[00:01:34] tfinc: well, I only know what the API tells me [00:01:56] i'm guessing we'll have to setup an eventID for this [00:02:05] and use additional to store extra stuff [00:02:54] tfinc: have been unable to find docs on it, and DarTar isn't responding on IRC for now. [00:05:35] ZombiePanda: you can store state information right? [00:05:52] ZombiePanda: i'm trying to find an existing filter that uses click tracking [00:05:58] preilly: yes [00:07:05] preilly: i'm thinking of sending in UA [00:08:15] Ohai/0.1 [00:08:33] Ohai/0.1 (Like somethingElse/4.1) [00:09:50] PossiblyChrome/0.5 MaybeSafari/1.6 PartMozilla/10 RelatedToGoogleBot/1.3 [00:13:29] ZombiePanda: were in luck .. i have an iOS 4.2 device :) [00:13:37] s/device/iPhone [00:13:59] tfinc: test! [00:14:29] ZombiePanda: i also did a first major/minor pass through http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/Wikipedia-iOS-3-1-1-issues [00:14:35] now i'm moving to verification on other hardware [00:14:36] then bugs [00:14:45] then an email to the team about where we have to focus [00:14:55] i want to take care of the busy work so that you guys can focus on fixes [00:15:10] tfinc: delay after pressing button - 'which button'? [00:15:18] hmm, i'll just wait for you to finish up i guess [00:15:26] ZombiePanda: in general .. my case was settings [00:15:41] but yes .. give me some time to put this together [00:15:47] i just wanted to give you a preview [00:17:50] ok [00:21:57] ZombiePanda: its super broken on iOS 4.2 [00:22:12] tfinc: saw the etherpad [00:23:26] i wish that i could get a page loaded to know if it has the same scrolling issues [00:24:22] YuviPanda: i'm going to install the 4.3 simulator and do the same tests [00:24:28] wish they had a 4.2 emulator [00:24:28] tfinc: ok [00:25:03] tfinc: they don't. I'm wondering how i could debug this [00:28:46] i could give brion the phone to debug over the weekend :) [00:33:08] YuviPanda: i can't replicate the issues on the 4.3 Simulator [00:33:19] scrolling* [00:33:25] tfinc: yeah, I tried yesterday with the 4.3 one as well. [00:33:28] seemd ok [00:33:39] tfinc: we also have the option of dropping 4.2 support [00:34:20] preilly: how are you Xcode debug chops to see if we can make 4.2 work ? specifically there is something seriously wrong with retrieving and data other then geonames.org [00:34:31] i can do it but i'm sure you'd be faster with it [00:34:50] tfinc: I can look at it Monday [00:35:41] could you do a quick pass right now ? otherwise i'll do it tonight [00:35:57] brion: unless you want to tackle it [00:36:09] we only have one 4.2 device and no simulator support for it [00:36:20] i'm going to start filing bugs [00:37:52] Download xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3.dmg (note - you need a developer account to access this software. I have instead linked to an open-to-the-public Apple discussion that contains the direct download link [00:37:52] Mount the .dmg file [00:37:53] Inside the disk image there is an invisible "Packages" folder. To open it select "Go to folder..." command from Finder menu bar and digit the path "/Volumes/Xcode and iOS SDK/Packages/" [00:37:55] Now double-click "iPhoneSimulatorSDK4_2.pkg" [00:37:56] Click into the destination disk and a button "Select folder..." will be revealed [00:37:58] Click the above button and select your "Developer" folder [00:37:59] Install and Restart Xcode. [00:38:01] This will install the Simulator 4.2 SDK (both iPad and iPhone) inside the folder "/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/SDKs/" [00:38:02] Now inside XCode 4.2 you can select this simulator from the menu. [00:38:26] i like that the first result for xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3.dmg is a torrent [00:38:41] tfinc: actually http://www.rawsound.com/archive/index.php?dir=Programming/Install%20Xcode.app/Contents/Resources/Packages/ [00:38:58] sorry, I mean: http://www.rawsound.com/archive/index.php?dir=Programming/Install%20Xcode.app/Contents/Resources/Packages/&file=iPhoneSimulatorSDK4_2.pkg [00:39:01] pulling iPhoneSimulatorSDK4_2.pkg [00:39:11] its a super slow site [00:39:58] found it