[17:58:22] New patchset: JGonera; "(bug 41875) Language variants" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37857 [17:59:10] New review: JGonera; "This is work in progress. The UI will be changed, now it shows variants together with languages." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37857 [17:59:37] brion: stand up! [18:06:35] * yuvipanda looks around [18:06:53] * brion gives yuvipanda a cookie [18:07:06] * yuvipanda gives brion a codl [18:07:06] *cold [18:07:12] achoo! [18:15:40] jcmish: list shared [18:16:01] jcmish: i'm eager to prune this list before the the year is out [18:16:20] as apple only gives you back slots yearly [18:26:34] does anyone have a bug for me before I return to OSM? [18:26:44] MaxSem look at the story wall [18:29:03] New review: Jdlrobson; "This smells a bit like premature optimisation?" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 0 C: -1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37163 [18:30:41] * yuvipanda pokes tfinc  [18:30:46] yuvipanda: greetings [18:30:50] yuvipanda: ready to chat ? [18:30:59] tfinc: yup! [18:31:03] PM? [18:59:33] New review: awjrichards; "I disagree that it's premature optimisation - whenever I find myself in a situation where I need to ..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 0 C: 0; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37163 [19:02:30] Maryana: i'm hangin' out all by mysel [19:02:31] f [19:02:40] hehe, sorry, we had squatters in our meeting room [19:02:43] setting up projector now [19:02:46] k :) [19:04:07] brion jcmish jgonera awjr: please can we get this merged before tomorrows deployment - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37322/ [19:22:45] jdlrobson, so what you don't like in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37323/ ? [19:31:39] yuvipanda: are you all caught up learning about WAP and how caching is evil ? [19:32:35] MaxSem: add a FIXME note saying that it should be removed and it's only there to notify api users in mean time [19:32:39] Maryana: video/audio is frozen [19:32:54] Maryana: but there is also card #265 [19:32:59] jdlrobson ^ [19:33:04] awjr: yup [19:33:15] jdlrobson, @todo: Remove in March 2013 [19:33:41] ah i see [19:33:57] ok 1 last worry - if the page 404s with a query string parameter will that stop it being indexed by search engines? [19:34:30] i think Maryana's wifi has gone weird [19:34:59] Maryana, jdlrobson: i'll let you guys finish up without me. please just make sure chagnes are reflected in the mingle cards - and if there are any significant changes, it might be worth creating new cards to deal with them for the next sprint(s) [19:35:08] ok awjr [19:36:34] jdlrobson, 404s aren't indexed. and search engines have nowhere to know about hese URLs [19:36:45] MaxSem: exactly… so if a page 200 and 404s [19:37:26] ...then it has 2 different URLs one of which is indexed while another is not [19:44:52] awjr: you order an RPi yet ? [19:45:19] tfinc: and when do you think we'll start spec'in out work with the language team? [19:45:19] tfinc i added to my list for santa claus [19:45:38] brion has already spec'd our the first pass [19:45:41] he's the lead on that [19:45:59] tfinc: WAP is awesome, Mobile Carriers are super-interested in delivering 'optimum user experiences' and Caching is evil because it kills advertisements [19:46:05] things I learnt for day before yesterday [19:46:23] awjr: i wouldn't give raspbmc to my mother but its enough for me tinker with and be very happy [19:46:32] awjr: useful enough for me to want to contribute to the project to make it better [19:46:38] tfinc yeah, it sounds perfect for me :) [19:46:43] for instance its crashing when going into screen saver mode [19:46:47] oops [19:46:47] coming Friday, I learn about 'Total Quality Management'. I think they grade me in units of 'number of times the word synergy is used per page' [19:46:51] not the RPi but xbmc on it [19:47:17] tfinc do you have a window manager installed as well or are you just using xbmc? [19:47:21] awjr: and you saw my note that it does slow down if you have a video playing and then you go crazy in the menu [19:47:38] awjr: just xbmc on that sd card [19:47:42] ah ok [19:47:46] yeah i saw your comment about that [19:47:49] you have the cli over ssh over course [19:48:15] tfinc yeah, i'd like to set it up for web browsing as well so i expect to set up a window manager [19:48:17] now if only i could get the case i want without ordering if with inter national shipping [19:48:24] stupid uk having the best case [19:48:35] awjr: they must have an add on for that [19:48:35] is Reedy coming back to the office any time soon? [19:48:42] awjr: he's not. i asked him [19:48:51] jdlrobson is … but i'm impatient [19:48:59] tfinc i looked a little bit over the weekend, but to use a web browser you've got to run a window manager [19:49:11] awjr: what i have yet to successful do is to let xbmc be my emulator front end [19:49:15] but it can do it [19:49:16] tfinc: know if brion's put them up somewhere? I don't see him [19:49:31] yuvipanda: ask him when he gets in [19:49:38] alright! [19:50:00] awjr: http://lifehacker.com/5523672/turn-your-xbmc-media-center-into-a-video-game-console [19:50:43] tfinc my receiver already talks to my dlna devices so i dont have a huge use for xbmc (other than airplay support which would be cool), but i want smoething to be able to easily access arbitrary net content [19:51:09] that said though, xbmc is a much nicer interface for my dlna devices than my receiver [19:51:20] i despise the interface that almost ever dlna client uses [19:51:28] file folders.. really… who uses those [19:51:39] i only have experience with my receiver - it is a nightmare. sarah refuses to use it and it makes me cry [19:51:44] its archaic and dumb when you don't have a mouse and keyboard for constant use [19:51:48] yup [19:52:05] thus its the xvmc/plex interface that i like [19:52:32] why does OSX keep typo correcting xbmc to xvmc ? [19:52:34] makes no sense [19:54:46] yeah plex is nice; although i've found it's dlna feature to be flaky (or maybe it's my receiver) [19:55:10] i use minidlna running from my shivaplug and have been very happy with it, but no gui [19:57:11] awjr: what's minidlna like ? [19:57:23] tfinc headless [19:57:26] yuvipanda: there is a brion in now [19:57:32] tfinc very bare bones, but very stable [19:57:36] awjr: so is it simple a dlna server ? [19:57:36] ah [19:57:39] tfinc yeah [19:57:40] * yuvipanda pokes a brion  [19:57:44] oy [19:57:52] tfinc but you don't get fancy ui or web interface like with plex [19:57:54] this is rather cool http://parsoid.wmflabs.org:8001/ [19:58:03] awjr: then it is dead to me [19:58:08] lol [19:58:16] tfinc you know i hate gui [19:58:19] brion: tfinc tells me you have a first cut of what we're gonna work on with th elanguage team [19:59:04] awjr: i want something that tina can use as well [19:59:13] remind me? [19:59:24] tfinc there are web frontends you can use with minidlna but i dont see the point atm since the only client using it is my receiver [19:59:24] awjr: and me after having a couple whiskeys [19:59:28] lol [19:59:39] and my receiver has its own abysmal interface [19:59:58] xbmc would be a big improvement [20:00:00] effectively if my access to my own media is worse then me watching netflix on my smart tv then i will not use it [20:00:05] because it'll waste my time [20:00:19] brion: i don't know, so am asking you :) [20:00:33] the netflix apps on those devices are awful [20:00:41] brion: yuvipanda wanted a debrief of how we are going to structure our language related work jan - march [20:00:51] you were our tech lead in attendance and were curating that work as we had talked in the past [20:01:02] whats the rough cut of how you'd like to organize it? [20:01:30] * yuvipanda notes that if anyone thinks of watching the movie 'philadelphia', please do not. [20:01:50] hi jcmish do you have a few minutes to poke something over the next little while? [20:02:01] this is what notes are for. :) lemme search [20:03:57] jdlrobson, so is that change fine by you? [20:04:19] * yuvipanda notes that we talked about doing Android Native IMEs [20:05:03] maybe it's hiding on meta [20:05:47] sorry MaxSem Maryana and Howie keep distracting me [20:06:24] New review: Jdlrobson; "Max reassures me. I'm happy now." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 1; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37323 [20:07:07] yuvipanda: anyway I forget where the notes got to, but …. android IME we def want [20:07:09] thanks! [20:07:10] :) [20:07:17] yuvipanda: were you thinking of doing a standalone imd for iOS too? [20:07:35] brion: we were, so I did it last week :P yuvi.in/indic-typing/index.html [20:07:40] yay [20:08:15] brion: but yeah - we figured we couldn't really do a 'native' one for iOS, so this was our best shot (this works offline too, can be made into an app) [20:08:24] and go proper IME on android [20:08:31] nice [20:08:43] i like the sidebar selector [20:09:04] looks a little funky in firefox but that's not its target :) [20:09:30] brion: it looks funky in