[06:42:26] Keegan, you are totally an italian [06:42:43] accept it! Don't deny it! Do you think there's something wrong with being an itwiki user? [06:43:04] I'm going to tell Erica and I think she'll be /very/ displeased with your enwiki bias :( [06:43:24] Ironholds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Keegan/December13-December14#keegan_twins [06:44:03] Keegan, I'm trying to come up with a twin-based pun on your name and failing, hard [06:44:14] I win sometimes [06:44:14] ("monozellgotic"?) [06:44:20] you win most of the time! [06:44:31] :P [06:44:33] Every day you wake up and get to be you for 24 solid hours. That's pretty neat. [06:44:46] As long as the sun rises in the east [06:44:54] I'll go out and check [06:46:19] You have to dig through the snow to the sun, no? [06:46:57] actually it's only snowed once in the last coupla weeks; most of it has melted. [06:47:15] Woohoo! [06:47:19] There was some brief snow (like, half an inch) yesterday, which was juuuust enough to cross us over the all-time record [06:47:29] Yeah I saw that bit [06:47:30] which led to https://twitter.com/marty_walsh/status/577257985304608768 [06:47:33] I was sad there is no parade :( [06:47:58] Well, you get St. Paddy's day there [06:48:19] that was Sunday! [06:48:23] I think? [06:48:24] yes [06:48:41] I'm clearly Irish [06:48:43] for the first time ever, the organisation which runs the parade (which is Catholic as hell) let LGBT groups march [06:49:05] this also meant it was the first time the mayor had marched in it, because he'd informed them that until LGBT people got to he sure as shit wasn't. [06:49:14] The pope said to be inclusive! [06:49:33] the pope says a lot of things and then does a lot of other, totally opposite things [06:49:45] But it's what the infallible says, not does [06:50:10] Anywho, does this stats meeting with you really need to be? [06:50:15] I thought it was clear in the email [06:50:19] "do as I say in a shiny hat, not as I do in a shiny hat"? [06:50:20] I'm optional, so I'm opting out [06:50:31] Depends on the shoes, really [06:50:57] I mean, if you plan on having data requests for me and you don't want me descending from heaven like some DATA-DRIVEN PERSONIFICATION OF NEMESIS to end you, you should attend to grok the best practices around data requests [06:51:05] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes god bless our project [06:51:07] if you don't plan on having data requests for me, yeah, you're safe [06:51:08] So to speak [06:51:14] Keegan, oh, you think that's a great article? [06:51:25] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell%27s_head [06:51:26] Nah, just that it exists. [06:51:30] we have a GA on Oliver Cromwell's head [06:51:34] someone wrote a GA on a head. [06:51:59] Frankly, I thought filing data requests should be as detailed as a bug report [06:52:04] But I'm clearly not in the know [06:52:15] (I've learned how to file bug reports) [06:52:33] they are! [06:52:41] but they're first cleared as one-liners in a google spreadsheet [06:52:49] Ah [06:52:58] Okay, so that's what was meant by time estimates? [06:53:29] Makes sense completely now [06:53:39] yup [06:54:25] Basically, your data request shouldn't be accompanied by [who?] [whom?] [dubious-discuss] etc. [06:55:22] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oliver_Cromwell%27s_head,_late_1700s.jpg what the... [06:56:03] Keegan, hahaha [06:56:20] and, it's a sketch of a dictator on a stick [06:56:25] I really don't see what's so shocking about this [06:56:40] don't you come from a state which had, like, intra-family feuds so bloody we have wikipedia articles on them? [06:56:57] It's not shocking, it's the fact that it's a sketch a hundred years after which [06:57:13] well, the head only got buried in 1960 [06:57:20] Americans done' thane the benefit of time, see [06:57:24] *don't [06:58:34] Anything older than fifty years is an amusing antique [06:58:45] Keegan, do me a favour? [06:58:52] I want you to go repeat that to Geoff. I could do with a laugh ;p [06:59:08] Sure, I will next time I see him [06:59:28] It's true. How else could [[American Pickers]] be a thing? [06:59:29] grand! [06:59:36] THIS OIL CAN IS 90 YEARS OLD [06:59:37] I do not know what this is [06:59:38] *clicks* [06:59:50] oh, one of those [06:59:55] I used to watch Storage Wars? [07:00:13] I did back in the day, saw a new episode recently. nothing has changed [07:00:18] Anyway, it's just how we are [07:00:55] also , at what point do I get to say "we Americans [do/don't do] [thing]?" [07:00:59] "This flashlight was made with 1,000 others in 1957. Amazeballs." [07:01:07] like, to I have to wait for citizenship, or is this like the presidential requirements clause? [07:01:09] I think ten years is a good start [07:01:39] You've a leg up with following football [07:02:34] One