[00:09:48] preilly: http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2012/04/inside_the_spectacular_spanish_colonial_at_740_church.html [00:10:28] now if only i had anything even close to enough for its absurd price [00:13:05] tfinc_: hmm [00:17:34] tfinc_: my friend said he is working on a new project [00:17:35] and sent me this link https://github.com/grahamc/bonzi-buddy [00:18:23] lolz [00:21:22] awjr: you do realize that there are .m. versions of most of those already right? [00:21:33] awjr: just not the automatic redirection [00:21:44] preilly yes but there is not redirection [00:21:46] yeah. [00:22:37] preilly is there somewhere to look and see which projects already have a .m configured? [00:23:22] awjr: the dns package [00:23:37] preilly where is that? [00:23:56] shit my keyboard battery just died and i have no more fresh batteries. [00:24:58] awjr: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/debs/wikimedia-task-dns-auth/ [00:25:10] ty [00:34:34] actually i think that only gets me part of the way there [00:35:40] preilly do you know how i can actually see the list of cnames? [00:44:58] preilly: http://pastebin.com/BpFV0g7Q [00:45:30] awjr: ^^ [00:48:02] preilly so basically anything that has language subdomains already has a .m. domain configured [00:49:15] the other projects i think are all subdomains of wikimedia.org, except for wikimediafoundaiton.org and as far as i can tell none of those have .m. domains [06:36:23] reedy, jorm, preilly: am i the first one to notice that interlanguage links stopped working in 1.2 beta? [06:40:11] aharoni: they look fine on my nexus s [06:40:17] aharoni: what are you seeing? [06:40:35] if you haven't already throw that on the feedback page [07:13:50] flyingclimber: no article appears if i click them. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36403 [07:14:24] MaxSem: Hallo. App 1.2 beta on Android has a ton of pretty bad i18n bugs. [07:14:40] yo [07:15:12] Yuvi's not here [07:19:38] I'll tell him to contact you [07:45:33] MaxSem: and what's the deal with the main page in 1.2 beta? The mobile main page is disregarded and the regular main page is shown... badly. [07:46:17] fixed in git, will be deployed soonish [08:21:37] * yuvipanda pokes aharoni with http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mobile-l/2012-May/005566.html [08:27:27] YuviPanda|afk: i opened MANY bugs about 1.2 beta today, some of them quite nasty. [08:29:22] oh, and hallo :) [08:39:25] aharoni: hello :) [08:41:05] off for food, will look at them when i'm back [09:17:22] back [09:22:47] meh. Bugzilla sucks [09:23:11] YuviPanda: what's the deal with the main page in 1.2 beta? The mobile main page is disregarded and the regular main page is shown... badly. [09:24:57] aharoni: yes. Known issue. MaxSem just added API for showing the Mobile Main Page. Shall be fixed when next deploy turns up [09:25:22] I think I mentioned this as 'known issue'? [09:25:46] hmm, so body's RTL should be set according to interface language and content's according to content language [09:29:08] aharoni: Also, in the settings page, when choosig languages - it now shows both name and local name (in english). I personally find it helpful. Do you think it's a good idea? [09:29:12] (I am fixing sorting) [09:33:42] article body directionality must be set according to wiki's directionality. [09:34:00] what do you mean by body's RTL? [09:34:52] as for the settings page - it's OK, as long as it doesn't get too long to fit. it may, indeed, be helpful. [09:35:15] i don't think that it's really functionally helpful, but it may make it look less weird. [09:37:26] ok [09:37:41] aharoni: directionality of UI is based on UI language [09:37:49] but what's really important is to sort them somehow. now they are a complete mess. [09:37:50] aharoni: and directionality of content based on content language [09:37:53] yes [09:37:59] I'm fixing that right now [09:38:08] YuviPanda: yes, directionality of UI is based on UI language and directionality of content based on content language. [09:39:36] in the regular MediaWiki separation of UI directionality from content