[00:11:57] okay, I have a rudimentary ETL script partly working that pulls out Phab transaction data and builds a historical table [00:12:55] which can then be fed into some kind of visualization tool TBD. This may be throwaway work, but 1) I'm learning Phab guts, 2) it's going to give me a burnup chart for VE 2015Q3 probably by tomorrow [00:13:18] now taking suggestions for visualization tools. Fallback is OpenOffice spreadsheet pivot tables. [13:32:15] jaufrecht: that sounds cool really cool - is that code in a public repository by any chance? i'd love to take a look [13:37:30] jaufrecht: it mighit be worth chatting with folks in analytics about visualization tools, grace can probably point you to the right person [17:32:46] bd808: I think when I interviewed you asked if I could explain how to split big stories. Here is a page Joel found that has a bunch of great ideas for how to do it: http://www.agileforall.com/2012/01/new-story-splitting-resource/ [17:33:11] I wonder if I should hold "story splitting" office hours, helping people find ways to split stories that seem unsplittable [17:38:56] I'm all for that. I love to split stories. [18:01:21] jaufrecht: Can we chat about your sagas/epics processes? [18:01:38] here, IM, or a voice call this afternoon would work for me [18:13:35] are you in the office? how about afternoon? [18:13:50] oh, you meant here = IRC. [18:23:32] jaufrecht: right [18:23:43] I'm wfhome today [18:23:55] I'll schedule something and we can figure out the medium at that point [18:33:03] how about now instead of 1 pm? just hit a stopping point in coding [18:36:04] sure. give me a minute [18:37:06] video hangout? [18:39:08] yeah, heading to a room now [18:39:12] jaufrecht: ^ [18:39:20] ok [20:26:24] jaufrecht: First pass at the "other way" is done. Very curious to hear your reaction. Maybe I'll hear the shrieks of horror from here??? [20:46:30] started into it and paused to nail down Story, Epic, Saga [20:47:42] I think there is a very clear boundary between an Epic and a Story: a Story is small enough to actually do (and it should be INVEST). You can't actually do an Epic, you can only break it into Stories. [20:48:25] I don't see any clear boundaries between Epic and Saga, just that Saga is bigger, but there's a hint of a useful one in your definition: maybe a Saga is more likely to be cross-functional or otherwise extra-complicated. [20:55:47] jaufrecht: I agree with all of that, and have never actually used the saga terminology before [20:55:58] saga = bullet point in a high-level proposal [20:56:17] But I think stories and epics are cross-functional too [20:56:43] Story = delivers functionality to the user, which *usually* is cross-functional, although not always [20:57:23] It's the V in INVEST (Valuable) [20:59:02] Team-Practices: Mock up or design a query for forcing "Responsive vs long-term planned" evaluation - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99958#1304097 (JAufrecht) [20:59:52] yeah, that's true. okay, that doesn't work. but I like the bullet point thing. A saga is an epic so high-level that it's pure management-speak or brochure-ware? [21:04:48] I think that's a reasonable starting point, at least. A way for us to agree on what we're talking about [21:05:08] it would also be great to have 5-10 real-world examples of sagas, epics, stories, and engineering tasks [21:05:21] (stepping away) [21:14:07] awjr: which repository should it go into? It's not part of mediawiki; Phab, if anything. A jaufrecht (WMF) github account? [21:18:36] also, meeple27, on the meeting planning thing - what is there specific to WMF that we want to emphasize, as opposed to just good meeting practice in general? [21:32:47] jaufrecht: i was thinking it might get into a/v details, or wmf-specific norms (like preserving minutes in a wiki) [21:33:04] don't feel strongly...I just tend to claim narrow scope initially, and broaden if appropriate, rather than the other way around [21:33:22] the page title is also "run a mtg", which may be broader than the page is heading [22:54:55] ... was making pretty good progress doing the data conversion from Phabricator mySQL to a denormalized csv suitable for aggregating and reporting [22:55:07] and then ... Phabricator stores some relational data within JSON fields ... [22:55:17] * jaufrecht sighs [22:55:48] can a task belong to more than one column within one project? [23:01:58] jaufrecht: Nope. As far as I know, within the context of a project (workboard), each task can only be in a single column.