[00:28:58] tfinc: what app is this? :) [00:30:27] greetings Thehelpfulone [00:30:33] hi! :) [00:30:53] we have two apps. one for iOS and one for Android [00:31:18] yep, I'm interested in the iOS one [00:31:26] do you have any web pages or screenshots of it? :D [00:32:34] Thehelpfulone: good news on that iOS app. we just pushed a new version of it (2.2.1) to the iTunes store. [00:32:40] it was mostly a stability fix [00:32:49] give it a go and let us know how it behaves [00:32:55] we have a lot of ideas of where it can go next [00:33:28] our android app would show you the direction that were taking for apps next [00:34:06] is it harder to code for iOS than Andriod? [00:35:48] depends on if you like objective c vs java [00:35:51] preilly: can weigh in on that [00:36:05] but we've actually decided to use phone gap for our app instead [00:36:32] http://phonegap.com/ [00:37:41] okay, tfinc - on the page history can you make it so that you can make a page a bookmark without having to re-load it? [00:38:28] that'd be an interesting new feature. are you comfortable enough with bugzilla to add that as a feature request ? [00:38:35] sure [00:38:57] and when locations services is off, instead of oops we can't find your location -- adding a message saying that you need location services to be on to find your location might be better [00:39:11] Thehelpfulone: stash them here https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia%20Mobile [00:39:13] I don't know if it's possible to check whether location services is on for the app first before showing that message [00:39:31] well .. we have full control of the message [00:39:46] otherwise to say that "oops we can't find your location" - or "Your location cannot be determined at this time" [00:40:36] the option to view pages on regular wikipedia should be disable if possible within the app [00:40:53] if you locate a page on regular wikipedia, it looks very ugly and you can't resize it because of the fixed frame [00:40:55] Thehelpfulone: that whole footer should go away [00:41:00] yes [00:41:22] one of our devs is eventually going to add a mobile api so that you can just request the parts of the page you care about [00:41:29] that way apps can just ask for page content [00:41:33] no search box, no footer, etc [00:41:35] are there push notifications for the app? [00:41:36] it'll be really nice [00:41:39] not yet [00:41:45] we have a bug open about that [00:41:51] i.e. to push the day's FA [00:41:57] that'd be awesome [00:42:00] or in the news [00:42:02] indeed [00:42:13] Thehelpfulone: are you an active wikipedian, developer, etc ? [00:42:45] tfinc: English Wikipedia admin, meta-wiki admin, mailing list moderator and channel op/super op for a fair few IRC channels - so yes :) [00:42:49] [[User:Thehelpfulone]] [00:43:13] Thehelpfulone: indeed. your super active. [00:43:18] set this channel on auto join [00:43:29] we'd love to get more non techies talking to us about mobile [00:43:34] it has been for quite a while :) [00:43:41] excellent [00:43:47] then you should jus speak up more ;) [00:43:47] haha [00:43:58] hehe [00:44:02] we regularly break past 30 people now .. i can't keep track anymore [00:44:05] which is a good problem to have [00:44:20] Thehelpfulone: what kind of contribution features do you think you would use on mobile [00:44:21] ? [00:44:31] images upload, spelling correction, content curation, etc [00:44:55] hmm, the problem is the security of logging in tfinc - especially over 3G or public wifi on an admin account [00:45:14] I imagine it will be SSL by default if we add user logging-in? [00:45:15] Thehelpfulone: do you trust SSL ? [00:45:34] heh, well it's better than nothing but I usually edit from a home connection [00:45:41] Thehelpfulone: https://en.m.wikipedia.org [00:45:47] people give me http:// and https:// links, so I've logged in in both of them! [00:45:56] i need to blog post about it as i've only tweeted about it [00:46:01] but mobile full support https [00:46:06] even for logins [00:46:18] Thehelpfulone: did you enable the mobile beta? [00:46:27] how do I do that? :) [00:46:39] bit.ly/wmoptin [00:46:45] on your phone of course [00:46:52] tfinc, the thing is - there's essentially 2 types of people that will use the wikipedia app [00:47:04] 1) people who just use it as a reference [00:47:11] and 2) editors/developers etc [00:47:26] currently the app is for the mass-market, i.e. the active readers [00:47:43] so I don't know if having 2 applications would be better (i.e. 1 for readers and 1 for editors) [00:47:53] here is what's live on the beta now http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects/beta [00:48:00] load it up with safari [00:48:20] as in use safari to access the beta [00:48:33] i've been thinking a lot about that lately. we might have to. its still up in the air [00:48:40] were going to tackle image uploads first [00:48:45] as thats a bit easier then full scale editing [00:48:51] and its what a phone is good at [00:49:06] especially a smart phone [00:49:07] plus .. once we have a phones location. wikipedia can easily tell them whats missing [00:49:18] tfinc: do you know what the reader feature in Safari is (the new one for iOS5?) [00:49:24] imagine being able to ask wikipedia about the new city that your visiting and whats images are missing [00:49:28] and then you just take them and upload [00:49:37] Thehelpfulone: yes, i've used it [00:49:46] really nice way of getting the cruft out if your just a casual reader [00:49:51] although i do hate losing iw links [00:49:57] indeed - okay, so on the mobile website, it strips the image out too [00:50:04] but what i hate more is seeing all the iw links i don't care about [00:50:17] any way that you could get it to keep the image (I don't know if you need to change the webpage somehow?) [00:50:40] in the news for example on todays main page has just been cut off [00:50:44] give me an example artilce [00:50:46] . [00:51:21] yup, i see it [00:51:40] preilly: has apple published the logic that iOS reader uses to include/exclude content ? [00:52:02] and more correctly Thehelpfulone i DONT see in the news within reader as its stripped [00:52:24] Thehelpfulone: reader is an iOS feature so we don't have any control of it. but if we could find out its rules [00:52:30] then we could better support it [00:52:38] preilly: how goes the WP:Zero push? [00:53:13] indeed, if we find the rules we can make pages match those rules [00:53:25] tfinc: I see the heading "In the news" [00:53:28] but nothing underneath it [01:04:05] tfinc: i got super sidetracked and made some mockups of a more "android-style" layout, including a quickie tablet layout mockup: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_mockups_for_Android_style [01:07:04] looks very ICS'ish [01:07:19] send it out to mobile-l@ if you haven't already [01:07:28] will do [01:07:50] brion: do you have a good chrome extension that will let me set http headers ? [01:08:03] nope [01:09:22] preilly: what firefox extension were you using? [01:09:45] tfinc: Modify Headers 0.7.1.1 [01:09:47] "Modify Headers " ? [01:09:48] yeah [01:11:21] preilly: HTTP_X_CARRIER ? or do i foo bar it ? [01:12:14] HTTP_X_CARRIER Wikimedia [01:14:56] preilly: and can i hit any page ? [01:16:03] yup. any. [01:16:06] li can see it [01:16:11] nice [01:17:12] is wikimedia the only configured one now ? [01:17:28] i tried it with verizon but didn't see anything [01:17:48] tfinc: "Verizon Wireless" [01:18:42] where is the config that trys to match the sent header ? [01:19:27] tfinc: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Zero-rated-mobile-access-carrier-options [01:20:34] nice. that worked great. what are the id's all about? [01:20:38] 1006, 1007, etc [01:20:47] tfinc: partner ids [01:20:52] tfinc: for the zero links [01:21:26] so tracking ids so that we can know which partner someone is coming from ? [01:21:33] tfinc: yes [01:21:36] nice [01:22:15] now will we be able to have one config for all of wikipedia or will it have to be set per language ? [01:23:14] right now it is set per language that we support Zero on [01:57:48] preilly: could we do it per project? [01:58:02] that seems like an awful lot of configs to create [01:58:08] and maintain [01:58:26] tfinc: maybe [01:58:39] tfinc: I'll need to talk to brion about it tomorrow [02:07:57] interesting https://www.tizen.org/about [04:12:49] preilly: can I bounce some questions off you about a possible wikimedia mobile project? [17:57:21] MaxSem: hi, looks like some folks are not here yet [17:58:02] hi [17:58:31] yep, Tomasz left this chan 30 minutes ago [17:59:48] hey everyone [18:00:02] hey, goodnight and goo morning! [18:00:10] good [18:00:32] heh, my body is confused about it's time zones [18:00:48] even more so today - had to go to visa office to get that thing, which meant switching to IST for the day [18:01:02] sorry for never saying good night, it always seems like i am not paying attention right then [18:02:22] greetings all [18:02:23] yuvipanda_: MaxSem : ready for our call? [18:02:29] yup [18:02:36] yup [18:21:23] yuvipanda: so... one of the students has asked about the phone project option: "...the stand-alone app to [18:21:24] access wiktionary content is also appealing. Would that necessarily be in [18:21:24] PHP, or