[00:00:55] awjr: but for now, I'd like to check all the language variations of the email addresses [00:01:12] philinje: im taking a look now [00:01:14] awjr: can you share the configuration file for how the email addresses are generated? [00:01:50] no need to take any action now [00:01:57] awjr, preilly, what do you think about http://dpaste.com/742335/ ? I want to wrap device information in such objects to make it possible to plug external detection systems into MF [00:03:15] philinje: the configuration to generate those email addresses can be seen here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1599582 [00:03:39] got it, thanks [00:03:41] actually philinje there's a small error in that config [00:03:42] one sec [00:03:59] fr is missing [00:04:18] http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1615273 that is better [00:04:19] oh so it is. [00:05:07] philinje: that is a quick fix - should i just do it now? [00:05:18] could do if you are there [00:05:23] np [00:08:48] ok philinje, just added 'fr' and pushed it live [00:08:56] great, thanks [00:09:05] np [00:09:16] did Philippe say anything about pl-ban? [00:10:21] not to me, but i dont think there are any projects wth 'pl-ban' as a configured language [00:10:33] which was why i left it out [00:10:48] yeah, no way to tell when to use it [00:10:57] i'll just double-check with Philippe [00:12:13] philinje can you create a bug for the other outstanding issues? [00:12:41] awjr: philinje also keep in mind.. there is no rush to fix these right now. lets log the bugs and we'll pick it up in a couple weeks time [00:12:59] yeah, that's exactly why i wanted a bug created :) [00:13:04] otherwise it'll totally fall off my radar [00:13:34] i will need a bit of time to finalize feedback from Kelly and Philippe, so I will edit the talk page and then file bugs when we are final [00:13:36] plus that way some bug hungry hacker can come deal with it before i do [00:13:42] kk [00:18:01] MaxSem: that's cool [00:18:28] MaxSem: regarding IDeviceCapabilities [00:18:34] philinje: this is the report that will need a sibling mobile project rev http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyAllProjectsOriginal.htm [00:21:09] awjr: --^ we'll be able to base our calendar for the move on the traffic stats that report has [00:23:24] tfinc: you mean for automatic .m redirection of the other projects/ [00:23:29] yes [00:23:33] word [00:23:43] knowing how much traffic each one gets will aid us in knowing how many to move at once [00:23:59] and where to start [00:24:15] awjr: i've already asked phil to work with andre to start generating mobile status but we likely won't have those until post move [00:24:40] cool [00:27:26] tfinc: got a minute? [00:27:32] Thehelpfulone: sure [00:28:43] philinje: can you update http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#Core to reflect the changes in next steps … since were not doing as many variations [00:28:55] see pm :) [01:06:51] New patchset: awjrichards; "Adds MFCompatCheck class, which is intended to track compatibility issues/statuses between MobileFrontend and MW core. This will be particularly useful as MobileFrontend functionality is gradually moved into core." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6586 [01:07:10] Change abandoned: awjrichards; "Abandoned in favor of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#change,6586" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6569 [01:12:38] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6586 [01:12:41] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6586 [01:14:46] w00t [01:15:08] awjr: thanks, for getting that in [01:15:41] preilly np thanks for helping to sort out a smart approach - i think this is going to come in pretty handy [01:36:23] awjr: yeah [09:28:53] This visa process is going to be more painful than I imageined [09:28:55] * yuvipanda cringes a bit [10:11:10] * yuvipanda pokes jdlrobson  [10:13:35] hey yuvipanda [12:29:39] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "move border underneath section" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6599 [13:03:15] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "add personal information warning" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6600 [13:27:32] jdlrobson: hello! [13:27:53] hey srikanthlogic on your nokia can you go here http://jonrobson.me.uk/wikipedia/experiments/nokia-test.html and start typing and tell me if you have the black text issue? [13:28:16] jdlrobson: okay.. jam [13:30:04] jdlrobson: exists :( [13:30:13] no.. that's good :) [13:30:24] ah ok.. [13:30:27] ok i'm going to make a few changes and you tell me if the problem goes awy [13:30:40] btw Opera mini version is 6.5 (25xx build) [13:30:49] now got a latest build, checking on it [13:31:07] can you refresh your page [13:31:14] and type and tell me if the problem is still there? [13:32:55] jdlrobson: btw, images arent loading in it, but thats secondary I guess [13:33:03] that's fine [13:33:11] I couldn't get my labs instance working [13:33:15] so this will have to do [13:33:30] jdlrobson: now its a plain old textbox ? [13:34:31] if you type is it fine? [13:34:39] that's as expected srikanthlogic :) [13:35:02] yes, its fine when I type [13:36:06] ok [13:37:00] and