[00:01:25] k [06:22:22] anyone about? [15:01:49] preilly: Updated debs built. The PPA's at https://launchpad.net/~praekeltfoundation/+archive/ppa/+packages [15:02:29] I've tested on a local Precise VM, and everything seems happy. [15:03:42] (The two packages that needed updating are still building in Launchpad, but that should be done soon.) [16:56:04] jdlrobson: are we doing the standup [16:57:08] s [17:00:30] Are we doing the stand-in? [17:00:35] Guest36022: not sure [17:00:41] s/stand-in/stand-up/? [17:00:42] without tfinc? [17:00:43] no sign of tfinc [17:00:55] i just got a txt from tfinc saying that he's experiencing muni delays [17:01:03] also i dont see patrick here yet [17:01:10] ^^^ [17:01:11] or phil [17:01:14] yeah [17:01:26] let's hold off for a bit and see if they show up soon [17:01:52] Guest36022, what's up with your nick? [17:03:27] let's give everyone two more minutes to arrive - phil just walked in [17:07:15] MAXSEM: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c980e1e3a4bc607aae644d565022df9f9dc0d559?authuser=1&hl=en-US [17:07:21] MaxSem ^ [17:07:25] THANK YOU [17:07:28] jdlrobson philinje, let's go ahead and get started [17:07:32] stupid capslock :p [17:07:33] :P [17:14:06] jdlrobson, cahn you fix https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/16199/ ? [17:14:42] yes [17:40:51] awjr, we've got reports about http://wikimania2013.m.wikimedia.org/ not being accessible [17:41:12] MaxSem, I get a dns error [17:41:37] yeah [17:41:54] not even dig @ns0.wikimedia.org wikimania2013.m.wikimedia.org resolves it [17:41:54] but apparently the redirection happens [17:51:07] wouldn't it be great if we didn't need an m. [17:51:38] its not working because it doesn't exist [17:52:04] awjr: ops will have to add a new step to their new subdomain registration to always add an m. [17:52:11] when they add a new sub domain [17:52:20] once ops lets us remove the m. this becomes easy again [18:06:00] MaxSem: does the api allow you to easily see if a user is watching a page? [18:06:17] current user? [18:06:28] yep [18:07:29] Api sandbox doesn't make it obvious if I can.. (currently thinking around pages for specific parts of the api) [18:09:17] prop=info [18:12:06] jdlrobson, if a user, or the current user? [18:12:18] if logged in as a user [18:12:25] so I'm trying API Sandbox and doing /w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&format=json&intoken=watch&titles=Foo%20Fighters [18:12:29] but I don't watch Foo Fighters [18:12:33] yet it's in the response [18:13:01] adding inprop=watched has no effect.. [18:13:20] you're asking for Foo_Fighters info [18:14:03] try http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&list=watchlist [18:14:49] but that gives me the whole list [18:15:09] (Also the api doesn't expose this.. (if it does it's not clear)) [18:15:17] Api -> ApiSandbox [18:17:36] I have not tried ApiSandbox [18:18:30] I don't think you can filter to just the watchlist entries for those titles [18:18:40] although it's easy to do that locally [18:20:09] awjr, we have a box - yay! [18:20:49] MaxSem: i talked to ct this morning and woudln't leave till he moved it forward :D [18:20:59] your welcoome :D [18:21:53] :) [18:22:50] o_0 [18:23:14] * MaxSem prepares a list of opsy bugs for tfinc... [18:23:37] you've heard me say this a lot. if you are blocked on anything (especially ops) you let me know and i'll do my best to unblock it [18:23:41] as i did with this [18:23:53] it's not blocking [18:24:24] but seriously, the bug about bogus certs on mobile domains is sooo old [18:25:20] yes it was blocking. if we didn't get hardware we couldn't launch the app. we were blocked on getting it [18:25:23] i'm glad we finally have it [18:25:58] we should have been at this point a while ago [18:26:42] i meant the cert nug [18:26:51] s/nug/bug/ [18:34:55] MaxSem: robs questions are easy. shoot him a response quick so we can keep the ball moving [18:36:19] already writing a reply [18:36:25] thanks [18:41:08] * jeremyb waves [18:41:26] who can make wikimania2013.m.wikimedia.org work? currently NXDOMAIN. the localteam there has asked about it [18:42:10] where? [18:42:41] Danny_B|backup: ? [18:42:57] they asked [18:43:16] 17:11 UTC, #-tech [18:43:33] so 