[01:08:42] inbox(0) .. now i can leave [01:22:30] well played sir. [01:22:37] maybe you can stick around longer and get mine to 0? [01:22:44] tfinc ^ [01:23:00] awjr: use filters/stars/etc .. makes it easy then [01:23:08] select all -> delete [01:23:12] also works :p [01:23:15] now i do have to do something about star(111) though [01:23:21] lol [01:23:26] star for me means i have to follow up in some way [01:23:33] while the inbox is simply for triage [01:24:16] i remember when i used to sit around and refresh my inbox to see if just maybe someone sent me an email [01:24:27] and now… inboxes are for email triage. [01:29:49] ok. i know have less then 100 emails that are starred [01:29:55] going to claim victory and go climbin [01:29:56] b [01:29:57] g [01:29:59] :) [01:30:23] climb on! [11:45:49] so I finally saw Julian Assange in my hometown [11:46:10] he was in a menacing hoodie [11:54:57] "menacing"? [11:56:31] he has white skin, blonde hair and he had a grey hoodie [11:56:43] he reminded me of one of those scary monks [11:56:51] :) [11:57:11] he looked straight in my eyes like he was trying to read my mind [11:57:18] and read my secrets [11:57:30] and publish them? [11:57:35] exactly! [11:57:41] i know how he does it now [11:57:43] i'm sure that's how [11:59:18] jdlrobson, I like wearing hoodies too [11:59:23] so do i [11:59:27] * MaxSem greetingly bites yuvipanda [11:59:29] but there's no need to look menacing [12:05:55] MaxSem: I like hoodies too, but it's usually too hot to wear them here [12:06:10] jdlrobson: #achievemenetunlocked [12:06:19] and I doubt I can ever look menacing [12:06:23] what badge? [12:07:22] Survived Menacing Encounter With Blonde In a Hoodie [12:07:43] move the menacing to just before the blonde [12:07:47] or just before the hoodie [12:08:00] not just any blonde in hoodie [12:08:12] THE blonde? [12:08:20] perhaps? [12:08:30] "Found out what was in the Insurance file" Badge? [12:08:33] this was mr wikileaks himself! http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/season_15/sp_1510_14.jpg [12:09:57] hehe [12:10:06] interesting that I remember meeting only one blonde pereson [12:10:17] and that'd be storm in our office [16:08:34] greetings all [16:08:43] jdlrobson: shall we? [16:09:36] jdlrobson: ready when you are [16:09:40] yep [16:09:41] i am [16:21:02] heatherw philinje -> http://jonrobson.me.uk/wikipedia/ [16:21:09] work in progress thought you might be interested [16:21:24] feel free to critique :) [16:21:37] and preilly -> http://jonrobson.me.uk/wikipedia/ [16:21:45] not bad, not bad [16:22:03] can you use the smaller arrow? :) those are giant [16:22:20] nice! [16:22:33] I'd like to see more visual separation between collapsed sections and collapsed copyright information [16:22:56] i can do heatherw definitely [16:24:02] i can do anything we want to do :) [16:24:11] question- > the links View this page on regular Jon Robson Disable images on mobile site Mobile site feedback Permanently disable mobile site Log out [16:24:18] we wanting to move them elsewhere? e.g. a settings page? [16:24:37] i think awjr (?) was talking about doing such a thing [16:24:42] maybe collapse [16:24:52] i had to improvise for that as it wasn't covered in the designs [16:24:58] also, full-scren search scared me [16:25:16] MaxSem my hope is to fade it in/out to make it less scary [16:25:28] upon clicking on input field everything disappeared! [16:26:03] also im not sure how to generate the footer links (contact->disclaimer) in php code [16:26:05] MaxSem: that is what it's supposed to do [16:26:10] could someone point me to a magic link i can use for that? [16:26:48] jdlrobson: bing makes it far less scary [16:26:55] it has a smooth transition [16:26:56] jdlrobson: well, we don't explicitly create the footer links [16:26:59] m.bing.com [16:27:06] * preilly on a mobile device [16:27:32] also please use the small (x) [16:27:41] not the 2X one :) [16:27:49] make sure that you go to m.bing.com on a mobile device otherwise it looks like ass [16:28:05] it looks like ass on my android [16:28:13] * jdlrobson checks iphone [16:28:30] yeh they are using fade ins and outs on iphone [16:28:36] that's why it is less scary [16:28:40] that's on my to do list [16:28:49] i was using the small x heatherw [16:29:04] ooh really? [16:29:07] wild [16:29:09] im sure i was [16:29:12] jdlrobson: yeah, but those transitions aren't universally available [16:29:25] i can resize them though [16:29:26] seem how that looks [16:29:48] they are 18px high [16:30:07] the x should be shorter than the arrow :) [16:30:25] I'm curious why are the arrows on the right hand side of the page? [16:30:25] 1 min.. [16:30:27] let me tweak [16:30:48] tfinc, there's currently an OAuth discussion on wikitech-l, and it's on my RfP. are there still plans to do it? [16:31:10] MaxSem: OAuth would be awesome for non wmf apps that want to edit [16:31:55] but I don't see it in out mid-term roadmap [16:32:03] s/out/our/ [16:32:12] heatherw better? - > http://jonrobson.me.uk/wikipedia/# [16:32:23] MaxSem: spec it out and then we can figure out where we can put it [16:32:31] i'd love to see a breakdown of what would need to get done [16:32:41] also preilly - it's a good question about the arrows - im sure i read some research somewhere that suggested users find it more natural to find controls on LHS of screen [16:33:14] preilly: did orange seriously send us a slide deck to explain their own outage ? [16:33:48] http://www.useit.com/alertbox/horizontal-attention.html [16:34:20] umm, core would need a permissions system rewrite [16:34:35] heatherw philinje would be interested in your thoughts with regards to show/hide buttons ^ [16:34:51] yes! believe it or not could still be slightly smaller (the x) [16:35:01] show hide need to be much smaller [16:35:02] depending on how granular we want it to be, may be quite serious [16:36:24] also, do we need so much stuff in the footer? a lot was removed in the design. [16:37:07] heatherw: jdlrobson: question- > the links View this page on regular Jon Robson Disable images on mobile site Mobile site feedback Permanently disable mobile site Log out [16:37:07] [16:23] jdlrobson: we wanting to move them elsewhere? e.g. a settings page? [16:37:18] * jdlrobson tries smaller icons [16:37:21] i hate to pick it apart before saying yay! great start :) [16:38:02] no pick away [16:38:13] show hide probably don't want to be smaller - otherwise they might be too hard to click? [16:38:30] and not noticeable.. [16:38:39] no, they are way too big and look (imo) not so great [16:39:16] the proportions are really important [16:39:27] they are what make simple designs work [16:40:36] how big would you suggest? [16:42:11] jdlrobson: I'd actually say show/hide is too small right now (e.g., very hard to activate on mobile device with touch.) [16:42:36] i would suggest http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_design/Footer [16:42:39] well the touch area can be big and the icons small [16:42:43] i am on my phone right now [16:43:00] they are huge [16:43:08] so those look like 8px height [16:43:14] give them a little space :) [16:43:15] according to my measurements :) [16:43:30] the-good-eye [16:44:08] better? [16:44:10] (refresh) [16:44:33] yes! now too close to the edge :) [16:45:02] jdlrobson: heads up that were getting otrs tickets from blackberry users for various issues with small fonts, search, etc in produciton [16:45:05] (may be too small) axly [16:45:12] jdlrobson: how many of the mobile developers have access to OTRS? specifically the info-en queue, there's a few mobile questions that you guys might be more suited to answering [16:45:14] jdlrobson: most recent "The subject box suddenly became too thin for any font on my BlackBerry" [16:45:22] i'll add it to the bug i opened yesterday [16:45:40] I don't have access to OTRS [16:45:53] and/or tfinc :) [16:45:53] in bugzilla [16:46:11] Thehelpfulone: i'm already on it [16:46:13] and check them weekly [16:46:19] 99% of the time its a waste of time [16:46:20] when