Opera mini search bug still exists.. on the most latest version as well [13:37:21] ok we'll look into opera mini afterwards [13:37:27] thanks for checking [13:37:33] so can you refresh now [13:37:37] and see if you can still type? [13:37:54] (it will look broken) [13:38:01] but just start typing it should be focussed [13:38:06] hey yuvipanda [13:39:31] hey jdlrobson [13:39:41] jdlrobson: yes, I can see what I type, but yea it looks broken [13:39:48] iOS 4.x scrolling broken again, apparently [13:40:27] ok srikanthlogic try again now [13:40:32] should be less broken but just start typing [13:41:07] jdlrobson: #win :) I can see what I type :) [13:41:28] still not there srikanthlogic :) [13:41:41] yea, search doesnt work :) [13:42:15] but you can see what you type? [13:42:22] yes [13:42:23] try refreshing now an see if you can still see what you type [13:42:52] yes [13:43:02] * srikanthlogic also hopes no caching issues [13:43:33] k i think I know the problem.. [13:43:41] great! [13:43:58] try refreshing now [13:44:24] jdlrobson: black is back [13:44:27] ooh [13:44:51] it wasn't what i thought it was then :) [13:45:25] srikanthlogic: try refreshing now [13:46:54] jdlrobson: works fine [13:46:59] ok [13:47:06] narrowing it down [13:47:11] try refreshing now [13:47:16] i'm hoping this might do it [13:47:32] jdlrobson: black [13:47:48] not close then :) [13:48:10] aah, intercontinental debug cycles :) [13:48:27] now? [13:48:55] jdlrobson: fine [13:49:02] ok so I think I've got it [13:49:39] refresh now.. back? [13:50:43] jdlrobson: fine [13:50:48] interesting [13:51:01] and if you refresh now I'm guessing it's back? [13:51:21] jdlrobson: back [13:51:24] so the problem seems to be background: none is giving a black background on the nokia [13:51:37] jdlrobson, hi. you've changed DeviceDetection recently - is this coordinated with Squid ACL changes? [13:52:01] jdlrobson: not Nokia, some version of it. remember luc mentioned he couldnt see anything on E75 [13:52:24] ^ as in anything wrong [13:52:29] srikanthlogic: one last test - if you refresh now is it fixed? [13:52:56] jdlrobson: fine [13:53:10] jdlrobson: next up search (hope it fixes opera mini as well) [13:53:23] no MaxSem ... i wasn't aware I needed to do anything else [13:53:44] jdlrobson, this detection code doesn't actually run on WMF [13:54:12] it simply reuses X-Device header sent by squids [13:54:40] so if you change an existing device description, it will work [13:55:03] MaxSem.. what can we do then? [13:55:03] if you change the detection rules or add a new device - it will have no effect [13:55:17] so srikanthlogic the opera mini problem might have to wait - as I can't seem to connect to my labs machine [13:55:18] poke preilly for ACL changes [13:55:36] ok I'll drop him a mail now [13:55:43] jdlrobson: okay.. [13:55:59] srikanthlogic: it might just be easy to kill support for search on that browser though :/ [13:56:26] jdlrobson, also - could you update unit tests to make sure your new rules work as intended with real user-agent strings? [13:56:29] jdlrobson: right. [13:58:32] sure MaxSem will do now.. [14:01:10] jdlrobson, for the reference how it works: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/MobileFrontend [14:03:29] thanks MaxSem [14:06:05] jdlrobson: why is there a ^ still in the reference reveal implementation? Can't we get rid of it [14:06:08] ? [14:06:35] probably just an oversight [14:06:58] jdlrobson: can be gotten rid of with CSS? [14:07:02] s/\?// [14:07:05] i'm sure it can [14:07:55] .mw-cite-backlink { display: none; } should do [14:07:58] yuvipanda, have you looked at the new image pages? [14:07:59] under #mf-references, I think [14:08:04] MaxSem: no, link? [14:08:12] jdlrobson: can you make that change in MF? [14:08:31] yuvipanda, Git :p [14:08:45] ok [14:09:47] hmm, I don't see it in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,status:open+project:mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend,n,z [14:09:53] oh wait, it is merged already? [14:10:10] woo [14:10:36] MaxSem: is this running on labs onw? [14:10:37] *now? [14:10:53] dunno [14:11:01] lemme update it [14:11:44] eh, labs is in agony [14:13:01] sigh [14:13:23] * jdlrobson has forgotten how to run phpunit [14:13:58] run-tests.bat --group MobileFrontend [14:14:04] :P [14:15:29] * jdlrobson seems to be running all the core tests [14:16:42] ooh broken tests [14:21:45] ;) [14:24:05] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "add device detection tests" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6605 [14:24:06] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "fix broken tests" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6606 [14:24:06] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "fix black text on nokia S60 (see bug 36490)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6607 [14:24:14] MaxSem: ^ [14:24:34] cool [14:25:28] not the best review - https://twitter.com/#!/Shinzul/statuses/198402708821114880 [14:27:38] MaxSem: one broken test on my instance - 1) ExtMobileFrontendTest::testUpdateDesktopUrlHost with data set #1 ('http://bm.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyɛ_fɔlɔ', 'http://bm.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyɛ_fɔlɔ') Failed asserting that two strings are equal. [14:27:38] Expected-'http://bm.