3.5 hrs back [18:43:40] err [18:43:43] 1.5 hrs* [18:45:07] wow jslint now tells you off for using TODO comments… preachy [18:48:10] jdlrobson, are by by incidence working on APISB? [18:48:33] are by by incidence? [18:48:56] *you by incidence [18:49:10] jdlrobson: who do i bug about that mobile domain? tomasz? ops? [18:49:41] yes. I'm just exploring it and seeing if I was an api developer how I might experience it - collecting ideas for interfaces/wizards/exercises [18:49:55] jeremyb: try awjr [18:50:02] I think he enabled the other sites [18:50:04] hi awjr! [18:50:13] he might be a bit preoccupied now though [18:50:26] jdlrobson: time will tell! [18:50:32] can always mail him if necessary [18:50:37] jdlrobson: but thanks [18:50:40] he'll be back later [18:52:06] jdlrobson, I'm adding jQuery call examples [18:53:26] MaxSem: I was thinking of doing Special:APISandbox/WatchList which would be a page taking you through some basics of dealing with watch lists [18:53:34] and then extending this for other common tasks [18:53:54] mmm [18:54:00] why watchlist? [18:54:02] but the fact I can't check the watch list status of a certain page worries me [18:54:10] it just seemed like a simple example that covers logging in [18:54:14] getting tokens [18:54:29] checking the status of whether a page is watched or not [18:54:31] then watching it [18:54:33] you can [18:54:47] i got the feeling from above I couldn't [18:54:49] hence v [18:54:50] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38765 [18:54:51] I told you about prop=info [18:55:02] yeh but I said that doesn't work [18:55:16] jdlrobson: so I'm trying API Sandbox and doing /w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&format=json&intoken=watch&titles=Foo%20Fighters [18:55:17] [11:12am] jdlrobson: but I don't watch Foo Fighters [18:55:17] [11:12am] jdlrobson: yet it's in the response [18:55:56] jdlrobson: adding inprop=watched has no effect.. [18:57:31] MaxSem: ^ [18:57:34] no, it works [18:57:53] if it's watched, you'll get watched="" [18:58:11] otherwise, this attribute will simply be absent [18:58:35] (the traditional API's awkward boolean representation) [18:58:50] ahh ok [18:58:52] that's very weird [18:58:59] I see Roan has replied [18:59:56] jeremyb: ops [19:00:09] jdlrobson, unfortunately, when it all started API was designed with XML in mind [19:00:19] jeremyb: they need to create a m. subdomain for wikimania2013 [19:00:22] ohhh, didn't realize you were the same person [19:00:31] tfinc: sure. then what though? [19:00:36] tfinc: needs config? [19:00:49] thus the scary '*': foo in JSON output and other crappiness [19:00:49] just create the record and configure a main page [19:00:54] every thing else is magic [19:01:08] API's then lead dev, Yurik, was an enterprisey developer:) [19:02:03] tfinc: configure a main page? [19:02:29] jeremyb: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects/Mobile_Gateway#How_do_I_format_a_mobile_homepage.3F [19:03:02] k [19:03:09] MaxSem: :) [19:03:11] APIv2! [19:04:00] versioned API, meh [19:04:07] Ugh. Bad autogenerated dependency name in the vumi-wikipedia deb. [19:04:12] * tfinc loves versioned apis [19:04:18] it makes life so much easier [19:04:30] Fixed it, but America's awake now and Launchpad will be even slower. :-/ [19:37:15] eclipse forgot how to do android. [19:37:20] i'm..... so pleased with it [19:37:53] let's try reinstalling the android tools [19:48:06] brion: we have noms. come join us! [19:48:22] preilly: jdlrobson same to you guys [19:49:35] tfinc: I'm still busy zero'ing [19:50:15] if you can take a food break. you can work in here [20:30:01] MaxSem we're gonna get started in a just a minute - we're busy watching the queen of england parachute into the olympic ceremonies... [20:32:36] MaxSem: ok [20:32:46] yes? [20:33:12] MaxSem: is there a number that we can call you in on today? [20:34:01] phone call for the duration of this training would be overkill, skype? [20:35:01] there's only a cellphone around, and the signal level is not that great for listening a serious lecture [20:35:03] MaxSem we need to route the audio over the regular phone line - can you use skype to call one of the conference lines at the office? [20:35:19] (this is in