directionality was one of the oldest and the most requested features ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6100 ) [09:40:02] SPQRobin fixed it in 1.18, which was not so long ago... and we are already taking it for granted. [09:40:44] heh. [09:40:49] Just fixed that, seems to work okay [09:40:50] now sorting [09:41:33] aharoni: I'm wondering if sorting by localName (name of language in English in this case) makes more sense [09:41:38] than just unicode order sort [09:42:05] the perennial argument :) [09:42:23] i say - language's self-name in Unicode order. [09:42:23] indeed [09:42:24] :D [09:42:37] but I find Unicode order confusing [09:42:48] it is possible that it's just me :) [09:42:59] oh, it's not just you. that's why it's a perennial argument :) [09:43:07] heh [09:43:32] the 'order should not be determined by name of my language in some other language' feels a bit politicky to me... [09:43:59] and sorting by Unicode just shifts the blame to the Unicode guys :) [09:47:08] YuviPanda: are you working with Lindsey? [09:48:01] for sorting? [09:48:27] aharoni: ^ [09:48:46] context? [09:50:05] * YuviPanda is sorting them in Unicode order in Settings [10:19:37] aharoni: I've fixed 3 bugs (separate content RTL vs UI RTL, sorting in settings language list, sorting in 'read in' language list, and making the 'read in' list actually work) [10:19:41] well, that's four :) [10:20:30] aharoni: I'm looking for other bugs you've filed... [10:21:39] i marked them all as version 1.2 [10:35:06] aharoni: is https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36405 fine on the mobile web site? [10:38:34] YuviPanda: yes. [10:39:09] YuviPanda: https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII looks well in desktop Firefox [10:40:18] okay, looking into it [10:41:06] aharoni: I seem to have fixed all other RTL related bugs from https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?list_id=112078&resolution=---&resolution=LATER&resolution=DUPLICATE&query_format=advanced&version=1.2&product=Wikipedia%20App [10:41:10] aharoni: shall I make you a build? [10:41:32] yes, thank you :) [10:44:40] aharoni: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8768784/WikipediaActivity-debug.apk [10:44:45] aharoni: you'll need to uninstall the current app though [10:45:00] hmm, actually wait [10:45:03] wrong build :) [10:46:26] aharoni: try http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8768784/WikipediaActivity-debug.apk [10:50:46] oh. [10:51:02] same URL, right? [10:51:05] yes [10:51:52] installing [10:53:02] aharoni: so, I'm thinking of removing parens in 'Read in', making it a list of languages, and then having article name in smaller font under the language name [10:55:31] that may be nice. [10:55:51] but you should really consult with the new designers who are working on such things exactly. [10:56:01] will do [10:56:23] aharoni: IIRC the new design will have it all fleshed out. [10:56:59] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36404 doesn't seem to be fixed. [10:57:07] and it's probably the worst one. [10:58:00] aah, right. [10:58:18] I seem to have fixed it when system language is LTR and content language is RTL [10:58:21] fixing properly... [11:01:05] [WikipediaMobile] yuvipanda pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6RYYVg [11:01:05] [WikipediaMobile/master] Rename beta_common.css to common.css - YuviPanda [11:02:04] aharoni: try the same URL again [11:18:34] aharoni: better? [11:22:32] hmm. [11:22:46] looks like it's still broken. let me try again... [11:24:40] YuviPanda: definitely broken. [11:25:35] aharoni: hmm, I've hebrew as UI and english as content language. I do seem to be getting correct direction... [11:27:45] aharoni: can you tell me the md5 of the apk? [11:27:52] it might've been an older build [11:30:15] YuviPanda: can i see it in the phone somehow? [11:30:22] i downloaded directly to the phone. [11:30:46] I didn't modify the build info. [11:31:06] aharoni: uninstall and re-install? [11:31:15] aharoni: sorry it is not simpler [11:31:30] i tried to re-install. [11:35:59] hmm, still looks ok to me [15:54:11] When I load wikipedia on my 3DS internet browser, it loads two tabs for every article [15:58:39] GuidMorrow, thanks for reporting this [16:06:29] jdlrobson, When I load wikipedia on my 3DS internet browser, it loads two tabs for every article [16:06:43] two tabs? [16:11:11] Nintendo DS Browser <- huh. [16:13:57] MaxSem: not sure I'm understanding what issue you are reporting [16:14:32] not me [16:14:42] don't kick the messenger [16:14:51] he didn't say anything else ? :-) [16:15:12] * jdlrobson has a feeling this week will be spent fixing problems in obscure browsers [16:19:25] YuviPanda: finding lots of broken things in Wikipedia app on my phone :( [16:21:10] jdlrobson: good morning [16:21:32] hello philinje [16:21:42] jdlrobson: are all the styles broken? [16:22:07] jdlrobson: can you have a call pretty soon? [16:22:15] jdlrobson: so, we renamed beta_common.css to common.css and forgot to update the app :) [16:22:28] a few info boxes are broken YuviPanda [16:22:35] the list of languages is not in a logical order [16:22:45] the main page still appears occassionally (e.g. on switching a language) [16:22:46] t [16:22:47] jdlrobson: there's a pull req for many language related bugs that aharoni reported [16:22:53] toggling and references are very broken [16:23:20] references is laggy to appear and doesn't snap to the bottom of page or clear on scrolling like on the mobile site [16:23:23] jdlrobson: Main page MaxSem has checked in the change to the API, and should go out with next deploy [16:23:29] oh :( [16:23:36] jdlrobson: which phone? [16:23:49] and toggling is not responsive, animations troublesome and icons sometimes disappear, and on some articles with long headings they do not function at all [16:24:13] htc desire android 2.2.2 [16:24:18] (old school :)) [16:24:23] heh [16:24:41] jdlrobson, do you know a jQuery plugin for working with history? [16:24:43] philinje: i'm working PST hours today so would prefer later if that's okay.. gives me a chance to tackle what you've asked for so far [16:24:53] MaxSem: history as in history.pushState etc ? [16:25:00] yup [16:25:02] jdlrobson: this works fine on the browser? [16:25:17] YuviPanda: yes - i imagine we have some additional styles [16:25:31] also I guess our favourite iscroll has something to do with references being broken [16:25:51] iscroll isn't active unless you're on iOS 4. [16:25:51] x [16:25:56] (YuviPanda I'm compiling this into an e-mail so nothing is lost) [16:26:01] mm that's strange then [16:26:22] MaxSem: https://github.com/PaulKinlan/leviroutes [16:26:27] it's not jquery though [16:26:44] jdlrobson: I think I can steal a 2.x device for the night. Will test [16:26:53] jdlrobson: there's also a pull req you might want to merge in. Not too complex [16:26:59] yep sure - can that one wait? [16:27:09] I've got some mobile site stuff to get through today [16:27:20] I can pick the app stuff up tomorrow [16:27:29] and any other pull requests we'll surely add between now and then :) [16:27:31] hmm sure [16:29:00] jdlrobson: is now ok? [16:29:26] philinje: jdlrobson: philinje: i'm working PST hours today so would prefer later if that's okay.. gives me a chance to tackle what you've asked for so far [16:29:49] I think a call will be more productive when I've satisfied the outstanding requests [16:30:09] ok, let me know when, i am ok after the standup [16:30:12] * jdlrobson loves how people still don't get that they can edit Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mobile_Extension_Feedback#Temple_Christian_School [16:30:23] (And one above :)) [16:31:20] jdlrobson, thanks [16:31:47] jdlrobson: how about at 11? (i think that would be 7pm for you) [16:33:19] ok philinje but the later the better.. no rush [16:34:03] jdlrobson: it's ok if you're not done - it was also to discuss everything with Lindsey [16:34:37] let's say 1 or 1:30, i need to check with Lindsey too [16:34:38] * jdlrobson thinks the new feedback form should have a category 'I would like to spam" [16:35:10] linSmith: hi Lindsey, you there? [16:35:26] yep [16:35:38] how is 1 or 1:30 with Jon? [16:35:55] sure that's fine [16:36:06] any