[00:15:51] Ugggh [00:15:59] Another site that hasn't learnt to HTTPS [00:36:27] Reedy: which site ? [00:36:43] readwriteweb.com [00:36:47] loading http on https [01:13:41] time for me to crash on the keyboard i think [01:27:47] tfinc: should we change the default recipients of MobileFrontend bugs to mobile-team@ rather than just you and patrick? [01:27:54] or, at least add me to the list :) [01:28:09] i like it. change it. [01:28:21] i actually have no idea how to do that. [01:28:28] do you have bugzilla admin access ? [01:28:35] not that i know of, so probably not [01:35:22] MURDER. [01:35:24] oop. [01:35:43] lolz [01:36:00] awjr: mail the team and see what they say before we spam them [01:36:28] hee [01:36:32] :p [01:36:56] heatherw: did you get a chance to meet lindsey ? [01:37:08] tfinc: also, i think im not going to mail out to wikitech-l for coordinating MobileFrontend deployments. i've culled a list of committers over the last month that i'll email directly [01:37:20] oops, looks like she's left! [01:37:35] heatherw: tomorrow then ... [01:37:37] tomorrow :) (i assume she will be here) [01:37:47] heatherw: yup, she's full time [01:37:51] cool [01:38:14] awjr: k [01:38:46] * jorm listens to the Monkees. [01:39:35] tfinc: actually… can someone who's not on the mobile-tech list even send mail to it? [01:39:58] good question [01:40:41] mail it from your personal gmail and we'll see [01:40:47] tfinc: the answer is no [01:40:52] beat you to it. [01:41:56] and fwiw, no i do not have administrative access privileges for bugzilla. i'll send mark a request to add me [01:43:50] is still want to know what the murder is for Jorm [01:45:13] awjr: let me know if he can't get to it . i should have access to do it [01:45:19] k [01:45:56] well. who do i normally want to murder? [01:48:20] the bourgeoisie [01:49:53] heretics [01:50:29] the unsuspecting [01:50:37] tfinc: is there a place where changelogs for MF are recorded for deployments? [01:50:57] awjr: nope. because previously they were just in patricks head [01:50:59] or all of the above. [01:51:14] a bar that runs out of whiskey ? [01:51:16] :D [01:51:31] :D [01:51:48] tfinc: do you know how this is handled for other projects? i was thinking of just adding a 'deployments' subpage to mw:Extension:MobileFrontend [01:52:14] no idea. this is the first time were we've waited this long to deploy a list of changes [01:52:26] ok well i'll just go ahead and do that [01:54:11] ok . time to run [11:54:56] has anyone here got access to a psp? [16:31:24] MaxSem - any ideas when your api changes will be live on Wikipedia ? [16:31:39] are they going out at the same time as the MobileFrontend extension? [16:32:01] we discussed it today, don't think we've come to a conclusion [16:32:24] i'm a bit concerned about the MobileFrontend changes effecting the mobile app [16:32:34] yes, we've got to do something about the app [16:32:43] yet the api changes are needed for a bit of development i need to do on the app :) [16:33:30] circular dependency [16:33:34] always fun :) [16:35:49] im yet to find a solution to the toggling problem that is acceptable to me [16:36:35] lemme guess, our app doesn't check for updates? o sancta simplicitas [16:37:03] i'm not sure. it might do however we can't force people to update [16:37:10] to be fair - it's only toggling - people can live without it [16:37:22] (if they don't want to upgrade) [16:37:36] i.e. no scary errors in their face? [16:38:50] shouldn't do as the html returned doesn't have any javascript in it [16:39:02] it just doesnt run the javascript that adds the toggling [16:39:24] (which https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile/pull/147/commits fixes) [17:54:52] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/xu7f8g [17:54:52] [WikipediaMobile/master] remove trailing whitespace - Jon Robson [17:54:52] [WikipediaMobile/master] Merge pull request #148 from jdlrobson/ws - Yuvi Panda [17:55:15] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #204: SUCCESS in 13 sec: https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/204/ [17:55:16] jdlrobson: remove trailing whitespace [17:58:40] wee .. metrics and analytics meeting today [17:58:49] that means lots of time on the six floor [17:59:58] tfinc: enjoy :) [18:00:09] yuvipanda tfinc are you aware of https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile/pull/147 and the related issue that with the next deployment of MobileFrontend toggle behaviour will disappear on the existing android app? [18:00:26] jdlrobson: yes, I am. Testing it now before I merge. [18:00:43] jdlrobson: when is the deployment scheduled? [18:00:50] it's still being decided [18:01:06] but when it happens we are going to have people with the old android apps - will they auto update? [18:01:11] or at least be told to update? [18:01:16] jdlrobson: yes, they will be [18:01:23] ok well that's good :) [18:01:24] google just released new stats that let us monitor them as well [18:01:29] also i've been working on moving over to the api [18:01:32] as in, monitor which versions of our app are up [18:01:39] jdlrobson: damn, me too :| [18:01:42] as part of the disableimages stuff [18:01:43] https://github.com/jdlrobson/WikipediaMobile/tree/disableimages [18:02:01] feel free to take a look at what i've been up to (test driven yey!!) [18:02:10] jdlrobson: sure! [18:02:24] problem is the disabled images stuff won't work till the new api is up [18:02:27] jdlrobson: I was thinking of setting up a Page 'class' and wrap things around that. [18:02:27] so it makes it hard to test [18:02:37] it worked in Safari browser [18:04:03] i just created a loadPageFromTitle function in app.js and renderFromApi in chrome.js - I left the existing stuff intact as I'm not too sure how the cached pages work yet [18:04:19] jdlrobson: they're a huge mess. One of the reasons I want to move to having Page objects [18:05:46] jdlrobson: idea is that once we have 'Page' objects, saving pages is a matter of making them JSOn and sticking them in a db [18:06:04] i see - so a page object could be the json returned by the api [18:06:16] yes, it'd be the JSON returned by the API [18:06:20] chrome would have a render function [18:06:23] + methods [18:06:37] and app would have a loadPage method which can either load from cache or ajax [18:07:01] (maybe an option that can say load from cache) [18:07:13] app.loadPage(Page.fetchTitle("Main page")); [18:07:42] app.loadPage(Page.fetchFromCache("Main page")); [18:07:45] and similar stuff [18:08:07] maybe even new Page('Main Page').get(callback, useCache) ? [18:08:37] jdlrobson: .fetch* objects will return a deferred [18:08:44] so loadPage can handle those [18:08:54] would be good to spec these out in test form first [18:08:57] yes [18:09:21] what are your working hours like tomorrow? as happy to collaborate with you on it [18:09:44] jdlrobson: but wouldn't it be better to start on the transformation, while making sure that you have a fully functional application at all points of time? [18:09:56] that's how I like doing refactors, rather than text -> code [18:10:40] but yeah, I guess it's a better idea to put a few 'guiding principles/general idea' on text and work on it [18:11:07] text -> tests which break -> code [18:11:15] (-> tests that pass) [18:11:23] ah, so that's another thing we should do. [18:11:25] tests for the app [18:11:40] so i've got a few in that branch for disabling images [18:11:55] * yuvipanda looks [18:15:15] * yuvipanda reads up on qunit [18:20:14] * yuvipanda waves at lsmith [18:20:15] welcome! [18:20:39] jdlrobson: ok, text -> tests -> code -> tests passing sounds great. [18:21:19] great [18:21:50] jdlrobson: also on the matter of js coding style [18:22:00] do we just do 'change style to mw style as you touch code'? [18:23:17] yeh lets just do it gradually.. make sure all new stuff gets written with correct code style (if pull requests are badly styled we fix after merging) [18:23:28] and when we get free time have sprints of cleaning up existing code [18:23:40] it would make sense to follow the mediawiki styling guide though and link from README [18:23:58] e.g. