[00:02:13] <tfinc>	 brion: google gave out the chrome pixel as the freebie at i/o. today i saw a bunch of people using them and using terminals right in chrome. how are they doing it?
[00:03:35] <brion_>	 flaky WiFi sorry
[00:07:09] <Maryana>	 jdlrobson, when you get a sec, mind uploading that vatican city nearby pic to commons?
[00:07:27] <Maryana>	 so i can add it to the blog media library and fill out all the copyright notes stuff? :)
[00:16:30] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, will take a look. Is that a bug of sorts, or is it related to link at the bottom?
[00:42:26] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, sorry for the delay. it is a blocker with a partner. my impression is the issue has been there for some time, but i can't say for certain.
[00:57:25] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64208
[01:10:50] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "(removing -1 to get attention)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63907
[01:13:50] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "I think a better approach would be to make SkinMobileZero in ZeroRatedMobileExtension which extends ..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[01:26:57] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Follow up to I426078248a02b231e50040bc0567ea7e64bd0fdc" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[01:28:15] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, sorry, had to go onto mifi and connection dropped. i'm heading out for the night.
[01:43:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Shirayuki; "Message documentation (qqq) is mainly for translators, not for programmers." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[02:11:08] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Shirayuki; "For example, mobile-frontend-photo-nag-1-bullet-1-heading and mobile-frontend-photo-nag-1-bullet-1-t..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[03:09:53] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Yurik; "Doesn't work. I installed http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Interwiki and in  Special:Interwik..." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64222
[03:11:44] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, there?
[03:11:51] <yurik>	 your patch doesn't work
[04:48:21] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "Shirayuki could you please explain the workflow for how and why you grep for keys. I would be really..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[07:30:14] <liangent>	 MaxSem or whoever: what's our initial motivation to try dynamic section loading?
[07:30:25] <MaxSem>	 load less
[07:31:35] <liangent>	 MaxSem: and expect that users don't really read every section?
[07:31:45] <MaxSem>	 yes
[07:32:23] <MaxSem>	 EventLogging indicates that section clicks are much less frequent than page loads
[07:35:02] <liangent>	 MaxSem: is everyone aware that they can expand sections?
[07:35:18] <liangent>	 when https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48510 happened to me I even thought there're some empty sections
[07:35:21] <MaxSem>	 hehe
[08:03:19] <liangent>	 MaxSem: do you have any advice to make our new main page ( the one you saw yesterday; now at https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/ ) more compatible in mobile beta mode?
[08:03:48] <MaxSem>	 we've already fixed that bug
[08:03:59] <liangent>	 nope not that issue
[08:04:14] <liangent>	 any generally advice of html structure & classes?
[08:05:40] <MaxSem>	 I'm not much of a formatting guy, just a general advice of using 1 column, not assuming any screen width, etc
[09:35:10] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Yurik; "Scripts to match IPs against known CIDR blocks and choose the best." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64268
[09:53:01] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Yurik; "Renamed $render* to $show* variables, del dbg flag" [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64269
[10:27:42] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Shirayuki; "I want the message documentation to be clarified about the usage ("This message is used as ...") eve..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[12:48:54] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Zfilipin; "Updated parallel_tests Ruby gem" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63426
[12:48:55] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Zfilipin; "Updated parallel Ruby gem" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64284
[15:36:56] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, around?
[15:37:08] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, yes, whatup
[15:37:11] <yurik>	 yei!
[15:37:15] <yurik>	 you are here! early! :)
[15:37:22] <yurik>	 didn't deploy your change
[15:37:23] <yurik>	 sorry
[15:37:25] <yurik>	 wasn't working
[15:38:01] <yurik>	 did you see my email about it?
[15:38:58] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, ?
[15:45:37] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, sorry, was talking to greg
[15:45:43] <dr0ptp4kt>	 did you *try* deploying it in prod?
[15:45:55] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, and did it fail to rewrite in prod?
[15:46:42] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, it was failing to rewrite in test - i don't want to deploy something that's not working locally, unless there is a good explanation how my local is different from prod
[15:47:22] <yurik>	 i posted notes on how to get local links enabled in your test install
[15:47:24] <yurik>	 very simple
[15:50:20] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, is dfoy around?
