	 or just use grid, but that could bring some more errors
[11:39:20] <Pyfisch>	 ok
[11:39:24] <petan>	 running it normaly is most safe way
[11:39:34] <Pyfisch>	 I ll move to bots-bnr4
[11:39:36] <petan>	 afk
[11:39:38] <petan>	 ok
[11:39:52] <petan>	 you shouldn't move it to bots-bnr4 - you should just test if it works there
[11:39:58] <petan>	 and if it does, you should use grid
[11:40:16] <Pyfisch>	 *confused*
[11:40:23] <petan>	 did you read that link I sent you?
[11:40:29] <petan>	 bots-gs is a submission host
[11:40:36] <petan>	 you can use it to run your bot on grid
[11:40:46] <petan>	 that will automatically run it on one of these huge boxes
[11:40:55] <petan>	 I don't know how your bot works
[11:44:54] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1157 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1092 minutes) Slboat (waiting 428 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 287 minutes) I-pon (waiting 128 minutes) 
[11:58:19] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1171 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1106 minutes) Slboat (waiting 441 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 301 minutes) I-pon (waiting 142 minutes) 
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[12:25:23] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1198 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1133 minutes) Slboat (waiting 468 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 328 minutes) I-pon (waiting 169 minutes) 
[12:38:50] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1211 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1146 minutes) Slboat (waiting 482 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 341 minutes) I-pon (waiting 182 minutes) 
[12:52:16] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1225 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1159 minutes) Slboat (waiting 495 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 355 minutes) I-pon (waiting 195 minutes) 
[13:05:42] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 5 users waiting for shell, displaying last 5: Chippy (waiting 1238 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1173 minutes) Slboat (waiting 508 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 368 minutes) I-pon (waiting 209 minutes) 
[13:10:44] <Pyfisch>	 In https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Move_your_bot_to_Labs#Set_up_your_bot it says that the bot files should live at /data/project/bot_name or /mnt/share/bot_name, but I can't create a folder theire
[13:15:48] <Pyfisch>	 can you please help me?
[13:16:58] <legoktm>	 that folder should already exist....
[13:16:59] <legoktm>	 petan: ^
[13:17:25] <petan>	 no it shouldn't
[13:17:32] <petan>	 you can create it in /data/project/userdata
[13:17:42] <petan>	 the page is lying
[13:17:44] <legoktm>	 i thought its autocreated?
[13:17:48] <petan>	 nope
[13:17:55] <petan>	 it's autocreated in tools project per tool
[13:18:04] <petan>	 it's a process of creation of tool account
[13:18:12] <petan>	 there are no tool accounts yet on bots project
[13:19:07] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 6 users waiting for shell, displaying last 6: Chippy (waiting 1252 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1186 minutes) Slboat (waiting 522 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 382 minutes) I-pon (waiting 222 minutes) Reza (waiting 12 minutes) 
[13:32:38] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 7 users waiting for shell, displaying last 6: Chippy (waiting 1265 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1200 minutes) Slboat (waiting 535 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 395 minutes) I-pon (waiting 236 minutes) Reza (waiting 26 minutes) 
[13:46:07] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 7 users waiting for shell, displaying last 6: Chippy (waiting 1279 minutes) Xiloynaha (waiting 1213 minutes) Slboat (waiting 549 minutes) Jwehl1988 (waiting 409 minutes) I-pon (waiting 249 minutes) Reza (waiting 39 minutes) 
[14:27:02] <Cyberpower678>	 I just ate 5 blueberry muffins.
[14:27:10] * Cyberpower678  gives legoktm a muffin.

[14:27:25] <legoktm>	 yumyum :)
[14:27:58] <legoktm>	 my dining hall doesnt open for another 2 hours :(
[14:28:19] <Cyberpower678>	 I'm trying to write an essay on the morning Dhikr.  I don't know how to start it.