android too [20:09:36] brion: works fine on iOS :) [20:09:44] very limited target, really [20:10:04] yuvipanda: want a one-button copy or just say 'select your own text'? [20:10:36] brion: yeah, some design love would be nice, I guess. Plus to get a one-button copy we need hybrid - can't do that from full web [20:10:43] yep [20:10:44] *this* Phonegap woiuld be a nice use of. [20:10:50] :) [20:11:09] brion: jdlrobson jgonera awjr_lunch MaxSem is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile/Release_history#Mobile_Web_Beta_Features up to date ? [20:11:32] brion: i've the android part sortof written at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Android_keyboard_for_bilinguals [20:12:17] brion: the sidebar selector is nice. Uses a little library called 'sidetap' to do the sidebar stuff. [20:12:27] tfinc, maybe we should add dynamic search of content language [20:12:42] add it [20:12:56] aded a note that the RL support needs some more work [20:18:17] brion: want to start a doc on it? [20:18:47] RL? i'll write up some notes [20:19:28] brion: no, mobile + ime :) [20:19:37] ah well i'll write that up too then :D [20:20:22] tfinc: do you recall anything other than the ime work that we were talking about for language? we played a little bit at the summit with mobile app for translatewiki, don't know if we can dedicate time to that [20:21:13] so here is the deal. we have a quarter set aside for this. so we have time to do multiple things but brion you have to prioritize it with alolita [20:21:18] now if we finish early thats totally fine [20:21:23] excellent [20:21:25] as we have some fun app work [20:21:33] my bias is to finish early [20:21:49] so that if we decide to port the wikipedia app to objective c then we have time to do it [20:21:55] otherwise it'll shift to next year [20:21:57] +1 to finish early [20:22:02] also [20:22:17] if we use the full three months then the iOS dev will be all alone working on the commons app [20:22:19] which will suck for them [20:22:48] so thats my bias but if you come up with a full three months of i18n work then we can talk about it [20:22:57] i'm also happy to organize the work if you need me to brion [20:23:06] excellent. i suspect we'll finish early indeed, unless more projects pop up :) [20:26:04] but unless you tell me brion i'm going to lean on you to organize the work and work with alolita [20:26:06] let me know [20:26:17] agreed. ill sync up with alolita [20:26:25] mail her as she's still in India [20:32:49] brion: keep me in the loop too? [20:33:06] yep emailing now [20:36:46] New patchset: JGonera; "Remove dead code in mf-languages.js [beta]" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37935 [20:42:26] brion did you say earlier that RL still needs some love in MF? it seems to work fine for me locally [20:42:54] awjr: mainly we need to move more things over to it so we can avoid the cache-clear step at some point in future [20:43:08] brion: oh - what's left to move over? [20:43:15] writing up notes now :) [20:43:18] sweet :) [20:43:44] we should probably get that slated for the upcoming iteration then since we'll be turning on RL for mobile in production tomorrow [20:46:41] New patchset: JGonera; "Fix indentation in mf-history.js" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37938 [20:50:11] jcmish, what's the cutoff for changes for tomorrow's deployment? [20:53:08] awjr: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile/ResourceLoader [20:54:33] brion thanks [20:56:07] brion i added a card to move the rest of js/css to fully embrace resource loader, hopefully we can get it prioritized for the upcoming sprint [20:56:15] excellent [20:56:24] Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37938 [20:59:44] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Remove dead code in mf-languages.js and mf-navigation.css [beta]" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37935 [20:59:44] can someone take a look at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:open+project:mediawiki/extensions/GeoData,n,z ? [20:59:58] jgonera: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37935/1 [21:00:57] New review: Jdlrobson; "Also found some css we could remove. Checked with jgonera so merging." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 1 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37935 [21:00:57] Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37935 [21:03:50] MaxSem: superb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MaxSem [21:03:57] is that you in the red mask? [21:04:12] tsk [21:04:24] it will remain this way until tey're all free [21:04:46] i just didn't realize you were a member [21:04:59] lol [21:19:46] MaxSem awjr: any good with bash ? [21:19:47] git diff --name-only| grep -P '\.less$' | echo 'yo' [21:19:56] anyway to only make that echo 'yo' if grep returns something? [21:20:08] yuvipanda: ^ [21:20:31] if grep ... do ; echo ... ; fi [21:20:39] jdlrobson: ^ [21:21:33] MaxSem: :D lemme try [21:22:03] details will take you a couple hours to debug but don't worry:P [21:22:16] :P [21:26:33] Change merged: awjrichards; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37321 [21:27:21] Change merged: awjrichards; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37322 [21:31:27] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "run make less and save results" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37943 [21:31:27] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "run make less if a less file changed" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37944 [21:31:48] Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37943 [21:34:08] jdlrobson, did I tell you that "make less" sounds awesome?:P [21:34:32] i love make less [21:34:40] i need to add make less more [21:34:45] Maryana: do you know anything about the CustomUserSignup extension? [21:34:47] or make less less [21:36:01] make as little as possible [21:36:10] ...is the next stop! [21:37:46] sorry MaxSem ran to lunch and looks like i lost connectivity [21:38:14] tomorrow's deployment are we still deploying at 1pm PST? [21:39:30] yup [21:39:47] the schedule's always at http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Deployments [21:40:48] k cool then I say tomorrow at 11pst for cut off [21:41:07] I'm pretty up to date... i tested this weekend and should be able to get any additional done in between [21:41:22] jgonera, jdlrobson, brion are one of you available to help me look at some JS to determine whether or not it will be safe to run on mobile devices? [21:41:32] and css for that matter [21:42:46] any opinions on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37600/ ? it's a pretty delicate matter, however I decided to cut all the cruft drastically [22:01:54] awjr: you were asking about customusersignup? you should chat w/s page about it. do you want me to arrange a mtg for you guys? [22:02:17] Maryana: no it's ok, we're in touch. im just trying to understand all the things that interact with account creation in production before i go much further [22:03:15] E3's been working up a storm on account creation, so they probably know more about it than anyone else at this point [22:03:33] Maryana: cool yeah im looking through their code now to try and figure out what we can use [22:04:26] hey [22:06:04] so... you just got your new SSL cert for mobile [22:06:19] and for the first time ever, mobile and non-mobile actually just use ONE cert [22:06:34] which is star.wikipedia.org with additional ".m." in it [22:06:50] you should see one issued by DigiCert now and valid until 2016 [22:07:06] (and not the one that expired tomorrow :) so it was about time:) [22:07:36] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37940/1/manifests/protoproxy.pp [22:09:07] awjr: you're always welcome to pester people in #wikimedia-e3, too :) [22:09:13] ooo [22:09:28] mutante, awesome! [22:09:45] now we just need to make https redirects to .m work :p [22:10:27] mutante, is it not deployed yet? [22:10:35] MaxSem: it is deployed [22:10:56] mutante, https://en.m.wikisource.org/ [22:11:04] ah, caches [22:11:13] MaxSem: wait, that isnt wikipedia [22:11:17] i am only talking about wikipedia.org [22:11:46] so sister sites still don't have valid certs? [22:12:44] no [22:12:55] there is just a single config for "mobilewikipedia" that i touched [22:13:04] and one new cert for *.wikipedia.org [22:13:26] i did not know anyone was going to buy the same for all sister projects.. but hmmm [22:14:04] the difference is that it is NOT "test-star" anymore and it has the ".m." in it [22:14:18] so same config for wikipedia and mobilewikipedia [22:15:06] you would need to buy more certs like that and also add new config to "protoproxy.pp" to even have something like "mobilewikisource" there to configure [22:15:57] so far the only thing "mobile" at all is wikipedia [22:16:03] *I*? [22:16:10] :P [22:16:36] you as unspecified pronoun [22:17:06] but.. yeah.. it is public repo [22:17:25] https://itunes.apple.com/app/id473512078?mt=8 [22:17:25] i havent heard requests to buy those other certs [22:17:34] and afaik they cost quite a bit [22:18:13] mutante, https://rt.wikimedia.