[15:51:21] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, sorry, just gettings bearings. not sure if dfoy is around.
[15:55:18] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, i'll review your notes. i knew there was a chance it may not work (it appears the other langs links *may* in fact be rendered into the template *post* ZRMA page-rewrites). but to unblock the carrier deployment thought it may be worth a shot in prod; it's not materially more computationally expensive. i agree, when possible, it's best to test.
[15:55:42] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, sure thing, but I need to leave earlier today, would be great if we could discuss all the issues
[15:55:54] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, and in this case I was pretty sure it wasn't fixing the issue
[15:56:42] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, what time you leaving?
[15:56:54] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MaxSem; "It should be possible to find the piece of code that uses a particular message, so removing these co..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[15:57:01] <yurik>	 11 SF
[15:57:17] <yurik>	 had a very long night with all the deployments :)
[15:58:20] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MaxSem; "Finding the description in qqq is not standard (qqq is for translators only) and not even nearly obv..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[15:59:01] <MaxSem>	 yurik, daytime work is not for us?
[15:59:18] <yurik>	 daytime is too busy - others are deploying :-P
[15:59:35] <yurik>	 and when they are not deploying, they are asking silly questions :-P
[16:00:30] <yurik>	 so when one sits deployment and new patches all night long... one needs rest :)
[16:01:41] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: MaxSem; "Jon, I disagree on this - we already override skin creation in MF, override of an override is scary:)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[16:03:59] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Dr0ptp4kt; "To help get this particular blocker resolved, could we get this patch in, and then defer the re-skin..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[16:14:49] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, you will have to convince ppl in IRC to let it through :)
[16:15:23] <yurik>	 and when it comes to code quality, devs could be much bigger obstacle than ops ;)
[16:16:57] <yurik>	 MaxSem, i think we could have a generic "post-process html" hook that gets called for each segment of the page - including body, footer, langlinks, etc
[16:17:55] <brion>	 i better get ready to go into the office if i'm going to make it for the standup... later all :)
[16:18:01] <MaxSem>	 we should no need to post-process skin elements
[16:20:55] <yurik>	 MaxSem, sure, but in that case we need to pre-process links before skin renders them
[16:21:01] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; ""It should be possible to find the piece of code that uses a particular message, so removing these c..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[16:22:24] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "So the problem is actually that you are having to look at the code in the first place?" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64249
[16:26:13] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, no rush, but would you please +2 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/63698/ ?
[16:27:07] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63698
[16:27:11] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, done, but i wonder at which point should we abandon it
[16:27:28] <yurik>	 the script has done its job (marvelously i must add :)
[16:28:09] <yurik>	 now I think the next step will be to have a small python script that loads all configs (i already have that), does a simple change, and re-uploads it
[16:28:20] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, thanks for the flattery. agreed, don't think we'll much need it after this. i guess we can always re-generate the config files by updating the monolithic configs, but it wont' be long and we'll be so far ahead on the blobs that it would be more work than is woth it.
[16:28:26] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, agreed with your python idea.
[16:28:51] <dr0ptp4kt>	 ^^yurik s/woth/worth/
[16:29:03] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64268
[16:29:31] <yurik>	 cool, will persue it when we do the next step - updating the "sites" parameter - to be "m.wiki, zero.wiki, m.wiktionary, ..."
[16:29:41] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, word.
[16:30:15] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, do you want to hangout now to discuss issues?
[16:30:26] <yurik>	 we could loop dfoy in when he comes in
[16:30:54] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, now works just fine
[16:31:23] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, actually, now that i think of it, can i have 10 minutes? coffee and stuff....
[16:33:17] <yurik>	 dr0ptp4kt, sure
[16:44:04] <dr0ptp4kt>	 yurik, ready for a g hangout?
[16:44:11] <yurik>	 yep
[17:26:03] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: the coding exercise of the connect four guy - did you get it working?