[14:28:24] <Cyberpower678>	 :(
[14:28:43] <Cyberpower678>	 legoktm, that's what Panera is for. ;)
[14:29:48] <Cyberpower678>	 legoktm, I just fixed a bug in Badimage.php. :p
[14:30:11] <Cyberpower678>	 Remember when you asked me why I wasn't using nocreate?
[14:31:01] <legoktm>	 Yeah and you said it was because of commons images
[14:31:06] <Cyberpower678>	 Yep.
[14:31:24] <Cyberpower678>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Hentai_-_yuuree-redraw.jpg&action=history
[14:31:32] <Cyberpower678>	 for example
[14:32:30] <Cyberpower678>	 Peachy can detect whether the image exists or not thanks to my latest alpha 2 release.
[14:32:53] <Cyberpower678>	 That's what I use instead of checking whether an image is redlinked.
[14:32:58] <legoktm>	 nice :)
[14:35:02] <Cyberpower678>	 There's so much left to do though. :/
[14:35:19] <Cyberpower678>	 I'm only guessing that I'm 6% done.
[15:07:34] <wm-bot>	 Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/Help was modified, changed by MPelletier (WMF) link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=680079 edit summary: [+561] /* Your tool account */  Basic instructions until something more friendly is made available.
[17:33:04] <Toto_Azero>	 hi there ! Am i at the suitable place to request access rights for the bots project ? :)
[17:33:20] <petan>	 hi
[17:33:23] <petan>	 yes
[17:33:50] <petan>	 you want tools and bots I guess?
[17:34:04] <Toto_Azero>	 well, yes please
[17:34:59] <Pyfisch>	 And me again :-/ an hour ago, this worked fine, now I can't access the files of my bot. What am I doing wrong?
[17:35:00] <Pyfisch>	 pyfisch@bots-gs:/data$ cd project
[17:35:02] <Pyfisch>	 -bash: cd: project: Transport endpoint is not connected
[17:35:15] <petan>	 Pyfisch wow
[17:35:25] <petan>	 let me take a look, probably gluster failed again
[17:35:36] <duh>	 Cyberpower678: I'm at panera now :)
[17:36:07] <petan>	 Toto_Azero bots is supposed to be staging area which is compatible with tools project, you can basically do whatever you want there, tools is considered production, and is far more restrictive
[17:36:11] <petan>	 !toolsdocs
[17:36:12] <wm-bot>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Tool_Labs/Help
[17:36:14] <petan>	 and
[17:36:16] <petan>	 !botsdocs
[17:36:16] <wm-bot>	 https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Bots/Documentation
[17:36:32] <petan>	 Toto_Azero what is your labs name?
[17:36:45] <Toto_Azero>	 petan: totoazero
[17:37:19] <petan>	 ok done
[17:37:24] <petan>	 you now have access
[17:37:31] <Toto_Azero>	 thanks :)
[17:41:05] <labs-logs-bottie>	 !log bots root: rebooting bots-gs to fix gluster outage
[17:41:09] <labs-morebots>	 Logged the message, Master
[17:41:47] <petan>	 Pyfisch gluster is very unstable, we will switch to nfs asap
[17:41:59] <petan>	 Coren what we need to do to convert bots project to nfs?
[17:44:08] <petan>	 Pyfisch -gs is back
[17:45:12] <Pyfisch>	 petan: :-) thanks
[17:45:18] <petan>	 yw
[17:52:03] <Cyberpower678>	 duh, get the Cuban Chicken Sandwich.  :)
[17:52:11] <duh>	 I already ate :P
[18:06:37] <Cyberpower678>	 duh, what did you get.
[18:06:58] <duh>	 tomato and mozzarella panini 
[18:07:21] <Cyberpower678>	 meh
[18:07:53] <Cyberpower678>	 not a big of tomato and mozzarella being combined
[18:09:32] <duh>	 I love it :D
[18:10:06] <Cyberpower678>	 duh, thanks a lot.
[18:10:10] <Cyberpower678>	 Now I'm hungry
[18:10:14] <duh>	 :PPP
[18:14:21] <Cyberpower678>	 AFK for a moment.