https://developer.apple.com/devcenter/download.action?path=/Developer_Tools/xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3__final/xcode_3.2.6_and_ios_sdk_4.3.dmg [00:40:05] 4Gb download [00:40:27] you guys… you can install legacy ios debugging support in the current xcode :p [00:40:31] 9.3 kB/s - 720 kB of 451 MB, 13 hours left [00:40:38] preferences -> downloads -> components [00:40:47] Rolken: not 4.2 [00:40:48] \o/ [00:40:54] Rolken: no simulator for 4.2 [00:40:58] 5.0 and 4.3 simulator... [00:41:02] ooh you're right! darn! [00:41:05] 4.0-4.1 and 3.0-3.2.2 device debugging support [00:41:16] 4.2 may be screwed heh [00:41:16] well that's goofy [00:41:21] exactly [00:41:22] never mind then ^^ [00:41:50] i know i at least tested in the 4.3 simulator at some point [00:57:27] * tfinc returns from filing bugs [01:02:13] Tomasz p0wns bugzilla [01:02:26] :D [01:22:08] so 4.2 startup is really interesting [01:22:16] 1) the app chime loads [01:22:35] 2) in 1-3 second the spinner shows up [01:23:20] 3) spinner disappears and the nav bar completely disappears [01:23:49] ... [01:23:58] 4) nav bar reloads [01:24:22] 5) search box spinner starts up [01:24:32] 6) page not available screen loads [01:24:37] 4/5 are timed really closely [01:24:48] YuviPanda: #3 is the most interesting to me [01:24:51] what would cause that? [01:25:48] tfinc: no idea. Looking around... [01:26:26] i thought it might've been iScroll not initializing but that code seems ok [01:27:26] also note that for #3 *only* the nav bar disappears .. the top search bar *never* goes away [01:27:43] that looks like possibly iScroll 4 just initializing? [01:27:49] how far apart are 3 and 4? [01:29:31] tfinc: ^ [01:30:15] a second at most .. i just made a video of it [01:30:25] s/made/recorded [01:30:59] YuviPanda: should be in your inbox now [01:31:11] its blurry but with my timeline you should be able to see each of the step [01:31:13] s [01:31:16] tfinc:checking [01:34:00] and by checking i meant 'waiting for it to download' :) [01:34:05] 7megs :D [01:34:27] you'll have to tilt your head .. sadly my phone doesn't allow me to rotate movies [01:34:31] tfinc: btw, I landed the click tracking code. No idea if it works though [01:34:32] :D [01:34:38] tfinc: waiting for it to download. 30s left [01:35:42] k [01:36:45] tfinc: ah [01:36:55] that looks like it being slow [01:36:59] tfinc: the first screen you see [01:37:07] is a static image we ship [01:37:27] * tfinc gets back from looking at the three crash reports that have come in [01:37:55] tfinc: so that, in essence, is just the app being slow on 4.2 :( [01:38:04] not it disappearing and re-appearing [01:38:15] when the navbar comes up, it is just coming up for the first time [01:38:37] haha… your right .. because you can't interact with it at all [01:39:19] tfinc: there would be a spinner in the middle of the screen [01:39:26] that's iOS telling you 'this is an image, sir' [01:39:30] excellent .. i got into setting this time [01:39:34] meaning i can load about [01:39:36] and try to scroll [01:39:42] ok [01:39:44] yup, its horrible [01:39:47] very jerky [01:40:23] tfinc: try loading http://cubiq.org/dropbox/iscroll4/examples/simple/ on it? [01:40:31] and check if that is jerky? [01:40:51] k [01:41:43] * tfinc waits for the page to load [01:44:14] if we can't make iOS 4.2 work then I'm debating about having the old app live right next to the new app [01:44:25] both of them can be in the store [01:44:32] if someone wants the old one they can use it [01:45:57] tfinc: not sure how that'd work. [01:45:58] two apps? [01:46:11] yes [01:47:08] hmm [01:48:07] i'm beginning to suspect that this old iPhone3 wifi antenna is pretty screwed up [01:48:11] even safari isn't loading pages now [01:48:44] ah [01:48:57] because if the 'cannot load' page turns up, that actually means no significant errors... [01:49:21] tfinc: did that page load? [01:49:38] safari was not able to load any pages for me. I'm rebooting the phone [01:49:46] ok [01:57:10] YuviPanda: i can't reliably test on this device [01:57:20] tfinc: internet issues? [01:57:26] safari just hangs on loading that page [01:57:42] looks like our scrolling library sucks on 4.2 [01:58:23] :(] [01:58:25] what does iScroll say about 4.2 ? [02:05:45] well that didn't work out very