[17:28:42] <MaxSem>	 jdlrobson, I somehow managed to get 1 move through
[17:28:55] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: the json for me keeps spitting out xdebug-error xe-warning
[17:29:01] <MaxSem>	 not sure if it was a bug:)
[17:29:12] <jdlrobson>	 Warning: file_put_contents(/var/connectfour/tmp//4.json):
[17:29:35] <MaxSem>	 fun stuff is that he uses JS errors for move precendence detection
[17:29:51] <MaxSem>	 so my verdict that PHP is totally crappy
[17:31:49] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: ok got it work for one go
[17:37:01] <mhurd>	 brion: if an image does have multiple descriptions, should i show them all?
[17:37:59] <brion>	 mhurd: what we probably want is to show the current language, if available, and fall back to English. in the future we might add an option to show multiple languages
[17:38:09] <brion>	 off to the backlog board! :D
[17:38:17] <mhurd>	 brion: hehe sounds good
[17:48:41] <mhurd>	 brion: question about your "nodes in the XML tree" comment when you have a sec
[17:52:27] <brion>	 whee
[17:59:55] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Alpha: Lazy load pages using History.js from search and page content" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/62412
[18:06:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "Well at the very least we should add a simply hook to execute in MinervaSkin before render that allo..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[18:12:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Add hook to allow template tweaks before rendering" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64350
[18:12:30] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "See: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/64350/" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[18:23:38] <MaxSem>	 jdlrobson, so after poking more at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/64104 - we still need this stuff modularized somewhere because the API also uses mobile HTML
[18:23:47] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Bug 48513: Hide uploads of zero" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64352
[18:25:08] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: but the API doesn't need content_blocks etc
[18:25:35] <MaxSem>	 brion, what can you say about ^^^ ?
[18:25:36] <jdlrobson>	 we probably do a module - i just think we need to rethink what it does
[18:25:42] <jdlrobson>	 and where we use it
[18:26:00] <jdlrobson>	 that should read: we probably do *need* a module
[18:26:21] <brion>	 MaxSem: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/64104 ?
[18:26:35] <MaxSem>	 brion, that is - what particular mobile HTML features/pecularities does the app use?
[18:26:51] <MaxSem>	 yes
[18:26:53] <brion>	 uh, we fetch sections
[18:26:56] <brion>	 and section list
[18:27:12] <MaxSem>	 do you use headings?
[18:27:19] <brion>	 probably
[18:27:23] <MaxSem>	 mmm
[18:27:28] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: could we safely move usage of MobileFormatter from DOMParse to SkinMinerva ?
[18:27:58] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: if you are talking about the app the app creates its own h2s
[18:28:09] <MaxSem>	 jdlrobson, yes - the overall goal is to have no MF.body.php at all
[18:28:12] <jdlrobson>	 the API shouldn't enforce any formatting
[18:28:41] <MaxSem>	 it will likely need to be retained for b/c
[18:28:55] <jdlrobson>	 So things like jump back a section and content_block/section_heading should always be added by the skin
[18:29:03] <MaxSem>	 even if the app requests &noheadings=1
[18:29:13] <MaxSem>	 indeed
[18:29:54] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: You always use b/c as an excuse. This to me is not a problem - at the very least we can give a deprecation warning and time for any users (which i doubt exist) to update their code
[18:30:14] <MaxSem>	 I use b/c as a caution
[18:30:16] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: is it possible to see API usage without no headings ?
[18:30:27] <jdlrobson>	 that would give you your answer whether we need to care about that :)
[18:30:42] <MaxSem>	 mmm, probably Diederik could help
[18:30:59] <MaxSem>	 but you'll be surprised how people use our API:)
[18:31:30] <jdlrobson>	 Of course such a change does risk mild annoyance but I think on the long term everyone's happier
[18:32:18] <MaxSem>	 so regarding the sections, we need to differ between skin-specific stuff (collapse section, back to top or whatever) and general section reformating to give a MF look and feel
[18:33:02] <MaxSem>	 if the former is available in the API, it needs to die
[18:33:08] <MaxSem>	 the latter is different
[18:34:48] <MaxSem>	 hehehe
[18:34:51] <MaxSem>	 if ( $this->noHeadings ) {
[18:34:51] <MaxSem>	             $html = preg_replace( '#<(h[1-6])\b.*?<\s*/\s*\\1>#', '', $html );
[18:34:51] <MaxSem>	         }
[18:34:59] <MaxSem>	 hacky hack is hacky
[18:43:26] <MaxSem>	 mhm
[18:45:06] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Bug 48190: Avoid flash of unstyled content on diff view" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64358
[18:45:44] <MaxSem>	 jdlrobson, I'm working on addding stats
[18:48:39] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: stats for..?