preference? [16:36:25] 1:30 [16:37:07] jdlrobson: let's say 1:30 / 9:30? [16:39:14] greetings all [16:39:52] jdlrobson: you should see some of the ones MaxSem archived/deleted [16:42:14] YuviPanda: jdlrobson MaxSem: hangout is up and running for anyone wanting to join early https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e4c28a5ec2cce1d1db916858eb4944de7341afe2?authuser=1&hl=en# [16:45:10] MaxSem: looks a bit like brion [16:45:40] did you measure the diameters at bellies? [16:46:46] awjr: hang out is up https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e4c28a5ec2cce1d1db916858eb4944de7341afe2?authuser=1&hl=en# … were doing some 3g testing first [16:47:43] cool - i just installed my ssd and upgrade to 10.7 so i should probably test as wel [16:49:37] * yuvipand1 goes to get back on wifi [16:49:39] awjr: ssh you say … nice [16:49:57] the wried connection makes a huge difference [16:50:19] wired even :) [16:50:51] tfinc: so I could hear both of you just fine. [16:50:56] Video was unusable [16:51:29] :( [16:51:39] yuvipand1: could you see us at all? [16:52:01] I could [16:52:19] think playing crisis on a pentium 2 [16:52:27] choppy frames. Updating at perhaps one every 10s [16:52:50] I am back on WiFi though, so should be better [16:52:51] heh [16:53:24] jdlrobson: cut your video if its going to be this choppy [16:53:48] jdlrobson: we barely got any of your audio [16:54:25] tfinc: were you able to hear me properly? [16:57:24] didya see me this time? [16:57:29] * yuvipand1 wonders how a mumble install for the mobile team would be [16:58:56] I like how if I forget to Unmute G+ hits me with a trout and tells me to unmute [16:59:21] YuviPanda: will do [16:59:26] haha [16:59:28] thats too funny [16:59:49] awjr: we have everyone else back on besides you [16:59:58] hah ok here i come [17:01:11] jdlrobson3: you popped off [17:01:20] MaxSem: put yourself on mute [17:05:44] linSmith: can you talk with Jon in about 10 min? [17:08:27] hmm, my collar mic was too sensitive? [17:10:25] MaxSem: yes. it picked up any small movement [17:10:54] switching back to wifi [17:12:06] bah vmware fusion is not working post upgrade [17:12:50] philinje: yeah [17:13:07] awjr: MaxSem jdlrobson YuviPanda : todays video standup worked out much better for us. how would you guys rate it ? [17:13:19] ok, let me try to get both of you on Skype [17:13:27] i thought it was pretty good except for when jon turned into a black rectangle [17:13:44] +1 for me, though I'm unsure how this would work when I'm on 3G [17:13:54] I'll probably have to turn everyone into black rectangles [17:13:56] YuviPanda: I'm betting you would have to be audio only [17:13:56] :-) yeh it was better today [17:13:59] but i could see everyone really well and hear most people really well, except for patrick [17:14:04] and somehow turn off all video [17:14:07] jdlrobson: is now good? [17:14:14] I disabled a few chrome extensions and turned off videos to try and improve things [17:14:16] awjr: thats good feedback as he was pretty far away [17:14:18] philinje: yes now is good [17:14:31] i really like the new mic though [17:14:48] that seemed to have fixed all the problems we had on monday with people not being heard [17:14:55] and the larger screen was much better to see you guys [17:15:00] awesome [17:15:07] so lets iterate with the same setup on friday [17:15:24] I'll definitely be on 3G on friday [17:15:37] in another city. Should be fun [17:15:49] tfinc_: is brion putting up his work somewhere? [17:16:00] do pay attention to your audio bar at the bottom. it can be really sensitive causing hangout to think your talking [17:16:03] YuviPanda: yes [17:16:10] let me find the link [17:16:13] cool [17:17:19] YuviPanda: https://github.com/brion/WLMTest and i cc'd you on brions mail about it [17:17:54] tfinc: when? [17:17:58] ah [17:17:59] just now [17:18:00] ok [17:29:07] YuviPanda: https://twitter.com/#!/mwbrooks/status/197702612399833088 [17:29:56] its one of the nitobi devs [17:33:22] jdlrobson: i want to pickup one or two of the praise tweets to retweet. got any favorites ? i like this one https://twitter.com/#!