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyɛ_fɔlɔ' [14:27:38] actual+'http://bm.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ny?__f?_l?_' [14:28:05] mmmmmmagic [14:31:05] jdlrobson, works for me. what php version? [14:33:25] 5.3.6 [14:33:59] oh those macs [14:38:46] MaxSem: since this requires both core and MF changes, this will have to wait for the next core deploy (1.20wmf3?) and the next MF deploy after that? [14:42:59] YuviPanda, since evil back-compat cabal didn't allow me to break b/c, I made it fully compatible with nice little copypasta [14:51:57] MaxSem: isn't there a 'break everything and go to lunch' cabal too that will let us break backwards compatibility? [14:52:18] jdlrobson: can/should we change noTransitions class to a more descriptive noToggleTransitions class? [14:52:37] we could [14:52:46] can you comment on gerrit ? [14:52:52] yup, I'm all set up [14:52:54] bit busy right now [14:52:56] let me go do that [14:52:57] yeah [14:53:59] YuviPanda, where you were when the former cabal kicked the latter one? [14:54:58] Must've still been a toddler :) [14:59:35] New patchset: Yuvipanda; "Be more specific with class name to disable toggle transitions" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [14:59:42] sweet [15:00:23] my branch naming should perhaps use a bit more practice [15:31:27] * YuviPanda is setting up MF locally [16:50:42] greetings all [16:50:47] whattup [16:50:55] hello :) [16:52:00] hangout is up and running https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2720d55df6ad680af851e68866154c0e8554e712?authuser=1&hl=en# [16:52:05] we'll get started in 10min [16:52:24] will be on mobile internet today [16:53:12] so no DarkSilhouettePanda today? [16:54:04] time to switch to wired [16:55:27] hmm, G+ lets me mute people selectively but not hide video selectively [16:55:45] What a wonderful view of the ventilation pipes [16:56:17] lame [16:58:31] MaxSem jdlrobson awjr https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2720d55df6ad680af851e68866154c0e8554e712?authuser=1&hl=en# [17:00:45] New review: Jdlrobson; "I kept the name generic as I suspect we will need to turn off transitions in other parts of the mobi..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [17:10:23] still slightly choppy audio [17:10:34] did i hear indian radio in the background YuviPanda [17:11:35] jdlrobson, wassup with your connection? :) [17:11:45] New review: Yuvipanda; "@Jdlrobson: On iOS the reference reveal animation is fine, but the toggle animation is not (since we..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [17:11:54] jdlrobson: you did. I forgot to mute mine [17:11:58] :) [17:12:50] jdlrobson: commented there [17:14:32] New review: Jdlrobson; "The toggle animation is done via transitions, the references via direct manipulation of css properti..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [17:14:38] YuviPanda: i've got to shoot off [17:15:56] New review: Yuvipanda; "Hmm, since we have no other css based transitions right now, it makes sense." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [17:16:09] jdlrobson: ok. Abandoning it for now. [17:16:51] Change abandoned: Yuvipanda; "Since there is only one CSS based transition now, having a generic class name is ok" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6614 [17:17:10] drdee_: ping [17:19:55] MaxSem awjr YuviPanda : how would you rate the video/audo during todays standup ? [17:20:25] on a scale of 1-10, 1 being unusable 10 being like standing in the room with you, 6 [17:20:44] was it the audio or the video that brought it down ? [17:20:50] both [17:21:10] tfinc: 3. Video was very choppy at all times and audio was intermittently choppy [17:21:11] i think if everyone who wasn't talking went on mute it would help [17:21:12] too much echo? too quiet ? choppy? what specifically [17:21:25] awjr k [17:21:27] I had bad signal from Jon and sometimes freezing video from Arthur [17:21:43] MaxSem: did the audio connection hold up throughout the hangout ? [17:21:50] was my video ok? [17:22:05] tfinc i heard all the remote peoploe just fine but had a harder time hearing you guys in the office - i think someone else's audio was taking over. i heard prelly better this time, but could barely hear phil [17:22:07] on our end everyone but jon looked fine. [17:22:13] yuvi of course was sans video [17:22:37] awjr gotcha. so the take away again is to go on mute if your not speaking [17:22:43] we've talked about that before [17:22:50] tfinc, no general interruptions for me [17:22:52] so i'll just remind everyone before we start [17:22:54] MaxSem great [17:23:18] tfinc yeah - is the microphone in the office something you guys can pass around or is it stuck to the table or whatever? [17:23:31] it's large [17:23:42] awjr moving that mic is not an option [17:23:53] let me show you what it looks like [17:23:56] i have a vague recollection of seeing it... [17:24:07] http://www.thx.com/files/2010/01/yeti-mike.jpg [17:24:10] i think i remember it looking clunky but also mounted way down low [17:24:18] oh yeah that's not for moving. [17:24:30] not unless it springs feet like R2D2 [17:24:35] lol [17:25:06] http://cdn.antiquiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/5r1jr.jpg [17:25:37] k. thanks for the feedback. i may test skype video next week so that we can compare. p [17:25:41] i dunno, i think i would've heard phil ok if someone else's audio hadn't bled in [17:25:47] tfinc good idea [17:26:17] awjr: I think that was mine. Forgot to mute that. Sorry [17:26:30] YuviPanda: no worries, i shoulda just mentioned it on the call [17:26:42] awjr i still can't believe how much the price of the crucial ssd dropped over the lastmonth .. 