[00:00:03] jgonera: now getting Failed assertion: TypeError: 'null' is not an object (evaluating 'content.getElementsByTagName') [00:00:04] Failed assertion: Expected number of assertions to be defined, but expect() was not called. :-S [00:00:23] what file/line? [00:01:20] mf-toggle.js:101TypeError: 'null' is not an object (evaluating 'content.getElementsByTagName') [00:01:22] anyway, something went wrong when rebasing in this one: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/50442/8/MobileFrontend.php [00:01:23] jdlrobson_, so breaking how many mobile users is OK for you? [00:01:27] i think that will happen if fixtures.js has not been added [00:01:45] why doesn't it happen for me :/ [00:02:43] because it's not just a matter of 'JS silently fails', it's 'browser hits Java heap limit and crashes' or 'it kinda loads the JS but is so freaking slow' [00:04:47] MaxSem: what do you think of this? https://gist.github.com/awjrichards/0182a6470129a4c35cbd [00:04:47] jdlrobson_, it doesn't seem to be related to fixtures, when I remove them, some tests simply fail [00:04:55] jgonera: :( [00:08:23] awjr, I think I don't understand what's the problem is [00:08:34] I thought it's no cache headers [00:10:05] MaxSem existing code essentially forces non-public caches (like your browser) to not cache [00:10:54] i had initially set some arbitrary values for max-age in the VCL, but you had said you'd prefer it if we honored Cache-Control headers coming from Mediawiki [00:11:10] so what adding must-revalidate will achieve? [00:11:18] so what i've added will do that, if they are present, and ensure that must-revalidate is added [00:11:33] New review: JGonera; "Why was it broken if it already had 'targets' => 'mobile'?" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57216 [00:11:51] MaxSem: iirc it will force private caches to revalidate when max-age has expired [00:12:07] yeah, but it can get it to cache [00:12:23] *can't [00:12:45] as long as max-age is set, the private cache will cache the resrouces [00:13:17] ok, Jon disappeared, I'll try to fix that one more problem with my changeset tomorrow [00:13:24] anyone needs anything before I go? [00:14:29] nope :) goodnight jgonera [00:14:42] good night [00:14:47] MaxSem: must-revalidate just ensures that the private cache won't serve stale content (after expiry) [00:15:18] awjr, this doesn't fix "existing code essentially forces non-public caches (like your browser) to not cache" ? [00:16:05] well, that depends on what MW sends as Cache-Control headers. what this does is allow you to control Cache-Control headers from MW all the way to the client [00:16:50] unless i wonked something up - cache-control headers gets confusing quickly. [00:20:23] riiight. what's most important is what was removed, not what was added [00:21:38] in that change, yes, and that it ensure must-revalidate is tacked on [00:22:11] mmm, why doesn't MW send it in the first place [00:22:46] im looking through OutputPage now and it looks like it actually always does... [00:23:30] also… it looks like it /always/ sets max-age=0 [00:23:36] huh [00:26:59] so what's currently happening for mobile actually doesn't seem any different to me from what's happening on desktop [00:27:24] which is, as far as i can tell, Cache-Control:private, s-maxage=0, max-age=0, must-revalidate [00:28:21] well, that's because you're logged in [00:28:23] nope [00:28:42] it looks like this happens from squid [00:28:57] (im logged out, in a new private browsing window) [00:29:23] in /h/w/conf/squid/frontend.conf.php: header_replace Cache-Control private, s-maxage=0, max-age=0, must-revalidate [00:32:11] header_access Cache-Control deny wpcontent !wpestatic [00:34:38] MaxSem: what does that do? [00:35:34] ah [00:35:55] MaxSem: so the header_replace line i pasted above replaces the specified header for the 'denies' [00:36:06] http://www.squid-cache.org/Doc/config/header_replace/ http://www.squid-cache.org/Doc/config/header_access/ [00:37:05] Varnish is soooo easier to comprehend [00:37:11] heh srsly [00:37:22] Squid is Morse code [00:38:12] so basically squid overwrites the Cache-Control headers only for requests matching ^/w(iki)?/.