becomes an American upon citizenship [07:02:39] See you in 25 years! [07:02:56] harej: Unless you're a Hispanic immigrant [07:03:01] At which point you'll never be [07:03:06] ^sarcasm, for bots [07:03:07] hashtag racism [07:03:40] Ironholds: your enjoyment of firearms helps [07:05:23] Keegan, yay! [07:05:34] harej, actually it's looking more like 15 [07:05:49] "VictorBrice" 118 "frwiktionary" <~ good data [07:06:42] Keegan, also, I like ribs and beer. [07:06:54] ribs, beer, football, firearms, anachronistic weaponry, what else do I need? [07:07:02] ...to move further south [07:07:06] Virginia at the least [07:07:25] Oh, I'm trying to move to NC [07:07:28] virginia's a pinko state [07:07:33] move to mississippi [07:07:35] next year! (In Jerusalem (probably not in Jerusalem, that would defeat the purpose)) [07:07:50] I would but..actually I don't have an opinion on Mississippi. We missed New Orleans [07:07:53] we hit Memphis though. Never again. [07:07:54] harej: why, so his dollar is worth double but life is worth half? [07:08:03] it was all of my least favourite things; hot, sweaty, dusty and full of OTHER PEOPLE [07:08:04] Memphis sucks [07:08:08] new orleans is in louisiana [07:08:16] New Orleans smells [07:08:19] Terrible [07:08:49] Mississippi has startling few people, bad roads, and humid weather [07:09:13] and I should move there why? [07:09:19] and is the poorest state in the country, more poor than the district of columbia, which usually gets last place in these kinds of things when allowed to play with the states [07:09:21] You shouldn't. Harej said it [07:09:24] harej, what's in Mississippi? [07:09:33] i was saying an irony. you should avoid MS with your life [07:09:34] Casinos in Biloxi [07:09:38] HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG ON THEIR FLAG [07:09:41] NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE [07:09:46] ironholds is experiencing culture shock [07:09:52] NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE [07:10:04] there are multiple MS's you should avoid with your life. Mississippi. Microsoft. Multiple Sclerosis. [07:10:12] My dad's family settled down in [[Pascagoula, Mississippi]]. I went there twice a year for ten years as a child [07:10:24] harej, Missouri [07:10:29] Missouri is MO. [07:10:59] In the 1970s, the postal service did "single user login" if you will for the states, ensuring they had non-conflicting abbreviations. [07:11:22] * Keegan zips harej [07:11:29] bedtime. toodles. [07:11:37] Nebraska, originally NB, was threatened to become NB~usa until it settled on NE. [07:13:16] take care Keegan :) [07:13:24] harej, where else is NB? [07:13:45] New Brunswick [07:15:18] that's a canadastate [07:15:43] * Ironholds blinks [07:15:48] but they don't deliver to NB! [07:15:53] shit, half the time they don't deliver to MA! [07:19:40] * YuviPanda|zzz is booking tickets to move to SF [07:19:42] hi Ironholds [07:19:52] hey YuviPanda|zzz :) [07:19:55] move to Boston! [07:20:03] I shall visit at least once, sure! :) [07:20:12] Sucheta was telling me you can deal with snow now and I want to disprove the theory and then laugh at y- I mean, Boston is a lovely, lovely place. [07:20:25] I still haven’t seen snow yet. [07:20:31] I do deal with cold much better... [07:20:45] I might fly through London! [07:20:51] London is not cold, dude [07:20:51] I wonder if 2h layover time is enough... [07:21:00] you realise that Boston just broke its all-time snow record? [07:21:04] Ironholds: no, but Glasgow + the himalayas. [07:21:08] we got 109 inches of snow [07:21:11] 109. inches. of snow. [07:21:13] in a month and a half. [07:21:14] Ironholds: ah, I meant ‘much better than how I used to' [07:21:19] not ‘much better than snow’ :D [07:21:20] that is half a giraffe [07:21:23] or most of an elephant [07:21:32] giraffes are taller than elephants? [07:21:34] oh, duh. [07:22:27] ... [07:22:33] I'm just gonna let that sit there [07:23:52] Ironholds: I haven’t seen a giraffee in real life... [07:24:02] and neither have I seen a picture of a giraffee with an elephant [07:24:20] http://d3l2rivt3pqnj2.cloudfront.net/highres_images/easyart/2/0/200442.jpg boop [07:24:57] oh whelp [07:25:07] also jesus how did they manage that [07:25:14] photoshop? [07:28:44] no idea! [07:29:29] heh [08:00:56] oh, hey, YuviPanda|zzz , you might know this [08:01:08] where can I get my hands on logs in Varnish's default format? *Purses fingers* [08:01:28] aaaaaaaah [08:01:33] varnish doesn’t actually log to disk [08:01:41] just streeams? Bollocks [08:01:45] yup. [08:01:50] to be fair our varnishes are almost certainly not using the default format. Womp womp. [08:01:52] it puts them in a shared memory area [08:02:06] and then you have various other tools that read from that and output to various formats [08:02:17] varnishncsa outputs in ‘ncsa’ format, aka ‘apache’ format. [08:02:21] varnishkafka puts into kafka [08:02:22] etc [08:03:25] "apache" format - CLF? [08:04:40] cool! [08:04:46] I got bored and am writing a library for handling web data [08:08:40] Ironholds: ah, nice :) [08:08:51] Ironholds: should I save about 150$ in flight costs by adding one more stopover? [08:08:54] both CLFs and squid native format handled so far *nods* [08:09:01] YuviPanda|zzz, how much time does it add? [08:09:08] then work out if that amount of time is worth $150 [08:09:34] okay, back to trying to sleep for me [08:09:47] Ironholds: whelp. adds 10h [08:09:50] good point [08:09:52] not worth it [08:09:55] Ironholds: good night [08:10:06] still better than prtksxna’s flight [08:10:18] "trying" ;p [08:37:08] YuviPanda|zzz, you were on mobile [08:37:21] I was drunk at that time! [08:37:22] but go on :) [08:37:23] I was lying in bed editing with the app and I looked at it for the first time [08:37:30] because I'd never used the app before [08:37:52] and I have a PRESSING NEED to submit a patch to remove patronising idioms with a history of imperialist bullshit [08:38:06] please point me to where I'd go to patch the iOS and/or android UIs? [08:38:06] aaaahhhhhh [08:38:10] like, just the github repos [08:38:10] Ironholds: which ones? [08:38:25] I'll find the gerrit instances from there but I want search ;p [08:38:30] http://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-wikipedia and https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-ios-wikipedia [08:38:33] which bullshit idioms or which apps? [08:38:35] perfect; ta [08:39:14] found it! Thanks :) [08:40:13] YuviPanda|zzz, and do you know anything about the localisation setup? [08:40:23] a bit too much, sadly. [08:40:27] what’re you looking for [08:40:29] i.e. if I change a string in en, will translatewiki run along and fix the rest? [08:40:57] Ironholds: yup [08:41:22] augh [08:41:28] and gerrit has insecure ssh negotiation [08:41:38] * Ironholds grumblegrumbles [08:41:47] * Ironholds patches his ssh config to make it less secure [08:50:11] YuviPanda|zzz, where does the localised stuff for android live? [08:50:51] Ironholds: wikipedia/res/values/strings.xml [08:51:03] ta! [08:52:00] YuviPanda|zzz, and as someone with an android phone, could you load up the app and check a thing for me? :P [08:52:09] sure [08:52:32] the little submenu that has the privacy policy and the ToU and suchlike under it [08:52:34] what's it called? [08:53:16] Ironholds: I access it by tapping ‘More’ on the left sidebar. [08:53:19] Ironholds and then it is under ‘About' [08:53:24] ah, grand. Thanks! [08:53:36] * YuviPanda|zzz hates ‘More’ but has no energy to fight [08:54:05] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/197288 voila [08:55:10] who should I poke for CR, in that team? [08:55:27] Ironholds: I’m adding people on the patch [08:55:32] perfect :) [08:55:38] agree/disagree with my rationale? [08:55:47] +1, I thought they would have gotten rid of it but apparently not [08:56:02] it makes me sad [08:56:08] it makes me more sad that it doesn't surprise me [08:56:27] it makes me more more sad that frankly I'm just as well-intentioned-but-not-really-thinking-things-through a lot of the time [08:56:53] Ironholds: what do you think of programatically stripping text inside parens on the first paragraph? :) [08:57:24] what do you mean? [08:57:31] ...oh god they're not [08:57:35] :) [08:57:36] please tell me they're not [08:57:40] ...WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK [08:57:48] THAT'S NOT HOW LANGUAGE WORKS [08:58:05] Ironholds: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mobile-l/2015-March/008761.html [08:58:09] so let me get this straight. I can't interact with other users. If someone warns or blocks me, I can't see. If someone gives me positive feedback, I can't see. [08:58:14] first sentence, apparently. [08:58:48] I can't create articles or redirects, I've got no access to the VE, we're using a heart symbol to represent "save offline" [08:59:10] but heaven forfend that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 make sense when you try to read the lead section [08:59:40] not first paragraph, only first sentence. [09:00:04] the '''Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999' is an act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that..." [09:00:13] :) [09:01:02] bahahah [09:01:06] YuviPanda|zzz, so I looked up the article [09:01:10] "The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 (c 31) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that..." [09:01:13] my memory is just /that good/ [09:01:18] :D [09:01:21] and our articles on law, that formulaic [16:27:31] morning J-Mo :) [16:27:40] hi there Ironholds [16:27:47] how goes? [16:30:56] pretty good. conference has been fun/productive so far. and the Inspire campaign seems to be surviving without my constant, anxious hovering and fretting. [16:39:14] J-Mo, well, I mean, I've personally missed you [16:39:17] I can't speak for the campaign [16:40:16] thanks, Ironholds. Always nice to know you're missed. [16:51:03] I assume no standup today? [17:00:29] Ironholds: I was right. *Today* is St. Paddy's day [17:00:38] * Keegan wanders back into a meeting [17:00:49] Keegan, yes! But the parade was Sunday [17:01:09] Head on down to Southie. [17:57:18] a wild halfak appears! [18:01:27] dr0ptp4kt, around? [18:01:44] Ironholds: i'm not here [18:02:09] Ironholds: what's up? [18:02:39] dr0ptp4kt, hahah. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/197288/ - is the silence "it is a monday morning oh god why is anyone talking" or did I unwittingly set off Dramah? [18:04:46] Ironholds: it’s tuesday morning [18:05:09] wow [18:05:10] Ironholds: i don't think there's any drama, per se, but mind talking with Deskana on this instead? [18:05:14] that's exactly how bad my case of the mondays is [18:05:15] sure! [18:05:18] Ironholds: :) [18:05:19] Deskana, around? :) [18:06:04] Ironholds: Ah, yes. [18:06:24] yay! So, patch linked above; anything happening with it? I don't want to be the source of non-productive disquiet [18:06:35] (I've never patched mobile before and so don't know what the time-to-comment tends to be) [18:07:22] Ironholds: No, you just managed to pick an area that's very multidisciplinary and subjective! [18:08:57] gotcha! [18:09:01] Ironholds: I don't have any strong opinion, honestly. [18:09:50] Ironholds: I kind of like the way it is now, because it's kind of funny and your average user will never really get to that portion of the app anyway. [18:10:34] yes, but it's also a term with a lot of baggage. [18:19:23] harej! [18:19:28] holder [18:19:44] I've asked this a thousand times but what are the dates for the DC con? [18:20:03] they will be set in stone by mid-april but it will either be end of july or middle of october [18:22:25] that's a p.big range [18:22:30] anything I can do to push for july? ;p [18:23:40] it's not a range; they are two discrete options [18:23:51] okay! Anything I can do to push for July? [18:24:08] i'm the person you should be lobbying, yes [18:24:28] * Ironholds makes puppy-dog eyes [18:24:30] pwease? [18:24:33] I want the sunlight [18:24:39] I don't want to drive to DC in October [18:24:51] wait since when did you have a car [18:25:55] I don't, I'm getting Courcelles and Finnegan to reroute on account of I'm going as a work thing and so the gas gets covered by moi [18:27:19] we could do july if you could convince me it wouldn't force us to compete with wikimania [18:28:42] It would compete with Wikimania. Do October instead! [18:35:38] harej, wikimania sucks. Do July! [19:45:09] Ironholds: my latest thing is developing an engagement metric for wikiprojects [19:45:21] harej, ooh [19:45:33] essentially, i come up with a list of people making 10+ edits to pages in a project's scope, and people who make 4+ edits to pages in a project's space (the wikiproject page, talk page, subpages) [19:45:49] i call these measurements "10+" and "4+" respectively [19:45:59] the interesting number to me is the number of people who are 10+ but not 4+ [19:46:20] that, divided by the total number of people who are 10+, subtracted from 1, is the engagement rate. [19:46:38] WikiProject Cognitive Science has an engagement rate of exactly 0% [19:46:53] 134 making 10+ scope edits, 0 making 4+ project space edits. [19:48:03] why 10 and 4? [19:50:44] the period is one year; it's based on my earlier measurement of activity of making at least two edits to a project space in six months. two filters out random people who make announcements, i.e., people who haven't bothered to come back [19:50:51] and 2 * 2 = 4 [19:52:05] 10 edits to a project's scope is kind of arbitrary. It's to limit the population to those who are most definitely interested in a subject area and didn't just edit by hitting special:random [19:53:51] the nature of these analyses will change over time, but for now i'm adhering to some sort of standard criteria merely so i have some way to compare projects against each other [20:20:37] Deskana, anyway; on the patch, I'd argue that (regardless of other concerns) privacy is Important, to a lot of people, and we do a lot of work as an organisation to protect our users' privacy and give them control over it [20:21:07] we should avoid suggesting through the language we use that privacy is not important or worth evaluating or informing yourself about, because we, as an entity, think it is all of those things. [20:21:29] And sure, most users won't see it. But those who do should just get the information, not get told they probably don't care about the information [23:13:02] @seen halfak