well [02:06:01] no tfinc [02:06:23] trys wifi sharing one more time [02:06:29] tfinc: ah [02:06:30] ok [02:07:40] YuviPanda: i wanted to see if a different access point would help [02:07:43] so I'm tethering on my machine [02:07:55] tfinc: helps? [02:08:02] its still trying to join [02:08:25] i just saw heatherw changes per my suggestions … beta icon looks nice [02:09:04] yes! [02:09:09] but we also need an icon internally [02:09:12] err [02:09:16] in the app top search bar [02:10:44] i finally got the phone to load the demo [02:11:09] the demo runs fine [02:11:25] hmmm [02:11:38] tfinc: you like it? really? [02:11:46] heatherw: the ribbon? [02:11:49] yah [02:11:59] the first scroll is a little jerky but its fine after that [02:12:04] nothing like what i saw in the about screen [02:12:07] heatherw: I like it too, but the ribbon seems to be in the wrong direction [02:12:23] tfinc: hmm, okay. We're possibly using iScroll wrong or this is a webview vs safari thing [02:12:34] tfinc: now that you've working internet (sortof) try the app? [02:12:50] same issue with page load [02:13:02] about screen scrolling is really jerky [02:13:02] tfinc: would you also like the ribbon to curve the other way? [02:13:34] other way? [02:15:26] convex i guess, is what i imagine YuviPanda is saying [02:16:49] YuviPanda: what do you mean by "wrong direction?" [02:16:57] tfinc: concave vs convex [02:17:05] though i could never remember which is which [02:21:55] it is currently convex, so i have no idea what i was saying :P [02:22:15] depends on which way you are looking [02:28:09] devgeeks: tfinc is doing the testing [02:28:16] on an old iPhone he found [02:28:22] hmm ? [02:28:24] hey wesleyhales [02:28:38] ah [02:28:41] better here... [02:28:47] so [02:28:52] YuviPanda: i'm drafting an email to the team now [02:29:00] tfinc: apparently devgeeks uses iScroll and has no issues [02:29:01] tfinc: ok [02:29:13] what device & iOS release ? [02:29:22] I use it mostly as part of the DataZombie's fork of jQTouch [02:29:27] but still [02:29:32] ahh you mean in general [02:29:47] I have tested it mostly under 4.3 and 5.x on iPhone4's and 3GS's [02:29:59] in my apps anyway [02:30:17] So what is it actually doing? [02:31:14] tfinc: hey hey [02:31:48] tfinc: ran through the android and ios apps today [02:32:04] wesleyhales: nice. were seeing some really bizarre issues on iOS 4.2 with it [02:32:13] trying to follow what is going on now [02:32:16] yep [02:32:33] wesleyhales: and were trying to figure out whats causing the scrolling issues that people are seeing [02:32:42] as we can only duplicate them on iOS 4.2 [02:32:55] wesleyhales: what iOS release were you testing them on ? [02:32:57] installing the simulator now [02:33:03] 5.0 sim [02:33:27] 4.2. ow [02:33:32] so old. [02:33:34] :/ [02:33:51] Hard to test. Have you got a device with that old an iOS? [02:34:14] devgeeks: ye [02:34:15] s [02:34:22] i keep lots of old devices for cases like this [02:34:39] nice [02:35:00] tfinc: we could, worst case, drop support. Testing 4.2 is always going to be a pain [02:35:27] tfinc: YuviPanda there were some interesting stats on users upgrading in iOS land [02:35:31] yes. thats one of my suggestion in the email [02:35:36] it seems most move quickly [02:35:37] i was trying to find upgrade stats [02:35:41] to newer versions [02:35:45] but i know iOS upgrades really quickly [02:35:48] 4.2 is a pretty small piece of the pie [02:35:51] wesleyhales: yes, *much* quicker than Android [02:35:55] yeah [02:36:37] http://www.marco.org/2011/11/30/more-ios-device-and-os-version-stats-from-instapaper [02:36:45] an old one as of late last year [02:37:01] 92.9% at least 4.3 [02:37:09] here is one: http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2012/01/more-than-66-of-users-have-upg.php [02:37:13] tfinc: we could check our mobile web stats [02:37:53] yeah. 4.2 is 10% [02:37:58] but that is based on localytics numbers… which is not the interwebs total [02:38:04] yeah [02:38:14] and the other is instapaper [02:38:17] I think our mobile stats would be a bit more accurate for our purposes... [02:38:20] we have the breakdown here but we'd need to know the version numbers http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm [02:38:21] rather than app numbers [02:39:12] This is the one I was looking for [02:39:13] http://david-smith.org/blog/2012/03/10/ios-5-dot-1-upgrade-stats/index.html [02:39:29] tfinc: we keep no os stats? [02:40:16] http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm [02:40:26] 0.41% [02:40:33] 603 M [02:40:56] of our total web traffic [02:41:43] which is actually pretty high [02:42:03] its bigger then almost all blackberrys combined [02:45:34] tfinc: so to test these issues you are using a physical device? correct? [02:45:44] sim only goes to 4.3 [02:46:04] YuviPanda: I'm adding a note to both our description and whats new asking for device/iOS release [02:46:14] ok [02:46:22] wesleyhales: i'm testing on device as Xcode 4.3 only goes back to iOS 4.3 [02:46:31] wesleyhales: yes, that's one of the problems with 4.2. No easy way to test. [02:46:33] wesleyhales: have you been able to replicate any of the scrolling issues that people are seeing ? [02:46:57] tfinc: so far it looks good. got a link to the issue? [02:47:12] but I am on 4.3 + 5.0 sim [02:47:21] I have an old 3.x device somewhere [02:48:45] wesleyhales: don't worry about 3.x .. it requires 4.2 and up [02:48:54] tfinc: gitcha [02:51:16] wesleyhales: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35781 [02:51:32] wesleyhales: the big problem for me is that none of us have been able to replicate the scrolling issues with 4.3+ [02:51:53] if your able to replicate it then that would be a *huge* help [02:52:35] tfinc: ok, do you know that this is isolated on 4.3? [02:52:41] I mean 4.2 [02:53:02] or it could be any version? [02:53:22] i don't. the apple app store doesn't give us the os versions for our reviewers [02:53:28] it would help a lot of it did [02:53:43] i've modified our app description so that people will leave it [02:53:54] but we have reports of it happening on the 4GS [02:54:35] tfinc: ok [02:54:57] tfinc: I'm just thinking of a lot of background processes that may be running for those users [02:55:04] causing a bad experience [02:55:23] but that is just a guess [02:55:30] could be. but we have no way of knowing that [02:55:34] right [02:55:37] just being able to reproduce it would be a huge help [02:55:48] without maxing out a test env [02:55:55] gotcha [02:55:56] ok [02:56:20] i'm going to spend tonight trying to make this old 4.2 phone work but chances are we'll just drop support for it [02:56:30] wesleyhales: so here are our big issues [02:56:37] #1 iOS 4.2 is pretty broken [02:56:57] #2 problematic scrolling across all multiple iOS releases [02:57:07] #3 were not iOS enough [02:57:15] wesleyhales: #3 we can punt for now [02:57:21] focus is on #1 and #2 [02:58:14] tfinc: ok, will see if I can come up with anything [02:58:24] wesleyhales: thanks [02:58:44] wesleyhales: our android release continues to kick butt though :D [02:59:01] its already improved our ratings [02:59:04] tfinc: :) yeah I was trolling for easy issue to send a PR on today [02:59:19] wesleyhales: chatting with YuviPanda|afk about what to pick up [03:03:46] tfinc: you pinged? [03:04:04] YuviPanda: wesleyhales is eager to squash phonegap bugs :D [03:04:07] for our app [03:04:14] got any bugs that need tending too ? [03:04:20] ofcourse :D [03:04:23] gimme ea moment [03:04:23] woot! [03:04:43] sweet :) [03:05:03] wesleyhales: YuviPanda is our PhoneGap app ninja [03:05:29] he presented with me at the PhoneGap meet up in feb [03:05:34] * tfinc needs to get a copy of that vid [03:05:42] tfinc: nice, yeah would like to see that [03:06:52] Where was the phonegap meet up? [03:07:09] Amgine: adobe hq [03:07:13] Phone gap hq is a mile or so from my house. [03:07:28] we had roughly 300 people in person+online [03:07:31] it was awesome [03:07:36] Adobe? [03:07:53] Amgine: half the team is in SF now [03:08:02] Amgine: you know Adobe bought Nitobi right? [03:08:11] Heh, no, I didn't. Sad that. [03:08:17] wesleyhales: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35778 [03:08:24] I think this is a click vs touchstart issue [03:08:36] wesleyhales: do you want to look into that? [03:08:53] YuviPanda: sure, I will see what I can do [03:09:09] tfinc: also, note that the simulator runs at the