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/JavaScript [18:24:14] yeah, that's the one I was referring to [18:24:32] I personally don't like the space after paren, but for the sake of consistency and the lack of a time machine... [18:24:44] well me neither [18:24:51] we could technically deviate from that.. [18:25:09] :D [18:25:15] it is quite tempting [18:25:21] I prefer myfunction() { [18:25:30] or myfunction(arg1, arg2) { [18:25:50] +1 [18:26:05] myfunction( a, b ) makes no sense to me [18:26:08] lets do that then - ill update the README [18:26:16] we can tweak them as we feel necessary [18:26:53] jdlrobson: so mw style - the braces rule? [18:26:59] yes [18:27:09] for the time being until I see something I don't like ;-) [18:27:22] jdlrobson: :D [18:27:46] jdlrobson: we also need to set standards/guidelines about the fact that we can use a lot more js features than normal js [18:27:53] a good portion of ES5, for example :) [18:28:30] and we need to decide about css - just -webkit- prefixes, or do we have -moz around as well? [18:28:42] (for the time they get their act together and do their OS stuff) [18:28:48] okay, that's a little too far fetched. not needed [18:28:54] but still, the ES5 thing merits mention [18:29:26] we can add the -moz- stuff when we need em. same with -ms- etc ;) [18:29:32] no rush on that [18:29:40] agreed [18:29:42] though…. would be nice for testing. but we don't work in a regular firefox yet [18:29:47] cross-domain yadda [18:29:57] brion: ah, so that's something I've been meaning to setup as well. [18:30:09] it's a trivial amount of effort to setup a simple proxy to put this online somewhere [18:30:30] I did that last weekend for yuvi.in/POSM - it's a PhoneGap app that works on the web as well, using a proxy to get around the same domain restriction [18:31:56] brion: also, opinion on the 'mw js - the crazy brace spacing style' bits? [18:32:24] i prefer less spacing on most new js code, but ….. meh :D doesn't make much difference as long as we're consistent per file [18:32:48] arrrgh netbeans has shat itself and lost my mediawiki project :P [18:33:10] whew got it reopened [18:33:17] * yuvipanda gives a protective hug to his slightly archaic vim based setup [18:33:21] this is just one of those days where nothing works right [18:33:29] the handle on the freezer in the office kitchen broke [18:33:33] it's raining [18:33:47] i shoulda stayed in bed ;) [18:34:28] next up - mosquitoes :) [18:34:32] * yuvipanda goes to update yuvi.in/where [18:35:21] * MaxSem looks what yuvipanda has just updated [18:35:38] "404 Not Found" [18:35:39] mmmm [18:36:27] http://yuvi.in/where.html [18:39:06] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/J9F59Q [18:39:06] [WikipediaMobile/master] Merge pull request #147 from jdlrobson/MobileFrontend - Yuvi Panda [18:39:20] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #205: SUCCESS in 8.2 sec: https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/205/ [18:39:20] jdlrobson: use MobileFrontend application.js instead of custom toggle.js [18:41:37] brion, why OpenSearchXml isn't part of core? [18:42:08] MaxSem: it was originally developed separate because we had to keep it under wraps until an ie beta release was ready [18:42:13] then we never got round to integrating it [18:42:21] heh [18:49:08] I'm gonna feed my results into it [18:51:51] jdlrobson: also, Y U NO REBASE? :) [18:52:45] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lRdIig [18:52:45] [WikipediaMobile/master] Merge pull request #150 from jdlrobson/htmlcleanup - Yuvi Panda [18:52:59] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #206: SUCCESS in 8.1 sec: https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/206/ [18:52:59] jdlrobson: html cleanup [18:53:05] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3wb9A [18:53:05] [WikipediaMobile/master] Merge pull request #151 from jdlrobson/styledoc - Yuvi Panda [18:53:19] Project WikipediaMobile - Nightly builds build #207: SUCCESS in 8 sec: https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/WikipediaMobile%20-%20Nightly%20builds/207/ [18:53:19] jdlrobson: add some styling guidelines linked from README [18:53:51] * yuvipanda pokes tfinc to get jdlrobson push access when he is back from his meeting marathons [18:54:10] yuvipanda: on github ? [18:54:12] yes [18:54:25] oh wait [18:54:26] he does [18:54:34] jdlrobson: you tried pushing directly to the repo? [18:54:45] your welcome :D [19:02:16] yuvipanda - i like sending pull requests as it encourages other people to merge and review [19:02:27] if i just push my experience shows no one will review :) [19:02:45] * yuvipanda wonders if I should go to a pull request based culture as well [19:02:46] just a personal preference.. [19:02:58] jdlrobson: agreed, much better CR culture around pull reqs [19:03:19] the rule goes - you can't merge your own stuff [19:03:32] we used to do that in my last team and it worked quite well [19:04:00] alright, so I'm guessing if I moved back to a pull req model, you'd be able to spend time reviewing + pulling those in? [19:04:02] and since each pull request should be a feature or bug request would work quite well [19:04:07] of course [19:04:18] alright [19:04:21] i'll move to that as well [19:04:50] masochism! :) [19:05:52] one way of looking at it MaxSem :) [19:20:09] wow . i suck at keeping it short [19:20:10] haha [19:20:26] were working on too many projects for me to be brief [19:21:03] i like this pull request culture [19:21:05] idea [19:21:11] yuvipanda: it would fix you just checking into master [19:21:12] ;) [19:21:54] tfinc: always fun when more than one person is fully involved in a project :) [19:22:07] no fun working in a cave [19:22:10] on your own [19:22:28] a github project with 0 forks is a sad thing to behold [19:23:34] jdlrobson: do you get notifications of new pull requests? [19:25:29] 0 forks for the fail [19:25:38] yuvipanda: did you tweet about the iOS app beta ? [19:28:48] I did but deleted it since we were getting negaitve reports. [19:28:52] shall do again. lost a day. sigh [19:38:59] yuvipanda: thanks [19:41:37] yuvipanda: did you hear the news about foursquare switching to OSM ? [19:41:47] tfinc: was about to point you to it :D [19:41:55] this year being the 'year of OSM' is perhaps true :D [19:42:14] tfinc: but if you thought editing wikipedia was hard, try editing OSM :) [19:48:14] it really shouldn't have to be [19:48:19] they've done some nice work on android app [19:48:23] that i saw at FOSDEM [19:48:29] which looked infinitely easier [19:48:38] tfinc: OSM Android app? [19:48:41] do you remember a name? [19:48:42] yes [19:48:51] OSMAnd? [19:52:48] yuvipanda: can you mail staff about both android and iOS testing [19:52:59] okay [19:53:09] i mentioned it at the metrics and analytics meeting [19:53:15] and we have new interest in the room :) [19:53:41] tfinc: wmfall, right? [19:53:50] yes [19:54:13] this is full of fail http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects/WikipediaMobileiOSFeedback [19:54:19] yuvipanda: were going to have to prod people more [19:54:24] yes [19:54:24] same thing happened last time [19:54:32] i had to stay on top of people to test [20:00:40] [PageImages] MaxSem pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A8-ANQ [20:00:40] [PageImages/master] extension credits - Max Semenik [20:00:56] GitHub23 ? [20:01:02] (I'm on GitHub, too) [20:01:20] which project did your throw up on github ? [20:01:51] images tracking ext - creating new extensions in SVN is currently discouraged [20:02:03] ahh [20:02:05] makes sense [20:02:16] will move it into our Git once it matures a bit [20:02:25] excellent [20:02:40] yuvipanda: hows the feedback been for android 1.1beta2 ? [20:02:49] i'm eager to set a date to get that into the market [20:02:52] crickets [20:03:01] time to shake the trees [20:03:28] so far staff members have been great in testing once you get their attention [20:03:42] i did a lot of that for 1.0 [20:03:48] its one of the fun jobs of the release manager [20:03:56] you