[18:48:49] <MaxSem>	 sections usage in API
[18:49:01] <Maryana>	 jdlrobson, all this blog post really needs now is a snappy title
[18:49:03] <jdlrobson>	 good good good
[18:49:40] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: mmm Snap photos near you with Wikipedia's new Nearby feature ?
[18:49:45] <jdlrobson>	 has the word snap in it ...
[18:50:21] <Maryana>	 i guess that's better than how it's being talked about on the enwiki vpt… "Wikipedia is not Grindr"
[18:50:25] <Maryana>	 oh wikipedians.
[18:50:53] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: link?
[18:50:54] <MaxSem>	 oh shi...
[18:51:12] <Maryana>	 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vpt#Special:Nearby_lets_you_see_all_the_Wikipedia_articles_around_you
[18:51:24] <Maryana>	 it's ok. just the usual paranoia
[18:51:32] <Maryana>	 other people are excited about it :)
[18:51:33] <MaxSem>	 ApiParseExtender uses section transform for every page view that is not main page
[18:51:41] <MaxSem>	 s/page view/render/
[18:51:51] <Maryana>	 "Several articles within a couple of hundred metres needing pictures, if i can just work out how to upload them... :) "
[18:51:51] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: An option to display distances in miles would be nice. hehehe
[18:52:58] <Maryana>	 better yet, a pref in settings, and when you flip it, it gives you a toast that says "learn the metric system, lazy american!"
[18:53:00] <Maryana>	 ;)
[18:53:17] <MaxSem>	 Maryana, and does not switches to miles!
[18:53:27] <Maryana>	 >:)
[18:54:20] <jdlrobson>	 I love how people always get so paranoid about this sort of thing
[18:54:28] <jdlrobson>	 don't give browser permission if you don't like sharing where you are
[18:55:05] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: This is pretty cool. I noticed one curiosity in my results. Nearly all of the results were within 2.2 km, but the last entry was for Colorado College, which was correctly described as about 2235 km away ? lolz..
[18:55:28] <MaxSem>	 your coords?
[18:55:57] <jdlrobson>	 MaxSem: that was on village pump
[18:56:08] <jdlrobson>	 apparently an article had coordinates close by as well as coordinates miles away
[18:56:19] * jdlrobson  loves how user pages have 'translations'

[18:56:20] <MaxSem>	 grrrrrrrrrrrrr
[19:08:49] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Copy text tweak" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64359
[19:08:54] <jdlrobson>	 ^ Maryana feel free to merge this yourself :)
[19:09:30] * Maryana  is terrified of gerrit

[19:09:56] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: well just read the copy text and say yay or nay :)
[19:10:17] <Maryana>	 yay!
[19:10:30] <Maryana>	 :)
[19:11:13] <Maryana>	 btw jdlrobson, since the blog got hacked, matthew wants folks to draft stuff on meta & then he can run a script to merge it into the blog. so i moved it over to: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Drafts/Go_on_a_Wikipedia_scavenger_hunt_with_Wikipedia_Nearby#Go_on_a_Wikipedia_scavenger_hunt_with_Wikipedia_Nearby
[19:11:25] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: ok :)
[19:11:26] <Maryana>	 play with it as necessary
[19:12:11] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: I'd suggest the title "Scavenger hunt with Wikipedia Nearby"
[19:12:15] <jdlrobson>	 more catchy and tweetable
[19:12:22] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: MaxSem; "Add more profiling to mobile action=parse" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64360
[19:12:26] <jdlrobson>	 two Wikipedia's seem unncessary
[19:12:27] <Maryana>	 wfm
[19:12:29] <Maryana>	 true
[19:12:33] <MaxSem>	 jdlrobson, ^^
[19:12:46] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64359
[19:12:47] <MaxSem>	 after a couple of days in prod, it should be clear
[19:13:45] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64360
[19:38:57] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] montehurd opened pull request #69: Read-only categories and description for uploaded images (master...showCategory)  http://git.io/vNoA8A
[19:45:43] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] montehurd opened pull request #70: Disabled auto-correct on user name and password boxes (master...loginAutoCorrect)  http://git.io/cTKLeQ
[19:57:43] <tfinc>	 good to be back in the office where the wifi is dependable and the chairs are comfy
[19:58:33] <MaxSem>	 tfinc, was it fun?