[18:14:52] <Cyberpower678>	 krejr jnskfdsjhlkerkgf;lkyu]
[18:14:53] <Cyberpower678>	 [il
[18:14:54] <Cyberpower678>	 t'lf
[18:14:58] <Cyberpower678>	 dfgmfgkjnffkjdd'
[18:15:00] <Cyberpower678>	 dd
[18:15:06] <Cyberpower678>	 dkskskjndshbjwejkio
[18:15:17] <Cyberpower678>	 kljlghlglj,hghdfmkh
[18:15:20] <duh>	 Hi Cyberpower678's cat
[18:15:27] <Cyberpower678>	 mklfglselfg,
[18:15:29] <Cyberpower678>	 ;t
[18:15:35] <Cyberpower678>	 ;lll;,rg
[18:15:40] <Cyberpower678>	 l;dfkl;k;l
[18:15:46] <Cyberpower678>	 'erewmsklmqwg`hgv23ihuergioml43oi54tr'
[18:15:57] <Cyberpower678>	 gll;lf,dfknjwlknj23eri34df
[18:16:04] <Cyberpower678>	 lelkasdsljknsdsc sdmlbejr
[18:16:08] <duh>	 This is amusing
[18:16:12] <Cyberpower678>	 ernjkwemlk m,fdb
[18:16:17] <Cyberpower678>	 sjkjiowemmebhjqwkjjkds
[18:16:25] <Cyberpower678>	 vwekjweewew
[18:16:54] <Cyberpower678>	 eflkw'
[18:16:54] <Cyberpower678>	 few;l
[18:16:59] <Cyberpower678>	 Ahhh
[18:17:14] <Cyberpower678>	 I go to get a sandwich and this happens.
[18:17:50] <Cyberpower678>	 duh, and my parrot some how DCCd you. :p
[18:17:58] <duh>	 Oh parrot lol
[18:18:04] <duh>	 My client doesn't support DCC
[18:19:26] <Cyberpower678>	 AFK again, with Parrot locked up this time.
[18:40:36] <Cyberpower678>	 And back
[18:41:03] <Pyfisch>	 How can I access my databases on labs? "mysql" don't work
[18:41:20] <Cyberpower678>	 What's your tool name?
[18:41:30] <duh>	 Pyfisch: on bots?
[18:41:39] <Pyfisch>	 yes
[18:41:59] <duh>	 i think petan has to create it for you
[18:42:17] <duh>	 addshreo: still can't spell your name? :P
[18:42:45] * Cyberpower678  is thinking what he should do with his cyberbot database.

[18:42:53] <Pyfisch>	 I have already created a database myself a database and I can access it over python, but command line don't work
[18:43:11] <duh>	 oh
[18:43:15] <duh>	 well then you can do
[18:43:38] <Cyberpower678>	 petan?
[18:43:38] <duh>	 mysql -h hostname databasename --user=username --password
[18:43:59] <duh>	 and itll prompt you for the password
[18:44:29] <Cyberpower678>	 Coren?
[18:47:22] <Cyberpower678>	 Coren, petan: One of you two has to be here at least. :p
[18:48:50] <Cyberpower678>	 I guess not.
[20:05:36] <petan>	 hdfd
[20:05:37] <petan>	 here
[20:09:09] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There is 1 user waiting for shell: Juk (waiting 0 minutes) 
[20:22:35] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There is 1 user waiting for shell: Juk (waiting 13 minutes) 
[20:35:56] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There is 1 user waiting for shell: Juk (waiting 26 minutes) 
[20:49:22] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There is 1 user waiting for shell: Juk (waiting 40 minutes) 
[21:02:44] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There is 1 user waiting for shell: Juk (waiting 53 minutes) 
[21:16:15] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 67 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 2 minutes) 
[21:29:47] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 80 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 15 minutes) 
[21:43:19] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 94 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 29 minutes) 
[21:56:43] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 107 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 42 minutes) 
[22:10:05] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 121 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 56 minutes) 
[22:11:48] <Cyberpower678>	 Coren?