I was on OTRS, there was no dedicated tech queue, is it still the case? [16:46:20] as its spam [16:46:27] i would say 50% bigger and spaced from the side like the other icons [16:46:54] MaxSem: nope, there is one [16:47:02] well it's a subqueue of info-en [16:47:10] i already monitor the queue [16:47:20] but as i said above. its useless 99% of the time [16:47:27] this is one of those rare cases where its not [16:47:33] and i've already started to open up bugs [16:47:44] Thehelpfulone: scroll up to my comments to jdlrobson about blackberrys [16:48:03] ah ok [16:48:12] OTRS was a major factor in my burnout that caused me to leave WP for 3 years [16:48:24] Thehelpfulone: it would be nice if OTRS actually had any useful spam filtering [16:48:43] as its just noise these days [16:48:51] heh [16:48:58] there's otrs 3.0 coming soon we hope [16:49:12] SpamAssasin is ineffective these days? [16:49:30] whatever otrs is using is crap [16:50:28] tfinc, User:Hcatlin no longer works for the foundation right? [16:50:30] jdlrobson: i like that you can open the subject by touching the entire line (the subject itself) it makes the arrow less important [16:50:37] Thehelpfulone: correct [16:50:56] Thehelpfulone: yup [16:51:02] did i not update my profile yet? [16:51:09] yeh that's always been the case. there's also transitions to make it a bit smoother [16:51:20] hcatlin: ah you did, I didn't see anything there [16:52:02] on the blackberries i'll look forward to that ;-) - i'm finding blackberry a pain to test as i could do with some real devices as they seem to vary **so much** [16:52:27] jdlrobson: when your in the office it'll be easier :) [16:52:28] tfinc, feel free to add more of the mobile team to otrs :) [16:52:30] i have a handful of them [16:52:32] can't wait :) [16:52:41] jdlrobson: those show/hide are crazy small nwo [16:52:42] [16:52:43] seriously perfecto makes me cry [16:52:48] s/nwo/now [16:53:01] jdlrobson: here is our real device testing list https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Technical/Mobile/Testing_Devices [16:53:15] in blackberry especially scrolling takes **foreeeeevveerr*** [16:53:44] yup could be 25-50% bigger (the arrows) [16:54:07] i need one of these -> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3pzXydA_9sg/SlhHgKN_68I/AAAAAAAAAFg/HmzjvmGLbnA/s320/Drinking-Bird-Simpsons-01.jpg [16:54:16] hehe [16:54:47] heatherw have you got web inspector or similar? could you suggest a height for the toggle buttons that would be suitable? [16:54:54] can references and external links have the same spacing between them as the other headers? [16:55:21] i don't, i'm sorry [16:55:27] k no problem [16:55:39] Yeh I think there's some weird formatting going on external links/references [16:55:40] try 12 if they are 8? [16:55:43] haven't quite looked into that yet [16:55:49] they are currently 8 [16:55:56] i thought they were 12 before but will try again [16:56:03] oh jeez, sorry [16:56:06] then 10 [16:56:34] k try now they are 10px [16:57:28] much better! and i have plenty of space to click on the whole row [16:58:03] jdlrobson: the ^ and down arrow don't work as a touch surface on my nexus s. the subject headers do though [16:58:05] bizarre [16:58:38] probably to do with float right [16:58:44] that sometimes causes issues [16:59:41] jdlrobson: lindsey got illustrator from office it [16:59:53] ok so will i need to do the same? [17:00:15] i can make things into PS for you [17:00:37] i just assumed you had AI because they come bundled together [17:01:55] jdlrobson: i'm getting chip (it) to see if they have any more licenses [17:02:11] i dont have PS either [17:02:15] oh! [17:02:21] i used to but license was on my old work laptop [17:02:24] jdlrobson: it would come with both [17:02:24] with old work licenses [17:02:24] someone said you did, i'm sorry [17:02:49] the creative suite that we have is illustrator and photoshop [17:02:51] probably might fault for being confused! [17:28:22] awjr: http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2012/03/wikimedia-mobile-frontend-is-opening-up.