[19:59:15] <brion>	 i caught a few sessions over youtube livestream, but let us know if there was anything cool we missed :D
[19:59:50] <tfinc>	 MaxSem: it was very productive for me to connect with google staff, follow up on tech like vp8, vp9, and webm, dive deeper into their design guidelines, and see them being obsessive (in a good way) about performance
[20:00:07] <tfinc>	 plus now i have a chrome book pixel which is a nice freebie
[20:00:21] <tfinc>	 no i just need to get git onto it
[20:00:41] <tfinc>	 brion: did you have to switch your pixel to dev mode in order to install git ?
[20:00:43] <MaxSem>	 at the google offices both wi-fi and chairs were quite good
[20:00:50] <brion>	 tfinc: yes
[20:01:04] <MaxSem>	 why don't they run all their conferences there?
[20:01:09] <brion>	 there's some set of dev tools you can install directly under the chromeos linux, or you can install a full ubuntu in a chroot
[20:01:35] <brion>	 oh -- and if you set dev mode by default there's no root password. so don't forget to set one ;)
[20:04:22] <jgonera>	 jdlrobson, remind me, did PLURAL work in JS?
[20:04:35] <jdlrobson>	 yes jgonera
[20:04:41] <jdlrobson>	 with jquery msg
[20:04:47] <jgonera>	 hm
[20:10:19] <tfinc>	 brion: not only is there no root bit i chrome os doesn't lock when waking back up
[20:10:25] <tfinc>	 you have to enable password on wakeup
[20:10:35] <brion>	 hah
[20:10:53] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Tweak the nearby preview" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64373
[20:15:22] <mhurd>	 brion: would there ever be spaces or anything else around "description" or "information"?
[20:15:37] <brion>	 mhurd: there could be, in both cases yes. trim for safety :D
[20:20:43] <jdlrobson>	 tfinc: i'm waiting on a parcel and have a bad feeling it's going to arrive during our 1-1.. :)
[20:21:38] <tfinc>	 jdlrobson: i just cancelled our 1:1 as i need to time to work on the app backlog for the next sprint
[20:21:50] <mhurd>	 brion: oops it's already trimmed - should be good to go
[20:22:07] <jgonera>	 Maryana, what should be the message for exiting the editor after introducing changes? "Do you really want to abandon your changes?"
[20:22:39] <Maryana>	 hmm
[20:23:10] <Maryana>	 yeah, that sounds good
[20:24:52] <Thehelpfulone>	 does anyone have an iPhone that can test a bug for me? https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sue_Gardner - open that in safari and try to expand one of the sections. The arrow changes direction for me, but the section itself doesn't expand :(
[20:25:33] <Maryana>	 thehelpfulone, sure, lemme check
[20:25:39] <Thehelpfulone>	 thanks Maryana
[20:26:25] <jdlrobson>	 tfinc: ok np - it arrived just now anyway ;-)
[20:26:39] <Maryana>	 thehelpfulone - hmm, it works fine for me
[20:26:42] <Maryana>	 on iphone 4
[20:26:46] <jdlrobson>	 Thehelpfulone: WFM - what are you using?
[20:26:55] <Thehelpfulone>	 iPhone 5, iOS 6.2
[20:27:11] <jdlrobson>	 Thehelpfulone: alpha?beta?stable?
[20:27:18] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Dr0ptp4kt; "Jdlrobson created 64350 to make another hook passing in template data." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63814
[20:27:25] <Thehelpfulone>	 beta I believe
[20:27:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Dr0ptp4kt; "Adding redirect query params to be used by MobileFrontend for footer." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63811
[20:27:40] <jdlrobson>	 if you turn off caching does it work?