could we get a little crazy (perhaps Ruby on Rails, etc)? [18:21:24] " [18:23:18] amgine: heya [18:23:24] amgine: standalone app as in? [18:23:32] Standalone phone app. [18:23:43] To display content from wiktionary. [18:24:00] (One of the possible projects you mentioned to me here) [18:24:21] amgine: i understand, but why does php/rails come into the picture there? [18:24:24] it's a phone app no? [18:25:53] Yes, it is, but I don't think any of us have ever done a phone app. They have to be Java, right? [18:26:08] ok..have we already discussed the ltr/rtl issue? [18:26:10] (has never done anything like this) [18:26:11] amgine: on android, java yes. [18:26:16] tfinc: link? [18:26:27] amgine: on iOS objective C. different languages on different platforms. [18:26:39] [18:27:11] amgine: so it's all clientside, and I am guessing they should be able to use the Mediawiki API to do it [18:28:02] Okay, as long as I can be clear on the language that should work. [18:28:51] yuvipanda_: philinje is filing the bug [18:29:18] preilly: could we clean up the spacing better on http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ ? [18:29:28] the features articled line spacing is pretty cramped [18:29:53] amgine: so android -> java, yes. [18:33:20] lol, geotaggers: 50 coordinates per page is not enough for some people:) [18:33:32] MaxSem: who's saying that ? [18:33:55] practice [18:34:05] yuvipanda_: RTL bug is 33664 [18:34:19] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN [18:36:00] philinje: okay, and the other oen? [18:36:02] *one [18:36:22] i think the history bug may not be valid - there is no clear history function currently [18:36:31] philinje: there is, you can hit the 'x' and it'll go awa [18:36:32] y [18:36:52] brion: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33664 [18:39:34] philinje: is this bug only in the android app or in mobile view too? [18:40:24] yuvipanda_: android only [18:40:53] brion: says android 2.x has really poor rtl support [18:41:00] 3 and 4 do much better [18:41:58] ah, okay [18:51:13] yuvipanda_: what feedback have we gotten about selection sifter ? [18:51:37] tfinc: zero, haven't deployed it in labs. [18:51:59] yuvipanda_: k [18:52:06] i'm moving it to feb on our roadmap [18:52:07] no rush [18:52:31] tfinc: okay [18:52:39] tfinc: what else is on the roadmap?a [18:53:21] yuvipanda_: here is the big list http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap [18:53:31] we iterate on it every wed [18:53:40] to upadate/subtract/add as needed [18:54:14] reload it in about 15-20min to see the latest updates [18:54:21] ah, okay [18:58:13] nice. we've already hit 500+M in page views for the month http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyMobile.htm [18:58:29] and were projecting 1.8M for month end [18:58:37] \o/ [18:59:39] 1.8B? [19:00:47] yes [19:00:52] you know what i meant [19:00:59] yuvipanda: have you gotten your travel to the hackathon worked out? [19:01:11] tfinc: yes, flight tickets booked, visa gotten [19:01:20] excellent [19:02:52] tfinc: any idea what i'd be doing on 17th, 18th, 19th? hanging around in the office? [19:03:30] hanging around? [19:03:36] It's all work work work [19:04:44] yuvipanda: so i'd like to have you work with both patrick and brion [19:04:44] Reedy: chained to the chairs yet? [19:05:03] yuvipanda, you can fit in a 13 hour working day no problem [19:05:04] for both the refactor and to get you divining into mobile front end [19:05:22] Reedy: yuvipanda is a machine. he challenges roan for most hours worked [19:05:23] :D [19:05:42] well, I used to do 16-18 hours at the startup… :P [19:06:05] Just watch all the SF staff come and go after their measly 8 hours or so ;) [19:06:20] yuvipanda: been there done that, got the t-shirt [19:06:34] well, I got no t shirt [19:06:41] speaking of pageviews - tfinc, what's projected load on GeoData? [19:06:50] Reedy: hey, that's not as bad as the British company I worked for [19:06:57] i got a non-working shoulder though ;) [19:07:14] i was in Japan and the guys in the UK went home before I did! [19:07:26] [WikipediaMobile] brion pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KTCFrw [19:07:26] [WikipediaMobile/master] Darker shadow on launcher icon; updated about-page logo to latest less-dark version - Brion Vibber [19:07:45] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #66: SUCCESS in 10 sec: http://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/66/ [19:07:45] brion: Darker shadow on launcher icon; updated about-page logo to latest less-dark version [19:07:45] philinje: was working so much that I had 3 meals over a 7 day period. beat