[22:12:52] <Cyberpower678>	 petan?
[22:13:01] <petan>	 hey
[22:13:20] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, shouldn't I be the project admin of Cyberbot and Peachy?
[22:13:24] <Cyberpower678>	 I own them.
[22:13:44] <petan>	 well... is there such a thing like project admin?
[22:14:45] <petan>	 Cyberpower678 I mean, there is only 1 user level
[22:14:54] <petan>	 that is being a member, nothing more or less :/
[22:15:03] <petan>	 interface doesn't offer anything else
[22:15:12] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, according to Special:NovaProject, there is.
[22:15:18] <petan>	 really?
[22:15:36] <petan>	 ok maybe I need to learn something new
[22:15:40] <petan>	 where you see it?
[22:16:03] <Cyberpower678>	 Special:NovaProject
[22:16:10] <petan>	 that's where I am
[22:16:16] <petan>	 but where exactly
[22:16:26] <Cyberpower678>	 Underneath Roles
[22:17:18] <petan>	 You do not have permission to manage OpenStack projects and roles, for the following reason:
[22:17:19] <petan>	 The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Bureaucrats.
[22:17:31] <petan>	 whatever it is I am not allowed to change it
[22:17:42] <Cyberpower678>	 :p
[22:17:52] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, I guess you just learned something.
[22:18:13] <petan>	 but that project local-afcbot was created by coren
[22:18:21] <petan>	 and I am not a project admin there either
[22:18:39] <petan>	 that means... if one person of project was supposed to be a project admin, coren probably would make me one
[22:18:48] <petan>	 so I guess it doesn't work like that
[22:19:01] <petan>	 there is no such a service group where anyone is project admin
[22:19:07] <petan>	 all of these roles are empty
[22:19:10] <petan>	 everywhere
[22:19:43] <petan>	 I don't even know what rights it gives you
[22:19:45] <Cyberpower678>	 Since when did I get added to bots?
[22:19:55] <petan>	 since I merged the tools acl
[22:20:17] <petan>	 as bots is supposed to be staging area, people from tools need to have access there
[22:20:26] <petan>	 to test stuff etc
[22:21:25] * Cyberpower678  hacks Labs for all of it's resources. >:D

[22:21:51] <petan>	 all resources are fully utilized, there is not much to hack :P
[22:22:28] * Cyberpower678  deutilizes the resources and steals them.

[22:23:27] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 134 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 69 minutes) 
[22:24:05] * Cyberpower678  leads the hack trace to petan's account.

[22:25:31] * Cyberpower678  is now uploading XANA and there's nothing Coren or Petan can do about it. :p

[22:26:06] <petan>	 we can rip power cables out of these servers :P
[22:26:25] <Cyberpower678>	 XANA will never let you do that.
[22:26:43] <Cyberpower678>	 It's writing a virtual world into your servers as we speak.
[22:36:49] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 147 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 82 minutes) 
[22:50:19] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 161 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 96 minutes) 
[22:52:52] <Cyberpower678>	 I'm hungry
[23:03:48] <wm-bot>	 Warning: There are 2 users waiting for shell, displaying last 2: Juk (waiting 174 minutes) Aayush251 (waiting 109 minutes) 
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[23:18:28] <jeremyb_>	 what a friendly discussion on the toolserver list!
[23:19:19] <jeremyb_>	 not necessarily saying it shouldn't happen. i am however saying i didn't want to read it today. :)
[23:19:38] * jeremyb_  takes care of aayush

[23:22:11] <jeremyb_>	 ok, bye :)
[23:25:30] <petan>	 jeremyb_ ?
[23:25:34] <petan>	 link it
[23:27:09] <jeremyb_>	 petan: er? you can just look at the toolserver-l archives yourself?