30% [17:26:50] tfinc so what is it now? [17:26:50] i guess the post flood worries are over [17:26:58] i should have just waited another week :p [17:27:13] $229 instead of $329 .. i bet it'll be sub $200 in a month [17:27:21] yeah dude that's awesome [17:27:42] no i'm waiting for when i can install SSD's into my NAs [17:27:44] oh wow a very bacon-oriented restaurant just opened up a few blocks from my house... [17:27:53] awjr: now your just showing off [17:27:56] lol [17:28:16] * YuviPanda notes that bacon is overrated [17:28:23] tfinc i just cant hide my love for bacon [17:28:35] YuviPanda: you've clearly never eaten bacon [17:28:54] awjr: I first ate bacon in India, and figured 'hmm, if it is worth raving about this much maybe it is better elsewhere' [17:29:06] * tfinc notes that YuviPanda is wrong [17:29:07] awjr: and then ate bacon in SF, and still nothing more [17:29:21] YuviPanda: someone probably tricked you into thinking it was bacon [17:29:31] it *looked* like bacon [17:30:01] nice twitter pickup for us passing 2billion page views [17:30:08] are you sure you know how it looks? [17:30:39] awjr: I think the awesomest piece of food I had in SF were large Chocolate Muffins from Starbucks and Chocolate cookies from Subway [17:30:51] YuviPanda: and the beer? [17:31:04] Oh the beer [17:31:04] beer? [17:31:10] I've not had beer since I got back. [17:31:24] Me and Arun actually bought a bottle, I tried drinking it but gave up after 2 sips [17:31:44] [17:32:08] YuviPanda: your going to love Berlin [17:32:21] Indeed I am :) [17:32:23] zomg [17:32:24] or hate (afterwards) [17:32:31] so far not liking the visa process though [17:32:37] MaxSem lolz ... yes [17:32:44] It's all manual. I need to print things and physically go wait in queues [17:32:48] sigh [17:32:50] MaxSem: +1 [17:32:59] Okay, quick poll: group at this conference has a 'social media' IDE. Would such an idea fly for team development? [17:33:18] Okay, quick poll: group at this conference has a 'social media' IDE. Would such an idea fly for team development? [17:33:19] yeah, eurobureaucracy is ridiculous [17:33:25] and wait times too [17:33:51] I'm slightly starting to panic about Visa issues, but it hasn't hit full blown bang-wall-on-head-panic yet [17:34:33] the first date I was able to schedule my visit to the German embassy to was May 21st [17:34:40] ... [17:34:52] I was told the wait times here were more around 7 days [17:35:10] let's hope I was told right :) [17:35:20] they're supposed to give you a Shengen visa within 3 business days [17:35:56] and even faster if you pay double the fare [17:35:59] maplebed i've decided to give linkinus another shot. one thing that bugged me before that i can't find out is how *not* to show every single irc server i connect to in the left pannel. is there a way to group all of those into one line or something grouped. its bizarre to see a connection per server for the same network [17:36:23] YuviPanda who do we blame here ... india or germany ? [17:36:27] I'm confused. [17:36:29] * maplebed walks over. [17:36:36] maplebed i'll come over post this meeting [17:37:01] tfinc_: I'm not sure yet. By the end of this I'll know who to blame. [17:37:04] oh, you're mtg. [17:37:25] tfinc_: the Bangalore one lets me book appointments online. The Chennai one doesn't. This sucks [17:37:52] tfinc_: And I was told that the Delhi consulate people are a bunch of asshats who'd make the Chennai ones look like angels. [17:37:55] so I never know [17:37:56] tfinc_: I think you want (in preferences) under 'miscallaneous', to set 'show incoming notices' to 'in the network's console'. [17:38:19] speaking of visas, when our hotels will be booked? [17:38:46] maplebed: excellent. that should it [17:40:36] maplebed i had been crawling through all the settings to find that [17:47:53] tfinc, you spoke about me moving to a next project... [17:51:15] MaxSem yes. so as you know we have two big projects moving right now 1) Wiki Loves Monuments 2) New Mobile Nav. Arthur is going to help Yuvi with #1 while you can pair with Jon on #2 ... I'll send out an email on where we are at [17:52:04] okay, I'll wait for it [17:55:36] tfinc: I'll note that the app release is blocked on the next MF / core deploy, and on iOS 4.x testing. [18:01:32] awjr: here is the photo upload page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MobileFrontend/Photo_upload [18:01:52] any comments about clarity or other issues appreciated [18:02:02] YuviPanda i can do the iOS 4.x testing today/weekend [18:02:05] philinje cool thanks i'll take a look in a bit [18:02:22] YuviPanda: are the MF / core deploy changes going out on monday ? [18:03:33] tfinc: they're in master, so I think they are [18:04:14] tfinc: today would be great. I don't think I'll be around much this weekend [18:04:15] k [18:04:24] (different city, so will have to do some running around) [18:08:42] tfinc: when do you think you'll be able to help out today? [18:09:27] hmm [18:09:35] in the afternoon here [18:09:39] i have a phone screen in 5min [18:10:38] tfinc: poke me when it is done. I'll be around for a couple more hours, at the least [18:11:05] YuviPanda, I've updated Labs [18:11:38] MaxSem: cool, I'll test it in a few mins. Thanks! [18:11:48] MaxSem: this would be going out with the Monday deployment? [18:11:54] yes [18:12:25] awesome [18:13:42] * YuviPanda pokes heatherw about https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35577 [18:14:17] Halloween yuvipanda [18:15:12] Bla, my phone has funny spelling [18:15:19] hello aharoni|mobile [18:16:33] Which nightly should I test? [18:17:26] aharoni|mobile: give me a second [18:17:41] aharoni|mobile: I'll make you one. [18:19:38] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6599 [18:19:40] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6599 [18:20:06] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6600 [18:20:07] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6600 [18:20:18] aharoni|mobile: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8768784/WikipediaActivity-debug.apk [18:20:28] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6605 [18:20:29] (this has a few more fixes than master) [18:20:30] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6605 [18:20:54] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6606 [18:20:56] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6606 [18:21:16] New review: preilly; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6607 [18:21:17] Change merged: preilly; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6607 [18:33:48] Yuvipanda, my phone is in hebrew [18:34:32] I go to the article "ASCII" in hewiki [18:34:56] Then to the same article in spanish [18:35:15] And Spanish appears right to left [18:36:05] aharoni|mobile: aaah, right. This makes sense. Let me fix it [18:36:24] aharoni|mobile: I was thinking of going to settings to change languages [18:39:42] tfinc_: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/visited.png [18:51:44] preilly: yo [18:51:55] drdee: pm [18:55:31] YuviPanda, we should use these tiles: http://maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit&utm_source=yt [18:57:06] * YuviPanda looks [18:57:11] haaah [18:57:19] I'm sure aude can make us those on labs :D [19:04:58] MaxSem: i'd still like an AoE II style map than this :P [19:13:02] yuvipanda: http://maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit&utm_source=yt <— is that you? [19:13:03] 8 bit tiles woudl be awesome [19:14:10] yuvipanda: sorry, I mean http://g.co/maps/8fzse [19:14:26] ROFL [19:14:51] YuviPanda: your going to have to start wearing hoods for the standups [19:14:55] cloaks even [19:16:37] ++ preilly [19:19:16] * YuviPanda looks [19:19:47] ah [19:20:26] preilly: tfinc_ saw what was apparently a terrifying figure before the my webcam turned dark. Might've been that :) [19:20:34] tfinc_: http://cloudhighclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Google-Maps-8-bit-Area-51-UFO.png [19:21:08] tfinc_: and http://cloudhighclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Google-Maps-8-bit-Monster.png [19:21:10] hmm, the more I zoom in the smaller it gets [19:23:12] aharoni|mobile: Try http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8768784/WikipediaActivity-debug.apk. Should be fixed for real [19:23:49] I expected the May 4th thread to devolve into a Star Trek vs Star Wars flame war. [19:24:02] * DissapointedPand is Dissapointed [19:25:41] aharoni|mobile: hi [19:26:54] * YuviPanda pokes aharoni|mobile  [19:26:56] * YuviPanda pokes aharoni  [19:34:26] YuviPanda: http://8bitcity.com/map?New%20York :) [19:38:16] hallo pchang [19:43:28] hallo yuvipanda, i'm back [19:43:42] with a more-or-less real computer [19:45:57] ah [19:46:24] aharoni: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8768784/WikipediaActivity-debug.apk should've fixed the RTL issues [19:49:21] yuvipanda: is it the same as the previous link? [19:50:38] aharoni: it always is :) [19:52:52] yuvipanda: ehh... i suppose that the link is the same, but is the file the same? :) [19:53:59] aharoni: it is not the same as the one I gave you the *first* time [19:54:04] aharoni: I made modifications after that [19:54:08] *first* time today [19:56:58] aharoni: hi, want to get your opinion on something [19:57:09] pchang: all years [19:57:15] ahem, ears [19:57:28] one sec [19:58:18] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_design/Wikipedia_navigation#Alternate_language_comps [19:58:40] you will see Hebrew next to English and Japanese [20:00:33] preilly, binasher: wanna chat on skype? [20:01:02] i'm in the middle of database maintenance [20:01:14] doh [20:01:19] binasher holler when you're done [20:01:20] aharoni: could you look specifically at Hebrew and see if it makes sense? [20:01:52] awjr: binasher isn't in the office today [20:02:01] preilly i know, me neither :p [20:03:07] binasher: when do you think that you'll be done? [20:03:46] pchang: that looks like the iphone Hebrew keyboard [20:04:02] yes [20:04:16] pchang: what's "comps"? [20:04:46] comps are just a more polished