know .. i should write up the role of the release manager as i see it [20:04:03] +1 [20:04:04] so that my expectations are clear [20:04:18] also knowing who all have a device + who all participated in 1.0 so i can personally poke them would be good as well [20:04:45] yeah [20:05:35] http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/MobileAppReleaseManger [20:05:41] ok [20:05:47] i'm going to draft on this during todays meetings [20:05:53] and we'll throw it on wiki [20:06:06] okay [20:06:51] tfinc: sent [21:03:26] gnite folks. [21:46:33] i'm getting excited about all the new mockups that we have [22:12:28] tfinc: mock ups ? [22:13:06] thedj: heatherw and philinje have been working on lots of new phones for nav, contact us, search, sections, etc [22:13:15] i showed a bunch of them at todays metrics and analytics meetings [22:13:43] can't wait :D [22:14:09] actually, can /me needs sleep. did a 12 hour workday today.... [22:14:32] thedj: in progress http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_Full_Screen_Search_Results, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Glaucus [22:14:46] less so the right hand images on glaucs and more so the ones around collapsable sections [22:14:54] also http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_Feedback_Page/Contact_Form [22:15:08] consider them interim . some are farther along then others [22:15:16] like the new footer for instance [22:16:22] hmm, /me like [22:16:28] :D [22:16:31] but be careful with the margins... [22:16:35] philinje: there is one other mockup that we could easily do [22:16:53] it's a phone, don't waste too much horizontal space with too much white. [22:16:54] remember how i showed you the apture app and how it did references [22:17:02] thedj: yup [22:17:10] they just popped up at the bottom [22:17:15] and then you could dismiss them [22:17:21] tfinc: yeah, that was nice [22:17:51] would love to see that. [22:20:47] if you want to make that 'english deutsch espanol' thing, make it like a touch slider. [22:21:58] basically it behaves like buttons, but you switch the 'tab' while you have the element touched, and by 'sliding' all the way to the right, you could bring up more options. [22:22:32] it's a tricky one though, because it needs to be big enough, not too sensitive in the middle and not to quick on the edges. [22:23:51] in general /me like [22:23:57] hee [22:24:55] with the bottom bar, i'd never go smaller for a button than 1/6th of the bar width btw. that's about a finger. you don't want anything smaller on such an important element of your navigation flow. [22:25:59] most apps don't go over 5 tabbar/toolbar items. but 6 can work. [22:27:26] anyways, good night :D I have plenty of appwork waiting for me tomorrow again :D [22:27:42] tfinc: my apologies but I just spammed the mobile iOS feedback page. [22:30:43] also, I love that all of the bugs I submitted last time just got moved to a 'will be fixed by phonegap'. [22:30:45] ;) [22:30:50] * tfinc goes to take a look [22:31:40] also my map is never loading. is that my problem or something different? [22:31:58] maplebed: so you get to the near by screen but no tiles load ? [22:32:11] two markers load but no map tiles. [22:32:32] wacky. i hadn't seen that happen. hows your connection ? [22:39:11] full bars 3G. [22:39:14] (not wireless) [22:39:31] fwiw the native map app (google) loads quickly and without trouble. [22:39:36] k [22:39:38] * maplebed puts all this in the wiki page [22:40:31] and I eagerly await the resolution of the last bug under the 'will be fixed by phonegap' section. [22:40:44] that alone will stop me from using our app when I want info quickly. [22:41:18] the app start up time ? [22:41:21] err [22:41:28] as in the time to take to load the FA [22:42:35] maplebed: i wish iOS had the same open access to quick search api that Android has [22:42:49] on android were just part of the search widget on the home screen [22:42:57] you can search and go directly to articles [22:43:10] sadly iOS doesn't give us access to adding