order to use the better mic set-up) [20:36:40] okay, which one? [20:36:54] MaxSem 2007 [20:37:03] calling... [20:38:47] MaxSem if you have any issues with the audio just let me know [20:39:06] MaxSem: http://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org [20:41:25] and were looking at https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/wlm_android_app [20:42:40] tfinc: can you make an acct for me too? [20:43:11] brion_ i can take care of it [20:43:14] tx [20:43:51] brion_ : onit [20:44:04] tfinc: i already did it [20:44:26] brion_: username/pass in pm [20:44:32] got it [20:45:03] brion: and i've just added you to the project [20:45:09] \o/ [20:49:28] I can't hear anyone but Andy [20:50:48] MaxSem: can you hear phil now [20:50:49] ? [20:50:55] now i do [20:50:59] cool [20:52:17] patrick asked how important it is to capture personas that map to edge cases [20:53:03] patrick's giving an example - a persona who has a phone and doesn't have JS enabled, etc - how important is that? [20:58:06] MaxSem: let me know if at any point you want to add video [20:58:45] tfinc, you mean if I want to see the screen? [20:59:03] MaxSem phil is writing on the whiteboard right now [20:59:23] yesterday's cam was useless in that regard [20:59:32] the screen or phil drawing on the whiteboard [20:59:50] if it was useless then lets not do it [20:59:50] seeing what's on the whiteboars [21:01:36] muted video is here https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b3bbba936526b05b99f0b589a3c4c13aa6f4923?authuser=1&hl=en ... let me know if its worth it [21:03:28] MaxSem: is the video working for you? [21:03:32] hmm, it gives you an idea what's going on [21:03:44] ok, better than nothing? [21:03:45] the vide is smaller than yesterday [21:04:37] MaxSem what do you mean? [21:05:06] pic size is much less [21:05:16] dimensions [21:05:43] you mean of the projection screen? [21:05:52] we can probably move tomasz's laptop closer which might make it more visible [21:06:01] no, video size in hangout window [21:06:16] can you switch to full screen? [21:06:19] moving the laptop isn't going to help [21:06:27] ok sorry i misunderstood [21:06:51] apparently I can't [21:06:54] :( [21:07:47] awjr, now there's an echo [21:07:53] after you connected [21:08:16] ok just disconnected - i see what you mean though, there doesn't seem to b ea way to make the image bigger [21:08:23] i thought there was... [21:13:06] overall, this lecture is useless for me:( combining the lack of a usable video and audio quality (which is better than yesterday but still unimpressive), I'm unable to follow [21:14:01] MaxSem it's actually pretty quiet in here right now [21:14:15] as Andy is quietly talking through setting a few things up in mingle [21:14:19] webex during the metrics meetings was soo much better [21:14:30] video's gone [21:14:33] they use a proper video camera for metrics which helps i think [21:14:40] yes, without screen sharing i don't think this is ever going to work [21:14:57] i cut the video as awjr told me it was useless [21:15:15] as long as audio is setup well at the metrics meetings, webex works really nicely, i think [21:15:39] they've iterated to find what setup works for the large collab space with a lot of help [21:15:45] were not at all there in the small conference rooms [21:16:16] MaxSem before i head back to Tucson next week i'm going to try and get a converstation started about improving facilities for remote participation in the conference rooms [21:16:32] there's also the problem of mic --> phone line --> skype gateway transitions [21:16:41] for sure [21:16:58] awjr, thanks [21:17:05] np [21:17:25] right now Andy is still just trying to get a few things set up in our mingle instance [21:17:33] if it's helpful i'll try to keep narrating [21:18:31] looks like I'll have to take a crash course myself when and if we start using it:] [21:18:58] in my experiene the thing with mingle that is hard is getting it set up the way you want - once a project is well configured, it's pretty easy to use [21:20:18] phil is going through the process of creating a new card for an 'epic' story [21:20:42] the epic we're using is 'upload', which has a bunch of associated features like 'nearby' [21:21:53] phil's