[20:27:53] * jdlrobson  finally has a bed :)

[20:28:01] <Maryana>	 wfm in beta, too
[20:28:16] <jdlrobson>	 ahh Thehelpfulone i stand corrected - the latter sections do not open for me in beta
[20:28:16] <Thehelpfulone>	 if I go to the desktop version I'm logged in
[20:28:31] <Thehelpfulone>	 ah yeah sorry I should have said that
[20:28:43] <Thehelpfulone>	 I was trying to open the exit interview one
[20:28:46] <Maryana>	 oh, weird - yeah, the ones at the top work
[20:29:06] <jdlrobson>	 Thehelpfulone: it sounds like it might be this bug...
[20:29:08] <Maryana>	 everything below misuse of wikipedia logo doesn't
[20:29:08] <jdlrobson>	 me digs it out
[20:29:28] <jdlrobson>	 Thehelpfulone: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48540
[20:29:38] <jdlrobson>	 section toggling in beta is a bit funky outside the main namespace
[20:29:43] <jdlrobson>	 fix will be deployed next week
[20:29:53] <jdlrobson>	 for now i'd suggest leaving the beta :)
[20:30:24] * jdlrobson  needs to grab some lunch quickly

[20:30:28] <Thehelpfulone>	 ah thanks :)
[20:32:21] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Dr0ptp4kt; "Adding redirect query params to be used by MobileFrontend for footer." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63811
[20:38:37] <Maryana>	 jdlrobson, one thing i just realized: even though it's just beta, we should add the required legal text to the talk page add topic screen
[20:38:45] <Maryana>	 before we push out to beta
[20:39:05] <Maryana>	 just as long as it's somewhere on the screen where you can fill in your new topic, it's fine
[20:39:11] <Maryana>	 doesn't have to be pretty
[20:40:37] <Maryana>	 i added the text to the card. it's the same as what's on the upload screen, but with "text" instead of "photo," obviously :)
[20:41:15] <wikipedia-github>	 [android-commons] brion opened pull request #20: License summary (master...license-summary)  http://git.io/kskedw
[20:41:25] <wikipedia-github>	 [android-commons] brion pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/5H_i3Q
[20:41:25] <wikipedia-github>	 android-commons/master eac7fdb Brion Vibber: Briefly mention CC-BY-SA on the upload info page!
[20:41:25] <wikipedia-github>	 android-commons/master 5b761ea Brion Vibber: Open license page in browser when tapping on license line
[20:41:25] <wikipedia-github>	 android-commons/master 0f495b8 Brion Vibber: Merge pull request #20 from brion/license-summary...
[20:42:06] <tfinc>	 brion: mhurd: heads up about the backlog reviewing meeting @ 2
[20:42:41] <mhurd>	 tfinc: gotcha
[20:43:00] <brion>	 whee
[20:48:44] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: ok :)
[20:49:14] <Maryana>	 yay. don't want legal swinging the banhammer at us
[20:51:16] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Dr0ptp4kt; "Adding redirect query params to be used by MobileFrontend for footer." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63811
[20:52:10] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] montehurd opened pull request #71: Made upload progress bar use new fancy version (master...uploadProgressBar)  http://git.io/v5vz-g
[20:52:52] <mhurd>	 brion: pushed fancy upload progress bar
[20:53:54] <brion>	 \o/
[20:53:59] <brion>	 will poke it after mtg :D
[21:03:39] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Dr0ptp4kt; "Verified on apibeta by pulling in change 64350 to MobileFrontend first." [mediawiki/extensions/ZeroRatedMobileAccess] (master); V: 1 - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63811
[21:04:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Raimond Spekking; "Revert "Localisation updates from http://translatewiki.net."" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64430
[21:04:30] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Raimond Spekking; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64430
[21:04:57] <tfinc>	 mhurd: https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/document/d/1ej3IdEDCB9KwCUiLXJdJDs2NqBgSEzpWoUZqcvVIpUo/edit?usp=sharing
[21:07:54] <jgonera>	 Maryana, about �Error, changes not saved. Try again?�
[21:08:15] <jgonera>	 1) we can distinguish between types of error: conflict, page deleted, other
[21:08:26] <jgonera>	 should we provide three different messages?