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter [17:28:36] he really should credit you on the post [17:28:53] tfinc: ah yeah, funny - i *just* read an email he sent me about the post [17:33:56] * tfinc wonders if it'll be obvious to our users that subject headers are a touch surface too [17:33:59] once you know its awesome [17:35:05] jdlrobson: we'll want to time the design changes with a blog post from you [17:35:10] i can help [17:35:17] it'll be fun to let people know about this [17:35:29] * yuvipanda sighs about iWebInspector not working still and goes back to console.log debugging [17:35:51] yuvipanda: @firt hasn't merged in your fix ? [17:36:07] tfinc: that tool isn't open source! [17:36:13] it also works only with xcode 4.2, and I have 4.3 [17:36:26] tfinc: and he sent me a beta that no longer crashes but doesn't work either [17:36:31] i got back to him but haven't heard back yet [17:36:33] lame [17:36:40] what a slacker. almost like he has a real job [17:36:53] yuvipanda: hows our feedback looking ? [17:36:56] for the beta [17:37:09] tfinc: hehe. [17:37:22] tfinc: pretty good, i've 2 outstanding things that i'm fixing. [17:37:29] after that final beta, and RC then release. [17:37:34] jdlrobson: adobe creative suite license key coming your way [17:37:38] we've a few from kaldari that I want to get to once this is done. [17:37:44] yeyy [17:37:50] is there a download link too? [17:38:52] jdlrobson: sorry, been in meeting land [17:39:12] jdlrobson: there is if you read the email [17:40:02] awesome [17:40:07] many thanks for sorting this tfinc [17:40:26] jdlrobson: thats what i do. i make it easier for you guys to get good work done. [17:40:29] and remove the busy work :D [17:41:11] jdlrobson: were you making the argument earlier that the arrowheads should be on the left edge? [17:41:52] preilly challenged and i opened it up for debate yes - but it's worth noting that clicking anywhere on the section heading opens it [17:48:10] could be worth seeing a version like that - the current arrangement would not work so well on wide screens, i think [17:50:34] philinje: why wouldn't it work well ? its far easier to tap the far right side of the screen rather then the middle. were using the far left for navigation, saved pages, etc [17:51:49] philinje: what did you think of the micro tasks that i added ? [17:51:59] for the "Microtask experimentation" [17:54:48] preilly: can you nudge lindsey to join irc ? [18:05:38] philinje: --^ [18:06:33] in other words, just to the left of the section heading [18:06:49] there is no line following the section heading across to the right [18:18:11] philinje: where can i find the workflows that lindsey is working on ? [18:23:11] wifi is fun [18:23:58] tfinc_: about Wikimania. Mobile talks? [18:24:09] yuvipanda: i'm going to be putting some in [18:24:10] you should too [18:24:12] :D [18:24:14] i should mail mobile-tech [18:24:30] yes, I wanted to know what you're putting in so I can not do that :) [18:25:08] also, spotify is amazing. [18:25:09] Lucky europeans [18:25:12] you should talk about phone gap, front end dev, etc [18:25:19] yuvipanda: we have spottily in the states [18:25:25] spotify [18:25:41] chrismcmahon: i'm failing trying to find your leads about our mobile qa position [18:25:44] what was the subject line? [18:25:54] now that the first week of budget planning is done i can get back to it [18:26:09] tfinc_: well, I spent a few minutes a week or so ago going through your political process. Not saying 'lucky americans' for a while :P [18:26:12] tfinc: one sec... [18:26:47] think of our beer yuvi .. then you'll call us lucky [18:26:55] i'm sure awjr would concur [18:27:03] lucky americans [18:27:30] did someone say beer? [18:28:01] tfinc: I hold you responsible for the fact that I've not been able to have a single shot of beer since Pune. My body rejects KF now [18:28:12] awjr one of our post climbing spots now brews .. a delightful porter [18:28:15] its fantastic [18:28:30] yuvipanda: your welcome [18:28:43] tfinc: ! awesome where? [18:28:45] tfinc: re-sent email thread just now [18:29:05] there it is [18:29:07] thanks! [18:32:06] tfinc: the Photo Upload project page has a link to the Basic wireframes and Lindsey posted something yesterday [18:32:23] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MobileFrontend/Photo_upload/Basic_screen-flows [18:33:12] philinje: thanks. i'm adding them to the roadmap. in the future we'll likely trim it and put it all on the project page [18:47:34] why do we need an extra mobileRedirect.php? [18:49:14] LepacaKliffoth: preilly can likely answer that [18:50:40] awjr, is there a difference between "View this page on regular {{SITENAME}}" and "Permanently disable mobile site" now? [18:52:55] cause looks like the former does the same as latter, but doesn't ask for confirmation [18:53:23] LepacaKliffoth: Permanently sets a cookie [18:53:33] View does not [18:54:10] that's what it used to be [18:54:24] if it doesn't then something broe [18:54:26] broke* [18:54:31] thats how their supposed to work [18:55:32] LepacaKliffoth: are you talking about : "{$wgServer}/w/mobileRedirect.php";... [18:55:47] preilly, yes [18:57:16] where is its source code, btw? [18:57:32] tfinc: single login works for me [18:57:41] philinje: huh ? [18:57:50] context ? [18:58:04] LepacaKliffoth: that is legacy and has been in place since the days of the ruby gateway [18:58:09] logging in to Wikipedia logs me into Commons [18:59:08] preilly, so we can use our existing entry points now... where are the sources so that I could look at porting it? [18:59:27] philinje: whats your username on en wiki ? i'm seeing you as pchang on mw but not en. [19:00:08] Philinje [19:00:31] for both WP and Commons [19:00:56] philinje: yup, you have a global account http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ACentralAuth&target=Philinje [19:01:08] LepacaKliffoth: good question - I'm actually not positive off the top of my head how the "disable mobile view permanantly" works or what specifically it does. i'm in the middle of something else and can't look right now but i can double check for you in about an hour [19:01:49] awjr, poke me for my steps when you're ready [19:02:05] tfinc: is a global account what Foundation people get? [19:02:08] awjr: it sets a cookie that makes squid bypass the mobile view [19:02:27] or to be correct .. makes it not set mobile header [19:02:54] LepacaKliffoth: if what tfinc said is still the case/correct than no, they function very differently [19:03:33] philinje: yup. they would have created a global account for you as you needed access to more then one wiki [19:04:58] hang on, no one created my Philinje account, I did [19:05:29] LepacaKliffoth: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1517396 [19:06:59] LepacaKliffoth: that is the source of mobileRedirect.php [19:07:15] philinje: then you chose to either make it an SUL (single user login) or someone did it for you [19:07:26] philinje: i just created a new account and it did NOT go across wikis http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ACentralAuth&target=Tfinc_testing2 [19:10:28] preilly, so it also doesn't support https :) [19:10:50] LepacaKliffoth: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ works just fine ;) [19:11:10] tfinc, I'm speaking about trunk, not deployment [19:12:37] were pretty much running trunk in deployment [19:12:44] its only a handful of days behind [19:12:49] and will be updated again today [19:13:16] well, I'm speaking right about what's changed;) [19:13:46] LepacaKliffoth: what change rev are you talking about? I'm just not seeing what your getting at. [19:13:51] meh, I'm not listening Therion no2w, can change it back... [19:14:01] lolz [19:14:39] I'm talking about awjr's sticky cookies [19:14:44] ahh [19:16:41] hmm, should I commit my MobileFormatter refactoring now, or delay it until after deployment? [19:17:45] i wish we could be on git so you wouldn't need to wait for things