new data sources for spotlight [22:43:19] making NOT loading the article a good idea [22:44:05] maplebed: can you start searing while the FA article is loading? [22:44:38] in the simulator i can start searching as soon as the app starts up [22:44:41] I don't think I've tried yet. I'll tell you in a sec. [22:44:43] no need to wait for the features article to load [22:44:46] k [22:49:28] tfinc: the app is fairly unresponsive while the FA page is loading. Tapping on the search bar repeatedly finally got it focus but not until after the text had loaded (but before the image came in). [22:55:28] maplebed: i added the open bugs we already had on your listed 2.2.2 issues. only had to add one new one. [22:55:43] thankfully were already working on some mockups for references :D [22:57:34] jdlrobson: how are the new hours working out ? [22:58:01] they are a bit disorientating... was going to have a quick look at the MobileFrontend toggle issue now and see if i can sort that out [22:59:46] ok. I added four more bugs to that page. I think it's time to stop testing and go back to building swift storage bricks. :P [23:00:26] yay bricks [23:01:03] jdlrobson: heads up that the designers are tidying up the first round of serious design mockups for the mobile site [23:01:16] coming at you in the next day or so for discussion [23:01:22] then we can schedule the work :D [23:01:33] i'll mail you all after some tiny polish [23:01:38] k [23:11:50] -1% growth for Feb [23:11:52] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyMobile.htm [23:12:21] philinje: we need to find out if our Android app views are no longer going into this count [23:13:03] granted historically we do take a dip in Feb [23:24:34] Pressing settings takes you to Saved pages [23:24:36] Well, that's broken [23:24:52] And More -> Settings does nothing [23:25:01] Reedy: where? [23:25:19] 1.1beta2 Android or 1.1beat1 iOS ? [23:25:23] beta* [23:25:25] hmm, more updates [23:25:34] git head [23:25:37] android [23:25:39] k [23:26:03] yeah, the whole settings [23:26:05] bah [23:26:12] the whole menu is fubared [23:26:26] who broke trunk ... [23:26:27] ;) [23:26:34] And apparently there seems to be 2 different menus [23:26:34] wtf [23:27:34] And now it seems ok... [23:28:28] i'm building off of head to see if i can duplicate it [23:30:09] more->settings worked just fine for me [23:30:15] albiet slow [23:30:22] we should stop blocking on loading the lang list [23:30:27] thats why it takes so long [23:32:01] I wonder what my phone was doing before... [23:38:13] Reedy: your phones always do something weird [23:38:17] thats why we like you as a tester [23:38:19] :D [23:39:38] * Reedy goes to hide from the googles [23:43:16] Astagi: you around? [23:43:57] Jamesofur: have you had a chance to take out new iOS beta our for a spin ? [23:44:00] out* [23:45:08] heya tfinc! [23:45:12] how are you? [23:46:35] tfinc quick question - how do you edit your hosts file for the android emulators? it doesn't seem to use my /etc/hosts [23:46:58] Astagi: been a while seen we've chatted .. hows the hacking been going ? [23:47:10] jdlrobson: i've never had to do that with the android emu [23:47:41] i've checked the android app v1.0 and i need to point it at my localhost mobilefrontend [23:47:45] yeah that's true tfinc was busy with work and organizing the ubuntu global jam in my city :P [23:47:48] ill google [23:47:55] doesn't it not respect /etc/hosts ? [23:48:08] nope [23:48:10] jdlrobson: http://www.bradcurtis.com/2011/02/13/hosts-file-google-android-emulator/ [23:48:12] http://eclecticdreams.com/blog/getting-a-hosts-file-onto-an-android-emulator [23:48:19] guess its the same thing :) [23:48:24] seems a pain [23:48:31] don't have anything new tfinc :) have 2 pull request pending at the moment, one fixes some bug on tablets [23:49:41] Astagi: gotcha. whats the scope of the ubuntu global jam ? [23:50:00] jdlrobson: it looks easy [23:50:07] yeh its proving so [23:50:11] just modify /system/etc/hosts in your avd [23:50:13] i think its the tiredness :) [23:50:40]