* [00:38:34] everything else is left alone, i guess [00:43:29] i dunno MaxSem, i feel a little more confused now. [00:56:40] meh, responded to the ops thread MaxSem [00:57:01] im about to take off - anyone need anything from me before i wander off for a few days? [00:57:47] nope [05:08:11] New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Moving zero specific code over to Zero" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57554 [05:08:27] New review: Jdlrobson; "Forgot the less file ^" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57554 [06:42:55] ragesoss: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#Missing_author.2Fsource_parameters_on_mobile_uploads:_fix_coming :( [06:42:55] See Fae's proposal [10:52:45] New patchset: Hashar; "Jenkins job validation (DO NOT SUBMIT)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57732 [10:53:43] Change abandoned: Hashar; "(no reason)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57732 [16:36:34] dr0ptpkt, test [16:37:02] dr0ptp4kt, test [16:37:46] qgil, thanks [16:38:09] dr0ptp4kt, a pleasure :) [17:01:52] Hey Maryana. [17:01:59] yo yo [17:02:27] jgonera, are we still doing standup? [17:02:38] I was about to ask the same thing [17:02:41] heh [17:02:45] I just opened hangout [17:02:49] MaxSem is there [17:03:16] I assume everyone has seen the Commons village pump stuff. [17:03:18] is Jon on vacation or just working from home? [17:04:18] ie, Fae proposing to use a bot to just delete everything coming in from mobile/web, among other things. [17:04:22] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#Missing_author.2Fsource_parameters_on_mobile_uploads:_fix_coming [17:05:35] mhurd: hi, welcome, and stuff! [17:05:46] hi! [17:06:43] ragesoss, sigh [17:06:56] indeed. [17:11:34] hey maryana, what's the name of the google hangout for the standup? i can't find... [17:11:53] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8bc98160cdf0396821e2ba381099b56fde42cb0c [17:11:56] mhurd ^ [17:28:25] strange… trying to bookmark the hangout on my laptop (for later) and it says i'm not allowed to join [17:32:43] MaxSem, what was the new detection rules patchset? [17:32:57] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55446 [17:53:32] MaxSem, so what might be the problem with what Krinkle and Jon suggested? That we run JS on too many or too few browsers? [17:57:26] that Jon's and Timo's code doesn't blacklist a lot of obscure dumbphones [17:58:42] I removed a few that were too generic. If you have a more specific way to blacklist them (including versions) feel free to add them back. I said this already in the comments. [17:59:30] Also, I'd be nice to have this verified by someone in direct contact (e.g. not "The internet says" but more like "I ran it and it caused uncaught exceptions in javascript" [18:00:27] Also I don't think this is the place to blacklist every (now obsure) browser every created that is old and incompatible. [18:00:52] If it's below our traffic minimum it falls into grade X afaik, which means we will not support it by disabling javascript. [18:01:57] Krinkle, ever heard how some phones react to jQuery? [18:02:16] Yes, but jQuery has changed a lot and so have we. [18:02:21] browser crash or a serious slowdown is not a mere 'js error' [18:02:27] As jQuery says on the page you quote [18:02:27] there is a difference between known to break and not supported. [18:02:29] startup.js is about known to break. [18:02:56] So browsers that are not below the traffic minimum and known to break: those we blacklist. [18:03:32] if that includes those phones then by all means, add them. I only removed them because they were too generic (no version check), I didn't remove them because of the above reason, that's just what I'm saying now in answer to your question. [18:04:11] did you ask first if a version check is needed? [18:07:12] okay, here's the deal: we've got detection routines that are known to work. why break the hell out of it? [18:10:49] Krinkle, I agree with MaxSem that version might not be necessary for all the browsers, e.g. some that are no longer actively developed and unlikely to change even if version is bumped by 1 minor point [18:11:26] jgonera: Are those browsers significant enough to check for on the client side on every request? [18:11:35] MaxSem, I agree with Krinkle and Jon that rewriting those rules might be a good idea, because the old ones, although they work now, look unmaintainable and this is definitely a piece of code that will be changed in the future [18:12:46] Krinkle, that I don't know, but if there's just a few of them about which we're arguing about, then