like that [19:21:13] well, we'll allegedly switch in one week. I wanted to post my RFC regarding moving MobileFormatter's basic functionality into core today, but I laso wanted to have it in SVN at that time [19:21:39] just grab awjr_lunch after lunch and sync up [19:35:38] yuvipanda: http://phonegap.ics.com/2012/03/odds-n-ends.html [19:35:49] * yuvipanda checks [19:38:14] tfinc: ah, that would be F_P's work. [19:38:19] he got it to run on his N9 [19:38:26] nice [19:38:30] but was only half working, needed more work on qt end [19:38:38] told me he'll poke me when it becomes more stable [19:38:49] i'm going to tweet about it [19:38:58] PhoneGap for the win [19:39:19] tfinc: yes! [19:39:26] and he told me he didn't have to many too many changes [19:39:32] to get a basic version up and running [19:39:34] about 30 mins [19:59:16] MaxSem: yo what's up? [19:59:58] i heard you wanted to chat about my sticky cookies? [20:00:05] ROFL [20:01:01] wow. context… needed. [20:01:05] ( :: ))))))))) [20:01:36] I believe the word awjr was looking for was 'phrasing!' [20:01:56] ahahahaha [20:02:36] ha ha ha [20:06:49] anybody available to review this before today's deployment? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/113439 [20:07:03] preilly, MaxSem, jdlrobson, yuvipanda ^ [20:07:11] awjr, 1) we're on normal site, click on "Mobile view". it shows us mobile view of the page, and if we hit back and F5, normal site continues serving mobile content from now on [20:07:11] 2) we click on "View this page on regular {{SITENAME}}". we see non-mobile content, and site continues serving non-mobile content from now on [20:07:11] 3) repeat (1), then click "Permanently disable mobile site", we see a confirmation dialog, and then it supposedly switches back but due to lack of mobileRedirect.php it's just a 404 [20:07:17] so, (2) and (3) which before were supposed to do different things now do the same [20:07:45] just (3) asks for confirmation and (2) does not [20:10:07] awjr, basically, that's my review of this rev:) [20:10:10] MaxSem: i see. i dont think it's necessary for (2) to ask for confirmation [20:10:26] (3) must've been broken before that rev then [20:11:18] if it put that file in, (3) will apparently work [20:11:24] you can grab http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1517396 [20:11:41] it is the mobileRedirect.php file [20:12:21] awjr, my concern is that (2) and (3) duplicate each other and (2) is now permanent although it wasn't so before [20:12:47] preilly: so is mobileRedirect.php available on the cluster? [20:12:56] awjr: yes [20:13:11] but it's not in svn anywhere? [20:13:16] yet? [20:13:25] awjr: it's a common file [20:13:58] preilly: we should probably just move it into MobileFrontend [20:14:02] awjr: /home/wikipedia/common/live-1.5 [20:14:16] awjr: on fenari [20:15:22] we should make it an index.php action, no need for an extra entry point [20:15:50] awjr: we should probably just move that functionality into the extension [20:16:02] MaxSem: ultimately yeah but for now we can just put it in MobileFrontend [20:16:05] preilly: yeah [20:16:48] MaxSem: 2 and 3 are not actually duplicates of eachother [20:17:25] 2 unsets a cookie that was set to always force mobile view [20:17:36] whereas 3 sets a cookie to block mobile view [20:18:25] we should integrate mobileRedirect.php functionality into MobileFrontend and make MF obey the 'stopMobileRedirect' cookie [20:18:38] i don't think at the moment it does [20:20:20] so currently, 'permanantly disable mobile site' is broken (which i guess is a bug) [20:20:40] awjr: stopMobileRedirect effects the squid layer [20:20:52] what's the difference between them, then? [20:21:08] awjr: it blocks the automatic mobile redirect [20:21:51] ah i see ok [20:22:14] but prielly, it's still useless for anyone other than the WMF then [20:22:20] and the functionality will appear broken [20:22:41] is this a regression after last weeks push? [20:22:42] awjr: that is indeed a factual statement [20:22:56] tfinc: no [20:23:41]