going to add a 'story' for admin zone filtering [21:22:02] and now he's adding one for 'license info' [21:22:28] click on the 'iteration planning' tab in mingle [21:22:36] so what will today's trining consist of - mingle use? [21:23:18] partly, but i think also how to write the stories and what the workflow for a development iteration will look like [21:23:40] i assume we'll also be covering specific responsibilities for people on the team, since that has kept coming up since weds [21:27:55] MaxSem: i'm not convinced this is useful to you [21:27:58] MaxSem: if this is useless for you (i imagine it is) we can get you back on the phone when we stop doing this stuff in mingle [21:28:10] ok [21:51:43] awjr: https://rt.wikimedia.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=3221 woot! [21:52:12] tfinc: i was just fixing the puppet conf to get the manifest on wlm.wikimedia.org automagically :) [21:52:25] great [22:03:38] awjr: automagic is my favorite kind of magic [22:03:57] tfinc automating magic is what we do [22:04:23] an op will apparently need to run puppet manually for the first time [22:06:27] if we get it soon enough today then they can tackle it quick [22:08:51] tfinc, we still need security clearance from Chris before deploying [22:11:34] have we heard anything from him today? [22:11:35] is he on irc / [22:11:36] ? [22:13:42] we heard that he started looking at it [22:14:14] Jdlrobson; "See follow up commit https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/16849/" [mediawiki/extensions/ApiSandbox] (master) C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/16199 [22:14:17] ^ MaxSem [22:16:45] tfinc yeah chris mailed us with a few more questions, which max responded to a little bit ago [22:17:00] he as just looking for some additional context [22:19:16] jdlrobson, commented. In brief words, I did property deletion from objects for a reason:P [22:20:10] this is where unit tests would come in handy [22:20:18] it's hard to understand what you are trying to achieve [22:22:02] I'm trying to fix a bug [22:37:36] jdlrobson, is it possible to pass data to $ajax() as two objects, one for GET parameters and another to POST, as opposed to string and object, respectively? [22:41:13] I'm confused... [22:42:10] string and object MaxSem ? [22:42:14] currently, you can do $.ajax( 'http://...', {data: {foo: bar} } ) [22:42:50] ... [22:42:56] but that means that if method is POST, all parameters go into POST data which is bad [22:43:10] why is that bad [22:43:29] because POST data doesn't get logged [22:43:50] so if there's some problematic API request you can't tell what it does [22:44:04] you could always do if(type === 'post') { options.data = data; } $.ajax(options); [22:44:37] you can't log it elsewhere? e.g. php_error log ? [22:45:07] so in APISB I'm trying to promote a healthy attitude by always supplying format and action in GET [22:45:42] btw on a side note why can't i specify dataType and ignore format? [22:46:21] the question is if there's a more readable way other than append em to the URL manually [22:46:55] in code? [22:47:34] I specify dataType: 'text' to prevent $.ajax() from parsing the returned data [22:47:41] yes [22:47:59] $.param( { foo: 'bar' } ) [22:48:03] ?brb [22:52:39] whee [22:52:41] thanks [23:08:02] MaxSem: can you dial back in to 2007? [23:09:55] im in [23:10:11] MaxSem cool are you hearing ok? [23:10:26] mmm [23:10:57] any better? [23:10:59] MaxSem: is it better now? [23:11:14] so far I hear it ok [23:11:27] MaxSem: were talking about different kinds of meetings [23:11:32] right now were on hte iteration planning meeting [23:12:59] I'm having sound interruptions [23:13:35] MaxSem: any better now ? [23:13:44] no [23:14:58] is it too quiet, in and out, something else [23:15:05] the mic is exactly where it was before [23:15:59] no, sound simply disappears for fractions of seconds [23:17:02] blech i wonder if it's a network issue [23:17:24] or the mic is too directional [23:17:27] network previously behaved fine [23:17:42] sounds like a contact issue [23:18:38] gets worse [23:18:57] maybe mic batter is dying [23:19:04] *battery [23:19:08] we can try a different mic [23:20:08] better? [23:20:40] MaxSem ^ [23:20:48] yes