I would say that the little overhead in JS is not worth all the negative emotions around the subject ;) [18:12:59] I just want to make sure we don't make assumptions on old code that has been edited by 100s of people and could easily have slipped over the years and of course jQuery has changed a lot over time as well. So anything based on assumptions of over a year ago is invalid imho. [18:13:50] Use common sense, we'll see further on Gerrit. [18:14:12] jgonera, I never said that this stuff should never change. however, when reproducing this functionality in JS, shouldn't we start with existing algorithm and then carefully improve it [18:14:25] it's a matter of revolution vs. evolution [18:15:09] MaxSem, I see your point but I'm afraid that it's one of those things that nobody will want to do in future and it will stay the way it is until it's absolutely terrible [18:16:00] if it's covered by tests, it should never be impossible to change [18:17:38] jgonera, how many ancient phones do we have in office? [18:19:52] MaxSem, it's hard for me to check right now, but quite a few [18:20:07] another question is how many of them still work ;) [18:21:14] are those previous rules (taken from Squid?) covered by tests? [18:21:47] yes, after I ported the Squid ACLs to PHP I covered them with tests [18:23:28] so here's my proposal: we return back some of the checks removed by Krinkle/jdlrobson, only the direly needed ones (not e.g. Opera Mini which although doesn't support jQuery, it is a problem for Opera's servers, not users). we merge it and enable varied resources on testwiki next week [18:24:16] ... [18:25:07] then we go through the stats and test current status for phones above of some threshold (we'll determine it when tfinc will be back) and decide when to enable it for the rest of WP [18:26:06] jgonera, Krinkle, how does it sound?^^^ [18:28:08] MaxSem: you detached him [18:30:32] test and modify if needed (including removing some rules)? [18:32:01] My ISP is horrible today, I haven't gotten a lock on the net for more than an hour [18:34:54] jgonera, the initial set of rules is short enough that it's not realistic to find any extra removals there [18:35:55] I was talking about additions [18:42:38] MaxSem, let's continue this when Jon is back on Monday, I'm sure that we'll reach some conclusion that everyone is happy about. After all we all want the same thing: reliable and maintainable device detection ;) [18:52:27] Maryana: hey! [18:52:37] I have to go now, I think there's no more urgent things in code review, but if there's something left just drop me an email and I'll have a look over the weekend [18:52:42] hey yuvipanda, you're not supposed to be working today [18:52:49] Maryana: yeah, I just woke up [18:53:03] midnight is the best time to wake up, and it is saturday! [18:53:05] have a good weekend, jgonera [18:53:20] Maryana: I'm building something for ragesoss, but I figured I should also respond on VP [18:53:33] yeah…. crafting a statement now [18:53:37] thanks, you too [18:53:37] want me to share w/you? [18:53:40] Maryana: yes [18:54:19] you should feel free to respond on your own, of course [18:54:38] i just wanted to lay out the big official message [18:54:52] Maryana: yeah, I shouldn't be talking without knowing what you're going to say :) [18:54:54] too many cooks, etc [18:55:04] shared [18:55:09] lemme know what you think [18:55:47] * YuviPanda looks [18:57:26] Maryana: yeah, first paragraph was what I wanted to say, so I'll stay quiet'ish for now [18:57:28] want to be very clear that apps uploaders should not be tarnished by mobile web selfies! [18:57:34] and pimp out the YuviPanda (WMF) account [18:57:35] heh, ok [18:58:37] Maryana: poke me when that goes out, I do want to respond to RD about how the use case for commons app is not 'desperate naivete', but want this to go out first [18:58:49] will do [18:59:01] and thanks, i will very much appreciate the backup! [18:59:14] Maryana: also headsup - I removed all links to the design mockups on the commons app page. They were mostly grossly inaccurate anyway, and don't want fuel to feed the flames :) [18:59:26] gotcha [18:59:27] Maryana: :) [18:59:38] should i not link to the commons app page? [18:59:57] Maryana: it's sortof a mess. [19:00:03] ok, i won't [19:00:10] i do link to the uploaded with android cat [19:00:12] Maryana: I'm going to fix it up soon. [19:00:16] but that's