that :P [19:08:07] ouch! [19:08:07] tfinc: cool [19:09:23] philinje, I've had that numerous times... Working before the SF lot even get up, still working after they went home... [19:09:50] i guess it sucks to be remote from the HQ, no matter what [19:10:04] heh [19:10:26] but in Japan, I worked with a guy from NEC who bragged about not sleeping for five days straight [19:10:43] i've not been able to do more than 30 hours though. [19:10:51] MaxSem: good question [19:10:55] millions! [19:10:55] when I hit 30 the next thing I remember was waking up 10 hours later. [19:11:05] tfinc: do we have data on how much we're using geonames? [19:11:07] so the first two customers would be our apps [19:11:17] yuvipanda: we'll have a much better idea about that in a week [19:11:22] Japan is very bad for sleeping habits [19:11:23] ah yes :) [19:11:26] we get stats now that we have a paid account [19:11:45] oooh [19:11:59] http://www.geonames.org/img/charts/ws-credits8163-NhBKEPcu6P86DGxC7SYivA.png [19:12:02] but we haven't started to distribute the app seriously [19:12:03] i expect these to climb [19:12:07] correct [19:12:23] now we'll get a bump after more people install the new iOS version of our old app [19:12:27] as i switched it to the paid service [19:12:52] eh, 400 per day? how did we manage to hit the 30K limit? [19:13:46] MaxSem: not enough people have updated yet [19:13:57] we pushed the new version later yesterday [19:14:00] late* [19:14:09] was it 'approved'? [19:14:35] yuvipanda: yes [19:14:36] yesterday [19:14:50] i 'released' the new version yesterday [19:14:54] we submitted it a week ago [19:15:00] yep it's in the store [19:15:03] gj Apple [19:15:05] reminds me i gotta update on my ipod :D [19:15:28] some people are reporting search issues. i haven't been able to dupliate [19:15:33] duplicate* [19:16:06] the majority of other comments will get fixed once we move to the phoengap codebase [19:16:18] their all feature requests that the android app has [19:16:35] gee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_of_Michigan <-- 225 x {{coord}} [19:16:58] nice [19:17:14] I should probably consider making an option for no limit [19:19:40] nearby seems a bit flaky, doesn't seem to update the search [19:19:49] brion: ping! [19:19:59] writing design doc on notifications. [19:20:06] want to flesh terminology. [19:20:06] it's showing my current location downtown, but is showing results from near my house (last place i tried it i guess) [19:20:11] jorm, excellent [19:20:28] i need terms for 1) central framework; 2) individual feature type; 3) individual event type [19:20:49] i'm thinking 'Service', 'Publisher', 'Event [19:21:01] sounds good to me [19:21:09] all can be prefixed with 'Notification' when needed [19:22:04] a lot of this is cut and paste from various documents around the place. [19:22:44] philinje: drafting release notes thoughts here http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/WikipediaMobileAndroidRelease [19:23:17] brion: what was the open source android market name ? i can't for the life of me remember it [19:24:02] f-droid [19:24:07] thanks [19:24:13] i kept thinking f-secure [19:24:16] the old shitty terminal app [19:24:27] hehe [19:24:39] there we go... i did 'done' and went back into 'nearby' and its showing me updated data [19:28:23] brion: what is "done" [19:28:59] philinje: i think he means the "done" button in a iOS select menu [19:29:48] sorry, i thought he was talking about Android [19:37:06] frak! Martian coordinate system is different from ours! [19:37:21] ha ha [19:37:39] damn, I feel like I missed a joke's setup and arrived in time for the punchline [19:38:49] same here [19:39:20] all my validation is for Earth [19:39:43] middle earth? [19:41:51] holy shit. [19:41:53] marspedia :DD [19:42:03] i keep writing this doc, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. [19:42:04] an [19:42:05] d [19:42:10] and less user focused and more nerdy. [19:42:57] strip it down and build it back up [19:43:03] we have the terminology [19:43:05] we can rebuild it [19:43:19] better, shorter, more user-focused [19:43:54] yeah. [19:44:00] well, i'm writing up the full monty. [19:44:07] and you can help me chop it apart later, please! [19:44:26] Ryan_Lane: can you setup philinje with a labs account. he'll need to testing inside the cluster [19:44:55] tfinc: or, we can make a proxy [19:45:03] that works too [19:45:08] and is easy to configure in a browser [19:45:16] do we already have a public proxy for people to use? [19:45:30] that'd be way simpler then having him ssh in [19:45:34] only to setup his own proxy [19:45:35] tfinc: not that I know of [19:45:40] Ryan_Lane: ping [19:45:55] Ryan_Lane: any reasons why we wouldn't want to setup a proxy for non devs needing to test things ? [19:47:09] philinje: here is the sharing extension i was talking about last week http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AddThis [19:47:10] jorm: please put me on the review list for that document [19:47:22] i'm just gonna post it to mw.org [19:47:23] tfinc, i have a fix for that rtl thing [19:47:40] jorm: if you haven't seen Extension:AddThis. do check it out [19:47:47] it does what i pitched last year [19:47:51] social media prefs per account [19:48:37] actually .. maybe this isn't the one [19:48:39] right now instances just have public IPs [19:48:40] omfg [19:48:43] as the writeup is different [19:49:04] it would be ideal to have a proxy, rather than give every instance that needs a public webserver a public IP, but someone needs to write a service to do this [19:49:07] see the map at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Mars#Interactive_map_of_Mars ? guess where is teh Western hemisphere? [19:49:17] it's ON THE RIGHT! [19:49:24] wrong one. this is the one i was talking about http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiShare [19:49:24] mumf... [19:49:30] haha [19:50:01] philinje: jorm -- ^ http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiShare [19:50:55] [WikipediaMobile] brion pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kcSI3w [19:50:55] [WikipediaMobile/master] Fix for bug 33664: apply dir & lang attributes to all content, including title & main page extracts - Brion Vibber [19:51:10] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #67: SUCCESS in 6.3 sec: http://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/67/ [19:51:10] brion: Fix for bug 33664: apply dir & lang attributes to all content, including title & main page extracts [19:53:22] tfinc: send people who need labs accounts to #wikimedia-labs [19:53:30] less channels for me to have to constantly check :) [20:00:29] wah [20:00:32] fast brion is fast :O [20:04:07] tfinc, almost forgot: today, hashar reverted one of my GeoData-related commits to core as "not needed". I'm gonna revert him, but letting you know beforehand [20:06:51] MaxSem: yeah. I am complaining about stored procedure/function :-b [20:07:18] MaxSem: can't you postGIS? [20:07:41] hashar: can't you python? :P [20:07:47] yeah please [20:07:47] hashar, you're here - great. three points in your commit message: [20:07:57] rewrite geodata using python and PostGIS :))) [20:08:03] 1) not needed - we need it [20:08:47] 2) ;; - discussed with Tim beforehand, he admitted that it's a stupid atavism [20:08:51] 1) was not obvious to me / I wasn't aware of anything requiring stored stuff. [20:08:58] 2) you got me at "Tim" :-)))) [20:09:21] noms! [20:09:56] 3) disabled tests - nobody said that all tests are gonna work on systems with restricted user rights or replication [20:12:10] here's this: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Echo_(Notifications) [20:12:12] and of course you need the stored procedure to be able to filter by distance around a point [20:12:13] brion^ [20:12:18] wait he's not here. [20:12:59] philinje: brion fixed the rtl bug. [20:13:04] philinje: and I can actually repro the history bug [20:13:11] so i'll go fix that [20:13:14] really? [20:13:17] philinje: yes [20:13:25] how do you clear history? [20:13:31] philinje: hit 'x' to remove a saved page. it doesn't go away. go to main page and come back, it's gone [20:13:37] philinje: there is an 'x' button? [20:13:38] wait [20:13:39] not history [20:13:41] but saved pages [20:13:54] oh, he meant saved pages [20:13:59] wait, you kept saying 'history', i kept hearing 'saved pages' and there's actually one in saved pages? [20:14:00] * yuvipanda is confused [20:14:33] the guy wrote history but there is no way to clear history [20:14:47] if you found a bug in saved pages, let's go with that [20:15:08] do you want to file a bug? [20:15:38] back in a while [20:16:21] philinje: i'll probably just fix and push [20:16:30] ok [20:23:10] okay. added a mockup to the page. [20:30:56] hmmm, certificate errors [20:41:57] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/O_Xgzw [20:41:57] [WikipediaMobile/master] Fixed bug causing saved pages to not be hidden on deletion - YuviPanda [20:42:05] mmm, first direct push [20:42:13] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #68: SUCCESS in 6.3 sec: http://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/68/ [20:42:13] yuvipanda: Fixed bug causing saved pages to not be hidden on deletion [20:44:50] added ux stuff to it. [21:01:24]