speed of your Mac's CPU, not the Phone's. So it is possible that a phone on 4.3 is also having scrolling issues [03:09:38] very true [03:09:46] YuviPanda: can you try it on perfecto ? [03:09:46] YuviPanda: however, tomorrow is a dedicated writing day for me and Sunday is Easter… so will give it a go on Monday probably [03:09:55] wesleyhales: sure [03:10:16] tfinc: Will do. Right now trying to figure out why saved pages broke again in my api redo. [03:10:24] tfinc: will test it out in 20-30 mins [03:10:32] haven't used perfecto so far.. [03:10:38] YuviPanda: do you have the log in info? [03:10:53] i'm going to head out of the office in about 10-15 [03:11:14] tfinc: YuviPanda see you guys later… it's lights out for me [03:11:20] tfinc: forward it again, i'm unable to find it in email. I could swear I saw it before though [03:11:20] then i'm stopping by the apple store to pick up a 4GS to test on [03:11:54] 3GS [03:11:55] ? [03:12:00] or 4S? [03:12:05] 4S [03:12:09] YuviPanda: forwarded [03:12:29] tfinc: thanks [03:13:28] tfinc: got it, thanks [03:13:42] * YuviPanda goes afk for 15-20 mins [03:15:45] tfinc: YuviPanda|AFK I just replicated the issue [03:15:47] I think [03:16:07] I'm using 4.3.1 [03:16:16] on a 4S device [03:16:35] scrolling sucks [03:16:40] incredibly choppy [03:16:59] wesleyhales: did you do anything in particular ? [03:17:11] tfinc: nope, just installed the app [03:17:20] k, the lines up with reviews [03:17:35] wesleyhales: what happens when you load http://cubiq.org/dropbox/iscroll4/examples/simple/ [03:17:40] thats the same exact library we use [03:18:47] scrolling is flawless with that [03:19:06] something is going on within the app [03:19:40] looks serious, because when I touch the screen to scroll the page down, it jumps to the bottom of the page [03:19:53] with a 500ms delay [03:21:01] looks like we're doing something wrong with iScroll 4 [03:21:12] it was / is pretty fine on the sim [03:21:34] YuviPanda: yes, sim looked good for me as well [03:21:51] https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile/blob/master/assets/www/ios/platform.js is where the culprit code lives [03:21:55] doScrollHack [03:22:47] YuviPanda: are the us strings reposrting correctly between iOS 4.2 and 4.3? [03:22:56] s/us/ua/ [03:23:10] brion tested them out before putting that in, let me check [03:23:48] yes it does [03:23:52] ok .. i'm heading out. should be back online in about an hour post apple store and food [03:24:38] http://www.myuseragentstring.com/useragents/apple/apple_iphone_ver4_2/ [03:24:53] http://www.myuseragentstring.com/useragents/apple/apple_iphone_ver4_3/ [03:24:55] YuviPanda: need anything before i take off? [03:25:08] tfinc: nope. [03:25:13] see you in an hour [03:25:15] or so [03:25:27] wesleyhales: i put in a bunch of debug statements there and checked. the branch is being taken [03:25:31] on my 4.3 sim [03:25:40] k [03:49:57] YuviPanda: strange thing is that the scrolling looks fine on the about us page, but the home page lags [03:56:04] wesleyhales: that's interesting [03:56:07] let me check how they differ [03:56:31] hmm, the same code gets applied on that too [03:56:45] right [03:56:45] scroller = new iScroll($el[0]); [03:56:46] $el[0].scroller = scroller; [03:58:32] yup [03:58:55] hmmm I wonder if a new scroller is being created for every page/ [03:58:56] ? [03:59:01] * YuviPanda checks [03:59:20] yeah, there has to be something weird happening [03:59:45] nope [03:59:54] it's creating once and reusing it [04:00:03] hmm [04:03:04] wait, is it creating once and reusing everywhere *except* the about us page? [04:07:22] back [04:11:28] flyingclimber: wb [04:12:13] * flyingclimber opens up a new unlocked iPhone 4s to test on [04:14:23] flyingclimber: assuming that's 5.1, it should be mostly swell [04:15:32] have we isolated the issue to a particular iOS release ? [04:16:15] flyingclimber: I'm using 4.3.1 [04:16:37] on a 4S? [04:16:41] cool [04:16:53] oh, I think I forgot iPhone 5 was the one that came out [04:17:46] YuviPanda: the iPhone5 isn't out ;) [04:18:04] ah, right. [04:18:07] it was supposed to be [04:18:10] and the 4S came out [04:18:13] give it a couple more months [04:18:13] so I was actually not wrong [04:18:16]