fine - lotta good stuff in there [19:00:20] okey doke [19:00:26] Maryana: there's also [[Commons:Mobile app]] which is slightly better [19:00:28] and i'm fixing that first [19:00:49] i'll let you link to it if you want [19:00:58] we can play good cop/bad cop [19:01:03] i'm the bad mobile web cop [19:01:07] and you're the good apps cop :) [19:03:00] Maryana: :D [19:03:03] sure [19:06:30] [WikipediaMobile] brion pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QFYxWg [19:06:30] WikipediaMobile/master 901367f Brion Vibber: Update wiki list: fixes bad main page for Esperanto [19:12:16] lunch [19:12:39] brion: we should totally mess with people and release the native app as a minor point release ;) [19:23:42] >.< [19:24:45] hello legoktm [19:24:53] hi YuviPanda [19:24:59] * legoktm wants his native app :) [19:25:06] legoktm: give it a few months :) [19:25:13] legoktm: I bet iOS will get it first, considering it has more people working on it [19:25:24] good thing I'm on iOS! [19:25:30] iOS has 1.5 people on it now. Android has currently 0.75 people, and will have 0 people for the month of may [19:47:24] eeek, got a PHP crash investigating DBA performance [20:01:19] YuviPanda: heh [20:19:10] [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/OueOMA [20:19:10] Commons-iOS/master 226b1f6 Monte Hurd: Fix for bug45463 including button animations... [20:19:10] Commons-iOS/master f0bacab Brion Vibber: Restore storyboard XML bits that XCode likes to spontaneously delete [21:04:33] yuvipanda, still up? [21:04:45] Maryana: saw the VP edit :) [21:05:01] wikistalker :) [21:05:06] hehe :P [21:05:17] Maryana: watchlist -> email -> phone [21:56:16] oh wow, someone managed to upload a sound file via the mobile web? [21:56:17] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lead_Photo_For_Hic_sunt_dracones0-2664145389571786.ogg [21:56:41] Maryana: :) [21:56:58] Maryana: the description sounds... interesting [21:57:33] heh [22:02:36] ohai [22:02:39] greg-g: ohai [22:02:45] greg-g: on your phone's 'settings', under 'accounts' [22:02:49] you'll find "Wikimedia Commons" [22:03:00] can you check if sync is enabled for two things? [22:03:06] Uploads & Modifications? [22:03:12] yep, both [22:03:26] last sync 2 hours ago [22:03:55] greg-g: hit sync again? [22:04:12] greg-g: you picked it from 'select from gallery' option, right? [22:04:23] yeah [22:04:27] ok [22:04:34] greg-g: did it sync? [22:04:51] greg-g: yup, I see categories being added [22:04:52] just sync'd [22:04:52] :) [22:04:56] oh, huh [22:05:00] ok, BUG REPORT! [22:05:14] greg-g: how has your connectivity been in the meantime? [22:05:23] greg-g: have you been always on? [22:05:35] greg-g: but yes, BUG REPORT! [22:05:37] decent, either on home wifi or 3/4G or WMF wifi [22:05:46] I'll let you do the bug report ;) [22:06:30] greg-g: yeah, doing it [22:06:33] greg-g: hmm, okay [22:06:48] greg-g: so Android uses 'secret sauce' to figure out when and how to actually run the sync [22:06:59] greg-g: might run it in a day, might run it in 2 minutes, I don't know [22:07:03] that's probably not good. [22:07:16] lame [22:07:34] it said it had synced two hours ago, according to that accounts screen for Wikiemdia Commons [22:07:48] yeah [22:07:57] greg-g: it might've synced my uploads bu tnot mofications [22:08:02] lame [22:08:07] :) [22:08:13] greg-g: agreed :) [22:08:39] thanks YuviPanda, for helping here [22:08:57] greg-g: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46935 [22:09:03] greg-g: thanks for reporting it! [22:11:05] you're welcome (cc'd myself to it, feel free to ping me for diagnosing) [22:11:22] greg-g: thanks ;) [22:11:26] greg-g: also, what phone? [22:11:37] Galaxy SII [22:11:58] ah, sweet [22:19:17] what is the name of the apps? "Wikimedia Commons"? [22:21:47] yes [22:22:32] moogsi: only on Android app store, though. [22:22:55] iOS coming soon. [22:24:34] cheers, there is quite a bit of uncategorized media on Commons and i'm gonna sweep it all together somewhere [22:24:48] ah, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Commons_app [22:25:51] moogsi that's assets for the apps. not uploaded by the app. [22:26:04] i know, that's what i'm talking about [22:26:19] * YuviPanda looks [22:26:20] :) [22:26:50] I've mentioned it before, but I'll note that most of the mockups do not represent how the apps are going to be [22:27:31] yeah i'm not gonan wave it at people and go