/Deabi23/status/197512110480166912 [17:34:13] * YuviPanda looks [17:35:05] hmm, nice [17:39:10] YuviPanda: the tweet? [17:41:34] yes [17:42:23] YuviPanda: if you've caught others let me know and we'll pick 1 or 2 of them to retweet [17:42:40] there is always my favorite from yesterday [17:42:47] the 'sexy' one? [17:42:50] yes [17:46:08] philinje: can you change the wording on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_design/Wikipedia_navigation and say that glaucus was a prototype [17:46:22] saying " Glaucus is a UX design that will be deployed" is misleading [17:47:31] maplebed: went to indian rock on sat … it was stunning [17:47:59] \o/ [17:49:14] maplebed: lots of new climbers, great weather, and awesome rock [17:49:15] i'll be back [17:49:23] let me know when! [17:56:42] preilly: you ready to talk about mobile domains? [17:57:10] awjr: not yet [17:57:16] k [17:57:20] awjr: also it would be best if we wanted for Asher [17:57:55] preilly: when will you be available? i can try and coordinate with him [17:58:31] awjr: I'm not sure [17:58:37] awjr: probably sometime this afternoon [17:59:13] binasher: what is your availability like this afternoon to talk with patrick and me about mobile domain stuff? [18:03:07] tomorrow would be better [18:03:47] binasher, preilly: what is your availability like tomorrow? when would work? [18:04:03] tfinc > "Who loves the new wikipedia mobile format on your iPhone? I know I do" and New Wikipedia mobile website is gorgeous. Sleek and fast. [18:04:04] i'm free all afternoon [18:04:07] (sorry for the delay) [18:04:24] preilly: does 3 work for you tomorrow? [18:04:45] binasher: yes [18:04:54] jdlrobson: k [18:05:02] binasher, preilly awesome thanks [18:33:55] Amgine: can you throw an update into http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/UCOSP_Spring_2012/status [18:37:39] [18:50:11] Anyone know if PFHayes pulled everything into the wiktionary mobile master? [18:52:37] Amgine: from wikipedia app master? [18:52:39] I doubt it [18:53:03] Well, that sux. [18:53:48] Amgine: okay, i'm wrong [18:53:51] he *did* pull it in [18:54:03] [18:54:09] he did so in a single merge commit of sorts, https://github.com/wikimedia/WiktionaryMobile/commit/6f80788889b2bea0b6db10cc7a94fdfd6a8d21a0 which makes it a huge commit [18:54:20] but if it still works, then woohoo [18:54:23] it was a pretty large change [18:54:44] The current RC2 doesn't actually implement it; but it's nice to know it's in there. [18:59:45] pchang_: i'm done with my changes on http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Mobile_and_Special_Projects_engineering .. I removed MobileFrontend as all activity is now in its sub projects [19:01:56] YuviPanda: ready to chat? [19:02:40] tfinc: yup [19:02:42] tfinc: skype? [19:02:49] or G+? [19:02:56] G+ [19:04:24] tfinc: I seem to be unable to invite you? [19:07:07] tfinc: I think I'm trying to invite you now [19:10:08] tfinc: you're spotty [19:10:13] liefie? [19:11:03] tfinc: lost you [19:11:24] yeah, hangout is not reliable over our wifi [19:11:35] i tried to get you for audio ghcat but it said you were unavailable [19:11:55] hmm, let me try calling you on audio? [19:14:13] * jdlrobson goes to grab some food brb [19:19:18] So, why is it again that WMF hasn't wired the offices since wifi is teht fail there? [19:21:11] YuviPanda: i can hear just fine [19:25:16] tfinc_: bakc? [19:25:22] yup [19:26:34] tfinc_: you're off [19:26:41] tfinc_: wifi at office sucks [19:27:04] i've threatened to install a ddwrt access point [19:27:07] it really didn't like that [19:27:20] New patchset: preilly; "fix for in_array() expects parameter 2 to be array" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6432 [19:27:44] tfinc_: pm? [19:27:53] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6432 [19:27:55] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6432 [19:37:11] tfinc: got my messages? [20:11:04] hi tfinc [20:14:40] MaxSem: ping [20:14:46] pong [20:15:56] MaxSem: we're trying to finalize the wikimania schedule and [20:16:16] do you know yet if you are coming? and can do your talk? [20:17:12] looks like I'm not