mock-up [20:05:32] is it singular or plural? [20:07:32] pchang: ^ [20:07:35] depends [20:07:55] each graphic is a comp [20:08:42] aharoni: thanks for closing the bugs :) [20:08:58] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Language_mockups5.jpg - the Hebrew image is fine wrt RTL, but the translation of "Nearby" is not the one from translatewiki.net. [20:09:24] ok [20:09:40] more concerned about placement of items on the screen, for instance the W button [20:09:58] it's ok [20:10:28] so the screen should slide from right to left, exact opposite of the English version? [20:10:43] [but if you ask about designs, + for "save" looks weird to me in any language.] [20:10:59] and yes, browser-style applications are usually flipped. [20:11:32] not just blindly mirrored - some elements must remain the same. [20:11:41] but the general orientation is flipped. [20:11:48] ah, that's what I was wondering about [20:11:57] what elements remain the same, usually? [20:12:24] aharoni: is Facebook flipped in hebrew on iPhone? [20:12:49] preilly: i almost never use an iphone, so i don't know. [20:13:02] or Android [20:13:31] yeah, or Android [20:13:39] tfinc_: made some edits to the roadmap [20:13:41] no, but probably because they didn't really bother to localize it. [20:13:48] it's supposed to be flipped. [20:13:54] the desktop version is flipped. [20:14:26] interesting, so it's ok if an app is not flipped? [20:14:56] if you ask me, not flipping the orientation is not as bad as not translating the strings. [20:15:05] ok [20:15:18] translating the strings is a must, but we do it well, and easily. [20:15:32] yes [20:15:50] not as easy to deploy distinct variations of the same app [20:16:09] pchang: what do you mean? [20:16:33] releasing multiple app variations simultaneously [20:16:57] i.e., totally different UIs, not just language differences [20:17:09] or am i wrong? [20:17:16] Mozilla appear to be doing it well with Firefox, but behind the scenes there is horrible mess. [20:17:19] pchang: RTL vs LTR shouldn't be *totally* different UIs. [20:17:25] Harder, ofcourse. But not different apps [20:17:28] or 'variants' [20:17:40] are we doing that now? [20:18:07] pchang: Sortof. We don't flip the UI, but the text flows in the right direction [20:18:29] desktop MediaWiki does a pretty good job at fixing most RTL issue automatically thanks to ResourceLLoader. [20:18:36] yes, ok. If we flipped the UI, that could be contained in the same app? [20:18:46] i mean same apk [20:18:47] pchang: yes [20:18:49] same apk [20:18:51] pchang: i think that it is already. [20:19:08] pchang: Not two different builds. Just one. [20:19:23] well, i assumed moving the UI elements like buttons and menus would be harder [20:19:41] pchang: Two apks is harder than one. [20:20:01] plus it is all CSS, so whatever solution ends up being used on the mobile web will probably work on the app too [20:20:06] oh, so if the W button and main menu were flipped, that would require two apps? [20:20:10] sorry, apps? [20:20:11] single APK FTW. [20:20:13] pchang: no. [20:20:15] sorry, apks [20:20:17] at no point would we require two apks [20:20:38] it already works quite will in the android app. [20:21:06] this is probably the worst RTL bug, and even that one is mostly cosmetic: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34201 [20:21:14] meaning, all UI elements are flipped? didn't realize that before [20:21:36] pchang: Text is flipped. UI elements are not. [20:21:54] pchang: the title bar remains the same. [20:22:09] pchang: but if we wanted to support it, it is very much doable (flip the entire UI) [20:22:18] pchang: with a few CSS changes [20:22:21] ok thanks [20:22:39] aharoni: what do you think, is that necessary? [20:23:07] pchang: flipping the search bar is medium priority. [20:23:23] fixing the menu alignment is higher priority. [20:23:25] aharoni: that bug should be fixable once aude gets us our tile server [20:23:34] oh! [20:23:37] aharoni: menu alignment? [20:23:54] aharoni: the more being on the wrong side? [20:23:59] i was so confused. [20:24:11] ok, again: [20:24:32] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34201 is actually a very nasty bug, and it's not just cosmetic, [20:24:51] but as you say, it's an OpenStreetMap thing. [20:25:26] aharoni: shat did you mean by menu alignment? [20:25:26] now this is the menu alignment bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34168 [20:25:36] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34168 [20:25:58] there are three problems there. the first one is fixed already. [20:26:37] basically, here's a tracking bug for RTL: 34166 [20:26:41] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34166 [20:26:42] ah, interesting [20:27:23] thanks [20:28:46] back to the earlier point: what usually remains the same? [20:30:33] well, most importantly - anything that definitely remains in English. [20:31:12] For example, if for some reason you want to have the copyright string in English and the rest in Arabic, you'll have to say explicitly that the English string is LTR. [20:31:37] aharoni: in doing our maps, getting the language stuff working well is super important [20:31:53] aude: i couldn't agree more, of course. [20:32:06] * yuvipanda wonders how that'll work for Indic