BEHOLD, THE FUTURE [22:28:35] :) [22:29:12] ori-l had a really good idea for how to potentially avoid letting people upload copyvio - check their EXIF data on upload [22:29:21] how feasible would this be? [22:30:05] Maryana: on mobile web I'm sortof unsure. [22:30:20] hrm, too bad jon's not around [22:30:22] Maryana: also I'm unsure how that'll help - since you let people pick from their phone too, and they can easily pick things that they took a while ago [22:30:42] Maryana: from my experiences with uploading, I'm not too optimistic [22:30:50] i guess you could look for "©" or "copyright" in the EXIF fields [22:31:11] those sometimes turn up in the author field if the image is copyrighted [22:31:26] yeah. it could be an extra step though - like, if no EXIF data, then triggers a popup saying "you sure you want to proceed? this doesn't look like a photo you took..." [22:31:47] Maryana: okay, it is technically possible to read EXIF on JS [22:32:19] will check w/jon & juliusz next week [22:32:21] okay [22:32:22] aahh that's a good idea... because all the phones will add EXIF data to pictures they take, web images have it stripped off [22:32:27] usually [22:32:29] yep :) [22:32:33] sometimes [22:32:38] but at least it's an extra precaution [22:32:39] yeah, needs some fun heuristics, though [22:33:00] Maryana: moogsi mentioned that getting the 'tutorial' in place first would be a good first step [22:33:09] Maryana: is it scheduled for next iter? Or is it already deployed? [22:33:12] yeah, we're definitely gonna work on that next week [22:33:28] we do have the tutorial deployed already [22:33:36] but it needs some copy tweaks, clearly [22:33:41] i said that the only thing you need to tell people is "please upload photos you took yourself" [22:33:52] heh, yeah [22:33:57] that's going on the first page, definitely [22:34:30] you can very subtly make people feel special about Their photos [22:34:33] we honestly thought no one would understand why they should upload photos - that's why we put the "why upload to wikipedia" thing on the first screen [22:34:45] like ONLY YOU CAN MAKE THIS CONTRIBUTION TO HISTORY.. but more subtle [22:34:51] hehe [22:34:59] like, without the caps? :P [22:35:06] telling people they can't do things is boring [22:35:07] help us, obiwan ke-newbie, you're our only hope! [22:35:13] oh wow, Fae just went on strike. [22:35:25] strike? [22:35:35] 'I am not going to upload stuff until you guys fix this' [22:35:42] uh. ok. [22:35:46] this is getting out of hand [22:35:47] * Maryana shrugs [22:35:54] * YuviPanda sighs [22:36:08] fae just hates the WMF [22:36:25] yeah, I'm saddened by the amount of people who do that [22:36:28] yeah i mean.. positive reinforcement if you're giving people restrictions [22:36:35] we're just on the same side :( [22:36:39] no caps.. [22:36:48] no, we're the evil dark side [22:36:53] we just want to destroy commons [22:36:57] because… profit? [22:37:02] :) [22:37:09] because destroying commons is the way to fundraise [22:37:11] I think [22:37:12] or something [22:37:30] thanks for your constructive comments on the thread, btw, moogsi [22:38:44] np.. i was alarmed myself.. i think the deletion rate for the mobile app is >80% [22:39:03] i mean mobile web [22:39:06] ugh [22:39:06] it's only 30% [22:39:12] i checked in the database [22:39:13] huh no way [22:39:25] yeah, people are exaggerating somewhat :) [22:39:34] i was trying to check but toolserver is down [22:39:43] it's easy to notice the crappy selfies and miss the reasonable/good stuff [22:39:56] they are exaggerating because the entire copyvio queue is stuff from mobile web [22:40:09] yeah, that's no good [22:40:27] we'll fix that :) [22:40:36] yeah i know [22:41:48] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lead_Photo_For_DonateImage0-5832903739064932.jpg [22:41:53] see, some good stuff in there! [22:42:48] i was trying to guess... i looked at the deletion log for the 4th and there were ~170 mobile web deletions in one day.. only 400 actually in the category itself. i was extrapolating :P [22:43:05] * moogsi kicks toolserver again [22:44:20] welp, that's only 40% :) but yeah, it's still high [22:44:34] gotta bring that down [22:44:54] *in one 24-hour period vs all the uploads ever [22:45:03] i was thinking... there's no way that the deletion rate is 30%, or there would have been ~550 good uploads in the same period. where are