[23:27:29] <petan>	 I am n00b when it comes to browsing lists
[23:27:38] <legoktm>	 https://bit.ly/toolserverLast
[23:27:39] <petan>	 and I don't even know what I should look for
[23:28:03] <petan>	 legoktm what there
[23:28:05] <jeremyb_>	 lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/$listname would be a good place to start
[23:28:16] <jeremyb_>	 or lists.wikimedia.org even
[23:28:22] <petan>	 jeremyb_ I know but which thread is one you talk about??
[23:28:30] <jeremyb_>	 http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/ is 500 ISE and says to mail Coren personally about it
[23:28:30] <legoktm>	 petan: idk, thats just the last ts mail
[23:28:43] <jeremyb_>	 i wonder if he gets much mail about that :-P
[23:28:55] <petan>	 is it called "what a friendly discussion on list" ??
[23:29:18] <legoktm>	 petan: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/toolserver-l/2013-April/005978.html
[23:29:25] <petan>	 that's what I wanted :))
[23:30:03] <jeremyb_>	 bbllllllllllllll
[23:34:52] <petan>	 well, Coren has my moral support :)
[23:35:09] <petan>	 I hate when people just say "labs suck" without actually telling why
[23:35:20] <petan>	 tbh I like labs more than toolserver...
[23:36:00] <legoktm>	 tbh I like having a reliable host to run my tools on which offers support to run cross-db joins on non-replagged servers.
[23:37:13] <Cyberpower678>	 Talk about putting pressure on someone.
[23:37:35] <Cyberpower678>	 Is he having a conversation with himself?
[23:37:47] <petan>	 Cyberpower678 who?
[23:37:56] <Cyberpower678>	 DaB.
[23:38:05] <petan>	 heh
[23:38:14] <petan>	 I can understand him a bit
[23:38:15] <Cyberpower678>	 From and to DaB.
[23:38:21] <Cyberpower678>	 and mailing list
[23:38:26] <petan>	 he just don't like idea that toolserver is being overtaken by tools
[23:38:38] <petan>	 just as I didn't like it when bots were supposed to be replaced by tools
[23:38:53] <petan>	 and that is just a small project I worked on only few months
[23:39:01] <petan>	 dab was working on toolserver for years
[23:39:14] <petan>	 now his baby is going to be turned off and labs are going to do its job
[23:39:22] <petan>	 of course he is mad...
[23:40:16] <Cyberpower678>	 If they can improve the hardware, on toolserver, without funding from WMDE, that would win enough support to retain toolserver.
[23:40:37] <petan>	 how? labs don't do that either
[23:40:44] <petan>	 labs cost far more than toolserve
[23:40:46] <petan>	 r
[23:41:30] <legoktm>	 petan: The issue is that labs is currently not in the place to replace the toolserver, and yet ts users are being told to get ready to migrate without labs being ready
[23:41:33] <Cyberpower678>	 That's because labs has 3 times the amount of equipment, that are 3 times newer, and 3 times better staffed.
[23:41:52] <petan>	 legoktm some tools can be moved
[23:41:57] <petan>	 not all require db
[23:42:05] <legoktm>	 if i have 10 tools, half of which require db
[23:42:07] <petan>	 most of bots can be
[23:42:09] <legoktm>	 im not going to split them
[23:42:15] <petan>	 I already moved all of them...
[23:42:21] <petan>	 not that I had many of them :P
[23:42:22] <legoktm>	 im going to wait till its all ready, and then move them
[23:42:24] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, please don't make me 3peat
[23:42:26] <legoktm>	 and plus
[23:42:33] <petan>	 3peat?
[23:42:35] <petan>	 :P
[23:42:39] <legoktm>	 most of my bots require db access
[23:43:04] <Cyberpower678>	 Adminstats and X!s tools require db access.
[23:43:15] <petan>	 I said /some/
[23:43:17] <petan>	 not all
[23:43:52] <Cyberpower678>	 Adminstats and X!s tools have become widely used to the point of not being able to do without.