[21:09:06] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Dr0ptp4kt; "Verified on apibeta." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master); V: 2 - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64350
[21:09:20] <jgonera>	 2) can we remove the "try again?" and just show the user the save button again?
[21:09:20] <Maryana>	 hrm. i think probably edit conflict should be distinguished between the other kinds of error, and those others can all just me lumped into one
[21:09:43] <jgonera>	 well, if page was deleted, then there's also no point in trying again
[21:09:58] <jgonera>	 (I guess)
[21:12:11] <Maryana>	 i really doubt the page deleted error will trigger very often or at all on mobile
[21:12:53] <Maryana>	 so we're taking the user back to the edit form with their changes still in it when they're an error, right?
[21:13:38] <jgonera>	 yes
[21:14:18] <Maryana>	 thinking...
[21:14:22] <jgonera>	 actually, we haven't talked about showing saving progress, but I assume I'll just show a spinner and a message where the cancel/save buttons were
[21:14:30] <jgonera>	 and on error I revert it back to buttons
[21:14:37] <Maryana>	 right
[21:15:00] <Maryana>	 new users won't understand what an edit conflict is, and exisiting users will assume that if there was an edit conflict, they have to go back twice to see their changes, like on desktop
[21:15:44] <jgonera>	 huh...
[21:15:54] <Maryana>	 with an edit conflict, though, we don't want to overwrite the last revision with the new revision, if that makes sense
[21:15:57] <Maryana>	 hrm
[21:15:57] <jgonera>	 anyway, suggesting that they should try again is pointless in my opinion
[21:16:06] <Maryana>	 yeah, that's what i'm thinking
[21:16:07] <jgonera>	 no, we don't
[21:19:20] <jgonera>	 ok, gonna eat late lunch, be back soon
[21:20:21] <Maryana>	 ok. will try to think more about this. but luckily we don't have to get it perfect right away :)
[21:47:49] <jgonera>	 Maryana, so I just show one kind of error now? or maybe conflict + general error?
[21:50:06] <Maryana>	 i'm still trying to think of the least-bad thing to do to people in an edit conflict
[21:51:02] <Maryana>	 i guess just take them back and say something like "another user has edited this page" - that works for existing users, at least
[21:51:17] <Maryana>	 new users will still be confused :-/
[21:57:12] <jgonera>	 well, I think that's the best option for now
[21:57:23] <jgonera>	 and as you said, it doesn't have to be perfect from the start
[21:58:25] <jgonera>	 oh, one more thing Maryana, instead of "Proceed to saving" and "Save" I did "Save" and when you tap it, it shows the legal stuff and "Save" becomes "Confirm", is that ok?
[21:58:49] <Maryana>	 sure, that works
[21:58:53] <Maryana>	 thanks, jgonera :)
[21:58:58] <jgonera>	 sure
[21:59:20] <Maryana>	 i'll have to find a wifi connection somewhere in ukraine to see this in action!
[21:59:27] <jgonera>	 ;)
[22:09:44] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/d2yDHA
[22:09:44] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 42eb8b1 Monte Hurd: Read-only categories and description for uploaded images...
[22:09:44] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 674ff38 Brion Vibber: Merge pull request #69 from montehurd/showCategory...
[22:14:03] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/NTTzhg
[22:14:03] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master a63ebac Monte Hurd: Made upload progress bar use new fancy version...
[22:14:03] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 75accd7 Brion Vibber: Merge pull request #71 from montehurd/uploadProgressBar...
[22:18:00] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/GXCmXQ
[22:18:00] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 64b072f Monte Hurd: Disabled auto-correct on user name and password boxes
[22:18:00] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master b9da80b Brion Vibber: Merge pull request #70 from montehurd/loginAutoCorrect...
[22:18:41] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vhY0DA
[22:18:41] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 5c12398 Brion Vibber: Bump version to 1.0.4
[22:25:42] <wikipedia-github>	 [Commons-iOS] brion pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0GZNsQ
[22:25:42] <wikipedia-github>	 Commons-iOS/master 469503b Brion Vibber: Adjust code signing defaults for beta builds.