those? [22:45:30] on the 4th of april i mean [22:45:35] Maryana: do you have stats on the smae for the apps? [22:45:58] i can run 'em for you if you want, yes [22:46:19] Maryana: that'll be nice :) [22:46:27] Maryana: oh, or can you just share the SQL? I can run it myself... [22:47:01] moogsi: most of the uploads came in on the 4th. before that it was a couple hundred. and some hadn't been added to the category [22:47:08] yuvipanda, yeah, one sec [22:47:26] Maryana: ah i see [22:50:43] yuvipanda: this *should* work [22:50:45] select log_title from logging, recentchanges where rc_comment = "Uploaded with Commons for Android" and rc_title = logging.log_title and log_action = "delete" [22:54:13] Maryana: is this on s1-analytics-slave? [22:54:26] ah, no, s4 [22:54:34] that's where the commonswiki db lives [22:55:06] ah this i did not know [22:55:49] Maryana: bleh, the researcher account doesn't have access [22:55:52] to the commons db [22:56:00] really? it should [22:56:19] are you using sequel pro? [22:56:24] or some other gui? [22:56:28] Maryana: no GUI [22:56:32] oh well i've tried to be supportive there [22:56:41] on commons vp [22:56:45] much appreciated, moogsi :) [22:57:51] or at least not commit admin suicide right below your comment :l [22:58:05] heh [23:01:32] what you said about improving wiki articles with images is interesting [23:01:45] i'm often surprised by the amount of Commons images which aren't used [23:02:16] search for basically any species and you'll find a decent image, but there are quite a few species articles on the wikipedias which go unillustrated [23:02:40] macroscopic species at least [23:03:17] people don't upload so many microbes [23:04:32] * tfinc looks about [23:04:38] ahh ... its good to be back [23:04:57] * tfinc waves to awjr_away dr0ptp4kt yurik and lots of others about [23:06:03] welcome back! [23:06:37] * brion waves [23:08:24] thanks brion and dr0ptp4kt [23:08:38] its like apple christmas time here on my desk [23:09:06] and i used safari for the only thing i knew it to be good for. downloading chrome. [23:09:27] tfinc: welcome back boss :) [23:09:34] hey YuviPanda! [23:10:02] my leaning out of auto rickshaws helped out in argentina :D [23:10:42] tfinc: hah! :D [23:11:55] YuviPanda: have you had a chance to say hello to mhurd ? [23:12:05] tfinc: yes, I have. but not for too long. [23:12:24] we'll sync up more next week [23:12:29] yeah, Monday should be nice :) [23:12:35] get some app team meetings going \o/ [23:12:42] yeah [23:12:53] brion: tfinc we should trial trello for the next sprint [23:13:01] yeah i was thinking that [23:13:29] it'll be awesome [23:13:39] hopefully i can get some of the work in on monday [23:13:59] :) [23:14:11] YuviPanda: do we really lose you in a month ? say it aint so [23:14:15] i dont like this plan [23:14:18] tfinc: less than a month :( [23:14:23] ;_; [23:14:24] just graduate so that we can be done with this [23:14:32] yup. soon enough. [23:14:33] brion: mhurd: how will we live without our panda ? [23:14:50] we've gotten really spoiled by always having you around [23:14:50] we'll make a cutout to put in google hangouts [23:14:56] * tfinc just caught up on the pitch forks thread [23:15:10] brion: we'd only need a black rectangle [23:15:16] easy then :D [23:15:17] it's quite difficult to find things on commons. prohibitively difficult for someone who doesn't even know how to get to commons from their local wiki :) [23:15:27] tfinc: yeah, I got this on now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:YuviPanda_(WMF) :) [23:15:37] commons needs a major overhaul.. but that's really outside our scope :) [23:15:45] brion: commons needs wikibase [23:16:09] Maryana: nice response on wiki. did any of the pitchforks get put down ? [23:17:10] tfinc, we feel your pain and your suffering ;) [23:17:26] yurik: then your pain meds aren't as good as mine [23:17:42] hah [23:17:52] hehe [23:17:55] tfinc: my sleep cycle has gotten more fun now. Woke up at around midnight today [23:18:07] YuviPanda: you actually sleep ? [23:18:17] yeah, you haven't seen me in class :) [23:18:31] tfinc: I've been going to college this week (and next) so I'll *actually* be working only 30 [23:18:48] YuviPanda: and wasting 40hrs there ? [23:18:56] tfinc: yesterday I spent a fair amount of time transcribing what was being said in class to ori-l, who then read it aloud to his wife. Fun times were had. [23:19:04]