[23:44:10] <petan>	 so what
[23:44:35] <petan>	 nobody say they need to shutdown ts tommorow
[23:44:52] <petan>	 there will be db on labs and x!s tools will be working on labs
[23:44:58] <Cyberpower678>	 If toolserver gets shutoff before db replication is ready to be used, a lot of questions will be directed to me and TParis.
[23:45:59] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, the question is seamless connection to it.  One of the plusses on toolserver is it's not so damn complicated to set up.
[23:46:40] <Cyberpower678>	 Here you have to jump through hopes and do acrobatic stunts to do the same thing as on toolserver.
[23:47:06] <Cyberpower678>	 My concern is how long it will take to adapt the code to get it to work with replication.
[23:47:19] <Cyberpower678>	 on labs that is.
[23:48:16] <Cyberpower678>	 Will I have to significantly alter the database plugin to work on labs?
[23:48:46] <Cyberpower678>	 Can I see the database tables in a non-terminal environment like PHPmyAdmin?
[23:49:11] <Cyberpower678>	 That's my concern.
[23:51:26] <petan>	 Cyberpower678 I agree
[23:51:34] <petan>	 Cyberpower678 in bots, things are very simple
[23:51:50] <petan>	 the complicated things were introduced by Coren and I was againsted them since the beginning
[23:52:15] <petan>	 few months ago, setting up a bot on bots project was easier than on toolserver
[23:52:25] <petan>	 people even had a root access on some instances
[23:52:42] <petan>	 if they knew enough unix they could even install the software and libraries and didn't need to ask
[23:52:58] <petan>	 I agree with Coren that the way he does it is /proper/ but...
[23:53:05] <petan>	 it's not /simple/ or /best for users/
[23:53:38] <petan>	 most of users will hate it
[23:53:45] <petan>	 unless we make it easier at some point
[23:53:58] <petan>	 feedback is needed
[23:54:06] <petan>	 so that we know what needs to be made easier
[23:54:33] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, one suggestion, make taking ownership of files easier.
[23:54:45] <petan>	 yes, that needs to be done
[23:55:03] <Cyberpower678>	 What do you do to change ownership?
[23:55:11] <Cyberpower678>	 It's easier to that in Windows.
[23:55:18] <petan>	 well, it is
[23:55:27] <petan>	 unix has worse permission schema than windows
[23:55:44] <petan>	 because when unix was born, the Bill Gates was a baby
[23:56:08] <petan>	 windows are newer, things that did suck in unix, were done better in windows
[23:56:08] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, I mean when you need to take control of some Windows files, the ownership is locked.  I can easily unlock it in command prompt
[23:56:26] <petan>	 ok, that is something else
[23:56:35] <petan>	 in fact you aren't correct
[23:56:46] <Cyberpower678>	 ?
[23:56:46] <petan>	 the ownership is never locked on windows
[23:56:53] <petan>	 it just may appear so to you
[23:56:56] <petan>	 because of UAC
[23:57:23] <petan>	 but there is always a clean owner of a file in windows, and that can be overtaken by any person that has appropriate rights for that
[23:57:51] <petan>	 in unix it's more simple
[23:58:01] <Cyberpower678>	 petan, yea basically.
[23:58:10] <petan>	 windows has role based permission system, which is far more complicated than what is in unix
[23:58:18] <Cyberpower678>	 You have to give yourself that right first.
[23:58:20] <petan>	 nobody is "root"
[23:58:29] <petan>	 even administrator in windows is a regular user
[23:58:38] <petan>	 that has some permissions given to "administrators" role
[23:58:52] <petan>	 in unix, root account (uid 0) is hardcoded in kernel and drivers
[23:58:55] <petan>	 there are no roles
[23:59:07] <petan>	 you are root - you are supposed to be able to access everything
[23:59:12] <Cyberpower678>	 So what is the command to take over ownership?
[23:59:13] <petan>	 that is a very simple way of doing things
[23:59:45] <petan>	 you can only take ownership if filesystem support that and if you are in a group that owns the file
[23:59:50] <petan>	 the command is chown
[23:59:57] <petan>	 chown <yourname> <file>