coming [20:17:29] awww :( [20:17:39] you're coming to the berlin hackathon, though? [20:18:16] I'm on a waitlist for Wikimania in case someone approved doesn't come, but closer to the bottom of it:) [20:18:30] but I'm coming to Berlin, yes [20:22:32] MaxSem: i hope you can come but i suppose it means we can give your speaking slot to someone on the waitlist? [20:22:45] or is there someone else to do your talk? [20:24:24] MaxSem: same boat, but luckily there's someone more useful than I attending. [20:25:26] MaxSem: you around? [20:25:29] yes [20:26:05] aude, yes you can give it to someone else [20:26:41] MaxSem: we need to think about what is the best way to initialize mobile frontend when used directly in things like special pages [20:27:11] aude, i've been meaning to ask: are you guys taking into account people with multiple panels in your schedule? [20:27:12] MaxSem: e.g., special pages are executed before mobile frontend is initialized [20:27:28] i have a fear that i'm going to get double booked, since i'm on several panels. [20:27:29] preilly, I used it in sppecial pages, the global seems to be initialised [20:27:40] MaxSem: ok :/ [20:27:50] MaxSem: it's instantiated yes [20:28:07] jorm: we are and might have to move sessions around [20:28:08] MaxSem: but, various setup routines have yet to be run on it [20:28:29] k. i know i'm on andrew lih's, risker's, and fabrice's panels, as well as my own talk. [20:28:32] preilly, such as? [20:28:42] like we have odder speaking 4 times on saturday! [20:28:45] it won't work [20:28:53] jorm: ok [20:28:58] MaxSem: for example; $this->checkUserStatus(); and $this->checkUserLoggedIn(); [20:30:27] MaxSem: you can see this easily with comparing two var_dump outputs of the object at different points e.g, in and out of the main body [20:30:42] preilly, we could create a function that does all the preliminary checks and call it from all getters [20:31:10] MaxSem: well, I want us to think about it a bit and come up with the best approach [20:31:45] any other ideas? [20:32:08] MaxSem: or, move the initialization into the instantiation but we don't want it to fire unless it will be used [20:32:52] exactly. so on-demand initialization... [20:33:36] MaxSem: it's probably a good idea to wrap it in some sort of check to make sure that it's not already initialized [20:34:13] sure [20:34:17] MaxSem: plus I don't really want to clutter everything with initialization implementations [20:35:10] e.g. you don't like function foo() { $this->init(); do_foo(); } ? [20:35:56] MaxSem: not so much [20:39:29] MaxSem: we should also completely refactor the use of beforePageDisplay [20:39:56] yeah, it could mostly be merged into DOMParse() now [20:41:49] hey ramkrsna [20:42:26] jorm, hey [20:46:00] MaxSem: I'm actually not even sure we should have a ExtMobileFrontend instantiated if it isn't a mobile request [20:46:46] preilly, then we should make hook handlers static or move them to a separate class [20:47:25] hmm, and then use singleton to encapsulate instantiation and initialization [20:47:39] MaxSem: yeah [20:48:52] on further thinking, we need to initialize it for every UI request because it gets checked during skin initialization [20:49:17] MaxSem: how so? [20:49:40] see requestContextCreateSkin() [20:49:47] MaxSem: because of RequestContextCreateSkin? [20:49:55] heh [20:50:20] MaxSem: I don't think we should even attachHooks if it isn't a mobile request [20:50:31] MaxSem: thus RequestContextCreateSkin wouldn't come into play [20:51:03] MaxSem: I mean accept for SkinTemplateOutputPageBeforeExec [20:51:06] how are you going to differ them? this requires checking for request parameters and cookies [20:52:44] MaxSem: do the checks directly in efMobileFrontend_Setup [20:55:36] MaxSem: also, why is that function named efMobileFrontend_Setup [20:56:53] MaxSem: I don't seem to see that convention in other extensions [20:56:54] was called so before me [20:57:30] some extensions use the ef prefix to differentiate from core's global functions [20:57:39] MaxSem: oh, I think Reedy did that [20:57:48] though last time I checked it wasn't required [20:58:28]