languages [20:32:06] * aude is not sure about the other RTL bugs in the app but agrees they are critical [20:32:36] the one with the maps is the most critical, because it seriously breaks the text. [20:32:46] aharoni: it's super annoying! [20:32:51] couldn't agree more [20:32:54] * yuvipanda tries to fix the other ones asap [20:33:07] aude: wonder if you could look at this: http://jonrobson.me.uk/wikipedia/experiments/nav/demo.html [20:33:21] aude: for OSM in general and not just for RTL, i've been wondering for a while about translations of place names. [20:33:38] aharoni: osm doesn't do a great job with that yet [20:33:42] or it's inconsistent [20:34:22] that's an area where i think wikimedia folks can help and osm will benefit too [20:35:07] aude: a teeny-weeny tip of the iceberg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_exonyms_for_German_toponyms [20:35:42] theoretically, any place name could be translated to any language. making the infrastructure for that can be an exciting thing :) [20:35:57] * yuvipanda wonders how place name translation would work [20:36:11] pchang: looks better [20:36:12] A lot of places in India have completely different names that are totally unrelated in different languages [20:36:12] aharoni: aude there was a tool sometime back which took interwiki links and updated osm [20:36:20] aude: thanks [20:36:39] srikanthlogic: cool [20:36:41] we are also considering relatively flat buttons, one sec [20:37:04] aude: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WikedKentaur/OSM-Wikipedia_place_name_tool [20:37:13] * aude is biased but thinks having a way to link wikidata + osm will be very helpful [20:38:02] but of course, the big question is licensing of data, and not yet decided which license wikidata will use & compatability with ODBL [20:38:33] wikidata, theoretically, should be good. [20:38:36] aude: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Article-action-menu-5.png [20:39:43] pchang: i like it [20:39:51] more obvious what the buttons do [20:40:31] you like the flat look? [20:43:46] pchang: not a big preference but like how the button to the right of the search bar is done now [20:43:58] with the arrow icon [20:44:54] i see, thanks [20:44:59] pchang: and back again to your question of what should and should not be flipped: [20:45:14] anything that has text definitely must be flipped. [20:46:02] most things that have any sense of direction, like arrows, triangles, etc. should usually be flipped, but if in doubt just ask me. [20:46:17] ok, but if Wikipedia were spelled out instead of being a W, it would definitely need to be on the right [20:46:19] progress bars - sometimes flipped, sometimes not. i say - don't flip. [20:46:36] yes. [20:46:42] as it is, the W button could be on the left [20:46:50] awjr: preilly : yo. what did you guys want to talk about? [20:47:14] of course, there are important exceptions... for example, some media players are flipped, but it's quite ridiculous [20:47:35] pchang: at least for me, the "w" is very recognizable [20:47:42] so if you implement a mobile player for media in commons, for example, just make it left-to-right and everybody will be happy. [20:47:45] but not sure about general users [20:48:01] aharoni: thanks for the explanation [20:48:20] aude: was wondering about the ins and out of RTL, we'll keep the W [20:48:21] the [W] is *probably* recognizable for people who speak a lot of languages... but don't count on that 100%. [20:48:21] +1 on the media player :) [20:48:34] aharoni: that's my thought [20:48:36] preilly: question about ssl / nginx / android app: should in the server logs for ssl traffic the ip address of the client appear or the address of the datacenter (amsterdam / tampa)? [20:48:37] aude: thanks for your comments on the UI [20:48:59] for arabic, the icon might be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waw_(letter) [20:49:07] and then it's complicated [20:49:13] on my android the progress bar of the media player (the location in the song) goes right-to-left, but the play button [>] is left-to-right... it's horrible. [20:49:33] aharoni: yuk [20:51:11] interesting [20:54:10] * yuvipanda should at some point try using software in his native language [20:55:29] yuvipanda: just do it right now. chop-chop. which OS, Linux? [20:55:41] yuvipanda: isn't that english for ou [20:55:42] * tfinc_ ducks [20:58:41] tfinc_: mostly :D [20:58:48] aharoni: I tried doing that with Ubuntu a while back. [20:58:57] aharoni: basic tasks became unusably long for me. [20:59:10] aharoni: my reading speed in tamil is about 1/100th of English [20:59:19] yuvipanda: :( [20:59:19] aharoni: I literally have to read character by character. [20:59:40] my writing skills are just as bad - as srikanthlogic would attest to [21:00:25] It was at the Pune hackathon where I made a mistake in writing my own name in Tamil :D :( [21:00:37] so, in ways, my English skills are waaaay farther along than my tamil ones [21:00:46] I also know a *lot* of people for whom this is true [21:00:52] yuvipanda: interesting [21:01:32] * aude not surprised though and sees why many of the indic language wikipedias are smallish [21:02:58] aude: I was also told about language usage conventions on local language wikis and how they cause