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=2541 [22:18:29] well,, without the change today you would have gotten errors for all users within the next few hours [22:19:05] MaxSem: ah, thanks [22:19:28] oh, yes, true, totally. the current situation was to ask for that [22:19:42] to get all domains into one single cert... ack! [22:19:55] waiting for RobH to update that then [22:21:27] we need to concentrate all information/requests about SSL in one place - otherwise by the time we need to renew our certs everyone will forget everything [22:23:06] thats not a huge worry for me,, we had a due date on this ticket and ..it worked.. on the time it had to be done [22:23:15] also existing Nagios monitoring (it should) [22:23:18] for cert expiry [22:24:31] meh, i see broken Nagios check for cert expiry on "nfs" boxes.. that needs fixing .. but there is some stuff ..at least [22:25:08] i could actually create a new "renew cert" ticket right now and make it "due" in 2016 :) [22:31:40] Maryana: card 140 says creating an account on mobile follows the same workflow as on desktop, but e3 says they're throwing out most of what they've done for account signup on the desktop. it would be helpful to get the acceptance criteria updated to cover how to handle validating input and error handling. to start out with, im inclined to suggest that we keep the creation form simple/basic like the login form (eg not use much if any of E3's mag [22:33:45] ok - just to clarify, you just mean client-side error validation when you say "same flow as desktop", or is there more? [22:33:47] ohh .. youtube redesign [22:33:50] nifty [22:34:28] its almost getting to the point where its usable [22:34:31] Maryana: i guess i don't know - it's too vague :) [22:34:49] heh, ok, lemme take a look & see if i can clarify [22:35:33] Maryana: re validation/error handling - i mean client side or server side, depending on what you guys want [22:35:45] Maryana: thanks :) [22:36:31] gotcha. yeah, it's confusing b/c i was thinking of the future acct. creation workflow on desktop, the one that e3 is productizing, not the current one we have [22:36:38] my bad [22:37:05] Maryana: i figure if we start out with a fairly vanilla account creation form (a la mediawiki w/o any bells and whistles), then E3 can piggy back off of that for their own experimentation [22:37:19] since that's more their domain than ours anyway [22:37:26] werd [22:42:27] * yuvipanda goes to try sleep [22:45:26] awjr: ok, updated #140 to reflect that and the confirmation message vs. redirect thing from this morning's meeting [22:45:55] Maryana: awesome thanks [22:45:58] i'll take a look shortly [22:46:08] i wish there was a mobile app for mingle [22:46:26] haha, that is how we will make our mingles [22:46:28] millions! [22:46:32] i meant millions [22:46:33] ahh [22:46:36] lulz [22:46:50] i retire from life [22:48:25] jdlrobson [22:48:27] yt? [22:52:02] awjr: pm [22:53:52] MaxSem: just fyi, we have monitoring that would mail or page us http://nagios.wikimedia.org/nagios/cgi-bin/extinfo.cgi?type=2&host=ssl1&service=HTTPS [22:54:09] incl. the expiry date in one check [22:57:01] mutante, I discovered that adding `* * * * * echo "..."` to crontab on a labs instance works wonders:P so now I can just s/.../RT#2541/ XD [22:57:40] poor man's Nagios [23:00:24] New patchset: JGonera; "(bug 41875) Language variants" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37857 [23:03:04] New patchset: JGonera; "(bug 41875) Language variants" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37857 [23:04:11] New patchset: JGonera; "(bug 41875) Language variants" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37857 [23:35:28] jdlrobson: i −1'd https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/37288/ - nothing major [23:39:54] * tfinc wonders where brion is [23:46:13] hmm it's supposed to drop below freezing tonight in tucson [23:46:24] that will be a significant change of pace [23:49:20] awjr: is that even possible ? [23:49:34] heh this time of year yes [23:49:43] there's the occasional snow in dec/jan/feb [23:49:55] actually i saw it snow here once in early april, but that was a freak occurrence [23:50:12] tfinc but it will still hit 65-75 during the day [23:50:38] is this just tucson or all of arizona ? [23:50:59] because i've never understood how you can justify a hockey team in your state [23:51:13] lol [23:51:52] tfinc anywhere in az between 2000 and 4000 feet probably. the mountains see real winter :)