[22:27:31] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Tweak the nearby preview" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64373
[22:27:31] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Story 484: Push nearby to stable" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64453
[22:29:09] <jdlrobson>	 is mingle down?
[22:30:26] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: JGonera; "Remove unnecessary CSS rule" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64454
[22:33:13] <brion>	 tfinc: test flight build is out
[22:35:21] <brion>	 heh jared already installed it on his iphone
[22:35:39] * brion  is watching

[22:35:59] * brion  sees all

[22:36:56] <Maryana>	 jdlrobson, matthew roth made some edits to the blog draft. take a look and see if you approve: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Drafts/Go_on_a_Wikipedia_scavenger_hunt_with_Wikipedia_Nearby
[22:38:55] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jdlrobson; "Actually - I'm rethinking this - MinervaTemplate should just be for rendering. All template variable..." [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) C: -1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64088
[22:39:43] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: looking
[22:40:22] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Jdlrobson; [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64454
[22:41:02] <tfinc>	 brion: nice
[22:41:47] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: is it just me or is this sentence a little weird? : " Along with the goal of bringing knowledge of your surrounding areas to you, we hope that this simple tool can attract new editors to these articles,"
[22:42:09] <Maryana>	 it's kinda wordy but it works
[22:42:27] <jdlrobson>	 For me it's the shift from personal you to the lesson personal 2nd part
[22:42:37] <jdlrobson>	  Along with the goal of bringing knowledge of your surrounding areas to /our existing readers/, we hope that this simple tool can attract new editors to these articles,
[22:42:38] <jdlrobson>	 wouldn
[22:42:39] <jdlrobson>	 t
[22:42:42] <jdlrobson>	 wouldn't that make more sense?
[22:42:51] <Maryana>	 oh, i see what you mean
[22:42:57] <Maryana>	 yeah, i think you're right
[22:43:16] <Maryana>	 though you'd have to change the "your surrounding areas" part, too
[22:44:31] <jdlrobson>	 Maryana: done - how does that read to you?
[22:45:09] <Maryana>	 nice
[22:58:09] <jgonera>	 Maryana, "Success! Your edit was saved." => "Success! Your changes were saved." ?
[22:58:43] <Maryana>	 i guess we should stick to what's on desktop
[22:59:01] <Maryana>	 e.g., edit was saved
[22:59:31] <Maryana>	 though thinking about it, i like "changes" more. we should consider changing that..
[22:59:54] <jgonera>	 oh, ok, I thought that it would be more consistent with "do you really want to abandon your changes"
[23:00:04] <jgonera>	 and "Error, changes not saved"
[23:01:14] <Maryana>	 ah, i see. then i guess if we're using edit in one place, we should use it in all the messages
[23:01:38] <jgonera>	 "abandon your edit" and "edit not saved" then?
[23:01:53] <Maryana>	 sure
[23:01:56] <jgonera>	 ok
[23:02:07] <Maryana>	 we can run some user tests on this to see what people think of the messages
[23:02:24] <Maryana>	 i'm asking stevenw why we went with edit for the desktop notification (this was back when i worked on e3, but i don't remember how we came to that copy)
[23:02:36] <jgonera>	 ok
[23:08:35] <tfinc>	 jgonera: jdlrobson: can i force the photo onboarding help text if i have uploaded images ?
[23:08:55] <jdlrobson>	 tfinc: you'll need an empty account
[23:09:11] <tfinc>	 so now way to force it on an account that has images
[23:09:26] <jgonera>	 it shows only for users that have less than 3 edits on wiki
[23:09:35] <jgonera>	 not without modifying code
[23:09:46] <tfinc>	 k
[23:50:46] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Kill unnecessary template variables" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64463
[23:50:47] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Drop Skin from names of templates" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64464
[23:50:47] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jdlrobson; "Add FIXMEs" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64465
[23:51:05] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Jdlrobson; "Yeh.. rethinking all of this now. (see https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64465)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64088
[23:51:12] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Jdlrobson; "Yeh.. rethinking all of this now. (see https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64465)" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64089
[23:51:27] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Jdlrobson; "See https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64463" [mediawiki/extensions/MobileFrontend] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64090