problems. [21:03:34] aude: I find reading any tawiki page, even if it is about some technical issue, maddenlingly slow - I usually just ask srikanthlogic to 'translate'. [21:04:17] yuvipanda: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all.html ... Tamil Firefox is in Beta. [21:04:20] and many of the people involved in the discussions themselves are more comfortable/faster in English than Tamil... [21:04:24] download it right now. [21:04:54] it's Firefox, after all, so you'll guess which buttons does what, but you'll get the chance to read things. [21:05:04] like button and menu label. [21:05:35] aharoni: true. [21:05:41] aharoni: am downloading it, let's see how it goes :) [21:05:48] hmm, I should actually look for the Aurora builds [21:05:52] yuvipanda: interesting [21:07:01] yuvipanda: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all-aurora.html , in case you haven't found it already [21:07:24] on behalf of the Mozilla community i thank you for testing this. [21:07:25] yeah, just did [21:07:52] aharoni: I doubt how useful I'd be. Considering that I don't know for the most part which are the correct words [21:08:33] yuvipanda: all the more - report it to the localizers. [21:09:17] either they will consider using an easier word, or they'll teach you why they had good reasons to choose that one. [21:10:49] hmm, true. It's also probably a much easier way than trying to read actual text. [21:10:57] thanks aharoni! [21:12:25] good night [21:22:59] pchang: Next beta would probably be on Monday, so https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36017 [21:23:03] would be nice :) [21:23:12] I'm guessing it'll be something very simple [21:25:20] awjr: how is your time looking to talk wlm on monday? [21:25:57] tfinc_ good question - i assume i'll be spending time on deployment stuff in the afternoon, so morning is probably best [21:27:44] k [21:28:01] awjr: i want to get you caught up to speed so that we can see what backend work needs to get done [21:28:11] tfinc_ sounds great [21:28:14] tfinc_: do we have WLM designs somewhere? [21:28:14] so far its been brion hacking away and yuvipanda eagerly trying to finish the beta so that he can switch to wlm [21:28:20] a featureset, etc - for what we're going to be doing? [21:28:36] yuvipanda: philinje has rough mockups of the flow [21:28:55] i wanted to walk through them with a backend engineer to see what/if anything we have to add storage/api/etc wise [21:29:10] so that we can catch it early [21:29:19] cool [21:29:29] we can anticipate finalized mockups witin the next week [21:29:38] which fits nicely with the beta period [21:29:43] yuvipanda: whats our market release day? [21:31:25] tfinc: Depends on what level of iOS 4.x testing I could get. [21:31:51] tfinc: beta on Google play goes out on Monday - Jon couldn't find time today to merge in stuff, so hopefully he'll be able to do that monday [21:33:01] tfinc: the only 'known issue' that is actively blocking is scrolling-fuckedup-on-iOS-4.x again. [21:33:31] k, i'll get to iOS4.x on the weekend. it doesn't look likely today [21:33:56] okay. I'll be able to give more accurate numbers after that. [21:34:00] k [21:34:09] tfinc: just wondering - do we *have* to release on same day on android and iOS? [21:34:17] yuvipanda: no [21:34:30] good, then we could release much earlier on android [21:34:32] but we want to be done with the work near the same date [21:34:44] we need this wrapped up so that work on wlm can pickup [21:34:58] hmm, I guess we can make this decision once we have some iOS 4.x testing [21:39:48] which is your way of saying i need to get off my ass and test or get the phone faster to you ;) [21:40:00] :D [21:40:04] that's one way of looking at it :) [21:42:16] tfinc: also, testing from master is going to be broken since there are a lot of pull reqs that need merging. [21:42:32] Jon's been pretty stretched over the past week [21:50:39] New patchset: MaxSem; "Preparations for moving classes into core" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6635 [21:51:58] MaxSem: just to confirm - after Monday's deploy, the action=mobileview for Main Page will be working, but Image page handling will only be sortof-half-working? [21:52:02] (because it depends on core changes)? [21:53:15] * yuvipanda pokes pchang about https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36017 again [21:53:50] ok, what's the deadline? [21:54:04] yuvipanda, no, everything will work [21:54:31] as I said, I decided not to depend on core [21:55:18] pchang: I'd say Monday afternoon. [21:55:31] yuvipanda, have you tried it on labs? [21:55:34] MaxSem: ah, right. I thought it was simply backwards compatible -> 'won't break, but won't get new functionality' [21:55:41] MaxSem: no, fixing a few other bugs. Will do that tomorrow [21:56:32] yuvipanda: ok [21:56:46] philinje: thanks :) [21:57:48] alright, gnite everyone :) [21:58:39] tfinc: I'm not sure how much I'll be available over the weekend in SF time. Will shoot you a testable build tomorrow though, and will respond to emails. [21:59:08] * yuvipanda goes to sleep [23:22:49] New review: awjrichards; "(no comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6635 [23:22:51] Change merged: awjrichards; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/6635